Calvin & Hobbes Mafia-Game Over!!!

[CoolBot]

New rule: We are now in the Rule Mirror Zone. Thus, if a rule says a certain group must do something, than that group doesn't have do it, but everybody else does.

I'm not sure if the Weirdos From Outer Space are even a anti-town group. Penciling seems to indicate the teacher and beaten up seem to indicate Moe. Maybe there was doc protection?

Also, this is mafia, so random

vote: God

[CoolBot]

Well, gee, my rule was just son I wouldn't have to type in pig latin or any of those other rediculas rules. After all, this is Calvin Ball; if you don't like a rule, just make a new one that counteracts it.

[CoolBot]

EnPace, how does modargo makes following the rules annoying? If anything, it let's us forget about the annoying rules. In fact, I was going to post pretty much the same rule.

I feel we're getting to caught up in the rules too much. Don't forget, our primary motivation is to catch scum. Gnome so far has posted two rules seemingly designed to protect scum without much in the way of explanation. I'd like one.

vote: Mr_Gnome_It_All

[CoolBot]

I don't really buy gnome's defense either. He hasn't really explained himself, except by using other people's words.

As for Calvinball, I've approached it as just a flavor element. Since any rule that helps one group over another can be interpeted as unfair, don't think I've gone wrong by doing so.

Here's my new rule: Anyone who has voted at the end of the day gets 15 points.

Of course, points don't really have any value to them...

[CoolBot]

God, are you telling us you're willing to ignore the fact that Gnome, in

three

seperate occasions, tried to either constrain the actions of the town to help scum or give scum powers to protect themselves? Whether or not the rules are illegal really doesn't matter since he still proposed them.

[CoolBot]

Well, we still have to decide on who UT targets if we follow Mordargo's plan. I'm not completly sure about Gnome's claim, so I think he might be a good target. The doc(s) can still choose to protect either one of them.

[CoolBot]

[quote="God"What the hell are you doing? Revealing that you're a cop out of the blue with no pressure on you? If we had some way to coordinate our docs I would hope one of them would protect UT and the other protect our claimed alien finder. Also, now that you are outed, who did you check last night? [/quote]
I'm note so sure Zone is claiming cop, just a role that knows about aliens. Nothing he said seems to indicate his abilities.

I think the disagreement comes down to how I prefer for confirmed innocents to survive, while God doesn't mind the mafia killing them.

Gnome is not confirmed by any stretch. Right now, the only way he can be confirmed is if Dad comes out, which I think most of us agree isn't a wise thing.

These are the roles that we know (in black) or somone has claimed (in red):

• Spaceman Spiff
  Calvin Clone
  
  Mom
  Hobbes

Further, Zone indicates the teachers have been turned into aliens. Keeping that in mind and looking at the list, a thought occurs. Except for Mom, all the roles have been prodcuts of Calvin's imagination. In the case of Hobbes the doll & the teachers, they have actually been "morphed" into imaginary characters. With this in mind, I think we should put Gnome's claim under some scutiny. Thus, we should have Gnome block UT, and UT target Gnome. Any doc out there should target anyone but Gnome.

[CoolBot]

I can see aliens replacing his teachers, but aliens replacing his parents? How silly.

I can remember a number of times when aliens in the comic strips turned out to be one of the parents, especially Mom. Aliens also were often the teachers or principal. I don't see how we can make a distinction between the two with the information we have at hand.

[CoolBot]

I for one think Gnome is very suspicous. Since we have a vigilante at our disposal, however, I think it's a good idea to have UT target him and us lynch someone else during the day. Then, on the off chance that Gnome is actually telling the truth, he can block UT and save himself. Meanwhile, we should look at who else is suspicous. Mordago, for protecting Gnome, definitly fits the bill, so I don't think EnPace is suspicous for going after him.

[CoolBot]

Personally, I felt that mordargo had the town's interests in mind more than God when we were making plans as to what to do with Mr Gnome it All.

Does this mean you won't target Gnome during the night? If that's the case, then I think it's in the town's best interest to lynch him.

Also, I'd like to request a vote count.

[CoolBot]

Well, you have a back up, Gnome, so killing you to get ride of your blocking power wouldn't help the mafia much. And the mafia have bigger fish to fry than a mason.

Since UT's targeting Gnome,

unvote: Mr_Gnome_It_All

I don't really like the EnPace wagon at this point. Gnome

has

been acting suspicous, and we have a plan to take that in account. It's not as bad an idea to look at who's protecting him as Breakdown is making it out to be.

Mordago doesn't look like a good target either, though. After Dutch is proven innocent or guilty, we can examine his defense of Gnome.

Right now, I'm suspicous of Gnome most and Korias next. Korias posting has been extremly sporadic. His most recent posts seem only to try to put the kibosh the plan we've worked out. What do you object more to, Korias: testing the Gnome's claim, or protecting the vig?

fos: korias555

[CoolBot]

I was suspicous of Korias before, and his advocation of a no lynch on day one just firms them up.

vote: korais666

[CoolBot]

korias, bottom of page 8,

Right now, I'm suspicous of Gnome most and Korias next. Korias posting has been extremly sporadic. His most recent posts seem only to try to put the kibosh the plan we've worked out. What do you object more to, Korias: testing the Gnome's claim, or protecting the vig?

fos: korias555

Interesting you ignored this question...

Your OMGUS vote fails to sway me; your claim sways me even less. You gave us no new information; we knew clones existed and Zone already told us the teachers were aliens. Further, I seem to remember the clones as a maleviolent group in the comics, or at least, they worked against Calvin.

[CoolBot]

Mathcam, in your role PM, did you get any sort of indication that the teacher's were aliens?

[CoolBot]

Anywho, I'm a calvin clone. The "information" in the role that has been argued so much (though I'm not sure why...) is right in the role description. Nothing special, just "The teachers are aliens!! Come help find the aliens!!" Of course, that was paraphrased, but I think it's close enough that the rest of the calvin clones know what I'm talking about.

Korias seems to know the alien information was in the Clone PM. Since mathcam confims this info was in the PM, I believe Korias.

unvote: korias666

[CoolBot]

Wow this day is getting long. Skimming over the day, Breakdown seems most likley to be scum. He tried to minimize the importance of looking at who has defended Gnome. Since Gnome is likely to be scum, it's not a bad idea to look at who's defending him.

MGIA dopesn't really have anything damning against him at this point, and if the night goes down as outlined he'll be that much closer to confirmed in my mind. Thus, EnPace's desire to get modargo killed because he's an ally of Gnome's reeks of scumminess.

It's slim, but as I said, this day is getting long, so

vote: Breakdown

[CoolBot]

Modrago, read what Breakdown is saying again. According to him, EnPace is suspicous of you because you are defending Gnome. That is terrible logic since Gnome has been behaving so scummy (note this does not mean Gnome actually is scummy; only that he appears so). Anyone willing to ignore scummy behavior is also behaving scummy. So, EnPace's logic is sound. This is why we're supposed to lynch him?

[CoolBot]

Why Leo? Breakdown is defending a probable ally of Gnome's, probable scum. BTW, the reason why I'm not voting for Mordago is on the off chance Gnome is actually telling the truth, Mordago is probably innocent.

To address ealier points against me:

Coolbot has been pushing whatever bandwagon comes, and is now trying to create his own.

Check again, I only voted four times on this day:

• Random vote on God - this was my first post of the game.
  You could say I jumped on the Gnome wagon, but afterall, he's probably scum
  korias666 - I was the who first voted him. Hardly jumping on a bandwagon
  Breakdown - Again, I was the first who voted him.

If you ask me, people who don't agree with this plan seem much more scummy than those who do.

Breakdown, are you implying I'm against the plan? Look back: I was one who advocated the present form while some wanted the form that doesn't target Gnome and others didn't like any plan. Why are you misrepresenting what I've done?

I'd like to address some of Leo's post, but he seems to have forgotten to put any...

The reason I voted Breakdown was it looked like the game was in danger of stagnating. So I threw something out there to stir things up. That it did. Breakdown still hasn't done anything to have me believe he's innocent, and no one looks more suspicous yet (though God is creeping up there. Oh, and Gnome does look more suspicous, but UT's taking care of that), so I haven't unvoted him yet.

[CoolBot]

Modargo, if, somehow, Gnome is innocent, I think that means you have a useful role to the town. I'd rather not go through the reasoning right now, but it's enough that I don't want to try to get you lynched until we've proven Gnome's guilt. Breakdown, on the other hand, has given no indication of being a role with an ability if he is pro-town. So it's a question of risking the role with an ability or the role that might have an ability. I picked to vote the later.

[CoolBot]

Wow, a lot of stuff since this afternoon.

Regarding a mafia roleblocker, I'm surprised no one seems to have taken this into account. For me, I considered it and felt the chances of there being one to be small. If there is one, I feel it would probably be with Gnome's mafia group, Mom & Dad; that would explain why Gnome is so blase about the plan.

Regarding UT's vig ability, I'm suddenly uncertain about it. After all, Hobbes may not be a pro-town player. In the comic strips, he's often working against Calvin in some way (e.g., pouncing Calvin when he comes in the door, sending fake Santa Clause letters to Calvin, etc.) Further, UT's sudden attitude change almost seems like a mafia who has gotten impatient with the town and wants to get the day over. Finally,

True, but a cop could always check him tonight instead of wasting my nightkill

is UT implying here he only has one (or at least limited) night kill? If so, this plan is a bad idea, and UT needs to let us know now.

Regarding God, assuming the mafia can't block roles or protect mafia members and assuming UT has multiple night kills, his plan is a sound one. His vote against Cam is suspicous, but his explanation is somewhat believable.

Regarding Breakdown, I'm going to downgrade to an FOS, because I want to UT to explain himself before the day ends.

unvote: Breakdown
FOS: Breakdown

[CoolBot]

UT, I don't disagree that Hobbes is often an ally of Calvin in the strips, but he isn't always, and I think it behooves the town to remember that. Further, a vig that can kill every night is a rare one. I'm certainly not advocating lynching you.

I'm not sure what to think about God. His plan is a good one, and he hasn't said anything I find anti-town, but his past few posts (save the immediatly previous one) have been quite aggressive. They're quite out of character for him, I think.

[CoolBot]

Well, even on the off-chance UT is a SK, it wouldn't be in his interest to go agaisnt the town. And I don't really think he's likely to be a SK; I just wanted the town to remember he's not confirmed yet. I'm beginning to wish I never brought it up.

[CoolBot]

UT, does that mean you aren't going to target Gnome. If that's the case, I think we'd better lynch Gnome. I, for one, think there's a pretty good chance that Mom & Dad might be evil. I would prefer to follow the plan, though.

And Korias, there are actually quite a few characters in C&H that never work against Calvin. They are Calvin's alter egos, Spaceman Spiff, Tracer Bullet, etc. Those role, along with Clavin himself, are the only ones I'm comfortable with ruling out as scum.

[CoolBot]

UT, have you not read anything I've been posting. I think Gnome is mafia, not some sort of mason, so I think it makes a lot of sense to lynch him.

[CoolBot]

UT, present a case for God's scumminess. I'd like to see it, because I don't really think you have one.

Gnome, give me a break. I never said the teachers weren't scum. But you may note we have at least two killing groups. I'm just trying to figure out what the other one might be. Right now, Mom & Dad are looking pretty likely. Your white washing of the second killer isn't exactly filling me with confidence about you.

Zone, for all of UT's recent nuttiness, he's most likely not scum.

[CoolBot]

Fact is, Scalebane, the appearance of a doc protecting UT is in the town's interest. If the mafia don't believe a doc will protect UT, they will target him, and the town loses it vig. Trying to make sure the town doesn't lose it's vig is not scum.

There are probably four to six scummy roles in the game, which means somewhere between 20% and 30% of the town are scum. Another 30% are probably clones. That means scum have a pretty good chance of not hitting a critical pro-town role at night

if

they don't know who has what role.

Of course, they do know UT is a vig, and the town is as certain of it as it possibly can be. So guess what? The mafia will target the vig, and the town loses. So, we want to broadcast to the mafia that the vig is protected. Is it really that hard to understand?

Frankly, your cavaliar attitude towards UT's fate surprises me. Do

you

think he's a SK?

2. He doesn't know the town win condition, or at least not really. I simply can't see how someone who doesn't recognize that the teachers are aliens and that the whole point of this game is to try to get rid of them could possibly claim to be pro-town. sorry.

You're going to have to explain this a little clearer. Nothing in the post you quoted indicates he doesn't know the town win condition. In my role PM, there certainly wasn't anything indicating teachers=aliens.

God has been overreacting badly, but I can't really blame him considering the way UT has been harping on him.

[CoolBot]

You're going to have to explain this a little clearer. Nothing in the post you quoted indicates he doesn't know the town win condition. In my role PM, there certainly wasn't anything indicating teachers=aliens.

Um the question is are you a calvin clone?

I thought the question on my clone-hood was answered a long time ago when I asked mathcam about the clone PM re: teachers & aliens.

No, I am not a clone.

[CoolBot]

EnPace, just because an arguement is coherent doesn't mean it's sound. Broadcasting the docs choice in this case was a good thing, else we'd probably lose our vig.

And I don't see why Mom & Dad can't be anti-town. Just because we only had two kills day 1 doesn't mean another one wasn't blocked, after all. Two mafia groups of two and a SK doesn't seem like that many in a town of 20, IMO.

[CoolBot]

Zone is rather unlikely to be mafia, as he was the first to point out the alien-teacher connection.

I think Gnome, Modargo, & Breakdown are the most supsicous in this game. Gnome & Modargo are almost certainly allied, so I think by testing one, we test the other. That, in my mind, leaves Breakdown as the best lynching candidate.

[CoolBot]

Oops, forgot I unvoted Breakdown.

vote: Breakdown

[CoolBot]

Breakdown, you attacked someone (EnPace) becasue he attacked Modargo. Modargo is likely an ally of Gnome, and really, Gnome is the scummiest player in the game right now. If UT didn't come out and we came up with this plan, Gnome, in all likelihood, would be lynched long before now.

Further, I never ranted that Hobbes was evil. I brought up the possiblity. UT broadsided me how it was unthinkable Hobbes is evil. Then, I point out that yes, he could be evil. Nothing I've said indicates I think Hobbes is probably evil, just that's it's a possiblity. I don't like making groundless assumptions like others in this game.

Also, just because there where only two kills doesn't mean there are only two killing groups. Off hand, I can think of three possiblities leading to one kill not being successful: 1) Doc protection, 2) Blocking the killer, or 3) Two killers targeting the same player.

Finally, I only advocate lynching Gnome in one scenario: if UT refuses to target Gnome. There is no reason to lynch him otherwise, as our vig will take care of him tonight.

[CoolBot]

Breakdown, I'm not voting you because I think you're in the same group as Gnome. You used crap logic and when I pointed it out to you, OMGUS voted me instead of addressing the points against you. Classic mafia tatics. Why don't you defend yourself instead of deflect attention away?

[CoolBot]

UT, you have not yet presented your case against God. If it's just the doc thing that Scalebane brought up, then I'd have to say you have nothing on him. If it's something else, then please explain with something more than "God is scum."

Breakdown, you voted EnPace because he attacked Modargo, who was acting suspicous. You are maintaing he and Gnome didn't

act

suspicous; there actual guilt really doesn't matter, as I believe I've mentioned before.

[CoolBot]

I just reread the thread. Breakdown still seems suspicous to me, but obviously the rest of the town doesn't agree with me. And he has defended himself, for what's it worth. So, I'll

unvote: Breakdown

I'm not completely convinced of his innocence, though, so I'm keeping my eye on him.

On my read through, I couldn't help but notice how often mathcam switched votes without much in the way of explaination. It's out of character for him, and I suspect he's trying to push whatever's available.

vote: mathcam

[CoolBot]

Well I tried reading Intrigue, but really, but after 3 or 4 pages, I gave up.

Anyway, a mafia putting in effort may jump wagons, too, so how are to tell the difference?

[CoolBot]

Oh, you're right. I think I may even have brought that up earlier.

[CoolBot]

unvote: Mathcam

I don't know where to go from here. God doesn't seem suspicous to me, and the only arguement against him doesn't really hold water. UT's acting very suspicous, but he's very likely to be what he says he is. Breakdown is suspicous, but no one agrees with me.

[CoolBot]

Says scum's ally.

I'm stuanchly against a no lynch. But I think, for all his weirdness, Zone is pro-town. And Gnome we're taking care of.

My last attempt to find someone suspicous went horribly wrong. Maybe I should go back to Breakdown...

[CoolBot]

I can get behind lynching a lurker

vote: shelper

[CoolBot]

i hardly feel im suspicious seeing as how im essentially a confirmed innocent

Let's not go overboard. You were the first to come out with the aliens/teacher connection. It's unlikely scum would do so, but it's not out of the realm of possiblty by any means.

Oh, and

unvote: shelper

[CoolBot]

Hmm, Zone is again trying to say he's a confirmed townie, rather than a likely one. I'm getting more suspicous of him, but I think we can wait on him.

The No Lynch wagon has grown alarmingly large. Voting for Gnome is pointless, and Korias is probably townie. Zone is also probably townie, but less so. Argoti, however, may be either, and seems to be happy keeping the pressure of the mafia.

vote: Argoti

[CoolBot]

Argoti, how else to you propose we beat the mafia? Wait for them to tell us who they are?

[CoolBot]

Who's Binky Betsy?

[CoolBot]

Then we're SOL. I agree that since Gnome has a back up, he shouldn't be the docs' highest priority. It seems Gnome's innocent, and by implication, Modargo, too. Though I am curious if UT received anything about being blocked.

[CoolBot]

So we have three role blockers? The Dinosaur and the parent masons? I don't buy it.

vote: Tigris