War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[DrippingGoofball]

you would say that, since you're scum too

Scum like Kinetic?

[DrippingGoofball]

you would say that, since you're scum too

Scum like Kinetic?

Scum like Juls?

Precisely.

[DrippingGoofball]

What I think might be a good idea is have two targets, of which you would say 'if one is scum, the other is not, and vice versa.' And we'll bring them both down. I think if we take two opposite persons, chances one of them would be scum are quite big.

Wouldn't it be better if both targets were scum???

feel there's probably scum among ABR, populartajo, rofl, and The Fonz.

Narrow it dow to three, please. Or at least put their names in order, from most scummy to least scummy.

[DrippingGoofball]

obsolete issues

More importantly, we need to know who you think is town, and who you think is scum. Please write a comprehensive list, with your thoughts on each player. Thanks.

[DrippingGoofball]

What? I don't post content and it's suspicious, I post content and it's suspicious?

Could it be your suggestion that we kill a townie along with a scumbag?

[DrippingGoofball]

dgb can we plz hurt weyouns?

Since my action on Kinetic didn't count, I am fully charged.

I find it hard to ignore the bizarre episode that is Firestarter's most recent post, though.

[DrippingGoofball]

No. I want us to hurt two people who we think might both be scum, but not together. A couple you would say, 'if one is scum, the other isn't; and vice versa'. Off course, it'd have to be a collaborative effort, and people who are more leaning towards one of them would hurt that one, and others the second.

Ugh??? I understand how it 'works' especially the part how it kills more townies.

[DrippingGoofball]

So that if we do kill a scum there's also a townie right there to go down with them. Right?

He gets ONE chance to explain how his system doesn't kill more townies. For laughs and giggles. Then I hurt him. I'm going to see a movie tonight, might have to wait until I return.

[DrippingGoofball]

I just saw ViqLES reading the thread, and failing to report whether he has a results. MMmmmMmmmmm....

[DrippingGoofball]

WLC has failed to explain how his plan kills more scum than townies, depriving me of laughter. I wear a frown.

I support hurting WLC. However, since the scum started dumping rage points, it's better for me now to use my other power rather than hurts/heals. I will make sure to voice my express support/disapproval of wagons so that my opinions continue to be traceable.

[DrippingGoofball]

You might want to vary your use times a bit so that the scum can't guess exactly when you will be between uses.

I don't need to announce time, do I?

BTW, the bunny isn't quite himself. He's usually more polite in his condescension.

[DrippingGoofball]

roflcopter is a serious hypocrite for trying to tar me with WaltWishbone, now. At least I had support from other people and wasn't just going on a one-man crusade.

With two hurts a pop, no less...

[DrippingGoofball]

Mind posting the Kinetic wagon for quick comparison?

[DrippingGoofball]

My PM to watch was about 8 hours too early, so I have to try again. It's interesting to note that scum realized this in order to quickly dump their rage points before my watch cycle started.

Wait... aren't watch PMs secret between you and the mod? How could scum have realised this if you aren't one?

GENIUS

Good catch... Fonzie cuaght us some scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

I am alright getting killed by a town organized towards my death with discussion and a case [...]

So you don't think your wagon is scum-driven? It's a town-driven wagon?

[DrippingGoofball]

What slip did I make? I think I made it pretty obvious to everyone that I was going to start watching after Juls died. All scum had to do is check to see that they still had a few risk-free hours after my hurt action to dump their rage. I'm sort of confused as to what I said that was "damning"

I didn't realize that. Never mind.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey zwet, you never said who you watched. Don't say it unless your watch period is over.

[DrippingGoofball]

I started yesterday a few hours after the rage dump.

Gah! I hope you're lying,

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not. THAT'S WHY I MADE MY COMMENT THAT FONZ MISREPPED.

I believe that The Fonz got it wrong now that you've cleared it up, but for heaven's sake (this is the perfect game to use that expression) do NOT advertise the timing of your watches, unless you're scum and you're looking for excuses as to why you never catch anyone.

[DrippingGoofball]

Wait, so Fonz points out one thing about zwet, something that can genuinely be explained in a non-scummy way and you're ready to view zwet as scum.
I point what he's done in thread that is scummy and you ignore it and call him town.
How does that work?

I've been calling zwet town all game, but if The Fonz had been correct with his premise (he was NOT), then I could see how it would indicate that the scum had inside knowledge. Had The Fonz been right, then I would have changed my stance on zwet. Your case wasn't convincing, there were more convincing cases at the time.

[DrippingGoofball]

Weyouns do you understand the concept of focusing our attacks?

I think both WLC and q21 are focusing their attacks on YOU. They seem to have a least a rudimentary understanding of 'focusing attacks.'

Which means you shouldn't hurt me if you're town.

Independently of the merits of hurting you in general, I don't see the logic of them not hurting you if they think you're scum, to focus on another player that possesses the ability to catch scum and is easy to kill, as ordered by you.

[DrippingGoofball]

What the hell don't you understand about HURTING ONE PERSON AT A TIME? Concentrate your efforts, does this ring a bell?

There's some truth to that; however, there's that chance that scumbags are leading the town to kill one townie at a time, say, after gaining town cred from bus'ing one of their own on day 1.

[DrippingGoofball]

How is Weyouns easy to kill or possess the ability to catch scum?

Not WLC, but ZWET. Zwet could potentially catch scum, and is very easy to kill, being rather low on HPs to begin with, and having caught some hurts.

[DrippingGoofball]

On another note, advertising the times you are going to be watching helps get scum nervous about using their rage points (which I think they could use now to finish me off)

Advertising incorrect times is even better, that's why I was

hoping

you were lying about it. Do not confirm or deny.

[DrippingGoofball]

All the townies who decided to go after me

So. Townies are going after you. You know they're townies, eh?

...are going to suffer now, because its going to be fucking impossible to distinguish the scum from the town after I die.

I sure would like to try.

[DrippingGoofball]

I see the chocolatey goodness of DGB's sneaky plot...

And don't use hurts/heals unless there's evidence of scum dumping a truckload of RPs, if at all. Promise to liberally express your support/disapproval or wagons so we know where to stand.

[DrippingGoofball]

If there are 6 people attacking me, Nurse Ratchet, they can't all be scum.

You made it sound like they're all town.

Six people, really? That many?

[DrippingGoofball]

If there are 6 people attacking me[...].

Could you list them for easy reference?

[DrippingGoofball]

There are 8 people who want to kill me.

Where's the list?

[DrippingGoofball]

You said Scum took advantage of your pm going in too early. The only way scum know when your pm is going in is IF YOU TELL THEM.

He left clues in thread for the whole world to see. But again, he may be looking for excuses.

Look, Weyoun is the one who started the ABR hurting... with no backing.

ABR himself counted 8 people with intents against him, so this point is debatable. I think even ABR would have to recognize that WLC had support.

[DrippingGoofball]

1) I don't need backing to hurt a lurker.

We agreed that lurkers were fair game for unsupported hurts? I didn't know!

2) I still want to hurt zwet.

He is a watcher with little HP, and if he puts up a fight it's going to be with 5-word posts. This could be a great opportunity.

3) After calling intent to hurt viqles and dgb, I said I didn't want to hurt the observers first.

And now, ABR's bell tolls for zwet.

Fonz is NOT saying you should never heal anyone, he's saying that you shouldn't heal someone who is actively being hurt.

Even if you think the hurts are scum-driven? I guess the strategy might be to go look at who was on the wagon, but in practice, we seem to be killing townies, then looking for needles in haystacks. Not that I have a better strategy to propose.

[DrippingGoofball]

No, I shouldn't hurt zwet, because I already said I don't want to hurt Ophans.

But you want OTHERS to focus on hurting an Ophan??? Whassup with that...

[DrippingGoofball]

Evidence:

Weyouns do you understand the concept of focusing our attacks?

Which means that we are focusing our attacks on YOU, and a few other key players like

ZWET

.

Which means you shouldn't hurt me if you're town.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP
Evidence:

Weyouns do you understand the concept of focusing our attacks?

Which means that we are focusing our attacks on YOU, and a few other key players like

ZWET

.

Which means you shouldn't hurt me if you're town.

The above was a couple of pages ago.

This directly contradicts: "No, I shouldn't hurt zwet, because I already said I don't want to hurt Ophans." This was written on this page.

[DrippingGoofball]

Go with your gut. We'll see where that gets you.

That's not my gut. One minute you don't want to dirty your own hands hurting Ophanim, but in the next breath you entreat other players to do the deed.

Again, you really do seem to KNOW I'm town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Your complete lack of a defense is noted.

[DrippingGoofball]

"to keep yourself from feeling bad when you see I'm town."

Yep. You know I'm town.

[DrippingGoofball]

at this point i'm just going to act as a very slow vigilante

Too brazen to be scum. ^^^^^

[DrippingGoofball]

The plot thickens. Should he or should he not reveal who is was/is watching if he dies?

[DrippingGoofball]

Interesting ABR. With all that is going on right now, that statement was a long-shot. Similar to the attacks of Shinnen on the 75% thing.

Noted.

I don't understand this.

[DrippingGoofball]

Your attempt to paint albert's 'those townies on my wagon' stance as knowing they are all town is similar.

We'll see in end game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Question to everyone: do you feel the Shinnen hurt on rofl is likely distancing, or genuine attempt to harm an antagonist?

I'd say it would depend it Shinnen thought he was going down for sure. He might want to make a last-ditch distancing attempt. But if Shinnen thought there may be a chance that he would survive, he'd be more likely to strike at a townie.

It's guesswork, but that would be my guess.

[DrippingGoofball]

What stance are we taking with unilateral actions..
Single helas/hurts should not go unpunished.

My attempt to heal Kinetic failed on account on an error on my part. But no one talked of punishing me for trying

Why bring this up now, I wonder. Besides, I approve of a Xyl heal.

[DrippingGoofball]

Are you objecting to having a stance on the unilateral hurts/heals DGB?

I don't think unsupported hurts/heals are that much of a problem. To enforce it with death would removes flexibility in our play, slow us down, etc. I think it should be a case-by-case basis. No unsupported actions should be a guideline, not some rule blindly enforced with an iron fist.

[DrippingGoofball]

I feel that it will just spread out the hurts.

That, too.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have to say, I find DGB's idea a bit better in a perfect world, but it's a bit idealistic. I think if we could get a group of people who present the CounterHurt unit, then we could leave the rest of the town to their devises.

Maybe, say, three or four people who would dedicate their hurts to dealing with unilateral action?

Idealistic? Has it been that much of a problem in practice?

[DrippingGoofball]

It's a bad sign when I look at the hurt/heal patterns and think "This would make so much more sense if I was scum".

Explain? I sense comedy.

[DrippingGoofball]

i've realized this game is making me a lot meaner than i usually am. but seriously guys, don't be so stupid.

Yes, I noticed. You're not hopping in heads of early summer cabbage and tender carrot tops the way you usually do.

[DrippingGoofball]

...Nuwen was the one who didn't use rage. (Or I have a serious misunderstanding of how rage works.)

The question is, did the scum believe her to be a likely watch target?

[DrippingGoofball]

being a seraph, if she is scum she's the most valuable member of the team, and she was obviously scummy when she killed walt, so i'd say its likely she would be the one not to use rage.

The rabbit has a point.

IF there are 4 scum, and IF they thought she might be watched.

[DrippingGoofball]

We've been dilly-dallying around a lot today.

We should settle on a lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

Mainly IF there are four scum. If Nuwen is Seraphim-scum she would be the logical choice to hold her rage point.

Undeniably.

[DrippingGoofball]

the (really stupid) rules that are being shoved down are throats now involve only being allowed to suspect ONE PERSON AT A TIME, and not suspecting ANYONE if you'd rather be healing

QFT

I violently disagree with this strategy, I have no idea why suddenly it was 'needed.' I can just see those Rage Points piling up as we bicker.

[DrippingGoofball]

so telling me i can't use walt's support for a xyl hurt is like telling someone they shouldn't reread a dead town player's analysis

I personally don't support Xyl hurts. However, there is a case that can be made for counting support of dead players that are confirmed town. But then again, a dead player's opinion on day 1 isn't worth the same as one made

in extremis.

Whatever happened to using our judgment? We'll be wasting our precious time arguing about rules, their application, and a good dose of 'making up new rules as we go along' with some scum taking advantage of it and hiding behind the interpretation of paragraph 2b, line 56.

[DrippingGoofball]

It's creating problems to solve a non-existent problem.

I'm not going to say any more on the matter. My disagreement just compounds the idiocy.

[DrippingGoofball]

they're equally likely to be scum as i believe they are both scum.

Question: have you looked for evidence that they may be buddies?

[DrippingGoofball]

i can't wait til tomorrow when we get to find out if the retaliation team has the balls to actually go through with it

Are you referring to a plan of finishing off Xyl?

[DrippingGoofball]

Well, doesn't that commit me to killing Rofl for one violation? I don't think he's scum. If Nuwen's scum, killing Rofl could be catastrophic.

So there's an exception to the rule for copter, who is allowed to hurt without consequence? Or did I misunderstand you.

[DrippingGoofball]

I can think in anything but fakevoting.

We could have a 24 hour period where everyone voices the 3 players whose hurt they'd approve. We can act on it in the following time period.

Would that work, or is it too stupid to consider?

[DrippingGoofball]

and/or players whose hurt we disapprove.

[DrippingGoofball]

Would that work, or is it too stupid to consider?

this is basically voting for 3 players
i approve.[/quote]Thanks. I think 3 votes will speed things up considerably.

[DrippingGoofball]

Players have until March 31, 2:00 PM Eastern Time, to express their three hurt approvals.

As soon a player receives 3 votes, this player is fair game for hurts.

If a player is killed, the votes reset and we start again.

[DrippingGoofball]

Allowing people to vote multiple times makes them less attached to their votes, though.

3 votes maximum. Only a retarded townie player would find only 1 suspect in this game.

Single votes are too slow and inefficient.

[DrippingGoofball]

i'll use all three of my votes on xylthixlm. there, look, i've reached the threshold and he's fair game to hurt. nya nya nya.

naughty naughty

Now I have to make up a new rule that your 3 approvals are on different players.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yes, votes, or 'hurt approvals.'

[DrippingGoofball]

heck, if we do this, there's even time to massheal Firestarter before we need to masshurt.

What's the case for FS mass heal?

[DrippingGoofball]

translation: he was injured by malicious scum pretending not to know drench had been replaced

Oh yeah. I forgot the replacement. I think the idiots that hurt him should be the ones putting their heals on him.[/quote]

[DrippingGoofball]

Players that owe Firestarter a heal:

# Firestarter/Drench (-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, The Fonz (4) Healed by: (0)

[DrippingGoofball]

Isn't WLC dead already?

[DrippingGoofball]

hurt approval:

Seraphim
ABR

3rd position to be announced later, too many choices.

[DrippingGoofball]

hey look, xyl and seraphim are both on there, what are the chances?

Xyl and ABR had reasons pertaining to Drench lurking. If memory serves, Seraphim and Fonz logged in their hurt after a replacement was announced.

So if you're going to be fair, Seraphim and Fonz are the suspicious ones here. Why are you ignoring Fonz and ABR, and focusing on Xyl?

[DrippingGoofball]

THe mistake ones where when i asked who was lurking, Seraphim said Drench, I looked up Drench's posts and agreed, then we both hurt Drench, not realising he'd been replaced.

That's possible, I hope you'll make up for it with a heal. It's only fair.

[DrippingGoofball]

Tajo, Rofl has a point. It's too easy to dismiss the words of dead town by saying they were idiots or omgussing or whatever. They were still town. THey don't count as supports because dead people can't vote, but nonetheless...

You can't count Juls. Come on. She read up to page 7 and hurt Tenchi for no good reason, and Kuato'd ABR the rest of the time.

[DrippingGoofball]

...before she went into follow the leader mode, she was actively against xyl

She went full ABR Kuato after her 15^th post. Her opinion has very little credibility. We've seen much more of of Xyl than she has, plus, we're paying attention.

[DrippingGoofball]

so how do you feel about walt wishbone's opinions then?

If he made a case against Xyl, beyond OMGUS, then there is no harm in taking into consideration, but the burden is on the player that wishes to use his support beyond the grave to show us the case made by the dead player.

That would be fine by me, though others may have different opinions.

[DrippingGoofball]

Poptartajo is like a metropolis of towniness all by himself.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ WLC

Vote 3 players before you die please.

[DrippingGoofball]

As far as I understood the rules, I can still talk until God returns. If not, sorry! I really hope town can get its act together and turn this around.

Three votes please.

[DrippingGoofball]

Send my regards to hell.

Seriously, this is just a game, and WLC is being a good sport.

[DrippingGoofball]

I really don't know. Now I'd say

The Fonz, ABR, and Xyl

. But that might be that desperate feeling kicking in
Second three would be Giuseppe, Firestarter, and Seraphim.

Are you going on record for The Fonz, ABR, and Xyl?

[DrippingGoofball]

Am I being paranoid?

No. Your post is refreshingly lucid.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB [...] START HURTING ME ALREADY

It's possible that I have switched my sword for my binoculars. Maybe, maybe not. If I hurt or heal, the scum will know has 24 hours where one less player is observing them. Why are you trying to provoke me? You know it could only help the scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

also, dgb was very clearly angling to get viq killed instead of shinnen

Yes, I thought he was scummy. I watched him, and found out he was an Ophan. After that, I defended him. I started to tell people to lay off him pretty early in the game, too.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, thoughts on Shinnen_no_Me?

He sounds like he hates the world. His face is red, steam shoots out of his ears, and he's popping veins in his forehead.

Yep. Those were my beliefs on Day 1. And I was as convinced that Juls was scum as you were that Kinetic was scum.

It does look like your current strategy is to attack absolutely everybody.

[DrippingGoofball]

7 rage points. Seven.

What is this referring to, pop?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, anything to report?

Sh*t no, nothing to report, except that the scum are pushing me down into easy shooting range, given that I have only 7 HP to begin with, now only 6. They're gunning for the Ophans - dangerous for them, and low HP.

[DrippingGoofball]

Should I say who probably didn't do it, in other words, reveal WHO I was watching?

[DrippingGoofball]

Pop, no reaction to my last post???

Opinion please...

And should I reveal who I watched??? No reaction to my last post???

[DrippingGoofball]

Your rage theory sounds like complete rubbish, but the players that were in the previous versions of this game will have far greater insight than me.

Revealing who I watched may clear that player to some extent, though perhaps not completely, depending on the RP mechanics. Again, players that were in the previous version of the game will better be able to make calculations and draw conclusions than me.

[DrippingGoofball]

4. DGB, any reason why did they pick viqles and zwet over you?

Unless my memory fails, ViQles already had one hurt on him. The scum used 6. Maybe 6 is the maximum they can use at a time. Also, I was then using hurts/heals so they may have felt safe that I wasn't watching.

5. Scum used rage in DGB and Nuwen. What are they trying to do?

I can't back this up with hard data, but I think that the scum is trying to push me down into kill range. If I don't get heals, I'm next to die, this is certain. I have few HPs, and I'm dangerous.

Nuwen was at HP +1. Maybe they're taking him down a notch.

[DrippingGoofball]

Your rage theory sounds like complete rubbish

Why?

I dunno. Ask another player. I'm saying from the perspective, that, if I was creating this game, I wouldn't bother with such a useless mechanic. It's certainly isn't compelling enough to use against Tenchi.

[DrippingGoofball]

Say it.

I watched Xyl (may or may not still be watching), whom I've been vocal in supporting, but suspected like mad, he's been a mega IIoA all game. So I hoped that he would feel confident that I wasn't watching him to make a move, and I was certain to catch him.

He is NOT on the last two cycles of scum hurts reported by Flay.

[DrippingGoofball]

Nuwen was at HP +1. Maybe they're taking him down a notch.

Yes, but why didnt they save it? They are trying something here.[/quote]They had leftover crumbs that they had to use or lose? It's all very WIFOMy, and hugely speculative.

[DrippingGoofball]

Gah, quote tag madness, EBWOP

Yes, but why didnt they save it? They are trying something here.

They had leftover crumbs that they had to use or lose? It's all very WIFOMy, and hugely speculative.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think scum may have decided to not rage Xyl because they can make connections and list his potential "scumbuddies" while not actually killing him.

Maybe they just don't know how many HPs they need to knock off for the kill. This applies not only to Xyl, but all non-Ophanim and non-Seraphim players.

People continuing on the Seraphim attack must think that the scum is hitting players with rage only to heal them after.

[DrippingGoofball]

TL;DR

We need to kill ABR and roflcopter. Neither is town.

vote:
ABR
roflcopter

I'm reserving the 3rd place for later.

[DrippingGoofball]

Scum are going for the win.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

[DrippingGoofball]

I though DGB was lying when he said he only had 7 HP.

Reading roles posted by the mod in the OP is tech.

[DrippingGoofball]

I looked for patterns in who got hurt, but I can't find any.

It's pretty obvious that players in the top tiers are getting hit.

[DrippingGoofball]

And of those in the top tiers, q21, Giuseppe, roflcopter, and ABR were spared. So far. So I don't know if we can read much into that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Im very tempted to say that scum cant use rage on each other.

I can't see why they couldn't. One can always hope that they'd be

that

retarded.

[DrippingGoofball]

And of those in the top tiers, q21, Giuseppe, roflcopter, and ABR were spared. So far. So I don't know if we can read much into that.

I dont understand this.

All the players that got hit were above, at, or near their full power. And generally speaking, players without a great deal of suspicion.

But some players that were above, at, or near their full power did NOT get hit. But they may be later. So I wouldn't draw conclusions from this.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think the question is, is scum stupid enough to confirm town?

If there is a maximum number of RP they can use in one shot, they might want to grind players down. Take tajo, for instance. Chances that the town will bring tajo down within scum shooting range would be very very slim. Right now they can't take tajo out. But bit by bit, they'll get to him. I think the maximum they used so far is 6. I only have 7 HPs. So maybe they're trying to drag me into their shooting range, too.

Why should they worry about confirming townies that are already pretty much viewed as townies already, if it's to better kill them?

[DrippingGoofball]

What are you talking about, DGB?
What does spare mean?

It means they were not hit. I don't think I can explain it any better than I have, maybe someone else can try and help you understand my French.

[DrippingGoofball]

Pop, I explained in this post:

I think the question is, is scum stupid enough to confirm town?

If there is a maximum number of RP they can use in one shot, they might want to grind players down. Take tajo, for instance. Chances that the town will bring tajo down within scum shooting range would be very very slim. Right now they can't take tajo out. But bit by bit, they'll get to him. I think the maximum they used so far is 6. I only have 7 HPs. So maybe they're trying to drag me into their shooting range, too.

Why should they worry about confirming townies that are already pretty much viewed as townies already, if it's to better kill them?

[DrippingGoofball]

But why not just kill these players? Why not wait until they had enough rage to kill DGB or the Fonz? I just wish we know how the scum got rage points in this game...

IF, IF, IF, if there is a maximum number of RPs that they can use. So far, the magic number seems to be 6.

[DrippingGoofball]

ROLF, DONT HURT SERAPHIM TONIGHT. HURT NUWEN. WE HAVE TO KNOW WHO OF YOU IS SCUM.
DO THIS ONLY AND ONLY IF YOU ARE TOWN.

Not a good idea!

When the time comes for us to kill one or the other, the town should decide which one goes first. Nuwen has already absorbed some scum rage points, so she's already weaker than copter. And copter is scummier than Nuwen. In any event, both should start with about the same number of HPs. We decide which to kill first. If that player is scum, then we SPARE (new word for you tajo!) the other. If that player is town, then we dump hurt on the other player.

Not that copter takes any advice... But tajo, don't give him worse advice than what he comes up with himself.

[DrippingGoofball]

I DONT CARE WHO DIES FIRST. I WANT ANY OF THEM DEAD.

It's important, we have to try to kill the scummiest one first. At random, it's probably 50%, according to your theory (and Nuwen seems to agree with this). Maybe if we make an effort to kill the worst one first, odds will be 60% in our favor. Mafia is a game of millimeters. Every little bit counts.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hm, well, judging by my presence on Tajo's big, all-caps list of Non-Town players, I suppose at the very least I should follow his instructions, that I might work towards validating myself in his eyes.

Haha, my sarcasm detector isn't broken, thanks for testing it!

[DrippingGoofball]

Kay, kay, Im relaxing right now.
You prefer Nuwen. Why?

I do think Nuwen should die second, if copter is town. Nuwen has made thoughtful cases, she is willing to die to prove herself, and she suffered scum damage. Copter has been hiding behind his aggressive meta to kill townies without making the effort of trying to convince others of the merit of his cases. He didn't even want to stop double-hurting Xyl! It's as if he's using his power as much as he can, knowing he'll die quickly, but creating as much damage as he can in the meantime. He has suffered no scum damage. He's like a Kamikaze Seraph.

When the time comes, we should make a COLLECTIVE decision, say, with a 24 hour deadline.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hm, well, judging by my presence on Tajo's big, all-caps list of Non-Town players, I suppose at the very least I should follow his instructions, that I might work towards validating myself in his eyes.

Haha, my sarcasm detector isn't broken, thanks for testing it!

I have one question for you.
Please tell me all your Ophan targets until the last one.

Viqles and Xyl. In-between, I made use of hurts and heals.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not so fond of a Seraphim lynch as long as Tenchi is still breathing.

[DrippingGoofball]

I do agree, incidentally that DGB is the most obvscum. Hurting just before the last rage dump, for instance. (Or did she heal? That would be even worse).

Stop smocking crack, Fonzie, I'm not hurting or healing anyone, and haven't for some time. Iammmawatchin' iz whatammmadoin'. Seriously, scum, are you reading?

============================

I have this overwhelming feeling that the scum is jerking us around, and this game is slipping away from us.

roflcopter is doing nothing but going mad against townies, it's like he's trying to use his high HP to do as much damage as he can, knowing that he'll die. He must be laughing just staying alive for so long, and at how none of us have the balls to stand up to him, except potajo, who's now getting into the line of fire for daring to stand up,

ABR bus'ed his buddy day 1, and since then he's doing nothing, NOTHING, but riding the wave, any wave, wave after wave, he doesn't care how large or how small. He makes no cases, only pronouncements, doesn't show his calculations. Why the F is he still alive??? Why is Seraphim dying instead of ABR???

Fonzie is totally not paying attention. He's not the careful, thoughtful Fonzie I know. But townies beware, Fonzie's specialty is to make it to end game. I cannot pin him down. But his conclusions are wrong.

And look at Q21. He's still at +1. Why didn't the scum snipe him?

I stand by my result on Xyl. OF COURSE the scum is going to push a case that we're both scum. And I'm tempted to throw the towel, you bunch of pushover townies, and tell you all to go ahead, why don't you lynch Xyl, lynch me, and you can lose the game to the scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

Dear town,

Please grow balls. Really big, firm, cojones, oozing concentrated testosterone. Also, use your brains. Don't just follow unsupported suggestions, pronouncements, taunts, etc.

Thank you.

Your friend,

Dripping Goofball
PS:

MEGA-CASES

coming up. I'm going to knock the scum out of the game like styrofoam bowling pins. My 'nads are bustin'. How are yours?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, whats the difference between Seraphim and ABR? They have been doing the same thing alll game

I had to make supper for the family, clean up, took a lenghty phone call. I'm starting now. I'll try to make a couple of deep, deep cases tonight - and some more tomorrow (but I have a lot of RL stuff on my plate), maybe having to continue into Friday. But I want to get this done, because I know the second I'm at 6 HP, the scum will finish me up in one swoop the second they have the power to do it. I also want to look and some crap cases that I believe the scum have been pushing.

I really do think that we're being lead, because there's no way we can be that unlucky unless the scum is smooth talking us into going to the slaughter ourselves.

We have tons of info, over 130 pages, I'm pretty sure I can find order in the chaos and zero give us a long awaited break.

[DrippingGoofball]

The amount of setting up mislynches which is going on here is making my head spin.

It's totally AMAZING how a bunch of players are ignoring the REAL scum, and trying to take down townies.

They're grinding at potajo, THE single most pro-town player in the lot.

They're saying YOU're scum, despite my watch, and I stand by my results.

If after they get YOU, and after you flip town, they're going to get me. All I need is for ONE SINGLE PLAYER to give me a hurt before the scum pounces.

I can't believe q21 is apologizing to ABR.

I've seen crap case after crap case. I've been kinda muted by the vulnerability of my role, low HP, prime target. But I've made it this far. And now that I'm here, and the scum are setting up mislynches, it's WAR to the death.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: Do you have a watch result from the Tenchi death?

I know who didn't do it. But I'm very early into my watch cycle, and I don't want this player to know I'm watching.

[DrippingGoofball]

Me neither. But he responded exactly as I did to Tenchi's death and it seemed genuine. Tenchi's death shifted most of my views on who is scum and town.

The most genuine of all was potajo. Now, THAT, was a genuine response. I don't see any others as genuine at all.

Anyway. No more distractions, I'm working on that case and I have, like, 514 windows open.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm trying to re-read without prejudice. I'm noting everything that I find scummy for any player currently surviving. I'm at page 20, and I've got 5 .txt files for different players. Not all are scum, but like I said, I'm taking note of

everything

.

Would someone care to look at the interactions between Shinnen and ABR prior to page 14? That's not very many posts, only for the two players. It's an easy job. What do you see?

[DrippingGoofball]

I re-read myself, and realised i once had q21 as scum, and can't remember why i dropped it. Zwet flipping town reflects a lot on him, and no-one commenting on it makes me more suspicious.

I may have a surprise for you regarding this.

[DrippingGoofball]

HURT: Xylthixlm

bah bah sheep

[DrippingGoofball]

Hurt Xyl

As promised.

bah bah bah bah more sheep

[DrippingGoofball]

I see you still have nothing original to contribute to the game.

Like you do?

Oh, yes, actually, pushing townie lynch after townie lynch. Xyl is not guilty of using rage points, and plenty of rage points were unleashed under my watch. None were attributable to him.

Is it a coincidence that after your day 1 bus, we're burnt through 10 townies in row? You ran out of town cred long ago.

[DrippingGoofball]

Its oficial i suck at this game. Can we still win this? Fron ny cell

No, we lost.

If we kill once a day, we get around 8 mislynches.
If we kill once every 2 days, we get around 7 mislynches.
If we kill once every 4 days, we get around 6 mislynches.
If we kill once every 7 days, we get around 5 mislynches.
If we kill once every 10 days, we get get around 4 mislynches.
If we kill once every 14 days, we get get around 3 mislynches.

We start with ~8 mislynches.
Lynch a townie: -1 mislynch.
Lynch a scum: +1 mislynch.
Scum get a kill: -1 mislynch.
When the number of mislynches remaining goes to 0, town loses.

Obviously, we want to lynch correctly, so our mislynch buffer goes up. But it's important to know how many mislynches are left because it tells us how badly we could possibly do at scumhunting and still not lose. In this case, the slower we go, the more kills scum get, the less buffer have, and the better we will need to be at scumhunting to compensate.

We've exceeded the number of mislynches we can get away with.

I suggest you get your act together, poptartajo, and stop listening to the people that have led us to 10 mislynches in a row. Get a clue. The people you think are town, are scum. They're playing you like a violin.

At this point, we're only continuing to play to save our honor, and by this, I mean not look like retarded pushovers when the scum wins on the power of a day 1 bus. We're really idiots for falling for that one.

[DrippingGoofball]

10 townies in a row?

Unfuckinbelievable....

Fresh impetus please... DGB, I believe you have such a post being readied..

With great haste I urge it to appear here..

Likewise, the only players I trust are potajo, and Firestarter. I'm leery of q21, not on account of his posts, but rather how he hasn't been hit by rage points, despite being high up on the HP ladder. I'm on page 25 of my re-read, I have to clean out the outdoors for the spring, and tonight I have a metalwork class. I'll try to plug in more hours this afternoon. I won't re-read so carefully past page 100 or so, because that's still all fresh in our minds.

Why don't you two take a really close, methodical look at ABR, copter, q21 and Fonz? We're so totally bamboozled, we have to flip all assumptions upside down.

[DrippingGoofball]

Albert and fonz feel town to me. Rolf has survived enough. Intent to hurt : rolf.

Feelings haven't been panning out in this game. We need cold, hard facts. If you haven't learnt a lesson about following your feelings, read their posts in isolation.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have Zeal Points.

I was watching you. That was the 'surprise' that Fonz asked me about. I felt you were distancing from ABR on purpose so that I wouldn't watch you, and you'd be the one sending rage points.

I hope Zeal Points actually exist. A vig-like flavor kinda make sense, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Especially since the scum is doing so well, there's no point in them pulling a dumb gambit like that. Also, your boatloads of HP should be provable.

Fonz has been playing us all game and that I should wait until tomorrow, hurt him and then finish him. Especially after his reasonless hurt on me.

Totally.

I'm on page 30, and I have to make supper. So far, when looking at objective data rather than gut, ABR is the scummiest - by miles. Just recently, why did he hurt me, out of the blue??? It makes no more sense than Fonz with this ridiculous hurt of you. What was up with that?

Notice that my main scum suspects aren't going after each other. They did their Day 1 bus of Shinnen, and they've coasted on town cred all game.

As for tajo. Tajo is totally guileless.

[DrippingGoofball]

Q21.. think about this... clearly.

Krap. I weep. I weep.

I've been saying for a million years that copter is on a one-man suicide mission to mow down the town.

But does anyone ever listen to me? No. Maybe I need a more serious looking avatar. Yeah, it must be the avatar.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why the fuck did fonz hurt s21 and albert hurt dgb? Fron ny cell.

Because they're scum, like I've been saying all along.

[DrippingGoofball]

Now that we're thinking outside the box, perhaps roflcopter is some sort of Survivor/SK-Seraph. Maybe he has points that he can use, too, like the Zeal Points? That Nuwen/copter dichotomy might be a false one, if copter was an evil Seraph with an individualistic win condition. Maybe neither has buddies, because one is town, and the other a Survivor/SK.

[DrippingGoofball]

thats more than a little ridiculous

I take this to mean I'm correct.

@ q21. True. But it might explain some patterns we see.

[DrippingGoofball]

this is loyal vs. fallen angels.

So? A fallen angel that's not part of a main group of fallen angels would be equivalent to a SK. no?

[DrippingGoofball]

dgb, even if copter was a SK, what would you have the town do?

Give him all their heals in the hope that he changes his evil ways, of course.

[DrippingGoofball]

That is correct. That you would even bring up rof-SK is hella scummy, because any neutral alignment is going to play to kill fallen angels right now.

So we should let copter live because after mowing the town down, he's now going to be a good little serial killing rabbit and hit the scum instead?

Hahahha

I don't know what you two are up to, but it's unholy.

[DrippingGoofball]

I should get some flavor if Q21 uses his power under my watch.

[DrippingGoofball]

The re-read is taking me a lot of time, so what I'm going to so is to post my analysis to page 30. Everything important is usually played out early. It's going to give us something to chew on while I continue with pages 30-60.

[DrippingGoofball]

Page 2: Friendly banter exclusive between Shinnen and ABR.

Hoopla starts our really scummy, first to random hurt a player, and when told this is a bad strategy by Cybele, Kinetic and tajo, defends it. It takes a lot of work from these 3 players, but they get her to change her ways.

ABR doesn't comment on this. He does complain that "I don't understand the healing of players that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?" He opposes something that makes it harder for the scum to kill townies. Yet, he somehow persuades two players to heal

him

.

On page 6, potatojo posts the following votecount:

Kinetic. 5(Tajo, ABR, Shinnen, Cybele, rolf)
Rolf 2 (Hoopla, Tenchi)
Xyl 2 (viqles, zwet)
Hoopla 2(q21, Tenchi)
Viqles 1 (ABR, Kinetic)
Cybele 1 (Kinetic)

Look. ABR, and Shinnen, whom I believe he bus'ed on day 1, AND copter, are all over Kinetic. Why? Again, they have to start to grind on Kinetic early in the game, because it'll be an uphill battle taking him down.

Page 8-11. ABR wants to force everyone to choose between Viqles(town), Xyl(soon-t-be-town), and Shinnen. "DGB, thoughts on Shinnen_no_Me?" HA-AH! Since there was NO case against Shinnen at that time, the request could only be a trap After I express my lack of enthusiasm for Shinnen, he decides to include me in his 'scumteam.' Why? Because ABR is scum, and he wants to tie me to Shinnen.

I urge all players to check

Page 13: Shinnen announces intent to hurt ABR. Bus! Bus! Distancing! Bus!

Page 16: Shinnen wrote: "Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr." ONE OF THESE IS SCUM. And it's not Xyl.

"FOS Juls - Your case against Xyl is OMGUS, he isn't even pursuing his attacks against you. You have yet to contribute anything else."

SPECIAL NOTE: ABR ATTEMPTS TO GET TOWN CRED FOR FONZ AND HIMSELF
"zwet case --> too light.
ward case --> non-existent.
shinen case --> no one is backing it except me and Fonz
Xyl case --> non-existent"

Page 19: Defends WWishbone early on, and picks a fight with Xyl-town. Sounds like ABR knows WWishbone's alignment.

Page 20: "Walt, you better hurt shinnen, hoopla or zwet." More bus'ing.

Shinnen has hurt two people. copter, and ABR. I believe these are her buddies.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#1562060 ABR taunts me for my lack of hurts, which, as he should be able to guess, has something to do with my being an Ophan. He's fishing for Ophanim.

ABR 'tests' me by demanding that I hurt Shinnen (which I know will not be a valid action) but he knows that scum could administer a secret rage point, and make it look like I lied.

WLC-town speaks from the netherworld: " I have a really bad feeling about ABR. He seems to be manipulating. And you're only manipulating if you're scum, otherwise you just have to argue and investigate."

Keeps with the Shinnen bus, even though Shinnen hasn't posted in a while: "We need people to kill Shinnen instead of dragging this out."

Page 24: " I'm pretty much willing to lynch DGB because this whole exchange between Kinetic and DGB looks like it was set up by scum."

Get his Kuato Juls to hurt Shinnen.

If there's any doubt with my assertion that Shinnen wasn't obvscum, viQlEs said: "I read something that made me think that Shinnen was more likely town then hoopla"
Also, WaltWishbone thought Shinnen was town. I too, got caught in the mood of the moment, but now that I read the game again, there was no reason.

Page 27: More from WLC-town "What I don’t like about ABR is that he presents himself in a somewhat commanding tone. He gives directions to people. But he doesn’t necessarily follow that direction, and takes on a different direction himself. He also uses special text with his ‘hurt’, which is something that I absolutely don’t trust."

Here, ABR tries to use his Day 1 bus town cred to drown me: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 85#1564185 - the contest is unfair, because it's clear ABR knew Shinnen's alignment, and I didn't.

LOOK! The scum are fighting amongst themselves to see who gets the most town cred for bus'ing Shinnen:

also, fonz and albert, stop trying to take all the credit for the shinnen kill, some of that shit is mine.

I didn't take credit

anywhere

, and roflcopter, make yourself scarce as I lynch DGB without your consent.

eh, its not totally without my consent, i'm just not gonna help as i have more important things to do with my fury. i see where you're coming from though. and i guess that was fonz who took the credit for both of you, my bad. but yes i'll keep score

Rofl: I attacked her first, and without wavering. It was I who pointed out the reasons why she was scum. I don't think it's wrong to say that i deserve a substantial portion of the credit. (You hurt Hoopla first, and went on to say you'd hurt whichever was closer to death- you only really went for Shinnen after she hurt you).

Page 29: "Players I trust:
Fonz - Copter - Xyl - Tajo - Nuwen"

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1564270 Here, copter makes a case on Hoopla based almost entirely on Hoopla not believing the Shinnen wagon. That's how they're using their town cred; to target more townies. ABR is a step ahead of copter, and he asks Hoopla specifically for her opinion on me.

More abuse of illicitly acquired town cred:

If Shinnen flips scum, I'll bet at least half the scum is in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt.

If this is what you think, then you should probably lay off of me until we kill some of the players that are "in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt". Starting with Hoopla.

Page 29. Copter and ABR gang up on Hoopla. Hoopla is being accused for missing out on the Shinnen lynch, and also for attacking ABR.

[DrippingGoofball]

Summary of ABR case: It is clear to me that Shinnen was a classic Day 1 bus maneuvre. The scum kill one of their own, then discredit every player that did not participate in the bus, and use their freshly acquired town cred to start killing off townies. The early camaraderie with Shinnen, and the fierce wagon based on little evidence supports this. There are signs of Fonzie, copter and ABR wanting to make sure the town knows that the 'credit' for the Shinnen lynch goes to them, and they have a little tiff over it. Other players have repeatedly noticed that ABR keeps pushing on certain players, but hurting others. It's as if he's trying to spread out the damage to help the scum pick off townies. He's pushing the townies to spread the damage. Also, these three players don't hurt each other, so they still have a lot of HP.

CONCLUSION: ABR must die.

[DrippingGoofball]

Right on page 4, roflcopter hurts Kinetic, not waiting for the vote system to kick in. THat's the second hurt of the game. Now, Kinetic is a good town player, so, you have to start hurting and discredditing him early.

Later, still on page 4, copter writes: "i am in favor of everyone who's pussyfooting around with fake votes just hurting [Kinetic] dead instead."

On page 5, "also, tajo, might as well count me in the votecount for kinetic, since i'm just gonna keep hurting him." I URGE everyone to read Kinetic up to page 5. Did Kinetic do or say anything remotely scummy? No. Seraphim noted: "Rofl's crazy attacking is noted." But have we done anything all game? Beingn total pushovers doesn't count for "doing something."

Shinnen makes her first content post of the game on page 7. What does she do? She votes copter. Ah... if you're going to distance, distance early and often! Otherwise, nothing strikingly scummy about it.

Again on page 7, copter tunnels on Kinetic. "anyone who wants to join the brute squad, make your intentions known by hurting kinetic the next time you can take an action." And look at Kinetic's lucid response: "The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive." More on page 8: "i wish everyone hadn't wasted their action healing people so they could be hurting kinetic instead."

On page 12, copter switches from Kinetic to Seraphim, another townie. He hurts Seraphim, and starts another of his famous townie tunnels.

On page 13, copter continues on more townies: poptajo is losing all town credit at an incredible rate. seraphim and hoopla need to die post haste, and every 24 hours i will be hurting seraphim until he is dead, then i'll start on hoopla. hoopla healing kinetic is extra scummy.

Also, Seraphim states that he intends to hurt copter. Seraph caught scum and he's going to have to die.

Page 16: Shinnen wrote: "Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr." ONE OF THESE IS SCUM. And it's not Xyl.

Shinnen has hurt two people. copter, and ABR. I believe these are her buddies.

Page 22: "so one of me and shin still has to be scum" OK, if there is only one scum Seraph, that's actually a TOWN tell. But if there are two scum Seraphs, then it's a mega scumtell. That one is up in the air.

copter rages against Seraphim-town
copter rages against Kinetic-town
copter rages against Hoopla-town
hammers Shinnen.
This is VERY VERY DAMNING:
"shh... be a good scum and die without any more wifom" Get that??? Shut up now, Shinnen, before you give your buddies away.

Then, copter realizes he screwed up: "oh you're probably right, but i was talking to hoopla. she's the one who should be a good scum and die." But read the context; there's no way this is to hoopla. NO WAY.

LOOK! The scum are fighting amongst themselves to see who gets the most town cred for bus'ing Shinnen:

also, fonz and albert, stop trying to take all the credit for the shinnen kill, some of that shit is mine.

I didn't take credit

anywhere

, and roflcopter, make yourself scarce as I lynch DGB without your consent.

eh, its not totally without my consent, i'm just not gonna help as i have more important things to do with my fury. i see where you're coming from though. and i guess that was fonz who took the credit for both of you, my bad. but yes i'll keep score

Rofl: I attacked her first, and without wavering. It was I who pointed out the reasons why she was scum. I don't think it's wrong to say that i deserve a substantial portion of the credit. (You hurt Hoopla first, and went on to say you'd hurt whichever was closer to death- you only really went for Shinnen after she hurt you).

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1564270 Here, copter makes a case on Hoopla based almost entirely on Hoopla not believing the Shinnen wagon. That's how they're using their town cred; to target more townies.

[DrippingGoofball]

Summary of copter case: Many parallels with ABR, especially on the Shinnen bus, with the additional sin that copter zeroes in on the players that most of us think are town. Attacks are not even reasoned. There's something very odd going on, role-wise. There are connections to ABR (stronger than those between ABR and Fonzie), but in many ways he acts like a fearless free agent. I see Fonzie and ABR going after players for which they think they can garner town support, while copter takes out the players that will be harder to lynch by town concensus. He grinds them to within rage point range, and they get picked off.

Conclusion: Copter must die.

[DrippingGoofball]

In Fonz's first substantial post, in addition to voting Kinetic along with the rest of the scumbags on page 8, Fonz calls for intent to hurt Shinnen on account of this:

Heal: Seraphim.

Heal me back!

Also,

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.

GAHHHHH! REEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAACH!

Call intent to hurt Shinnen no me

This is bus'ing. Being very sure that another player is scum based on flimsy evidence.

In the next post, Fonzie declares that he's against healing.

Page 16, Fonz hurts Shinnen.

SPECIAL NOTE: ABR ATTEMPTS TO GET TOWN CRED FOR FONZ AND HIMSELF
"zwet case --> too light.
ward case --> non-existent.
shinen case --> no one is backing it except me and Fonz
Xyl case --> non-existent"

After Shinnen hurts copter, Fonz hits the roof: "Shinnen just hurt a previously uninjured player. KILL HER!"

If there's any doubt with my assertion that Shinnen wasn't obvscum, viQlEs said: "I read something that made me think that Shinnen was more likely town then hoopla"
Also, WaltWishbone thought Shinnen was town. I too, got caught in the mood of the moment, but now that I read the game again, there was no reason.

Page 27:
In this post, Fonz ridicules WLC for saying: "What I don’t like about ABR is that he presents himself in a somewhat commanding tone. He gives directions to people. But he doesn’t necessarily follow that direction, and takes on a different direction himself. He also uses special text with his ‘hurt’, which is something that I absolutely don’t trust." Fonz says that it's because WLC just doesn't like ABR's personality.

LOOK! The scum are fighting amongst themselves to see who gets the most town cred for bus'ing Shinnen:

also, fonz and albert, stop trying to take all the credit for the shinnen kill, some of that shit is mine.

I didn't take credit

anywhere

, and roflcopter, make yourself scarce as I lynch DGB without your consent.

eh, its not totally without my consent, i'm just not gonna help as i have more important things to do with my fury. i see where you're coming from though. and i guess that was fonz who took the credit for both of you, my bad. but yes i'll keep score

Rofl: I attacked her first, and without wavering. It was I who pointed out the reasons why she was scum. I don't think it's wrong to say that i deserve a substantial portion of the credit. (You hurt Hoopla first, and went on to say you'd hurt whichever was closer to death- you only really went for Shinnen after she hurt you).

[DrippingGoofball]

Summary of Fonz case: Of all three players, one of the most obvious bus'ers, on account of his overly strong accusations based on extremely weak evidence, followed by bickering to get his share of town cred. Defends ABR against WLC-town with ridicule. The case against Fonzie is shorter than the case against ABR and copter, but Fonzie is a much more clever, and sneaky player.

Conclusion: Fonz must die.

[DrippingGoofball]

Nuwen:

Page 8
"I can get behind a vIQles hurtfest, but Coptor and DGBs omgtown and omgscum proclaims still irk the shit out of me." Well, that's the point, to irk the scum.

Page 26
Late on the Shinnen wagon.

Every bus needs a scum late comer, which might be Nuwen. I'm going to mention the hammer on WWB that a few people named as THE main reason why Nuwen may be scum, even though it happens later in the game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Summary of case against Nuwen: Late on Shinnen, not liking aggressive players, hammer on WWB. I think the biggest issue with Nuwen is rolebased, that is, if copter flips town, then Nuwen must be scum. The very recent realization that we have some powerful town roles puts a bit of a monkey wrench in that theory. If killing Seraphim is a 50-50 gamble of hitting scum, then it would be like shooting fish in a barrel, and I don't think Flay would lack the foresight to give the scum away on highly visible role info, like being an obv Seraphim on account of the italicized blade flavor text.

Conclusion: behavior mostly town, may need to be killed on rolebased deductions.

[DrippingGoofball]

populattajo;

Page 8:
"Now start scumhunting like your other games. Its not different.
Vote : Shinnen.
Die scum die. "

Page 15 http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 86#1560486 Here again, he calls for Shinnen to die, calling Shinnen obvscum. THere was nothing obscum about SHinnen.

Page 16: Shinnen wrote: "Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr." ONE OF THESE IS SCUM. And it's not Xyl.

Page 24: "Being an Ophanim doesnt mean obvtown, btw." Keeps waffling throughout the game on this concept like a mad toggle button.

[DrippingGoofball]

Summary of case against populartajo:

Part of Shinnen bus. Maybe have drunk the scum's kool-aid. Also, Shinnen wrote: "Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr." And I don't think she put three buddies in there. One, maybe two, but not three. Tajo's reactions later in game, that aren't part of my notes above, reassured me that he was town, despite mindless scum following. That's, however, a subjective evaluation, and others may hold different opinions.

Conclusion: I'm not in favor of killing potajo, certainly not before copter/ABR.

[DrippingGoofball]

Uh, dude... If HE HAS zeal points, he has to be telling the truth.

If q21 uses his zeal points during my watch, I may be able to confirm that they are 'zeal points' rather than 'rage points.'

[DrippingGoofball]

Summary of case against q21:

'Page 24: Joins in late on the Shinnen bus." was all I got. I have mental notes that q21 was distancing heavily from ABR/copter.

Conclusion: I hope to be able to confirm his claim.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have no case on Giuseppe. He was pretty much V/LA. To be fair, I'm going to give priority to analyzing his behavior pages 30-60.

[DrippingGoofball]

What I would suggest is that this being true makes a 2-2 seraph distribution FAR more likely.

My beef with this is that it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Flay has done this setup in smaller format before. Would he paint the scum with obvious targets?

How many Seraphs are there? Four? We kill all four at game start, bang-bang-bang-bang and we hit 2 scum?

[DrippingGoofball]

OK, DGB, firstly you're wrong, and secondly, here's the non-subjective reason for why. You're claiming that me, ABR, and Rofl are ALL scum. If we're all scum- why do we get into an argument in-thread that's completely pointless? Here's what I actually did.

Those are suspicions. A lot of people

looked

like they were bus'ing Shinnen. It's impossible that all of them were. But since I don't know which player was actually bus'ing, or which was just gung-ho for a quicklynch to reduce rage points, I mark everyone with the 'quite possibly bus'ing' label. You got marked.

Defends ABR against WLC-town with ridicule.
.

You shut him up by implying that WLC just didn't like ABR's personality.

[DrippingGoofball]

That assumes we massclaim at start.

Seraphs use that italicized flavor text that gives them away.

[DrippingGoofball]

Summary of case against q21:

'Page 24: Joins in late on the Shinnen bus." was all I got. I have mental notes that q21 was distancing heavily from ABR/copter.

Conclusion: I hope to be able to confirm his claim.

With little support, took town-zwet into range to be killed with a handful of rage points.

Middle of the pack, playing so as not to stand out.

True. Agreed. Please add to case.

[DrippingGoofball]

I defended ABR early on. I did. Later on I was completely at a loss as to what to think, but had players i thought were obvscum (Seraphim) to go for first.

And what do you think now?

ABR gave me a hurt. One more, and the scum will snipe me out of existence.

You gave your most recent hurt to q21, unsupported.

Please justify your thinking.

[DrippingGoofball]

And when I say "Please justify your thinking," what I mean is "Why are you letting ABR and copter get away with it, and why are you helping them spread hurts to multiply possible rage point targets?"

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not going to, because see above: if q21 is scum, the town is screwed anyway.

I'm going to find out.

[DrippingGoofball]

We were down to 9 alive, with likely four scum. Essentially, the town were in dire straits. I didn't think we had time to piss about with calling hurts, or voting, or any of that- i had to identify the most likely scum, and get killing him quickly, and hope that i'd be able to drag the remnants of the town with me.

That would be easier to believe if you had made a serious CASE against q21. Instead, it looks like you're ignoring the big obvscums that have pushed 10 townies in row to the slaughterhouse.

[DrippingGoofball]

I did make a case. Middle of the pack. Singlehandedly killed an Ophan, and everyone completely ignored him.

That's not exactly a slam dunk case.

When players call one player (rofl) out for a certain type of behaviour, but everyone ignores another who's acted similarly, that's a strong associative tell.

Are you seriously comparing q21 to roflcopter, and finding q21 scummier?

In case you hadn't noticed, EVERYONE has hurt lots of townies. That's why ten town are dead.

And who has been most influential in encouraging players to take these townies to the guillotine? Please answer this question, it's not rhetorical.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'd like to be able to see the nature of Q21's zeal points before my watch on him expires.

[DrippingGoofball]

abr is doing a damn good job of convincing people i'm his scumpartner

and a fine job of distancing from nuwen to boot

Holy WIFOM, Batman!

[DrippingGoofball]

abr is doing a damn good job of convincing people i'm his scumpartner

and a fine job of distancing from nuwen to boot

this post is mostly for use after my imminent demise. i can only hope i live long enough to get my last hit in on fonz.

Humor me please. Why Fonz over ABR?

[DrippingGoofball]

Who's gonna distance at this point in the game? Are you kidding me?

WIFOM ALERT

[DrippingGoofball]

This cannot be ignored....

Gah! That's what I been trying to tell people ALL GAME! Finally!!!!

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh Goofball, my Goofball!

I checked and noticed you put player names in your italicized text with high frequency. Whassup?

[DrippingGoofball]

Am I missing something here?

Yes. I am an Ophanim, which means that I can detect secret actions. If q21 gets his act together and makes an action before my watch expires, I'll be able to test his claim.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ah, ok. And you think you can tell the difference between rage and zeal, if there actually is such a difference?

I haven't a clue, but earlier in the game, I caught Viqles, another Ophan, in an action, and that action was clearly described as Viqles watching another player, so I'm hopeful.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why? What's your meta on ABR as far as bussing goes?

ABR plays to outlive his buddies and be the last man standing. I'm sure he'll give you links to all his bus'ing adventures if you ask.

[DrippingGoofball]

q21: Interesting. I'm not really sure why you first hurt Nuwen and then unloaded your firepower onto Albert, though.

Everyone else: Is it likely that each scum could have 9 rage points stored up now? I guess I'll see when I get caught up...how much rage have the scum used to date?

The maximum observed was 6.

I got my confirmation re: q21's action. That ABR was targeted was mentioned. No mention of rage, and no mention of zeal, but a neutral word in-between.

[DrippingGoofball]

firestarter is more scum than ever for forcing him to use his zeal[...].

Where did that happen? I must have missed it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Just catching up to the flurry of activity.

I agree that Fonz should die first.

As for who goes after Fonz, I feel as if the pieces of my finished puzzle have fallen on the floor, and I have to start again. ABR not flipping scum changes quite a few things, and everyone's reactions today are very important and revealing, as they are in late game stages.

Each lynch depends on the outcome of the previous one, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to let the scum know our plans 5 lynches ahead.

[DrippingGoofball]

Q21's plan is to go down the player list from scummiest to towniest, and leave the Seraphs for last. Right?

[DrippingGoofball]

Im not going to be listening to peoples gut instincts anymore, that is the sole reason why we are where we are.

Exactly.

When we get emotional, we can't be methodical. And we desperately need to be methodical.

I laid out a case against Fonz, after which he seemed to have lost his footing and started to waffle and change his mind about things unexpectedly.

If he flips scum, we'll all examine his posts for clues, and decide on who goes next.

[DrippingGoofball]

dgb, i strongly believe fonz is town.
i cant believe you are not seeing rolf/yos=hiuseppe relaton?

I'm not seeing any of this at all. I'm not seeing fonz as town, and I'm not seeing copter+Yos.

[DrippingGoofball]

yes, and you should be 4th on the list, not second

I agree with this

in principle

, but it's nuts to plan lynch #4 without knowing the outcomes of #1, #2, and #3.

[DrippingGoofball]

fire, dont let rolf convince you with this suckingballs techniques

I swear, one more allusion to testicles and I'm kicking you in the groin with a hurt.

[DrippingGoofball]

im going to my second surgery right now
wish me luck

hold me back... hold me back... he's asking for it!!!!!

*good luck and go easy on the morphine*

[DrippingGoofball]

The lynch list's order doesn't matter, since its entirety will end up inevitably.

The order matters because the sooner we hit scum, the fewer RP they'll unleash from now until end game. It also matters because we'll be able to see connections between scum and other players earlier on.

[DrippingGoofball]

The Fonz
Firestarter
Tajo
Yos
DGB

I agree with this if only to end this pointless discussion. I don't think we should telegraph our intentions to the scum. Also we're bound to change this order when players start to flip scum.

More importantly, should I bother watching, or do we need my hurt input more to stymie the scum rage point acquisition rate?

[DrippingGoofball]

Can someone point me to the case against Fonz?

These are my notes from the first 30 pages:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 47#1595947
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 48#1595948

What is also interesting is Fonz' behavior

after

I made that case. Check it out. It's not a lot of posts. Let's see if we independently get the same impression.

[DrippingGoofball]

Anyone have a problem with me hurting Tajo right now?

If Fonz is scum, he's getting more RPs on sunday. We should get cracking.

[DrippingGoofball]

Heal: q21

Since him being town is basically the only way we can possibly win. Hopefully i'm not already dead.

Why would you be dead? The scum has unleashed its 6 RPs on Q21. Stop pretending.

[DrippingGoofball]

Let's get a move on this plan.

hurt: Fonz

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh and once last thing: the fact that i haven't dumped rage basically proves me town. But meh.

Uh?

[DrippingGoofball]

@poptartajo

All I know is that if we hurt each other, as you suggest, as soon as a TOWN player is within 6 points of being dead, the scum will strike with rage points. However, a SCUM player within 6 rage points of being dead will survive. So that part of your plan (I don't even understand the rest) is tantamount to letting the scum kill all the townies as they please.

[DrippingGoofball]

tajo really gave outed himself the last few pages.

hurt: populartajo

Too soon. Flay

[DrippingGoofball]

hurt: populartajo

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm betting the scum used the rage they had built up from last week on me on Sunday morning and the amount they got at noon on me just recently. I would appreciate 3-4 heals to keep me at awesome hit point levels. I suggest that rofl, nuwen, myself and DGB should just carry on hurting and that each of yos, pop and FS heal me once before resuming the hurt.

I'm hoping that at this point the scum have expended their RP for the week. If that's the case then their last gambit has failed. We can win this.

Yeah, they've got to be empty by now. We should finish tajo before he makes us laugh with more schemes that will guarantee a scum win, then we can start a heal cycle on Q21. After he flips scum it'll buy us time to analyze his player interactions.

[DrippingGoofball]

After Pops continued arguments against the plan, and still actually going along with it by hurting the fonz, I thought Fonz was gonna flip town.

Ill continue with giving you heals Q21.

What are you talking about???

We need to finish tajo, then we heal Q21.

You're the only one (except tajo) that has hurts/heals right now.

[DrippingGoofball]

ALSO, IN EXTRA BIG FONT, LET THE OTHER AREL CLAIM SO THAT GUY DIES AFTER ME COMING UP LOYAL AREL.
THERE CANT BE THREE LOYAL ARELS.

Thanks, if you're town, 100% the remaining Arel isn't going to claim, whether he's scum or not.

Gah, I hate this game.

[DrippingGoofball]

what i've been trying to explain to tajo for some time now is that there is no f-ing way a scum arel at this point will claim anything except cherub.

Unless he's visually impaired...

[DrippingGoofball]

because if all 3-4 scum are kept alive when all townies besides you, dgb and q21, are dead is prob not a good idea.
how many hps do you think q21, you and dgb can have together FACING a horde of scum that can hurt in thread and use rage?
Do you think that scum will be likely to HURT each other, when all that is left is scumbags?
there is a reason why this plan is HEAVILY and majority approved. Do you think scum would be supporting it if apparently it gives town an auto-win?

OK, do you have a better plan? Possibly one that doesn't lead to a scum auto-win, like your old one. Show all your calculations.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hurt : rolf

Die scum die.

You just healed Q21. That's not gonna work.

[DrippingGoofball]

its late, Goofball, scum have control of the thread.
they had it so much ago when you stopped listening to me.

I have a sinking feeling.

[DrippingGoofball]

also this is the time when everyone but these 3 players (dgb and nuwen and q21) should be put to L-1. You can add rolf if you want but its obvious nuwen is the town seraph.

Personally I'm not buying the obligatory scum seraph, when we have town roles that aren't normal. I would believe that the scum has, like the town, some unorthodox roles.

We are facing MAJORITY of scum right now with my death. If we put everyone at L-1 then we are likely to hit scum and some unnecesary townies.

I'm not sure that's a good idea, it'll take time, and the scum might recharge before we get our act together. That's why I said, 'show your calculations.' Mafia is a game of inches, we can't leave anything to chance.

After all, scum are not using rage on everyone but q21. But you guys are deaf.

I'm listening. I take that to mean Q21 is town. But he says he has boatloads of HPs, so he's probably OK.

[DrippingGoofball]

why do you think this plan is supported by almost all the players alive if it gives town an auto-win, when we have alive 3-4 scumbags?

This does give me pause.

however if we put everyone to L-1, besides you, q21 and rolf-nuwen, we are likely to kill any scumbag that wants to play smart. yes, scum will snipe town within their rage, but arent we preventing them to go to our savior q21?

I don't see this working, though.

I have to think.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm pretty sure one of copter or tajo is scum.

Both are pulling at my heartstrings right now.

The first 80% of the game, I was sure copter was scum. The last 20%, he seems to have been more careful.

Tajo felt town all game, until recently, when he started to cook up scum auto-win plans.

[DrippingGoofball]

if tajo is town, it'll become all too obvious that i am also town when i'm on the losing side of a hurt race against the scum.

lolwhat?

My reaction exactly.

[DrippingGoofball]

you say you are town because you are hurt?
lolwhat?

What are you saying?

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Tajo & copter

Please evaluate the following probabilities. The total must be equal to 100%

tajo town + copter town = ___%
tajo town + copter scum = ___%
tajo scum + copter town = ___%
tajo scum + copter scum = ___%

[DrippingGoofball]

oh look yos is attacking me of omgus when I attacked him first, even when he was Giuseppe.

He's replaced in a 135 page, fast moving game.