War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Firestarter]

Hellooo Guys!!

Reading now, will post my thoughts soonish.

[Firestarter]

I hope Firestarter isn't going to try to read all 56 pages.

Is there anyhting specific you'd have me concentrate on Xyl?

TBH, the game has fairly motored through in the space 8 days or so, and 55 pages is quite a read..

However, I will be reading each page, but I plan to post in intervals, rather than reading the whole thing, thus creating a short story in 1 post.

You'll hear from me soon enough.

[Firestarter]

Read up to P.29.

Suspicions>> WaltWishBone, Kinetic & vIQles.. in that order.

Most likely town >> Fonz, ABR, Q21, Rofl, Pop...

Unsure >> Xyl, Seraphim, DGB..

Other reads too faint to mention.

Will continue with the reading to take me up to the most present post tomorrow.
27 pages left to read

Goodnight...

[Firestarter]

Ok, 24 hours have passed since my last post, and I havent gotten round to reading the 27 pages from last night.

I have however, read/skimed the 10 new pages, you guys move fast..

Kinetic got my goat in the first set of pages I read, particularly the parts where it seems he didn't read the original game, yet "had a feeling secret hurts were part of this game."
This still bugs me, even though Im getting the impression most are leaning town on him. Again, I have yet to read pages 30 - 57, something must have changed.
But that point bugs me. Sticks out.
vIQles is playing this game exactly as he did the first mini... Writing, but saying nothing.


On the last 10 pages....

I dont believe Walts dying agenda posts were pre planned.
I do believe that scum also miscalculated hurts and attempted to remove me with a lightning wagon before I made my entrance, proper, and utilising Rage hurts.
This of course, applies only if the same mechanic is involved with this game as in the first mini.
I am totally in favour of the buddy plan.. Mostly because what Ive read means Fonz is town.

Im very much in favour of

Intending to hurt Seraphim

Mostly because of what Ive read on him in the last 10 pages.

Scummy lurkerhurt, scummy after-posts.

I want to read the rest of the pages before I get heavily involved in this game, theres a big hole for me to fill, but ill do it promptly.
I understand the need to get this game motoring.

[Firestarter]

Im not going to be posting thoughts on the game thus far right now guys...
There is a much bigger problem to face before that...

If what I state below comes to fruition, I will then make cases on my list of scum people when needed..
A huge post containing thoughts likely to be heard before will not help right now. Ive read most of the game, but Order needs to restored before we continue.
Order is Towns friend.

10 days have passed, and 4 townies are dead...

Sorry, but thats scandalous.
Ive re-assessed what I stated about Fonz plan in an earlier post....

1st off...

Fonz idea of the buddy plan, one has a case, and the other likes it enough to join in. It will not win the game for town. Its more likely to aide scum imo.

*

Scum concocts a valid case on a town member playing poorly. Town member jumps on board. Town member recieves hurt.

*

Town member makes convincing case against another Town member. Opportunistic Scum jumps on board. Another Town member recieves hurt.

*

Town member makes convincing case against another town member.
Town member jumps on board. Townmember receives hurt.

At this point, I think its more than likely that more Townmembers will get stung with this system than scum will, given the percieved numbers.

Given that the mechanic in this game is most likely similar to the first mini, Rage points prove to be a real pain in the ass right now, regardless of time spent in game.
One of the powers we all have is being completly overlooked here, and scum are laughing up their sleeves at town.
The power I speak of?

HEAL!!!!!

The said Town members who recieved hurts through Fonz' system are now sitting ducks to be murdered.
Scum rape disorganised town, and eventually win.

We seriously need to reassess this system....
No, we seriously need to ditch this system.

______________________________________________________

At this very point, it seems scum may have used up what rage points they had, and do not have the power to secretly hurt further until they recharge.

Now is the time to use Heal powers on everyone bar the scummiest.

How do we assess who is the scummiest?
Simple... Fake Votecounts.

How on Earth this was overlooked is amazing imo...
Scum really got their way early on in this game, enough to allow another plan to wrangle its way in.
Im not claiming that Fonz is scum, nor am I ruling it out, due to said plan, but a re-think is needed.

__________________________________________________________

I would like everyone to vote on which plan to use, as the first time around, I dont recall such a vote taking place.
I would also like to hear why each player has chosen one or the other plan.

15 players left....
12 voting should do.

I would like to see the Fake Votecount re-introduced

Please, we need everyone to vote on this, Thank You

[Firestarter]

firestarter - I hear you, but for a fakevote system to work it needs EVERYONE to be on board. Chances of that are what exactly?

We dont need everyone, just town.

DGB, Ive politely requested everyone vote on a system.

Its not hard, I promise.

[Firestarter]

1.

Guys, have you looked at our track record lately? 5 kills, of which only 1 is scum. I think with my plan there's a high probability to hit scum. Offering 1 possible townie to catch 1 scum is okay in my opinion.

2.

What I really fear that if we keep killing people by concensus one by one, it will be scum really controlling the kills. I know it'd hurt to lose another townie, but the way we're going now isn't getting us anywhere.

3.

@Firestarter: please don't bring the voting system back, it was hard enough to let tajo drop it. It turned out it wouldn't work here, although it's a good idea. It doesn't have enough supporters, let it rest.

4.

@ DGB, at the moment my top 5 scum would rate:

1) ABR
2) rofl
3) tajo
4) Fonz
5) Firestarter

1. Funnily enough, the first plan used was the most succesful. The 2nd plan is currently town destructive.

2. The current plan is NOT done with general concensus.

3. The voting plan did work. Used once, caught scum.

4. Reasons as to why Im on your list please?

5. Did you read my inital post about reintroducing the fake votecount?
What are your thoughts on the various "events" I listed that are more likely to happen with the current buddy plan?
___________________________________________________________

@ Q21.. I take it then, your not in favour of the fake votecount. Yay or nay?

@ ABR... I take it thats a no then.
Please outline, in your own words, why the current plan is better given the reasons why I dislike it.

@ DGB... Please explain why my first post this evening (Where I am) is "Bizarre"?

Everyone Else

Please choose a system.

[Firestarter]

Very simple, Firestarter. The voting system will result in a deadlock with equal players on each side.

The benefits of the current plan are:

1) it stops us from being in complete anarchy
2) it is easily enforceable (no need to wait for vote counts, no need to wait for every player to weigh in)
3) any abuse in the system can be spotted and dealt with
4) it keeps the game moving without the fallen accumulating too much rage

Given the lurkers / people without strong opinions, it would be too hard to establish a majority of players agreeing, and it would take too long.

Also, discussing a change of plan at this point sidetracks us from catching scum and stalls the game, which is what we want to avoid at all cost as I just mentioned.

I understand the points you make.

But this current plan is not ideal at all.

Lurkers will remain lurkers until outed/dead. They will not have much input into whatever plan is utilised unless they are lurker scum, and jump on opportunisticly, again, if a good case is presented on a poor town player, this can be easily overlooked.

I would like to see a change, at the very least, in the current method being used.

I propose that 3 players need to be on any mini wagon for Hurt to happen.
The active players in this game, are likely not all town, and if scum has a strong opinion, they can jump onto whatever mini wagon suits them.

With another player needed to agree on any case, its harder for scum to influence, and in the event that a townie is lynched, its easier to spot the common denominator.

We do need to change the system, albeit not as drastically as I first proposed.

Can I get concensus on this at least?

And again, we're only 10 days in.

[Firestarter]

1st off...

Fonz idea of the buddy plan, one has a case, and the other likes it enough to join in. It will not win the game for town. Its more likely to aide scum imo.

*

Scum concocts a valid case on a town member playing poorly. Town member jumps on board. Town member recieves hurt.

*

Town member makes convincing case against another Town member. Opportunistic Scum jumps on board. Another Town member recieves hurt.

*

Town member makes convincing case against another town member.
Town member jumps on board. Townmember receives hurt.

Your argument appears to be the following. Some town people think some other town people are scum.

At this point, I think its more than likely that more Townmembers will get stung with this system than scum will, given the percieved numbers.

Why? All you've demonstrated is that town can get hurt if people can make a convincing case for them being scum. Town can also get lynched if people make a convincing case for them being scum.

My argument that some town think other town are scum is backed up by the last 4 deaths.

My main point when speaking of the hurts taken by mini wagons is that it leaves town members open to those said Rage points.
Whats happening is that different players are taking hurts here and there, and eventually, scum will win through the use of rage points.

In fairness, Ive dropped my inital thinking on changing the plan quickly.
3 should be the minimum amount of players required to hurt from here on imo.

Which brings me to my next point nicely...

_____________________________________________________________

Cybele made little posts, and I cannot add anything from what he wrote.
The following are thoughts/suspicions/quotes of WLC.

Confident Talk...

Also, we shouldn't treat it as a regular game because scum can talk all the time here and adjust and discuss their behavior to what happens in game."

On the Hoopla wagon

, and tries to talk down any turn around in Hoopla fortunes, that he may survive the wagon.

On the Walt wagon

, and again talks down to anyone not willing to jump on said wagon.
Pops the head in when some juicy action is taking place, lurker scummish imo.
Although both dead showed scummy behaviour, WLC's insistence on lynching both of them sticks out like a sore thumb.

This is bad acting imo...

I get the feeling with our first kill getting a scum quite easily, and now killing townies one by one, we were tricked to 'feel safe' day one, and that it was just a masterplan by scum. In that case, I guess scum were onto Shinnen, but kept in the background during the next lynches.

There are alot of inaccuracies in this post, as outlined in one of my earlier ones.

Guys, have you looked at our track record lately? 5 kills, of which only 1 is scum. I think with my plan there's a high probability to hit scum. Offering 1 possible townie to catch 1 scum is okay in my opinion.

What I really fear that if we keep killing people by concensus one by one, it will be scum really controlling the kills. I know it'd hurt to lose another townie, but the way we're going now isn't getting us anywhere.

@Firestarter: please don't bring the voting system back, it was hard enough to let tajo drop it. It turned out it wouldn't work here, although it's a good idea. It doesn't have enough supporters, let it rest.

@ DGB, at the moment my top 5 scum would rate:
1) ABR
2) rofl
3) tajo
4) Fonz
5) Firestarter

I see at least 2 players are already in favour of hurting WLC.

Hurt: WeyounsLastClone

"Con una lamierina scottante, muore l'angelo caduto."

[Firestarter]

Question to everyone: do you feel the Shinnen hurt on rofl is likely distancing, or genuine attempt to harm an antagonist?

It looks like the latter in my opinion.
Shinnen attacks Rofl in several of her posts.

Shinnen was advocating discussion in the main which allows for delaying tactics, and rofl's slaughter tactics seemed to be getting to Shinnen.

However, I think theres more likely a case of distancing from Seraphim from what I see in Shinnens isolated posts.

What stance are we taking with unilateral actions..
Single helas/hurts should not go unpunished.

Can we clear this up..?

[Firestarter]

What stance are we taking with unilateral actions..
Single helas/hurts should not go unpunished.

My attempt to heal Kinetic failed on account on an error on my part. But no one talked of punishing me for trying

Why bring this up now, I wonder. Besides, I approve of a Xyl heal.

Well, mostly because there has been such instances of these type actions, and for all the talk about NOT having players do this, there has been no such repercussions on the culprits.

Rofl is on a tangent of destruction, and as pointed out already, the aim is not the best.

I myself, for whatever reason (possibly scum opportunism) have recieved damage on a par with the lowest hurt players.
I would like a recharge to take me away from a Rage threshold.

Are you objecting to having a stance on the unilateral hurts/heals DGB?

[Firestarter]

Question to everyone: do you feel the Shinnen hurt on rofl is likely distancing, or genuine attempt to harm an antagonist?

It looks like the latter in my opinion.
Shinnen attacks Rofl in several of her posts.

Shinnen was advocating discussion in the main which allows for delaying tactics, and rofl's slaughter tactics seemed to be getting to Shinnen.

However, I think theres more likely a case of distancing from Seraphim from what I see in Shinnens isolated posts.

What stance are we taking with unilateral actions..
Single helas/hurts should not go unpunished.

Can we clear this up..?

No. But the problem is, you then need to get support to enforce it.

Its not a problem...
3 players can support a hurt punishment on anyone going outside the boundry we put up.

Similar to the way hurts are dished out.

[Firestarter]

No.

It would be individually giving up your hurt for 24hrs at a time, so that any player who hurt unilaterally would be similarly hurt. (obviously, if someone actually needs to hurt, we move onto the next enforcer on the list).

Anyone stepping outside a boundry after it has been enforced, in my eyes, is anti-town.

For the alternate suggestion to work, we need everyone to commit to a 24 hour watch, and that they will go ahead with the said counter-hurt.

If we can get all active players to agree, fine.

# Albert B. Rampage
# Drench Firestarter
# DrippingGoofball
# Giuseppe
# Nuwen
# populartajo
# q21
# roflcopter
# Seraphim
# Tenchi
# The Fonz
# vIQleS
# WeyounsLastClone
# Xylthixlm
# zwetschenwasser

What about players currently under high suspicion??

[Firestarter]

Are you objecting to having a stance on the unilateral hurts/heals DGB?

I don't think unsupported hurts/heals are that much of a problem. To enforce it with death would removes flexibility in our play, slow us down, etc. I think it should be a case-by-case basis. No unsupported actions should be a guideline, not some rule blindly enforced with an iron fist.

They may not seem to be a problem, but especially with unsupported hurts, they WILL BE the longer the game goes on.
Particularly if no heals are offered up.
If we have some sort of system in place, its entirely better than whats there at the moment... zilch..

Well, I'm fully charged, and don't particularly like any of the viable wagons. So I'll go first. Please type /in to enforce if wishing to be added to the rota.

/in

[Firestarter]

I have to say, I find DGB's idea a bit better in a perfect world, but it's a bit idealistic. I think if we could get a group of people who present the CounterHurt unit, then we could leave the rest of the town to their devises.

Maybe, say, three or four people who would dedicate their hurts to dealing with unilateral action?

Currently we seem to have set 3 players to support a Hurt.
If someone violates this, then they recieve a counter hurt from the assigned counter hurt unit.

If the nominated Counter Hurt Player fails in his duty, or hurts/heals elsewhere, then they should be open to punishment.

Im off for the evening guys, grabbing some popcorn and watching the truman Show.

Ciao for now...

[Firestarter]

Right, firestarter. You're on after me, so don't hurt in the seven or so hours between becoming able to hurt and going on duty.

NP's.
I think a list is essential.

No. It's attempting to stop random damage, whilst allowing wagons with decent support to still hurt without requiring consensus.

Besides, you can still hurt without support. I'm just going to hurt you the second you do.

+1

______________________________________________________________

Counter Hurt Unit

ON WATCH;

The Fonz

NEXT UP;

Firestarter.
Giuseppe

3 players must support a Hurt/Heal.
Loners will be counter Hurt if they feel the need to go it alone.

Anyone else wanting to participate please add the list to your next post, and include your name in order.

[Firestarter]

HURT: WeyounsLastClone

Target is already at 0 HP. Action unspent. Flay

Im not going to be around until about 10PM tomorrow evening (28 hours from now), I can then sanction a hurt on the latest offender due to the rulings we set up yesterday.

But Im going to use this hurt on who I suspected last time, and has plenty of support on. I do not want to let it waste.

Guys, why is so hard for you to grasp the concept of the 3 support rule??

Its fairly easy to understand.
It does not require a mass concensus, thus doe not waste as much time as a fake votecount.
It requires at least 3 players to support hurting.
And any factions containing scum will be easier to spot. Seriously, with rage points, this is the only method worth using.
I like the idea of a fake votecount, but as pointed out earlier to me, time does not allow this to be effective.

There are too many lurkers, too many people stalling, and scum are laughing up their sleeves.

Rofl, you've critisced this plan for the last 9 pages or so, and we now have Q21 and Tenchi poking their heads in to again change the current plan.

This is the real fuck up if you ask me, the real stalling on the game.

My advice is to get a fucking case together, present it, and if it is a good case, it will recieve more than just the 3 players needed.

So far, there are players only arguing about the system being used.
And NOT trying to build a case.
Its purely anti-town, no more and no less.

So again, for the ones wanting to ignore/stall/do anything but want to catch scum/build a case..

BUILD A FUCKING CASE!!!
The only restriction is you need 3 players in total for support..
It cannot be any fucking clearer..

[Firestarter]

So i would like firestarter to hurt rofl as soon as he's charged, because the rabbit's basically taking the piss.

This I shall do in 24 hours time, 20 hours into my shift.
I wont be around until then, as stated in my previous post.

[Firestarter]

Ok, Note to self....
Read all posts before posting what Ive just written...

_______________________________________________________

What system are we using??

This is not helping us to find scum.

Too much bickering about strategy.

Can we decide on one we are going to use, how long we are going to use it for, and clear rulings.

When I say clear rulings, I mean anyone being anti-town gets raped!!!

[Firestarter]

Players that owe Firestarter a heal:

# Firestarter/Drench (-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, The Fonz (4) Healed by: (0)

It would be nice to have those back alright..

On a side note...

I dont believe Walts dying agenda posts were pre planned.

I do believe that scum also miscalculated hurts and attempted to remove me with a lightning wagon before I made my entrance, proper, and utilising Rage hurts.

This of course, applies only if the same mechanic is involved with this game as in the first mini.

The bolded part is directed at Fonz & Seraphim...
For clarification purposes, if/when WLC is dead/dies, I intend going after Seraphim.

Yep, Drenchhurting seems a good way to go.

Call hurt on Drench

Hurt: Drench

Lurker hunt go go go.

Hurt: Drench

[Firestarter]

Honestly speaking.. we cannot ignore dead townies words, because they were the only confirmed town we know of.

In the case of Juls... IMO, she didn't bother to play the game properly.
Why anyone would dovetail another is beyond me, unless they were scum, I can see why she got lynched.

Rofl, counting on a dead town player can be a good thing, particularly if said town player made valid cases, scumhunted, on their own volition.

In this case, she merely followed someone else, and that someone is far far away from being confirmed town... ABR,

Sorry, this time, you dont get the benefit of the doubt.
Juls was anti-town, and ABR's play is far from townish...

[Firestarter]

Honestly speaking.. we cannot ignore dead townies words, because they were the only confirmed town we know of.

In the case of Juls... IMO, she didn't bother to play the game properly.
Why anyone would dovetail another is beyond me, unless they were scum, I can see why she got lynched.

Rofl, counting on a dead town player can be a good thing, particularly if said town player made valid cases, scumhunted, on their own volition.

In this case, she merely followed someone else, and that someone is far far away from being confirmed town... ABR,

Sorry, this time, you dont get the benefit of the doubt.
Juls was anti-town, and ABR's play is far from townish...

so how do you feel about walt wishbone's opinions?

Walt has more credibility, but who's to say he was right?

Rofl, make your case, and garner support after that please.
This is really getting nowhere, and guess what?
Its more stalling.

[Firestarter]

as the only person here who has hurt on the hour literally every time i have been capable, i take offense to the accusation of stalling

From a general POV, yes, it is more stalling, because your current way of playing the game is the main hold up.

You've dismissed every plan devised so far, and in fairness, you've helped majorly in the assassination of 4 townies.

Yes, you've hurt, big deal...

That does not mean you aren't stalling the game.

Alot of players have argued the plans, but your the most consistent, and most non-compliant.

I stated it earlier, Order is towns friend.

[Firestarter]

Killed an obvtown player without any support?

QFT.

Im not liking the way Rofl is playing the game thus far, but of the 2, Nuwen & Rofl, I feel Nuwen is scum.

ORDER OF HURT

1.

Seraphim

2.

Nuwen

3.

zwetschenwasser/vIQles

[Firestarter]

i really, really disagree with anyone who thinks viqles is scum. just re-read shinnen's absolutely crap attacks against him and you'll see why.

I have an inkling that vIQles is scum... Im not sure yet however
I played the original, and he played this way, then.
After our next targets have been reduced to mere ashes, I will inspect vIQles further, and in particular, Shinnens attacks.

[Firestarter]

Uh, because he's really scummy?

yeah yeah, Juls was scummy, Walt was scummy. gimme something new.

Your point?

You asked for this system, you got it, why are you arguing peoples choices?

[Firestarter]

Shinnen was scummy.

she was obv scummy. gimme somethin new.

and not only fonz, i want the voters to support their vote with an explanation

is this too much, fire?

Possibly, since I didn't see it until after I posted... timestamp!

[Firestarter]

is this too much, fire?

In any case, yes it is.
Im off out now, and dont expect to be back here until 10pm tomorrow evening, as stated in an earlier post.

[Firestarter]

Ive a feeling Rage may be accumulated through not hurting in thread, or hurting as little as possible...

And both Giuseppe and Tenchi have hurt little.

Giuseppe: 2 Hurts on Juls (Town) & 1 Hurt on Tenchi (Bussing?)
1 heal on Xyl.

Tenchi: 1 Heal on Poptajo & 1 Hurt on Xyl (Possibly 2 with SWORD in text)

Im going after one of these, more likely Tenchi at this moment.

___________________________________________________________

Im looking at these 2 because of the recent interaction between them.
Both have a combined hurt count of 3 between them in thread, from 110 pages or so???

I have not made a list of how many hurts each player has dished out, maybe someone who has some time right now can????

Intent to Hurt either: Tenchi or Giuseppe.

[Firestarter]

Hmmm...

Pop, no reaction to my last post???

Opinion please...

[Firestarter]

VOTE: Tenchi

Hmmm...

Pop, no reaction to my last post???

Opinion please...

Pop..?

[Firestarter]

Pop, no reaction to my last post???

Opinion please...

And should I reveal who I watched??? No reaction to my last post???

Sorry DGB, my excitement at breaking this wide open got the better of me...

Would revealing who you watched clear them?
Post away.

And while we're at it, reactions to my "Rage theory" post please...

[Firestarter]

That was my first hurt for the entire game.

This post made me highly suspicious, and thus I posted my rage theory post.

And yes, both went a bit crazy after rage imo.

[Firestarter]

Your rage theory sounds like complete rubbish

Why?

Dont just say it sounds like rubbish, please expand, thank you.

[Firestarter]

I got on earlier due to stopping off at my bro's house, and now Im back earlier than anticipated.

I like Nuwens PBPA on ABR.
I stated earlier that given a choice between Nuwen and Rofl, that I'd consider Nuwen more scum than the former.

But the interaction between ABR & Nuwen has been quite enlightening to say the least.

Im liking ABR for scum, due mostly to Nuwens PBPA, and ABR's massively contradictory posts.

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:35 pm

I no longer support to kill Seraphim.

This is pretty definite...


Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:49 pm

i'm still killing xyl

You don't believe DGB's claim that Xyl didn't use any rage?

Hurt: Seraphim

This is sneaky, very sneaky hurt of Seraphim.

Why does ABR get away with hurting Seraphim?

Because according to the vote count, Seraphim is the vote leader.

The last post, where ABR HURTS Seraphim is reminiscent of a bus, to look town after a scum gets lynched.

I believe that Seraphim is scum, and combined with Nuwens case, I also think ABR is scum.

My third choice is Tenchi right now..
I voted him top of my list earlier today, but with ABR's movement and Hurting Seraphim before a concensus was fully agreed upon, he's fallen down my pecking order.

I do believe that theres an alternative mechanic in place in this game, whether it is what I suggested earlier, or just that scum recieve a higher dossage of scum points, or something completely different, Tenchi has hit the road hard since the rage outburst, and imo, scum are sensing victory.
Tenchi, you've been very quiet until the rage outburst, and you are coming on alot more strongly than previously...

RE: DGB & Xyl...

This game is larger, and by all accounts, we may have bigger numbers of each kind of angel in the game.
Id go along with us having more Ophanim in this game, we had 2 in the mini, so I think that 3 is an extreme possibilty in this one.
Unless another Ophan claims somehow, Im taking DGB's claim, and clearing him, and Xyl, for now.
Of course, if there is another ophan, or indeed, ONLY 1 more that has not claimed, then Im not advocating him to come out only to get slaughtered by the scum and their rage points. But if there is, then DGB & Xyl are threatening the result of this game, in favour of scum obviously.

Seraphim

remains most scumlike in my eyes, just ahead of ABR, and if needed, a PBPA will follow...

Rofl

.. Im really really confused about right now...

Q21

.. In the first game we both played in, you were one of the louder voices, and did not remain in the shadows as much as you are in this one.
I went after you in that game, as you did me, and your defence was very good, it turned out you were town.
Im not getting the same vibes this time around, you seem to be content with offering a few posts here and there, but substance-wise, not alot.

Pop

.. Seems Town to me right now, as does

the Fonz

.

Giuseppe

... well, Im leaning scum on you...
If Tenchi is scum, Im kinda thinking that you are 2, due to the last interaction between you both.

In saying that, my top 3 right now are as follows >>>

1.

Seraphim

2.

ABR

3.

Tenchi

Ill offer support to any of the 3 being lynched, favourably in my order would be ideal.

[Firestarter]

Tenchi, you've been very quiet until the rage outburst, and you are coming on alot more strongly than previously...

Again, I will ask: Would you rather me be quiet for an X number of days/hours after the rage outburst to voice my suspicions to not look scummy?

Please attack what I say, not the timing.

Sorry, but Im attacking both your play and your timing.

So far we've caught 1 scum member.
That leaves us with possibly 4, maybe 5?

Regardless, its nearing endgame, and you, you have been quiet for so long...
You, who has only casted their first hurt several pages ago....
Are now playing a different style of game.

Your play & TIMING is whats bugging me Tenchi....

Whay did you not scumhunt for 90 pages?

[Firestarter]

My post rate last game = 1.8 post/day
My post rate this game = 8 posts/day

I'm

not

playing slowly, other people are posting like rabid monkeys chained to keyboards. I approve of the game rate and try to keep up, but I just don't have the time to make 200 - 300+ posts in 12 days.

As for remaining is the shadows: I've made cases and pushed them. I've stuck to my beliefs on who is scum and have done my best to hunt scum within whatever system the town is currently playing with.

It isn't so much your post rate, its your style of play this game Q21.
I dont have alot to go on with you at the moment, and if anything, I'd be leaning neutral on you.

I added you into my post as to include everyone playing.
I have bigger fish to fry right now, but I did note the difference in playstlye this game to last.

[Firestarter]

I was at a conference. I actually said something on confirmation that I'll be gone for a week.

If you want photos of that I'll be happy to post it LOL.

The game is running for nearly 2 weeks now, what of the other week (almost)?

[Firestarter]

Regardless, its nearing endgame, and you, you have been quiet for so long...
You, who has only casted their first hurt several pages ago....
Are now playing a different style of game.

My change of play style would also make sense if you assume I am Town. We are being bombarded with rage. I have not helped too much. And my suspects are slipping below the radar.

Again, would you rather have that I was "consistent" in being quiet?

No, because Im assuming your scum because of your sudden interest.

Your play, regardless of any story you tell, has been pretty anti-town, as so much as not posting a case, hardly, and posting incomplete thoughts... (See Tenchi Notes). There were no conclusions, and generally of no help.
You did not post on the 23rd, 25th, 26th & 27th.
Yet I see little of substance from the posts you made on the 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 24th, 28th, 29th and part of the 30th.

6 posts on the 28th.
11 posts on the 29th
5 posts on the 30th.

AND 65 posts on the 31st, and counting...

Its not that you may have been away for a week, its what you've done when you could post... NOWT.

Even after the week you say you were away for, nothing substantial..
But after the Rage Outburst.. BANG!!!
Posting frenzy.

[Firestarter]

The game is running for nearly 2 weeks now, what of the other week (almost)?

I was discussing theory with you guys and suspected Hoopla. And preparing for the conference.

I will be posting sparingly in the coming week.

This was posted on the 19th.... 1 week takes you to the 26th.
Plus you were able to post during that first week.

[Firestarter]

Ok...

Just in case...

UNVOTE

VOTE: Seraphim

[Firestarter]

Im heading to my bed right now.

If someone can collect data of who has healed who, it might be a start to uncovering scum.

I want to crack this rage shit before it kills us.

I came up with one theory on how rage points are accumulated, and I believe Xyl mentioned another.

Another way they could be garnered is through scum healing other players first.

If such a list is posted, I can investigate it tomorrow.

Right now, Seraphim must die.

He is scum and should not be allowed to continue.

Seraphim, you called for a case from me, Ill duley have one tomoorow for you, I supported other valid cases against you, but Ill have my case as promised.

In the meantime, practice what you preach, and offer up a case on your latest target.

[Firestarter]

Can I get support to Hurt Seraphim please?


Im ready to unload a world of hurt on scum, before bed!!

[Firestarter]

Because I said so...

Great defence BTW, similar to Shinnens!!

[Firestarter]

I am not clearing DGB just because of his claim.

Tenchi, open your god damned eyes.... read the thread, whatever...

DGB and Xyl have got to be the same side for me.

They are either clever scum or townsfolk.

The last game had Ophans on the good side ONLY, there is no need for Scum Ophans.

I asked for someone to soft claim or at least leave a hint they were an ophan, and I have not seen anything.

Im thinking they are town based on this.

[Firestarter]

Because I said so...

Great defence BTW, similar to Shinnens!!

Great offense BTW, similar to Rofl!

Seraphim.. Ive already stated that Ive supported attacks on you made by others. This was system that we have all used, including you.

Please, at least put a case up to stop your lynch rather than crying like a baby..

Im not scum, Im not scum.... etc, etc...
Doesn't wash for me.

I dont have time to do a PBPA on you right now, Ill do it tomorrow as promised, and if your still with us.

[Firestarter]

Ok, Im going to bed...

But im not letting my Hurt go to waste here.. Too much stalling is letting the scum gain more advantage.

HURT: Seraphim

"Con una lamierina scottante, muore l'angelo caduto."

We had a concensus some pages back, and its been thrown off course since.

[Firestarter]

I wish I could see your faces when I flip town. It's going to be hilarious.

Why would you consider it hilarious??

[Firestarter]

Just so it doesn't get lost.

Another way Rage could be garnered is through scum healing other players first.

If such a list is posted, I can investigate it tomorrow.

[Firestarter]

A Metatron??

A scribe?

Pop, you posted Flays post above...
Should we now consider that scum have an ophan???

I may also add a 'Bodyguard' type that would protect from secret attacks, again for a certain length of time.

Of course, they would be detectable by Ophanim...

What Ophanim do we know of?

DGB?

Scum or Town?

Our next lynch is vital...

__________________________________________________________

My last hurt was on Seraphim, Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:30 am

I can hurt again in about 5.5 hours time.

[Firestarter]

3. The scum were trying to finish off DGB (before my heal).

Bullshit.

Tenchi didn't believe DGB's claim and suspected her.

DGB AND XYLTHIXLM ARE SCUM.

You know what... Im thinking now that they are, we now have a valid reason, I think, that scum possess an Ophan... To find a metatron.

[Firestarter]

Im ordering everyone off the Seraphim lynch now!!

Time to think now....

Earlier, and from the previous game, there was no need for scum to have an Ophan in their ranks.

But now that we have a Metatron, that seemingly protects players from hurt, its very very likely that scum have an ophan with them.

We have DGB, who cleared Xyl, and I took it for what it was then.
But not now, with the knowledge from Tenchi's death.

Seraphim has acted scummy, as has most of the dead townies, but they've been townies nonetheless....

I think we need to remove DGB, and if my theory is correct.. Xyl follows.

Guys, think long and hard about our next move here, it's likely our last if we get it wrong.

INTENT TO HURT & VOTE: DGB

[Firestarter]

Im all for bumping off Seraphim, but not before either Xyl or DGB guys....
Think about it, the mechanic in this game, how much rage has been used thus far.

So far...
Dead Townies=More dead townies.
And we've all missed with our recent attempts, and some!!

Seraphim is not town for me BTW.... I never said that.

I want this Ophan claim sorted first.
Regardless of whether its DGB or Xyl first.
Thinking about it,

if

Xyl turns up town, DGB may be, so leaving the claimed power role until the 2nd lynch is probs the best idea here.

I cannot hurt until 1:30am, my time, which is Hours from now.
So, if Seraphim dies first, I just hope it does not trigger more rage..

Pop is pushing really hard to have Seraphim killed, like we all did before Tenchi got axed.
But I think you all agree on the changing situation with our Ophan claim now... It looks dodgy, yet Pop is basically ignoring it in pursuit of Seraphim.

I like Seraphim as scum, but something feels off about the order things are going in right now.
I pray to my God that if we take Seraphim out, we still have time to go after the Ophan claim...

[Firestarter]

Firestarter's play since Tenchi's death has been worrying. He went from hurting Serpahim and arguing against stalling to trying to shut the Seraphim lynch down... ie. stalling.

Possibly bussing his scumbuddy until he realised that the rest of the team had been blown open. Although, that makes one wonder why he would change target to DGB - better bus maybe?

Just thoughts, no concrete reads on him as yet.

Firestarters thoughts on this game were very different before Tenchi's death...

Read my posts again Q.....

You'll find Im not opposed to a Seraphim lynch at all... never in fact.

I merely have a big problem now with the DGB & Xyl Ophan-clearing claim.

As do you in a previous post... Remember this??

As much as I itch to know what the Metatron role did, there's no way to find out now and it doesn't actually matter. The important point is that it proves that there are roles beyond what are described in the beginning. This means there is cause to suspect the existence of a scum Ophan.

So Q, you think Im scum now for changing my opinion on proceedings??

Go for it...

________________________________________________________

After Seraphim is dead, DGB or Xyl are next up.

[Firestarter]

Ok, missed the last few posts before I posted...

INTENT TO HURT: DGB or XYL

I dont give a fuck who, one of them NEEDS to flip now.

[Firestarter]

Never claimed that you had said were opposed to it, rather that you'd tried to stall it after complaining about stalling before Tenchi's death. I agree with you on DGB/Xyl, as you pointed out later in this post, but there was no reason to stop hurting Seraphim.

How could I stall it? I merely asked everyone to think about their next move, while also giving my thoughts on the DGB Ophan Claim/Xyl being cleared by it.

It was out of my hands... I am currently in recharge state, and if I had got Hurt to use, it would have went the way of Seraphim

after

discussing that I wanted DGB or Xyl first. I made no secret of this.

But I cannot get the DGB/Xyl claim out of my head.

The Metatron being introduced makes me feel really certain that at least 1 Ophan, is fallen.

[Firestarter]

Im ordering everyone off the Seraphim lynch now!!

Time to think now....

Earlier, and from the previous game, there was no need for scum to have an Ophan in their ranks.

But now that we have a Metatron, that seemingly protects players from hurt, its very very likely that scum have an ophan with them.

We have DGB, who cleared Xyl, and I took it for what it was then.
But not now, with the knowledge from Tenchi's death.

Seraphim has acted scummy, as has most of the dead townies, but they've been townies nonetheless....

I think we need to remove DGB, and if my theory is correct.. Xyl follows.

Guys, think long and hard about our next move here, it's likely our last if we get it wrong.

INTENT TO HURT & VOTE: DGB

And the very next line reads???

BTW, dont forget about the lynching of a metatron....
I dont want to think your ignoring this.....
I think its pretty important.

[Firestarter]

q21 and Fire, you both are town, please avoid this fight and concentrate in Xyl and DGB please.

Em, wasn't I doing that?

[Firestarter]

HURT: Xylthixlm

[Firestarter]

10 townies in a row?

Unfuckinbelievable....

Fresh impetus please... DGB, I believe you have such a post being readied..

With great haste I urge it to appear here..

[Firestarter]

Can we just kill him already? Rofl has been allowed free reign in this game for too long, and it probably cost us the win. Next game, I'm not allowing loose canon players to hop around and muck up the game with their idiocy.

Im in complete agreement with this.

How on earth has rofl been allowed to do this time and time again, throughout the death of every townie???
Not only that, but this game is almost over, and he has shown NO remorse for his hurting ways whatsoever.

Im supporting a hit on rofl...
And if he does come up town, which lets face it, his play suggests anything but, then at least we do not have a loose cannon at Lylo, if thats were we are at that stage of the game. This is purely alternatate speculation, Rofl is more scum than ever with this latest crazy hurt.

However...
Im in the middle of creating a Hurt/Heal list.
Ill come back shortly with analysis of this.

[Firestarter]

Below is the output of Hurts and Heals delivered by everyone still with us.

I have not included the Optional Sword text, which means each hurt is a seperate post, which in turn means that more than 1 point of Hurt could have been delivered to a victim.

IN SERVORUM...

Albert B. Rampage

Heals >>

Nuwen, Fonz,

Hurts >>

Shinnen * 2, Hoopla *2, Firestarter, Kinetic, WeyounsLastClone *2, Seraphim *2, DrippingGoofBall

Firestarter

Heals >>

None

Hurts >>

WeyounsLastClone, Seraphim*2, Xylthixlm

DrippingGoofball

Heals >>

roflcopter, Kinetic,

Hurts >>

WaltWishBone, Shinnen, Juls*2,

Giuseppe/Yosarian2

Heals >>

Xylthixlm,

Hurts >>

Juls*2, Tenchi,

Nuwen

Heals >>

Albert B. Rampage

Hurts >>

WaltWishBone*3, Shinnen, rofl

populartajo

Heals >>

q21, Seraphim*2, roflcopter, Firestarter,

Hurts >>

vIQles, Tenchi, WeyounsLastClone, Xylthixlm,

q21

Heals >>

WeyounsLastClone,

Hurts >>

Zwetshenwasser*3, Shinnen, WaltWishbone, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, Xylthixlm,

roflcopter

Heals >>

None

Hurts >>

Kinetic*3, Seraphim*2, Hoopla, Shinnen, Xylthixlm*2, populartajo,

The Fonz

Heals >>

None

Hurts >>

Shinnen*2, Firestarter, WeyounsLastClone, Seraphim, q21,

[Firestarter]

Q21.. Please Read the following carefully

Ive found this on Wiki....

The Talmudic tradition rendered Michael's name as meaning "who is like El?". In recent years, a popular mistake has become to translate the name as "One who is like God." It is, however, meant as a question: "Who is like the Lord?"

The name was said to have been the battle cry of the angels in the war in heaven against Satan and his followers.

The Bolded part is linked directly with the title of this game...

I have a feeling that rofl may be Michaels nemesis.
He is either Belial or Lucifer....

rofl's actions all through the game come down to this...

He hurt who he liked, when he liked, and retribution did not scare him....
I think we can all agree with this.

Is it then possible that rofl, also has a shit load of HP????

I also found this...

In early Christian writings, Belial was identified first as an angel of confusion and lust, created after Lucifer. Paradoxically, some apocrypha credit Belial as being the father of Lucifer and the angel that convinced him to wage a

rebellion in Heaven against God, and that Belial was the first of the fallen angels to be expelled.

Well, I think he's just incurred his first damage of the game from Nuwen, so we may only find out if we can lynch him..

Q21, I want you, with this claim, to understand what Im posting here.
For me, it now seems very clear that Roflcopter needs to die next.

Do not be put off by anyone saying the next person with the lowest HP who's acted scummy should die next, we've seen how far that has gotten us so far.
Scum and Town have picked off HP here and there all game from everyone. Town are whittling down to within Rage distance, if not there already.

Q21.. think about this... clearly.

[Firestarter]

firestarter, unless q21 has been hiding an ability to do double damage, i don't think your theory has any legs. i've proven that i have the seraphim ability to do double damage, and its not a large leap of faith to think that if there is an evil opposite to q's role, they would be symmetrical.

As Ive posted rofl....

If there is an opposite of what q21 is claiming, with bucketloads of HP, why should they fear a lynching?

I mean, they could do what they wanted really in game as long as hurt did not draw suspicion...
So far, that role is charcterised by YOU.

[Firestarter]

Why the fuck did fonz hurt s21 and albert hurt dgb? Fron ny cell.

Because they're scum, like I've been saying all along.

Please..change the avatar!!!

Fons, Rofl, ABR & 1 more... possibly Giuseppe... Not sure.
Also take note that neither one of the 4 mentioned above have hurt the other 3.

Thats the scum team Im seeing now.

[Firestarter]

i'm just spitballing here, but you'd think if the scum had a role with a specific name such as "belial" or "lucifer" with a boatload of hp,

they'd expect the town to have something to counteract that, and would have been hunting for it.

Let me spitball back....

We had a Metatron, I think its fairly plausible to say that once the Metatron was in game and alive, that Michael could not be found.

Was the Metatron simply gaurding the fact WE had an arcangel??
I think it may have been.

BTW, Rofl... YOU ARE SCUM!!!!!!

Check out the bolded part of the quote above.

Scum can Hunt????

Q21... Please, if You can, Reduce this ScumBag to a pile of ash

[Firestarter]

Firestarter, I thought very carefully about everything you posted last page the moment I got my Role PM. If I have a true opposite then I doubt its rofl since I can't do extra in thread damage.

When I said opposite, I meant someone just as powerful as Michael...
Not exactly as powerful as Michael.

Also this...the 2nd post of the game by The Almighty...

First Damage Tally of the First Æon:

Michael has taken 3 damage.
Gabriel has taken 2 damage.
Azrael and Belial have both taken 1 damage each.

Metatron, Lucifer, and Vassago are all undamaged.

Metatron has been mentioned, Michael has been mentioned.
Im betting my loyally winged ass that one of those other names are in this game.

Q, Im merely putting out my thoughts here, I get very very excitable when I spot something wrong... Im as sure as I can be that we have at least 1 more surprise, in that at least 1 player on the scum team is a special character/role.

[Firestarter]

Vassago

, in demonology, is a mighty Prince of Hell (see Hierarchy of demons), ruling over twenty-six legions of demons. He can be persuaded to tell the magician of events past and future,

can discover hidden and lost things

, and has a "good" nature.

If we do have a scum special character, it may well be Vassago.
"He can discover hidden things," really interests me, it points to a scum player than being able to watch/hunt/track a town player.

One other thing that I seen is that Vassago is the Prince of Hell, and Michael is a Chief Prince of Heaven.

I know this doesn't contribute alot to this particular game, but it may open up possibilities that the Scum do have someone with Ophanic powers.

[Firestarter]

If nuwen were town I'd expect at least one of the scum to be pushing for her lynch over rofl's... and he out of character killing of obvtown walt makes me more nervous than rofl's continuous rage.

This I agree it.

________________________________

Rofl's play however is more of a kindred spirit, free of a collective's shackles.
Rebellious...

Thats how I feel right now..

[Firestarter]

And have played UTR. And no other fucker seems to have even look at you. That spells scum. And right now, if the town doesn't kill scum AND soon, it's fucked. That's why i hurt you.

Reminds me of you, Fonz...

[Firestarter]

HURT: roflcopter

You have commited more sins than anyone else in this game.
No more....

[Firestarter]

Scumteam:

Firestarter, Nuwen, DGB and Yosarian?

Seriously?

The thing Im trying to get my head round is which one are you trying to distance from?

My guess is Giuseppe/Yosarian.

Giuseppe's blinding appeal for a case on Xyl to place a hurt, was so scum-licious it was amazing.

He knew Xyl was town, and refused to offer backing on that lynch, in a ridiculous attempt at looking Townie.
Not only that, but Im now questioning the motive behind him being replaced this late into the game.

Stalling much?
Hoping that the newcomer will be given sufficient time to read the whole game, and post thoughts before anyone acted?
That would take time, maybe enough to reach Sunday perhaps?

ABR, roflcopter, Giuseppe and The Fonz.
Im really really liking this as the scum team now.

[Firestarter]

no, zeal should not be used frivolously. if anything, wait til i'm dead and flipped so that q21 can zeal nuwen when it becomes obvious its necessary.

Yeah...

Lets wait till the Fallen are recharged...

Great idea...

[Firestarter]

one of tajo and firestarter is scum

Another poxy dichotomy...

[Firestarter]

rofl. I want you dead, lets make that clear.

Ive outlined why I think your scum, and its nothing to do with protecting Nuwen or anyone else.

All game you've just jumped in without a care in the world as far as hurting people went, and low and behold, as soon as we discover we have a strong Town Member, Q21's claim, you've backed down considerably, even reffering to Q21 as "Boss."

Im also surprised that your only attempt at retribution against my recent posts claiming you as scum seems to be a big appeal to emotion.

Sorry, this does not wash.
I may be wrong that you are a special character in the game, I may be right, but I do believe that you are a member of the Fallen Angels.

**********************************************************

Of the remaining players in this game, the hurts dished out to the dead players tally like this..

56 Hurts in total

8 Hurts went to the only Scum found thus far, Shinnen.

48 Hurts on Dead Townies.

8 seperate Hurts by roflcopter

This does not include the optional text, some of these hurts are doubled as rofl is at the very least, a Seraphim.

This accounts to 17% of Town-Hurts by Roflcopter.

While Im at it...

One of my other suspects is ABR...

Who also has 8 Hurts on Dead Town Players.

So between ABR & Rofl, they have unleashed a massive 34% of Hurts on the Dead Town Players.

I ask you this then...
What is Scums main role in Mafia?
To kill townies, No?

This cannot be ignored....

[Firestarter]

A List of the Hurt % issued by each of the surviving players in this game on The Dead Townies

Albert B. Rampage >> 16.6%
roflcopter >> 16.6%
q21 >> 14.3%
populartajo >> 8.3%
The Fonz >> 8.3%
Firestarter >> 8.3%
DrippingGoofball >> 6.25%
Giuseppe/Yosarian2 >> 6.25%
Nuwen >> 6.25%

***********************************************************

Its interesting to note how much damage Town have felt under Q21's blade.

Q21, I would like you to utilise what you claim you have.
Im not going to direct you, but an example of the power you claim to wield is required now.

Your Town damage is very close to those I highly suspect, and your claim needs to be tested.

[Firestarter]

Am I missing something here?

Yes. I am an Ophanim, which means that I can detect secret actions. If q21 gets his act together and makes an action before my watch expires, I'll be able to test his claim.

Theres also the small consideration that scum recieve Rage points on Sundays.

So if we do have someone that can do scum some damage, it'd be nice to see it happen before the Sabbath.

[Firestarter]

yays i lived long enough to do some good

hurt: fonz

with a whirling dance of blades and fire

I wasn't expecting you to carry out this hurt....

You and Fonz cannot both be scum.

Fonz & ABR, yes.

Rofl & ABR, yes.

Common denominator... ABR.

[Firestarter]

I personally feel she's more likely scum than rofl. I want her at 9 life so that if rofl flips town I can kill her as soon possible (I'll be able to do that much damage once I get a bump in Zeal tomorrow). Unless the scum get a completely broken amount of rage she should still be safe at 9 if she's town.

So what your saying is that the rest of us should kill rofl, while you chip away at Nuwen, BEFORE seeing rofl's flip??

Im starting to dislike your claim, any town player with this claim would have demonstrated it before tomorrow.

_____________________________________________________

Its only a matter of time now before scum wipe us out..

[Firestarter]

If ABR's started at 9 HP, he's dead.

Is there anyone else to offer hurt on ABR?

If its not needed, it wont go to waste.. I will hurt ABR when my cooldown is completed. 5 hours or so.

With the hurts taken into account since Gods last post, I tally as following;

DrippingGoofball, q21, and Yosarian2 are all at normal HP.

The Fonz has 2 damage
Nuwen has 2 damage
Albert B. Rampage has 2 damage.
roflcopter has 4 damage.
populartajo and Firestarter have 3 damage each.

If ABR has 12 HP, then 1 more hurt is needed to lynch him, given that Q21 has hurt him with 9ZP's.

[Firestarter]

No I hurt him with 7, he had already taken 2, total = 9.

So we need to find 3 hurts to finish him off.

[Firestarter]

q21 could have been an endgame threat to the scum until firestarter just talked him into using all his ammunition.

Right, and that's exactally why it dosn't really seem like a town role to me; town should never win a one on one edgame.

Did town have anything like that in earlier War in Heaven games?

No, but that was a mini.

BTW, did you guys stop and think for one moment why it might be a good idea for Q to go after 1 of the players most of us think is scum atm???

The one major plus I see, is that if ABR is indeed scum, then I'd imagine that any rage points he accumulates does not come into play once dead.

While Im here...

HURT:Albert B. Rampage

Target is already dead; action unspent.

[Firestarter]

er, abr is deead?

Yes, I just noticed that AND rofl calling for my head after I posted... missed the last page...

rofl... I asked for Q to demonstrate the power yes, and on someone most of us thought was scum, including you.

You calling for my head because I got it wrong is the biggest "pot and kettle" situation Ive ever seen.

If we just hit scum, we'd be much the better for it now.
1 scum would have been taken out, as well as the rage points they can use.
Plus we'd have an extra townie to battle what scum had left.

But we hit another town... again..

***************************************


I have full faith in the townies that are left to see that I was genuinly trying to hit scum, try to deduce through reason who was towns biggest enemy, unlike others still alive.

This is a perfect opportunity for scum to blacken my name now, and look for another mislynch.

Before you all think about that however, I'd ask you to look at rofl's latest few posts claiming Im scum.

Check out his reaction.

After I applied pressure on rofl a few pages back, his posting had an air of resignation about it, no? It looked highly likely he was gonna be lynched as his wagon grew pace.
But now look... after another townie has been mislynched....
Is this the reaction of a townie who knows the game may be lost, looking for me to be lynched asap.
Or is it more reminiscent of a scum player seeing the end is nigh?

[Firestarter]

Rofl, if I was going against Q's plan, I would have used my unused hurt on you the last post I made.

Im satisfied about Q now, and if we can stick together instead of going off on a one man quest, town may win this.

I have no qualms in me being in that order on the list.
If my death will reveal someone else as scum, so be it.
But if I could, I'd at least change my order...
I'd place Giuseppe/Yos in front of me.
If not, then no matter.

Pop, why on earth do you want everyone to claim?
If that happens now, Scum will know who to target exactly.
This is not a good idea.

Ok, so Im gonna use my Hurt on Fonz now as per the list of Q.

HURT:THE FONZ

[Firestarter]

I started my post after I read the last post, I posted, and then came back and seen that a few posts had been made in the time it took me to write mine.

Why has Fonz been replaced with Yos all of a sudden?

[Firestarter]

FUCK ARE YOU AND IDIOT? WHY DONY TOU READ THE THREAD BEFORE POSTING?

BTW, just so you know... Im no fucking idiot.

Im not here to be abused by anyone....

[Firestarter]

Pop has seemed more town than others, at times.

But confirmed??

Not a chance. How?
How on earth have you convinced yourself your an almost confirmed townie??

[Firestarter]

I started my post after I read the last post, I posted, and then came back and seen that a few posts had been made in the time it took me to write mine.

Why has Fonz been replaced with Yos all of a sudden?

No, I didn't replace Fonz, Fonz is still here.

In the list of lynchess, not the game.

[Firestarter]

i just got so pissed because fonz is obv town and giuseppe was obv scum

Just like the 11 last dead townies were obv-scum.

No, we cannot take anything for granted now.
No-one is confirmed.
DGB is possibly the closest to being confirmed through the death of Xyl, and Q21's claim would also see him up my list likely- town, but no-one is confirmed.

[Firestarter]

kay, my plan is to massclaim since there is an obvious fallen arel in the scumgroup.
so masslciam nao?

I can only find negatives with this...

The biggest being that scum can assess what they ahve to do in order to win the game.

I cannot find any pro's, as any role can be either good or evil.

Drop it please.

[Firestarter]

Its not, and please, dont use all caps.. its highly irritating.

[Firestarter]

I support q21 plan.
Get with the times, SCUM

WTF???

You been harping on about a plan you had, that involved informing scum who was who, and what roles they ahd, thus informing them of likely HP.

[Firestarter]

I support q21 plan.
Get with the times, SCUM

WTF???

You been harping on about a plan you had, that involved informing scum who was who, and what roles they ahd, thus informing them of likely HP.

fire, at the end q21 only needs both seraphims alive, why is it important that we know who are who if at the end all of us are gong to die?

Pop. what on Gods green Earth are you talking about???

You are the one suggesting that we massclaim... WTF???

If you cannot see why we should NOT be claiming, then you are one of 2 things.
Ignorant or Scum.

[Firestarter]

Rage Points???

[Firestarter]

rolf, i want your reasons in your following post.
you have changed your mind accordingly to your needs wiht NO REASON AT ALL.
WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES MADE YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT DGB?

No...

Enough stalling with these questions.

No matter how much I thought you were town Pop, your quickly gathering momentum of being scum.

Lets get on with the plan, your for it, or did I miss somehting, why all the irrelevant questions?

[Firestarter]

Pop.... CAPS???

Enough please....

[Firestarter]

Rage Points???

Kay, you cant read between lines.
telling all my plan to scum will make it useless so i wont support masslciam anymore/

I make no apologies for going with a transparent plan as opposed to one that requires everyone to massclaim first.

[Firestarter]

You think Q21 is scum?

[Firestarter]

Its a possibilty it could happen.

Who do you think is the scum team right now?

[Firestarter]

fire, you are being used by rolf, he thinks you are scum but support your way of reasoning, how is that possible?

Apparently, you also think Im scum... you agree with me being 2nd on the hit list. Pretty conclusive to me.

Revised kill order for my plan.
Yosarian2
Firestarter
The Fonz
populartajo
DGB

i agree with this list.

[Firestarter]

May I ask one question...

Why is Populartajo 2nd last on this list of lynchees?

[Firestarter]

In all fairness, the way this games been goin, I would not at all be surprised to see any of the players names as the scum when the game ends.

Everyone has been scummy to an extent, some more than others, but most of them have turned out town, and deadeded.

Im not going to be listening to peoples gut instincts anymore, that is the sole reason why we are where we are.

The plan Q21 has devised is possibly the only way we can win.
Im not happy about the order, and Im not happy about where Im placed.
But if Im a bigger help to town in death, so be it.
Of course, Im going under the assumption that Q is town.

[Firestarter]

Each lynch depends on the outcome of the previous one, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to let the scum know our plans 5 lynches ahead.

DGB is rightly at the end of the grouping.
This is town everyday.

[Firestarter]

fire, if you are town, i cant believe you are being convinced by rolf.
look how he changes his mind as soon as he feels threatened. and for no reason at all/
THIS HAS TO STOP NOW.

Pop, read my 3771.

[Firestarter]

TAJO, what does it matter WHO i convince that i'm town and who i don't at this point? the endgame will be the same REGARDLESS, so you are WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME

This is pretty much all you need to digest with Q's plan Pop....

It does not matter, Ive been trying to allay this in most of my recent posts.

If Q is town, Town stand a very good chance of winning if it comes down to this 3.
Regardless of who's scum and who is not.

However........

Another consideration to be thinking about IS the 2:2 Seraphim setup as discussed earlier this game.
If Q is town, then he could, Could be faced by 2 Seraphim scum.

I dont know how likely this is, but with everything thats gone before, we cannot rule it out.
Im mentioning this only because we cannot rule it out, and I want this to be out out there.

[Firestarter]

Good luck Pop.

[Firestarter]

Nuwen.. The proposed list is not the way we should go.

Each lynch represents a direction to take afterwards, and as stated by several already, telegraphing the plan is not in the best interests of town.

If scum is hit first, it may change the next player to be lynched list.
If not, it still may change the next to lynch list.

Keep the scum guessing is the order of the day.

[Firestarter]

FIRST DAMAGE TALLY OF THE TWENTY-FOURTH ÆON

DrippingGoofball, q21, The Fonz, and Yosarian2 are all at normal HP.

Nuwen has 2 damage.
populartajo and Firestarter have 3 damage each.
roflcopter has 5 damage.

These are the Hurts since Gods last post.

HURT:THE FONZ

Hurt: The Fonz

blade!

Hurt:Fonz

GOD: Are the tallies correct?
Shouldn't the Fonz have 4 damage right now?

[Firestarter]

@ Q21...

The 2 Seraphim are being kept for last, yes?

If so, whats your take on both of them being scum?

********************************************************

@ Tajo

Your new and improved plan is more or less going to kill town off quicker, and scum will use less rage points in doing so.

The crux here is that you have NOT let your idea of everyone massclaiming drop.

You failed in that bid, for all to massclaim, now you want everyone at L-1.

Guess what....
For that to happen, each player would need to disclose how many HP they have, so they are not accidently killed off by others.

Also....
You may have been nearly/almost townie at one stage, but the amount of stalling on the game youve created amazes me.

Every time a plan was introduced, you kept on about your fake votecount plan.
Now that we have a plan that is based on Q21 being Town, you are trying to concoct a new plan... More stalling.

But in the meantime, you've gone along with hurting the Fonz throughout.

What am I missing???

For me, you should be much higher up the list because of what Ive stated above, and because of your behaviour over the last 10 pages or so.

You could be over anxious town, or scum trying to throw a fucking spanner in the works every chance you get.

[Firestarter]

I find it hugely unlikely that the scum have 3 Seraphim. I will commence a personal vendetta against Flay if that is the case.

I think its a fair assumption to make that both cannot be scum then.

Which makes this plan a must-carry-out.

The latest Rage damage on you, for me, is an indication that this plan will work. scum are now scrambling against the unknown, and will throw everything at you as long as they can.

If we can find at least 1 scum before we whittle down to the last four, then we reduce rage points, which in turn is autowin for town.

Q21, would a heal on my part be a benefit to you now, or should I hold my power to hurt?

[Firestarter]

EBWOP

Actually, its pretty imperative that we do find at least 1 scum before the numbers get down to whereby you are the only townie left, Q.

Assuming we have 3 scum left, or worst case scenario, 4 scum left,
then wont it be tough to win from there?

If Fonz turns out scum, all the better.
But if he's town, that then leaves us with 7 players left, with at worst 3 towns v 4 scum.
I dont think there are any more than 5 scum in this set-up.

It might be a case of you going it alone when it gets down to 5 players left.

I hope we are all reading this?

[Firestarter]

Im not gonna be on till about this time tomorrow evening....

HEAL: Q21

[Firestarter]

After Pops continued arguments against the plan, and still actually going along with it by hurting the fonz, I thought Fonz was gonna flip town.

Ill continue with giving you heals Q21.

[Firestarter]

We need to finish tajo, then we heal Q21.

You're the only one (except tajo) that has hurts/heals right now.

No I dont..

I healed Q last night.. see my 3874

Another 5/6 hours before Im fully charged.

[Firestarter]

Guys, hopefully, Pop is scum.

If not, Im very confident that Yos & roflcopter are.

Q21, Im happy to keep healing you, I'd prefer to hurt Yos.

BTW, just so you know, this plan is going to get Town killed if Pop is NOT scum.
If he is town, he is the only player against this plan.
And if this plan is gonna win it for Town, why is there only 1 player against it?????
Think about it.....

Everyone else is going along with it, so if Pop is town, I'd seriuosly suggest looking at one of his main attackers over the last few pages.

[Firestarter]

HURT: Nuwen

Any towns folk left, follow me...

DGB & Q21, if your town, which I believe you are, Nuwen needs to die asap.

[Firestarter]

Can you back that claim up Yos?

At least on my end?

I dont think so..

One thing that has been prevalent throughout this game, has been the wishy washy cases that have seen Townies lynched.
From where I jumped into the game, since the start...

My thoughts right now, if I didn't post them already, is that Im certain that Nuwen and You, Yos, are at least 2 of the remaining scum.

Giuseppe was on an earlier list of mine, theres been no reason whatsoever to change my opinion on you since you jumped in.

If theres 2 scum left, its you and Nuwen.

Nuwen has the most damage, but you may be a better target if your not as strong... Maybe Your a fallen Arel, a stronger angel on the same hP as Nuwen.

Either way, both of you need to be eliminated next....
There is absolutely no doubt about that, especially since Pop's flip.

[Firestarter]

Well, I know you pretty much have to be scum at this point, because I'm town. And your scumbuddy is obv rofl.

Your so off, its unbelievable...

But again, thats a very sturdy case you got there, best of luck with that, honestly...

BTW, did you

NOT

notice Nuwens last few posts???

One may think your deliberately ignoring them...
We wouldn't want that, some may think you are scum!

[Firestarter]

BTW, did you

NOT

notice Nuwens last few posts???

Nuwens hurt on rofl was not part of Q21's plan, right?

rofl has 6 damage, and Nuwen is simply trying to remove him from the game now.

Thats Scum. End of.

I had rofl down as scum some 30 or 40 pages ago, and just before Tajo's flip.
But not now after Nuwens attack.

As Ive stated, Yos & Nuwen are obv-scum now, and need to be attacked with everything Town has.

[Firestarter]

Can you back that claim up Yos?

At least on my end?

I dont think so..

Well, I know you pretty much have to be scum at this point, because I'm town. And your scumbuddy is obv rofl.

I cant imagine that your buddies would NOT want to slap you for such a poor post...

[Firestarter]

As Ive stated, Yos & Nuwen are obv-scum now, and need to be attacked with everything Town has.

[Firestarter]

I kinda get the feeling its just you and me, firestarter...

Not for long....
Im almost wiped out.

But Ill do what i can..

[Firestarter]

Really enjoyed the game all, it was a pleasure.
I pre-ined for this after the mini game, and Im raging I wasn't around at the start.

Roflcopter did a really bad job of finding scum, and with him NOT being stopped early on, it ultimately cost us.
Call it bad luck if you will, call it a bad aim, but it did cost us.

Q21, well played, you almost won with a superb claim.

DGB.. You bastard.. well played.

Flay.. This was a very good game to be in, and I understand it may have taken some amount of your free time to organise, but if you do start up another one of these games, COUNT me in!!!

Thank you all..
And BTW Fonz.. I was a Loyal Arel.

[Firestarter]

I wanted DGB lynched before Xyl, at one stage.

But someone, I believe Fonz, questioned why DGB before Xyl.

I should have went after DGB first, I had a real good feeling there was a fallen ophan after the fact Metatron, Tenchi, was lynched.

I listened to fonz waaaay too much after I replaced in, it was for the detriment of town.

[Firestarter]

I also made this post on march 29th...

Im not going to be posting thoughts on the game thus far right now guys...
There is a much bigger problem to face before that...

If what I state below comes to fruition, I will then make cases on my list of scum people when needed..
A huge post containing thoughts likely to be heard before will not help right now. Ive read most of the game, but Order needs to restored before we continue.
Order is Towns friend.

10 days have passed, and 4 townies are dead...

Sorry, but thats scandalous.
Ive re-assessed what I stated about Fonz plan in an earlier post....

1st off...

Fonz idea of the buddy plan, one has a case, and the other likes it enough to join in. It will not win the game for town. Its more likely to aide scum imo.

*

Scum concocts a valid case on a town member playing poorly. Town member jumps on board. Town member recieves hurt.

*

Town member makes convincing case against another Town member. Opportunistic Scum jumps on board. Another Town member recieves hurt.

*

Town member makes convincing case against another town member.
Town member jumps on board. Townmember receives hurt.

At this point, I think its more than likely that more Townmembers will get stung with this system than scum will, given the percieved numbers.

Given that the mechanic in this game is most likely similar to the first mini, Rage points prove to be a real pain in the ass right now, regardless of time spent in game.
One of the powers we all have is being completly overlooked here, and scum are laughing up their sleeves at town.
The power I speak of?

HEAL!!!!!

The said Town members who recieved hurts through Fonz' system are now sitting ducks to be murdered.
Scum rape disorganised town, and eventually win.

We seriously need to reassess this system....
No, we seriously need to ditch this system.

______________________________________________________

At this very point, it seems scum may have used up what rage points they had, and do not have the power to secretly hurt further until they recharge.

Now is the time to use Heal powers on everyone bar the scummiest.

Healing would have prolonged the game, but that would have been a good thing, the game was moving too fast, and I questioned Fonz on his idea that the game should have been so quick, lynches, etc, etc..

I never actually brought up the Rage Cap, it was assumed on my part that such a thing existed, from the mini.

[Firestarter]

I wanted DGB lynched before Xyl, at one stage.

But someone, I believe Fonz, questioned why DGB before Xyl.

I should have went after DGB first, I had a real good feeling there was a fallen ophan after the fact Metatron, Tenchi, was lynched.

I listened to fonz waaaay too much after I replaced in, it was for the detriment of town.

WTF!? I was extremely strongly in favour of no Xyl lynch while DGB lives.

As I said, I believed it was you, I could be mistaken...

[Firestarter]

Reading back through my posts, that bit where I was insisting that Xyl, DGB, and Giuseppe were my top suspects is painful.

Actually, in fact, for most of the game i had Xyl, DGB, and either Nuwen or Giuseppe. D'oh.

But your parting shot was fairly inaccurate?

I'm one hurt away from dying, guys.

(Loyal Cherub)

Btw, tajo and firestarter are so scum.

[Firestarter]

Yet you never brought up 'scum cannot kill someone from full +1 hp' EVER.

In all honesty, I though that building every one up to +1 HP was a very very pro-town idea, regardless of a rage cap or not.

[Firestarter]

Yet you never brought up 'scum cannot kill someone from full +1 hp' EVER.

Plus, chances are, the way the game went, the person that would have brought this up would have been lynched on the spot.

[Firestarter]

Oh and Firestarter, you played a great game. Much respect for you.

Thank you, but I think I could have played better, if I concentrated less on the game mechanic.. but thats the way of the crumbling cookie Im afraid.

If Flay resurrects the Loyals,

Im well PRE-Ined for i

t..
A Great setup, and Flay can only be commended for his work here.

[Firestarter]

Nope. Antitown, in absence of rage cap and kill-based rage.

Why is strengthening towns positon anti-town?

[Firestarter]

Yet you never brought up 'scum cannot kill someone from full +1 hp' EVER.

Plus, chances are, the way the game went, the person that would have brought this up would have been lynched on the spot.

That's correct; and the town would have pushed that lynch harder than the scum.

Exactly.

[Firestarter]

Yet you never brought up 'scum cannot kill someone from full +1 hp' EVER.

Plus, chances are, the way the game went, the person that would have brought this up would have been lynched on the spot.

True, thats the other thing that bugged me about this game, so many people werent reading. You had like four hp's taken from you before you finished even replacing in and reading the thread. People kept writing, hurt Drench, hurt Drench...and he was long gone, lol..

I thought Town were very poor when it came to picking up valid scum signs.
But the Fact that 2 of those hurts came from Fonz & Seraphim tells alot really.

Drench had hardly said a word in the actual thread, let alone anything scummy. Yet town went after him AFTER he wanted to be replaced.

Baffling.

[Firestarter]

@ Kinetic

I'm really glad that you died early and no one listened to you.

I think Kinetic would have gunned for you, do you disagree?

A Kinetic regime would have destroyed me, roflcopter and Fonz mid-game...and the end result would have been the same.

If roflcopter was first to go, followed by Fonz, the game could have ended very differently.

[Firestarter]

Rofl is on a tangent of destruction, and as pointed out already, the aim is not the best.

A mid-game post by me...

We really should have acted on the most anti-town behaviour early on.

[Firestarter]

I just started this thread in MD since I think this was an especially notable game. If anyone would be willing to summarize the game, and explain what happened when and why, I think it would be a service to the greater mafia community.

Great Idea Adel.

I would love to contribute my thoughts on this game.
It really was very different to any other Mafia games Ive played in/read.

[Firestarter]

I just started this thread in MD since I think this was an especially notable game. If anyone would be willing to summarize the game, and explain what happened when and why, I think it would be a service to the greater mafia community.

....so should we "fakevote" for who should do it?

VOTE: Kenetic/ABR (to do it together)

Nah, we wont get a general concensus Im afraid!

[Firestarter]

HURT: Kinetic & ABR

For continuing their arguments post-game.

Come on guys, settle down.

WWB.. I dont agree with your last statement.

[Firestarter]

Too many cooks spoilt the broth Im afraid.

[Firestarter]

Thats a protown thing right there...

WINNER: Walt

[Firestarter]

[Firestarter]

Ill leave you to it guys

[Firestarter]

Flavour text was excellent I thought.
Brought a real sense of atmosphere to the game.