My PM has something different for the bold. It's two words. I'm interested to know if this is different for everyone...?In post 1, Vi wrote:~NAME~
Welcome to Mafia of Revelations. [REDACTED].No backing out - you're playing this game now.
Your faction wins when it is the only one remaining in the game, or nothing can prevent the same.
Please confirm via PM with the name of your role. The game thread can be found here. I wish you the best of luck.
Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!
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Porkens Survivor
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Yeah I always hated that showIn post 58, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Since most of you are freaking old btw, did you guys see that Hyde from that 70s show got arrested for raping 3 women?-
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Fun Fact! iamusername was scum in my ver first newbie game! I claimed VT in my first post and lost with the rest of the town!
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=8737-
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The best scum find perfectly logical reasons to lynch town.In post 102, Auro wrote:Willful inaccuracy and unfairness are, in a way, a necessity for scum who have to craft reasoning to push players they know are town for.
You said you would do a meta check to assess if my current style of play was a commonality across games: have you?
Do you plan to do the same for Morning Tweet, to see if she follows the pursuit of cuteness in other games?
I don't think either of these meta assessments would take more than a few minutes, and considering that the results could probably shift the trajectory of your game solve pretty hard, why not do them yet?-
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What do you mean the conclusions are inaccurate? When I’m scum and get town lynched, it’s because they are scummy and logically should be lynched. That’s no different from when I’m town. Your theory that mafia always use poor logic to drive mislynches and achieve their win com is just wrong.In post 120, Auro wrote:
Indeed they can cleverly craft seemingly legitimate and logical reasons, but the conclusions are still inaccurate. there's bigger subtleties when this happens, for example their ignoring certain parts that, as town, they wouldn't, etc.In post 119, Porkens wrote:The best scum find perfectly logical reasons to lynch town.
Logic is NAI.-
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This pings me as too worried about something pretty silly. Do you really feel unfairly judged by the cutemob speculation game?In post 135, Starbuck wrote:
Could I not just want to be confident in myself and share my cuteness, too? Or is that a crime? Like I don't get your angle, dude.In post 131, Kmd4390 wrote:But I even gave you my reason-
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No, I haven’t misunderstood. You have failed to articulate.In post 138, Auro wrote:
You misunderstood what I said.In post 132, Porkens wrote:What do you mean the conclusions are inaccurate? When I’m scum and get town lynched, it’s because they are scummy and logically should be lynched. That’s no different from when I’m town. Your theory that mafia always use poor logic to drive mislynches and achieve their win com is just wrong.
I didn't say poor logic. I didn't say unsound logic. I said inaccurate logic, in that the conclusions are inaccurate. It's not a theory - it's a fact.
To make a very crude example, a player makes 5 scummy posts and 3 towny posts. It's not unsound to make a case based on the 5 posts. However, the reality of this can be that this player was town, and theaccurateread a competent town player would have gotten in this scenario would be to correctly weigh those posts accordingly; versus a scum player in the same position who'd instead build that sound-looking case.
Town people naturally tend to project that they're town in high content scenarios.
Besides, because the best scum players can feign legitimacy very well doesn't mean that reading people based on bad logic is an unreliable metric. My experience suggests that this is difficult to fake especially as you get into more "holistic territory" like in my example above, and I've managed to catch competent scum this way.
I don't think I've expressed my thoughts on this very well, but can talk about it in post-game anyway
The basis on which I get you lynched are the same regardless of alignment (mine or yours). Those reasons are “accurate” despite how you flip. You were scummy, thus you swang.-
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This is minimizing.In post 139, Auro wrote:
I think kmd420 is the type to take everything literally and at face value, and interpret motivations as such.In post 137, Starbuck wrote:I'm not feeling attacked, though. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.-
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Nah nah come on I’m asking a real question about your mind and rescissions. You just said you were thinking about opening gimmicks, I want to hear more about that process don’t brush this off pleaseIn post 158, Morning Tweet wrote:
"look at all the cute players!! i want them!!!"In post 155, Porkens wrote:MT what was your thought process when deciding to employ an opening gimmick?
probably something like that-
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ScumIn post 187, Hoopla wrote:i've enjoyed llamarble's fervent insistence on cutting through the dense layers of jokes and naval-gazing theorycrafting permeating our early-game. actual attempts at analysis? how refreshing!
he's been the one player that's done the most to push the game forward, and on an intuitive level, his reads roughly mirror what i am seeing - especially at the extremes. my biggest disagreement is that of the early game cuteness harvesters/alliance seekers, morning tweet seemed least sincere - or at least, seemed to be opportunistically using the screen of jokes-y cuteness to shield herself from potential early scrutiny.
i don't think abr's opening is suspicious for him. he's a polarising character that is always going to attempt to reinvent the wheel in some way or another early in the game, and probably as either alignment.
kmd has the unfortunate habit of presenting himself as a target. i say "habit", because it appears self-imposed to me. i have to reign in my suspicion of him, because i think he always looks scummier than he actually is.
farside also looks town to me.-
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As scum I often feel safer just posting my thoughts like that rather than ask questions or get into a back and forth. Don’t you find that a less risky way to participate?In post 198, Kmd4390 wrote:Yall are gonna have to explain why that's a scum post from Hoopla. Looked like she was just posting her thoughts.-
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I like it too.In post 203, Hoopla wrote:
one of the lamentable things about intuition is converting those subconscious rumblings into words. here's an attempt:In post 197, Morning Tweet wrote:don't know how to respond to this sort of criticism. Is there something that seems insincere about it? Sure i couuuld be playing a gimmick so i don't have to pretend to scumhunt or so i can "avoid scrutiny", but also i could just as easily try to fake a bunch of reads and put on my towniest face if i were scum
is there a specific reason you think that's what's happening here?
pedit: your intutition is off then !
opening games tend to fragment into themes - jokers/questionnairers/wagoners etc. alliance crafting/cuteness riffing seemed like the dominant theme on page 1. i expect that scum upon observing the main narrative, tend to play along with it, as its the safest entry into the game. the continued adherence to the established running joke being an exercise in avoidance. a shield, if you will.
Now pounce! Who’s going along to get along?-
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Again this pings me...In post 233, Hoopla wrote:
piecemeal observations and catty potshots from sidelines is my day 1 modus operandi - at least until i have collected enough data for proper meta-analysis.In post 225, farside22 wrote:So why not push him if your feeling this way? Or push those you don't have reads on?-
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I love this post.In post 279, Hoopla wrote:
i think of it less as buddying, and more like an intricate dance. we're moving at the same tempo and in the same direction; perhaps even listening to the same song. there's a small part of me that hopes it will last forever, but the cynical part of me knows its fleeting.In post 272, Green Crayons wrote:Im trying to figure out if you’re genuine or buddying.
until the illusion shatters, i just want to have this dance.-
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Why you leave MT?In post 251, VP Baltar wrote:UNVOTE: MT
VOTE: iamausername
I just spent a game as scum fighting against Blair's instincts to save my team. No one in that game would really follow her and she screamed into the void for many pages. She ended up copping two of them.
Blatant sheep here. Come at me if you don't like it.-
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Exaueeze me? To what stab do you refer?In post 333, Blair wrote:
It's early to partner hunt him, but if I had to, I would expect at least one on-wagon early bus and at least one off-wagon detractor.In post 330, Llamarble wrote:Blair who are IAAU's buddies? Who definitely isn't IAAU's buddies?
On-wagon: Could be VP Baltar. He felt the need to over explain why he was sheeping me. Could denote self consciousness.
Off-wagon: Porkens or Llamarble. Porkens took a direct stab at the wagon based on IIAU's post count. Llamarble indirectly did the same by bringing it up under the guise of helpfully describing the wagon.-
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In post 384, Untrod Tripod wrote:here's one: Reck saying "oh, UT is probably scum here", me saying "yeah but I'll NK you later bb" and them him saying "okay I'll leave UT alone til Day 3" is the dance we do when we're both town or both scum
lynch one of us to find out which it is!
spoiler alert:we're both town
oh no, you have me doing self-meta. bad UT.Get a room.
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Summarize your scumread based on her iso please.In post 426, Starbuck wrote:
This is true. My RVS vote on Reck was stale and it was time to switch it up. Does that make me hypocritical? I probably should have just FOS'd, tbh.In post 421, CantHateAPuppy wrote:but your vote on blair didn't come with any questions either
Reading Blair in ISO shortly after, though, actually confirmed for me that my vote is where it should be right now, so I'm pretty ok with that.-
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I'm doing a terrible job this game, and I've recently realized that I've completely forgotten how to scum hunt (I think I knew back in like 2017ish but it's gone now - if anyone can recommend some reading I'd appreciate it)In post 482, CantHateAPuppy wrote:
saw this post because of MT's 473. do you really think that vpb is playing a scumgame here? i dont want to get too meta-ready but he seems a little more unfiltered than he did in our last normal, at least enough to outweigh anything like early day 1 weak associativesIn post 333, Blair wrote:
It's early to partner hunt him, but if I had to, I would expect at least one on-wagon early bus and at least one off-wagon detractor.In post 330, Llamarble wrote:Blair who are IAAU's buddies? Who definitely isn't IAAU's buddies?
On-wagon: Could be VP Baltar. He felt the need to over explain why he was sheeping me. Could denote self consciousness.
Off-wagon: Porkens or Llamarble. Porkens took a direct stab at the wagon based on IIAU's post count. Llamarble indirectly did the same by bringing it up under the guise of helpfully describing the wagon.
THAT BEING SAID
This post is scummy to me because it's coaxing suspicion if that makes any sense.-
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There’s another game around the same time or even concurrent where I just lurked through the whole thing. I regret using “tilt” as a lever for a game. It’s possible to win that way but it’s pretty selfish and mean. That was at the height of my revulsion at the country. It was a fun scum chat though. Amazing that you can win that way (or get elected that way)In post 800, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm going through Porkens games, in Taz mafia where he endgames town as scum he sets out in pre-game to exploit Reckoner to tilt him into a freakout.
Interesting read if you're trying to sort the pork.-
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My apologies, I can't figure this out. To whom does this refer?In post 531, Green Crayons wrote:
I don't dislike that he joined a D1 bw for momentum. I think wagons in D1 are important and I don't think it's AI to help generate/propagate a D1 wagon for wagon analysis benefits later on.In post 517, Llamarble wrote:I am aware my characterization was an imperfect condensation; thought it might trigger you to elaborate a bit more on the specifics of what you liked but wasn't sure.
That he then turned around not too much later and said "actually I read the bw target as town" presents a pretty open play style (as he's done with his other reads), but (1) his willingness to recognize that it's mostly gut (in contrast to his paragraphs of town reads on others) and (2) that it it's an immediate whiplash from his bw vote, speaks town to me--these are "contradictions" (for lack of a better term, as I just woke up and my mind is foggy) that a scum would rather just avoid than need to justify.-
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In post 531, Green Crayons wrote:
I don't dislike that he joined a D1 bw for momentum. I think wagons in D1 are important and I don't think it's AI to help generate/propagate a D1 wagon for wagon analysis benefits later on.In post 517, Llamarble wrote:I am aware my characterization was an imperfect condensation; thought it might trigger you to elaborate a bit more on the specifics of what you liked but wasn't sure.
That he then turned around not too much later and said "actually I read the bw target as town" presents a pretty open play style (as he's done with his other reads), but (1) his willingness to recognize that it's mostly gut (in contrast to his paragraphs of town reads on others) and (2) that it it's an immediate whiplash from his bw vote, speaks town to me--these are "contradictions" (for lack of a better term, as I just woke up and my mind is foggy) that a scum would rather just avoid than need to justify.In post 534, Llamarble wrote:
Are you accusing me of confirmation bias? Because sure, I'm experiencing some of that, on top of simply wanting to be correct, to see the red flip justify my mental pattern match.In post 522, Auro wrote:There you go. And no, that type of observation about VP Baltar is not inferable from current play.
You will not like any vote of mine - either it will be a difficult read and thus comfortable, or an easy read who you find towny, or an "easy read that's scummy" (to you) that's, again, comfortable for me.
See: you're fitting my play to a scum agenda, without actually solving my play. You're adding the "what would I do" lens to every action of mine.
A certain amount of confirmation bias and excessive confidence are also necessary - it's important for me to influence the lynch instead of letting scum have 4 players worth of say in it.
But that being said, making sure the actions of the player I want to lynch are reasonable from scum are how I escape the confirmation bias if I do have it wrong.
And I haven't seen a reason to escape my bias.
And it is 100% possible to at least vaguely estimate the difficulty of lynching different players.
There's both a general order of lynch difficulty and an order of mislynch difficulty and I don't think either is hard to approximate.
You can figure out wagon-stickiness too. Generally an even keeled, low-moderate effort player who won't explode at people for wagoning them is a more viable D1 mislynch.
Especially if they aren't extra pro town or highly charismatic.
VP seems like a moderately difficult mislynch, but if people do decide he's scummy I don't think he'll produce the kind of ultratowniness moments that would make people flashwagon somebody else at deadline.
Auro also seems like a pretty difficult mislynch; is active and transparent enough that if he's town it would have shone through by now.
Hoopla and Reck are very difficult to lynch as either alignment.
Starbuck is the type to potentially get lynched, but is also volatile enough that for this particular game the wagon doesn't look like it will amount to much.
ABR is similar to VP, maybe a little more likely to go down, a good player but difficult enough to read that people might get him wrong D1 and very unlikely to ultratown and shake a wagon off.
MT seems somewhat mislynchable, but appears to have moderate volatility.
etc.What the actual fuck are you doing? I just read this whole fucking game and get more and more excited that, shit, ABR has a live one! We're gunna fucking Lynch scum day 1 in a huge awesome game! And then I get to the last page and YOU UNFUCKING VOTE THE WAGON THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DRAGGING UP THE MOUNTAIN FOR 18 FUCKING PAGES BECAUSE AURO TILTED YOU? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
GET YOUR GOD DAMN VOTE BACK ON VPB YOU DO NOT GET TO ABANDON THIS.
VOTE: VPB-
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as for YOU, when the FUCK did you start reading VPB as town?In post 872, Auro wrote:Also, if you guys lynch VPB after me and he flips town: quicklynch ABR.-
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Sure:
Spoiler:
[/quote]
This one obviously was pertinent.-
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No my major reason was NOT "because ABR said so."
I said "ABR caught a live one."
I just finished reading to this point and I have notes that I'll turn into a reads list now, but that unvote really tweaked me so I'm just spewing.
Somewhere, vaguely, in the back of my mind, I remember someone (spyrex?) telling me that when someone gets run up to l-1 or l-2 but then the wagon falls apart, it gets a lot harder to wagon them a second time and scum can use this by bussing a partner to the edge and then letting the wagon dissolve.-
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First of all, every time I think about this game, this song starts playing in my head:
Spoiler:
Please consider it the soundtrack to this post.
Answers to Auro and Llamarble:
Spoiler:
some social stuff:
Spoiler:
Reflections on the game thus far:
Spoiler:
QUESTIONS for several people:
Spoiler:
And here's a weird fucking reads list for you:
Spoiler:
But Porkens, WHY VP YOU DIDNT EXPLAIN YOUR READ EEUEUEUUEUEEGHHH
Spoiler:-
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FUCK I misremembered NEVER MIND Adjust Rek from CG to NGIn post 1, Vi wrote:Hawt New Game Mechanic Rules:
1) A Revelation. Some players begin the game with additional information about the game setup.All but one of these players are Town-aligned.Players that have additional information are not considered power roles and will not flip differently from how they otherwise would.
2) Another Revelation. This is a hidden mechanic within the game.-
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@ABR that is a shitty sideways response to a fair, straightforward question.
On ABR v VP,
On closer inspection, this is looking more like Blair v Starbuck where neither side comes out looking great. VP’s accusation of OMGUS is flimsy. “You are on a wagon with MT” mathematically approaches “you are wasting your vote” but never actually gets there.
On the other side, the counterattack to that very same point is overblown. Furthermore, ABR’s refrain of “he’s desperately trying to look town, c’mon guys pile on” Is desperate in and of itself. The fact is there just isn’t much substance to this case.
Initially, I was going to end this post with “fine people on both sides, but we’ll will see what happens.” Instead, however, I’ll propose this hypothesis:
Revelation, Porkens 3:16;
Spoiler:-
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So after all that posting calling VP scum, you unvote, and ask me what makes me “certain”.In post 985, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
What I'm certain of is that we need to put pressure on strong scum players. Auro and VP Baltar have red flags but aren't confirmed scum. I need information. Why is your certainty level so high?In post 981, Porkens wrote:See you keep arguing for things that don’t get VP lynched.-
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