House of the Dragon - Game Over!
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I guess I should be fair and say 2/3 since mastina was a miss"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Andres you can't die you're our rock as obvtown captain of the kingsguard
you dying in the scum!Shea world would be a throw"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Was townreading both of them before they flipped, sick zinger tho, you get a point.In post 3254, Roden wrote:Char/Maria, Luke
Not gonna reply to the rest of your post since it seems like you're more interested in arguing than re-evaluating"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Actually what is the point of that reply, Roden? If scum me was faking an inaccurate scumread on ChariaR, why did I swap my vote to Dwlee at a crucial juncture of D1??"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Also in what universe does scum!GL with scum!Dwlee who wants to push town!Luke, write this post and then NK Luke??In post 1892, GuiltyLion wrote:
Datisi, I don't follow you on the Luke/Dwlee TMI point, specifically I think this claim is where the breakdown is. It's not hard for me to imagine Lukewarm seeing himself as the same level scumread for Dwlee as you based on these posts:In post 1869, Datisi wrote:so the fact that you're making such claims feels like... you are guessing what dwlee *should* be thinking, and claiming they're going against that, and i don't see evidence for what made you think that.In post 168, Dwlee99 wrote:HURT: Lukewarm
I don't think this is legitIn post 94, Lukewarm wrote:
I want to say that this is town, because what scum is going to fake this argumentIn post 66, JunkoChan wrote:Yeah yeah,I read the post, and I can't find the seven days thing
Did someone ask this is the scum pt and you forgot?In post 711, Dwlee99 wrote:Uh not datisi or lukewarm I got bad vibes when I was here before
like yes Dwlee never explicitly said "My two (2) biggest scumreads are both Lukewarm and Datisi, at equal strength", but I don't think it's unreasonable for Luke to see how Dwlee has repeatedly scumread/shaded him alongside you and conclude that you're both Dwlee's main scumreads. And then I don't think it's weird for Luke to point out that Dwlee hasn't really mentioned Luke since, it's kinda just a sub-point of your larger point that Dwlee isn't really demonstrating any serious intent to solve.In post 732, Dwlee99 wrote:
You contradicted yourself on a townread on someone else by not townreading me, and I didn't agree with lukewarm calling junko town for making a silly argumentIn post 729, Datisi wrote:hi dwlee why do you have bad vibes from me and lukewarm
so I agree with you Dwlee's play is still dodgy here fwiw I just don't see the Luke-Dwlee associative and I think you're kinda tunnel vision there.
@unwnd, am I right in understanding the point of your 1856 is that scum!Dwlee would be leaning harder into their personality/emotions/'quirk' to defuse pressure on themselves, and the fact that they're not doing that is 1) genuine and 2) not-survivalist, therefore town? How many games have you played/specced with Dwlee as scum that gave you this impression? I can see where you're coming from in that maybe Dwlee's play here isn'tscummy, but I still feel a vortex of a complete absence of towniness from their play/reads, and still think that makes them a good lim since if they continue engaging at this shallow level I'm never gonna be comfortable letting them get close to endgame. and I've definitely had games with town!Dwlee before where I got townvibes and did not feel this way"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Actually also wanted to call out this is just a blatant falsehood, at no point have I wanted Drapion dead or shaded Andres. Like if you think this you're reading a different game than the one we're playingIn post 3254, Roden wrote:You wanted Drap dead early on, and you've shaded and discredited Andres at different points."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 3310, Roden wrote:I think town!you should be a bit more open to re-evaluation when so many of your scum reads/suspected slots died early and flipped town.
But my point (that you've completely missed) is that IIn post 3310, Roden wrote:Can you explain the issue here?had already re-evaluatedon those slots and was no longer scumreading them by the time they flipped town, and this is clear in my ISO if you are reading it honestly and assessing me with an open mind. The joke/point behind my 2/3 comment was referring to slots that I actively currently seriously wanted to see flipped, Luke & ChariaR do not fall under that category because Ihad them as town and no longer wanted them flipped.
Throughout your time in this game you've framed my Luke scumread as this permanent thing I stuck with all game, when I very clearly worked my way to town Luke by the EOD1. It might not be quite as obvious to you because some of it happened in the supporter PT, but it feels like you're ignoring or missing this point completely in your campaign to paint me scummy for my read & interactions with Luke. so which is it."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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for the second half of your post.... are you serous?
having Drapion in a null tier of slots I would lim is a far cry from "wanting him dead". That single reads post is not "wanting Drapion dead". At no point did I vote Drapion, at no point did I case Drapion, as soon as Drapion started posting & engaging more (because he hadn't played the game at all at the time of my readslist post), I sorted him town. It's a huge misreppy reach to see that single reads post and call that me "wanting Drapion dead".
and neither of those posts are discrediting or shading Andres? 1778 is a genuine attempt to engage with Andres, those questions are for me to understand him better and it actually did become clear from his reply that he missed the Andante post I was making fun of, thus clearing up a misconception. The second post, what are you even talking about? are you understanding that post correctly? My point in that post was I saw Andres waffling on his read on me and considering eliminating me, that's not shade or discredit at all, that's exactly why I felt like my lim was likely to happen, because I think Andres is town and was being swayed to vote me.
I'm seriously having a hard time thinking you actually believe your argument here, because it feels like a hugely intentional misrepresentation. Your initial claim that I was scumreading/OMGUSing these slots because they suspected me. Nothing in those posts is me scumreading/OMGUSing those slots, and the posts you quoted as "evidence" are all either a) not me suspecting them at all (1778, 2716), and/or b) from before they indicated any suspicion on me (1085 with Drapion as a null slot, 1778). And the whole thing is disregarding a mountain of context of me actively townreading those players throughout the entirety of my ISO.
are you serious here?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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alright, this was the post I was waiting to see if you'd make, bet. I didn't want to do it because I don't think you've been very clear on what it is you think is not characteristic of my townplay beyond "AtE" and "scumreading your whole wagon" (which I didn't do this game, so already kind of a difficult criteria), but I am pretty sure if I spend an hour or so today I can at least dig up some similar instances of times of me getting angry that I'm being cased/voted for bullshit and yelling at people about my reads because I think I'm about to die and be ignored. And for a fun bonus I'll grab some times I've color coded in similar ways before too.In post 3311, Roden wrote:All of that and then bragging for the past few days that you can totally prove my meta assessment of you wrong, and then backing out when I tell you what my meta assessment is, just doesn't come from town IMO. I don't see what you have to lose by linking the kinds of games I'm looking for, I told you multiple times now that I'm open to re-evaluation, and even if you think I'd just tunnel you anyway I don't see how that's a particularly bad thing? If your linked games prove my claims wrong then people will just see it; it's not like I'll be able to form a mob to vote you out either way, but it'll be obvious that I'm not actually open to re-evaluating you if people see that your games blatantly contradict my assessment and I still continue to claim I'm right anyway.
it is going to take me some time though so after I do this you better drop your push on me entirely and start actually pushing scum, or else I'm gonna just vote park you after we get Johnny flipped"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Aite y'all, it's time for theGL Post on Why Roden's Assessment Of His Town Meta is Bad, Actually
to be helpful I have broken this down into three distinct sections. Posts where I am angry about being voted and snarky and salty in return (sec 1), posts where I am talking about how I scumread people voting me or emoting at people to sheep my reads after I'm flipped (sec 2), and posts where I am Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative (sec 3). I hope you'll also forgive me that some of these examples date back years, it is hard to find perfectly analogous posts in every game and I've only played one game at a time for the better part of 1-2 years now
Section 1 - General Salt/Frustration At Being Scumread For Stupid Reasons
Diffusion of Power
me getting riled up in response to implosion voting me
next post a literal OMGUS
I then continue to go on and on and on
Holiday Dance Party
got a ton of blowback/suspicion for this post where I was ~ reactive ~ to LLD casing me
not sure if it's a perfect fit for this section, but hey, it's me calling a town stupid if they don't listen to me on my townreads!
Section 2 - Scumreading Votes On Me, and/or Demanding that I'm sheeped if I'm limmed
This section was hard to find perfect examples I didn't already include in the first section, because it is rare that I go straight into an OMGUS. But then again, I didn't actually do that this game either, as has already been exhaustively covered in my prior back and forth with Roden.
City that Never Sleeps
This is not a perfect example, but I think it is interesting - me saying I'm 'fussy' about scumreads on me as town
Guns & Roses 3
another example of me making the case that I'm a lot more reactive and sensitive to votes on me astownthan as scum
Newbie 1965
I like this one "This may be self-centered but it's also honestly kinda impossible for me to grok how someone could look at the body of work and content I've produced this game in contrast to Titus and come away thinking I'm more likely to be scum. Like to the point where it almost singlehandedly makes me scumread you."
from the same game, "Rise, if you vote GBJ at any point this game I am going to be salty with you postgame. Warning you now "
even better, I am sure this post (click me!!) should qualify as "AtE" much in exact same vein, if not more extreme, as my "AtE" this game.
Section 3 - Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative
mmm look at me using nice and fancy red font
hey, another post with big fancy red font
ooh, busting out the green for this one
green font for emphasis
BONUS EXTRA FUN SECTION ON LUKEWARM
So I was rereading Shakespeare and I found a post where I called Luke out for feeling "surface-level", damn it's almost kinda... exactly like my exact same problem with him this game.
And look, I found another post from another game where Luke and I clashed as T/T and I called him surface-level. it's actually kinda funny how this has happened in three games now.
(sorry Luke I promise to get you right the next time we're T-T together)
I'm gonna stop here because it's late and I'm tired and I don't actually have quite as many examples yet from the first page or so of my completed games, it is hard because roughly half my games I don't get significantly cased/suspected at all so these situations don't come up. I am willing to continue this exercise going back further in my history if Roden is still not convinced but otherwise I am hopeful that this is at least enough of a few data points to get him to realize I am perfectly capable of being salty and reactive to votes and wagons on me as town, yelling at people to sheep me when I'm dead, and I also have posts describing my own town game saying explicitly as much, and that yes, I sometimes color code my posts."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Aite y'all, it's time for theGL Post on Why Roden's Assessment Of His Town Meta is Bad, Actually
to be helpful I have broken this down into three distinct sections. Posts where I am angry about being voted and snarky and salty in return (sec 1), posts where I am talking about how I scumread people voting me or emoting at people to sheep my reads after I'm flipped (sec 2), and posts where I am Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative (sec 3). I hope you'll also forgive me that some of these examples date back years, it is hard to find perfectly analogous posts in every game and I've only played one game at a time for the better part of 1-2 years now
Section 1 - General Salt/Frustration At Being Scumread For Stupid Reasons
Diffusion of Power
me getting riled up in response to implosion voting me
next post a literal OMGUS
I then continue to go on and on and on
Holiday Dance Party
got a ton of blowback/suspicion for this post where I was ~ reactive ~ to LLD casing me
not sure if it's a perfect fit for this section, but hey, it's me calling a town stupid if they don't listen to me on my townreads!
Section 2 - Scumreading Votes On Me, and/or Demanding that I'm sheeped if I'm limmed
This section was hard to find perfect examples I didn't already include in the first section, because it is rare that I go straight into an OMGUS. But then again, I didn't actually do that this game either, as has already been exhaustively covered in my prior back and forth with Roden.
City that Never Sleeps
This is not a perfect example, but I think it is interesting - me saying I'm 'fussy' about scumreads on me as town
Guns & Roses 3
another example of me making the case that I'm a lot more reactive and sensitive to votes on me astownthan as scum
Newbie 1965
I like this one "This may be self-centered but it's also honestly kinda impossible for me to grok how someone could look at the body of work and content I've produced this game in contrast to Titus and come away thinking I'm more likely to be scum. Like to the point where it almost singlehandedly makes me scumread you."
from the same game, "Rise, if you vote GBJ at any point this game I am going to be salty with you postgame. Warning you now "
even better, I am sure this post (click me!!) should qualify as "AtE" much in exact same vein, if not more extreme, as my "AtE" this game.
Section 3 - Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative
mmm look at me using nice and fancy red font
hey, another post with big fancy red font
ooh, busting out the green for this one
green font for emphasis
BONUS EXTRA FUN SECTION ON LUKEWARM
So I was rereading Shakespeare and I found a post where I called Luke out for feeling "surface-level", damn it's almost kinda... exactly like my exact same problem with him this game.
And look, I found another post from another game where Luke and I clashed as T/T and I called him surface-level. it's actually kinda funny how this has happened in three games now.
(sorry Luke I promise to get you right the next time we're T-T together)
I'm gonna stop here because it's late and I'm tired and I don't actually have quite as many examples yet from the first page or so of my completed games, it is hard because roughly half my games I don't get significantly cased/suspected at all so these situations don't come up. I am willing to continue this exercise going back further in my history if Roden is still not convinced but otherwise I am hopeful that this is at least enough of a few data points to get him to realize I am perfectly capable of being salty and reactive to votes and wagons on me as town, yelling at people to sheep me when I'm dead, and I also have posts describing my own town game saying explicitly as much, and that yes, I sometimes color code my posts."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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look I know Shea says he doesn't trust Mastina's reads and I certainly think Mastina is scum!MVP so far this game, but is there really any mechanical argument against making Mastina Prince and dumping all the roles on her? Like how is that not just the best case scenario for town, mastina will eventually get her head out of her tunnels and find scum even if she has to burn/waste some eliminations on town to do itIn post 3401, Enchant wrote:Asked some questions to mod:
1. Prince can receive PRs.
2. Prince WILL keep them after becoming king.
3. It's not known if overthrowing monarchy and choosing new king will allow to hire new council members.
4. King can't give PRs to self.
So i dunno guys, i think we need to give Grand Maester to trustworthy Prince, so after king die we will get undying Doctor.
Of course we need trustworthy prince. VOTE: unwnd"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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yah. it's something about your writing/thinking style, it just doesn't jibe with me. little did I know that you would replace into this game and now I have to deal with Lukewarm v2 if you're actually town here and making garbage posts/arguments like 3310. Speaking of that, did you actually explicitly reply to my 3318, I would appreciate if you addressed that and clarified what exactly your argument is at it relates to the claims:In post 3364, Roden wrote:
viewtopic.php?t=88281&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=GoIn post 3359, Roden wrote:
I was trying to find something in GL's ISO and saw this...what are you possibly referring to here? We only had two other games together and we were Masons in one of them.In post 1460, GuiltyLion wrote:I been skimming along but I need to work today so will respond to more later, wanted to jump in on that Dann post because that's easy to respond to without doing more rereading. I don't really get where all of the Junko support came from all of the sudden and want to spend time thinking about the votes there
I'm also maybe waffling on Lukewarm, I'm wondering if we just have major playstyle friction. I agree with everything TSQ just pointed out about his Titus read, it's the same issues I had with his LLD read, but I'm wondering if Luke kinda just... actually thinks like that? He had one post about how people read "confidence" into his reads that he doesn't feel is there which kinda resonated with me, it reminds me of similar issues I've had with Roden and S_S to a lesser degree, where I just chronically scumread the way they think about the game and what they decide to post and how they arrive at reads.
I saw VPB request that I do a reread of KTANE where I remember scumreading Luke, I'll try to do that as well as Shakespeare cause I feel like I vaguely remember Luke being Townie in Shakespeare. add it to the pile of meta homework
Is this the game you're talking about??
a) I scumread/OMGUS'd everyone who suspected me (3230)
b) when I challenged this assertion, your evidence/posts that you pulled up on Drapion and Andres slots does not apply because they are either not scumreads or not OMGUS"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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you're not considering the context where Shea was making it clear he townread Dwlee, I was campaigning in the Supporter PT to lim Dwlee and getting no traction, so I started shopping for alternate wagons amongst other slots I didn't townread at a certain point because I felt the Dwlee wagon wasn't ultimately going to go anywhere.In post 3371, ProfessorDrapion wrote:But basically it shows that GL voted off of Dwlee as an Enchant wagon was building and then when Maria wagon was building they also joined onto that and ended up causing Dwlee and Maria to be tied in votes.
You also are ignoring or forgetting 2294 where after MariaR replaces in and I find her town, I comebackto Dwlee to advocate for limming them yet again another time."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I like Dann's re-entry into the game, especially his Titus read and overall theories and views. Makes me feel a lot better about him again."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I wouldn't say "likely" scum but I think she's a decent candidate for scum that I may be overlooking, and specifically more what I like about that read is less that I think it's necessarily 100% accurate but more that I think the process makes sense. Dann has a working Theory of the Game ("LLD was the scum pick for King") and then pulled out an interesting point on Titus 769 being a soft townread/push for LLD King with plausible deniability. Dann didn't call this out but if I'm running with that theory it's also interesting Rhae hadIn post 3415, Datisi wrote:that's the part i liked the least... you think titus is likely scum here?Titusas her third pick for King in 1241, despite a fight between Titus and Rhae earlier in the game and Titus being one of Rhae's only main expressed scumreads (793, 969)
Mostly it just feels like a nuanced and novel take on the game that doesn't strike me as disingenuous or agenda-based, gives me the good solvey town!Dann feels
also, as an aside, this is not a super robust or strong meta point but I feel like my general meta vibe of Titus is that as town she is a lot more assertive and confrontational, prone to tunnels with frequent spots of moon logic. When she's scum she's more diplomatic and reserved, flying a bit more under the radar, and almost more reasonable than she is as town. Specifically I think games that give me this impression are HDP where she was town and relentlessly suspecting/pushing me the whole game, vs Situation Room where she was scum and chill, laid back, agreeable and I actually mistakenly townread her for that during most of the game until she got kind of POE'd out. Her play this game is starting to feel more and more like the latter to me."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Given some of the hullaballoo about no real case/reason to scumread Johnny, I would like to highlight this post again as one of my major points against Johnny slot.In post 3183, GuiltyLion wrote:In post 1891, unwnd wrote:Overall, I see two people who believe the other is scum. Right now I'm leaning on it being TvS but I digress
quick point on unwnd associativesIn post 1900, unwnd wrote:
As I said, I think the situation is possibly TvS. I may be just paranoid(?) about datisi for no reason and Dwlee is just scum who doesn't give a fuckIn post 1897, GuiltyLion wrote:
I don't think they're being intentionally vague, but I do feel like they're not seriously trying. I think my central issue is it feels like they had page 5 scumreads on Datisi/Luke/Dann and then haven't evolved them at all, nor given us any new ones that are demonstrably impacted by the past 60+ pages.In post 1894, unwnd wrote:So that being said, what do you think of their stances? Even if there is still more to be desired. Do you believe they are being intentionally vague?
I think the towniest thing from this perspective is what I just said, the fact that their Lukewarm scumread seems to have slightly softened, the only scum!agenda I can see there is if they're trying not to piss off Lukewarm and bait him onto their wagon, but even then when Lukewarm indicated that hedidn'tlike Dwlee's reaction/response, Dwlee still just kinda nonchalantly doubles down on it.
you're right overall, it's mostly that I desire a lot more from them more than I think these stances can't come from town
this angle in particular, taking a TvS stance on a townie (Datisi) calling out a scum (Dwlee), is like super textbook scum distancing ploy. unwnd can fight against the Dwlee wagon by shading one of the main proponents, while leaving himself room to flip his read on Dwlee if/when Datisi is flipped and if he needs to start bussing to follow the winds of the town.
I find it's actually pretty rare that townies take a stance of "this dialogue between two players is TvS, but I'm not totally sure which is T and which is S". I don't think townies tend to think like that in practice whereas scum more often feel this looks like real solving. A townie is more likely to just... townread their T read and scumread their S read and not leave themselves wiggle room to 180 reverse those reads later. or, alternatively, if they truly feel ambivalent/uncertain about it, they're not gonna be thinking about it as a TvS scenario in the first place, they think it may still be TvT.
so yeah, this looks fake and like a scum angle to take
The tl;dr is that I think taking a stance of "this looks like TvS" while leaving yourself room to waffle or switch on which player is T and which player is S is more likely to be a scum artificial thought process than a genuine one. I don't often see Town make posts like that."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I have a thought about it but I think it'd be better to let Andante respond herself first, I will comment on it after she replies to your latest postsIn post 3518, Thestatusquo wrote:I'm not going to let this andante point just get passed by though, can we talk more about this."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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yeah this is exactly what I was gonna say, I think Andante was arguing scum!Johnny doesn't refer to scumbuddy wagon as apathy wagon because it's TSTBS. I just didn't want to preemptively defend her on her behalf and I wanted to see whether she'd make the same point herselfIn post 3543, UNOwen wrote:I interpreted Andante as talking about Johnny's perspective - Johnny was calling it an apathy wagon, not necessarily that she agreed it was an apathy wagon."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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can you elaborate/paraphrase whyIn post 3576, fireisredsir wrote:rhae does not look aligned with dwlee in the non-supporters pt
this seems to be the biggest point in Johnny slot's defense and it's totally inaccessible to me. Mastina/Andante (I think?) both also made similar claims but I don't feel like I have an understanding of what she did in the non-supporter PT that seems obviously unaligned, and I need more detail than this to actually consider it seriously"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I thought he felt fairly townie in responses to pressure from me & unwnd towards the EOD1, though me not liking unwnd's angles and attacks may have colored that read somewhat. I am open to reassessing cause it feels like he's been coasting a bit D2/D3 and a couple of his pop ins struck me as more focused on grabbing towncred than solving or pushing his scumreads (thinking of one in supporter PT in particular where I said Drapion town for unvoting MariaR and he jumped in to say 'me too!' on that).In post 3603, fireisredsir wrote:who townreads furtive and why
can you elaborate a lil more on your Roden townread?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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although idk, skimming furtive's ISO again I just don't really feel scum there
he's not super town but doesn't really feel particularly scummy to me and I def don't think unwnd/Johnny - furtive is S-S, and I've been locked in on the Johnny scumread"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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on this, I'd keep in mind that it couldn't really be fully public in main thread PT by that point cause Rhaenyra was already out of postsIn post 3595, Firebringer wrote:
its not that public....we can do wifom for days on this. I don't think this was staged.In post 3593, Dannflor wrote:
isn't that type of thing usually great to have out in the open to look disaligned thoIn post 3591, Firebringer wrote:like dwlee first post if they were scum together and disagreed could have easily been reserved for scum PT talk.
so if Dwlee/Rhae want to distance somewhere, the only real available option by that point is a PT that half the game is in"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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In post 2862, Dwlee99 wrote:Who is around for chatIn post 2864, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I'm here Derek what upIn post 2865, Dwlee99 wrote:What are recent events?
Nothing much, just trying to make progress on the pokedex while checking threadIn post 2866, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I'm almost at 300 on my dex nice
You're like a big wagon because this approach matches your scum game. I called it an apathy wagon and got some justifiable pushback.
Math is here and thinks I'm scum with Shea, which is untrue so it's hard to engage with the rest of his points without, like, major concentrationIn post 2868, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Do you have like reads? Even like a vibe on somebody?In post 2871, Dwlee99 wrote:Off the top of my head:
Andante, TSQ, Firebringer, Unwnd slot town
Datisi, Dann scumIn post 2873, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Is unwd even in this game?In post 2875, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Oh I'm unwnd nowIn post 2876, Dwlee99 wrote:Static from like 5 days ago when I last played the game? Did Johnny ask for an explanation?
this whole conversation also just feels fakeIn post 2877, Dwlee99 wrote:Unwnd's approach to my wagon was townie and they were clearly solving for people's alignments with their reactions to people's posts (no I don't remember specifics)
like,
-the fact that both of them are conveniently around to 'chat' and then both disappear for several hours after this after having a conversation that goes nowhere
-Johnny allegedly forgetting that he is unwnd
-Johnny referring to pushback on him as "justifiable" (so did he really believe it was an apathy wagon or no??)
I also kinda think Johnny's post/thought around "Math thinks I'm scum with Shea and that's untrue" is a super easy thing to riff on in a world where Shea is town so itisfactually untrue, he doesn't have to lie about it"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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the fact that Dwlee refers to Johnny as "unwnd slot" in a conversation with the new current member of that slot is actually kinda wonky now that I'm paying attention to it
like why would he not just say Johnny, or your slot. why the weirdness there.
I don't know if I can comfortably nail that as AI but it's weird. why does Dwlee do that in the town!Johnny world. why would he not want to say "you" if his goal is to pocket/buddy Johnny. like it feels like Dwlee is more focused on retroactively selling unwnd's ISO as town, moreso than achieve a useful outcome in talking to a town!Johnny"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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edit for correct pronouns, I am sorryIn post 3610, GuiltyLion wrote:the fact that Dwlee refers to Johnny as "unwnd slot" in a conversation with the new current member of that slot is actually kinda wonky now that I'm paying attention to it
like why would they not just say Johnny, or your slot. why the weirdness there.
I don't know if I can comfortably nail that as AI but it's weird. why does Dwlee do that in the town!Johnny world. why would they not want to say "you" if their goal is to pocket/buddy Johnny. like it feels like Dwlee is more focused on retroactively selling unwnd's ISO as town, moreso than achieve a useful outcome in talking to a town!Johnny"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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on the other hand, maybe Dwlee just genuinely forgot that Johnny is the new unwnd, in which case that should be clearing for Johnny"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I think we are but with the Johnny wagon. If he's town he's a super easy lim at this point and if there's a scum deepwolf in GL/VPB like some believe, it'd be a good chance for a team with them to get a chance at Prince. So if we're in that world why does the thread seem stalled on a Johnny wagon? Why wouldn't scum vote him by now? He's not even been around to defend himselfIn post 3665, Firebringer wrote:Are we doing a repeat of dwlee with hesitation to buss or something."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I'm leaning town on UNOwen. When I was looking through my old games i took a glimpse at UNOwen ISO in Situation Room and people were mistakenly scumreading him for similar things as this game (asking questions that don't seem to lead anywhere, somewhat detached/aloof thread presence). I don't think it's alignment indicative for him and i don't think he's done anything this game overtly scummy, so I'm curious what the case on him is here"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Also how do you know whether scum were hesitant to bus Dwlee?In post 3665, Firebringer wrote:Are we doing a repeat of dwlee with hesitation to buss or something."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I think Dwlee knew they were going down on D2 because they almost went down on D1, obviously, but I don't think that means scum planned to bus them at the start of the game. I would look for people who artificially increased in confidence on Dwlee from D1 to D2In post 3686, ProfessorDrapion wrote:Also I ask people.
I mentioned how Dwlee was aPlanned Buss
Does anyone disagree?
If you do, say you do, explain yourself and then I’ll explain how Dwlee knew he was gonna be executed day 2 without a doubt.
I mean C’mon the dude would have been voted out day 1 if it wasn’t for the king."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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sorry for not being around this weekend - I've loosely followed along but I will try to fully catch up and do stuff today. I'd still like a Johnny lim, it's unfortunate that someone will have to replace into that slot and not be able to answer for either unwnd or Johnny's play. I think the only other wagon I'd be willing to switch for with no hesitation is Titus. Still not feeling UNOwen at all, maybe could be talked into furtiveglance with a more serious review of his content
@mastina I saw your giant post, I still think you're completely wrong, you basically just assume scum have far more control over a game than they actually do, but unless it will help you see me as town I don't really want to continue arguing it until you can take my words on good faith."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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what's up gamers
let's get that cop result
i'd vote any of titus/furtive/firebringer/drapion"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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In post 3829, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:The Kingsguard have until 2 days, 0 hours, 12 minutes to vote for a New Lord Commander in their PT - plurality rules will apply at deadline if a majority is not reached.
also give feedack on this if you have opinions y'all
it's between VPB/GL/Titus/Dann"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Ok, let's say we're scum and we killed Andres so we could be kingsguard. Then we can use our new position to overthrow the King because now no one can stop us!!!! despite the fact that we could have simply done it with our scum majority in the Kingsguard literally the night before. Oh and also us overthrowing both a town!Shea and a cop cleared mastina would be tantamount to scumclaiming, which benefits this team, how?In post 3834, mastina wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ no wonder the scum killed Andres that is literally 2-4 scum and deadass could be the entirety of the scumteam.In post 3831, GuiltyLion wrote:it's between VPB/GL/Titus/Dann
Can you stop spinning literally everything to try to shade me?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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What does this meanIn post 3840, Roden wrote:I guess we're just pretending yesterday didn't happen"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Yes, because she's the slot most likely to be town besides me. The fact that I disagree entirely with her reads doesn't change that fact"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I don't care if she kills me if she's unkillable conftown"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Yeah, having a conftown in an unkillable role, so dumb. Gosh how can I be sooooo stupid"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Ok, so she vigs me and I flip green. Then what does scum do. She's still unkillable cop cleared doctor"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Who is the core 4, i would assume from context you mean like GL/VPB/Datisi/?? but Datisi hasn't even posted yet"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Also the nomination list is forced by Andres picks for the Kingsguard last night"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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He didn't say anything about tracking.
Mastina I genuinely forgot that scum players in these roles get special abilities lol. So that's a good point, but I wasn't pretending like I didn't know that, I straight up forgot"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Mastina would you prefer if VPB is Lord Commander over me? As token of goodwill I am happy to support him. Won't go for Dann or Titus"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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mmmmmm ok
I am gonna sleep on this game
the last couple pages have made me feel good about TSQ/fireisred/firebringer, just the conversation and thoughts being shared feel pure and productive and I'm largely in agreement with them
shoutout the TSQ post about feeling antsy about scum!Datisi world being both the most dangerous and yet still not likely, I am feeling the same way in that part of me has a desperate urge to start building in guardrails in case I'm reading Datisi totally wrong but another louder part of me still thinks he's just town
and I liked the fireisred/firebringer discussion about worlds of this game and whether we're in the world of 4 scum contained in a list of players mostly just boxed out of the game and not really trying
I still am not really there on UNOwen scum but Dann wagon doesn't feel so bad. I might prefer furtive
I will be back tomorrow - I am going to vote Titus for Lord Commander"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Firebringer can you skim his ISO in Situation Room and tell me what you thinkIn post 3995, Firebringer wrote:i haven't exactly built a case filled with post numbers and deep dives to give a tldr:
> I don't like his questioning, they didn't seem like actual questions to help him get mindset of player
> I don't feel his reads are genuine.
> He hasn't done anything since basically day 1 at all to even pretend to be scumhunting imo.
I can do deep case if needed but skim iso tell me if disagree.
it checks these same boxes
and maybe that's personality indicative instead of alignment indicative, like maybe he's scum, I will reread him again here, but I don't think you can specifically say questions that don't dig at mindset or not doing stuff constantly are scumtells for UNOwen in the way they are for players on average"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I don't know if I like that Firebringer didn't accept UNOwens challenge
Firebringer, why didn't you accept"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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10% chance of instantly killing your top scumread"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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In post 3829, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Trial by Combat has been increased to 10% chance of death - there is still a limit of two trials per day."I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I also think if you're confident in your scumread, which FB has indicated that he is, it's better to take odds that they die. Town outnumber mafia and if you flip green people will also know your scumread was genuine"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Does everyone think my wagon is pure hereIn post 2550, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
I highly highly doubt it.
There must be scum in Shea/Fire/Drap"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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Datisi what do you think of my VC point
who do you think is scum pushing me as a CW to Dwlee, if anyone
especially knowing for a fact now that Dwlee wagon has Titus (town), Andres (town), Datisi (town FYPOV), GL (town FMPOV)"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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I really don't like that he didn't accept UNOwen's challenge, or his UNOwen scumread in general. It feels like he's hoping UNOwen's playstyle will do the legwork for him instead of analyzing at a real level why UNOwen is scumIn post 4088, Datisi wrote:VOTE: drapion
let's put the money where my mouth is for now
gl, what's your case on firebringer other than... him voting you at some point? poe?"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
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that's another good point, I don't like that FB has tried to push the idea of "all town council" since like the start of the game"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"-
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GuiltyLion he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13829
- Joined: August 19, 2015
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle, WA
In post 3844, Firebringer wrote:
Reminder: You wanted Mastina as king.In post 3842, GuiltyLion wrote:Can you stop spinning literally everything to try to shade me?In post 3846, Firebringer wrote:
The chances she kills u is extremely high, and yet for some reason u ignore this fact.In post 3845, GuiltyLion wrote:Yes, because she's the slot most likely to be town besides me. The fact that I disagree entirely with her reads doesn't change that fact
Friend i think uve lost it.In post 3848, Firebringer wrote:thats dumb and i would hope u realize it.In post 3853, Firebringer wrote:
You want to give a gun to someone who knows will kill you, but apparently this is rational because somehow its better for you to be dead and that person who has bad reads to continue killing town.In post 3849, GuiltyLion wrote:Yeah, having a conftown in an unkillable role, so dumb. Gosh how can I be sooooo stupid
Yes, this is ridiculous. You should realize its ridiculous. Just because she is town doesn't mean she is right, you know this.
this whole argument was also pointless, especially given that Mastina is already Prince, what's the pointIn post 3854, Firebringer wrote:i didn't know i had to sell GL on the idea he needs to live.
if FB is really worried about Mastina killing me he should be working to change Mastina's reads, not chastise me for thinking she's mechanically the best choice for the role"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"