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Wraith Mafia Scum
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> Creature
> Gamma Emerald
> drealmerz
Well this is awkwardShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
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[ONGOING GAME] where I antagonized people, especially drealmerz
Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Don't think I'm allowed to talk about that until that game is overIn post 36, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Do you have meta on them that might be useful?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Care to explain your original logic in the first place?In post 77, Creature wrote:
Oh nvm, that does not confirm singleball.In post 67, Ircher wrote:How does that confirm singleball? (Although, that is badly worded imo.)
Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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I agree. Assuming 9 scum right off the bat implies foreknowledge of the setup, which in this case means scum. It's also such an absurd ratio that it would have to mean multiball.In post 106, Ircher wrote:
And, the reason for this totally useless nonsense is _____?In post 86, Debi wrote:TheRealGin-N-Tonic, there is something I'm failing to understand to do with your current actions in the round. You have voted to lynch Pine, which is all well and done, at this point in the game, 99% of the votes, won't have any ulterior motive behind them whatsoever, which is fine, if you don't have any main reason to be voting for Pine. However, you have currently created a contradiction, when trying to prove that your vote on Pine is legit, and has reasoning. The main problem with it, is as below:
You are claiming that it is very unlikely, for both you and Pine to both be scum in the same game, however the roles are chosen randomly, and I believe in a random order. So just for the sake of it, lets say we had 10 towns in this game, and 9 scum, it is unlikely but go with it. If Pine was first to get a role, then you, there'd still be a high chance of you both being scum:In post 60, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:It might be one-sided on Pine's side considering he's only made one post showing he's online but stopped saying anything afterwards, however on my end, to give you context to the vote, I recently played a game as an IC and Pine had day talk as scum and manipulated me throughout the game till I sided with him in LyLo and lost the game for town and said I'd vote Pine every game we play together that has daytalk.
I'd love to be able to tell mods in advance what roles to give Pine and I but the likelihood of me playing a game with Pine and I on opposite factions to set up a grudge vote scum theatre just for this game IF we both happened to roll scum would be a god like miracle. However, as much as I wish that was actually true, it is literally a close to impossible scenario, ergo the most logical conclusion is to not treat it as such and wait for more substance throughout the thread before you think you honestly caught 2/X scums when you're already wrong about at least 1 of them.
For Pine to be Scum: 9/19
If Pine is Scum, For Gin to be scum: 8/18
Therefore, For both to be Scum: Roughly 21/100
So it wouldn't be a 'god like miracle', ever.
Also another thing, when voting for somebody, you might thing they are suspicious or whatever. Therefore I have a question for you. If you are wanting to vote Pine, and argue for the vote on Pine, why are you suggesting he might not be scum via the 'when you're already wrong about at least 1 of them'???
UNVOTE: Alisae
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic
4-5 scum is a more logical coonclusion for the scum ratio. 9 scum in a 19p NORMAL game has probably a 1 in a Million chance AT BEST. (Most likely, there is a 0 zero chance of that happening cuz that makes Day 1 LyLo and could still screw town w/ a perfect game if it's multiball)
4/19 * 3/18 = 12 / (152 + 190) = 12 / 342 = 4 / 114 = 2 / 57 or <4% chance.
VOTE: Debi
Vote: DebiShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
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In her second post of the game, using a 10 town/9 scum ratio as basis for a hypothetical is extremely unusual.In post 120, Creature wrote:
Implying there's 9 scum and Debi knows that?In post 119, Wraith wrote:Assuming 9 scum right off the bat implies foreknowledge of the setup, which in this case means scum.
Frankly in a closed setup, that isn't a draft, and is a Normal, setup speculation right off the bat is not all that viable considering the majority of town players are going to have absolutely no information on the setup. So why bother unless you already have inside information?
So my primary conclusion is that Debi likely has some kind of setup foreknowledge to be making such a hypothetical so early. My secondary is that if Debi has setup foreknowledge, then her hypothetical implies that her foreknowledge is that the game is multiball. But the secondary can't be confirmed until she flips.
Either way the primary is enough for me to put down an initial vote.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Trying to think if there are any Normal town-aligned roles that might have setup foreknowledge.
There's Mason, but Mason wouldn't have info on the number of scum or scumteams in the game. Same with Neighbor or Neighborizer.
Outside of those I don't think there's anyone and I don't think there's Informed roles in Normals?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Eh, yeah it could be a "culture shock" kind of thing since we know her regular forum isn't dedicated to the game like this one is, and so we don't know how they make setups or if they're balanced or what.In post 127, Creature wrote:I think Debi just made a dumb assumption rather than showing actual knowledge.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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@Debi: IIRC normal ratio for singleball is 1/4 scum-to-town.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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They're not mutually exclusiveIn post 140, Ircher wrote:
And this is also just bad. It's not extra info, it's just absurd assumptions to try to get someone lynched. Huge difference.In post 119, Wraith wrote:
I agree. Assuming 9 scum right off the bat implies foreknowledge of the setup, which in this case means scum. It's also such an absurd ratio that it would have to mean multiball.
Vote: DebiShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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OH GOD OH JESUS
THE NEW PAGES OVERNIGHTShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Trying to catch up quickly before I leave for work.
Ircher and Grey's votes for me are misguided but at least have logical motivations. Alisae's though, makes no sense.
In post 206, Alisae wrote:
Am I not allowed to ask if people care about my stance on the game?In post 202, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Why are you asking for permission? Just do it if that's your thing.In post 200, Alisae wrote:Should I give reads now?
Pine and Gin are my stronger townreads.
Uzi is probably town
Zach gun to my head town
Wraith townlean
Ircher townlean
Debi Null
Dunn scumlean
Creature Scum
Kyouko Scum
Anyone else null
Rather quick 180.In post 239, Alisae wrote:
You got my vote thenIn post 237, EchoVision wrote:
What's not a slip, what debi said about the 10:9 or whatever? Nah, that was just human error. Just her trying to prove her point. I've done the same kind of thing before. No scuminess behind it.In post 232, Alisae wrote:Echo are you saying it's not a slip in this case?
VOTE: Wraith
And if #387 is the extent of her elaboration:
Yeah, wee-oo wee-oo wee-ooIn post 387, Alisae wrote:
Voting a scumread.In post 385, -Grey- wrote:
So, is this a sheep vote or are you voting a scumread?In post 239, Alisae wrote:
You got my vote thenIn post 237, EchoVision wrote:
What's not a slip, what debi said about the 10:9 or whatever? Nah, that was just human error. Just her trying to prove her point. I've done the same kind of thing before. No scuminess behind it.In post 232, Alisae wrote:Echo are you saying it's not a slip in this case?
VOTE: Wraith
The lack of clarity in your posting is what has me happy to lynch you.
Well, that and the fluffing, and buddying, of course.
This sequence is also really bad:
In post 463, Alisae wrote:
I'm tryng to lynch Wraith. He is my own scumread.In post 462, Pine wrote:From her position on the short end of a big wagon, this looks like appeasement. Town doesn't try to appease, they try to lynch their own readsIn post 465, Alisae wrote:And Yeah no, I'm not buying that shit Pine.
Especially since people haven't posted.In post 467, Alisae wrote:16 people have posted in this thread, 2 of which don't really have that notable content (AA and the other dude who has only one post). And there's Zach.
If you're scum, you're trying to end the day quickly so that hopefully none of your scumbuddies fucks you over.In post 471, Alisae wrote:BTW I still don't TR Pine as much as I did anymore, but the fact he stepped back from that seems okay I guess.
Pine's reply in the middle of it sums up my feelings on it.In post 474, Alisae wrote:Either way, I think your scum on my wagon, since you didn't want the other people to get a chance to post content.
And fine, I'll stick to my guns some more.
VOTE: Pine
Going to bed, if I get lynched, look at Pine and Wraith.
I also don't like rb's entrance to the game.
In post 246, rb wrote:I skipped the first 10 pages. Someone who's town tell me where to voteIn post 247, rb wrote:
Dumbest townread reason I've ever readIn post 59, Alisae wrote:
Nah, I doubt this. I'm TRing Pine for that fake dayvig (assuming it is fake).In post 58, Creature wrote:Looks like scum theater.In post 248, rb wrote:We should lynch Alisae or GinAnd is apparently still on about a Gin wagon. Not sure where that suspicion comes from but again I'm just skimming right now.
Ircher, Echo, and Grey are quick townleans from me. Yes, still Ircher even though others have pointed out he's probably wrong for the same reasons I was. His reaction there felt town to me.
Unvote
For now, I was probably premature in making a judgment so early as several players have pointed out. Hopefully I have time to put in a more in-depth re-read after work but I have a busy and stressful few days coming up that I have to prepare for as well. Right now Alisae shot up the suspect list. But since she's apparently at L-2 by page 15 I'm not putting a vote down until I do actually do that in-depth re-read.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Still haven't gotten a chance to do a thorough re-read yet but I've been generally keeping track of the thread since this morning.
Alisae still seems scummy but I was starting to get the feeling it was too easy, so I'm agreeing with Creature who (I think?) said we shouldn't lynch lynchbait today.
I did a skim of RB's ISO an hour or so ago and definitely agree with Grey that this:
Legit looks like a scumslip.In post 309, rb wrote:
and if you wanna just tell me your other scumbuddy now that's fine tooIn post 307, rb wrote:
this bad push is going to have you both lynched on days 1 and 2 respectivelyIn post 287, Alisae wrote:Also I can't decide if RB is town or scum.
On one hand he could be trying to derail the Wraith wagon by attacking two of the people that are on it.
On the other hand, would scum really do a push so bad on both me an Gin?
That said, I'm rather skeptical this game is multiball. I speculated possible multiball earlier because Debi's absurd hypothetical scenario could only be multiball, and it legit felt like a slip itself. But in hindsight now I definitely think I read way too much into some rather noob-y early hypothesizing.
But I'm skeptical that this would be a multiball game because 19 seems like too small a total for that. I figured multiball games would pretty muchhaveto be in the 20+-player range. Then again, this is only my second real large game since returning to playing games after 5 years, so I'm potentially just out of touch here with how game size meta has changed.
So I'm pretty heavily leaning toward joining the RB wagon when I get home and have a chance to get through that re-read.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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@Grey: I said I'm skeptical it is, not that I'm discounting it as a possibility completely. And that skepticism is based on pure player numbers and meta opinion that is in all likelihood badly out of date. I'm basically bowing to the players who obviously have more expertise here.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Alright so I'm finally back and underway with my promised re-read.
I'm starting to doubt my doubts about Alisae not only for his recent posts but also something in particular from earlier that I'm now noticing.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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This will mostly be stream-of-consciousness, except for the following.
The first big thing I'm noticing now is Alisae's #59:
Firstly, I think it's garbage to TR someone for an extremely early and obviously fake Dayvig. Secondly and more importantly, are Dayvigs even considered a Normal role? The wiki says a Vigilante is considered normal if their kill flavor is distinguishable from the scum's, but does that mean a Dayvig is considered Normal? I'm skeptical, the Dayvig role is extremely powerful for a normal IMO even if it was just one shot, which almost certainly wouldn't be wasted by the player who has it within the first dozen or so posts. So this comes off to me as a really fake way of expressing a townread.In post 59, Alisae wrote:
Nah, I doubt this. I'm TRing Pine for that fake dayvig (assuming it is fake).In post 58, Creature wrote:Looks like scum theater.
The second and even bigger thing with Alisae is her sudden 180 on me from townread to scumread, which I mentioned at the time rubbed me the wrong way big time. She townreads me for a really vague and weak reason in #206 and #215.
In post 206, Alisae wrote:
Am I not allowed to ask if people care about my stance on the game?In post 202, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Why are you asking for permission? Just do it if that's your thing.In post 200, Alisae wrote:Should I give reads now?
Pine and Gin are my stronger townreads.
Uzi is probably town
Zach gun to my head town
Wraith townlean
Ircher townlean
Debi Null
Dunn scumlean
Creature Scum
Kyouko Scum
Anyone else null
She never really elaborates on what "gun to my head town" means. Then she turns around and votes me in #239.In post 215, Alisae wrote:Ircher is just asking for people's stances and honestly right now I feel like he's playing his town game. He wants to understand where people are coming from.
Dunn I don't like he said Debi was one of his strong town right away. Seemed like he was trying to buddy Debi.
Wraith is currently gut. He's probably also one of my "gun to my head town" reads.
But the thing is, I make no new posts between #206 and #239. She is convinced to change her vote to me (a wagon that gained momentum pretty quickly relatively speaking) for a reason that she had already seen and filed away as a reason to TR me instead. So a short exchange with Echo convinced her otherwise? I don't buy it.In post 239, Alisae wrote:
You got my vote thenIn post 237, EchoVision wrote:
What's not a slip, what debi said about the 10:9 or whatever? Nah, that was just human error. Just her trying to prove her point. I've done the same kind of thing before. No scuminess behind it.In post 232, Alisae wrote:Echo are you saying it's not a slip in this case?
VOTE: Wraith
This is what is making me more confident in joining the Alisae wagon than the RB wagon at the moment, since Alisae's slip is more play-related while RB's relies purely on setup speculation.
I'll continue my re-read and post a more stream-of-consciousness summary next.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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* Starting to share the opinion several others have already expressed that Creature immediately trying to peg the game as Singleball looks a little off. It took him until someone called him out on it and fifty or so posts to realize he was apparently mistaken?
* Alisae not reading the rules and voting Gin in #46/48 for mentioning scum daychat is another strike against him. It wouldn't look bad by itself but combined with the more egregious posts by him (JFC I keep writing "her" because of the username and avatar)...
* Ircher's RVS vote on drealmerz reminds me that dreal still has yet to post in this thread. Is he the only one left?
* I agree with Pine's #85 where Creature accusing "scum theater" (weak to begin with) and then unvoting Gin shortly after because a couple players called him out for it looks bad.
* I definitely misread Debi's #86 and gripped too hard to a fundamentally wrong conclusion. I thought she was legit setup-speculating but she was just proposing a really out-there hypothetical where Gin+Pine could feasibly end up scum together. It wasn't an accusation. My bad, my bad hard.
* Creature's logic in #103 seems sound for me which is why I gave him a pass for the Singleball speculation. Still...I dunno
* Now seeing my egregious mistake re: Debi I think Ircher fell into the same trap in his #106. Plus I've liked/understood the motivation for a lot of Ircher's posts since then. Ircher is one of my stronger townreads at the moment. He was right in that it was needless fluff though, I don't really know why Debi brought it up in the first place.
* Kyouko's #173 is a little odd. She says my vote on Debi is a "good vote" (I assume he's being sarcastic). But he completely ignores Ircher, who voted earlier than I did for an identical or almost identical reason. What?
* Gin comes off as a voice of reason a lot.
* Don't like Alisae's #225
* Echo is another of my stronger initial townreads. His #230 is part of that.
* As of the last five pages IIRC Debi never acknowledged my early attack on her, but did for Ircher. This strikes me as odd. This referring to her #242 in particular which reminded of this. Which in that post it's also odd that she is in fact assuming multiple scum factions. Gin points this out immediately after which is another reason on the pile to townread Gin.
* I've already said that RB's entrance to the game rubbed me the wrong way pretty strongly and I still don't like it. Him going after Gin doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and looks bad, especially since this re-read has definitely reinforced my townlean on Gin.
* Though RB's #278 is good. More reason to prefer the Alisae wagon over him ATM.
* I have another strong initial townread for Grey. His early posts (#290-325 range) are what planted the seeds for that and he's been goodposting ever since.
* Which makes RB's sudden turn against Grey in #315 look mad suspect to me
* Alisae's scumread on Dunn in #363 is garbage. It was garbage to begin with, and it's even worse later on here.
* So I checked the front of the thread just in case and Kyouko is suddenly scummy to me. He horribly miscounts the Alisae wagon in the present somehow (#678) (where she claims Alisae is L-1 but is actually L-5), and I swear I remember her also doing this earlier in the thread. I'm right - #368 (less egregious, she says Alisae is L-2 but she is actually L-3). In fact, it those posts were her two most recent ones. What's going on here?
* As of #384 RB is seriously just throwing out accusations with zero explanation. It's not scumhunting at all but he seems convinced Gin is scum for no adequately-explained reason and then pegs people with guilt by association, also for no reason.
* I've already mentioned RB's possible slip from #309 which Grey points out in #395
* Gin's #397 evenmorereason to townread him
* Alisae STILL clings to the garbage Dunnstal scumread as of #409
* RB with the non-answer ad hominem to Grey's insight in #410
* Dunnstral returns in the #410-430 range. Would be nice if he elaborated on some of those reads.
* In #434 Alisae labels Debi VI without that much to go on and then draws scumreads based on that label. Inherently flawed logic leading to flawed conclusions which looks like fake scumhunting to me. This is the difference between players who get legit scumreads on me (Grey, Ircher, Echo) and players who don't, and is another big part of why I strongly scumread Alisae
* More goodposting from Gin in #442
* I still don't know what Alisae means by "'gun to my head' townreads"
* Alisae's #450 more bullshit reasons to townread someone. These are fake-ass reads.
* As of #455 Pine's reads line up with mine which is a good sign, but he hasn't posted/overtly scumhunted enough for me to be comfortable is townreading him yet as opposed to Grey, Ircher, Echo, or Gin
* The exchange between #457-474 looks even worse now than it did to me at the time. So Alisae's scumread on me in the first is odd and rather baseless as I pointed out in my last post. She's still clinging to it and claims that she's pushing for my lynch today (weak-ass effort). But based on one reply from Pine she's willing to 180 on her read on him and vote for him instead? And then jumps off and back onto me again after another single response from Pine? And then flip-flops yet again after Pine's shortest reply yet? This is bullshit. Her reads consistently come across to me as fake and her scumhunting/voting doesn't feel sincere at all.
* Interesting to note that in a vacuum I also expressed (joking) frustration at a bunch of pages appearing while absent in #481 but it apparently doesn't come across as a townslip to Alisae, in contrast to what makes her "townread" Echo in #450. I'll have to see how it develops later and come back to this. Human Sequencer does this same thing in #487. Another thing to keep an eye out for. EDIT: Nope, no reaction whatsoever to either. Alisae's reads are FAKE AS FUCK
* RB #491 apparently unwilling to read posts longer than a few lines. How is this pro-town behavior? I mean, he could be joking but come on
* Now that I'm much more confident in my Alisae scumread Creature's labeling Alisae lynchbait and (successfully) trying to derail that wagon looks pretty bad. Yet at the same time it would be extremely risky for him to put his neck out for a buddy so blatantly so I'm conflicted here.
* HS comes out swinging pages 20-21 which is a good sign
* RB being a stopped clock in #552/553
* Creature's #565 isreallystrange. Is he softclaiming a backup role that's not self-aware? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a Normal setup.
* Ircher clearly has a hard scumread on me and won't let go. I honestly don't blame him but don't let yourself get tunnel vision dude. That said his activity page 23 onward is largely goodposting
* Oh yeah GE and dreal both have yet to post in the thread. Any more?
* I generally get townish vibes from HS but he seems to look a lot at Grey for guidance. Which I guess is fine because right now he's my strongest townread
* I disagree strongly with Ircher's #598. If you "Policy Unlynch" all players you classify as "lynchbait" D1 then it gives incentive for scum to deliberately badpost.
* I think I'm comfortable giving light town vibes to Zach as of #504. Seems to be actually scumhunting and reading along in contrast to certain other players
* I don't think it's a coincidence that after Creature's pushing to not lynch players he deems lynchbait and Ircher's #598 echoing the same sentiment Alisae starts actively pushing the narrative that she's lynchbait. More points to HS for pointing that out first
* And after HS switches his vote it seems like Alisae stops bothering to fight and resorts to shitposting and mockingly echoing accusations other players have directed at her
* rb STILL clings to his baseless Gin scumread as of #663
* Even MORE goodposting from Grey #671
* I don't get what Creature is trying to say in #677 at all? How is my last post a "towncase" for Alisae? Why even say that if you're not going to bother elaborating? And yet I'm again torn because there is just no way Creature would stick his neck out blatantly yet again for a buddy at this point.
So so far
Townreads
Grey
Gin
Echo
Ircher
Soft Townreads
HS
Zach
Pine
Murky
Creature
Kyouko
Debi
Scumreads
Alisae
RB
Fucking finally caught up. Pretty damn confident in putting my vote here
Vote: Alisae
I'm pretty okay with a RB lynch too but definitely prefer this one.
Taking a long break.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Okay I'll take your word for it.
You miscounting votes as a longshot way of delaying an Alisae wagon until derail while simultaneously being on the wagon as a means of distancing was theory I had in my head but it was admittedly areallytinfoil one.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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^@Kyouko BTWShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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That is actually just how drealmerz is. I can't really talk about that meta though since that game is still ongoing.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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What I mean is I'd go into much more detail about it but can't.In post 753, Dunnstral wrote:
you sure are talking a lot about the thing you can't talk about.In post 747, Wraith wrote:That is actually just how drealmerz is. I can't really talk about that meta though since that game is still ongoing.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Fine, I'll just stand by over here I guess while this flashwagon starts.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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LA of sorts until Sunday or Monday. I have a very stressful series of exams and interviews over the next few days that will be demanding my full attention.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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LA of sorts until Sunday or Monday. I have a very stressful series of exams and interviews over the next few days that will be demanding my full attention.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Oh wow I'm further behind than I first thought. I completely missed the Innocent Child announcement.
I'm going to have to do another big catch-up post after this weekend is over.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Catching up again. I skimmed earlier and got a decent idea of what's happened. This will be another stream-of-consciousness post.
* I echo Dunnstral's sentiments in #810 on Creature's #799. Just saying "I've got a gut feeling" doesn't really tell the rest of us a whole lot. Please cite specific posts that give you this feeling. Or failing that, please just try to elaborate on how you've come to this "gut feeling."
* At first I didn't agree with the flashwagon on All Alone purely for returning from lurking and voting with no comment. Even when he continued doing that, I felt that it was a red herring - if he was scum and that was all he was going to do, he was playing the stupidest possible scum game I've ever seen. WIFOM aside, I'm just not buying that he takes that risk. This flashwagon felt rather scum-motivated to me, and I feel there was at least one, maybe more, scum who jumped on this opportunity among those who joined it - Dunnstral, Creature, Alisae, Echo. EDIT: The second flashwagon on him, forming after his Ircher vote, is much more justifiable and null IMO
* I also echo Grey's sentiments in #824 on Alisae's #822, and this is yet another instance on the pile of what I feel is completely empty, insincere fake scumhunting by Alisae. I really don't know why the wagon on Alisae has derailed because they've done nothing to dispel any of the problems people including myself have had with them. I'm going to outline everything I have against Alisae all at once either at the end of this post or in a second one immediately after it
* Ircher's #832 is nonsense. "Self-aware lynchbait" is practically synonymous with "scum trying to fake being VI"
* Ircher's #837 is a serious stretch and is probably the first thing that's come up that makes me doubt my townread of him. So far.
* It's annoying that I now know rb is confirmed town because although it means I can trust his word retroactively it also means he was deliberately half-assing it or playing like shit on purpose in order to lure scum votes or something. Which backfired entirely because practically half the playerbase put down votes on him before he was forced to reveal his role.
* I honestly don't know why everyone suddenly shifted to Pine after rb was revealed to be IC, so I'm going to have to re-read his ISO after this. It doesn't help that no one has bothered to explain why they turned on him and to my memory freaking Alisae was the only one who made accusations against him earlier.
* Ircher asking for a breadcrumb and then freaking voting for rb after a mod confirmation is incredibly stupid and served no other meaningful purpose than to give out free reasons for scum to point fingers at him and get away with it. Again, like All Alone's content-less votes this is an action so reckless and short-sighted that I don't think it is actually scum-motivated. EDIT: Uzi on the same page with me in his #903.
* FINALLY someone delivers a justification for their shift to Pine. Thank you Kyouko, now I have something to look for when reading Pine's ISO.
* Those votes by Alisae (yet a-fucking-gain) and All Alone in #912 and #914 on Ircher were incredibly scummy and opportunistic. Also rofl @ Creature's #915
* SMH at Alisae's #933. When I do my compilation of everything I have against Alisae I'm going to bring up the vote patterns. They're wishy-washy and opportunistic as hell.
* All Alone's #968 holds no weight because he's never bothered to explain how he decided to place his earlier votes in the first place
* Grey's #999 - mate, you need to stop dwelling on a statement I already clarified, where I promised to re-read and then when I did so placed my vote somewhere else entirely because of new information
* I don't agree with AA's Gin vote in #1001 but he at least explains his reasoning behind it. A lot of other players could do with following his lead in this case
* I think HS's #1007 is rather scummy. It's misinterpreting Creature's #793 in a way I feel is deliberate. I don't think it's a smart idea at all to lynch a lurker D1. A flip of a player who has interacted with no one and contributed nothing gives us little to nothing to go on in light of a flip.
* Creature seems rather preoccupied with pushing lurkers. Nevertheless agree with his push on GE at the time since it did get results after all.
* Count GE's #1026 as another "omg so many pages gosh" reaction that Alisae probably won't view as a towntell for someone (EDIT: NOPE). Apparently Echo is the only one who gets this special treatment from Alisae, how interesting.
* Oh boy here it starts. I'm just going to say this now: When dreal gets excitable or stressed, his posting style getsextremelygrating and difficult to read, like word/formatting/punctuation vomit. If it gets bad enough I might start ignoring his posts entirely.
* #1049 Yeah I wonder why you're saying this Alisae. Oh wait.
* Zach my man with #1051
* Alisae's #1067 JFC kill it with fire. And in response to their #1069, Slick's point is that your wishy-washy voting shows a lack of real conviction and a propensity for blowing with the wind, which combined with your instances of fake scumhunting that I've pointed out in the past is just ridiculously scummy
* Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Creature's #1076 pushes him into the Soft Scumread pile for now. I get not liking lurkers and prod-dodgers, but at the same time there's no real case for voting most of these people outside of the lurking and again, a lurker flip D1 would give us nothing in terms of context or interactions. With his #1081, he is at least self-aware about this, which weakens my slight scumread of him.
* All Alone's #1084 JFC dude
* All Alone has a point in his #1086, even though I agree with the post AA is dumping on. It would have helped if Slick had spelled it out
I'm going to lay out a reads list in a different style, going down the player list and giving individual reads and why:
1. rb - CONFTOWN, obviously. Please stop shitposting/half-assing it and make better contributions, please.
2. Alisae - Top SCUMREAD. I'll lay out all the specifics together in my next post.
3. ssbm_Kyouko - NEUTRAL. I appreciate that she actually gave out her reason for voting Pine but I don't have much on him at the moment. I'd probably need to review his ISO but I need a break soon.
4. TheRealGin-N-Tonic - TOWNREAD. One of the town's consistent voices of reason IMO.
5. Lil Uzi Vert - NEUTRAL. No offense but he's practically been a complete non-entity to me. I guess the most I can say for him is that I feel we're on a similar page?
6. Gamma Emerald - MURKY. Has done nothing since returning from a long spat of lurking. Come on, man.
7. Zachstralkita - TOWNREAD. Generally speaks sense, and it's a good sign that I perceive him as the type of player who can say a lot with a little.
8. Creature - SOFT SCUMREAD. If only because the most memorable thing I can say about him at this point is that he has a hard-on for lurker lynches. I don't really know how to gauge him at this point because the majority of his activity is one-liners or extremely vague, confusing statements.
9. drealmerz7 - NEUTRAL. Same old, same old.
10. Ircher - SOFT TOWNREAD. Some of his recent activity has been WTF but his actions are so reckless and draw so much attention that I feel they're largely town-motivated. Strikes me as a townie who will act first and think later, which is nevertheless a really dangerous type of player to the town.
11. Pine - MURKY. Need to review this ISO later before I make a concrete judgment.
12. Human Sequencer - SOFT SCUMREAD. His #1007 was enough to push him into this category from town-leaning neutral.
13. -Grey- - TOWNREAD. Another voice of reason, even though his tunnel vision on me is annoying.
14. SlickDilinger - MURKY. Hasn't done much since returning from lurking. Even though I agree with his sentiments in #1069, I also agree with the sentiments of AA's #1086. Which seems contradictory but trust me it makes sense in my head. I think. I just think Slick didn't elaborate enough on the point he was trying to make.
15. Debi - MURKY. Seems to have disappeared.
16. EchoVision - SOFT TOWNREAD. I've generally agreed with his earlier posts but some of his recent votes are questionable IMO. And Alisae's very unusual TRing him and only him for expressing frustration at rapid thread growth is very unusual.
17. Dunnstral - MURKY. His posts are all over the place in terms of rationality. Sometimes I nod my head approvingly and other times I sigh and facepalm.
18. All Alone - SOFT TOWNREAD. Like Ircher I think his playstyle has been too overtly reckless to be scum-motivated. While several of his posts (#968, #1084) set off alarm bells I'm trusting my gut here for now.
I'll compile the Alisae stuff next.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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My beef with Alisae. This will largely be me copy-pasting all the bullet points from my two compilations with maybe some extra commentary. I just want to put it all in one post.
* Alisae not reading the rules and voting Gin in #46/48 for mentioning scum daychat is another strike against him. It wouldn't look bad by itself but combined with the more egregious posts by him (JFC I keep writing "her" because of the username and avatar)...
* Alisae townreads me in #206 and #215, then scumreads and votes for me in #239. I made no new posts between #206 and #239, the only thing that changed is she talked to Echo. And in light of her future voting patterns, she seems to be getting in on a growing wagon on the ground.
* Alisae gets a scumread on Dunnstral early on for weak reasons (#225) and continues to cling to it over time without wavering and without giving further reasons to maintain the scumread (#363, #409). As much as Alisae spams the thread she does very little to justify or explain her reads in general. I point to #409 in particular where she posts "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched I'll just post my reads with absolutely no context bye now." It reeks of falseness
* In #434 Alisae labels Debi VI without that much to go on and then draws scumreads based on that label. Inherently flawed logic leading to flawed conclusions which looks like fake scumhunting to me. This is the difference between players who get legit scumreads on me (Grey, Ircher, Echo) and players who don't, and is another big part of why I strongly scumread Alisae
* Alisae's #450 is pretty egregious to me. She townreads Echo for his apparent frustration at seven new pages overnight in his #231. Yet she doesn't react whatsoever to other players similarly reacting to sudden surges in thread activity - myself (#481), HS (#487), GE (#1026). Why does Echo get this special treatment? I'll also bring back up the incident where she 180'd on her read of me between #206 and #239, where I made no new posts in between those but what she did do was talk to and sheep Echo. Again, it appears to me that Alisae is coming up with bullshit reasons to read people and that way she appears to be scumhunting, but it reality she's doing nothing and joining the most popular wagon of the moment.
* Has so little conviction in her scumread of me that she'll flip to Pine after a short exchange, and then flips back to me after another, and then flips back to Pine YET AGAIN after another. Again, her scumread on me coming not from herself but from Echo. Oh, and with more "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched overnight" bullshit after the re-vote. This isn't real scumhunting folks, this is the appearance of scumhunting.
* Essentially claims VI after several players have called her lynchbait and continues playing that up even now.
* Joins the flashwagon on All Alone (with Dunnsral, someone she allegedly has a scumread on).
* Openly talks about a pressure wagon on Pine, defeating the purpose of a pressure wagon. Again, not scumhunting, but appearing to scumhunt.
* Joins the flashwagon on Ircher (WITH THE GUY SHE WAS SCUMREADING HUNDRED POSTS AGO)
* Rejoins the flashwagon on All Alone (more justifiable, but again, if she scumreads All Alone WHY DID SHE NOT IMMEDIATELY CALL FOUL ON THE IRCHER FLASHWAGON?)
* OMGUS scumreads drealmerz for scumreading her in #1049
* Pushes yet another flashwagon on Slick
Let's check the voting record - when they happened, who was already on the wagon, and whether or not anyone voted for the same target immediately after she did:
1. Kyouko (#6, RVS)
2. Gin (#46, Creature #23, All Alone #42, probably still RVS)
3. Creature (#63, Gin #41, Pine #85, probably still RVS)
4. Kyouko (#175, probably still RVS)
5. Wraith (#239, Ircher #146, Echo #231, Gin #241, sheeping Echo)
6. Pine (#466, knee-jerk)
7. Wraith (#470, Still Ircher + Echo, Kyouko #303, still a popular wagon)
8. Pine (#474, Creature #497, knee-jerk)
9. All Alone (#820, Dunnstral #816, Creature #818, flashwagon)
10. Pine (#853, Zach #852, Creature #855, Kyouko #890, flashwagon)
11. Ircher (#912, rb #910, All Alone #914, flashwagon)
12. All Alone (#933, Dunnstral #816, Echo #864, Uzi #923, rb #925, Creature #929, Ircher #964, flashwagon)
13. Pine (#976, Zach #852, Kyouko #890, actually a consistent scumread)
14. Slick (#1067, Creature #1076, Uzi #1090, starts a new flashwagon)
So the tl;dr gist is:
1. Alisae town- or scumreads players for extremely shallow and arbitrary reasons or for reasons she fails to adequately explain.
2. Alisae's vote changes practically every hour, primarily jumping on the most popular bandwagon of the moment.
3. Therefore, Alisae is not genuinely scumhunting or trying to contribute, and both her reads and votes both lack any sort of conviction or depth as a result. My conclusion is that she is scum trying to appear to be active and scumhunting but trying to blend into the background of wagons to conveniently shift off blame later.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Why do I have to ask for it? Why are you not just saying it?Alisae wrote:Have you ever thought of asking me to go more indepth on my reasoning instead of just saying I'm scum for it?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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WTF kind of response is this?In post 1115, Alisae wrote:
To understand my reasoning a bit more. Unless you're scum and you don't care about that stuff.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8691308#p8691308]post 1112[/url], Wraith wrote:
Why do I have to ask for it? Why are you not just saying it?Alisae wrote:Have you ever thought of asking me to go more indepth on my reasoning instead of just saying I'm scum for it?
Plus it's not my duty to prove to you that I am town. It's my duty to hunt, find, and lynch scum.
My point is if you are actually trying to scumhunt then you should be posting detailed explanations for your reads with context anyways, without anyone having to ask.
I'm not saying you have to post massive walls of quotes and text. That can be done badly to the point it gets ignored (cough dreal cough).
It's the difference between
andGrey wrote: I scumread Wraith because his post finding rb scummy for apparently scumslipping multiball while also simultaneously being skeptical of this being a multiball setup. Therefore, I'm voting to lynch him.
The difference is that Grey's reasoning for scumreading me comes from a logical thought process that is clearly explained; you have decided Debi is a VI for arbitrary reasons you fail to elaborate upon and then scumread players based on that initial unexplained, arbitrary conclusion.Alisae wrote: I townread Debi for being a VI. I scumread Wraith and Ircher for pushing a lynch on a VI.
And that's just one example of fake scumhunting out of several so far already. And you're trying to paint ME as the bad guy for finding you scummy for this crap?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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In post 1120, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:@Wraith:Could you explain how you got your read on Grey? I don't remember him being a voice of reason so I'd like to know how you got that conclusion.tl;dr He's coming to conclusions based off a clearly explained, visible thought process. Also just general goodposting.
Spoiler: Quote WallShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
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Didn't you hear? Walls are for noobs!Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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I usually do try to format why Walls. It's just these catch-up ones were SoC where I typed my thoughts as I read. Hence the warningShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Repeating my LA until Sunday/Monday
I'm leaving my home desktop for a couple days and we have reports to expect snow this weekend. I might get unexpectedly snowed in.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Just popping in briefly to say I don't agree with the dreal wagon that's starting to formShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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If I'm lucky I should be back home and ready to catch up tomorrow afternoon. If I'm lucky.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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FINALLY back without impending tasks due and I'm going to try catching up 30 freaking pages and counting. This starts at about page 47 and has ended at page 59. This is more grueling than I thought.
* Yeah in hindsight now Slick's #1065 looks pretty freaking scummy, and I agree with Gin and Ircher in that regard. "Not wanting to get in the way" of "strong scumhunting personalities" is no excuse for not scumhunting yourself.
* Not really that sure where the Gin flashwagon came from and I don't like it one bit, at least at the time I read this.
* One thing I remember from before my V/LA is that with Grey replacing out Zach and Gin are looking like the top town voices IMO even though they are ironically arrayed against each other
* I actually like Zach's #1194 even though I disagree with its conclusion and think it relies on a presupposed assumption. Why? Because he's laying out his line up thought in a clear manner, unlike certain other players in this game. But like I said, I think his a chief part of his conclusion here is assuming Alisae is lynchbait rather than scum playing that up.
* Still more garbage from Alisae in #1196. He hates how quickly the Slick wagon arose, but was the first person to actively push him as a flashwagonby name. And then he immediately sheeps Zach for yet another wagon! Are these kinds of contradictions really excusable by the "lynchbait" label? Alisae is clearly not scumhunting, I've said it several times and will continue to say it - and yet "not scumhunting" or "fake scumhunting" were the chief reasons for the flashwagons on Slick and Gin! What the hell is going on here?
* Alisae's clarification in #1202 would make sense...if he hadn't actively pushed Slick as a flashwagon! It's absolutely fallacious to say "hey let's flashwagon this dude" and then object when several people agree with you! And the flashwagon on Slick was the most valid one yet!
* The more I read the Zach vs Gin arguing the more I believe this is town vs town. Both raise valid points but seem to have entirely different perspectives dependent on who they each assume is town or scum. And I'm gonna be honest, I think I agree more with Gin here inGINeralgeneral.
* I think Slick's #1218 is a blatant OMGUS vote he's trying to disguise by simply saying "I agree with Zach's argument."
* I think HS's #1252 is scummy. HS is strongly against lynching Slick but has provided no reasoning why. HS also seemed to be sheeping Grey earlier in the game yet is unwilling to eliminate Grey from a scum PoE list? Cognitive dissonance much?
* My man Zach being sensible in #1319. I think the sudden shift to drealmerz around this point is shady myself. I already hated Creature's "Lynch All Lurkers D1" mentality and it doesn't help that HS is on board with that as well. If Creature-HS-Uzi is really RB's "townbloc" then that's a really shit townbloc.
* I honestly don't know about Creature. I get a gut feeling that he's town based simply on how his posts FEEL (always a reliable indicator of something amirite?) but his Lynch All Lurkers policy being his defining trait so far is not a great sign.
* I think Debi is taking Gin's statement on RB way too narrow-mindedly in #1327. I took Gin's statement there as a blanket statement on the game, not what his personal strategy was going forward. But to each their own. TBH Debi's vote on Gin is one that seems more genuine than the others.
* My viewsgenerallyline up with Creature's in #1344, which is a good sign. The votes on Gin by AA and Slick seem really opportunistic. The vote by Alisae seems both opportunistic and hypocritical. I trust Zach, Debi's vote seems the most genuine of the bunch (well, except for Zach), and I don't know what to think of Dunn at all.
* I agree with Ircher's #1367
* Hate Ircher's dreal vote in #1370
* Echo's Gin vote is serious crap
* #1380 thank you RB
* Dunn suddenly objecting to a Gin wagon in the form of unvoting at L-3 is awfully strange. If you're worried about the lynch reaching critical mass then why were you voting for him in the first place?
* Ayy Gin realizing in #1406 what I realized a while back praise be
* #1407 "Reaction Test" my ass. Such a test that you didn't do much in explaining the results of your test.
* Aaaaand Alisae proceeds to flail when Gin presses him on his "reaction test," or pretends to flail. Does anyone really still think this is genuine lynchbait?
Sotl;dr up to this point:
* Slick has slipped into strong scumread category. I should have ragged on his #1065 more the first time but I got tunnel vision because Slick was anti-Alisae
* Alisae still scum
* HS still slippin
* Dunn and Echo have dropped
* Debi has risen
* Ircher, Gin, Zach still strongest townreads
I have company over so I'll have to get back to this tomorrow.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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JFC 10 pages since I started my re-read?
Spoiler: Notes
Okay I'm up to page 72 now. I have to lay out a current reads status to keep myself on the same page
Spoiler: Reads By Player
Spoiler: Reads By Category
The immense number of lurkers in this game is not helping at all.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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OMFG did you guys actually lynch Gin
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLEShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Oh thank god
THEN STOP SELF-VOTINGShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Continuing from page 72
Spoiler: Notes
Up to page 83 now.
Spoiler: Reads By CategoryShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Continuing from page 83. Want to take a break but fuck it let's get this shit over and done with.
Spoiler: Notes
I'm really conflicted. That claim attempt alone is enough to make me want to vote Gin now. But I really, really hate the company on that wagon.
Townread
rb
texcat
Zach
Creature
Soft Townread
GE/Titus
Ircher
Dunnstral
All Alone
HS
Neutral/Murky
Kyouko
Debi
Pine
drealmerz
Soft Scumread
Uzi
Echo
Scumread
Gin
Slick
AlisaeShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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@mod: Votecount pleaseShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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I think my biggest problem with you was my tunnel vision re: GinIn post 2318, Human Sequencer wrote:
out of all the things you could townread me overwraith wrote:* #2218 I'm starting to see why a lot of people are townreading HS
you choose this
what the fuck lmao, not sure if read fabrication or just ???
But I was putting you in that category because of a few bad vibes I got way back. It's been like several hundred posts since then. Scummier players are bumping you elsewhere in my reads.
That and you're actually one of the few players citing specifics for your reads.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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ALISAE HAS CALLED HIMSELF LYNCHBAIT ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS SINCE YOU LABELED HIM AS SUCH AND IN FACT HAS EXPRESSED SCUMREADS ON OTHER PLAYERS FOR "PUSHING LYNCHBAIT" (REFERRING TO HIMSELF)In post 2353, Ircher wrote:
Since Nadroj's game finished --- The difference between drealm and alisae is that alisae feels genuine and the questionable stuff from his iso seem more subconscious.In post 2303, Wraith wrote:Continuing from page 72
Spoiler: Notes
Up to page 83 now.
Spoiler: Reads By Category
Drealm is however on purposely playing like Low-Hanging Fruit (he admittted such in fact).
Thats a huge difference.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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So we got a VC in #2389 and I'm preparing to vote Gin.
I'm catching up BTW if that wasn't clear already.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Yeah and it's very obviously fake. AA said it best:
I also think Zach's case is a decent one when (finally) viewed altogether. And those aren't the only two reasons.In post 2401, All Alone wrote:In post 2254, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'm just using my vig shot on you, I dont care if I die claiming a power role, you're a worthy shot.In post 2265, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I'll self hammer at this point but lynch these slots lynched with fire after I'm dead.
SELF-HAMMERING IS NOT A TOWN VIG PLAYIn post 2275, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Remember, the those 3 pushers of my lynch, also Echo. Let's end Day 1 please.
VOTE: Gin
SELF-VOTING IS NOT A TOWN VIG PLAY
FAKECLAIM DETECTED, EVERYONE GET YOUR VOTES ON GIN
It's tough because the wagon on Alisae is starting to gain steam again and rightfully so. But I'm putting more priority on the terrible, obvious fakeclaim.
Unvote
Vote: GinShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I mean if most of the players agree this is the path we want to take then I'm fine lynching someone else today (IIn post 2572, Titus wrote:Slick is an existing candidate.
The Real Gin and Tonic is nit. He's a provable PR claim.wonder who?). Thing this fakeclaim by Gin seems incredibly obvious to me and I don't want to let it slide based on just a couple of people who buy into it.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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IIRC it is because Vigs in Normal games must have a kill flavor distinguishable from other factions.In post 2576, texcat wrote:
Gin's role is not provable. You have to assume that this is single-ball, that there is no SK, that there isn't a vig that isn't counter-claiming, that there isn't a vig that isn't a x-shot. No matter how many kills there are overnight, it won't prove Gin's role.In post 2575, Titus wrote:
Then the evidence will fail to come in day 2. If there's no additional corpse, we get information about the roles scum have. Plus, we force scum to block the vig.In post 2573, Wraith wrote:
I mean if most of the players agree this is the path we want to take then I'm fine lynching someone else today (IIn post 2572, Titus wrote:Slick is an existing candidate.
The Real Gin and Tonic is nit. He's a provable PR claim.wonder who?). Thing this fakeclaim by Gin seems incredibly obvious to me and I don't want to let it slide based on just a couple of people who buy into it.
If Gin is scum, then, we still have the data from the push and no extra kill will appear since scum vigs are blacklisted in normals.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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But at the same time it would be easy for Gin to claim "Roleblocked!" when his kill inevitably fails to go through.
With that in mind I think we lynch scum here and now. Letting him live another day just gives him a free pass for a claim that will never be definitively settled.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Gin is obviously town to you. Gin is obviously scum to me.In post 2580, Titus wrote:
Then we lynch him day 2, after he claims who he tried to shoot. We'll have his green flip with information about scum.In post 2578, Wraith wrote:But at the same time it would be easy for Gin to claim "Roleblocked!" when his kill inevitably fails to go through.
With that in mind I think we lynch scum here and now. Letting him live another day just gives him a free pass for a claim that will never be definitively settled.
Of course, Gin is onviously town so...
Why won't you lynch SD?
And I've already expressed a ready willingness to lynch SD today, in case you missed it. I just prioritize Gin and Alisae more highly at the moment.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Past Me: No way did I misread that that egregiously.In post 2697, Ircher wrote:
no, there CANNOT be separate kill flavors.In post 2577, Wraith wrote:
IIRC it is because Vigs in Normal games must have a kill flavor distinguishable from other factions.In post 2576, texcat wrote:
Gin's role is not provable. You have to assume that this is single-ball, that there is no SK, that there isn't a vig that isn't counter-claiming, that there isn't a vig that isn't a x-shot. No matter how many kills there are overnight, it won't prove Gin's role.In post 2575, Titus wrote:
Then the evidence will fail to come in day 2. If there's no additional corpse, we get information about the roles scum have. Plus, we force scum to block the vig.In post 2573, Wraith wrote:
I mean if most of the players agree this is the path we want to take then I'm fine lynching someone else today (IIn post 2572, Titus wrote:Slick is an existing candidate.
The Real Gin and Tonic is nit. He's a provable PR claim.wonder who?). Thing this fakeclaim by Gin seems incredibly obvious to me and I don't want to let it slide based on just a couple of people who buy into it.
If Gin is scum, then, we still have the data from the push and no extra kill will appear since scum vigs are blacklisted in normals.
/derp
>checks
OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE
Now there's zero reason to let Gin slide here IMO.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I really don't know where you get the vibe that Alisae is playing genuinely when he says "I really, really want a [Texcat] lynch done" and then hops off and on at a whim.In post 2694, Ircher wrote:
Self-aware doesn't change the genuine feel of the posts. Again, Alisae feels like he is playing genuine whereas Dreal is just obfuscating, etc. on purpose to avoid getting metaread and to "trap" players into lynching him implying he is much more skilled than he trues to imitate.In post 2565, Wraith wrote:
ALISAE HAS CALLED HIMSELF LYNCHBAIT ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS SINCE YOU LABELED HIM AS SUCH AND IN FACT HAS EXPRESSED SCUMREADS ON OTHER PLAYERS FOR "PUSHING LYNCHBAIT" (REFERRING TO HIMSELF)In post 2353, Ircher wrote:
Since Nadroj's game finished --- The difference between drealm and alisae is that alisae feels genuine and the questionable stuff from his iso seem more subconscious.In post 2303, Wraith wrote:Continuing from page 72
Spoiler: Notes
Up to page 83 now.
Spoiler: Reads By Category
Drealm is however on purposely playing like Low-Hanging Fruit (he admittted such in fact).
Thats a huge difference.
You're probably not wrong about dreal though but that's just dreal IMOShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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IIRC you were on the right track with your initial insight. It essentially means a scum player who has a town PR "in their pocket" - a town player with power and influence who won't doubt their alignment and will vouch for them if pressed.In post 2680, texcat wrote:
I still think that Alisae admitted that she had been posting not what she legitimately thought. She says here that she legitimately thinks. That implies to me that her other posts were not what she legitimately thinks. I think that's a scum tell.In post 1553, texcat wrote:
I must not understand what "pocket" means. Or one of us doesn't??In post 1541, Alisae wrote:Like I legit think you are trying to pocket rb.
I thought it was like when a mobster has the police sergeant in his pocket, meaning the police sergeant will do what the mobster tells him to. But Pine isn't trying to tell Rb what to do, it looks exactly the opposite to me. Pine is asking Rb what to do. I hate it when people throw around jargon that I don't understand.
And it bothers me that Alisae threw in the word "legit" here. It's as if she's admitting that her other posts are not what she legitimately thinks.
VOTE: Alisae
[and one of us still doesn't understand "pocket"]
At least, that's from what I've personally gathered.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I think you're scum and not the Vig, so...In post 2737, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Wraith, I'm shooting Echo. Are you okay with that?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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In my opinion, yesIn post 2740, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Are you saying I'm mafia?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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You asked about you, not your teammatesIn post 2744, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:You are saying I am aligned with the mafia, which is part of a team who has other members with the same win coin?
Who your teammates decide to shoot after they're dead is their decisionShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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*You're deadIn post 2745, Wraith wrote:
You asked about you, not your teammatesIn post 2744, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:You are saying I am aligned with the mafia, which is part of a team who has other members with the same win coin?
Who your teammates decide to shoot after they're dead is their decisionShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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See I have the opposite problem here. I'm wondering where this speculation that he can't be scum and MUST be SK if he isn't the Vig is coming from.In post 2753, Dunnstral wrote:Gin is either serial killer or vig. He's not mafia.
I don't care if he's serial killer right now if he just shoots lurkers ands cummers. Lynch someone elseShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Do claimed Vigs also threaten to use their shot on someone before begging everyone to vote them and then self-voting?In post 2758, Dunnstral wrote:scum don't claim vig. We're not lynching him today, we're seeing what happens. That's all I have to say.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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AM I GOING COMPLETELY MAD?!
So the claimed Vig threatens to use his shot on HS the following night, and then actively pushes and votes for his own lynch? And then we'retelegraphing his Vig shot in advance?
In the theoretical scenario where Gin is telling the truth and he is the Vig, and he believes he is shooting scum in Echo, why should we possibly believe scum will just allow this to happen? If we're speculating Vigs and SKs and god-knows-whatever, is it so much of a stretch to speculate that the scum have a Roleblocker handy?
How is thisPOSSIBLYpro-town activity?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4168
- Joined: May 29, 2010
- Location: Central Party-Ruining Committee
Holy shit Grey was scum all along?
I need to stop and reevaluate right now before I blindly run myself off a cliff.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4168
- Joined: May 29, 2010
- Location: Central Party-Ruining Committee