House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Firebringer]

FOUR: CAPITAL OFFENSES
Do not quote your Role PM or any private communication (either real or fabricated) with the moderator, co-moderator, or backup-moderator. Paraphrasing your Role PM is acceptable.

mod can't tell me what to do!

below is from pms with the mod

hi firebringer its me pookythemagicalbear, and i am a poop head. welcome to the game!

dare u to mod kill me!

[Firebringer]

Firebringer.

yo

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

u trying to start a fight page 1. this is how ur gonna start a fight page 1 lol

[Firebringer]

ohhh wait.....

Vote for the player you wish to crown King. With twenty one players alive, eleven votes will select a monarch - plurality rules will apply at the deadline.

@Mod what if i don't believe in a monarchy?

[Firebringer]

Lord of the Seven Kingdoms

You must select players to join your small council which will aid you in ruling the realm. Players may not refuse appointments to the small council.

Ohhhhhh

Will this make me a warden?!?!?! Dibs on warden of south.
Also willing to vote anyone who names me the warden of south and master of coin

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Rhaenyra
only a targaryen can lead us

[Firebringer]

I don't want to be king, I'm trash as town.

Same

[Firebringer]

This is why i want a middle management position.
Warden of the South and Master of Coin.
How bad can i fuck those things up

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Rhaenyra
only a targaryen can lead us

You do know whose alt I am, right?

Anyway.

VOTE: mastina

mastina should be King.

Also, Firebringer's vote is weird, as Firebringer would never vote me for this. Or rather, he'll never entrust me with this kinda power.

I had no idea. I am guessing your Nancy right now. Could be wrong

[Firebringer]

Serious question, if this is the house of the dragon... where is the dragon?

i am the dragon

[Firebringer]

I'm not sure that he's actually reliable when it comes to scumhunting.

never before have i been so offended by something i one hundred percent agree with

anyway, obligatory mech shit: i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that we should not be confined to the three choices that mastina proposed. we should also focus on electing someone we already think is town rather than someone who is "easy to read". it seems to me that the "execution" mechanic is net neutral in town hands but potentially scumsiding in scum hands. assuming the king isn't a gamethrower, it's more important that town hold it.

also a townie town king would potentially make it easier to determine whether there's scum in the kingsguard.

VOTE: firebringer

i feel a vibe here.

i refuse to believe u vibe me as town already.
what a bad vote

[Firebringer]

This is why i want a middle management position.
Warden of the South and Master of Coin.
How bad can i fuck those things up

What do you think of Andante's argument saying scum are more likely to want those spots?

i haven't read any of andante posts yet.
Probably not that most scum players wouldn't want the king slot because of amount of attention it brings but would prefer to be in the inner core of whoever king trusts.

[Firebringer]

So junkochan comes in hot and ready to fight people, feel like actually tried to set Rhaenya/Nancy off. Which is strange from what i know of Junko, probably not a scum move?
Datisi vibing me as town sus too. I haven't done shit and im in shitposting mood.
Andante is being andante nothing to worry about here. Town
Rhaenya even if Nancy would make good queen because would bring the most chaos to the game and it will feel like a true game of thrones game. So my vote stays for now.

Also as far as being in that grouping, i will vote anyone who promises me that position of Warden of South or master of coin, don't care if im not trusted. Do not need to give my thoughts any mind. I will simply sit to the south piling up cash and watch the seven kingdoms tear each up other apart while I pick up the pieces at the end. #BestWaytoPlayGameofThrones

[Firebringer]

watching house of the dragon for first time now. will post my reviews of each episode.

[Firebringer]

yeah idk why i thought that i would be able to get a read out of fire's reaction to my vote there (before you ask: yes, i did have a slight town vibe from him as well, shut up)

i am still slightly vibing fire town but i am watching

kind of crazy u would think u could reaction test me.

Spoiler: Review of Ep1

Okay so episode was pretty decent, if you want a tldr i would give it 7/10 or maybe even 8/10.
things good:
> had pretty good pacing
>felt it handled introducing the characters pretty well and giving a good look at the situation at present
> Rhaneys seems like a fun character to explore
> i like the hand of the king, has a very Tywin sort of feel to him at points without coming across as a massive dick.

bad:
>maybe pitching itself too much in just mimicking first ep 1 game of thrones? idk succession crisis always kind of thing with show and knew it was here. the more i think about it i think there were more differences.
>king viserys kind of sucks. He doesn't seem like a ruler who would last 10 years.
>for all the internal conflicts that the show promises in intro it feels very backseat to the brother conflicts that weren't even mentioned till partway into it. think the brother dude totally would kill his brother, surprised didn't happen. Probably foreshadowing that he will.

what i expect to happen in next episode:
> conflicts with the brothers heat up, maybe one of them is dead or a rebellion in force.
> king gets remaried maybe has a son or hints at it. Think that might be too fast paced will see.
> rhaenys adapts to her new position as heir will see her doing more than sideline shit now she has a stake in things.

[Firebringer]

dats why u focused on professor shit posts and them positng posts.

also mod didn't answer my question. what a bad mod.

time for review of ep2-5.

Spoiler: EP2-5

Okay so i wont be doing a review of each episode because honestly since i didn't stop and take any notes these now all feel blended together even though a lot of shit has happened.
tldr if giving individual ranking this last ep was def 5 but 2 and 3 are still in the 7-8 zone. With the fourth being like a 6 i guess or 5.

so first lets revisit my speculationes
> conflicts with the brothers heat up, maybe one of them is dead or a rebellion in force. [Sort of back and forth on this. No rebellion is formed but shit if the king doesn't put up with a lot and the brother actually goes back and forth between helpful and just ruining it all for him. I guess he has the hots for rhaenerys or something half of his actions are just like self sabotage like he doesn't even care about what happens, he is like a gladfy.
> king gets remaried maybe has a son or hints at it. Think that might be too fast paced will see. [This happened and as fast it did with a new son and shit by ep 3. This really didn't deviate from what i expected seeing.]
> rhaenys adapts to her new position as heir will see her doing more than sideline shit now she has a stake in things. [So far its been divided, she was more proactive in ep 2 and then just became a complaining brat from like ep3 -5 and truly i don't see her being a good ruler from how she handles anything. Disappointed in her.

Good and bad now i guess - lets go with good.
-I am invested enough to want to keep watching the show even though i think its gone down in quality
-im starting to like the king as he seems the only reasonable person on the show even though each and every decision, he seems to make is gonna blow up in his face and you can see it miles away. He needs to sit his daughter down and explain the situation more clearly and her defiance isn't going to make things better. He should have made it much clearer in the beginning he had no intentions of ever stripping her status away if he had a son to literally EVERYONE. Keep repeating it. Forever. Or just toss her aside and make her marry someone else, he lets his family run ruff shot of him too much.
-i feel mixed on daimon but his battle scenes were pretty legit. I kind of enjoy how he gets to push everyones buttons and get away with it even though i think its ridiculous.
-dragon riders always cool



Bad:
-most of the conflicts characters have seem rather mundane and silly. relationship strain between rhaenerys and alicent seems silly and Rhaenerys has become unlikeable due to her attitude completely being a brat. I don't even know why she wants to rule besides out of just wanting to be the son her father wanted, but she seems intent to ruin her relationship with her father.
--daimon with rhaenerys is fucking creepy and they both seem insane when together. They seem like they would blow up the world if they were a thing.
--most of the other houses seem extremely underdeveloped, no love of the north in this show. Lannister are here as just vain bastards which is expected but 90% of the conflicts in this show is targaryen inner trumoil which is i guess advertised but i would think other houses play bigger support then just it being 95% about them. Hightower best house right now and its literally Otto carrying and now he is sidelined.
-i feel this show would be enchanced with scenes on whats going on up north at the wall even though nothing is supposed to be happening. Maybe i just liked the wall side show from game of thrones alot. I need more breaks from boring politicking and the war with free cities was too short and undeveloped other than to highlight the growing division of the targaryens.


future predictions:
>next episode king is dead. It been foreshadowed for like an episode and half.
> rhaenerys has a bastard son
> might get more development of alicent kids? [kind of have to at some point either this or episode after] Setup the future conflict between rhaenerys and the 'legitimate' heirs that has been talked about for like this and last episode.

That ends firebringer reviews tune in next time when i finish ep6-8. I do not think i will finish the season by end of tonight.

[Firebringer]

it's possible I'm just scum reading a personality / writing style re: Adante

I'm wary to just town bin someone because they are polarized. polarized players are rarely polarized because they truly have no ability to play scum, they just choose not to. historically many polarized players have decided to break their near trust-tell meta on a whim. it happened with creature and it happened with NSG

that being said, that's mostly paranoia talking and I think my reasons to scum read Adante are probably less good than I thought they were

i don't think ur reading motivations. i think ur trying to understand mindset and failing at that are going for scum mindset by default.

[Firebringer]

There is a reason I didn't bother coming into this game to make allies or gather people to trust me, and a reason why I'm making a townblock that doesn't include me.

Putting me as king either kills me early or makes people so paranoid we get polarized on me. I don't want that. I'd much much rather be someone's kingsguard or small council and help them solve at this point.

people gonna be paranoid of you regardless.
u attempting to be like "ohh i don't want the power because u will get paranoid of me" only makes me think ur deliberately trying to play up how cooperative u are to make it seem like ur on town side. Which is again what u would call paranoia if ur town.

I swear u hype up the paranoia people have on u that it becomes a self fufilling prophecy.

[Firebringer]

I also had a thought about reverse popcorning into a king?

Like, we agree on 1 person (or I can volunteer IDGAF) to not be king, and then they select someone who won't be king, and so on until someone picks the last person not to be king and there's one person unpicked, and then we vote them for King.

It has the advantage of forcing players to show their hands about who they trust least, and has very good odds to produce a town king.

lets just play the game and not be dictating how everything goes down

[Firebringer]

no but that's a serious question

why are you so confident about a player who markets themselves as being chaotic and unreadable, Junko?

I actually dislike his gameplay a lot, we got heated up in a game once and I never forgot about it, but #150 felt like he actually recognized my town play and brought it up, I think scum!firebringer would just ignore that or jump on scumreading me

u know its funny cause i don't remember this, and of all the people in this playerlist i would describe ur style as closest to mine.

[Firebringer]

I also don't love this post because it seems like quite a significant shift in tone and purpose from earlier posts like this:

we aren't allowed to agree friendo.

[Firebringer]

i really don't think worrying about picking the towniest of towns is all that big of deal yall making it out to be.
just picking in random we are more likely to pick town. I am really not concerned with scum stealing the king position and feel people who are such as LLD are over inflating the risk of it happening.

Really feels like LLD just wants to be kingmaker.

[Firebringer]

i have a hard time imagining the scum chat is filled with conspiracies to get one of them elected.
if anything they will steer it to town they know will make the worst choices.

[Firebringer]

like isn't that obvious? just based on the theme of the game. Its not about initially winning the crown its about maintaining it. the scum plan would obviously be give incompetents the crown so as to fracture the town and then pick up the pieces later and install one of their own maybe at the end once all the dust is settled.

Its pretty obviou game of thrones strat.

[Firebringer]

i have a hard time imagining the scum chat is filled with conspiracies to get one of them elected.
if anything they will steer it to town they know will make the worst choices.

There's no way thats true because they haven't suggested me yet.

you have datisi saying i would be a good king. JUST LOOK AT IT. THAT IS YOUR PROOF!

i really don't think worrying about picking the towniest of towns is all that big of deal yall making it out to be.
just picking in random we are more likely to pick town. I am really not concerned with scum stealing the king position and feel people who are such as LLD are over inflating the risk of it happening.

Really feels like LLD just wants to be kingmaker.

Ah, yes, the most dastardly deed of...

wanting the votes I want to happen to happen in a game about building trust and eliminating people you don't trust.

I'm sorry what was your point again, beyond the fact that I am, infact, playing mafia with the sake of trying to win?

except ur pretending u don't want power and u directly pushing for it indirectly. Maybe don't pretend ur not after the power and influence in the game if ur actions directly contradict it.

Might make u more trustworthy if u just not pretend ur not seeking to control the game and just flat out say it.

[Firebringer]

like isn't that obvious? just based on the theme of the game. Its not about initially winning the crown its about maintaining it. the scum plan would obviously be give incompetents the crown so as to fracture the town and then pick up the pieces later and install one of their own maybe at the end once all the dust is settled.

Its pretty obviou game of thrones strat.

And so the next layer of thought would be to be scum, take the crown and execute innocents while pretending you are, infact, good.

It's not that obvious on how you would play and having a town king is crucially important in this early stage.

im pretty sure my strat is the one scum takes 9/10. So yeah. I doubt ur high brain thought that installing one of their own so they take all the blame for killing townies is brilliant. its high risk little reward.

I am sure u would do it. But ur not most scum players.

[Firebringer]

actally you would probably kill one of ur own so as to throw peoples doubts on u aside.
But maybe even you would think town would see through this as paranoia eventually comes at u. Which again makes the most sense for why you don't want crown.

Actually either alignment u probably doesn't want crown. I don't know where my line of thinking is going with this.

[Firebringer]

Ehhh will come back to this if my LLD read develops anymore for smoking gun. Don't trust her.
Think her push for control here is more scummy than she lets on with this whole "we all try to control the game" like fucking no duh. U are directly pushing for control of the whole game not just for a bit of influence. But shea is right, that probably not a smoking gun of anything.

[Firebringer]

firebringer, do you have anyone else you want to give the crown to currently?

i already said at the beginning. I am giving my vote to anyone who promises me warden of the south and master of coin. I am sticking on current vote for the THEME reasons. No one has promised me anything. Its very disappointing.

Its almost like none of yall know how politics works.

[Firebringer]

since no one is directly campaigning and even though i would be a terrible king.
I will say if i am voted as King this is my council:

Me (King Firebringer first of his name)
Hand of the King - Thestatusquo
Master of Laws - Dannflor
Master of Ships - Lukewarm
Grand Maester - Datisi
Master of Coin - Andante
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard - Junkochan

I checked ops and it didn't even mention how many members are on the council. But it should have all those positions.

[Firebringer]

As your possibly unlikely future king. I also declare as part of my reign i shall never enact this power:

You may execute a player during the day - this will end the day and replace the normal voting mechanism - this ability can not be used on consecutive days.

A just an good king never overrules his subjects wishes. If i am to live a long and healthy life as ruler i need the support of all the lords and ladies and cannot be tyrannical. For that is just good pragmatic kingsmanship

[Firebringer]

As your possibly unlikely future king. I also declare as part of my reign i shall never enact this power:

You may execute a player during the day - this will end the day and replace the normal voting mechanism - this ability can not be used on consecutive days.

A just an good king never overrules his subjects wishes. If i am to live a long and healthy life as ruler i need the support of all the lords and ladies and cannot be tyrannical. For that is just good pragmatic kingsmanship

I’m going to put out a thought that I’m not sure makes a lot of sense, but here it goes anyway. I felt LLD was maybe Scum because they constantly seem to be trying to impose their views instead of interact with other people’s views. Reading their posts always gives me this feeling of someone who is convinced of something, and is constantly looking around for players that disagree so that they can bash them for it.

It’s how I am perceiving their interactions with say Firebringer in 415, 430, 435 and 437. But I’m also thinking - does this attitude make sense as Scum? Like I don’t think so. LLD definitely alienated me with their comments, and they seem intent on pushing Firebringer away. Their approach has caused more than a few players to actively say they don’t trust her, but this is clearly counter to what Scum would want to be doing. Like if I want my preferred choices to be picked, I would be more conciliatory towards other players. Like I started feeling a strong aversion towards picking UNOwen as King for a reason I don’t like, which is that I didn’t trust LLD’s push for them. I still believe that UNOwen hasn’t done enough to merit the strongest TR from any player, but that’s also weird. What Scum would try and build up a Partner for King that is gathering some SRs, and hasn’t dominated the discussion? It’s sub-optimal by quite a wide margin. Like I would have given up on even trying to push for UNOwen based on how the discussion had gone. So it’s probably driven by real belief, unless LLD wants nothing to do with the actual choice (which doesn’t match everything else they’re saying). I guess what I’m saying is that I’m confused as to what benefit LLD is deriving from pushing certain slots in the way that they are.

you mistakenly believe LLD thinks she needs certain people on her side when u go "why is she pushing people away?" both town and scum lld knows she doesn't need some people on her side. She is going to make sure her opinion voice is dominate voice and push the naysayers to side. Regardless of alignment.

its a big game. u don't need to have it all with u to do what u want

[Firebringer]

since no one is directly campaigning and even though i would be a terrible king.
I will say if i am voted as King this is my council:

Me (King Firebringer first of his name)
Hand of the King - Thestatusquo
Master of Laws - Dannflor
Master of Ships - Lukewarm
Grand Maester - Datisi
Master of Coin - Andante
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard - Junkochan

I checked ops and it didn't even mention how many members are on the council. But it should have all those positions.

As your possibly unlikely future king. I also declare as part of my reign i shall never enact this power:

You may execute a player during the day - this will end the day and replace the normal voting mechanism - this ability can not be used on consecutive days.

A just an good king never overrules his subjects wishes. If i am to live a long and healthy life as ruler i need the support of all the lords and ladies and cannot be tyrannical. For that is just good pragmatic kingsmanship

[Firebringer]

why do you want mastina to be king, rhae?

Because she is a competent scumhunter, and also because I know her best, and also because I think she and I can work well together, and also because I want the Hand of the King position.

bad bad bad
can't even keep my vote on you for memes anymore
VOTE: Datisi

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Datisi

are you voting for me just because you know i'm gonna make you master of coin or whatever other title you want

u haven't promised me jack.

[Firebringer]

But hey, if you don't want to crown someone who can actually contribute to town wincon, just say so, and I shall change my campaign to Firebringer or myself.

works for me

[Firebringer]

You do realize you have limited posts right

[Firebringer]

You do realize you have limited posts right

You're meh. Your thoughts are also meh.

not news to me.

I'll support anyone for king who promises to execute rhae tbh

ehhh will pass. I promised not to execute anyone. Since ur gonna be my hand, i need u to council me on restraint.

I think Rhaenyra is probably scum trying to burn through their posts so they don't have to participate later today. Prove me wrong by not posting.

i see what u did there

[Firebringer]

He said maybe and then u gave an AtE reaction to u not being part of council.
the "fun parts of the game". Like, u can't have fun outside the council or something. I am almost certainly not gonna be in the council and all im gonna be doing is leading a peasant revolt. Should be fun on the buss.

But i guess thats not the fun u look for LLD.

[Firebringer]

Thestatusquo has been stabbed in the back by JJaime Lannister for thinking he knows better than us peasants.

Who is jaime lannister in this scenario.
also i don't get TSQ is the mad king in this scenario?
And the peasants ordered his death which i think means u? So confusing.

[Firebringer]

He said maybe and then u gave an AtE reaction to u not being part of council.
the "fun parts of the game". Like, u can't have fun outside the council or something. I am almost certainly not gonna be in the council and all im gonna be doing is leading a peasant revolt. Should be fun on the buss.

But i guess thats not the fun u look for LLD.

Is this meant to be an insult? am I not allowed to feel shit anymore? lmfao

what part of that was supposed to be an insult. im saying ur AtE and excuse of "this isn't fun" doesn't hold any water.

[Firebringer]

Thestatusquo has been stabbed in the back by JJaime Lannister for thinking he knows better than us peasants.

Don't you group us together. I have no fucking clue what you've been smoking these past 2 pages.

Yeah, well. I don't care. I support who I support, and for good reasons too. You dislike that? Too bad, my reasons are valid.

If you wanna protest that on principle, then do so. In fact, you might as well gamethrow cos you dislike a playstyle? And you know what? If you do, it ain't my problem. I ain't gonna get my panties in a twist cause some of you prioritize enjoyement over winning. After all, you have that right.

mastina supports LLD for queen.
You could at least read mastina to find out she supports LLD for queen. She has like 3 posts. Maybe u should ask mastina if she even wants it cause she said LLD in her first few posts should be queen.

[Firebringer]

Right, so it was #2. I'm not allowed to feel shit anymore. Got it. Wasn't sure if this was attempting to make fun of me for feeling this way or attempting to pidgeon hole any emotional response I have as manipulative.

You only have 2 modes, so you get a little predictable.

OHH MY GOD.

ALL YOU DO IS EMOTIONALY MANIPULATE.

ITS SO FUCKING TIRING.
CAN YOU GO ONE GAME WITHOUT DOING IT

[Firebringer]

i seriously hate having to think
"is in this moment am i having a real connection with LLD or is it all fake bs"
and yet thats all i ever do.

[Firebringer]

I kind of feel like resigning and letting this trainwreck get ridden to a victory or defeat by the people who want to ride it

How can you think or feel like this when we haven't even nominated a king and its been less than 24 hours since game start.

Please explain where these feelings come from

[Firebringer]

@Firebringer - What's your read on LLD here?

Annoyed

[Firebringer]

I kind of feel like resigning and letting this trainwreck get ridden to a victory or defeat by the people who want to ride it

How can you think or feel like this when we haven't even nominated a king and its been less than 24 hours since game start.

Please explain where these feelings come from

I don't know? It just feels like things have been decided not based on my alignment but based on my prior skill that I should sit in the peasant VT row and watch everyone else play with the fun powers but I should be grateful for that and do well anyway because I'm good at the game.

And that harbours resentment within me and makes me want to check in every 47 hours to see how the game is goign and then leave, you know, the Katsuki playstyle.

It's not rational or fair but if I'm told things like that, it just tanks my motivation and my motivation is a lot of my ability to interact with thing. Even if I know it's wrong to do. Even if I'm going to be relying on my system to try and not do that...it's how I feel.

well now i feel like this question was a waste.
getting a major sense of deja vu from this response to another argument we had a year or two ago in diff game.

This hasn't helped me get any better feel for u.
I am going to sit in the corner till i get something better that might help me

[Firebringer]

are u sure ur not a targaryen

[Firebringer]

i don't want to be the hand. I want to be one stealing money from the crown for years and get away with it

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Junkochan
see you all day 2.

[Firebringer]

Spoiler: im supposed to be quiet dont read junkochan

random ramblings before i fall asleep....

so i was thinking, no one scumreading me. Fuckin odd. This feels like my scum game where people just throw out reads on me for no reason as town and i jus go along with it. Bizzaro.

I should question them more, but the only one that pings me is bella. She townread me too fast in my gut says investigate. But I was just wrong on bella recently and will want to approach that slowly and probably in more slower fashion. Don't want to scare the penguin away.

Also one of my goals in this game was Shea paranoia on me. He has not given a read on me, probably not odd? I feel subtle buddying going on in a few posts and we agree too much. Could he be scum that wants us not to trust LLD and furthering any possible divide?

Actually thinking on it. LLD/Shea interactions feel weirder in hindsight. Like i feel LLD actually interacts with Shea like she knows he is town or something, and it feels the same to me. I don't feel she is sorting either of us. Maybe my intuition was right on LLD. Where is the sorting or does she not care to sort either of us? I would think she cares to sort Shea. Maybe I need to read into her posts with TSQ again.

Should I be worried on datisi? I don't think so. I am not sure the drive is as there as felt before in games, it feels subdued. life? Players? No idea. I am no sure what dats actually wants when i think about it and i feel like theres more direction when u look at Dats town game. The aimlessness more reaction in the moment style seems reminiciscent of scum keeping up but i feel thats too hasty. I will keep dats as town. At least the scum i could trust to be town.

Rhaenya is town. Nothing to discuss there
Andante is town. Nothing to discuss there.

Dannflor is gonna burn himself out.

Unowen is strange, and given his interactions and what posted. Would not be surprised about scum on that. I don't see point in a lot of there posts and could even see scum motivation in questions posing and what they are looking into as not scumhunting. think someone
else said this? Might be me agreeing with Shea again. Not again....
.
Andresvmb like reading his posts but disagree with him plenty. Seems like cool chap. No read on him though, inclined to throw him in the town until something pings me bucket.
Enchant is cool but wont get a read till years later
VP baltar is someoone i should have a read on but i feel trying to hard to linteract with Datisi that i would almost accuse of it being a shield for better content. Not sure even scummy, could literally be poking a friend to get the best read but thats all i remember even though he posted more.
Lukewarm needs to do more if he wants maintain position as master of ships
GuiltyLion don't have strong feelings on this game! BUT CONGRATS ON GETTING MARRIED!

Titus is a player in this game.
Mastina was here for a second.

And even though the spoiler tag mentions junkochan, I have nothing right now to even say about Junkochan. Except don't check ur bank account because all ur money is still there

Wow i gave some gibberishing thoughts on [Almost] everyone. Now i must sleeppppp

[Firebringer]

make me coin girl tvm

Looks like i got competition for master of coin.
I bet u do this on purpose

[Firebringer]

Firebringer: bad vibes from 416, which felt like it was designed more to frustrate LLD's attempts this game then actually engaging with what she said in her post. Like, she literally just floating an idea, and his resposne was

feeling triggered.

[Firebringer]

Btw I, explicitly, have zero faith in my ability to read Firebringer, but he does look town to me for what it's worth.

This is how you all should know i am in my scum meta.

[Firebringer]

firebringer do you have a read on me

you keep making comments about me that I don't really understand

town that is going to implode on themselves is my read.
Ur trying to run a marathon while the rest of us are stretching. need to slow down mate.

@VP u didn't ask me, but i don't like ur small council. Theres no Firebringer in the master of coin position. And i swear ur trying to break me and dannyboi apart with giving it to him. Rude as fuck, and scummy.

[Firebringer]

dweelee is town

i have so many questions on this starting with what and how

[Firebringer]

Actually would like to hear more on this. I don't think I have experience with Yume, and I have a bad tendency to want to just remove players from the game if their playstyles annoy me.


I'm also curious on what you're saying about LLD and Shea. Can I get some kind of gut read out of you on each of those slots since you're a little rambling in your thoughts post.

As far as no one having a scum read on you, I personally think you're a hard player to read because you're always chill. My gut kind of says town but I don't think I have enough experience with your meta to just trust that.

Yume isn't worth getting into. Anyone who thinks this is a strat to avoid talking about game slots either (a) just wants to scumread yume cause don't like what they are doing) or (b) are scum looking for easy vote. Since most people ignoring it im thinking more a than b.

As far LLD and Shea. I don't think they are teammates. If i had to pick one for town and one for scum i would pick Shea over LLD at this second. I am not definitive on either though. I need more time esp with Shea. I probably will never gain a very strong confidence on LLD because been fooled too many times by her. The times I wished her to be town and just let myself townread her too fresh in my memory even if its like a year or two now ago.

Shea i think im pretty good at reading, so i hope i develop that stronger. Again very weak on scum lean there. He hasn't done the things i expect to see of scum shea. I am not very good at describing the diff in town/scum shea either so that won't be useful when i do gain confidence.


Also no ur a peasant

[Firebringer]

to be honest nothing LLD has done has really shifted my scumread.
All i can see now is Lukewarm is buddying up to town LLD. Like luke seems like scum wants in town!LLD good graces.
Nothing to do with LLD player im indiriectly determining her town.

But i see so many people echoing Luke is scum here that im subconsciously wondering if im either (a) reacting to that triggering post (b) subtly influenced by the repeats of others saying luke scum.

[Firebringer]

Hey Shea what can i do to make you think im scum this game

[Firebringer]

This is the worst timeline

[Firebringer]

Theres no way you would want me as king. Trying to troll me.
ur trying to egg on my own paranoia of you with this. Its a counter troll uno reverse.
Well played.

[Firebringer]

and I'm really curious to see who is really actively against you being King because we are getting to a stage where I find scumreading you somewhat implausible on the whole.

i am very much against VPB as king. Because he won't give me master of coin.
He also said im a peasant. Very rude.

Also no one has seemed to brought up the obvious. Lots of people are half way through their posting and we still have a whole phase after this for voting out someone. Unless everyones thoughts are "let the king just kill someone" which i disagree with.

More discussion should be on who to lim then who to be king for those getting up in post counts or conserve posts. (my god what have i become advocating for this)

In any situation my vote to lim is on
HURT: Lukewarm

[Firebringer]

lukewarm looks like fakepushing on GL btw. The more I see it the more i think GL is town.
Like super aggro for no other reason than trying to win arguments. It looks like an act. I can't imagine he believes his push and is just looking for things to call out.

Lukewarm very scummy.
Would still have him on the council though. Though i don't think master of ships is a position anymore

[Firebringer]

Firebringer probs scum – yw warmpuppy

thanks penguin, you the best.

Yo Firebringer, you appear to have missed 834.

didn't miss it. i am really not out to make a case on you right now, so didn't feel the need to go into it any further. i guess plus one for u following up on it though.

see? firebringer is town this game

No u. I am def scum.

Lukewarm very scummy.
Would still have him on the council though. Though i don't think master of ships is a position anymore

No fuck that, I don't even want on the council.

I want to be off council, and then cop checked night 1.

And once I am clear, we kill GL.

Fake and dumb.

[Firebringer]

Can anyone tell me if lukewarm new meta is to go full tunnel aggro and act in bad faith. The town!lukewarm i know is reasonable and considerate, this is just amazing me watch this performance.

[Firebringer]

idk - the tunneling reminds me of playing in LOST with him though I remember agreeing with his points much more

on the list to skim over the weekend i guess then.

firebringer is en route to become my strongest townread, and only partly because i wanna annoy him

(srsly tho 1244 is Good and i deadass assumed we'll be getting a fresh 150 cap for some reason?)

anyway i see nobody wants to chat with me that's cool that's fine i'm totally not gonna go cry

WELL FINE I DONT EVEN WANT UR SCUMREAD THEN. SEE WHAT I CARE

[Firebringer]

And in that scenario, I think that she could effectively scum hunt, use what ever PR she gets, advise the king, ect, from that position too

sure sure - except she wouldn't be the one deciding who's on the council and in what position nor would she have protection from scum just offing her. Not much use as an advisor if dead. Like if you think LLD is town and as good a player as you are stating, she would be more effective, and quite likely for longer, as king vs on the council.

i may have just talked myself into changing my vote

wouldn't town king lld just die night 1.
Or maybe scum thinks she would be useful for chaos and keep her around? idk i think i would just kill town king lld night 1 here.

Unless king can't be killed like with kingsguard stops it. Do i need to read what the council roles do or something.

[Firebringer]

roles so far:
GRAND MAESTER -basically bulletproof giver - can give potion at night that they can use to save them. Costs a coin
MASTER OF WHISPERERS - Tracker - costs coins
MASTER OF LAWS - jailkeeper - costs coins
MASTER OF COIN - power role enabler - gives money to the council. Can make investments?
LORD COMMANDER OF THE KINGSGUARD - basically PT with seven other people. Can kill the king/prince if they decide to overthrow don't want scum with this. Needs 50% control to do that for 7 that would mean 4 day 1. If loyal then king can't die.
HAND OF THE KING - cop. Costs coin to act.
THE PRINCE OF DRAGONSTONE - becomes king on death of king.
King - Day Vig - can lim one person during day, cannot be consecutive. (stops any normal voting and we cannot lim someone else that day) selects the council.




questions i want to ask on roles:
> if you don't drink maester potion can it be used on future nights. seems to be yes. just confirm.
>what kind of investments can coin do to raise more funds.
>can kingsguard select to just kill king or do they have to kill both king/successor prince.

[Firebringer]

interesting.

@mod
>am i to assume theres ways for master of coin to make more money?
> what happens when someone dies with unused coins?
> Is it correct to assume that no new person can join the council? Or that a position could be retired completely if not? In other words if i say don't want to give position of whisperers to any other council member and i can't select a new one entirely that position is gone or can be changed later when i feel like it?
> if you don't drink maester potion can it be used on future nights. seems to be yes. just confirm
> can kingsguard select to just kill king or do they have to kill both king/successor prince.

Love asking all these mod questions that i doubt pooky wants to or will answer lol

[Firebringer]

I missed a lot, I don't feel like reading right now, uhhh yall only seem to want like my top people I'm opposed to making king, so it's like whatever, I'm just here I guess. I went "I do not want a GL king" and yall were like "GL MUST BE KING" and then I was seeing VP king stuff, and I'm like, I don't want that either... but hey not like I matter. I was ruled out from being king cause.... what you think I'm hipfiring people? right ok whatever. I'm just coasting through the rest of this day at least, uhhh yeah idk I have no motivation, and sure that's exactly what happens when I'm scum, but I'm not scum, and this is just like a "I want the person who will give me power" kinda thing, or that's all how this feels, uhhhh I've been ignored like all game, except for the few just flat out yelling at me, idk, uhh we want to vote junko as king?? at Rhea in 1301.... you do realize Junko went on this huge "ANDANTE IS BAD" thing where if they had a vig they 100% would have shot me there.... like, whatever, not like I really care I guess. this started off as fun, now? meh

AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Instead of doing this....maybe you can push more on ur reads of who should be king and or lim. Preferably ur lim favorite or w/e.

idk why u or anyone else just expects people to just take their reads/takes and just agrees with them. I make a lot of bad takes and it bothers me more when i see too many people agree with them.

anyways in funnier news, rhaenya is out of posts and can only naked vote.

[Firebringer]

I give reads and I get yelled at for them changing, we don't have a lim here so that doesn't even matter, I honestly probably want to lim whoever yall make king, I kid you not. cause the king choices people seem to love have been so bad... like yall keep picking the scummiest person, so fine, we make your scummy person king, then we lim them, and we look at their council choices.

we are limming right after this. so kind of important to push those reads as well, and i agree with u on luke scum. Also idk how u would think we auto lim a king we just elected. In what world would we do that? Thats a waste of voting the king. like u would have to sway a whole bunch of people to flip on the king immediately...

[Firebringer]

I'm cool with either based on my limited engagement.

VOTE: Junko

For the drama.

I don't think scum titus makes this post andres

[Firebringer]

another thing, it seems luke goes out of his way not to address scumreads.
That seems particularly odd. Like he knows people are calling him scum. He just keeps going doing what he does.

For example, i called him scum. 10 pages prior he said he had a bad vibe and scum feel on me. Now, I don't know about yall, but if the person I think is scum is now calling me scum. I am not going to just keep going and pretend that isn't happening like its not big deal. I am going to respond to it and investigate to build my case further.

Now maybe Luke doesn't scumread say me anymore, or maybe annoyed with me, who knows. theres def others that is just not addressing. Really feels like that scum strat of "ignore it and continue to pretend to scumhunt so people change their mind". Which is usually good strategy but here it feels pretty glaring that it is what is going on

[Firebringer]

im off your radar huh

Lukewarm very scummy.
Would still have him on the council though. Though i don't think master of ships is a position anymore

No fuck that, I don't even want on the council.

I want to be off council, and then cop checked night 1.

And once I am clear, we kill GL.

[Firebringer]

feeling gaslight here.
but lets pretend i am off ur radar for a moment.

Lets also pretend for sake of argument u have been addressing so many peoples scumreads of u. (i didn't do an iso of u but i can tell u from my memory and ive read almost every page twice, i don't think u addressed more than one person)

if i feel of ur scum vibe radar how did that happen, because i assume ur at null if thats the case. why do i not feel ur trying to sort me in this moment if ur at null becomes a second question.

[Firebringer]

okay i have to admit i skimmed. but i didn't find where u were addressing other people scumreading u here....maybe im slow. Always a possibility.

Anyways one thing crossed my mind as i went through the skim, i don't see an opinion on shea. Maybe you can elaborate ur position there because fmpov if i were u, i would be using this engagement with him to get a read if u don't have one. Feels like you have unspoken read there by way u handle this interaction.

another thing is i find it strange and I def don't think this is how u play but there was a lack of questions from u at players. You explained and gave plenty of thoughts on posts but i don't think i could find a question to get insight into a player once. Could have missed them but i was like "wait where are questions if he is sorting players".

so what r ur reads on me and shea?

[Firebringer]

as far as people u have addressed for having scumreads on u outside of GL the only other time was sort of (not really) with datisi and that was in response to u calling datisi scum. Ill count this as 2.

Two questions thrown into this game was 495 and 96 and the second is just asking someone if they want to be king.

do i need to go back and examine what LLD was saying on why Luke is town.

[Firebringer]

Luke/Bella for scum team at the moment.

In historic tradition of pooky games this has been a long time coming but it is time for me call out the scum team.
i usually do this hipfire style in the first like 20 pages. I wonder how it will be now its like page 56.

So in theme of the game each scum will be a dragon.
Luke - Balerion
Bellaphant - Arrax
UNOwen - Sunfyre
Dwlee99 - Vermax
Dannflor - Vhagar

of those dannflor is my spicy read of someone who felt town earlier but wouldn't be surprised if wrong. Dwlee99 is my lazy read that is probably town.

[Firebringer]

priorize my focus during the early stages of this game

Like this exact conversation is about why I am not engaging more with responding to and casing out my 4th place scum lean.

And why have I not put more words into my 7th weakest town lean.

And the answer is just... those are not really my priority with my time that I can exist in this game.

And if you expect those to be more fleshed out from me, then I will almost certainly be failing to meet those expectations.

i do not expect fleshed out reads. i don't think asking questions is a time commitment compared to how much thoughts uve already expressed. I just don't see sorting here.

Go to bed tho dude

[Firebringer]

firebringer is there a particular reason you feel especially tryhard this game

im just engaged with the game dude

@bella hey, i want to know more of why u got a townread on me so early. I don't vibe with how u got there. want that explained.

[Firebringer]

i have issues trusting shea enough for him to be king. I have a hard time believing his points about that he actually would have wanted me to be king and i go back and forth if thats a deliberate troll tactic. I don't imagine a world he ever wanted me king.

fine with council position not king. ALthough i don't think its that big of a deal if he becomes king. Personally im like 60% town and 40% paranoid. There certain things he pushes and questions that just doesn't feel completely right too. Can't pin my finger on it.

@mastina no one wants andante town king because i don't think they like her reads and she will pick council. Not to mention she intends to just plug junkochan as soon as she can. She might say she isn't a loose cannon, but she is going to just fire shot someone when she can if king. If you townread junko u should realize that instead of being dogmatic.

Also been feeling mastina/titus, and more so titus. Every read she gives i almost want to go "Yeah probably opposite of that". Idk what she doing. Mastina townreading luke makes me go "good im on the right track".

[Firebringer]

Has anyone mentioned the fact that whoever becomes king needs to put their scumread in position of prince?
If kingsguard revolts we need to clear that prince and they have to kill both players. So if kingsguard becomes corrupt they have to kill one of their own to get to the king. I don't think anyone pointed this out because people missed between lines of kingsguard revolt, and BOTH king/prince die if this happens. They can't choose one or another.

@mastina i think vp baltar mixed the times of when coin was revealed to when i advocated. I don't think thats a scum slip by any stretch. Its also false assumption to just assume that scum already knew all the roles.

[Firebringer]

Call me stupid, but I think this means they can choose not to kill the heir

i had to reread the pm pooky sent because im stupid too.
so yeah ur right if they all vote yes its both if 50% its just king. So takeover by scum that pushes it to near control could just kill king and put the prince in charge. Nvm im dumb

[Firebringer]

wait now mastina is arguing that vpb is the one who got the junko wagon going.
what timeline am i even in. That is def not how that went down.

[Firebringer]

@JunkoChan

Put me on Council and Town Auto Wins.


Me want ability, me take down wolves with that ability.

If I'm queen I hereby promise that I shall grant you your wish

(there's no way this goes through btw but I like your energy)

VOTE: Junko

This was def the trigger for it all happening in my eyes. Junko is like no way this happens which gets everyone to be like "lol okay lets do it" and then joins.

[Firebringer]

Char said scum wouldn't lock themselves into a spot like master of coin. I said, well master of coin can control the other power roles, so definitely seems to have some scum benefit.

And my point is that is still a scumslip, because the knowledge of what master of coin did was not in the game thread at the beginning of the game.
In fact,

at the beginning of the game, we didn't know there was a master of coin position.

Yet alone, that a master of coin would be a power role.
Yet alone, what that power role was.

Firebringer has been advocating for it since the very beginning--before we knew it was in the game, before we knew it was a power role, and before we knew the details of the power role.

You arguing that Firebringer did that as scum,
Is itself a scumslip because Firebringer wouldn't know as town those details;
You thinking that a scum player would,
Is itself a scumslip by being a perspective slip of what scum would know.

VPB has already said in the post ur quoting that he wasn't saying I knew what PR existed. Or that even scum knew what PR/positions existed. He was saying scum would want a position on council period so the townread on me for wanting master of coin doesn't make sense because scum would want the position whether they knew what it does or not.

This has been spelled out.

[Firebringer]

Master of Coin: Firebringer

feels odd that now vpb wants me here, but okay i guess. first time vpb said something that made me go thats weird.

[rhaenyra, vpbaltar, firebringer?, LLD]

whats with the ?

i don't mind the dwlee votes but my heart is really here:
VOTE: Lukewarm

@luke I noticed you now have me firm scum. Fun stuff. Why don't we talk about it, what do u find scummy about now?
Also how is bella so townie to u that u think she should be council member. That is pretty out there

[Firebringer]

pooky renamed our pt per my request for the name
Loving it.

Okay general thoughts:
shea vote on lld pretty spicy i agree with penguin
secondly the more i think about it the more people actually say i should be master of coin makes me think scum think they can get PR and get money from me, which is a weird thing to think of because everyone who has put me on a list of coin, i don't scumread and majority townread. So.....paranoia over nothing probably.

Also @luke so ur just saying u don't want me as council. Okay but doesn't that equal scumread? Or u just saying u don't trust me with power. I don't get what kind of position u even have on me here. Why the hell do u want bella as council and she is town to u.

[Firebringer]

is dwlee more scum than lukewarm datisi

[Firebringer]

VOTE: dwlee
datisi is the king of the north everyone

[Firebringer]

no one taught me how to read

[Firebringer]

unwnd replaces Rhaenyra[his post counter will start at 0]

super hyped.
nominate unwnd for council.
Rhae was town so therefore Unwnd good guy. Strong player. Would recommend

[Firebringer]

I'm more confident they flip town than scum, just said something in our PT I actually kinda liked,

7 posts by dwlee and 6 are arguing with rhae. the only thing of substance was saying couldn't commit to scumread on GL said he was basically annoyed at GL. als not liking dats/dann.

Not sure what part of this one post u liked but feels pretty milque toast for scumhunting to me. basically yeah x could be scum and i don't like these 2. I don't know why ur conf on dwlee town here.

[Firebringer]

I'm more confident they flip town than scum, just said something in our PT I actually kinda liked,

7 posts by dwlee and 6 are arguing with rhae. the only thing of substance was saying couldn't commit to scumread on GL said he was basically annoyed at GL. als not liking dats/dann.

Not sure what part of this one post u liked but feels pretty milque toast for scumhunting to me. basically yeah x could be scum and i don't like these 2. I don't know why ur conf on dwlee town here.

could you paraphrase?

i basically did. its a one and half sentence statement from dwlee.

[Firebringer]

if this were a democracy for council seats i actually feel decent about penguin/charloux being in council. I just vibe penguin as town, feels like snarky town player to me. Charloux has made some good posts i think i wouldn't say SO TOWN but like....idk good head on shoulders, would trust with a PR i guess.

Just general vibes going for me there.

I do think the lim today should be Lukewarm or dwlee.
not sure why we all decided dwlee was the better one we all just rallyed for votes on. It seemed odd? But maybe I am just missing some underline triggers that i can't see. It almost feels like a RVS wagon that hopped out of nowhere even though i know others suspected dwlee before shea became king.

[Firebringer]

Drapion wtf r u doing

[Firebringer]

My dream of being the royal accountant is now complete
What will I do with myself now.

Also pls no rush day end.

[Firebringer]

kingsguard picks: mastina/penguinpower/enchant/VPB/GL/Dannflor

@Drapion Why is enchant a thing now

[Firebringer]

my number one scumread is not only nightkilled but was town.
The scum are mocking me

[Firebringer]

Don't get pocketed by mastina in the PT

mastina doesn't look like she is trying to pocket anyone.
Also when does scum!mastina even try to pocket people. She just keeps repeating the same gibberish over and over.

[Firebringer]

Is there valid and reasonable reason for Fire to not give datisi money?

Its called a bank account.

[Firebringer]

Is there valid and reasonable reason for Fire to not give datisi money?

Its called a bank account.

To who you gived money?

i gave it all to luke so that town has no money.

[Firebringer]

and i would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for detective enchant.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: VPB

[Firebringer]

Ugh.
I will follow Lukewarm belief in this:
VOTE: GuiltyLion
don't believe in it, but i was wrong on luke. Sorry luke.

[Firebringer]

Was he saying this in council PT? Cause he was clear yesterday he wanted Dwlee first

Ummm...why you concerned with who goes first because....i mean u would be next if thats the case? Also could we talk about ur comment on mastina trying to pocket people. I feel like the more i look at ur iso now, the more i see ur trying to spread either paranoia or poisoning the well for trust between players....

I feel by play u have been mostly town GL at least ur transitions and where ur going seems to make sense from town!u. I am a bit confused now having gone through Luke posts about u, rechecking ur iso and seeing the points ur making with a more critical lense.

[Firebringer]

idk i feel a more town!GL question to me response would have been 'why me over dwlee considering luke was focused on dwlee the last game day?" but the way u asked it made it feel less like u were looking for my reasoning more than pushing me towards dwlee over yourself.

[Firebringer]

that seems like exactly the same statement. Can you expand about what's different between the two?

its the way its framed... i know it sounds like its asking the same thing, but one is like looking for my reasoning (the one i just said would be more town!GL) the other is more pushing me to vote dwlee over himself (manipulative instead of searching for my reason)

[Firebringer]

do you have a history with Luke, GL?

[Firebringer]

GL theres no way im going to be paranoid of Shea in this game.
He gave me the power to control who acts or not in the PR game.
It would have to mean he stacked the council with scum to control the PRs, he doesn't fear any of the PRs, or thinks im so bad that me being in this position actually helps his alignment out the most (i guess this last one might be pretty possible ngl)

I really think if ur living in a world where u think Shea is scum. You would need to really access his council picks more than u are. Like I think u should suspect me of being scum if u think shea is scum.

[Firebringer]

this feels like trying to win an argument

[Firebringer]

i think i made the right decisions.

[Firebringer]

@Firebringer

Can you give all information on money you have? If you perish without telling and mafia will step up as moneyholder afterwards, it makes them easier to lie about money.

i am so not worried about dying. And even less worried about mafia taking over the role after my death. So nope.

[Firebringer]

like, I’ve been suspicious of Fire

What...since when?

[Firebringer]

I am voting GL because it was Luke's read.

[Firebringer]

andante seems to think given the guard group that it must mean that shea is scum....i don't know how that analysis works, is she assuming that 3-4 members of guard are scum saving SHea?

[Firebringer]

Shea needs to pick a new person for laws. Then i need to submit my actions, so yes pls no rush.

[Firebringer]

Also just to get this game more annoyed at me.
To andres point who didn't say who i suggested. I said junko/andante should get the roles so that they have more versatility in what they can do.

[Firebringer]

My view of the game has dramatically evolved - I will not be voting for GuiltyLion. I just won’t. If you guys execute there and they flip Town, I will take steps to limit the damage done immediately.

I might need to read more posts andres but how did this evolution occur. Well actually idc about the evolution, why is GL town? Is it just the wagon on them is scummy?

[Firebringer]

UNVOTE:

[Firebringer]

Andres i want unity on the council right now. Can we align on someone outside for now?

[Firebringer]

replacing Junkochan

Town

[Firebringer]

#YouVotedForThis

[Firebringer]

Just claim who you targeted last night plz.

Here is what I will keep public since I already said it would be:
Junko got money.
Then I spent money in investments.
That is all.

I will not reveal anything about how much anything costs, including how much i started with or what i have now, etc. I said this from the beginning here and the in council PT.

That info is not useful for town and none of you could audit it anyway. None of you can prove if i even spent money on investments or i didn't give money to Luke. Theres no reason for me to claim the money available or how much i had. Any town pissed off and pressuring me for some accountability on this literally don't see how this info could be useful for scum.

Here is the basic point that scum probably should have pierced together but town who can't catch a clue should understand: Not everyone could have performed an action night one.

Enchant points about me making bad decisions is based on him knowing only seeing the end result. If Junko had performed a save, my decision would be held in better regard for it. But she didn't, not her fault and I didn't expect it to succeed.

[Firebringer]

considering i am putting more trust in the council i will be telling them prior to day end who will be getting money. I don't think theres scum in there. I don't think it needs repeating to council members, but if you have any disagreements with my actions we should discuss in there not in here or any other PT. Scum do not need road maps.

[Firebringer]

Your logic on why im scum is too simplistic for me to figure out if its genuine or not.

[Firebringer]

Yeah thats what i mean by simplistic.
You could have those thoughts as either alignment. Its very simple philisophical question of gameplay. I can't read a motivation in you professing these takes. Because it lacks any substance of figuring out my motivations for doing any of these actions. You are proclaiming certain actions default to scum behavior, which gives me nothing to see if ur thinking about me as a player. Rather than some grand idea of how town/scum should and would act.

This is why i call it simplistic, and why i can't figure out ur alignment from it.
Kind of worthless.

[Firebringer]

have fun with that

[Firebringer]

Enchant doesn't even scumread me. He is throwing a hissy fit.

[Firebringer]

if you want people to listen to you, make compelling cases or work together with people to solve the game.

[Firebringer]

just general advice on u as a player, cause u seem to be a solo "here is my opinion. it is right, everyone should follow me" kind of player. That usually doesn't get people to just sheep u. The only times that will get others to sheep u is when they don't have strong opinions of their own and being lazy (the sheep) and when you have an uber reputation of being a good player. This is like only 1-2 people that were on this site that could unilaterly just claim X is scum and get a whole wagon to just push for them to be lim.

You don't have either of these situations, if you want people to listen. Go to work with them and help them figure stuff out as well as show your willingness to listen as well yourself.

[Firebringer]

if you want people to listen to you, make compelling cases or work together with people to solve the game.

You are excluding the majority of the players by only speaking to the council. Another example of your play as a contradiction, which is a symptom of being mafia.

What? I am not just speaking to the council.
I am working more with them because i trust them. That isn't a contradiction, if i really wanted to lim someone right this second i would be looking to work with more people to get it done. I am working right now to get council to trust each other so we can solve and get this game in towns favor.

This isn't a contradiction. I am literally following my own example by trying to work with people. I have no case to bring forward to push someone for lim right now. So i am working with others to pull together who i townread to get a cohesion going.

[Firebringer]

That's not what I'm doing. I'm just observing the mechanics of last night and concluding that you're mafia as a result. I've already outlined why it makes you mafia, people should be able to see it. It's not like I just went 'Fire sus' and nothing else.

Okay, just don't think this is compelling case ur making.
Hey i managed to get town lean on u from this exchange. So this was useful.

[Firebringer]

i dont' care if ur town and wrong tbh. I don't play like that.

[Firebringer]

but my vote is locked onto you for the rest of the game until one of us dies.

my dude this didn't even last half an hour

[Firebringer]

no simping allowed!
also i shouldn't be antagonizing people. I am supposed to be positivebringer today.
Only positivity allowed.

[Firebringer]

i wonder if i can petition pooky to offer an investment for Coin bodyguards. I think i will surely need this.

[Firebringer]

i wonder if i can petition pooky to offer an investment for Coin bodyguards. I think i will surely need this.

If you don't fund Datisi tonight, no bodyguard will save you. That probably goes without saying.

i don't know if u realized my personality is to go against what people tell me to do. Because im not affraid of dying in a mafia game, you can't exactly pressure me into doing what you think is best or right.

If anything im more inclined not to do something u tell me to do with this kind of threat. This is a game, you can't bully me into doing what u want friend.

[Firebringer]

Speaking of drapion.
Drapion why r u confident im town here?

[Firebringer]

I don't like the idea of a VP or GL lim today. Both feel like they're kissing Shea's ass (or Shea is scum).

I think you mistyped this?
VP and GL been fighting Shea

[Firebringer]

Mathblade has been appointed Master of Whisperers

Spicy

[Firebringer]

@Firebringer - do you really think it's an all-town council? why?

Yes, I don’t have the most words for u.
Give me who u doubt outside of Shea
Cause I explained why I won’t have doubt of him

[Firebringer]

Rhae was def town

[Firebringer]

Like I think at time u said the over posting unhunged posting was some three d chess move to she wouldn’t have to post in game. That was ridiculous idea she would think to do that. Rhae doesn’t operate on that level. Then as soon as she got in pt she continued with unhinge posting further disproving ur theory then and then force replaced.

Obviously town.

[Firebringer]

God damn it math
I fucking said don’t claim what is happening with money in the thread

U get nothing now

[Firebringer]

There’s no evidence of Shea being hero pumped here at all. He’s been too quiet and lurky and no involvement.

Shea has not been lurky
We just had thanksgiving and it’s weekend.
Can we not accuse anyone of lurking during holidays

[Firebringer]

There’s no evidence of Shea being hero pumped here at all. He’s been too quiet and lurky and no involvement.

Shea has not been lurky
We just had thanksgiving and it’s weekend.
Can we not accuse anyone of lurking during holidays

He demonstrably has been so.

Only way I get powers is from King. Ergo Shea was online.
Shea did not post in the hoods despite many attempts.

So Shea = lurking

Or Shea being u know… busy with his life. Told pooky “hey this is my action in case I don’t come back by deadline to change it” and gave it to your slot.

Because u know….that’s what I would do and have done with my actions
Shea isn’t known as scum to lurk.

I don’t like these arguments in general at this time when we know people aren’t gonna be around here. Please stop

[Firebringer]

Shea masterfully deployed tactics in advance to put his name on some tournament so that he would have a cover story
The case is all coming together

The real question remains. Why would scum Shea decide to fake a tournament and put himself as 92 and not higher.
(I’m being sarcastic)

[Firebringer]

I’ve been into Yugioh a lot lately, I could never get into magic it was a bit too slow paced. Modern Yugioh is too fast paced tho.
Can’t win

[Firebringer]

This might be literally the dumbest conversation I've ever had in a game of mafia.

I doubt it

[Firebringer]

Let me try to formulate a somewhat cohesive stronger case that math isn’t doing but works on premises I think he is going for

1) Shea wasn’t around when picking mathblade (we all agree)
2) scum Shea didn’t want to be around because he planned to dump power role on him
3) he did 2 because planned to murder him as soon as day ends (planned for fast day so math had no time to evaluate game)
4) math thinks both these and I planned to waste money on him thus hurting town

I think this is the line of argument used
But the weakness is that Shea hasn’t been pushing for fast day (if he was he would have vote hopped dwlee to speed it up)
And I guess I don’t see where scum Shea is afraid of mathblade enough to avoid thread and rush a day end so math has no time, it implies some fear of math to do. If you believe that’s case I would ask why but I townread math slot so whatever

There I think this is a semi logical explanation of what math is after and strongest “case” ur gonna get from this

[Firebringer]

Hi

Is there anything I need to know or any pages I need to skim

Full disclosure though, I'm not gonna read the entire game, I won't be able to retain it if I try but I'll look at whatever is deemed particularly important

I'd also like a quick summary of the mis-elim and how it happened if possible

Quick summary of events that might be worth looking into since I’m giving u cliff notes right now
Day 1-
Was back and forth on the king vote, vpb was looking like going to happen then junk (math slot) suddenly appeared somewhat randomly challenging. Lot of people felt weird about it then Shea threw his hat in ring and everyone jumped on

He selected me, junko (math), andres, unwnd (Jonny), datisi, Luke and andante on council
The game went to lim but was approaching deadline a few people were running out of posts and just when we were going to lim dwlee or seem like it Mariar subbed in and we’ll details on how this blow up happened for me since I wasn’t here but Shea killed Mariar she was town
We go into night
I give junko money so she can do potion no other actions. Junko gave to dats but luke died
Which surprised a lot of people esp me since I hard scumread him

Now we have some vocal opposition of his majesty the king (vpb, ur slot, GL, and now mathblade)
Gl has been suspected for long time but a lot of people townread him. Been controversial could use ur opinion here

And leading wagon is dwlee right now

Okay that is the cliff notes

[Firebringer]

Shea thinks dwlee is town
Shea said he would execute to save who he thinks is town from being limmed

[Firebringer]

It feels like almost everyone is on board with it but I feel like there’s unspoken hesitation with it going to the end
It could just be no one wants to rush day but few people have expressed that who haven’t voted

I guess I’m in that boat but it does seem strange how only Shea is the vocal dwlee supporter

[Firebringer]

If Dwlee scum,

Yeet the King.
Hold a second election for money person.

Second person outs what was done with money N1. If any money given to Luke, yeet Firebringer.

If Dwlee town, find scum in the yes peoples.

This is my last will.

Can scum team do me a favor and kill this slot
I do not mind if I get all the blame for it

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Dwlee
Thats E-1 on dwlee.

[Firebringer]

we just need andres confirm the guard.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Dwlee
Thats E-1 on dwlee.

For clarity sake, can you remind me of your stance on dwlee? Is this a scum vote or a "let's end the day" vote?

Scum lean

[Firebringer]

This is what I have right now: {Titus, VPB, Dannflor, UNOwen, furtiveglance}. Since I don’t know the flip, it’s hard for me to put GL in there, though honestly I probably would otherwise.

i can get ur trying to fill this council with town reads but u realize VPB is gonna vote shea out of game right. If GL gets on he has already said he would too.

[Firebringer]

if shea turbovig tomorrow he can literally be killed by kingsguard then.
In what world do u think scum!shea does that. I

[Firebringer]

It is weird to me you have a scum lean on dwlee but think kicking Shea out should not be considered.

How so? Shea can be town and have incorrect reads.

[Firebringer]

if shea turbovig tomorrow he can literally be killed by kingsguard then.
In what world do u think scum!shea does that. I

The world where his time was already limited. Do max damage as scum and then let your deep wolf buddies carry.

Literally was my scum strategy in KTANE

Okay then, we kill Shea then. Not gonna be driven by some fear paranoia of what COULD happen

[Firebringer]

Also if you guys didn't want a king who used the vig, yall should have voted me.
I said i wasn't gonna use it and wouldn't have.
Yall voted for Shea, not me.

I am lierally the only person here who should be discontented with his choices to want a new king, but i don't.
Yall are bad king makers.

[Firebringer]

It is weird to me you have a scum lean on dwlee but think kicking Shea out should not be considered.

How so? Shea can be town and have incorrect reads.

Yes, he definitely could be. Despite what Shea has said, I don't hate him and continue to treat his actions with a level head. If dwlee flips scum, I'd expect him to give his thoughts to andres, who can relay those to the kingsguard and we should discuss accordingly. But to say there was no scum benefit to shea's actions on a dwlee red flip is pretty hard for me to understand

I never said theres zero scum benefit. I don't think its scummy for Shea. I am not inclined to believe that scum!shea tries to save scum!dwlee with the amount of effort scum!dwlee has been displaying if this is scum dwlee. Like theres saving an ally and then theres suicidally protecting an ally. That and none of shea play screams scummy to me.

If u only look at actions without looking at what a player is thinking then ur only thinking of what would benefit the scum state of game not what a player is individually doing/thinking. I don't agree with ur approach.

[Firebringer]

really any alignment flip on dwlee will likely not change my mind on Shea. Dwlee!scum flip would lead me to believe theres definitely bussers that i will try to evaluate tho

[Firebringer]

i think dwlee trying to point that they planned to interact with stuff as it happens when they are present. The facct they haven't been present means they haven't literally interacted in any meanginful way. Take for instance last pop in, was just asking for interactions but clearly not looking for things to engage with.

already agree with u dwlee is scum. Just think this isn't so much a contradiction as dwlee saying won't participate that much and basically following through with it.

[Firebringer]

Or Datisi just arguing cause I left thread that I'm scum

Okay? Do I really need to rebut that?

I don't buy your dats scumread

[Firebringer]

Trying to limit the post count so here’s things I think need addressing. This is not post by post but rather concepts to avoid spamming the thread.

1) I really don’t like how wagons are starting up counter to Dwlee. There have been very few attempts to explain why Dwlee is town but instead who we should elim. I find this scummy AF. (Yes there are *exceptions* to this but this is a generality). Dwlee themselves have expressed a lack of WIM and very much seem in shutdown mode. To those proposing an alternate elim without an explanation here, assume your elim is instantly flipped. What stops day three from being a repeat of day two which was a repeat of day one.

2) I really don’t like the mis characterization of taking over/in charge. Expressing confidence != taking over. I expressed a theory. It’s a theory I want to test with Dwlee’s elim. I don’t like how Shea is particularly walking back the TR of Dwlee either. If you had a TR strong enough to shoot Maria to avoid the elim you should be able to quantify that in a way that’s understandable so right or wrong you can be sorted. The lack of accountability is horrible

3) Roden wanting to catch up but ignoring questions. I asked a simple question in response to a long post he had and he ignored it. I am not in any PT that talks of overthrowing the king and talks only seemed to start after my suggestion in thread. I want to know who supports the king who would overthrow and who is ambivalent. Asking a simple question I hope can get an answer.

4) Andante’s reads make no sense. I struggle with a town or scum perspective though. A big flaw is assume I and Datisi are scum. Why are you against the new council suggestion I have? It feels argumentative for argumentative sake. Could be he didn’t like he didn’t have the courage to say it or scum trying to sound reasonable but it sounds anything but.

5) I really want to see Titus and LLD do more. Granted knowing them they were likely active previously but whatever alignment they are I want to see more of them.

Overall I scumread a majority of council for being extremely sus
Shea- Why shoot Maria? Why stop Dwlee elim? Why the power grants then? Seems more trying to be angry than trying to solve. Lots of active lurking.
Firebringer - Money related said we won’t talk money in thread but with Luke dying seems sus and would love an audit.
Andante - Reads don’t follow conclusions.
Andres - Towniest of the group but nervous he’s in lurker territory
Johnny - Likely scum if Shea is to keep council in scum’s hands. I don’t really like his play and think it’s off from town him.

I don’t think all of them can be scum and I am probably wrong somewhere but it’s enough bad vibes to want to reform the council with new people if Dwlee flips scum.

Mathblade calling for an auditor when my day job is an auditor I find hilarious

[Firebringer]

Andante stop waffling on dats.
In fact if ur going to jump a read should take five minutes to think it through and explain it in more depth and go over if what ur thinking now versus what u thought before makes it good reason to switch
I don’t like ur read jumps either
No I don’t think it’s scummy

But it makes hard to work with u if u jump ships every five minutes
Next think u know ur going to call me scum again which u did at beginning of this game day
Which is fine but like stick with it and believe in it enough to not jump five minutes later.
Be a loose cannon at endgame not now pls

[Firebringer]

Dissenter pt is for memes not for hunting
Drapion is using it wrong

[Firebringer]

The only reason to use a pt is either
A) u don’t want something public knowledge
B) ur out of posts

Since a and b don’t really apply at this point in game day
No one should be using supporter or dissenter pt tbh

But y’all keep insisting to use them.

I guess c is if u really want a convo with someone and not get drowned out in noise

[Firebringer]

Mathblade was killed on Night One. He was aligned with the Town

Thank you scum team.
And here i thought you wouldn't do it.

[Firebringer]

i find offense that i haven't been townie as fuck in gamethread.

[Firebringer]

Btw just so this is public and no one can now accuse me of dumping on math so he dies with too much gold. I gave math exactly how much he asked for. Math confirmed in council by way of accusing me of not sticking to my guns and that made me scum, again.

[Firebringer]

hey dann is there any RL reasons u been absent or why u not been around.
Ur WIM has gone really downhill since day 1 it feels

[Firebringer]

i checked mastina. she is town.

What a waste.
I swear i told u that she was town.

[Firebringer]

firebringer ability to figure out town mastina by annoyance levels never fails.

[Firebringer]

incoming half the game praising me and half the game screaming at me for that pick. math is rolling in his grave right now. sorry math.

Ehh its fine since literally everyone wants to jump on her for bad reads.
I give you one gold star. Would have gotten 2 if it was LLD

[Firebringer]

t would be best for Shea to make mastina Prince, right?

GuiltyLion day drinking is highly concerning.

as much as I hate Mastina's play this game, I can't see an argument to not put someone who is 100% town in that role? that way if we wind up overthrowing Shea there will never be a case to overthrow Mastina as well

Here is a good argument:
Town Mastina with the power to execute more townies.

[Firebringer]

i do not agree at all johnny is scum.

[Firebringer]

i do not agree at all johnny is scum.

who is scum there bud

already told u the whole council is town.

[Firebringer]

Do i need to repeat why Rhae was town? Rhae literally advocated for King Mastina who we know is town.
Ur saying that RHAE who thinks so highly of mastina, as scum wants to put MASTINA in charge of this town. We know mastina is town now, you guys don't have excuses for this shit.

Get of ur terribad reads.

[Firebringer]

@fire, who are you considering to be scum again?

if ur read my crazy theory in council pt. Its the lower wim players

Unowen, Dannflor, Enchant, Titus/Lld

I want to talk to dannflor more though, i think he might just had life stuff that lowered his WIM that doesn't fit my theory.

Unowen is def scum in my book.

[Firebringer]

Do i need to repeat why Rhae was town? Rhae literally advocated for King Mastina who we know is town.
Ur saying that RHAE who thinks so highly of mastina, as scum wants to put MASTINA in charge of this town. We know mastina is town now, you guys don't have excuses for this shit.

Get of ur terribad reads.

What chance did mastina ever have of becoming king?

so ur saying. Rhae faked a tantrum day 1 when no one wanted mastina king. This is what u have to do.
She literally threw a tantrum because no one was pushing mastina king.

Like in ur world not only would scum!rhae think "ohh this will never happen but ill push it" but she also threw in game hissy fit for it and did this all with scum motivation.

[Firebringer]

players: mastina is super sus
dats: well mastina town
fire: well i was right
players: well rhae slot super sus
Fire: guys, no. that makes no sense.
Players: but it does, you see rhae played 3d chess and wanted to pocket town!mastina.
Fire: yeah....thats why she threw a fit at Shea and was advocating for him to be overthrown while knowing shea could have kill her at anytime because he was annoyed at her. Yeah...this all checks out.

[Firebringer]

shea i haven't been thinking of Rhae slot since i hard town sloted it end of day 1.
I don't think anyone can point me to anything to convince me otherwise tbh. So if anyone is trying to appeal to me, they are going to need to attack my reasoning for finding Rhae townie. Which I don't think anyone can do because it all boils down to Rhae was playing some genius level 3d chess moves

[Firebringer]

Also, why didn't you fund the other roles?

U mean andante? I asked for peoples opinion and no one said they wanted andante to act.

[Firebringer]

Also, why didn't you fund the other roles?

U mean andante? I asked for peoples opinion and no one said they wanted andante to act.

This is slimy. You are offloading your responsibility onto the council.

So I'll ask more clearly: Why didn't you think town should have a tracker last night? Why didn't you think they should have a JK?

Not "no one explicitly told me to do it." you know damn well I left the roles at their discretion to make their own decisions, so now I want you to explain yours.

Okay, I didn't think JK needed to act.

[Firebringer]

Well i was going to fund mathblade to do both tracker and doc and didn't it. So ur right, i only funded 2 PRs.

[Firebringer]

Okay I am scum. The rest of council is town.

[Firebringer]

Shea do you want a full audit or what do u want here. I am not giving it to u. I am fine with you thinking im scum and want that.
What do you think ur going to get out of me?
I think ur town so I don't feel this exchange helps me at all.

if u don't trust me, u don't trust me. I guess thats me being obtuse. W/e.
I am also not going to engage in a fight with you over my reasons/choices. If you think im scum then so be it.
We aren't going to agree on my choices no matter how many words i type out to justify my actions.

[Firebringer]

I think i explained why i did what i did. I feel ur trying to start a fight. I am not interested.

[Firebringer]

council PT
I explained why i didn't want andante to have PR early in that thread. I didn't think it was magically useful now for her to have it.
I also explained why i changed my mind on giving math more money.

[Firebringer]

not useful for andante who was waffling hard on dats for like 2 days.

[Firebringer]

Obviously.

[Firebringer]

Okay, then im scum. I explained all my reasons and u disagree and can't come to my same conclusions. Are we done here?

[Firebringer]

can we not have an argument for pages about correct way to play the game for maximum town benefit or what is best play.
Its literally pointless and doesn't help solving.

[Firebringer]

can we not have an argument for pages about correct way to play the game for maximum town benefit or what is best play.
Its literally pointless and doesn't help solving.

An expected position from the person who wasted PR actions for ????

Wait till you hear what i plan to do next.

[Firebringer]

i don't think ur really looking at peoples mindset tho and i think thats not good for actually playing the game.

[Firebringer]

good work