Community

[Passenger]

Hi everyone

[Passenger]

Hi everyone. I'm the Miller

Is this TMI? furtive says that he is

the

miller, as opposed to just a miller. This suggests that he knows there is no miller in the game, thus suggesting that killer is a fakeclaim he was given by the mod.

[Passenger]

I think you probably are a miller since I don’t see much point of you coming up with that on your own.
Rather it doesn’t seem to be part of your wheel house.

Do you like to fake claim? Have you fake claimed before?

Do you think that furtive is not a player who would fakeclaim miller because of prior experience, or just vibes as a player?

[Passenger]

I don’t really furtive would come up with a fake claim the instant the game started.
Either they were handed it by the mod, there’s something in their role pm that explicitly encourages them to claim miller as scum
Or they’re just telling the truth.

Maybe their flavor inspired them, but not sure how likely that is.

Eh… I was leaning towards the second option but I’m feel like I am making a pretty big reach. Do we know if scum have fakeclaims?

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

rcan you please explain what you mean by “make posts AI in your head?”

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

This is also what I thought. It seems like DeasVail is playing from the point of view of someone who is looking over posts with a checklist of tells to appear useful, rather than engaging in actual solving.

VOTE: DeasVail

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

This is also what I thought. It seems like DeasVail is playing from the point of view of someone who is looking over posts with a checklist of tells to appear useful, rather than engaging in actual solving.

VOTE: DeasVail

Maybe but why them specifically over hmm...basically everyone else, excluding Bombay and maybe Bell. Rest of us weren't exactly overtly solving stuff.

PS: I'm taking frogsterking's readings on page 1 as a joke, not them being serious

The difference between DeasVail and the people who have been posting but not DeasVail is two things.

1. The fact that DeasVail posted about his inability to solve. This shows that DeasVail is scum concerned whether people believe he is solving or not. Statistically this has proven to be a weak but >rand tell.

2. The content of his post. He says that he’s trying to make posts AI in his head, but can’t. Scum when out of ideas tries to do exactly that: look at posts and see if they follow a list of common tells, rather than organically notice a post and realize that it follows a tell, which town does. I suppose the gist of what I’m saying is that DeasVail is scum trying to find reads by creating thought processes, meanwhile town finds reads not by creating thought processes but by simply having those thought processes.

[Passenger]

Tell me if @above doesn’t make sense, I don’t think I phrased it very well.

As for Frogsterking, he is the type of player who scumhunts by psychoanalyzing the reactions to his posts, and he creates his posts with that in mind. As such, take nearly everything he says in the early game with a grain of salt.

[Passenger]

This is shaping out to be a game where my approach works and I go 2/3 in my early reads. I'll let you guys fight it out a little bit more before I post my PoE. Unless Bombay rolled scum and Luke is taking the reigns for marci (which I think isn't the case though my certainty is

low

) my reads indicate no scum has written more than 4 posts.

I don’t follow the logic behind this. Marci hasn’t posted yet, and you’re saying that the only way Bombay is scum is if Luke is taking the reins for marci. But isn’t that exactly what Luke has been doing? I’m confused.

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

rcan you please explain what you mean by “make posts AI in your head?”

I tend to think that most posts are probably NAI, at the end of the day. But particularly in the early game I think it’s helpful to think about whether particular posts are more likely from town, and to push on anything that might be from scum. For the posts made thus far, I had some thoughts along the lines of “this could be from town”, but then also counter-arguments in my head about why what I thought was town, wasn’t necessarily.

For example, I agree that Star Power’s post isn’t particularly indicative of scum, but I also can’t townread that post. In the end it’s just a colourful way of saying “let’s kill scum!”

I see. There are more to posts than what the post boils down to, there’s wording, tone, etc, but I get where you’re coming from.
UNVOTE:

[Passenger]

VOTE: pengy

Ngl I kinda like that this community is in a lil turmoil if this is how we treat foreigners

what does this mean?

A bit of partner equity with Fruitofelegance and Deasnutz here, because this seems like a straightforward joke to me in context, so maybe deas just isn't reading furfurs posts?

That or my humor isn't clear

I could see a world in which someone misinterprets your post.

[Passenger]

can you vote kokabiel

-marci

This, on the other hand, is NOT cute at all. I fail to see how calling acquaintances to join a... RVS? vote is town behavior

Why do you think it’s scum behavior?

[Passenger]

59 is over-explainy. Which is the only reason I’m putting this vote down. I’m not buying Scum enters the thread and basically says I can’t find ways to contribute. I would probably spam or act silly before I admit that I am not actively contributing to solving. That’s my perspective so obviously won’t apply across the board. But that’s all I got. So I think Passenger is trying to justify a vote with too many words when there’s no way you can make that long a case about anyone.

The question I was being asked didn’t make sense given the context, so I felt the need to restate my case on DeasVail. Also, I spent 1/3 of that post rephrasing what I had already said because I didn’t know whether I was being clear enough.

[Passenger]

Marci is town.

What about Luke’s posts?

[Passenger]

Spoiler:

Breaking down this interaction:

Post 1

Kokabiel says Marci’s vote on her is scummy.
Kokabiel says Marci asking Frogster to join the wagon is towny for Frogster.
Kokabiel says DeasVail inviting himself onto the wagon is scummy for DeasVail.

Post 2

Frogster asks why DeasVail is scummier than him, because they did the same thing.
Frogster says that Kokabiel is trying to start a TvT fight between DeasVail and Johnny

Post 3

Kokabiel asks Frogster why he claims that she faked her evaluation.
Kokabiel asks Frogster why he never asked Marci why she faked her read on her.

Post 4

Frogster asks Kokabiel why he would ask Marci why she voted Kokabiel.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why DeasVail inviting himself on the wagon is scummy.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she disagrees with Johnny’s case on DeasVail.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she is asking him questions.

My Analysis:

Kokabiel scumreads Marci because Marci’s vote on her was a naked vote with no explanation. This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Frogster does not understand both Kokabiel’s premise and her logic, and thinks she must be trying to start a fight between DeasVail and Johnny. This point is invalid because her premise is wrong but NAI and her logic is correct. Frogster is scummy for this post because he assumes that because he doesn’t understand something, it must be scummy. If he was trying to engage with her in good faith he would have waited for her answer.

Kokabiel correctly points out Frogster’s leap of “I don’t understand” to “this is scum.” Frogster responds by asking Kokabiel questions she has already answered and then he asks her what she intends to achieve by asking him questions. Frogster also says that he will always scumread things he doesn’t understand.

By this point, Frogster has conceded he engaged in scummy behavior, and all of his reasons for Kokabiel being scum are invalid because of that.
VOTE: Frogster

[Passenger]

OK, did post 74 change your read?

What a useless fucking question.

Ah, psychoanalysis...not my favorite but what can you do?

What makes you assume Passenger is telling the truth?

No, this is a useless question. What possible reason would I have to lie about that?

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

Also, saw 2 different people taking this seriously.

I am pretty sure that this was a sarcastic/ joke post from Bell. Which made passenger latching onto it as an excuse to vote DeasV pretty bad.

I wasn’t using it as an excuse to vote DeasVail, I thought that DeasVail’s post was weird before I even saw Bell’s post, and then when I turned the page and saw his post it clicked in my mind.

[Passenger]

Also how do you even come to the conclusion that I’m using Bell’s post as an excuse to vote DeasVail? I add on to Bell’s post and provide my own reasoning on top of it.

[Passenger]

can you vote kokabiel

-marci

This, on the other hand, is NOT cute at all. I fail to see how calling acquaintances to join a... RVS? vote is town behavior

Why do you think it’s scum behavior?

The vote itself isn't bad, it's the fact that she is calling other people to join it. Pushing someone without any reason is dumb and anti-town.
While anti-town doesn't necessarily mean scum, it's the best thing i have right now and getting rid of people like this in absence of better alternatives is a great move.
I decided to scumread this instead of seeing it as bad town because i doubt she would make such a blunder as town.

Now that you know that Marci had reasons to push you, how does that change your read? Also, why do you not think that marci would not make such a blunder as town?

[Passenger]

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

How specifically am I misrepresenting your motivations? As for 135, I found it very hard to follow the specificities of your interaction with Kokabiel so I wanted to logically map it on paper before I came to a conclusion.

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

rcan you please explain what you mean by “make posts AI in your head?”

I tend to think that most posts are probably NAI, at the end of the day. But particularly in the early game I think it’s helpful to think about whether particular posts are more likely from town, and to push on anything that might be from scum. For the posts made thus far, I had some thoughts along the lines of “this could be from town”, but then also counter-arguments in my head about why what I thought was town, wasn’t necessarily.

For example, I agree that Star Power’s post isn’t particularly indicative of scum, but I also can’t townread that post. In the end it’s just a colourful way of saying “let’s kill scum!”

I see. There are more to posts than what the post boils down to, there’s wording, tone, etc, but I get where you’re coming from.
UNVOTE:

This feels like a pretty quick backtrack on a vote that you felt you had reasoning behind. What changed your mind?

I jumped the gun on scumreading you when you said that you were trying to “make things AI in your head.” I buy your explanation and I don’t think it’s scummy.

[Passenger]

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

Also, saw 2 different people taking this seriously.

I am pretty sure that this was a sarcastic/ joke post from Bell. Which made passenger latching onto it as an excuse to vote DeasV pretty bad.

I wasn’t using it as an excuse to vote DeasVail, I thought that DeasVail’s post was weird before I even saw Bell’s post, and then when I turned the page and saw his post it clicked in my mind.

Also how do you even come to the conclusion that I’m using Bell’s post as an excuse to vote DeasVail? I add on to Bell’s post and provide my own reasoning on top of it.

Maybe "as an excuse" is the wrong word, but you definitely framed your vote as you agreeing with Bell

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

This is also what I thought. It seems like DeasVail is playing from the point of view of someone who is looking over posts with a checklist of tells to appear useful, rather than engaging in actual solving.

VOTE: DeasVail

Like I said, I think I used the wrong words when I said "as an excuse."

Dumbing down my reaction to the post to make it more clear what I am saying that I saw, is I felt like I was reading "Yes, I agree with you, fellow townie, this *is* scummy. Lets vote this"

Framing your suspicions as agreeing with someone else feels like an approach that scum would take. It was compounded by the fact that I don't think that Bell was serious, so it felt like you were not closely reading either Deas or Bell's posts there.

Anyways, I am more interested in in Koka atm, but that was my gut reaction to reading your vote post.

~Luke

I understand. Let me put it this way:

I agreed with Bell’s post about DeasVail and I did not interpret it as a joke at all because I had thoughts that led into the post and beyond it.

[Passenger]

This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Do you agree with that logic or are you saying is making sense based on Kokabiel logic. Cuz I'm not seeing it.


Also, the miller claim. Never played with one. But from what I've read, it's basically a claim that's usually treated as "consider it true for the moment cuz we can't really disprove it". That's why I don't see much in Bell's reaction- said that it could be totally true, but could come from either town or mafia who played with a miller.

Kokabiel’s logic is entirely sound, but her premise that which she bases her logic on is false. Therefore, her conclusion is false too.

[Passenger]

It makes it feel like she wanted to make a comment on *something*
~Luke

That part might be true. I try to talk more.

Maybe, but it was an observation related to my question to furtive.

Current discussion? Well, I am here: Kokabiel is convinced asking for votes on them is scum. Plus the whole inviting vs invited being a sign of town/mafia. Nope, don't agree with this logic but I don't think mafia would be so willing to put it all on that hill.

Why do you think that scum would not be willing to die on that hill? If anything, Kokabiel’s continued doubling down is scummy - scum try to win arguments, town try to gauge alignment.

[Passenger]

I townread Passenger

Congrats, you have now ensured your survival to endgame.

(I'm half-joking, you may be right for all I know, it feels a little presumptive to me though)

Let me get this straight. furtive’s townread on me is presumptive, but your team solve with me in it is not presumptive?

[Passenger]

How specifically am I misrepresenting your motivations? As for 135, I found it very hard to follow the specificities of your interaction with Kokabiel so I wanted to logically map it on paper before I came to a conclusion.

The misrep comes from summarizing my interaction with Koko and then attributing a scum motivation on my end when my motivation could more easily be explained as a Resident trying to solve the game from an uninformed perspective.

Can you elaborate? What about your posts can be more easily explained by town trying to solve?

[Passenger]

I townread Passenger

Congrats, you have now ensured your survival to endgame.

(I'm half-joking, you may be right for all I know, it feels a little presumptive to me though)

Let me get this straight. furtive’s townread on me is presumptive, but your team solve with me in it is not presumptive?

You aren't in my team solve. *snap snap* sharpen up.

I was definitely in your team solve when you made that post.

[Passenger]

OK, did post 74 change your read?

What a useless fucking question.

Ah, psychoanalysis...not my favorite but what can you do?

What makes you assume Passenger is telling the truth?

No, this is a useless question. What possible reason would I have to lie about that?

TMI Flavia is Town IMO

In what universe is this TMI? I called out your BS and now you’re just repeating that I’m scum without a leg to stand on.

[Passenger]

Oh fuck holy post limit

Spoiler:

Breaking down this interaction:

Post 1

Kokabiel says Marci’s vote on her is scummy.
Kokabiel says Marci asking Frogster to join the wagon is towny for Frogster.
Kokabiel says DeasVail inviting himself onto the wagon is scummy for DeasVail.

Post 2

Frogster asks why DeasVail is scummier than him, because they did the same thing.
Frogster says that Kokabiel is trying to start a TvT fight between DeasVail and Johnny

Post 3

Kokabiel asks Frogster why he claims that she faked her evaluation.
Kokabiel asks Frogster why he never asked Marci why she faked her read on her.

Post 4

Frogster asks Kokabiel why he would ask Marci why she voted Kokabiel.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why DeasVail inviting himself on the wagon is scummy.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she disagrees with Johnny’s case on DeasVail.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she is asking him questions.

My Analysis:

Kokabiel scumreads Marci because Marci’s vote on her was a naked vote with no explanation. This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Frogster does not understand both Kokabiel’s premise and her logic, and thinks she must be trying to start a fight between DeasVail and Johnny. This point is invalid because her premise is wrong but NAI and her logic is correct. Frogster is scummy for this post because he assumes that because he doesn’t understand something, it must be scummy. If he was trying to engage with her in good faith he would have waited for her answer.

Kokabiel correctly points out Frogster’s leap of “I don’t understand” to “this is scum.” Frogster responds by asking Kokabiel questions she has already answered and then he asks her what she intends to achieve by asking him questions. Frogster also says that he will always scumread things he doesn’t understand.

By this point, Frogster has conceded he engaged in scummy behavior, and all of his reasons for Kokabiel being scum are invalid because of that.
VOTE: Frogster

TMI Kookaburra is Town.

Sort of why I actually think unfortunately, frogsterking is more likely town here.

Vote Passenger then if you are also Town. Passenger was white knighting you and Kookaburra.

You say here that I was white-knighting Kokabiel and Flavia… but you also said earlier

that those exact posts

were me chainsawing my partners. Pick one.

[Passenger]

Town (most to least): The Bombay, Frogsterking, Passenger, DeasVail, JohnnyFarrar, Herta, Flavia, PenguinPower

Therefore a POE of 5:
Andres - done nothing really
Bell - feels a bit sus like I said earlier
Kokabiel - I don't really like 218, seems to have scum mindset on the brain talking about me 'pocketing' The Bombay and then goes and says 'I really like Passenger because he is always engaging and is thinking about stuff from multiple angles' but yeah hmm
NYM - done nothing, don't like the vote on Flavia which was unexplained. I think Flavia seems quite natural so far.
Star Power - done nothing. I don't really think their opening was scummy but just lack of posting so in the poe.

This is just a lazy readlist. furtive’s townreads are the players who have posted the most, the scumreads are the players who have posted the least. Players like Herta and PenguinPower have done about as much as all the players who haven’t posted, yet they’re outside of the PoE.

[Passenger]

I'm not answering any questions from useless baggage anymore so Tell me if you want a claim
Peace out till i see something scummy or a question from someone who actually is doing stuff.

This strongly reads as scum trying to AtE rather than genuinely annoyed town. Kokabiel asks if anyone wants her to claim, but the rest of her recent posts don’t give off a vibe of annoyance or anger.

[Passenger]

Frog, if you are getting the feeling that Flavia is scummy, while also getting the feeling that she feels isolated. Why is your conclusion "she is the most active groupcum" and not "she seems like 3p"?

Because what I pointed out in my big post are groupscum tells. I think 3rd parties read more like Townies who are underperforming.

I townread Passenger

Congrats, you have now ensured your survival to endgame.

(I'm half-joking, you may be right for all I know, it feels a little presumptive to me though)

Let me get this straight. furtive’s townread on me is presumptive, but your team solve with me in it is not presumptive?

You aren't in my team solve. *snap snap* sharpen up.

I was definitely in your team solve when you made that post.

Touché.

Ever heard of this? https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29

Yes you have, because you just posted about it saying Flavia was doing it.

[Passenger]

Town (most to least): The Bombay, Frogsterking, Passenger, DeasVail, JohnnyFarrar, Herta, Flavia, PenguinPower

Therefore a POE of 5:
Andres - done nothing really
Bell - feels a bit sus like I said earlier
Kokabiel - I don't really like 218, seems to have scum mindset on the brain talking about me 'pocketing' The Bombay and then goes and says 'I really like Passenger because he is always engaging and is thinking about stuff from multiple angles' but yeah hmm
NYM - done nothing, don't like the vote on Flavia which was unexplained. I think Flavia seems quite natural so far.
Star Power - done nothing. I don't really think their opening was scummy but just lack of posting so in the poe.

This is just a lazy readlist. furtive’s townreads are the players who have posted the most, the scumreads are the players who have posted the least. Players like Herta and PenguinPower have done about as much as all the players who haven’t posted, yet they’re outside of the PoE.

So you accuse me of going off post count, then immediately show that I haven't done that with counterexamples.

No? Penguin and Herta had posted a decent amount, but 90% of it was fluff that is not enough to warrant
a pass. The exception is Kokabiel, but she was being heavily pushed by Frogster. In fact, the only trace of original thought is your scumread on Bell.

[Passenger]

I townread Passenger

Congrats, you have now ensured your survival to endgame.

(I'm half-joking, you may be right for all I know, it feels a little presumptive to me though)

Let me get this straight. furtive’s townread on me is presumptive, but your team solve with me in it is not presumptive?

You aren't in my team solve. *snap snap* sharpen up.

I was definitely in your team solve when you made that post.

This is the scum tell by the way.

My scumtell is me stating an objective fact?

[Passenger]

Frog: “this passenger guy is mafia please vote him because i was right about scum in this random previous game so i’m always right”
Town: *vote’s elsewhere*
Frog:

[Passenger]

The fact that DeasVail posted about his inability to solve. This shows that DeasVail is scum concerned whether people believe he is solving or not. Statistically this has proven to be a weak but >rand tell.

This is another scum tell I missed. Passeger wants to be percieved as reasonable.

I want to be perceived as reasonable because I stated an objective, statistical fact?

[Passenger]

I was white-knighting Kokabiel and Flavia… but you also said earlier

Nah my read trajectory on you makes sense, re-evaluating is Townie and being too consistent is a scum tell. My read changed on you because I'm uninformed so it takes me longer than you to figure out what's going on. Like I said, this is really vanilla BnB scum whining your putting out, I need something spicier if I'm expected to pay attention to your complaints.

Does your read trajectory on me make sense? Earlier, you claimed that I was scum for chainsawing my partners Kokabiel and Flavia. Your read on me never changed, but your reads on Kokabiel and Flavia changed independently of my interactions with them. However, your read on my interactions with Kokabiel and Flavia never changed. You’re operating from the assumption that I am scum without actually analyzing the interactions between me, Kokabiel, and Flavia.

[Passenger]

re-evaluating is Townie and being too consistent is a scum tell.

For the record, having reads that make no sense is also a scum tell, and your vanity wagon on me makes no sense unless you already knew Flavia and Kookaburra were Town at the time I started pushing them.

You say that my vanity wagon on you makes no sense unless I know that Flavia and Kokabiel are town, but you don’t even bother to analyze why I voted you, you just go off on an arbitrary tangent about how I must be scum because I say Kokabiel is bull.

[Passenger]

OK, so, less confusing.

Furtive townreads Passenger, you say they might be right about them being town but might be a bit presumptive, then you post a list of people that were clear cuz I was town, including Passenger (I believe this is the team solve they were talking about). Then they ask basically why you said fugitive view is presumptive but they were in your town reads.

You had a whole case on me, why was this interaction more significant.

1) I have a whole case on Passenger as well I'm procrastinating posting which is even better than the one I had on you.

2) I think Dease is Town this game and is a very competent player so I'm willing to rethink my read on you.

3) If I work under the assumption that you and Kookaburra are Town, that means I would expect scum to be pushing a vanity wagon and not taking an active role in deciding whether Flavia or Kookaburra is the D1 lim. I looked through Passenger's ISO and saw that not only were their main two targets myself and Dease, they are currently pushing a nonsense scum read on me and interacted with both you and Kookaburra as though they already know you two are Town very early in the day.

You are wrong about the solve Passenger was talking about by the way, they are reacting to a solve I posted earlier where I said they mightbe scum with you

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko

.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

I also was clearly FoSing Passenger in my post addressed to furtive, just expressing some uncertainty about it.

Part of the reason I removed Passenger from my third team solve is because I don't think you and Passenger are aligned.

The fact that Passenger is still pushing me partlybecause I included them in an outdated team solve is very survivalistic and behavior I have seen as more likely to come from scum than Town.

I’m not pushing you because I was in an outdated team solve of yours, I’m pushing you because of your shitty case on me and obvious contradictions. The outdated teamsolve is slightly related but not the base of my push on you at all and you framing it that way is arguing in bad faith.

[Passenger]

OK, so, less confusing.

Furtive townreads Passenger, you say they might be right about them being town but might be a bit presumptive, then you post a list of people that were clear cuz I was town, including Passenger (I believe this is the team solve they were talking about). Then they ask basically why you said fugitive view is presumptive but they were in your town reads.

You had a whole case on me, why was this interaction more significant.

1) I have a whole case on Passenger as well I'm procrastinating posting which is even better than the one I had on you.

2) I think Dease is Town this game and is a very competent player so I'm willing to rethink my read on you.

3) If I work under the assumption that you and Kookaburra are Town, that means I would expect scum to be pushing a vanity wagon and not taking an active role in deciding whether Flavia or Kookaburra is the D1 lim. I looked through Passenger's ISO and saw that not only were their main two targets myself and Dease, they are currently pushing a nonsense scum read on me and interacted with both you and Kookaburra as though they already know you two are Town very early in the day.

4) your defense in 213 is significantly better (in that it is more likely to come from Town) than Passenger's in 273 and 274

5) I value my case on Passenger more than you because of this timeline below:

#1 I out my initial team solve here

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

#2 I post a huge case, realizing in the process Passenger is unlikely to be aligned with Flavia.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Flavia

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

VOTE: Star Power

I hate shining lights. Always being deceptive.

Shading a slot which seems likely to become unpopular. Projection.

Hello! To make up for all the votes in Frog’s post, I will not vote.

Letting him take over all the votes? Opposition politician role?

A useless question in an effort to appear solvey. Low key pocketing vibes toward Dease.

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

I am kind of thinking that StarPower appearing to not know that there is a 3rd party makes them more likely to be town.

Seriously doubt that the actual 3rd party would not be too self-conscious to frame it that way, so imo town>scum>3rd party

But mafia can't collaborate with the 3rd party in this game. Everybody losses. So, makes sense mafia would be as interested in this 3rd party as the town. Or not that interested yet as the game just started.

Insight into Flavia's point of view: they think a lot about scum win con and not much else.

I'm trying to make posts made so far AI in my head, but I'm not really coming up with much.

Must be scum out of ideas.

This is also what I thought. It seems like DeasVail is playing from the point of view of someone who is looking over posts with a checklist of tells to appear useful, rather than engaging in actual solving.

VOTE: DeasVail

Maybe but why them specifically over hmm...basically everyone else, excluding Bombay and maybe Bell. Rest of us weren't exactly overtly solving stuff.

PS: I'm taking frogsterking's readings on page 1 as a joke, not them being serious

Low key pocketing vibes toward Dease, pointlessly listing players in the game (seemingly...), TMI into the gamestate.

As for their comment about me:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29

Two scumtells in one. Discrediting a player who is aggressively solving as well as discrediting an argument against them by claiming it to be a joke. Empirically I can also say that no Town has ever reacted to me by assuming that I'm "joking" and on more than one occasion scum have pretended to interpret me to be "joking." Trolling, bizarre, weird, off-color, scum, "toxic" etc. are all responses I've recieved from Town, "joking" is not one of them. I can't provide direct evidence at this time as per site rules so you will have to take my word for it that to claim my first post was a joke is an example of an unnatural thought process which is likely to come from scum.

This feels like you misunderstood. My point was that the mafia would be

more

cognizant of the existence of the 3rd party, while StarPower's post reads like someone who was not thinking about the existence of a 3rd party.

Therefore, town being the most likely alignment to make such a post.

Not the basis for a strong read, but as far as page 1 posts go, it is nice to have an inkling on someone

~Luke

OK, I see where you come from.

The difference between DeasVail and the people who have been posting but not DeasVail is two things.

1. The fact that DeasVail posted about his inability to solve. This shows that DeasVail is scum concerned whether people believe he is solving or not. Statistically this has proven to be a weak but >rand tell.

2. The content of his post. He says that he’s trying to make posts AI in his head, but can’t. Scum when out of ideas tries to do exactly that: look at posts and see if they follow a list of common tells, rather than organically notice a post and realize that it follows a tell, which town does. I suppose the gist of what I’m saying is that DeasVail is scum trying to find reads by creating thought processes, meanwhile town finds reads not by creating thought processes but by simply having those thought processes.

OK, did post 74 change your read?

Ah, psychoanalysis...not my favorite but what can you do?

Low key pocketing vibes toward Bombay as well as Passenger and more shading the scary Resident who is trying to solve the game. Very useless question directed toward Passenger about 74, remember "a question a day keeps the tracker away." https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B0.5.29

If you don't believe me, keep reading this post and tell me how much you think Flavia thought about the answer to their question about 74.

Well, might seem so but ignoring isn't the best word to use. Reserving judgement till I can come to a conclusion.

You think so? Thing is Bell made one statement about DeasVail being scum out of ideas. Passenger asks a question about what means to make AI posts in their head. Next post, votes expanding on Bell's reasoning. I'm actually interested how things...change. If they do.

See no reason to lie about you liking psychoanalysis. I mean, lots of people do. Just not my liking...all those associations. Never believed in them

Taking a reserved and cautious approach is a scum tell for most players. Quibbling over semantics is scummy. Summarizing what happened in the game (and reminding us that there are other players in the game by listing their names again) without any attempt to parse for alignment information is scummy. The bit at the end about psychoanalysis is pointless jabber which seems pockety toward anyone willing to listen.

On page 5? Sorry, I'm not clairvoyant, mafia or really a good player. You'll get what I can think of now:

The Bombay: liked post 44, though I can really say I agree with that logics. Seems solvey. Maybe, maybe town.
Oh, I think the whole vote stuff about that vote is just playing Freud. Starting a random wagon might not be very efficient but it seems as much as I've read on this site to be a very used tactic.

Kokabiel: post 47- hmm, maybe they believe they've seen something but the way I see "a cigar is just a cigar". Don't get what scum-DeasVale would get from asking to join a vote that as far as I can tell is pretty much random. Basically, they either are trying to solve but I am not getting the logic or trying to find a reason to vote someone. Not sure yet.

Andresvmp- Post 94 has some logic. Granted, pretty non-committed but it was was page 3 or 4.

Furtiveglance- person who claimed miller. Suppose for the moment we can't disbelieve this claim.

DeasVail- so, I guess he tries to find town. Which is logical. No idea why you'd have a list so early. You might be contagious.

You- post 11. Reason I took it as a joke is that well, IMHO, anyone who can say who is mafia/town based on 1 post is either mafia or should work for FBI. Post 66- you really think two experienced mafia players couldn't make that interaction? Other than intuition why it couldn't be SvS? Post 87 is logical question, though didn't see Johnny post any reason to be suspicious of DeasVail? rest is mostly you knowing the whole mafia team is stuff and being overly assertive.

Passenger- told you why I found some posts...worrying.

The rest are the rest. No real idea.

My alleged "psychoanalysis" indicates Flavia is the type of player who doesn't feel confident in faking SvS interactions or making up reads on scum buddies. I think almost all of the above are Town, if not all. I also don't think Flavia has interacted with their partners very much if at all. My "pychoanalysis" extends deeper however; Flavia

feels isolated

and Flavia

is the most active groupscum.

Also, if you want to know what a Town response looks like, try this:

Softclaim present.

VOTE: johnny

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

I'm gonna need coffee.

Time's up, Herta. I need you to stop thread flaking and write a reads list now.

Rude.

Marci is town.

or sometimes this:

I'm waiting to hear more from you about your own reads, Rad.

Sure. I'm leaning town on a few people. Off The Hook. PenguinPower. Pooky. Nothing specific about them, just some early vibes that I don't weigh too heavily but they are there.

Lean scum on The toad. I think 156 is reading too deeply into my question. I could only come up with 2 good explanations as noted in 167, and I'm leaning towards the scum read.

No other real reads atm. I think Lukewarm has given enough good content to come to a reasonable early read, which I might go do now. Most people are still joking around so it's hard to tell what's what yet. Also this is such a huge game I don't even know how to approach it. I think the wagon on Ceph was interesting but not sure what I can get out of it yet.

I'd stake my life on the fact that #115 from Flavia is horseshit which was improvised on the spot.

Random or serious?

"A question a day keeps the tracker away." Remember to continue reading for Flavia's follow up to their questions in 103 and 133.

This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Do you agree with that logic or are you saying is making sense based on Kokabiel logic. Cuz I'm not seeing it.


Also, the miller claim. Never played with one. But from what I've read, it's basically a claim that's usually treated as "consider it true for the moment cuz we can't really disprove it". That's why I don't see much in Bell's reaction- said that it could be totally true, but could come from either town or mafia who played with a miller.

"A question a day keeps the tracker away." Now we have a question in 160 to stay mindful for the follow up as well. Here they go bringing up Bell again. Why? Why do they keep reminding us Bell exists in the game? Do they think his posts can be viewed as scummy and they're hoping we will all suddenly notice and miselim him?

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

If it becomes a theme- maybe I should figure it out what this partner equity is.

And you've figured it out I'm mafia all the while back. Your confidence is impressive...though very wrong. But I'm really curious...how did NYM got into that team. And when did we abandon threat control when I posted very little and NYM posted- exactly once.

Low key pocketing vibes toward me, mistaking me for a mere frog who will flip their read because I got a little attention (I am not a frog, I am both a frogster and a king.) Playing dumb pretending not to understand the concept partner equity refers to even though it's immediately obvious that it refers to associative tells is an example of a unnatural thought process which is more likely from scum.

I have some empirical evidence 162 is more likely to come from scum which I can share as per site rules but I am getting burnt out so I will save the rest of my analysis of this post, the one below and my conclusion for another time.

It makes it feel like she wanted to make a comment on *something*
~Luke

That part might be true. I try to talk more.

Maybe, but it was an observation related to my question to furtive.

Current discussion? Well, I am here: Kokabiel is convinced asking for votes on them is scum. Plus the whole inviting vs invited being a sign of town/mafia. Nope, don't agree with this logic but I don't think mafia would be so willing to put it all on that hill.

Frog- they made it clear they scumread me from the beginning. I was sincerely curious how they came to the conclusion the team is me/Passenger and the person who posted once.

#3 I clarify here:

So you can continue to wrongly push me and look stupid doing so, up to you. I can’t bus anyone because I’m town and if you knew a damn thing about my meta, you would know that I don’t have sr’s straight out of the gate in most cases.

I’m taking my fucking time because we have a post cap of only 125 posts with 3 heads. I had 250 in Happy Face and almost had 200 posts in under two rl days.

I will look at your Flavia case but going out of your way to piss me off when you’re apparently being pretty dense here because I once again repeat: I don’t make stuff like that up. Btw, I did check our discord and Mastina should be on tomorrow.

I already know you aren't group scum because of Flavia spew. The problem is you can still be Dictator. These players all get the Flavia-cleared groupscum stamp of approval:


Kokabiel
Dease,
Passenger,
N.Y.M
Bombay
Bell
Myself

This leads me to believe andres is scum with Flavia because:

1) this comment

Andresvmp- Post 94 has some logic. Granted, pretty non-committed but it was was page 3 or 4.

2) I have played with andres as both alignments and skipping a night after promising to be back is a red flag from andres

Anyway, I’m going to sleep. I’m back tomorrow.

3) andres matches the profile of a lurker slot leaving Flavia to feel isolated in her scum game.

So my current solve for group scum is Flavia/andres and one more player who both has less than eleven posts and isn't excluded in the list above. The players who meet both of these criteria are:

Herta
Furtive
Penguin
Starpower

Now if I sheep Nancy and Bell's Townread on Furtive, I assume Flavia isn't aligned with Star because of their first post, and I give some lenience to Herta because they clapped back at me in a Townie way when I demanded reads from them, that leaves me with this team solve:

Flavia/andres/Penguin

#4 Passenger, who is playing reactively and survivalistically, is concerned only with the fact their name appeared in a team solve all the way back at point #1

I townread Passenger

Congrats, you have now ensured your survival to endgame.

(I'm half-joking, you may be right for all I know, it feels a little presumptive to me though)

Let me get this straight. furtive’s townread on me is presumptive, but your team solve with me in it is not presumptive?

You aren't in my team solve. *snap snap* sharpen up.

I was definitely in your team solve when you made that post.

The above is a scumtell.

Bullshit. I was catching up, and I saw a post of yours (172) that looked scummy. I commented on it in 241,

but at that point I had not seen your points 2 or 3, only point 1.

Your case on me rests on the fact that I had seen points 2 and 3, and still reacted to point 1. Because I hadn’t seen points 2 and 3, your logic is invalid.

[Passenger]

OK, so, less confusing.

Furtive townreads Passenger, you say they might be right about them being town but might be a bit presumptive, then you post a list of people that were clear cuz I was town, including Passenger (I believe this is the team solve they were talking about). Then they ask basically why you said fugitive view is presumptive but they were in your town reads.

You had a whole case on me, why was this interaction more significant.

1) I have a whole case on Passenger as well I'm procrastinating posting which is even better than the one I had on you.

2) I think Dease is Town this game and is a very competent player so I'm willing to rethink my read on you.

3) If I work under the assumption that you and Kookaburra are Town, that means I would expect scum to be pushing a vanity wagon and not taking an active role in deciding whether Flavia or Kookaburra is the D1 lim. I looked through Passenger's ISO and saw that not only were their main two targets myself and Dease, they are currently pushing a nonsense scum read on me and interacted with both you and Kookaburra as though they already know you two are Town very early in the day.

You are wrong about the solve Passenger was talking about by the way, they are reacting to a solve I posted earlier where I said they mightbe scum with you

If partner equity is going to become a theme, I'd like to propose Passenger has partner equity with N.Y.M and Flavia. When players are hyper accurate (like I

sometimes

am on D1) it can force scum to make scumtells they wouldn't ordinarily make (like chainsawing.) I can link to you at least one completed game where scum were forced to react this way to me. 135 looks... unnatural to me? It pings me in a way Passenger's posting hasn't done yet. I feel there can be an element of projection in it where Passenger accuses me of approaching other slots in bad faith while they themselves manufacture a case by misrepresenting my motivations.

I'll admit Koko was a part of my team solve I mentioned earlier, but now with more information (from their wagon piling on) I feel their reaction to pressure is more indicative of a Resident who is wrongly accused.

Also yes I may as well out my team solve is N.Y.M/Flavia/Passenger, it was previously N.Y.M/Flavia/Koko

.

My opinion is that there is an element of Price's Law at play, where Flavia and N.Y.M are abandoning thread control and Passenger feels motivated to take up the reigns as a more active scum poster.

I'll wait a little bit longer before I get into my ideas about hunting for the Dictator.

I also was clearly FoSing Passenger in my post addressed to furtive, just expressing some uncertainty about it.

Part of the reason I removed Passenger from my third team solve is because I don't think you and Passenger are aligned.

The fact that Passenger is still pushing me partlybecause I included them in an outdated team solve is very survivalistic and behavior I have seen as more likely to come from scum than Town.

I’m not pushing you because I was in an outdated team solve of yours, I’m pushing you because of your shitty case on me and obvious contradictions. The outdated teamsolve is slightly related but not the base of my push on you at all and you framing it that way is arguing in bad faith.

Your push on Frogsterking is related to his push on you then?

Yes. I simply do not see a world in which his push is made in good faith.

[Passenger]

Spoiler:

Breaking down this interaction:

Post 1

Kokabiel says Marci’s vote on her is scummy.
Kokabiel says Marci asking Frogster to join the wagon is towny for Frogster.
Kokabiel says DeasVail inviting himself onto the wagon is scummy for DeasVail.

Post 2

Frogster asks why DeasVail is scummier than him, because they did the same thing.
Frogster says that Kokabiel is trying to start a TvT fight between DeasVail and Johnny

Post 3

Kokabiel asks Frogster why he claims that she faked her evaluation.
Kokabiel asks Frogster why he never asked Marci why she faked her read on her.

Post 4

Frogster asks Kokabiel why he would ask Marci why she voted Kokabiel.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why DeasVail inviting himself on the wagon is scummy.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she disagrees with Johnny’s case on DeasVail.
Frogster asks Kokabiel why she is asking him questions.

My Analysis:

Kokabiel scumreads Marci because Marci’s vote on her was a naked vote with no explanation. This doesn’t make sense, because Marci’s vote was clearly RVS. From this incorrect premise Kokabiel comes to the logical conclusion that Frogster is town and DeasVail is scum. Her assumption that Marci is scum for her naked vote is an NAI overreaction.

Frogster does not understand both Kokabiel’s premise and her logic, and thinks she must be trying to start a fight between DeasVail and Johnny. This point is invalid because her premise is wrong but NAI and her logic is correct. Frogster is scummy for this post because he assumes that because he doesn’t understand something, it must be scummy. If he was trying to engage with her in good faith he would have waited for her answer.

Kokabiel correctly points out Frogster’s leap of “I don’t understand” to “this is scum.” Frogster responds by asking Kokabiel questions she has already answered and then he asks her what she intends to achieve by asking him questions. Frogster also says that he will always scumread things he doesn’t understand.

By this point, Frogster has conceded he engaged in scummy behavior, and all of his reasons for Kokabiel being scum are invalid because of that.
VOTE: Frogster

I dislike this post, Passenger seems to be basically treating Frogs like he’s town but nevertheless reaching the conclusion that he’s scum. This analysis makes no sense. and the logical conclusion from this premise logically ought to be Frogs is incorrect in his analysis as opposed to being scum.

VOTE: Passenger

~Nancy

1. How am I treating Frogster like he’s town?
2. You’re missing the point of that post. I thought that Frogster’s analysis was incorrect, but I didn’t vote him because of that. I voted him because he voted Kokabiel for scummy reasons.

[Passenger]

Pages have happened

[Passenger]

I wasn't expecting much but damn do i still feel disappointed by the lack of concrete reads.
Apart from Catguin who i'm 90% certain is scum, I'm not that confident with the other scum reads.
Lack of content is everywhere so it's not even a scumtell.

Penguin is scum, he hasn’t produced any content, and lack of content isn’t a scumtell?

[Passenger]

There’s really nothing one can scumread Penguin on because his ISO has been devoid of content. This is especially bad because there’s no mention of Penguin in Kokabiel’s ISO at all before this post.

[Passenger]

Wait ever mind ignore me

[Passenger]

Telling you to share oxygen with the rest of the player list instead of hoarding it all for yourself isn't really shade.

I want Koka to go through because I scum read them. Passenger is fine too, I just scum read Koka more.

Considering I've been in the game for less then 24 hours, I think my ISO is pretty good.

Your turn.

PE: You really shouldn't waste your posts just to puff out your chest like that.

I already said shading your Townreads like you replaced into a scum slot doesn't make you look Townie. It took you several minutes to write #432 and line by line you:

Shaded your "Townread" (who is pushing your "scumread" Passenger.)

Made an awful excuse for why you are actively attempting to derail one of your scumread wagons in favor of the other.

Shaded your "Townread" again who is pushing Passenger etc.

Shaded your "Townread" again who is pushing Passenger etc.

Nope, your time is running out faster than my posts and I don't think you really believe in these reads (or you can even write convincing scum posts apparently) :

Off the cuff reads in no particular order:

TOWN
Bell
Bombay
DV
Furtive
Johnny
Frog
Herta

NULL
NYM
Penguin
Flavia

DIDN'T REALIZE THEY WERE IN THIS GAME
Andres

SCUM
Koka
Passenger

Roden definitely comes off as towny in this interaction. Roden’s posts are consistent with annoyed town making logical points against a player who has decided on a conclusion first.

[Passenger]

I mean okay fine, let's try and figure out what Penguin and Dease are thinking.

putting self in Penguin/Dease shoes

A Moonlight Dancer is a player who can have the fact that they are a Moonlight Dancer mod-confirmed.

A Moonlight Dancer may be of any alignment

Advocate
A person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.
"he was an untiring advocate of economic reform"

Hello everyone! I am here, ready to be a shining light against the delegation!

VOTE: DeasVail

JUST the delegation?

Setup

General Information

• This is a Large Theme themed around a group of militants and a government operative.
  
• The
  Residents
  are the uninformed majority and the
  Delegation
  is the informed minority.
  
• There is a
  Government
  operative who is
  Antisocial
  . If they win, all other players will lose.
  
• The setup does not meet
  Normal Guidelines
  but has no
  Bastard
  elements.
  
• Multitasking
  and
  Daytalk
  is enabled by default.

Probably this?

You guys think the Advocate thing is a red herring and Kookaburra can be or is likely to be the Dictator or w.e?

Okay fine I was wrong to dismiss your read about Kookaburra and claim they are not able to be the Dictator.

I

can

see it AND they sure as hell aren't groupscum. The groupscum are at least Passenger/Roden if not Bell as well. I also think Flavia is worth a look

later

to go for a Dictator hit.

The Townblock is on Passenger (Frog/furtive/andres/ NYM) and the Kookaburra wagon is split between groupscum (Roden/Bell) and Town (Dease/Penguin.)

It makes more sense to me now why you two insist on voting Kookaburra, but I still don't think it's a bright idea. I think Kookaburra is 1% groupscum, 15% dictator and ~84% angry Townslot with a shitty role. Maybe my read is off or w.e and Kookaburra is more likely to be the Dictator, w.e, they still have a decent chance to be an angry Resident with a poop role getting piled on D1.

The priority in these games is usually to hit groupscum first and I'm telling you again that Kookaburra is not an informed minority; if you're lucky they are the Dictator, and if they are the Dictator you can be sure they are screwed this game. Please do not lose sight of the Townblock piling onto Passenger.

The townblock piling on to Passenger. The townblock consisting of Andres, who has a total of 16 posts, furtive, who claimed miller and has done nothing since, N.Y.M., and you.

[Passenger]

You still think that even though Kokabiel is repeatedly misleading people for no tangible benefit?

I’ve seen inexperienced town players make very strange plays that don’t entirely make sense when they had a powerful role.

[Passenger]

I have a weird theory in my mind about who Kokabiel’s main is and if I’m right, they’re probably scum. Either way I still think Kokabiel is scum.

[Passenger]

I’m gonna look over Frogster again tonight and hopefully be able to engage with him more tomorrow. People are saying he’s towny but I’m not seeing that at all. I think it’s possible that I might be tunneled.

[Passenger]

UNVOTE: Frogster
I think that Kokabiel’s emotion is genuine but I also don’t think that’s town indicative.

[Passenger]

MT is almost certainly 3p here. She feels very different to Large Normal 241 and I don’t like the way she’s defending Roden. I also agree with Bombay’s case on how it’s odd that she and Frogster are approaching the game from the same place.

[Passenger]

EBWOP: MT’s attack on Roden.

Tired brain.

[Passenger]

I don't think Kokabiel was the right choice really, Roden seemed to be in the middle of 2 1v1s but I wasn't around to say that so my bad.

ngl, 933 read to me like post hammer scum claim, so I will not be accepting your apology at this time lol

It’s definitely a strange reaction, considering how upset and angry she had been acting prior to that.

~Nancy

I think it is probably a scum claim. I don’t really have strong scumreads rn except for MT who I think is 3p.