Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[Tammy]

Hi!

[Tammy]

woop woop let the ffery/cabd dance begin.

I sit over here on the bleachers.

[Tammy]

Hi!

welcome back

VOTE: Tammy

VOTE: petapan

OMGUS How Dare you!

Good to see you again!

[Tammy]

[Tammy]

your dance needs to pick up the pace

phrozen all sides

[Tammy]

spicy is a scum tell dude

[Tammy]

spicy is a scum tell dude

rlly?

Yep super serious scum tell! Everyone who's ever used spicy has flipped scum, or that's what I was told by mafia one time.

[Tammy]

spicy is a scum tell dude

rlly?

Yep super serious scum tell! Everyone who's ever used spicy has flipped scum, or that's what I was told by mafia one time.

you got me then

I see you. I know.

[Tammy]

Thanks

I'll go back to my corner now


all by myself

[Tammy]

spicy is a scum tell dude

sPiCy

but when you post it like that it's a town tell.

Thank you!

[Tammy]

oh hey

rawr

[Tammy]

the rawr is to alisae not syr, syr don't get rawrs

[Tammy]

hi tammy how r u

I'm good! Shooting down balloons trying to get spooky recipes and pretending I don't have a pile of things to grade.

You?

[Tammy]

Pooky did a roleplay act in micro 935 as Tracer Bullet. He was scum. I'm not saying that it translates to this game, but sometimes I think people townread people who do what pooky is doing. Hopefully he just stops doing it asap

Good to know. Me. I'm one of those people that townread things like that early. Mostly because I love it when people role play and it makes me smile and I town read people who make me laugh.

[Tammy]

Oh well.

Maybe I'll come back when the game starts then

the game started when i voted nahdia, the mafia

but they said it wasn't them.

[Tammy]

Pooky did a roleplay act in micro 935 as Tracer Bullet. He was scum. I'm not saying that it translates to this game, but sometimes I think people townread people who do what pooky is doing. Hopefully he just stops doing it asap

Good to know. Me. I'm one of those people that townread things like that early. Mostly because I love it when people role play and it makes me smile and I town read people who make me laugh.

Porkins amirite?

Yeah! That was awesome. I don't remember the game, but I remember the role play.

[Tammy]

Oh well.

Maybe I'll come back when the game starts then

the game started when i voted nahdia, the mafia

but they said it wasn't them.

your defense of your partner is noted

oops I knew I was bad at this

[Tammy]

I don't get the point and I don't see the problem yet. I really doubt scum!Jake is going to come out of the game posting votecounts instead of trying to form connections with other people.

your defense of your partner is noted

am I doing it right peta?

[Tammy]

I don't get the point and I don't see the problem yet. I really doubt scum!Jake is going to come out of the game posting votecounts instead of trying to form connections with other people.

your defense of your partner is noted

am I doing it right peta?

nah because the bear's town

jake might be scum though

Early trying to be helpful tell instead of engage best tell

[Tammy]

Early trying to be helpful tell instead of engage best tell

How serious is this

eh 50/50

It's a tell, not the best tell. The best tell is when people don't vote in rvs in an anon game.

That's not the best tell either

But it's a tell. Sometimes a sign of nervous scum trying to make an entrance, sometimes it's just a matter of play style. some people do things like that regardless. It's a place to start though.

[Tammy]

this feels like a zero-dimensional view of scum play?

I mean... I don’t think doing a random vote count is really going to seem townie or get you townread.
Case in point.

Nobody does something like that to get towered when scum, typically odd entrances are just from people who don't know how to enter the thread and do something like that for an entrance. If town, he just thought it would be helpful.

As far as your meta thing previously, yeah that's not the type of meta I subscribe to anyway.

[Tammy]

okay it's late and almost page 10 which means my internal mafia clock says it's time to start making serious posts too

I don't wanna

[Tammy]

Ffery and I are currently having a lovely moonlight waltz, with Tammy thrown into the mix because she's a great waltz instructor.

Hi Tammy!

Only problem is I only know the dutch waltz on ice so my instruction is a little awkward :/

[Tammy]

okay it's late and almost page 10 which means my internal mafia clock says it's time to start making serious posts too

I don't wanna

Hi Tammy, I have expressed read(s), do you agree with those read(s) or no, and why?

It's srsbsns time!

I have no comment on your reads at this time.

My processing chip hasn't even started whirring yet.

[Tammy]

okay it's late and almost page 10 which means my internal mafia clock says it's time to start making serious posts too

I don't wanna

Hi Tammy, I have expressed read(s), do you agree with those read(s) or no, and why?

It's srsbsns time!

I have no comment on your reads at this time.

My processing chip hasn't even started whirring yet.

It's page ten.

Shutdown -r /f

There was supposed to be a good night at the end of my page nine post.

I have zoom training in the morning again and I need my brain back.

Feeling observant at the moment; mostly seeing how a couple things play out

[Tammy]

Only problem is I only know the dutch waltz on ice so my instruction is a little awkward :/

We've danced beautifully in the past and I fully expect you to continue the trend[/quote]


We can get you a pair of skates and you can come join me any time!

[Tammy]

Only problem is I only know the dutch waltz on ice so my instruction is a little awkward :/

We've danced beautifully in the past and I fully expect you to continue the trend

We can get you a pair of skates and you can come join me any time!

If I feel this strong urge to be humiliated and bruised I'll be sure to hit you up! I have the equilibrium of a dying giraffe.[/quote]

I've been trying to think of a witty response but I have none. Which I would say just means I'm tired but sadly it's not.

Fine we can do it your way. I'd hate to see you bruised., nacho would kill me.

[Tammy]

okay it's late and almost page 10 which means my internal mafia clock says it's time to start making serious posts too

I don't wanna

Hi Tammy, I have expressed read(s), do you agree with those read(s) or no, and why?

It's srsbsns time!

A few quick thoughts while I'm on a break.

I don't really have reads I feel close to comfortable right now or thoughts that probably really go anywhere. I mourn pre-2015 me who got early reads, but I've been so much more cautious since that scum streak from hell.

Anyway, I have liked midwaybear's approach in general and have no issues with him so far. I particularly like him tonally. There was a post where someone asked him why he was grumpy and he just said something like this was him or how he plays or something. And that had a much better tone than the wooden response he had whenever he was called scum in FGO. So, not enough for me to go oh hey yeah he's town, but I like him enough that I have no qualms with it.

I liked ffer's response to your questions about reads when she said me ~reasons. I don't know how scum ffery would approach a town you, but I'm thinking about how she approached me the last time she was scum and it was a kinda flat fake paranoia that rang all wrong. (I was scum reading her predecessor and she was hydraing with nacho who purple prose scum told in his beginning, so I was already wary so that could be some confirmation bias.). I think scum ffery wouldn't be expecting that you would be town reading her, though she might have to respond that way because that's how she would as town? The way you guys are lady and the tramping it suggests you both are town reading each other decently, and I'm still in watching that play out mode.

I'm cautiously optimistic on ffery there and I'm in a similar position with Syry. I don't expect syr to fold faster than a player with. 2 7 off suite with pressure anymore; I think his scum game has come a long way since when we were partners. But I do know that he would hate to draw scum here, and with that knowledge I like his entrance so far. I was a little concerned with the super strong town read on ffery so quickly, but syry is like that? So, maybe sryr and I will dance later and I'll feel better later. These two reads are my crux; cautiously optimistic at the moment but I also really want them both to be town and I know that which might be making me feel even more cautious about the optimism.

As an aside because I now have to run. Think ffery expected petapan to come into the game as assassin going hard, but peta just seems like peta to me.

[Tammy]

okay it's late and almost page 10 which means my internal mafia clock says it's time to start making serious posts too

I don't wanna

Hi Tammy, I have expressed read(s), do you agree with those read(s) or no, and why?

It's srsbsns time!

I ain't Tammy but I'ma respond to this anyways. Curmudgeonly Syr-mode activate! I disagree with yer first read; tryharding that early on pings me. Honestly not a damn clue what you're seeing in that one. And yes, I was there for Archer too. Second read is bang on and fuck easy for anyone in the Chicago cabal to get. Third? Can't be arsed to try to infer who your third read is.

Got another quick break so I'll expand on my thoughts. This was the one that gave me pause. I know that Syr is busting bravado type with reads and such naturally, but I guess it felt a little extra. Enough for me to go hmm, but again I might just be being dumb squinty.

(His wheels on the bus go round and round didn't fit the text he included it on, so that one felt like posting it for effect rather than using a gif that applies to the text. Yes, I'm crazy I know.)

[Tammy]

This lack of genuine conversation just makes it hard to find a solid tell on people.

Not everyone has been roleplaying and doing stuff like that
Any thoughts on the dynamic between Cabd, fferylt, Tammy, and Syryana or is it similarly unreadable to you like the roleplay? Also, let me know what you think about SirCakez

Aight, so I've played a couple games with Cabd and fferylt so I'll start with them.

This reads heavily like town fferylt. It's hard to explain, but the general demeanor has a lot of direction that kinda lacks in her scumgame.
Cabd is a null!scum read. It really reads as if he's begging for validation from other folks in the crowd, specifically Tammy, but that's not as hard of a read on Cabd as it is with some others.

Tammy equally reads null!scum, but I'm not sure if I like these two together. For someone as experienced as them, they're giving a whole lot of half-assed content. Plus, they've interacted really poorly with you and fferylt (for the record, I've got you as a null!town rn, but we'll see). But back to what I originally touched on, I don't think that Cabd+Tammy is scum theater. That's the only strong read I have rn in this pair.

Syryana reads a decent null!town rn. Her reaction to your engagement sounded natural, but beyond that there's not much else. A lot of posts that had a lot of words, but didn't really

say

anything.

PEdit: Holy shit a lot of posts while I was digging through. Umm, yeah, fferylt, my main question is what are your reads on some of the lesser posted people (so not the other 3 in the quad above, and not midway)

We played a few games together back when! I don't remember anything about your play though just that we played.

BUT, can you unpack the cabd is seeking approval from people? It seems you focused on me, but at the time you wrote this he'd only addressed me once.

(I didn't give any content btw! It's against my religion :p)

[Tammy]

peta you even made his avatar grumpy

[Tammy]

okay it's late and almost page 10 which means my internal mafia clock says it's time to start making serious posts too

I don't wanna

Hi Tammy, I have expressed read(s), do you agree with those read(s) or no, and why?

It's srsbsns time!

I ain't Tammy but I'ma respond to this anyways. Curmudgeonly Syr-mode activate! I disagree with yer first read; tryharding that early on pings me. Honestly not a damn clue what you're seeing in that one. And yes, I was there for Archer too. Second read is bang on and fuck easy for anyone in the Chicago cabal to get. Third? Can't be arsed to try to infer who your third read is.

Got another quick break so I'll expand on my thoughts. This was the one that gave me pause. I know that Syr is busting bravado type with reads and such naturally, but I guess it felt a little extra. Enough for me to go hmm, but again I might just be being dumb squinty.

(His wheels on the bus go round and round didn't fit the text he included it on, so that one felt like posting it for effect rather than using a gif that applies to the text. Yes, I'm crazy I know.)

I'm right here you know.

I know. You're everywhere!

You can respond and tell me I'm dumb. i mean I'm very aware how dumb the parentheses sounds so go easy on me on that one, unless if i'm right and then I'm gonna be like damn I'm a genius on gif tells.

[Tammy]

OH!

I was like dude I was "defending" nahdia there not pushing them, so I was super confused because I thought you were implying I was bussing nahdia.

I need sleep. My brain is like literally dead, fried, toast.

I think I am also a bit skeptical of the early town read because when we hydrad in that chef game, the one where we were the hydra, I think I remember you town reading a scum ffery pretty early day one. That read turned around day two, but I think if I'm remember correctly, you also have a tendency to get a strong town read there early regardless. So I guess I"m double squinting at you a bit. Like A are you over emphasizing a read you think you'd have if town and B if town do I trust your early read if I think you have a tendency to have that read regardless. (Don't mind my mind; it's a mess in here.)

[Tammy]

*the one where we were the hider.

[Tammy]

Also the dance isn't going like it should. You're supposed to call me scum. I then get fake offended and tell you you're dumb to even think such a thing. We laugh and seal it with a dip.

[Tammy]

I've always thought that you had a good scum game it's probably why it took me 50 years longer than it should have to feel comfortable reading you back then. And that game you were fine. I think the only reason why we were convinced you were scum day two was because of your reaction to use getting your partner eliminated the first day.

[Tammy]

[Tammy]

Also the dance isn't going like it should. You're supposed to call me scum. I then get fake offended and tell you you're dumb to even think such a thing. We laugh and seal it with a dip.

It seems to be a dance in reverse. You're calling ME scum, and I AM offended. Like I haven't done any lighty shiny business that makes me a locktown ITT mason and shit yet, but fuck me you should have SOME idea that I didn't roll red. How dare you!

[/quote]

dealwithit.jpg

Also, I was gonna post a pic of a woman dipping a man in a dance and say lol it's k guyz you're town we're good.

BUT there's literally no pics of a woman dipping a man that I could find and I don't have your photoshopping skills, so use your imagination!

[Tammy]

Halp send help

I wanna townread cakes for a conversation about yeast

[Tammy]

Once in a game empoof and I had a page long discussion about the best way to cook breakfast. We town read each other for that early day one conversation and that read continued to build from that.

It happens sometimes.

[Tammy]

Gamma was that the anon game I was in? If so, Which person were you?

[Tammy]

Cool, thanks! I’ll have to check back to see i if I read you correctly

[Tammy]

Omg Tammy is so town would be a good response!

[Tammy]

The tension in this thread is rising.

Where?

[Tammy]

That joke totally went over my head.

I need sleep bad.

[Tammy]

Nahdia that post was a joke.

[Tammy]

Why would you need feedback on whether it was a scummy post though?

[Tammy]

That’s probably a dumb question actually. I have the question or response I want in my head to try to understand you a little better, but I’m having a hard time wording today.

[Tammy]

i guess because i feel the post is sort of blanket scummy rather than having a cogent reason for it being so. so if the general consensus is that im wrong, then maybe i should just trust everyone elses' gut over my own?

i do think it somewhat fits into a general pattern of you reading a bit self-conscious of your own contribution though around that point in the game though. posts 224, 235, and 242 play into this as well.

So for the first part uh I was just looking for a post to copy peta’s joke about me being your partner

Yeah, you’re interpreting those posts wrong. That was me recognizing my self imposed don’t do anything serious until page ten limit was about to expire and I still wasn’t in the mood to be serious.

I am, however, self conscious of my own contribution, and have already read my iso a coupe times to see if I would be town reading me. I would by the way! Yes, I know I’m an absolute crazy person.

[Tammy]

Which I guess is still self conscious actually, but not in the way you interpreted it to be. I think.

[Tammy]

Omg Tammy is so town!

See how easy that was.

[Tammy]

Maybe?

I guess it depends on my mood? I don’t know? Maybe not.

I’m really uncomfortable with people town reading me when I’m scum though and uncomfortable calling myself town when I’m scum because I feel like everyone can tell the difference between when I’m goofing around and meaning it as town and saying it when I’m scum because I say it when I’m town.

So, I don’t know but it doesn’t matter because I’m not scum this time!

[Tammy]

Maybe?

I guess it depends on my mood? I don’t know? Maybe not.

I’m really uncomfortable with people town reading me when I’m scum though and uncomfortable calling myself town when I’m scum because I feel like everyone can tell the difference between when I’m goofing around and meaning it as town and saying it when I’m scum because I say it when I’m town.

So, I don’t know but it doesn’t matter because I’m not scum this time!

Ok I will keep an eye out for strange uncomfortable-ness!

It was probably there in alisae’s game.

There was a game several years ago where Plotinus tried to solidify their town read on me by talking about how town I was a lot to see if I’d get uncomfortable and stop interacting with them. It was anon, so I didn’t it was them, so I just filed it away as wow someone thinks I’m town and I don’t think I’m thaaaat town. It was amusing when I learned what they were doing after the game.

Do you have any hot takes so far?

[Tammy]

I think I’m working towards this

Midway bear seems decently town

Ffery, syry and cakes are in the i feel like I’m deveoping town reads on these people pool

I should maybe put Cabd in there too but we’ll watch that a little more. Also you didn’t respond to my thought post to you!

Peta’s Peta wheels haven’t seemed to start turning yet

Few minor pings that I’m watching to see how things play out with but aren’t worth mentioning yet.

[Tammy]

I too think Petapan could be doing better. But I also don't think intermediate town play is scummy (I don't know what advanced level townplay looks like)

Diamond's entrance is odd. 3 P guess off the bat.

@Hi Tammy, hating your life yet, or feelin it?

Well I haven’t slept in a week, and I’m so tired I can feel my skull expanding and will hopefully crash soon, so that I’m hating.

But feelin every thing else!

[Tammy]

Omg Tammy is so town would be a good response!

Omg Tammy is so town!

This is actually a bit serious. Referencing the anon dance again, she reminds me of how she played as Lady 7 in that game.

Oh that’s right, I went back and checked my iso that game. I scum read you the whole time.

[Tammy]

Ah Cabd, no I didn’t really need a response I guess, but my self-absorbed self likes responses :p

Ffery and syry are a little higher priority read for me right now, so that’s taken up the majority of my headspace.

Don’t worry I’ll get to you and well the you is tied up in the ffery and to a lesser extent syry space if that makes sense.

[Tammy]

What's your mod meta on it?

[Tammy]

I'd like for Tammy to talk more about petapan's normal play range.

My experience with peta is seven years old, and I've never seen a scum game though I believe I remember hearing that he has a good one.

In my head, he's an easy going poster who is active but not terribly wordy and pokes around at things until he finds something that bites. But when he does can be quite insightful and has good reads, which you saw with assassin. The play might change so the meta of the play won't be the same, but I expect the insight and the way he comes to his reads probably isn't all that different, and that will come when reads form. If that makes sense.

This morning I went back and looked at his iso is Abarat and The Wire just to see if my activity memory was right, and he was little more active there (I think it was me just glancing at the iso so take that observation with a grain of salt; it was not in depth by any means) and he had a little bit more bite (in Abarat at least but that game started off weird). I wouldn't really expect the bite to be there really and old meta is old meta. I was mostly just making sure I wasn't remembering a very different play.

I kinda put peta's style in a similar vein as visorslash, I don't know if you've ever seen him play or not, but the style has some similarities I think.

Don't know if any of that helps.

[Tammy]

I'm not familiar with vosorslash. Thanks for the rundown, though!

You spectated FGO. How do you feel about the split regarding Bell's play here vs there? I know playing a game is very different from watching one unfold, but still. Would like your thoughts.

The only thing I remember about bell in that game is him really wanting the master, and my spectating of that game was really uneven, and I was spoiled.

I haven't really been paying attention to bell this game yet. When midway bear made the post about wanting to be top poster, I checked activity and bell has more posts than I do which surprised me because I don't really remember bell posting that much. I know there's concern on bell from you guys who played the game especially those of you from Fate.

I need to go back and read from the beginning and pick up all those little pieces I didn't pay much attention to yet. Hopefully that will be later today if I can get this last lecture information and assignments posted.

[Tammy]

This lack of genuine conversation just makes it hard to find a solid tell on people.

Not everyone has been roleplaying and doing stuff like that
Any thoughts on the dynamic between Cabd, fferylt, Tammy, and Syryana or is it similarly unreadable to you like the roleplay? Also, let me know what you think about SirCakez

Aight, so I've played a couple games with Cabd and fferylt so I'll start with them.

This reads heavily like town fferylt. It's hard to explain, but the general demeanor has a lot of direction that kinda lacks in her scumgame.
Cabd is a null!scum read. It really reads as if he's begging for validation from other folks in the crowd, specifically Tammy, but that's not as hard of a read on Cabd as it is with some others.

Tammy equally reads null!scum, but I'm not sure if I like these two together. For someone as experienced as them, they're giving a whole lot of half-assed content. Plus, they've interacted really poorly with you and fferylt (for the record, I've got you as a null!town rn, but we'll see). But back to what I originally touched on, I don't think that Cabd+Tammy is scum theater. That's the only strong read I have rn in this pair.

Syryana reads a decent null!town rn. Her reaction to your engagement sounded natural, but beyond that there's not much else. A lot of posts that had a lot of words, but didn't really

say

anything.

PEdit: Holy shit a lot of posts while I was digging through. Umm, yeah, fferylt, my main question is what are your reads on some of the lesser posted people (so not the other 3 in the quad above, and not midway)

We played a few games together back when! I don't remember anything about your play though just that we played.

BUT, can you unpack the cabd is seeking approval from people? It seems you focused on me, but at the time you wrote this he'd only addressed me once.

(I didn't give any content btw! It's against my religion :p)

[Tammy]

So, Diamond Sentinel is there a particular reason you're not interacting with or questioning the people you suspect? Why just spit names in the ether?

[Tammy]

But can you respond to 849 Diamond?

[Tammy]

I'm planning to do some Jake metadiving tonight.

Heh I looked at a few this morning, but nothing more than a quick glance.

[Tammy]

Why does him asking me for feedback on the reads he expressed read horribly?

[Tammy]

You're right that's a horrible scum tell! About as bad as the "I'll pick back up at post #" scum tell.

Why can't it be him reading me by my reaction to his reads or him trying to gauge where my head it at to see if we're on the same page? Why can't it be two people working together?

The rest of the things you pointed out look like you're scum reading personality or play style rather than things that are actually scummy. And maybe you got fixated on the things you did because someone asked you about the group of us.

On the one hand, I kinda like it because sometimes people get squicked when they don't understand the friend dynamics and how people interact who've played a lot together and are friends in real life. On the other, I'm wondering if you realize you're reading personalities as scum rather than behavior.

@Diamond Sentinel

[Tammy]

It's begging for you to agree with them, or at the very least grant his reads merit. In my experience, it's been a horrible scum-tell, where a player asking for someone to validate their reads is just trying make them seem legitimate.

This wasn't asking for validation though? This was asking for feedback, as in "Do you agree or disagree with my reads?"
"

See, that's where you're wrong, buddy.

It's not just about what people say, but

why do they say it

? And specifically, why do they say it how they say it? Instead of saying "what do you think of my reads", why did they not say "what reads do you have on X, Y, and Z people?" The former has an inherent assertion that the reads have merit of their own, and it's a clever way to normalize someone's opinions.

PEdit: So a couple things.
I do know Cabd's personality, and it's not just personality that I'm reading. I've glanced at some of his recent games and this behavior is a bit off compared to those.
Additionally, at this point (this early in the game), working together should always be viewed with scrutiny. Even if they're metabuddies, any amount of immediate comradery should be viewed under the microscope.
And finally, I

have

looked at that possibility that he is trying to read your reaction, and I just don't find that credible. It doesn't hold much water. Anyone can react to someone's reads. It's, in my experience, one of the weaker types of ways to read people.

That's where asking the person in play is important!

[Tammy]

? How is that bias?

[Tammy]

? How is that bias?

You seem to be very close with Cabd as a person and your defense of him mostly consists of "it's just his playstyle" when I feel like the case against him goes beyond that

Yeah Cabd's a friend in real life, but that's not the issue. How is it any different than the reasoning you used to defend Diamond Sentinel earlier? When you know someone is getting attacked for their play style and not for something actually scummy don't you point it out?

What points of Diamond Sentinel's are not just play style or personality? And what part isn't weird narrative building?

(Note: I don't have a developed town read on Cabd, nor do I really have a scum read on Diamond Sentinel.)

[Tammy]

My main point of defense on DS earlier was that he was trying to make the game serious while people were still having fun nostalgia-ing and people were using that to attack him. Not his playstyle although that was a part.
I have not dug into DS's case but I think his point that Cabd is looking for approval and validation holds water. What would you call weird narrative building?

Same kinda thing, yeah.

I don't think Cabd was looking for approval or validation, certainly not from me, and I don't think he would regardless of his alignment. What I think was going on was him trying to drag me into the game. If he's town perhaps he wanted to see where my head was at and get a read on me. If he's scum he wanted to see where my head was at or look like he was trying to get a read on me.

The weird narrative building is the whole reasoning he came up with for why cabd was doing what he was doing while painting it in the worst possible light. I don't necessarily think it's coming from scum; it's entirely possible that it's a style of scumhunting that I neither agree with or understand really, nor am I confident in its accuracy. But I don't think it's unproductive to try to get him to dig a bit deeper in order to get a better read there.

Where do you see Cabd looking for approval and validation?

[Tammy]

rule of three

[Tammy]

What's
the
Rule of 3

The rule of three is a theory that when scum make a list of three people, they stick one of their partners in the list of three.

It's accuracy is hit or miss.

[Tammy]

You think Cabd's playstyle was specifically to get you involved?
The whole thing where he was so hesitant to reveal the reasoning for the Bell SR despite being convicted about it reeked for one. Also like I've said some of his humourous posting (like the one I quoted on pg 36) seems to be trying to look good.

No. I was positing the possible why's that I think was more plausible for why he asked me specifically what I thought of his reads. I don't think he was seeking approval or validation. I do think he was trying to get a read on me if he didn't have a read already.

I think the other things that DS pointed out were play style/personality.

[Tammy]

You think Cabd's playstyle was specifically to get you involved?
The whole thing where he was so hesitant to reveal the reasoning for the Bell SR despite being convicted about it reeked for one. Also like I've said some of his humourous posting (like the one I quoted on pg 36) seems to be trying to look good.

No. I was positing the possible why's that I think was more plausible for why he asked me specifically what I thought of his reads. I don't think he was seeking approval or validation. I do think he was trying to get a read on me if he didn't have a read already.

I think the other things that DS pointed out were play style/personality.

Oh I see you were referring to DS's case specifically
What do you think about my more general argument that Cabd is using his playstyle and humor to avoid posting more serious content?

That one is entirely possible. I'm not sure that I agree that's the case, but I can see where you're coming from. I liked the dream thing, though I want to go back and read it again. So, I like it, but it doesn't mean town to me. Ffery has a town read on him, and I'm taking that into consideration with my read because I believe* she can read him better than I can. But I've only seen him as scum once.

*This is also dependent upon me getting a town read on ffery that I feel really comfortable with.

[Tammy]

Seem very half-hearted (Nahdia admitted to this)

I kind of liked the admission of the half-hearted push.

Probably shouldn't but I did.

[Tammy]

I feel like I'm more paranoid of them because we're friends

[Tammy]

fakegod confirmed scum for posting vote counts!

[Tammy]

geeze cabd desperate for approval much?

[Tammy]

when I'm worried about how to make a town post

In the past when I've been worried about making a town post, I've metad myself in past town games and replicated previous posts or reactions I've had to try to look town.

I'm just chuckling because when I read what you wrote it reminded me of what I've done in the past and nacho yelling at me once to stop metaing myself to farm a town reaction when he was correctly scum reading me.

[Tammy]

okay it's late and almost page 10 which means my internal mafia clock says it's time to start making serious posts too

I don't wanna

Hi Tammy, I have expressed read(s), do you agree with those read(s) or no, and why?

It's srsbsns time!

okay what actual reads had been expressed at this point by cabd? I don't recall much serious reads being expressed by him

One day I will make it into ffery's top tier, that day will be nirvana and then I'll never play again

[Tammy]

I don't know where that quote came from :/

[Tammy]

Oh right. I was gonna answer that question but then I didn't want to traipse in the middle of a conversation I thought was happening.

[Tammy]

I played with Jake recently but I don't have much to say on him yet. He stuck to role playing. Mena, thought he wouldn't as scum when getting pressured but he kept it up even though he was mafia and I was a werewolf. But multiball does strange things. He got eliminated on replace in same day, though there was some hemming and hawwing(by me really).

(He did the vote count thing in that game upon replace in too.)

I don't really subscribe to meta tells of that sort, but I was trying to get a snap shot of the type of player he was and that kinda stuck out. Seems to get miselim'd pretty easily though too.

[Tammy]

One day I will make it into ffery's top tier, that day will be nirvana and then I'll never play again

You've been there before. I think you were the only player I really trusted in Tales of You by day 3.

Hmm I only remember that you were the only player I trusted that game though at some point I got paranoid I was wrong but I think I went back to trusting you.

[Tammy]

You should go back and answer it, though, tammy!

BUT the only read you had explicitly stated was midway bear. Ffery called herself your other town read and you didn't deny it so that was one.

my ego wanted to say me but that one was silly and I didn't state it because I don't think even you would know why I was town at that point or even this point probably.

[Tammy]

You should go back and answer it, though, tammy!

BUT the only read you had explicitly stated was midway bear. Ffery called herself your other town read and you didn't deny it so that was one.

my ego wanted to say me but that one was silly and I didn't state it because I don't think even you would know why I was town at that point or even this point probably.

My third one was, actually, indeed you! But you weren't supposed to figure it out that easily.

And I wanted to see who you'd theory craft the third to be to shore up my read on you. But then thread happened.

Heh

well I never really entirely trust the reads you give

But when you gave a read, I was like I bet one of those is me. I feel really good right now.

[Tammy]

tea leaves

[Tammy]

Cabd can you talk about your read on Syry? Do you actually suspect him or is that one of those weird things you do sometimes where you pretend to scumread someone you don't actually to catch people in a trap?

I feel like if ffery has him as town as she has him I shouldn't feel this hesitation and conflict.

Are your concerns real? Or am I just really crazy right now?

[Tammy]

Cabd can you talk about your read on Syry? Do you actually suspect him or is that one of those weird things you do sometimes where you pretend to scumread someone you don't actually to catch people in a trap?

I feel like if ffery has him as town as she has him I shouldn't feel this hesitation and conflict.

Are your concerns real? Or am I just really crazy right now?

Actually scratch this. I don't care. I'm gonna stop beating myself up for not having a concrete read right here when we're still in the infant stages of the game.

If he's town I'll figure it out eventually.

[Tammy]

Which read are you wondering about? You, Cabd, syry or just the whole?

This morning when I woke up at seven I was super optimistic and sure. In that moment I was sure you all were town.

Fell back asleep and woke up in a different mood and more uncertain than I was.

But he sum of it is that my town read of you is getting stronger. Cabd got kicked up a notch and is merrily skipping behind you. He has balloons but I don’t trust what’s in those balloons.

Syry is much the same as he was, which I know will cause you to start squinting at me but *shrug*. This morning I went through midsummer’s where syry was scum last, and well I want to go back through it again when I’m not feeling like I am right now.

[Tammy]

4. Confusion at this odd town bloc for, what I’ve seen, nearly non-existent reasons. I’ve yet to see a solid reason why Cabd’s behavior is town motivated, and I also fail to see that for Tammy and Syr, yet a fair few of my more confident town reads (specifically you, although that’s dropping faster than I’d like) proclaim that they are acting consistently with a town mentality.

Earlier you said that you're not good at asking questions. Last night I took a look at Cyberpunk, which we were both in, and you seem fine at asking questions? I know that not everything's going to be the same; I'm not myself. But what I noticed in that game was how direct you were with people where my overall impression is that you're talking a bit about people but not talking directly to them in the same way.

I was also going to comment on what seemed like a bit of a fixation with cabd, syry, ffery, and me, which were names that were given to you to talk about, and there you had your hands in a more variety of people. BUT I reread your iso this morning and my impression of what you were doing in that regard is not what you are actually doing, which just goes to show that I really need to get started on reading this game when I can focus on it and not while I'm trying to work. Anyway i want to leave this impression here to come back to if I still feel this way when I've reread.

BUT I wanted to ask you about this. When you say town bloc here are you just referring to the group of us town reading each other to varying degrees or do you think we're acting in some type of block?

[Tammy]

Cabd can you talk about your read on Syry? Do you actually suspect him or is that one of those weird things you do sometimes where you pretend to scumread someone you don't actually to catch people in a trap?

I feel like if ffery has him as town as she has him I shouldn't feel this hesitation and conflict.

Are your concerns real? Or am I just really crazy right now?

Actually scratch this. I don't care. I'm gonna stop beating myself up for not having a concrete read right here when we're still in the infant stages of the game.

If he's town I'll figure it out eventually.

I know you don't care, but I kind of feel the need to reply to this anyways.

This isn't a case of "One of those weird things"

I don't think what Syr has done is all that outside of his scumrange. I know FGO was like a jumbo box of wheaties right to his solar plexus. So I expect his confidence in his play writ large is better these days, not just about his townplay.

I quite frankly don't really care how ffery is reading or not reading him, and I want to read him by myself on my own merits. And right now it's not enough to put him in the tier list that some beacons of hope this game occupy.

I went back at looked at Mid-Scummer's Night's Dream yesterday a couple times, and then looked at my own iso that game to see what I said about him in thread because my memory of it is that I had a generic "he looks fine?" read to him (which by the way I really need to pay attention to; do you know how many of my eh they look fine? reads end up being scum?) Anyway, I didn't give a read on him, so that is no help to me. What I noticed is that he has a way better scum game that what I remembered him having BUT his aggro? there reads a bit off. It's a bit more pointed in that he looks to be playing the part of a good little townie trying to get his very for certain scum reads lynched and he threw his vote around quite a bunch.

There was a part of our interaction here that I thought I was being manipulated a little, but I think that was a batshit feeling of mine that's due to a heightened sense of concern from that when dealing with a friend in a mafia game and a bit of projection of the manipulation I've done to friends when scum in a mafia game. Rereading his scum iso in that game; that is just not his style, so that shadow I was feeling was just dumb.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it as he's probably town status that as of this moment I won't bet the game on. But I'm also not going to worry about it because he's also probably not scum, and I need to turn my mind elsewhere.

[Tammy]

I've changed a lot in 3 years personally. I'm not remotely the same person I was then (definitely for the better). But aside from that, I was also very familiar with those players. I know 3 people on this playerlist (well 4 if you count Nahdia but they aren't posting much).

I genuinely think that you guys are acting as a bloc of sorts mainly out of some very odd meta-buddying and I'm not a huge fan of that remotely.

I have changed a lot since then too, and I definitely don't expect you to behave the same way. I just noticed the talking to people more instead of about them all the time and it felt notable.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by meta-buddying, but I think what is happening here is a similar sort of behavior that you had in cyberpunk. You knew those people, you knew what type of players they were and you were poking at them. Your steps to the dance are just different. Anyway I don't want to belabor this point because it's something that confuses and bothers people a lot in games when this happens (not just with us, I've seen this with any group) and I don't really think it will be a big issue moving forward as the game starts progressing and conversations and the like start branching out.

[Tammy]

tammy i wish you had more thoughts on this game and not on old games

Me too!

dammit we crossposted and then my browser went out and I lost my post.

It wasn't anything great, but it is apropos to this post so I'll just rewrite it as a reply.

I've got some free time today so I'll actually be able to read this game mostly undistracted and not while also trying to work. Before my actual read, I've got working town reads on midwaybear, ffery, cabd, sryry. I don't even know why on midwaybear though; I just remember liking this posts.

I was looking at the playerlist last night and I realized that I don't actually have active suspicions on anyone*. Some pings here and there which has me wondering if it's setup related or if scum are in the people that I just haven't seen posting much? I don't know; hopefully a reread fixes that.

Although! If you're vote on me was serious, it's wrong, but I think you'll realize that once I have some thoughts on the game after actually reading it. I hope. I hope I have thoughts.

[Tammy]

One of the reasons why I like anon games is I get to just read the posts in the thread without going gee I wonder if I'm town/scum reading this person because of their play style rather than their alignment. Let me go check.

[Tammy]

How does an anonymous game prevent you from wondering that? All it does is prevent you from figuring it out

Exactly! I learned how to play mafia through anon games; my homesite rip was basically 99% anon. You can realize who some people are, but you can always be wrong, so there's a factor too.

But as you're playing and you're wondering that, there's nothing you can do about it. So you get to just focus on the game. I am a super easily distracted person, so having the capability to check means I do go check and my attention gets diverted and bleh.

[Tammy]

I'm not sure if you really believed in Tammy being self conscious, but now I see my man Diamond also making similar accusations so idk

you think I... didn't believe it?

I latched onto the initial post I pointed out (the one which replied was just a joke) because that's 100% out of my own scum playbook. The kind of post I basically would never make as town but am pretty sure I have in fact made as scum. That doesn't mean it's the same for Tammy, but in my own self-reflection I find I make that kind of post because when I'm worried about how to make a town post, the obvious (too-obvious, therefore has to be presented as a joke) solution is to literally copy the post of a town player. So I started looking for more evidence of that kind of self-consciousness and found the things I pointed out from there.

mmm this isn't a good look

VOTE: fferyllt

this isn't a good look

VOTE: Nahdia

Nahdia did you pick up on this copying of your post? Did it evoke the same concern that scum was copying the post of a town player to look town?

[Tammy]

or this?

mmm this isn't a good look

VOTE: fferyllt

this isn't a good look

VOTE: Nahdia

this isn't a good look

VOTE: Petapan

[Tammy]

Ooh a pagetop.

Anyways, I'm mostly just gonna go to the backline until Nahdia posts more. I can read them fairly well.

What are your thoughts on the posts that Nahdia has made so far?

[Tammy]

VOTE: Bell

Woke up because my subconscious wanted this before I drift back off. Something is wrong here.

Dream crumb lol

I just point this out because there was a part of me that was a bit suspicious of the dream explanation, which I know is silly. But scum have claimed dreams before and people tend to think those are little indicators that someone is town, and I was like is Cabd just planting this in his iso to look town. It's partially silly because nobody is going to follow him on a dream, so if Cabd scum really wants to get Bell lynched he's going to have to do something more than a dream.

Anyway with this and the post where he says he woke up and still felt good about the vote make this feel like it was something real, and my silly thoughts were silly.

[Tammy]

Oh.

(I helped review that game? Spectated? Didn't know it was based on a dream. lol)

[Tammy]

I did not laugh

He voted me

He gets no laugh

[Tammy]

Pick back up at 21 later

So far my reads haven't actually changed. Still have midwaybear, ffery, syry and cabd as varying town reads. If I could do tiers without my brain literally melting down into syrup for my waffles I'd maybe have cabd the lowest but even typing that out doesn't feel right. I do remember why I was town reading midwaybear though! And I agree with my past self that it's a bit tonal, but the engagement and the tonal response to the suspicion or votes he's got is far above the FGO "wasn't me" vibe he gave.

Taylor Swift half feels like she's playing this game with fortune cookies. Crack open a cookie, post whatever it says inside as a response to something.

Like cakez, alisae, taylor, and bell less than I remember liking them in the moment.

Like Diamond Sentinel more actually. Not an actual town read, just like them more.

Cabd - I think I understood your Andrius comment. This doesn't really mean anything but just patting myself on the back if I was able to understand something a bit coded.

[Tammy]

well the process was raelizing i don't actually remember anything about how you play, which made me realize i didn't remember anything you've done this game, which led me to read back on you and realize i don't townread you and i'm not sure why anyone does. i didn't have any serious intentions of attempting to wagon you (i was going giving you and diamondsentinel the "first game off a hiatus" d1 pass regardless of my read), but felt the need to express that read in a visible fashion

I actually expected you to scum read or not town read my early game. I'm not much of an early game solver; I used to try to be but it really didn't fit me, so I settled back into floating through the early game in a more observational way because it's more me. I imagine the reason the people are town reading me has more to do with my scum game and its deficiencies than I'm objectively town right now. (It's sad, but I was out of my scum range on like page 5, for reasons even the people here who know me might not know.) That doesn't matter though because hopefully my town mojo is not completely lost and it'll be cool soon enough.

[Tammy]

Not about me.

I'm not going to stop trying to figure out your alignment and if your arguments that sound wrong are in fact wrong because you say it's a bad look.

Did it not occur to you that as I was rereadng the game, and seeing people copying other people's posts, one that was a direct copy of your own, that I questioned how much you believe the argument you made in the first place? We do still play mafia by asking people questions to see if they believe their arguments or if they're selective scum hunting, right? I realize site meta has changed. Has it changed that much?

[Tammy]

scum catchup post

@ bell

[Tammy]

Not about me.

I'm not going to stop trying to figure out your alignment and if your arguments that sound wrong are in fact wrong because you say it's a bad look.

Did it not occur to you that as I was rereadng the game, and seeing people copying other people's posts, one that was a direct copy of your own, that I questioned how much you believe the argument you made in the first place? We do still play mafia by asking people questions to see if they believe their arguments or if they're selective scum hunting, right? I realize site meta has changed. Has it changed that much?

we still do that. but you're searching for contradictions where there aren't any.

How do I know that if I don't ask?

I probably wouldn't have brought it up except for the post where peta voted you and copied you that made me think about it and I wondered.

FTR I don't think contradictions are scummy in and of themselves anyway.

[Tammy]

Cabd can you talk about your read on Syry? Do you actually suspect him or is that one of those weird things you do sometimes where you pretend to scumread someone you don't actually to catch people in a trap?

I feel like if ffery has him as town as she has him I shouldn't feel this hesitation and conflict.

Are your concerns real? Or am I just really crazy right now?

Bell - I'm not sure what your question was to this post. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question or maybe you misinterpreted mine.

I'm not saying that anyone would have him as town because ffery told them to. I'm saying that if ffery is town reading syry as strongly as she is then I shouldn't be having this much trouble reading him if he's town.

[Tammy]

Bell - On your question why I was beating myself up. I was beating myself up because I thought I should have a read by that point that quite frankly it doesn't matter that I didn't have as early as I had it.

I'm also a crazy person.

Which read are you wondering about? You, Cabd, syry or just the whole?

This morning when I woke up at seven I was super optimistic and sure. In that moment I was sure you all were town.

Fell back asleep and woke up in a different mood and more uncertain than I was.

But he sum of it is that my town read of you is getting stronger. Cabd got kicked up a notch and is merrily skipping behind you. He has balloons but I don’t trust what’s in those balloons.

Syry is much the same as he was, which I know will cause you to start squinting at me but *shrug*. This morning I went through midsummer’s where syry was scum last, and well I want to go back through it again when I’m not feeling like I am right now.

Was this the post that your asking where the emotion came from? I don't see any emotion in here. I was in a bad mood yesterday morning, but I don't think the post was emotional?

I am an emotional person though so sometimes emotions bleed into my posts, but this is an odd one to ask about. Did you mean another post?

[Tammy]

Gimme the name of a scumbuddy at least

if i had any i'd be bussing them

scum catchup post

@ bell

looool that my immediate thought was "midwaybear as archer"

At least you can tell what the person is responding to with the quote stripes!

[Tammy]

Also, Tammy crushed a town ALT I had for like 3 games, forever ago and the wound never healed. Collage posting explains some of the issue, but I think she might be really good at putting them together in a way that Lancer didn't.

I don’t understand?

[Tammy]

What Alisae game are you referring to? Flying scumsman? If so I don't remember much of that game, I was very confused for most of it

Yeah, that game.

[Tammy]

Syry you wanna know what I love about you? You read a post and go boom town guys or yeah boom scum here it is.

There’s no gee I don’t know let me chew my nails and check out the seating arrangements on this fence.

I envy that.

[Tammy]

#Syrana: Archer was the first person to call him townie for that and I didn't think he was townie for that. He also said he was mimicking (or maybe that was a joke?* Invitation to clarify) someone else's play at the time.
Self narration is a scum tell I used since I got back with varying accuracy.

@Tammy, Forever ago I played a newbie game with you and I lost. The alt was named Knell. I thought Lancer was scum in part because I felt he was borrowing the reasoning of town and applying it poorly to current circumstances. But I don't remember (and I have a fair memory for this) getting that feel from you when I lost.

Intrigued! I haven’t played in that many newbie games. I hate pushing newbies as scum; it causes me a lot of angst. I don’t follow what the lancer bit refers to though. I wasn’t lancer.

[Tammy]

There haven’t been that many times I’ve seen town make a catch-up post like that. The format itself whether it’s by player or page automatically pings me. It’s made worse when there are so many unnecessary comments or comments that don’t add anything, which makes it look like padding.

[Tammy]

But does he have good dreams?

[Tammy]

Jake - Are you and Gamma Emerald friends or have you played together before?

Gamma can answer that question too.

[Tammy]

my last game with Tammy she felt a lot more "actively town"

I was scum in our last game together

[Tammy]

2020 where wall offs have become odd bulleted number offs. A downgrade.

I don't really understand what bell is doing this game if he's town.

[Tammy]

I don't think gamma-scum makes 979 in the main thread if he can make it in the scum PT.

This post? Why not?

nah because the bear's town

Spoiler: People Town Reading Archer Masonry PT

Hi!

Spoiler: People Town Reading Archer Masonry PT

Pop Quiz, who are my other town reads and why?

Spoiler:

Me. ~reasons~

Did you and Syr end up in a black hole? Or are you moon gazing with blue balls?

This might just be a general in-joke but I thought of Advance Wars when I saw this

I kinda dig the RP it adds vibes

Not really. It just gives Pooky something to hide behind while he’s definitely capable of more. A successful town has everyone engaged and focused, so I think Pooky should just stop if he is town.

ah yes the engaged and focus townie police are here to make sure everyone is focused and on-task. excellent. its page 11 now, definitely time to start super tryharding, because the more you try the better you play.

"oh look at me I'm such a towny stick-in-the-mud!"
It seems more like you're objecting to the roleplay for optics than for actually disliking it.

[Tammy]

[Tammy]

2020 where wall offs have become odd bulleted number offs. A downgrade.

I don't really understand what bell is doing this game if he's town.

Well I did just explain my thought process and you didn't read that so.

Where in 2020 are the walls offs?

I'm pretty sure I've read all your posts?

[Tammy]

Have you guys ever been to a party where people are just talking and having a great time and you can't understand what they're saying or get a word in edgewise so you just smile awkwardly and end up drinking way too much because the only person who will talk to you is the bartender? I've been to lots of parties like that but I'm an alcoholic so I enjoy them tremendously.

I'm sorry you feel this way!

I'd be happy to talk to you or Eliza though. Except right now, sorry, I took more than one night time sleep aid in an attempt to get a full night's sleep tonight.

Do you have any reads you feel super strongly or really conflicted about?

Or more important. What is your favorite drink?

[Tammy]

I have a bad emotional habit of expressing my real thoughts and then expecting people to interpret them correctly when Mafia has regularly shown me that's the opposite of the case.

You've read it. You don't know what I'm doing, but I explained what I'm doing. So you either don't know whether to believe me or already know.

I'll give a better? response to this tomorrow. Sleep is calling. I hope.

I guess a better post I could have made was that I don't understand what you're doing. Anyway tomorrow.

[Tammy]

I have a bad emotional habit of expressing my real thoughts and then expecting people to interpret them correctly when Mafia has regularly shown me that's the opposite of the case.

You've read it. You don't know what I'm doing, but I explained what I'm doing. So you either don't know whether to believe me or already know.

I'll give a better? response to this tomorrow. Sleep is calling. I hope.

I guess a better post I could have made was that I don't understand what you're doing. Anyway tomorrow.

I’m confused by you.

That encapsulates how I’m feeling about you.

Last night I legit looked up if jester’s were third party and chastised myself the whole time because I felt dumb doing it.

You feel off, you don’t feel like you’re looking at the game in a town way even though you have some posts here and there that do feel town, that whole catch up post felt like it comes from scum, the walls are closing in on you and you seem like you can’t help yourself but make them close in faster, which feels weird. And at the same time you don’t feel like you’re coming from a fully informed POV either.

So when I said I didn’t know what you were doing, it’s not that I didn’t read your words, it’s because I’m completely confused by you.

[Tammy]

I’m fine.

[Tammy]

my Concern is if there are multiple traitors, and this morning I wondered if bell is a second one.

We don’t know anything about how the traitor operates here, but if they are not totally informed of each other but know their existence, then every one here is actually scumhunting which gives this the sense of a multiball game. When I said maybe our issues with finding true scum reads might be setup related it was because I was pondering this issue.

[Tammy]

is all that explicitly outlined in the op of the neighbourhood or how much of that is deduction

Mod confirmed in the neighborhood

[Tammy]

Bell - I dodged your question for why I was beating myself up. This is why. He expressed some frustration about not being trusted by some of the people who knew him best. I felt like shit about that. Then I got freaked out that he was trying to manipulate me and I got more paranoid. Then I was like fuck it it’s a mafia game, I’m not gonna feel bad for not being sure.

[Tammy]

my Concern is if there are multiple traitors, and this morning I wondered if bell is a second one.

We don’t know anything about how the traitor operates here, but if they are not totally informed of each other but know their existence, then every one here is actually scumhunting which gives this the sense of a multiball game. When I said maybe our issues with finding true scum reads might be setup related it was because I was pondering this issue.

what specifically makes you think traitor rather than just scum for bell? was this something that was discussed in the pigsty or your own thoughts?

No, it’s not in the neighborhood. I wondered this this morning while I’ve tried to make sense of bell and thought he didn’t seem town or really scum either.

My homesite rip used traitors in almost every game. They flipped town, so it was a bit different than here, it sometimes the person playing the traitor just didn’t know how to behave. When I thought about this possibility for bellthis morning; I was remembering one of the last games at my homesite where Plotinus was the traitor. I had a scum read early but as the game went on I realized their actions made no sense for scum or town and that they were more likely the traitor.

Which led me to wonder seriously if there was more than one.

[Tammy]

Townblock application line is here in my circular file.. or firing squad?

If you're town, I really need to know it within 4 pages. I'm deathly afraid how things might go otherwise.

otherwise he will probably betray you!

This post raised the fuck out of my hackles. I think Tayl0r was trying to signal to the scum team.

are the mechanics of the traitor specified or implied at all? if the word traitor is used in the PT is it capitalized? what was the purpose of all that fakegod-spec earlier about traitors?

The word is capitalized and the color is brown (I think, purple skin). Syr asked Fakegod about what kind of traitor this is and Fakegod declined to tell us!

He provided a hyper link to traitor wiki in the neighborhood which alters its color I think

[Tammy]

I don’t particularly like all the vote’s raining down on Taylor.

But then again I’m the paranoid one in our dethy

[Tammy]

Townblock application line is here in my circular file.. or firing squad?

If you're town, I really need to know it within 4 pages. I'm deathly afraid how things might go otherwise.

otherwise he will probably betray you!

This post raised the fuck out of my hackles. I think Tayl0r was trying to signal to the scum team.

Don't you dare steal my fucking thunder,

I

brought this to the attention of the Ya-Ya sisterhood of the traveling pants

I was the first one to do meta on jake and you got credit for that so nyah

You were helpful and shared though!

[Tammy]

Townblock application line is here in my circular file.. or firing squad?

If you're town, I really need to know it within 4 pages. I'm deathly afraid how things might go otherwise.

otherwise he will probably betray you!

This post raised the fuck out of my hackles. I think Tayl0r was trying to signal to the scum team.

are the mechanics of the traitor specified or implied at all? if the word traitor is used in the PT is it capitalized? what was the purpose of all that fakegod-spec earlier about traitors?

Jake mentioned the possible existence of a traitor when he thought syry was signaling Cabd I believe. Cabd said that mod meta meant fakegod didn’t use or like traitors, and we asked why and then dropped it.

[Tammy]

I don’t particularly like all the vote’s raining down on Taylor.

But then again I’m the paranoid one in our dethy

i mean it's not like it's terribly AI either way, right?

That’s why I don’t like it I think.

I’m not sure why I felt such dread seeing all the votes come in as they did.

I don’t want the day to end early, I know that for sure.

I don’t like that it cut off some of the communication here even though I signed on to out the dethy. I guess I thought more people would react like bulge and try to process.

I really don’t want to deal with what is going to happen inside my brain if tsyl0r comes back innocent. Because I’ve been a bit hamstrung hear because is it really so easy it’s between tay0r or Jake, two of the scummiest people in the thread? That would be awesome, but I have trust issues.

If bell is scum then we’ve derailed that and again if tayl0r comes back innocent, this is gonna fuck with my head big time.

[Tammy]

I don’t particularly like all the vote’s raining down on Taylor.

But then again I’m the paranoid one in our dethy

What do you think would be a better reaction?

I don’t know.

Not this automatic reaction.

[Tammy]

Jake

I do want this question answred

[Tammy]

Jake - Are you and Gamma Emerald friends or have you played together before?

Gamma can answer that question too.

That was weird. This question

[Tammy]

Did everyone just ignore 1606? That is very weird

i have thoughts that i'm not really sure i can say and there is a nightmare scenario in my mind but i can't really do anything about it

My nightmare scenario is that the traitor is in ffery/syry and we’ll spend the next several days willing down the dethy until there’s a near perfect victory.

If you want to know what’s been occupying the depths of my mind and focus this game.

[Tammy]

Tammy sorry if you've gone more in-depth somewhere already, but im wondering about your bell placement. from what I remember reading youve spent far more time elaborating on why bell is not town than why he is not full informed scum and I'm not sure I understand what's stopping you from scumbinning him. how set are you on the double traitor theory, or were you just wanting to put your thoughts out?

I literally just thought about a double traitor theory this morning when I was trying to figure out what the fork he’s doing here. (Although there was some talk in the neighborhood about possible setups Nd multiple deaths, but we decided against those.

Yesterday I wondered if the scum team knew of the existence of a traitor and thought that it possible everyone was searching for something. I was thinking about the setup because we have 17 players which would typically mean 4 scum but three scum plus one traitor doesn’t feel right, so this morning I thought maybe two?

I just don’t understand what bell is doing here if he’s town or scum.

[Tammy]

And I want Jake or gamma to answer the question about whether or not they know each other

[Tammy]

Oh bulge my first thought last night was that bell was a jester, but that’s third party and I’m dumb

[Tammy]

Looks like jake and gamma have played several games together so nvm

[Tammy]

I'm sorry you feel this way!

I'd be happy to talk to you or Eliza though. Except right now, sorry, I took more than one night time sleep aid in an attempt to get a full night's sleep tonight.

Do you have any reads you feel super strongly or really conflicted about?

Or more important. What is your favorite drink?

I TR you and would be shocked if you were scum. You're like the cool girl at the dance that everyone seems to be on a first name basis with, you know you're popular but you don't put up any airs. It feels refreshing to talk to you.

My favorite drink hmm.

Probably 10 Yr Talisker. It tastes like being hit by an ocean wave, it's strong and unapologetic, makes me remember happier times when I was younger, dumber and less jaded about life.

Why do you TR me that much? I don’t think most people are having that easy of a time reading me.

I had to look up what Talisker was lol. My tastes are far more pedestrian than that, but I did have a couple bottles of glennfiditch? I enjoyed a few years ago.

[Tammy]

Ffery - which post did you think suggested Jake didn’t know how traitors worked?

[Tammy]

damn.

You made me look back at that post, and I misinterpreted it initially. It's #78 in the neighborhood.

So, Jake didn't appear naive about how traitors work.

One of these nights I'm going to get some serious sleep.

That’s okay I just misread a bell post as him saying 4 scum in the neighborhood and was confused.

I was staring at jakes iso trying to figure out what I’d missed.

[Tammy]

Tammy sorry if you've gone more in-depth somewhere already, but im wondering about your bell placement. from what I remember reading youve spent far more time elaborating on why bell is not town than why he is not full informed scum and I'm not sure I understand what's stopping you from scumbinning him. how set are you on the double traitor theory, or were you just wanting to put your thoughts out?

I literally just thought about a double traitor theory this morning when I was trying to figure out what the fork he’s doing here. (Although there was some talk in the neighborhood about possible setups Nd multiple deaths, but we decided against those.

Yesterday I wondered if the scum team knew of the existence of a traitor and thought that it possible everyone was searching for something. I was thinking about the setup because we have 17 players which would typically mean 4 scum but three scum plus one traitor doesn’t feel right, so this morning I thought maybe two?

I just don’t understand what bell is doing here if he’s town or scum.

i actually did a dive on fakegod large themes to estimate how many scum in a game and surprisingly 3 out of 17 is the typical number, BUT those are typically open or semi-open setups with either some specialized wincon, or extra killing power on the mafia side. this one is full closed (a rarity!) and so there's no secret wincon, 3 groupscum + a traitor would make sense imo

Would that also make sense though with a dethy?

If the dethy resolves day one we’re looking at 4 masons. It’s unlikely we’ll be able to solve our sanities, but still 4 confirmed town seems harsh with just three full scum.

[Tammy]

Nahdia - do you have a read on diamond sentinel?

[Tammy]

I will literally never get anything done this game if I answer every question posed to me.

Why wouldn’t you answer the questions of the person you proposed a townbloc too thoigh?

[Tammy]

Jake

After that my head explodes.

[Tammy]

Jake

After that my head explodes.

Does that mean I don't have to answer your questions?

I was trying to figure out why you called Gamma a friend in your first post, and then later why said you for everyone to have a good morning but for gamma to have a great morning.

[Tammy]

wtf

[Tammy]

I do not think we were unfair to her to get the good luck with the 2012 cohort bit.

[Tammy]

Why do you TR me that much? I don’t think most people are having that easy of a time reading me.

I had to look up what Talisker was lol. My tastes are far more pedestrian than that, but I did have a couple bottles of glennfiditch? I enjoyed a few years ago.

I liked the tonal resonance of your earlier posts and I felt you had a level of empathy for me in the previous post that is rather generous and difficult for a scum to fake.

Ah

I just learned what the pooky promise is!

[Tammy]

biting my nails it was nice someone else pulled the plug

[Tammy]

I thought you were trying to play hangman

[Tammy]

We are told by the moderator that our neighborhood contains 4 town cops, sanity unknown, with one traitor tolecop, and the traitor was hyperlinked to the wiki definition of traitor, so she was not a goon.

Making dinner be back later

[Tammy]

Syry my fallen friend, May I be as badass in pursuit of your vengeance

[Tammy]

Peta - talk about your gamma townread?

[Tammy]

Can you?

Sorry shorthand don’t mean to be rude.

[Tammy]

Spending time with my other half. Will be here tomorrow or later if he passes out. (If I come back later, I've been drinking and I don't promise to make any more sense than bell has this game )

[Tammy]

Normal traitors are told their teammates and lose if they're the last scum alive

If this is the case, then Taylor's thing about Diamond Sentinel being town at a weird time when nobody was calling him scum might be a thing.

[Tammy]

VOTE: Nahdia

I'm not liking the little bit I've seen today, and I

really

don't like the hard lurk yesterday. I need something to reassure me about this slot, and I'm not getting it.

But it didn't bother you yesterday?

[Tammy]

Nahdia doesn't seem like the type of person to intentionally do traditionally scummy stuff to get townread as scum.

Certainly not.

I'm not sure if you really believed in Tammy being self conscious, but now I see my man Diamond also making similar accusations so idk

you think I... didn't believe it?

I latched onto the initial post I pointed out (the one which replied was just a joke) because that's 100% out of my own scum playbook. The kind of post I basically would never make as town but am pretty sure I have in fact made as scum. That doesn't mean it's the same for Tammy, but in my own self-reflection I find I make that kind of post because when I'm worried about how to make a town post, the obvious (too-obvious, therefore has to be presented as a joke) solution is to literally copy the post of a town player. So I started looking for more evidence of that kind of self-consciousness and found the things I pointed out from there.

These 2 quotes read horribly. Talking about ones town game (or how to make a "town" post) is in my experience essentially universally a scum trait. It's really the strongest tell I can see.

there's a reasonable chance at least one of the 2012 circlejerk is scum and im hoping they just sort themselves out so i dont have to

Half-heartedly calling shade on a group without hitting on it at all later. Really hate this.

feels a little big brain to me. i can see the logic as to why maybe town shouldn't, but i dont agree it means town

wouldn't

do it.

not to be rude i don't need you backing me up in this argument and i dunno why it needs your comment over anything else

not to be rude but i don't need your permission to respond to posts in this thread

This entire back and forth with peta looks awful for both, but 100000% worse on Nahdia than peta. I'm not unconvinced it's scum theater.

i'll call pooky town too even though that's one more townread than i need.

more words, man!

feels legit

his EoD looks bad to me.

VOTE: pookythemagicalbear

i thought the opposite but i'm willing to hear you out

he defends taylor, then wont elaborate, then just questions her without any followup, and never actually votes.

Potentially misrepping how traitors work, normally?

Traitors, as defined by the wiki, are mafia who know who the other mafia are, but are unknown to the mafia. My read on Pooky notwithstanding, I

really

don't like this misrep.

But how come yesterday when I asked you about Nadia and how you felt about them, your response was this?

I get nothing from them. The posts exist, technically, but they don't say much. In this instance, I don't particularly see it as AI but that might change. But they've barely interacted with people who are actually playing the game (they've got a bit with midway and peta), so there's not much there.

[Tammy]

There is nothing wrong with fence sitting!

Some of my best reads come from camping out atop a comfy fence post.

[Tammy]

Peta - talk about your gamma townread?

Can you?

Sorry shorthand don’t mean to be rude.

had been thinking the way he responded to me initially, the way he back off nahdia more likely town. later posts also seem to show a decent amount of scumhunting. like that he goes so far as to put bell ahead of himself in the last line of 1792 even if i'm not gonna follow the read, shows some depth of thought. on a reread of iso not as strong as i thought, some of earlier posts are still somewhat iffy but still probaby townlean over the players i have in the poe

thanks!

I spent some time on 1792 last night, and I came up empty on what I thought it meant for either of them :/

[Tammy]

My style is one that tries to obv town out the gate because I don’t do well with pressure.
Being harder to understand is in part because I don’t feel the need to be super clear.

I suppose whether pooky or i’m clear depends on whether the scum knew there was a traitor or not.

Why would you ever not want to be clear?

Don't be the Taylor's of this world.

[Tammy]

Hmm. Indeed, I don't care for those posts. I look at it in more depth in a bit, and I might be inclined to sheep you there.

What don't you like about those posts?

[Tammy]

I’m talking about midwaybear and jake you goof lol.

probably would be helpful if you quoted who you're talking about or referenced them in some way; your entire game feels like one big huge nonsequitor.

(I've decided you've taken massive amounts of drugs this week.)

[Tammy]

im only here because I've been socially isolated for the last 7 months and I'm very lonely

[Tammy]

Tammy
are you telling me
that Diamond is sus?

I don't know!

Maybe?

Trying to figure that out.

[Tammy]

My avatar is not facing the post :/

[Tammy]

I've had diamond as a lower tier townish read based on a few reactions and interactions with peta? and ffery? I think. However, I don't like the weird focus he had on me, ffery, cabd, and syry after midway bear asked about his read on us. If he's scum, he might have used a town's suggestion to focus there though he did branch out to the rest of the game. What I don't like today is how he's acting like nahdia is soooo super scummy. A) I don't like the suggestion that someone is lying about real life issues as it didn't seem like a lie and they can be scum regardless, but B) and this is more important yesterday I asked about his read on nahdia and he claimed there wasn't enough to go on but today he pulls up their posting from yesterday to make a case against them which just feels convenient

My only hesitation is that he has some weird beliefs in behavior and content so I'm not sure if we're in a world where diamond sentinel is just being his weird outtake self or if he's actually scum.

[Tammy]

shit
gotta kill tammy
her avatar isn't facing the post

but I do have dragons at my feet and I'm blowing kisses at stars? or something which just shows I'm really innocent and magical though

[Tammy]

i feel socially isolated

[Tammy]

However, I don't like the weird focus he had on me, ffery, cabd, and syry after midway bear asked about his read on us. If he's scum, he might have used a town's suggestion to focus there though he did branch out to the rest of the game.

Do you think this could be distancing to make the group of people look better?

I'm not sure i follow?

For a while it felt like he was just focusing on us, that group of four, and it kind of felt like an excuse? Something to focus on. But when I reread he did talk about more than the few of us, so my initial impression was off. I just found it odd that he took that suggestion and kept circling back to us.

[Tammy]

i'm sorry!

[Tammy]

My question on Diamond Sentinel is that he's kinda a superficial reader in general. The push on Jake wasn't great, but did he believe it? I mean you look at things like 1953 and it's an example of the black and white view he has of how people behave as alignments.

I'm just having trouble parsing the focus on us yesterday when it felt like it was fed to him by midwaybear, and then him claiming nahdia hadn't made enough posts to be read by yesterday when I asked, but today his case is based on Nadia's posts from yesterday as if they're a smoking gun.

AND if he's town, he focused on us yesterday which got shot down once the dethy was outed and he just took a wider view of other posts.

I'm not sure which world I'm living in right now.

[Tammy]

is it weird that I just feel like
very sad and lonely
when i see that
cuz holy shit
im sad and lonely

I think we're all kinda sad and lonely these days

[Tammy]

I kinda thought that nahdia's lack of knowledge on the end of day felt somewhat genuine?

[Tammy]

I wish bulge's only real game posts weren't on verifying dethy stuff.

I super appreciated the more methodical way he approached the outing yesterday, but I'd like to see something more that just verifying that what we've said is agreed upon by all of us.

[Tammy]

him claiming nahdia hadn't made enough posts to be read by yesterday when I asked, but today his case is based on Nadia's posts from yesterday as if they're a smoking gun.

RED FLAG
RED FLAG

yeah it's super weird!

I should probably let myself pass out here soon if I want to be a productive member of society

grade shit

tomorrow

[Tammy]

I don't have a read on bulge

my read on him is that I liked how he approached the outing of the dethy yesterday but it's totally null without anything else

[Tammy]

actually tbf
it COULD be possible that because he just had no other reads so when he needed to find another scumread he did read nahdia's d2 posts, thought they were scummy, then opened up the ISO to try to find things to prove his read.

yep so which world are we living in is the question

[Tammy]

I came into today having diamond sentinel as a very low level town read and nahdia a scum read and they've both kinda flipped spots

sorta

I get to kinda fence sit and digest reads and take my time and this feels good.

[Tammy]

yeah that just feels like a dirty accusation really

[Tammy]

What a day to have a hang over!

I have skimmed enough to have seen the claims, need to actually read today’s posts though. No thoughts yet!

Hanging out with my sister online soon, so should be back for real after that unless I pass out.

[Tammy]

I made town traitor a named VT

Yeah this is what I was trying to get at lol. Not saying I am a VT though...

my point was more that pooky was fence-sitting that entire event.

Why is that scummy?

(Was he the only one?)

[Tammy]

Also, do you have ANY IDEA how badly you freaked Tammy out with the 167 reference, given we knew there was a traitor in the dethy?

Thanks f(r)iend.

i really needed sleep the day i mapped that scenario out in my head too!

[Tammy]

I've been seeing some ties between tay and tammy in more recent posts, what's up with that

So I was retreading my own posts to pick up where I left off and saw this
safe to say I understand what this was about now

This is one of the posts that felt like you knew what was going on currently but pretending to be behind.

i'm not sure what you were asking about there, but this was your last post in the day but that last post is several pages before the outing of the dethy.

i couldn't really understand why you would be pretending to not know though because your vote was already on taylor.

[Tammy]

Alisae and me are Lover-Doctor-Masons.

We protected Tammy last night.

The thing about asking for a private notes PT neighborhood was our crumb. :3

<3

(Was this an outguess the scum team protect? Protect the one that had their shit together the least in case they shoot there because they're the least likely to be protected ?)

[Tammy]

yeah I'm not 100% accurate who is
but I was right about Taylor and now it's looking likely Nahdia is scum for similar reasons

is nahdia trying to sow paranoia?

[Tammy]

But like. My free floating though is that this game is a 15 player setup and so 3/1/11 is the setup.

Mason lover is just a hydra that rngesus rolls random heads for. And the game setup was balanced around that fact.

This is how i was thinking about this last night. Dethy is swingy because it seems just as likely the dethy could eat itself and take up several miselims with a different rand than with this one. And who knows if we'll have one correct solve before we're dead.

[Tammy]

Are you current cakez?

[Tammy]

I'm not as confident that cakez is town as some others are. i liked how comfortable cakez felt early on, didn't like his mini-attack on ffery calling her early reads proto-reads, and liked the push on Tayl0r. Syry pushed back on my doubt about cakez because he thought that his excitement on getting the traitor role cop lynched was real and he didn't think he'd be that jazzed about it.

And he's not wrong in that assessment, i'm just. in a world where i were scum and knew a traitor existed, and Taylor came out playing the way she was and looked to be a danger to her team with how she was playing, i might bus that shit and be happy about it too. And some people as scum can only get excited about a lynch when they're bussing a partner.

i'm not saying that's the world we live in. i'm not like omg cakez is such scum; i just don't feel as comfortable at town reading him as strongly as some others are.

(my shift key is now working intermittently :/)

[Tammy]

No pressure but if we get it wrong this is who gets to carry the game~

Did we solve the game yet?

don't worry he's being WAY more proactive in the hood.

[Tammy]

yeah I'm not 100% accurate who is
but I was right about Taylor and now it's looking likely Nahdia is scum for similar reasons

is nahdia trying to sow paranoia?

I meant more generally, not that specific post assessment.

Are you current cakez?

What do you mean?

cabd has another claim, did you see it?

[Tammy]

you did miss the part where I pointed out that the last game where I felt more "actively town" than this I was scum.

Don't know what you're pointing out there.

[Tammy]

but really I thought it was that he seemed kinda haha about it but then also commented about it reeking of scum catchups he used to do.

[Tammy]

I have a lot of shit going on and I don't read as closely as I should. This is established yes.
Like I've said before, I scum slipped as town once.

solidarity brother!

I've scum slipped as town.