Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[Datisi]

hello

i drew this catboy shin like half an hour ago, do y'all like it (i didn't draw the whole thing i just drew the ears)

also i'm drunk ama

VOTE: catboi

[Datisi]

oh yeah -

v/la every wednesday and thursday due to uni

will be checking in here and there, but don't expect much from me those days

[Datisi]

ur not even a catboy anymore

ur just

cat

[Datisi]

VOTE: bell

[Datisi]

VOTE: norwee

[Datisi]

VOTE: norwee

towny vote tbh

pocket denied

[Datisi]

i think frozen angel is scummy for trying to over-explain her vote on charloux

unrelated to that, i think charloux is townie

[Datisi]

i think frozen angel is scummy for trying to over-explain her vote on charloux

What part is over-explanation? All of her explanation is in response to direct questions.

i think what she called as "makes no sense" actually makes complete sense

if she actually thought about the second part of the post 79, she would come to the conclusion that that implies nobody posted in the scum pt, which like. really REALLY isn't likely.

this is what i mean by over-explainy - she presented a reasonable explanation, dismissed it as "doesn't make sense" (even though it does), and then proceeded to try to justify her vote and appear like she's Really Thinking About The Game

even though she's not (because if she was, she'd realize that nobody posting in the scum pt is unlikely)

[Datisi]

"He could have posted there at start of phase and didn't check it again assuming it was the neighborhood pt? and then slip up at post 40 and /back track on it fast again"

like tell me this isn't fake ass analysis from scum that wants to keep a vote to hold up their appearance of consistently and solving and whatever else it is scum cares about

[Datisi]

yes, i wanna keep voting norwee

[Datisi]

yes it makes sense to me

he saw someone posting in that hood

he went "hehe what if i say that i can't see those posts and they'll be really confused about it"

like i agree that it's not a very *funny* joke but i also don't really think it's a scum action regardless

[Datisi]

yes, i wanna keep voting norwee

why? it felt like you do have a solid case against me yet you said nothing about your other vote?

sometimes i don't say things i think about as maybe there's more value to be gained by reading the reactions without me spelling out why i did things

[Datisi]

Having an issue with her specific logic-- that's more reasonable, iirc FA is the type to deliberately push phony reasoning like that but of course my meta is stale. But I do kind of agree that the joke doesn't make sense (I don't really see what's funny about pretending that something obviously false is true), and I did have the scum PT thought as well, though I arrived to the conclusion that it was unlikely nobody else posted in the scum PT.

my first thought was also "oh shit scum pt slip???" but yes, right after i realized the only way that works is if scum is literally not posting in the scum pt, AND scum was actually careless about referencing a pt knowing that if they reference wrong, they're caught (which is not something i'd expect from a 2016-er)

[Datisi]

the joke made sense to me because it seems like something i would do, or something i would think of doing at least

[Datisi]

wrong

[Datisi]

i don't get it

[Datisi]

i'm gonna kashoot myself

[Datisi]

implying that it's not eyestraining on others

(it is)

[Datisi]

hi misty do you have any alignment related thoughts on anyone yet

[Datisi]

But, Dr Worm wasn’t a really doctor. So you’re not really scrrrd.

SHARP PENGUIN. DO YOU WANT TO VOTE SOMEONE IN OUR CLAN TODAY?

STOP.GIVING.INFO.WHEN.WE.DONT.KNOW.MAJORITY.OF.SETUP.
VOTE: SCRRRRBEAR

why did you have this reaction *now*, and not in the last x-many times that someone commented to be in one hood or being in a hood with someone else?

furthermore, why did you vote him over it? do you think that is scummy?

[Datisi]

Datisi

are all probably town though?

why

[Datisi]

is putting all solving in hood more likely to come from town or scum

open question i honestly dont know

personally i think it's more likely to come from town because
(1) i love posting in pts as town more than in the main thread and yes i am projecting here
(2) scum would want everyone else to see them as townie, not just their hood members; and having "but they're solving in hood!!" from their hood mates won't ever be convincing to anyone because people often think you get pocketed in a hood

[Datisi]

But I just scum read Datisi because their approach aligns with what I think of as their scum game.

can you talk about this a bit more

[Datisi]

In general I tend to think Datisi is workman-scum. They think content+Activity = a shield.
And it's their go to shield. How they approached my poke and their generic statements this early felt like they were aligning with that approach.
I'd like to sit on it, but I just never can help myself.

imagine reading before posting something

i don't think this assessment is exactly wrong of my scumgame, but i'm not sure where you get the idea that my game was like, focused on content and activity here

you mentioned in 345 that me being like "wrong" because i thought that would look the best - but that's like, not content and barely activity?

so how are you fitting that post within the scumtisi framework you laid out

[Datisi]

shit fuck i need to start getting ready for class, fuck page 15 i guess

alisae vibes townie because they kinda feel honest in their approach to the game and i also completely understand the annoyance with val because god knows i've been there
also now i think norwee is townie bc i'm kinda lowkey sheeping alisae on that and also if he's posting in hood, that makes sense why he's kinda underwhelming

unrelated to those two, scrrdbear is town

everything in me is screaming that val is scum but have been wrong before

@penguin, why did you vote 2nd leading wagon instead leading wagon (are you a competing wagons kinda penguin, i forget)

VOTE: charloux - 363

[Datisi]

VOTE: datisi

you said i have a townie vote, wtf

also fire - why did you unvote me when i was asleep? like, you knew my sleeping schedule beforehand, no?

[Datisi]

bc i can feel that i'm not in the vibe of the game yet, esp not in main thread, so i don't think i get much about your alignment by asking that

you can answer if it's something interesting ig

[Datisi]

don't you usually like to sort people based on engaging with their pushes on you

if i think they're unreasonable or i sense bad faith from them, yes

i've olayed w you enough and ik you have played w me enough ti sense i was being kinda off

so i guessed that was why and didn't feel it's worthwhile to ask you about it

so in a way, yes i was waiting to see where you went with it because the current vote from you is boring nd doesn't tell me much

ans i do think i'm more engaged in the hood because i love posting in purple pts , i'll prob try to be conscious about it and not let myself get behind in the main thesd

@dann, why is my vote on charloux bad?

also pls excuse typos, currently speedwalking to class and trying ti not get hit by a csr

[Datisi]

I just think you treat the game more like a chore as scum than as town and your posts reflect that in how you use your ideology.

i guess i'm more interested in how you are fitting this with my posts so far this game,but i'm also rapidly losing faith in this being s productive line of reasoning

[Datisi]

@dann

i do think moonlogicy theories are townie, however my issue is that he assigned scum-motivation to one person for it when a lot of other people have done it, and he never commented on that. that's something that can potentially be scum motivated and i want him to explain his thoughts there

i don't want to vote val rn because i have been wrong before so i want to give more time to sit on that, and i don't think voting him will help me solve him (as it will with charloux)

@fire

i don't remember calling marashu boring (or saying anything about him, really) but i don't really have thoughts on him rn - i'm interested to see where he takes the datisi/bell theory

no thoughts head empty on catboi

why is it that you asked about the two of these specifically?

[Datisi]

something something good scumgame big paranoia etc etc

i did vaguely read your thoughts on him but they didn't really resonate with me one way or another, so

i was hoping to gain insight by seeing his read on me but apparently he has NONE so far so idk i will just be vibing there for now

[Datisi]

it is not a problem :3

[Datisi]

i will combat that bias by immediately forgetting who is in what clan

(but yes agreed, solving by "x scum in y hood" is dumb and we should not do it)

[Datisi]

I think my top vote choice would be Mistyx

interesting, why?

Mistyx, Datisi, Norweigan; What is even your goal with my wagon?

i have both spelled out exactly why i am voting you and what i want from you - give an answer to 363.

IMO 386 LOOKS INFORMED. JUST DRYLY ADDRESSING CONCERNS AND CHATTING ABOUT TELLS.

yes, the point of that post was to address concerns, what would you expect to be different about it from town-me?

having read the further posts from bear, i can see where he's coming from and i think his push is very townie. it's *wrong* obviously, but i think his posts show curiosity and solving my alignment that i don't think is very likely to be from scum.

[Datisi]

bear, buddy, it's *really* not difficult to figure you out.

also, why wouldn't i be clam? i get pushed for nonsense in the early game practically every other game nowadays. i didn't think the current pushes on me were very notable or interesting. i still wanted to address them.

pedit @dann - and i have him as even stronger town now for his posts.

on the topic of charloux - meh. i am *fine* with that answer, i vaguely remember agreeing with some stuff some said about him being town, and i don't wanna push on mech early anyway. so.

UNVOTE:

will be taking a break for dinner and a walk, then will relook at the game to see where i stand in terms of scumreads.

[Datisi]

what do you mean i'm not displaying uncertainty? i haven't outed a read on dann or fire (because guess what, i don't have it), and i explicitly said i don't have a read on catboi or marashu. like... i am not certain on their alignment? i'm not sure why you're conflating being uncertain with being upset, but knock yourself out i guess.

so if i townread you for your push on me, i'm just asskissing you, but if i don't have a read on e.g. fire for his push on me because i think it's boring, i'm "not sorting". wait no, you said i'm not sorting you either. okay. sorry i'm not doing things according to your schedule.

pedit - fire, is that thought supported by meta or is it independent of it? what feels off to you?

[Datisi]

okay yeah that makes sense

i'm probably gonna tentatively lean fire town for this; while i think he is capable of faking this thought process / noticing those things as scum, i think it is more likely to come from town, so

[Datisi]

?

[Datisi]

Oh my that is a bit of a hard 180 for datisi over that vote. trying to fabricate a scum read on the slot to seem like they are solving the slot is a theory getting more likely in my head.

why do you think that is fabricated?

(also, there is something really funny to me about fa accusing me of being too aware of the reads on me, while bear is accusing me of not sorting people enough via their reads on me. damned if you do...)

[Datisi]

"voting people for dumb mech reasons is Sus, Actually" is my entire progression there lol

[Datisi]

i am about to be watching a movie w friends but shoot

[Datisi]

ya it's based on hood stuff

[Datisi]

I get your concerns but can't town do that stuff as well?

I should be in bed but I am not so I answer. the back track specially felt unnatural. the vote felt a sudden stance change and felt fabricated. the whole agenda seems with extra intentions - I mean with another intention than solving because you cant see how he gets there. a wagon is formed he is against it and pushes hard against it and then suddenly finds a very small excuse and jumps on the wagon himself and before anything deep or meaningful happens jumps off it for no reason.

so I'm concerned for the progress he made with his mindset and I think its worth investigating

i hate to bring up this point

actually no i don't

do you think i don't know how to fake basic progressions as scum?

[Datisi]

like, "can't see how i got there" is a very dumb point because it's very obvious how i got there and i in fact spelled it out prior to voting charloux

> find norwee sus (ftr, he was feeling underwhelming)
> alisae offers an explanation why norwee is sus that i can vibe with
> wanna vote someone else
> the only suspicion i have on someone currently (that i feel will be beneficial by me voting there) is charloux, as i could see clear scum-motivation in voting bear there and his thoughts didn't make sense internally
> time passes, he explains more stuff about mech, admits the vote was a tilt vote, okay yeh i can buy that, i don't find him scummy anymore, unvote

like literally nothing about this is difficult to understand, you can claim you don't *buy* my progression if you want, but framing as if i didn't explain it is lol

also like, your points about me pushing against the wagon, then voting there, then unvoting - you obviously find that scummy. WHY is that scummy? what is the scum motivation behind doing that? obviously an answer is "fake solving", but you're framing it as if there's something *more* there and i don't get it

for the record - in a different game i'd probably be voting fa right now because i think her push on me stinks by far the most than what anyone else has done this game. but i have had a few people say she is Just Like That sometimes. so i'd like those people to chime in and say what they think here. thanks.

[Datisi]

the whole agenda seems with extra intentions

what is my agenda here. or was, i guess.

[Datisi]

so i know misty is a wagon of some sort, and i opened her iso to see why, and i see 499 talking about val being town, which made me interested because what she described as a towntell there is not something that i remember form val's towngame

and uh, 444 feels Really Bad to me

like, my memory of invictus (where we were both town and val was tunneling the shit out of me) is that he doesn't like, ~calm down~ from his pushes. like. i would've accepted him tunneling alisae. i would've accepted him stepping back and re-evaluating. but... something about "actually i've cooled down and i'm no longer that sure of it... but i'm anyway gonna spend the next 9 days trying to convince everyone to kill alisae" is ???

it makes me feel like the "i've thought about it" was thrown in just for performance's sake and that he wants to keep tunnelling his easy tunnel

@misty, what did you find townie about that post? do you really feel like he "cooled" on that read?

VOTE: val

i wanna see what happens here

gn

[Datisi]

he can clarify, ig

i didn't think "cool" meant "reevaluated", but it does crack my point a bit if he was trying to say something else there

though the post still doesn't give me a lot of confidence that he's actually going softer on that read

[Datisi]

the entire 472 post felt honest and i could understand the idea of tilt voting bear

and it only "came into play then" because i don't want to let the person i'm pressuring know that i actually have some thoughts on why they're town because that diminishes my push (and also if their response ends up being really scummy, i can keep pushing on it without people going "but datisi you just said they're town because xyz why are you still pushing--" shut up you don't know how my brain works)

this is @fire

[Datisi]

60% pressure, 10% legit vote, 30% not wanting to vote norwee anymore but not liking when my vote isn't active

[Datisi]

Like, do you think you're out of scum range right now? Because so far I think you're in the middle of both your ranges.

no, no i don't think so. though, out of curiosity - if i had answered "yes, i do think i'm outside my scumrange here", then what would you do?

ftr, my poke towards you wasn't meant as a "catboi *should* have a read on me by now," it was a "i hoped he'd have a read on me by now, as that will potentially help me read him."

anyway, i like the reasoning for kittytacky being scum. upon my skim, i skipped that post because big post, but when i got back to it... it really did not say anything, huh. and the fact that he took the time to photoshop my avatar onto a clam (and photoshop it kind of *well*, considering the white pixels are barely visible), rather than, you know, do things in the game... yeah. it kind of reminds me of that one thing i did in smuggler's, where i also tried to be funny by posting an image instead of like, y'know, doing things. also, screw you for making me remember that game.

VOTE: kittytacky

after i eat, will get to isoing people to try to make sense of my weaker reads, and actually give reason for my stronger ones. interested in why mastina's so certain she's not misreading me here (despite fire specifically saying her reasoning is flawed - which i do agree with).

[Datisi]

in my defense, i read "but I am no longer of the opinion that it's as clear cut as I was feeling last night, and its simple a matter of spending the next 9 days trying to convince everyone else of that" should probably lose that comma there then >_>

what made you re-evaluate, then? the whole 444 still feels to be talking negatively about ali

[Datisi]

if i had to vote right now it would be for datisi but i don't have to vote

why did this post exist and how did your thoughts evolve since then?

[Datisi]

ok i did some isoing i have Reads

{fire, mastina, bear} - town
{alisae} - like, somewhere in the middle of these two
{bell, charloux, misty, s_s, catboi, dann} - townlean
{shidaji} - a hair above null

{shiro} - true null
{cephrir, frozen angel, norwee, titus, val} - ??? null

{marashu} - scumlean
{kittytacky, penguinpower} - scum

some notable notes on people:

- alisae is townie to me because their overall play kind of lacks order. what i mean is, i don't get the malicious vibe from them protecting me or norwee, it just feels like something they actually believe in. the instant reaction to val does kind of feel off, but also it's something i can understand and something that doesn't exactly win them that many points. it also doesn't feel like they're pushing a scum agenda. or like, if they *were* pushing a scum agenda, it would look different than this.

- catboi i put into null in my draft, but i decided to bump him up into townlean. other than "good scum so can't read" being an annoying as fuck read - i actually found that i'm agreeing with a bunch of his takes, or like find them reasonable enough to sheep? and it's like, sure it's possible he is scum and the townies are acting weird enough that he can capitalize on it, but goddamn last game we played i got that feeling when seeing his reads and i was RIGHT so fuck it into townlean

- charloux i don't actually like how is iso is focused moreso on mech than on developing reads. but, scum has to be really careful i think not to say something fucky with mechanics, at least this early on. so if he's doing this as scum, he's prob good scum. so i don't think he'd exactly have trouble fabricating reads. and i don't think this kind of playstyle / strategy is very intuitive for scum anyway so like ye can be townlean for now

- most in the "??? null" are people i wanna see more from, with the exception of norwee who i just like. can't read if he doesn't post stuff in the main thread. and he said he won't. so fuck me i guess.

- bell is actually kinda weak read but i think the thoughts on me were nuanced Enough that i'm fine leaving him in townlean for now, and something something polarized meta i'm not gonna worry about it rn

- marashu like. i'm sheeping catboi here, sue me, but i vibe with the idea that the fixation on me/bell is fake. i'm fine... leaving this for now and seeing what he does today and how he answers suspicion, but yeah uh not a fan

- did anyone notice that penguinpower is lowkey absent? like, he's doing the things of jumping on wagons and outing reads here and there, but none of it feels... like he actually cares? i know he's not a bit time d1 player, but this still feels much less activity and curiosity from him than what i'm used to.

pedit: and seeing val's response is kinda like... i guess i do wanna townlean val for the time being? i dunno, i can actually vibe with the idea of calming down on a read, and the comparisons between this thread and clan chat do vibe genuine (though someone from that chat, correct me if i'm wrong on that).

ok i think that's all, feel free to ask me if you still have q's about any of my reads... i'll probably try to wind down the number of posts i'm putting out though, i don't think i'll be running out, but just in case.

[Datisi]

WHY ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE READING TITUS' SLOT?

because she hasn't done anything

[Datisi]

i don't care about mechanics

or more precisely, i can't read alignment from mechanical arguments

[Datisi]

This is true, but I feel like you've tended toward being more paranoid of those pushing you than what you've shown here?

on average, yeah. but the thing about being so self-aware of your towngame and whether you're in the flow of the game is that it's impossible for me to be paranoid when i explicitly feel i'm not in the flow and i don't feel malice from those pushing me. i am fairly certain that you should be aware of this, that i don't exactly show paranoia towards those whom i'm townreading and/or feel are reasonable in townreading me.

i'm not quite clear whether you think this is scummy from me? do you think i show (or at least try to show) that same paranoia as scum?

[Datisi]

i have nothing new to add except that kitty's recent posts do not change my opinion of him

@bear, can you explain why penguin is town to you?

[Datisi]

do i not exist >_>

[Datisi]

do i not exist >_>

I don't want to be asked about my opinion on you or your wagon.

why not?

[Datisi]

i believe that is an opinion that should definitely be saying into the main thread

unrelated to that - i don't think alisae and norwee are scum together because, from what i'm familiar with alisae's scumplay, i don't believe they would be doing this blatant "saving" of their scumbuddy, after their scumbuddy had started getting scumread for not posting a lot, something that alisae would (1) be aware that it would end up happening if norwee didn't post in the main thread, (2) decide to have that happen anyway because ??? so they can look like garbage while they spend 60% of their main thread presence saving norwee??? lol???

like iirc alisae is about Getting Results and this is counterproductive to like getting any results anywhere

alisae can be scum with norwee town, i guess? i don't think that's very likely because alisae isn't getting any other Results done anyway

town-alisae scum-norwee is also possible? but i kind of am willing to trust alisae's read there for the time being

so ig t/t???

mastina can we kill kitty instead pls

[Datisi]

Because I'm fine shutting down towering arrogance by giving someone what they want only to watch them destroy their own credibility.

can you show me an example of a game where town-you was acting like this?

[Datisi]

i wholeheartedly support the competing wagons on marashu and kittytacky

i think the two of them had a sort of similar (read: godawful) vote on norwee while i think both of them are kind of ignoring each other and the wagons that are building on one another so yes i very much want to see both of them run up

i think mastina is town and i also think there is scum hiding behind her - i am hoping to have a convo w her and potentially change her mind but uhh not very high hopes of that

i hate p much everything bell posted in the last page but /shrug still outsourcing that read to like everyone else

ok gotta run, tldr vote kitty or marashu pls k thx

[Datisi]

mastina feels town, her push on norwee feels like something that shouldn't convince people, and yet there is a steady wagon on norwee

this might just be backwards reasoning due to me scumreading marashu and kitty and townreading mastina, but /shrug

pedit: @dann

[Datisi]

I said my case as for why I'm town

you'll have noticed that i still think you're scum after it

[Datisi]

norwee, do you still think marashu is scum

what do you think of kitty

[Datisi]

i didn't understand then what me already being dead to you meant and i don't understand it now either

it's just about your treatment of mastina and norwee mostly (and the fact you don't seem that interested in doing anything but anyway)

[Datisi]

people asking you questions about it doesn't stop you from doing other things, but y'know

i think you'll be dying before me this game, unless scum decides to get rid of me early

[Datisi]

can anyone who knows bell tell me whether "i got the impression you're scum in the first 5 pages and i'm gonna stick to it" kind of behaviour is more like his town or scum game

because i can currently think of (1) reason it's townie and (1) reason it's scummy

[Datisi]

sweating because i also mentioned posting less due to the post cap

[Datisi]

the postcap here is 200. i don't really think any town here should be genuinely worried about it rn if they put any actual thought into it (unless they are a huge spam poster which we don't really have any of here), which is what makes it feel kinda faked concern

I am feeling the same thing he is talking about. I make a lot of borderline useless posts. Even though I doubt I'll hit the cap, I still feel bad making those posts. It is, indeed, a psychological thing.

i also feel that too

i combat it by posting in the hood, where i have over 100 posts currently

so how many posts does kittytacky have in his hood rn? @whoever is in a hood with him because fuck if i remember

[Datisi]

sweating because i also mentioned posting less due to the post cap

why does this feel like a scum post

because I feel like the town reaction would be "ha, you're wrong" and not "oh no, I'm gonna be scumread now", even if the post is made in jest

they're using that reasoning to scumread kittytacky, who is currently my strongest scumread, why would i discourage them

[Datisi]

so how many posts does kittytacky have in his hood rn? @whoever is in a hood with him because fuck if i remember

seven

oh hi penguin why do you feel like you hate your own existence this game

[Datisi]

they're using that reasoning to scumread kittytacky, who is currently my strongest scumread, why would i discourage them

because you have just proven that the reasoning is flawed? people are saying "town wouldn't do X" while fypov you are town who has done X

i don't care if they're using shit reasoning (and the collective reads on my slot fall a little) if that means kitty can die

also i think there is a very VERY big difference between me and kitty saying "i'll be posting less because of post cap" -- mainly because i have actually produced. alot of content DESPITE THE POSTING WHILE HE HASN'T

but yeah uh kill kitty

[Datisi]

you have posted way more content than o every expected of you lole

[Datisi]

I kinda want to switch to Datisi because his recent posting about Kitty feels pretty dodgy but I'm not gonna lie I really want to see what Alisae does if Norwee gets close to elimination because that can maybe just locktown them forever.

what about my posting about kitty is fucky dodgy to you

i want able to respond immediately because i was entering a supermarket w a friend and they were talking to me and i didn't want to appear like to much of an asshole

do you think scum me doesn't remember why im scumreading kitty

[Datisi]

what about my posting about kitty is fucky dodgy to you

specifically the bit where you're like "yeah their reasoning is bad but I don't care haha"

I've seen that mindset before, but it's not common, and it seems like it ought to be a red flag if the wagon's widespread support is based on something that's wrong.

i was trying to make a joke first

when you asked me why, the answer originally was "i odn't care if they're using a wrong way to get to the right conclusion" because yes i did not care

then, once you forced me into overthinking about it, i realized that the reason i "didn't care" was because the "i'm not posting because of postcap" is only scummy IF the person in question is also not actually producing content -- which is applicable to kittytacky but not to me, therefore it's not actually bad reasoning to scumread kitty for that but not me

[Datisi]

they didn't, i was trying to make this advanced level of communication known as a joke

[Datisi]

And, I don't really want to let the Kitty wagon become a runaway leader because he doesn't seem like someone who's likely to be able to defuse a wagon on himself.

penguin, what are you posting in the hood

[Datisi]

can you tell me what reads you have made by this point in the game

[Datisi]

they didn't, i was trying to make this advanced level of communication known as a joke

but my point is that, if people forgot about you and just pushed Kitty for complaining about postcap, they are using wrong reasoning. Doesn't matter if you came up with hypothetical right reasoning they

could

use, they aren't using it.

and my point is that i still don't care if they're using the """"""""wrong""""""" reasoning because i want kitty dead

i don't care about the absolutist right or wrong in mafia, i care about killing scum

[Datisi]

i think the question is why you aren't allowing that to affect your read on the slot at all

at first it was because it wasn't significant enough to offset the rest of the scummy shit he's done

after the ~overthink~, it was because it's actually legit scummy for kittytacky bc he does not have content (so the whole reasoning for that trait to be not-scummy is not spplicable)

[Datisi]

more in the vein of "if people are pushing this slot with inaccurate reasoning, why is that not an indicator that scum are faking a case on the slot"

if they wanna bus, they can

it doesn't change the fact that i think kitty is scummy and want to see him run up

[Datisi]

you (lol won't happen)

why

[Datisi]

do you believe you are particularly likely to get eliminated D1, Datisi

no

i'm asking why he scumreads me

[Datisi]

you said yourself that you're posting more in hood so do you think you've actually posted anything that should make me townread you here

[Datisi]

so how many posts does kittytacky have in his hood rn? @whoever is in a hood with him because fuck if i remember

seven

oh hi penguin why do you feel like you hate your own existence this game

because you aren't in my PT with me

i assumed this meant "i'm posting more in the pt (and hence you think i feel like i hate my own existence, but i DON'T)", not "i wish you were in the pt with me" (which is very nice of you but pocket denied)

but my read on you (1) the activity portion was talking about before weekend, during weekend, (2) even when you're here, your posting has felt utterly disinterested and not-curious about anything that's going on

do you think this is a false assessment of your game this game and do you think i should have anything to townread you for

[Datisi]

i don't understand what that means

[Datisi]

- did anyone notice that penguinpower is lowkey absent? like, he's doing the things of jumping on wagons and outing reads here and there, but none of it feels... like he actually cares? i know he's not a bit time d1 player, but this still feels much less activity and curiosity

from him than what i'm used to.

you are comparing against previous behavior. I am saying that's a false assessment.

are you genuinely claiming that your play this game has been as active and curious as it was in your previous games where you were town

[Datisi]

i never said you're "certain scum" but go off ig

[Datisi]

yeah it's almost as if it is a READSlist that can change if people do something that changes my mind but yknow

[Datisi]

your play, by the time i made that readslist is in line with your scum play

you don't get ti be in null just because "there has not been enough time to sort me!!" no, your play has been nonexistant and flat and you remind me of the same nonexistance you were in frienemies, you go in scum

as i am not bell, my reads will change if you start doing things that are in line with your town play

i don't think this is actually that difficult to intuitively understand so /shrug

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

datisi's cafe is over and there i offered dead players and spectators prizes (in the form of picking my avatar for a certain amount of time) if they guess certain things about the setup and rand

i have to be a fucking miltank after this

[Datisi]

d1 in datisi's cafe lasted for like, 12 hours or whatever it was, the games aren't comparable -- and that's ignoring the fact that i am not very aware of every individual posting of players when i mod the game

[Datisi]

i don't fact check and if it becomes relevant and/or important i'll go fact check

[Datisi]

so you yourself believe you made excuses to push that slot, but now you're basically saying there were no other strong leads to pursue there and you went there to make sure the vote is active and put pressure on slot (by 90%) yet you were alarmed when I said I think that the vote was not legit and based on your true read. why?

because it still was in part a legit read and denying that as being legit is incorrect?

also s_s said he knows you, but he said it in the hood so

[Datisi]

I'm more concerned now about your reaction to getting voted about it when you also admit it was a weak read and that you called out the vote instead of agreeing that the switch was based on a weak analysis and for the pressure /keeping vote active

i guess it was that, even thought i knew myself that my vote was not a super strong one or one that intends to kill charloux, *despite that* i felt that you were mischaracterizing it or being opportunistic or wtv

my memory is shit and it's past midnight here, so if you want a more specific answer, please link what you're talking about in the past and what i need to respond to

[Datisi]

completely opposite of that, you said you know how to fake basic progression as scum and in this and next post you were like that it was a solid legit change of heart on that slot and the 180.

In other words, you reacted to my read with "my progression was solid so I fos you" instead of "I agree that it was a weak jump (with a weak legit reason, but the main reasons were - it was for pressure - it was to keep vote active" and I find the reaction odd for that reason

oh, there's actually two different things happening here

i do think my progression is solid - or at least that is makes sense, even when you account the fact that the read wasn't super strong and i didn't actually want to kill charloux at that time. like, i think despite there not being a super strong scumread from me on charloux, i think you (and anyone else) should be able to see how i got there

but my "i know how to fake a basic progression as scum" was meant to be a "i don't understand why you're finding me scummy for this". more specifically, you said that you can't see how i got there, and you tie that in for me being scummy - but my argument is that *just because* you cannot see how i got there, does not mean my thought process is fake. i felt there is an undertone in your posts that said "i can't tell how datisi got there, ergo he doesn't know how to fake a progression, ergo there is no progression and he's scum acting oppotrunistically" -- and i think that logic doesn't follow simply because i do know how to fake a progression as scum

and the fact that you went "datisi is scum because no progression" as opposed to "i can't follow the progression, maybe i just don't see it" felt oppotrunistically scummy to me

[Datisi]

my head hurts and i don't think this is getting us anywhere

once you catch up - if you truly care about this still and if you think it's important for you to be able to sort me, i can keep the argument going

but i'm dropping it for the time being, sorry

[Datisi]

i am now back to thinking bell is townier because that idea of playing around me is annoying as fuck (and i don't actually think it's >rand for reading me) BUT it DOES feel like something to come from a town player so yeah

i am annoyed that i am not on fire's town list but WHATEVER it's fine i'm fine

that's all i have to say at this moment in time ig, @ me if you need me or something

[Datisi]

this means you ISOed cephir right?

i isoed everyone (other than the people i already had a strong read on)

if someone ended up in null despite that, that means they are null to me

[Datisi]

if i didn't talk about him then i had nothing to say about him

[Datisi]

i am interested in your reads after reading the whole game, personally

[Datisi]

i am down for getting a claim out of kitty and or marashu, personally

[Datisi]

why is norwee still a wagon i'm confused on that

nobody knows

anyway

VOTE: marashu

Y-3

[Datisi]

then why vote him over kitty

The case against Kitty is weaksauce and it doesn't really seem like pressure will make him or anyone else easier to read.

do you think the case on norwee is good (if yes: why?)

is norwee easier to read after there being a wagon on him

pedit: damn

[Datisi]

oh look, bear is still dragging on the early day interactions as if they mean anything. very cool. continuously ignoring my later q's towards him (and i'm assuming my later posts as well). incredibly cool.

this is probably gonna get discarded as (town/scum) datisi, based on your current thoughts on my slot, but koba recently told me i should try to be more honest as town, so

Spoiler:

i don't think the posts that bear is quoting there ever could've been doubtful or be showing any paranoia or uncertainty. my irl at the time was such that i don't think i was physically capable of getting any sort of upset about a mafia game, i didn't have the capacity for it.

also, specifically to 479: i wonder if there's ever been a game where i was town, getting pushed early, and didn't feel like actually interacting or sorting people for it? and people were scumreading me for the lack of reaction?

oh wait, there was.

OK so, I don't like posts 32 or 34 because I don't like the way they are hopping on to Datisi this early. 39 Is not the same in my mind.

As for Datisi, I think they are pretty good at faking tone as scum, at least at the start of the game, I don't have a read on them right now. I don't consider that to be contradictory to the above because I am not reading them as scum

How do you feel about his lack of reaction to those votes?

Even if early, and even if some aren't serious, they're there. One of them had a... nudge, in Datisi's direction. ("Did you roll scum again?")

And then there's just not an indication that this is a worry in his head. Towny or scummy to you?

also, i do have a response to 51, let me know if it's of interest to someone after dunn responds.

@Datisi, what reply did you have?

i get wagoned early in the game literally all the time now. i'm awkward at the start of the game because i never know what to do.

i didn't have a response to the votes because nothing good comes from responding to them. why are they voting me? because i'm awkward. no shit. getting into an argument about it now would just make me look desperate, and thus, even more awkward. just play the game normally, they'll either see the error of their ways or they're going to have to justify their vote on me once i have actual content out.

do you think me ignoring the votes on me is scummy? why?

(also, only later did i realize fire was in this game, so y'know. at that. but probably not worth the struggle.)

It's basic psychology.

having been studying psychology for the past 3 years -- i would absolutely call a scum player a clown

[Datisi]

those top wagons are a tragedy

VOTE: kittytacky

[Datisi]

aaaaah no my heart isn't in that vote currently and also we have 4+ days

VOTE: penguinpower?

[Datisi]

Anybody null and below is treated as scum.

were you not townreading me earlier? what changed?

[Datisi]

Following Mastina in her towngames is an adventure, an joirney if you will.
You see their thoughts evolve, their brainpower being put at full work and on display for all to see. It’s beautiful and freaking obvious whwn she is town.
As scum she is an terminator. One goal, one set of programming, no hesitancy, no doubt. Nothing may change the set values. It’s clear to me that this is what we are dealing with here based on the carchup.

Hm

This might be true actually

how accurate is norwee's description of mastina as town vs as scum?

to, like, everyone

[Datisi]

i have 2 completed games of experience with mastina, one of which was 3 years ago

so not really, no

[Datisi]

that was my reaction too ngl

[Datisi]

why should i do that when you won't bother to think about my slot past your page 5 read

[Datisi]

you have no idea how hard i wish i could call bear scum here

but if i am right on what i think i am right on, and i probably am, i highly highly doubt he is scum here

[Datisi]

PenguinPower - town

why?

[Datisi]

please elaborate on that because i think scum penguin would also be trying to encourage wagons

[Datisi]

well my gut feelings are telling me to yeet the penguin so i was kind of hoping you'd enlighten me there but k

[Datisi]

lol - like i don't come out against datisi as scum here but whatever.

y

[Datisi]

i don't get the idea you're the main pusher or my wagon

or really trying to push it rn either

so idk what about the difficulty of it would stop you

[Datisi]

so, now that t3 showed life, can we know more about the reason for the flashwagon?

[Datisi]

interesting, do you know why / are you willing to share why titus joined?

i'm not against a t3 wagon though. so like. cool ig.

[Datisi]

i am not so sure anymore what i think about mastina, alignment wise. though i am of the feeling i might even just want to flip her because it's clear the mastina-norwee situation is not going to change so might as well actually like, resolve it early so that we can get into normal mafia after it.

VOTE: kittytacky

i don't know. mastina isn't a bad flip from a thread health and/or information perspective. so i don't exactly hate that wagon, i guess. i can't in good conscience vote there right now but maybe later.

besides running up kittytacky, i also would like to have t3 run up - if we're talking about alignment-reasons to kill someone.

also i'm not really in the mood to fake motivation for this game because this day is a drag. so let me know if you, like, want my specific opinion on something. i'm reading the thread. but like. idk.

[Datisi]

can anyone tell me WHY mastina thinks norwee is scum? other than the "my read on him is better than yours", that's not a reason

if nobody can, that's a very good sign on how much noise her slot is right now - and i don't like policy, but my god

charloux, i'm not confused per se, but i don't understand it and i can't bother understanding because it's very clear mastina isn't going to actually try to help us understand why norwee is scum.

the reason why i don't mind flipping her is because i think her flip is actually informative - if she's town, that means i'll be re-evaling alisae (because uh, i kind of realized that alisae pushing town-mastina the was they have been would kinda fit into my worldview of scum-alisae getting shit done), and also it gains insight into who was willing to mindlessly sheep mastina at the beginning of the game

if mastina's red, i probably just brain off sheep alisae, and i'm guessing there'd be some sorta associates from rereading her slot (and like, i realized that my hood reasons for townreading her were probably garbage, and also she didn't bother correcting me in the hood why they're garbage, soooo...)

[Datisi]

so
you realize that saying "i have a soulread" won't convince me, or anyone really

but instead of at least a tldr of all the dozen reasons that norwee is scum

you spend time typing "norwee is scum, i'm not wrong" 50 times

[Datisi]

dann claimed it in our hood

[Datisi]

ah fuck sorry you're right my bad lemme just

[Datisi]

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VOTE: Datisi

[Datisi]

(VOTE: kittytacky)

[Datisi]

why do you think i would be afraid of "looking bad"

do you think scum never pushes any misyeets in fear of "looking bad"

[Datisi]

she said she won't claim in thread

lemme go consult the council on what to do

[Datisi]

mastina's claim

Spoiler:

your mum

[Datisi]

roden figured out the flavour of the serial killer in datisi's cafe

[Datisi]

pengu, what are your thoughts on mastina's alignment

[Datisi]

there's a reason i asked your thought about her alignment and not about her wagon

[Datisi]

awesome

s_s was right about you

[Datisi]

i'd tell you but i am currently having a very interesting discussion with dannflor that i need to see through

[Datisi]

ok nvm the discussion wasn't that interesting, i'm just an idiot

anyway, she claimed apprentice into 2-shot town crier. that has to submit during the day, and that may or may not (?) work when she's dead too

yeah basically

i have no doubt it's a true claim, just y'know, idk what's the alignment lole

[Datisi]

something something be the change you wish to see

[Datisi]

SS why do u trust mastina > me on norwee

Not sure. Probably because hood pocketing is so common.

and yet you don't townread me

[Datisi]

hey bear, do you think me pushing kitty throughout like half of day 1 is also trying too hard to create anti associates?

wait, no, you probably didn't read a single post i made past like page 20 or whenever it was. sure. cool. excellent play.

[Datisi]

I think he is trying to powerwolf with his play and I think he is one of those people that a lot of people townread for like, no reason??? Like, I don't think anyone really said why they were townreading Bear and I think it's one of those reads where it's like "if you start poking holes at it it just doesn't seem like it's a villager???"

i have a very strong sense that bear's scumgame is much, much less capable than this. quality of reads isn't something you can read him by.

People are telling me to engage more but at the same time not engaging with me when I try to facilitate that. So, ask me anything, take two.

this feels like... something scum would say, i think? like it's showing a clear misunderstanding of what people actually want from him.

is it exactly scummy? ehh, i dunno. his play already has so much scummy in it, i probably don't even need this point, but it felt like something that i should call out anyway.

oh yeah, also i DID ask kitty questions about his townread on me, and yet he did not respond. funny.

[Datisi]

okay i'm gonna out some of my vague gamestate feels and y'all can yell at me for being stupid if you want

first things first, i feel like alisae and kittytacky are likely to be s/t, in some direction. i feel kittytacky is strongly scum, and i wanna murder there. if he does flip scum, i don't think alisae-scum treats their buddy like that.

however, if kittytacky is to flip town, then uh. alisae's play this game starts to 2/2 fit into the mold of what i expect them to do as scum. their early d1 play didn't give me the feeling of [doing business] that i'd expect from scumlisae, and i can maybe excuse the mastina flip, but 2 wrong flips (pushed in the manner i'd expect from scum-them) is going to be a problem.

my less clear thoughts:

- if kitty is scum, i feel that mastina's wagon was mostly town-led. because like, idk i feel like scum would want to keep mastina around, because it was very clear mastina is going to be a lot of noise, and i kind of don't think kitty/norwee are s/s (though i'd double check on that; mostly talking from memory here) so mastina being alive would've been a great distraction. and she's claimed to be a not powerful role in the hood, and nonzero chance there's a mole in that hood, so.

- if kitty is town, i feel like alisae is a very likely scum candidate. especially since... well i really think bear is town, and the fact that alisae keeps positioning themself to push bear in the near future, it does not give me good vibes. like, lowkey i'm wondering if i'm getting pocketed by alisae shitting on bear's push on me. not sure if i have any thoughts further than that in this universe, i think i had some sorta idea of mastina's wagon being scum-led in this universe, but i don't remember why anymore.

i guess, even if kitty did flip scum, i would have to reread kitty/alisae anyway, because (assuming mastina didn't straight up lie about alisae's meta), a history of strong uses could potentially be an issue, but... this is a problem for another day.

[Datisi]

VOTE: kittytacky

as for who else i want to sus -- idk lol. t3's posting is kind of bad, and i wanna hear what shiro/marashu have going on.

these all feal kind of... lhf, so i am very likely misreading someone, probably multiple people, so i'll keep an eye out on that ig.

[Datisi]

in their past scum games they usually struggled to respond to pushes on them and questioning of them consistently. they've already done more here in that respect than they ever have before

have you looked at all his scumgames? which ones?

[Datisi]

in their past scum games they usually struggled to respond to pushes on them and questioning of them consistently. they've already done more here in that respect than they ever have before

have you looked at all his scumgames? which ones?

I can’t not scum read you for posts like this.
Who investigates this angle?
What are you expecting to find? Them lying? Something to agree or disagree on? Where is this going to lead? Is it a good use of your time? Will it help you read fire?

...

fire said kitty has done more here than "ever before". i don't know if this is an exaggeration or not. (to be clear, neither is scummy; the purpose of this isn't to read fire.) if it's not an exaggeration, i want to know which games they've looked at. (1) so i can potentially look at those games myself if i need to, (2) so i can potentially enter a conversation with fire? because they said they've struggled to respond to pressure as scum before, and like... kitty's play here looks exactly like that description? but i don't have the meta they have? so i wanna see if i'm wrong about that (i.e. kitty struggles much more than here as scum) or if fire is wrong?

like... at this point surely you can also see that you've decided to see all of my posts in the worst light possible because this is not even that difficult of a post to parse

pedit: cephrir, why do you consider me "valuable as town"? why do you even find me scum for at this point?

and i'm also interested in whatever the fuck is happening with that 1sbp thing but i guess wait until charloux is back

[Datisi]

well that makes me think you're trying to test the waters of pushing me so yes, that is not satisfying in the slightest

[Datisi]

why would i need to test the waters when i already know from yesterday that pushing you is viable

ik it's viable

but if you go "idk datisi is kinda scummy right guys right i'm not gonna push him but am i right" it (1) lets other people know that you will support my yeet (2) without you actually going in head first

and the fact that you had the same thoughts yesterday kinda makes it worse because it makes it clear you didn't actually try to sort me at all

[Datisi]

I think Datisi is the best flip for the gamestate right now.

why.

[Datisi]

I think Datisi is the best flip for the gamestate right now.

why.

Because it answers a lot about the motivations for yesterday.

I could also go with fire or Val flips.

i am asking you to spell it out. what EXACTLY does it answer. if i flip red. if i flip green.

i can sense that i'm a possible misyeet, especially if i'm right on kitty being scum, so i'm not letting people get it with reasoning as vague and meaningless as "best for gamestate".

[Datisi]

My VCA doesn't give exact names yet. Too early. I postulated some partners you might have in the post. Second, why are you concerned with what happens if you flip red if it should never be a possibility?

All my notes say is scum preferred you to live over mastina. It could be possible, although unlikely, she had a decent pool so she was limmed rather than nightkilled.

i'm "concerned" because if you don't give a coherent answer to what happens when i flip red, then i know you're full of shit

how do you know that it's exactly ME that scum were defending, and not norwee or marashu or kitty or t3 or whoever else was a wagon at any point in day 1. why is it me that is the best flip here?

mastina had me as locktown, never reeval. so if you wanna postulate she had a "decent pool", keep that in mind.

[Datisi]

- why can’t I be town with the stances I have? What’s the expectations u have of me in ur head?
- why is being wrong twice suddenly suddenly mean I am a wolf? Seems like the kind of unrealistic expectations I would hold someone like raybells to.
- I don’t know the bear player why do u think he is not capable of what he has done as scum? If ur town help me see it because u clearly are seeing it and I’m just not.

it's not that you "can't" be town with those stances, i don't understand how town-you works and makes reads and i don't pretend to. it's just that, if kitty flips green, (and i'm preflipping bear green in my head), this game starts to dangerously look like what i would expect scum-alisae to be doing -- i.e. not beating around the bush with side stuff, doing exactly what their team needs done, straightforward pushing misyeets, etc

it wouldn't be wrong twice, it would be wrong three times >_> and i agree it's a harsh standard, but your push on mastina already gave me goosebumps d1 which i did call out, and it's mostly a vibe where i don't feel any sort of... hesitation? remorse? much reevaluation? like i expect scum-you to be going for the throat one after the other and that's kinda what i'm seeing if kitty flips green, so... and i don't think i've noticed any "i don't think scum-alisae would be doing this" moments, at least not with the flips we currently have

and i can't answer that without alt outing

[Datisi]

how can u say this is my scumgame if u don’t know how my town game functions?
Why would I be hesitant about mastina? Why would I show remorse or reevaluation? What mastina post would cause me to think these things? I’ve said so many times I think mastina was the best flip in the game, and as town I look at the bigger picture, like what Norwee is trying to do, I remove myself from the game and form reads based on the things I see happen in the game.

Out the alt.
knowing who alt are and choosing not to out them is extremely toxic and removes the point of secret alting in the first place. You have an unfavorable advantage over me.
We can’t talk about the read anyways if you don’t and it’s something I would like to do…
Like why does most of the playerlist get to know who the person is but not me who came back from my self ban?
How is that fair at all :/

i don't know how your towngame functions, but i know there are some tidbits that don't make sense from scum-you - that's how i townread you in that 9:12 game a bit back if you remember

it's not just about mastina, it's also about kitty and bear -- and it's also the fact that going after mastina is a good cover for not NEEDING to show those emotions because mastina was playing the way she was

which is like, mad unlucky if you're town and ended up going after 3 townies in that fashion but eh

also i'm not gonna out the alt, i don't think anyone else figured it out other than me, and besides that

i am fairly certain that i remember you at one point saying that outing someone's alt in mid game without their permission is an asshole move, so - why are you asking me to do that here?

(i see t3 wagon is a thing, i don't dislike it, i'll catch up on things in a bit but i wanted to get this out now)

[Datisi]

Your wagon looked to be particularly consistent and the best guess based on how the votes peeled off.

what does the votes on me have to do with anything - in particular, a good portion of my votes were people that decided i was scum on like page 10 and then never cared to re-evaluate

i don't know how that impacts your vca but also they were bullshit and i don't think you can learn much just by vca here

--

ok i read up i don't actually have much to add. titus/pp exchange is ??? but i need to actually relook at the history to figure out who is right, and i have a headache currently so that's not happening at this moment

anyway t3 wagon very cool

[Datisi]

it's a good wagon because it's on t3

fwiw, if t3 is scum, i would be very surprised if no scum is voting him right now, so... i don't really care if his wagon is unclean

@alisae, i'm pretty sure i'm right and i don't wanna answer the other stuff. like i said, it majorly sucks if you're town and it so happened that you suspected 3 town people in a weird way, but /shrug, cross that bridge if we get to it

[Datisi]

Aren’t you doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing then?

sorry i don't get what you mean

[Datisi]

yeah i guess those two events look similar in a vacuum, sure

[Datisi]

et tu, brute?

[Datisi]

et tu, brute?

goddammit i know this avatar makes me look scummy but i didn't want to be the one to say it lmfao

i could have had some bitchin anime cat fanart avatar but ydrasse had to give me this IT'S HER FAULT

tbh it's mostly that i cannot take you seriously anymore and i have to keep reminding myself that you're catboi and not some noob rando with a crappy cat avatar

[Datisi]

catboi, how serious are you in saying my posts are scummier to you, and if any amount serious - why and how can i help you

maybe i'm confbiasing but seeing catboi actually lay out things that i was vaguely feeling were wrong with kitty's posting is like, nice

[Datisi]

you're catboi and not some noob rando with a crappy cat avatar

cue 3 separate posts in the spectator PT going "but those are the same thing!!"

you're not a

rando

noob

also yeah ok that's fine i'm fine sure alright that's cool

[Datisi]

how dare you, serial killer shin is great

tho he might be a hindrance in mafia you're right

i need my catboi shin pfp again, that's why i'm getting scumread

[Datisi]

with the T3 flash happening in the way it did im not convinced thats true anymore

do you think there is scum pushing t3 here? who is it? and why couldn't scum be split between pushing t3 AND pushing mastina's reads?

[Datisi]

with the T3 flash happening in the way it did im not convinced thats true anymore

do you think there is scum pushing t3 here? who is it? and why couldn't scum be split between pushing t3 AND pushing mastina's reads?

yes, pending further information, it's possible but there isn't necessarily evidence for it which makes my point moot

have you considered reading some posts that catboi put out recently on why kitty is scumy regardless of The Scum Plan

[Datisi]

lolcatting would be my answer, but idk lole

[Datisi]

1. your claimed excuse for being inactive early day 1 doesn't make much sense because there's no reason to believe your usual output in games would be at risk of getting postcapped.

I explained it several times already, it was psychological pressure since I never played with such a restriction before and got subconsciously scared.

2. your vote on norwee looked like an opportunistic scum one (something I also agreed with)

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

So I think both of these are fallacious and just scum latching on.

what changed for catboi? why is it that catboi is scum latching onto you, but i am still a strong townread for being "aggressive" or whatever, when all i've done in the past few days is gone "ye catboi make good case"? why is catboi not in your limpool in 2180?

also, something about kitty backtracking in 2170 feels off. just like. idk. originally he called titus town for "decent progression and motivation" in 1935, and then was pushed to explain it, but like... why not immediately say it's gut? why essentially make up reasoning about it? why not link multiple posts? why not mention the word "gut" at any point before your reasoning is called out for not making any sense?

---

i like bell voting shiro. the thing that makes me think of is holiday dance party, where shiro was playing and some people quickly townread them, and i *feel* like they were more engaged there than they are here? it's obviously a small sample size and god knows i am not fact checking shit right now, but i got my eye on them and would very much like them to actually play this game

---

another vague thought i had is if it is true that some of lhf-ers are scum this game (kitty, shiro, t3, marashu), then that kind of would explain alisae's erratic behvaiour, because i do remember them saying how they need a good team to function as scum, and in a game like this i could? see them being annoyed? though i would actually have to check if they bus the lhf-ers in that scenario and also this is again not immediately relevant but i typed it up so i'm posting it

---

also i vaguely agree with fire's possible sus of cephrir, he does sorta feel like... idk passive and not wanting to be here, and i remember him being excited to be town in ktane? again not something to immediately worry about, but it does seem interesting (coupled with my feelsies of him weirdly stepping around my slot earlier)

[Datisi]

where is marashu

[Datisi]

1. your claimed excuse for being inactive early day 1 doesn't make much sense because there's no reason to believe your usual output in games would be at risk of getting postcapped.

I explained it several times already, it was psychological pressure since I never played with such a restriction before and got subconsciously scared.

2. your vote on norwee looked like an opportunistic scum one (something I also agreed with)

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

So I think both of these are fallacious and just scum latching on.

HOW is bolded supposed to be referring to alisae? what does "both" mean?

[Datisi]

oh wait nvm i'm stupid that was catboi repeating alisae's reasons

[Datisi]

ok i see what i actually want to ask here:

kitty, why do you think that alisae's reasoning is bad? what makes you think it's scum latching on and that it can't come from town? because both the reasons that catboi lined out it 2119 are something that i strongly agree with makes you look suspicious, despite your excuses for them

[Datisi]

and where did the scumread on me go

[Datisi]

ok i see what i actually want to ask here:

kitty, why do you think that alisae's reasoning is bad? what makes you think it's scum latching on and that it can't come from town? because both the reasons that catboi lined out it 2119 are something that i strongly agree with makes you look suspicious, despite your excuses for them

I explained my reasons in the very post I quoted. Why is it so inconcievable that someone who's never played with even a lenient post restriction would be anxious about it? Yes it is irrational but people aren't robots. I got over it anyways, with some difficulty. As for the latter, idk why people see me simply sheeping something as opportunistic. Just because I had little to add?

that's not my question

i am asking whether you think alisae's thoughts can or can't come from town

because i agree with them and you think i'm town

but you think alisae is scummy for them

so what is it

[Datisi]

Because if you were scum you wouldn't deathpush a townie that hard day 1. It would likely result in your death the next day or at the very least prevent you from reaching endgame.

i have reached endgame as scum after shitpushing weak townies out of the game, thank you very much (yes, this is me saying i would absolutely do it, which i have been hinting at for a bit and idk how you don't seem to notice that)

and also why doesn't this apply to alisae? by the same logic, they're also going to be struggling to reach endgame after you flip green, no?

[Datisi]

k

[Datisi]

the amount of time and arguments i've put out against one vs the other say otherwise, but go off ig

[Datisi]

literally scumtisi lmao

[Datisi]

Bell - Several posts made by him felt very genuine, and I liked his response to FA’s case on him. I think someone said he is out of his scum range, and from my experience with Bell I would agree.
Titus - I don’t think that scum!Titus would be so open about her mech information, both from my impression of her as a player and from her play in Datisi’s cafe. She made a complicated masonizer claim when wagoned, but she left no kind of crumb or soft prior to her claim, which leads me to believe scum!Titus probably wouldn’t go out of her way to fake all her mech info. I don’t have much about her play this game that I feel particularly strongly about.

ok, now all the other reads

[Datisi]

my reads are kind of similar to yesterday except with a few people now gaining a few ??? points because they're giving me a headache

[Datisi]

in particluar, that they FOS Catboi for pushing on KT today

this sounds... weird? why are they fosing him for that?

[Datisi]

Don't worry folks, we have over 7 days to the deadline, that's enough time for T3 to actually explain his reads on...*counting on fingers* 16 players!

holy shit, how many fingers do you have

[Datisi]

The T3 flashwagon is so weird. I'd say it's +scum for Alisae but they are already rock bottom scummy along with Norwe, so.

why is it scummy?

Because T3 doesn't seem to be faking imo and just seems to be genuinely struggling with catching up.

Might as well disclose it since scum likely know by now.
Titus joined Wind Clan and I asked in wind clan if we could potentially flashwagon T3 since I townread everyone else in hood. This makes sense since we were talking about if there was scum in the hood and I thought if there was scum in our hood its probs just T3.
Norwee agreed with the idea so I went with it. I obvs couldn't get to check in with Val or Shiro about it since time was kind off of the essence. It was an idea worth trying because maybe if we did say eliminate T3 and flip him before he could tell scum that Titus joined Wind Clan, that would be a huge edge to have over scum. This is assuming he does flip scum ofc.

Ah. Well I think you're scum, this wagon is scum-motivated, and so T3 is more likely town unless it's a bus. :shrug:

how did we go from here to putting t3 in poe to voting there

[Datisi]

All I really want to say is while Kitty might be a good flip, I think it flips town and I've been solving under that impression.

i really don't love that this is the second time you admit you don't even think the person you're hardshoving is scum

wait, i just checked, your vote is on t3? okay that's not as bad, nevermind

Guy plays like newbtown.

where and why did you get this impression? i see 2423 exists but that does not convince me

IT IS FRUSTRATING TO RECIEVE RESPONSES LIKE 1311 AND THEN SEE A POST LIKE 2417 COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT MOTIVATES ME OR WHAT FACTORS I'M LOOKING AT.

this is extremely rich coming from you, bear.

(also short note - i prefer people not use they/them for me, i have my pronouns listed right under my avatar, thanks)

mood

ok this was really not as useful as i'd hoped it would be uhh

[Datisi]

I wouldn't even say my read on T3 is strong just PoE since it doesn't make any sense for anyone else to be a wolf in wind clan unless it's like Val or something and I'm not buying that.

why do you think there HAS to be a wolf in your clan?

[Datisi]

I mean how on Earth would you know about the quality of my reads so early unless you are informed or scum?

didn't you literally just quote and respond to the part where they explain this

sidenote, i am getting... stressed about the catboi/alisae conversation that's going on. i'm not *sure* what i think about it yet and what i should be thinking about it, but uh not good feels.

[Datisi]

But like it's a fact that I actually did read the one flip we know correctly?

why do you keep repeating this as if it actually means anything or matters for anything

[Datisi]

I wouldn't even say my read on T3 is strong just PoE since it doesn't make any sense for anyone else to be a wolf in wind clan unless it's like Val or something and I'm not buying that.

why do you think there HAS to be a wolf in your clan?

please answer this, ali

[Datisi]

I wouldn't even say my read on T3 is strong just PoE since it doesn't make any sense for anyone else to be a wolf in wind clan unless it's like Val or something and I'm not buying that.

why do you think there HAS to be a wolf in your clan?

please answer this, ali

[Datisi]

I wouldn't even say my read on T3 is strong just PoE since it doesn't make any sense for anyone else to be a wolf in wind clan unless it's like Val or something and I'm not buying that.

why do you think there HAS to be a wolf in your clan?

please answer this, ali

[Datisi]

alisae why are you ignoring me

[Datisi]

i have reasons why i asked the question and i'd appreciate an answer

sucks that you ask for faith in norwee while immediately jumping to my townread on bear being tmi but i'll see if i think that's genuine or not

[Datisi]

"i think you're a wolf and your play has been worse today, so i am going to actively block you from getting the info that you need to solve and play better"

ok alisae, you're not gonna shitpush me from this game

[Datisi]

you can change it by showing me good faith and not acting like an omniscient asshole when that is not what you are!

pedit: okay cool

i now need an explanation why you think t3 is scum, and when and why you strated seeing kitty as town

[Datisi]

you didn't. your reasons for scumreading t3 boil down to "he's poe via hood" but that doesn't make sense as there is not necessarily scum in your hood anyway. yet you are preflipping a shit ton of things based on t3 being scum. which is either circular reasoning or doesn't make sense and i wanna know where the t3 read stems from

the only things you said about why you townread kitty there is him being genuine about the reaction to you trying to cancel him and that post about town meta, which like whatever i guess is A Reason, but also i think you mentioned somewhere that the way he explains his reads is newbtown and i wanna know where you got thta imporession? like i feel like your read on kitty should be based on more things by zhe way it's currently influencing your thoughts on the game

[Datisi]

i haven't read your most recent posts with kitty carefully as i have been classposting, if you have explained it there then my bad, i'll read them proper when i come home

why do you keep ignoring the t3 bit

[Datisi]

where is the stem of your read on him then?

[Datisi]

ok but like why do you think that

that's my entire question

you never explained what made you think so and why

[Datisi]

like i know his play has been lol but you just randomly decided he was scum at one point and i don't get how you're suddenly preflipping so much based on a read you didn't talk about

[Datisi]

so preflip based on literally nothing

k

[Datisi]

scumtisi would be insulted at this

[Datisi]

you actually have but i don't wanna think about that game