FL wrote: First, since when does OMGUS NOT stand for Oh My God U Suck? I am not redefining it. You are. Further, this IS a semantic debate. it is manifestly obvious why I am voting DGB. I don't think the reasons are so manifestly obvious, since she voted him BEFORE he started in with the whole she lied thing (I think?)
Firstly, it is not at all manifestly clear why you are voting DGB; not giving reasons was not scummy in the context, and being self-assured is by no means a scumtell and, for DGB, is perfectly in character.
As for OMGUS, tt does stand for "Oh My God yoU Suck", but that's neither here nor there. You accused DGB of "OMGUS" but, by the tenor of your argument, it is unclear what the hell you are meaning by "OMGUS". If you meant a generic "She voted somebody voting her", then that's a complete non-scumtell and you shouldn't have even said anything (buttressing my point about it being an emotional label). You couldn't have meant OMGUS in its proper sense, and here the wiki is my friend:
wiki wrote:
OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
As I have already said, though, this definition has no operation in relation to what DGB said.
As for your point about her reasons not being manifest, that's absolute crap. Thankyou kindly for raising it, though, because you have drawn my attention to another deception of your cherry-pick quoting.
You quoted DGB as saying:
FL wrote:
BM is scum, he must die. I don't know what he's up to, I don't know what impression he's trying to give, but he's a lying scumbag. This much I know.
I'm all for SensFan to die. But with this post, BM has shown me beyond the shadow of a doubt that he can only be scum.
unvote, vote: BattleMage
Fine. That
is
what she said. But have a look at the entire post:
DrippingGoofball wrote:Battle Mage wrote:Maybe i'd be more lenient towards you if you hadn't lied about your whereabouts on the day of Guardian's death.
BM is scum, he must die. I don't know what he's up to, I don't know what impression he's trying to give, but he's a lying scumbag. This much I know.
I'm all for SensFan to die. But with this post, BM has shown me beyond the shadow of a doubt that he can only be scum.
unvote, vote: BattleMage
So, clearly, she voted him after he started the whole "she lied" thing.
More fundamentally, though, the bit you omitted was the part by BM which showed, if it wasn't obvious just from the context, that she was voting him for a crappy accusation and not on the spurious grounds that you have raised.
Vote: forbiddanlight
FL wrote:
I grant this, mostly because I got jumbled. I still think that BM was a planned mislynch.
You probably didn't mean "scapegoat"; it certainly makes no sense. But, that's really not the point. It's that you felt the need to ratchet things up by incorporating such a word. Saying BM is a "planned mislynch" is still an unfalsifiable assertion.
FL wrote:vollkan wrote:
Well, no, actually you haven't. The only points you initially raised on DGB was the (wrong) OMGUS point, and the (context-ignorant) point about her not having explanations. You then later added a point about her seeming "too assured" (which is really just DGB's style of writing)
Then you haven't read my posts. And I have no need to debate you if you won't do that.
Ctrl+F DGB, viewing you in isolation.
FL wrote:DGB wrote:
vote: Korts for failure to claim. Scum hates having to claim.
I mostly agree, assumably another D1 event?
Nothing scummy here.
FL wrote: DGB wrote:
We should get 2 to 3 daykills per day. One from the compulsive vig, and another from the mafia - and perhaps one from the SK, should there be one.
You do understand the concept of "COULD be" in the game, right?
She's misguided about the role distribution. Meh.
FL wrote:DGB wrote:
Actually... Guardian was most likely a scum kill. So that the vig kill was foiled. Ah well. Forget what I said about the doctor. The dummy probably protected a scumbag.
You also forget the possibility of a mafia doc or mafia roleblocker. Both potential roles.
But, either way, how does speculating about killing roles help us? Beginning to get an IIoA vibe.
Again, wrong on roles. Not scummy.
FL wrote:
rofl's and DGB's day 2 posts before this are all rather IIoA and somewhat scummy.
Okay, so you do find this scummy. In which case, what is "IIoA"?
FL wrote:
DGB wrote:
BM is scum, he must die. I don't know what he's up to, I don't know what impression he's trying to give, but he's a lying scumbag. This much I know.
I'm all for SensFan to die. But with this post, BM has shown me beyond the shadow of a doubt that he can only be scum.
unvote, vote: BattleMage
Blatent OMGUS anyone?
No.
FL wrote:DGB wrote:
It's a most excellent wagon, regardless. BM is up to no good. He's not working for the town.
My future sight says that you were wrong. Care to explain?
Nothing scummy pointed to. The mere fact that BM was town is not a scumtell for DGB.
FL wrote: Well...that catches me up. I think I probably missed a lot in D1, and if anyone would like to breif me, it'd be happy making. Anyway...I think a Vote DGB is appropriate here. No matter how weird her meta is, the way she handled the BM wagon was really scummy in my eyes. She gets a slight reprieve for BM being a dumbass, but you didn't do much better. At least he had (very thinly justified) reasons. Also think Yos 2 should be looked at closer, especially if DGB flips scum.
The only evidence you point to here is the lack of reasons, which is crap anyway because the reasons were implicit.
FL wrote:Korts wrote:
Also, OMGUS is such a fictive scumtell. It doesn't exist in practice.
As far as DGB's vote goes, it certainly exists.
No.
BM wrote:
OMGUS isnt a scumtell, full stop. Not when so many stupid townies fall into the trap. I fail to see the case on me however, and feel you fall into 1 of the above categories.
Most votes for attackers aren't OMGUS. They actually have some weak case. DGB is just...wow, and using force of will to push a lynch rather than logic feels scummy.
[/quote]
And she did have a case, you just ignored it because it wasn't expressly stated.
FL wrote:
BM wrote:
GOOD QUESTION. Razz
I looked into people's activity on site at the time of guardians death. Not everyone, just a few people i thought were scummy, and/or had motives for wanting him dead. DGB had not posted on site within the time frame available for the kill (in excess of 3 hours i think). When i asked her where she was, in an attempt to give her an opportunity to confirm herself, she claimed that she'd been at a computer-something which i find very unlikely given her normal posting rate when she has computer access. Motive for the lie? i'm not sure. But chronic lying when scum isnt uncommon.
BM
Of all the scumtells DGB dropped in attacking you...you clue in on THIS? Seriously BM, DGB now looks better since you were such a ridiculous arse here.
"Of all the scumtells". So far you've only named OMGUS, and you didn't even do that properly.
FL wrote:BM wrote:
Kills are made in real time. Therefore we should be able to get some leads from who is online when the kill is submitted. Notice that you criticise my reasoning for voting DGB, perhaps justly, but then dont criticise her for having no reasoning whatsoever. Nice...
I actually agree with this. It makes Yos look a little worse, assuming DGB scum. And the reverse applies too.
Nothing's added to your case here.
FL wrote:DGB wrote:
I'd like to lynch vollkan today. All the while he stays on the sidelines. He's very off.
You have a bit of a point there. I don't recall many stances from him at all.
Ironic that despite finding crappy reasons for suspecting DGB, you still play along with crappy reasoning of DGB herself.
FL wrote:vollkan wrote:
No, it isn't OMGUS. OMGUS is the fallacy of arguing along the lines of "I know I am town. Person X is attacking me. Since Person X is attacking me, who I know to be town, Person X must be scum". BM had presented incredibly dodgy attacks on DGB and, whilst her reasoning is ambiguous (as we've come to expect <grumble>), it isn't an OMGUS.
Her reasoning doesn't exist. And no, I see OMGUS as what it is. You are attacking me. Oh My God U Suck, I'm going to vote you. Your definition of OMGUS is...not.
See my remarks at the top.
FL wrote:
Well, whether I accept your argument that OMGUS exists or not is a rather moot point, is it not? How does this help us hunt scum?
The way DGB handled BM was scummy, whether you call it OMGUS or not.
"was scummy". HOW?! So far you've only said it was OMGUS.
FL wrote:voll wrote:
How was it scummy? The only point you made was that DGB committed "OMGUS", a claim which Korts and I have shown to be patently false.
I never accepted it was false. And if you actually read my posts, you'd know my claim went beyond her committing OMGUS. I said she didn't provide reasoning for her BM vote and seemed far too assured of his scumness. Also, Yos has been defending her like mad, as well as the fact BM's entire suspicion list jumped on him the minute a bandwagon was viable. She was on it, and I feel the most scum vibes from her.
Reasoning was implicit and you never said the self-assured thing, which wouldn't be scummy even if she was.
The other thing interesting here is that you raise Yos defending her as relevant. By that stage, Yos hadn't flipped as scum and you had barely anything to say about Yos that wasn't relational to DGB. Suggests the likelihood of you trying to set DGB up.
And it's hypocrisy for you to accuse DGB of lacking reasons when you talk about "scum vibes", which is basically a euphemism for "gut".
And then we get up to where we are now, so you didn't have other reasons. You had:
1) OMGUS
2) Assured
3) No reasons
All of which are crap.
Elmo wrote:
Curious about Vollkan's relatively early move against Yos in 411/423. He seems like the type to be afflicted by Stoofer's Syndrome... it's kind of odd, in that I think a bunch of people had the typical YosScum reaction of thinking it was weird but not really going after him for it; he's the only one who pressed him early in the wake of Des. Maybe there's just something specific he looked for, I don't know, but it seems out-of-place. I'm not at all wild about accusations based purely on bussing, especially since I think it's entirely possible he would have found roughly the same stance as town. But it is an oddity, and if you told me for sure that exactly one person was actively bussing Yos, he'd probably be my pick. Which is annoying, because it's the kind of environment you'd figure scum'd be bus-happy, and I think (at least from my perspective) the degree to which he was going down in flames in his debate with Des would necessitate some bussing. I feel if he is scum, though, there should be more than that independantly, which does not spring to mind. Eh.
Well, 411 explains my initial move to focus on Yos. I'd missed the fact that Yos's vote had left CKD at L-1. His answer was not based on gut, which then prompted me to go back and take a closer look, with it flowing from there (given his poor explanation). I can see how you'd get the impression of bussing, because of the suddenness of my change in view, but that's really just a combination of Des pointing out the (what should have been) obvious and Yos giving a horrible explanation for his vote.
Elmo wrote:
CKD makes an interesting point that in 338, Vollkan basically agrees with his stance. But his random (?) vote is still on CKD, at 5/8 to lynch. I missed why Why?
My vote on CKD was not a random vote. I was voting CKD for the hypocrisy of accusing one person of "reaching" when allowing himself to do the same thing under the auspices of "early game scumhunting".
I don't think that the fact that I agreed with one stance of CKD's should in any way void that.
Elmo wrote:
Does anyone here have a meta on Vollkan?
In respect of anything specifically?
Korts wrote:
They weren't confirmed townies. I explicitly expressed suspicion on them. The cases wouldn't have stuck; you yourself say that they weren't even contenders for a lynch. I trust my own judgement. A 1 for 2 trade is pretty fair IMO.
It's not really a "trade" though...but anyway, the kills you claim are consistent with your stated positions
DrippingGoofball wrote:OH, I only just noticed that Yos is now dead, was a mafiate, and was a Godfather.
I laid back from the game for a while because I felt I was interfering with the scum's natural flow of bus'ing. And I had noticed that some players were bus'ing Yos, but Yos did not seem scummy to me.
Chief Yos bus'er: vollkan.
unvote, vote: vollkan
How do you distinguish bussing from genuine attacking?