Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[Porkens]

~NAME~

Welcome to Mafia of Revelations. [REDACTED].

No backing out - you're playing this game now.

Your faction wins when it is the only one remaining in the game, or nothing can prevent the same.

Please confirm via PM with the name of your role. The game thread can be found here. I wish you the best of luck.

My PM has something different for the bold. It's two words. I'm interested to know if this is different for everyone...?

[Porkens]

Since most of you are freaking old btw, did you guys see that Hyde from that 70s show got arrested for raping 3 women?

Yeah I always hated that show

[Porkens]

I thought it might have something to do with the hidden mechanic...just curious

[Porkens]

I am enjoying reading the jokes

[Porkens]

VOTE: untrod tripod
Cause...
How often dono get to do that?

AMA how do I reconcile existence with eternity I mean wtf

[Porkens]

It’s chaturbate slang for baby

[Porkens]

Fun Fact! iamusername was scum in my ver first newbie game! I claimed VT in my first post and lost with the rest of the town!

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=8737

[Porkens]

Willful inaccuracy and unfairness are, in a way, a necessity for scum who have to craft reasoning to push players they know are town for.

You said you would do a meta check to assess if my current style of play was a commonality across games: have you?
Do you plan to do the same for Morning Tweet, to see if she follows the pursuit of cuteness in other games?

I don't think either of these meta assessments would take more than a few minutes, and considering that the results could probably shift the trajectory of your game solve pretty hard, why not do them yet?

The best scum find perfectly logical reasons to lynch town.

[Porkens]

The best scum find perfectly logical reasons to lynch town.

Indeed they can cleverly craft seemingly legitimate and logical reasons, but the conclusions are still inaccurate. there's bigger subtleties when this happens, for example their ignoring certain parts that, as town, they wouldn't, etc.

What do you mean the conclusions are inaccurate? When I’m scum and get town lynched, it’s because they are scummy and logically should be lynched. That’s no different from when I’m town. Your theory that mafia always use poor logic to drive mislynches and achieve their win com is just wrong.

Logic is NAI.

[Porkens]

But I even gave you my reason

Could I not just want to be confident in myself and share my cuteness, too? Or is that a crime? Like I don't get your angle, dude.

This pings me as too worried about something pretty silly. Do you really feel unfairly judged by the cutemob speculation game?

[Porkens]

What do you mean the conclusions are inaccurate? When I’m scum and get town lynched, it’s because they are scummy and logically should be lynched. That’s no different from when I’m town. Your theory that mafia always use poor logic to drive mislynches and achieve their win com is just wrong.

You misunderstood what I said.
I didn't say poor logic. I didn't say unsound logic. I said inaccurate logic, in that the conclusions are inaccurate. It's not a theory - it's a fact.

To make a very crude example, a player makes 5 scummy posts and 3 towny posts. It's not unsound to make a case based on the 5 posts. However, the reality of this can be that this player was town, and the

accurate

read a competent town player would have gotten in this scenario would be to correctly weigh those posts accordingly; versus a scum player in the same position who'd instead build that sound-looking case.

Town people naturally tend to project that they're town in high content scenarios.

Besides, because the best scum players can feign legitimacy very well doesn't mean that reading people based on bad logic is an unreliable metric. My experience suggests that this is difficult to fake especially as you get into more "holistic territory" like in my example above, and I've managed to catch competent scum this way.

I don't think I've expressed my thoughts on this very well, but can talk about it in post-game anyway

No, I haven’t misunderstood. You have failed to articulate.

The basis on which I get you lynched are the same regardless of alignment (mine or yours). Those reasons are “accurate” despite how you flip. You were scummy, thus you swang.

[Porkens]

I'm not feeling attacked, though. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I think kmd420 is the type to take everything literally and at face value, and interpret motivations as such.

This is minimizing.

[Porkens]

I accept your surrender

[Porkens]

MT what was your thought process when deciding to employ an opening gimmick?

[Porkens]

MT what was your thought process when deciding to employ an opening gimmick?

"look at all the cute players!! i want them!!!"

probably something like that

Nah nah come on I’m asking a real question about your mind and rescissions. You just said you were thinking about opening gimmicks, I want to hear more about that process don’t brush this off please

[Porkens]

i've enjoyed llamarble's fervent insistence on cutting through the dense layers of jokes and naval-gazing theorycrafting permeating our early-game. actual attempts at analysis? how refreshing!

he's been the one player that's done the most to push the game forward, and on an intuitive level, his reads roughly mirror what i am seeing - especially at the extremes. my biggest disagreement is that of the early game cuteness harvesters/alliance seekers, morning tweet seemed least sincere - or at least, seemed to be opportunistically using the screen of jokes-y cuteness to shield herself from potential early scrutiny.

i don't think abr's opening is suspicious for him. he's a polarising character that is always going to attempt to reinvent the wheel in some way or another early in the game, and probably as either alignment.

kmd has the unfortunate habit of presenting himself as a target. i say "habit", because it appears self-imposed to me. i have to reign in my suspicion of him, because i think he always looks scummier than he actually is.

farside also looks town to me.

Scum

[Porkens]

I’m so glad it’s not just me
VOTE: hooplah

[Porkens]

Yall are gonna have to explain why that's a scum post from Hoopla. Looked like she was just posting her thoughts.

As scum I often feel safer just posting my thoughts like that rather than ask questions or get into a back and forth. Don’t you find that a less risky way to participate?

[Porkens]

don't know how to respond to this sort of criticism. Is there something that seems insincere about it? Sure i couuuld be playing a gimmick so i don't have to pretend to scumhunt or so i can "avoid scrutiny", but also i could just as easily try to fake a bunch of reads and put on my towniest face if i were scum

is there a specific reason you think that's what's happening here?

pedit: your intutition is off then !

one of the lamentable things about intuition is converting those subconscious rumblings into words. here's an attempt:

opening games tend to fragment into themes - jokers/questionnairers/wagoners etc. alliance crafting/cuteness riffing seemed like the dominant theme on page 1. i expect that scum upon observing the main narrative, tend to play along with it, as its the safest entry into the game. the continued adherence to the established running joke being an exercise in avoidance. a shield, if you will.

I like it too.

Now pounce! Who’s going along to get along?

[Porkens]

I don’t know. I guess that most people are, though.

[Porkens]

@KMD regarding VT
I think it’s just a case of “no pressure?”

[Porkens]

So why not push him if your feeling this way? Or push those you don't have reads on?

piecemeal observations and catty potshots from sidelines is my day 1 modus operandi - at least until i have collected enough data for proper meta-analysis.

Again this pings me...

[Porkens]

VOTE: unvote

Intent to lolhammer.

[Porkens]

No promises

[Porkens]

This game kicks ass. I have almost no reads whatsoever.

[Porkens]

Im trying to figure out if you’re genuine or buddying.

i think of it less as buddying, and more like an intricate dance. we're moving at the same tempo and in the same direction; perhaps even listening to the same song. there's a small part of me that hopes it will last forever, but the cynical part of me knows its fleeting.

until the illusion shatters, i just want to have this dance.

I love this post.

[Porkens]

UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername

I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.

Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.

Why you leave MT?

[Porkens]

GC is still voting tripod kinda weirdish

[Porkens]

IAUN has dos posts

[Porkens]

Blair who are IAAU's buddies? Who definitely isn't IAAU's buddies?

It's early to partner hunt him, but if I had to, I would expect at least one on-wagon early bus and at least one off-wagon detractor.

On-wagon: Could be VP Baltar. He felt the need to over explain why he was sheeping me. Could denote self consciousness.

Off-wagon: Porkens or Llamarble. Porkens took a direct stab at the wagon based on IIAU's post count. Llamarble indirectly did the same by bringing it up under the guise of helpfully describing the wagon.

Exaueeze me? To what stab do you refer?

[Porkens]

That’s a stab at a wagon? Can you explain how?

[Porkens]

here's one: Reck saying "oh, UT is probably scum here", me saying "yeah but I'll NK you later bb" and them him saying "okay I'll leave UT alone til Day 3" is the dance we do when we're both town or both scum

lynch one of us to find out which it is!

spoiler alert:

we're both town

oh no, you have me doing self-meta. bad UT.

meta is fucking garbage

now you're def scum

Get a room.

[Porkens]

but your vote on blair didn't come with any questions either

This is true. My RVS vote on Reck was stale and it was time to switch it up. Does that make me hypocritical? I probably should have just FOS'd, tbh.

Reading Blair in ISO shortly after, though, actually confirmed for me that my vote is where it should be right now, so I'm pretty ok with that.

Summarize your scumread based on her iso please.

[Porkens]

Blair who are IAAU's buddies? Who definitely isn't IAAU's buddies?

It's early to partner hunt him, but if I had to, I would expect at least one on-wagon early bus and at least one off-wagon detractor.

On-wagon: Could be VP Baltar. He felt the need to over explain why he was sheeping me. Could denote self consciousness.

Off-wagon: Porkens or Llamarble. Porkens took a direct stab at the wagon based on IIAU's post count. Llamarble indirectly did the same by bringing it up under the guise of helpfully describing the wagon.

saw this post because of MT's 473. do you really think that vpb is playing a scumgame here? i dont want to get too meta-ready but he seems a little more unfiltered than he did in our last normal, at least enough to outweigh anything like early day 1 weak associatives

I'm doing a terrible job this game, and I've recently realized that I've completely forgotten how to scum hunt (I think I knew back in like 2017ish but it's gone now - if anyone can recommend some reading I'd appreciate it)

THAT BEING SAID

This post is scummy to me because it's coaxing suspicion if that makes any sense.

[Porkens]

Teach me sensei

[Porkens]

I’m gunna read this game carefully today I think, get myself into trouble with some READS

[Porkens]

Roger.

I actually have no idea why I got so much towncred for that post built I’m not gunna complain

[Porkens]

I'm going to try to do a deep read of this tonight.

[Porkens]

Sorry, I thought I could get to this tonight but I'm not gunna be able to finish anything coherent tonight. at least we have some days left.

[Porkens]

I'm going through Porkens games, in Taz mafia where he endgames town as scum he sets out in pre-game to exploit Reckoner to tilt him into a freakout.

Interesting read if you're trying to sort the pork.

There’s another game around the same time or even concurrent where I just lurked through the whole thing. I regret using “tilt” as a lever for a game. It’s possible to win that way but it’s pretty selfish and mean. That was at the height of my revulsion at the country. It was a fun scum chat though. Amazing that you can win that way (or get elected that way)

[Porkens]

I’m just saving this game for a nice big reads analysis it’s not 2017 anymore come on

[Porkens]

I am aware my characterization was an imperfect condensation; thought it might trigger you to elaborate a bit more on the specifics of what you liked but wasn't sure.

I don't dislike that he joined a D1 bw for momentum. I think wagons in D1 are important and I don't think it's AI to help generate/propagate a D1 wagon for wagon analysis benefits later on.

That he then turned around not too much later and said "actually I read the bw target as town" presents a pretty open play style (as he's done with his other reads), but (1) his willingness to recognize that it's mostly gut (in contrast to his paragraphs of town reads on others) and (2) that it it's an immediate whiplash from his bw vote, speaks town to me--these are "contradictions" (for lack of a better term, as I just woke up and my mind is foggy) that a scum would rather just avoid than need to justify.

My apologies, I can't figure this out. To whom does this refer?

[Porkens]

I am aware my characterization was an imperfect condensation; thought it might trigger you to elaborate a bit more on the specifics of what you liked but wasn't sure.

I don't dislike that he joined a D1 bw for momentum. I think wagons in D1 are important and I don't think it's AI to help generate/propagate a D1 wagon for wagon analysis benefits later on.

That he then turned around not too much later and said "actually I read the bw target as town" presents a pretty open play style (as he's done with his other reads), but (1) his willingness to recognize that it's mostly gut (in contrast to his paragraphs of town reads on others) and (2) that it it's an immediate whiplash from his bw vote, speaks town to me--these are "contradictions" (for lack of a better term, as I just woke up and my mind is foggy) that a scum would rather just avoid than need to justify.

There you go. And no, that type of observation about VP Baltar is not inferable from current play.

You will not like any vote of mine - either it will be a difficult read and thus comfortable, or an easy read who you find towny, or an "easy read that's scummy" (to you) that's, again, comfortable for me.

See: you're fitting my play to a scum agenda, without actually solving my play. You're adding the "what would I do" lens to every action of mine.

Are you accusing me of confirmation bias? Because sure, I'm experiencing some of that, on top of simply wanting to be correct, to see the red flip justify my mental pattern match.
A certain amount of confirmation bias and excessive confidence are also necessary - it's important for me to influence the lynch instead of letting scum have 4 players worth of say in it.
But that being said, making sure the actions of the player I want to lynch are reasonable from scum are how I escape the confirmation bias if I do have it wrong.
And I haven't seen a reason to escape my bias.

And it is 100% possible to at least vaguely estimate the difficulty of lynching different players.
There's both a general order of lynch difficulty and an order of mislynch difficulty and I don't think either is hard to approximate.
You can figure out wagon-stickiness too. Generally an even keeled, low-moderate effort player who won't explode at people for wagoning them is a more viable D1 mislynch.
Especially if they aren't extra pro town or highly charismatic.

VP seems like a moderately difficult mislynch, but if people do decide he's scummy I don't think he'll produce the kind of ultratowniness moments that would make people flashwagon somebody else at deadline.
Auro also seems like a pretty difficult mislynch; is active and transparent enough that if he's town it would have shone through by now.
Hoopla and Reck are very difficult to lynch as either alignment.
Starbuck is the type to potentially get lynched, but is also volatile enough that for this particular game the wagon doesn't look like it will amount to much.
ABR is similar to VP, maybe a little more likely to go down, a good player but difficult enough to read that people might get him wrong D1 and very unlikely to ultratown and shake a wagon off.
MT seems somewhat mislynchable, but appears to have moderate volatility.

etc.

Die.

VOTE: Auro

What the actual fuck are you doing? I just read this whole fucking game and get more and more excited that, shit, ABR has a live one! We're gunna fucking Lynch scum day 1 in a huge awesome game! And then I get to the last page and YOU UNFUCKING VOTE THE WAGON THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DRAGGING UP THE MOUNTAIN FOR 18 FUCKING PAGES BECAUSE AURO TILTED YOU? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

GET YOUR GOD DAMN VOTE BACK ON VPB YOU DO NOT GET TO ABANDON THIS.

VOTE: VPB

[Porkens]

Also, if you guys lynch VPB after me and he flips town: quicklynch ABR.

as for YOU, when the FUCK did you start reading VPB as town?

[Porkens]

Then why are you against his Lynch?

[Porkens]

Those quotes are artifacts of my read through and have noting to do with the written statement btw

[Porkens]

Well stop indulging yourself and fix your vote.

[Porkens]

Sure:

Spoiler:

I am aware my characterization was an imperfect condensation; thought it might trigger you to elaborate a bit more on the specifics of what you liked but wasn't sure.

I don't dislike that he joined a D1 bw for momentum. I think wagons in D1 are important and I don't think it's AI to help generate/propagate a D1 wagon for wagon analysis benefits later on.

That he then turned around not too much later and said "actually I read the bw target as town" presents a pretty open play style (as he's done with his other reads), but (1) his willingness to recognize that it's mostly gut (in contrast to his paragraphs of town reads on others) and (2) that it it's an immediate whiplash from his bw vote, speaks town to me--these are "contradictions" (for lack of a better term, as I just woke up and my mind is foggy) that a scum would rather just avoid than need to justify.

Pretty sure this was a misclick, can't find anything interesting there.

There you go. And no, that type of observation about VP Baltar is not inferable from current play.

You will not like any vote of mine - either it will be a difficult read and thus comfortable, or an easy read who you find towny, or an "easy read that's scummy" (to you) that's, again, comfortable for me.

See: you're fitting my play to a scum agenda, without actually solving my play. You're adding the "what would I do" lens to every action of mine.

Are you accusing me of confirmation bias? Because sure, I'm experiencing some of that, on top of simply wanting to be correct, to see the red flip justify my mental pattern match.
A certain amount of confirmation bias and excessive confidence are also necessary - it's important for me to influence the lynch instead of letting scum have 4 players worth of say in it.
But that being said, making sure the actions of the player I want to lynch are reasonable from scum are how I escape the confirmation bias if I do have it wrong.
And I haven't seen a reason to escape my bias.

And it is 100% possible to at least vaguely estimate the difficulty of lynching different players.
There's both a general order of lynch difficulty and an order of mislynch difficulty and I don't think either is hard to approximate.
You can figure out wagon-stickiness too. Generally an even keeled, low-moderate effort player who won't explode at people for wagoning them is a more viable D1 mislynch.
Especially if they aren't extra pro town or highly charismatic.

VP seems like a moderately difficult mislynch, but if people do decide he's scummy I don't think he'll produce the kind of ultratowniness moments that would make people flashwagon somebody else at deadline.
Auro also seems like a pretty difficult mislynch; is active and transparent enough that if he's town it would have shone through by now.
Hoopla and Reck are very difficult to lynch as either alignment.
Starbuck is the type to potentially get lynched, but is also volatile enough that for this particular game the wagon doesn't look like it will amount to much.
ABR is similar to VP, maybe a little more likely to go down, a good player but difficult enough to read that people might get him wrong D1 and very unlikely to ultratown and shake a wagon off.
MT seems somewhat mislynchable, but appears to have moderate volatility.

etc.

Yeah, this one I had a cartoon style double take. I was gunna ask something like "Does this way of thinking help you find scum?" but then I admitted to myself that I do this kind of 'who could I get wagoned/lynched' as town pretty often so I decided it was NAI.

Die.

VOTE: Auro

[/quote]

This one obviously was pertinent.

[Porkens]

No my major reason was NOT "because ABR said so."

I said "ABR caught a live one."

I just finished reading to this point and I have notes that I'll turn into a reads list now, but that unvote really tweaked me so I'm just spewing.

Somewhere, vaguely, in the back of my mind, I remember someone (spyrex?) telling me that when someone gets run up to l-1 or l-2 but then the wagon falls apart, it gets a lot harder to wagon them a second time and scum can use this by bussing a partner to the edge and then letting the wagon dissolve.

[Porkens]

First of all, every time I think about this game, this song starts playing in my head:

Spoiler:

Please consider it the soundtrack to this post.

Answers to Auro and Llamarble:

Spoiler:

Interesting analysis. What happens when it's a town wagon that gets run up to L-1? As someone who thinks L-x wagon cycling is a really good strategy, I'm curious.

I had asked for your analysis if he flips town. So if he flips scum, you'd think there were bussers on his wagon?

I believe the idea holds no matter the alignment of the target - if someone gets run up to l-2, l-1 and doesn't get lynched they get harder to Lynch later. sometimes scum can use this to their advantage. Please hold on part 2 of your question.

I just finished reading to this point and I have notes that I'll turn into a reads list now, but that unvote really tweaked me so I'm just spewing.

Sounds good to me.
It's a bit of a shock when somebody comes back from a couple days of lower activity to GO ALL OUT on the player who happens to already have the biggest wagon, but if you have an internal "if we don't get them the first runup we'll never get them" then I get it.

I unvoted because I lost count and didn't particularly want to leave Auro holding the hammer having already expressed intent to maybe vote VPB.

Fair, I think he's at L-2.

some social stuff:

Spoiler:

I'm really excited to be playing with such a high caliber group. Especially so many familiar peeps. Frankly I'm honored. Pigs are one of the cutest animals, so I consider myself at least an associate of the cute club. Starbuck, I loved the picture you posted. I came to MS after first playing on Epic Mafia, which gave me a ton of bad habits that I still can’t seem to break. Someone mentioned that we grew up in an old meta that bears little resemblance to today and I couldn’t agree more. My favorite finished game is probably dreamerlz’s “a little house in the woods”. It was mad flavor and I just had a blast creatively in it. Favorite role is multi-kill day vig, or any vig really. I like so many scummers it’s impossible to pick 5. I think the one I look up to most at the moment is NSG.

Reflections on the game thus far:

Spoiler:

As I read through I took some scratch notes, but I think the most ill squeeze out of them right now is a rough reads list and it probably won't be airtight and internally consistent, so if something looks wrong that I should reconsider, let me know. I also have a couple comments and questions. I HAVE read the whole game, from the eternal debate on cuteness, through Starbuck's great adventures, the UT saga subplot, and the VP wagon, but, like I said, I only have scratch notes and it's impossible to coalesce everything in this one post because I'm just not that good.

apropos of nothing I have a silly theory about REK's knowledge, and it's probably wrong but I won't spill it. But, since we know ONLY ONE of those with knowledge is town, unless anyone wants to counterclaim secret knowledge, I ~think~ that clears rek? Someone check my math on that please.

OH by the way, my "dos votes" comments was in answer to somebody asking somebody else (don't remember) "please compare iaun to X" (see I barely remember the context but it was not a "stab" at a wagon in either sense, just kind of an incredulous "what's to compare the dude has two votes" comment in a conversation I wasn't involved it). Funny to see it brought up so often.

QUESTIONS for several people:

Spoiler:

ALBERT, when did you initially start to scum read Auro?

GREEN CRAYONS, When did YOU initially start to scum read Auro? When did Hoopla turn neutral to you? When did MT turn town? When did Starbuck turn town? Why was UT initially scummy to you?

HOOPLA, when did you start to townread Llamarble?

IAMUSERNAME, when did YOU start to scum read Auro?

LLAMARBLE, When did Farside turn town to you? when did Crayons get a scum read from you? When did IAUN first seem scummy to you, and when did Reckoner first seem scummy to you?

MORNING TWEET, when did Blair turn neutral for you? When did far side turn scummy?

RECKONER, When did Starbuck go from scummy to towny for you?

And here's a weird fucking reads list for you:

Spoiler:

SNIPERS

(economical, precise, detatched)

Agar (LN)
iamusername (CN)

PALADINS

(self-righteous, self-assured, obvious)

Auro (CG)
Llamarble (LN)

BARDS

(whimsical, ephemeral, unassuming)

Morning Tweet (CN)
Can't Lynch a Puppy (LE)

TANKS

(blunt, straight forward, tough)

KMD4390 (LG)
Farside (LG)

BRAWLERS

(scrappy, careless, dogged)

Starbuck (CG)
Blair (CN)

THIEVES

(tactical, considered, intermittent)

Green Crayons (CE)

WIZARDS

(aloof, profound, weighty)

Hoopla (CG)
Untrod Tripod (CG)
Reckoner (CG*)

Melee DPS

Albert (CN)
VP Baltar (NE)

But Porkens, WHY VP YOU DIDNT EXPLAIN YOUR READ EEUEUEUUEUEEGHHH

Spoiler:

VPs I-would-call-flaily response to Albert, and Albert's ferocity and my initial impression of his case lead me to believe that Albert is correct. I don't have the time to iso VP right now, but I intend to do so when my brain isn't a fried egg.

[Porkens]

Hawt New Game Mechanic Rules:
1) A Revelation. Some players begin the game with additional information about the game setup.

All but one of these players are Town-aligned.

Players that have additional information are not considered power roles and will not flip differently from how they otherwise would.
2) Another Revelation. This is a hidden mechanic within the game.

FUCK I misremembered NEVER MIND Adjust Rek from CG to NG

[Porkens]

Good morning.
<slurps coffee>
I really hate that unvote from ABR.

[Porkens]

For now that’s just how I felt reading through, that you were scummy as you defended yourself. I’ll iso you later this morning and give specifics.

[Porkens]

That reminds me that on the other side of the VP wagon coin that it really started at a time when there were two other competing wagons, and I meant to go back and look in to that too.

[Porkens]

@ABR

Why would you forsake the wagon you built to vote someone

for not getting on that wagon

?

You could make the same case that Auto is scum without changing your vote.

[Porkens]

@ABR that is a shitty sideways response to a fair, straightforward question.

On ABR v VP,

On closer inspection, this is looking more like Blair v Starbuck where neither side comes out looking great. VP’s accusation of OMGUS is flimsy. “You are on a wagon with MT” mathematically approaches “you are wasting your vote” but never actually gets there.

On the other side, the counterattack to that very same point is overblown. Furthermore, ABR’s refrain of “he’s desperately trying to look town, c’mon guys pile on” Is desperate in and of itself. The fact is there just isn’t much substance to this case.

Initially, I was going to end this post with “fine people on both sides, but we’ll will see what happens.” Instead, however, I’ll propose this hypothesis:

Revelation, Porkens 3:16;

Spoiler:

This has all been scum theater. A hidden mechanic in this game activates POWERFUL POWERS when the player reaches L-1. This wagon was designed to get VP juuuust up to the brink. I think the proest town thing to do would be to push it off the cliff.

[Porkens]

See you keep arguing for things that don’t get VP lynched.

[Porkens]

See you keep arguing for things that don’t get VP lynched.

What I'm certain of is that we need to put pressure on strong scum players. Auro and VP Baltar have red flags but aren't confirmed scum. I need information. Why is your certainty level so high?

So after all that posting calling VP scum, you unvote, and ask me what makes me “certain”.

[Porkens]

No, on reading with fresh eyes I don’t think VP’s defense was hugely scummy, and I take back the description of “flailing.”

I don’t necessarily think VP is the best lynch. However, for the reasons I outlined before, I’m reluctant to let go of this bone until things develop a bit more.

[Porkens]

Oh just read my readslist then before you play dnd

[Porkens]

There is plenty of time to form a different wagon if someone feels they have a case against someone else.

[Porkens]

I'll be happy when VP Baltar is put to L-1 and claims.

But you could do that and aren’t.

[Porkens]

I'll be happy when VP Baltar is put to L-1 and claims.

But you could do that and aren’t.

This doesn’t seem strange to anyone but me, huh?

[Porkens]

Stating non-zero possibility that I lolhammer if I don’t get a fucking answer from someone

[Porkens]

No, that’s insane. He typed “I will be happy when my dude is at l-1”

You know what he could have typed instead? VOTE VPB. That isn’t “fixated” that’s

bullshit

UT/Hooplah/ABR/llamarble

[Porkens]

VOTE: vp baltar

[Porkens]

VOTE: ABR

FUCK you guys got me so mad I’m gunna throw a clot

[Porkens]

Yes I am mad because abr is doing shinnanigans in broad daylight and nobody gives a fuck.

I’m mad because inexplicably the players who I would think can see it are actively ignoring it.

In what world does leading a wagon to l-2, then jumping off while still pushing it, then when it gets back to l-2 complain about it instead of getting back on s m pro town?

Why does hooplah jump off?

Why do hooplah and it ignore it?

What do you think of that GC?

[Porkens]

He's at L-3.

Oh, lol.

VOTE: VP Baltar

Are you happy now?

I'll be happy when VP Baltar is put to L-1 and claims.

GC explain this

[Porkens]

ANR why didn’t you put VP at L-1 when you had the chance?

[Porkens]

Horseshit you said you wanted VPB at L-1 and could have put that vote down yourself for 3 pages. Why didn’t you do that

[Porkens]

You lied to auro that you scumread VPB? So all that VPB wagon was a lie?

[Porkens]

why don’t you want VPB to claim?

[Porkens]

GC to the rescue! That’s shit GC and you know it you would never give that kind of leeway to anyone else you are making up reasons for hooplah and ABR and I bet they are feeding them to you in your pt.

If he scumread VPB he would put him at l-1 and get the claim he says he wants but no he claims he was lying.

GC/Hoopla/ABR for certain, cant trust UT or Llamarbles unless they come around soon

[Porkens]

So VPB’s claim wouldn’t have been information to gather why?

[Porkens]

porkens, i'm personally fine with either lynch (pending claims of course)

Explain why you are OK with ABR here

[Porkens]

Jesus
Fucking
Christ

Fine. Fine. Let’s just let it fucking BREATH

P. Edit see in your heart you know ABR should be the competing wagon.

[Porkens]

Green Crayons is scum.

[Porkens]

“Ohh but porkens you are just scumreading anyone who doesn’t agree with you ohhh”

On this issue, yeah, anyone who argues that complaining that someone isNt at l-1 instead of voting to make it so is totally fine and logical can eat rope. Especially if they make excuses for that person. Especially especially when 2-3 other people make excuses for that person all together. Especially then.

Are we doing it right? I’m worried he’s overdramatizing...

[Porkens]

You lied to auro that you scumread VPB? So all that VPB wagon was a lie?

This seems particularly obtuse.

I have to go now.

[Porkens]

That’s one.

[Porkens]

What’s the ABR read based on?

P. Edit that’s 2.

[Porkens]

Oh you make sense to me. Jinning up a wagon, then hopping of while it careens off the cliff is great scumplay. Especially when you hedge with “its for rxn and it m not even that confident like 55%”

How is it pro town to not get a claim from someone you scumread when you have the chance?

[Porkens]

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

[Porkens]

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

That's the same thing Auro said. You won't find me lining up lynches in my iso so your accusations are baseless. I think Auro flips scum and this is a last-ditch attempt to save him.

You are calling me scum?
Not lining up lunches? You already bragged about building wagons from scratch and you pumped up both of these, lining up lynched is exclusively what you are doing.

[Porkens]

How is it pro town to not get a claim from someone you scumread when you have the chance?

How ironic. I'm trying to get Auro to claim right now and you are the one derailing.

Yeah that’s not going to work on me. You lost your “I want people to claim” credibility when you uardpassed on VPB

[Porkens]

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

We are not allowing that lol and there's no way scum!ABR thinks he can get away with such a simple plan

I also thought your strategy of running up one of the hardest to lynch players today was a pretty good idea - so here we are!

so you're venturing down new horizons with Pork to sort ABR? Do you think ABR stands a similar chance flipping red as Auro?

Simple plans are the easiest to get away with, and by the reaction of you and the rest of his defenders, he should be as confident.

[Porkens]

VOTE: auro spiritually still on ABR

L-1 claim

[Porkens]

Go I’ll try later. Right now I’m kinda burned out on explaining things.

[Porkens]

As a side: if the last ditch ABR wagon attempt had scum involvement in it, that's brilliant play.

VOTE: vpbaltar

Right?

[Porkens]

Bwhahahahheueueueu this town is FUCKED. I’m just gunna take GCs advice and get drunk ona Friday. VP I told you no I’m not gunna answer you tonight I’m done trying to make contact with earth and aparenta I’m out in space where all the rules are different.

[Porkens]

Oh what we aren’t going to get a claim from vpbaltar after all whaaaat oh wow whaaaat?

[Porkens]

Refer to my PoE list in my ISO with the following modifications:
>townread on Hoopla weakens, and Reck moreso
>last minute ABR wagon deserves a lot of individual scrutiny
>UT's thrown out of that list
>People half assed suspecting me while not committing the vote, pre ABR orchestration
>At least pressure farside

May I? Are you ready?

[Porkens]

Goodnight, sweet prince.

VOTE: auro

I’ll never forget you.

[Porkens]

Nothing matters. We’ve gone over the rainbow. UT I imagine you’ll be standing by a lot of corpses this game, and I don’t have the clout to stop you and your cult. But I just want you to know I

know

[Porkens]

Haven’t you heard? This day was too long and just needs to end.

[Porkens]

Pork's hammer was super irrational but if he's scum i feel like i have to let him get away with it because I could see him just being pissed off enough into not caring anymore

If I sustain my reads im more drawn to earlier wagoners as well as off wagon players. Pork/UT i dont think is scum from that interaction and i townleaned Starbuck as well

Oh don’t worry they’ll come after me like flies on shit tomorrow.

[Porkens]

Right that won’t be turned around on me at all as “shutting down further opportunity for information”. I’ve heard this song before and I’m not stressing it know why? Because scum has had complete control of this game for 20 pages and nobody gives a shit.

Auro: <3

[Porkens]

Why is it rational to say you want someone at L-1 and not vote to put them there?

[Porkens]

Right that won’t be turned around on me at all as “shutting down further opportunity for information”. I’ve heard this song before and I’m not stressing it know why? Because scum has had complete control of this game for 20 pages and nobody gives a shit.

Auro: <3

You are clinically insane. That's literally not what happened.

Ahhhhhhh I see now. That made me smile. You quoted Taz mafia to tease me about what you were gunna do. Very droll.

[Porkens]

Why is it rational to say you want someone at L-1 and not vote to put them there?

No i mean hammering Auro when you're convinced scum i.e. ABR is controlling the game away from a VP wagon and onto an Auro one, makes no sense. You sounded like you were pissed off we were all sheeping scum so your response was to be the final vote

...you did hammer didnt you? Yeah i checked to make sure im not insane

God you still won’t answer me. The whole group of you has just decided to gaslight me. I’m not the crazy one.

[Porkens]

MT yes sorry that is pretty much what happened.

[Porkens]

you're playing with veterans who share a

CULT META

while you shitpost and theorycraft, what did you think was going to happen?

FTFY

[Porkens]

I think MT is the scum.

yeah let's accuse Porkens/UT and Auro himself, and attack whoever disagrees with that

Why is it rational to say you want someone at L-1 and not vote to put them there?

No i mean hammering Auro when you're convinced scum i.e. ABR is controlling the game away from a VP wagon and onto an Auro one, makes no sense. You sounded like you were pissed off we were all sheeping scum so your response was to be the final vote

...you did hammer didnt you? Yeah i checked to make sure im not insane

God you still won’t answer me. The whole group of you has just decided to gaslight me. I’m not the crazy one.

What? I did answer, i was trying to clear up what i meant by irrational. Putting him at L-1 was fine by you, that's not what i meant

I’m talking about ABR refusing to put VPB at l-1 when that’s what his stated intent was and the complete disinterest in going back on VP after auro claimed

[Porkens]

Ah yes he should've just "fought harder". His reaction seemed great to me. He fought really really hard where i would have just gotten demotivated in his place. He claimed just fine too

He fought in the last page and just as he was starting to look town and I was going to unvote, Porkens couldn't help himself and hammered while we had plenty of time left and players who hadn't checked in yet to weigh in on the claim. What the fuck.

You said "Any last reads?" in response to him. it didn't come off that way at all

Oh my god I see the same reality as someone else what is this feeling is almost forgotten

[Porkens]

you just have to take my word for it but I was about to unvote and Porkens dropped hammer so bad it should be illegal for town

He knows I’m town

[Porkens]

Porkens, have you ever played with Not_Mafia?

Not that I recall.

[Porkens]

you just have to take my word for it but I was about to unvote and Porkens dropped hammer so bad it should be illegal for town

He knows I’m town

I love to be scum against you, that's for sure. When you shoot us in the foot like this.

Man this really is 2008 again

[Porkens]

ABR: instead of blaming me, do you not want my opinions on anything else - especially considering you said you were lying about reads earlier etc?

Of course he doesn’t he’s fucking scum

[Porkens]

It’s not that kind of cult

[Porkens]

Ohhh maybe it is that would be amazing. Get someone to L-1 to recruit? Mmmmmm

[Porkens]

But why did he put the breaks on culting VPB?

[Porkens]

You were one of the good ones tho blair, but in the end I think you’ll see it was for the best

[Porkens]

I mean you got with me on ABR at a time when I really needed a hand, that was clutch

[Porkens]

Well Vi did say it was a swingy mechanic, and it’s hard to thunk about something more swingy than cult

[Porkens]

Again, please scrutinize the last minute ABR wagon. I pointed out that that could be brilliant scum play: to give the impression that it was an attempt to save me, thus justifying my lynch more...
(Which UT exactly either took the bait for, or is scum with whoever planned that)

Wait what’s your theory of the scumteam for this to work?

[Porkens]

I'm not doing further work now, that is for you all to figure out

I’m just asking for a spitball I won’t hold you to great explanations or anything

[Porkens]

You were one of the good ones tho blair, but in the end I think you’ll see it was for the best

Please explain how.

I think it will ultimately be revealing. You’ll all be pouring over this day 9 or whatever you’ll see.


P. Edit well I started it, then Blair joined, and then puppy joined. And then Maggie laughed, she’s such a trooper.

P p edit. MT knows what’s up.

[Porkens]

Where did I defend her?

[Porkens]

That one. Sailed over my head UT, who’s not reading what?


Auro: I just meant it was nice of her and made me feel better about life that she actually didn’t just dismiss my thoughts out of cool, cliquish hands. I’m not calling her town or anything. I’d saaaaay LN on her right now

[Porkens]

Maggie is a Simpsons reference from like 15 years ago?

[Porkens]

Sorry, 27 years ago fuuuuuuck

[Porkens]

Ok thanks for clarifying.

[Porkens]

Who’s laws?

[Porkens]

I got a slight town buzz from that exchange

[Porkens]

It really is.

[Porkens]

Oh shit, jokes on me. Ugh ask me about this post after the game.

[Porkens]

Mornin’

Well sorry for quick hammering, I shouldn’t have played so selfishly. I regretted it pretty immediately and sweated bullets all night actually I had a nightmare about it. When auto flipped I was so relieved.

Gamma’s here holy shit now the party can start

I like the analysis going on.

I also find it scummy when players defend others on meta for no apparent reason but on the other hand I would NEVER defend a mafia partner so obviously on day one. I’m not MT though so, maybe?

Starbucks vote on me doesn’t line up with her suspicion of MT being scum and calling me obvtown.

The ABR counterwagon was for great justice and brilliant and I’ll hear nothing to the contrary. For the record those who jumped on it should be kept an eye on just like auro said...wait

Sooooo for all those folks on the VPB wagon, what do you think now?

[Porkens]

I don’t want to relitigating the whole ABR fiasco tripod, I never called auro town and was just fine as pie lynching him. Do you think I would lynch my tracker? It was never about auro, as my posting is clear on, I was throwing a tantrum because of the specific actions that ABR took in regards to VPB.

But I’ve said all this more than anyone wants to read, so let’s just move on.

[Porkens]

VOTE: starbuck

Bullshit, my tantrum was real. And this feels very much like a “go after porkens for his lolhammer on day 2”

Same song as always.

[Porkens]

Go ahead, the bit of information that I received is one of you or farside are scum. I think it's you. So no, my vote isn't moving and you shouldn't be been so obvscum yesterday with your reactionary stances.

VOTE: starbuck

Bullshit, my tantrum was real. And this feels very much like a “go after porkens for his lolhammer on day 2”

Same song as always.

You OMGUSing here?

Not entirely, that right out of the gate attack on the guy who looks scummy because of the previous twilight is the most obvious scum maneuver. Capitalized on the ill will town feels about me. Seen it before that’s all. But yeah sure it also does suck.


P. Edit, VP so what happens when I flip town?

[Porkens]

No, I just got pissed off that ABR apparently has the clout to do something that seemingly illogical and everyone who I respect says “oh yeah it makes sense”. Well I was wrong, and y’all were right and I accept that. Please understand that ABR just tricked me into losing a game by hammering KMD so I was admittedly a little butt hurt about that. Now, some of it was exaggerated yes. One play I tend to fall back on is hamming it up (get it?) to get scum to blink. Sometimes it works, this time it may not have (although the if the Hopons onto the ABR wagon turn out to be scum it’s a big “I told you so” after the game.

ABR is wrong it’s not a 50/50 bet because Starbucks said it’s one or the other of me/farside so there is Th e potential to get two mislynches out of that. However, since the scumteam is down one I don’t think scumbuck makes this gambit.

VOTE: farside

[Porkens]

Between Porkens/farside atm I'd definitely vote farside.

okay I'll spoiler it for you Porkens hardpushed a counterwagon to the flipped scum (Auro) on the flipped town (ABR) when Auro was at L-1

Auro and Blair declared that my putting the now-flipped scum (Auro) at L-2 was bad and I was therefore scum. my analysis was that Auro was likely scum *because* of the attempted counterwagon on ABR and I was very incredibly right about both of their alignments so yeah that pile of slots sucks real hard and all should be 100% marked for death and they can kiss my grits

I want to understand. Why do you think my stated motivation for hard pushing the wagon on ABR?

[Porkens]

What do you think my stated motivation was?

[Porkens]

VP makes a decent point that this is a bad play by scum!Starbuck since they already lost a team member, though. I was kinda thinking maybe it was feasible since that's two free mislynches if we follow her but even then it seems unlikely.

i almost think it wouldn't be a bad play for scum!starbuck to set up two mislynches in a row of townies, even though it would result in her lynch on D4. you end up waking up on D5 in a (likely) 2:7 configuration (assuming no other kills), with hardly any scum associations to go off since d2/d3/d4 is essentially just going through the motions.

nightkills of the three best/most obv townies + two mislynches on fairly universally townread players (porkens/farside) + three low-information day phases is more than adequate compensation for your own lynch on D4.

Yeah I guess that does set up two days of mislynches. However, if we started with starbuck we’d rule that out and have a 50/50 tomorrow at worst. I don’t love that option because I think that fact actually makes it a shitty gambit, but I also don’t like the two days of mislynches either

VOTE: unvote hrm.

[Porkens]

I was reading VPB as town the whole time. If anyone was obvtown yesterday, it was him. When I started reading how town he was coming off, I figured ABR had something up his sleeve so I was waiting to see where he was going with it. He nailed Auro early and worked his ass off to get us a scum lynch on Day 1. I wholeheartedly appreciate that he could see through all the noise to get us that, even if Auro was pretty obvious in his scumminess anyways. I was really starting to question his invitation to the game if he had flipped town. ABR's death is not in vain and we will avenge him.

Given that last-minute push onto him, I think there's scum in the 3 of Porkens, Blair, and CLAP. Of the 3, I think Porkens because his tantrum felt fabricated, he was all over the place, and it was like he was trying to redeem himself with that hammer. I'm very happy with my Porkens vote and I think y'all should join me.

Alright, I’m pretty sure starbuck is scum here. Her play yesterday does nothing to suggest she had any such information from day 1. She makes no attempt to sort farside at all, I don’t think she evens mentions her. She doesn’t say boo about me till the end of the day with the AVPBR wagons. Finally, why even hold that information day one at all? What if she were the nightkill, then that info does with her? Doesn’t make sense for town.

VOTE: starbuck

[Porkens]

Oh and in that quote she says she’s pretty sure there is scum in Blair, clap, or me. No mention of farside whatsoever.

[Porkens]

Go ahead, the bit of information that I received is one of you or farside are scum. I think it's you. So no, my vote isn't moving and you shouldn't be been so obvscum yesterday with your reactionary stances.

I believe this.

Consider my vote spiritually on Porkens. (Not sure how close we are to hammer, can't be bothered to check)

This was a revelation she had from day 1, right? So why not out it say 1?

[Porkens]

I don't know. If she can give a good reason why she kept it secret yesterday, I could unvote just because it is such a bad gambit if that's the case.

[Porkens]

Pod, I dig all of that, but that "big play" never pays off in any universe. I'm not trying to be difficult, just say in your own words, IF IM TOWN, what was I doing and why, just as I've stated it? You don't have to believe it, just articulate it, please, so I know I've made myself understood.


----


I know I made a shitshow of yesterday, but I think if you look at my "reactions," as Starbuck put it, you will see they were founded in a real strange ABR behavior. NOW I UNDERSTAND it was a gimmick, but I did not believe so yesterday. My bad. I am sorry for quick hammering, and I'm even sorrier if I get my town ass lynched today for it.

As for my self defense I would never hammer my team's tracker. I can't think of what would be worth that trade. On the same token, I would not hard defend my scum partner day 1, even if they were a tracker as it's basically handing town a two-for-one. I was trying to stand up to against what I perceived to be ABR masterminding. That's all.

Again, if Starbuck can give a decent explanation as to why she would hide the revelation that either me or far side is scum from day one, I'll switch. I could also buy that it was some kind of town gambit to shake the tree and see what falls. In any of the cases, I'm not scum, and if I was, I'd be keeping my stupid head down rather than gathering all the attention upon myself. In the game MT posted, that's what happened - I lurked and camped my vote until I got called out on it and then I had to bullshit my way our of a Lynch, which I did with more bullshit. I don't know why it worked, I don't claim much credit for it; I feel I did the only thing that I could.

This game I was widely townread all the way up to my confrontation with ABR. How many votes were on Auro when I exploded at ABR? 1? 2? That's not a last-ditch effort to save my scum partner. That's me focusing on ABR and VPB. Again, it had shit all to do with Auro.

Anyway, at least do me this favor so I don't feel quite so shitty about this game. If you decide you are going to Lynch me, just keep that a spiritual wagon until you've squeezed out everything out of the game. Read for both contingencies: pork scum and pork town. Just do me that favor, pretty please.

anyway, ill check this after I brush my teeth but otherwise goodnight.

-oink

[Porkens]

Ok, that’s awesome Hoopla. I’m really impressed by the statistical analysis you’ve done it’s inspiring and your analysis of the wagon is, I feel, very much in the right direction.

Im willing to trust starbuck if she has a good reason for not outing the info yesterday. Otherwise I’m scared of losing 4 townies.

I think what I need to do here is be brutally honest about my lived experience. I think that if I can spew enough of my own truth it will be clear that I’m not scum here. It’s going to be embarrassing for me, but here goes.

I started playing mafia scum I. 2008 with my IrL friend spyrex. You know him. He quickly became really, really good at forum mafia. He’s like that in all games. Tactical, game breaking strategist who figures it out theee steps before I could. That made me feel really inferior to him in mafia. Because of his skill, he was quick to make really good friends here too. I didn’t. I wasn’t good at reading for scum and I couldn’t follow mechanics and I was constantly being called a shit player when I was really trying, and that sucked. I’m not a dumb person, but for whatever reason mafia doesn’t click for me the same way it does for people like spyrex. This made me feel pretty diminished, and I quit. Now I think spyrex is a great guy with a good heart, and I don’t lay any of this on him - it’s me, but that’s his part in this story. And here’s the part that hurts: I was jealous. I wanted to show him I was as good, smart, skilled and I tried to take him on in a couple games, but he knew he had so much clout he could flip it on me no matter what, and he did, and it made me mad.

So I took a long break and came back some years later to try playing again. I wanted to become a better player, and I tried to learn. I had a little success; my win rate was a little better, but what I found was that I still couldn’t play the way most really good players do. I can’t analyze a wagon or line up lynches. I have a hard time seeing players working together or distancing. What I did find that worked was making a jackass out of myself, spouting off with random theories, lolhammering, and seeing who jumped on my wagon. Eventually, this became part of my reputation. I also started reading the game almost peitou emotionally and tonally. Focusing on how someone writes rather than what they wright. And sometimes I fucking nail it, and hit the scumteam early on. Unfortunately that doesn’t do much for my ego because the best players still call it shit meta. Which I alnowledge it is.

Another feature of this time in my mafia career was new superstars. Radient Cowbells, mastina, Others, and some of the players in this game to name a few. These people could fool others as scum, and catch the scum as town. I was so intimidated and jealous of these players that I would go after them I games sometimes, trying to prove I was just as good. But I wasn’t. They played layers of games while I was stuck at the very surface. I have tried to play like that, but I can only do it for very short bursts before my confidence shatters and I revert back to “clinically insane” porkens. Sometimes I post in pink text as another voice from my head

(which I am, and it’s my head not his)

and sometimes I just pick a theory and run with it no matter how unlikely it is, ESPECIALLY if it’s against one of these really good players. And you know what? It kind of worked. I had a better record as both maf and town in that era. I couldn’t be a great mafia player, but I could play a character, and sometimes that was good enough to win and have fun. I think of it as pro wrestling. It’s all a work until it’s a shoot, it afterwards it’s can all be a work again. So I had some success but I still wasn’t what I wanted to be, I still wasn’t ever going to win a scummy.

So now I come back in 2020. I decided to play again when farside came back and I was like hell yeah. Now I’m having a good time, got a good win rate, makin some friends, seeing some old faces, and this game show up and I’m like “hell yeah” again. Let’s see if I can make a good showing. (Stop laughing)

Like I said before Albert made a fool of me in our last game together. Then he started doing funny business in this game with the VP wagon. I got a theory in my head and went full bore on it. None of you would even acknowledge what he was doing was in any way scummy, or explain it to me, and I got pissssed offfff. All those feelings of being out of the cool kids club and being shit at the game came flooding back. Everyone knows what alberts doing except me. I don’t get it because I’m the shit player, the dumb one. This is how I felt. Albert can say “I’m never lynched day one because I’m so strong” and that makes him sound town. God damn it just makes me so JEALOUS. So, taking that emotion, and trying to get some agency in the game and maybe accomplish something g with my tiny insignificant self, I vote for Albert. I don’t want to fall for his shit, I don’t want to cower before his strength, I don’t understand his gambit and god damn it I’m not going to be bullied or cajoled into following it and I’m sure as hell not going to be ignored.

I had moments of lucidity in this rage haze. I thought “well if Albert is town and I let myself throw this shit fit, maybe scum will reveal themselves somehow. When Blair and CLAP got on the wagon I said “there’s one” and “that’s two”. In my head I said “there’s one scu” and “there’s two scum”. Now at this point I knew there was no way Albert was getting lynched and I was just being petulant, but since I was already so ramped up I figured I could maybe use that pestilance to some good. Play the part, work the scum, pro wrestle it. But simultaneously I’m still thinking if Albert is scum I’m not going to be tricked and I’m stating it now so I look smart after the game

not kidding in many cases this is what he cares about most!

So this brings me to the hammer. I hammered because...sigh...I wanted to have done something meaningful in the game. I wanted something to be about me instead of about Albert. I wanted to be the center of attention. I also thought it might Cause some ripples that someone, maybe even me, could see scum standing out in. Sadly, once I realized I was fulfilling everyone’s worst expectations of me, I felt terrible. I reread the votecou t and missed tripods in-line vote, which made me think “oh god I didn’t really hammer that’s great now it looks like an epic fake hammer and we can get some reactions and everyone with think I planned it and I’ll look smart and good at the game” . This is where most of the banter post hammer took place. I actually thought that others were in on it and playing along, really meme of it up with me. Then when things quieted down I counted again and realized no..Tripod voted in his paragraph...jokes on me. When auro flipped, I was so grateful not to have fucked it up. I dumbhammered, but at least it was scum. If he was town I would feel 1000% worse. But he wasn’t he was scum. And a scum tracker at that. Too bad I didn’t have anything to do with it other than fucking in the last 6 possible days of discussion. And make me an easy lynch.

Well. I think that’s about it.

[Porkens]

I’m not trying to appeal to your emotions, actually. I’m explaining my actions by telling you about my emotions.

[Porkens]

But thanks all the same

[Porkens]

Sorry

[Porkens]

I have no revelation. 4 town is two mislynches and two nightkills.

[Porkens]

I take back what I said about Starbuck not mentioning farside, I looked again at the posts you mentioned and yes, there is effort to sort her. And I can understand why you didn’t put it out day 1, and felt safe from the nightkill.

I believe starbuck. That is the explanation I was looking for. Farside on the other hand drops a vote on me and walks away, never questioning at all that starbuck has the slightest chance to be scum. Oh and then she says she’s busy and won’t be back (which may be true but is also a great excuse to ghost this day until things shake out)

So farside is scum, whoo hoo!

So Starbuck, do you think I would put such a target on myself yesterday as scum, and if so, why?

VOTE: farside22

[Porkens]

Tripod, fair enough but I wagoned ABR and quickhammered Auro either for the internal emotional reasons I explain in my story OR because it was a gambit to make myself look so scummy that people believe in town. Which do you think is the case here, because it can’t be both.

[Porkens]

Pod, I dig all of that, but that "big play" never pays off in any universe. I'm not trying to be difficult, just say in your own words, IF IM TOWN, what was I doing and why, just as I've stated it? You don't have to believe it, just articulate it, please, so I know I've made myself understood.

at the risk of feeling like im using meta, my experience with you as a player makes me believe that you would lackadaisically hammer and feign disinterest/accident/not paying attention as scum

I might, but that’s clearly not the case here. What happened here is bad town play but it would be unreasonably horrible, game throwing scumplay I’m not

that

dumb.

[Porkens]

I say clearly not the case because it wasn’t lacsidasical, disinterested, or feigned accidental

[Porkens]

maybe the team is auro/starbuck/farside/porkens

that'd be spicy

See now you are thinking like me.

[Porkens]

Like you said, the payoff to setting up that false dilemma is real: two mislynches and two nightkills. To me, as town, the claim has similar feels like 3p lylo: I’m not going to just believe starbuck is town because she says either me or farside is scum. So I have a healthy suspicion of it. Farside on the other hand just slaps her vote down and walks. That’s saying “well I know starbuck is town and so it has to be porkens”...but she should t know starbuck is town.

Now that I believe starbuck that’s where I’m at. I feel a lot better about the situation, but I’d be clear if we lynch farside, and maybe that way even draw a nightkill, só that’s why I’m fighting.

I understand what you are saying about the shade, although it’s more of an accusation. And like I said: it’s probably tru, but she brought her IRL into the game, and put it in play. Also, since I believe Starbucks explanation, I’m seeing her post in a scumlight, so I stand by what I said.

[Porkens]

Her explanation this morning of why she withheld her information makes sense. She did make an effort to sort farside, and townread her theough the end of the day (I believe). She had an associative read from ABR that made her less likely to be nightkilled, and she didn’t want to define day one with her revelation.

[Porkens]

My role PM has a different little phrase than the example at the top. That made me think it was perhaps a clue to the hidden mechanic. That’s all I was referring to.

[Porkens]

Upon which you jumped and for which you called me a hero.

[Porkens]

Starbuck, why would I go out of my way to look scummy in this game? Or do you think your vision of scum-me thought what I did would look protown?

So you think I made up all that reasoning, thought process, and emotional states that I wrote in my long post?

[Porkens]

Do, not so

[Porkens]

She brought it into the thread and the game, not me.

There was 0 chance of lynching ABR over Auro. It makes no sense for me to start a countereagon as scum. I feel like you are ignoring my explanation where I detail what I thought and how I felt at every stage. Do you think I could make that all up from whole cloth?

[Porkens]

Again, I do not have a revelation.

And again, it is not an appeal to emotion, it is an explanation of my actions, which were based on my emotions. I’m not trying to make you feel sorry for me, I’m trying to illustrate where my mind and feelings were at when I did those actions.

Yes it’s a mess, but it’s not a mess caused by me trying to build an impossible counterwagon on ABR to somehow save auro.

[Porkens]

[Porkens]

Hey farside. I didn’t say you said you were ghosting - I said it was a good setup to ghost, but I’m glad you are not.

So the info you have makes starbuck look town. Hmm. What % confidence would you place in that?

[Porkens]

let Me put that another way, does the information you have give you and reason to think she is NOT town?

[Porkens]

Any not and

[Porkens]

VOTE: Porkens

Reck do you think I make myself look that scummy for a 0 chance to save auro as scum?
Do you think I make up that long post explaining my actions from whole cloth?

[Porkens]

Hey farside. I didn’t say you said you were ghosting - I said it was a good setup to ghost, but I’m glad you are not.

So the info you have makes starbuck look town. Hmm. What % confidence would you place in that?

My info is not like hers. It does say vt and in the pm it says i know x info in the game.[/vote]

In the event that I am lynched first, when I flip town, how would you suggest the town proceed?

P.edit rec, you are not addressing the substance of either issue and just say “wifom” and “self meta.”

In your view I fought against the leading wagon, trying to get ABR lynched, which was an impossibility, and quickhammered because I was counting on the wifom to look town. Wouldnt it have looked more town to just keep my fucking mouth shut when I was townread?

As for self meta, can you say with a straight face that you read it with any attention? I explained in detail my thought process and my emotional state. That is not self meta. I talked about my meta but I was not saying at any point “this is what I always do let me get away with it”. I y’all you step by step through why I did what I did. Read it carefully and tell me you think I could make that up.

[Porkens]

At farside:

Hey farside. I didn’t say you said you were ghosting - I said it was a good setup to ghost, but I’m glad you are not.

So the info you have makes starbuck look town. Hmm. What % confidence would you place in that?

My info is not like hers. It does say vt and in the pm it says i know x info in the game.

In the event that I am lynched first, when I flip town, how would you suggest the town proceed?




At rec:
P.edit rec, you are not addressing the substance of either issue and just say “wifom” and “self meta.”

In your view I fought against the leading wagon, trying to get ABR lynched, which was an impossibility, and quickhammered because I was counting on the wifom to look town. Wouldnt it have looked more town to just keep my fucking mouth shut when I was townread?

As for self meta, can you say with a straight face that you read it with any attention? I explained in detail my thought process and my emotional state. That is not self meta. I talked about my meta but I was not saying at any point “this is what I always do let me get away with it”. I y’all you step by step through why I did what I did. Read it carefully and tell me you think I could make that up.

[Porkens]

Farside, let’s each put our knives down for a second and talk about starbuck. If you win this tug of war and get my lynched, I’m flipping town. I am not 100% convinced that means you are scum. I’m fairly confident, but there’s at least a 25% chunk of my brain

half of his half, your scum and I’m keeping my knife

that starbuck is trying to run the table on us. So I’ve been trying to think what if I win the tug of war and farside flips town?

Have you had any similar thoughts? Have you come up with any solution?

[Porkens]

That hammer was premature. I am not impressed with your performance Porkens.

you just have to take my word for it but I was about to unvote and Porkens dropped hammer so bad it should be illegal for town

He knows I’m town

I love to be scum against you, that's for sure. When you shoot us in the foot like this.

Albert knew.

[Porkens]

So, who are we going to gargle today?

[Porkens]

Uggggg it’s not self meta...

Lol hammer bro

[Porkens]

God that game made me happy

[Porkens]

My role PM has a different little phrase than the example at the top. That made me think it was perhaps a clue to the hidden mechanic. That’s all I was referring to.

[Porkens]

Farside, let’s each put our knives down for a second and talk about starbuck. If you win this tug of war and get my lynched, I’m flipping town. I am not 100% convinced that means you are scum. I’m fairly confident, but there’s at least a 25% chunk of my brain

half of his half, your scum and I’m keeping my knife

that starbuck is trying to run the table on us. So I’ve been trying to think what if I win the tug of war and farside flips town?

Have you had any similar thoughts? Have you come up with any solution?

It's hard to imagine. I don't know if SB is the type to try to find a way to lynch 2 town players without some info that says she would be safe from anything else. Like when I flip town, there could be an investigative role that checks her. Which I would suggest.

Farside’s claim that her*

Just role related info.

I claimed as much as I'm going to. Lynch Pork tomorrow when I flip town. I'd say go after Agar too with trying to tie 2 players together with a lot of wifom post.
MT and Clap for sure.

Starbuck, do you have any thoughts you could share on the bold part above?

[Porkens]

Thank you, mostly that sounds fine but one follow up:

If one of us flips town, why should the investigator check the other instead of checking you?

[Porkens]

But isn’t it objectively better to check you in order to rule out the scum/scum/town configuration of this arrangement?

[Porkens]

I guess it doesn’t matter which of us they check. I’m 90% sure farside is scum here, and invest should be on whomever. In that 10% corner case that she flips town I think one of us should be investigated, but I don’t think it matters which one.

[Porkens]

except I suppose for the .001% chance that starbuck and I are scum together and this has all been another brilliant gambit.


P. Edit rec: I disagree on both points. The abr wagon was never ever going to go anywhere and I don’t think you’ll find a single player here who would honestly say they thought Albert had a chance of being lynched.

And again, it’s not ate. I am not appealing to your emotion. I am spewing my actual feelings and decision making process to the best of my ability. I’m honored that you think I could put on a performance like that as scum, but the level of detail precludes that from being bullshit IMO.


P. P. Edit AHHHH QUICK HAMMER THERE WAS TIME LEFT IN THE DAY YOU AWEEW HOW COILD TOU AHHH NOT EVERYONE POSTED AND HAD A CHANCE TO DOTHER AHHH. THE SKY IS FALLING ETC

[Porkens]

I loved this game and I’ll always remember it <3

[Porkens]

I caught VPB on page 12, I caught auro on page 14, and I had the town choose between one and the other by page 22. Hoopla, Llama and others helped me seal the deal in one of the fastest day 1s I've played in the last year.

The setup wasn't town-sided, we just outplayed by far. Reck did well at the end and the Gamma track was excellent.

Whatever, you didn’t even want to eliminate VPB day 1 even though I told you how scummy he was, don’t try to front.

[Porkens]

Holy shit. I don't get a single well done or any respect, only insults for an epic Day 1 performance. You should all feel bad about yourselves for being ABR Greatness Deniers.

My teasing was intended as a compliment fwiw

[Porkens]

Your performance was OK.

I’m genuinely touched, thank you for saying so.

[Porkens]

You know what?

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

Porkens isn't the hero we deserve, but he's the hero we need right now.

all right, blair makes me brave, i don't want to keep holding my vote, ill try this wagon

VOTE: albert b rampage

These really helped me by the way, thanks. And thanks to MT for checking in too.

[Porkens]

Yeah I feel like we should take a group photo or something

[Porkens]

2nd

[Porkens]

I am sorry farside didn’t have a good time though

[Porkens]

f-- huh