Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[KittyTacky]

Meow! Missed the start, starting the read now.

[KittyTacky]

hello

i drew this catboy shin like half an hour ago, do y'all like it (i didn't draw the whole thing i just drew the ears)

also i'm drunk ama

VOTE: catboi

1. I like it.
2. Hi drunk, I am KittyTacky.

did bell actually try to fake a derp on page 1 lmao

It doesn't seem like a fake, this game is a little confusing.

Overall I dislike the early Bell wagon. Catboi loses brownie points despite backing out.

Star clan = town
Dark forest = mafia

any other clan seems to be like a neighborhood

Yeah they're hoods.

The Charloux slip case makes sense so far but I'll keep reading.

FOS: Charloux

is the postcap what's making y'all jumpy because it feels like you keep going off on things that are more arbitrary than scummy

I will have to adapt my style a bit.

catboi is town.

Why?

So guys, i'm trying to change my font and playstyle for this game. Tell me if you like it. <3

COMIC SAAAAANS

You know, all of these catvatars are a bit distracting because i can't differentiate the players anymore.

Skilldiff.

Are you the new Dr. Worm?

YES AND I AM ALSO SCRRRDBEAR

WHY DO YOU TALK IN ALL CAPS?

THUNDER CLAN WOULD LIKE TO ALLY WITH WIND CLAN. CAN YOU TWO TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF MARASHU AND ANSWER 196?

Marashu null. First answer flimsy, second answer makes sense, third doesn't.

VOTE: Charloux

Don't like the response to my stray claim on multiple levels.

Explain

I don't explain myself to scumreads.

Explain to everybody else then? You DO have multiple reasons, don't you?

If people want to know, I can. I don't take demands from scumreads.

That's what i thought
VOTE: Titus

VOTE: Charloux

Scarrdbear who is in your group that you know of?

MARASHU, PENGUIN, CHARLOUX AND MYSELF. YOURS?

4 total? We also have 4, or at least i think we do. No idea if there’s more that haven’t checked in yet.
The 4th player hasn’t posted much so idk if we should reveal yet? Maybe give it some time to think about it.

Me / Alisae / Val / ??

And me!!! I just missed the game start.

VOTE: Somethin_Smart

hello hi!! I have coarse, thick steel-gray fur and purr when you stroke my chin gonna go read clan pt then sleep xoxo

FOS SHIIDAJI

Why?

[KittyTacky]

It's Charloux.

[KittyTacky]

It's Charloux.

Are you scum?

I'm town.

[KittyTacky]

It's Charloux.

Are you scum?

I'm town.

*squints*
I believe you and I have no idea why.

It's because I'm town.

Kitty's vote seems too opportunistic, just hopped on the biggest wagon quoting a random post and affirming that i'm scum.

What? I was reading through the backlog. Any vote would be that way. And that post threw off scum vibes.

Mistyx, Datisi, Norweigan; What is even your goal with my wagon? Do you want me to explain my thought process for yesterday? Claim all my role details?
Explain my theory in detail? Do you want to get me to L-1 and act shocked when someone hammers?

My goal is to flip mafia.

Is this a death miller soft?

why wouldn't i be clam?

insert shin photoshopped onto a clam

Done.

okay yeah that makes sense

i'm probably gonna tentatively lean fire town for this; while i think he is capable of faking this thought process / noticing those things as scum, i think it is more likely to come from town, so

Yeah. For me, though, his posts REALLY pinged town, by tone.

Re: The whole Norwee case
You know, I'm convinced, VOTE: Norwee.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE COUNT 1.2

[4]

NorwegianboyEE

: mastina, Something_Smart, Mistyx, Bell
[3]

Datisi

: Dannflor, fireisredsir, Frozen Angel
[3]

Charloux

: Titus, KittyTacky, NorwegianboyEE
[2]

Val89

: Alisae, Datisi
[2]

Marashu

: PenguinPower, catboi
[1]

Titus

: Charloux
[1]

Alisae

: Val89
[1]

Mastina

: SCRRRDBEAR
[1]

Something_Smart

: Shiidaji
[1]

Dannflor

: Marashu

[2]

Not Voting

: Cephrir, Shiro

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

—

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate.

Day one ends in (expired on 2022-10-30 12:12:34).

MOD NOTES

• have fun!

• let us know if you have any questions, or if something's wrong!

• a joint mod iso may be found here!

You made a mistake! My vote is on Norwee!

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: kittytacky

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

the worst? how so?

its a bunch of quote stripes followed by one-liners with no thought put into them, half of them don't even say anything important, and he ends it with a really obviously opportunistic vote on half baked reasoning - just "I'm convinced" and absolutely nothing more which doesn't feel like he had real thoughts about norwee's alignment at all

It's about the most classically newbscum post you'll ever see

If you ever played with me, that's how I play as town lol. Lots of one-liners. I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction. And if I legit had nothing to add to a case I agreed with, what would I say besides "I agree"? Sheeping is not scummy.

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

[KittyTacky]

Well at least now I will have the will to be more active, I'm always jolted more into the game when I'm under pressure.

[KittyTacky]

Like, do you think you're out of scum range right now? Because so far I think you're in the middle of both your ranges.

no, no i don't think so. though, out of curiosity - if i had answered "yes, i do think i'm outside my scumrange here", then what would you do?

ftr, my poke towards you wasn't meant as a "catboi *should* have a read on me by now," it was a "i hoped he'd have a read on me by now, as that will potentially help me read him."

anyway, i like the reasoning for kittytacky being scum. upon my skim, i skipped that post because big post, but when i got back to it... it really did not say anything, huh. and the fact that he took the time to photoshop my avatar onto a clam (and photoshop it kind of *well*, considering the white pixels are barely visible), rather than, you know, do things in the game... yeah. it kind of reminds me of that one thing i did in smuggler's, where i also tried to be funny by posting an image instead of like, y'know, doing things. also, screw you for making me remember that game.

VOTE: kittytacky

after i eat, will get to isoing people to try to make sense of my weaker reads, and actually give reason for my stronger ones. interested in why mastina's so certain she's not misreading me here (despite fire specifically saying her reasoning is flawed - which i do agree with).

I did it because I had paint.net already open and thought, why not. As for why I'm not doing a whole lot, what can I even do when there's a case, or rather two cases, that I agree with the reasoning of? Legit question. If I have nothing to say, I say nothing instead of posting (even more) filler or made-up extra reasoning, because that's even scummier.

[KittyTacky]

I'm legit trying but it's hard. I also never played a large theme before.

[KittyTacky]

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

[KittyTacky]

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

can you elaborate on that townread?

I read through his walls and imo the reasoning within them is uninformed rather than informed and bent towards a conclusion he already knows.

[KittyTacky]

But yeah, finally I feel engaged now that I have something to do other than ask people questions (that often get ignored) and sheep a case.

[KittyTacky]

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

can you elaborate on that townread?

I read through his walls and imo the reasoning within them is uninformed rather than informed and bent towards a conclusion he already knows.

give me some examples please

i'm not really convinced this isn't conclusion first

I particularly like this post's vibe.

Rookie scum mistake to overreact to me expression my feelings on a fos.
Like do you self-consciously believe that a case was like coming onto you??? That's what I think is going on in the head of scum!you.
I did not vote you, and I asked Ceph "is this actually scum, or am I just reading everything as scummy"
But I am advancing a case on you???

Like, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Newer player rands wolf.
Newer player starts to feel like they are being suspected
Newer player overeacts and attacks the person in response to suspecting them
The person in return attacks them harder because the newer player is acting unnatural and unreasonably to the attacker.

i don't really understand what about this makes val scum tbh
like this narrative is one that could have happened if he was scum, but what makes you think that's most likely? what about it is not believable as coming from town?

Exactly, fire.

You'd know exactly the sort of reaction I think this is and why it's scum from you having made this sort of reaction when you were scum.

I think Alisae is scum here for similar reasons I thought your reaction to my claim made you scum. It's not

identical

, but it's

similar

--Alisae's reaction is overblown. Alisae's reaction is disproportionate. Alisae's reaction was a snap-reaction that was fairly OMGUSy. Sound familiar to you?

Because to me those are the hallmarks of scum that made a somewhat-panicked snap-decision to react to a town player hitting a nerve.

A town-Alisae WOULD put thought into how it could come from town. A town-Alisae would know the narrative was wrong, but not know that it came from scum. The instant judgement of Val being scum is incredibly damning for Alisae as being Alisae as scum having made a bit of an impulsive reaction that e wouldn't have made as town.

Yes, I know Alisae is impulsive regardless of alignment.
Yes, I know Alisae is reactive regardless of alignment.
Yes, I know Alisae can make OMGUSy moves as town.
Yes, I know Alisae can make snap-decisions and instantly come to a conclusion.

But there's a difference between 'can', and 'would'.

I believe a town-Alisae would not have the impulse to overreact to Val and instantly pivot to the OMGUSy push there. A town-Alisae might react to it, but not in the way e did.

I think there's a world of difference between the scenario from datisi's cafe that you're talking about and this game. In that game fire's reaction was to a

faked guilty

which carries a significant degree of weight to it - people are very likely to vote you for it and you can't really ignore it. Scum panicking and overreacting in that scenario is very understandable. By comparison a singular vote on Day 1 carries not much weight at all - it wasn't like val's case was particularly likely to get alisae killed on its own so I don't believe they would overreact in such a panicky way as scum. I

would

buy it if this was being done by a more raw or inexperienced player who would be more likely to feel threatened by minor suspicion. But someone who is actually good at scum knows 1 vote on day 1 doesn't mean all that much and isn't going to overreact. I just don't buy the argument that "alisae panicked because val was close to the truth", because my impression of alisae's scumgame is that they are significantly

less

impulsive (although this is secondhand knowledge). They might

fake

being impulsive since it's what people expect of them but a move like that doesn't strike me as particularly considered or tactical.

I also think describing it as "instantly pivoting" to an OMGUS doesn't really sum things up accurately - alisae had clearly shown suspicion of val prior to that point, and the response to val was an escalation of the read rather a sudden change of any sort. I think in particular the expression of "Rookie scum mistake to overreact to me expression my feelings on a fos" feels way more likely to come from town who feels like they've caught scum out with their suspicion and have baited them into a scummy response. I think it comes from a place of alisae having confidence in their own innocence and believing val's attack on them had no validity and must be coming from scum rather than any sort of survival instinct.

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

why so mad? it's like 3 or 4 votes

It grew fast and I got scared.

VOTE: kittytacky

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

the worst? how so?

its a bunch of quote stripes followed by one-liners with no thought put into them, half of them don't even say anything important, and he ends it with a really obviously opportunistic vote on half baked reasoning - just "I'm convinced" and absolutely nothing more which doesn't feel like he had real thoughts about norwee's alignment at all

It's about the most classically newbscum post you'll ever see

If you ever played with me, that's how I play as town lol. Lots of one-liners. I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction. And if I legit had nothing to add to a case I agreed with, what would I say besides "I agree"? Sheeping is not scummy.

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

can you talk about what specifically of the norwee case you found compelling? like what points stood out that you connected to?

I don’t want to believe Alisae is scum becauve they’ve been so helpful to me and seemed genuinely trying to solve me.

On the Norwee side of things I'm like 97.5% certain that this is Norwee's style of interacting with scumbuddies, especially when given a neighborhood with them. I swear that I've seen this verbatim from Norwee when Norwee was scum talking about a scumbuddy, but not seen once when Norwee was town.

I wish I could remember where so I could track it down, but like: I am

very

sure about this.

I got reminded of one of my first games that I remember well, Baseball I think, where Norwee was scum and they played pretty similar to how they play here. I think Alisae is pretty scummy too tbh.

I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction.

I'm legit trying but it's hard. I also never played a large theme before.

So like, are you just lying?
Because I don't believe you considering at a cursory look at your games where you don't even break past 200 posts in COMPLETED GAMES and we're only in d1.. Like, there are players in here that post way way more but you're the one that's struggling??? Like, 200 is such a lenient post cap I don't see how anyone can struggle as long as they show some restraint and like, actually post with purpose.

1. It's a psychological effect.
2. Normally I do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting that takes up a lot of posts, I can assure you I'd have made like 100+ posts if I played like I usually do.

But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

So...you're scum? If I look at what you post and what I think your motivation could be, the first thing I think is that your Norwee vote is comes from scum who is either working with mastina or hiding behind her which is something that would realistically make sense in a gamestate where town!norwee is true, which to me, it is?

Why is this your first conclusion instead of me just... sheeping a case that makes sense to me?

Trying to eliminate someone vulnerable pushing your scumbuddy?

[KittyTacky]

There's almost surely at least 1 scum in {Charloux, Alisae, Norwe}. Maybe 2.

[KittyTacky]

1. It's a psychological effect.
2. Normally I do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting that takes up a lot of posts, I can assure you I'd have made like 100+ posts if I played like I usually do.

Ok but like, what you're saying, and what is like, happening, is like, completely opposite of each other and actions say more about a person than what they say so...

--

Why is this your first conclusion instead of me just... sheeping a case that makes sense to me?

Trying to eliminate someone vulnerable pushing your scumbuddy?

Because I'm town and Norwee is also town???
How are these questions real things being asked??? You think you are sheeping something that makes sense and I think you are using that to justify hiding behind mastina.

1. How? I explained why I feel the post restriction stifles me a bit, even if it's mostly a mental pressure thing.
2. Explain why you think Norwee is town.

[KittyTacky]

lmao ok I’m done talking to you goodbye
VOTE: kittyTacky

OMGUS amogus.

[KittyTacky]

I'm town, I play weird but I'm town. Nothing else to say, if anyone has any questions you can ask.

[KittyTacky]

Just a heads up, it's my IRL birthday so I might not be very active. Will still try to catch up soon-ish.

[KittyTacky]

Why did you not respond to what i said.

I missed it. I often miss things, especially when I'm not quoted.

This?

I think Alisae is town.
Alisae thinks i am town.
Val thinks it’s really unlikely for me/Alisae team.

So what? We’re all scum saving each others ass?

Yes.

Just do the math and back off.

No.

[KittyTacky]

i think i would rather have marashu as a wagon than norwee right now

Then vote Marashu and not me. I'm town.

mastina can we kill kitty instead pls

I said my case as for why I'm town. My read for Mastina went from null to town BTW after a re-read.

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

How am I supposed to look at your motivation based on what you've offered? Because so far what you've offered is content that looks scummy to me followed by complaining about the game being hard for you when you got wagoned.

Elaborate on why is it scummy to sheep a case. What would I even have to add? I'm getting deja vu. And I'm not complaining, as I said I stop being lethargic with a bit of pressure on me.

I got reminded of one of my first games that I remember well, Baseball I think, where Norwee was scum and they played pretty similar to how they play here.

Why did you not say this in the first place when you voted norwee? Can you explain to me what you think is similar between those games?

1. I forgot to elaborate further.
2. The general vibe of his posts and interactions with people. I read a lot on tone.

[KittyTacky]

I was rereading.

I said my case as for why I'm town

you'll have noticed that i still think you're scum after it

Your mistake.

Why did you not respond to what i said.

I missed it. I often miss things, especially when I'm not quoted.

This?

I think Alisae is town.
Alisae thinks i am town.
Val thinks it’s really unlikely for me/Alisae team.

So what? We’re all scum saving each others ass?

Yes.

Just do the math and back off.

No.

Yah. Any chance for more nuanced thoughts from you would be great. Most players in my hood think your vote on me was bad. So any chance at learning more about your thoughts would be grand

The passive-aggressive tone and appeal to popularity here seems more likely scum than town imho.

KittyTacky's response to pressure is a lot different from what I remember of scum!KittyTacky in turing test

here there's a lot more indignation "This is my town game!!~" sorta stuff

there it was "sorry, I'm playing so poorly"

I went and took a look and I don't really see the difference you're talking about? Here's a few select posts from turing test:

Spoiler:

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

He is shading without specificity - which tends to be scum going through the motions rather than actually thinking about who is mafia

I do this as town tho.

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I was busy IRL and feeling out of this game, and I think Greeting is scummier at this point anyways.

@Kitty, I would really like your read on Vivax. Can we not run him up before this gets answered please?

Rather scummy.

I just... do poorly in mountainous games as I found out. It's slightly demoralizing having no play around PRs to find scum/town with.

Here's some posts from this game:

Spoiler:

and the post restriction (which makes no sense given him barely having any posts to begin with

I normally hyperpost my stream of consciousness, I would have already been close to bumping up against the limit if I didn't switch to wallposting. This is what kinda miffs me.

@marashu @kitty what are your reads on each other and what do you think about the cases on each other?

Marashu lowkey independently scum on tone (can't quite put my paw pad on it) but the case also makes sense, I'll switch if the Norwe wagon dies.

KittyTacky's response to pressure is a lot different from what I remember of scum!KittyTacky in turing test

here there's a lot more indignation "This is my town game!!~" sorta stuff

there it was "sorry, I'm playing so poorly"

Then vote Marashu and not me. I'm town.

I don't know what to make of this. Rather than town/scum this feels more like jester play at this point.

yeah idk Kitty might just be scum

I'm town.

I guess you could squint and say there's a bit of a tonal difference where in the other game he was more defeatist but the thing that's standing out to me is the over-reliance on excuses for lack of content - in the other game it was being busy and the setup being mountainous, here it's the game being a large theme and the post restriction (which makes no sense given him barely having any posts to begin with). Like, are these really all that different?

it's not a big difference no, I just mainly thought there was a contrast between

2.1 I am playing, just I feel I'm doing so poorly and I don't know what to do.

and "This is my fucking town game" from this game

Kitty feels marginally more invested in continuing to sort / explain reads / ask questions here than in Turing Test where he made a long string of contentless posts or posts lamenting that he was scum read

it's not really the biggest difference but it just gives me some pause

As scum I just collapse under heavy pressure if I can't think of a play (like a ballsy claim) to save the day. But as town I fight to the end. You can see this in all of my games.

I'm town, I play weird but I'm town. Nothing else to say, if anyone has any questions you can ask.

what are your reads

Charloux, Alisae, Marashu, Norwee varying degrees of scummy. Townleans on most others, but strong TRs on Datisi, fire, catboi, BEAR, and mastina.

I have also used a postcap as an excuse for low volume as scum lol

and I remember dwlee doing it in the geriatric game I modded

I mean why can't it be a town thing. I know it's irrational, but I am an emotional person.

Also: I agree that the post cap has a psychological impact. I bet that's why no one is doing fun things for me to enjoy

Yeah, kinda surprised that people don't get it. I'm not a robot...

also i think there is a very VERY big difference between me and kitty saying "i'll be posting less because of post cap" -- mainly because i have actually produced. alot of content DESPITE THE POSTING WHILE HE HASN'T

And? Different things affect people differently.

more in the vein of "if people are pushing this slot with inaccurate reasoning, why is that not an indicator that scum are faking a case on the slot"

if they wanna bus, they can

it doesn't change the fact that i think kitty is scummy and want to see him run up

This is town, doubt scum would latch on to a townie this hard.

---

Will continue with a second wall for sanity's sake.

[KittyTacky]

there is a whole lot of sass coming from datisi rnow and im associating that with towniness maybe incorrectly

I'd think scum would be more subtle. Datisi pretty strongly town, imo latching on to someone like a tick is more likely a town thing as scum rarely kamikazes like that.

KittyTacky occupies a space of... I would not be surprised at all if they flipped scum and they are overtly scummy, but that I have a hard time telling whether that scumminess is just a facet of their personality or not. and so I feel there are bigger and better fish to fry

Anyone who played with me often enough can attest to my weird playstyle. It often gets me scumread. But it's how I play.

ISO of kitty tacky I can see why the slot is scum read and I share the notion

The Charloux slip case makes sense so far but I'll keep reading. FOS: Charloux

the fos seems too vanilla and opportunistic and then on same post made jump on char wagon when they saw the titus vote for some reason? if you think it was a scum slip then you would vote right at start what was about the titus vote significant there?

them they are convinced by case on norwee and jumps on next popular wagon

---- so kitty votes at this point:
[4] KittyTacky: catboi, Cephrir, fireisredsir, Datisi
----

This wagon was legit when created and I can see the real push on it for solving in general

I wont go further in kitty iso yet as I wanna read rest of game as a whole and not iso first.

I was a little afraid of jumping on so early in my read. In general I don't vote at the start of backreads unless I see a second scummy post. That is what happened.

I guess that's not fair

I thought Kitty's entrance was scummy but I thought it was a different flavor than what I'd just seen in Turing Test and didn't really know what to make of that

One of my points of paranoia about you is just that Kitty feels too easy and I am not getting the same confidence on that slot as you are at all. And I'm having trouble putting myself in your shoes and getting the same level of confidence on Kitty as you.

like my head says Kitty is scum but my heart says maybe no

Right. You only played with me as scum. Here's the thing, I have something of a (true) reputation of being LHF town. I mostly play Normals though so I guess that's why I'm being scumread more in this theme.

VOTE: Kitty
Norwee abandon ship

Opportunism. Scum.

[KittyTacky]

This is town, doubt scum would latch on to a townie this hard.

so like does this apply to catboi too? why wouldn't scum be latching onto you hard?

1. I townread catboi too but not only for this.
2. Because I will flip town and they will look very bad.

[KittyTacky]

I saw kitty say my vote on his was opportunism lol I’m so done can we just kill the player I’m afk until they’re dead d1 is practically over for me
Also mastina pre-emptively defending herself from something that literally no one asked about is weirdge

Scummmmmmmmmm.

I normally hyperpost my stream of consciousness, I would have already been close to bumping up against the limit if I didn't switch to wallposting. This is what kinda miffs me.

in your entire history of playing, your post total for a full game, not just a day phase, has only ever once exceeded 200 (and one other time it was 199)

i get its a psychological thing but you really don't have to be concerned about the limit lol

I'll try to fight it.

[KittyTacky]

why is everyone so demotivated this isn't even a horrible D1 for a large

my d1 is over I want flips this is starting to drag

How about you or your scumbuddy?

I feel less like yeeting kittytacky after these most recent posts. They feel a little more substantial than his previous ones.

i don't

i think he's overly focused on himself and his analysis is pretty shallow

Well no shit I was focused on myself, I was getting attacked and had to defend myself.

[KittyTacky]

As for analysis I tend to read a lot on tone/gut so yes it probably seems shallow.

[KittyTacky]

why is norwee still a wagon i'm confused on that

bc having one wagon is bad

then why vote him over kitty

Because I'm town and Norwee is scum. Though that wagon is dying, intent to switch to Marashu if no claim is made by the time I finish my backread.

[KittyTacky]

talk about it more 'cus that doesn't make sense to me

Alisae really thinks Norwee is town based on hood stuff and a lot of people find that sketchy. Alisae is known to get pretty heated and emotional about things they strongly believe and I think it pretty likely that at least one of the two would do something that would reveal their true priorities if Norwee were under serious pressure.

i fake this because its what ur looking for if im wolf.

Aren't you supposed to be AFK?

[KittyTacky]

Uhh Kitty kinda claimed day miller in the thunder pt. Thought it was bs, but kinda makes sense now.

That was an obvious joke ya doof.

How would it even work as an actual role?

[KittyTacky]

I will say that T3 feels the most underwhelming content-wise in our hood overall when comparing all players.

They're catching up.

[KittyTacky]

why is norwee still a wagon i'm confused on that

bc having one wagon is bad

then why vote him over kitty

Because I'm town and Norwee is scum. Though that wagon is dying, intent to switch to Marashu if no claim is made by the time I finish my backread.

Ehh, Marashu wagon died, I'll keep sitting on Norwee.

[KittyTacky]

does T3 tend to struggle as scum

bc they're kind of reminding me of myself when i sub in as scum

In Sibyl's Elegy, they crashed and burned D1 as scum IIRC.

[KittyTacky]

But not in this way, here it's clearly just catching up and being out of the game rather than melting under pressure. T3 null imo.

[KittyTacky]

does T3 tend to struggle as scum

bc they're kind of reminding me of myself when i sub in as scum

In Sibyl's Elegy, they crashed and burned D1 as scum IIRC.

that is from a year and a half ago

That's the only T3 scum game I was in that I remember.

[KittyTacky]

mastina is teh best flip in the game
mastina wagon is the future

*gives a thumbs down*

[KittyTacky]

ALIVE

Alisae: scum
catboi: town
Charloux: scum
Datisi: town
NorwegianboyEE:scum
Bell: town
KittyTacky: town
Dannflor:town
Mistyx: town
SCRRRDBEAR: town
Titus: town
fireisredsir: town
mastina: town
Frozen Angel: town
Cephrir: town
Marashu: scum
Shiro: town
Something_Smart: town
Val89: town
Shiidaji: town
PenguinPower:town

DEAD

EVENTS

[KittyTacky]

Null = town

[KittyTacky]

But I don't have many nulls.

[KittyTacky]

My mastina TR is slowly eroding from these recent posts but I'm still not willing to vote there.

[KittyTacky]

The T3 flashwagon is so weird. I'd say it's +scum for Alisae but they are already rock bottom scummy along with Norwe, so.

[KittyTacky]

why is it scummy?

Because T3 doesn't seem to be faking imo and just seems to be genuinely struggling with catching up.

[KittyTacky]

Yes they are a null read but the wagon is still strange because I don't see a good reason for it.

[KittyTacky]

Might as well disclose it since scum likely know by now.
Titus joined Wind Clan and I asked in wind clan if we could potentially flashwagon T3 since I townread everyone else in hood. This makes sense since we were talking about if there was scum in the hood and I thought if there was scum in our hood its probs just T3.
Norwee agreed with the idea so I went with it. I obvs couldn't get to check in with Val or Shiro about it since time was kind off of the essence. It was an idea worth trying because maybe if we did say eliminate T3 and flip him before he could tell scum that Titus joined Wind Clan, that would be a huge edge to have over scum. This is assuming he does flip scum ofc.

Ah. Well I think you're scum, this wagon is scum-motivated, and so T3 is more likely town unless it's a bus. :shrug:

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Kitty
Norwee abandon ship

Opportunism. Scum.

Why do you think that Alisae’s vote on you was opportunism, but Dannflor’s vote wasn’t? He abandoned the mastina wagon to vote you for seemingly no reason.

Both were tbh but Alisae was even more so, just jumped on immediately after. Dann is towny imo, he just hasn't played with me as town before.

[KittyTacky]

Especially because Dannflor expressed significant doubt about the wagon on you multiple times before voting you, and you even quoted a post from Dannflor in the same post that you called Alisae opportunist, so you clearly saw Dannflor’s vote and doubt about the wagon on you.

If anything, Dannflor was more opportunist than Alisae. Alisae strongly scumread you and got into a conflict with you, expressing very little doubt as to your alignment. So, Alisae’s vote on you can be explained as town voting a scumread because there are more votes on the scumread, but Dannflor’s vote can be explained as inconsistent scum voting a limbait.

It was more that they switched right then and there once the wagon started building up again with Dann's vote in spite of shading me for a while before. Dann is townie for their other interactions in spite of the iffy vote tho.

[KittyTacky]

I'm just... not sure about mastina anymore. Her Norwe case really vibed with me but her recent posts pinged a little scummy.

[KittyTacky]

Anyways, since this day is kinda winding down, I wanna reignite me.

Ask me anything! Literally anything! Preferably related to the game.

[KittyTacky]

*reignite it

[KittyTacky]

I

could

be wrong on KittyTacky (to be honest I actually like KittyTacky's posts and they all look town to me, it's just that I've zero confidence in the townread there).

Then why am I "scum?"?

Honestly, mastina towncred goes up somewhat despite this little contradiction, I like the motivation that seems to be behind these walls. Town defensive, not scum defensive.

[KittyTacky]

Are we absolutely sure that executioner isn’t an possible role in this game?

I know right? It's a huge part of why I TR Datisi, since I am town, doing this as scum would be delayed suicide once I flip green.

[KittyTacky]

I called it. I fucking called it. Now let's catpile Norwe.

VOTE: Norwegian

[KittyTacky]

btw, you wanna hear how you do cancel culture right?

There's this misconception about cancel culture that to cancel someone you start personally attacking them.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense cause that's just being a shitty person.

Here is what you do.
Take who you wanna cancel, so KittyTacky in this case, and you do not engage with him. You do not interact with his posts. You do not engage about the topic other than telling people that you're not engaging with it and these are the reason's that you shouldn't engage with it.

Because this is the person that wrote this post.

VOTE: Kitty
Norwee abandon ship

Opportunism. Scum.

There is no talking to this person.
Talking to this person in main thread means you are wasting yours posts.
I MEAN JUST LOOK AT THIS

I called it. I fucking called it. Now let's catpile Norwe.

VOTE: Norwegian

This person is not worth your posts. He is only worth your vote.

Angry scum.

RE: Cephrir. We talked about it.

Pretty much, I came out with a paper thin town lean from the conversation. Something, something, timid raccoon reads,, something, something, not swayed by others when non-specific.

@KittyTacky: *blink* What did you call?

I called that Mastina is town. IDK why I am being flashwagoned. I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

[KittyTacky]

It is a true statement because I said Mastina is town and she flipped town. And I was pushing Norwe, I just wasn't posting a whole lot about it because I was busy defending myself.

[KittyTacky]

IDK KITTY I'M HAVING A HARD TIME BELIEVING ANYTHING YOU SAY. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE PLAYING SOME KIND OF CONFIDENCE GAME.

This is my town game.

[KittyTacky]

Get Norwe, then get Alisae.

[KittyTacky]

Angry scum.

WDYM?

The entire tone of that post is gross and dismissive. It's what I would do as frustrated scum with no real argument pushing a LHF townie.

kitty if you are town it would be helpful if you have some thoughts on the rest of the game I think

or like outlined your thought progression more

because right now everything you say just sounds kinda fake

when you say "Angry scum" it either sounds like false bravado or like you're trying to set up fake associatives or something for when you flip

so like less comments like that and more comments that elaborate on why you're reading specific people in specific ways

if you're town of course

if not, carry on

That is why I asked "ask me anything" yesterday but everyone ignored me.

People are telling me to engage more but at the same time not engaging with me when I try to facilitate that. So, ask me anything, take two.

[KittyTacky]

I have a bunch of thoughts but I need help formulating them and I want people to ask me questions.

[KittyTacky]

you have some thoughts on the rest of the game

it's hard to have any thought or anything meaningful to say when your reads are worse than random and you're blatantly not reading the game.

I don't believe Kitty has actually read anything me or Norwee posted that wasn't about him and I think he is just going to keep doing it so like just it's not worth engaging with

1. How do you know my reads are worse than random? Why do you think I am not reading the game when I responded to posts in huge walls? Fake.
2. I did. My conclusion was that you're both scum.

The entire tone of that post is gross and dismissive.

TBH I THINK YOU KIND OF SOUND LIKE THAT AND I THINK IT MIGHT BE AI FOR YOU BECAUSE I DON'T RECALL YOU PLAYING THIS WAY BEFORE.

As I said I am a little discouraged by people ignoring me when I am trying to engage beyond defending myself and pushing my scumreads.

Sure, sure
why is this your town game?

Because this is my town playstyle. I always talk weird, I am a little autistic and have difficulty talking to people naturally.

[KittyTacky]

I called that Mastina is town. IDK why I am being flashwagoned. I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

mm

why no comment on FA's reads? she's confirmed town and was actively targeted to be removed by scum

why not follow her reads?

Mastina vibes with me more, Mastina is also confirmed town and I'm like 80% sure that the wagon was fanned by scum.

[KittyTacky]

I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

Like, this is not real man.

*points to random post* THIS IS NOT REAL

And I'm the one not playing? Your case on me amounts to "his tone is weird".

[KittyTacky]

I have a bunch of thoughts but I need help formulating them and I want people to ask me questions.

I think I would counter that you've made it hard for people to meaningfully engage with you

can you talk about your strongest reads on people outside of norwe/alisae and most importantly why

I don't really care who you talk about as long as you include the why

1. I literally asked people to ask me stuff and got not a single question that day.
2. Sure.

Datisi

is strongly town as I think only town would push this hard on someone. There's a genuine conviction there. Scum would be a bit or a lot more cautious pushing a townie.

Titus

is town. Her posts show a pretty decent progression and a town motivation.

Bell

and

fireisred

too for the same reason, the latter I have doubts on though.

SCRRRD

is pretty obvtown for me from the motivation I see behind their posts, looking past the aggressive post gimmick.

[KittyTacky]

Alisae's "case" on me is all flash no substance BTW. Lots of smarmy rhetoric, little behind it. Contrast with Datisi who seems more genuine.

the latter I have doubts on though

why

It just feels hard to read them.

[KittyTacky]

2. Sure. Datisi is strongly town as I think only town would push this hard on someone. There's a genuine conviction there. Scum would be a bit or a lot more cautious pushing a townie. Titus is town. Her posts show a pretty decent progression and a town motivation. Bell and fireisred too for the same reason, the latter I have doubts on though. SCRRRD is pretty obvtown for me from the motivation I see behind their posts, looking past the aggressive post gimmick.

where is the decent progression and town motivation from titus?

what has impressed you from fire? i'm still waiting for him to excite me

1. The stuff early D1 pinged town for me on an ISO read, and

I am not a beacon of obvtown, but do not consider giving me warrior powers until I say I'm eligible. This is not a fakeout.

seems very town-motivated.

2. I liked the exchange around the late 700s. Sent town vibes.

snip

[KittyTacky]

As I said I am a little discouraged by people ignoring me when I am trying to engage beyond defending myself and pushing my scumreads.

I STILL READ DISGUST AND DISMISSIVENESS INTO YOUR POSTS. FOR EXAMPLE HERE I THINK YOU'RE DISMISSING WHAT I SAID SO YOU CAN TRY TO PLAY THE VICTIM IN ORDER TO GET WHAT YOU WANT. I THINK THIS BEHAVIOR IS AI FOR DARK ONE.

Alisae's "case" on me is all flash no substance BTW. Lots of smarmy rhetoric, little behind it. Contrast with Datisi who seems more genuine.

the latter I have doubts on though

why

It just feels hard to read them.

I THINK THIS LOOKS PRETTY SELF CONSCIOUS AND IS THROWN IN HERE TO CREATE DISTANCE BETWEEN KITTY AND DATISI. I DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS SCUM TRYING TO IMPLICATE DATISI, I THINK THIS IS SCUM TRYING TOO HARD TO CREATE ANTI-ASSOCIATIVES BETWEEN THEMSELVES AND DATISI.

1. Yes I am disgusted by the fact that Alisae is pushing me with one step above naked votes and people are following her. And I did not dismiss what you said.
2. What about my argument for Datisi town doesn't make sense?

[KittyTacky]

It is a true statement because I said Mastina is town and she flipped town. And I was pushing Norwe, I just wasn't posting a whole lot about it because I was busy defending myself.

Yes because pulling an Mastina where you just say some absolutely dumb shit like: "We flipped town and that means their asinine scumread is correct" will get you somewhere.
I’m sure Mastina is cheering for you in dead thread, but fact is that they were simply wrong and didn’t have a good point other than whatever the fuck a "soulread" means for them. So why are you sheeping it?
Give me a good answer or i’ll vote you. I don’t give a fuck.

This is 100% how you play as scum, I remember it pretty clearly. Also tone tbh. Like this post has a caught frustrated scum vibe.

[KittyTacky]

Sheeping is not a naked vote.

[KittyTacky]

There's a genuine conviction there. Scum would be a bit or a lot more cautious pushing a townie.

YOU DON'T CONSIDER THAT THIS IS FAKED?

VOTE: TITUS

I did consider it but came to the conclusion that it isn't.

[KittyTacky]

People are telling me to engage more but at the same time not engaging with me when I try to facilitate that. So, ask me anything, take two.

this feels like... something scum would say, i think? like it's showing a clear misunderstanding of what people actually want from him.

is it exactly scummy? ehh, i dunno. his play already has so much scummy in it, i probably don't even need this point, but it felt like something that i should call out anyway.

oh yeah, also i DID ask kitty questions about his townread on me, and yet he did not respond. funny.

1. Again I am autistic, I misunderstand things as town too. Misinterpreting things is NAI for me.
2. OK.
3. I must have missed them, I will respond now (or rather tomorrow as I'm about to go to sleep) if you point me to these posts but I have already explained my townread enough I feel.

[KittyTacky]

I called that Mastina is town. IDK why I am being flashwagoned. I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

I think you know very well why you are being flashwagoned. What makes you think town can't make mistakes? And i'm pretty sure people can't read souls, so this whole line of thought is redundant.

Of course town can make mistakes but I don't think mastina did there. But I may be deathtunneling Norwe too much.

Get Norwe, then get Alisae.

Why not Alisae first? You better not say you are following Mastina's instructions and turned your brain off.

I'm fine with Alisae too, in fact I will switch since people are unwilling to vote Norwe.

I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

Like, this is not real man.

*points to random post* THIS IS NOT REAL

And I'm the one not playing? Your case on me amounts to "his tone is weird".

She didn't say your post is fake. She said "this is not real" in disbelief.

I read it as "the tone here is faked".

Btw say a number between 1 and 67

32

VOTE: Alisae

[KittyTacky]

I have basically not been thinking about this game at all because it pained me to do so but I am back now so let's go

why is it scummy?

Because T3 doesn't seem to be faking imo and just seems to be genuinely struggling with catching up.

Yes they are a null read but the wagon is still strange because I don't see a good reason for it.

Might as well disclose it since scum likely know by now.
Titus joined Wind Clan and I asked in wind clan if we could potentially flashwagon T3 since I townread everyone else in hood. This makes sense since we were talking about if there was scum in the hood and I thought if there was scum in our hood its probs just T3.
Norwee agreed with the idea so I went with it. I obvs couldn't get to check in with Val or Shiro about it since time was kind off of the essence. It was an idea worth trying because maybe if we did say eliminate T3 and flip him before he could tell scum that Titus joined Wind Clan, that would be a huge edge to have over scum. This is assuming he does flip scum ofc.

Ah. Well I think you're scum, this wagon is scum-motivated, and so T3 is more likely town unless it's a bus. :shrug:

I have a big issue with this and it's that the reasoning is essentially circular - alisae is scummy for wagoning T3, T3 is null but he's more likely to be town because alisae is wagoning him, there's no root reasoning for any of it. I thought alisae's reason for the vote was basically fine even if the declaration of "we gotta flashwagon T3" was weird

Not just for wagoning T3, also for pushing me with a very fluffy reasoning, like she just jumped on a forming LHF wagon.

and as far as I can tell kittytacky has basically never, at any point, had a coherent reason for calling alisae scum?

I admit I should have been more articulate with my read on her but I was busy deathtunneling, genuinely my mistake.

"I think Alisae is pretty scummy too tbh." + some suggestion that alisae is chainsawing for norwee
"OMGUS"
"Charloux, Alisae, Marashu, Norwee varying degrees of scummy."
"Opportunism." (for voting him)
"Scummmmmmmmmm."
"How about you or your scumbuddy?"
"Aren't you supposed to be AFK?
*gives a thumbs down*
"The T3 flashwagon is so weird. I'd say it's +scum for Alisae but they are already rock bottom scummy along with Norwe, so."

Like, looking at this stuff...I don't get the sense kittytacky is actually trying to evaluate alisae's alignment at all

False

, there's no case

False

, no examination of posts

What is there to examine when basically all of her case is fluff itself?

, literally no substance to the read

How so?

, he's just repeating alisae is scum ad nauseam without actually explaining why at any point

I just explained it. And I'm fairly sure I did before.

. There's only so much you can fall back on "this is my playstyle" as a defense

And I'm not doing that here

. Even less talkative players usually have some visible line of thought but I'm not really getting that at all with kittytacky

My fault honestly

, I can't tell where the scumread actually originated from

Her opportunistic shitpush on me and chainsaw of Norwe

and everything past that point has basically been accusing alisae of scum for pushing him. The stuff about T3 basically set off a flag for me because it's basically starting from the presumption alisae is scum and then painting everything they do as scummy. I'm just not seeing the substance here, at all.

[KittyTacky]

If this style of response is too annoying, I apologize but I cba to make 15 quotes.

[KittyTacky]

Good nyaight.

[KittyTacky]

ok his posts on page 77 do be looking kinda fake tho

English is not my first language so I struggle with getting tone across.

[KittyTacky]

it is serious. I’m not going to engage with the player anymore considering I saw a post in mini theme q where he declared himself a troll and said he ruins games. I actively hate this shit.

It was a joke, my fucking God.

ok his posts on page 77 do be looking kinda fake tho

English is not my first language so I struggle with getting tone across.

do you have anything that's not excuses

Not an excuse, I legit have difficulties getting myself across but I'm trying.

[KittyTacky]

Mastina says my reads are "worse than random" but how on Earth would an uninformed player know that. I won't say it's an outright slip but I wonder why nobody else is paying attention to that when a townread of mine was flipped and turned out to be town.

[KittyTacky]

*Alisae

[KittyTacky]

If he is getting discouraged and is town then maybe he should learn play better. Maybe use his brain to think, not rely on other people engaging you (because no one gives a fuck about the fact no one is engaging you even if u are asking for it, it’s on you to engage. This isn’t pre-school where we are holding each other’s hands to walk across the street), have his own reads, less defending himself, and more hunting. Maybe he wouldn’t be in this position then? Like he uses the fact he has to defend himself as an excuse? I hate it lol

I’ve seen no reason to engage with the wolf and others will come to the conclusion as well.

And I'm trying to engage, thank you.

sorry i didn't mean to imply i don't believe you about that i just feel like you're always ready with a defense but getting actual content out of you is like pulling teeth

do you have any response to 2118?

Will do when I get to in in my backread of 7 pages.

Mastina says my reads are "worse than random" but how on Earth would an uninformed player know that. I won't say it's an outright slip but I wonder why nobody else is paying attention to that when a townread of mine was flipped and turned out to be town.

it's just a roundabout way of saying e thinks your reads are incorrect

Ah.

[KittyTacky]

i say that mainly because it consists mostly of promises to catch up which never result in anything

Yeah I'm also not so sure about letting them live until they catch up, feels like it's taking too long, definitely in my limpool for today.

[KittyTacky]

Like I'm not even sure if the "he said he ruins games so I'm not engaging with him" is genuine tbh. If it is and you took my self-deprecating joke about UNINTENTIONALLY ruining games badly, I'm sorry and I didn't mean it that way. If it isn't, nice cover for essentially naked pushing me.

[KittyTacky]

I'm sorry look at this - kittytacky describes titus in the absolute most generic terms possible, and then when questioned on it by ceph gives a nonanswer about "their stuff early on Day 1" without citing anything. He claims to like her "progression" but never says on

what

. Then he pulls up literally one of the most recent posts she made for the argument. I don't believe this is a real read from someone who is trying to solve the game, at all.

(relatedly, kind of like that ceph is asking these questions)

One flaw I have is that I may like/dislike most of a series of posts but have difficulties finding

what

to point to. I legit tried my best to explain what is mostly a gut read because I was pushed to.

[KittyTacky]

1. your claimed excuse for being inactive early day 1 doesn't make much sense because there's no reason to believe your usual output in games would be at risk of getting postcapped.

I explained it several times already, it was psychological pressure since I never played with such a restriction before and got subconsciously scared.

2. your vote on norwee looked like an opportunistic scum one (something I also agreed with)

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

So I think both of these are fallacious and just scum latching on.

[KittyTacky]

I really don’t care about the meta of some troll if that’s how u sort them good for u.

Other people can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think that engaging with the slot to me is a waste of posts. I mean I think the guy posts like an open wolf npc but I mean maybe more people need more time to reach that conclusion? I’m just saying why I’m not engaging with it, and you shouldn’t either it’s not worth ur posts.

i don't think they're actually a troll,

they just often get eliminated.

and there's a difference between saying that you're not going to engage with the posts anymore and encouraging other people not to. that's the part i don't really get. i get it in situations where the person is like spamming or just being a nuisance or whatever, but i don't really feel like that applies here?

idk maybe im just sensitive to the sentiment he gave of getting discouraged by feeling like people are ignoring him when he tries to get more engaged, so then seeing you basically telling everyone to ignore him is like... feels like targeted towards shutting down any chance of him showing himself as town if he is

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

Keep in mind that for a while I exclusively played normals so the normal regulars got used to my weird meta. But now I'm playing my first large theme, with many people who never saw me before so I get scumread as town.

[KittyTacky]

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

i was actually surprised how little he got eliminated when i looked, you're right

what i (and i think alisae) was referring to tho was a comment where i think he called himself limbait or something. so even if he doesn't actually get eliminated he still is like regularly in that pool of people who are suspected

but true my bad, that is not strictly correct, i think the sentiment is tho

okay so that's kind of a weird response because I'm not sure what "the sentiment is correct" is supposed to mean? like if he does not get miseliminated often as town it does not happen. we're arguing facts not feelings here.


and I had this really dumb theory forming in my head that kittytacky told the scum PT "I suck I always get eliminated" and fire just came in assuming kittytacky meant as

both

alignments when that is not actually true

and this whole argument by fire is him trying to divert pressure off kittytacky because he's usually pretty averse to bussing but he didn't bother to actually fact check like he would as town

idk its just not really relevant to the point? i was talking with alisae when she called him a troll bc he made a comment somewhere that he ruins games. and i was saying that he made that comment bc he views himself as limbait and often gets pushed, not because he is actively trying to troll. like the point is the same whether he gets eliminated or not, and it also wasn't a point that has anything to do with his alignment in this game, it was a point about whether he deserves to be ignored or not. this isn't a gotcha lol

and i mean i did look at his games earlier when i was checking postcounts i feel like thats p verifiable

and when i looked again later i did focus more on looking at his scumgames to see how he responded to pressure in them so maybe that made me forget how often he actually gets elimmed

im also probably more likely to fact check as scum tbh, as town i know that it isn't relevant to the point im making so i don't care

^^^^^^^

I might not get eliminated as town very often but I almost always get run up. Odd game where I don't get wagoned as town early.

[KittyTacky]

B. I see literally no reason he should actually believe he's limbait as town??

Because even if I don't get limmed I almost always get cased. Like here for example.

[KittyTacky]

Now I just feel bad that my joke about being limbait was taken like a trollclaim apparently.

[KittyTacky]

I don't think Charloux is particularly scummy anymore, just not feeling it, so today's limpool for me is {Alisae, Norwe, T3}.

[KittyTacky]

I have also just passed 2000 total posts during this catchup.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Shiro

Don't mind me.

Why Shiro?

[KittyTacky]

I didn't accuse people of being opportunistic in those games because I did not see opportunism; I just saw misguided townies. And I don't counterpush people I just think are wrong town. So this isn't a tell, this is just me acting under different circumstances.

[KittyTacky]

No shit I would also do it as scum because it would increase my win rate as scum to do so, even when there's no opportunism and I just want to discredit my attackers.

But I also say it as town when I genuinely see someone who looks like scum (Alisae here) pushing LHF townie me.

[KittyTacky]

I did it once I'm gonna do it again.

[KittyTacky]

1. your claimed excuse for being inactive early day 1 doesn't make much sense because there's no reason to believe your usual output in games would be at risk of getting postcapped.

I explained it several times already, it was psychological pressure since I never played with such a restriction before and got subconsciously scared.

2. your vote on norwee looked like an opportunistic scum one (something I also agreed with)

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

So I think both of these are fallacious and just scum latching on.

what changed for catboi? why is it that catboi is scum latching onto you, but i am still a strong townread for being "aggressive" or whatever, when all i've done in the past few days is gone "ye catboi make good case"? why is catboi not in your limpool in 2180?

also, something about kitty backtracking in 2170 feels off. just like. idk. originally he called titus town for "decent progression and motivation" in 1935, and then was pushed to explain it, but like... why not immediately say it's gut? why essentially make up reasoning about it? why not link multiple posts? why not mention the word "gut" at any point before your reasoning is called out for not making any sense?

1. I still think catboi is town, I was talking about Alisae latching onto me day 1 and not catboi.
2. Because I was afraid of getting attacked for not providing a concrete reason if I just said "it's gut" so I brought up things I liked about her, independently of gut, however slight.

[KittyTacky]

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

A case that made sense to nobody else and that Mastina themselves admitted wouldn't make sense to anyone other than her.
So why did you somehow "get it"?

I believe Mastina when she said that you interact with scumbuddies the way you talked to certain people D1 and also I remember you in Baseball very well.

[KittyTacky]

No shit I would also do it as scum because it would increase my win rate as scum to do so, even when there's no opportunism and I just want to discredit my attackers.

But I also say it as town when I genuinely see someone who looks like scum (Alisae here) pushing LHF townie me.

I don't like how you don't explain your votes and then call yourself LHF to get off the hook.
When trying to understand you all we get is what can be summarized as excuses.

I'm not even confident you are scum tbh, but all of this stuff adds together and makes me very unsure about you.

I'm explaining them as best as I can.

[KittyTacky]

FINALLY CAUGHT UP

readlist incoming

Curious timing.

[KittyTacky]

Anyways, care to provide at least a few words of reasoning for your reads?

[KittyTacky]

ok i see what i actually want to ask here:

kitty, why do you think that alisae's reasoning is bad? what makes you think it's scum latching on and that it can't come from town? because both the reasons that catboi lined out it 2119 are something that i strongly agree with makes you look suspicious, despite your excuses for them

I explained my reasons in the very post I quoted. Why is it so inconcievable that someone who's never played with even a lenient post restriction would be anxious about it? Yes it is irrational but people aren't robots. I got over it anyways, with some difficulty. As for the latter, idk why people see me simply sheeping something as opportunistic. Just because I had little to add?

[KittyTacky]

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

A case that made sense to nobody else and that Mastina themselves admitted wouldn't make sense to anyone other than her.
So why did you somehow "get it"?

I believe Mastina when she said that you interact with scumbuddies the way you talked to certain people D1 and also I remember you in Baseball very well.

When i talked to who?
Also i looked up Baseball and i didn't even remember playing in that game until looking it up lmao.

Alisae. And I have a great memory for things like people's playstyle in games.

[KittyTacky]

FINALLY CAUGHT UP

readlist incoming

Curious timing.

Bullshit. If you did any research at all you would find that I most commonly post between 7:30 and 8:30 EST every morning on weekdays, because I’m commuting then.

Like yeah, sure, I would understand if you were coming from a place of “oh, T3 showed up as there is a wagon on him, that’s scummy timing.” But instead you’re saying it’s

curious

timing. This suggests you’re trying to avoid explicitly shading me.

I thought I

was

explicitly shading you, when have you last seen "curious" used in a non-shadey context? And you didn't mention it in any game I remember playing with you, so I'm sorry for that.

[KittyTacky]

Like yeah, sure, I would understand if you were coming from a place of “oh, T3 showed up as there is a wagon on him, that’s scummy timing.” But instead you’re saying it’s

curious

timing. This suggests you’re trying to avoid explicitly shading me.

WHY TITUS TOWN THOUGH?

This question evasion is sus amogus.

[KittyTacky]

I defend myself to the last breath as town.

[KittyTacky]

ok i see what i actually want to ask here:

kitty, why do you think that alisae's reasoning is bad? what makes you think it's scum latching on and that it can't come from town? because both the reasons that catboi lined out it 2119 are something that i strongly agree with makes you look suspicious, despite your excuses for them

I explained my reasons in the very post I quoted. Why is it so inconcievable that someone who's never played with even a lenient post restriction would be anxious about it? Yes it is irrational but people aren't robots. I got over it anyways, with some difficulty. As for the latter, idk why people see me simply sheeping something as opportunistic. Just because I had little to add?

that's not my question

i am asking whether you think alisae's thoughts can or can't come from town

because i agree with them and you think i'm town

but you think alisae is scummy for them

so what is it

Because I think your push on me is strongly town and that overpowers having shitty reasons. Why? Because if you were scum you wouldn't deathpush a townie that hard day 1. It would likely result in your death the next day or at the very least prevent you from reaching endgame.

Also why do you agree with them?

[KittyTacky]

I didn't accuse people of being opportunistic in those games because I did not see opportunism; I just saw misguided townies. And I don't counterpush people I just think are wrong town. So this isn't a tell, this is just me acting under different circumstances.

yea i mean thats my point. it seems like you are much more likely as town to see the people pushing you as misguided townies

you're acting under different circumstances, and one of those circumstances is your alignment

No, the different circumstances here are the content of the pushes. Haven't you thought that I simply... did not see opportunism in those games? After all, I did this as town before, I can indeed see people being opportunistic when I'm town.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Kitty

Kitty out of curiosity did you always list your location in your profile? I don't remember seeing it before.

Since almost a year ago, maybe you didn't notice it.

[KittyTacky]

Or more than a year rather.

[KittyTacky]

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

A case that made sense to nobody else and that Mastina themselves admitted wouldn't make sense to anyone other than her.
So why did you somehow "get it"?

I believe Mastina when she said that you interact with scumbuddies the way you talked to certain people D1 and also I remember you in Baseball very well.

When i talked to who?
Also i looked up Baseball and i didn't even remember playing in that game until looking it up lmao.

Alisae. And I have a great memory for things like people's playstyle in games.

Did not you pay attention to the fact that both Val and Shiro said that you'd be stupid to think i'm partnered with Alisae.
Unless you think we are somehow all 4 scum in the same hood. Some of us are telling the truth about the fact that it is pretty darn unlikely me and Alisae are partnered here.
So your "i am talking to Alisae in a partnered way" is kinda bollocks reasoning. Got any more? Also i'd like to understand what exactly it is you read as "partnered" too.

1. Well I think they're wrong. Maybe I am stupid.
2. Not 4 scum, 2 scum, why would being wrong make Val and Shiro scum.
3.

Omg Alisae the betrayal. You can't just show the world my feelings like that.

I don’t want to believe Alisae is scum becauve they’ve been so helpful to me and seemed genuinely trying to solve me.

I think that’s a slight misrep of the actual situation Val.
Alisae came with leading questions after asking me if i had reads and i was very vocal about the fact that i was struggling to get into the game.
So i don’t believe this was malicious or unwarranted from Alisae.
The point about Alisae giving me a townread is fair in that i’m not sure i understand their actual reasoning, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there. Merwly that it might have been left unexplained.

idk this is gutty but I'm getting real bad vibes from these interactions.

[KittyTacky]

ok i see what i actually want to ask here:

kitty, why do you think that alisae's reasoning is bad? what makes you think it's scum latching on and that it can't come from town? because both the reasons that catboi lined out it 2119 are something that i strongly agree with makes you look suspicious, despite your excuses for them

I explained my reasons in the very post I quoted. Why is it so inconcievable that someone who's never played with even a lenient post restriction would be anxious about it? Yes it is irrational but people aren't robots. I got over it anyways, with some difficulty. As for the latter, idk why people see me simply sheeping something as opportunistic. Just because I had little to add?

that's not my question

i am asking whether you think alisae's thoughts can or can't come from town

because i agree with them and you think i'm town

but you think alisae is scummy for them

so what is it

Because I think your push on me is strongly town and that overpowers having shitty reasons. Why? Because if you were scum you wouldn't deathpush a townie that hard day 1. It would likely result in your death the next day or at the very least prevent you from reaching endgame.

Also why do you agree with them?

mm

can you reconcile this logic with your read on like, ali?

it feels like you're willingly applying that to certain people over others and idk how to feel about it

I'd think Datisi was scum if not for their push on me which I feel is strongly a town thing.

[KittyTacky]

Why is a push on you a townie thing?

As I explained before...

Do you remember how hard Datisi pushed on me day 1? Do you think that if they were scum they would expect to survive long after I flip town if they succeeded? I doubt it. It could just be a stupid scum play or WIFOM but I think they're town.

[KittyTacky]

I'd think Datisi was scum if not for their push on me which I feel is strongly a town thing.

THIS DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT

If it doesn't look right because there's not much explanation, it's because I explained myself like 3 times before.

[KittyTacky]

Because if you were scum you wouldn't deathpush a townie that hard day 1. It would likely result in your death the next day or at the very least prevent you from reaching endgame.

i have reached endgame as scum after shitpushing weak townies out of the game, thank you very much (yes, this is me saying i would absolutely do it, which i have been hinting at for a bit and idk how you don't seem to notice that)

and also why doesn't this apply to alisae? by the same logic, they're also going to be struggling to reach endgame after you flip green, no?

1. Well then, my fault for applying how I would play to other people. Still think you're town tho.
2. Because Alisae's push was very different in tone and content. It's mostly an indifferent "point finger and say he's trolling" instead of like a genuine conviction. I.e what I would expect someone rusty to do, since Alisae took a large break IIRC? And e would have a better excuse.

[KittyTacky]

Bell - Several posts made by him felt very genuine, and I liked his response to FA’s case on him. I think someone said he is out of his scum range, and from my experience with Bell I would agree.
Titus - I don’t think that scum!Titus would be so open about her mech information, both from my impression of her as a player and from her play in Datisi’s cafe. She made a complicated masonizer claim when wagoned, but she left no kind of crumb or soft prior to her claim, which leads me to believe scum!Titus probably wouldn’t go out of her way to fake all her mech info. I don’t have much about her play this game that I feel particularly strongly about.

Honestly only providing two read reasons out of the whole list when the whole thing is pretty vague and confusing isn't helping your case.

[KittyTacky]

Alisae wagon probably not going anywhere despite my best efforts, T3 is fine too.
VOTE: T3

FOS: Alisae

[KittyTacky]

I think I may be underestimating T3. Since I’m basically evaluating him as newbie scum.
Which isn’t really true, given they’ve been playing for years.

T3 has a slightly odd playstyle but stuff like this is scummy regardless of playstyle imo.

[KittyTacky]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

Nah I feel coughing up a weird and mostly unexplained list after catching up for so long is scummy and not =rand.

[KittyTacky]

The T3 flashwagon is so weird. I'd say it's +scum for Alisae but they are already rock bottom scummy along with Norwe, so.

why is it scummy?

Because T3 doesn't seem to be faking imo and just seems to be genuinely struggling with catching up.

Might as well disclose it since scum likely know by now.
Titus joined Wind Clan and I asked in wind clan if we could potentially flashwagon T3 since I townread everyone else in hood. This makes sense since we were talking about if there was scum in the hood and I thought if there was scum in our hood its probs just T3.
Norwee agreed with the idea so I went with it. I obvs couldn't get to check in with Val or Shiro about it since time was kind off of the essence. It was an idea worth trying because maybe if we did say eliminate T3 and flip him before he could tell scum that Titus joined Wind Clan, that would be a huge edge to have over scum. This is assuming he does flip scum ofc.

Ah. Well I think you're scum, this wagon is scum-motivated, and so T3 is more likely town unless it's a bus. :shrug:

how did we go from here to putting t3 in poe to voting there

Quite a while passed, when I made those posts he pmuch just started catching up so I thought he was town, then much of D2 passed and he... yea.

Reads change, mate. I suck at this game. I can change my opinion especially on null people.

[KittyTacky]

Listening to him explain his reads makes me think he doesn't understand the game at all. This is why I've been saying that his reads are actually just below random. The way he talks about his reads, how he got them, and like, why, is just incredibly weak and makes me think he would actually just be better off RNGing his vote.

I have a lot of thoughts and I at least like to believe I am mediocre at reading, my main issue is

putting it to words

and not accidentally looking scummy. I have a decent winrate. I still suck and am an idiot yes but I am not a total noob.

[KittyTacky]

This response to my defense seems... genuine? I still think Alisae is somewhat scummy but yeah I'm set on T3 for now.

[KittyTacky]

but also i do kinda think its possible that kitty and t3 are both scum, the way that kitty moved onto there felt weird to me and could be motivated

Elaborate?

[KittyTacky]

This is why I've been saying that his reads are actually just below random. The way he talks about his reads, how he got them, and like, why, is just incredibly weak and makes me think he would actually just be better off RNGing his vote.

Seems pretty easy to attack.

TOWN KT HAS GOOD READS THOUGH IMO, OR AT LEAST AVERAGE.

The one person I had a solid read on that we have a flip of (Mastina) I did read correctly, soooooo...

[KittyTacky]

I mean how on Earth would you know about the quality of my reads so early unless you are informed or scum?

[KittyTacky]

I really don’t care about the meta of some troll if that’s how u sort them good for u.

Other people can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think that engaging with the slot to me is a waste of posts. I mean I think the guy posts like an open wolf npc but I mean maybe more people need more time to reach that conclusion? I’m just saying why I’m not engaging with it, and you shouldn’t either it’s not worth ur posts.

i don't think they're actually a troll,

they just often get eliminated.

and there's a difference between saying that you're not going to engage with the posts anymore and encouraging other people not to. that's the part i don't really get. i get it in situations where the person is like spamming or just being a nuisance or whatever, but i don't really feel like that applies here?

idk maybe im just sensitive to the sentiment he gave of getting discouraged by feeling like people are ignoring him when he tries to get more engaged, so then seeing you basically telling everyone to ignore him is like... feels like targeted towards shutting down any chance of him showing himself as town if he is

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING KT GET MISLIMMED AS TOWN OR EVEN GET PRESSURED ALL THAT MUCH BEYOND NORMAL D1 PUSHES.

I get a ton of pressure D1/D2 nearly always is what I am alreays pretty scared of. The only reason I don't get mislimmed much is because I defend like a cornered badger.

I mean how on Earth would you know about the quality of my reads so early unless you are informed or scum?

didn't you literally just quote and respond to the part where they explain this

Except Alisae has never played with me period, I am always a bit light on read explanations and I'm trying to improve but I can't.

[KittyTacky]

But like it's a fact that I actually did read the one flip we know correctly? I still have no idea where the oft-repeated "his reads are worse than random" comes from.

[KittyTacky]

But like it's a fact that I actually did read the one flip we know correctly?

why do you keep repeating this as if it actually means anything or matters for anything

Because what else would "KT's reads are worse than random" mean?

[KittyTacky]

Listening to him explain his reads makes me think he doesn't understand the game at all. This is why I've been saying that his reads are actually just below random. The way he talks about his reads, how he got them, and like, why, is just incredibly weak and makes me think he would actually just be better off RNGing his vote.

I have a lot of thoughts and I at least like to believe I am mediocre at reading, my main issue is

putting it to words

and not accidentally looking scummy. I have a decent winrate. I still suck and am an idiot yes but I am not a total noob.

You don't know how to put it into words because you're an idiot and you don't understand the game.

All of your stances are arbitrary. Think of it as a math equation. One may be able to get the right answer but if they the solved the problem in a way that's incorrect, then the answer is wrong. I'm good enough and have the game knowledge and experience to be able to look at another player and just tell who is experienced and who isn't and sucks and is just an idiot. I've played so so many games.

You may have reads, you may have a way you reached those conclusions, but you don't actually know what are the things that town actually do and you don't know what the things that scum actually do and I'm able to deduce this based on the reads you have, how, and why and your posts. You literally post like you suck and have below random reads.

Well at least I'm trying. Keep in mind that I took a break for like 6 months and I don't have nearly as much experience with the game as you. But still, I just... can't see what exactly is wrong with my reasoning this game other than it sometimes being a bit poorly explained?

But like it's a fact that I actually did read the one flip we know correctly?

why do you keep repeating this as if it actually means anything or matters for anything

BECAUSE HE THINKS ITS MEANINGFUL AND THE FACT HE THINKS ITS ACTUALLY MEANINGFUL IS PROVING MY POINT

Maybe you're right and I am actually an idiot but why isn't it meaningful? Explain it instead of just insulting me please...

Like do you know how many posts you've made that just been this Kitty?

Most of them were fairly early day 1 during the first push on me, now I actually have something to solve people on. I do better when there's a flip or two. Pray tell me what is wrong with my questioning of T3, for example?

Catboi is probably just wrong town tbh. I strongly TR him in spire of everything because I understand why someone would SR me for my weird playstyle. But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

I FOS THEM!!!
CATBOI IS PROBABLY A WOLF IN THIS GAME. EVEN IF HE WASN'T THAT KIND OF VOTE ON YOU IS SOMETHING HE COULD DO AS A WOLF. NOT AT ALL ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE
BUT SOMEHOW HE'S TOWN????????????????

????????????IKFOS'PDYU'S;PD
AOST
'GSFIDYH
'DUJFH
;DFUYJH
'SD09TO\
]RYESDFIUKYH
DFUJ

Jesus Christ calm down. Catboi is another gut read but I'm a bit afraid of just saying "it's gut".

[KittyTacky]

Just... I'm trying to understand why I'm being under attack with this exact talking point. It doesn't make sense to me.

[KittyTacky]

And getting insulted when asking about it really isn't helping matters you know?

[KittyTacky]

75% or so of the game is town so getting a townread right is not that impressive

I know. But talking about the accuracy of my reads just... doesn't make sense when there are only two flips and I only had a read on one of them? Maybe Alisae means something else by "read quality". Is it the poor explanations? I can admit that but my main most confident reads rn (Datisi and T3) I feel I have fairly solid reasoning on?

[KittyTacky]

I don't remember if I mentioned this here before but I am quite autistic IRL so I have difficulties explaining myself and talking to people in that way.

[KittyTacky]

I probably should just quit playing Mafia then if I am a total buffoon who has nothing worth saying even in my best effort?

[KittyTacky]

Ah, I either missed or forgot that. Weird wording, I misunderstood that then. Sorry for repeating myself so much there.

[KittyTacky]

It seems like genuine frustration, though scum can also be genuinely frustrated. But I'll refrain from pushing Alisae again today much unless we can't do T3.

I just... can't see what exactly is wrong with my reasoning this game other than it sometimes being a bit poorly explained?

I mean ya you're not going to know what you're doing wrong if you don't know what it is you're doing wrong it's has to do with your fundamental understanding of the game.
I'm not saying that the game is easy, it's not, and I don't really know how to answer this other than it's just really fundamental.
If you put in the games one can eventually understand what are the things that wolves are likely to do and what are the things town are likely to do.
No one starts a pro.

Maybe the Normal meta is just different? Keep in mind that I basically exclusively played Normals until recently. I never had to face such pushback there and now it honestly feels like my first 3 games both in how I feel and people's responses to me. Again if you're town I'm sorry for being incompetent.

Maybe you're right and I am actually an idiot but why isn't it meaningful? Explain it instead of just insulting me please...

It's semantic. You're throwing it out like a smoking gun when it's not alignment indicative and can come from both alignments.

I'm not, it's mostly a gut read wrt the post contents. I read a lot on tone.

Most of them were fairly early day 1 during the first push on me, now I actually have something to solve people on. I do better when there's a flip or two. Pray tell me what is wrong with my questioning of T3, for example?

I mean based on what you posted it could be town or scum nothing you pointed out is super alignment indicative.

Well to me, the way he handled the reads list seemed particularly scummy. Maybe I'm wrong. But it just doesn't feel right for town to catch up for so long and then post that kind of list.

And getting insulted when asking about it really isn't helping matters you know?

you aren't worth the posts and you're not worth talking to. The only value you provide to the game is your vote.
There is no reasoning with someone who haphazardly and arbitrarily forming reads.
There is no talking to you. I genuinely think you are a person that just cannot be reasoned with.

[/quote]
Well that's just rude.

[KittyTacky]

you did mention this I just forgot...

Sorry.

It's fine.

[KittyTacky]

75% or so of the game is town so getting a townread right is not that impressive

I know. But talking about the accuracy of my reads just... doesn't make sense when there are only two flips and I only had a read on one of them? Maybe Alisae means something else by "read quality". Is it the poor explanations? I can admit that but my main most confident reads rn (Datisi and T3) I feel I have fairly solid reasoning on?

THIS IS TOTAL TROLL BAIT

No I was legit confused, it was odd wording and it's mostly resolved already.

OR EVEN GET PRESSURED ALL THAT MUCH BEYOND NORMAL D1 PUSHES.

Am I really under so much (mechanical, mentally I feel quite humiliated) pressure compared to T3 right now? Or D1 was I under so much pressure compared to Norwe?

[KittyTacky]

Well to me, the way he handled the reads list seemed particularly scummy. Maybe I'm wrong. But it just doesn't feel right for town to catch up for so long and then post that kind of list.

To elaborate: any scum could post such a list in like 5 minutes by going with the consensus with a few select spicy takes to look "genuine". The two explanations seem essentially formed after the list too.

Source: did this as scum.

Maybe the Normal meta is just different? Keep in mind that I basically exclusively played Normals until recently. I never had to face such pushback there and now it honestly feels like my first 3 games both in how I feel and people's responses to me. Again if you're town I'm sorry for being incompetent.

I think generally speaking worse players will /in for normals. Maybe every now and then there is a normal that has a good table but I don't think the player quality in your games is particularly high at least from what I remember in the normal q. I only joined normal games if the table was worth it or the mod was.

Yeah then I guess I am still a noob. You're right, I still haven't quite built up how scum and town respond but I'm

trying

. And I am trying to improve.

I'm not, it's mostly a gut read wrt the post contents. I read a lot on tone.

You are selling it like it is a gacha moment.

I didn't intend to put it that way.

Well to me, the way he handled the reads list seemed particularly scummy. Maybe I'm wrong. But it just doesn't feel right for town to catch up for so long and then post that kind of list.

I am voting the player I want it dead I'm not going to tell you to not vote it with me. I mean it's pretty lackluster and the player isn't posting but he's made this post which is the same kind of post you made before.

Please ask me questions because I’m also having trouble formulating my thoughts.

Except I'm not scumreading T3 for that post.

If it was genuinely my situation then I'd still at least try to provide a reason for each read. Even if half of it was simply "gut". Even that is better than an ass naked reads list. It's just confusing.

[KittyTacky]

Like that is not overwhelmed town, it's just lazy scum trying to slip under the radar.

[KittyTacky]

I at least played enough with similar situations to tell that town just doesn't respond in that way.

[KittyTacky]

Gonna be entirely honest, this game, esp this convo D2, made me realize that even with like 20-odd games I am still a noob. Long way to go...

I feel like I wronged you Alisae, with acting dismissive and trollish myself day 1.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah makes sense.

I did that already here, T3's "list" is what scum would do in that situation imo to attempt to hide from scrutiny. It's low-effort! Doable even if you just skimmed the game! Little risk of associative tells from your reasoning provided (since there's none)!

[KittyTacky]

Where are your read explanations, my man. If it's gut then say it's gut. Don't dodge questions.

[KittyTacky]

Good nyaight. I will do an ISO analysis of T3 tomorrow.

[KittyTacky]

So chances of at least one of them being clean are actually quite good

it's about 72% without accounting for titus

also: i feel like maybe titus' role is scummy? the fact that the hoods don't list occupants means she could have pretended to just be alone and used it to spy

but idk maybe that is overly obvious game design

and i can think of a (deeply, deeply niche) town use for that ability too

Do note that there's a certain amount of mod WIFOM here. I think the stray is just a "pseudo-miller" role, made to look scummy while being town. IMO Titus is town.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Kittytacky

Never mind.
Get ‘em.

I'm town.

[KittyTacky]

Well i checked literally one random towngame they had that was recent to verify that and i'm noting that they just said "I'm town" a lot. Like that was their whole post and defense of suspicion on them.

CHERRY PICKING OKAY, AND THAT ISN'T EVEN HOW THEY'RE ACTING THIS GAME.

LIKE IN OTHER WORDS YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU CHECKED ONE TOWN GAME AND THEY RESPONDED TO PRESSURE COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY FROM HOW THEY ARE HERE.

MEANWHILE YOU HAVE PLAYERS WHO HAVE ACTUALLY PLAYED WITH KT BEFORE AND CHECKING MULTIPLE GAMES OF THEIR'S AND SAYING THAT THEIR PLAY THIS GAME AND HIS SHITTY SELF META DEFENSE DOESN'T RESEMBLE HIS TOWN GAME AT ALL.

Bruh I said my catchphrase plenty of times this game. And my defense that game was more than that. Anyways, guess I'm scummy for putting in more effort into my defense? I explained why my behavior was different: I thought I had opportunistic scum on my wagon as major pushers (though I'm not so sure of that anymore). These town games I townread most people who pushed me. Again I am not a bot, I can adapt to circumstances if I feel it would be more optimal to do so.

[KittyTacky]

and I had this really dumb theory forming in my head that kittytacky told the scum PT "I suck I always get eliminated" and fire just came in assuming kittytacky meant as both alignments when that is not actually true

IMO THE SCUM PT WENT SOMETHING LIKE

KITTY: I AM BAD SCUM SORRY GUYS, JUST BUSS ME D1

DATISI: OK

1. I'm not scum.
2. I don't ask to get bussed as scum.

[KittyTacky]

Check scum PTs of every scum game I was in, never once did I ask to get bussed.

[KittyTacky]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

Nah I feel coughing up a weird and mostly unexplained list after catching up for so long is scummy and not =rand.

This is a player specific statement FWIW. Like, yes, I think what he's doing is basically awful and completely unhelpful if he's town.

But in my experience T3 basically almost never explains any reads he has as town and when he does his justification is usually "it's just vibes" or something similarly empty. This happens basically no matter how much you prod him. He gets yeeted for it a lot, regardless of his alignment. Somehow this has not motivated him to stp doing this. If it were a completely unknown player I'd agree it's scummy in a vacuum. I'm just saying my expectations for T3 are not very high.

Well he should at least try, as I said it's fine if the list is mostly "it's gut", but it's not like he's physically incapable of trying to give reasons.

[KittyTacky]

Yes because I am an emotionless machine and never feel distraught when personally attacked as town.

[KittyTacky]

Yes because I am an emotionless machine and never feel distraught when personally attacked as town.

THIS IS SCUM ATE. TOWN DOESN'T ATE THIS WAY, I CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

This is my town ATE.

[KittyTacky]

I dunno what else to say but you are wrong.

[KittyTacky]

hey T3 what do you hope to accomplish by playing this way

Yeah where are the read explanations. Cmon even I am putting in more effort than this.

[KittyTacky]

Like imo this complete lack of engagement with the game is scummy af even for T3 who is something of a lurker.

[KittyTacky]

I think town!T3 would be less... deflated when under this kind of pressure.

[KittyTacky]

Ngl KittyTacky is curious on a VCA level but I don't think they're scum.

Flavor is not Rusty or Scourge.

Using curious immediately after it was (dubiously) said to be a scummy word is +town imo, scum would be more careful with wording.

[KittyTacky]

I wouldn’t say i was the only one sorting Titus like all other players in our hood had given it no thought. But i tried to ask questions and exactly the same theories as was said earlier about them potentially being a scum that could select hood to spy in and etc.

WHY DON'T YOU CONSOLIDATE ONTO KT TO MAKE SCUM FAKE MORE REACTIONS? I DON'T KNOW WHAT T3 IS FLIPPING BUT I WOULD BE STUNNED IF KT FLIPS STARCLAN.

You will be stunned then if the wagon on me goes through.

[KittyTacky]

[KittyTacky]

I CAN SEE WHY YOU GET ELIMINATED EARLY AS SCUM A LOT, KITTY. I RESPECT THE EFFORT YOU CONTINUE TO PUT INTO IT ANYWAY WHICH I PRESUME IS BORNE OF A DESIRE TO NOT LET DOWN YOUR TEAM. IRONICALLY, I SUSPECT IT'S THIS SAME NOBILITY THAT MOTIVATES YOU TO PERSEVERE WHICH ALSO INTERFERES WITH YOUR ABILITY TO LIE EFFECTIVELY.

THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE BURNOUT STAGE WHERE NOT EVEN WORDS CAN BE PRODUCED AS OBJECTIONS.

I'm just tired of your constant deathtunnel of me.

[KittyTacky]

Not voting Alisae.

Also not voting unless T3 wagon dies, Alisae's last spat with me seems like town.

[KittyTacky]

E's still a little scummy and I'd take that over e.g Titus but my vote is parked on T3.

[KittyTacky]

I CAN SEE WHY YOU GET ELIMINATED EARLY AS SCUM A LOT, KITTY. I RESPECT THE EFFORT YOU CONTINUE TO PUT INTO IT ANYWAY WHICH I PRESUME IS BORNE OF A DESIRE TO NOT LET DOWN YOUR TEAM. IRONICALLY, I SUSPECT IT'S THIS SAME NOBILITY THAT MOTIVATES YOU TO PERSEVERE WHICH ALSO INTERFERES WITH YOUR ABILITY TO LIE EFFECTIVELY.

THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE BURNOUT STAGE WHERE NOT EVEN WORDS CAN BE PRODUCED AS OBJECTIONS.

I'm just tired of your constant deathtunnel of me.

It's less burnout and more annoyance at this stupid TvT that will get 2 townies killed if you keep up with it.

[KittyTacky]

i vibe with the town kitty points

especially the point that he is fighting not just to stay alive but also to get his own reads across and push the people he thinks is scum

i don't think thats something that's very present in his scumgame generally

Yeah when I'm scum I just want to survive. I don't care about my "scumreads", I push whoever I can push to survive.

[KittyTacky]

like why the fuck do people who KNOW I do not like them and do not want them in my games keep trying to join games I am in

catboi is being replaced

Alisae is being replaced.

Christ lmao.

[KittyTacky]

Kda means kill death assist.
Enchant hammers most people in the game and maybe dies once.
So number of eliminations divided by number of deaths gives a KD number.
I guess i should clarify i meant it as a joke.

Btw anybody knows why those two left? I figure Enchant did something in a prior game.

Enchant is like mini-Not_Mafia. Slightly less trollish.

[KittyTacky]

Doctor, but we need both target one person for it to work. We are in hood for this.

I know nothing if marashi town.

I believe this.

[KittyTacky]

Just kill T3, he has completely collapsed.

[KittyTacky]

T3 is a jester you heard it here first

If it wasn't confirmed there was no 3p, I'd legit have suspected jester play lmao.

[KittyTacky]

That’s fair tbh. For a while I was hoping that my lim would go through and I had thoughts but it just felt like a waste of time posting those thoughts. I have a more fleshed-out case and clearer thoughts on Misty than I do on KT.

the thing is all of your thoughts still feel kinda like distant and disengaged

do you have any thoughts on like things that have happened recently? do you think there's scum pushing you?

you say you have a "more fleshed-out case" on misty but like... that's kinda unrelated to whether she's more likely to be scum that's like just focused on your own optics. its weird for scum to just like be blatantly honest about that lmao but its not really a towny thought process?

if you think kitty is scum and there was at some point a significant wagon on kitty then why didn't you ever push for kitty to be elimmed over yourself?

it just doesn't really feel like you care at all about finding scum or eliminating them

Yeah, this. His scumreads just feel... really forced and fake.

[KittyTacky]

I still don't think it's Titus. Just not feeling it.

[KittyTacky]

So enchant is conf town?

Yeah safe to say this.

[KittyTacky]

Welcome to the replacements!

[KittyTacky]

Can someone summarize the Titus = scum case? I asked Titus to summarize the PP= scum case in the wind hood.

She's a liar trying to use said lie to get me yeeted and refuses to actually engage on the points she is lying about instead just going "lalalala why me fry me."

2064 - 2086

Yep I had it explained to me in the ThunderClan PT and it makes sense. I will vote either Mistyx or Titus when I finish my backread.

[KittyTacky]

Oh wow, my town core subs out and my scumreads just go right back to counterwagoning me. Nothing to see here.

Lol sounds like more fun than pulling teeth.

This pressure response feels pretty scummy to me.

[KittyTacky]

I will vote either Mistyx

why misty?

Sheeping Bear, came to this conclusion from the VCA conversation in the hood. Read some ISOs and didn't like what I saw. I think I'd like Titus today instead though, due to her response to the push. I'm good at gauging responses.

[KittyTacky]

Here is all the information I have regarding this game:

I am the Leader of the Wind Cats. My fellow Wind Cats are Mathblade, Enchant, boy next door, and Titus.

The Leaders have another PT where they vote during the day to give people powers. In that PT with me is Dannflor, Nero Cain, and Frozen Angel (I think is dead).

There was the idea that the Wind PT is pure because T3 was a member and eliminated.

I have no other information in regards to this game.

I don't think there is one scum per PT because it would encourage dumb gameplay like chainlimming everyone in a clan to find scum. I have reasons to think ThunderClan is pure for example and nobody from it died so far.

[KittyTacky]

anything interesting from that vca discussion to share with the class?

Can't quote private communications, but basically Bear said the pool is 2 of Titus, Dannflor, Datisi, and Mistyx; Bear says he thinks he may be wrong about Datisi being bad town so they're rather scum; he also implied he thinks you were bussing; and that he is weary about Mistyx because T3's push on Mistyx looks a bit like a framing attempt rather than distancing.

[KittyTacky]

math, are you saying that scum-her is not capable of faking the event in this game?

Correct. I don’t think so no.

I think she has been swamped in RL and I don’t think this is fakery.

Her level of fakery as scum is generally really good.

if her level of fakery is really good... why is she not capable of acting confused about flavour names?

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I think if Titus flips red then Math stonks go way down. Might be partners.

[KittyTacky]

k

if titus flips scum i am lowkey locktowning mathblade

Why? It has a "buddy defense" vibe imo. I don't know how to explain it.

[KittyTacky]

Then again I don't remember how buddy defense-y Math is as scum. Actually I'm not sure I ever played with scum Math.

[KittyTacky]

one of them doesn't, the rest probably do, but i don't think it's worth pointing them straight at every power role

This. I really don't like Toogeloo's plan, stuff like this works in Town of Salem (or a poorly designed open) where the rolelist is known and you can eliminate scum with contradictory claims. But not in a closed setup.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Titus

[KittyTacky]

That makes sense, fair enough.

[KittyTacky]

i'm gonna do a funny

VOTE: flow trap

(still support the titus wagon, still wanna see her potentially run up, but if we're talking counterwagons, this one might be interesting)

Yeah I'm not so sure about catboi having been town anymore, flow has been pretty quiet and on some deliberation I don't like catboi's push on me d2.

[KittyTacky]

Like yeah the EoD stuff is kinda townie but not the votes around me and T3.

[KittyTacky]

i'm not sure about you guys but i'm a big fan of reading AND posting game related content

How about you do it then?

i'm gonna do a funny

VOTE: flow trap

(still support the titus wagon, still wanna see her potentially run up, but if we're talking counterwagons, this one might be interesting)

Yeah I'm not so sure about catboi having been town anymore, flow has been pretty quiet and on some deliberation I don't like catboi's push on me d2.

I THINK IT'S TINFOIL, SORRY. ARE YOU GOOD AT VCA?

PEDIT

CATBOI ISN'T THE BEST SCUMHUNTER AND I THINK THIS GAME IS HARD IN PARTICULAR. I'M NOT A FAN OF THIS DIRECTION.

Not really, but as has been said he pushed me pretty hard and yet didn't vote me, which imo is scummy. I'm still not solid on this SR but I still have been ensheeped.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: SCRRRDBEAR

this isnt a salt vote at least as far as i can tell - i just think comparing his handling of me now compared to earlier it comes off as generally kind of manipulative, and that's not the first time i've noticed this game

i think theres issues with his posts, i'll bring them up when i'm in a mood where i'm more willing to play

Doesn't answer question, votes the questioner instead...

My limpool has grown.

[KittyTacky]

CAN ANYONE DISPROVE A T3/TITUS/MISTYX/KITTYTACKY/DATISI SOLVE?

Me because I am not scum.

[KittyTacky]

It’s also been suggested certain hoods all town

Most likely Riverclan if I go by lore, lol

Honestly here I think it's ThunderClan, though with PP's recent actions in the hood I think he miiiiight be scum there. But I also have reasons to believe ThunderClan is pure.

[KittyTacky]

and let me guess after i flip town you're going to blame me for this and call me a gamethrower

Scum AtE... or not quite AtE but I see this exact play from scum a lot in all Mafia formats.

[KittyTacky]

Pretty sure it's Mistyx and Titus.

[KittyTacky]

No but fan sites are incredibly well done and can be confused as actual lore

true but aren't most fan sites just mostly a copy paste of cannon? also the if I just google warrior cats the first result is the official site (I think)

Pretty sure it's Mistyx and Titus.

WHY AREN'T YOU BUSSING DATISI TOO?

Because not only am I not scum, I think Datisi is town.

[KittyTacky]

KITTY TACKY WHY ARE YOU ONLY BUSSING MISTYX AND TITUS? YOU STILL THINK DATISI IS TOWN FOR TUNNELING YOUR SLOT INTO THE GROUND?

It seems to me like a town tunnel-- I'm not so 100% sure on my townread of Datisi anymore but I just don't "feel" Datisi scum potential.

[KittyTacky]

Town gets deathtunneled. I am guilty of doing that myself. Again, Datisi is good at scum, pretty sure if he was scum he'd have bussed T3 there instead of continuing to go after a townie whose wagon is stuck.

[KittyTacky]

and let me guess after i flip town you're going to blame me for this and call me a gamethrower

Scum AtE... or not quite AtE but I see this exact play from scum a lot in all Mafia formats.

going to turntable this on you

what was the point of making this post

Pointing out a scummy post?

[KittyTacky]

Pretty sure it's Mistyx and Titus.

Why in the world do you think this?

Both are rather scummy and the cases on them make sense.

[KittyTacky]

So the only T3’s are likely town barring good reason.

I'm not sure I agree with this. T3 was basically a potato and was antispewing from pretty early on. It's very plausible that he was bussed.

Interesting. I will have to redo my VCA overnight assuming bus, but why would scum bus? Was T3 sussed?

A teammate who is clearly floundering and digging himself deeper with unexplained "reads" "lists" is prime bus material. He wasn't going to survive for long, why not bus and possibly save the rest of the team?

[KittyTacky]

that's rather rude

Gonna be entirely honest I barely even register you as being in this game, you're a lurker and so was the previous player in this slot. Post more.

[KittyTacky]

Like actually do something today. Who is your strongest townread and scumread?

[KittyTacky]

I'm like 95% sure Bear is town and Mistyx dismissing him is frustrated scum.

[KittyTacky]

like for me prior to today's play there are things that she's done that feel way more likely to come from her as scum

what's up with this? this feels more interesting to discuss

i dunno i think similar points about "what does this player have to gain by playing like this as scum" could have applied to t3

what makes this different

the simple answer is "t3 was trying titus is not"

stuff in 3181 mostly

and idk i don't really see these as very different levels of trying

Yeah how exactly did T3 try? He just sorta rolled over under pressure.

[KittyTacky]

woulda been high charisma if i had been playing this from the beginning but this is all ostensibly done as a favour and as such perhaps i am not invested enough

So you're going to sit around like a lemon for the rest of the game? This is anti-town if not scummy.