DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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True dat.WHY DONT WE ALL CHOOSE NUKES AND NUKE TILL ALL SCUM ARE DEAD WHEN THE BELL TOLLS FOR THEE.
Double true.
IF I decide to go for the submarine AND I get it you can guarantee I'm not tellin no one. The bombs will be my only <3-
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I actually decided to read the pre-game madness in detail:
While I hate cops putting it here is silliness. SILLINESS. Especially when cop claims can be checked via sweet, sweet nuclear destruction.toog wrote:These aren't as necessary, but can still be a detriment in scum hands. The problem with these is the limited use Americans get from them:
-Fighter is ROLE COP, it would give them an easier time identifying key power roles.
-Espionage is essentially COP. If scum gets the role, then they can just look for the opposing faction members with it.
-Radar is like TRACKER, but Scum Night Kills are untrackable, so it's only use is to detect people with Offensive Troops.
-Fail Safe is similar to BOMB, and scum would rarely like to trade 1 for 1, but a kill is still a kill. Americans are more likely to lose two town members I would bet.
*explodes*chess wrote:I think we should leave Espeonage for the scum.
Percy uses good words.
See, you said you liked the Quan so I thought we'd be bro's.Jed wrote:That won't stop the rope tho. Its called Mafia and if you refuse to have the town guide ur vig, then u r one.
BUT NO. Then you come in with this madness.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Why give the scum a cop?
There's 1 copy of each role and cop, as much as I hate it, is a doozy.
If one manages to be good(TM) and say, ohh, hold their load until they have even 3 investigations (hint: investigating targets that aren't high priority NK material is tech) and then come out with them is a tide turner.-
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ARGH HULK SMASH
I'm fully aware of how it works. Even limited information (that sure as hell has the chance to become total information) is a good thing. A real good thing.
Especially once bodies start hitting the floor.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Thank you Jack.
If we jibber jabber HERE long enough maybe we can turn on the cruise control for murderland to get them filthy numbers to Defcon 1 as fast as possible.
And then let there be chaos.
CHAOS-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I can't believe I'm having to argue thisssssssss. GOD
Yes, a bevy of investigations is more powerful late game.
That can't happen unless WE HAVE THE COP TO GET THERE.
Jesus if the cop forces one good lynch or stops one key bad lynch its worth it.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I'm not GOING los copos.
I'm just beating my head against the idea that its not worth getting.
I mean just think of the beautiful world where a cop comes out with a couple innocents and WE NUKE EVERYONE ELSE.
RED DAWN-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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"Getting useful roles" > "Stopping scum from BP/RB"
We may have to have real words this game. REAL ONES
FATTE HOW DARE YOU PREVIEW EDIT ME
I WILL TALK TO YOU MORE IN OUR CHAT MR-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Que?We can agree to disagree I suppose. Coming from a VT standpoint, I would much rather use my intuition than rely/hope for scum scans. If we get a condemning scan, cool beans, but gut and intuition rules my game play a bit more. I always assume worst case scenario that town is fudged and we either have no power or VIs have our best powers.
I am not saying turn on blinders and hope that the almighty cop saves us.
I'm saying that the cop is an excellent tool and if the choice is "try for cop" or "get a bp" ONE OF THOSE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER.-
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No.unkillable/untargetable/roleblocker/whatever.
BP is not "unkillable". Ropes and crosskills work just fine. And, sure enough, if a launch goes they get to announce it and, as scum, paint a big ol target on themselves from the other group.
I never mentioned untargetable because that IS bad, in comparison to the others.
Roleblocker still gets the fun joy of hypothetically outing itself. Or stopping A PR in this setup with a million nukes.
This isn't a "welp, opinion" kind of discussion I'm having right now. The more I look at your list the more paranoid I actually get. Especially when I look at your rationales.-
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(Next time I see the word probability in relation to whats going on I may have to put them on the "gets nuked fast" list)
(Don't fight silly with silly. It makes hulk smash)-
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HEY NOW LETS BE FAIR NO LISTENING MAKES JACK A DULL BOY
HAHAHAH@ everyone, and chess especially
It takes a long period of experience with Fate to understand when he's being serious, and when he's just messing around. If I were you, I would really just ignore him, and that's actually what I really do most of the time. When it's impossible to tell what he means, what else can you do? So that explains why he hates me so much and wants to jump all over everything I say. The mad dog will most likely be put down in good time.
Welp, lets dance. When votin time a comes I will summon los ropos.
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Me? I've already put in my picks.
I'm not worried about me. Doing that dance scum go "ohh, if even the majority follow this we can neuter the cop and tracker? nice. Don't get all crazy though and be sure nukes are up there because those are pretty nice too."
Lets just say I'm not willing to vote you, yet. HOWEVER, D3 may be a different kinda song.-
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I like how that your sentiment really shows through starting with "bipartisan" and going right to :giantsmugulon:
See, I'll make it real simple. I trust myself right now to take a shot.
As time progresses, maybe I'll take some input from a few others. Input. Never the
What I wont do, now, or ever, is let my shot be guided by a load of miscreants.
Or, to put it differently:
The will of the people produces backwards lists. That go into a bureaucratic mess where 6 of the voices sure as hell want to gerrymander anything useful.
The WRATH OF THE BLOOD GOD produces bodies.
I know what team I'm on, every time.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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The hell did nukes have to do with last games D1 and D2?VV wrote:How do you suppose we avoid the clusterfuck that was last game's D1 & D2 if everyone's going "I TRUST NO ONE BUT MY OWN NUKE". Besides, that's really not the argument. You're probably misinterpreting things.
The argument is more like 'If you're collectively found to be scummy, your nuke is our command.' or 'Only protown people should be allowed to nuke.'. What I'm getting from your side is 'ALLOW EVERYONE TO NUKE WHOEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT.' which is definitely bad.
I think that, as the game progresses, the Townier people w/ nukes will be allowed to shoot people they want anyway since nukes are definitely something we want to take advantage of.
And, 'If you're collectively found to be scummy,your nuke is our commandyou are dead. Write up your will, because you done be seein fishes'.
And this logical jump from 'My gun IS my gun' to 'They're gonna done kill e'ryone and there is no way to hold them accountable OHH NO' is something else. My hypothetical shots, just like any other, will have to be backed up.
No the other teams, of course.BS wrote: Your own?
Seriously what the hell is this.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Even VL/A isn't enough for me to stop from checking in here and Fate I NEED YOU while I'm gone to keep the machine afloat with Socio who has ALSO decided to be awesome this game.
I mean, waiting until D3? Psh. I've got bidnesses out of the wazoo.
VV I like, Gan I actually like, the SCREAMING DEATH CLAN I like, AV I like, IS I like.
Dana is for dead. Jed is trying real hard for dead. Toog is for dead now (and I'm a little surprised no one else has seen it but YOU DONT GET IT TILL I AM AT HOME WITH A REAL COMPUTERS).
And the lurkers? Purged by fire. Especially now.
I've got some secret hints and tricks TM (mind you, nothing super secret awesome but useful enough) for after day starts.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Word.
Additionally, and I'll probably get into this more in the later times, I'm firmly of the opinion few things are as scary for scum as uncontrolled nukes. Because nothing is as fun as trying to look town AND not raise enough ire in the process to get a bomb dropped all up ins.-
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Ohh panda-chan.
I still dont have a real computer so you can still wait. Maybe someone else will see it but if not, hey.
And it has nothing to do with reading -you-. It has everything to do with committing a murderable sin.
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And lets play a little game Jed:
Which one of these scenarios is a 'town controlled nuke':
1.) PLAYER nukes his gut scum read.
2.) PLAYER says he has a nuke, has feelings time, and after the consensus is decided upon 2 weeks later nukes said target.
Also I apparently don't know how wagons work. Its awesome.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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A combination of phone and my wifes laptop which is not my beautiful machines.
And I would be surprised if you're that much older than me if at all.
On a more pertinent note the simple fact jed opted for the choice that involves everyone as more town controlled than the other is that tipping point between stubborn town and obstinate scum.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Hmm, 5 years isn't enough for sensai. Sempai?
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Anywho, lets cut to the chase because this is done now.
I'm good at this game. Not great, not hall of fame (yet) but good.
If I WAS scum this game, you know what would scare me shitless?
Not getting lynched. Psh.
Not even cross-kills.
It's the uncontrolled nukes. Note, not the 'town' nukes. Those turn into the 'getting lynched' business. What would make me nervous ALL GAME would be the fear at any point someone would go 'this is gut' and launch a nuke.
Because that can't be controlled.
So, what would I do as scum here? Just this. Control as much as possible (note: this is also part of the problem with "THE LIST" but I'll get there later).
The bureaucracy would catch bad scum or scum that make a mistake. But those ones die regardless. The 'OMG CHAOS' nukes kill the good ones.
Now, as for why you're scum and not just bullheaded town? The simple fact you just kept on keeping on when I asked the question I asked. The answer, even if you were bullheaded would be some line of "Well, #1 BUT...." not "#2 ALL THE WAY".
But, even THAT alone wouldn't do it.
This does it:
All that talk about VI's and the right way and 'pro-town wait for wagons' and being a martyr just jumped out as soon as it was clear no one was drinking the juice.OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.
In fact, no single statement could illustrate how much dissonance was involved in your whole line of thought because this IS "If you dont see what I see I'm nuking regardless".
Dana may get to see D2. Because come defcon 3 this is done.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Additionally I'll say it very clearly:
Dana & Jed if you ARE town you'll go ahead and not waste your picks on anything but silos.
Because, you're dead. It is just waiting for it to happen.
AND GOOD TO SEE MY FELLOW BLOOD SQUADRON ALPHA OUT AND ABOUT.
(And I still have a case I'm GOING to do on toog when I have my comptuerdeathboxes 2000 because it requires some effort)-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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HAHAHAH
I guess to be fair you could be pushing a policy lynch BUT even that that doesn't make sense
AND TO THINK YOU ALMOST DIDNT PLAY UNTIL Dcon3
And what the hell is this last post by toog even mean?-
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Pretty much that.
It's not a function of fate reading the quote.
Its a function of your response to him asking why you were defending dana having NOTHING to do with that being a quote and the "anyone can be scum!"
Or, at least that is what Fate is clearly going on about.
Like I said MY issue is something different entirely.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Yea, I do. I've even posted about a chunk of them. I think it'd be more than a one up.Toog wrote:I have about 14 Neutral reads in this game right now, 2 reads I think are scum, and 3 reads I think are town. Anyone want to one up me and say that they have more reads than that?
Ahh, yes, the unified scum theory. Well played.Jed wrote:I can't help the fact that the town doesn't want to pursue the best course of action even though they should; I can only accept that they won't. Just because you "knew it all along" because its your world view doesn't lessen the value of the best course.
The scum want your worldview to prevail, why do you think its so popular? Its because you have full scum support buddy. So don't give yourself too much credit.
BAD scum may want my worldview to prevail. But, hey, thats ok because they also get roped.
And, this is pretty sweet skating from the simple fact you went from "THIS IS THE TOWNIEST TOWN TOWN WAY TO PLAY" to "I AM NUKING GANDALF AS SOON AS I CAN"
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And JED AND TOOG TALKIN ABOUT PERCY? OHH SNAP.
See, funny thing is Percy and I can have totally different viewpoints on what the right path is but that doesn't change him bein town.
(and you two being scum but I digress).
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Psh. You are right but that still had nothing to do with nukes. Only one thing can stop madness like that. Not drinking the bad water.VV wrote: D1 and D2 last game were megaclusterfucks. D1 was a good lynch gone horribly wrong with Els flipping doc. D2 was HORRIBLE due Andriusgate. That was one of the worst days I have ever lived through with 3 Town PRs outing themselves. @.@. Things were way too chaotic last game due to people believing in their own results a little too much. See why I'm trying to get some order around here?
Hell, nukes may have HELPED it.
Well, see, we keep coming back to this weird issue from the 'law'.VV wrote:Yes, and no. UNCONTROLLED GUT nukes might also kill protown people playing a good game. Scare scum shitless? Sure! Might hit awesome Townies doing a good job leading Town? Yeah.
I have thought of a better compromise though, through RedC's quote above. See if you agree Spy.
Early game, when isn't much danger. Some freedom with the nukes might be awesome. Might get some good gut shots etc. However once it starts getting close to LyLo... THEN we start upholding Martial Law. No idiots risking Town loss by killing people who could be important. Should work like real wartime, eh?
Not being a second "lynch" != no accountability.
Early game if someone throws a nuke at me and gets 4 or 5 people going BAD IDEA and persists, welp, they gotta go.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/posting.php? ... =3&t=15795
"OHH NOES THEY MIGHT BE TOWNS THOUGH"
And? If someone is that bull-stubborn they've gotta go and its better than wasting a damn lynch on it.
As it sits, if I could, I'd throw a nuke at Jed. Would that -really- mean that if he was town someone would throw a nuke back and then this secret madness world you guys keep talkin about? Probably not.
If it did? Welp, QQ because it would have been a loss anyways.
(And, yea, I didn't even think that "throwing nukes around at lylo unless its the ultra-gamble is a REAL BAD IDEA" even needed to be talked about - as its right up there with "dont vote at lylo sillynannies")
I'll repeat this because it is important:
Accountability != consensus != accountability.
Every post sets up accountability. If I were to nuke Fate right now I'd get killed for it. As I SHOULD.
If I were to nuke Jed right now it shouldn't be much of a surprise (and, unlike Kit's business DONT BE SILLY and go "Ohh, Jed-scum means SpyreX-town" because you KNOW I'd throw this down if I was the other scums. I'm town because I'm town and awesome.)-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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This is the wife's tiny buttons which are stronger and more braver than the phone's tiny buttons BUT STILL.
His case requires a LOT of quotes and words on my part. Because there is:
Thetieredlist which is followed up not long after with "silos should be the lowest pick for all americans" (and, of course, the nature of that list).
Coming out pro-nuke but then referring to the 'rebels'.
The QUOTED "scum-hunting" business (I REALLY need to look in detail what is going on around there because my gut says that is a snipe at people wanting dana dead which would be HOO NELLY)
The slipperiest of slopes with (while bad) the 'lawyers' going "A NUKES B NUKES C" to "Lets control ALL THE PRS"
And, of course, COP-GATE. Which the more I think about it makes me itchy all over.
And this is all before Fate-dancing time which is its own ball of wax and now the multiple "I've got reads I promise yo".
AND this doesn't include the thing that gave me the pure death: the dissonance in his list 'denying the scum toys' and later 'scum aren't going to want to deny us toys'.
(This should serve as a good set of notes for myself too)-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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And I do agree with you to some degree that the 'role' part of it is a little greasy but he IS actually saying things that lay out enough that I'm <3 with him for now RC.
And you and your qualifiers. FFFF-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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"I'm willing to be a MARTYR FOR MY CAUSE"
"Ohh yea I'm gonna take me a copper on the way down, USA USA"
Also, I'm out but another fun game would be to see how many posts dana has AND of those posts how many times Fate is mentioned.
By fun I mean for killing.-
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I'm on fate's meat SO HARD it warped the space time continuum and made my first issues with you happen before he started the rage (TM) on you.
True story.
Also, it is that special kind of fun to watch "The default is being awesome. You dont want to BE AWESOME DO YOU??"
Although there is a quasi valid point on team gonna get lynched right fast if you are town (you're not): there ARE a few acceptable things besides silo. Fail Safe, Fallout Shelter and Air Base would be ok.
But, when one of you (hint: Jed) goes "SEE LOOK IMMA COP MARTYR" if you are actually town then you've just failed twice. Well done.-
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It will take a bit of time to calculate the results, so expect the deployment PMs to be distributed and DEFCON 3 to begin late Tuesday night (EST).
So still over 24 damnable hours.
Then speedlynches.
Then fun dancing time.-
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As long as I am that other person (hint: I am a drinking bird on the kill button) sure.
Or I'm just joshin and really this works out in the post-launch just fine. Because, really, if EVERYONE yells at your launch maybe you done screwed the dog and need to retract the killshot.-
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FATE PLEASE I NEED THIS
Unvote, Vote: Jed
THE OTHER CAN HAPPEN TOMORROW
You mean me as "certain players"There have actually been a couple of suggestions from certain players about this as well -- that people should choose fallout shelter or nuke etc.
and "people" as you and dana.
Because, you're dead.
And, IF IF IF you were town going down with something useful in your hands isn't helpful.
Additionally, chess stumbled a bit onto a line of thinking I had kinda - until I'm confident pr's that can screw with the lynch are in good hands at D1 I'd like to see a nuke launched at the lynch target.
Not double nukes off the bat because that is silly but.-
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Damnit man, DAMNIT.
Jed went from I am a martyr for the cause of the holy and just town controlled nukes to I'm nukin gan first chance I get.
All of it was a mystical story.
AND I MADE THIS CLEAR.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Let er' ride but don't get too crazy.
I want speedlynches.
YEA, I said it.
And on that glorious day I can lay out the other ones that need to go.
(P.S. you have no idea how hard it was to fight being lazy and just push toog BUT Jed is my call)-
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Yea.His response wrote:Based on the reality which is now present with those in question declaring themselves, I have to agree with the analysis that nukes will be flying but I never bought the idea that it was impossible until now.
I can't help the fact that the town doesn't want to pursue the best course of action even though they should; I can only accept that they won't. Just because you "knew it all along" because its your world view doesn't lessen the value of the best course.
The scum want your worldview to prevail, why do you think its so popular? Its because you have full scum support buddy. So don't give yourself too much credit.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Sarcasm man sarcasm.Then Spyrex goes along with it all Herpaderp?
I.E. Jed's list is as useful as he is town.
GOD IF I SUPPORT DANA TODAY CAN I COUNT ON YOU BASTIONS OF AWESOME TOMORROW-
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Or turn of phrase. Ya know.
Considering I've been hammering on Jed for his 180 for a while now.
But, I've got time so:
So, this is the "Under the Radar Lurkers". (and these numbers will be slightly off due to posting after this but hey):Utr Lurkers
Bobsnox
Sociopath
Jack
Bunny
Internet Stranger
Bob - 7 posts
Sociopath - 13 posts
Jack - 22 posts
Bunnylover - 12 posts
Internet Stranger - 35 posts
Now, lets compare that against the whole:
AV - 15 posts
Baby Spice - 8 posts
Chesskid - 66 posts
Dana - 11 posts
Faraday - 22 posts
Fate - 83 posts
Gandalf - 38 posts
Jed - 155 posts
Kat - 18 posts
Kit - 22 posts
Percy - 10 posts
RedCoyote - 12 posts
SpyreX - 51 posts
Toogeloo - 95 posts
VasudeVa - 12 posts
(On the plus side, doing this showed Baby Spice is 'playing' and can go on the short list)
So, the 6th highest poster in the game is lurking.
"Ohh, but I meant UNDER THE RADAR"
If I've got to go redelve how many different people have mentioned IS's name in relation to his shtick I'll be a sad panda, but lets just go ahead and say its not 'under' any form of radar.
"Ohh, I meant ACTIVE lurking"
BWHAHAHA. No.
That list is junk. Moreso, it comes after votes can finally come out and the original issue has never, ever been addressed.
And did you really go "He's got 150 posts sooo".
Because, go look at them. Real close. Cut the raw white noise. Then get to the meat of it which is "Vigs HAVE to be controlled by town."
Then watch that 180 on gan and get back to me.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I am saying that list is arbitrary and not actually a list with any real value or meaning.
Further, I am saying this is true because Jed is scum.
Jed is not scum because of the list. Jed is scum, again, because of the 180. He threw in all his dice on the vig's and when that didn't float it became abundantly clear his 150+ posts were NOT actually a stance he cared about.
Additionally, while I think IS is town he is serving as anexampleof why said list is arbitrary. Much like how the K's not being there again showcases how it is arbitrary.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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So, you're basing this off the 'list' and not anything else, because as you said you hadn't been keeping up?Jack wrote:I want dana lynched and then spyrex. Toog and bunny are next on my list but I would have to do some more work reading them.
Woooosh.
I don't think the "IMMA NUKE HIM" is a bus maneuver.Chess wrote:but if jed is scum, he's scum _with_ gandalf, right?-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Gandalf, specifically, has nothing to do with it.@Spyrex: isnt' Jed scum partly because of a 180 on gandalf?
Its the fact he went from "Scum++ want nukes that aren't controlled by 'the town' and I am willing to be a martyr for this cause" to:Jed wrote:OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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No. He went from this is so important I'm willing to die for it to IM NUKIN WHAT UP.This is nonsense. He got pissed when people weren't going to follow the plan he cared about and said "well **** you then". That's evidence that he DID care.
AND SAYING INTERNET STRANGER IS A LURKER OR "UNDER THE RADAR" IS ABSOLUTE NONSENSE WHICH EVEN A PRETEND REVIEW WOULD SHOW.Personal isn't arbitrary. When I call people out it's because something they did struck me, not because I did an exhaustive review. THIS HAPPENS IN LIKE EVERY LURKER CALL OUT EVER
WHICH KIND OF IS MY POINT WITH THE LIST WHICH IS STILL SECONDARY TO THE OTHER PART.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Its right where it is. Only one rope man. I've been pretty clear that dana needs to go (and dana has made that apparent) and I think both Jed AND toog are scum with Jed a bit more sure.Fate wrote:SPYREX WHERE THE FUCK DID YOUR TOOG SCUM READ GO AND WHY AREN'T YOU POSTING AWESOME THINGS.
DONT GET MY PARANOIA DAR ALL CRAZY AGAIN
If there was nukin' dance parties right now they'd all be burning alive.
ITS ALL WIFOM means nothing.toog wrote: i.e. Who would believe me if I said that Espionage was my top pick town role?
Lets say everything you said (especially arguing the value of cop) was just to cover your own pick. That this was some 'mastermind' plan to get people who might pay attention to not pick cop (thus lessening the number of players attempting to pick the role good job).
Well, at defcon 3 going "MAYBE I AM A COP" just wasted all of it and you can die soon, tia.