NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[Kop]

ok, I'm back from V/LA, so I should provide actual information.

I do want a quicklynch, not because I am scum or I am trying to troll town as town, but I do believe that creating tons of pages of speculation of why he/she is scum is terrible when we can get more information by going to night. By such we can learn:

If this is multiball with or without SK.
Scum won't have much information to PR Hunt, meaning the better chance for a Crosskill (If multiball) or just a random kill.
Investigative roles can get an investigation in without danger of getting Roleblocked or Killed.
The day 1 recap won't be as boggy when we get flips, so we don't have to skim through 50+ Pages of bullshit for a town lynch.
Day 1 won't be flooded with Ika's nonsense (Lynch wake lynch wake lynchwake) and Boon's trolling. They are most likely to play the game with some flips to work with.

I'll look back and provide my thoughts, but I do believe a quicklynch is optimal.

Whilst I do see what you are saying, it starves us of information going into the night, into what roles can use on over the night. I.E who people suspect for cop roles to investigate, who is the pro town player for doctor to protect, etc etc. And if we want a quick lynch, we could be rush lynching a town PR.

[Kop]

Whilst I do see what you are saying, it starves us of information going into the night, into what roles can use on over the night. I.E who people suspect for cop roles to investigate, who is the pro town player for doctor to protect, etc etc. And if we want a quick lynch, we could be rush lynching a town PR.

@Kop shit entrance. any reads?

I haven't finished reading through yet. Will post my thoughts once I have fully caught up.

[Kop]

Oh god game going so fast already.
VOTE: boon

You know you want to vote him.

UNVOTE: boon
VOTE: redff
Why not

UNVOTE:
VOTE: texcat

Don't buy the sal vote.

Oh god game going so fast already.
VOTE: boon

You know you want to vote him.

UNVOTE: boon
VOTE: redff
Why not

UNVOTE:
VOTE: texcat

Don't buy the sal vote.

This is an FoS as well BTW.

First big game ive been in, in a while. Second all time. It's alot faster paced than I'm used to. I'll go ahead and CLAIM VT. All I have is my vote so I'm using it.

I concur with Wolfie's FOS, and why the unnecessary claim?

Why not?

[quote="In post 364 or keep being meh?

Probably this.

Maybe it will be good for my town meta variance.

Maybe scum won't believe I'm VT.

Maybe not.

I've been town like my last 4-5 games, just trying to mix it up this time.[/quote]

On mobile, sorry for bad format.

I'm aware, but it's enough to consider the replace inconclusive.

thats what i meant if your responding to me. i think i jsut did wording fails

anyone want to tubo lynch SW so we dont have to get a replcemtn?

Sure I'm down for a quick D1 lynch

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TSO

I don't agree with wanting to turbo lynch a slot because that slot wants a replacement. That isn't town intentions, it's more like policy lynching.

Are we going to hear any inputs into these votes? Instead of just throwing votes around and seeing what sticks.

[Kop]

Oh god game going so fast already.
VOTE: boon

You know you want to vote him.

UNVOTE: boon
VOTE: redff
Why not

UNVOTE:
VOTE: texcat

Don't buy the sal vote.

Oh god game going so fast already.
VOTE: boon

You know you want to vote him.

UNVOTE: boon
VOTE: redff
Why not

UNVOTE:
VOTE: texcat

Don't buy the sal vote.

This is an FoS as well BTW.

First big game ive been in, in a while. Second all time. It's alot faster paced than I'm used to. I'll go ahead and CLAIM VT. All I have is my vote so I'm using it.

I concur with Wolfie's FOS, and why the unnecessary claim?

Why not?

[quote="In post 364 or keep being meh?

Probably this.

Maybe it will be good for my town meta variance.

Maybe scum won't believe I'm VT.

Maybe not.

I've been town like my last 4-5 games, just trying to mix it up this time.

On mobile, sorry for bad format.

I'm aware, but it's enough to consider the replace inconclusive.

thats what i meant if your responding to me. i think i jsut did wording fails

anyone want to tubo lynch SW so we dont have to get a replcemtn?

Sure I'm down for a quick D1 lynch

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TSO

I don't agree with wanting to turbo lynch a slot because that slot wants a replacement. That isn't town intentions, it's more like policy lynching.

Are we going to hear any inputs into these votes? Instead of just throwing votes around and seeing what sticks.[/quote]

And that turbo lynch is also in aimed at IKA for stating that.

[Kop]

If TSO of all people was lynched today, that would be suuuper interesting.

How would it make it interesting?

[Kop]

go a problem with tubo lynching?

The only time I will agree with a turbo lynch, is if they have been confirmed as scum to prevent WIFOM from that slot, in aim to muddy the waters.

I don't agree with turbo lynching is just for the sake of lynching someone.

[Kop]

I'm not a fan of claiming too early, unless your pretty much bang on to be lynched. He claimed well before votes were drawing onto him.

I'm not saying that he is scum based on that, I played in a game with Gray a month or so ago, and I think he got the same attention, and in the end he was policy lynched due to it being near the deadline. I feel that the same is happening again here, I would actually like to see him input some reads, and some of his thoughts instead of ramming his VT claim out there in hope that we believe that.

[Kop]

I'm not a fan of claiming too early, unless your pretty much bang on to be lynched. He claimed well before votes were drawing onto him.

I'm not saying that he is scum based on that, I played in a game with Gray a month or so ago, and I think he got the same attention, and in the end he was policy lynched due to it being near the deadline.

Which game are you talking about? I don't remember playing with you in the last month or so, or being policy lynched at all.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=62705

My mistake, it wasn't policy lynched, you used your role to duel with Kaboose and lost.

[Kop]

Never the less, glancing through that thread, he was more into it, getting his reads out there, and wanted to find scum.

Slightly different, in regards to this game.

[Kop]

Confscum? That's very extreme. Explain why you're so sure of him being scum?

Go read 109 and tell me how it's not scummy.

1. The "are we out of RVS yet" is blah. What's the point in asking that (hint: there is no point). It's making conversation to make conversation, and playing dumb.

2. Why would Ozgin be worried about TSO at all if Ozgin was town? Only scum need to be worried.

3. Listing every possible date they are away from the computer is something I see scum do who are very careful about their activity level. They want it known in public well ahead of time when they are gone so they don't get criticized for low activity or lurking.

That doesn't alone say that he is confscum, if that was confscum, he'd be lynched right now. This is your opinion, not stated facts.

Ozgin stated his reasons why he is worried about TSO, that alone doesn't state that Ozgin is scum, it's stating to everyone that TSO can be a player that could pick out thought out reasons to why he has pushed somebody to be lynched, and we won't look deeper into it because majority were in agreement with it. So in basic terms, TSO finds a fault big enough to convince the lynch, nobody looks further into it and if he is scum, he's bought a lynch whilst not looking bad in the process.

Listing the dates, away man, is that something you are going to try pin that on him? I'd rather someone say when they won't be on, rather than just slithering into the back ground and hope nobody notices, do you honestly believe that scum would go as far as advertising they won't be here on such and such a date? What does it buy for them? They could easily just fall out of view in these size games because focus could very well be on something else and nobody would think any different if that person didn't post at all. The only time that people notice, is if they read back and the person hasn't posted in days is to when focus turns to them.

[Kop]

Listing the dates, away man, is that something you are going to try pin that on him? I'd rather someone say when they won't be on, rather than just slithering into the back ground

I would rather so too. My point isn't he'll be away.

My point is he listed it all out well in advance when most people just tell the mod right before they go on V/LA.

If Ozgin has done this before as town I'll feel better.

I have only participated once in a game with Ozgin, and I honestly don't remember him doing that in that game, he was town in that game. So it could be a case in point to what your making, but I wouldn't use that as a reason to pin something on him.

[Kop]

And why do you keep saying I'm "hyper-aware" of my activity level? Like it's abnormal to know my birthday, birthday/grad party date, and the day I move into college?

Of course everyone is aware of their personal schedule. The hyper aware part comes from telling that to everyone ahead of time so they don't think you're lurking with no excuse.

It makes you come across (to me, I guess since that's what I do as scum) as concerned about people interpreting your activity level.

The point you are making is for yourself, the way I am seeing it, youve harped on about it enough how you do it when your scum.

So I'm guessing since we haven't seen you yet post when you are going to be offline, your town right? Or if you post it in the future of this game, we can automatically policy lynch you as you are scum?

[Kop]

This PR isnt something mafia care about today.

Someone ask areo the definition of Neighborhoods

Why would mafia not care about this PR? Would you like to elaborate your point here, because as far as I think about SW role, surely with her questions to the mod, she can gain information, to something that mafia won't want her to get, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

[Kop]

Spiffeh, let me play devil's advocate for just a moment.

If Anna was scum, why would she post so strangely? I don't see the scum motivation to drawing that much negative attention to oneself

. On the other hand, is there town motivation behind doing that either.

I don't like that argument, that alone I won't/don't buy. If you play scummy, then surely your up for the lynch, regardless of that argument alone.

If we were to use that argument then scum could easily post so scummy nobody wouldn't give it that much attention, as why would scum be that silly?

[Kop]

Kop, that is a fair interpretation of the question. However, I was asking Spiffeh. Why did you jump in on my question to him?

Purely because I had my opinion, to which I wanted to put it out there.

[Kop]

Wake's early posting was fine but as the game progressed there are just a lot of things I like to call "words without substance" statements that are starting to become more and more present in his posts. Some examples:

I'm inclined to agree with this, assuming the person joining the vote isn't giving a reason, or a weak or very similar one. HOWEVER, if two players are voting someone for nearly the same reason, it'd help if voter #2 at least gave his or her own reasons, instead of just saying 'what he said,' or a brief line that encapsulates exactly what voter #1's reasons were.

If someone's sheeping here, they should talk more, so we can better break down where that individual lies, by checking a lot of his or her thoughts.

We can assume there is at least one anti-Town entity in the game. That much is certain.

Without evidence, we can't say it's for sure multiball, but we shouldn't automatically assume it's singleball, either.

Especially when you try to imply others are Town based off of that assumption.

It may be that SW is a Serial Killer, and Redff is Blue Scum. Or, the two could be any combination of three possible non-aligned scum forces. THEN AGAIN, and I know some may incorrectly call this WIFOM but I want us to use logic here, they could both be on the same scum team. One could be Town; they could both be Town.

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't start implying people are Town on the faulty assumption that this is singleball. It is way too early to start making conclusions.

Setup speculation: #1 way scum can be vocal without having to actually make stances. He could have just said the bolded; the whole post was unnecessary and seems like an attempt to appear contributing when it's just saying a whole lot of nothing.

Engaging is productive. Shinobi engaging with me was productive, in that I feel I can trust him just a touch more. Your refusal to really talk with me about the game isn't automatically going to make me distrust you, but it's not going to help me trust you, either. We should be active and talking and sharing our thoughts and challenging each other. By not doing that with me, even if it's to utterly uproot my points, deprives Town of information to utilize. If there were only two options, one being you completely destroying my points openly by posting, or two saying it's irrelevant and saying it's not productive, I'd rather you choose the former.

[0001] Gamestate At the present moment, I'm not certain what the Setup is. Unlike TSO, I don't think it is prudent to assume one way or another right now. I think we should keep the possibilities open in the back of our minds. It may be singleball, or it may be two 3-player Scum teams with Daytalk and a Serial Killer. Without further evidence, we cannot deduce further. What must not be done, is assuming the Setup is one way, and then deciding someone's alignment based on that assumption. It's a Closed Setup, with an unknown number and quantity of Scum factions, and, iirc, this game may not even be balanced. It could be sort of like my Freshwater Frenzy, which made full use of the new guidelines. Whatever the case, let's... let's keep an open mind and err on the side of caution. My nature is to suspect the worst and, even if it's not nearly as bad, player under those worst of conditions. Meaning, should we win and it not be the worst case scenario, splendid.

More setup spec.

All of these posts serve no purpose other than to take up room and contribute to Wake's protown resume without him actually doing anything beneficial to the town. Wake is such a strong believer in engagements between players but his "engagements" have yielded no results in the form of reads or votes. I could not tell you where Wake's head is at right now, which worries me for someone who talks such a big game. Even when I actually see him engage with other players I don't think it's fruitful to the discussion and seem like throwaway questions more than scumhunting (looking at post 460 here).

So since no one is wagoning Annadog for reasons I am unaware of I'll hop on the Wake wagon.
VOTE: Wake

I see your point about Wake speculating about setup, but don't forget that TSO kinda did it too. I know it's not much as Wake speculating, and it's at a different degree but I'm just purely putting it there because it's almost the same thing.

I also feel like saying that Aeronaut seems like the sort of guy who would play a straight enough game. He's not a crazy mod. It's likeliest that it's singleball, but it might be multiball. But I can nearly guarantee it won't be multiball + SK.

[Kop]

Besides the more that I think about it all, why is posts about speculations of set up being discussed ON DAY ONE, we haven't seen any of the night actions, which would give us a further insight to what could be in this game. Posts like that, is an attempt to look pro town and your trying to find scum.

VOTE: wake

[Kop]

Spiffeh, let me play devil's advocate for just a moment. If Anna was scum, why would she post so strangely? I don't see the scum motivation to drawing that much negative attention to oneself. On the other hand, is there town motivation behind doing that either.

Why would Grayfox so blatantly not be playing his town meta if he was scum?
"Why would this person act so scummy if they were scum?"

Anything can be boiled down to a WIFOM argument which is why they hold no weight. Is this really your basis for not scumreading Annadog?

Anna is still null to me. I'm talking with her in the hood in hopes to get a better handle on whether she is scum or town. I asked you this question because I am trying to determine if you really felt she was scum or if you were hopping on a convenient wagon.

Wasn't it Spiffeh that was the first to vote? If there was a wagon Spiffeh was trying to force it but wasn't getting any backing, how can you call that a wagon ?

[Kop]

My scum read on Anna stems from the fact that her whole goal is survivalism because she is worried about being NK'd so she doesn't want to be too town read. She has stated this multiple times in the neighborhood thread.

Sky and I have tried explaining to her multiple times that scum needs to worry about survivalism, and as town you should be trying to draw the NK in many circumstances (but not all). I was giving her the benefit of the doubt that it was one of those circumstances where she shouldn't draw the NK, which is why I came to her "defense" (even though it wasn't really a defense, just my read on her).

However, after she started not cooperating about providing reads in our neighborhood thread or in the game thread, I started to wonder. Her insistence is she will NOT provide any reads until the end of the night phase because I have no idea why other than she says she doesn't want to get NK'd.

To me, it's more reading like she doesn't want to leave a trail now for town to follow, rather than her worrying about getting NK'd. She could easily help town out by providing some reads either in game, or at the very least in the neighborhood PT so that Skybird and I have something to go off, since we are townreading each other right now. But instead she just wants to be difficult and answer questions in ways that don't even make sense in terms of the game state, nor in terms of being pro-town, and avoiding giving any sort of reads at all (again, I really believe this is so she doesn't leave a trail...there's no town motivation in providing ZERO reads even if she were in one of the special circumstances as town to not want to get NK'd).

This is why I've flipped my read on her from anti-town to scum.

I've had doubts about Anna and I have ISO'd her a few times over the course of the game, and I don't see what she offers.

This post about what is happening in the hood, isn't feeding me any confidence that she is town. If your town, you would be actively scum hunting, finding out information and sharing that with the town to work with, and if her role allowed it, she should be drawing in a night kill.

Her recent posts haven't even felt like any contributions apart from weak answers to questions, it feels like she is restraining herself, possibly in case she slips on something. I am not sure what to think of her, I'd like to see more from her, but personally, I don't think that we are going to get much, possibly we might after this day phase.

Leaning scum.

Ozgin, he seems all over the place with his reads, you can't go from saying town, to null, or town to scum, that seems desperation to look town, by giving false reads. The only thing that is achieving, is muddying the waters so in the case of, if you are lynched, we can't draw associations to anybody, and avenues to go down. If you are town, you'd be more consistent with your reads regardless of "I made those reads in the order they were." that you stated in post #1206

[Kop]

UNVOTE: wake

[Kop]

Ozgin, he seems all over the place with his reads, you can't go from saying town, to null, or town to scum, that seems desperation to look town, by giving false reads. The only thing that is achieving, is muddying the waters so in the case of, if you are lynched, we can't draw associations to anybody, and avenues to go down. If you are town, you'd be more consistent with your reads regardless of "I made those reads in the order they were." that you stated in post #1206

Can you rephrase this and elaborate on it a bit?

Ozgin is seemingly all over the place with his reads, going from saying one thing one post, to another in another post. It feels to me that his inconsistencies in his reads is appearing to be muddying the waters in case if he is lynched, we can't draw associations in terms of who could be buddies, if he flips scum. If he flips town, then well, who can blame us for the inconsistencies of his game in making us believe he is scum. If you are town, and wanting to find scum, you'd be considering how you would be giving out information, to not drawing the attention onto yourself that prevents us all going off that information and finding scum.

[Kop]

VOTE: anna

Let's hope the pressure makes her contribute more, and hopefully with more content to provide that she is town not the weak posts she has made.

[Kop]

Kop and Quaroth are both mega-lurkers.
Those wagons could be fun.

I remember asking Kop a question about why he wanted to lynch Ozgin and he wanted to kill Oz regardless of his alignment. He wasn't really straightforward about it either - he said Oz was either bad town or scum and left it at that.

I can't remember a single thing Q has done this game at all.

You asked the question to rephrase and elaborate, I rephrased as I felt that you didn't get my point.

But I don't think I actually stated that I wanted to kill Oz regardless of his alignment, so I'm not sure where you got that fact from, I actually would like to see where you would or how you got that assumption, that I wanted to kill Oz.

I didn't even vote for Ozgin.

[Kop]

I was going to elaborate on it and then I realized that I misread what you said. Just ignore what I said in the first place because it doesn't hold water.
Moving on.
Who's your top lynch target and why?

At this current time, the best candidate right now would be Gray, it's a BWCS. We can get information from that lynch without losing a great deal. I don't particularly like policy lynches, which I feel he is, but if he want to move forward in this game, he is the best course of action, right now.

However, before I place my vote, I want to know what these next few posts are all about.

Real quick I'm down for a Shinobi wagon.

I think he may have scumslipped in our neighborhood (which is why I directed him and Boon to the neighborhood) and I feel like all of his question-asking haven't yielded many results in the form of reads or votes.

VOTE: Shinobi

You're bad.

Even more interesting, it comes from another town read of mine in Spiffeh.

Shin's probably town. That reaction is not scum!Shinobi reaction.

When he was scum in Refraction just last month, he kept asking me to prove my case on him and why and why. And why and why!

I know you've explained why you have changed your stance on your original post, however, I believe that is a flimsy reason, at best. You simply cannot judge someone from previous games, to how they played in the past, everybody changes there game plan, experience grows, confidence in how to play certain roles you get better. You simply brushed that off, fairly easily, far too easily if I think so. Meta from previous games, do give a a slight indication, to what they possibly could be in this game, but I'd not use that as concrete.

If you believed that it was a scum slip, but weren't actually going to follow through with it, then why bring it up? Why not mention it in your hood to get that reaction in there, before bringing it to here?

[Kop]

However, before I place my vote, I want to know what these next few posts are all about.

Real quick I'm down for a Shinobi wagon.

I think he may have scumslipped in our neighborhood (which is why I directed him and Boon to the neighborhood) and I feel like all of his question-asking haven't yielded many results in the form of reads or votes.

VOTE: Shinobi

You're bad.

Even more interesting, it comes from another town read of mine in Spiffeh.

Shin's probably town. That reaction is not scum!Shinobi reaction.

When he was scum in Refraction just last month, he kept asking me to prove my case on him and why and why. And why and why!

I know you've explained why you have changed your stance on your original post, however, I believe that is a flimsy reason, at best. You simply cannot judge someone from previous games, to how they played in the past, everybody changes there game plan, experience grows, confidence in how to play certain roles you get better. You simply brushed that off, fairly easily, far too easily if I think so. Meta from previous games, do give a a slight indication, to what they possibly could be in this game, but I'd not use that as concrete.

If you believed that it was a scum slip, but weren't actually going to follow through with it, then why bring it up? Why not mention it in your hood to get that reaction in there, before bringing it to here?

EBWOP

Ignore stance on original post, Fro99er wasn't the original poster. However the rest remains the same.

[Kop]

VOTE: Grayfoxx

This here is the best of it all now. We have all backed ourselves into a corner, where it seems we are on damage limitation. But their is two plus sides to this lynch, we can learn stuff from it, and we either lose a VT, which isn't much of a blow than possibly outing another PR by looking elsewhere, or we hit scum which will be great news. We can then move onto day two with information about the game, that we can work through.

I still would like to hear more about this possible scum slip, and the posts that followed that. It's strange that you would bring that up in here, then simply brush it off, from a single post that only contained two words. What's that all about?

[Kop]

And now Kop is saying it's a policy lynch...wtf

Well it's simple, we either come off you, and go onto the next target, to possibly out another role that we'd rather stay hidden? Or we run up a scum member that could fake claim, great that we catch scum, but in order to do that, we need a counter claim which results in a PR out.

It's a policy lynch, plain and simple, but it's BWCS.

[Kop]

Wth so a strategy is to wagon people, until a non PR/ or scum claims VT, then we lynch them because we don't want to out another PR and scum can lie.

That's dumb.

I admit i claimed my VT role with no pressure, but the logic still applies. And my lynch is the weakest one there is. No good will come from it. Again if you like WIFOM go ahead and vote me, because it will be delivered hot and fucking ready tommorow.

The general consensus is I'm town. Who ever scum is this game is doing an Emmy award winning job convincing town to vote for someone they think is town.

The strategy is simple, a wagon is formed on who draws the most suspicion, we get a claim then decide what is the next best course of action. Right now, your the best course, simply because we only have 3 days (or something) like that, just enough time to draw up another wagon based on posts but we risk a good chance that we may bark up the wrong tree then be left with very little time to draw another wagon. We have already had a few claims on day one, we surely can't afford another one?

What do you propose we do, Gray?

[Kop]

Kop can you answer my question pls?

What question?

[Kop]

People I'm more willing to lynch than Grayfox: Kop, Fro99er, Lapsa, probably TSO, probably Salamence, maybe Red.

Kop I want you to tell me what information SPECIFICALLY that we will get from a Grayfox lynch. I hate how you hop in conveniently and vote for Gray because it's the "best case scenario" or w/e without EVER giving your thoughts on who you think scum is. It seems like you didn't even try to read him. I think he has been acting super villagey in recent posts.

I've been following the situation regarding Gray, I've not really contributed into that debate, up until now. I've tried to read him, but I can't get a real feeling about him, there is always going to be that doubt at the back of my mind, early in the game, I thought scum, his posts, votes had no substance, tried to look like he was contributing, whilst he has started to get into the game, I'm doubting that earlier read of mine that I didn't share, at the time, but I still think he is the best at the minute, I've already stated my reasons for that. If we don't want to go down that read, then why don't we just no lynch, then we can get information from the night actions? We only lose folk from the night kills, then we work of that information?

I have already stated in my previous posts who I have been viewing and offering my opinion whilst yes they may not appear to be real cases, but those are the people I suspect, or suspected at the time I posted them.

VOTE: Kop because why not?

Shinobi wasn't even that bad I guess he defended himself fine. The slip was more a timing thing than anything. Like he said "Welp, that's settled" 24 hours after I had even outed the neighborhood and he had confirmed in the thread. So what's the "welp" for when we all agreed it would happen and why 24 hours later?

Probably just me being paranoid.

I guess, do I trust your judgement on it? Don't you not feel that it's a bit strange that you'd bring it to the main board, for it then to be pushed aside with a weak reasoning, if the boot was on the other foot, and you weren't in the know, would you bring it up and question it? Simply because the entire thing could have been done, in the hood without it being brought to the main board.

I get that Grayfox is the "no risk" lynch but it's super bad when people like Kop come in and hop on that wagon saying it will give us information

when

he hasn't read or voted for anyone like the whole day.

All of a sudden he has an opinion when the easy wagon is almost at a lynch.

Grrrrrrrr

Skybird who other than Grayfox do you think is scum and why?

The bit in italics, the information we get from this, is if Gray was telling the truth, we get analysis of votes, who Gray suspected, who pushed him hard, etc etc. And the biggest thing that I can see, it's removing a policy lynch early, is the doubts about this slot going to go, looking at the bigger picture?

The bit in bold, is total bollicks. When you want to throw shit and hope it sticks, at least throw something with substance. YOUR the one who clearly hasn't read the entire context of the game.

[Kop]

Kop, who's mafia?

I don't know, I'd hope that you'd tell me, so I can go lynch them.

[Kop]

Kop, who's mafia?

I don't know, I'd hope that you'd tell me, so I can go lynch them.

You have

no

scumreads despite the game being 50 pages?

I've already given my reads. I thought Ozgin, he's claimed JOAT. I suspected Wake, but I've not really pressed that slot. I suspect Anna, but it's convincing that something has changed behind closed doors.

I'm not a fan of claiming too early, unless your pretty much bang on to be lynched. He claimed well before votes were drawing onto him.

I'm not saying that he is scum based on that,

I played in a game with Gray a month or so ago, and I think he got the same attention, and in the end he was policy lynched due to it being near the deadline. I feel that the same is happening again here

, I would actually like to see him input some reads, and some of his thoughts instead of ramming his VT claim out there in hope that we believe that.

I think this implies that you think he is town here. If I'm wrong please clarify.

I've tried to read him, but I can't get a real feeling about him, there is always going to be that doubt at the back of my mind,

early in the game, I thought scum

, his posts, votes had no substance, tried to look like he was contributing, whilst he has started to get into the game

But here it looks like you thought he was scum early on?

If Grayfox flip town, who do you think is scum?
If Grayfox flips scum, who do you think is scum?

I'm trying to work things in my head, one side of my brains screaming town, while the other side is screaming scum, I can't get onto neutral ground regarding Gray. He's not exactly done a lot of things that screams from the rooftops that he is town and I am wrong to doubt.

If he flips town, then TSO requires heavy attention, as he has pretty much drove it all and put the doubt there.
If he flips scum, then TSO is either town, or he's bussed early for cred. I'd also push for Anna.

[Kop]

I'm trying to work things in my head, one side of my brains screaming town, while the other side is screaming scum, I can't get onto neutral ground regarding Gray. He's not exactly done a lot of things that screams from the rooftops that he is town and I am wrong to doubt.

Ugh this seems like a super cop-out (Kop-out?) answer to me. I have no problem with not being able to read some one and going back and forth on said read. I do that all the time. But I really only see scum being that inconsistent with a read; not remembering how you read Gray early on is spooky.

You also have a lot of "filler" posts that comment on the strategies of players rather than the players themselves, which is an easier, less risky way for scum to pretend to be involved.

I'm inconsistent because I've been in this situation before, many a time in not being able to read spots, I see scummyness in his posts, but I see the player and his meta and it tells me another. I'm not copping out, I can't fault having these doubts. My early read, his early posts scream scum, but then I've seen it from previous game that I played, and he was town, meta telling me one thing, posts telling me another. :/ If he is telling the truth about being a VT, I was seeing it from BCWSPOV. If he is town, then I'd start to suspect TSO since he is/was ultra convinced that Gray was scum, if he flips scum, then it gives a bigger picture to the ones who objected for the lynch.

It's frustrating because I'd also like to put some attention onto TSO, but if he isn't going to be on I think SW mentioned that, then we aren't going to go very far on that one.

I'd like some suspicion placed onto Boonskiies, he is more than happy to go through the game, without giving any real contribution to the game, or any great attempt to find scum. He has given a few names that he wants votes on, but he hasn't pressed them. Another player just happy to watch the world go by with his hands in his pocket.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Kop]

Boon and Kop have been hardcore lurkers, and it seems like there's scum in one of those two.

Kop wants a boon wagon, and Boon has basically defended Ozgin all game and weakly suspected a few players. I can't tell if it's town townreading ozgin or scum buddying up to say, in essence, told you so after ozgin claims like he did in 1289

I looked at that post, and that is kinda the credit he hopes to get. What else can you achieve from saying well I told you all he was town? Nothing, there is no certainties in this game, that you can safely say he's town, other than if your scum.

[Kop]

Then he can be vig'd or something. I am more confident in lynching someone who has been posting like scum than a lurker for now. So please tell me how you feel about Kop.

I'm cool for a wagon on Boon to get him talking but I don't want Kop to go away as an option for lynch today.

I'm on my phone so I can't state everything on Kop rn.

I'm not lynching boon for activity. I'm lynching him for scummy play. Kip is voting boo, so unless multiball or bussing, that alone makes me feel good about Kop but I need to look further.

So your feeling confident in your thoughts that this is multiball? How do you know this for sure? This here, is pure guess work with no fabrication, or indications to back this point up, other than 'he feels good'.

And bussing? If I was scum, I'd not need to bus anybody, I could have simply carried on the way I went on before I put my two pennith on Fox, but I am not scum, so why should I hide?

[Kop]

So I'm presuming that he has a role that can only be aligned with non town.

VOTE: TSO

[Kop]

I'm thinking that one of those deaths is the odd vigilante as it would be a bit strange only to include the even night.

The other death could be sk or possibly another mafia faction.

[Kop]

I'm thinking that one of those deaths is the odd vigilante as it would be a bit strange only to include the even night.

The other death could be sk or possibly another mafia faction.

Pedit

Obviously I meant one death is mafia. One odd vig shot and the other possibly sk or another mafia faction.

[Kop]

I'd like to lynch TSO I don't care about leaching him. We either do it now or we don't do it at all.

At the end of the day there is no guarantees that he is going to shoot who we choose for him, he knows he is going to die at some point or another so what does he have to lose? And by removing him removes all doubts about his claim, at the end of the day scum will want to kill him before he has a chance to kill anyone and then if he doesn't die, your still going to have doubts still which is going to provide more distractions that is going to prevent us moving forward properly.

My vote stays on TSO I suggest everybody does the same. It can't be a good thing keeping him around.

[Kop]

I'd like to lynch TSO I don't care about leaching him. We either do it now or we don't do it at all.

At the end of the day there is no guarantees that he is going to shoot who we choose for him, he knows he is going to die at some point or another so what does he have to lose? And by removing him removes all doubts about his claim, at the end of the day scum will want to kill him before he has a chance to kill anyone and then if he doesn't die, your still going to have doubts still which is going to provide more distractions that is going to prevent us moving forward properly.

My vote stays on TSO I suggest everybody does the same. It can't be a good thing keeping him around.

Leaching meaning leashing

[Kop]

I've been in these games where we can keep the sk in and we provide him his orders, but it doesn't have its good points when the game gets near its climax.

If he is scum he is staying and keeping his scum numbers up, and when it gets near mylo/lylo we can potentially lose the game and if we lynch him then we still could lose the game if we can't work his partner out. (If he is scum).

[Kop]

I'm open to a red lynch and shoot either texcat or mah. Or lynch mah or tex and shoot either who we don't lynch.

Obviously I'd like to lynch TSO but we aren't going anywhere with that and I think it's waste of my time to shout it from rooftops if isn't going where.

This is my intent to vote red. I am not putting my vote officially in case he is hammered quickly.

[Kop]

The NK target could change possibly based off Tex's flip if we can find some Tex associatives.

I'd most prefer a Tex lynch and a Mahonster vig, but town is pretty set on Red. I have no clue about red, and i'm trying to read up now to sort his alignment.

How are you going to change the target and direct TSO at night? In the scum thread?

Seriously, why do you want my lynch? What on earth makes you think I am scum? And I'm pretty sure Red is town too. Town is not set on Red. That's mostly scum you see voting for him, led by the head scum TSO. I would add, trust me on this, but you don't really have to trust me on this. We KNOW that TSO is scum.

Kop, what makes you think that we aren't going anywhere with the TSO lynch? If obviously you want to lynch TSO, why don't you put your vote there? Saying that you want a lynch and not voting for it is scummy as heck in my book.

If you actually care to take a look back, you'd see my vote is already on TSO. And it's been there since the turn of day two.

[Kop]

I'm open to a red lynch and shoot either texcat or mah. Or lynch mah or tex and shoot either who we don't lynch.

Obviously I'd like to lynch TSO but we aren't going anywhere with that and I think it's waste of my time to shout it from rooftops if isn't going where.

This is my intent to vote red. I am not putting my vote officially in case he is hammered quickly.

Why?

I think it's a general consensus that it's going to be either one of those, I want TSO hung up but we seem to be pressing the idea and getting nowhere I've stated my reasons on wanting TSO lynched, but it's utterly pointless, utterly pointless.

So to reach a sustainable comprimise, it's a general case that majority think either red or texcat is scum so I'm going to trust some judgement here in the aid of helping town and lynching suspected scum.

[Kop]

If people are still wanting to lynch TSO why is red on L-2?

I'd rather a TSO lynch than others but if it is just going to go round in circles with not going that way then we have to reach a comprimise in aid of moving this game forward. And THIS IS the sole reason I want TSO head on a stick to remove these back and forth debates and not focusing on finding scum.

[Kop]

What's the vote count and who is on the red wagon?

[Kop]

Vote TSO

He has to go. No explanation needed rope needs to be placed around his neck

There is very little chance that he is a SK. Last night and the previous night proves that.

[Kop]

VOTE: Ozgin

@Firebringer what made you investigate Ozgin?

[Kop]

Isn't a JOAT usually one shot cop, one shot doctor, one shot vigilante, and one shot roleblocker? So how did you get two investigate shots?

[Kop]

Isn't a JOAT usually one shot cop, one shot doctor, one shot vigilante, and one shot roleblocker? So how did you get two investigate shots?

idk if Oz should out the people who he investigated or not.

I didn't ask for him to out the people he investigated.

[Kop]

So yeah, I'm okay with my own lynch because I've used both my investigative abilities and I planned only on living tonight because of my utility role (my third JoAT ability), but Firebringer is

very

obviously a werewolf cop who caught one scum and now is probably faking a read (because I'd bet my bottoms he's x-shot and out of shots) because he's now a vanilla werewolf with no more abilities and is using it to kill a town PR.

Jokes on you, Fire, I'm no longer useful to town. My abilities are spent. Also, I'm not outing my result last night as I don't want to senselessly out someone as my result did not catch a werewolf.

I'm not committing suicide, but I am amused with Fire's gambit and am more amused that his attempt to kill me because of my PR is useless and is just going to lead to his turbo-lynch tomorrow. It's like watching someone suicide bomb an embassy for their own country because they missed a detour xD.

VOTE: Firebringer

This role claim is either a lie or you are scum sided JoAT? (I never heard of this before).
Either way, I am not pulling a gambit off, and you are not sided with town.

If I was pulling a gambit off, I would be lynched tomorrow. It amuses me that you are pulling a gambit off with this claim and think you will survive tomorrow if I get lynched.

Why will he survive tomorrow if you get lynched?

[Kop]

Is that a slip?

VOTE: firebringer

[Kop]

Mis read his post. UNVOTE:

[Kop]

VOTE: ozgin

[Kop]

That is L-1

[Kop]

I've had a rough day, I don't give a fuck about mafia right now, so here's who's scum. There's no point hiding it now because I wanted to get a read on Kop in case he really was town, but he's not.

I'm in a neighborhood with Kop and Sky right now. Kop is a neighborizer becuase he invited people into his neighborhood the first 3 days. That neighborhood is the penthouse.

Kop has intentionally invited the most towny people possible, to try to get town cred. He invited Wolfie N1, Sky N2 (on recommendation from Wolfie), and me N3 on recommendation from Sky. So basically N1 he asked the conftownie who to invite, and they recommended their most towny, and he invited them. Then did the same N2. Oh how accommodating to the universal townreads...

Not sure why there wasn't a N4 invite, but Kop probably didn't want a hood that big.

Anyway, I've seen Aero, as mod, use a scum neighborizer before. Unfortunately (for Aero) it didn't get to happen because scum neighborizer got NK'd N1, so Aero wanted to reuse it is my guess (that game was also multiball with two scum factions, but it was 2+2 because it was a mini normal, not a large).

Kop wants the most towny people in there so they won't scum read him. But he's actually not effectively utilizing his neighborhood (none of us are, but I've been V/LA).

We need to lynch scum today, and it's Kop.

So that's what your basing false evidence on? Seriously? That's total nonsensical bullcrap. If that was going to be a case, for every neighbourizer role that Aero puts in his game I'm going to lynch that slot because of what you said. No game is the same game as before, roles may be the same, alignments are different.

You can see the reasons why I chose Wolfie first night, second night was a recommendation, but at that time, I couldn't disagree with Wolfie as she had a much better read on Sky at that time. I wasn't exactly going to bring in someone that I didn't feel town, at the time of the game, it's simple maths, if the boot was on the other foot, you seriously going to tell me your going to pick a name out of a hat and bring that person into your neighborhood so that you can discuss the game in private? When that person could easily be scum for all you know?

[Kop]

I've had a rough day, I don't give a fuck about mafia right now, so here's who's scum. There's no point hiding it now because I wanted to get a read on Kop in case he really was town, but he's not.

I'm in a neighborhood with Kop and Sky right now. Kop is a neighborizer becuase he invited people into his neighborhood the first 3 days. That neighborhood is the penthouse.

Kop has intentionally invited the most towny people possible, to try to get town cred. He invited Wolfie N1, Sky N2 (on recommendation from Wolfie), and me N3 on recommendation from Sky. So basically N1 he asked the conftownie who to invite, and they recommended their most towny, and he invited them. Then did the same N2. Oh how accommodating to the universal townreads...

Not sure why there wasn't a N4 invite, but Kop probably didn't want a hood that big.

Anyway, I've seen Aero, as mod, use a scum neighborizer before. Unfortunately (for Aero) it didn't get to happen because scum neighborizer got NK'd N1, so Aero wanted to reuse it is my guess (that game was also multiball with two scum factions, but it was 2+2 because it was a mini normal, not a large).

Kop wants the most towny people in there so they won't scum read him. But he's actually not effectively utilizing his neighborhood (none of us are, but I've been V/LA).

We need to lynch scum today, and it's Kop.

So that's what your basing false evidence on? Seriously? That's total nonsensical bullcrap. If that was going to be a case, for every neighbourizer role that Aero puts in his game I'm going to lynch that slot because of what you said. No game is the same game as before, roles may be the same, alignments are different.

You can see the reasons why I chose Wolfie first night, second night was a recommendation, but at that time, I couldn't disagree with Wolfie as she had a much better read on Sky at that time. I wasn't exactly going to bring in someone

Day One

that I didn't feel town, at the time of the game, it's simple maths, if the boot was on the other foot, you seriously going to tell me your going to pick a name out of a hat and bring that person into your neighborhood so that you can discuss the game in private? When that person could easily be scum for all you know?

Edit

Added bit in bold.

[Kop]

@Kop why you didn't hood anyone on N4?

At the very time, I didn't feel confident on who I was bringing in, with many of my thoughts over the game changing. I wasn't fully sure of what people were, we've seen claims, claims false proving false, and my reads just went out of the window, so I believed that it would be best not to bring anybody in with confidence in people, being at a low, after day 3.

[Kop]

@Kop what's the idea of secrecy?

I tried to keep it unknown to keep numbers up and scum guessing, some what like role claiming unnecessarily. If the matter was pushed hard then I would have rethinked the idea of holding it back. I would have came out at some point when we have dwindled down the numbers and a betted idea of who is definitely scum, an idea that has gone unfortunately wrong. My bad.

[Kop]

Nice job only appearing when you're accused of being scum.

I've made 3 quick posts in the penthouse since day started. I've been pretty much snowed under with work working all of 3 jobs. I've tried to get on and actually have a look but never got round to putting focus in the game. Had a spare hour early on to have a look also noticed a prod then I see myself being accused.

[Kop]

Also Kop said this (paraphrasing) in the neighborhood PT

"I want to keep our neighbor PT (penthouse) private so that scum don't take out confirm towns, giving them less place to hide. If we're not killed, they won't be able to hide"

That's such scum BS. Why is he assuming myself and sky are conftowns? He shows NO town paranoia there. None. It's like he wants to make a "conftown" bloc of me, sky, and him, and ride that out. Fuck that.

Even if I haven't said or done things of my own bat in terms of recruiting after Wolfie, but I looked over and felt that you both were good town leads, I somehow sensed that you or sky couldn't be scum because of your general game plays, but then again, I could be being led down the garden path, and one of you could be playing a very good scum game, I highly doubt it, hence why I brought you in, it made sense, from a town perspective.

[Kop]

Typing this from my phone, hate making posts on phone.

I didn't choose wolf or sky or frog just to gain trust as you pointed out, I chose them to help me find scum. By bringing in Wolfy she was one of my strongest town reads, and knew that would help us discuss the game without distraction and find scum. I asked her opinion on who to bring in for the next night as I did not want to take it upon myself and bring in who I think is town, that could potentially be scum, same goes for you frog. I might not be the best in reading people, so I felt that with wolf and sky having a better understanding at reading people than I do so I asked for there opinion. It wasn't all about trust it was all in aid to build up a relationship and help each other to find scum.

[Kop]

It's not only that. It's your insistence on a Red lynch when TSO had a guilty and you not being on the Ozgin wagon.

You are the most likely mafia candidate, and a godfather balances out the ascetic. You were all too happy to point out Fire's crumbs that he investigated you.

It doesn't really balance it out, it makes it harder for the town to actually find mafia in terms of investigations, surely?

[Kop]

VOTE: Goodmorning

[Kop]

Thank you scum you finally did it yayyyyy.

3 town 1 werewolf I think, it's mylo.

Where did the third kill come from?

I think it's lylo so thinking about it I think the best bet to get anything is for a no Lynch.

VOTE: No Lynch

[Kop]

Thank you scum you finally did it yayyyyy.

3 town 1 werewolf I think, it's mylo.

Where did the third kill come from?

I think it's lylo so thinking about it I think the best bet to get anything is for a no Lynch.

VOTE: No Lynch

Not set in stone whether it's one or the other we don't know for sure how many are on a scum team. Whether it be 4 Mafia 2 werewolves we can't say for certain. But whether it be mylo or lylo I think the best course is for a no Lynch and if there is only one scum member left we can go into the next day and have a better picture. Its our best shot.

[Kop]

Kop, who did you invite to your neighbor hood yesterday?

I didn't invite anyone.

I am only thinking that if there is 1 scum left, then no lynch gives us a further day and a better shot at winning the game.

If there is more than one scum left, then it's LYLO.

But we don't know that for sure.

[Kop]

I didn't invite anyone.

Why wouldn't you?

Don't know for sure who I am inviting in.

[Kop]

VOTE: Goodmorning

GROSS.

Thank you scum you finally did it yayyyyy.

3 town 1 werewolf I think, it's mylo.

Where did the third kill come from?

I think it's lylo so thinking about it I think the best bet to get anything is for a no Lynch.

VOTE: No Lynch

No lynch would only result in me or Anna being killed probably, as I think we're considered pretty town by now?

I didn't invite anyone.

Why wouldn't you?

Don't know for sure who I am inviting in.

You're right Nos, it literally just looks like he's trying to screw with us. Don't like these posts.

Kop, do you even care about winning?

How are you almost pretty much town?

And I stood by the fact That i said the other day, when I had no strong town reads and I'm still standing by that fact. I could be inviting scum. Yes fro99er said that she was the vigilante but I didn't see the claim in the main topic so do I take his word as Gospel?

I haven't ruled out there could be a slight possibility that there may be another Mafia out there also.

[Kop]

I don't think No Lynch would accomplish anything worth while. So do you have any any town or scum leans off anyone?

At the minute, I'm flagging Mah. I don't understand his confidence in how he believes he will be nightkilled or you, and that how he is pretty much confirmed town. At this stage, nobody is confirmed, you are pretty much there because the kills fall into place, with your claim, but Mah? I don't think I've seen anything that puts him in the same bracket.

[Kop]

I think it is time for a mass claim party!

I agree.

[Kop]

I'm just going to go ahead and find some scummy Kop shit that's recent.

I think it is time for a mass claim party!

I agree.

I JUST FUCKING SUGGESTED THIS YESTERDAY. WHY THE FUCK WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT TODAY. If there were ANY more town PRs, this game would be super unbalanced in towns favor.

Thank you scum you finally did it yayyyyy.

3 town 1 werewolf I think, it's mylo.

Where did the third kill come from?

I think it's lylo so thinking about it I think the best bet to get anything is for a no Lynch.

VOTE: No Lynch

This no lynch vote is fucking autistic. Why would no lynch help at all? Not only is it not LyLo, but in this case, by not lynching, this PUTS us into LyLo. This is scum trying to live another day to prolong the inevitable.

VOTE: Goodmorning

This vote. THIS FUCKING VOTE. This alone should warrant a turbolynch. It is scummy as all hell and basically incriminates Kop as Werewolf. Right before this post, Lapsa voted gm too. Not even THIRTY FUCKING MINUTES LATER, Kop naked vote hammers gm. I'm betting he didn't think Lapsa would have been killed, or that Frogger wouldn't been vigged.

You did suggest it yesterday, but we weren't in MYLO/LYLO, were we?

[Kop]

I'm sorry I'm away and I can't get signal where I am. I've had to climb a big hill just to get a signal.

I don't get how mah can be almost confirmed town in my eyes.

VOTE: mahonster

I have no confidence in him being town judging from his posts. He is trying to look pro town because he thinks he is almost confirmed town when he isn't.

[Kop]

Away on Hol I mean.

[Kop]

I am able to hammer you at this point Mah. What makes you town?

My 3161 pointed out the basics of my suspicion of Kop. I didn't vote him because that would have made it L-1 with you.
Like I said I kind of forgot that you were vig, so I was being careful and not putting anyone to L-1 yet because scum would just auto vote and win at that point.

That's why I remember I was pretty confused about this post too:

No lynch would only result in me or Anna being killed probably, as I think we're considered pretty town by now?

Why would you be killed over me?

Because idk I guess I just thought that you all thought I was town.
Apparently definitely not.
Now you're very obviously conftown though.

Kop is over simplifying my posts though. He says about me that "He is trying to look pro town because he thinks he is almost confirmed town when he isn't", but I definitely never said that there was no way I was scum or conftown.
The main two reasons I thought I appeared town was because of

1) Fire's probably town result of me

, and 2) Fro99er's 3110 called me out on being Mafia Godfather, and this was the major suspicion of me at the time. Please go read that post from Fro99er's perspective of me being a VT (Because he didn't want me lynched yet being a god father, it was just a thing for later because he needed wolves dead).

If you guys think that's stupid of me then so be it but ok.
I'm now voting Kop because of the same reasons for earlier, and he seemed super happy voting me.

That wasn't confirmed though, I don't recall seeing Fire saying that he did investigate you. He hinted at investigating someone, but never gave a name, he said that you weren't being lynched that hinted that you may have been that person, but that was never confirmed, so in reality that doesn't say to us that you are almost confirmed town. And for your second point, that whole show between you and frog, he was scum, he knew that you weren't on his team, that doesn't necessarily clear you entirely, he just knew that you weren't on his team, that whole pointing the suspicion was in aid to get you lynched, doesn't exactly clear you from being town.

You've basically put those two scenarios down and hope that we will buy that and clear you as can't be scum because of those two reasons. But from my POV that doesn't say your almost confirmed town.

[Kop]

Kop, what makes you town?

My role and alignment.

And how I have used my role to actually build up a team relationship to find scum. I did one mistake in actually bringing in one scum but at that point it looked like he was town from a player who is a lot better at reading players.

And the mistake of the hammer I felt that reading the whole situation it looked more like she wasnt town, she replaced in one game and Wolfy told me that she is active a lot when town, and well judging from her posts In this game she was more focused on other things than actually finding scum.

[Kop]

I've been thinking. Why didn't you invite me last night and try to guide my night kill?

I didn't recruit anyone because I didn't know who to trust. After the whole fiasco of what frogger did, I started to have doubts on who I read as town and I feel that inviting another person in it was just going to create more confusion and that I'd rather discuss the game in here to remove that confusion.

[Kop]

I've been thinking. Why didn't you invite me last night and try to guide my night kill?

Besides your an odd night vigilante?

[Kop]

I've been thinking. Why didn't you invite me last night and try to guide my night kill?

Besides your an odd night vigilante?

So the invite doesn't take effect until the next day?

If I recruited anyone they go in once all night actions have been processed. So it would have been the start of this day.

[Kop]

I am here, working 32 hours in 2 days has killed me. Catching up now.

[Kop]

Reading through day two.

[Kop]

On day two, I didn't get involved in the red lynching. I said in the penthouse, that I'd rather that we lynch TSO who was investigated as non town. I purely wanted him out of the game to remove the muddying the waters that he could have done, and suggested that keeping him in the game to a later stage wouldn't work. In the penthouse, I also mentioned that I would have been happy to go with red, after we lynched TSO, but I wasn't actually prepared to take a stand and go for opposite of what

[Kop]

Stupid laptop posted that before I even finished. I'll finish it off.

On day two, I didn't get involved in the red lynching. I said in the penthouse, that I'd rather that we lynch TSO who was investigated as non town. I purely wanted him out of the game to remove the muddying the waters that he could have done, and suggested that keeping him in the game to a later stage wouldn't work. In the penthouse, I also mentioned that I would have been happy to go with red, after we lynched TSO, but I wasn't actually prepared to take a stand and go for opposite of what wanted, as leashing him doesn't really work in my opinion, and always be in the regard of if we find someone not aligned with town, we lynch them. But obviously Red was lynched before TSO, so that's my main reason of why I wasn't involved in that lynching as I wanted TSO gone first, you know confirmed non town.

[Kop]

But I also stated that I'd be happy to go with Red, because we weren't going anywhere on lynching TSO, and posted an intent post to vote (that doesn't really prove anything, I know) but then there was one more page of discussion back and forth then there was 2 votes straight after each other on the next page that hammered the nail.

But overall, day two, I was wanting TSO lynched more than Red, non aligned with town vs someone that looked like flailing scum, but in my mind, I'd lynch non aligned town from investigation over someone who was debated on game play.

[Kop]

Day 5, overall was when things came to a head.

I made a mistake in hammering goodmorning, and that is something that

[Kop]

I keep pressing tab instead of caps lock when I'm typing and posting too early.

Day 5, overall was when things came to a head.

I made a mistake in hammering goodmorning, and that is something that I regret doing. I didn't make my thoughts clear at all throughout day 5 in terms of what I thought, Goodmorning was looking bad for me, even if she was defending the role. I used some knowledge from a previous game to what was said to me, and felt throughout this game, it seemed different, and felt that something wasn't right, it doesn't have a town feeling, so I made the vote on that knowledge. Obviously I was wrong on a massive level, and wrong to hammer.

However, I still have a basis that Mah isn't town, and his whole defence as a whole towards me, just seems far fetched and leaves me feeling that he is clutching at straws, picking out things that just feel weak and hoping it sticks. His whole game, just doesn't feel right, and that he has played a game to try veer away from partnerships and hoping to dislodge possible connections in aid to look town. The whole Red vs Mah was started from Wolfy, and he has just ran with the ball and thought I could use this to destroy the connection for later in the game, as he may have felt that well "I'm lynch bait, this could get them off my back."

And the whole lynch bait argument isn't really a good point to make to defend oneself, simply if you were lynch bait, you'd have been lynched before now for one, and for two, I do not recall you having a handful of votes near lynching, you have just been debated about before something else comes up which takes the light of you. Now it's down to 4, there is no where to run, to which you bring that defence up.

I also stated in the penthouse, that I wanted you lynched before now, and I still stand by that point, I just never got to follow that through as we lynched 3 confirmed scum players in 3 consecutive days and pushing for your lynch at that time would go against what I stand by, lynching confirmed scum.

[Kop]

VOTE: Mahonster

I feel pretty confident this is scum.

@Mod, can we get a prod for Kop who has conveniently disappeared for 3.5 days now?

I'm willing to sheep Frogger right now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: GoodMorning

The reason I hadn't voted then Anna, she voted for Mah then 6 posts later in the topic, she switched, and in that time, I wasn't active and busy with RL stuff.

[Kop]

Good game.

Frustrated that I couldn't get it over the line

[Kop]

Where is the dead thread

[Kop]

I think my reads were spot on imo.

[Kop]

[Kop]

I'm ok for releasing pt.

[Kop]

Also, Kop claimed scum to me and Sky in the penthouse, and we told Anna in northwest neighborhood. I'm not sure why Anna didn't come right out and say that the last day...

I wasn't expecting to survive, but after game thoughts shows me I know you were planning. And even when I survived and gone into the next day, I knew I was screwed but then when things switched to Mah, I felt that I could do this, but then work got in the way of me pushing harder, but it was a good game.

I don't like playing as scum, in general I am a better player if I am town, and actually can have a good read of the game, but as scum, I just don't know how to portray myself. I brought Wolfy, to at least try counter act that. I feel bad for betraying her

[Kop]

Did they agree to release the mafia pt?