Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia II {Game Over!}

[SlySly]

/confirm

[SlySly]

I am a

miller

.

Are you the Death Miller?

---------------------------------

@Lowell

So, you're a Miller? Interesting. Your claim is noted...However, you have done nothing to attract any attention besides this.

He has had 1 post for a total of 9 words, which included a claim. What else could he have done so far to attract attention?

As for the rest of your post, you make many valid points in your post. I think sending 2 scum is obviously the best choice but sending 2 confirmed townies would be a good thing too.

---------------------------------

He seems to be stepping up as the Prisoner's Dilemma expert so I'd imagine he'd know what to do best

He might have more of a clue than you at this point seeing how he and I were both scum together in the Prisoner's Dilemma mini.

[SlySly]

How so?

I understand your concern. Read the mini, I am expecting twists.

---------------------------------------------

Why does this sound like you know there's a Death Miller?

I don't know if there is one or not. That is why I asked.

[SlySly]

A rather controversial twist is

the Death Miller

, whose alignment is shown as "guilty" by the Moderator upon death.

This is why I said "the", I should have said "a".

Nevertheless, there is a big difference between a miller and the/a Death Miller. The games I am aware of that have had Death Millers, have only had one.

[SlySly]

Horrible logic by ... SlySly ...

The only time sending 2 scum together is only a good choice when circumstances align exactly like it did on the last night of the first Prisoner's Dilemma.

My thinking was if there are no townies in prison, the scum can't break in and kill them but if there was no break in, the confirmed townies could get the beneficial outcome of 2 "yes" votes.

[SlySly]

EBWOP: 2 "no" votes

[SlySly]

They could have a couple more in this bigger game.

You've got a point. This is my first large game, I didn't even think about that in the perspective of how many actions may be available.

[SlySly]

1) I don't know what a death miller is. My PM does not lead me to believe I'm anything other than a regular old fashioned miller

Does your PM specifically state that you are Pro-Town?

[SlySly]

1) I don't know what a death miller is. My PM does not lead me to believe I'm anything other than a regular old fashioned miller

Does your PM specifically state that you are Pro-Town?

Yes, it does.

Ok, I am a miller too. My PM also specifically states that I am Protown so I just wanted to validate your claim.

[SlySly]

But I am not a mason.

[SlySly]

send:Lowell
send:SlySly

[SlySly]

Seraphim, The Central Scrutinizer, SlySly, doctor no, Vel-Rahn Koon -

No posts for at least 5 days

My votes are in.

Just a reminder, we

can

vote for end of the day. We don't have to send 6 .

[SlySly]

What a waste of time Day 2 was. So far, this game is no where near as fun as the mini was. Oh well, at least 1 out of 6 that died was scum.

[SlySly]

Slysly, say something, quickly before you are jailed again!

Something, quickly.

In all seriousness, my probing of Lowell early convinced me that he had the same PM as I do. I voted no for him last night. He flipped town upon death as millers do. I have been imprisoned twice and come out with 0 abilities. That is a crock of bs if you ask me.

[SlySly]

Slysly, what choices were you given on Night 1?

A choice would mean I had the option of choosing from more than one option. I was not given a choice. However, I did have a night doc proctection offered to me which I forgot about, until you asked about my choices and I reread my night 1 PM, and I didn't specify to use. So, it was either put on me automatically and that is why I survived the poisoning or for some reason, that is unknown to me, the posion didn't affect me.

[SlySly]

The best course of action would be to send both Percy and myself together.

This sounds reasonable to me. Before posting my send choice, I would like to know what everyone else thinks about this.

[SlySly]

Also, Percy: if you think DGB is scum, what is the best way to kill her?

Maybe we should start sending in scum/town pairs and going for the kills, especially considering scum's seeming ability to gas everyone that is imprisoned.

[SlySly]

How would you know anything about his PM???

Do you know how to read? His answers to my questions matched my PM.

Claiming miller on the heels of a players he knows to be a TRUE miller. I've had a scumbuddy do that in another game, not so long ago, so I'm on to that trick.

You are on to nothing. It is fun watching scum squirm.

[SlySly]

Millers are scum. We kill them.

I can't believe we're letting millers get powers. It's sheer insanity. They should shoot each other down.

You are as right about me as you were about Lowell.

[SlySly]

Why are you even remotely worried about what I think

I'm not, just pointing out where you are wrong.

since there is a fake guilty on me

That's what you say. I believe the result.

and therefore I have no credibility today (except tomorrow with 20/20 hindsignt), and I'll be dead tomorrow morning?

And your credibility is falling with each passing post.

You're a touchy little miller aren't you.

I am a miller, and with this comment it is obvious that you believe that, so why are you trying to tear down a townie, scum?

[SlySly]

DGB is obvious scum. I think we should send DGB in with me. I will vote to kill (yes, 100%). It's a 50/50 shot and if I lose, the town has lost a miller. If I win, the obvious scum will be dead.

There is no need to fulfill DGB's gambit to kill Percy.

send:Sly
send:DGB

[SlySly]

And what's the backup plan when I'm town, and Percy is scum?

1. You will flip scum.
2. If Percy is scum, you are the last person I want dealing with him.
3. Backup plan is that I am open to other plans, but I know that I am somewhat disposable as a miller and I am willing to sacrifice myself to help the town win.

[SlySly]

KILL HIM. One miller is a stretch, two is an impossibility.

I wish there was a day vig so they could kill me and shut you the f@#k up. You are so obvious scum, it hurts.

Your case is a pile of crap. Why did I vote no against Lowell on night 1 if I am scum? If I were scum and believed he was a miller, I would have done him in, but since I am a miller and determined that Lowell wasn't a death miller by determining, through my questioning, that his PM was the same as mine, I voted no because I know he is a miller just like me.

There is a second miller in this game. That would be me. You will be the idiot, not me, when the truth is revealed.

[SlySly]

You should have been VERY suspicious of a second miller claim, and you should have killed Lowell.

I was, that is why I questioned him. His answers MATCHED my PM. Sorry if you don't like it.

But you wanted to come up looking like a townie.

Actually, I just wanted to come out of imprisonment with a day cop power so I could investigate who I thought was suspicious.

And yet, Lowell is dead, and YOU are the one that's alive, with, quite possibly, the help of your buddies.

I don't know why I am alive. My buddies all got poisoned and I am sure that was at the hands of YOUR buddies, if not by you yourself.

[SlySly]

Therefore, I conclude that SlySly, Percy, and Moratorium are the remaining scum.

I KNOW that at least 1/3 of this conclusion is wrong. I have never been so ready to die in a game of mafia to prove my alignment.

[SlySly]

2/3 is pretty good, don't you think?

Going by what I think, I think you are 0 for 3 and are scum.

[SlySly]

Sly (I really did believe your claim, but I think your play today has shown your true colours. "If I was scum why did I say no with Lowell" If DGB was scum as you seem to believe, why did she say no with Plum? Seriously weak defense from a player who beforehand I had no suspicion about.)

What could you possibly have to gauge my scuminess with before today? I have been imprisoned the entire game.

Do you no longer think I am a miller?

If DGB turns out to be scum, your buddying up to her heavily today should be duly noted.

--------

I don't like this 1 for 1 trade, but I may be misunderstanding something. It is just a coin flip, not a 1 for 1. One will die and the other won't. I don't see how we will know the alignment of the survivor either way.

I do agree that one of the 2 is likely to be scum, because I doubt scum would be trying so hard to get imprisoned together. Although...

As KK pointed out earlier, scum could have more tricks like the poison still left up their sleeve and 2 scum could be trying to get in together knowing that if their plans succeed there will be no actions from the imprisoned just like night 2 leaving the town, once again, with nothing the next day.

In the original PD, scum had 1 break-in. They could have a couple more in this bigger game. However most of their kills came from regular NKs.

So worrying about break-ins is a weird blinder to have on.

I wonder if KK still thinks worrying about the scum night actions is a weird blinder to have on.

---------

Because I really don't know what the best plan right now should be, I will...

unsend: All

...and hope for some more discussion that leads me to a decision I feel better about.

[SlySly]

I'm going to be selecting Yes/100%. I'm guessing DGB will be choosing the same, as would any scum in that position. We will both die. One less scum for the town, however you see it.

Ok, I reread the situation where both would vote yes and 100% and it seems you are correct in your interpretation. My problem is that there is no way we can count on the results turning out the way they have been described, as we discovered on night 2. If everything were to go as planned, which I doubt it will because I am sure scum still have tricks left up their sleeve, I would think we send Percy and DGB in to kill each other and then send in more town pairs to gain powers, which night 2 showed us that there is no way we can depend on these outcomes. It would sure be nice to have a regular lynch, as without one, the game seems heavily unbalanced in favor of the scum. If anyone has a daypower that can kill scum, I suggest you give it a try as the night seems to belong to the scum.

[SlySly]

That does make me more comfortable with Moratorium.

I don't see too much usefulness coming out of the discussion on "who caused the poison gas?".

I agree that this discussion isn't particularly useful.

I disagree, an outsider could have broken in during the night and poisoned everyone.

Percy is claiming a role that can cross prison walls. The rules don't allow for roles that cross prison walls to exist.

There is one scenario I see where Percy could be telling the truth but I won't elaborate until he explains for himself.

[SlySly]

Let what go?

The discussion about what caused the poisoning and if the poisoner was inside or outside the prison when the poisoning took place.

[SlySly]

Just let it go people.

I notice you have not made any send choices. What do you feel we should be doing or discussing?

---------

I think I was wrong

You ARE wrong now if you think I am not a miller.

I'm not buddying up to her

Yes, you have been today.

who will dayvig if any complications arise.

You are expecting a perfect night. Bad idea in this game. I do agree sending town pairs to get powers is a great idea, but look how good it has worked so far. It is time for any townies with killing power to step up and do some killing because the town pairs system is getting blown away by the scum night actions.

Really? How could we have known that 4 townies were going to be poisoned one night?

Did I not state on day 1 that we should expect the unexpected in this game?

we're actually not doing to shabby.

I agree, but night 2 was a disaster and I don't think we can afford another one.

[SlySly]

I don't remember you saying to expect the unexpected and

I don't feel like reading day 1 again

That's awfully scummy of you.

[SlySly]

I'm confident you're mafia.

I am more than confident that you are wrong. How hard is it to pick me out of the list and sort by oldest first? Not hard at all. Scum are notoriously lazy and you have demonstrated that trait here.

[SlySly]

Oh my god is the post you're so insistent I read? "I am expecting twists"

That combined with this one where I am clearly stating that scum night actions will screw up well laid town plans of sending town pairs to prison.

My thinking was if there are no townies in prison, the scum can't break in and kill them

-----------------

The fact that you've made a big deal about such a little thing shows you're grasping at the shortest of straws.

The big deal I was making was not what I said, though it is not as "grasping at straws" as you have tried to make it seem. The big deal was your laziness. Laziness is a scumtell in my book.

You've dug a huge pit for yourself today. You went from a player I was confident sending to jail as a townie, to the clearcut frontrunner for scum.

I have dug no pit. Please state your exact case against me that I am scum. Please include every scummy detail.

[SlySly]

I really don't like Percy's defense of his role. Had he said that his being a Prison Cop puts him in the prison due to his employment, I would have believed it. The house defense seems like a stretch in my opinion. I think it is possible that Percy and DGB are scum of different groups. If that is the case, I would support sending them in together.

I'm still anxiously awaiting zach's detailed case against me.

[SlySly]

It's coming, I'll probably have it done for tonight, but that last post is definitely part of it.

I can't wait to see it. Nice that my last post is a big part of your case, almost like you had nothing before while deeming me scum.

The only reason anyone thinks DGB is scum is because Percy says he is the cop.

Not true. I think DGB is scum, in part, because of her extreme insistence that I am scum. I know better and the harder she pushes, the scummier she becomes in my book because I know what my role PM says.

If Percy isn't scum, which is a possibility still, he has a guilty result on DGB.

I only know what my PM says. DGB and Percy could both be town for all I know, but I highly doubt that.

[SlySly]

With my original thinking being considered again...

My thinking was if there are no townies in prison, the scum can't break in and kill them

I could see supporting ending the day after sending a DGB/Percy pair in. However, I see a few problems that make me again wonder if it is a good idea. Unless I am misunderstanding something, the scum do get a NK. If one of DGB/Percy are actually town, the scum could pull off another night action killing the townie of the pair and making sure the PD vote does not happen giving us no information of how they each voted, just like night 2. Then instead of a 1 for 1 trade off, we have 2 more townies dead (assuming a NK by the scum is successful) with all the scum surviving. This would be much better than filling the prison again and having 4 or 5 more townies die due to an unforeseen scum night action.

If both DGB/Percy are scum of different groups and unknown to each other, I would be fine with day end. We would still most likely lose a townie to NK, but 2 scum would be eliminated without having to risk sending more townies in for gassing.

--------------------

I only know what my PM says. DGB and Percy could both be town for all I know, but I highly doubt that.

Please explain how this is possible.

I'm not sure exactly what you are digging for here. I am just stating that my PM is the only one I know for sure about. At this point, in my mind, the likelihood of DGB or Percy, much less both, being town is slim. I'm just saying that I do not know for sure. If I had not played in games before where power roles do visit the house(s) of other players, I would be thinking Percy was lying scum right now. Only past flavor that I have been witness to is keeping the chance alive, in my mind, that Percy's claim is truthful and his result on DGB can be trusted.

------------

A few more thoughts that came to me while typing...

Assuming DP is a SK, I would also be willing to send DGB/Percy, DP/Sly and townish/townish pairs in tonight. No need to keep a SK around because they will soon enough be out for themself and be as happy with killing townies as scum and a miller would be the perfect person to sacrifice to take care of the SK. This gives the town one pair to vote no/no with to get some powers while putting as few townies at risk as possible.

Assuming DP is not a SK, I think sending DGB/Percy and townish/townish pairs in tonight is the best idea. No need to keep filling the prison to the brim with townies for the scum to harvest.

I'm not leaning one way or the other about DP yet, but these thoughts just came to mind and I thought I would throw them out to see what the rest of the town thought.

[SlySly]

Please explain why you think there is any possibility that Percy and DGB are anything but 1 scum and 1 town in some way.

I thought DGB was scum and Percy was town until you brought up the special rule 8. That made me wonder if I had the two alignments backwards.

If they are two scum, please explain how you think they are gambitting, and thus, why you think we should end the day.

If they are scum of the same team, they wouldn't be pushing to get sent in together, in my opinion. Like I said before, if there are no townies in prison the scum can't break in (night action/gassing) and kill them.

If they are two town, please explain why we have a claimed guilty verdict.

Percy could be an insane cop. My PM specifically talks about the sanity of a cop investigations on me.

I'm asking you this because I'm not happy with this new element of confusion that you appear to want to introduce.

I'm often not happy about how confusing this game gets as well.

-------------------

Who can spot the contradiction?

I give up, point it out to me please.

[SlySly]

If this game involves a scum mechanic that allows the mafia to wipe out the prisoners, at their choosing, MULTIPLE TIMES, I will eat Percy's head.

I hope you are hungry, KK made a great point earlier.

In the original PD, scum had 1 break-in. They could have a couple more in this bigger game.

------------------

[...]I think sending DGB/Percy and townish/townish pairs in tonight is the best idea. No need to keep filling the prison to the brim with townies for the scum to harvest.

Who can spot the contradiction?

townish/townish pairs = best idea

filling prison with townies = scum harvest

scum harvest = best idea?

Hence the reason I didn't say, DGB/Percy and townish/townish and townish/townish. Notice in the statement above where I started "Assuming DP is SK" I suggested sending 3 pairs. In the post pointed out, I suggested only 2. 2 pairs does not fill the prison.

---------------------

After this you didn't post anything significant for the rest of the day, and didn't participate in the plan discussion we were having one bit.

Once the send votes were sent in on me and lowell, I assumed I could no longer post as I had been sent to prison. Up until that point, perhaps I had been a little tunnel visioned on the me and lowell voting.

-----------------------

He swore that he had no sanity issue.

I swear I am a miller. I doubt that clears me in your mind. You sure seem quick to believe your adversary when he swears to you. Maybe he doesn't know he is insane.

When Percy's and my alignment are known, it will be a lot easier to identify pro-town players vs. scum.

There is no guarantee will will know both of your alignments after the night.

[SlySly]

Zach, your case on me is every bit as weak as I expected it to be. Lot's of fluff, little content. Very little of your post actually deals with why you think I am scum. It is more analysis of what you don't like about my style of play, not how my style of play in this game has been particularly scummy. I can't wait for post game. I have a fresh pile of poo just waiting to rub your arrogant nose in.

I don't like how sly has been pushing the possibility that the scum can gas again. It's absolutely absurd to believe that that could be anymore than a one shot.

In the mini, I WAS scum and we had more than one trick up our sleeve. It is naive of you and anyone else to think that the scum bag of tricks is already empty in this large game.

Elaborate now please.

I already did. Your reading comprehension is extremely low or you are just grazing over posts.

Implying DGB and Percy are of two different scum groups because Percy's cop claim has fallen apart is ridiculous.

I just said it was possible, I didn't say it was so. I also said it was possible they are both town, why didn't you attempt to rip me apart for that?

After this you didn't post anything significant for the rest of the day, and didn't participate in the plan discussion we were having one bit.
...

There was a week between your votes for you two to go to prison and you going to prison. During that time, we began to discuss plans. You did not participate in that discussion.

I already addressed this too. I even agree with you that I should have participated more before the votes on me and lowell were complete.

--------------------------------------

Does your PM say you're a miller?

It actually says I am a "Protown Miller"

My PM has no hint of miller flavor in mine, that's for sure.

Then I bet it is safe to say that you are not a miller.

--------------------------------------

So we lost 4 townies in the first gas attack. And you are telling me you think it is possible it will happen again.

Have I been stuttering? Yes, I think it is possible that the scum still have the ability to create disaster for the town. I don't know if it will be another gassing, but I think acting like it is already safe to go back in the water without worry is pretty naive, especially from a player of your caliber.

[SlySly]

So why do you think Percy would be insane and not have sanity issues hinted at?

Well, I have never been an insane cop so I wouldn't know what a PM for one would look like from personal experience. I guess I should go look at a few games that have had an insane cop and are completed and look at the PM of it in the post game analysis.

I am assuming that sanity is not clarified in such a role. I could be wrong.

As I have already said, my role PM in this game does hint at sanity issues of cops investigating me. That could be coincidence or it could be that we have sanity issues of the cop(s) in this game.

At this point with all that has come forth, I would like for Percy to not be sent with you tonight because I would like him to use his power to investigate me. If he gets back an innocent, then we could assume he is insane and that his guilty on you is not reliable.

[SlySly]

I'm throwing out there that I don't see this widely discussed contradiction in Percy's claim.

If you don't see reason to question Percy at this point in the game, I suggest you go back and read the last 4 or 5 pages again. Focus on the parts relating to special rule #8.

[SlySly]

We're about to send squirming DGB and

fakeclaiming Percy

to kill each other in prison. If you're not voting them you should vote them now.

Looks like zwet's slipped on his own banana peel.

I have to agree with you here! I'm glad my previous post brought you such enjoyment!!

[SlySly]

Devil's advocate: SlySly, if you think DGB is scum and Percy is town, then whom should we send to crosskill with DGB?

Me. I am a miller, no powers and guilty under sane investigations. But that is only in the case that we don't come up with a better plan. It is looking to me like we are just about committed to a bad plan.

----------------------------

@DGB

What powers does an FBI agent have?

Do you realize that everyone you have said was scum in this game that has flipped has been town?

You had ABR pegged as town, he wasn't.

It also seems you agree that the possibility of Percy being insane is not that much of a stretch.

Reason for claim:
I investigated DGB successfully last night. I received a guilty result. I have no reason to doubt my sanity.

What??? No. That's not possible.

Your sanity is not in doubt, as you are clearly not sane.

Only my death will prove you wrong. Clever gambit if you're scum, congratulations.

Call it hilarious if you will but an innocent investigation on me by Percy would pretty much clear you, especially if we sent a town pair in that actually survived until tomorrow and got their powers and one of them vigged me revealing my role and the truth I have been speaking aobut it all game.

--------------------

@EA

I just voted for the two people for whom nearly every active player had.

Way to jump on the wagon uninformed.

[SlySly]

For the record, just because zwet said Percy is fake claiming doesn't make it so.

[SlySly]

I used my power, that's how the first scumbag got hit.

Who exactly did you kill? DP has taken credit for the two snipes. The other scum death was by injection.

That's totally unfair

Fair or not, the fact of the matter is that everyone you have claimed is scum that has been revealed has turned up as town.

No, I don't. Percy said there's no way he's insane. Thus, he can only be scum.

It's funny to me that in this one instance you seem to be willing to take Percy at his word where no where else do you take anyone else at their word.

[SlySly]

I used my power, that's how the first scumbag got hit.

Who exactly did you kill? DP has taken credit for the two snipes. The other scum death was by injection.

Stephoscope.

All 3 who have been abruptly sent to prison are executed!

Ectomancer, Protown Vanilla Townie, killed by lethal injection Day 1
freeko, Protown Avenger, killed by lethal injection Day 1

Stephoscope, Mafia Goon, killed by lethal injection Day 1

I think you are lying. These 3 people were all killed in one swoop. Had you said you killed all three, I may have believed you. I think you are the fake claimer.

That's totally unfair

Fair or not, the fact of the matter is that everyone you have claimed is scum that has been revealed has turned up as town.

I'm glad you acknowledge the 'fair or not' part of your accusation.

I'm glad you have failed, for the second consecutive time, to acknowledge that everyone you have claimed is scum that has been revealed has turned out to be town.

I agree that he's either insane or scum.

I agree with you about this. I don't think the best way to test his sanity is to send him to prison to die by your hands. I think some townies that are voting to send DGB/Percy to jail need to unsend and reevaluate since it is obvious you are lying.

[SlySly]

Speaking of backtracking...

You just claimed that you killed Steph only.

Full disclosure.

I sent Ectomancer, freeko and Stephoscope for a special lethal injection prisoner's dilemma. I didn't think they'd all die. But I did receive the results of what they did. Each one decided to inject both other prisoners with a full dose.

I sent the two players everyone thought was scummy (ecto and freeko), and one random useless dispensable player (Stephoscope who was doing nothing). I thought the percentages of poison they would order dispensed would be revealing...

Well at least one scum died. Not the one I would have guessed, but hey.

Here you have claimed to have sent all 3 in and they killed each other. You sent all 3 in, so why aren't you taking the credit/blame for all 3? Kind of convenient you only choose to remember killing Steph. Liar. Scum.

This does not sound like a town power to me. A forced PD sounds like a scum power to me and that you just happened to pick a scum that was in a different group than you are in.

------------------------

Speaking of lurking...

Where is The Central Scrutinizer?

[SlySly]

Never did DGB claim that she only killed Steph. You are a world champion straw grasper.

Listen, idiot who can't make an argument, I asked DGB who exactly she killed and her response was "Stephoscope".

[SlySly]

Lowell is dead so his claim is irrelevant now.

Lowell was telling the truth about his claim, which is not irrelevant. Your saying it was irrelevant made me wonder what you didn't want everyone looking back to see what Lowell was saying.

I would send him in with sly if he's guilty. If he's innocent I would send Lowell in with Sly. In both circumstances I would want Sly to say yes 100%. I don't care what the person we send in says because I still think Sly is town, but I'm expecting that they'll say yes to take Sly down with them.

Wait.

If Ross is innocent you want to send ME-- a miller-- in with sly, who you believe to be innocent, and have us both kill ourselves? Instead of, say, sending in a KNOWN INNOCENT (narsis or ross, if the case may be) and having them get powers with sly?
...
Everything about what zach says can be safely ignored completely.

Lowell was uneasy with zach's suggestion that two townies be sent in to kill each other instead doing the right thing and voting no to get town powers out of it. I agree with Lowell that "what zach says can be safely ignored completely" as he is an idiot and very possibly scum. If I were an idiot scum, I wouldn't want this kind of information resurfacing either.

--------------------

You asked which scumbag she killed

Oh really?

Who exactly did you kill?

---------------------

The fact that he didn't consider his sanity at all questionable based on one result says this whole insane cop thing is just bullshit

Maybe he just doesn't know he is insane. I don't know this to be true, I am just trying to get to the bottom of everything. I can't say that I believe anyone 100% right now.

-----------------------

Someone other than zach or DGB that has played a game with an insane cop, please answer me this, do insane cops usually know they are insane and is it usually specified in their PM or is it something that usually has to be tested and revealed?

------------------------

Speaking of lurking...

Where is The Central Scrutinizer?

Has requested replacement.

Ah, ty. It seems like I remember reading that now that you have brought it up.

[SlySly]

@Dr. Pepper:

vote: Slysly

Thanks.

Things I suspect:

- I believe Slysly's miller claim.
- I believe Dr. Pepper / Vel-Rahn Koon is the Serial Killer.

Getting nervous about something?

Why else would you want someone whom you suspect to be a SK to kill someone whom you suspect to be town?

--------------------

I haven't but if they were told from the start that they were insane wouldn't it take away from the point of them being insane? As in they would already know that they only had to state the opposite of their investigation?

My thoughts exactly.

BTW, welcome to the game and especially welcome to the site!!!

[SlySly]

Wiki:

There are three common variations on the Cop role, typically called sanities:

* Insane Cop: always gets incorrect results (i.e. "guilty" for pro-Town roles and "innocent" for anti-Town roles)

once the player realizes they are insane, they can generally produce effective results by reporting the opposite of what they discover

As I suspected, now tell me what was so humorous about my suggestion to validate Percy's sanity by having him investigate me followed by a vig shot on me to validate my claim?

[SlySly]

I used my power, that's how the first scumbag got hit.

Who exactly did you kill? DP has taken credit for the two snipes. The other scum death was by injection.

Stephoscope.

Context, motherfucker. It matters. The scumbag DGB killed was who was in question. Townies have no reason to twist words like you just did.

Cocksmith, you are the one adding context. I asked a straight forward question and got a straight forward answer. My question was followed by a few observations that were not part of the question. Regardless, she should have said 'no one' since technically, by her own admission, they killed each other. But, from my perspective, DGB seems to want the town to give her credit for killing scum so she can convince them to give her the chance to kill another townie. Killing 2 townies doesn't seem to be enough for her bloodthirsty ass.

As for Lowell, I thought he was scummy. So? I thought Emp and Freeko were too. I was wrong.

You have a good track record of jumping on DGB's current wagon and being wrong right along with her about who is scum and you seem insistent on keeping that record alive with your suspicion of me.

You've only given an opinion on DGB.

No, I have given my opinion that you are a blithering idiot. Oh, I'm sorry, that is a fact not an opinion.

Of course an insane cop doesn't know he's insane. That's the point.

No, the point is, if he doesn't know he is insane, we could easily validate it then he could be useful to the town, assuming his claim is not a lie. Do you have some indisputable evidence that Percy is lying or is it just because DGB says so?

The fact that you are trying to make that a talking point is ridiculous. But a sane cop might know for sure he was sane. And the fact that Percy is completely ruling out his sanity means he's either sane or just fake claiming. Insanity is out of the question.

The fact that you don't want to discuss it and send him into prison with his death being the goal is scummy. Sadly, you could be just a poor VI on DGB's bandwagon. Percy ruling out his sanity could merely be that he doesn't know he is insane and has had no reason up until this point to question it.

--------------------

@Mora

Come on by for some poker anytime.

--------------------

I have a new suggestion as to what we could do to validate both Percy's claim and investigation results and my claim at the same time. I will hold this back until some townies interested in winning come forth and request this new idea along with some unsends. It is better than the current plan of a 1 for 1 swap with a power role dying in the process. I would share it now but the scum currently breathing down my neck would just try to pick it apart before others even had a chance to process it.

If this doesn't happen, so be it. Kill me and find out I am telling the truth about my role.

[SlySly]

I did not add any context.

I quoted the fucking post in question

I posted the question which you want to change into something it wasn't.

Stop tying me to DGB.

Don't blame me for your actions.

My opinions are completely independent of hers.

They sure seem to match up a lot right after she posts her thoughts. You will be hating it if she dies, you won't have anyone to tell you what you think.

There is no indisputable evidence that Percy is lying you retard, but it's pretty clear.

How is it pretty clear? You have offered no evidence, why are you so convinced?

His investigation choices make no sense.

His choice could have made perfect sense to him.

He assumed his sanity based on one result, and said he had no reason to question it, ruling out the insane possibility.

That does not rule out in any way that he could be unknowing of his sanity, which you seem quick to dismiss without any evidence that he is lying. Your hunches have been wrong so far. One would think you would want to start actually looking for proof instead of just closing your eyes and throwing darts at the board.

And a player who I am certain is scum

I hope you like poo, Einstein. I'm gonna remind you of your certainty of my alignment after the game. Count on it!!!!

is no longer expressing distrust of Percy.

I don't trust anyone at this point. I have already stated that. I am looking for evidence, not a bandwagon to jump on and be wrong about.

[SlySly]

I'm extremely skeptical of Percy's claim, but I'd be willing to hear of your plan if it does, in fact, lead to a double-confirmation of the two of you.

I will elaborate more on my idea as I see more interest in scum hunting and less bandwagon guessing but as for my skepticism...

Stolen shamelessly from Mora and added to:

Claims so far:

- Slysly, Miller (for me, confirmed)
- Lowell, Miller (confirmed)

- Moratorium, Protown Prison Security Guard (skeptical)
- Percy, Protown Prison Cop (skeptical)

- DrippingGoofball, FBI Agent (skeptical)
- Dr. Pepper, Freelance Vigilante (skeptical of protown, leaning SK but I could just be influenced by others at this point in that leaning, will look into further)
- zwetschenwasser, Protown Variable Bodyguard (no reason to doubt as of yet, but I think it is obvious where my focus has been recently.)

--------------------------

It's getting annoying, because we stopped playing mafia a long time ago. This whole day has had a bunch of elements riding against town from the outset:
...
- No one is scumhunting. Everyone's efforts is on "townhunting". We're wasting Day 1, typically the most active day, on hoping everything works out.
...
And I don't really want to play "pretend I know the best plan" anymore, I want to scumhunt.

Scumhunting,

regardless of this particular game's mechanics

, is useful both to us today, and to future us's who will have to make decisions later and need to put a "book" together on the various players.

I think scumhunting is the best idea still. Have you changed your stance? I start trying to scumhunt and you put your vote in to throw me to the SK.

----------------------

I suspect that so much wierd stuff is going to occur Night 1 that conversation will take a big swing towards some mechanic we're not currently predicting.

After what happened in night 2 and knowing what you know about PD 1 and considering this quote, why are you so quick to dismiss the possibility that scum may still have some tricks left up their sleeves to throw a wrench into a great town plan of imprisoned pairings?

----------------------

Adding to this, the only circumstance that would have helped me semi-confirm my role would be if

any

player who is captured gets some sort of "hey you just got captured" message.

I did receive a "hey you just got captured" message at the start of day 2. Was this by your hands?

----------------------

And also...

I definitely think DGB is being manipulative scum. She's not going apecrazy on Percy, which is unusual for anybody that has been wrongfully accused, not just her. Also, please send at least two pairs of players to jail, if not three. I have three different powers based upon the number of pairs sent to jail, and three is the best one.

Longest post I've ever seen from zwets.

zwets makes a post with some actual info in it and Mora focuses only on the fact that it is the longest post he has ever seen from zwets. Why were you not interested in and ask anything about the powers zwets just mentioned? This seems highly suspicious to me and not at all like the Mora-town player I have seen in the past in this game and at least one other. After 11 more posts, Mora finally gets around to asking about what I would expect a Mora-town player to ask about immediately.

If zwets actually does have some protown powers that are better if we send 3 pairs, as opposed to less, I, for one, am interested and want to know more. It could shed some light on why DGB so wants the day to end fast. Maybe scum have a power that is better if only one pair is sent in.

-------------------

Should I be allowed out of prison to snipe a target of the majorities choice or would you rather put me into the jail with some sort of instructions?

I'd actually rather you continue on your own killing spree. Whether your role is protown or not, your actions (if claim is true) are protown

This is not usual Mora-town protown thinking that I am accustomed to. If DP is the SK, his actions can't be confirmed as protown. He can just shoot in the dark because he doesn't care who he hits as long as they die. He can also look at his lucky shots on scum and use them to his advantage to get us to allow him to live longer like he actually was trying to be protown. If he is the SK, I really doubt he was concerned with hitting scum, and more concerned with hitting someone he didn't expect to be protected in someway.

------------------------

My problem right now is that I still don't actually feel confident about which of Percy and DGB is the actual liar.

So why are you still voting to send them in. I don't see how it can be protown to knowingly send a possible town power role to their death. We are no longer in the non-chalant part of the game like day 1 was. We should be scumhunting. After we determine who is scum, then we should make a plan as to who we should send. I think blind votes to send players to prison at this point in the game is antitown.

-------------------------

I still think that sending them both is the best move regardless, 1 town vs 1 scum is a good deal even if the townie has beneficial powers.

I'm sorry, I think it would be better to send someone without beneficial powers in against DGB. I don't think 1 vs 1 is a good trade with possible power roles.

-------------------------

The Hilarity that is DrippingGoofball and her relationship with confirmed scum.

I completely agree with ABR.

Was it Hilarity when you claimed your own relationship with confirmed scum?

I hereby join the Albert B. Rampage school of thought. Send scum to jail. Don't outguess the mod, play it straight.

---------------------

Does anyone else not think that reasoning out the likely origin of the gas attack is useful information?

I think the origin of the attack could be very useful information.

@DrippingGoofball: About the poison gas attack, which of the following three scenarios do you think is most likely?

A) A survivor of the gas attack caused the gas attack.
B) Surviving the gas attack is a null tell, anyone in prison may have caused this to happen.
C) The gas attack originated from outside the prison.

Do you think there is a scenario that falls outside of these three choices?

D) Scum did it.

I happen to think that A) is the most likely scenario, and that implicates Me, You, and Slysly.

My gut instinct tells me that the attack came from the outside, but that could just come from me being scum in PD1 and knowing that kind of stuff came from the outside in that game. You seem pretty sure it came from the inside and have narrowed it down to you, me and DGB as the possible culprits, and you are now ready to throw a possible town power role into prison with one of your suspects as to who caused the gassing? That does not seem very Mora-town or protown to me.

For me, it's still A), as the dawn flavour didn't seem to imply a break-in.

This does make some sense as to why you think it came from the inside. That doesn't make me feel any more confident about your being Mora-town though.

-------------------

There is one more post from Mora that may need addressing but I need to look through a few other players posts before bringing it out into the light. It might also be the most important one of all so far. I will bring it back up if I find it is as important as I think it might be.

I am not saying Mora is town or scum at this point, but I do think there is some evidence that he is not being as protown as he usually is.

My next read and review is going to be on Percy. I want to get the facts straight before I endorse a plan to send a possible town power role to his death and I would think that would be what any protown player would want to do.

For the record, Mora, if your claim is true, you are one shitty Prison Guard.

--------------------

I hope you like poo, Einstein. I'm gonna remind you of your certainty of my alignment after the game. Count on it!!!!

I look forward to it.

I predict now that after the game, you will be not be around, unless of course you are scum and you will try to play it off scumplay. I highly suspect you are VI and if that is the case, you won't want to be around to suffer the humility.

[SlySly]

if they do anything with their powers other than what we decide, we lynch them.

If the protection fails or the daykill is used on someone else or not used at all, we lynch that person.

Surely, by now, you have figured out we don't get to lynch.

---------------

I'm starting to think that we should try and finish this day off sooner rather than later. We need to start actually hunting scum with the info we gather, and waiting 30 days is just not going to get us anywhere without powers.

Rushing the day is always scummy in my book. Discussion is always the best way to find scum.

----------------

I get a big townread from Albert, even though I disagree with his plans.

You, DGB and Mora have all aligned yourselves with ABR(confirmed scum) in this game at some point. I have yet to microscope DGB, but I see that you eventually became suspicious of ABR and called him out. Unless I missed something, Mora never did this.

You already know where I stand.

You bastards should stop reversing questions on me, it makes me die a little bit inside every time you do it.

Playstyle: I'm not going to discuss things, or really get involved in this game at all. I'm going to rant and rage and tell people how stupid they really are, and try and make them talk so I can insult them. If someone asks me to give an opinion, I'm not going to answer them, just get out my razor blades and cry about how the world doesn't understand me. Or, you know, attack them.

And you seem to be getting away with it, too.

--------------------

No counterclaim, and a dead scum. Seems pretty bulletproof to me.

What kind of counter claim could there be to FBI Agent? Maybe I am reading too much into the flavor, which I have been guilty of before and will probably be again, but an FBI Agent counter doesn't seem possible to me. It does have definite possibility of great scum cover though.

---------------------

I received absolutely no notification that I was imprisoned. None.

I received notification every time I went in. Maybe your lack of notifcation was due to Mora capturing you. Duh!

--------------------

I was roleblocked on Night 1. I can therefore clear Moratorium. I was attempting to investigate DGB.

How does this clear Mora? He could be a scum roleblocker.

---------------------

I would have claimed if Moratorium had been in any danger, but he wasn't - he's unNKable, after all.

I don't understand why his claim made you think he is unNKable.

---------------------

I have no reason to doubt my sanity.

Is there something specific in your PM that says you are sane?

-----------------------

I am a Protown Prison Cop. I can investigate players, but only whilst they are imprisoned.

Imprisoned, or in prison?

As in, can you only investigate someone who was jailed (via "send"), or can you investigate anyone who happens to be in the prison?

My role says "imprisoned". It doesn't get any more specific than that. I took it to mean those who were sent, but I might be wrong.

This questioning gives me the vibe here that Mora is most likely "Scum Prison Guard". That would make sense as to why people don't get notifications when he captures them because it is the action of mafia. It sounds as though he wants to know if you can investigate who he captures to know if he can capture a scumbuddy to keep them away from your investigations. This is in line with his roleblocking you on Night 1 and your investigation result on DGB. This is also in line with Mora pointing out Special Rule 8. If I am right, he doesn't want the town to accept that a role PM of a town power role can override Special Rule 8.

-----------------

Percy: does your ability work if you yourself are in prison?

No.

If the Protown Prison Cop can't investigate players while he is imprisoned, it makes perfect sense that the Protown Prison Cop could investigate the players in prison houses while he is not imprisoned.

--------------------

Why would you chose me as your target, on account of my role, which lead to the death of a scumbag, with no one suspecting me???

DGB was considered (basically) guaranteed town by everyone. However, I was concerned that she might have (1) killed her scumbuddy by accident, and it appeared like a pro-town move, or (2) killed her scumbuddy on purpose as a bussing strategy. No-one was investigating her, and it didn't look like anyone was going to. I tried to investigate her on Night 1, but was roleblocked.

I tossed up between investigating RossWilliam, Plum and DGB, as investigating Narsis would be pointless (given that an investigation of RW would clear Narsis), and the same with the millers. If it wasn't for her ability and claim on the first day, I would have pegged DGB as scum from her playstyle. I became more and more concerned that we were going to let a scum player be our 'most confirmed townie'. If she was town, I wanted to know. If she was scum, I

really

wanted to know.

Sorry scum and scum sympathizers, an investigation on DGB with this line of thinking makes perfect sense to me, especially considering he was roleblocked on his first attempt at investigating her.

-------------------------

I stand by the result. I'll be happy to take her out - one for one trades are awesome for the town. I know I'll kill her, and I know she'll try to kill me, so I'll go with the scum-dead-for-certain plan.

I don't think sacrificing you to kill DGB is the right thing to do. I think there is a better way to take her out and I wish you would unsend yourself until we can find that better way so you can continue to be an asset to the town.

-------------------------

My role states that I can only go to a prisoner's house to investigate them. When I do so, I receive their alignment. That's my power, and I don't know why it appears to contradict the ruleset.

The house thing initially bothered me, but after reading Mora then you back to back, I am much more comfortable with your claim. It initially appeared to contradict the ruleset because that is how Mora wanted it to appear.

-------------------------

I did not include many things I noticed about Percy's play in this read, review and analyze because I was looking for things that made Percy appear scummy. I have to say. up until his claim, he seemed 100% protown to me and after rereading his claim and his defense from his doubters questioning, I think Percy is telling the truth. Percy has been right on so far with who he has said was town and has showed suspicion of Steph and ABR where others haven't. If you don't believe me, do a reread and see for yourself.

------------------------

Next up on my list will be DGB as I am going in order of the "Claims so far" list.

[SlySly]

Re-reading Percy, which takes a while. Percy, please explain this:

8. Players in prison cannot use abilities on others outside of prison and others outside of prison cannot use abilities on players in prison.

This does not say that a cop can't investigate the house of a player that is imprisoned.

I am a Protown Prison Cop. I can investigate players, but only whilst they are imprisoned.

It seems he left the word 'house' off and helped you cause all this confusion.

ortolan wrote:
Percy: does your ability work if you yourself are in prison?

No.

That pretty much explains why his first investigation failed on the night that you captured him, Mora-scum.

---------------

Sorry for the triple post, but it is my bedtime and this is the important post I was referring to earlier and I feel my questions about it were answered while rereading Percy.

[SlySly]

Claims so far:

- Slysly, Miller (for me, confirmed)
- Lowell, Miller (confirmed)

- Moratorium, Protown Prison Security Guard (

Scum lie

)
- Percy, Protown Prison Cop (

Truth

)

- DrippingGoofball, FBI Agent (

Scum lie

)
- Dr. Pepper, Freelance Vigilante (still have not looked into enough)
- zwetschenwasser, Protown Variable Bodyguard (no reason to doubt as of yet, but I think it is obvious where my focus has been recently.)

So essentially, you're skeptical of everyone.

After my reads last night. I have an entirely new outlook on this game. I have fixed a few things in the 'Claims so far' list.

-------------------

For the record, Mora, if your claim is true,

you are one shitty Prison Guard.

Fallacy: Attack the Person.
--------------------

Call it whatever you want, but that gassing happened on your watch. I said you were a shitty guard, I was wrong, you are a scummy guard.

---------------------

Percy is town, Mora and DGB are scum.

[SlySly]

So you think Mora is scumblocker claiming townblocker?

Yes.

[SlySly]

I sent Ectomancer, freeko and Stephoscope for a special lethal injection prisoner's dilemma. I didn't think they'd all die.

This is a complete lie.

According to Special Rule 7, for any prisoner's dilemma, the mod will reveal the results to everyone.

7. I will publicly announce the Yes/No answers for prison interrogations and the Percentages given in the Yes-Yes PD scenario.

[SlySly]

I sent Ectomancer, freeko and Stephoscope for a special lethal injection prisoner's dilemma. I didn't think they'd all die.

This is a complete lie.

According to Special Rule 7, for any prisoner's dilemma, the mod will reveal the results to everyone.

7. I will publicly announce the Yes/No answers for prison interrogations and the Percentages given in the Yes-Yes PD scenario.

I forgot to finish this post.

The results for DGB's "special lethal injection prisoner's dilemma" were never given to the public. That goes against Special Rule 7 and further demonstrates DGB's scuminess. DGB, herself, said it was a 'prisoner's dilemma'. Well, from a PD I expect results straight from the mod, which we didn't get.

[SlySly]

We should NOT be sending Percy in with DGB.

[SlySly]

I'd like to hear from this guy before Percy and DGB lose the ability to speak.

If this isn't just lip service, unsend someone. It sure as hell isn't hard to resend.

[SlySly]

I would like to point out that the ruleset arguments are null and void because of this part of the rules:

Special Rules (add “

unless specified otherwise

” to end of each rule)

Nice try, scum, this is such a reach to cover your ass that I hope you didn't break your arms.

jakep - I can't possibly be fakeclaiming. I have already used my one-shot day action on Day 1. How do you figure I'm fakeclaiming?

Did your brain stop working overnight? You used your scum shot and called it a PD which you are now trying to back track on. How does you using your shot scum ability make your fake claim anywhere near impossible? Are you Korlash incognito, because this attempt at reason is pure Kraplogic?!?!?!

There's a reason why I'm the scum's first priority for the nightkill, unless there's a cop claim trumping me.

That reason you are the town's first priority to be put to death is that you are fake claiming scum.

--------------------------

Watch this scum slip in action....

LOOK: A scum sending ALL TOWNIES...

Send: Narsis

Narsis with DGB.

RossWilliams with Plum.

Sly with Lowell.

She falsely puts herself in this list and admits that she knows I am town, then tries to back track to push her false case.

LOOK: A scum sending ALL TOWNIES...

Send: Narsis

Narsis with DGB.

RossWilliams with Plum.

Sly with Lowell.

Except Sly...

-------------------------

LOOK - Here Percy is agreeing that I'm town. Yet he chose to 'investigate' me twice.

But now he has a guilty on you and I have to agree with you about one thing now, I no longer think Percy is insane. I bet you think he is now, eh? I still think his sanity is worth validating, as I think any protown player should think.

[SlySly]

That is how a protown player with two working brain cells to rub together should think.

Oh, you only have 2 working brain cells? That explains a lot.

[SlySly]

Why don't you do as I did. ASK THE MOD. Report on the answer that the mod gives you.

The mod already stated the results of any PD would be publicly revealed.

But, to appease the scum...

mod: Was DGB's action a forced PD? If so, what were the results?

[SlySly]

And the mod isn't going to answer that, and you know it.

If your action was a PD, the mod will answer it and will provide the results. However, you know your scum action was not a PD and you would like any questions surrounding it to be private. Sorry, this is a public matter and you have been caught in a scummy lie.

[SlySly]

I'd be fine with killing Sly if that's the direction we're going.

You're not easily fooled

You are quite the comedian since being exposed.

[SlySly]

Who would you like to see go into a jail with you tonight? Suggest three names.

I would like to see DGB/Mora going to prison to kill each other as the first pairing.

[SlySly]

No. THREE players. Give three players that YOU would be willing to go to jail with. Tonight.

I'll take it one pairing at a time and I will NOT be steered by scum into my decisions.

[SlySly]

You're not taking any decisions. You are merely being probed for your preferences.

Well, there are not many players I trust at this point. My preferences on who I would be sent to prison with would also depend on if I was going in to kill them or to gain powers with them.

I am convinced you and Mora are scum.

I believe Percy has a guilty result on you and I have heard no counter claims, though in a large game I guess there possibly could be more than one cop and really no reason to counter. The only problem with Percy I have is the question of his sanity.

I believe zach is easily steered and has shown willingness to jump on a popular wagon uninformed.

I feel zwet is the 5 word post master. Even though, some of his 5 word postings have been spot on with some of the things I believe.

ortolan, hp, killa seven & solorpg have been lurking so much recently I don't really have a good read on any of them.

EA started off anti-town bandwagonish but has seemed to redeem himself somewhat since.

jakep replaced a huge lurker and has not given me enough content to have a good read, but obviously I like some of the things it seems he believes.

I think it is quite possible that DP is a SK but I haven't looked back through all the posts yet to solidify this theory.

With all the lurking going on, I think it is too soon to be able to honestly give you 3 names of players I would want to be sent to prison with to gain powers. If I were going in to mutual kill someone, I think it is obvious at this point I would want to go with DGB or Mora.

----------------------

Don't you think they are both scum? Wont they say no/no if you're right?

Nice to see you pushing those 2 brain cells of yours to the limit. Yes, I do believe they are both scum. If they said no/no, wouldn't that immediately confirm their scumminess? I'm not sure if there is a certain order as to how the day actions would be applied, since there haven't yet been any gained, but if we had a town pair go in and get day vig powers, they could immediately be used on the DGB/Mora pair if they did say no/no.

Refusing to give your opinion when asked is scummy as hell.

Refusing scum is not scummy in my book.

[SlySly]

You can't pick me or Percy, we're already spoken for.

And you're going in to kill.

Where were you appointed decider of how things are going to go?

So you'd want to go with Mora? He's the only one?

I would rather go and gain power as I am town, but if it takes killing Mora to prove it fine. The only thing making me question my thoughts on Mora is your willingness to be rid of him.

I believe Percy has a guilty result on you

and I have heard no counter claims, though in a large game I guess there possibly could be more than one cop and really no reason to counter.

The only problem with Percy I have is the question of his sanity.

This sentence caught my attention. Can another player guess why? I have another lollipop to give away for the right answer.

Give me my lollipop.

[SlySly]

Now, I believe both Percy and myself are at minus 1. Time to ship us off.

In a hurry? Of course you are, you are scum and you see how things are going and are obviously excited about something.

[SlySly]

Shipping DGB/Percy off is supporting the killing of a town power role. Simple as that. There is a better way to deal with DGB scum.

[SlySly]

I think that's too risky to send 2 people that you think are scum in with each other.

On the surface of things, this concern is valid logic in my book but I am not so sure that sending 2 scum together is absolutely always a guaranteed disaster for the town. I am not hard set on a plan yet, I am still trying to clarify things so the best plan may become clear.

Even with 2 townies who had dayvigs we would be putting it down to luck with regards to who comes online first after the next day starts.

You know, I think that we have had day powers given and I just forgot. Didn't Lowell receive one and was able to change it? Let me go back and look, I could have easily missed something that happened during my two nights of imprisonment and all the RL stuff I was dealing with at the time. I understand your logic here but I don't think we know how day powers are granted and the order in which they get applied yet. Let me get back with you on this.

I now think that the safest thing to do is to send Percy and DGB in and then send 2 obvious townies in together as well. Unless Percy is an insane cop at least one of them is scum and I think the chances of them both being scum are pretty slim.

So you don't think there is even a possibility that Percy is exactly what he says he is and that his claim and result on DGB is true?

[SlySly]

Okay I took cop instead of vig.

After being scrutinized and called scum by zach for taking the wrong choice...

Alright I've asked mod to change to vig if I can.

Mod said I could switch. I'm now a vig.

After more scrutiny from ortolan and KK...

From my interactions with the mod (and the fact that there didn't seem to be a time limit for choosing the role) it sounds like the whole thing is relatively fluid. As in, until I send in specific requests to kill or investigate someone, I can choose whatever I want.

A now confirmed townie expressed his happiness that Lowell was now a vig and the town had a regluar lynch by means of day vig...

now we have a regular lynching mechanic back! i'm so happy.

After RW reveals the results of his investigation...

Narsis is not guilty. He is innocent

ortolan, scummily, makes his plea for Lowell to do investigation as opposed to giving the town an information gathering regular lynch, by means of Lowell's day vig...

I would rather get another investigation personally

sure there could be godfathers or whatever but it would be very risky for scum to lie when investigating their partner, and if they get a fake guilty on a townie then we kill them at earliest available opportunity.

The now confirmed townie Narsis, expresses his disgust with ortolan's scummy plea...

how did i know someone would bring up possiblity of godfather. T.T

anyway, it's time to go back to some good old scumhunting.

ortolan then tries to discredit the now confirmed townie, Narsis, as being paranoid...

it wasn't in relation to you; merely my opinion on whether to vig or lynch next

no need to be so paranoid

Lowell, also a now confirmed Protown Miller, trying to prove his towniness, shows willingness to do whatever the town asks of him...

So I'm investigating ross? I'll give one day for anyone to protest then I'll do it.

For whatever reason, no one even brings up the possibility of using Lowell's day vig power as a regular lynch again, I bet the scum were ecstatic!!!

Confirmed townie Narsis shows a little resistance to the back to no lynch plan with his "hmm..." then puts his vote in to investigate RW...

hmm...i guess we could investigate RW.

zach then chimes in by agreeing to investigate RW, but if RW is innocent he wants to send in confirmed Protown Miller with me and have me and Lowell kill each other...

I would send him in with sly if he's guilty. If he's innocent I would send Lowell in with Sly. In both circumstances I would want Sly to say yes 100%. I don't care what the person we send in says because I still think Sly is town, but I'm expecting that they'll say yes to take Sly down with them.

Confirmed Protown Miller Lowell expresses his confusion with zach's idiotic plan...

Wait.

If Ross is innocent you want to send ME-- a miller-- in with sly, who you believe to be innocent, and have us both kill ourselves? Instead of, say, sending in a KNOWN INNOCENT (narsis or ross, if the case may be) and having them get powers with sly?
...

Everything about what zach says can be safely ignored completely.

zach reiterates his idiocy/scumminess by attempting to discredit confirmed Protown Miller Lowell's play for the day, who did nothing other than what the town asked of him, in support of having Lowell's send himself on a suicide mission...

We send you with sly to die because I didn't like your play today one bit and think you're scum, and if you aren't, we confirm the investigation results.

A now confirmed scum, ABR, then distances himself from zach...

Actually, no. How about we investigate zach instead of Ross?

TCS shows his approval for a great idea...

Actually, no. How about we investigate zach instead of Ross?

Plus One11111.

RW supports investigation of himself...

I support investigating RossWilliam. If I'm confirmed, than Narsis is confirmed. If my alignment is unknown, Narsis's towniness is unconfirmed.

Then finally, Lowell reveals his results and, as scum rejoice, the chance for an information gathering regular lynch dies...

Ross is NOT GUILTY.

That makes Ross's investigation of narsis truthful as well.

I'd put either one of them in with someone we think is innocent (sly) and have them vote no again.

Then after much lurking and lack of contribution, hp show his apparent disgust upon realization...

Wait, we gave up our lynch?

-----------------

Aftermath:

Confirmed scum ABR suggests his pairings and Lowell says he is fine with the pairings and seems to want everyone to say 'no' for the town to gain powers...

Send: Narsis

Narsis with DGB.

RossWilliams with Plum.

Sly with Lowell.

I'm okay with this. With all players saying "no"?

But zach has bloodthirst for confirmed Protown Miller Lowell and expresses so...

Sly says yes

Confirmed Protown Miller Lowell appropriately responds...

Sly says yes

That's still stupid.

Confirmed townie Narsis shows his concern that killing confirmed Protown Miller Lowell off is most likely scum trying to off another townie...

sounds fine to me. although a part of me is wondering if killing Lowell off just like that to confirm mine a Ross's identities is the right idea. it seems like an easy way for mafia to kill off another pro-town player.

zach again trys to discredit confirmed Protown Miller Lowell's protown play after Lowell acknowledged his mistake and willingness to do anything the town asked afterwards and shows further support of confirmed Protown Miller Lowell's death...

His play earlier in the day before we knew that the prisoners could change their abilities was very suspect... I think he's mafia. And if I'm wrong...I want Sly to kill him.

--------------

So...

According to the rules on the first page you get to choose which ability you want. I would be fairly sure that the order in which they are applied is just the order in which people use them. Which is why I think that 2 scum with day powers could just make sure that they are the first 2 online and choose to dayvig the 2 townies with powers immediately.

You are correct, they can use them at will. After reading what I just pointed out, it is obvious they can choose either power they want to use, and we do know which power the scum would choose. So sending DGB/Mora is probably not a good idea. It would only be a good idea if we had a day cop to protect our now empowered town pair which we have no way of knowing and I am damn sure not asking to be revealed.

At this point, I think I would be fine with being sent to prison to gain power with EA or zwet. As for who to be sent in to kill, DGB and zach would be my first choices and to a lesser degree, ortolan. Mora would be at the top of this list if not for DGB's apparent willingness for a Mora death.

[SlySly]

Just as I suspected, it was not a PD. This confirms DGB is a liar, not that there was ever any doubt.

[SlySly]

I didn't twist anything, if it were a PD, the results would have been revealed to us.

7. I will publicly announce the Yes/No answers for prison interrogations and the Percentages given in the Yes-Yes PD scenario.

[SlySly]

It almost seems like you are trying to defend DGB.

[SlySly]

Oh, nice sig btw!!!

[SlySly]

Where has anything about your fake PD been specified otherwise?

[SlySly]

Regardless of who else gets sent, I think Mora needs to be sent, with whoever the town decides, so he can't capture anyone else, of his own choosing, and doing another crappy job of securing the prison like he did in night 2.

[SlySly]

Indeed, it was specified that I would be informed of the percentages that the players would choose.

So you say. The special rules do not state "unless specified otherwise by DGB". I think it is safe to say, those other specifications will come from the mod, not from you.

Even you agreed that the results should have been made public, or found it strange strange that they weren't (going on memory here). Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. This argument is going no where between us, the info is out there for everyone else to process and decide on whenever they decide to come back and participate.

[SlySly]

zachattack wrote:

His play earlier in the day before we knew that the prisoners could change their abilities was very suspect... I think he's mafia. And if I'm wrong...I want Sly to kill him.

And you fucking scummy piece of shit, DONT TAKE BITS AND PIECES FROM QUOTES! CONTEXT MATTERS!!!~!!!!!

Not on Lowell. If he's telling the truth he's a miller. If he's lying he's scum. Either way he will come up scum.

His play earlier in the day before we knew that the prisoners could change their abilities was very suspect.

His miller claim could have come from seeing that we could potentially have tons of daycops running around, so he pre-empted getting investigated. He was the only 'pro-town' player who stayed out of jail today, depriving us of 3 potential abilities.

I think he's mafia.

And if I'm wrong, we confirm Narsis and Ross as town

. I want Sly to kill him.

Personally I would prefer if Lowell says no, allows himself to die, and gives us an extra investigate, so we have 5 abilities tomorrow, but I'm not counting on it.

I have highlighted the parts of your quote that in no way pertained to the point I was making and do not add any context to discredit the point I was making.

[SlySly]

EBWOP:

zachattack wrote:

His play earlier in the day before we knew that the prisoners could change their abilities was very suspect... I think he's mafia. And if I'm wrong...I want Sly to kill him.

And you fucking scummy piece of shit, DONT TAKE BITS AND PIECES FROM QUOTES! CONTEXT MATTERS!!!~!!!!!

Not on Lowell. If he's telling the truth he's a miller. If he's lying he's scum. Either way he will come up scum.

His play earlier in the day before we knew that the prisoners could change their abilities was very suspect.

His miller claim could have come from seeing that we could potentially have tons of daycops running around, so he pre-empted getting investigated. He was the only 'pro-town' player who stayed out of jail today, depriving us of 3 potential abilities.

I think he's mafia. And if I'm wrong,

we confirm Narsis and Ross as town

. I want Sly to kill him.

Personally I would prefer if Lowell says no, allows himself to die, and gives us an extra investigate, so we have 5 abilities tomorrow, but I'm not counting on it.

I have highlighted the parts of your quote that in no way pertained to the point I was making and do not add any context to discredit the point I was making.

---------

I misplaced one bold tag didn't want to get scummarized for it.


--------------------

I'm back to thinking you're full up 110% scum.

Big shocker!!! How many times is this that you have flip-flopped your opinion of me. You can call me town 5,000 times and I am still gonna think you are scum. Buttering me up is not going to change my stance. My name isn't zach.

You will be wearing the egg you are wishing on me along with your scumbuddy zach when it is revealed I am town.

[SlySly]

me look like bloodthirsty scum

Yes, you do.

You are scum. 110%...You are not a townie.

Care to place a financial wager on this fact?

[SlySly]

You are scummier than Percy and DGB put together.

You sure seem pretty sure of yourself, refer back to my last post and answer the question, scum. It seems your panties have tied themselves into quite a knot!!

That same question is posed to you too, DGB.

[SlySly]

You both know I am town and I know you are both scum. zach is going to be lost without someone giving him his opinion to repeat when DGB dies. Not surprising zach scared to put his money where his scummy mouth is.

[SlySly]

How ever much you have to lose.

[SlySly]

1. I don't make bets and welsh on them.

2. Making a friendly wager in game can't be legal and will most likely be frowned upon by the mod, so I will refrain from pushing the issue further, in thread. However, if you care to send me a PM, we can exchange email addresses and what happens outside the thread and off of the site is no one's else's business but ours.

[SlySly]

So you ask me to make a bet. You call me scummy for not making a monetary bet with a stranger on a mafia forum. I call your bluff, and now you're concerned the mod won't appreciate it and back off. Nice failed attempt to throw suspicion on me, I am sure you can do better than that.

No, I called you a pussy for being scared to put your money where you mouth is. If I didn't, I meant to, pussy. Feel free to send that PM when you grow a set and are truly ready to back your bullshit up.

I called you scummy for hammering on confirmed Protown Miller Lowell after he presented clearly protown actions over and over.

[SlySly]

If you grow a set, I don't mind sacrificing myself AT ALL to take out scum. The second you do, I will vote to send Sly/zach.

[SlySly]

$1,000 says I am not scum. We on?

[SlySly]

send:Sly
send:Zach

[SlySly]

That ain't part of the bet. If you want me to remove my sends until later I will.

[SlySly]

There is only one element to the bet and that is my alignment. I am going to continue the game as if there were no bet. So I will remove my sends as I don't want our wager interfering with the game at all.

unsend:all

[SlySly]

You're NOT the type who is capable of changing his mind according to evidence.

Let's see...

I thought Mora was town, but the evidence suggests that he is scum.

I thought ortolan was town, but there is evidence now that suggests that he is scum.

My initial reaction to Percy's claim after Mora pointed out Special Rule 8 was that Percy was lying scum, but after reading back through, the evidence suggests that Percy is telling the truth.

I thought zach was town, then I thought he was VI, then I thought he was scum, but now, I'm sure he has to be town because if he were scum, he wouldn't be stupid enough to take my bet knowing I am not scum. I still think he is scum though and you can make another lollipop statement if you like (because I know there is contradiction in this particular zach analysis), but I know you can hear loud and clear where I am coming from here.

That's because you make up your mind according to your alignment, which is scum.

Wrong!

You already know the other players' alignments, and which players you want to see dead, and nothing they say will change those facts.

The only things I know for sure in this game are, 1. I am a Protown Miller and 2. I am going to be $1,000 richer after my alignment is revealed, unless, of course, zach is a bet welsher.

You have no motive to change your mind.

No one has motive to change their mind. If they have motive, their mind is already made up then they seek method to execute their motive.

You have no uncertainties. Only townies have uncertainties.

I am uncertain of everything in this game except the 2 points I pointed out above but that doesn't mean I am without belief or suspicion in this game. I still believe that you are lying scum because there is no evidence that 'specifies otherwise'.

[SlySly]

At the risk of being called a pussy, and a bitch

I save the name calling for the arrogant name callers.

[SlySly]

Especially since Sly obviously has no intention of paying

No, Sly has intention of collecting.

[SlySly]

As long as the things I have pointed out are being dismissed and ignored and not discussed, I will vote 'yes' with anyone I am paired up with. If you don't want me voting 'yes' I want discussion from everyone about 1351.

[SlySly]

Does anyone actually believe I am smart enough to bus a player?

[SlySly]

Percy, why have you stopped participating?

[SlySly]

Screw it. No one seems to give a shit about killing a town power role except me.

send: DGB
send: Percy

Unless I am wrong, I think this puts them both over the count. It will be nice to finally have DGB silenced.

[SlySly]

I may have counted wrong, but I think Percy was at S-1

[SlySly]

Get it all out. Your steering of players will soon end DGB.

[SlySly]

Then after much lurking and lack of contribution, hp show his apparent disgust upon realization...

Wait, we gave up our lynch?

Please replace lurking with V/LA. Thanks ^_^

I will not because you V/LA post didn't come until 8 days after you made this post. Before this post, lurker, you had made no V/LA post.

[SlySly]

Over-reaction much?

Someone says they weren't lurking because they were V/LA at the time of the post I pointed out but their V/LA post didn't come until 8 days later. I point it out and that is overreacting?

[SlySly]

[SlySly]

You're right, zwet, scum would never lurk and call it V/LA. Forgive me, hp, you now have a free pass to end game, compliments of zwet.

[SlySly]

In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, I am bussing zwet and hp and distancing myself from that obvious scum, Sly.

[SlySly]

DGB, my further decisions and analysis will only be exposed after you are silenced.

zwet, you're read on me is correct. Meta, I'm no different, ever.

Sly activity always = interpreted as scummy.

[SlySly]

DGB, my further decisions and analysis will only be exposed after you are silenced.

What, you're afraid I'll catch you in more lies? I'm too clever? You're afraid I'm ten steps ahead of you? You're afraid I might question your motives, and perhaps expose you?

You only need to fear me if you're scum.

Shut up, scum. Your time of steering is over.

[SlySly]

Shut up, scum. Your time of steering is over.

Cowardly scum?

Fed up Protown Miller.

[SlySly]

So, you're willing to cast aspersions on hp[leaves]

I just caught him in a lie, I'm not going to let a lie slide.

but you're not willing to go to jail and rid the town of him?

I didn't say if I was or not. The next pairing will be discussed without your scummy input so you best twist all you can now because your silence is coming sooner than later, scum.

[SlySly]

"unless otherwise specifed", my ass.

[SlySly]

Dog poo

[SlySly]

I did receive a "hey you just got captured" message at the start of day 2. Was this by your hands?

Paraphrase this message exactly also please.

It pretty much says "hey you just got captured" into prison at the start of day 2. Good enough? You think I am deviously holding something back here?

In the thread, it said "The Police Chief" was who captured me. In PD1, the scum had a "Police Chief" power. It appears they did in this game too, and prevented the town from getting powers.

[SlySly]

For the record, Mora, if your claim is true, you are one shitty Prison Guard.

Why?

Did you miss the gassing? 4 townies dead, nice guarding.

It pretty much says "hey you just got captured" into prison at the start of day 2. Good enough? You think I am deviously holding something back here?

Well that was clearly not Mora's claimed power then.

Did you notice he never answered me when I asked him if he was responsible for this?

I forgot to finish this post.

The results for DGB's "special lethal injection prisoner's dilemma" were never given to the public. That goes against Special Rule 7 and further demonstrates DGB's scuminess. DGB, herself, said it was a 'prisoner's dilemma'. Well, from a PD I expect results straight from the mod, which we didn't get.

This is very weak.

If you say so.

We should NOT be sending Percy in with DGB.

Why?

Duh, Percy is Protown Prison Cop.

Sounds godfatherrific.

Well spotted

It's really not hard for scum to spot scum.

ortolan, scummily, makes his plea for Lowell to do investigation as opposed to giving the town an information gathering regular lynch, by means of Lowell's day vig...

Why is that scummy?

Seems scummy to me, and should to everyone, to suggest the town give up their only chance at a lynch.

What do you think of Moratorium, btw?

This suggests lack of reading.

The only other players who we can spare that I trust are ortolan and Mora, and I want them getting town powers together.

I'm down with this, not for quite the same reasons though

Yeah, I don't really think we can spare townies.

I thought ortolan was town, but there is evidence now that suggests that he is scum.

Is this evidence the fact that I have been posting less in conjunction with you re-quoting an old post which you've had access to pretty much all game, and interpreting my scumminess into it?

I was imprisoned for 2 nights and couldn't post for most of the game.

My preference is for Sly being vigged tonight currently.

Your desire to kill a townie is noted.

[SlySly]

@Mora

Fed up Protown Miller.

[SlySly]

I also came up with speculation about his miller claim day one- all he really did to "confirm" Lowell was ask "does your role pm explicitly state that you are pro-town?"

A game I played recently had a death miller, I wanted to confirm that Lowell wasn't lying about it. I asked him if his PM specified protown. Go look at how he flipped. Protown Miller. Same role I have. That is why I was convinced. No deviant cleverness to it.

[SlySly]

None of this has anything to do with what happens to people who are sent, has nothing to do with the daytime jailing that occured (that [DGB has] claimed as FBI agent to have caused), has nothing to do with the three people who were force-jailed on Night 2. I don't have anything to do with any of that. I just put one person per night in a little cage.

I wasn't sent day 2 and I wasn't sent by DGB's fake PD action.

I received a message like you described at the start of day 2 and I already knew you said your action was for night only, but I was curious and that is why I asked if you were responsible for my day capture, which you never answered because you felt you had already addressed it.

------------------------

Especially for trying to silence DGB instead of just discussing what to do with the remaining cells...I have twice tried to move discussion forward past the Percy/DGB debate.

I am through discussing anything with DGBscum in this game. It is pointless. She is scum and everything she does is scum posturing.

I was trying to save a town power role, it was nice of you to try and move us passed doing so.

[SlySly]

Will twilight ever end?

[SlySly]

You were the only one trying to save Percy when a majority of others had decided it better to test each of them by taking the other out.

Oh, how did I forget that a majority is never wrong? It seems the majority thinks I am scum.

I can't wait to see that grenade splatter your guts.

[SlySly]

Listen to all these scum tell the town to send everyone to die and no one to gain powers.

[SlySly]

Excuse me, I forgot you were in charge, DGB. The length of this twilight is agonizing.

[SlySly]

I only wish you were going with DGB so we could have some discussion with far less scumfluence.

[SlySly]

Thank Mod the twilight is over!!!!

[SlySly]

Mora and Ort are both likely scum, they shouldn't be sent together.

Send EA and zwet for power gathering.

[SlySly]

I don't see how his judgment is a problem here.

Anyone listening to or agreeing with zach should have their judgment questioned.

[SlySly]

Kinda seems like I'm not the only twister here, eh?

[SlySly]

I would assume it wouldn't be revealed until after the game. If it were revealed in game, everyone would know there were 2 factions, that kinda goes against the premise of the game in my opinion.

[SlySly]

When people died in that game, did it say "Mafia A" or "Mafia B"?

I've seen that, but I have only read finished games with multiple mafia factions.

How did it happen in the games you read that were finished?

[SlySly]

I think it could have some relevance, however, I dont think it is provable either way. After doing a little research, I have determined that multiple scum factions and how they are revealed depends on the mod. So the argument seems like WIFOM to me. I do suspect there are multiple scum groups in this game though.

[SlySly]

SlySly, that was a terrible move to silence both DGB and Percy. If DGB is town, her contributions have been great asset to the town. The DGB is scum, then you just silenced a cop who had a guilty result on her. Prematurely silencing players is a pretty heavy scum tell in my opinion.

1. You are reaching hard here. I never said anything about silencing Percy. If I did, quote it, please.
2. DGB is scum and her contributions have been nothing but harmful to the town. Her silencing was not premature, it was overdue.
3. I was the

only one

concerned with saving the cop. You sure as hell weren't stepping up trying to help keep him alive. If you can find where someone other than me was trying to keep Percy from going in with DGB for the purposes of trying to save the town cop, please quote it.
4. Percy had plenty of time to talk, he just didn't because he felt everything being discussed was something he had already addressed or was just rehashing of old points or new points of DGB's that were so ridiculous they didn't warrant his response.

I'm sorry if you all think I didn't defend myself enough. It was going over and over the same old arguments (and new ones that DGB scrounged out that were so painfully obviously wrong that I didn't think I needed to say anything). Many of the questions posed to me were ones I had already answered.

5. For the alignments revealed so far, everyone DGB has said was scum, flipped town. Everyone Percy has said was town has flipped town. Here is some of his most current predictions...

I don't like the idea of zach and Sly getting sent together. I think there is a good enough chance that they're both town, and we'd be losing three town players tonight.

6. You had it right, and I know you are going to try and backtrack it as a typo, when you said...

The DGB is scum

7. I find it interesting that in his last post, Percy seems to have suggested you might be lying scum.

However, I will ask this: Why is Dr Pepper volunteering to go in and die to kill Sly, when he could just use his vig powers to kill Sly and continue to be this awesome pro-town power role he's claiming to be? Especially given that zwet can protect both of them and kill any attackers.

I am fine going in with DP.

send:DP
send:Sly

[SlySly]

If I get sent with zach, I will vote no because I believe him to be VI that was being steered by DGB. If he votes no, we both get a power tomorrow. If he votes yes, I die and my alignment is confirmed and he still gets a power. I suggest he take out whoever is still alive between Mora, ortolan and DP.

If I get sent with DP, I'm killing.

Thanks for the grid that makes us have to scroll over to read post Mora.

[SlySly]

My win condition is pro-town. In some fashion that is not a quote [I win when all non-townies are no longer with us.]

Well, a paraphrase my win condition is...

I win with the town when all Antitown forces are gone.

-----------------

Townies, check your PM and see which of these win conditions is closest to your own.

Me taking out DP will eliminate one Antitown force.

[SlySly]

Wow. Am I not allowed to paraphrase my win condition? I didn't see this reaction to DP's paraphrase of his win condition.

[SlySly]

I changed more than one word.

[SlySly]

I didn't intentionally do anything wrong. zach, I misread the yes/no results. You are correct, you won't get a kill being sent with me unless you vote no.

[SlySly]

I didn't quote anything and that is what the rules state.

[SlySly]

Do not directly quote any PMs you receive

I was within the rules.

[SlySly]

Wow, what just happened?

I exposed DP as a fraud and Mora got pissed and quit.

[SlySly]

Fair enough, but I don't think the mod will look too kindly upon it.

Well, I hope I am not modkilled as I think I have played within the rules.

----------------

I'm not paying that bet by the way.

Big shocker. I already knew you wouldn't be a man of your word. Your word, like your game, is worthless.

Never play mafia again. Seriously, you suck.

Your reads have been sooooooo good this game. Look in the mirror and lie to yourself about how good you are at mafia. I know I am not the best mafia player in the world, but I am trying to get better. I used to play like you by not thinking and letting the scum steer me too.

[SlySly]

Everything about what zach says can be safely ignored completely.

QFT, again!!

[SlySly]

You are a

Protown Vanilla Townie

. You have no special abilities. You win with the town when all Antitown forces are eliminated.

In the third post of the game. Everyone knows the Vanilla win condition. Why are we making this like it means something?

Absolutely hilarious!!!!

Notice how DP's win condition didn't include anyone but himself?

-------------------

Attack the player instead of what they're saying Sly, keep up the good work.

It's just so easy when players are as stupid as you. You wouldn't recognize a tell if it slapped you in the face.

[SlySly]

Wow, what just happened?

How were you town?

zach is scum.

zach had no idea what happened because he didn't need to look at his PM to see if it matched, he already knew it didn't.

If I go with zach now, I will kill him too.

[SlySly]

Mora, put your tail back between your legs and come back and play.

[SlySly]

It did match.

Sure it did.

That's the only reason I would have possibly believed you were town. That was a good try Sly, but there is simply no way you are town.

Bet back on?

---------------------------

You didn't fish as much out of Lowell earlier as you just did out of Dr. P, because you knew Lowell was telling the truth before you even asked a question.

I didn't know until he specified his PM said Protown. You fished out that Lowell was scum, great catch!!!

Lowell isn't scum just because he took the wrong choice. Lowell is scum because he claimed miller unprovoked

I think Lowell's scum

---------------------------

More of your awesome reads...

some of the stuff Freeko has said reinforces in my mind that he is probably scum. I agree with your suggestion to daykill him tomorrow. He's probably scum, and even if he's not, he's very unlikely to help us.

I agree on Empking being scum...anyone who disagrees is scum really comes across as scummy to me

My scum sends are Empking and Rosswilliam.

my second town pair would tentatively be ortolan and Abstract

My scum sends are Empking and Rosswilliam.

Ok, I still want to vig Ross.

---------------------------

Dr. P gave more info about his PM than Lowell ever did, but you're casting doubt on a paraphrase because you want a threat to your mafia gone.

Whatever you say, Einstein.

[SlySly]

I agree on Empking being scum...anyone who disagrees is scum really comes across as scummy to me

More blatant misrepresentation!!!

As for the choices made,

I agree on Empking being scum. His being adamant that we are going with Plan 2, no more discussion, anyone who disagrees is scum really comes across as scummy to me,

as does his OMGUS reaction to leaves and Moratorium. Looking at Percys last plancount, he had it 11-5 for Plan 2, but he put Ortolan in the wrong column (I don't like this clear misrepresentation) and since Leaves and Moratorium have hopped off the 6 townie bandwagon their votes are clearly not on Plan 2, so it's more like 8-6, definitely not decided. I don't know why people are suspecting Narsis, in fact if we were going with the six townie plan (which we shouldn't) I would probably send him. Percy is a better choice to go with Empking if we're sending two scum (which we should)

I didn't misrepresent anything. I made it obvious with the ... that it wasn't the full post. I see other players do this all the time, and I have seen other players in this game do the same thing and you didn't get bent out of shape about it when it wasn't someone exposing you.

Yeah, I've been wrong.

And you continue to be.

That's because my PM ... have a list of who is in the mafia ... unlike yours. So when somebody acts like a moron, I assume they aren't on our side. ... Dr. Pepper ... perfectly ... scummy.

Fixed.

This is an example of what you are trying to accuse me of. The other times I have used the ... I didn't change the basic meaning of anything.

[SlySly]

Yes, you completely changed the meaning of several things with your usage of ... . You changed my statement on what I said Empking was doing that made him scummy, into a statement saying that people who disagreed with me are scummy.

No, I was pointing out where you have been wrong. You were wrong saying Empking was scum and you were wrong saying those that disagreed with you, whether it be about his stance or his scumminess (doesn't matter), were wrong.

His being adamant that we are going with Plan 2, no more discussion, anyone who disagrees is scum really comes across as scummy to me, as does his OMGUS reaction to leaves and Moratorium.

This part is grammatically incorrect anyway, that is why I only took the part that reinforced your wrongness.

[SlySly]

I didn't say anything about people who disagreed with me.

Yes, you did...

His being adamant that we are going with Plan 2, no more discussion,

anyone who disagrees is scum really comes across as scummy to me,

as does his OMGUS reaction to leaves and Moratorium.

The problem is that your inability to use English makes impossible to interpret what you actually meant.

[SlySly]

EBWOP:

The problem is that your inability to use English makes it impossible to interpret what you actually meant.

[SlySly]

No, what is clear is that you are an idiot who has been wrong about everything in this game that you have been convinced you were right about.

[SlySly]

If the town wants powers, the town best start listening to me because the other suggestions out there at this point will leave the town powerless again.

[SlySly]

So, assuming nothing goes wrong (:P)

DGB and Percy kill each other
SlySly gets vigged
zachattack and I no/no
Moratorium and zwet (pending re-read) no/no

Scum/Town
Town dead
Scum/Scum
Scum/Town

[SlySly]

In a game of 12, usually 3.

This game of 25 could easily have 6.

[SlySly]

Maybe more.

[SlySly]

I could be wrong about Mora, considering his temper tantrum.

[SlySly]

I said I could be wrong about Mora. He seemed convinced I broke the game, that makes me assume my win condition matched his before his throwing a tantrum and quitting. That would make 6, plus DP the SK. Not out of the realm of possibility at all.

[SlySly]

Now all townies have to ask themselves, was Sly really clever enough to paraphrase the win condition from post 3, or did he actually paraphrase his own almost getting modkilled?

The odds lean in favor of...

You decide.

[SlySly]

Sly was Clever / Sly lucky there was a post 3 count.

zach - clever

[SlySly]

Sly was Clever / Sly lucky there was a post 3 count.

zach - clever
jakep - clever

[SlySly]

I'm not, it is one or the other. Your vote landed closer to the left side, damn liberal!!!

[SlySly]

Why don't you start by practicing what you preach, Mora?

[SlySly]

I love how everyone is so willing to maximize the town deaths. It's almost humorous.

[SlySly]

You're just evil...Only Slysly didn't.

I even looked, forgive me. I think I was looking at the end of posts and not at the beginning. My bad. Mora wants ortolan sent as town, noted.

I know that you know I am town, Mora. Do you think I should be sent to my death tonight?

[SlySly]

I know that you know I am town, Mora.

Why's that?

Because of your temper tantrum. You looked at your PM, saw the match, knew I was telling the truth and it pissed you off so bad that you quit. You know I didn't use post 3 as the foundation of my win condition paraphrase.

I think there is about as much chance that I used post 3 as there is the chance that your temper tantrum was an act. Zero.

[SlySly]

I think the chance of your temper tantrum being an act is greater than zero too, but I personally believe it wasn't.

My tiger repelling rock is doing a great job too.

[SlySly]

OMG, total misrepresentation!!! You never made a blank post.

It is obvious that sarcasm is never appreciated when I post it. Mora, if you flip scum, you should be awarded an Oscar for your 'i'm taking my ball and going home' episode following my paraphrase of my win condition.

[SlySly]

Here is the bottom line:

I was convinced of Mora being scummy until his tirade. Only him being town would explain his actions.

Mora was 100% convinced of my being town by my paraphrasing of my win condition.

------

WIFOM surrounds both instances.

Did Mora act like he was in kindergarten prove he wasn't scum or did he really quit because he felt Sly broke the game?

Did Sly paraphrase his own PM or the PM in post 3?

------

Though both are shrouded in WIFOM, I think the answer to both is quite clear.

[SlySly]

Me paraphrasing my win condition (8:28 - post 1542) had these notable reactions, times included end of each line:

1. Mora - announces Sly pretty much 100% cleared in his mind, calls for modkill of Sly, declares game broken, quits. (8:38)
2. Sly - responds with shock. points out lack of similar response to previous paraphrase by DP. (8:40)
3. Mora - makes official request for replacement. (8:40)
4. zach - wonders what happens. (8:43)
5. zach - wonders what happens again. (8:43)
6. EA - states belief of Sly and Mora's town alignments. (8:44)
7. Sly - pleads his case in series of posts with EA that he hasn't intentionally and knowingly broken rules. (8:45-8:52)
8. Sly - points out to zach what happened. (8:53)

11 minutes pass

9. zach - zach figures it out and retracts send so he won't look scummy continuing his stance that Sly should die. (9:04)

13 minutes pass

10. zach - becomes enfuriated by the confirmation of Sly's alignment, because of an earlier exchange of pleasantries with Sly, and attacks Sly. (9:17)

11. Sly - rubs zach's face in poo. (9:29 - 9:40)
12. jakep - points out there is a sample town PM in post 3, pretty much stamping out any reason for modkill of Sly. (9:41)

7 minutes pass

13. zach - not realizing what jakep had done, zach takes another shot at Sly because the poo is not feeling good on his face. (9:48)

14. EA - understands what jakep had done and expresses humor in the irony of the situation (9:51)
15. Sly - understands what jakep had done and expresses the extreme humor in the irony of the situation and rubs more poo in zach's face (9:52)

12 minutes pass

16. zach - after having it pointed out to him what jakep had done and not liking the poo Sly is rubbing his face in, knows he can recommit his previous stance on Sly without appearing scummy and resends his choices. (10:04)

17. Sly - realizes zach's scum slip and points it out. (10:09)
18. Sly - knowing the danger of modkill is over, requests for Mora to return (10:13)
19. Mod - confirms no reason to modkill Sly. (10:17)

Just think it through. Experiencing in real time would have been proof for you (entire episode, 8:28-10:17).

zach is either VI with blood thirst for Sly or scum, neither of which needs to be making decisions in the PD.

Sly, Mora and EA are town.

jakep - nulltell from this situation. Could be honest townie pointing something out or could be scum trying to help zach out of a tough spot.

[SlySly]

day vig is what the town needs. scum has kept them from us for long enough.

[SlySly]

Sly's getting scared.

Wrong!

What we need is to kill scum, whether it's by PD, dayvig, or Dr. Pepper is irrelevant.

Killing me will not accomplish this.

The sooner we eliminate manipulative players who are near certain scum the better, so I think a town pair for powers, and a townie killing Sly is the best way to do things.

Killing Sly = killing town

I'm happy with EA and Sly going in but before I send them, I want to know who English Argo suggests for the town pair.

2 town pairs gaining powers > 1 town pair gaining powers. This is something your little brain is having trouble comprehending.

[SlySly]

I also find the suggestion that Sly would say "no" ludicrous. If he's town then he thinks everyone's scum anyway.

I think Mora, zwet and EA are town. There is a slim chance zach is blood thirsty for Sly VI, but he's most likely scum. ortolan is scum.

[SlySly]

ortolan lead the charge to prevent town from getting its only possible dayvig so far.

weak case? maybe

fact? yes

[SlySly]

How did ortolan prevent the town from getting a dayvig sly?

First post of page 32. Lowell had been called out for picking the wrong choice (daycop over dayvig) so Lowell requested and was granted the ability to switch to dayvig. Lowell was on course to be a dayvig until ortolan steered him off course with this post...

I would rather get another investigation personally

sure there could be godfathers or whatever but it would be very risky for scum to lie when investigating their partner, and if they get a fake guilty on a townie then we kill them at earliest available opportunity. Other than that, the millers have claimed so that shouldn't be a problem.

Only after it was too late, did hp express his shock and dismay at losing the dayvig. Start reading at the first post of page 32 and you will see what I mean.

[SlySly]

Also, in general: Wasting someone to kill SlySly is stupid and I suspect anyone advocating this for being scum with him and wanting to go in with him and get vigs together.

Also, in general: Having Sly kill scum in PD is harmful to scum and since I am scum I will discredit anyone advocating wanting to go in with him and get vigs together because I don't want Sly and another townie killing scum tomorrow either.

[SlySly]

Have you read any of my other games?

[SlySly]

I'll send the 2 most townie appearing as well.

unsend

send:solorpg
send:killa7

Everyone else seems hellbent on sending scum in with town.

[SlySly]

You're ridiculous.

I've decided to play like everyone else now. Ignore reason and deny the obvious.

----------------

Please, don't post that scroll forcing grid again. It is meaningless and it IS a pain in the ass.

[SlySly]

How is killa7 most townie?

After having to fucking scroll over to quote due to a worthless grid containing information we all know anyway...

He is not supporting sending a townie in with scum.

[SlySly]

woe is you for having to move your mouse and hold a button

And everyone else in the game. Asswipe.

He is not supporting sending a townie in with scum.

Please show me the post where he states this.

Not Yet Voted:

...killa seven (2)

[SlySly]

He could very well think that, and just hasn't posted anything.

QFT

--------------------

You're also the only one to have complained about the grid.

Others...

... could very well think that, and just hasn't posted anything.

[SlySly]

So you think killa7 is townie

because

he hasn't posted anything?

I'll send the 2

most townie appearing

as well.

I think we should send a town/town pair before we deal with the cross-kill idea. After the send-count, the Orto/EA plan is the best bet we have, and I feel safe that they will follow the town's wishes, leaving us with useful powers tomorrow.

Send: Ortolan

Send: English Argo

another scum/town supporter. this town will never receive a dayvig.

unsend:solorpg

[SlySly]

So you think killa7

appears

the most townie because he is lurking?

No, he appears the most townie because he hasn't stated support for sending in a scum/town pair to 'gain' powers. As soon as he does, I will remove my send on him too.

[SlySly]

People who have expressed a belief that ortolan is town:

Zwets, DGB, zach, Mora, Percy, solorpg, Dr. Pepper, and more recently jakep ("much less scummy than you"), hp[leaves] ("seems like a pretty good idea to me")

Show me where in this game the majority has been right about a suspicion.

So your argument that ortolan is scum, what's that based on exactly? I'd go find it myself, but I recently injured my scrolling finger in a tragic boating accident. Please reiterate your position.

No. I have pointed it out twice. Schedule a doctor's appointment and get your finger fixed and you can scroll back and find it.

[SlySly]

No, he appears the most townie because he hasn't stated support for sending in a scum/town pair to 'gain' powers. As soon as he does, I will remove my send on him too.

So you expect him to, then?

Going on past experience, if he actually joins the game again, I expect him to jump on the popular wrong wagon and do the wrong thing because that is what the majority is supporting.

[SlySly]

Admit it, you voted for the two least talked about people just to inflate the sendcount list and cause conversation delays. Just admit it, it'll be therepeutic.

No, I merely voted to send the 2 who had not yet supported sending in a scum/town pair to gain powers. That list of players, other than myself, has now been reduced to 1.

[SlySly]

...Dr. Pepper vigs sly, no need to sacrifice townies...

oxymoron

[SlySly]

Jumbo Shrimp is an oxymoron. ortolan believing you are scum isn't an oxymoron. Slightly ironic is the word oxy

moron

, but I wouldn't want to stoop to such levels.

Isn't this an example of what zach called "attack the player"? Maybe I should throw a hissy fit and quit like better players in this game have done. I won't stoop so low as to point out who has committed such immature actions.

[SlySly]

It is, but in your case it's warranted.

In your case, it was more than warranted. Your track record of wrongness is spotless.

Anyways, I want to send one town pair, and ortolan/English Argo is as good a choice as any. I'll let English Argo weigh in before I send though.

unsend all

Why delay jumping on the wagon which you know you are going to join no matter what?

[SlySly]

Because I want to hear English Argo's thoughts before he is silenced for the day. Why stifle discussion?

EA nowhere near silencing yet.

I've been trying ever since I have been unsilenced to promote discussion. Everyone has decided to dismiss this promotion as scummy and chosen to ignore and thus not discuss the topics at hand.

Mora pretty much admitted he isn't reading the game by requesting a repeat of my stance against ortolan. That is scummy, but I don't think Mora's tantrum was an act, so I still think he is town.

[SlySly]

It's kind of hard to remember one post of content among the dozens of pointless, manipulative, contentless posts.

I know, that is why others seem to be forgetting your spotless record of being wrong.

[SlySly]

So "isn't reading the game" is pretty far-fetched, and just a lame duck smear.

Actually, it is right on.

I am, however, pretty tired of you.

That explains your lack of reading. Why listen to anything I have to say since you are tired of me?

Your chart is worthless. Just focus on my column and when my alignment is revealed, the worth of you chart will be confirmed. There is only 1 person in this game that is right about me, according to your chart.

[SlySly]

EBWOP: actually 2, including Percy

[SlySly]

especially as an easy way later in the game to go back and figure out who thought what about whom without having to slog through the entire thread (which is what I've had to do).

Slogging through the game is how you discover things and that is what this game is all about. Your chart is a short cut that leads people down the wrong idea about others alignments. Your chart has told me nothing that I didn't already know. If it told someone something that they didn't know, they aren't reading the game and taking notes or they are scum that don't bother keeping up with such info.

[SlySly]

Mora, did you go back and see ortolan steering Lowell away from the only chance we have had as town for a dayvig yet? If not, I suggest you go to page 32 and start from the top. Keep in mind, Lowell had been chastised for making the wrong choice (daycop) and he asked the mod and was granted the option to become a dayvig. He was on course to do so until ortolan knocked him off course.

[SlySly]

DP is anti town anyway you slice it.

[SlySly]

@zwet, here are a few reasons...

---------------

I am an Freelance Vigilante.

As far as I know Freelance Vigilante is my role title.

Positive about role, then not quite so sure.

---------------

I believe DGB is town and Percy is scum.

I think DGB is scum and Percy is fake claiming. There it is again for the record.

I think DGB is town and Percy is fakeclaiming.

I said a couple times that I believed DGB to be town. One time I did accidentally list both Percy and DGB as scum.

I move zwets to the top of my scum list for right now.

zwets, I believe your claim with regards to your role.

Flip-flop, flip-flop

--------------------

[I win when all non-townies are no longer with us.]

Doesn't match protown win condition.

I feel both the attempt at comparing PMs and the response to them to be null-tells at best and scum-tells at worst.

I bet you do now. If you feel so strongly this way, why did you offer part of your PM up in the first place? With your offering, doesn't that inherently put it up for comparison?

--------------------

Right now there isnt anyone I am confortable sending into prison to get powers aside from ortolan and I would rather not risk sending him in if possible.

I wouldn't mind seeing ortolan or zachattack go into prisoner's dilemna for the purpose of gaining powers of their choice.

I am comfortable with sending zachattack as townie, and maybe pairing him up with ortolan.

Supporting either scum/scum or scum/town pairings.

-----------

Lets try moving the discussion up a notch instead of spending the next two weeks going DGB is scum, no Percy in scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, no DGB is scum, no Percy is scum, and then going ZOMG we only have 24 hours to figure out what else to do tonight.

Extreme worthless input.

-------------

I find some of SlySly's arguements suspect, but not enough to label him scum yet. I will feel better informed after learning the alignments of both DGB and Percy.

At this time, I highly suspect SlySly of being scum.

I believe SlySly is scum...SlySly is becoming a rather large distraction.

I will go in with SlySly at this point...I will jump on the hand grenade to see his role revealed. I strongly suspect it will come up as scum.

Why did you never send DP/Sly? I did. Here comes the backtrack...

I still supoort SlySly getting cross killed by anyone.

So feel free to leave me out. If SlySly is out of prison, I will definitely target him tonight.

[SlySly]

I believe his claim.

I don't.