Prisoner's Dilemma Mafia II {Game Over!}

[Lowell]

/confirm

[Lowell]

I am a

miller

. Discuss.

send: freeko

send: narsis

[Lowell]

I agree with Vel on random voting and am put off by seraphim's use of the royal "we".

Second post of the game claim. Is that a record? Do I win something?

[Lowell]

1) I don't know what a death miller is. My PM does not lead me to believe I'm anything other than a regular old fashioned miller.

2) @Tuber, sorry you don't like my claiming. However, I agree with those who believe miller is a good thing to claim up front. It saves cops from having to investigating me, or worse, outing themselves after they do. I also claim mason day one, so just be happy we're not mason partners.

[Lowell]

1) I don't know what a death miller is. My PM does not lead me to believe I'm anything other than a regular old fashioned miller

Does your PM specifically state that you are Pro-Town?

Yes, it does.

[Lowell]

send:SlySly

send:Lowell

As far as I have seen (which is little), people who play Miller have a tendency to really,

really

want to claim Day One. I see the percentages of this being a scum gambit as low.

From what I've seen in the other game, there are ways for people to influence the prisoner responses against their will, so even if both want to say "No" it doesn't always work out that way. This is why I don't like the "send two pro-town players, have them both get powers" strategy, necessarily.

I don't mind giving it a try with Sly and I, assuming he's also what he says he is, since we're not exactly powerroles in any meaningful sense. But I'd much prefer to send scummy people. The chance that they end up dead far outweighs the harms of a scum with a vig kill or investigative role (in fact, the latter is just as useful in scum hands as in pro-town hands).

[Lowell]

"Voting" could not be more useless or confusing. Please stop.

[Lowell]

Also, I'm a little concerned everyone is so set on sending pro-town players to prison. From what I've seen in the other game those sent to prison have a better chance of ending up dead than those who don't.

[Lowell]

Just checking in. Don't have the time to read through the swamp.

So, the plan now is send slysly and I, and we vote "no", correct?

[Lowell]

I don't know about this; I still think Sly's behavior, ie the "Oh yes I'm a miller too. Indeed. Yes. Indeed." is a little sketch, but I'm willing to belay the feeling that I'm getting in my gut (probably my liver, but it might also be appendicitis) and

Send: Lowell

Send: SlySly

I believe sly's claim as I think multiple millers fits with a game like this, in which we'll have tons of investigative roles going around. If there weren't something to balance it out (multiple false-guilties and false innocents) the roles would be too powerful.

[Lowell]

On reread it really does look like a guy contemplating a counterclaim and not sure how to proceed. It all looks legit to me.

[Lowell]

unsend both, send slysly, send lowell

[Lowell]

Yay! Prison!

If I end up dead I'm haunting whoever's idea this was first. Just so you know.

[Lowell]

Okay I took cop instead of vig. I read someone suggested I should take cop and sly take vig.

Regardless, even if that's not right, daycop is a better option this early in the game. I'm willing to take suggestions on who I should investigate.

Shall we send sly and I to prison again tonight?

[Lowell]

FTR, I think the 3 folks in prison again were sent by scum. It's the 3 people they expected to have investigative roles, and were less worried about a dayvig than a daycop.

[Lowell]

I took my choice when I saw the PM. I assumed the thread hadn't been reopened. If folks are going to whine about this I can see if the mod can let me change, but I still think cop roles are more useful. We can always send folks to prison two at a time with the intent of killing each other (like you did yesterday).

@zach- my role isn't unverifiable. I'll investigate someone and get a result. Calling me scum for it doesn't make sense.

Incidentally, I'm leaning towards ross being scum. I think scum imprisoned all investigative roles, overruled emp's "yes" vote and are hoping the vig would be used on ross.

[Lowell]

Okay you guys seriously think I'm scum because I read the thread wrong and took the wrong role?

[Lowell]

I'm happy with investigating ross. I'd prefer to investigate someone else, however, and just send ross back to prison to kill him that way.

[Lowell]

Alright I've asked mod to change to vig if I can. People are making me sad calling me scum.

[Lowell]

@moratorium- I meant to say ross might NOT be scum, and scum are setting him up to be used for the vig.

[Lowell]

Mod said I could switch. I'm now a vig. Let's do this.

[Lowell]

Mod said I could switch. I'm now a vig. Let's do this.

What??

Having two cops works better because Percy's plan allows us to either clear two people or expose a scum. Having a single cop & vig combo means that whatever result that RossWilliams gets is subject to WIFOM.

So why would you switch? Your only claimed problem with the plan is that you would be the only killed if both Narsis and RossWilliams were innocent. So it sounds like you're more worried about surviving then helping town?

I'm strongly suspecting that you were never a daycop to begin with.

God I hate everyone. No, the problem was that people were taking my having the wrong role as a sign that I'm scum. I agree with you that cop is more valuable (esp early in the game) but I'm trying to bow to the will of the majority.

From my interactions with the mod (and the fact that there didn't seem to be a time limit for choosing the role) it sounds like the whole thing is relatively fluid. As in, until I send in specific requests to kill or investigate someone, I can choose whatever I want.

mod

can you confirm this?

[Lowell]

@moratorium- I meant to say ross might NOT be scum, and scum are setting him up to be used for the vig.

So if this is true, and you don't think I'm scum, why do you suggest doing this?

I'm happy with investigating ross. I'd prefer to investigate someone else, however, and just send ross back to prison to kill him that way.

I think ross is the most likely scum lead we have. What I'm saying is I can envision a case in which scum are trying to manipulate things to (a) keep all investigative roles down for the day, and (b) have us use a kill on an (innocent) ross.

My only support for this is that they left me OUT of prision (knowing I'd have a vig role) knowing that ross would get a lot of suspicion thrown his way. Part of me thinks scum want us to kill ross.

Of course, the equally likely scenario is that it is what it looks like, and scum are just trying to keep ross alive because he IS one of them.

[Lowell]

Narsis is fine w/ me. Who cares, really.

Can we talk about what happens if narsis is innocent? My vote would be to investigate ross, but I'm happy to be a lynch-happy town's plaything if we prefer.

[Lowell]

Back. So I'm investigating ross? I'll give one day for anyone to protest then I'll do it.

[Lowell]

I would send him in with sly if he's guilty. If he's innocent I would send Lowell in with Sly. In both circumstances I would want Sly to say yes 100%. I don't care what the person we send in says because I still think Sly is town, but I'm expecting that they'll say yes to take Sly down with them.

Wait.

If Ross is innocent you want to send ME-- a miller-- in with sly, who you believe to be innocent, and have us both kill ourselves? Instead of, say, sending in a KNOWN INNOCENT (narsis or ross, if the case may be) and having them get powers with sly?

And FTR, if Ross is scum we won't be able to "tell" him to do anything. We'll have to vig him. Why on earth would an outed scum agree to what amounts to suicide? He'll go in with whoever, choose Yes/0%, and either end up taking someone with him, or surviving again (equally likely) and get a power.

Everything about what zach says can be safely ignored completely.

[Lowell]

Ross is NOT GUILTY.

That makes Ross's investigation of narsis truthful as well.

I'd put either one of them in with someone we think is innocent (sly) and have them vote no again.

[Lowell]

Send: Narsis

Narsis with DGB.

RossWilliams with Plum.

Sly with Lowell.

I'm okay with this. With all players saying "no"?

[Lowell]

Sly says yes

That's still stupid.

[Lowell]

Not on Lowell. If he's telling the truth he's a miller. If he's lying he's scum. Either way he will come up scum. His play earlier in the day before we knew that the prisoners could change their abilities was very suspect. His miller claim could have come from seeing that we could potentially have tons of daycops running around, so he pre-empted getting investigated. He was the only 'pro-town' player who stayed out of jail today, depriving us of 3 potential abilities. I think he's mafia. And if I'm wrong, we confirm Narsis and Ross as town. I want Sly to kill him. Personally I would prefer if Lowell says no, allows himself to die, and gives us an extra investigate, so we have 5 abilities tomorrow, but I'm not counting on it.

zach is very town, but also very wrong. If you dont' believe me, why are you so certain about sly? Not so much sense-making here.

[Lowell]

send narsis

. He's town.

[Lowell]

send ross

. Town too.

[Lowell]

send lowell

You realize that by suggesting sly kills me you're giving him the perfect excuse to do so if he's scum, right?

FOS all idiots passive-aggressively wanting me dead

[Lowell]

Uh, ok, that was fun. Go town?