Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[farside22]

/confirm

[farside22]

It's a bit late for me and I had a long day but the idea of lynching a player we think is scum and teleporting a second person we think may be scum would be a good strategy.
I was reading they were talking about outing the town teleporters and just have them as confirmed town teleport themselves.
I didn't look enough at the rules to see if that was possible but I think outing the teleporter is a bad idea till we get closer to end game. Not lylo but maybe before that. As a townie becomes a teleporter so the good news is there always one confirmed townie.

[farside22]

myko: The problem we are running across is the other universe (now known as U2....or OU) wants to send people they feel are scum in our direction. Their talks are using the teleportor to send scummy people our way. If we don't do the same in return we will have to still read the other game anyways and be bomard by people that were scummy in OU.

[farside22]

vote: EK

She wasn't here discussioning the game concept and was more about jokes.

FOS: DGB

for the same

[farside22]

myko: The problem we are running across is the other universe (now known as U2....or OU) wants to send people they feel are scum in our direction. Their talks are using the teleportor to send scummy people our way. If we don't do the same in return we will have to still read the other game anyways and be bomard by people that were scummy in OU.

I know that this way, both universes will try to mess up the other universe, clearly not understanding that that universe will do the same back! This is why I wanted my post quoted on the other side: it is senseless to shove scummy players between the universes, it only makes both universes more likely to lose against town.

The problem you name could be solved by teleporting the player they sent back to them.

What do you feel would be the point of having a town teleportor? Should they use their ability? Why or why not?

[farside22]

Why in the world of chaos would you want the teleporter to claim when you see this as the mod's sequence:

Order of Actions:
1. New Teleporter is selected if old one was killed or teleported
2. Mafia Kill
3. Town Teleporting or Pulling
4. Mafia Teleporting or Pulling
5. New Teleporter is selected if old one was lynched or pulled.

So you want the mafia to kill a confirmed town just to get another townie confirmed and keep doing this every day?

[farside22]

what are your scumtells when you are scum?

Oh come on this question sucks why should I share my scum tells to hurt me in other games?
I can already hear the people ready to lynch me for the above but telling people your scum tells does hurt you for other games.
idk I range with being quiet, lurky to talkative depending on the game. I do bus my scum partner on many occasions I can think of. I think I jump on cases just with a me too kind of post at times if I feel lost in a game and I don't know where else to go. I notice I don't try to motivate a game and I purposly miss things that are scum tells from my partner if I think they are safe from a lynch or being voted on.
Obviously my scum tell is on a wide range because acting the same in a game means people know you to be scum and use that meta against you.

[farside22]

Looking at things I'm starting to agree with myko in regards to not using the teleporter unless the OU teleports someone to us.
It does keep things balanced and we don't have to worry about the OU unless they are lynching like crazy and telporting up a storm is my only concern.
I noticed a BW forming rather quickly in the OU.

[farside22]

Notice the word 'interrupted'. No, it does not restrict people from participating in the RVS, but people aren't going to bother with the RVS when there is a strategy discussion going on.

Why is RVS important? Isn't it better to have some communication between players and judge players on what they said and vote for them based on that then RVS?

[farside22]

For townies it is.

Damn you for ruining my set up!

Gayle isn't making sense about RVS in any way shape for form but I was willing to see how far she goes to hang herself on the issue.

unvote:
vote: Gayle

The whole RVS over stradegy makes no sense for town.

[farside22]

Because acting antitown as towny to protect your scumplay is not done, and the way I know you, you also wouldn't lurk or do other scummy things to protect your scumplay. Then we get a series of scumtells that I know you would avoid if possible (jumping on a wagon with a "me too") and that you are often bussing seems to be a save thing to say as scum. Further, you keep it very general. I can't see someone who loves the game this much doing this as town. FoS Farside. But pluspoints for actually answering the question as first player.

Notice I said other games. IE people could read this later and use anything I do as scum and say here look what she said in this game and don't tell me people don't do that.
I do lurk you just never saw it. (not that I recall you seeing it) I definately have jumped on a bw as scum with a me too type attitude. I would point to the one game I'm thinking about but it's currently in progress but I was lynched as scum.
I point to a pretty indepth post on how to tell I'm scum and you want to say my answer is safe because scum bussing is commen?
Umm no offense but it's general because I really am an all over the place type player. I feel I did better before my absense as scum then now so maybe I'm just being hard on myself but I really don't think I currently play scum well.

DGB:
Wut?

Someone is asking what my scumtells are (along with everyone else's?)

No way. Why should I tell scum what they should avoid doing?

I don't read it that way at all. He is asking how you act as scum. Not everyone acts the same and people can use it as a reference instead of using the word meta argument.
I just hate it because I never like talking about my scum actions. Never. It's something I hold dear to my heart and don't want to share with the MS world (who do read games and look back on things to the nth degree) signs that I'm scum for later games.

[farside22]

farside22 wrote:

Why is RVS important? Isn't it better to have some communication between players and judge players on what they said and vote for them based on that then RVS?

The point of RVS is to start discussion, and bring out some things to actually start pursuing. A random vote leads to discussion leads to a serious vote. Whereas with this strategy discussion, when it ends you end up with a situation where you have nothing to go on.

What? How the planet of fark to you come to the conclusion that it lead no where?

I happen to find RVS very useful. It gets the game started, it gives you questions to ask, votes and bandwagons to question, etc. With the strategy discussion you might find a basis on which to begin scum hunting (as is the case in universe 2), or you might finish the discussion and gain absolutely no insight as to who is scum (as is the case in this universe).

Really? I happen to be using the info greatly to scum hunt I see others posting points on what others say (points to myko) and yet we havent' gone anywhere.

[farside22]

Won't answer = town

DGB
Raskol
farside

Has answered or supports this idiocy= 5KuMz

evilsnail

Players I declare to be town

Flareon
pops/Boxxy
farside

Did I miss anything?

vote: evilsmail

Myself and fishy answered the question so this logic fails
This post shows that DGB isn't reading the thread at all and the fact she is voting someone who answered the question declaring the person scum is not something I agree with at all.
You know people who fight this hard and call it "pointless and stupid" are more likely scum.

unvote:
vote: Raskol

Fos: DGB
Fos: Gayle

(your comments about stradey talk not providing scum hunting and thinking RVS is better is terrible logic

[farside22]

I have cracked the game.

The 5KuMz are:

1. evilsnail
2. mykonian
3. elvis

Elvis is playing to her scum meta.

I agree with you about EK the rest I disagree with. I haven't seen anything scummy from myko at all. I would have to go and reread evil to say how i feel but so far your reason's don't mess well in my book.

I'm just going to vote for whoever the women in this game think is scum, for now.

*Gives ABR "the look"
I expect better. Move it and post something better mister.

[farside22]

DGB is not reading the thread and posting an incomplete list of players someone that is scum to you?

[farside22]

DGB is not reading the thread and posting an incomplete list of players someone that is scum to you?

In English. please?

In your view if you catch someone who is obviously not reading the thread is that a scum tell in your book?

[farside22]

Agack! Quote tag mishap EBWOP

In your view if you catch someone who is obviously not reading the thread is that a scum tell in your book?

I can be, that's why I'm pestering ABR. I need to take his temperature.

I really want to vote you more now then ever or call you a hypocrite.

[farside22]

I think you're hairsplitting the semantics. She thinks the question is dumb, and no one would answer it. But since someone did, she thinks that person is scummy. It's like saying "Who wants a massclaim" at the beginning of a newbie is a dumb question, because it is, but if someon was idiotic enough to answer the question you'd have caught scum.

Problem with that is 3 people answered the question and she says only 1 person did answer the question and calling them scum for doing so.
Talking about what your scum tell is stupid because........???

So why did you answer the question anyway?

I answered it because I have nothing to hide in this game. I saw no reason not to talk about it for this game. My biggest problem with be those who will use it later in other games.

[farside22]

So really, arguing that this question is antitown, like DGB tried to do, even after saying she caught scum with it is scummy. So is avoiding the question.

I didn't say it was anti-town, I said (and I paraphrase and embellish liberally here) that it was a "time-wasting pit of stirred WIFOM."

How is it WIFOM? If someone is lying don't you ask for links to prove that what they said about how they play as scum is truth or a lie?
Those who state how they act may try to stay way from their own meta. That is the WIFOM. But that means they actually have to try in a game instead of posting next to nothing (EK comes to mind) or following the crowd or hiding while lurkering, blah, blah, blah. Then most of the time scum trip up from talking too much. Either way scum found.

[farside22]

After reading the thread I still can't tell what the strategy is, so can someone tell me.

Pretty please?

I'm confused about it too.
Questions: Gayle talking about RVS over stradgy and scum hunting didn't strike you as a bit scummy in the least?
What's your thoughts on DGB's plays so far?

[farside22]

How is it WIFOM?

I can say that when I'm town, I write in green text, but when I'm scum, I write in red text.

So I'll make all my posts green.

Am I scum? The answer is WIFOM.

If someone is lying don't you ask for links to prove that what they said about how they play as scum is truth or a lie?

[farside22]

Also, I don't like the unqualified statement below where farside pushes elvis to find me scummy (omitting any specifics), and elvis responds "not loving it" with no rhyme or reason:

What's your thoughts on DGB's plays so far?

Not loving it. However, I <3 her.

Despite elvis' lurking being perhaps attributable to some computer virus, I maintain my scum read on her.

First of all I asked EK's thought on your play. I already stated I am not loving your play thus far and even said I wanted to vote you. I felt EK's response since she has been around wasn't good so I was asking feedback to see if there is a connection or not between two people I find scummy in some way
Also did you happen to idk actually look at EK's profile to see if she is lurking or not around the site at all?

[farside22]

Okay so raskol doesn't seem to be defending EK's points against him from what I can see. And yes I do see scum that telegraph a weak case and not vote on it as a scum tell.
However I do more often then not see scum proclaim themselves town early like EK did. Even though all Raskol did was point to one paragraph and highlight without saying much about his reasoning I can see why EK thought it was OMGUS.
ABR doesnt' feel town to me. Call it gut but I'm just thinking of our last game together and he feels off to me.
Right now I'm keeping my vote on Raskol because he didn't say much till now when there was pressure on him with some votes and when people don't respond to votes I find it more unnerving then those that do.

[farside22]

Mmmmm. I've heard the "claiming town" argument; it was used against me once when I mentioned something; in context, EK's context seems similar (and yes, i

was

Town in that case) (and my accuser was scum, but that's another barrel of monkeys. In any case, it is

not

a strong tell.

I did it as scum in a game I think that's why I can see what people are talking about but so far it's minor in comparison.

[farside22]

why do you have a category labled xRECONERx/ace5993?

I think it's supposed to be neutral but I don't see raskol as town.

[farside22]

EK what do you think is the best stradegy for how to use the teleporter for this game?

[farside22]

okay deffinately not seeing this as EK town play now.
Yeah it's meta based and orginally I saw she was absent from MS so her lack of comments was expected but now I don't see this as the overly vocal EK that is typically town.

unvote:
vote: EK

[farside22]

How was my last post somehow anti-town or "not playing to my town meta"?

My early lurking was due to computer virus and the sucky site problems. Since I got a chance to catch up, I have been here, so this BS about me lurking or not playing to my town meta is such crapp. With TWO P's.

Unless I'm completely off my rocker in another game (which who knows I could be) I see you much more verbose in your thoughts and opinions on things. You talk a lot and have more details in your post then you have had here.

[farside22]

@Rhinox:

OJ wrote:
So why did you answer the question anyway?

I answered it because I have nothing to hide in this game. I saw no reason not to talk about it for this game. My biggest problem with be those who will use it later in other games.

[farside22]

Rhinox is underwhelming since his catchup post is just a case about myko (with some sucking up to dgb thrown in). Doesn't seem like he read the thread, but wanted to aim a case at myko.

Did you read the thread? I didn't see you do a write up when you came back from your computer issues except to post a case against raskol. It's also part of the reason I find you scum.
No catch up post. Just comments and nothing really of substance except the case on raskol.

[farside22]

you talking about this post:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76#2084376

[farside22]

Will have post for this game later today.

[farside22]

I'm going back and reading people in isolation at the moment. So this post doesnt' become so long it makes people's eye's cross I'm posting my first group here. I'm still reading others.

CSL

- So far this is typical CSL play. Seems better then my other game (which doesn't say much)

DrippingGoofball

- DGB had her list wrong on who answered the question but hasn't responded to her vote on evil in lew of this info
DGB post is more evasive and reasoning like this post seems very flawed:
mykonian is scum for his post 211.

In particular: "If you have a mindset where catching scum is pointless, you are scum. I am certain this was a major scumslip." - this is so many layers of wrong it's like a 5-story high lasagna.

As much as it pains me to find elvis scum in this game, I'm not averse to lynching her first.

Where I catch DGB being a hypocrite:

In your view if you catch someone who is obviously not reading the thread is that a scum tell in your book?

I can be, that's why I'm pestering ABR. I need to take his temperature.

DGB backtracks here:

Though one. I'm still holding elvis under observation, and I'm under the impression that raskol is making himself relatively scarce, which is a bad, bad sign.

Raskol wrote

:
Filed under full of shit townie atm.

^^^ says a townie.

Here reason's why

I think the scum should just come forward and name themselves. We need to simplify things.

DBG going for myko based on plum's comment. The plum is town comment makes me sudder do to our last game together and that said comment

The next vote here makes absolutely no sense what'so-ever

Now I'm back to being sketchy on your alignment. CSL? Raskol? Yeah, maybe Raskol. Your reluctance for vote for a lurkerscum like ABR is jarring, given your willingness to vote CSL, whose case is, if I recall correctly, a policy lynch for lurking.

THAT is inconsistent in a scummy way.

unvote, vote: mykonian

elvis_knits

- Things like this make me think EK scum

ahahaha

What is that I smell? OMGUS?

If you need a wall of quotes/text to point out your flaws, I can do that. (post coming)

Regarding DGB, I'm not trying to waffle. I'm undecided on her. I don't have to be decided on every person at all times. I explained what I am suspicious of (the evilsnail reasoning) and why my read is not clear-cut on her. I am trying to decide, hence my questioning her about evilsnail. And I'm not going to be pushed by you or anyone else to make a decision on her or anyone else.

Usually not this evasive when giving reads on players.
Here page where she says she read the game and gives input was very subpar for her.

I disagree with the reason's on why the gayle wagon started there. Gayle thought stradgey talk didn't help with scum hunting which I disagree with and her saying that RVS helps promote scum hunting over stradegy talk was above and beyond my thoughts on the game.
In regards to EK's list:
I can't even understand how OJ is town on this list. Or ABR perhaps scum should be exported and not voted for. Gayle town for wanting to scum hunt but not doing it is town why?

Like farside. Every game I have played with her lately she thinks I am scum, except spyrex's game. In spyrex's game she defended me and thought I was town. That's the only game I was scum in. This type of thing is important for people to know.

Bahhahahahahaha is it me or does this read. Don't listen to farside about me she has no clue about my game play. This is such a scum move it makes me hurt

Wait why are you voting for ABR?

evilsnail

- OMG I just read evilsnail and this sounds like what EK said

(evil)
Well, I felt like, in 109 (quoted below), you were sorta drumming up support for the Gayle wagon without committing to it. That can be a scum move. I mean, there were only like three votes on Gayle at the time, so there's no reason to withhold it.

Ek said:

So when Raskol chimes in with post 109, echoing the exact sentiments of the three people wagoning her, it is definitely adding support to the sucky Gayle wagon, and in a cowardly way since he's not backing it up with a vote on Gayle. This is a scum move designed to "test the waters" and see if the wagon has legs... see if other people are going to buy this crap.

I'm not sure why evil likes his vote on raskol at this point when raskol did post something in regards to evils comments about gayle
Plus I hate when people follow my logic

He seems to be defending EK a lot so far which I don't like. I wonder why this sort of play is going on between them and it sets my scumdar off.

Why is EK town to you evil?

Albert B. Rampage

- ABR is known as activly lurking and offering no content. He promises more information although post 21 has some merit I have seen him really enjoy playing town in a game and be vocal after being attacked and he doesn't just vote randomly like he is doing in this game.




So far at this point I haven't see a reason to change my vote off of EK.
DGB is either off her rocker or scum. I have seen her be erractic and all but her play feels off and she isn't making any sense to me this game so far.

[farside22]

Don't forget EK just ignored my post and focused on the farside doesn't know how to read me part.
Doesn't respond to the questions or comments I made in regards to her.

[farside22]

Don't forget EK just ignored my post and focused on the farside doesn't know how to read me part.
Doesn't respond to the questions or comments I made in regards to her.

I didn't see anything that hasn't already been covered or wasn't meta-WIFOM bullshit based on my supposed lurking or WIFOM comments about the tone or length of my posts.

EK questions I asked:
If you answered please quote it

Wait why are you voting for ABR?

I can't even understand how OJ is town on this list. Or ABR perhaps scum should be exported and not voted for. Gayle town for wanting to scum hunt but not doing it is town why?

Also if that ABR vote is for what I saw ealier on you very next post you are just about to reinforce my vote.

ABR I'm seriously conteplating kicking you in the nards if you don't start doing something besides following in this game.
So far your play has been horrid this game and yes I'm thinking of our last game currently going when I say this.

[farside22]

elvis is town. You can take it to the bank.

Farside is drinking Kool-Aid.

So nice of you to say Kool_aid. It is full of sugar but has nothing to do with alchol

Tell me about your back and forth a bit more on Raskol. When did EK suddenly become town for you?

[farside22]

And you are twisting my words about Gayle. I never said "Gayle is town for wanting to scum hunt but not doing that." Because that's not what Gayle did. Do you think Gayle is not scum hunting? Do you think Gayle is scum?

You had people town/scum on a list with no reason. I going off of your orginal view on Gayle and wondering where you get a town read.

You got the ABR correct and I appologize for the lack of clarity.

OJ: just went to look at her post in issolation I think I just forgot about her because she isn't been vocal this game.


Okay I got the impression from one comment that you were voting ABR because of myko I see I mistaken on this.

I'm still not thrilled with your don't listen to farside argument. Granted I called you town in a game you were scum but when people agrue meta and I dont' know the meta orginally I will question the person making that argument. I was also eventually in that game more against your lynch based on the cop claim and day 1 push it was scummy even if your scum partner was part of the push.
As for the current game we cant' discuss. I will say I cant' discuss it.

As for Gayle I think she has been lurkerish till recently. She says says the game is a bit much for her but idk I wouldn't say a town feel for her.

I'm going to finish my read of the rest of the players here.

[farside22]

@DGB why did you vote Evil when fishy, myself and gayle aswered the question as well about what you do as scum

fishythefish

- following (looks to post 92). Lots of stradegy talk from fishy and finally we get to some scum hunting more with Gayle. I wish his vote on raskol came with quotes on why he thinks the things he does on raskol.
The case at large should be looked at as it just idk seems off (gut). Catch up post a bit doesn't seem to say much

- Liking Gayle a lot more. Makes a decent case against pops
- I agree with EK about publishing townreads. pops says we want to help the other universe with their pulling – no, we really, really don’t. That seems like an unlikely thought for town – it clearly hurts us if they pull well.
- Flare’s vote for myk is rather horrible. I see the passage of townreads theory as pretty null (with the exception of the above). I don’t understand how you’d get mykscum from it.
- myk’s slip looks bad. @myk: what was going through your head?

More like good job, I agree and flares vote but I just feel touching on subjects and not really scum hunting in this post

The defense of myko isn't unheard of but his flip flop post on explaining it so much.....idk it's weird

flareonage

- flare points out the talks in the OU about them wanting to screw us over. RVS the fishy
How weird is this statement:

Yeah but scum is influencing all that strategy talk and they're gonna push for the town to do what they want.

I think the teleporter should just keep to themselves and do whatever they want with their action

How does he know who is influencing the strategy talk and why does he say scum is doing it?

Another vote this time OMGUS to pops

typical flare post following others

I completely agree with Rhinox. Mykonian is just as guilty of what he is accusing Raskol of doing.

@Mykonian: Why did you ignore that point of Rhinox's argument? It seemed like the most important point to me

gayle

@EK: This is the post I refer to that bothers me about GAyle

As for an alternative direction, I'd prefer if the strategy discussion hadn't interrupted the rvs.

I also don't understand how someone who claims they don't know how to carry on after RVS stage wants to push the issue of RVS

contradict much?

I happen to find RVS very useful. It gets the game started, it gives you questions to ask, votes and bandwagons to question, etc.

This is true. I used to whine about RVS too, until people started telling me to come up with an alternative. I honestly have no idea what else to do, which is why I said I was going to shut up and wait for the strategy discussion to go somewhere.

post a quick comment without much to back it up.

The pops case actually is quiet good.
definate improvement in the game
You know what for someone who wanted to talk RVS she has completely flipped around in her scum hunting and I retract my previous comments about her.

mykonian

- myko talks about scumhunting will win the game but talks about stragdy of the game right after

interesting:

Evilsnail: I am not going to answer my own question if nobody wants the answer

.

a few people answered this question why refuse to answer yourself?

Well you did answer in this post actually so the comment leaves me in a lot of pondering

myko why did you vote from DGB to raskol and with such a hypocritcal statement as this:

You completely forgot what you did with fishy, and went for the next target, with a less then spectacular case. Where are you going to run next?

I love how myko says he didn't want to read the ou but clearly is.

myko why would you switch you vote to CSL?

The case on DGB is terrible. Speaking from what you posted as a case I can point to a time DGB said scum day talked and she was town. It's a null tell.

Lots of defending from myko and I didn't find a case that was really well thought out excpet raskol case.

ojanen

- OJ has said very little this game but what she does say has shown scum hunting and reasoning.

plum

- mmm not sure what to think of plum. I can see the case on myko but I wonder why she dropped the DGB case.
I think the fact that plum has only made 2 post I'm going to go with uncertain read right now.


So back to my main point. Flare who was scum that was talking about stradegy?

unvote:
vote: flareonage

Still 3 more players to read thru but this needs to be addressed!

[farside22]

But yeah farside is total town. So is elvis.

Mykonian and ABR are still scum. Mykonian is the current vote leader, though. I don't care which one of those scumbags dies first.

unvote:
vote: DGB

She gets all up on myko and that slip that plum posted but says nothing in regards to flame's comment.

I'm going into the ABR school of scum hunting and taking the head off the snake here.

[farside22]

@Myko where do you see in her vote she is using gut to justify the vote?

mykonian wrote:
This is why I wanted my post quoted on the other side: it is senseless to shove scummy players between the universes, it only makes both universes more likely to lose against town.

Care to explain what you meant by the bolded, Myko?

Brilliant.

If I may have everyone's attention, please: Plum is town.

unvote, vote: mykonian

But this isn't a scumslip, this is just an incorrect sentence. I can't see how this is a scumslip. The whole argument is to make both towns play strategically better. A scumslip would show I have no interest in making the town play better. But I do!

Haha, I see you have your bases covered to make it look like what you decided to frame as a scumslip from me, is worse that your own

bona fide

scumslip!

DIE SCUM

[/quote]

[farside22]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 1 ) Rhinox
DrippingGoofball ( 4 ) mykonian Albert B. Rampage popsofctown farside22
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
flareonage ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 2 ) Raskol elvis_knits
mykonian ( 3 ) flareonage plum DrippingGoofball
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) gayle
Raskol ( 3 ) evilsnail ojanen fishythefish
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 1 ) CSL
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

@Myko where do you see in her vote she is using gut to justify the vote?

mykonian wrote:
This is why I wanted my post quoted on the other side: it is senseless to shove scummy players between the universes, it only makes both universes more likely to lose against town.

Care to explain what you meant by the bolded, Myko?

Brilliant.

If I may have everyone's attention, please: Plum is town.

unvote, vote: mykonian

But this isn't a scumslip, this is just an incorrect sentence. I can't see how this is a scumslip. The whole argument is to make both towns play strategically better. A scumslip would show I have no interest in making the town play better. But I do!

Haha, I see you have your bases covered to make it look like what you decided to frame as a scumslip from me, is worse that your own

bona fide

scumslip!

DIE SCUM

[/quote]

[farside22]

Sorry I'm not bitting on this. First I have DGB clearly not reading the game at hand. She then calls ABR on not reading which is hypocritcal of her.
She attacks evil for answering the question about what you do as scum but doesnt' attack fishy or myself for answering that same question
Attacks myko for asking the question.
Attacks EK for meta then backs off without a reason.
Declares Flare town and raskol is agreeing with her even with this quote and after everyone's slip comment with myko

Yeah but scum is influencing all that strategy talk and they're gonna push for the town to do what they want. I think the teleporter should just keep to themselves and do whatever they want with their action

Flares reasoning is completely trying to just fluff it as nothing.

Also I will note DGB tried horribly to discredit me in my comments while adding nothing to what I said.
Awesome stuff.
I'm calling DGB/Raskol/Flare scum team with either pops (for defending but saying she wasn't defending DGB comment) or EK for saying I can't read DGB and offers next to nothing in regards to her.

[farside22]

Also farside - I have read every post, save a few about teleportation strategy which don't interest me for the moment.

ORLY!!

@DGB why did you vote Evil when fishy, myself and gayle aswered the question as well about what you do as scum

Didn't you answer by saying why you wouldn't answer it? That doesn't count. I was looking for answers from scum trying to manipulate how they may be being read. I missed Fishy's and Gayle's answer. Did they actually answer that question seriously? If they did, they're up in my scumlist. Can you point out to me the post where they are detailing their own scumtells? Thanks ahead.

Never mind I brought up 2 other occasions before this that me, fishy and gayle all answered this question pages ago and now she's asking for quotes.

This description is entirely accurate but for my backing off EK on gut read, which should be obvious. What's your point, farside? There is no point.

I'm so glad you agree with me that your scum.

[farside22]

Can everybody who is not high off their ass come and vote ABR?

TIA.

No DGB is scum.

[farside22]

Stop smoking, farside!

I don't smoke. Stop trying to belittle my comments.

*I want to say this doesnt' mean harshly I mean this as stop trying to make it sound I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about*

Note: was that worse or better?

[farside22]

Which player was talking about policy lyching? I saw someone bring it up but I can't recall who?
Cookie for anyone who tells me.

[farside22]

Which player was talking about policy lyching? I saw someone bring it up but I can't recall who?
Cookie for anyone who tells me.

POPS talking about lynching CSL

Cookie?

*throws a bone at the cute dog instead*

Okay EK I will make you a deal that will sound really familiar. If I'm wrong about DGB not only do I get a muzzle for a week but I agree with ABR scum and bow down to your read on him.

[farside22]

If I'm wrong about DGB not only do I get a muzzle for a week but I agree with ABR scum and bow down to your read on him.

Brace yourself.

I heard that before.
So far the case on ABR is what he lurked too much and aggreed to much therefore he is scum?

[farside22]

If I'm wrong about DGB not only do I get a muzzle for a week but I agree with ABR scum and bow down to your read on him.

I approve of this.

[farside22]

EK & DGB (aka the doublemint twins)
What will be your view if your wrong and ABR is town?

EK: I'm really surprised you see pops as possible scum and don't note that little comment from pops on her comment in regards to DGB. I see that as a flub from scum who is like whoops I said too much I should be careful and not pair myself with my scum partner.

[farside22]

ABR outline your case on why you think DGB is scum stat!
I will be equally hard on you on this case as on them.

[farside22]

What will be your view if your wrong and ABR is town?

The only possible view is that my read is wrong and that ABR does little more than active lurks, does not hunt scum, and screams I'm scum when he's town.

What was the point of this question?

What's going to be your view if you're wrong and I'm town? Your view of elvis? Your view of ABR? Your view of anyone else?

EK would move up as more town then scum. Pops would still be questionable. ABR would look more scum. myko would look more scum. Fishy stays close to the top of my radar.
my town reads of gayle, oj stay the same.
Flare still unchanged because his comment and answers on the quote looks like someone with inside info and he is not town no matter how many ways you try to sway it.

[farside22]

ABR outline your case on why you think DGB is scum stat!
I will be equally hard on you on this case as on them.

He wrote his case in post 529.

Didn't you write your own case?

yes I did write a case. Why is EK sayin that all ABR is saying that DGB is scum and nothing else then?

[farside22]

ABR outline your case on why you think DGB is scum stat!
I will be equally hard on you on this case as on them.

He wrote his case in post 529.

Didn't you write your own case?

yes I did write a case. Why is EK sayin that all ABR is saying that DGB is scum and nothing else then?

[farside22]

@EK I'm talking about these quotes from pops in regards to DGB

I think you're hairsplitting the semantics. She thinks the question is dumb, and no one would answer it. But since someone did, she thinks that person is scummy. It's like saying "Who wants a massclaim" at the beginning of a newbie is a dumb question, because it is, but if someon was idiotic enough to answer the question you'd have caught scum.

I'm not defending DGB on all points. I really don't know what to think of her erratic play atm, it's bizarre.

I just didn't like your saying that she can't think the question is stupid and still find scum with it. She can. But yes, I know that you are arguing the question isn't dumb

@farside: I wasn't defending DGB in general, I was just opposing that one point where mykonian suggested she was contradicting herself. "she hasn't noticed that 3 people answered the question"+"scum skim threads" is legit formula scumhunting, agreed.

Write now I'm concerned DGB is going for "insanity plea scumhunting" by voting evilsnail on flimsy logic and encouraging e_k to skip the thread and vote with her, then shouting she already knows who the 5cumZ are when she ought to be defending herself.

unvote, vote DGB

[farside22]

yes I did write a case. Why is EK sayin that all ABR is saying that DGB is scum and nothing else then?

Because that's pretty much what he's doing, and pretty much the case came AFTER he started his "DGB is scum" mantra.

As you can see, he only picked from one game, where I was scum and he was town. He didn't bother checking games where I'm town - why? Because he went looking for facts that would support his preconceived notion that I am scum in this game, he was not trying to actually find out my alignment. If he were trying to find out my alignment, he'd be comparing with my behavior as town.

And farside I think you've seen my play enough that you should know better.

This is a valid point in regards to ABR and his case on you.

As for me knowning better your the one saying your reading the game and clearly missing things. So far I don't see you as town (duh) things feel off about you from the start and your proclimantion of flare town to now going down low makes no sense. Your never this erractic about your reads on people.

[farside22]

@ABR write up your case on everyone and your views. My arguement and discussion between the bopsy twins is entertaining to me as I enjoy the thrill of watching scum backtrack and not answer questions.

[farside22]

And also, trust me, knowing dgb, if she wins as scum again she's going to make a huge deal about it and none of us will ever hear the end of it. She has no life and brags on the forum even months after a game is done. Trust me you do not want dgb to get away when it's so crystal clear that she's scum.

This has nothing to do with whether DGB is scum or town. Having a player brag is no big deal. That sounds really like a personal issue more then game player mister.

[farside22]

So you're saying pops went from defending DGB to voting her when he got called on it. Which makes you think they are buddies.

Maybe.

Bingo! Pops reaction was way off. It definately came across as wait no I'm not defending I find her scummy see look to me.

[farside22]

As for me knowning better your the one saying your reading the game and clearly missing things.

Yeah - I do miss things sometimes. I don't remember the two players you named as listing their scumtells. Pretty sure evilsnail was much more wordy about it. I do recall, when I made that post calling evilsnail on it, I stated that I might have missed others players, and ask that if I did, it be brought to my attention. I wrote that at the time because I was in a rush and scanned quickly rather than read carefully.

See here where I asked "Did I miss anything?"

look 4 post below that were I tell you exactly what you missed and didn't respond to.

[farside22]

It's on her end. See how she voted me for no reason before.

Because I take time to get into a game I'm scum? This is my most recently completed game:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12807

If you can tell me the difference between that game and this game I will consider the merit of your conclusion.

The first difference I note is how you buddied up to all the girls here saying you would follow them and what they said. I don't see that in that game at all.

[farside22]

Finishing off my isolation read of ABR's game he pretty much said next to nothing and only followed once in the game.
He wasn't much of a driving force in the game but I think as I said the buddying and following is a big difference between that game and this one.

[farside22]

As for my scumtells (completed games only):
Internally, I worry like fuck about nearly every post I write. I imagine, and often believe, that in this post I'm dropping some massive cast-iron scumtell, and will be lynched immediately. Externally, I think (hope, pray) that it's rather more subtle. As scum, I put more emphasis on cold hard logic, and less on gut feeling. I tend to think about pairings more. On the one occasion I've actually had a scumpartner, I bussed him hugely (but this, I think, was largely due to circumstance).
In many games as town, I try to achieve a state of stream-of-conciousness posting, in which I am totally transparent on whatever subject I am adressing, and obviously so - the idea is that I express natural modes of thought better than can be faked. When I feel I have done this well, people tend to have town reads on me. This obvious honesty is something I have not yet been able to fake as scum (although I don't manage this in anywhere near all my town games).
This is particularly easy early on, when there is little information to analyse, and artificial thoughts are harder to construct. In the vast majority (I suspect all) of my last 7 or so games I played from the start, at least one person has expressed a town read on me within 7 or so pages. Since I haven't started a game as scum, I can't say whether this will be true then, but I doubt it.

[farside22]

Sorry for that I just went to go look for it and I found it odd that not only did fish talk about his scum tells but talks about his town tells in that post.
But he attacks myko for the question too which seems really off to me.

[farside22]

Finishing off my isolation read of ABR's game he pretty much said next to nothing and only followed once in the game.
He wasn't much of a driving force in the game but I think as I said the buddying and following is a big difference between that game and this one.

I'm not sure how much credence I would grant ABR-supplied material to meta ABR.

I was in a game where ABR was town and the game is still on going. He was admittley very low key just making comments from the start of the game and then wham he started going strong when he felt strongly about scum. It's why I asked to see a valid case from him in regards to you.

[farside22]

I'm voting dgb because of:

-her touchiness in this game that is inexistant when she is town
-her attacking whoever is convenient for her
-her false representations
-lack of any real content or scumhunting, but then attacks other players for things she isn't doing
-attacking players who she thinks have something personal against her to "preemptive" them so to speak
-making the same bullshit accusations that she does as scum

Just off the top of the head.

Quote where you see this happening.

[farside22]

Touchiness is not a scum tell. It's subject to too much WIFOM. If you attack someone for no reason and they get pissed, then you can go "OMG you're touchy! Must be scum!!"

This is true. I get very touchy about certain players and how they act.

[farside22]

ABR, come up with some reasons that are not based in meta or WIFOM.

Since DGB goes off of meta with some players is this really fair to be biased on others that do the same.
The WIFOM is granted.

[farside22]

God help me I think I want to vote myko now.

Myko you critisized me for what I said about how I am as scum but praise fishy for saying how he is as scum and town and call him town for that post?
Seriously I read it as lots of back and forth with no meat on his true tell.

[farside22]

I absolutely don't like how fast Fishy went from town to scum on DGB's list. Esspecially since it is on evidence that was already there. It mostly seems to be because DGB feels the need to be consistent with her "everyone who answers the question is scum".

Trying to be consistent = scum. Esspecially for DGB who seems to be never bother by it.

That's not my point at all. I'm talking about fishy not DGB

[farside22]

Internally, I worry like fuck about nearly every post I write. I imagine, and often believe, that in this post I'm dropping some massive cast-iron scumtell, and will be lynched immediately

. Externally, I think (hope, pray) that it's rather more subtle.

As scum, I put more emphasis on cold hard logic, and less on gut feeling.

I tend to think about pairings more.

On the one occasion I've actually had a scumpartner, I bussed him hugely

(but this, I think, was largely due to circumstance).

idk I range with being quiet, lurky to talkative depending on the game.

I do bus my scum partner on many occasions I can think of.

I think I jump on cases just with a me too kind of post at times if I feel lost in a game and I don't know where else to go.

I notice I don't try to motivate a game and I purposly miss things that are scum tells from my partner if I think they are safe from a lynch or being voted on

.

Obviously my scum tell is on a wide range because acting the same in a game means people know you to be scum and use that meta against you

.

So in bold I found comman things that fishy and I brought up in regards to what we do or feel when scum.
underlined is what is just more of a feel that players have on themselves.
In other words I'm not see much of a difference. I was more quiet, lurky to talkative which if you see me as scum any time soon you would see as fact.
DGB will tell you how hard I will bus my scum partner this is no joke here.
Saying it's comman scum tell when even fishy says the same thing is BS.

[farside22]

Farside, I have trouble to hunt scum based on meta anyway. I personally can't use the tells that are given anyway. The idea is to see how exactly someone answers, which could be a good way to start an investigation.

So I don't need to confirm anything if the answers are actually true. I need for example Raskol's no answer, Your, lets face it, reluctant (but as in the reaction, it was the first = pluspoints) answer etc.

Way to do the back stroke.

God who the hell is town again?

OJ where are you!!!!!!????

[farside22]

okay lets go over your "scum tells"

It has been some time that I was scum. During my games a scum I now know I was easy to catch, but people haven't allways found out how. I used to fakeclaim pretty well, but exactly the care with which breadcrumbs were placed showed that I was scum. Also, the use of PBPA to attack someone was something I used to reduce pressure on myself, and sadly, with some succes. Although people have never caught this, I used to manipulate peoples stances gradually, which resulted in some interesting discussions Smile The reason people went after me mostly was staying of the lynch-bandwagon, and sometimes arguing against it. But I have seen people lynch me for that regardless of my role Smile

fake claiming doesn't matter too much in this game.
The PBPA thing excuses you from not doing it in this game.
vote wise:
DrippingGoofball ( 4 ) mykonian, Albert B. Rampage, popsofctown, farside22.
You were the firs to vote but I saw you do a slight defense of DGB in saying she is a gut player. So do you know what DGB play is as a general rule? Have you played with DGB at all?

Also you missed my point about fishy and my claim.
Are comments are pretty similar in idea's so I don't see a difference. You want to use those quotes I brought up to show what difference you are talking about.

[farside22]

mod, can we have a votecount?

PS: farside, are you mad at me that I can't see you are town?

Why don't you see me as town?

[farside22]

sorry, you misunderstand me.

I had the feeling the previous series of posts are because you think I am to stupid or scum to see you are town. TBH, after that answer (which had the positive being the first, the negative the reluctancy), the only thing that really stood out is your taking sides for ABR.

So I don't know what you are. Though the previous posts (see previous alinea) felt towny.

I think I want to cry.
Did you take sides with ABR at one point or did I misread something DGB stated about you?
I tore apart your views on how to tell you were scum and you didn't respond.
I don't agree that fishy is town.
ABR is and can be an UTR player. I see him come out more when he's town and has a valid case.
Right now I'm not impressed tbh but I can't shake my feeling of DGB and her play this game. Call it a cross roads.
Also I'm starting to feel that ABR could be just basing a lot of this on personal feeling over actually seeing DGB as scum.
Where as I see DGB being more all over the place then she typically is.

[farside22]

@EK: What is your current view on DGB? Why did you chance your stance from maybe there is a link with pops and DGB to calling pops on that post I refered to?

[farside22]

Gayle is my hero and makes me love her more now then ever in this game.

unvote:
vote: pops

I will tell you why I don't see ABR as scum. First I have seen ABR not post much as town in the begining. I asked him to lay out a case and I am leaning on personal issues between him and DGB.
That said I would go for a pops lynch based on her comments towards DGB, not offering much in convo, following others and well I think she is scum.

[farside22]

Why the change farside? None of those arguments are new, at all. Just Gayle has posted support for popswagon and made it look like it has legs.

"Following others" is pretty hypocritical for a me too post with a single sentence of your own analysis.

"not offering much in convo" is just wrong. I've posted plenty of content in this game.

DGB is one of those players that 9 times out of 10 I'm completely wrong on my read of her. I take some of the things she says and think where the hell is she coming from. To her outright calling me scum on some vote that makes perfect sense to me. Frankly if you look at our past usually calls me scum when I'm town so part of my feel on DGB is just that more gut then substance. Oh sure I can point to things and they feel off. But the ABR/DGB love fest just reads as two players that have personal issues with each other. That's not scummy there. Her not reading the game and saying she is and calling ABR on it while doing the same. Absolutely 100% hypocritical.
Does this make me thing less of DGB in some ways, but I have that niggling and part of it comes from your post and comments that tells me I'm barking up the wrong tree and should look to you.

[farside22]

I dislike lining up lynches. What makes ABR scum if DGB is town as opposed to a townie with a bad read?

There is a game that we (EK/myself) are both currently in that I can't discuss further except to say I made a deal there too. It's more of a joke then serious.
But for me it's EK seems to think I'm not listening to her and I feel the same about her not listening to me.
It may be the only reason I started leaning town on EK as we never listen to each other till later.

[farside22]

CSL: I just noticed you have not vote on anyone or opinion on anything.
Care to state a case on anyone or who you find to be scum and why would be nice.

[farside22]

ugh. powers up the engergy*
case coming post stat.

[farside22]

Long post incoming:

You have no content

Quote:
What the crap? I have been making tons of game related posts the whole game

Quote:
I subjectively declare that it isn't content. Physician, defend thyself

pops: Talks stragedy .

Makes a case on gayle in regards to her not really wanting to talk about the stradegy
Ask gayle a question.
one liner
one liner
one liner
votes gayle with no content and mutal love with fishy
strat talk
more strat talk
Declares gayle scum because she doesn't want to talk about strat and miscontrudes her comment
more strat talk
goes through flares comment with some sarcasm and opinion mostly
mod request
talks to OU
quotes OU
one liner
strat talk
Ask gayle a question about strat (I call this goading a player)
strat talk
Votes flare for sin number 43
complaining
Role fishing here:

@other universe:

He has very few posts, are you claiming universe masons bud?

I'm getting more content out of him.

defends DGB here:

I think you're hairsplitting the semantics. She thinks the question is dumb, and no one would answer it. But since someone did, she thinks that person is scummy. It's like saying "Who wants a massclaim" at the beginning of a newbie is a dumb question, because it is, but if someon was idiotic enough to answer the question you'd have caught scum.

backtracks here:

I'm not defending DGB on all points. I really don't know what to think of her erratic play atm, it's bizarre.

I just didn't like your saying that she can't think the question is stupid and still find scum with it. She can. But yes, I know that you are arguing the question isn't dumb

@farside: I wasn't defending DGB in general, I was just opposing that one point where mykonian suggested she was contradicting herself. "she hasn't noticed that 3 people answered the question"+"scum skim threads" is legit formula scumhunting, agreed.

Write now I'm concerned DGB is going for "insanity plea scumhunting" by voting evilsnail on flimsy logic and encouraging e_k to skip the thread and vote with her, then shouting she already knows who the 5cumZ are when she ought to be defending herself.

unvote, vote DGB

I think I'm leading towards the elvis side of the spectrum atm. Raskol seems genuinely cranky in a townie way. Elvis just isn't all that impressive.

So enlightening here ^ no rhyme, no real reason. I think cracy and umpimpressive and only talking abour rask and ek on this one. Why?

talks about more players here:

I didn't have to vote DGB to prove I wasn't defending her. I did have to vote her in an attempt to get her to calm down and defend herself or act sane. It didn't really work, she's still really enigmatic. Overall, I still think her play is scummy.

Alright, since someone has me longposting anyway....

My gut says Raskol is town, I wonder if he comes off that way in every game he plays though. A lot of the points made against him, to my head though, are logical. E_k participation and involvement still feels a little low this game. Yeah, that's not a powerful case E_k, but I'm not voting on it either.

I don't see myko scum at all. At the very worst, he's a misguided townie who isn't hunting scum effectively. But he's scumhunting like crazy and engaging lots of people in dialogue, so even if he's wrong on things, I think he's town

Nothing but meta and gut. Now evidence, no quotes to back any of this up. so forth, ect.

Breaks down why she feels a town list doesn't help the town and helps the scum

LOL OMG VIGSLIP!!!!11111111111111


Everyone in this thread is being hilariously hypocritical. If it was such a horrible mistake that town couldn't make, then why did everyone in the thread except plum read over it and not notice?

Looks at front of page. Isn't this an open game? I may have missed the sarcasm but this doesn't make sense

Oh good scum talk of policy lynching instead of scum hunting.

I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays.

Not familiar with ABR's play. I wouldn't call someone "lurkerscum" unless they lurk and additionally have shown a scumtell. Where's the scumtell on Albert?

The misrep vote:

That is, try to hold me off with a promise to "figure out" what went through your head as you made a post like a day ago so you can wait and see if I get distracted and forget you uber-misrepped me?

unvote, vote: FishytheFish

unvote now

voting Ek

The second time I read that (in farside's post), that left a really bad taste in my mouth. The "This type of thing is important for people to know" feels really manipulative.

Anyway, this is Tier 1 ad hominem, and the last time I saw ad hom was scum, it's in my black book. vote: e_k. Though I'm up for a CSL policy lynch when anyone else is. (or is policy teleporting better[?])

reason ad hominem?

Really?

mykonian, I don't know why I bother explaining this to scum, I guess it's more for the rest of the players. farside may not make any sense at all and have her facts all topsy-turvy. In evaluating her alignment you have to learn to look beyond the actual words and arguments she's making.

She's town, so drop it. My farside-meta is solid.

So one was arguing earlier about town list. What happened?

If there is one thing I'm good for, it's to read zwet's alignment.

I can tell you here that he's town in this game.

This has been echoing all game. Which is part of why I'd like to see DGB hang from a tree.

By who and certainly not you.

..... ok, your overtly committing the very thing ABR and I are onto you for. Elvis, at the least, is trying. I give votes to players that seem to want them.

vote:DGB

Yest this just says exactly why you find DGB scum right here.

1. Oh PLEASE. I'm more than allowed to make offtopic posts when I'm nearly leading the thread in content. You can't possibly think I need avatar comments to keep from getting prodded ITT.

Bahahahahahahahahahahah Sorry I think I talk that prise right now followed by EK.

2. At the point in time I made that post shooting down the "bad questions don't bear good fruit" tell, I hadn't made up my mind on DGB. I did notice an argument from mykonian that was flawed though, so I shot it down. I don't just let flawed arguments get used against any player. Doesn't matter who the target is.

Really where?


I tried not to be saracastic and stoped posting about every strat or one liner after awhile that had no merrit. But lets go with the strongest scum tells.

Talks about policy lynching over scum hunting. Gets defensive when farside mentions defending of DGB. Only built 2 cases on her own that didn't follow anyone. After that it was follow to EK, follow to DGB and for pops to say I'm following anyone I would like to point out I state suspicion on her with her comments toward DGB pages ago.
Most of the EK/DGB and ABR votes have no substance at all. Saying EK is using Ad hom. (I hate this term by the way).
When you do show up you say nothing about the quotes I provided till EK asked.
In shorter terms for the lazy
policy lyched comment, lack of scum hunting, following more times and players then I care to count, doesnt' drive her own case or opinion based on the game, and been more quiet these last few days of conversation except to slip in a vote on DGB or EK without much says sliding by scum.

[farside22]

Why would you even suggest this?

I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays.

[farside22]

Oh the BELOVED "you're too defensive" scumtell. I attack you. You defend yourself. You're too defensive.

It was not an attack. Here is what I said:

Problem with that is 3 people answered the question and she says only 1 person did answer the question and calling them scum for doing so.
Talking about what your scum tell is stupid because........???

here is myko's comment:

which is why I try to argue that the question is not dumb. And on that moment, more then 3 people had already answered, starting with farside who DGB had in her townlist. Seriously, why are you defending her?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I used the word backtrack in my really big post there when rereading things again by the way.

that's gotta be a joke. What's the quota? One independent case for each player? If someone mentions something before me I can't agree?

It means you started off hot and fizzled from there. I see scum start strong and then just follow. I should know I've done it.
(damn there goes another scum tell I can't use again)

Saying my votes on EK and DGB lack substance is saying you don't like my case. Is there a reason I can't be misguided, if I'm wrong?

It means your offering nothing, showing nothing of a case. It is really easy to follow people but it's damn hard to make a case that is worth salt if your scum (typically)

[farside22]

Farside I have as leaning scum by now. I really can't understand what her motivations are when posting, and the things she says are too often copies of what is said earlier in the game. The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

Often copies of what was said in the game? I brought up DGB first. I commented about ABR and my feel on his read. I have gone through and posted something more then just town/ or scum on almost all players here and your saying it was almost all stuff said earlier? I meantioned the comment and backing off from pops first.
Are you seriously high or is this just BS OMGUS trying to build a case stuff that scum do?

[farside22]

BS OMGUS? Seriously, you accuse me of OMGUS while you have expressed that you had a town read on me but that you aren't sure about that anymore? Just saying it is OMGUS is not a defense

You read that post as me calling you town?
That clearly is uncertain but may be only clear to me.
Point being I presented issues with your play. Your case I basically have done next to nothing this game with no quotes at all and yes I'm going it OMGUS because we argued earlier were I questioned your play and you came back at me. I also went over you scum slips and you ignored just saying well I'm not going to be looking at what I said closely. Nice ignoring of my points again.
You haven't any case and this clearly is just an attempt to discredit me to others with no value. I'm going to assume at this point my vote on pops is good with myko/pops scum at this point.

myko why did you vote from DGB to raskol and with such a hypocritcal statement as this:

Quote:
You completely forgot what you did with fishy, and went for the next target, with a less then spectacular case. Where are you going to run next?

I have to check but I swear you voted from DGB to fishy back to DGB for the same thing. Will check this again to be sure.

Italics have the intention of making people distrust (if she is scum), with little basis, or significance:

DGB is meta based how does that promote distrust how is that not significate?
You defending her bring alarm bells as your also call her scum in the same breathe.

Underlined are complete lies. I have never said I wouldn't read the OU.

the strategy I propose: (for clarity)

no teleportation. In case the other universe sends a player, teleport him back next night, that way restoring the universes. That player sadly would not be able to post in the other universe, but he would not have to worry about splitting his attention.

Further, no universe would have to worry about the amount of scum and scumteams.

The teleporter=vig strategy only works during endgame, where it is the last action made (winning or losing the game afterwards).

I read this as how you felt as a player as well I assumed again this was your feel as people don't just say well only other people feel this way and don't say they don't feel this way as well.

[farside22]

The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

I forgot about this little tibit. Clearly town players don't go back and reread things either when showing what they think about players and why.

[farside22]

Farside I have as leaning scum by now. I really can't understand what her motivations are when posting, and the things she says are too often copies of what is said earlier in the game. The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

does any player believe this is an accurate example of my play and comments in the game thus far?

Policy lynching is a Good Thing. Has no one explained what policy lynching is? You remove unreadables from the game because they will NEVER be readable. (plus what little we have of CSL looks bad right now).

Did you know 9 times out of 10 either a policy lynch is either scum motivated or the mod replaces said person because they typically can't keep up and need to be replaced. I have seen CSL replace out of 3 games I was in. I'm beating dollars to donuts he will need to be replaced before you know it.

[farside22]

Farside I have as leaning scum by now. I really can't understand what her motivations are when posting, and the things she says are too often copies of what is said earlier in the game. The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

does any player believe this is an accurate example of my play and comments in the game thus far?

As much as I disagree with you on almost every point, no XD. You scumhunt a lot.

You voted for EK and DGB. I think you just disagree with me now because I think your scum.

[farside22]

DGB is meta based how does that promote distrust how is that not significate?
You defending her bring alarm bells as your also call her scum in the same breathe.

I am sorry, I don't understand what you are asking from me, could you state it in a different way?

Those comments were based on the comments you put in italics where you said this:

Italics have the intention of making people distrust (if she is scum), with little basis, or significance:

The case on DGB is terrible. Speaking from what you posted as a case I can point to a time DGB said scum day talked and she was town. It's a null tell.
Lots of defending from myko

Let me know if this confused you again. I may have worded something or posted this oddly. I'm looking at it myself and saying does this make sense.

[farside22]

If I were to vote CSL, it wouldn't be a policy lynch.

I just read him in iso.

I think he's straight up scum.

Sadely this just seems like his normal play style. I notice when he's scum he follows people a lot more. Just my 2 cents based on a game currently going on.
I notice as town he did try a bit harder and make some post but it was mostly him defending himself against policy lynches.

[farside22]

points missed my myko:

okay lets go over your "scum tells"

It has been some time that I was scum. During my games a scum I now know I was easy to catch, but people haven't allways found out how. I used to fakeclaim pretty well, but exactly the care with which breadcrumbs were placed showed that I was scum. Also, the use of PBPA to attack someone was something I used to reduce pressure on myself, and sadly, with some succes. Although people have never caught this, I used to manipulate peoples stances gradually, which resulted in some interesting discussions Smile The reason people went after me mostly was staying of the lynch-bandwagon, and sometimes arguing against it. But I have seen people lynch me for that regardless of my role Smile

fake claiming doesn't matter too much in this game.
The PBPA thing excuses you from not doing it in this game.
vote wise:
DrippingGoofball ( 4 ) mykonian, Albert B. Rampage, popsofctown, farside22.
You were the firs to vote but I saw you do a slight defense of DGB in saying she is a gut player. So do you know what DGB play is as a general rule? Have you played with DGB at all?

Also you missed my point about fishy and my claim.
Are comments are pretty similar in idea's so I don't see a difference. You want to use those quotes I brought up to show what difference you are talking about.

Often copies of what was said in the game? I brought up DGB first. I commented about ABR and my feel on his read. I have gone through and posted something more then just town/ or scum on almost all players here and your saying it was almost all stuff said earlier? I meantioned the comment and backing off from pops first

I noticed you just glossed over this and went straight for the OMGUS comment.
But seriously are you high or what is the story with the "case" your trying to make?
You didn't comment on what I brought to attention on your scum slips. And you didn't say exactly what you thought when I asked about the differences between fishy and I in our how I am as scum post when I put the post together and showed the similarites, the opinions and where we look more as scum.

[farside22]

About the part in italics: I don't think I have one post that is my case against DGB, there are a lot of point over multiple posts. In the post you use I say I think she is just trying to read scum in everything I do, and that this manipulation is scummy. I also say that this is not the first time, but that she is doing it over and over again. This is one point (and you are right, one of the weaker) points I have against her.

I'm sorry I'm not understanding this. It could be because I'm feeling sick today but is there a way to rephrase this.

I didn't think them the same, also not in idea. This plus your reluctance to answer, made me think you are scum who is hesitant to answer, while I never had such a feeling with Fishy. I believe I have said this multiple times.

Anyone who wants to openly share their nature as scum and you want to question me because I said I would rather not with valid reason?

Then the last quote. What is there to reply? Do I have to say "you are towny for trying so hard"?, Or do I have to say "why are you trying so hard to look town, Farside?"

Clearly you are making up a case then. Because I'm showing how your comments don't match the action and you know the too towny is a falicy

ie: now leaning more scum on myko at this point

By the way myko this is exactly what I was talking about with meta on DGB

I'm not providing links where I speculated about QTs as town - go check Medieval Mafia yourself, large theme.

She did this last game where she said something about scum talking during the day and was town. I'm wondering why plum is bringing it up since he was in the same game

God help me I agree with DGB about CSL this is sadly more someone I see town then scum.

@pops what is your view about the following players: EK, DGB, ABR, myko and Rhinox

@Hoopla you replaced someone that is on my scum list who offered next to nothing. I would like your views on the players in the game and who you think is scum.

[farside22]

She did this last game where she said something about scum talking during the day and was town. I'm wondering why plum is bringing it up since he was in the same game.

Was she in the same game? Are you sure? If so, we have Scumplum.

I'm a bit sick. I say this because my head is not as clear or wanting to go do a search. But didn't we just finish PYP where you made that comment to xyl and ek made the same comment in that game.
Plum replaced out and haylen replaced in plum's space but was scum in that game.
I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.

[farside22]

Link to DGB (as town) telling Stephoscope to go back to his scumQT in Yos's LAL mafia:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=395

Ha, no.

In the link I provided, DGB made the link between 2 players talking to each other in their QT in a very SPECIFIC fashion, just like she did in THIS THREAD.

Can you provide that link again along with the quote from this game where she said it so I can compare please?

[farside22]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox ojanen
DrippingGoofball ( 5 ) mykonian Albert B. Rampage popsofctown fishythefish plum
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 2 ) CSL Raskol
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 3 ) elvis_knits gayle DrippingGoofball
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 2 ) farside22 Hoopla
Raskol ( 1 ) evilsnail
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

*anyone want a cookie?*
I'm going to lay down and sleep but go look at pyp (pick your power) sounds very familiar.
Also DGB how can you not remember plum was in that game when I just said not too long ago and was quoted about you calling plum town in that game when she was scum?

[farside22]

nvm I'm slow dgb did it. Thanks.
bed calls now.

[farside22]

A part of me wants to vote for DGB but it's based on something so small and trivial I wonder if I'm just going crazy.
The other part of me wants to vote DGB for her inconsistency for today. The last part wants me to vote based on the I'm old and forget things comment which god help me I did that as scum just recently when I ran out of excuses.


illness tells me to leave my vote for now and get better first.
But someone remind me of these points later.

[farside22]

Read the claim. Read ABR's reaction. Think myko scum........
ABR looked like he was trying to counter claim DGB in a post here:

NEWSFLASH: You might all be interested to know that DGB is not in fact the mason.

FULL CLAIM so we can prove that you're lying please.

unvote:
vote: ABR

[farside22]

I remember one (last thing with farside), when you said that made me scum. I had quoted a post there where I pointed out what was wrong, and why. I don't think I would do that as scum, aggressively investigating Farside, as I know her a bit. It is kind of foolish to attack farside, since you will get a response. It is her nature.

You talking about the so called case saying I was following people and was full of crap and I called you on and then backtracked and tried to almost subtely use the too townie idea without saying it?

[farside22]

pst pops you should be voting for ABR or myko.

[farside22]

unvote, vote ABR

Curses!

Don't worry this is the perfect time for scum to bus.


okay in all seriousness voting for ABR is a good thing

[farside22]

I remember one (last thing with farside), when you said that made me scum. I had quoted a post there where I pointed out what was wrong, and why. I don't think I would do that as scum, aggressively investigating Farside, as I know her a bit. It is kind of foolish to attack farside, since you will get a response. It is her nature.

You talking about the so called case saying I was following people and was full of crap and I called you on and then backtracked and tried to almost subtely use the too townie idea without saying it?

You make it a so called case: because I didn't. I explained my reasons why you moved up my scumlist.

It wasn't full of crap, you didn't reply to half the points, and the FACT that you directly copied two questions in that post are showing I was in fact right. I haven't backtracked, since those points couldn't and werent explained. I have absolutely no idea how I have subtely used the too townie idea there. I don't think you too towny, so that is most likely you trying to read manipulation in my posts. (seen the subtility, you had to search for it)

So this post full of strong language perfectly hides that I had valid points against you.

Excuse me how about so proof on this. Because I will be glad to bring up your quote and your original comments again for all to see your scumminess. With your original "case" to saying nothing on my points to when you do say something it's almost saying too townie. Very close.
So please tell me what points of your "case" I missed.

[farside22]

Myko's original accusations:

Summary for myself on some people I haven't said a lot about

Farside I have as leaning scum by now. I really can't understand what her motivations are when posting, and the things she says are too often copies of what is said earlier in the game. The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

Farsides' comment on this accusations:

Often copies of what was said in the game? I brought up DGB first. I commented about ABR and my feel on his read. I have gone through and posted something more then just town/ or scum on almost all players here and your saying it was almost all stuff said earlier? I meantioned the comment and backing off from pops first

The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

I forgot about this little tibit. Clearly town players don't go back and reread things either when showing what they think about players and why. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Sorry, the first part I thought you wanted to show me my own wasn't brilliant either. I have read this, and answered that I hadn't checked myself.

I had answered the question about DGB: 1 large themed, and I know from reading she tends to be different.

I didn't think them the same, also not in idea. This plus your reluctance to answer, made me think you are scum who is hesitant to answer, while I never had such a feeling with Fishy. I believe I have said this multiple times.


Then the last quote.

What is there to reply? Do I have to say "you are towny for trying so hard"?, Or do I have to say "why are you trying so hard to look town, Farside?"

.

Bolded the back track and trying to almost say towny now. He used this sarcastically but it's basically myko trapped in a corner with no where to go.

[farside22]

@myko;

First off did you know each list I made was reading a person in isolation?

Second that is 2 things in bold that 3 other people said exactly word for word? Really? Or is it something they brought up when you said it?
I just want to be clear on the exact words since your saying that I "directly copied" the sentence

I don't care how towny I look. I don't care if everyone said here your scum and need to die as long as I point to the people I feel are scum and made a valid point to me that means the town is in good hands
I just outlined why your "observations" where completely invalid which has nothing to do with what I was looking for.

You want to twist my defending your "observations" as looking town when I just dismantled your whole case by all means people continue on your hypocrisy.

[farside22]

The bold that myko focased on:

a few people answered this question why refuse to answer yourself?

myko why did you vote from DGB to raskol and with such a hypocritcal statement as this:

Rhinox,
What rhionic had to say about your raskol vote:

hypocrite. you seem to have very quickly and easily forgotten what you liked about your vote on me. you're even on to your second suspect since me before I even posted to give you a reason to dislike your vote.

evilsnail wrote:

This post feels... off. As farside22 points out, sharing scum tells is not anti-town. Even if it did help scum in some way, it also helps the town find scum.

So you want to expand how my words are "directly copied" from these two quotes myko?

[farside22]

Evilsnail is the third scum.

what is the vote count is it still L-2?

[farside22]

The votecount is L-3 because I unvoted to make sure that ABR doesn't self-vote, with some help from his buddy.

Evilsnail FOS'ing ABR, the vote leader, while acknowledging all the reasons we find him scummy, then voting CSL, who is way less awful than ABR and a wong that's not happening today, and may be our teleporter (unfortunately), is beyond the pale and cannot possibly come from a townie.

Ya the CSL wagon is crap in comparison. ABR backed off after EK stated he didn't want a counter claim and realized he how scummy that was has no where else to go.

myko would be my newest vote.
I'm curious about something now..........remember when I pointed to ek and evil abut something that was very similar.
I wonder who said it first......I was reading in isolation when I found it.

[farside22]

mykonian, farside is town, she's teflon-coated by me, nothing you can say will make suspicions stick to her.

Talk to me about your buddy evilsnail and I'll listen.

myko is scum that has been driven in a corner. If you need me I'm going to be recovering from this cold.
He just retracted his own words in that post and backtracked oh so subtley.
Good times, good times.

[farside22]

[quote="myko]
And when I say I find this suspicious, combined with the above, you come with a big list why you are towny[/quote]
Misrep a lot this post from what I said here

You want to twist my defending your "observations" as looking town when I just dismantled your whole case by all means people continue on your hypocrisy.

Bolded are parts you directly copied from Evilsnail, Rhinox, and DGB

Slight back track when faced with facts

The wording was maybe not exactly the same, but there was resemblance enough for me to recognize it.

Yes, I know that. How does that in any way excuse your using questions from other people (that were answered)? (Rhetorical question)

Oh and apparently asking a question already asked is scummy.

Then why are you asking, why Fishy and you aren't in idea the same, saying my arguments (feel, your reluctance, the fact that Fishy would have to change his scumplay at the very basis) are rubbish. You keep comparing yourself to Fishy, my biggest townread in this game

And more misrep. I was basically asking for clarification on why fishy's post of his scum tells was different and better then mine and showed points they were similar.
Myko then says well you didn't really want to tell people your scum tells.
Yes because every person in the here on MS is so open about their scum tells. # of people that actually answered that question from myko in the game 4
out of 22
rebuttle?

[farside22]

EK is there any reason I should be voting CSL over myko?

[farside22]

Reposting:

CSL is scum because:

1) He vote Myko based on the scum slip (bad vote at best, IMO), then he unvoted like a scared puppy. Later, myko isn't even on his scum list.

2) He said he wasn't following Plum, which he clearly was, especially given the page number he said he was on when he voted.

3) Not giving any reasoning for his votes.

4) Asking to be allowed to live to night, saying he's okay with being NKed. He's hinting at being the teleporter, right?

I'm not giving you any credit on your thoughts.......let me check some things and I will get back on this later

[farside22]

My thoughts on eli is that our teleporter should send him back to the UO.
I read him in isolation and I can see why they thought he was scummy.

myko: What is with your knee jerk reaction to call almost anyone who looks at you as scum and make a case against them?
So far: me, EK and DGB. (only people who call you scum that you didn't try and make a case on Rhinox and Gayle)

[farside22]

One point I am going to disagree with EK on is the mafia kill. They had a confirmed mason (no one counter claimed) to kill and a breadcrumb of CSL saying teleporter.
Killing CSL if he is the town teleporter all it means is someone else will get the role that is town. Kill DGB means one confirmed town dead.
I don't see how killing DGB over CSL means CSL is auto-scum in that regards.

[farside22]

I still don't get how killing the teleporter helps scum when someone else will just become the teleporter.

[farside22]

Ellibereth should stay here, and stay alive.

Come the endgame, we are going to have some players from our universe here, and some from the OU. If the OU finishes before us, we are then going to know how many of each kind of scum we have, and have a pool of players each is from. This will very much aid us in scumhunting. Also, it is very unlikely that at any point, OU scum will be a threat over here (it would take two successful teleports, and us teleporting/killing our scum well). There is also the chance that the OU scum teleport him back for endgame reasons.

Also, whatever his alignment, Elli's motivations here (at least during the day) are to hunt for scum. At night, he will do nothing.

There's a balance to be struck between the information that a mix of universes can give us and the confusion it can potentially cause. There's some optimal number of OU players to have over here - but it's certainly not 0. Until we have 2 OU scum over here, they aren't something to worry about until very late in the game. I'd be happiest with 2-3 players from the OU here at all times.

Even if Elli is our most likely scum (I confess to not having read him in the OU yet - though I will), he is not the player who is most dangerous to us atm. As such, he is a bad lynch, and a bad teleport.

Also, if a decent chunk of the town agree with these ideas (which are right even without this paragraph), our scum have enormous motivation to kill Elli, who is dangerous to them because he is a bad lynch/teleport and, if scum, very bad for them in an endgame situation.

I'm very happy to argue this point for as long as it takes. Players from the OU are a great asset, and the confusion and possible second scum faction they bring is well worth it.

The OU should take note of this. It is well worth it for both towns to split up both scum factions, if at all possible. This means that, for now at least, teleporting back players is counterproductive.

Am I the only person who finds this line of reason completely scummy?

[farside22]

@Farside: I am finding it perfectly logical. Scum from Mafia 2 is not really a danger now. If the other universe wins, we can see how many of the teleports are scum/town. This plus that scum-elli probably doesn't kill here, means that we should wait for that information, and lynch Mafia 1 first.

I certainly don't want to be bombarded with scummy players from UO into our world. You know if they (the teleporter) teleports correctly and elli is scum the scum group maybe doesn't group but this means scum start to out weight town
It also seems the OU isn't thinking town if they didn't take DGB over to their side instead of giving us elli so don't mind me if I wish to ship someone they think is scum right back on them for screwing over the town here.

[farside22]

There is no reason unless he is dumb enough to do so, if elli is scum for him not to shoot.
The OU is making it pretty clear they are sending their outcast our way. Again I don't see the point of keeping a player here to outweigh the town here.

[farside22]

evil is still in this universe. Plum was sent over although I not sure why Plum was sent over. It seems I didn't see anyone really call suspicion on him.
Do you really want more scum to crowd into this universe and start of 2 scum teams fight it out with the town in the middle trying to sort through the chaos?

[farside22]

Do I want more scum to "crowd into this universe"? Talk about a loaded question. Here and now, I am arguing for having

one

player from the other universe over here. If he is scum, he is scum with no friends or kill, who has a good chance of being totally outed in the endgame. Yeah, I'd risk having a toothless SK over here for a comparable chance of reducing the scumteam by one.

The language you are using makes it sound as if this is a one way deal - we get their scum, and are screwed, while they laugh at us. This is emphatically not the case.

Okay lets try this again. 1) I'm aware no one has a clue what eli's allignment is but clearly looking at the OU he wasn't sent here for his winning personality.
This leads me to (2) the OU decided to go with the orginal lets screw over the U1 with scummy people approach. So I suspect tomorrow we will get another player they (the teleporter) deemed scummy and sent our way. So no I don't want players here that OU deemed scummy in our universe.

[farside22]

I don't see the point of keeping all players that the OU throws at us especially if they are scummy. It's is just in my view players for our universe scums to hid behind.

vote: Hoopla

This is in leu of my gut feel on flare and so far hoopla hasn't offered much insight to the game but noise

[farside22]

I'm all for voting and putting pressure on Hoopla. Anyone else want to help push a slacker who is usually more vocal to the test.
Come on no one listen when I orginally thought DGB/ABR argument was more personal then scum motivated.

[farside22]

I would like to hear from fishy as well on who he thinks is scum. I just reread him in isolation and except from the start of the game and this vote on DGB he's been realitively quiet on his scum hunting and doing more what is best in terms of teleporting.

[farside22]

I think I trust Gayle the most;

Vote: popsofctown

Can we please stop arguing and notice the person sliding thru the game here and add pressure?

[farside22]

Dear lord the above from myko is one of the few times I agree with his assesment.

Meta read on CSL it's difficult but I have to agree with OJ when I say it does remind me of a game currently in progress. I saw him as town in another game and he's more vocal.
I'm still feeling good on my hoola vote. One thing ABR has correct is if you think someone is scum and another player is scum that isn't as well verse in mafia you should lynch the one that has a greater (I hate to say it this way) intelligence.

[farside22]

Dear lord the above from myko is one of the few times I agree with his assesment.

I thought we agreed quite often during the start of the game... Before our argument.

And Evil, you name it with your suspicion on DGB. As town, you wouldn't have to worry about consistancy, but as scum you really want to show you aren't blatantly bandwagonning...

I think your wrong about EK.
I think I need to reread evil again. I wish people would go and look and flare and hoopla and see how badly they are coasting thru this game.

[farside22]

You don't listen about CSL's meta, do you. You just hammer on about what you said already, without listening to anything.

and now we have this. Seriously. Is this your attempt to look town by switching your vote now and then by "scumhunting"?

Are you going to argue all game?
First of all EK came up with sound reasons to vote for CSL so you is in fact scum hunting.
How about doing me a favor. I want an idea of what you think of all the players in the game and stop arguing as your not making sense half the time.

[farside22]

I'm sorry e_k. Part of it is homework load variation. It saps away how much time i tell myself I'm gonna spend when I click on mafiascum, and sometimes that means I don't dig into the scumhunting so much. Kinda like Fishy.

Lets see beside following people on cases adds to the list against pops that he follows excuses used by others.

So noted.

[farside22]

And OMG. Fishy had real life time constraints! And pops had real life time constraints too! OMG, that's such a unique, rarely seen excuse, pops must totally be copying fishy.

OMG I so noticed you didn't say this before or have this excuse on hand before till fishy said it. How dare I notice that.

[farside22]

point of order for the DGB voters and those that switched over the CSL

Those that voted for DGB and why:
Mykonian

wait, we are at the start of the game, I have asked a question, you are saying you caught scum by it, but it is useless?

unvote vote DGB

If you have a mindset where catching scum is pointless, you are scum. I am certain this was a major scumslip.

1. Seen the votecount, the interest in my lynch, elvis's, Raskols.

2. His "you are just as bad as adel" was not a defense, but a complaint. He didn't bother to defend.

3. Defending is probably the better word.

4. I will. No talk about night actions prohibits a lynch.

5. It is clear that it is normal for you two to be over each other. So it is almost expected from you to vote him and call him scum.

6. Please tell me how I can miss it.

I am shocked by the vote...not. You and Adel are really the same.

This was his post after your vote on him. He doesn't defend, only suggest this is the same thing over and over again. Sounds a lot like a personal problem to me.


DGB, I find it funny how you try to talk this into a conspiracy. First, albert must be scum, then, before the game, he must have communicated what you were going to do, but he didn't take actions to prohibit it. In stead, he asked his scumbuddy to ask for a teleportation after you would vote him. Seriously, this is reaching.

unvote vote DGB

Fabricating evidence, no matter how weird you play, is not town.

pops

I'm not defending DGB on all points. I really don't know what to think of her erratic play atm, it's bizarre.

I just didn't like your saying that she can't think the question is stupid and still find scum with it. She can. But yes, I know that you are arguing the question isn't dumb

@farside: I wasn't defending DGB in general, I was just opposing that one point where mykonian suggested she was contradicting herself. "she hasn't noticed that 3 people answered the question"+"scum skim threads" is legit formula scumhunting, agreed.

Write now I'm concerned DGB is going for "insanity plea scumhunting" by voting evilsnail on flimsy logic and encouraging e_k to skip the thread and vote with her, then shouting she already knows who the 5cumZ are when she ought to be defending herself.

unvote, vote DGB

Nah, Albert, I still prefer elvis lynch. Though 501 was getting to a ridiculous level of imitation of that post.

elvis is still town.

..... ok, your overtly committing the very thing ABR and I are onto you for. Elvis, at the least, is trying. I give votes to players that seem to want them.

vote:DGB

fishy

I like the DGB wagon best:
DGB on myk’s question is bad. If she finds the question, and responses, serious scumtells, why this, after the question and some responses:

Who do you suspect, DGB? Why are you not voting?

No one, that should answer both questions.

@ mykonian You're asking for my scumtells? How the heck should I know. I'm different in every game. Every game has a rhythm, and an atmosphere.

If the question and the answerers are scummy, why didn’t you suspect anyone?

After she does say that people who answered are scum (208), she fails to notice 2 of the 3 players who answered it (farside, me). farside immediately points this out (212). DGB ignores this for a long time, which seems very odd – she is now using it as a serious argument, so why on earth wouldn’t she look at the responses to the question until they were shoved in her face for a third time?

This inconsistent pushing of a scumtell doesn’t look like a serious attempt to work out who the scum are – more like a convenient reason for votes/suspicions.

I don’t like her accusation of an ABR/myk scumteam based on the latter’s wanting one of ABR/DGB teleported away. It’s very much against scum-with-ABR myk's interests to have ABR teleported away, so this makes little sense. Feels like she just wants to sling dirt at myk. Also produces a very bad argument for her initial vote – clearly not reading myk’s thoughts on CSL before voting him over them – this at a time when myk was under some pressure.

DGB’s timeline on myk:
- Jumps on wagon as fourth vote after Plum finds myk’s slip
- Moves off, briefly, to ABR
- Revotes with crappy reasoning
This last bit really feels like an attempt to push forward an otherwise faltering wagon.

unvote, vote: DGB

rhinox

ek 796: These are some good points, but wouldn't make me lynch plum today before lynching scum-csl.

I have seen CSL fakeclaim a powerrole as towny in an open setup. Have you ever played with him?

no don't believe I have.


I figured out something thats been bothering me about DGB. ABR-scum wouldn't be pursuing a personal vendetta, he would just be trying to force mislynch. For ABR to be tunneling because of a personal vendetta, that would point to ABR being town. DGB is arguing that a personal vendetta from ABR makes ABR scum, and that is just not the case.

Unless ABR has a vendetta that puts lynching DGB above his wincon regardless of allignment, which makes the tunneling a null tell, but makes ABR anti-town for doing so.

I have never played with DGB or ABR before, so I know nothing of either players meta or any possible vendetta between them. Truthfully, I could really care less right now, because right now in this game, DGB if flailing and looks scummy - ABR does not.

unvote: vote DGB

I think that is L-1 yes?. Claim time.

Those above that switched to ABR

and lets end this.

vote ABR

Looks like they got it wrong. Should have gone with Jack.

unvote, vote: ABR

Oh dear. I should vote count by hand more often. I rechecked because I just now noticed 892, and thought farside was being practical. (she wasn't as far as i can tell mykonian has few votes.)


ABR is closer to L-0, and we need to make a lynch here.

unvote, vote ABR

The reason I'm particularly attentive to whether ABR's targets flip scum is because I'm assuming I'm a good scumhunter (...lol...) and therefore I think he's townie for targetting scum atm.

But since DGB has functionally "flipped", he's already got one red mark since I made that post. And calling for mason not to cc was obviously dumb.

So this deadline lynch doesn't sting at all, he's almost on a level with CSL. (who has been way scummier than policy lynch line for quite some time, Gayle).

I noticed that fishy only focused on the debate of myko and DGB in his post. This looks like a valid case but idk when someone just focas's on the most 2 vocal people and not really push a case anywhere else it rings some untruth to me.
He just follows the BW to ABR.

I'm not sure if myko's hammer was a good thing or not. Would getting more time to hopefully, hope that the OU would have pulled DGB instead of sending someone away be better? Was 3 minutes enough time for someone to pull a player?

pops first and second vote on DGB just rub me the wrong way.

[farside22]

Well, to be honest, that post was more accurate for my old playing style. Some time has passed since I last played and I'm finding out that my new style is different. I haven't been going off gut reads as much in any of my games. I used to be more aggressive in following up on them, but now that seems kind of unhelpful. As for the caution, that has more to do with losing track of the game than anything else.

So you lied about what you do as scum when you first answered or you answered it thinking of past games and nothing that is current?

[farside22]

Hmmm elli's reasoning is really hard to pass up.

unvote:
fos: hoopla

vote: evilsnail

yeah I know I'm following someone for once. Shot me.

[farside22]

Are my eyes glazing or did Jack just basically claim scum.

@the other universe:

I don't know about evilsnails alignment, but I can say that playing styles do change after a long absence. If I'd been asked that question at the beginning of this game I'd probably have said I lurked as mafia, but I've hardly lurked at all this game.

The OU needs to lynch Jack.

[farside22]

Evilsnails case is meh. If anything farside puts herself in a position to go any direction she wants more than evilsnail does.

Scum with Evil ^^^

[farside22]

If anyone cares my top 3 scum suspects are Evil, Pops and Hoopla
Those I have my eye on: myko, fishy and CSL.

Obv town to me: EK, Gayle and OJ.

[farside22]

Why dida Plum say 2/3 in that letter she sent over to us?
Why aren't there more votes on evil?

What letter?

[farside22]

Got it. I get the impression he means in the group of players he named there is 2/3 scum.
There are 3 scums in the game. So maybe 2 out of 3 or there is 2 or 3 scums in the group he believes are scum.

[farside22]

Did I just see pops vote for me after calling me town all of day 1 and the only case he never agreed with or followed me on was his own.

Not only that but trying to build a case when anyone who looks at my sig knows I was gone for the weekend.
wow that just cold.

Anyways I want to read everything I missed while I was gone I just needed to comment about the coldness that is pops

[farside22]

I can't change my mind?

I don't look at your sig.

So you didn't notice the lack of posting coming from me since Friday?

[farside22]

I noticed it. I figured you were probably going with the lay low style of defense.

No one agreed with the case so you know. Although i thought I got scummy reactions.

well I have not had time to read up on what I missed. I'm better off waiting till tomorrow to read then now when I'm just too tired to think beyond poking my nose in on a game I'm not dead in.

[farside22]

Pops said:
Rhinox is town because he's scumhunting, a lot, and has generally been reading pretty accurate.

in comparison to me?

I don't see why Oj should be topping everyone's townlists right now. Or any of the other players with far less actual content than me that are getting free passes just because when I do present reads in this thread, people don't agree with me and think that merits a vote.

ATE just a bit much here

Farside has voted a whole whole lot in this thread, that's some of what concerns me. She's ready and rarin to go if a lynch can reach L-0, but goes elsewhere if it won't, as it seems to me. That's not to say she doesn't have player she decides to not vote at all and declare town, she does, but that too seems overly correlated with lynchability ITT.

Is being uncertain who you think is scum something that scum or town do more of?
I'm reading everyone in the game and granted 15 players including myself is not a lot of people but when you argue with 3 players the most and everyone else starts to duck and cover you forget about those who stay out of the line of fire

Gut reads are ok. Posting gut reads without voting is fail, it tells no one anything, but is sometimes used by scum for "it's ok for me to BW this person later".

Why would I vote someone by gut if I feel better about the vote I was on?

Farside votes E_k, but doesn't stick with it when it doesn't gain that much popularity. I didn't see E_k do much to change her mind.

I got a town read on EK after pressuring her. It happens and it was explained later in the day why.

The unvote off e_k is gonna be really good right? Since farside spent tons of time in the thread explaining why e_k was scummy, right? Except no. Who farside wants to lynch has little correlation with whom she has scumtells for.

A scum slip is a good thing to pressure. I spent time arguing and you agreed with me about EK. So why not stay with it?
Oh right I got a read on EK as town and you want to lynch her now. Awesome!

Yes, farside was also on the DGB wagon, although to read D2 sometimes you might be surprised how little it's mentioned.

I had been saying most of day 1 that DGB felt off. I even explain why. I love that you miss all that in your isolated read.

Bolded mine. Lol. She hypocritically attacks DGB for backing off on a case for no reason, which she's the queen of, and in the same post says DGB is scummy for her hypocrisy. Which is then, hypocritical. It actually makes a recursive loop of hypocrisy if you look at it

Please this is rediculous. I so gave a reason for backing off of EK now your just making shit up.

She attacks me for my comments towards DGB, which had a very large overlap with hers. The only time she mentioned me being scummy before this point is when she said I could be scum for todally defending my scumpartner DGB, which is invalid at that point. She sheeps onto Gayle's case to the exclusion of what she herself generally developed, when sheeping is something she said she does as scum.

here is the big case i had after gayle's vote. It was the first time I followed someone but I did state before I was uncertain of pops and her play afterwards looked more scummy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 10#2093510

I also love reading the case on me how pops just shows the unvote and vote but keeps the reason I put on my vote out of his case on me.
In fact everything I stated about DGB and EK is pretty much in there if you read me in isolation which his case on me looks like he did.

[farside22]

CSL should be teleported away. He votes for himself as town or scum and it anti-town in general. His I could care less attitude though reminds me of a game currently going on that would make me vote for him for a lynch today.
Sadely I'm starting to think myko is town that just isn't thinking properly.
I have a gut feeling on evil that makes it hard for me to move my vote at this moment.
Hoopla's post moved her up a bit but not much because I only saw a town list and not an good reason for her scum list.
pops/evil/fishy = scum team
keeps an eye on CSL, hoopla and rhinox

[farside22]

@Universe 1

- I haven't been paying much attention, but 1224 looks a lot like a scumslip.

compared to mafia 105 or compared to this game?

either way, disagree. Pie E7 I couldn't focus at all. Mafia jailbreak I was lynched for not being serious, fluffposting, and basically trying to enjoy mafia.

I don't get what lowell is saying in regards to this post but felt like looking at it.

[farside22]

Sadely I'm starting to think myko is town that just isn't thinking properly.

I love you too...

You have been really all over the place in your thoughts and most I found wrong but decidedly even though I don't agree with more then half you said you are scum hunting and trying to weed out those you get scum vibes/tells from.

[farside22]

ITT farside learns to read VIs

What?

[farside22]

vote: pops

Lets do this and ask the teleporter to get CSL out of here.

[farside22]

Can we go back to spamming the thread now? Because this is boring and unproductive.

SPAM!!!!!!

I want to know where everyone else that was bitching about the about of chatter who promised more imput went.

What was that too bitchy?

[farside22]

vote: pops

Lets do this and ask the teleporter to get CSL out of here.

omgus?

and

unvote, vote CSL

A nicer lynch than me. Although i agree he makes a good tele target

No I have a case you just ignored it in your same ole fashion.

[farside22]

well oh dear. I should have defended myself properly since everyone ITT doesn't steamroll through my defenses with confirmation bias [/sarcasm]

You had a question mark next to the OMGUS. I answered it.
So do you always need to follow people and use other idea's to come up with excuses, defenses and cases?

[farside22]

No, i never do.

Well my vote stays then. Thanks for the meta reference.

[farside22]

I never "need" to. I answered your baited, leading question properly.

I think Pops just admited to being scum with my bait trap.
Rock on!

[farside22]

He expounds on what fishy says. He adds a lot more. You're saying there's nothing new about the mechanical carriage because it has ancient wheels on it, not fair at all.

Which is exactly what I seem more scum do then town. It's easy to lurk and post points already stated and expand on them. It's being a lazy scum, pretty much what I think of your play thus far

It may be true, but you said the question sucks and then answered it in the same post. Seemed like you were trying to appease myko. If a question sucks, not answering it does not make you scum.

half dozen one or the other. I'm sure either way you would say it's scummy at this point

85% deadline exaggerated. I didn't believe that there would be a superior lynch coming soon. CSL would have been better, but this town is vehemently opposed to the concept of policy lynching.

Why policy lynch over someone you believe to be scum? Teleporting is awesome if you feel someone is just anti-town policy in this game.

[farside22]

[quote="mykonian"]
Since CSL, Farside, Elli and Elvis are on this wagon, I'm even more against this wagon.
[quote]

I really don't get why you believe EK or myself to be scum. 2 people I have a full town read is on pops wagon. You said yourself you had a town read on fishy. What exactly do you need to believe pops is scum at this point?

[farside22]

Since CSL, Farside, Elli and Elvis are on this wagon, I'm even more against this wagon.

I really don't get why you believe EK or myself to be scum. 2 people I have a full town read is on pops wagon. You said yourself you had a town read on fishy. What exactly do you need to believe pops is scum at this point?

that is 4 against, 1 in favor. I think fishy made a mistake here. There are too many people jumping on this wagon because it is there.

You know if elli is scum he has no clue who the scum team in U1 is right? he could be shot at too and has a reason to look for a scum team himself.
CSL is anti-town no matter his alignment. Ship him off and head him out. Doing a policy lynch is a waste in this game.
Can you expand on my why you believe EK or myself to be scum in your next post please?

[farside22]

getting caught up, but... can someone tell me why shipping CSL over to the OU is any better than lynching him?

Both options (lynching and tele) remove him from our universe, and IF he is town, brings mafia closer to majority.

So, if you want CSL teleported, you should be OK with his lynch as well. If you think CSL is town so you don't want to lynch him, but still want him teleported, that strategy is scummy as hell.

Can you explain why a policy lynch is better then lynching someone you find extremely scummy?

[farside22]

I see CSL as anti-town and pops as scum that's my difference.
Scum want to live so teleporting someone that is anti-town who is being pushed as scum by people who have no better suspects just makes me think it's scum trying to push an easy lynch.
EK and OJ had their points. I can get what their saying but his I could care less attitude reminds me of the town CSL I saw in another game.

[farside22]

I'm gonna have to start looking past my lynch a little bit now. While I didn't like the case on evilsnail earlier, he's not coming strong on my wagon, you should look at him after I flip. Maybe not farside anymore. I'm starting to think she's just stubborn and doesn't get anything.
.

You followed me and had me as town all day 1. Today is how dare you call me a follower to look at farside follow bs, bs, bs. Now it's I'm stubborn.
Lets see I called you out, you trumped up the second worse case I ever had on myself (as town) in so long. It was look at all her votes and unvotes and look she never said shit case that I take so much issue with. It was crystal clear reading your views on me it was done in isolation for to you to just gloss over my reason's for votes and say look at this unvote, vote crap is just in my view scum trying to make a case better then it actually is.

[farside22]

By the way, with CSL it seems as if he is activly trying to get us to teleport him into the OU. I don't know why anyone would want to get teleported as a strategy, but I don't think we should ablidge him anyways.

Why?

[farside22]

Scummy players coming in here can run and hide with the amount of people who like to chat. over at U2 not as much chatter gives scum less chance to lurk.

[farside22]

pops would it be fair to say in a game of mafia as town you are more caution with your vote? I noticed one of the games you linked where you played with Rhino and you voted once after many thoughts, comments made during that day.

[farside22]

So this series of misinterpretations and strawmans is really horrible. It is not hard to show inconsistencies this way, Rhinox, if you misinterprete half of what I'm saying.

I have no idea how this feels. How about you EK you know how this feel?

[farside22]

So this series of misinterpretations and strawmans is really horrible. It is not hard to show inconsistencies this way, Rhinox, if you misinterprete half of what I'm saying.

I have no idea how this feels. How about you EK you know how this feel?

Oh, I'm so very sorry for you, and your sad problems.

And this doesn't have anything to do with Rhinox clearly doing it here. And you wait for your turn. You can say I misinterpreted you for a whole page long after I got everything ordened in one post.

You misinterperted myself many pages ago. I don't feel like rehashing this unless you feel up for it.
But I'm waiting in baited breathe for that why I'm scum post. It should be most entertaining.

[farside22]

There's no place like home
There's no place like home
There's no place like home
There's no place like home
There's no place like home
There's no place like home

[farside22]

PS: in case no one read it in my previous post, I'm pretty sure I know who DGB's mason partner is. Would it be a good idea to get him over here and ave a confirmed townie for tomorrow, even if that means he'd be quick to die (forces the scum hand on who to kill, which is good for us because our original town numbers remain).

So what lets screw over the U2 and bring their numbers down in town.
Did you see the mafia win condition and the double win condition when you came up with this?

Since we could pull a player from the U2 and they could pull when they go to night next it can have one confirmed town for 2 days max.
Other then that it really sucks.

[farside22]

I think pops should claim now.

It should be noted that if someone fake claims teleporter, now or at any other time, the teleporter has the option of teleporting away the fake claim - thus outing them - instead of counterclaiming. Whether this is a good idea depends on things in the other universe as well as over here, but it's at least worth considering.

Actually that's a good idea because then we know the person is a liar and the teleporter doesn't have to counter claim.

[farside22]

I need a short version of myko's case there. I feel lost reading it or I'm just tired because it's just after 7am

[farside22]

Okay rereading myko's case I will give short responses as most of this has been already answered.

1) fishy my post. I pointed out the similarities asking you for what is different exactly and you haven't given an answer on what it was. The only one you really stated was me hesitating and I responded that when only 1/3 of the people here actually answer the question my desire not to answer the question looks pretty valid since most didn't answer the question to begin with.
2) If I said you were actively lurking I would just say you were actively lurking. I was making analysis on all players and things that caught my attention. I found it interesting that you don't want to use the teleport stating that people may not want to read the U2 but your reading it. Just a bit oddity to me.
3) I showed that my questions were not direct copies and even stated that my read on you was an isolated read. So your direct copies is a gross overstatement. The case I called crap was this one:

Farside I have as leaning scum by now. I really can't understand what her motivations are when posting, and the things she says are too often copies of what is said earlier in the game. The argument with me what the difference was between fishy and her answer seemed to be asking to say she was town after all. I don't think town would remember one of the first arguments made against her. If this was the case, she would normally have answered it did bother her. She didn't.

Often copies of what was said in the game? I brought up DGB first. I commented about ABR and my feel on his read. I have gone through and posted something more then just town/ or scum on almost all players here and your saying it was almost all stuff said earlier? I mentioned the comment and backing off from pops first.

So again I find your comment based on 2 quotes an overstatement. Nvm the 2 questions I showed already were not "direct copies".

[farside22]

Farside, this time I was very careful not to use the word "copies", but I used "used points of". Don't drag me into this again.

And all your replying points were basically already in the post. I have been trying to stay objective...

Calling it a strawman when I quote the fact it was not a direct copy. How is that a strawman?

Later we get the discussion where farside thinks she should be called townie, just as Fishy based on her thinking that those answers are identical. I disagree

You have really expended on why you disagree.

and finally I see this:

That way she can say I'm backtracking. Further, the language is really over the top. This is basically screaming popular words (Backtracking, too townie, full of crap) without admitting she indeed did use Rhinox and Evils points. iso 105 is about this, with also points about the first quote of this post.

as backtracking as you made it sound like I was coping everything everyone said but only point to 2 comments I made that were similar and one frankly was bactracked in the same paragraph as I saw you answered it. Finally evil never directly asked you why you didn't answer it as I quoted what he said when you answer the question to begin with.

So if you don't want to get into it stop bringing the same points I'm disputing as a case.

[farside22]

So myko you would rather see a no lynch today then?

*repeats to self:
I am trying to not say anything catty to myko.
I am trying to not say anything catty to myko.
I am trying to not say anything catty to myko.

[farside22]

Pops: Why did you teleport plum?

[farside22]

Also why didn't you say anything pops when CSL was almost softclaiming teleporter?

[farside22]

Less than stellar D1 play, didn't feel like digging around for a better target. I didn't want to teleport away CSL until N2, because since I have a rep for being pretty serious about policy lynching/vigging, the mafia could guess that I might be teleporter and shoot me.


I didn't counterclaim CSL because CSL was SOFTclaiming. Even you know better than that farside. Reacting to the softclaim anymore than anyone else did would out my own role.

Did you vote for CSL today?

unvote:

vote: Raskol

[farside22]

*shrug*

Well, I'm okay with sending pops away.

Unvote, vote: CSL

pops can't send himself away.

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: pops

[farside22]

1437 from Hoopla was a scumslip. He knew pops's claim was fake.

Agreed. I think hoopla needs to be lynched tomorrow ASAP.

[farside22]

Thanks for the list EK.
I think I'm torn with raskol and rhinox. Both are almost invisible.
Rhinox was called town by pops and it could be a scum ploy to get a town lynched or scum buddies.
Raskol should have been replaced.

[farside22]

How many of you have actually caught scum from a scumslip?

*raises hand*

And this one was obvious scum slip. As guess what you seemed informed on scum roles and how they work but not town.............so if your not "paying attention" why would you know scum could teleport them self?

[farside22]

vote: Hoopla

[farside22]

myko do I need to remind you of hoopla's little slip.

*shrug*

Well, I'm okay with sending pops away.

Unvote, vote: CSL

pops can't send himself away.

Well, you know, if he is scum.

[farside22]

Lets not forget this little gem as well.

How many of you have actually caught scum from a scumslip?

*raises hand*

And this one was obvious scum slip. As guess what you seemed informed on scum roles and how they work but not town.............so if your not "paying attention" why would you know scum could teleport them self?

I don't know how to explain my thought process, because it wasn't operating on all cylinders - but I think I was in the mindset that if pops is scum we're sending him away, so we get a win/win - we get a policy lynch on CSL too.

I understand why it looks bad, and all I can do is insist it was an honest mistake. Before speedlynching me tomorrow, at least let me live long enough to provide some reads and analysis with a scumflip, so my mislynch won't be a complete waste of a day. Thanks in advance!

[farside22]

based on some post from pops I will note the following that struck me.

I think I'm leading towards the elvis side of the spectrum atm. Raskol seems genuinely cranky in a townie way. Elvis just isn't all that impressive.

Raskol maybe scum with pops. I noticed that pops jumped on the bw that was all town so far.
DGB, ABR, EK and myself.

My gut says Raskol is town, I wonder if he comes off that way in every game he plays though. A lot of the points made against him, to my head though, are logical. E_k participation and involvement still feels a little low this game. Yeah, that's not a powerful case E_k, but I'm not voting on it either.

Gut read with no reason on raskol and pushing EK over him. Leads to more likely scum buddies.

I think CSL might require a policy lynch. He posts very briefly for the entirety of any games he plays

.
CSL is town looking at this post. This is pure scum trying to dictate policy lynch of another player. Also again seeing pops jump on other bw's that have all been town so far I believe CSL town

- I agree with EK about publishing townreads. pops says we want to help the other universe with their pulling – no, we really, really don’t. That seems like an unlikely thought for town – it clearly hurts us if they pull well.

What? Quote it. I do not recall saying that.

Er... can't find it. I'll try and work out what I meant later.

That is, try to hold me off with a promise to "figure out" what went through your head as you made a post like a day ago so you can wait and see if I get distracted and forget you uber-misrepped me?

unvote, vote: FishytheFish

Just a weird interaction in retrospect. Something just nagging at me readin this that is hard to explain.

Rhinox: Rhinox seems like earnest scumhunting every post he makes. (of course I remember you). One of the highest probtowns for me. He comes in here regularly and makes accurate and original observations.

Says this about Rhinox but tried to make a case on myself when I have done the same leads me to believe Rhinox scum possiblities.

Evilsnails case is meh. If anything farside puts herself in a position to go any direction she wants more than evilsnail does.

Another scum possiblities. Like I said pops dismissed only a few cases that were put forth.

Also I note myko didn't want a pops lynch and didn't see pops as scum but I'm on the fence with myko.

[farside22]

@fishy what points are you talking about?

[farside22]

The links between pops and Raskol/Rhinox/Hoopla/me in 1472 and 1474. Of these, I think the Raskol link is the most convincing, and even then isn't that exciting.

I think Evil is the most convincing. I'm basing it on pops play in the game. She followed me most of day 1 but once evil was brought up she tried to sling mud at me.

[farside22]

I don't think Hoopla is scum.

Since I know sometimes your reads are completely off on players that are scum can I ask why?

[farside22]

evil: I don't see you giving a reason for you vote on Hoopla. You have been very under the radar not saying much about anything and doing mostly parroting.

Rhinox: You seriously think scum pops was bussing their scum partner with a policy lynch mentality?

[farside22]

unvote

. I'm uncomfortable about the way this wagon has gone, and Hoopla's analysis, while not exactly fleshed out, contains a lot I agree with. I need to think about this one, and reread people like Oj and Raskol.

I've seen Hoopla just perform the best scum performance I have seen in many a year here at MS so I'm not quiet let me clear Hoopla right now.
I do agree that evil looks scummy, mcscummerson but don't think for a second hoopla would not bus her scum partner in a heartbeat to look more town.

[farside22]

evil: I don't see you giving a reason for you vote on Hoopla. You have been very under the radar not saying much about anything and doing mostly parroting.

That's a bit unfair. It's pretty clear I'm voting Hoopla for the slip fishy caught. Okay, so I've followed others in that vote, but, other than that, I think the accusation of "parroting" is pretty inaccurate.

have you really established a case on anyone in this game?
The only time I really saw you was when fishy attacked you based on your own scum meta comments.

[farside22]

If plum is scum that would be good for us and knoweledge for the U2 as we would not have U1 scum here but we wouldn't know for sure with eli and may in this Universe.
gee I wonder now why I wanted the U2 people gone in the first place

Evil: Why does hoopla's vote on pops look like scum bussing where me and gayle are given town points?

[farside22]

Whatever

Vote: Hoopla

That gut read is just probably another massive fail on my part...

Listen I'm not trying to slam you or anything but gut reads are difficult to prove. I'm starting to see cold logic on event as a better view then gut.
Not all the time but I have seen town do some really dumb moves and after you read your like yay he's being dumb not scummy. But it's based on overall play in the game.
Hoopla you know I love you but I now firmly believe you to be a manipulator.
Your little slip on Pops and him transporting himself is a slip. You stated you didn't know or wasn't paying attention but you knew enough to know that a scum teleporter can transport himself which in my mind tells me you knew Pops was fake claiming.

[farside22]

Mod: What is the word on Raskol? Is he being replaced?

I just saw him post in another game and it irks me when players give up one game but are fine with other games.

[farside22]

myko: Why do you say

Never mind, they aren't buddies.

in regards to pops and evil and then vote evil at the end.
You don't seem very clear on your reasoning in that post.

[farside22]

unvote

. I'm uncomfortable about the way this wagon has gone, and Hoopla's analysis, while not exactly fleshed out, contains a lot I agree with. I need to think about this one, and reread people like Oj and Raskol.

I've seen Hoopla just perform the best scum performance I have seen in many a year here at MS so I'm not quiet let me clear Hoopla right now.
I do agree that evil looks scummy, mcscummerson but don't think for a second hoopla would not bus her scum partner in a heartbeat to look more town.

Being capable of manipulation isn't a case, it's not even a point - and I don't see anything else you've got beyond the 'slip' I made.

I'm really disliking Ellibereth suddenly changing his mind with little to no persuasion needed. I'd be looking at the position of evilsnail and Ellibereth in the event I am lynched, because they are bad, bad votes. Tsk tsk.

Mykonian is being very sensible right about now - and that isn't just because he's helping me with an evilsnail vote.

You have been mostly lurking, you replaced a person I found scummy to begin with. We have the slip, which is blantant.
Finally eli is from U2 not this universe saying they are scum together is laughable.

[farside22]

mod: please prod Gayle and may

[farside22]

Gayle had me fooled but I thought myko was scum. CSL is why policy lynching discussions happen on day 1 because scum will always keep someone like that alive.

Overall had fun playing. Wasn't surprised when I died.

[farside22]

Guy's, seriously, stop saying "myko was so clearly scum"

it is as if they should have lynched me

I tried to lynch you.