The Lord of the Rings Mafia - GAME OVER (KABOOM)

[Mariyta]

I've read the trilogy a couple times, as well as The Hobbit. Tried reading Silmarillion, but didn't finish. Read a couple of the Lost Tales. Movies are awesome, despite the casting of Liv Tyler. I <3 Eomer.

VOTE: Glork Hi Glork!

[Mariyta]

1. Books are almost always better than the movies, though the movies are fantastic in their own right.
2. Return of the King
3. Return of the King
4. Eomer, in both the books and the movies. I also adore Eowyn and Faramir, and I think Glorfindel got screwed in the movies. Stupid Liv Tyler.

[Mariyta]

MafiaScum veterans unite! Under the banner of traditional values, we shall triumph over evil!

Yarr! *bites Glrok*

Traditional values include but are not limited to:
1. Bandwagonning
2. Protecting the awesome players at night
3. Liberal use of nicknames
4. Bandwagonning
5. Green Shirt Thursdays
6. Doctorlynching is fine
7. Bandwagonning
8. A fanatical devotion to the pope

Wait, you forgot bandwagonning!

[Mariyta]

I like Katy. She makes sense, even though she is a buzzkill. She can be the mom of the group. Jokes aside, I've agreed with pretty much everything she's said so far, though not to the point that I'll vote Wraith.

I've never played with Zwet or Gandalf and I already don't like them. I took the claims for what they were (jokes), but I'm not a fan of joke-claims. They're distracting and useless (for town, anyway). Same goes for the scum claim. Picking between the three, I dislike Gandalf's the most, as it is the most distracting and tasteless. UNVOTE: , VOTE: Gandalf

Mole's

first

second post seems like someone who wants to post and seem useful w/o actually saying anything. Could be due to the catching up, or could be scummy. Jury is out on this.

[Mariyta]

Gandalf, you complain about Katsuki's town list, but then vote me instead of Katsuki? That's a very poorly disguised OMGUS. As for my "lack of content", I'm not going to make useless posts that parrot what others have already said when it isn't necessary.

Wraith, don't call Glork names or I'll kick your butt. I understand the semi-lurking in large games, though. I kind of do the same (though I'm trying to get better). Wait, just re-read your post where you say that an Arwen-miller role makes sense because I hate Liv Tyler? Um, what??

[Mariyta]

Sadly (or not?), I have become the boy who cried wolf. I'm actually going to stick to my claim, however. I do have some flavor as to why I'm a miller, but for those of you who disbelieve should know that I have claimed miller day 1 every time I'm actually a miller (xylbot is an example, I think (not sure)). In other news the gandalf wagon is bullshit, lynchmepls seems to be the only person to not have dismissed my point as irrelevant (town read), and the person(s) who have never played with me before and are jumping on the zwethate wagon (which I don't particularly mind) are scummish as of right now (for purely nonOMGUS reasons). Sigh. I would understand Arwen as a neutral character, but not a miller. I'll provide flavor if you guys need it.

Your claim was serious? I can't see any reason for Arwen to be a miller, but then again, with the setup of this game, some of the characters we'd expect to be good may not be. Flavor would be nice, but I'm not demanding it at this point.

Wraith, as Katy mentioned, if you find you're being lynched all the time, you should look at your past games and figure out what happened. It wouldn't hurt to ask some of the most experienced players you were playing with for advice. Most of the veteran players are awesome and wouldn't mind helping you improve your game (if you so choose).

I'll have to re-read ME after my nap to see what all the fuss is about. I have a bad habit of just skimming long posts.

[Mariyta]

Also, someone earlier told me to take a look at the games in which I was quickly mislynch as town, and I don't even need to look to know the process:

1. Someone nitpicks one of my early posts, using strawman to make it look like my word choice is scummy
2. Town immediately beings piling onto the wagon.

It's happened to me in multiple games simultaneously before, so I know the damn process.

People do not get lynched do to their first posts alone. It could be your reaction to their nitpicking that is getting you lynched. But if you don't want to improve your game, that's your problem. If your reaction this game is indicative of your typical play, I can see why you get lynched a lot, especially in smaller games. You're lucky people like gandalf and ME are taking the heat away from you at this point.

[Mariyta]

Well, that's crap. Smart, though. The only person Haylen voted was herself, and she was in the process of reading so we get no feedback from her. I blame Gandalf. He was always jealous of Aragorn.

[Mariyta]

Well, that's crap. Smart, though. The only person Haylen voted was herself, and she was in the process of reading so we get no feedback from her. I blame Gandalf. He was always jealous of Aragorn.

THIS IS A RED-ALERT. ALL HANDS MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS!

Congratulating scum is massively scummy.

Unvote
Vote: Mariyta

If you say so.

[Mariyta]

Well, that's crap. Smart, though. The only person Haylen voted was herself, and she was in the process of reading so we get no feedback from her. I blame Gandalf. He was always jealous of Aragorn.

Me don't get this comment at all.
Smart for who.

For whoever did it. It indicates (at least to me) that whoever it was most likely isn't a newb. They wanted/needed to kill someone and picked one of the few people who wouldn't implicate anyone.

[Mariyta]

Mari, are you town?
ANSWER WITH MORE THAN ONE WORD PLZ.

I am most definitely town.

[Mariyta]

How much do you know about Haylen/her meta?

If that was directed at me, nothing. But she'd contributed nada to this game (from what I could tell).

[Mariyta]

I see no benefit to zwetschenwasser's claiming this early. Why are you claiming this early.

Also, I just got a feeling that Gandalf could have claimed as such, so someone else could come out and counter claim, giving the scum someone to choose and day vig. I am assuming that the killer of Haylen was scum because it was a kill on someone who there was nothing against.

Have you read the thread at all?

[Mariyta]

I see no benefit to zwetschenwasser's claiming this early. Why are you claiming this early.

Also, I just got a feeling that Gandalf could have claimed as such, so someone else could come out and counter claim, giving the scum someone to choose and day vig. I am assuming that the killer of Haylen was scum because it was a kill on someone who there was nothing against.

Have you read the thread at all?

Sorry, I should be more clear. It appears as if you either haven't read the thread or you're parroting what others have already said. Everything you've stated has been mentioned before.

Edit: Except the part about giving scum a day vig target. Are you suggesting that gandalf's plan failed so they chose Haylen instead?

[Mariyta]

Am I the only one who's initial reaction on seeing Haylen being shot was that it was done by town. >.>
I'm not so sure but given her meta etc....

Interesting thought... In order for her meta to be taken into account, though, the killer would have to be someone who knew her enough. I'm not so sure town would strangle (not shoot) a player this early in the game, though. It's too dangerous, as evidenced by the loss of a PR.

Preview edit: Katsuki makes a good point. Strangulation looks like SK, though it could still possibly be town.

Second preview edit: Excellent point about Gollum.

[Mariyta]

Am I the only one who's initial reaction on seeing Haylen being shot was that it was done by town. >.>
I'm not so sure but given her meta etc....

Interesting thought... In order for her meta to be taken into account, though, the killer would have to be someone who knew her enough. I'm not so sure town would strangle (not shoot) a player this early in the game, though. It's too dangerous, as evidenced by the loss of a PR.

Preview edit: Katsuki makes a good point. Strangulation looks like SK, though it could still possibly be town.

Second preview edit: Excellent point about Gollum.

Someone isn't doing a lot of thinking on their own.

Hmmm. I don't think bv would bus Mari if they were partners. Which is the scum then.

Even better: Mari is SK and bv still scum. Delightful.

unvote
vote: Mariyta

What part of my post(s) isn't "thinking"? I actually thought about it a lot before posting. Just because it's about an SK kill (which I'm convinced it was, because I don't believe town would do something like that this early in the game unless they absolutely had to) doesn't mean there aren't some things to be discovered/pointed out. In fact, it doesn't make sense that it's a town kill. Town would (or should) have gone after one of the suspicious targets to narrow our choices. Whoever did it didn't want to draw attention to themselves in any way.

[Mariyta]

Wraith, I initially read you as frustrated townie, but the more you talk, the worse it gets. Why haven't you changed your vote? Why haven't you made an effort to find scum at all? Your posts are all complaints about your own playstyle.

inHim, I haven't watched the movies or read the books in a year or so. My apologies for not being absolutely 100% on the ball all the time.

[Mariyta]

Am I the only one who's initial reaction on seeing Haylen being shot was that it was done by town. >.>
I'm not so sure but given her meta etc....

Interesting thought... In order for her meta to be taken into account, though, the killer would have to be someone who knew her enough. I'm not so sure town would strangle (not shoot) a player this early in the game, though. It's too dangerous, as evidenced by the loss of a PR.

Preview edit: Katsuki makes a good point. Strangulation looks like SK, though it could still possibly be town.

Second preview edit: Excellent point about Gollum.

Can we please lynch Gollum folks? This is all pretty obvious.

I've already explained this post to inHim.

[Mariyta]

Maritya: did you have any thoughts at all about who the character might be who had 'strangled' as their kill method? If so, who? If not, why not, given that you were clearly putting some thought into who might have killed Haylen?

No. I wasn't thinking in terms of what character could have been responsible. I was thinking in terms of what player in this game could have done it. LotR characters never crossed my mind.

[Mariyta]

At least two of the people voting me are most likely scum. Gandalf is just looking for someone to take the pressure off him, and LMP has been fairly scummy all game. The focus on Kat's list has gotten epicly ridiculous. It's a list. Get over it. I don't find the SK hunting to be necessarily scummy.

I'm losing my conviction that Wraith is just frustrated townie. There has been no attempt at scum hunting at all. It's been all attacks on those who've expressed discontent at his play and complaints about his own play (which he shows no interest in changing). It's become an enormous distraction from true scum hunting.

I still like my gandalf vote. Most of his posts were defense posts, and his last post is "Hey, yeah, Wraith must be scum. I'll figure out why later."

[Mariyta]

This will probably get me yelled at even more, but is there such thing as a mafia group that kills during the day?

[Mariyta]

LMP has been fairly scummy all game.

Screenshots or it didn't happen. I'd like some proof of this. This is like the 4th time I've been called scummy (either on someone's scum list or outright like here) and in NONE of them has anyone commented on my supposed scumminess or asked me anything about it.

I explained why I thought you were scummy in that post.

Denethor is not a character I would view as town, generally. The more I read, the less convinced I am that Wraith is just a frustrated townie. His erratic, over-the-top reactions to simple comments have gone on way too long and now this.

Unvote

I need to re-read and think this over.

[Mariyta]

Denethor is not a nice character, but I don't see him as scum simply due to lack of allies for him to work with.

Don't forget that Pippin swore fealty to Gondor, as did many, many others. Faramir would do anything to earn his father's love. And then there was Boromir's less than stellar attempt at bringing the ring home.

[Mariyta]

I've begun a re-read, but my brain is too fried to continue, so here are some thoughts before I curl up and watch Hell's Kitchen.

Aside from his tasteless roleclaim, Gandalf actually appears town. His play since getting past that mistake has been pretty decent.

Wraith needs to work on his play if he is indeed town. Still need to think on his current actions to this point and whether I believe Denethor to be a true claim or a fake claim. Looking forward to his participation tomorrow.

LMP is either scum or OCD. The focus on Katsuki's list is beyond ridiculous and if LMP is town, he's allowing himself to be distracted by something that is a null tell.

Katsuki seems to love the bandwagons. First, ME, with no reasons given (please correct me if I missed them). Then switching to Wraith when the ME wagon fails. Also thinks an LMP/Katsuki scum list doesn't "make sense." It makes lots of sense if there's some distancing going on. That's not an accusation, just an observation.

Don't see the case on ME, but I only skimmed those posts (they make my head hurt). I'll read them better tomorrow.

[Mariyta]

I thought I unvoted. Whoops. UNVOTE: gandalf

TOWN:

Katsuki
Glork
LockeL
Jenniwen
Fate/Edge
Katy
CES
Dripperith

While I agree with most of this list, I want to know why you're so convinced that Jenni is town. She's contributed zilch. If you're going to add rewq to your scum list for contributing nothing, jenni should be on that list, too.

[Mariyta]

Ok, finished my re-read.

I don't get any read one way or the other on ME. It seems most of the people who voted ME did so because Glork told them to (most notably, VV and Katsuki).

jenniwren has done nothing of note except vote Nero, so I don't understand why she's making it on town lists. Unless it's due to meta, which I don't agree with.

Weird seems noncommittal in their posting. Calls miller claim "peculiar" and says "Gandalf is being gandalf." They put LMP on their scum list 3 times (without giving reasons), but still voted Wraith (the biggest bandwagon).

I think Zwet is full of it, but as others have mentioned, that's best kept for the vig (assuming we have one).

Wraith is looking more like town now that he's actually decided to contribute. I don't really agree with his vote on inHim, but it looks to be a vote he thought through and didn't just toss on willy nilly.

VOTE: Weird

Preview note: Spyrex posted while I was writing, but I'll read it later.

[Mariyta]

*fingers involuntarily start typing out a vote for ME*
No, that scum can be lynched tomorrow. He'll probably get NK'd tonight any ways

Your last two posts are making me rethink my opinion on you... Both seems parrotish and fake.

[Mariyta]

HOLY SHIT, THERE ARE UNVOTE TAGS, TOO?


Shit just got real.

Did you just notice that? Epic fail. You're clearly scum.

[Mariyta]

Holy cow, that's a lot of posts. I got bored toward the end and started skimming. I'll do better later... maybe.

Gandalf's "slip" is, as Edge put it, "careless, moronic town," IMO. I'm sure many people are operating on the assumption that there could be two scum groups, as that is often the case in large games.

Katsuki needs to stop posting drunk. You look like a 'tard, or scum. I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning toward scum.

FateReaper is genius. Listen to them.

Good boy, Glork. Now use your awesome powers of leadership and get others to vote for Weird. I'm surprised Kats and VV haven't already switched their votes to follow you.


Ignoring preview posts, as I just don't care at the moment.

[Mariyta]

Many signs of a scum post here.

Holy cow, that's a lot of posts. I got bored toward the end and started skimming. I'll do better later... maybe.

Excuses to lurk and not contribute.

Gandalf's "slip" is, as Edge put it, "careless, moronic town," IMO. I'm sure many people are operating on the assumption that there could be two scum groups, as that is often the case in large games.

If Maryita is scum, gandalf is surely town, this smells of calling a townie a townie for town cred.

Katsuki needs to stop posting drunk. You look like a 'tard, or scum. I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning toward scum.

"I haven't decided yet - not committal. Katsuki may be a buddy from this post, but I have a town read on Katsuki. I may have to reconsider.

FateReaper is genius. Listen to them.

Sounds like scum knowing that Fate's reads are all wrong, and he's about to browbeat the town into a tragic series of mislynches. That would mean that Wraith is town? 'Cuz that's whose blood Fate wants right now. There may be a competing Wraith wagon that's actually scum.

Good boy, Glork. Now use your awesome powers of leadership and get others to vote for Weird. I'm surprised Kats and VV haven't already switched their votes to follow you.

She wants us to follow Fate to a Wraith wagon, AND Glork to a WeirdRa wagon? The "Good boy, Glork" really, really weirds me out. In a twisted way, I can almost smell... bus'ing of WeirdRa...

AM I CRAZY???

-DGB

You're crazy.
A) I've been contributing all game. There were a shit-ton of posts since last night and I've been up since 4:45 am. I think I am allowed to be a little lazy today.
B) I'm not 100% sure gandalf is town, but since the fake-claim, he's seemed mostly town. I don't think his "slip" was as telling as others seem to think it is.
C) You're absolutely right that I'm non-commital when it comes to Katsuki. Some posts seem town, while others seem scummy. I don't have a solid read, yet. Are you telling me that you have a definite read on everyone in the game?
D) Edge is voting Weird, unless I read it wrong. If you switch your vote to Weird, I'll give you a "Good girl, DGB." I'm not busing Weird. I read through Weird's posts when I did my re-read before and they were the one who stood out as most scummy. If you read my posts from that time (there are two), I explained my thoughts on many people from my re-read.

[Mariyta]

Many signs of a scum post here.

Holy cow, that's a lot of posts. I got bored toward the end and started skimming. I'll do better later... maybe.

Excuses to lurk and not contribute.

Gandalf's "slip" is, as Edge put it, "careless, moronic town," IMO. I'm sure many people are operating on the assumption that there could be two scum groups, as that is often the case in large games.

If Maryita is scum, gandalf is surely town, this smells of calling a townie a townie for town cred.

Katsuki needs to stop posting drunk. You look like a 'tard, or scum. I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning toward scum.

"I haven't decided yet - not committal. Katsuki may be a buddy from this post, but I have a town read on Katsuki. I may have to reconsider.

FateReaper is genius. Listen to them.

Sounds like scum knowing that Fate's reads are all wrong, and he's about to browbeat the town into a tragic series of mislynches. That would mean that Wraith is town? 'Cuz that's whose blood Fate wants right now. There may be a competing Wraith wagon that's actually scum.

Good boy, Glork. Now use your awesome powers of leadership and get others to vote for Weird. I'm surprised Kats and VV haven't already switched their votes to follow you.

She wants us to follow Fate to a Wraith wagon, AND Glork to a WeirdRa wagon? The "Good boy, Glork" really, really weirds me out. In a twisted way, I can almost smell... bus'ing of WeirdRa...

AM I CRAZY???

-DGB

You are not crazy. Don't forget Mariyta's congratulating the Aaragorn kill.

You're right. I'm clearly scum. Lynch me now.

[Mariyta]

CES, we're lynching Weird today. We can lynch gandalf tomorrow if nothing better presents itself (though I have a few other folks in mind).

I'm really, really not liking Katsuki's play. This is the fourth or fifth time I've asked him to explain his suspicion of VV from earlier and he constantly avoided the question. He also switched his vote to gandalf at the drop of a hat, although for justifiable reasons, but he has totally dropped any suspicion of anyone else, most notably me. I find it strange that, after pushing so hard to get me lynched, he suddenly goes all out on gandalf. His recent post style strikes as him trying to blend in using Fate's playstyle.

The first time I read this, I didn't like it. But the more I read it, the more sense it makes. Katsuki does go full bore against one player at a time. I don't know if that's a playstyle thing or scum following the bandwagons. Still on the fence about Katsuki, but I like that Wraith has decided to participate.

The interaction between LMP and Weird smells strongly of bussing to me. I don't like either of them. LMP seems to jump from target to target willy nilly and I've already posted my reasons for Weird. Weird has put LMP on their list repeatedly (yet still votes gandalf) and LMP is now OMGUSing Weird, yet neither seems really adamant that the other is scum.

[Mariyta]

What's the VC look like?

Its time for killin. Dilly dallyin time is over.

I think it looks like this, but I may have missed something.

gandalf5166 - 8 - zwetschenwasser, Cogito Ergo Sum, Katsuki, SpyreX, WeirdRa, Drippereth, SlySly, Katy
Mariyta - 2 - bv310, inHimshallibe
Wraith - 2 - molestargazer, gandalf5166
Nero Cain - 2 - jenniwren, Locke Lamora
Katsuki - 4 - VasudeVa, Nero Cain, MemoriaEsponia, Wraith
WeirdRa - 4 - Mariyta, Edge, Glork, LynchMePls

Not Voting - 4 - a2rudeboy

Preview: Bah. CES beat me.

[Mariyta]

Gandalf meta case is the only part of the case on him that is bullshit. Also, I can't tell if rewq is being strange or not.

Who is most likely to be scum right now? Why?

Suppose I were to Dayvig that person right now, and they flipped as scum. Which player is most likely to be their scumbuddy. Why?

rewq555 is scum for pushing my lynch and then acting strange about it.

scumbuddy is likely drippereth, just cuz

This made me LOL. I think we have our lynch candidate for tomorrow if we don't have a vig to help us out tonight.

[Mariyta]

I'm decently certain Drippereth is scum.

What makes you certain? I have a neutral reading at the moment, leaning town.

The VV case on Kats is making me go "hmmm." Why, with all that's happened since you've last posted, do you focus solely on Kats and give no opinions on others? There are 20+ people in this game, and the only one you have an opinion on is Kats? The points are valid, though, and I'm starting to lean scum on Kats.

Eh. VV is suppose to still be on the scum list. I knew I left someone off.

I also don't build giant walls of analysis/cases, just to make that clear to you guys.

Mafia shouldn't be an essay writing contest imo.

Why not? If you feel strongly that player X is scum then how do you plan on convincing others that they are scum? Or do you just not care who gets lynched?

Oh this is wonderful what you try to make of that statement.

It is something known as my playstyle. Nice try scumpainting it though.

I don't like this post at all. Not the lack of wall writing, because I don't like walls, either. But I don't like the "it's my playstyle" excuse. That's a cheap cop-out. Maybe I'm focusing too much on semantics, but it still bothers me.

[Mariyta]

Because VV said that he was making a case on Kat when he had time. Apparently the time has come. What is the problem with that?

Please tell me what post he said that in, 'cause I can't find it. The last three VV posts are "I'm sick", "I'm still sick", "Kats is scum."

The points are valid, though, and I'm starting to lean scum on Kats.

Warming up that bus? You scum buddies are funny.

At this point I'm all for WeirdRa and Katsuki lynches.

Speaking of buses...
As much as I don't like you, I'd prefer to see your scumbuddy lynched today. Why aren't more people voting Weird?

[Mariyta]

Mary

Mari was trying to make VV's case look invalid by claiming he was only going after her.

I didn't say it was invalid. In fact, I said it was valid. I was pointing out that VV ignored the other, more prominent wagons. Aside from time issues (which he didn't state), why would you want to ignore everyone else? I don't think the case on Kats is solid enough to focus on Kats and only Kats.

LMP, I did do an ISO and didn't see it. Thank you for pointing it out. I would still like to hear VV's opinions on the other main wagons.

[Mariyta]

P.S. 30 page Day 1's are anti-town.

I agree. Let's get on w/ the Weird-lynching.

[Mariyta]

P-EDIT: Mariyta, if I recall, wern't you calling for my lynch like, last page?

Also, what are YOUR thoughts on gandalf?

No. I just expressed suspicion. My vote is on Weird and that's where it will be for the rest of today, unless something super crazy happens.

Were you asking me about gandalf? If so, I've already given my viewpoint on that.

[Mariyta]

Still lovin' the wagon yo. Bring it fools. Keep blindly following Glork and Spy with no coherent semblance of a case goin' on. That's the way to be.

FWIW, my vote has nothing to do with Glork or Spy. I've listed my reasons for voting and they haven't changed.

[Mariyta]

Still lovin' the wagon yo. Bring it fools. Keep blindly following Glork and Spy with no coherent semblance of a case goin' on. That's the way to be.

FWIW, my vote has nothing to do with Glork or Spy. I've listed my reasons for voting and they haven't changed.

Really? Two very vocal, very leader-oriented players this game are crying for a wagon on someone and you want to make it very clear you're using your own reasons?

Why does a townie need to point this out?

Weird is complaining that the only reason people are voting for him is because of Glork and Spy, which isn't true. I had read their posts and come up with my own conclusion (and voted them) before those two started pushing really hard. I wanted to point out that it wasn't just a "They said so, so we are." There are valid reasons for this lynch, and it should happen. Gandalf is not a good lynch. Katsuki... meh. I'm seeing the same type of play in another game, so I'm starting to get a feel for her playstyle. I don't think she's a good lynch for today either.

[Mariyta]

@MemoriaEscumnia: I left Mariyta out because I'm waiting on her to react. 8D. Mariytaa, where are yoouuuuu~ React react!

React to what? You posted that AFTER I posted that my vote was on Weird and wouldn't move. I assumed you saw that and didn't bother with me. Or maybe you would prefer...

ZOMG!!!!! WHY ARE YOU IGNORING ME??!?!??!?!? YOU MUST BE SCUM!!!!!!!!!

[Mariyta]

To be honest, two scum groups doesn't really make sense to me for this theme. The only real options would be Mordor and Isengard, but weren't they allied?

It depends on how the mod wanted to set it up. They are all technically on the same side, but they don't necessarily have to operate together. There could be orcs and ringwraiths, for example. The sample win condition doesn't definitively state that there are two groups, but it's a good indication that there are.

[Mariyta]

Still lovin' the wagon yo. Bring it fools. Keep blindly following Glork and Spy with no coherent semblance of a case goin' on. That's the way to be.

FWIW, my vote has nothing to do with Glork or Spy. I've listed my reasons for voting and they haven't changed.

This is a blatant lie. Go look in her ISO. She's never said why. And now she's lying about having said why.

This was just before I voted.

Weird seems noncommittal in their posting. Calls miller claim "peculiar" and says "Gandalf is being gandalf." They put LMP on their scum list 3 times (without giving reasons), but still voted Wraith (the biggest bandwagon).

And here's another reason I'm voting you.

The interaction between LMP and Weird smells strongly of bussing to me. I don't like either of them. LMP seems to jump from target to target willy nilly and I've already posted my reasons for Weird. Weird has put LMP on their list repeatedly (yet still votes gandalf) and LMP is now OMGUSing Weird, yet neither seems really adamant that the other is scum.

You've done nothing that screams town and as pointed out, you really don't seem too concerned about being lynched at this point.

[Mariyta]

Perhaps I should have said acceptable reasons. That has been explained as letting people know we're alive while we gather our thoughts. So? All that means is AGar was saying that gandalf always acts like that. I can explain the last one too. We decided together to vote Wraith, then AGar said that about LMP himself, because we discuss it before changing votes.

I'm so sorry my reasons for lynching you are unacceptable to you. I'll do better next time. I promise.

…you have a unexplainable gut read that we're bussing? Plus what's explained earlier. And is being somewhat unconcerned about being lynched a scum-tell? Especially when there's nothing to guarantee that we

are

being lynched?

Considering how close we are to deadline and that people keep switching their votes to you, yes, you should be concerned. Please take Glork's advice and claim.

*hands rewq a

stale

cookie*

[Mariyta]

&*#($&#(&$(*@^#$*)^*&^%*&^#$%*&

Well, I guess at least two scum groups make sense with that many deaths (from the previously dead scum and the NK methods, I'd guess Nazgul vs orc). Plus at least one vig and another SK? And yet Zwet still lives...

I'm going to have to do a full re-read. LMP was my main suspect and this changes everything. I'll be focusing on rewq, I think.

[Mariyta]

Somethin tells me LMP died docing the wrong way.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

[Mariyta]

I don't understand what you mean by this.

LMP was a weak doctor (dies if they protect scum).

Oh, okay. I don't think I've encountered that role before, but it sounds vaguely familiar.

Also, Drippereth's day message seems to indicate that maybe scum got an extra kill? It says that this was too many deaths and that some people just shouldn't die.

I thought it was because it was Sam, who is one of the most pure characters in the series.

@Glork: Sorry to hear that. Hope everyone will be ok.

[Mariyta]

Somethin tells me LMP died docing the wrong way.

Something about that says LMP was being AWESOME and:

Rewq, Maritya, Katsuki,

Gandalf

.

There's a scum in there.

I agree with this. He was

corrupted

so it does sound like he used his doc skills to scum hunt. I felt like he was most worried about Mari and Kat.

Tonight, because we had a lot of posts for D1, I'll be doing lots of ISOs. Choosing who to target is going to be the difficult part, there have been a veritable shit-ton of scummy things in this thread. Rewq, Maritya, Katsuki, Gandalf.

Kats and I were definitely the ones he was most perturbed by, I think. He also listed rewq and gandalf in his suspicion list (as Spyrex pointed out). We know gandalf didn't do it. And Dekes expressed suspicion of him, as well. Now the question is did he use his one-shot to scum hunt, as Nero suggests, or was he convinced someone was town and wanted to protect them? I don't know LMP enough to delve into his thought process there. Maybe others do.

I'll try to do my re-read tomorrow evening, but based on the action from today, I'm definitely leaning toward rewq. And I think I'll take a look at Kats's lists. Maybe LMP was on to something.

[Mariyta]

I am not of opinion that LMP weak-doc protected scum.

Firstly, there are 2 vig-ilicious Arrow kills (Memoria, gandalf) and 2 kills of scummy flavor('Corrupted' and 'Bled to death'). There are two scum teams. It's easy here. Second off, do you honestly believe that a weak-doc who didn't claim would up and protect their prime suspect like that? Weak docs don't think that way. Not N1, at least.

Vote: Katsuki

"Filled with arrows" screams orc (or Urak-hai), IMO, which would be scum, not vig. Bleeding to death could be scum or vig, depending on who did it. I haven't figured that one out yet. If it was a Morgul blade, it would cauterize immediately.

[Mariyta]

@Nero: What do Kats' lists have to do with LMP? He focused on them quite a bit. They were a large part of his case against her. It would be unwise to ignore them completely.

Tonight, because we had a lot of posts for D1, I'll be doing lots of ISOs. Choosing who to target is going to be the difficult part, there have been a veritable shit-ton of scummy things in this thread. Rewq, Maritya, Katsuki, Gandalf.

I think we need to be focusing on these scum candidates. Gandalf is clearly out of the running. I know I'm not scum, but I don't expect you to believe that without doing your own analysis of me. Rewq and Kats are both super scummy. Based on memory and a quick scan of my notes, I'm going to guess that his target was Kats. Re-read coming tonight, I promise.

[Mariyta]

I'm going to do a couple smaller posts while I'm re-reading because I don't like walls of text. Here are a few thoughts from the first bit.

Need to post or be prodded:
a2rudeboy- hasn't posted since 9/30 (offered no input whatsoever)
bv310- hasn't posted since 10/2 (last post was to give us a "spoiler" that Weird was scum...)
jenniwren- hasn't posted since 10/4 (when she said she was working on the game that night and would post). I get town vibes from the few posts, though.

CES hasn't really added anything to the game aside from throwing out votes with no reasons, complaining about the length of the game, and pushing for Weird's lynch (again with no reasons given).

Dekes gives me town vibes.

inHim is also guilty of voting w/o giving a reason (seems to be a plague in this group)

To be continued...

[Mariyta]

Gandalf was most definitely killed by a vigilante, not the scum. The arrow from afar makes plenty of sense as a kill method for Legolas or most other elves.

However, both scum teams would have probably thought gandalf part of the other team, and targeted him as a threat.

What? Are you saying you think gandalf was targeted by three people/teams?

Anyhoo, finished another part of my re-read. Just a couple quick notes: Wraith is almost definitely town now that he's taken the advice given and has started playing. I'm leaning town on SpyreX, too.

Haven't read Kats or rewq or any of the victims from last night. Those will have to wait til tomorrow. I can't focus anymore tonight.

[Mariyta]

@Spyre: What don't you like about my posts?

Today (D2), Mariyta said this:

"Filled with arrows" screams orc (or Urak-hai), IMO, which would be scum, not vig. Bleeding to death could be scum or vig, depending on who did it. I haven't figured that one out yet.

If it was a Morgul blade, it would cauterize immediately

.

I googled Morgul blade and found this: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Morgul-blade. Note that the Morgul blade is the weapon of the ringwraiths, and it is a poisonous blade that corrupts its victims. (Thanks for that, Mariyta.) By the way...what makes you think being stabbed by a Morgul blade would specifically cauterize? Why be so specific about the blade of the ringwraiths and NOT point out that "corruption" is more likely the cause of death by Morgul blade than by normal blade?

Frodo was stabbed with a Morgul blade and it cauterized immediately. He didn't bleed. I was actually wrong about some of this. Not all ringwraiths have a Morgul blade. It's only the Witch-king. So the others carry regular blades. I also didn't know at that time that "corruption" was an effect. I knew they turned into ringwraiths if the poison spread, but I didn't know it was specifically called "corruption."

LMP and ME both found Mariyta scummy, and LMP focused a lot of attention on the relationship between Mari and Kats. Reading Mari's ISO shows that she dismissed and/or deflected as much of the suspicion about Kats as she could get away with, and TODAY, with LMP's list on the table and under scrutiny, acknowledges that she and Kats are his biggest suspects, but that she will be investigating Rewq and not Kats. Now, their relationship is only circumstantial, but her consistency in not committing to a stance about Kats even today and her problems with VV because of his focus on Kats is questionable at

best

.

You are absolutely right that I didn't take a stance on Kats. I couldn't read her. However, in light of what happened last night and the apparent breadcrumb by LMP, Kats is likely scum. I said I would be focusing on rewq before folks pointed out LMP's last post. As I've mentioned, I haven't re-read those folks yet, so I was going completely on memory at that point.

Finally, Mari is a bit contradictory in some of her posts.

Gandalf's "slip" is, as Edge put it, "careless, moronic town," IMO.

I'm not 100% sure gandalf is town, but since the fake-claim, he's seemed mostly town. I don't think his "slip" was as telling as others seem to think it is.

We can lynch gandalf tomorrow if nothing better presents itself

(though I have a few other folks in mind)

.

I have to ask why Gandalf would be the best lynch of D2 if you think he's town, or that nothing better would present itself?

This is what I would call a misrepresentation. You neglected the bolded part. Gandalf was a distraction and some of his actions were anti-town. He was lynchable IF AND ONLY IF no one better could be found (and I didn't think that would happen).

Vote: Mariyta

In addition to these things, Mari said this in response to be questioned about the Gollum/SK connection:

inHim, I haven't watched the movies or read the books in a year or so. My apologies for not being absolutely 100% on the ball all the time.

...yet she remembers the ringwraiths use the Morgul blade? I saw TTT seven times in theaters, ROTK six times in theaters, all three several times on TV, read all the books, presented an academic paper at an professional academic conference, and I didn't remember that. Someone who forgets Gollum doesn't randomly call out the Morgul blade as the weapon of choice for ringwraiths.

I didn't forget Gollum. I just wasn't thinking in terms of what characters would have done it. I was thinking about what players in the game would have done it. I remember "Morgul blade" because Aragorn sounds so awesome when he says it. That part occurs in Fellowship after Frodo is stabbed.

[Mariyta]

Unvote, Vote: Mari

Its more of the same and quick on the draw when jenni leaps out of the shadows for a strike. THERE IS A VOTE EDGE NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION.

I don't understand what you mean. For the same reasons jenni posted, and because I answered jenni fairly quickly?

[Mariyta]

zwet whining that another player's case is invalid because it's "gut" is causing my brain to destabilize since zwet himself is little more than a light spraying of invalid gut on a game.

That is just pure awesomeness that needed to be pointed out.

Notes on Drippy: Puts Nero on scum list twice; Calls SpyreX scum 6 times; the DGB half of the hydra seemed convinced that zwet was scum.

Notes on LMP: Went full-bore against Kats (especially about the lists) for a large part of D1; Thought I was the SK; Felt rewq was scum for wanting to waste a lynch on zwet; Toward the end of the day, LMP thought Kats and I were scum-buddies (meaning that lynching one of us still leaves the other as questionable)
*Side note: I'm questioning the theory that he used his doc ability to scum-hunt. Jenni pointed out that the Morgul blade causes corruption and I think the logical two scum teams would be orc and ringwraith (or Isengard and Mordor).

Notes on ME: Both heads seemed pretty convinced that Kats and rewq were scum; Italics-head expressed the opinion that zwet was full of it;

Notes on gandalf: Thought zwet's claim was bull; expressed suspicion of rewq at the end of the day

Notes on Katsuki: Danced around the list issue and wouldn't give LMP a solid answer; "Spent 9 months in Middle-Earth"; "loled at first line of role PM"; Scum meta vote on VV, claiming he was "skating through" when he wasn't; Called for Wraith to bus and bandwagon and coached him, then said his "change in play is disconcerting"; Adds rewq to her scum list for "borrowing" thoughts;

Notes on rewq: Didn't see the benefit of miller claiming so early in the game; ISO#8 agrees that zwet is "pretty scummy" and apologizes for his lack of scumhunting; Accused gandalf of "slips" that he then defined as scummy actions (not all scummy actions are slips); Says we should try to kill PR scum over goons (but only scum know who's a PR and who's a goon...); Pushed for gandalf claim when gandalf wasn't the main wagon; Acts like he

had

to hammer Weird or we'd have a no-lynch, which totally isn't true, especially since ME already said they'd hammer in an hour; Lots of posts that only reiterate what others have already said or say nothing at all. See example below.

The whole reason that scum would claim Arwen as a miller is to obtain the status of being viewed as a miller.

While Kats seems the most likely candidate for LMP's doc/scum-hunting target, I still think she's probably town. She's said some potentially scummy things, but not more than others have (gandalf, LMP, and ME for example).
VOTE: rewq


*Note: There were some posts while putting this together. I'll read those later tonight.

[Mariyta]

Thank you jenni for the flavor on the Morgul Blade, I, and apparently the rest of the town, would not have thought of that. I agree that LynchMePls was probably night killed by the witch king, who is most likely a Mordor alligned scum with a separate night kill, due to the flavor. I doubt that if the scum used a standard night kill, the mod would have used the witch-kings specific kill method.

This leads to my new theory on the deaths. I think that LynchMePls was killed by the Witch-King specifically;

What makes you think the scum gets a separate night kill?

MemoriaEsponia was killed by one of the scum night kills, as he was filled with arrows, implying multiple killers;

This is a standard orc-killing method.

gandalf5166 was killed by the other scum factions vig, which I am thinking is Isanguard (forgive my spelling), in which case it was most likely Lurtz as I got the impression that he was an archer;

You keep using "vig" in relation to scum, which is wrong. A vig, by definition, is town. And I think most of us have come to a consensus that it was a vig and who that vig probably is (character-wise).

Sam was the other scum night kill, as there was room in the flavor to be interpreted that there were multiple killers. The reason that I think that there was a second vig in the other scum team is that it would keep balance between the two scum teams if they were identical. What do you guys think?

Scum don't usually have their night kill, plus an extra kill.

As far as the kills, Haylen was most likely SK. I can see no reason why Gollum would be town. Gandalf was vigged (shot by town). ME was a scum kill, for sure (probably orcs). Sam... Sam was probably the second scum kill. Katy (I think) mentioned a CPR doc, but I could only find that role in Medical Mafia. The flavor (bled to death) doesn't strike me as a failed docing, either. The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that LMP used his doc ability (yes, I said I was questioning it in my last post, but I wrote that hours ago and I've been thinking about it a lot since then).

Dekes made a great point about Kats' vote patterns. I tend to overlook those (yes, I know, I suck at mafia).

[Mariyta]

Notes on rewq: Didn't see the benefit of miller claiming so early in the game; ISO#8 agrees that zwet is "pretty scummy" and apologizes for his lack of scumhunting; Accused gandalf of "slips" that he then defined as scummy actions (not all scummy actions are slips);

Says we should try to kill PR scum over goons (but only scum know who's a PR and who's a goon...)

; Pushed for gandalf claim when gandalf wasn't the main wagon;

Acts like he

had

to hammer Weird or we'd have a no-lynch, which totally isn't true, especially since ME already said they'd hammer in an hour

;

Lots of posts that only reiterate what others have already said or say nothing at all. See example below.

The whole reason that scum would claim Arwen as a miller is to obtain the status of being viewed as a miller.

First off, there are several posts where I apologize for my lack of vocabulary. Me calling Gandalfs scummy actions "slips" though, does not qualify as a scum tell. Look at the vote count before I asked Gandalf to claim. Gandalf had one less vote than WeirdRa and I then voted Gandalf, and over looked the new votes on WierdRa. At a point where 2 players are tied for the lead in votes, if one is going to claim, it is acceptable to ask the other to claim.
I honestly do not trust MEs claim to vote in an hr. For example, the day has begun and ME hasn't even posted yet

Please see quote below.

. We have many lurkers and I didn't want to rely on one of them to hammer. I realize that my posting habits are not the best, as I tend to start from my last post and respond to things as I go, unless something jumps out at me when I skim over the newer stuff, such as WierdRa being asked to claim. But with that posting style, I do not know what others have said until later when I read it, and I usually won't think to take it out of my post.

I don't view everything I noted as innately scummy. They are literally the notes I took as I was reading. I've bolded the main points. Those, in addition to the other minor stuff, make you the scummiest person at this point (though I re-read zwet and he's coming close). I feel the lynch needs to be you, me, or Kats today. I'm clearly not going to vote myself, and Kats doesn't seem as scummy as you.

MemoriaEsponia, Theodred, Vanilla Townie, was Filled with Arrows N1!

P-edit: What jenni said.

[Mariyta]

And you answered your own question in your next post. Filling someone with arrows would make sense for Orcs, who, like the Witch-King, are Mordor aligned.

The orcs I'm thinking of are Isengard-aligned. I'll start using Uruk-hai instead of orcs. As was pointed out by gandalf, I believe, Mordor and Isengard are working together, but not necessary allied in the sense that a win for one is a win for the other. Should the fellowship have failed, there is no doubt that they would have turned against each other immediately.

Once more, sorry for my vocabulary, but does it really matter if I refer to a scum with his own kill as a Vig? Also, I added in the extra kill to the non-Mordor scum team because I was trying to think as a mod trying to keep balance between the scum teams. One way to do this is make them identical. Perhaps there are 2 smaller than usual scum teams, each with their own Vigs? Sorry for using the term again, but I am at loss for a better word.

Here is the definition of vig. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vigilante.

P-edit: Prove away.

[Mariyta]

I would still love to hear comments on this. I am surprised that no one has looked at this wagon, since it is obvious that there is scum to be found. With 3 town flips already, I definately think this is the wagon to look at, especially with multiple scum teams.

rewq and VV are still my top targets for scum on this wagon as stated earlier. Comments would be nice however. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU GLORK, EDGE, SPYREX, KATY, CES, SLY AND JENNI).

I would love to hear your thoughts on me. You've ignored me all day, and it's obvious that I'm a main lynch candidate today.

[Mariyta]

Someone find for me who it was that said Isengard specifically (yea I know it made senseish BUT I just need it for the secret note)

I did, but I don't know if I was the only one. Mordor vs Isengard or

orcs

Urukhai vs Nazgul seemed like the logical scum teams.

P-edit: Bah. What Glork said.

@rewq: Why are you worried about the deadline at this point?

[Mariyta]

Actually, it looks like zwet used both in his miller claim (something about the darkening shadow of Mordor and Isengard) and Wraith said the only two options would be Mordor and Isengard. I'm the first one to really look at them as possibilities, though.

[Mariyta]

I'm way too tired to be dealing with this tonight...

First, yes, I thought Kats was town. Which doesn't look good, considering LMP thought we were possibly scum buddies.

Second, I made observations and changed opinions. Everyone does.

OK... ISOed Mariyta, and all that I found on top of what has been said is that she said originally that she was going to focus on me. Then she says she is going to focus on Kats and I. Then, she proceeds to make posts on everyone, and then kats and I. Just thought it was interesting. Is probably nothing though.

I saved you and Kats for last. I read everyone not killed/not you and Kats, then I read the dead people, then you two. I felt the other information merited sharing, so I posted it.

Also, I was thinking about this SK person, who most people agree is Gollum, and I realized that there is more to this than is obvious. Why would an SK kill a possible lynch target who is not them? Usually an SK would want to kill someone who is not going to be lynched correct?

Because they want to seem town?

zwet, stop being a tard. Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to coach. Please, continue being a tard.

I'm L-2 right now, thanks to a shit-ton of people placing votes w/o bothering to do their own thinking. Who wants a claim? My character is breadcrumbed in my first two posts.

[Mariyta]

Also, I was thinking about this SK person, who most people agree is Gollum, and I realized that there is more to this than is obvious. Why would an SK kill a possible lynch target who is not them? Usually an SK would want to kill someone who is not going to be lynched correct?

Because they want to seem town?

But the SK is not claimed. And, if the SK does end up claiming SK, he or she will have a REALLY hard time convincing people that he is town aligned, even if he does kill scum.

He/she can claim vig and say "Why would I help the town if I was SK?". I can see a very small reason for Gollum to be vig (in the mines of Moria, Gandalf said Gollum still had a part to play), but I really doubt the mods would make him a vig. He fits much better as SK.

[Mariyta]

UNVOTE: rewq, VOTE: SpyreX

[Mariyta]

UNVOTE: rewq, VOTE: SpyreX

Why?

I "ctrl+F"ed on your ISO pages for Spyre, and you have said nothing scummy about him. In fact, most of your posts about him seem like you think he is leaning town.

Because he's scum.

For those who did not see this, she soft-claimed Eomer earlier.

Wrong.

[Mariyta]

UNVOTE: rewq, VOTE: SpyreX

Why?

I "ctrl+F"ed on your ISO pages for Spyre, and you have said nothing scummy about him. In fact, most of your posts about him seem like you think he is leaning town.

Because he's scum.

That isn't going to help you stop your lynch much.

I don't care. So many fucking people in this game vote w/o giving so much as a quote and it's ridiculous.

For those who did not see this, she soft-claimed Eomer earlier.

Wrong.

Did you soft claim Eowyn? She loved Eomer if I remember right.

Wrong again. Game over. Thanks for playing. And Eowyn was Eomer's sister, sicko.

[Mariyta]

@ Mariyta- I saw you look at the thread after I posted the last 2 posts, and then left. Need to make up a fake-claim?

Stop being a child. I only saw your first post, which had nothing for me to comment on. And no, I will not claim right now. You're the only one who seems to care at this moment, so it can wait. I'm sure others can figure out who I am.

[Mariyta]

Since I'm dead, I guess it doesn't matter what I post. No one targeted Glork last night, just so you guys know. I know it means nothing now, but it's what little information I have.

And it's not Mary. It's Mari. Reading comprehension FTW.

[Mariyta]

Oh, and my wagon grew awful quick in such a short time, especially in light of Kats' death. My guess for scum would be SpyreX (he hops wagons on a whim, and DGB called him scum 6 times, now she's dead, just for starters. I had more, but meh) and CES (hasn't really contributed anything of value that I can remember or see from my notes, despite his status as elite mafia player).

@rewq: IIRC, inHim has a double vote. Or maybe it's not this game. But it doesn't matter. Someone will hammer if I'm not dead now, since no one likes to actually pay attention.

[Mariyta]

And one more thing...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY GLORK!!

[Mariyta]

Yeah...you are at L-1. I know who you're claiming. Why Glork?

Unvote

Cause he's Glork. He's pretty high profile. I figured someone might target him.

P-edit: She meant why did I target you last night. And I basically already did. Do I need to flat-out say it?

[Mariyta]

My character is Glorfindel (I really do hate Liv Tyler, and I really do think Glorfindel got totally screwed). And because I know people won't read the damn game, I'm a WATCHER (aka: voyeur). I don't get names, just actions.

On a side note, I really wish some of you would put in some effort. "Sheeping" and voting just because the big names vote someone does NOT help the game.

[Mariyta]

I call your Happy B-day, Glork and raise it with a Happy B-Day, zwet!

A scum watcher isn't unheard of. And if you are in fact Saruman, Mariyta, it would match him pretty nicely flavor-wise, if you ask me.

Can you explain your contradiction in my former post other than "I guess opinions change"?
Everytime you talked about Katsuki you leaned towards scum, it evolved even into super-scummy only to change to "I think she's

still

probtown" in your next post. You believe that LMP did die while protecting mafia and you say Katsuki was his most likely target for that action. How scummy does one have to get to be considered scum by you?

To be honest, it's pointless for me to even give a shit at this point, so I don't know why I'm bothering to answer you. But my read of Katsuki kept fluctuating. When she'd post, I'd think "Damn, she's so scummy." But when I would ISO her, I could never pinpoint what it was that I found scummy. As for LMP targetting her, I wasn't sure that he would use his ability like that. I'm unfamiliar with that role and I've never played with LMP before. And as jenni pointed out, corruption is a potential result of being stabbed by a Morgul blade. Now that Katsuki is dead, it's obvious that he did use his role for scum-hunting.

[Mariyta]

To be honest, it's pointless for me to even give a shit at this point, so I don't know why I'm bothering to answer you. But my read of Katsuki kept fluctuating. When she'd post, I'd think "Damn, she's so scummy." But when I would ISO her, I could never pinpoint what it was that I found scummy. As for LMP targetting her, I wasn't sure that he would use his ability like that. I'm unfamiliar with that role and I've never played with LMP before. And as jenni pointed out, corruption is a potential result of being stabbed by a Morgul blade. Now that Katsuki is dead, it's obvious that he did use his role for scum-hunting.

You should bother defending yourself, regardless of your alignment. Especially if it's not some far-fetched point that I brought up.
If you found her scummy throughout all of your Iso up until you Iso'd her why did you call her "still probtown"? You weren't leaning towards town on her at all before, the last time you mentioned her before that post you called her super scummy.
Sorry, not buying it. You admitted you believe LMP died while protecting scum. That's why you looked into rewq's and Kats' Iso in the first place. You could've easily said you think both are likely scum. But since rewq and Kats' had about the same amount of suspicion and votes on them, you chose to get the rewq wagon rolling while defending your scumbuddy in the process.

@Wraith
Don't rule out the possibility of fakeclaims. I treat that breadcumb as null-tell.

I've given you everything I have. I've explained everything I can explain. It's up to you guys to decide what to do. If you don't believe me, keep your vote on me. That's your choice.

[Mariyta]

Mari, if you had gotten a non-zero result, what would the nature of said result be?
1) Glork was targeted
2) X number of people targeted Glork
3) Such-and-such action(s) were used on Glork

?

INQUIRING MINDS NEED TO KNOW.

I would be told which actions were used and that's it.

[Mariyta]

What does Liv Tyler (which is the main constant in those two posts) have to do with not Arwen?

What does Liv Tyler (which is the main constant in those two posts) have to do with not Arwen?

She stole Glorfindel's role in Fellowship. In the books, Glorfindel is the one who saves Frodo after he is stabbed by the Witch-king. In the movies, it's Arwen (who is played by Liv Tyler).

A little more background on Glorfindel: He's so awesome, he got to play a part in both The Silmarillion and LOTR.

[Mariyta]

Unvote

Apparently no-one targeted Glork, or he just wouldn't know if someone did and you are BSing scum, but that is just gut.

If you think I'm scum, don't unvote me just because others are.

Zwet still needs to be vigged.

[Mariyta]

My character is Glorfindel (I really do hate Liv Tyler, and I really do think Glorfindel got totally screwed). And because I know people won't read the damn game, I'm a WATCHER (aka: voyeur). I don't get names, just actions.

SHIT

Are you a

watcher

of the UFC? So

far

,

a

relatively short time since being the champ, Frank

Mir

has been just this. I hope Velasquez destroys Lesner. Carwin couldn't finish the deal.

I am not trying to outguess the mod and say it is impossible but I have never been in a game that had two watchers.

I targeted Katy last night and got no results leading me to believe no one targeted her or I was RB'd. My PM clearly says watcher, doesn't mention 'voyeur', and doesn't go into detail about results being names or actions.

VOTE: rewq

VOTE: Mariyta

Mine specifically says voyeur, then indicates that I watch others. I didn't think most people would know what a voyeur was. And my PM also states that I do not see who the performer is, just the action.

[Mariyta]

@Mari: If you are a watcher, who did you watch last night? If you said already, then I missed them.

You must've missed it.

@bv310: What makes you so sure Sly is lying? I can see Faramir as a watcher.

[Mariyta]

UNVOTE: SpyreX, VOTE: Sly
For the info bv has shared, for the points Dekes made, and because the below quote seems... I don't know if forced is the right word, but that's what comes to mind.

After witnessing your brilliance in Geezer mafia and knowing there are some players in this game that were in that one, and that news of new players of your caliber travels pretty quickly on this site, and that some of the other players in this game are the types that might be in that loop of information, I figured you would be a perceived valuable target for scum.

[Mariyta]

I also think Glorfindel sounds like pretty ripe fruit for a fake claim. He is a badass, but even so is a pretty minor role in the books and got slashed from the movies. Mariyta do you have any flavor surrounding why you are a voyeur?

No flavor, just a quote from one of the books. The image I got is the third on Google images.

[Mariyta]

I think this all needs to be shelved for another day.

HOPEFULLY ALL WILL WORK OUT.

VOTE: Zwetz

yeah its that time, eh Spy?

This only needs to be shelfed out for another day if we are near deadline. I say we resolve this now.

It is entirely possible that all three of us are town. I believe bv at this point, and Sly very well could have been blocked. There are a lot of people still left in this game, and not all mods choose to inform a player when they are blocked. Another night will give us a bit more information to work with. We all know zwet is full of shit and he hasn't really attempted to dissuade us of that opinion. UNVOTE: Sly, VOTE: zwet

[Mariyta]

UNVOTE: rewq, VOTE: SpyreX

So many fucking people in this game vote w/o giving so much as a quote and it's ridiculous.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

It computes perfectly. SpyreX is one of the biggest non-reason givers (Fate is much worse, but I think you guys are most likely town). If he's not going to bother explaining his votes, I wasn't going to either (of course, I folded and explained later on because I'm a pussy).

@Wraith: Have you not read the claim and the supposed flavor?

[Mariyta]

For those not paying attention, this is the whole of zwet's contribution. Prepare for the wall! Italics are my thoughts/opinions.

-Claimed miller (Arwen) D1
-Reiterated claim
-Hey, school started! Yay me! Claims flavor is something about the "darkening shadow of Mordor" making humans/dwarves suspicious of elves

Despite the fact that the elves are the ones who helped take out Sauron in the first place and are one of the most honest, trusted races, for the humans, anyway.

-"I'm one of the purest elves in the series, which would imply that the jealousy and hatred would be multiplied the purer the character is. I don't know if anyone else has this kind of flavor,but I'm not lying about my claim."

He really said that. I'm an elf and don't have any flavor aside from a quote. I think someone else claimed elf, too.

-Backtracks and says the only flavor he got was about the darkening shadow of Mordor.
-Likes gandalf's suggestion that the elves don't trust Arwen because she loves a human.

Too bad gandalf wasn't scum to help zwet out w/ his fake-claim.

-Insults Drippy
-Says miller is a null-tell
-Says gandalf is scum, questions rewq's alignment
-Criticizes Katsuki for not taking a stance on him.
-Calls rewq and Drippy scum, then votes rewq in the next post.
-"I don't buy weird"

This was the post after I said "Let's get to the Weird lynching."

-Asks for an explanation from Drippy, says Edge is "trying to be Fate"
-Thinks the vig believes his claim

But doesn't bother to comment on anything else, despite the fact that there was a shit-ton of info gathered during the night.

-Yells at me and Katy for trying to outguess the mod.

After we speculated on what the flavor of Drippy's death meant.

-Speculated that both scum teams targeted gandalf

Despite the fact that almost all of us agree it was a vig.

-Votes Kats, then votes CER after he realizes Kats is already dead.

Who's CER and why are they being voted?

-Doesn't understand why he's being voted and thinks we're all being manipulated.

That's it. 21 posts total, with nothing significant to point out aside from the BS claim, the lack of vote on Weird, and the complete inattention to the game.

[Mariyta]

Mari & SlySly: do either of you have flavour for why you're a voyeur/watcher?

On my first read back, I could definitely see jenniwren as a possible Katsuki-buddy. Top pick for WeirdRa-buddy based on D1 interactions...I would say Katy. CES's ISO gives me the distinct impression of many posts with very little scumhunting interest.

I already answered that. And I felt the same thing when I read CES.

/agree w/ zwet on Nero's vote. zwet isn't a distraction. He's just full of shit. He can't be a distraction. He hardly ever posts. If anything, he's just, well, there.

I'll read the case on Katy when I get home, but she's seemed pretty town to me so far.

Deadline is in less than 48 hours, folks. Get to placing your votes, please.

[Mariyta]

- Mariyta going from voting Sly for several reasons to "it is entirely possible that all three of us [Mari, Sly, bv] are town" in the very next post and then following SpyreX on the zwet wagon for weak reasons (being full of shit doesn't equal scumminess). The same SpyreX she called scum not too long ago.

I did a re-read and came to the conclusion that it's possible we're all town. Are you against people changing their opinions? I'm not the only one who did so. If you think about it and put your obviously set-in-stone opinion aside, it could very well be the case. Or it could be as inHim suggested. Aside from the fact that I know I'm not scum, the third option (that both Sly and I are on different factions) can be mostly ruled out, as I highly doubt there would be 3 watcher-like roles in one game. As for "weak reasons," being full of shit totally equals scumminess in this case. Did you read his "flavor"? It's so totally crap it's funny. He's clearly scum. And I still think SpyreX could be scum, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to help him lynch his buddy (or his scum opposition, if the case may be).

[Mariyta]

WTH???

[Mariyta]

Deadline is in 32 hours.

I'm honestly at a loss for what to do right now. I'd prefer a SpyreX/CES lynch, but rewq makes me beat my head against a wall. No lynch is almost always bad. Maybe we should consider taking me or Sly out for informational purposes at the very least?

P-edit: SpyreX makes a good point. I'd forgotten a2rude was even in this game. VOTE: a2rude

[Mariyta]

More than that - Governor, if scum, has to have minimal uses.

Unless they just saved their main man (WIFOM, I know).

[Mariyta]

I mean in actual USES - 1-shot, 2-shot max.

A governor can be 2-shot? I've never heard of that.

[Mariyta]

21 hours until deadline

Unofficial Votecount (Takes 10 to lynch):
VV (Glork) 1
a2rude (SpyreX, Mariyta, rewq, Edge, CES, bv310, VV) 7

While I agree that a replacement on rude would be ideal, we do not have the time to argue about a new lynch candidate. No one else really stands out. I would not be willing to lynch Katy or VV w/o damning evidence (which I haven't seen), and I don't think we can convince many people to vote SpyreX or CES. So unless someone has a good, solid suggestion, I think a2rude is really our only option.

[Mariyta]

Rude is L-1. If he's around, he should probably claim.

[Mariyta]

I requested replacement yesterday.

Due to irl stuff (sick, then moving, then sick again..) I just never had the time to truly catch up and give this game the attention it deserved. Which is a shame, because it looked like a lot of fun. Apologies.

Still want the claim?

Yes. We don't have time for a replacement to come in and be effective. We have just over 17 hours before deadline.

[Mariyta]

Pippin. I am a hider.

Did you hide behind anyone last night?

[Mariyta]

@ MOD: WHEN IS THE DEADLINE.

BECAUSE I WOULD SO LOVE TO FLIP THIS AROUND ONTO KATY RIGHT NOW.

It's 5am tomorrow morning. You better get your ass to flipping if you think you're going to turn this around that quickly.

[Mariyta]

I've always been under the impression that no-lynch is bad in nearly all situations, unless it's the end of the game and a no-lynch is the only real way to keep scum from winning.

[Mariyta]

Well, we have two dead scum, one from each team. If we lynch a2rude, we lose another town role. He has no reason to lie and I don't think he's paying attention enough to come up with that on the fly. I'm gonna UNVOTE: a2rude, VOTE: No Lynch.

FYI,

14 hours to deadline.

[Mariyta]

Not gonna lie, everyone who unvoted A2RB is a giant pussy.

And why is that? We have 13 hours before deadline. Do you really think lynching a pro-town player will be helpful? You're smart enough to know that VV isn't going to get a wagon large enough in that time.

P-edit: Same question to SpyreX. Would lynching an almost certainly pro-town player who had few interactions be helpful? If so, please explain.

[Mariyta]

And why is that? We have 13 hours before deadline. Do you really think lynching a pro-town player will be helpful? You're smart enough to know that VV isn't going to get a wagon large enough in that time.

P-edit: Same question to SpyreX. Would lynching an almost certainly pro-town player who had few interactions be helpful? If so, please explain.

How in what world is that "almost certainly pro-town".

Its a hider claim that didn't hide.

And, oddly enough, hider isn't a hard one to claim and roll with.

He's been so inactive, I can understand why he didn't hide. He probably didn't even think about it. He clearly isn't paying attention and I don't see him making up a role like that on the fly.

[Mariyta]

That said, if the majority of the town agrees that his lynch is better than a no lynch, I'll go with it. My experience with no lynches has been very limited, especially in large games, so I'll rely on the opinions of more experienced players here.

[Mariyta]

No lynching is TERRIBLE right here.

WHY???

From what I can see, a no lynch would save us a town role. EXPLAIN WHY A NO LYNCH IS TERRIBLE.

P-edit: If you think my lynch would reveal some useful information and that a no-lynch is really that awful, then by all means, lynch me. My lynch would at least be more useful than a2rude's.

[Mariyta]

Fair enough. UNVOTE: , VOTE: Katy

[Mariyta]

"LYNCH ME INSTEAD" AS TOWN POWER ROLE? YEAH THATS FUCKIN BULLSHIT ALSO.

REAL BULLSHIT.

As for this, there are several reason I'd make a better lynch than rude. A)I've had more interaction with people (quite a bit more) and there's more information to garner from that. Rude has had almost none ; 2) If Sly isn't lying, there's another watcher-type role, so it's not a total loss. I doubt there's more than 1 hider.

[Mariyta]

And apparently only fucking retards want to lead the town to believe they have a confirmed scum result on someone they DIDN'T FUCKING INVESTIGATE. Fuck it. You guys figure it out yourselves. I'm done. UNVOTE:

P-edit: SpyreX is "fine with" a lynch that has no chance to develop and is really only based on Edge's opinion? Yeah, you're scum.

[Mariyta]

The third head of the great Glork-Edge-SpyreX council is against this AND mari seems to have taken her ball and went home.

Some of us have shit to do that doesn't involve spending all day on the computer. I'll be around for another hour or so, but wherever my vote falls at that time is where it will stay.

Glork, I already said why, several times.

I'm really fucking tired of Edge's "DO IT NOW BECAUSE I SAID SO" shit. You're fun most of the time, but now is not the time to be a fuckhead. You initially made it sound like you had a confirmed scum on Katy, which was total bullshit and really pisses me off.

Clusterfuck-to-the-extreme VC

a2rude (SpyreX, rewq, CES, bv310, Locke, Glork, Edge) 7
Mari (Nero) 1
Nero (Dekes) 1
Rewq (jenni) 1
CES (Katy) 1

About 8 1/2 hours to deadline.

[Mariyta]

Do you think if you post it three times, people will pay attention more?

I had read your case against Katy. Several times, in fact. But I still think she's more town than several other people. So you will not get my vote today.

REALFACT: MARIYTA I WANT MORE EXPLANATION FROM YOU WHY YOU THINK YOUR LYNCH >>> RUDE2BOI BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY THAT MAKES SENSE IS SCUM WANTING TO SEEM "ILL DIE FOR GREATER GOODZ" WITH KNOWING SUCH A LAST MINUTE SWING WOULDN'T HAPPEN.

a2rude has been MIA for most of the game. He threw out very few suspicions and people mostly ignored him. I, however, have been quite active. People have voted me, I've voted them, I've laid my opinions out pretty well. I've claimed, been counterclaimed, and had that counterclaim refuted. Knowing my alignment for certain (town, though many of you won't believe that til you see it) will help put more into perspective that it will for rude. As I've already stated several times, I don't think he's lying about his claim. But now that I'm a bit calmer, I don't know how useful a hider would be compared to a voyeur. Unless something changes before I go to bed, my vote will go to him.

[Mariyta]

I don't have any good idea who to lynch today. If anything, either bv or SlySly to see who was lying.

This is just plain dumb.

VOTE: a2rude I'm going to bed. Someone hammer in the next 7 hours, please.

[Mariyta]

Just popping in quick before work. No one targeted Katy last night. *thumbs up to Katy on her SpyreX commentary* VOTE: zwet Maybe our SK will be so kind as to handle him so we can get to some more useful lynching.

Oh, and one more thing, it appears whoever thought Sam was "CPRed" was wrong. "Bled to death" appears to be the Mordor team's method of murder. Though I can't think of a single situation in the books or movies where they actually bled someone...

[Mariyta]

Just popping in quick before work. No one targeted Katy last night. *thumbs up to Katy on her SpyreX commentary* VOTE: zwet Maybe our SK will be so kind as to handle him so we can get to some more useful lynching.

Oh, and one more thing, it appears whoever thought Sam was "CPRed" was wrong. "Bled to death" appears to be the Mordor team's method of murder. Though I can't think of a single situation in the books or movies where they actually bled someone...

So, with someone who claimed watcher, someone who claimed cop and someone who claimed to have an active ability, too, you chose to watch Katy?

You're either incapable of using your ability properly or you're lying scum going for an easy fake target.

And good job on buddying up to the almost confirmed townie and the obvious flavor speculation.
...

Waiting on SlySly's result. Since I'm in no rush of lynching zwet:

Vote: Mariyta

And now the whole "Lynch me over a2rudeboy" scenario makes more sense. Mariyta was under suspicion anyways and if she's indeed faking the voyeur claim she'd have a hard time to keep up her claim. a2rudeboy on the other hand was just a last-minute lynch after zwet's lynch failed and he was about to be replaced. Maybe Mariyta figured her team would have a better chanceof winning if she took the sacrifice and let a2rudeboy's replacement salvage his reputation.
Plus, I can't still get over her 180° on Kats. After calling Kats likely scum over pages and pages to suddenly switching to "still probtown" and calling rewq scum, when rewq and Kats had both about the same amount of votes on them, is....it's inexplicable.

A) You're an asshole and you don't listen to any explanations I give, so I don't know why I bother.
B) I watched Katy because I thought she was a possible target for Edge and I could confirm him as cop. I figured he'd either check her or me. If you don't like it, go fuck yourself.

I'm tired of this shit. Lynch me, vig me, or fuck off.

When I'm dead, look at SpyreX and Dekes. Dekes apparently has a hard-on for me.

[Mariyta]

Now that's just funny.

[Mariyta]

Dekes beat me to it, but I don't like Edge's "because I didn't get RB'd" thing either. With a dead Jailkeeper, dead JOAT, and dead Scum RB, what makes you think there's another RB out there, Edge?

Just in case y'all missed it.

And...

In COMPLETELY RELATED news,

Oh cool, 1 death.

lolscum.

I'm gonna call Edge and VV confirmed town at this point.

[Mariyta]

This is the second time you've become overly aggressive after being accused. What did you expect would happen if some of your posts doesn't add up at all?

Because I've answered all your questions and you still seemed determined to see me lynched. I feel like there's nothing I can do to appease you, even though most others seem to at least semi-believe me. Yes, I've been completely and utterly wrong about two people. Apparently my reads suck ass. But what can I do? At least I'm trying. Plus, I read this game at the wrong time. You'll notice at times I'm very calm and logical, and at others, I'm just plain pissy. Shit happens.

But since the cop searching motive makes kind of sense and we have another scum flip, I'll just ask you two questions here, Mari:
a) Do you still believe rewq is scum? You were gunning pretty hard for him yesterday until the zwet wagon lifted off.
b) Do you think town has three investigation roles (you, SlySly, Edge)?

a) Not really. There had to be scum among me, Katsuki, and rewq due to the LMP situation. Now that we know for sure that Kats was scum, I don't think rewq is really all that scummy. It was him or Kats, and I felt he was scummier than her. He's more, shall we say "inattentive"? He makes you want to smack yourself stupid just so you can keep up with him, but he doesn't seem all that scummy.
P-edit: Whoops. Forgot b) It's possible. Edge is most likely our cop. I can see actions, but not the actor. If Sly can see the actor, but not the action, it seems likely. Sly hasn't really struck me as scummy.

Oh, and thanks for killing Glork, SpyreX. Am I voting you? I need to check on that. If not, vote incoming.

[Mariyta]

Apparently I'm voting zwet. But I'm oh-so-happy that so many people have seen the light and put their votes on SpyreX. I'd be quite thrilled with either lynch. For now, because I've wanted to for so long, UNVOTE: zwet, VOTE: SpyreX. Now I can go to bed happy.

[Mariyta]

Oh, and "bled to death" is like Witch-King kill flavor.

Someone stabbed w/ the Witch-king's blade wouldn't bleed (see previous discussion jenni and I had), unless the mod got it wrong and the mod is never wrong...

UNVOTE: , VOTE: zwet

Wraith is giving me non-warm-and-fuzzies again.

[Mariyta]

EBWOP:
As for the zwet speculation. I still think he was saved by one of his buddies, but since we've seen two flips from either faction and no governer among them, that would point to self preservation which is lol, because he'll never see endgame, or four scum per faction...I'm not sure if I believe that yet.
But I've no idea which townie could've had any motive to save zwet...

and I've no idea which scumbuddy would want to save me either.

I'm a liability, remember?

This is awesome. It brightened my day.

Saruman is an idiot though, so what makes you think he'll be a badass role?

And this brightened it even more. Did you forget that Saruman hoodwinked the entire wizard counsel and amassed an insane army right outside his tower w/o anyone knowing for ages? Yeah, what CES said (typing as I go, because zwet made me laugh so hard.) The dude's main mistake was thinking he could beat Gandalf.

Dammit. I had something else to mention, but now I can't remember what it is. I need to go to bed.

[Mariyta]

You're pro-MC? Do you have some clever reason for getting around the fact that the Mordor scum will just kill the ringbearers and win?

I think it will be better if we can cross-check claims at LEAST 2 nights before Mordor can get the WC. They have 2 rings. They need 2 rings. They have 1 kill a night. Plus they're probably competing with Gollum. (In fact, I speculate that Gollum only really needs the One Ring and then he leaves the game. Gollum has no need for the other three elven rings.)

If this is true, Gollum now knows where the one ring is and there is nothing we can do about it.

No one targeted Edge last night, which surprises me.

Mass claim is a bad idea. VV's suggestion might be good. Roles only. Names would be very bad, as there are only two people who could have the last ring.

I haven't re-read, so this is strictly from memory, but my guess is that scum lies in inHim, VV, Locke, or Dekes. Don't think I'll have time for a re-read today, but I should tomorrow.

P-Edit: I think Wraith should finish his claim, since we already know he doesn't have the ring.

[Mariyta]

This has turned into quite the cluster.

[Mariyta]

I like the inHim wagon. He's done nothing of note this game (that I can remember, at least).

Edge seems to be right on with his reads.

Jenni's case is good. To the point about bussing both Weird and Glork, I can see inHim having the balls to do it.

[Mariyta]

Reading in a stupor of fatigue, so forgive any stupidity that may ensue.

@Dekes: /hugs. All is forgiven if you catch the last scum.

@inHim: Please explain "one-shot, continuous". It sounds like an oxymoron to me. And who was your target? You're one of the top suspects. Withholding information will not help your case.

Dekes makes some very good points, especially about jenni. I plan on doing some ISOs tomorrow evening. Let's not rush this one. We need to get it right.

P-edit: rewq's comment makes me go WTF? as I don't remember anything being said about Wormtongue and the Palantirs. I definitely need to re-read.

[Mariyta]

Oi. Too much info.

1. rewq455
3. Nero Cain
4. Edge (Fate/ReaperCharlie hydra) - VT, lying SOB
7. VasudeVa - Tracker
9. Katy - Galadriel, mason
11. Mariyta - Voyeur
14. inHimshallibe - Cleared by VV
20. Wraith - Denethor
22. Dekes
24. jenniwren - Cleared by Katy
25. Locke Lamora

I find it really interesting that people seem to be so confused why someone would protect Edge. It's like everyone forgot his cop claim. I targeted Katy that night, assuming he would target her as well, so that I could clear him. I don't think it's a stretch that someone would want to use their one-shot to protect him. Now the question: why are we all so willing to write off such a blatant lie?

Not sure about Wraith, as he seems easily played. He could very easily be quoting the QT his scumbuddies set up for him. It's clear that scum were either given decent fake claims or they came up with them early on. My guess is that Glork would set his buddies up with something fairly solid from the get-go, especially if he mistrusted their abilities to do it themselves.

rewq comes across as quite scummy every time he posts, but if you read his ISO, it's hard to pinpoint what exactly is so scummy about him.

So rewq, Nero, Dekes, and Locke are the four I'm seriously looking at. I'm willing to go for a Locke lynch. He seems to be attempting to "help" without actually doing much. Look at his last post, for example. Questioning inHim's choice of target (as I pointed out, dumb). Then several of the attacks on Dekes seem contrived. Especially the focus on the zwet and rude wagons. They were both opposing faction, so there's no reason for Dekes to know they're scum. He's also been confirmed to not be Katy's partner, so there's no risk on that aspect.

VOTE: Locke

*Note: I haven't done a real re-read yet. This is all info garnered from today/remembered from yesterday.*

[Mariyta]

I really would prefer that Gollum strangle me, so you guys don't waste the day coming after me again. It needs to be done, otherwise you all will blindly follow fate to my lynch.

@Edge: Because you were riding her hard and it seemed the logical choice. But the point is moot anyway because, as already mentioned, YOU'RE A LYING SOB!

@Wraith: Yes, I've claimed ALL my results. Read them.

@GOLLUM: KILL ME, PLEASE. MAKE FATE SUFFER A BIT LONGER, BUT SAVE THE TOWN A MISLYNCH.

And did anyone notice how inHim didn't vote me to begin with, but jumped on me the moment a wagon formed? How fun.

[Mariyta]

Go read the fucking claim. I put watcher (voyeur). You all are fucking saying that I claimed watcher, but I put the actual claim in there. READ IT.

[Mariyta]

I do believe that is the most logical post I've seen rewq make all game. We don't KNOW Gollum is after the ring. It's pure assumption, for the town anyway.

I <3 Vas.

I will re-read today, promise. Have to make potato soup, then watch soccer,

then

I'll get to the re-read.

[Mariyta]

You were building a case on Dekes. You never mention that those are just your notes.

Tries to get Nero lynched over a2, then hammers a2 at deadline and seems pleased Benmage isn't going to come into the game.

That sounds like you're trying to incriminate him for not voting a2 intially. Yeah, yeah, you put in the "null tell" crap. Whatever.

1. Yes, VV cleared inHim, but VV could be wrong. You never know. I was listing the information everyone gave. That doesn't mean I believe it 100%. We have several claimed vanillas. Do you believe 100% that they're all telling the truth? I doubt it.

2. No. I was thinking that Edge had been going hardcore for Katy all day and she would be his likely target, regardless of bv. Edge (Fate) doesn't seem like the type of person to just take someone at their word w/o having some proof of his own.

@Edge: Hypothetical question for you. Assume I'm not a lynch option (killed by the DK, cleared, mod decides they hate me, whatever). Who is the next lynch and why?

[Mariyta]

I agree w/ rewq. Edge lied about being a cop, but I don't think they're lying about VT. Not 100% on that, though.

[Mariyta]

Ok, did some quick ISOs. I believe Nero's claim and think he's likely town. That leaves rewq, Dekes, and Locke as unclaimed/unconfirmed in some way. The common assumption seems to be that there are 2 scum left and one SK. Someone mentioned that the bulletproof role-cop could be two roles in one and may mean that the red team only has 3. Some people may think Gollum is a dayvig, but I can't see him as town-aligned. I really think Locke is our safest lynch today. He's been lurkerscummy all game and Katy has confirmed that he's not her mason buddy. With 11 of us left and only 2-3 scum, I think we're doing quite well.

[Mariyta]

I "tire"

you

? Why? Because I'm actually making you participate? Because you can't lurk your way through anymore? My apologies. Clearly, you're tired town and I should just leave you alone now (that was sarcasm, in case you didn't get that part). What reaction by VV? Where he said he thinks you're town trying to catch up? And yes, those are correct.

We have 4 days to deadline, folks. Let's get on with this.

[Mariyta]

You're

tiring

me

out. Lurking at this stage in the game is a valid case, IMO. Scum often lurk early on to stay under the radar. Don't pass it off blithely as a null tell. And I don't think lynching one of our VTs is logical. First, I believe their claims, so we'd be lynching town (which is dumb). Second, you have been confirmed by Katy to not have a ring. Third, the reasons for ruling others out are not "flimsy." Fourth, you're scum.

What does VV's reaction to a case you made on Dekes have to do with what we're discussing? No, I don't think VV is scum based on that. What's your point?

I have no idea why Sly counterclaimed. It seems like a stupid, dangerous gamble. If I had been lynched, he would likely have been run up the next day. Unless he thought I was on the other scum team for some reason.

[Mariyta]

We get it, you two are Town.

Now vote Dekes. Seriously, vote Dekes.

You're half right. And I think you're wrong about Dekes. Throw out Halloween v/la as part of your case, because that's invalid. How else has he lurked? He's been pretty active, IMO. Much more active than LL. What else do you have on him, aside from lurking?

[Mariyta]

My main concern is that I do not want to chase after someone who could possibly be Katy's mason buddy and out the other ringbearer. She has confirmed that LL is NOT the other mason. Hence, he is the safest, unconfirmed/unclaimed lynch at this point. I did read over his case against Dekes, and while he makes some valid points, other points seem to be a stretch (as I mentioned, the votes on opposing scum factions. He'd have no way of knowing they were scum). The point about Dekes focusing on Isengard and the SK is very good, though. I'd be willing to go for a Dekes lynch, but I'd still prefer LL.

[Mariyta]

Yeah, I'm not reading all that right now. I don't have the energy. Maybe someone else can participate so it's not just me, Locke, and VV trying to figure out who the scum is. Lynching me wouldn't be the end of the world at this point, though it'd be a wasted lynch. But I don't have any ring, so you wouldn't lose anything there. That would put you 10-2, and hopefully only 9-2 tomorrow.

[Mariyta]

Recruited? What? And what the heck is a death miller (just looked it up) and why are you claiming it? Are you saying you're going to come out as scum?

Holy P-edit Batman!! Why the heck would some "madness" mechanic be enacted on you?

UNVOTE: , VOTE: Wraith He's either scum or insane.

P-edit#2: Your "information" was filled with holes and extremely faulty. I find it very likely that your scumbuddies gave you a pretty solid fake claim, considering who they were.

[Mariyta]

Isn't it 6 to lynch? I believe that's only 4.

Also, why are you so worried about Edge checking in? Fate flat out said he's ignoring this thread until the SK shoots someone.

[Mariyta]

Maybe if you didn't fakeclaim cop, we wouldn't be in this mess...

And here, I'll help you out. UNVOTE: Wraith-scum, VOTE: Mariyta. Let's get on with it, then, so you can move the fuck on and find real scum.

[Mariyta]

Do me a favor and tell us who you want lynched tomorrow. Just for shits and giggles. Unless you honestly 100% think I'm the last scum.

[Mariyta]

Refuse to participate? I've been quite active the entire game. But whatever. You've got it into your head that you want me dead, and you're not going to let up until that happens. And I really don't care at this point. It's not a LyLo situation, so have at it.

I think I'm developing a love/hate relationship with you. You're a lot of fun to play with, but you can be a pig-headed, stubborn ass, too. You are the definition of "tunneling."

[Mariyta]

A) I don't think there's anything wrong with my play. So fuck you. B) I've refuted all the cases against me. It's your decision whether to listen to the refutation or not. C) Guess death is the only option. Have fun.

P-edit: What? I don't understand a word of what you just said.

[Mariyta]

I'm still voting myself because I was trying to help you out. But now you've changed your mind again. So if both Dekes and I are scum, who do you want lynched? There's no point in moving my vote if I'm just going to have to put it back once you change your mind again.

[Mariyta]

Also: jenniwren visited SpyreX. I thought it was some nazgul summoning poison kill or whatthefucknot.

@LOL FATE.

When?

[Mariyta]

Nm. It didn't give me a p-edit.

[Mariyta]

Sounds good. Guess I should get to bussing then. UNVOTE: , VOTE: Dekes

[Mariyta]

We have to keep VV and Edge for another couple days. This is just too much fun. (Even though they're probably both town.)

[Mariyta]

It's official. I think I love Fate. I have tears in my eyes I'm laughing so hard.

On a sadder note, I pity the people who haven't been following the game today and have to catch up tomorrow. They're going to need something a bit stronger than weed once they get done.

[Mariyta]

VV isn't as funny as Edge. And rewq gets the VI award, even though Wraith and Nero are really putting up a good fight. Shit. I just lost my train of thought. Well, hell. It's not coming back. I blame Rachael Ray.

[Mariyta]

Ya know, my "meltdowns" are no worse than many others in this game. Did y'all forget Wraith's little episode early on? And Fate freaks out on a daily basis. And I think some of what you guys are calling "meltdowns" are really sarcastic comments that you're reading incorrectly. For example, voting myself was not done in a "ZOMG, I HATE YOU ALL" manner. It was more of a "Come on, put your money where your mouth is." And for the record, I'm not eating, sleeping, or watching TV right now, so eat it.

[Mariyta]

I assumed it was Mordor. Only the Witch-king carries a Morgul blade. The rest of the team should have regular swords of some sort.

[Mariyta]

Wait, what? The only person who's mentioned recruiting (IIRC) is Wraith...

[Mariyta]

What's to say Gollum can't also be a Tracker?

But, we need Mordorscumdeath.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Yeah, yeah. ZOMG, Mari's so familiar with LOTR and she didn't connect the two. Blah blah. Anyway, he managed to track Frodo through the entire trilogy because he was drawn to the ring. Though, it makes more sense for him to be a "ring cop" or something than a tracker... Food for thought, though. And who do you think is Mordorscumdeservingofdeath?

[Mariyta]

I think Mari and Wraith are stupid. Mari is all like

Edge is to funny to be scum.

SRSLY, this is like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Says the guy who is in the running for the VI award... I never said "Edge is too funny to be scum." I said we need to keep Fate around a bit longer because he's entertaining. It has nothing to do with the fact that I have a town read on Edge anyway. Their entertainment value is entirely separate from their alignment.

[Mariyta]

I think Mari and Wraith are stupid. Mari is all like

Edge is to funny to be scum.

SRSLY, this is like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Says the guy who is in the running for the VI award... I never said "Edge is too funny to be scum." I said we need to keep Fate around a bit longer because he's entertaining. It has nothing to do with the fact that I have a town read on Edge anyway. Their entertainment value is entirely separate from their alignment.

Actually, I take this back. I think the fact that I have a town read on them makes it a lot easier for me to find them entertaining rather than annoying.

[Mariyta]

My ISO#111 is where I decided Edge is most definitely town. VV, too. Glork kind of sealed the deal. Of course, at that point, we all still thought Edge was the cop, but their play since then hasn't changed and despite the F'ed up cop claim that screwed a bunch of shit up, as VV pointed out, I still think they're town. And I think Fate's reads have been pretty solid for the most part. But all my reads have been shite to this point, so do with that what you will.

[Mariyta]

You took him seriously when he claimed DK?

[Mariyta]

You took him seriously when he claimed DK?

I don't see town motivation in fake claiming so yes I took it seriosly. Looks like Wraith and Dekes took it seriously as well. How did you

know

he was fake claiming?

The moment he started screaming that he was Gollum, I'm pretty sure most of us wrote it off as BS. Neither Fate nor RC are really that stupid. Unless it's one hell of a gambit, but I don't see either of them seriously trying it in a game this big.

[Mariyta]

Just a reminder that we have

2 days til deadline

. The two main wagons are Dekes (2) and Wraith (3), though Dekes is effectively at 3, since Edge claimed the hammer. Pick your pony, folks. Rewq, inHim, Katy, Jenni, and LL need to decide soon.

[Mariyta]

I'm feeling a Wraith lynch more than a Dekes lynch at this point... Though his post when he thought he was lynched before makes me think he really might be town.

[Mariyta]

Dekes is at 3, Wraith is at 4. I suggest jenni drop the hammer, especially if it's on Wraith. If the Palantir truly does pass hands, I'd prefer confirmed town have it. Edge, would you agree to that?

[Mariyta]

Katy is not a good hammer, because then she will have all the rings and/or a palantir. She's already a huge target as it is (and better be protected tonight). We don't want the same person to have all the rings if we can help it. And stop being stupid. 2 days til lynch and you want to start that back up again?

[Mariyta]

Til deadline, I mean.

[Mariyta]

I agree on the trusting Katy point, which is why I picked jenni. Katy confirmed her as town. (At least I think it was Katy. Please correct me if I'm remembering that wrong.)

[Mariyta]

I'd forgotten about that. Edge, what say you?

[Mariyta]

You make a good point about the seraph protection (which I believe). It's unlikely that both jenni and Katy can be protected tonight, so putting potential rings in the hands of someone who is protected is a good idea. However, the possibility (though extremely small, IMO) exists that you are Gollum, and the One Ring could potentially pass to you. I say we let Katy decide. She seems pretty logical and I trust her decision.

My question about that quote is what made you change your mind about Wraith, considering the way Kats flipped?

[Mariyta]

I was thinking Kats was red, for some reason. Scratch that concern. I really don't think Wraith is scum and I think it'd be a wasted lynch. But we need to figure this out soon. Just over 48 hours to deadline.

[Mariyta]

So Katy doesn't like either of our wagons. I don't agree that Wraith is scum, and she apparently doesn't like a Dekes lynch. So that means LL is back up as lynch candidate, IMO. rewq is tempting, but he's unclaimed/unconfirmed, so I'd rather not risk going after him right now.

I really think we should go with Katy on this one. UNVOTE: Dekes

[Mariyta]

RC, are you saying that someone is lying to Wraith, knowing he'd spill all this info and likely get himself lynched?

[Mariyta]

I'm not going to hammer someone who I don't believe is scum. I think he's just a really bad player.

P-edit: What VV said. Jenni should hammer.

[Mariyta]

Regardless, it will be helpful to get the Palantir out of his hands.

[Mariyta]

You really want Wraith to hold on to it? If he's town, he clearly has let it go to waste. And I'm hoping Edge will respect the fact that we want jenni to hammer.

Oh, one more thing. There's no fence sitting involved. I flat out said I think he's town and won't hammer. If I was fence sitting, I'd be like "Weeeelllll, he

could

be scum... but I'm just not sure..." Then I'd hem and haw until someone else laid down the hammer.

[Mariyta]

I love how you always use insults when someone doesn't agree with you or points out a mistake in your accusations. Your maturity level is noted. And you're not very good at reading either. I didn't say we NEED to get it into someone else's hands. I said it would be HELPFUL. Obviously, I think lynching him will be a waste of a lynch for the most part, but it looks like that's what will happen. But if jenni gets the palantir, it won't be a total loss. Though, I highly doubt she'll get much from it. I think the other party(parties) used the palantirs to mess with Wraith, and jenni won't be as susceptible to that.

[Mariyta]

WeirdRa - 13 - Mariyta, Edge, Glork, SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum, inHimshallibe, VasudeVa, Wraith, LynchMePls, gandalf5166, Dekes, Drippereth, rewq455

Has rewq claimed?

vote: rewq

We have 30 hours until deadline and you want to pull this out of left field? You do realize why we're reluctant to force anymore claims, right?

[Mariyta]

Ok, I know at least some of you must be town, so let's all stop and think for a minute. First of all, we don't know that the person who hammers will automatically get the palantir. Secondly, why does anyone believe there are three palantirs anyway?

First, very good point. RC thinks a random person gets it, actually, so hammer won't really matter... unless Wraith is really scum and has a ring or two. That's one of the reasons I'd prefer jenni hammer. Just in case. I don't think he's scum, but I've been wrong quite a bit in this game. (Bring it on, Nero.)
Second, based on the (albeit horrid) information Wraith gave us and the information Edge looked up, 3 seems to be the logical number.

[Mariyta]

If she has not hammered by 6 EST tomorrow evening, I'd offer to do it, assuming enough people trust that I'm town. Otherwise, I volunteer Katy. I don't like putting all our eggs in one basket, but she's the one person I think we're all agreed is absolutely town.

P-edit: Well, hell. You guys suck. Remove your vote, I'll vote, then you can hammer.

[Mariyta]

I'm not hammering, so it's not an issue anymore. Y'all can yell at Edge if you don't like it.

VOTE: Wraith

[Mariyta]

Nero, Edge is the only one who we know is protected. If jenni hammers, she's likely dead tonight (either her or Katy will probably be taken out, assuming we don't have two docs remaining). Our only chance to keep the ring(s) safe is to have Edge hammer.

P-edit: Nero unvoted. He was voting Wraith, correct?

[Mariyta]

inHim, if you're still here, please do the right thing and change your vote.

[Mariyta]

You do realize that Nero voted, then inHim voted, so the whole plan is shot anyway, right? Why does no one pay attention?

[Mariyta]

This is why I get pissed when people don't fucking pay attention. Preview is there for a reason.

P-edit: Wraith, if you

knew

we were wrong, why didn't you correct us?

You

let us mislynch. Good job.

P-edit#2: What do you want me to post about? I'm pissed. We knew where the rings were going and that they'd be safe. Now if there are rings, they're going to someone unconfirmed and unprotected.

Quick posting so I can post!!!!!

[Mariyta]

EBWOP: QUIT posting, not quick.

P-edit: I don't think inHim intentionally quickhammered. I think he wasn't paying attention and placed a vote just after Nero w/o checking what had been posted already.

[Mariyta]

This is why I get pissed when people don't fucking pay attention. Preview is there for a reason.

P-edit: Wraith, if you

knew

we were wrong, why didn't you correct us?

You

let us mislynch. Good job.

P-edit#2: What do you want me to post about? I'm pissed. We knew where the rings were going and that they'd be safe. Now if there are rings, they're going to someone unconfirmed and unprotected.

Quick posting so I can post!!!!!

Did I not tell you I wasn't lying? The town followed up with insults and accusations. Funny thing is, the only confirmed townie didn't believe I was scum, and even refused to hammer. You didn't listen to her.

I'm not talking about the QT shit. I'm talking about the random passing of the palantir. Anyway, it's a good thing you're town, otherwise the rings would be off in the middle of no-man's land, completely unprotected.

P-edit: You're right. I missed his "I don't trust you" post... He has a lot to answer for tomorrow (I don't think he'll come back tonight.)

[Mariyta]

The mod needs to come lock this thread so I can get back to my NaNo novel.

I do think that there is a good chance that he's Boromir since you're Gollum and all.

As Edge said: Um, what?

P-edits: Nero, you're not confirmed town, so we would've all said no.

[Mariyta]

Edge is a bad target for tracking (VV thinks he's Gollum, Gollum doesn't act at night). rewq is a decent target. VV, if you want me to confirm you, target rewq. The only other logical target is me, and I don't think I can target myself (Q into mod, but no response yet).

I wish Katy had been here, too. I would've been quite happy w/ a rewq lynch, but I didn't want to potentially reveal the other ringbearer. Now we know he's not, so he's a valid target for tomorrow. He should at least be forced to claim, if nothing else.

Effing P-edits: I'm trying to, Fate, but people won't quit posting!!

More freaking P-edits: inHim, it very clearly stated that he was not targetted.

Posting w/o previewing, will respond w/ new post if necessary.

[Mariyta]

I'll read the thread until it's locked.

P-edit: @VV: I only see actions, not who did it. If someone is killed, I'll probably only see "so-and-so was brutally stabbed with a ballpoint pen," which is useless. We know which team is doing the killing, so method of killing will not help. However, I can confirm that "so-and-so was tracked."

[Mariyta]

VV, you pick the target and I'll follow.

P-edit: Nero, yes, he probably will, but RL, not in this game.

[Mariyta]

Fuck it. You know who I'm watching. VV, you do whatever the hell you want. If I can't confirm you tomorrow, your head will likely be in a noose.

[Mariyta]

I'm not going to flat out say it, because as VV pointed out, that would ruin any results he gets. But I hope he works with me a bit and helps me confirm him. (I don't think he's scum. I think both he and Edge are town.)

P-edit: Tracking you is pointless. VV thinks you're Gollum, and Gollum does not act at night, as I've already pointed out. Why waste his ability completely just to confirm him?

[Mariyta]

I'm just gonna pat Nero on the head and walk away...

[Mariyta]

Meh, I'm not fazzed. I'm pretty sure that each scum team had a plantir so you are correct that you posted about telling us before lynch but if Wraith flips town this confirms you as scum.

How, exactly? If the palantirs pass randomly, and one scum team is dead, why is it not a possibility that the palantir from that team passed to town?

As far as the passing of the palantir is concerned, random makes sense. I keep picturing that scene after Saruman killed himself when the shiny ball was just sitting in the water, waiting to be picked up by anyone.

[Mariyta]

NO. YOU CONFIRM YOURSELF TONIGHT OR YOU DIE. WE HAVE ALL AGREED ON THIS BEING THE WAY THINGS WILL HAPPEN, NERO NOTWITHSTANDING.

I don't agree w/ you on this. I think VV is town, and unless some damning evidence comes forth tomorrow, I will not be voting him. The two vote candidates for me are rewq and LL.

[Mariyta]

NO. YOU CONFIRM YOURSELF TONIGHT OR YOU DIE. WE HAVE ALL AGREED ON THIS BEING THE WAY THINGS WILL HAPPEN, NERO NOTWITHSTANDING.

I don't agree w/ you on this. I think VV is town, and unless some damning evidence comes forth tomorrow, I will not be voting him. The two vote candidates for me are rewq and LL.

love the distancing, Mari. Its a good color on you.

You really are an idiot.

[Mariyta]

HAVING A CONFIRMED TOWNIE IS FUCKING USELESS GIVEN THE SCUM WINCON.

WE ARE NOT FIGHTING FOR LYLO. WE ARE FIGHTING TO FUCKING CATCH SCUM. AND ME NOT CLAIMING MY FUCKING ACTION IS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT BECAUSE THERE ARE PROBABLY 2 FUCKING MORDOR LEFT. 2 MORDORS THAT CAN EASILY SWITCH NIGHT KILLS.

WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS GOD.

GO TO BED AND STOP GIVING HIM THINGS TO RESPOND TO. You're both town. Get over it.

[Mariyta]

One last comment, then I, too, am going to bed. Scum lies rewq, LL, and Dekes. I'd bet money on it. At the very least, one of them is scum, but most likely two. Dekes disappeared after Wraith became the main target. And LL and rewq have been confirmed to be not masons. We need to focus on these 3 tomorrow.

[Mariyta]

Fate, I beg of you to not let yourself be bated by VV. Please consider other scum candidates as well. If in the end you decide VV is the best lynch, fine. But don't pigeon-hole yourself, please. Look closely at the three I listed. You will not be disappointed.

[Mariyta]

I think you read it wrong. I wasn't saying

I

would go after him tomorrow. But if I can't confirm him, you will most likely hunt him down like a dog and rip him into as many shreds as you possibly can. It was a plea for him to put his pride and stubbornness aside (I think part of the reason he doesn't want to do it is because you told him to), for the sake of the town.

There's not much more we can do today. I should've gone to bed an hour ago. I'll be re-reading VV, rewq, Dekes, and LL during the night.

[Mariyta]

Haven't read anything, but wanted to throw this out. rewq was tracked. I can only assume by VV. But now the question must be posed: did he used his night to track instead of kill?

[Mariyta]

EBWOP: Another possibility is that they went after Edge to test his protection?

As far as the Slyscum speculation, the only thing I can think of is that he seriously thought I was scum and felt ccing me would help him. Nothing else makes sense.

Re: the co-wincon, I don't think that would be the case. A) I don't see how it makes much sense in mafia. B) It would be too easy for the scum to win, IMO. C) Isengard and Mordor worked together in the sense that Isengard was basically contracted by Mordor, but they waged their own separate wars, really.

I don't know how to convince people I'm not scum aside from the fact that I've given you everything I have. If you have questions, I'll answer them, but I've responded to every case so far. Do with it what you will. In the meantime, I second Edge's request for a rewq claim.

[Mariyta]

/sigh

B) It would be too easy for the scum to win, IMO.

How so? They don't know who has the rings. Don't you think the mod would have taken this into account and made it somewhat difficult?

If each team only had to get two rings, rather than one team getting all four, I think that would be too easy. I believe that was the suggestion made. If I misread it, my apologies.

+++ we know that the mafia DOES need the rings as per Katy why do you and Edge deny this?

I'm not denying it at all. I am disagreeing with the "co-wincon" possibility. I do not doubt Katy's claim that the mafia can win by obtaining all four, but I doubt the suggestion that each team only needed two.

Who is our best lynch and why?

I still need to do a re-read, but as of now, I'd say rewq or LL. Katy has already said neither of them are the ringbearer and they are both unclaimed.

I second Edge's request for a rewq claim.

Stop ring bearer fishing.

Please see above.

[Mariyta]

Locke, I don't know what else you want me to say. I DON'T KNOW WHY SLY WOULD CC ME. It makes little sense. I'm not dealing with this again, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW!!!!! And what do you mean "Why rewq?" Why target him last night? So I could confirm VV. Why vote him today? I already explained that, so go read.

VV's claim that rewq didn't target anyone and the fact that no one died should definitely be taken into consideration today. More likely, they targeted Edge or Katy (who damn well better have been protected), but we can't rule out the tracking result either.

[Mariyta]

Wasn't VV's tracking ability already confirmed by Jenni, though?

Yes, but many people wanted another confirmation. Now he's twice confirmed.

[Mariyta]

I'd love to hear from Dekes, who quickly disappeared as soon as the wagon on him dismantled. VOTE: Dekes L-3.

[Mariyta]

Although meh. No deaths last night is putting me off. . I'm not sure what to think of it.

Agreed. I've come up with

four

five possible reasons, listed in the order of likeliness (IMO).

1. They targeted Katy and she was protected.
2. They targeted Edge and he was protected.
3. rewq assumed he would be tracked and decided not to kill.
4. Someone decided not to kill to frame rewq.

4.

5. Scum was RBed.

4 may actually be more likely than 3, considering the game rewq has played.