In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[themanhimself]

My damn god has yet to post. Can I switch religions?

[themanhimself]

HEY WAIT

Shouldn't the scumgod know his mortal scumpals' identity? Does that change anything?

How could Jack trick NS to 'fess scum??? Unless NS was very careless and not paying attention?

This is just more evidence that Jack is lying. One of them is scum, if it's NS then he would already know Jack was town and would never claim scum. If it's jack then I guess he assumed we wouldn't know that the scum know who the evil god is and vice versa so he could get away with it. The bottom line is that one of them is lying and Jack has better odds of being that liar. If we're wrong then we know who the scum god is which is totally worth it because we can get reads from him.
VOTE: Jack

[themanhimself]

But the scum god would know I wasn't scum.

Then why on earth would he claim to you like you said he did?

[themanhimself]

Yeah, that's logical

[themanhimself]

Pretty much the only thing we can do today is lynch Jack. I don't see anyway to move forward without resolving this glaring inconsistency and since we can't lynch NS we pretty much have to lynch Jack. Besides that, the way I'm seeing the situation, it's a lot more likely that Jack is the one lying, I can see motivation and a means for that at least where I can't with NS.

[themanhimself]

So maybe that was hyperbolic, but I can't see how we can have two people, one of whom *must* be lying and not do something about that today.

P-edit: Jack claims that NS claimed scum to him via PM and NS says that he didn't. One of them is lying. If Jack is scum he probably didn't realize that the town knew that the scum knew who the evil god is, so he figured he could make this insane gambit and have everything NS says discredited. If NS is scum and Jack is telling the truth, why on earth would NS have told Jack that? If NS was scum he would know that Jack wasn't so he would never confess. NS's story makes some sense and Jack's makes none. Jack is the only one of them with motive to do that.

[themanhimself]

Oh my god, now I

know

that Jack is lying. This is such a clear OMGUS accusation. And why the hell would the scum god tell you his scumbuddies so you can go lynch them? I'm worried Jack is a jester, but I've played with Jackscum before and he was absolutely terrible, so maybe it's just that again.

[themanhimself]

I strongly disagree with lynching Jack to "learn" about Nobody Special.

Don't get me wrong, I want to lynch Jack because he's obviously lying and obviously scum and for no other reason. It's a bonus that even on the off-chance we're wrong, we still get to know which god is scum.

[themanhimself]

So equinox, your whole case is that Jack's play is gambit for the town? What's the purpose of it? You said it worked so what did it do? If he is town then accusing a random player of being scummy and pushing it for seven pages all the while acting like he's lying is incredibly anti-town. If he's town then all we've gained is seven pages of speculation over a false dilemma. I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you here as well, the liar in this situation is going to be scum.

[themanhimself]

Jack did not accuse a random player of being scummy. That accusation seems pretty calculated to me, seeing as I (and presumably Lady Lambdadelta) got the same vibes he did about you at that particular point in time.

I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about NS. The fact that he went back and changed his story is even more suspicious. What I don't like is you giving him a way out now that we all know his strategy was terrible.

[themanhimself]

Jack did not accuse a random player of being scummy. That accusation seems pretty calculated to me, seeing as I (and presumably Lady Lambdadelta) got the same vibes he did about you at that particular point in time.

I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about NS. The fact that he went back and changed his story is even more suspicious. What I don't like is you giving him a way out now that we all know his strategy was terrible.

Jack is more than capable of getting out of his own gambits, I'm sure.

I'm

not

going to reference an on-going (regardless of the fact that he's dead in it) but the sheer will-power of that act is going to make my ears bleed. What I'm worried about is that it was a scum gambit he can't get out of and you're coming in to sway the popular opinion that it was alright to do what he did.

People, just consider the facts, either Jack or NS is lying, pretty much everyone agrees it's Jack, even equinox. How can we just let that slide because one player came in and said 'Oh, that's probably a town move'?

[themanhimself]

We are going to let that slide not because of me but because Jack's move helped town rather than hindered it. Look at the results; people are reacting to the gambit, and it's those reactions (or lack thereof) that are important. That's pro-town.

I'm done talking about Jack. If my previous arguments have not convinced you, then any further discussion with me on this subject is just going to be pointless bickering.

So talking about this subject is pro-town but we're not talking about it anymore? Are we really going to shut down this conversation because one player said to?

[themanhimself]

Scum

1. There is one immortal god who is Scum.
2. There are an unknown number of mortal high priests who are scum.
...
5. Scum have day chat through a QT.

There is a scum QT with daychat abilities.

it's not a certainty that the scum immortal knows who the scum are

Note: these are quoted in the order they were posted. Hito, what you said is obviously not true. There's no way Jack is telling the truth and if he's lying then how come he hasn't said it by now? And if he was lying then, how do we know he's not lying if he retracts it?

[themanhimself]

This limiting of his own, AND the towns vision to a tunnel can be classified as scummy.

I will not lynch Jack.

Why do I get suspicion for this and Equinox doesn't?

[themanhimself]

My main problem with the Equinox case is that doesn't really exist. He says Jack does a lot of gambits and so this is a gambit and he's not going to discuss it any further. If Jack does a lot of gambits, why couldn't this be a scum gambit? I've seen jackscum do a gambit before. And what's the evidence that it's a town gambit? The fact that it generated discussion? If it was a scum gambit it would have done the same thing, that's a textbook null-read. Something generating discussion has no bearing on it's intent, that seems obvious.

Simply put, there's no proof of Jack's intentions so we have to fall back on what we have.
A) He was lying, bad, bad sign and almost never pro-town.
B) The rule set-up makes that a dumb move for town
C) He changed his story later for no pro-town reason

This is all anti-town. Writing it off as a pro-town stunt because it might be is confirmation from lack of denial.

[themanhimself]

Equinox has expanded the towns horizons, where as you are continually trying to close them.

Well no one can deny that Jack has been scummy regardless of his motivations and actual alignment, so what's better, eliminating one of the scummiest players from discussion or focusing on him?

@DGB: Can't, ongoing game, even though he's dead. You can find it if you want to

[themanhimself]

TMH's insistence on lynching Jack is distur.....wait...did he just...OMG HE DID. HE ACCUSED JACK OF BEING A JESTER. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

VOTE: THEMANHIMSELF

I don't see the issue here. I've been a jester before and you pretty much just say the most ridiculous things you can which is what Jack has been doing. It's unlikely that this set-up uses a jester but what's the harm in suggesting it? And did I ever say he was a jester or that I even thought he was a jester? No, I said I was worried it was possible. And what's scummy about any of that? If he's a jester then obviously I wouldn't want to lynch him which is apparently how most people feel right now. That being said, I don't think he's a jester and I want to lynch the shit out of him.

[themanhimself]

I'm

not

going to reference an on-going (regardless of the fact that he's dead in it)

You just did. I know what you're thinking about, I'm in that game.

Uhhh.... no you're not. I even double-checked the player list

[themanhimself]

Hmm. This post reads to me as honest confusion... which makes

me

confused because themanhimself's record is big enough that he shouldn't be displaying this kind of newbtell (or the tunneling).

I need to think about this.

I took a four year absence and came back about two and a half months ago

[themanhimself]

All I know for certain is that he is lying. Which, in his unique case, is a nulltell.

So lynch all liars unless they lie a lot?

[themanhimself]

Was your scum-claim of NS and me a gambit?

[themanhimself]

Screamingly obvious what? Town, scum? I'm sorry, but I'll feel like I'm in the twilight zone if I'm the only who thinks that 'he's scummy because he lied' is more valid than 'he's town because he's crazy'

[themanhimself]

Also, you stated that you wanted to know if this was "all an elaborate gambit," and if it wasn't obvious before, it's pretty obvious now that his story was a gambit. Where do you stand?

How is that obvious at all? He still hasn't said word one about it since you brought up the gambit theory, he's trying to use you to make excuses for his play and you're letting him. That and how determined you are to shut down the conversation about this combine to some serious scumminess.

[themanhimself]

Hrm, now I'm thinking equinox is more confused town about the Jack situation which contrasts my earlier reads. I'm nowhere near ready to unvote Jack but I agree that LLD unovting Jack and going to me is a very, very weird move. I've seen scum pull that exact same move when they were bussing another scum and wanted to get off the bandwagon. If it looks like the LLD lynch is where we're gonna end up further into the day I

might

consider switching my vote only if I think it could help confirm Jack as scum. Forgive my single-mindedness but I've never had a read this solid.

[themanhimself]

Hrm, now I'm thinking equinox is more confused town about the Jack situation which contrasts my earlier reads. I'm nowhere near ready to unvote Jack but I agree that LLD unovting Jack and going to me is a very, very weird move. I've seen scum pull that exact same move when they were bussing another scum and wanted to get off the bandwagon.

If it looks like the LLD lynch is where we're gonna end up further into the day I

might

consider switching my vote only if I think it could help confirm Jack as scum.

Forgive my single-mindedness but I've never had a read this solid.

This is a perfect example of TMH trying to no distance himself from the Jack lynch. He doesn't want to appear like he's hopping off too fast, so instead he'll pretend that Jack is still a valid lynch today (pro tip: It isn't) and will stick with Jack until he sees a bigger wagon form on me, then vote me.

The bolded part reads as: "When LLD gets enough votes, I'll switch to her, and pretend it has something to do with Jack."


Do you see now why I switched my vote to him? He really is scumz. :S

It actually reads "I don't want to hold the town back with my single-mindedness, particularly when I think I could help advance the lynch of someone else I think is scum". The motivations for switching to you are incredibly obvious, the relationship between you and jack and me has been really weird. If lynching you helps reveal jack to be scum then I'll be for it, I just don't think it's quite there yet.

[themanhimself]

how he has now changed his entire stance, because Jack is no longer a easy lynch to get (by virtue of LAL).

Wait, what?! Are you kidding me? That's like accusing Bill O'Reilly of being too liberal, it's the entire wrong side of the spectrum. I've never let up on jack for a second and I've cast only one vote this whole game. I said I thought you were scummy as well but I never once said jack wasn't the scummiest person in the game. This is such a misrep it's basically propaganda.

[themanhimself]

Consistent town? You're kidding me right? Since when is consistently tunneling a player a town move? At best it's null. I see no benefit in a town player focusing on one player only. It limits their effectiveness and makes all their other reads biased. No town motivation in doing that.

Don't try and change the subject, your hilariously terribad misrep is what you need to be talking about now

[themanhimself]

how he has now changed his entire stance, because Jack is no longer a easy lynch to get (by virtue of LAL).

Consistent town? You're kidding me right? Since when is consistently tunneling a player a town move? At best it's null. I see no benefit in a town player focusing on one player only. It limits their effectiveness and makes all their other reads biased. No town motivation in doing that.

Note, these are in consecutive order which makes them all the more ridiculous. Which is it LLD? Am I tunneling on one player all the time with no one else in my focus or sliding off the jack wagon (lulz) as quickly as I can?

[themanhimself]

mod: will you take my quote out of my last post and just leave LLD's? I took her first quote from my earlier post and accidentally left the tag from that

[themanhimself]

TMH, you've done both. There is no contradiction.

Try again though.

See, you tunnelled jack when he was an easy lynch. And now that he's not, you're looking for a way out.

You've done both.

I have never, ever looked for a way out. Thats what you need to be addressing, when I've ever come close to unvoting jack. I once said I would change my vote for you if it seemed logical and that I wasn't even sure I would do that. You're misrepping me so hard I can't believe it's unintentional.

[themanhimself]

TMH, you've done both. There is no contradiction.

Try again though.

See, you tunnelled jack when he was an easy lynch. And now that he's not, you're looking for a way out.

You've done both.

I have never, ever looked for a way out. Thats what you need to be addressing, when I've ever come close to unvoting jack. I once said I would change my vote for you if it seemed logical and that I wasn't even sure I would do that. You're misrepping me so hard I can't believe it's unintentional.

stop fighting, unvote jack now and vote drk.

I've got two scum to focus on now, first Jack, then LLD, then maybe DRK after I re-read your case (I'll admit, I skimmed) or maybe not. We'll see.

[themanhimself]

Also, can I get some opinions on a potential Fishy-scum scenario?

Fishy is my god but I've had a gut-scum read on him since the very beginning.

[themanhimself]

I need fruit. You give no fruit.

In my head I hear this in an over-the-top greek/italian accent and it's hysterical

[themanhimself]

Lady lambdadelta: Don't say anything else until you answer this please, where did I ever look like I was trying to get off of the Jack bandwagon?

P-edit: Not really, and I'm not going to push that issue until I have something more solid, I just thought I would put that out there since someone commented on you.