Were Sociopath town in a game with me in it, it would be the first time.
Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)
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Vote: Sociopath
Were Sociopath town in a game with me in it, it would be the first time.-
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Nope. His explanation is slightly hyperbolic. (Mine is not.) Also, one of the times was when I was scum and he was SK.-
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@ Friend -- You are getting a special preview of what those players were talking about.-
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@ Furco -- It is my personal interpretation that your unusual style is an affectation, and that you have a main account elsewhere that is better-behaved. Also, even if that's not the case, the flagrancy of those 2 posts after Friend's question look like answer-by-example to me.-
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I like the burgeoning Beefster wagon better than my RVS SP vote.Unvote; Vote: Beefster.
Different reason, though. First, the claim that they're "playing on one another" (positing 2 scum) looks like an attempt to tie someone to a scumfriend more than a reasoned analysis. Second, the worry about hammering looks faked; I don't think Furco has more than a handful of votes, and this is a Large game. Third, I think the defensiveness about his prior post that begins that one ("Of course my last post wasn't very useful") leans scummy.-
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This put something in the air.animorpherv1 wrote:Also, Furcolow:
I'm lynching you because I've taken a look in several other games, and you have providedterriblereasoning in every game, and you act even more scummy than I DO.
This is the one policy lynch I support.
This gave me a bright light.Iecerint wrote:I like the burgeoning Beefster wagon better than my RVS SP vote.Unvote; Vote: Beefster.
Different reason, though. First, the claim that they're "playing on one another" (positing 2 scum) looks like an attempt to tie someone to a scumfriend more than a reasoned analysis. Second, the worry about hammering looks faked; I don't think Furco has more than a handful of votes, and this is a Large game. Third, I think the defensiveness about his prior post that begins that one ("Of course my last post wasn't very useful") leans scummy.-
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I wish you had formalized your limitations a bit more clearly.-
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@ Soc -- convince me that Friend is a better wagon.-
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I am sympathetic to Friend being scum, if you're referring to your argument to that effect. Your feelings about Beefster seem pretty nonspecific, though.
No, I don't think his contributions are deliberately subpar. I've never played with Beefster before, though, so I have no reason to assume as much. If you know something about him that you think is relevant for interpreting his behavior, please teach me.-
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OK, so, @ Soc, your bit about BS doesn't make much sense to me. I'm going to summarize it as I read it so that I can show me where I am wrong:
There are 2 ways scum can seem scummy:
A) By accident
B) On purpose
You agreed with me when I said BS wasn't intentionally a crap player, so the question is whether he is scummy by accident. But it isn't an accident because he does it (?????).
So...are you basically saying "BS is VI"?
Also, I think we talked past one another on the first part -- I thought you were asking whether I thought BS was a player like Furco who deliberately plays with a scummy style.
I can see where you're coming from in the paragraph about Friend, though.-
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@ Soc -- Not quite. That time we were having a conversation about how I'd totally been inconsistent about something, and then you decided you just thought I was scum because of my warped view of the game or whatever. You're remembering the "warped" bit (which I was totally honest about and always holds) and not the fact that you originally caught me using inconsistent rhetoric.
I just reread Beefster in iso, though, and I think LL's vote itself doesn't make much sense. Beefster'ssubsequentposts still look kinda scummy, but the one LL voted him for is fine. I also agree with that first paragraph of Agar's (but not the rest -- it looks kinda fluffy to me). Personal introspection does imply that I, at least, would be more likely to criticize someone for "posting to post" if I were scum myself. I think different scumtells occur to me when I'm scum, and that's the sort of thing that would occur to me early game.Unvote; Vote: LL.
I had something else to say, but I forgot.-
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@ Wraith, it's not that a specific post of Soc's is great; I'm alluding to our earlier discussion about Beefster vs. Friend being scummier (i.e. he argued for Friend). I don't think there's anything scummy about mothrax yet; I think people attacking him almost have to be distancing or attacking a townie. Friend's post about mothrax's most recent post being scummy is what convinced me.-
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EBWOP: Obviously, they can't literally ALL be scum, but it's a +scum bit as I see it, and was the threshold-crosser for Friend for me.-
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I think the VC flavor indicates something different from that.Wraith wrote:Good point. Personally I think the VC flavor signifies the righteousness/evildoing of actions rather than alignment, but not because someone is town/scum. The flavor wouldn't be so blatant as to spoil alignment.
However, given that you think what you just said, why aren't you all over wanting to lynch Beefster, since my vote for him and the explanation is what got the specialest glow and so on?-
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My post didn't make any reference to a policy-lynch, though. This was my post:Iec wrote:I like the burgeoning Beefster wagon better than my RVS SP vote. Unvote; Vote: Beefster.
Different reason, though. First, the claim that they're "playing on one another" (positing 2 scum) looks like an attempt to tie someone to a scumfriend more than a reasoned analysis. Second, the worry about hammering looks faked; I don't think Furco has more than a handful of votes, and this is a Large game. Third, I think the defensiveness about his prior post that begins that one ("Of course my last post wasn't very useful") leans scummy.-
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(Unless you're arguing that my post was anti-policy lynch inasmuch as it was scumhunting logic at-all, in which case it would seem to be a pretty nonspecific barometer.)-
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My point is less "let's figure out how things work, guys!" and more "You have said you think things work THIS way, but your behavior is NOT consistent with that."
Also, I just glanced through your iso. When did I push a wagon on Furco?-
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Furc -- voting yourself, then claiming that it was a clever tactic or some sort, is prototypical scummy VI behavior.-
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<3SP<3
Maybe he is town for the first time.
Unvote; Vote: Wraith
For both the thing that I noticed (his explanation for it was sorta ad hoc and didn't impress me) and the thing after it that Soc noticed.-
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What did you do, since you appear to be cognizant of it and/or to have done it intentionally?-
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Nah, SP; I said stuff about Wraith first, Soc said it second. I mentioned as much in my votepost.-
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You said there were 1-2 scum on your wagon before IIRC.-
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I don't like the speculation that Wraith is cleared in any way by 490. If anything, the cheerful referral to "psychos" would appear to imply a scumlynch than a mislynch. I MORE anticipated a scum flip after seeing his post.
In other words, I agree with whichever player is (I assume) using flavor to express dislike in Wraith's faux-posthammer post.-
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I'm not implying that you didn't think you were hammered. I'm saying that your behavior was consistent with scum thinking you were hammered.
Granted that your confusion in 509 there does look genuine.-
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EBWOP: "you being scum who thought he had been hammered."-
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Vote: Beefster. He was my favorite wagon yesterday until Wraith's shenanigans.
Someone should show me the scummy thing that Furc did during the Wraith wagon.-
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Unvote; Vote: Me=Weird.
I'd forgotten about you.-
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And I totally don't know what we're talking about with regard to random numbers.-
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I'm voting for you because my biggest second-tier targets were Beefster and Friend, and I think Friend has evidenced more pro-town play in the past several pages than have you. Refer back to my votepost for Beefster for why I thought he was scum.
Also -- and this is peripheral, cuz it's harder to interpret -- I got my shiny light when I was targeting your slot before, so I have relatively good feelings about targeting you. The light could've been due to other things -- maybe someone rapid-investigated me around that time or something -- but the fact that the lights are tied to specific posts makes me think it has something to do with, well, the specific posts. The whole thing could also be a wily scum mechanic, I guess, or sanity-influenced, but ye know.
Yesterday I thought I was being Neighborized into the "warm light" Holy Order or whatever, but I guess I was wrong.-
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I'M POSTING THIS IN A SEPARATE POST SEE HOW HANDY?
Or it could be that the lights are the !!!!!!!! players ways of expressing their views of the game.-
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Or they might be a non-!!!!! player's way of expressing game views.-
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Maybe at least some of them are scum-based?-
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Maybe we should make up a system for letting !!!!!!!!s endore specific combinations of posts...?
For example -- this post means all of the above except for 613.-
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My spam was so that a hypothetical player in charge of warm/yucky light messages could give us information about how to interpret them, if you didn't quite follow what I was doing.
I have an exam tomorrow, but will do your exercise after that.-
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I agree with LL's suspects/townread post. Except that I might switch in Plum for someone, on the basis that her read on me seems a little fake. It's actually kinda similar to rhetoric I used as scum in a game she modded awhile ago.-
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@ M=W -- I guess so, yeah; put from my perspective, something scummy happened, and then nothing happened to change my mind. We don't have MUCH idea of what the flavor means, which is why I did my thing so that we could figure it out. Yep, you've got it right. No, I don't believe I've softclaimed any PR; dunno what you're hallucinating there.
Furc's recent posts read like a legitimate Iec-parody.-
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I laughed.zwetschenwasser wrote:furc, games are not tools for you to use to sculpt your own meta.-
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I like CKD's post a lot.Vote: vezo
I reread Sebguer's 6 posts from ages ago, since there seemed to be a disproportionate amount of clamor about them. The Furc policy lynch is terrible, but it doesn't seem proportional to the scrutiny it warranted.-
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OK, well, w/e. I am your slave in the short term.-
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@ Plum -- IIRC, this is what happened.
Beefster posts something.
LL votes Beefster for crap reasons.
Beefster responds with crap.
I vote Beefster for the 2nd crap (Beefster's), since I didn't notice LL's crap the first time.
Then later on, I notice LL's crap and vote him for it.
Possible early game distancing between them if one flips scum idk.-
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Pledging to be CKD's slave so long as he continues to deliver is not problematic.
When I'm scum, I feel a kind of urge to call others out on things I myself am doing (i.e. because I am prototypical scum in those instances). Your tell on Beefster fit that perfectly.-
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I think it mostly indicates that I'm not very confident in my reads and am relatively confident in CKD's.
Why didn't you whine when Soc did the same thing a few pages ago?
Nope, they aren't. However:
1. That doesn't mean they aren't applicable on average and
2. Your vote was either scummy or very bad IMO.
I wish Soc would have an avatar again btw.-
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People are erroneously inferring that Furc's playstyle is a "stance." It's not. It's a technique, albeit a misguided one.-
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@ Friend -- It could be that they think CKD is town for reconsidering on vezo when he'd been under such scrutiny.
I want to vote mothy, but AGar and Friend are there. It makes me uncomfortable....-
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There's that role that has imba investi-powers but dies whenever they post about it in thread. It reminds me of that a little.-
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It's not even the first time it's happened this game. <_<-
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Can revote if someone decides that he is lying 95% chance or greater or whatever.-
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So...did your null track on AGar affect your feelings about him?-
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Null track doesn't clear AGar, but it's probably as close to clearing him as a track is able.
I'm personally guilty of not trusting my negative tracks at times, though.-
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