Gnosia Game over!

[Ranger]

Disclaimer: is page 1. :P

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Elmo teH AzN, Klick, Yume, FageGod, Autere, Not Known 15, narrow parking}
{Marashu}
{Enchant}

[Ranger]

I would like to make a proposal to the Gnosia team in their help in eradicating the Bug threat together.
I figure that eliminating the Bug first would raise both of our team's winning chances.

Hunting for an independent 3p D1 is an incredibly bad idea.
The scum can't kill the Bug, but our Cop can.
While we won't know when the cop has died, we know they're alive D1 minimum.

Circa D3 is bug hunt time:
Worst case scenario, that's the day before lylo (9 alive, 3 scum);
Best case scenario, that's the day with only 1 scum (scum limmed D1+2).

[Ranger]

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Elmo teH AzN, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}
(FG null still, can’t read. Marashu's 22 feels scummy.)

[Ranger]

State your human.

A human containing a voice and vote. ;)

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15, narrow parking}
{Elmo teH AzN}
{Marashu, Enchant}

[Ranger]

no neutral tier ?

The middle bloc???

{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Autere, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Marashu, Enchant}

[Ranger]

I think it'd be useful if someone tracked votes/FoS. Really would like to see others play along even if we don't have an official one

An ability has been activated!

For this dayphase only we will have a standard voting phase and skip freezing phase.
Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!

Ask and ye shall receive?

[Ranger]

{Autere}
{Roden, JunkoChan, shiki}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, FakeGod, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, narrow parking}
{Enchant}
{Marashu}

P2 bottom.

VOTE: Marashu

[Ranger]

{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki}
{Roden}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume, Not Known 15}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{Enchant, narrow parking}
{Marashu}
(Oops too many south of null, will try to fix.)

[Ranger]

(Oops too many south of null, will try to fix.)

Oh I forgot, technically five scum so five south of null isn't too many. :P
(That said, still need the reads fixed; they don't feel right.)

[Ranger]

my ability is activated by DMing the mod

So's mine!

Let's fire ability which basically disables anonymous voting in FIRST DAY.

And enables a normal voting phase for the first day phase?

First days are the most important. RVS isn't the same if you can't vote.

I disagreed at first, but now that I think about it, I'm more inclined to agree here. Today's the only day that will require majority instead of plurality, and maf are the only ones who know how many maf are left, so sneaking in a late-game block vote even when you don't have majority could be huge.

This logic has an obvious hole:
"I think it's a mafia ability because it was used D1, since scum can make a bloc on later days using the default mechanic". If a mafia ability, mafia just...don't use it? Keep the default mechanic?

Plus, town wouldn't know when mafia would attempt a votebloc. Especially in a flipless game. Big difference between 3 and 1 scum alive D3. How's town know?

I can see this too, I'm willing to vote there, Enchant is a vibe vote

This me, with my Marashu/Enchant/FG reads.
Obviously, they're not

partnered

, but I individually get bad vibes from each.

[Ranger]

But then it begs the question would it be used for later in the day all said votes would be revealed. So I'm not missing anything

Don't think it works that way. Pretty sure anon votes would've reset. It specifies a

skipped

freeze phase. Freeze = anon voting phase, so skipping = votes within skipped.

[Ranger]

I am the Engineer!

I believe it.

Not really. I didn't want to claim, because characters could had roleblockers.

I don't believe this!

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki}
{Roden}
{Scoliosis, Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

Vote's not on Enchant because I'm not sure if it's better to leave the claim alive in spite of my disbelief.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki}
{Roden, Jessica Rabbit}
{Scoliosis, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

[Ranger]

there is no middle bloc!

???

surely he could have if he didn't do it on his 4th post

The day's mechanic changed. Would your plans remain identical before/after a change?

NK15 on purpose had almost zero of interaction with other people (just vague posts), so it's clearly, he is pawn to be sacrificed to reveal me.

I don't believe this is a real Enchant-town post.

Plus, NK15's entrance has a cop's mindset.

[Ranger]

Can we talk about the differences in our reads lists a little bit?

If I believed your reasons were genuine, I would. I don't, sorry.

160 is not a real cop, I've the exact opposite read on it as you and your take feels faked.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere}
{JunkoChan, shiki, Jessica Rabbit}
{Roden}
{Scoliosis, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

[Ranger]

was enchant talking about not looking for the bug supposed to be a smokescreen then?

Imo, 27+30+31 does spew Enchant as the fake, agreed.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere, shiki}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit}
{Roden}
{Scoliosis, Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

[Ranger]

why would a town player fake a cop claim?

They wouldn't, because the real cop would counterclaim and town would be thrown into a shitshow.

This is also why I trust NK15. Scum if claiming cop know real cop counterclaims. In a follow-the-cop game, this forces a 1v1 they're likely to lose.

Meanwhile, scum

counterclaiming

cop know the danger of follow-the-cop. I realize you can argue vice-versa, but this version's more likely imo.

[Ranger]

VOTE: JunkoChan
She posts a lot and says a lot of things that look vaguely helpful but I don't think any of them are town things.

I'm in a weird spot: Klick's competent, so I'd expect a town-him to have good reads.
He looks vaguely town, but his reads largely oppose mine.

Honestly not sure which of {Klick is scum, I am wrong, Klick's got a bad start} is most likely rn.

[Ranger]

Meanwhile, scum counterclaiming cop know the danger of follow-the-cop. I realize you can argue vice-versa, but this version's more likely imo.

This isn't true.

Stats disagree with you. Scum counterclaiming is statistically speaking far more likely than town counterclaiming. Therefore, by theory, scum CCing is more likely.

That, aside from play. I believe NK15's play as town. I don't believe Enchant's.

Why is Scoliosis center null in your reads?

Because he's null still.
I don't believe his takes are sincere; I'm ambivalent if it's scum or insincere-town.

I might be leaning town, but I don't feel engaging Scoliosis on all reads would be productive.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Autere, shiki}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit, Roden}
{Scoliosis}
{Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

[Ranger]

This feels like a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Kinda?
It's explicitly stating an undefined read on Klick (which counts as 'absolutely nothing'), and giving the reasons

why

the read isn't defined.

Ranger's sorting doesn't seem very natural and I think Elmo could be placed here for distancing.

Try voting Elmo and see what I do. ;)

[Ranger]

Not only that, I don't have access to the data you claim to have, so I can't even verify if the statistics you claim to be working from actually exist.

Thousands of games on this site across all time?

In the scope of mafiascum, the initial claim is town by a considerable margin. To prove this would require viewing every game containing a CC, which is thousands of hours of work. To my knowledge, nobody's done so in MD, but were they to, their work would demonstrate I'm right.

Where's YOUR statistics to the contrary?

[Ranger]

What motive does town have in making insincere reads??

You've played with mastina; you should know. :P
She's not alone in forced reasons/faked confidence.
It's a valid tactic especially earlygame for generating a higher volume of valuable content.
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

[Ranger]

Not only that, I don't have access to the data you claim to have, so I can't even verify if the statistics you claim to be working from actually exist.

Thousands of games on this site across all time?

In the scope of mafiascum, the initial claim is town by a considerable margin.

To prove this would require viewing every game containing a CC, which is thousands of hours of work. To my knowledge, nobody's done so in MD

, but were they to, their work would demonstrate I'm right.

Where's YOUR statistics to the contrary?

I'm not doing that amount of work unnecessarily.
Show me YOUR data.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden, shiki}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit, Autere}
{Scoliosis}
{Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

[Ranger]

I've got simple thoughts about it. Enchant looks town so NK15 is not. He could be traitor/groupscum/flyingspaghettimonster and it would all be the same to me

This is me, but the exact opposite.
NK15 looks town; Enchant looks scum. That simple.

[Ranger]

I have used it already...

I don't believe you.

There’s an easy way to test that; do what he says to for the role to trigger.

If the skill wasn’t used, he's shown a liar; if it was, your belief is proven wrong. Should be win-win, yes?

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden, shiki, Autere}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit, Scoliosis}
{Klick, Yume}
{Elmo teH AzN, FakeGod}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu}
--
{Enchant}

[Ranger]

Page 9 I'm that behind I'll read later something about this game does feel really odd though. Especially the ccs

I'm sorry, you sound really scummy, can you post some reads?

This is normal for me. And I was using that as a place holder for where I left off.

You made no commentary at all about pages 1-9 despite reading them?

[Ranger]

I hate the decreasing number of brackets (7 brackets in 317 and 6 brackets in 320) between your posts here in addition to the fact you posted a reads list twice within 6 minutes.

Would you prefer I fake having not had a shift in reads?

None of my reads are strong this early; their separation is by a thin margin, and my thoughts on past content rapidly changes.

I can explain any changes if asked.

think posting a reads list multiple times like that is lamist

It may have been 6 years since my last game, but the thing which gave me my title hasn't changed. Perhaps you should try checking my past games and see what they tell you. ;)

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{Autere, Scoliosis}
{shiki}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit}
{Klick, Yume}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}
--
{Enchant}

This one needs clarification; it's both FG/Elmo moving down and Marashu moving up (stale reads).

[Ranger]

You do these lists like they are going to mean something later when in reality it just shows people how much buttering up is needed to you.

My readslists are for me, not others.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{Autere, Scoliosis}
{shiki}
{JunkoChan, Jessica Rabbit}
{Klick}
{Freedom}
{narrow parking, Enchant}
{Marashu, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

I feel like people often get caught up in how

easy

something is to fake to the neglect of considering how likely a scum is to

choose

to fake something
I think there's a ton of scumhunting potential in figuring out what kind of people players are, how they're likely to make decisions, especially because lots of people have a much narrower range of behaviour than is usually expected when playing Mafia

I agree with this principle.

I use it and my reads here are products of it.
{Roden}
{Autere, Scoliosis, shiki}
{JunkoChan}
{Jessica Rabbit}
{Klick}
{Freedom}
{narrow parking, Enchant}
{Marashu, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

Ok. My ability was activated.... and although it isn't strictly one-shot it is de-facto. What my ability does is to inform Gnosia about their chances to get caught in a lie...
which means that the Gnosia have the information that my ability is real and the rest of the players has not. What my ability does NOT do is to actually detect lies. That's probably someone else. Which means it's mainly a TMI trap.

Town and traitor must true-claim to my ability - Bug and groupscum can lie.

Obviously, these roles synergize well. Sadly, character powers aren't alignment-indicative.

FG's usage was protown, but I'm unconvinced it makes him town. I lean the opposite, actually.

Not everyone is capable of preventing themselves from making a terrible entrance as scum.

Agreed.

{Roden}
{Autere, shiki, JunkoChan}
{Scoliosis}
{Jessica Rabbit}
{Klick}
{Freedom}
{narrow parking, Enchant}
{Marashu, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

For clarity:

State your human.

I am human.

I am town.

I have a Logical voice and a Vote.

(I'm also low-Stealth.)

[Ranger]

I think Ranger has it backwards.

Apparently not!

[Ranger]

question also open to others i suppose

I think it's +town, but weakly so.

Similarly, Freedom's entrance +scum, but weakly so.

[Ranger]

ranger basically claiming vanilla town?

For clarity, that was a character breadcrumb.
I shouldn't elaborate further, obviously.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{Autere, shiki, JunkoChan}
{Scoliosis}
{Jessica Rabbit, Klick}
{Freedom}
{narrow parking, Enchant}
{Marashu, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

Also, 474 is pretty damn ai.

Human

Agreed.

Looks like scum on scum

Then join me on Elmo. ;)

[Ranger]

I'm slowly realizing that this turned out to be a role madness game in disguise, and I think that's something you need to keep in mind here.

Role madness where we got to choose what role we got, and that role is nai because it's tied to the character, not the alignment.

ranger good investigation target because of claim

Ranger bad investigation, because I don't wanna be nightkilled as conftown and should be town on other metrics.

Would prefer {Enchant, FG, Elmo, Marashu, narrow parking} invest pool.

[Ranger]

Why is NK15 above everybody?

Conftown via claim.

[Ranger]

how can u possibly take enchant out of conf scum after that reveal?

Enchant was confscum via counterclaiming the town-NK15. His retraction demoted him from confscum to scumread.

I think Ranger is town who is townreading scum.

I think Ranger is town who is townreading scum.

I like this take while feeling agnostic about my own Ranger read

Please specify: which townreads?

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{Autere, shiki, JunkoChan}
{Scoliosis}
{Jessica Rabbit, Klick}

NK15 is coftown. To Klick, {Jessica Rabbit, Klick} should be both town. To Scoliosis, {Scoliosis} should be town.

Please elaborate. My townreads are fluid enough where if you make your case, you'll likely sway me. Which ones do you think are wrong?

[Ranger]

A I reading wrong or the only person who thought nk15 was the real cop was Ranger?

I wasn't alone; there were 2-3 others. However, 1-2 of them changed their mind.

Engineer best role we have. We not spreading protections on anyone else. End of discussion.

Agreed. Scum need to kill every non-scum invest target due to inability to kill Engineer. I'd actually recommend claiming only after an inno, so scum have split prio (can't target both inno and claim). Leaves open chance of scum claiming PR, but if we're truly worried, Engineer can invest claim.

[Ranger]

I think that Scol was probably talking about shiki as it seems to me that Scol was SRing her at that time.

That's fair enough, albeit that scumread feels like nonsense.

What's Klick's takes tho? And why? I want reasons for their belief I'm wrong; I can't be convinced without cases.

[Ranger]

Ranger, could you explain why you have Autere so high in your reads?

I liked their early effort and approach while game didn't have normal day. I agreed with their Marashu push. Getting mechs wrong mildly +town. Thoughts feel nuanced. I believe 272 as town. 388 feels sincere (and I agree).
474 +town.

Mostly, is gut.

[Ranger]

Ranger, why do SR FakeGod again?

Posts appear like competent scum rather than competent town. 21 performative; 136 insightful, but lacks a conclusion to the thought.
While his townread on NK15 was proven right, the strength feels fabricated. (Even I only had NK15 as town by gut.)
239/240 reasonable, but his choice to prove this was who he previously called the town in the pair rather than the scum.
Usage of role was town-appearing, but justification feels lackluster.

Avoided voting anyone until after Enchant retracted, where he voted Enchant. In spite of stating he believes Enchant is town, keeps his vote on Enchant. His justification's poor, as optimal elims are bug/groupscum who he states Enchant isn't.

His actions are largely disconnected from his words.

tl;dr: FakeGod

looks

town, but doesn't

feel

town.

[Ranger]

@Ranger, I've been meaning to ask. I know your frequent read lists is something you say you do for yourself, but is it something you're just doing this game or have you done it before?

It may have been 6 years since my last game, but the thing which gave me my title hasn't changed. Perhaps you should try checking my past games and see what they tell you. ;)

Readslists help me track thoughts and stay honest with myself, if kept up-to-date. (Thusfar, 516 holds as latest. Will update if changed.)

[Ranger]

FakeGod:

Since you seemed so focused on mech talk rather than scumhunting, he's a mech question for your power:

Town and traitor must true-claim to my ability - Bug and groupscum can lie.

What would happen if you targeted the Guardian Angel with this power?

[Ranger]

VOTE: Marashu

L-2

[Ranger]

Guardian Angel is allowed to lie as well.

I'm skeptical of this answer; MariaR clearly wasn't online to give it (had she been, the replacement would've started much sooner), which means FakeGod couldn't have gotten it then. Yet,

I worry that if we follow your plan and have the doctor claim, mafia does not cc and simply just shoots the doc tonight, leaving rest of the power roles vulnerable.

Sorry, make that Cop & Coroner.

If the Doctor claims and does not get CC'd, then the Guardian Angel protects them tonight.

I wasn't aware until now that you were talking about the Coroner, not the Doctor (Guardian Angel).

The role confusion here implies the soonest he could've asked about the GA in relation to his role was 239, when he used his role in 396. When did FG think to ask about the GA specifically?

VT, character is the unnamed Protag (specifically The Player). Ability is Self-Learning, which really just means I'm a universal character ability backup. It's for the first player who dies, so normally the first elim,

but if we go to deadline with a draw

, I'd inherit the skill of the first player to get NK'd instead

.

I'm equally skeptical of this. The Player wasn't listed as an option, and there's an issue with the claim:

Voting and Freezing:

1. During the voting phase you may PM me the name of the person you want frozen, you may change your vote as many times as you like before deadline is hit.
   
2. If you do not vote before the deadline it will be counted as a self-vote.
   
3. A player is frozen when the majority votes are for the same player.
   In the event of a tie you will revote between the given players.

The only way for there to not be an elim D1 is if the player who activated their ability for a normal day phase does so D1. They

did

, but Marashu's claim seems tailored to the current D1, not the D1 we would've had otherwise.

For full disclaimer, I don't really know why scum would lie in these ways, but I still feel my skepticism is worth pointing out.

[Ranger]

You're correct. I did not consult the mod about Guardian Angel interaction. It was already in my role PM.

Consider my skepticism doubled as your initial claim implies otherwise in the language used. Your language in relation to your role is inconsistent and your earlier stances and wording implied no knowledge about the GA, yet now you're claiming it was there all along.

[Ranger]

MOD MariaR:
Klick, Scoliosis, Elmo TeH AzN, Jessica Rabbit, and narrow parking are

all

in prod range.

With JunkoChan being replaced,

Six slots are absent from the game

;
That leaves only nine votes in play, when it takes eight to push an elimination through.

With it being impossible to get an elimination through without every player present voting

(which includes the scum),

can we have more than just a 24 hour extension for the deadline?

Either a freeze of it or an extension after each slot needing replacement has been filled?

[Ranger]

Scum are probably fine with the current game state.

Agreed, and I believe the lack of activity is quite likely suspect.

So, too, is the focus on mechtalk.

While mechanics aren’t unimportant, they are less important than scumhunting--a field most engaging in the mechtalk are egregiously neglecting. (FakeGod's the first to come to mind, but far from the only one.)

There's been precious little in the way of scumhunting, and the factors behind this (mechanics talk + inactivity) are directly suspect imo.

[Ranger]

I can better lay out my suspicions later today, but I want it noted; this was our ONLY normal day phase. The players neglecting scumhunting actively in favor of mechtalk and/or inactivity, are directly being antitown. (That said, I see no reason to have a coroner claim given we have an un-CC'd Cop. I value the information from the role more than the conftown. So the coroner claims when they see fit prior to lylo, the cop checks them, then their results are confirmed.)

Which are two being antitown and which are scum, I'll try and figure out then.

[Ranger]

Ranger, I believe this game is unique in that the approaching the setup correctly will lead to a significant mechanical advantage for the town, and that mechanical discussion is likely quite contributory to town success. Quadruple town confirm start may present an insurmountable barrier for the scum team to overcome, as they are forced to choose between killing the growing number of clears and trying to hunt for the GA (not to mention that they won't get a confirmation on death due to flipless setup)

I recognize the value of mechtalk in this setup.
It still shouldn't replace scumhunting.

beeboy's lack of content upon replacing in,
Jessica Rabbit from here (with the sole exception of 674),
Elmo TeH AzN from here,
Your iso in its entirety with exception to 593, 597, 617, and 868 plus follow-through;
All are slots without any recent content.
narrow parking also qualifies.

I realize the dangers behind letting effort influence reads, but being honest, it

has

.
Significantly.
{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{shiki, JunkoChan}
{Scoliosis}
{Freedom}
{Jessica Rabbit, Klick, Enchant}
{beeboy}
{narrow parking}
{Marashu, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}
(Listed as Klick+Junko+Scoliosis because this readslist is made without account for replacements.)

[Ranger]

Actually,
{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{shiki, JunkoChan}
{Scoliosis}
{Freedom, Enchant}
{Jessica Rabbit, Klick}
{beeboy, Marashu}
{narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}
Closer to accurate.
Since the town line starts at Scoliosis, too few townreads rn. When I've processed the replacements, this will be better.
My Marashu read is still scum, but more weakly so. Not a bad vote, but I'd honestly prefer FG/Elmo and maybe narrow parking over him.

[Ranger]

If anyone can, please give a two second version of why each wagon exists. I don’t care if you support it or not, but that history would help.

Marashu: largely, gut; content has felt scum-indicative. NK15 is conftown and led wagon there. Others may have reasoning, but this is mine.

Elmo TeH AzN: Lack of content suspect; even when catching up, content provided was suspect. Scoliosis said bad reaction to Junk' Enchant for Elmo's game avoidance, Roden for Elmo giving nothing, probably more. I agree a player of Elmo's repertoire having a lackluster iso is suspect, even given V/LA.

[Ranger]

I think MathBlade is scum.

MathBlade can be hard to read but I believe the opposite; he feels town.

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{shiki, JunkoChan, MathBlade}
{Freedom, Enchant}
{Jessica Rabbit, Klick}
{beeboy, Marashu}
{narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}
I should note: I'm promoting {Freedom, Enchant} to north of null where last time they were at or south. I'm liking their more recent content.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{shiki, MathBlade}
{Freedom, Enchant}
{Jada}
{Jessica Rabbit, Klick}
{beeboy, Marashu}
{narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}
Jada ambivalent, but slight townlean.

[Ranger]

Shouldn’t I be hella sus :(

Your Marashu vote

may

be suspect, but while I see the scum motive behind it and the play prior, it feels less likely imo.

Sorry. <3

[Ranger]

{Roden}
{shiki, MathBlade}
{Herta}
{Freedom, Enchant}
{Jada, Jessica Rabbit}
{beeboy, Marashu}
{narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

Caught up now.

[Ranger]

So Jada’s now south of null?

More of an ambivalent null.

Isn’t Jada slot Junko and didn’t you have them preciously in your top tier? You also had Autere (beeboy) as well but I understood your initial Junko read more.

Reads are fluid: a slot's replacement being less town can undo all prior towncred. Especially on players I don't know the meta of.

beeboy's decision not to read a game of such short length and lack of content even after replacing in is suspect.
My Junko/Jada read has been the one most in flux the entire game, because I think different things at different times.

{Roden}
{shiki, MathBlade}
{Herta}
{Freedom, Enchant, Jessica Rabbit}
{Jada}
{beeboy, Marashu}
{narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

Say Ranger, how's the weather? Great day for a barbeque?

Opposite, actually. It's freezing cold. Could use hot cocoa tbh.

[Ranger]

there isn't always a vote phase during the day so it can't be that

This is a good observation but I believe MathBlade's ability is real regardless, and feel his usage is +town.

Going to have to resort. I don’t see that being a scum ability.

Character abilities are explicitly nai:

The Crew.

Along with a basic role card you'll be given a Crew member from the game Gnosia,

the character you get

is NAI

but each Crew member

comes with one skill

unique to them

. If you wish for a certain Crew member feel free to PM me your top three, if you do not care feel free to ignore!

Unique skills are explicitly tied to the

character

.
Since we got to

choose

our character, we effectively got to choose our skill, before alignments were assigned.

In short, abilities aren't any alignment.
The important part is their usage. I've laid out my reasons for thinking FG's usage was scum.

[Ranger]

Wait why do you wolf read my slot exactly?

Apparently because it's not town. :P

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden}
{shiki, MathBlade}
{Herta}
{Freedom, Enchant, Jessica Rabbit}
{Jada}
{beeboy, Professor Drapion, narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

Doesn’t look like this dudes reads changed that much.

Perhaps I'm not suited to judge, but I'm

fairly

certain my reads have progressed significantly and this is not an accurate portrayal of their progression.

Wait why do you wolf read my slot exactly?

Apparently because it's not town. :P

Apologies for the snark, it was an apt way to say the read remains with the replacement.

To express the sentiment more explicitly, Marashu felt like scum. I've passing familiarity with Marashu's townplay and this didn't seem like it. I've passing familiarity with your townplay and this doesn't seem like it. This isn't anything remotely strong, but it's the best I have.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15}
--
{Roden, shiki, MathBlade}
{Herta}
{Freedom, Enchant, Jessica Rabbit}
{Jada}
{beeboy, Professor Drapion, narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}
Comfortable with this.

[Ranger]

Look at LOST. Butterflies hard shielded a wolf (Gamma Emerald) cause they believed they were hard in their town meta.

I'm friends with Nancy and know

her

perspective.
Using that game, especially when she is not around to

give

said rebuke, will do you no favors--quite the opposite.

[Ranger]

Can't engage, but for clarity, I was under the impression Nancy was

not

in the game. I explicitly said "not around to defend her perspective"; i.e., not in the game.

I would prefer not to lim Jessica today, because I feel given proper time, I can accurately sort her without a Cop needed. She may or may not be scum, but I need more than 12 hours to tell; can we give me an extra day to try, please?

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN
I'd prefer this.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15, Herta}
--
{Roden, shiki, MathBlade}
{Freedom, Enchant, Jessica Rabbit}
{Jada}
{beeboy, Professor Drapion, narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}
Any of bottom tier, would vote.

[Ranger]

Initial thoughts (and for clarity, I need time to verify these, more than what's available today; Initial is exactly that--not final):
I don’t think Jessica is Gnosia.
It's POSSIBLE she's Traitor/Bug, but I feel her play doesn’t match groupscum.

If I'm right, that makes her a less optimal lim, as we should be aiming for Gnosia. I feel I can get her exact alignment pinned down, but this alone makes me disinclined to vote there.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15, Herta}
--
{Roden, shiki, MathBlade}
{Freedom, Enchant}
{Jada, Professor Drapion}
{Jessica Rabbit}
{beeboy, narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

Any of bottom tier, would vote.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15, Herta}
--
{Roden}
{shiki, MathBlade}
{Professor Drapion}
{Jessica Rabbit}
{Jada}
{Freedom, Enchant}
{beeboy, narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

Roden+Drapion+Jessica+Jada all promoted.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15, Herta}
--
{Roden, shiki, ProfessorDrapion}
{MathBlade, Jessica Rabbit}
{Jada, Enchant}
{Freedom}
{beeboy, narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

I've come to the conclusion Jessica Rabbit is likely town. Not not-Gnosia; likely town.

It's tentative. I'd prefer longer than 2 hours (our deadline for D1) to figure out for sure. But there are signs of town that I believe indicate not any form of scum.

[Ranger]

You know it recently occurred to me that Doctor is a thing here and they usually don’t wanna claim unless they have to.

The GA can't claim, but thankfully, scum won't know if/when they die. As such, they can't shoot the cop regardless.

With masons being able to clear each other and all other roles claimed, the correct move: ignore threats of eliminating a PR and focus on play.

By play, I believe Jessica town;
By play, I feel all of {beeboy, FakeGod, Elmo, narrow parking} are suspect.

[Ranger]

By play, I believe Jessica town;

wanna share with the class? there's a universe where i switch to elmo considering the deadline and momentum (or lack thereof) rn

I don't have the time.

Basically, Jessica has given reads under pressure, while being incredibly emotionally compromised. The "AtE" is nai by itself given the reason to be upset exists regardless of alignment, but her expressal of it looks town.

If I had more, I could explain this in greater detail, but we don't have that time.

[Ranger]

By play, I feel all of {beeboy, FakeGod, Elmo, narrow parking} are suspect.

Why beeboy again?

They don't seem to have much things that I remember.

You answered your own question.

beeboy has done nothing since replacing in. That in of itself is suspect.

[Ranger]

I have thoughts which I shall share after I hear from Herta and Professor Drapion specifically.

[Ranger]

could whoever made yesterday into a normal vote
please claim
please

What's the benefit?

I have thoughts which I shall share after I hear from Herta and Professor Drapion specifically.

This was based on me having forgotten Gnosia didn't have daytalk. I was confused by why we'd have a failed kill if Gnosia knew that Jessica was Gnosia. If they knew she couldn't be GA and they knew what her ability did, they should've known NK15 was protected by a GA as the GA was still alive.

But I'm assuming either they hit the bug, or they thought Jessica's ability would leave NK15 vulnerable.

I realize no daytalk = no communication, but I still wonder why the Jessica wagon went through. There were pushes against Drapion and especially Elmo; why Jessica over them? It warrants rereading carefully, to figure if town simply had an insurmountable majority, or if the Gnosia had reason to let Jessica die.

Can't do that rn, but if I forget, someone please remind me later.

[Ranger]

i kinda think mathblade possibly bug just from thinking about likely nightkill targets if the gnosia did target the bug but could have been a save so shrug

I agree with this as a definite plausibility, but:
-Even if true we should still focus on Gnosia today and MathBlade's certainly not Gnosia
-I still need to do my review.

Mental notes:
I maintain {shiki, Roden} town regardless; {Drapion, MathBlade} not Gnosia and not likely Traitor.
Beyond that, I'll need time to consider.

{Not Known 15, Herta}
{Enchant}
--
{Roden, Shiki}
{ProfessorDrapion, MathBlade}
(^semi-sorted)
(vcurrently unsorted)
{Jada}
{Freedom}
{beeboy, narrow parking, FakeGod, Elmo teH AzN}

[Ranger]

With that in mind, Freedom/FakeGod/Beeboy/Narrow/Jada are my PoE.

Mine as well, but I'll need review to sort for sure.

[Ranger]

That's a regrettable alt-slip from what I can only assume is Jada.

Unfortunately, I feel that does spew Jada as Gnosia.

VOTE: Jada

[Ranger]

the main one is that i would know in case i would like to use my ability on them

I see.
It was me.

State your human.

A human containing a voice and vote. ;)

Setsu

's character power is quite literally just called '

Vote

'. (No, seriously.)
I've other 'crumbs if need be, but should be obvious it was me. xD

What does my identity have to do with anything Ranger?

While alts can change many aspects of how a player plays, some traits remain regardless of account. I believe you'd be disinclined to bus, and your D1 play with Jessica Gnosia supports that.

[Ranger]

I think it'd be useful if someone tracked votes/FoS. Really would like to see others play along even if we don't have an official one

An ability has been activated!

For this dayphase only we will have a standard voting phase and skip freezing phase.
Please vote for who you want to be frozen using vote tolds aka VOTE: Maria bolded votes will not count!

Ask and ye shall receive?

But then it begs the question would it be used for later in the day all said votes would be revealed. So I'm not missing anything

Don't think it works that way. Pretty sure anon votes would've reset. It specifies a

skipped

freeze phase. Freeze = anon voting phase, so skipping = votes within skipped.

my ability is activated by DMing the mod

So's mine!

Let's fire ability which basically disables anonymous voting in FIRST DAY.

And enables a normal voting phase for the first day phase?

First days are the most important. RVS isn't the same if you can't vote.

For clarity:

State your human.

I am human.

I am town.

I have a Logical voice and a Vote.

(I'm also low-Stealth.)

Setsu's mentioned as logic-leaning (idk what that means), and easily targeted due to low stealth (idk what that means). Vote, the 1x character ability, turns the phase into a normal day phase with +2 days.

[Ranger]

Can we all agree Elmo replacement town?

No, not necessarily, not yet at least. Being a counterwagon to flipped scum doesn't

automatically

make a slot town.

I'll let you know

after

I review the way events unfolded. Only after I rule out SvS will the Elmo slot be cleared of being Gnosia.

(For clarity, I'm not arguing we

had

SvS, I'm simply not blindly ruling it out. I'll review shortly to see.)

[Ranger]

I shouldn't have subbed in but host begged me
So I won't be back reading probably

You are the second slot to have taken this stance.

It remains no less suspect than the first, given the short length of the game.
(And this would be why I'm not blindly clearing the slot.)

[Ranger]

VC 1.6

Marashu (4): Enchant, Ranger, Not Known 15, MathBlade
MathBlade (2): Jada, FakeGod
Elmo TeH AzN (1): Roden
narrow parking (1): Marashu
Enchant (1): narrow parking
Not Known 15 (1): beeboy
Not voting: (5) Jessica Rabbit, Elmo TeH AzN, Freedom, MathBlade, shiki, Herta

VC 1.FINAL

Jessica Rabbit (8): Not Known 15, FakeGod, Herta, MathBlade, Enchant, shiki, narrow parking, Roden
Elmo TeH AzN (4): Jada, Ranger, ProfessorDrapion, Jessica Rabbit
Not Known 15 (1): beeboy
Not voting (2): Elmo TeH AzN, Freedom

This is skipping the events between the two currently as I wish to manually investigate (and not rely on VCs alone to tell a story), but it's a useful tool for demonstrating the contrast from where we began, and where we ended. From zero Jessica votes to 8.

ON WAGON:
I believe {NK15, Herta, Enchant, shiki, Roden} to all be town regardless.
I believe {Mathblade} isn't Gnosia.
{FakeGod}

might

also be not-Gnosia.

OFF WAGON:
I believe {ProfessorDrapion} isn't Gnosia.

Remainder for sorting Gnosia:
{narrow parking, Jada, beeboy, Esooa, Freedom}
I realize that's nothing special. But it's my

starting

point.

[Ranger]

I shouldn't have subbed in but host begged me
So I won't be back reading probably

You are the second slot to have taken this stance. It remains no less suspect than the first, given the short length of the game.
(And this would be why I'm not blindly clearing the slot.)

you are right
time constraints are wolfy

Time constraints are nai.
Not playing a game you signed up/subbed in for, less so. The time you spent on 1689, 1690, 1692, and 1698 could've been spent on a single post more productive than all of those combined:
"Hi, I'm busy and only subbed in as a favor, can't read the whole game. Can someone give me the highlights?"
You didn't ask for any help, or where to look, you didn't take a look at any VCs, you didn't ask about the flip or the game mechanics. These are all tasks of equivalent time to the time spent on 1689, 1690, 1692, and 1698.

What I laid out as possible for you have done is an equal amount of time spent on the game to what you

actually

have done, and demonstrates why your insistence on time constraints as an excuse is suspect. I laid out what you could've done in those time constraints, yet instead of any of that, you have given nothing.

[Ranger]

Why is shiki town, Ranger?

Strongly town by play. 1390 was absurdly town. shiki's pushes looked free of Gnosia agenda. I don't believe scum shot at shiki last night (the three I see as possible are {FakeGod, ProfessorDrapion, MathBlade}), reducing shiki's odds of being the bug. 1396 strongly pushed Jessica. 1446/1451 deny Jessica the easy out. 1457 and following. shiki's never Gnosia here, and I feel not bug or traitor, either.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Jessica Rabbit

For those wanting to do the same work I'm doing, this here is the beginning of the change in game from pre-Jessica-wagon to Jessica elimination.

ProfessorDrapion's replace-in was where it began. Prior to that, Marashu (his slot) was the largest wagon.

[Ranger]

TBH I am kinda of leaning towards a Jada+narrow scumteam rn.

That, or Jada + beeboy, would be my current assumption.

I'm still rereading, on page 44.

I'd encourage others to do what I am doing right now and reread this section of the game knowing Jessica is Gnosia.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Jessica Rabbit

This was the second vote on Jessica, from our conftown.

VOTE: Jessica Rabbit

VOTE: FakeGod
If you’re going to vote me knowing I can be confirmed town tonight, then you obviously aren’t.

I do think, given context, FakeGod is not Gnosia, but I still put him near top of the charts for Traitor/Bug. Since Gnosia is our priority today, he's not my focus tho.

On page 45, MathBlade's interactions also feel possible Traitor/Bug, but not Gnosia. This is fueled further here:

VOTE: Jada
I can see Jada + Rabbit.

Yet you vote Jada, not Rabbit who was voted by conftown.

Yeah if Jessica isn’t Mason they are wolf, Period. Tbh.

I don't think Drapion is Traitor, but can still be Bug.

I'm not voting a Nancy that takes personal offense at being scumread. That's Nancy's script for being town.

I feel Jada has a high chance of being Gnosia from this.

[Ranger]

Why did you wait to claim this?

Why would I claim it? I saw no reason to. Nobody brought forth reason until shiki did. I left enough breadcrumbs in my iso to make it obvious (131 shows why I used it); past that, I saw no need.

[Ranger]

Narrow and beeboy are good votes.

This gives me some pause to Jessica Rabbit + Jada + {narrow parking, beeboy} as the team of 3.

Open question (I assure you, not rhetorical; am serious): do you think Jada tries to divert attention away from Jessica Rabbit onto the third scumbuddy, by including a town player in it?
...As I was typing that out in the process of typing it out I realized what I was saying though so: yes, I do.

Obviously, still reading, but I would bet Jada as scum with Jessica, with the third as one of narrow parking/beeboy and the other as not-Gnosia thrown in for Jada to attempt to make the elimination.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Elmo
Let's vote here.

Jessica, vote w me please ...

This makes me disinclined to believe the Elmo slot is Gnosia, but Bug/Traitor both make sense still.

I could vote Elmo or beeyboy, I guess. I’m not tr either.

VOTE: Elmo

This supports that as well, and very weakly suggests narrow parking is the most likely third.

just caught up, jessica's rant was very scum indicative imo... elmo feels like a scum counterwagon and has less of my town reads on it
VOTE: Jessica

E-1

I still prefer enchant but this is better.

Vibes-wise this feels like a bus vote to me.

Ranger started the wagon. What’s your read on Ranger?

i town read ranger

Drapion's logic here was sound, as it feels narrow parking's stance lacks nuance.

[Ranger]

{Not Known 15, Herta}
{Enchant}
--
{Roden, Shiki}
--
{ProfessorDrapion}
--
{MathBlade}
{FakeGod}
{Esooa}
--
{Freedom}
{beeboy}
{narrow parking}
{Jada}

More hard-separations in my tierlist than ideal, but appropriate. Drapion not Traitor/Gnosia, but possible Bug. FakeGod/MathBlade/Esooa not Gnosia, but possible Traitor/Bug.

Last 2 Gnosia in {Freedom, beeboy, narrow parking, Jada}; as Gnosia are our priority today, prefer Jada > narrow parking.

If I had to guess Bug it'd be Drapion > FakeGod > MathBlade; if I had to guess Traitor it'd be Esooa > beeboy > Freedom = MathBlade > FakeGod. But as Gnosia are priority today, these are formalities.

[Ranger]

A common concern when it happened was that town didn't really have any reason not to claim it, especially since when it did happen it felt too coincidental with conversation at the time talking about keeping track of votes.

I actually activated it just before my first post.

I was aware of the discussion about not claiming it, but if you recall, nobody answered my 131. Since nobody engaged with the subject past that point, I saw no reason to claim. You can go back and check if you don't believe nobody engaged with the subject but I'm quite certain, given I was watching specifically for that subject and never once spotted it after.

[Ranger]

Good morning

I'd like everyone to check beeboy's "contributions" this game and see what they think.

On page 45, MathBlade's interactions also feel possible Traitor/Bug, but not Gnosia. This is fueled further here:

Explain why the quoted isn't gnosia?
If I need to read the page for context, I haven't, but that doesn't read unpartnered to me

It does require reading, yes.
MathBlade went from not pushing Jessica at all, to hard-pushing Jessica, once the info about Jessica was revealed. The toxicity from him not using Jessica's preferred name absolutely doesn't come from scumbuddies.

However, MathBlade's posts still fit as Traitor/Bug, and he's a top candidate for Bug imo. The most likely Gnosia kills last night were {MathBlade, ProfessorDrapion, FakeGod}; the Bug is certainly among them. Since we're still hunting Gnosia today, he's effectively town regardless.

[Ranger]

If we don’t all consolidate and scum do or tons of tiny wagons is my concern.

That's why we need to announce our votes.

Today voting Jada is a given.

[Ranger]

I can't claim.

For the record, this is explicitly bait. Don't fall for it. Outing the GA indirectly is what she wants by implying she is the GA. The real GA shouldn't give themselves away to counter this, nor should we spare her.

[Ranger]

Also regarding beeboy those posts are pretty pathetic. I’d rather get outed scum.

Yes. Today we always lim Jada.

Then, we need to bug hunt.

I believe beeboy isn't town, but beeboy's not my top choice for bug.

[Ranger]

On a plane today

LLD I want to reiterate; I'm not mad at

you

but I AM

frustrated

. You're the

third

replacement to give nothing on replacing in.

It's not your fault, especially given the holidays, but it's still exasperating.

[Ranger]

why is fakegod a potential night kill?

FakeGod's character power is an investigative + FG's actively involved with mechtalk + FakeGod was an active player at end of D1 who was cleared of being Gnosia by Jessica Rabbit. In spite of this, he doesn't look town.

The only other players qualifying are {ProfessorDrapion, MathBlade}. Drapion for the universal backup, MathBlade for

his

investigative.

[Ranger]

2. ProfessorDrapion. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
7. Ranger. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
13. Lady Lambdadelta. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.

You missed my claim.

Setsu

-

Vote

. (Yes, really, my character ability is legit called Vote.)

ProfessorDrapion is the character ability universal backup.

Lady LambdaDelta is the character ability refill.

[Ranger]

2. ProfessorDrapion. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
7. Ranger. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.
13. Lady Lambdadelta. Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.

You missed my claim.

Setsu

-

Vote

. (Yes, really, my character ability is legit called Vote.)

ProfessorDrapion is the character ability universal backup.

Lady LambdaDelta is the character ability refill.

Vote = gave us the normal day phase yesterday.

[Ranger]

Is Mathblade confirmed good in any capacity?

None.

Yesterday makes it clear he's not Gnosia (and Gnosia are the main threats today).

But he tops my charts as Bug(maybe traitor) candidate.

[Ranger]

Who we vote

Jada.

[Ranger]

Math feels scum to me, is my issue

He can be Bug or Traitor, but is almost certainly not Gnosia. Given we want Gnosia dead today, you can table suspicion until tomorrow.

[Ranger]

Anyone wanna double check my Shiki deep wolf theory?

I already did, it's quite unlikely.

[Ranger]

Plan IMO:
Vote to Freeze Jada.
If neither are a Security Guard, Vote to Freeze FakeGod/MathBlade (tomorrow we can discuss which).
Not Known 15 investigates the other.
If bug not dead, maybe vote out Drapion (although I'm thinking he's just town).

That should cover the likely bug suspects.

[Ranger]

what

Since only the GA would know why this happened, it would be best to avoid discussion about why it happened. Avoid giving commentary on it. Otherwise, you narrow down for the Gnosia who the GA would be.

[Ranger]

Herta should be coming to confirm Jada was another Gnosia.

If so, we can continue bug hunting.

I suggest eliminating MathBlade (who has already claimed not security guard), then tomorrow (10 alive), we have one/both of {Gimli, FakeGod} claim security guard/not security guard, eliminate one of them, and then on the next day (8 alive), Enchant should be alive and Herta should be alive and both security guards might be still alive and the GA could be alive still (obviously can't claim but I'm sure when the need arises we can figure out a workaround). Continue bug-hunting among the remainder.

[Ranger]

Mathing it out, if bug is in {MathBlade, Gimli, FakeGod} we can eliminate them all and still have one safe elimination for the Gnosia. (I assume technically two, as traitor is uninformed and thus in 4p with traitor/gnosia the gnosia don't automatically win.)

That is in a worst case scenario with no further failed kills. Gnosia can't kill Enchant without sacrificing a kill (so he'll always be alive as conftown), and the GA will give a chance for more foiled kills. With the conftown, should be good.

[Ranger]

Jada was human

This changes things.

While we

may

have a dead traitor (not guaranteed), we're confirmed to have 2 gnosia alive.

Bug needs to die like today

Actually, with two Gnosia still alive, I'd prefer to hunt the Gnosia.

We can afford to not hit the bug today.

We can't afford to keep letting two Gnosia live.

I'd suggest an elimination in {narrow parking, beeboy} (maybe Freedom) as that group likely contains a Gnosia. I want two dead Gnosia before bug-hunting because the Gnosia can give us an extra elimination if they hit the bug (if they didn't already).

[Ranger]

Actually, with two Gnosia still alive, I'd prefer to hunt the Gnosia.

The reason for this: One Gnosia alive can't kill Enchant without forfeiting a kill.

Two Gnosia alive

can

. One makes the kill, and the other makes the next.

Enchant living is crucial to a town win, so we need Enchant to not be killed, or to cost the Gnosia their next kill.

Furthermore, two Gnosia can communicate and coordinate at night, allowing them to have two voices to optimize their kill rather than one, and potentially, help plan dayplay.

Taking a second Gnosia out here is vital. I believe {narrow parking, beeboy} have the highest chance to contain Gnosia specifically.

[Ranger]

If you are not agree you free to object me, but you need hell reason.

My disagreement:

what

Since only the GA would know why this happened, it would be best to avoid discussion about why it happened. Avoid giving commentary on it. Otherwise, you narrow down for the Gnosia who the GA would be.

However, separately, I support mass-character-ability-claim anyway. The reason why differs, the result's the same. As a reminder;

You missed my claim.

Setsu

-

Vote

. (Yes, really, my character ability is legit called Vote.)

Vote = gave us the normal day phase yesterday (D1).

I've claimed already.

[Ranger]

(To give an idea, Enchant, there's at least two theories I came up with not on your list. Discussing them is explicitly antitown.)

[Ranger]

I am fine with that PoE but add Drapion and LLD

Drapion can be bug, but is absolutely not Gnosia.

LLD is just town.

[Ranger]

Narrow parking could be. Is Beeboy just cause they're not posting?

Mostly, yes. The last time the slot contributed anything was when it was Autere. This is the iso of the slot. beeboy replaced in on December 15th. 23 days ago. 3 weeks ago. 51 pages ago. beeboy claimed they wouldn't read anything before their replace-in, but do the math: there's been more content after beeboy's replacement than there was before beeboy's replacement. The game has been going longer with beeboy in it than it has been without (first 9 days).

If beeboy had flaked from the game, that level of contribution would be understandable. However, beeboy was active enough to submit a vote.

Night 2 Freeze Vote

Jada (12): Herta, ProfessorDrapion, Esooa, Mathblade, Ranger, Freedom, FakeGod, Enchant,

beeboy

, Lady Lambdadelta, Not Known 15, narrow parking,

Voting and Freezing:

1. If you do not vote before the deadline it will be counted as a self-vote.

beeboy has not flaked from the game, they submitted a vote on Jada.

And yet, in spite of the game having more content by every possible metric after beeboy's replace-in, beeboy has absolutely zero content given.

beeboy's sparse iso this game is comparable to a scumgame. It is also comparable to a different scumgame.

Near as I can tell

,

this

is a

towngame

from beeboy. Note the difference? A 3 page iso compared to two scumgames of bare minimum.

I realize beeboy has longer-iso scumgames. I realize beeboy has sparse in the way of recently completed towngames. (Most of beeboy's games have beeboy as a replace-out.)

But beeboy has no excuse for having been this absent yet having remained in the game. beeboy has contributed literally

nothing

.

[Ranger]

Narrow parking could be. Is Beeboy just cause they're not posting?

Mostly, yes.

Spoiler: beeboy not posting evidence

The last time the slot contributed anything was when it was Autere. This is the iso of the slot. beeboy replaced in on December 15th. 23 days ago. 3 weeks ago. 51 pages ago. beeboy claimed they wouldn't read anything before their replace-in, but do the math: there's been more content after beeboy's replacement than there was before beeboy's replacement. The game has been going longer with beeboy in it than it has been without (first 9 days).

If beeboy had flaked from the game, that level of contribution would be understandable. However, beeboy was active enough to submit a vote.

Night 2 Freeze Vote

Jada (12): Herta, ProfessorDrapion, Esooa, Mathblade, Ranger, Freedom, FakeGod, Enchant,

beeboy

, Lady Lambdadelta, Not Known 15, narrow parking,

Voting and Freezing:

1. If you do not vote before the deadline it will be counted as a self-vote.

beeboy has not flaked from the game, they submitted a vote on Jada.

And yet, in spite of the game having more content by every possible metric after beeboy's replace-in, beeboy has absolutely zero content given.

beeboy's sparse iso this game is comparable to a scumgame. It is also comparable to a different scumgame.

Near as I can tell

,

this

is a

towngame

from beeboy. Note the difference? A 3 page iso compared to two scumgames of bare minimum.

I realize beeboy has longer-iso scumgames. I realize beeboy has sparse in the way of recently completed towngames. (Most of beeboy's games have beeboy as a replace-out.)

But beeboy has no excuse for having been this absent yet having remained in the game. beeboy has contributed literally

nothing

.

Additional reasoning can be found in Jessica's iso.

Spoiler: every mention of the slot

Ranger, could you explain why you have Autere so high in your reads?

MOD MariaR:
Klick, Scoliosis, Elmo TeH AzN, Jessica Rabbit, and narrow parking are

all

in prod range.

With JunkoChan being replaced,

Six slots are absent from the game

;
That leaves only nine votes in play, when it takes eight to push an elimination through.

With it being impossible to get an elimination through without every player present voting

(which includes the scum),

can we have more than just a 24 hour extension for the deadline?

Either a freeze of it or an extension after each slot needing replacement has been filled?

You forgot Autere

mod

You also had Autere (beeboy) as well but I understood your initial Junko read more.

Hesta :igmeou:
Marashu :igmeou:
Jessica Rabbit :igmeou:
Elmo TeH AzN :igmeou:
Mathblade :igmeou:
Ranger :shifty:
FakeGod :shifty:
beeboy :igmeou:
Jada :igmeou:

What does :shifty: , :igmeou: mean? Is :shifty: higher or lower for you than :igmeou: ?

In particular I feel 970 is partner-indicative above all others, but all of them look partnerey.

Incidentally, I feel Jessica's lack of interaction with narrow parking also spews narrow parking as quite likely Gnosia.

I actually hate narrow parking more.
I just sheep conftown.

He didn’t even give a reason for his vote. What happened to all of the earlier wagons that stalled? Why aren’t you even a bit suspicious that I’m suddenly the lead wagon out of literally nowhere?

This is her only mention of narrow parking at all. If that were in regards to narrow parking's vote on her, this reaction is

far

more subdued than her comparable reactions to FakeGod, ProfessorDrapion, and MathBlade.

long parking's first mention of Jessica was a question mark, more seriously called null. When voting, the vote looks like a classical scum bus. 1458 indicates he may have been looking for an excuse to switch off, since it contradicts 1432.
And long parking had beeboy as town once, but has not mentioned the slot before or since.

Neither slot has done anything I've thought is town, both slots fit as scum with Jessica, both fit as scum with each other.

I'd prefer us to eliminate one of them today.

[Ranger]

what about 970 is partnery?

Loosely, unnatural focus on the reads section beeboy was among.

[Ranger]

I can compromise on narrow but I don’t understand how others aren’t calling for Gimili’s head since we need to have at most two wagons.

Gimli's ability has been proven to be true, per the mod correcting what was originally a mod error. The fact there was a publicly announced mod error and the corrected vc supports the claim indicates the mod error was not factoring Gimil's role. Ergo, Gimli's power is proven true.

The slot is spewed as not-Gnosia from the Jessica interactions. While bug/traitor are possible, today we should hunt gnosia and Gimli is essentially confirmed not-Gnosia.

If you want competing wagons,

I like the idea of killing beeboy, since it's potatoing much harder than I am as a replacement.

How about narrow?

I'd prefer dueling {narrow parking, beeboy} wagons.

[Ranger]

While bug/traitor are possible, today we should hunt gnosia and Gimli is essentially confirmed not-Gnosia.

what is the town +advantage of hunting gnosia tonight? We're either 9:2:1:1 or 10:2:0:1 today (town:gnosia:traitor:bug) depending on whether jada was a traitor or bad town. I don't feel comfortable spending more days limming low info lurkers when there's a 3p with an unknown win condition out there.

Nice try Gnosia but you're not going to convince us to bughunt instead of gnosia hunt.

The bug's win condition is apparently to endgame whichever faction would've won as long as the bug remains alive. The bug

does

need to die before we eliminate the last gnosia, but we've confirmation via Herta two gnosia are alive right now.

Ergo, there is absolutely no way for the bug to endgame the town overnight.

There is however a tangible benefit to eliminating gnosia today. Two gnosia alive can kill Enchant without forfeiting a nightkill. One gnosia alive cannot. Two gnosia alive can plan together during the night phase, sharing theories, strategies, and forming a path to victory. One gnosia alive has only themselves.

Fear-hunting for the bug is +gnosia.

We know the bug is alive.
We know there's two gnosia alive.
There may or may not be a traitor.
But per there being two gnosia alive, we need to eliminate a second gnosia today.

[Ranger]

where is this said in the setup?

Well it's half-stated here:

Bug

(Independant role that wins if another wincon is reached)

The information about Bug came from Enchant (who is confirmed not-Gnosia and confirmed not-Bug), and apparently that's how it works in the source material? (Idk, someone like Roden needs to confirm.)

The Bug's mechanics might not be known perfectly, but the bug doesn't have a nightkill for sure and can't endgame the town overnight for sure.

Show which you're going to vote.

I'm undecided, but lean towards narrow parking.

[Ranger]

maybe? but like, what's the case on narrow etc. I haven't really read enough to scumhunt so I'm leaning on good cases and whatnot. the case against beeboy is a replace in that isn't playing any mafia and that looks like resigned scum to me.

Basically,

Incidentally, I feel Jessica's lack of interaction with narrow parking also spews narrow parking as quite likely Gnosia.

I actually hate narrow parking more.
I just sheep conftown.

He didn’t even give a reason for his vote. What happened to all of the earlier wagons that stalled? Why aren’t you even a bit suspicious that I’m suddenly the lead wagon out of literally nowhere?

This is her only mention of narrow parking at all. If that were in regards to narrow parking's vote on her, this reaction is

far

more subdued than her comparable reactions to FakeGod, ProfessorDrapion, and MathBlade.

long parking's first mention of Jessica was a question mark, more seriously called null. When voting, the vote looks like a classical scum bus. 1458 indicates he may have been looking for an excuse to switch off, since it contradicts 1432.
And long parking had beeboy as town once, but has not mentioned the slot before or since.

Neither slot has done anything I've thought is town, both slots fit as scum with Jessica, both fit as scum with each other.

I'd prefer us to eliminate one of them today.

The first mention narrow parking has of Jessica Rabbit is listing her as null. The next mention was casting an L-1 vote on her, which looks like a classical scum bus vote. 1458 indicates a willingness to save Jessica, in a way I feel is scum-indicative (albeit requiring the knowledge I'm town); it looks like scum willing to shift off of Jessica if a town player (me) takes the blame for the shift in momentum.
2118 was an appeal to fear.

Beyond that, narrow parking's posting the entire game has felt lackluster. Nothing he's done or said has looked town and I've had him south of null the entire game for good reason.

[Ranger]

Enchant/Gimli son of gloin/Mathblade interaction with caught scum Jessica makes me think that those slots are town

We can't confirm them as town but we can confirm they're not Gnosia. Since we're hunting Gnosia today, that means they're off the table today. Same for you.

oh yeah jessica tried to deflect to beeboy as well

Where was this?

[Ranger]

oh yeah jessica tried to deflect to beeboy as well

Where was this?

I could vote Elmo or beeyboy, I guess. I’m not tr either.

And then they didn't vote beeboy, or even bring beeboy up at all.

That's laughably bad if you clear beeboy off of what is arguably one of the largest condemning posts for the slot. 1384 is partner-indicative for beeboy, not anti-partner-indicative. Tell me, which name did Jessica vote after having said she'd vote either? Was it beeboy?

It was not.

Perhaps there was a reason it was not beeboy!

[Ranger]

Can someone tell me if traitor knows wolves or wolves know traitor?

The traitor doesn't know the wolves;
The wolves don't know the traitor.

I think Ranger is wolf or traitor or bug or something maybe

Definitely the "something maybe". :P

[Ranger]

I could vote Elmo or beeyboy, I guess. I’m not tr either.

To reiterate,

VOTE: Elmo

It was not beeboy that Jessica voted. It was Elmo.

And the two are not equal in Jessica's iso. 1289 demonstrates willingness to vote Elmo; beeboy is not mentioned.

Elmo's only mentions are 1289, 1384, and 1385 (all 3 relating to voting).

beeboy gets mentioned in 674, 781, 969, and then 1384 (none of them relating to voting except the last).

Jessica's iso is sparse in terms of alignment-indicative content except for {MathBlade, Gimli, FakeGod} all of which are hard-spewed as not-Gnosia imo, and arguably Esooa as well for the vote (altho in hindsight reading it, this isn't actually as anti-partnerey as I previously assumed).

That makes garnering content on slots outside that lot difficult, but the beeboy mention is out of place. It's not a matter of "Jessica mentioned beeboy as a lim candidate, therefore beeboy town", it's "why did Jessica mention beeboy there at all, when beeboy

wasn't

a lim candidate?" The last time there was any mention of beeboy being a vote was 1199 (unless you count my readslists, the last of which was 1308 at the time of 1384).

There was no recent content for Jessica to be interacting with suggesting beeboy was a candidate.

So why was beeboy mentioned at all?

beeboy's presence there isn't clearing of beeboy; beeboy's presence there is

inherently suspect

.

[Ranger]

That's laughably bad if you clear beeboy off of what is arguably one of the largest condemning posts for the slot. 1384 is partner-indicative for beeboy, not anti-partner-indicative. Tell me, which name did Jessica vote after having said she'd vote either? Was it beeboy?

who are you talking to?

Anyone clearing beeboy off of a post which I feel is among the strongest reasons for beeboy to be scum.

[Ranger]

I think they'd be bug-hunting.

To be fair, I've done that too (bug's likely in {FakeGod, MathBlade, Gimli}), but my priority's stayed on Gnosia from the

moment

we knew there to be two alive.

If you want a player focused on bug-hunting, this seems a good place to start.

[Ranger]

VOTE: MathBlade
The more I think about it, the more likely I think I am a good elim for town.

Nice try Bug but you're not going to convince us to bughunt instead of gnosia hunt.

The bug's win condition is apparently to endgame whichever faction would've won as long as the bug remains alive. The bug does need to die before we eliminate the last gnosia, but we've confirmation via Herta two gnosia are alive right now.

Ergo, there is absolutely no way for the bug to endgame the town overnight.

There is however a tangible benefit to eliminating gnosia today. Two gnosia alive can kill Enchant without forfeiting a nightkill. One gnosia alive cannot. Two gnosia alive can plan together during the night phase, sharing theories, strategies, and forming a path to victory. One gnosia alive has only themselves.

Fear-hunting for the bug is +bug.

We know the bug is alive.
We know there's two gnosia alive.
There may or may not be a traitor.
But per there being two gnosia alive, we need to eliminate a second gnosia today.

:P

[Ranger]

VOTE: MathBlade
The more I think about it, the more likely I think I am a good elim for town.

Nice try Bug but you're not going to convince us to bughunt instead of gnosia hunt.

The bug's win condition is apparently to endgame whichever faction would've won as long as the bug remains alive. The bug does need to die before we eliminate the last gnosia, but we've confirmation via Herta two gnosia are alive right now.

Ergo, there is absolutely no way for the bug to endgame the town overnight.

There is however a tangible benefit to eliminating gnosia today. Two gnosia alive can kill Enchant without forfeiting a nightkill. One gnosia alive cannot. Two gnosia alive can plan together during the night phase, sharing theories, strategies, and forming a path to victory. One gnosia alive has only themselves.

Fear-hunting for the bug is +bug.

We know the bug is alive.
We know there's two gnosia alive.
There may or may not be a traitor.
But per there being two gnosia alive, we need to eliminate a second gnosia today.

:P

To explain, I'd like to reiterate: MathBlade's unlikely Gnosia from the Jessica-MathBlade interactions. It's not

impossible

, but it's

less likely

. Even in the event MathBlade

were

gnosia (which I doubt), his stunt would still be +gnosia if, as I suspect, narrow parking is Gnosia.

There was strong thread consensus to vote narrow parking.
MathBlade should know he was not in danger and not a priority.
I feel MathBlade taking a fall is to deliberately attempt saving narrow parking by splitting/dividing the votes in a more favorable way.

Thus, I request we keep our votes on target;
VOTE: narrow parking

[Ranger]

I think we need to execute me before Herta dies to eliminate me!Bug worlds.

With the Engineer dead, Herta should be the permanent target of the GA, barring shenanigans. As such, Herta shouldn't die at all (since gnosia won't know when the GA dies). Thus, there's no rush to kill a bug when we've got two gnosia alive.

I'm sorta pondering if scum ranger would hard defend jessica, but I think we just execute narrow parking today

Hard to say, first game back. Intuition says yes, but not in the way I did. I agree on narrow parking prio today.

[Ranger]

who do we vote?

narrow parking for a start.

If we insist on competing wagons,

gerryoats

not showing up when beeboy was also absent would also be a good vote.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not reading 88 pages. And I won't have context for the posts at the time. What's everyone thinking so far?

This sounds familiar.

I'm not catching up, I am just pretending the game started on this page and any other quoted posts are meta reads.
I've been waiting and feel the need to mention this.

[Ranger]

I'm starting to think you have a vested interest in us not finding the bug :lol:

Matter of fact, today, yes!
I've a vested interest in the bug not being the focus today when

Gnosia

are who we're trying to eliminate.

ranger attempted to derail the wagon on jess while saying "ill have a town case out tmrw just trust me bro"

While I definitely defended Jessica Rabbit, it was

certainly

not like you're saying.

ranger has been shading the beeboy since replace in from autere, who was pretty much locktown in every single read list.

It's almost like reads aren't static and a replacement can change my read!

The beeboy slot has been a top suspect since beeboy's replace-in post.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not reading 88 pages. And I won't have context for the posts at the time. What's everyone thinking so far?

Your predecessor was

very

inactive, which is why you are in the PoE for competing wagons. So far, your posting hasn't made me feel like it's worth putting you outside.

This continues to be true.

There's more reason for the read as well. Namely, {FakeGod, MathBlade, Gimli} are unlikely Gnosia; Esooa's slot was pushed at day end by Jessica Rabbit so Esooa's less likely Gnosia; I've strong townreads on {Roden, Lady Lambdadelta}; {Herta, Enchant} are conftown.

That leaves PoE for Gnosia as {Freedom, gerryoat, narrow parking}, and Freedom's posting has notably improved as the game has progressed.

[Ranger]

Wait a second, ranger had me as scum in 1623 which is in day 2 after Jessica flip, but she now thinks I'm not scum?
What changed?

Correction, I had you as "not sorted yet".
I sorted. :P

1623 came before my review of D1.
I reviewed D1.

D1 spewed you as not-Gnosia.
You remain a bug candidate, but since we're aiming for Gnosia, you're off the table today.

[Ranger]

Why do you think narrow is scum?

2080, 2118, 2147, 2194, and

{FakeGod, MathBlade, Gimli} are unlikely Gnosia; Esooa's slot was pushed at day end by Jessica Rabbit so Esooa's less likely Gnosia; I've strong townreads on {Roden, Lady Lambdadelta}; {Herta, Enchant} are conftown.
That leaves PoE for Gnosia as {Freedom, gerryoat, narrow parking}, and Freedom's posting has notably improved as the game has progressed.

PoE.

[Ranger]

do we know that bug and traitor is for sure alive?

Bug, fairly certain yes (Herta would see bug as bug, correct?); traitor, could be Jada.

We'll never know when the traitor is dead, we might now when bug dies. Still, better to err on the side of caution.

It doesn't become relevant until tomorrow tho; we

know

there's two gnosia alive; with two gnosia guaranteed alive, priority is eliminating gnosia.

[Ranger]

On the other hand, you seem pretty solvey

You and I have very different standards for solvey as gerryoats' posts have a different word I'd use to describe them. (Shading.)

[Ranger]

I just realised something.
Gerry needs to claim their ability before this Day ends, for the massclaim.

Has everyone claimed their ability already?

Name and character yes.

Shading how? I'm going based on what I've seen in the past 5 pages or so.

I've no better word for posts which weren't scumhunting yet attack others for their read on you.

You seem more concerned with discrediting those suspect of you rather than sorting them.

[Ranger]

my hands are fully thrown up in the air at the apathy and incompetence of the like, 5 confirmed townies who just said "meh"

I would've listened! I've no idea if I'd have followed, but I'd certainly have engaged.

Sadly, the dead don't have that power. :P

[Ranger]

honestly i was in a like brain fog for the entirety of this game, so many things i should've done to not throw so hard lol

Well you did kill the engineer on a day I couldn't defend him because the guardian angel had an unannounced indecisive modifier (I protected N1), and killed the guardian angel, and killed Herta after killing the guardian angel on a night I would've saved Herta if not dead.

So you did well in making perfect kills after N1.

And identifying the bug N1 is arguably good, too.

[Ranger]

I should have stressed the day before that Esooa should die last. My read wasn't great, but I was reasonably certain they were the last Gnosia. I wasn't expecting to die though.

If I were alive, you wouldn't have, but alas.