New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[Taly]

/Confirm

[Taly]

Hi everyone. <3 Glad to be familiar with quite a few usernames here.

First things first

VOTE: House

Which face of House are we dealing with?

[Taly]

Ozgin. Listen.
I'm a trustworthy guy.
Get on board the trust-me-train and get this skybird wagon out the muthafuckin station.

ALSO WHY AREN'T YOU HAPPY TO BE IN ANOTHER GAME WITH ME.
UGH.

Can you give us a reason why we should sheep your vote? Assuming it is serious?

[Taly]

Sky's question in 54 was quite frivolous. We haven't even seen House post yet, so making reads like yours in 61 and Varsoons follow-up of that in 62 strikes me a bit weird.

Speaking of your post 61 Cheetory

Why are you saying House is most likely scum, but you immediately place your vote on Skybird?

P-Edit

Ozgin, I'm a male. ._.

[Taly]

85

D: *hugs*

>>>

But yeah, it is unofficial whether or not we are out of RVS, so I don't know how serious Cheetorys vote on Skybird is, I just find it incongruent to his recent statements.

P-Edit

87

Houses only post was confirming in the thread 9

And if you're going to say he hasn't obvtowned yet and you're suspicious - why hasn't your vote moved onto him?

[Taly]

I'm messing around about a scumread on House. Mostly poking fun at all of the people being concerned about him when he hasn't even posted.
I'm being serious about a vote on Skybird in many ways though.

House did not become a topic until I RVS voted him in 36 >>> I didn't think people would be more concerned with him until after he posted. Which I'm not understanding.

In that case

Eggs' 47 where he votes House(presumably in RVS) makes me wonder if he's having concerning thoughts as well.

And in post 54 where Sky asks about House.... it also makes me wary of him.

Hey Dragon, 100 >>> What about Cheetorys reasoning sucks? 97 - Seems to me like he wants the game to move.

[Taly]

Hi Kitz. How much do you like RVS?
How long do you want to stay in it?

Skybird came in, said a single thing, made a complete jokevote with no momentum on it and pced.
Let's get them talking and let's move the conversation in the direction of something productive.
Boom.
Sheep the vote or make a better one.

A. RVS is stupid, soooo, dislike.
B. Zero quantoseconds.
C. Better vote on Boonski. Dat ISO

But Kit, Boonskies hasn't posted anything, whereas - Sky is making posts revolving around the idea that he has had past experience with House before.

98

I've been in 4 games with House. I've seen him in both alignments.

I think voting to add pressure will give us ideas on him.

Also, I feel like Taly is over-analyzing, kinda digging for evidence that might not be there. Does anyone know if this is normal per his meta?

I find that I do tend to analyze a lot and make big posts.

(Trust me, the posts I'm making now are small compared to other posts I've shitted out later in a game.)

So, personally. I'd say this is meta from me... You can look at my history and see for yourself.

[Taly]

@Taly - Read some posts, I'd say it's fair to say you make a lot of long posts, but not so much using post numbers and such early game. It's moderately accurate to the little bit I've read, but meh, I still don't

like

it.

I'm okay with pressure on House too, but I'm more okay with getting out of RVS.

I do post numbers and quotes anytime, it's more like a whim. whichever I find is easier in looking at.

Personally, I didn't expect to have 4 votes on House to wagon him so quickly, specifically since my vote was originally in an RVS state.

Of course, I'm giving House the benefit of the doubt in the idea that he hasn't voted yet, but I'm going to keep my vote on him.

However, I do think that we're not really in RVS much anymore... Because of the wagon, and some reads forming.

...And partially because of my questions and analysis on Cheetory in 104, 94, 83, and 75 were meant to push the town out of RVS....

[Taly]

[/unvote] I need to evaluate this House wagon, because a four vote spring-up is strange, now that you mention it.

Yeah, it is.

I feel like scum is parroting someone here. Kitz and Sky are pinging me.

Kitz was preferring a Boons vote as opposed to Sky in 107 - but she votes for House whenever I say gauging House for a reaction would benefit.

This was right after 116 where Sky said he liked pressured to be on House and made their vote.

Needless to say, I'm a bit more suspicious of Kitz at the moment.

UNVOTE: House

Jumping off this wagon, there are already too many votes to have its original desired effect and House is no longer my main priority.

****Since large games like this go fast - I'm going to be AFK for possibly the rest of the night, or not. Idk. Just a heads up.****

[Taly]

Skimming through this thread a bit more.

Less inclined to believe Sky is any type of buddy with Kitz, unless she's doing some good distancing. I see she is asking questions and getting conversation going, which is good at least.

I'm having difficulty choosing between 1 of 2 greater evils. Kitz and Lala. 141 <<< This felt like Lala was just breeding apathy over people voting for her. I want to see some useful remarks, specifically when someone is having suspicion placed on them.

A lot of Kitz's posts so far seem pretty fluffy, I can't get an accurate read - especially from her: 138, 146, and 160

So... Overall, not a fan of either. I feel like Kitz needs some votes here.
VOTE: Kitz

Cheetory, do you still think Sky is more suspicious than the other 2 people I just named?

P-Edit

Oh wow, 168 is not making me think Lala is any townier.

Considering that there are 2 scum teams, and possible a 1 3-p person. The odds that Lala and/or Kitz are scum seem quite likely.

173
Really don't like this post of Kitz either, don't like how she debunks Ozgins analogy without giving actual feedback over it.

[Taly]

278

We are now getting another vote on

Kitz

? *blinks*

Ugggghghghghghhghhghghghgh, I don't like unvoting the exact post after my unvote. So, I'm going to keep it here for a bit longer.

Kitz

what do you think about

Ozgin, Lala, and Titus

?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

*Reads the past 3 pages*

:/ I had a good feeing about

Ozgin

, but he is making me question my townread. But I wonder if it is just a townie being frustrated.

Titus

,

VOTE: Ozgin

Why exactly did you vote Ozgin? I don't see a major reason in your other posts for why you would have voted him?

I'm liking

Varsoon

a bit more, liking his general attitude in the game. Last time we met, I generally had a similar first impression.... And he was scum.
Still, I want to see more of him before I make a move.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hey,

House

-

The game started at 36

You're welcome. ^_^

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I want to hug Silverwolf. Mostly because of 192

<3<3<3

239

I've stated that the desired effect of voting for House was to get more ideas in pressuring him, seeing his reaction to the vote. It was an RVS vote, it wasn't entirely serious.

The desired effect of pressuring House would have easily been obtained for 1 or 2 other votes beside myself. (You -

Egg

- voted for

House

after me, in this case.)

3 people jumped on the wagon within just around 10 to 15 minutes of my post. I was surprised, specifically because I found 2 of the people who jumped with me, to be suspicious.

But with the current circumstances, that is what led to my unvote. I know the speed of the wagon is normal in these large games(I think, because - I rarely ever do Larges.)

But I didn't expect the spring o the wagon, nor people to take my RVS reasoning and turn it into an actual push. It rubbed me the wrong way.

>>>>>>>>>>>

238

Why didn't you like the

Ozgin

wagon,

Dragon

?
^^^ People want you to specify your thoughts.

[Taly]

283

I'm inclined to agree,

Lala's

vote going back to House seems even more fabricated.

Kitz

, what do you think about Houses entrance into this game? I mean, his last few posts?

(This is also directed towards Lala)

Personally, I didn't like

House

dismissing the whole topic revolving around him, but then again - I haven't seen any red flags springing up, he is raising hell with a few people and I actually associate that with town-House a bit more than I would scum. Though, his attitude doesn't intimidate me, but I'm a bit surprised how he's already being aggressive in a sense.

285

This is something similar to what Kitz said, but I somewhat believe you are thinking it too? Any other reasons you don't like the wagon?

How do you feel that

Varsoon

is now voting

Lala

?

Speaking of

Varsoon

, I'm a bit more confident in town-reading him. In the game where he was scum, he was lurky - and blatantly had shitty play.... I'm not seeing that here. He seems more engaged, and more pro-town in his pursuits.

288

OK. Now the dots are connecting

Townread on Ozgin is weak for now, I can find genuine feelings through his recent posts, but I still don't like the claim either, nor just the general atmosphere, it pings a bit.

How do you feel about the Kitz/Lala wagon?

293

Cheetory, do you still think Sky is more scummy than Kitz? Your vote hasn't once changed from 61

346

Lala, if you wanted to bring House out of hiding - why did you revote after you already voted Ozgin? Plus, why did you jump on the House wagon when there were already several votes on it?

See, it's funny, I'm using a Google Excel sheet to organize my reads based on the null hypothesis and alternate hypothesis:

Ho: Player = Innocent
Ha: Player = Not Innocent

Now, in my sheet, I have similar reads for lala and Kitz.

What disturbed me about the wagon was how

fast

it felt like it sprung up, but Egg got on House in RVS and Taly was on second only to unvote when the wagon flashed.

Actually Taly was first, Egg second.

Whoa. O_o, I actually didn't notice this. OK, I'm beginning to get some town vibes on Lala from her recent posts.... Even though I really didn't like her overall posting.

Ozgin, I was the first to RVS vote House. I got off the wagon when I felt there was too much activity being brought onto it before House even spoke in the thread.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Overall, I think Kitz is getting a little better in posting, but my slight scumread still stands on her. A bit curious about cheetory's position because I'm not sure where he is getting his suspicion on Prolapsed, nor do I completed understand his suspect order list involving Kitz and Sky.

Getting conflicted reads on Lala, I think seeing some more posts would help settle.

I'm a bit unsure over Dragon as well - my first and only other game with him, he was scum ta-dah. So I'm not on board with trusting him, but I agree with some of what he says in terms of what points people make, but I don't really like how he has labeled lurkers in this game already, nor am I fond of the idea he hasn't said so much.

I think Silver is pretty genuine, haven't had a problem with her posts so far - even though I may need to look at her clash with House a bit. Still townreading her, as I am with House.

[Taly]

Hey Silver, I looked at some of your posts and your vote is still placed on Lala, what do you think about her recent posts? Her recent posts seem to be better in quality.

Also, are you still thinking Titus is scummy? 401 Feels a little odd with me.

Don't understand why House is caring about survival as town right now. :/ I still see town-House, but I have no idea what he is trying to accomplish right now.

P-Edit

410

Titus, why are you saying Ozgin is obvscum? Plus, there has already been a wagon on Ozgin - of which you're still on, what else do you have in mind?

[Taly]

Hey Silver, I looked at some of your posts and your vote is still placed on Lala, what do you think about her recent posts? Her recent posts seem to be better in quality.

Also, are you still thinking Titus is scummy? 401 Feels a little odd with me.

Don't understand why House is caring about survival as town right now. :/ I still see town-House, but I have no idea what he is trying to accomplish right now.

P-Edit

410

Titus, why are you saying Ozgin is obvscum? Plus, there has already been a wagon on Ozgin - of which you're still on, what else do you have in mind?

Wait a second. Wasn't taly the first one voting for house? Now all of a sudden he doesn't want to lynch house today. Taly defending house just seems weird to me. Especially since I've seen how you guys don't get along as town.

Slight misrep.

When did I even fucking say I was fine with not lynching House today? Don't assume shit that isn't there. I'm just saying that I'm townreading House, even though I'm becoming increasingly more concerned about his motives.

Also, my first vote on House was an RVS vote. Why are you treating it as if it were taken so seriously and that I'm now contradicting myself? I don't know where you're even getting this...

Also, House and I have 1v1ed as both town before - does it mean 1 of us is scum right off the bat when we don't?

[Taly]

Yeah, I can see Lala and Ozgin being in different factions, I'm more inclined to believe 1 is town, and the other is scum - but I don't think we're at that point to say.

Titus, you said that you'd wagon Kitz before Lala - What do you think about Kitz so far in contrast to Ozgin?

Also Dragon, sorry if I seemed a bit vulgar in my recent post. I stand by what I said, though.

[Taly]

429

Your insistence on voting Ozgin surprises me. Is this your moonlogic talking again, Titus? ._.

Nevertheless, I'm going to re-read Ozgin, and craft a more definite opinion on him before I go on that wagon.

428

Looking forward to your thoughts. I'm actually not in the best of moods today either, this is the weekend before the finals at my school.

>>>I do agree with Silver, it is hard to fake genuine streams of consciousness at scum. Scum usually has more shit to worry about other than trying to show their flowing thoughts.

Though, I have seen scum fake such consciousness pretty well, so this argument could go either way.

[Taly]

@Taly,

Moonlogic as people define it, is when I go off on things no one can actually understand. So I'll never be able to claim this is moonlogic. Moonlogic, regardless of who is talking, is in the eye of the beholder.

That being said, if you don't get it. Reread Ozgin's claim side by side with the line about Citizen in the first post. Then you'll get it.

I know your reasons over the ozgin scumread/wagon as you've already stated.

I'm just not following how you could be so confident in a scum read so early in D1. But in any case, I said I'm going to re-read/ISO Ozgin and I will, but I'm going to go to bed tonight. So toodles boo ;P

Spoiler: This might be post game speak, but it's nothing really content related. Would like a response in some form over this, though.

*Not entirely serious question*

I see quite a few people have referenced that this player list consists of very interesting/strong players.

Does this mean I reside in this category as well? IE, being a strong mafia player?

[Taly]

Hey Silver, I looked at some of your posts and your vote is still placed on Lala, what do you think about her recent posts? Her recent posts seem to be better in quality.

Also, are you still thinking Titus is scummy? 401 Feels a little odd with me.

Don't understand why House is caring about survival as town right now. :/ I still see town-House, but I have no idea what he is trying to accomplish right now.

P-Edit

410

Titus, why are you saying Ozgin is obvscum? Plus, there has already been a wagon on Ozgin - of which you're still on, what else do you have in mind?

Wait a second. Wasn't taly the first one voting for house? Now all of a sudden he doesn't want to lynch house today. Taly defending house just seems weird to me. Especially since I've seen how you guys don't get along as town.

Slight misrep.

When did I even fucking say I was fine with not lynching House today? Don't assume shit that isn't there. I'm just saying that I'm townreading House, even though I'm becoming increasingly more concerned about his motives.

Also, my first vote on House was an RVS vote. Why are you treating it as if it were taken so seriously and that I'm now contradicting myself? I don't know where you're even getting this...

Also, House and I have 1v1ed as both town before - does it mean 1 of us is scum right off the bat when we don't?

how is it a misrep? You specifically said and I quote:

"@All, I really don't care to lynch House."

so you don't care to lynch house but you aren't saying you were fine with not lynching him? You specifically said it was your desire not to lynch house. That doesn't make sense.

Dragon, you're confusing me with Titus. I never said I wouldn't care to lynch House.

@All, I really don't care to lynch House. I would imagine him being more likely to fluff the point and terminate conversation, more of an "I agree to disagree" as scum. I could be wrong here, I admit that. Yet, this conversation is bogging down in theory. Theory is where scum should want to keep this.

So enough about lurkers. Enough about theory.

@Avatar, 373 is all theory. It's easy to get hostile about theory as scum or town. Let's get some wagons going and see how people react to them. Particularly obvscum Ozgin.

410

[Taly]

Been re-reading Ozgin. Here are some posts that stuck out to me

Also, my last point on the Citizen thing and then I'm really going to bed, but I have myself written as citizen in my excel sheet (I have myself there because I just typed the list as the OP has it, and then I didn't feel like changing it after I already put my name in it, so I just threw down "Citizen, given" on my chart, and I've been using it as reference all game. Of course I'm gonna say "Citizen" when talking about myself in this game.

PEdit: Sorry Wolfie, I'm getting a little emotionally evolved and I need to pull that out of my thoughts here. I don't get emotional at all when I'm scum, and that's what you saw the most of with me in 180, so yeah of course you're not used to it. But that statement doesn't mean shit, my self-meta is useless and I'll leave you to your own conclusions.

What the hell? So you're claiming what is equivalent to VT because you had yourself written as it in an excel sheet? Also, what is this:

"I didn't feel like changing it after I already put my name in it."

So you were able to change your role? O_o.... Or you're not being honest with us?

I'm not discrediting you. You literally said that I called myself a vanilla townie, and that's not true. It's a literal misrepresentation of my terminology, which you seem to be obsessed with.

As for the shot (I'm assuming meaning shit) reasons on my push for lala, can you tell me why they're shit? Or are you just gonna throw a meaningless opinion with no supporting evidence?

Have you read the flavor correctly? Citizens are equivalent to Vanilla Town in their abilities. Claiming as one is the same as the other.

If you were a "Citizen", thought you would know this.

Uh, letting other people fight about their nonsense, and sitting back and cruising by?

Yes because sitting back and watching fights rage on usually gets town lined up to be killed, that is - if both fighters are town... Unfortunately, I should know this because I usually get into 1v1s.

You haven't posted in the past 150 posts, your wagon has had a second spark added to it, my town read on you is failing and not entirely because of your townslip. Your posts don't appear as genuine, and maybe this vote will encourage you to add more onto this subject that'd help town.

VOTE: Ozgin

I never like naked votes, especially ones on the wagons that are moving.

476

TSO, why are you voting for Ozgin?

[Taly]

Dragon is giving me a bad feeling, but I accept his humility/apology on him not really looking at who posted what.

Dragon is a slight scum lean, but Ozgin is currently catching my attention more.

I have mixed thoughts on RC, didn't like her self-vote. But I kind of like the pressure being added onto Dragon, I just don't have a major underlining reason to suspect Dragon-scum yet.

House, how do you feel about Dragon so far?

[Taly]

Oh fuck, I forgot to unvote Kitz. >_<

Oh well, Wake can handle the switch.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[Taly]

House, how do you feel about Dragon so far?

He's scum.

Don't let him fool you with his tricks.

What tricks have you seen of him?

Liking 466 from Silver

Because she is voting for ACTUAL REASONS.

However, before I think critically and move my vote, I want to hear Ozgin say something about the current wagon.

Sigh, Larges are scary for me. X_X :/ There's a good 3 people I'd vote right now - including my current vote - and wagons change dramatically every 5 pages.

[Taly]

486

Yes, I meant 486.

Dear god, it is too early in the day for this shit. lol :/

[Taly]

490

Sorry if I came off that way House, but I

never

said that you were voting for no reason. Specifically, I was referring to the people who are quickly jumping on wagons will little to say behind their own thoughts.

[Taly]

There is so much to process in the past 2 pages. I have read everyones posts, I'm saying this because this post isn't going to be a major reply to anything, just my shitload of current thoughts.

1)

493 Your vote is still placed on Dragon, yet you haven't even spoken about your theory - which may have seemed to lead you to the conclusion of Dragon/Ozgin scum? I'm not really understanding your thought process on 521 either. Do you mind telling us your theory?

2)

Just when I hop off the Kitz wagon. 498 - Someone else hops on. X_X You could do a bit better in timing, Anen. But - Why is Kitz your vote if you think Dragon/Ozgin are possibly partners?

3)

508 and 534 - RC, what are you smoking? ._. You claim Jester, and now you're saying you're town? I can't tell if this is scum trying to appear so frivolous that they are dismissed as a lynch candidate, or town doing some intentionally shitty play.

But while we're on the subject of your play, have you found out something you could explicitly point out - that makes Dragon-scum? 461

*Nonserious Point* 4)

Silver, please get better.

5)

529 Ozgin, if you had to place your vote on anyone else but Varsoon - who would it be and why?

6)

Now we're getting to the grand topic of this post, yaaaaaaay.

*Short Answer*

Beginning to dislike Ozgin wagon. Titus' recent posts make me want barf in my mouth a little, even though I'm a bit hesitant in thinking she is scum.

*Long Answer*

492 - Again, another post that gives me weird vibes on Titus. The more I'm seeing Ozgin, I'm thinking Ozgin is pretty angry town, and I don't think he meant harm about his analogy. Nor did Ozgin mean his analogy was directed at Silver, and this is what I see that Titus is implying when she reviews Silvers "unnecessarily hostile" point.

494 and 495 - These posts especially put me off.

Titus, do you know that Kitz has practically scumclaimed despite how frivolous she did? Haven't you seen how some of Dragons and/or Ducks posts have seemed fabricated? Why are you saying everyone who is looking at others instead of Ozgin in terms of suspect - is scum? I really do not like this tunneling mindset, especially how early we are in the game and it doesn't make you look good.

Another thing, you say

*if*

you're wrong, we could chase theory blindly another day? What the hell?

Since when is it a good thing that town blindly chases after ANYTHING in a game?

526

Um Titus, I don't entirely get what you're saying here. Are you saying by voting Ozgin, it'd be easier to find his scum buddies? What pairs of scum do you have if Ozgin was hypothetically scum?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I do not really like the responses from Ozgin, but they just seem genuine - in terms of emotion. I mean, a wagon going up twice now? Not to mention he's already gotten to L-4 before he was able to do something?

I want to see Ozgin play with some pressure off of himself. I'm also pretty sure there is a lurker and a scum on Ozgins wagon already.

My intuition tells me Ozgin is possibly town, but I'm his play is really not impressive. I really do not want to take Titus' tunneling to heart, since I'm not even sure of her right now. I don't know if Titus is scum though, we both have clashed before when we were both town, and I think this could be an disagreement? Not sure.

In any case, I'm a bit more confident in Dragon scum - I approve of the wagon and push but I'm a little unsure of the reasons. But whenever I ISO Dragon he just seems somewhat fake in his responses... I also think this might be his scum-play, since I've seen it from him before.

UNVOTE: Ozgin
VOTE: dragonspawn

This vote may be temporary, I'm not sure. Assuming that it is possible Ozgin/Dragon are a partnership(which, not sure how that'd work) - I'd be happier going for Dragon. Ozgin, can you actually scum-hunt instead of addressing everyone who wants to throw rocks at you? I haven't heard a clear-minded post from you since RVS and it is making me have some difficulty reading you.

1)

Dragon, who do you think is most likely scum at the moment?

2)

What do you think about Titus V Ozgin?

3)

Can you please give me a reason to townread you? >_<......

[Taly]

Taly, that unvote feels more like "I don't want to be associated with the people on the wagon than "I think Ozgin is town".

What makes you think that? Ozgin has been one of my earliest townreads, and it hasn't been until lately where I began to think he was scummy, and a lot of it wasn't through my own reads - it was mostly influence since everyone seemed to be jumping onto the wagon, so I voted Ozgin to see how he'd react, and I got a reaction and perceived it to be more emotional town.

At the same time, for a good portion this game thus far - I was onto Kitz,

but nobody seemed interested in that wagon

, I kept trying to understand why Titus wanted to tunnel Ozgin, and after seeing Titus' posts, I begin to question just how credible Titus was in her pursuit on Ozgin. Several people even said that Titus' case wasn't the best.

I didn't want to half-heartedly follow a wagon forever.

I also didn't like how Ozgins wagon formed, as I've said before - I didn't trust the votes behind some of he people who went on the wagon. (partially TSO who has done nothing, and just general votes that don't seem to be coming from peoples own opinions and thoughts) I already said I thought there was scum on it(Don't know who would be scum, but it's just my hunch), and probably a lurker as well. But that still doesn't rule out the possibility of Ozgin town.

In all, I'm not feeling the Ozgin lynch at the moment, I also find Dragons singular posts to be more alarming other than Ozgins reactions. Since quite a few people are more sure of Dragon-scum, and because Dragon hasn't committed so much to the game - whereas,

we haven't seen Ozgin much other than him constantly defending himself

. I think it will provide more info. to encourage Ozgin to do something else.

I don't typically bring this up, but this is only the second day in D1 - some people haven't even caught up with the thread yet let alone make a major opinion on a lynch. I'm just surprised at how much attention has been brought to Ozgin,

when there are several other people to be considered.

Also, in my unvote of Ozgin,

I said my vote on Dragon wasn't entirely solid. So I could very well just be a bit wishy-washy in my vote and later think that Ozgin is a better option - in which case, instead of saying I'm trying to avoid Ozgin-wagoner-associates, you should be telling me why he IS a better choice.

I'm not trying to distance myself from people who are on Ozgin's wagon, I'm going by what I feel is most likely the best to be sure of my reads on people, and see which action would be best for town.

Even though my opinions usually aren't popular a lot of the time... >_<

Specifically in D1, for reasons I can't comprehend.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hey

Varsoon

, you seem to notice my existence now. What do you think about

Dragon

?

Also, I'm realizing there is some sketchy shit going on here.

Boo

, why are you suspicious of me being associated with

Ozgin and/or Dragon

? - But then when I get on

Ozgins

wagon, and after some events leading me to vote for

dragon, Egg

is questioning that I'm unvoting for

Ozgin

to avoid associates?

I don't get it. I'm interpreting conflicted data here and it makes me suspicious of you people. Do you guys really think I'm in it with

Ozgin and/or Dragon?

If so, you've never stated why.

Also

Boo,

you haven't even replied to my questions towards you in 548 ._.

[Taly]

Dragon, generally - I have had a weird hunch about your reads. You haven't committed to major opinions on people, and I'm honestly not really impressed with some interactions you've had - in terms with RC, and in ISOing you, I'm a little curious about you and Boons. Also, your misinterpretation of my, and someone elses posts does come off as somewhat disingenuous. The push on TSO is understandable, but overall - I'm skeptical about your posts, some of the people I'm kind-of townreading are pursuing you, and I think you're as decent as a suspect as Kitz or Ozgin, but for different reasons.

Also, last game we had. I townread you, and you were scum that hammered my town mislynch in lylo. I see some pattern from that game in this game, but not all of it. Still, that is partially why I think some of your posts so far aren't real.

Side-Note, I tend to not townread scum, especially in lylo so yeah.

Thanks for the PTSD around yourself Dragon.

~ Italy

(Also, the PTSD, and Italy jokes are what they are, not jabs. I'm liking Varsoons laid-back attitude at the moment, it's relaxing. It also makes me less tempted to go V/LA to reduce current stresses in my life since I have finals/writing book/dealing with friends dynamic/quite a few other things that are more personal/etc.)

[Taly]

Observation point. People resisted Ozgin the Obvscum because it was too early to get a large wagon. Yet Dragonspawn has a wagon out of nowhere that is larger.

Noted. Total shit.

Taly, I'm looking at you in particular.

If you think that is the true essence of why I changed my vote then you are wrong. Please re-read my post where I switch. Plus, the Ozgin and Dragon wagons are both at the same amount. Stop treating as if everything other than your tunnel is worth shit. I have yet to be in a fucking situation where hard-pushing someones wagon in confidence leads to helpful things in town - especially in D1, and the idea that that is mostly all you've done so far, from aside of trying to get people to go on your wagon and putting down other alternatives that are just as valid - really does not make your push and reasoning come much from a town perspective.

Yeah, I can see that your push on Ozgin can be from genuine belief - but you aren't even 100% sure that Ozgin is scum either, and frankly, I really don't know IF you have any OTHER scum reads. I don't know what your thought process is Titus.

*Takes Deep Breath*
OK, got that out of my system. <3

Also. If you read my post, you would know - that I may or may not stay off the Ozgin wagon for good, so I don't know why you're looking at me when I'm sticking to my own formed judgments. Hell, I'm going to ISO Dragon and Ozgin so I may just go back to my vote. Is that a big deal?

595

Well for one, posts like 594 seem a bit off-handed. Not sure what you were referring to, nor meaning.

It is late where I am, tomorrow - I'm most likely going to ISO both you and Ozgin to settle my reads, I'll give my thoughts on your posts - why I think some seem really weird, and then I'll make my decision on the wagons. I may or may not change.

So far, you haven't done much to defend yourself from your wagon Dragon, which makes me a bit curious, versus Ozgin, all he's done is react to people suspecting him, and then go after Varsoon in particular. Off face-value, you guys don't seem to be towny.

[Taly]

Taly, I defended myself and then built a scum case. I'm at least actively pushing towards scum hunting, and not just trying to weigh in on every situation from the outside. You're playing cautiously, meticulously, and as if you're very removed. That's how I played my scumgame in 180.

Meticulous? That's kind of like me in general.

But you think this is my CAUTIOUS play?

Do you think I switch wagons because I'm trying to be cautious?

Really, my play so far is more of my actual genuine thoughts and feels. A lot more like emotional-taly - not even close to being removed.

@Taly, I can't lynch more than one scum at a time. So I'm identifying townreads and working outward. I can tell who I don't want to lynch because of the fact the wagons suck. Then I'd work to anything else.

Who would you not want to lynch today? Could you also refer to me to a specific case on Ozgin?

Also, you haven't mentioned much about your reads - so I'm not sure what to think once we see a flip from Ozgin.

Observation point. People resisted Ozgin the Obvscum because it was too early to get a large wagon. Yet Dragonspawn has a wagon out of nowhere that is larger.

Noted. Total shit.

Taly, I'm looking at you in particular.

If you think that is the true essence of why I changed my vote then you are wrong. Please re-read my post where I switch. Plus, the Ozgin and Dragon wagons are both at the same amount. Stop treating as if everything other than your tunnel is worth shit. I have yet to be in a fucking situation where hard-pushing someones wagon in confidence leads to helpful things in town - especially in D1, and the idea that that is mostly all you've done so far, from aside of trying to get people to go on your wagon and putting down other alternatives that are just as valid - really does not make your push and reasoning come much from a town perspective.

Yeah, I can see that your push on Ozgin can be from genuine belief - but you aren't even 100% sure that Ozgin is scum either, and frankly, I really don't know IF you have any OTHER scum reads. I don't know what your thought process is Titus.

*Takes Deep Breath*
OK, got that out of my system. <3

Also. If you read my post, you would know - that I may or may not stay off the Ozgin wagon for good, so I don't know why you're looking at me when I'm sticking to my own formed judgments. Hell, I'm going to ISO Dragon and Ozgin so I may just go back to my vote. Is that a big deal?

595

Well for one, posts like 594 seem a bit off-handed. Not sure what you were referring to, nor meaning.

It is late where I am, tomorrow - I'm most likely going to ISO both you and Ozgin to settle my reads, I'll give my thoughts on your posts - why I think some seem really weird, and then I'll make my decision on the wagons. I may or may not change.

So far, you haven't done much to defend yourself from your wagon Dragon, which makes me a bit curious, versus Ozgin, all he's done is react to people suspecting him, and then go after Varsoon in particular. Off face-value, you guys don't seem to be towny.

I haven't done much to defend myself? How can you claim that? I've responded to every question about me that I've seen. I haven't shied away from anything. And I am denying that I am scum. What the heck do you consider defending myself?

Not only have I been defending myself, I've been asking questions and trying to figure people out.

Multiple times I've asked you to show me where I've been fake. All you pointed to was the posts where I mistakenly thought Titus post was yours. When I realized the mistake I corrected myself.

Tell me, am I this aggressive as scum? Why the heck would I be doing anything to draw attention to myself in a large game?

Actually, it's the fact that I don't perceive you as very aggressive that makes me think you haven't done much to defend yourself.

A wagon on you is growing, and a lot of your game so far is mostly asking questions and figuring people out, there hasn't been a lot of judgments, and some of your posts like : 594 and 616 - seem contrived because it really does not give info and leaves intentional room for thinking. 558 and 560 seem like small notes you're making, you don't expand on them - and you don't do much in response to people suspecting you. I don't know where you're coming from on 534

This isn't all of the posts, but these are just small things that are pinging. Also I never explicitly said you were fake because of your mistake, but since I haven't gotten a huge town sense from you so far, it feels a little weird.

I don't know, I've never seen you in a towny position before and from what I'm seeing, I'm feeling as though there are a few things in your posts that are a bit suspicious.

Also, you never answered my questions in 548

623

Wasn't really expecting your vote Varsoon, what theory would lead to Dragon being most likely scum?

I wonder if it's similar to Boo's theory. ._.

Could you clarify your theory?

Also Varsoon....... Yeah, you've been scum with Dragon before. Do you think that this is like his scum-play?

@Egg

I haven't entirely just brought points against him, I've even said my vote wasn't entirely solid - at the same time, I've asked him some questions.

Also, to be honest - my unvote on the Ozgin wagon was a mixture of things.

I've townread Ozgin before, didn't originally understand the arguments with him.
A bit unsure of what to make of Titus right now.
I don't like how quickly of a spark Ozgins wagon came up, and I'm not really trusting who was on it.
I wanted to give light to the possibility of Dragon being suspect, since several people say they've made theories and etc.
Dragons overall play seemed a bit off to me, and I've explained this in part already.

So yeah, part of unvoting Ozgin was because I didn't want to go on that wagon, since I was still also unsure about my read on him.

But I wasn't trying to put distance on any specific person. It was general thinking I was having, if I was trying to avoid associates, then I would have addressed them already.

Am I making any sense? I really need to work on being a bit more concise on how I explain my thoughts and feels. I'm getting better and all though....

I'm 16 years old, with the intellectual mind of a 32 year old. >_<

I'm not using this as an excuse though, but that's how it is.

[Taly]

Final Notes

Varsoon, why convo can you have with Dragon in twilight tell that that much?

Anen, I'm a bit curious about your reads, you've been posting replies to people but I haven't seen much decision on your readings on others yet

[Taly]

Taly, you do realize that with multiple scum teams, Titus possibly being scum and the speed of the wagon are bad reasons to unvote, right? I can understand the rest, but you seem like you are re-asserting my point about you. And yeah concise would be good.

Silverwolf, can you show me what you mean as far as Bookitty? Regarding Taly though, my recent posts should show that you are wrong and I actually do have an issue with that. Probably more than with you in fact.

I never outright said Titus was scum, I just never followed their logic, nor really trusted it. I did however say, that I didn't see her hard-push to be coming from such a towny perspective because I've seen scum do it.

Why is it a negative that I'm re-asserting your point about me?

One

, I'm not, and if I was - then that'd tell you I'm not trying to hide shit

(but that's not to say I'm not being open to you now)

.

Two

, I'm being honest about my unvote for Ozgin, so if you actually understood at least a portion of why I unvoted then I'm not sure why what I did is bothersome to you.

Why don't you go back to the Newbie Queue?

Can we please not do this?

Anen, I'm a bit curious about your reads, you've been posting replies to people but I haven't seen much decision on your readings on others yet

Not much, because by the time I arrived there had been 20 pages or so.
But, some of my other reads were in 498.

Recapitulating them along with some new thoughts, these players seem to be town:
Varsoon (his scumplay is very different, plus he's efforts seem to be genuine, although I don't get his change on Ozgin)
Bookitty (posting style plus meta)
TSO (if he's scum he's more into the game and I don't know why certain players are scumreading him)
Titus (the sheer effort she's making plus she's scumhunting actively)
Taly (again, posting style, although I don't like the Ozgin-read)
RadiantCowbells (her gameplay would make no sense if she were scum)
(Yes, many of these reads are still based on meta, I must admit.)
.

What don't you like about the Ozgin read? If you agree that Dragon is scummy, then why is it a problem?

Also, thanks for your other referencein reads.

I meant extra. I don't think you are scum, though. I actually do understand why Dragon is being voted. I also do understand that there is no way scum isn't on the wagon as of right now.

For usefulness's sake, I'm going to keep the names of people who are on the wagon right now.

RadiantCowbells, House, Silverwolf, Bookitty, Cheetory6, Taly, Varsoon

You do know there are 7 scum, right?

I'm pretty sure there is scum on the Ozgin wagon as well, myself - as I've stated.

There might be scum on the Dragon wagon, but I'm neutral or townreading everyone on the Dragon wagon so far. So yeah...

@Taly, Bookitty and Varsoon are who I don't want to lynch. Leaning town on you as well because when we're both town you never understand what I say. Ozgin case has been made and done. Ozgin slipped. Ozgin's scumreads are reflexive and his scumreads are just attempts at those who discredit him. Varsoon has gotten a little bit weaker about his WTF turnabout that I don't get either. Given the synergy we had at the start, I'm still townreading him for now but it'll really be solidified when we have our interaction we both want. It'll be Monday at best as I've got work stuff in a bit (yeah I know Sunday, life of owning a business). Not a big fan of Egg randomly throwing in "Titus could be scum". Hell, anyone but me, could be scum, at this point. I like Anen's replies to me. I doubt he's buddying as he seems to approach Ozgin from a different direction. Pretty content calling Anenien town here as well. So short version, I don't really feel like lynching Bookitty, Varsoon and Aninenen today.

sorry Titus, in games and situations like Mafia, I don't understand moonlogic unless it comes intuitively, directly from within myself. In that case, I wouldn't even understand my own intuition.

Even then, I don't expect people to follow them like law. :/

Eh... Honestly, after reading some of Anens points and looking back at Ozgin, a lynch on him won't bother me that much, he's still reactive to the wagons.

However, I think Dragon is a ping bit better still. ._.

@Taly:
My theory has a bit to do with Boo's theory in that I'm trying to think of how House has structured the game and how the balance of the two bigger factions is handled. It also has a lot to do with my role and the role that I'm fairly sure that Dragons has.
To say more on it before we get a flip from Dragons would out a lot of info--not just about my role, but also potentially about Dragon's and maybe even some other players'. I don't want to do that if I can avoid it.
I don't put much stock into Meta. I know other people do, but I really don't mind too much for it. I don't have a good impression of Dragon's scumplay from previous games, though. I'd have to look it up.
Basically, if Dragons is our lynch, I hope that I can talk to him about his role a bit before he's gone for good. He's been really awkward and hesitant about it so far, which is what pings a lot to me too.

What if we could just ask Dragon when he's at L-1 or something? ._. I don't want to lose a possibly helpful PR on the off-chance Dragon is town.

Ehh. Sorry for the bit of WIFOM, but I really don't develop confident-scumreads in D1. Unless I viciously 1v1 someone, and even then it may not be accurate. X_X

In any case, if Dragon is still awkward in that possible situation - then he may very well be scum.

Probably all scum teams are on it, really.

So... Are you saying that all 7 scum is on the Dragon wagon? What the fuck?

[Taly]

Boons, can you at least explain why you think Dragon is not scum?

[Taly]

Boons, can you at least explain why you think Dragon is not scum?

I was honestly waiting for the masons claim but I sincerely doubt that someone is both masons and in a neighborhood.

Well, I'm actually still null-townreading House.

So, if he wants Dragon killed, I think he has a better underlying reason for it. Also, if there is scum in each neighborhood, then I'm more inclined to think Dragon is scum based on how he reacted to your role question.

[Taly]

Gah, the week of finals... and...

*Reads Thread*

What in the actual hell. House, like. Are you on something? o_o

House only claimed 3 roles. From what I know of House, he usually doesn't fully claim in D1, or even if his claim I accurate. So, I question Houses credibility in his claim.

I'm a tad bit more sure Varsoon is town but I don't know for sure. If he is in a neighborhood as he's said, I won't be surprised Bookitty is in it. >_<

I haven't done a major in-depth ISO on Ozgin or Dragon so far because I'm busy, but with all this new info. I think I'm going to step back for a bit and evaluate both of them before I stick to a wagon.

UNVOTE: dragonspawn

>>> For now, possibly.

[Taly]

750

I didn't say he still wasn't likely scum in my eyes, I just wanted to go through with the ISOs I said I would before making an absolute decision with my vote.

If you're currently a lot more sure of Dragon-scum than I am, can you enlighten me?

[Taly]

750

I didn't say he still wasn't likely scum in my eyes, I just wanted to go through with the ISOs I said I would before making an absolute decision with my vote.

If you're currently a lot more sure of Dragon-scum than I am, can you enlighten me?

You vote dragonspawn for reasons that have nothing to do with mine (I know this because I specifically avoided stating them), yet you unvote almost immediately after me.

What about my unvote made dragonspawn less likely to be scum?

I voted Dragon for reasons unrelated to you.

Why do you think I unvoted him for reasons related to you?

My vote about Dragon suggested that I'm not reading him as scum as confident as I was reading him, so I jumped off so I can evaluate the wagons versus trying to combat against someone who I wasn't completely certain about.

I already said my Dragon vote was most likely temporary. Hell, even the unvote could be temporary, but my next vote is going to be pretty exact on who I think is scum.

@Taly: What questions of yours have I missed, please?

"1) 493 Your vote is still placed on Dragon, yet you haven't even spoken about your theory - which may have seemed to lead you to the conclusion of Dragon/Ozgin scum? I'm not really understanding your thought process on 521 either. Do you mind telling us your theory?

Boo, why are you suspicious of me being associated with Ozgin and/or Dragon? - But then when I get on Ozgins wagon, and after some events leading me to vote for dragon, Egg is questioning that I'm unvoting for Ozgin to avoid associates?"

@Taly-Your wishy-washiness and fencesitting on the wagons is starting to bug me. Please do something to rectify that. I want to know what YOU think. It's o.k. to ask others why they find someone scummy or townie but I want your opinions on dragon or Ozgin or anyone else you want to vote for. It would go a long way to helping me read you better.

Why do you think I jumped off the Dragon wagon? I wanted to re-evaluate and reflect on my own opinions on things so I could find a definite vote I want to stick with.

I answered 548 in 551.

I don't know what kind of aggression you are expecting from me or why I need to be aggressive to defend myself.

As for the never playing town with me I found the game we played together. You replaced out early on.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=58673

I had forgotten you were the scum I picked out in rvs. So I suppose you wouldn't be as familiar with my town game.

And I am leaving room for lots of thinking. It seems foolish to not do so in a large game on day one.

Oh, that was right after I kind of became uncommitted to Mafia, and didn't really participate in a game or join the site until 3 months ago. lol......

So yeah, I really didn't see what happened in that game, I'll look into it now.

Also, I started playing the game without knowing what RVS was

So your insta-vote on me PISSED ME OFF. LOL

[Taly]

Hey guys, quickpost

My mind is on 1000 things atm, finals, general mood swings, some things being brought up that is draining my mental energy. sorry if I'm not going to be completely involved in this game for the next day or so, but I will be making an attempt to post daily.

I've been reading through the thread, I'm already beginning to warm up to Dragon being possible-town, I actually like some of his inquisition in the game so far. However, his interaction with things concerning his role and some people still seem a bit awkward...

I also looked into the game he linked and didn't see things that caused alarm according to his play so far.

Will need to look more in depth on Ozgin's latest posts, however - reading Boo's 1008, I'm starting to see Ozgin-scum, but I'm not completely convinced yet.

[Taly]

Few thoughts

1)

I'm still happy with a Lala and/or Kitz wagon, they're not completely cleared with me but they don't seem to be a major priority.

2)

I think I'm going to step away from the Ozgin and Dragon wagons for a bit - don't like how confident people are about their alignment considering this is D1, but I'm beginning to see dragon-town, but it's a slight, volatile lean though.

3)

Hey Drixx, you're alive. What do you think about the Ozgin/Dragon wagons? Also, I'm going back and forth on my Boons read. I usually would like to vote him or consider him anti-town because of how frivolous his usual posting is... But he seems to be doing some interesting play in relation to a few people, somewhat defending Dragon - and overall how he's approached Boo and House.

Don't know how to feel about it, I like his pushes but not his reasons.

4)

Varsoon, in case I didn't see it - why are you against an Ozgin lynch? 637, you mentioned he was trustworthy because of reactions you acknowledged. Could you explain what you saw?

5)

Silver, how exactly am I a null to you for going on several wagons? I've pushed and gave reasons for what I've done. Am I confusing you about something?

6)

Do not have a good feeling on Bookitty, and honestly I really haven't since the game started. I feel like Prolapsed-Brain might be mislynch bait, I don't know, I don't like the very little content he's provided, but I'm not sure if that makes him scum entirely. We already have several other people who really aren't doing much good content-wise either. <_<

7)

I like FA's initial entrance, he seems to be pushing and making fair judgments on his own accord.

[Taly]

1060

So posting my reads, asking questions, contributing to wagon along with voting them, and evaluating wagons is scum? Along with it being WIFOM, and shit motives?

Boons, I'm having a difficult time following your train of thought here.

Also, I'm a male.

1058

I did and I didn't find a lot of major reasons other than you believing Ozgins thinking aligns with a town mindset, along with how scum-him would have approached the OP and made a connection with the 'citizen' role with the powers of a VT

But that still doesn't tell me why you're opposed to an Ozgin lynch in detail.

[Taly]

1069

Wait, where was this exactly? o_o I probably overlooked it

1063

Also, how was I role-fishing in 684? I was just asking you a question on why you didn't think Dragon was scum, since you've never given a major reason why you think Dragon is town other than stating that he is your friend from all I've seen. 853 and 878

I also find it even more interesting that you tied in my question with a role.

[Taly]

I was just asking you a question on why you didn't think Dragon was scum, since you've never given a major reason why you think Dragon is town other than stating that he is your friend from all I've seen.

You can't see it, but I just slammed my head into my desk. Now my desk has a big head-shaped dent in it. Why do you hate my desk?

I've already stated I've been busy the past day or so, if I didn't see a reason on why Boons didn't think Dragon was scum then someone could at least refer to me to it.

Otherwise, I don't know why you're making this statement.

Also in context - I am currently holding a weak town read on Dragon, so I don't know why this is being brought up.

[Taly]

@Titus
Ah, OK. Thank you

[Taly]

????????

Like real life friends? Or a role? I don't get it. ._. What does friendship have to do with it?

I'm feeling really stupid right now. :/

[Taly]

Ohhhh.... That makes a lot of sense now, actually.

I'm just going to go to bed now. :/

[Taly]

Think dragon and Boon are, in fact BFFs and they're townie clownies.
Think the shiny Wolfie is scum (based on tone and feelings I get from her posts)
Yup.

I can see Boons/Dragon both being town, but if they really are BFFs then they have the same alignment. Which could be scum or town.

What type of feelings are you getting from Silver?

Everyone says it's a TownTitus push meh...

Seriously, it is the logic that matters, not the speaker.

I actually agree with you on this Titus, which is why I don't entirely agree with you about Ozgin.

I feel similar to Egg,

Spoiler: The post that egg made that I am speaking about.

I dunno. I'm kind of starting to doubt myself on Ozgin which I hate doing. I mean he could have easily seen "citizen" in his own Role PM, but then the whole VT argument makes no sense coming from him. But he's starting to feel genuine when he talks about it. I'm just not sure what to think. Then if Varsoon really is a town power role, it makes sense to let him sort Ozgin. But that requires Varsoon being town which I'm far from sold on. Then there's prolapsed. I mentioned one of his posts feeling awkward earlier but that would be the entire substance of any case from me. I could maybe vote skybird or Taly but I don't think I can convince ten people to join me. Radiant would be 100% policy. Anyone else would be weak gut and who is gonna follow that? So I have to either stay on Ozgin or vote Prolapsed and neither of those options seems like the absolute best we could do Day 1.

Varsoon, are you absolutely positive you can sort Ozgin?

Actually. If Ozgin is scum and he or his buddies are a RB, Varsoon is almost certainly getting blocked.

Ugggggghhhhhh.

I dunno. Ozgin is still a better lynch than Prolapsed I think.

Ozgins reactions so far have actually come off as frustrated more than focused or scummy to me so far this game. Also, if Varsoon could clear Ozgin - then lynching Ozgin now wouldn't be very helpful.

On the alternative side that scum DO have an RB and Varsoon is blocked.

Then that'd probably indicate to us that Ozgin is likely scum, or in some sort of hood, or partnered with someone. - it at least gives better info. on Ozgin and even Varsoon.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Where is TSO and House? X_X...

I want Prolapsed to catch up with the game and see what he says before I make any kind of push, or vote on his wagon.

1184

Let me see if I have all this info. on the Boo/Dragon/Boons/House dynamic.

Bookitty, House, Dragon are together in a hood, Dragon and Boons are BFFs.

House wants Dragon dead.
Boons defends Dragon, and has stated that Boo/House are possibly scum.
Boo has voted for Dragon, on a wagon beside House...

Hey Boons, I'm assuming you find parallels in House and Boo's play in this game than in the one you found that they were scum in.

Could you please link the game where Boo+House were scum? Maybe looking at them together and seeing any congruency in this game would be helpful.

[Taly]

Oh... I guess Boons and Dragon can be in my slight town read pile for now.

Honestly, the "Best friend" role is new to me. O-o

But I usually don't go into very crazy game set-ups, and I've only had 3 months of mafia experience in my mafia career lol - all on this site.

@Egg

My read on Varsoon? I've said before I believe he's town. I've seen scum-him, Varsoons play so far isn't as shitty for town as it was then.

Varsoon is also more active and giving more genuine thoughts than in his scum-game. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=61108 Is where he was scum - with Dragon, actually.

I do have doubts with Varsoon, but he's crumbing that he's some sort of PR, and I want to see how that plays out.

Egg, what are your reads on Kitz and Varsoon?

@Boons

1192

OK thanks for the reference, I'll look into that.

[Taly]

Oh wait, I just realized Boo was the person who referenced it via quote. lol...

Boo and Boons are very alike in names x_x

[Taly]

Taly, your description of Varsoon's scum meta sounds like his two town games I was in with him as well. I wouldn't consider him town just for not playing to his meta.

I was describing why I thought he was town, versus what I've seen in his scum-game.

What about Varsoon do you see is scummy?

[Taly]

1203

I see what you're saying, I guess I'll look into Varsoon a bit more. He does seem to have specific interactions with some people as you said.

Still haven't gotten many scum vibes from him - if any. My read on him is partially gut as well.

>>>Welcome Delta. :3

[Taly]

Personally, I don't think she'd [lala] have any more free time as town than as scum.

Eggsactly!

Lala can you do less fluff and more answering? My question to you about why you think Silver is scum 1185 still stands.

Sigh, Titus. Your push is bad, and it's not worthwhile fighting it anymore. I'm gonna work towards actual progress.

VOTE: ProlapsedBrain

Haven't caught up fully yet but I believe Ozgin is town. He feels very genuine guys, so I won't be participating in his lynch.
VOTE: Prolapsed
Probs scum.

I feel like you're sheeping people in votes again... Also, how is Prolapsed scum if nobody has seen him catch-up post yet?

[Taly]

I like that Titus engaged with Lala a bit more efficiently than me and 80% other people here have. X_x

Similar to Lala, my reads would change quite a bit seeing Ozgins flip. I keep going back and forth on my read on Ozgin and it really isn't beneficial at this point.

Looking at the VC in 1272

As much as I'm not really townreading Lala, either. Looking at the Prolapsed and Ozgin wagons.

Prolapsed

- I've said this before and I stand by it, this guy looks like mislynch bait. He may not have done any shit so far but the idea that he is at L-5 is a bit concerning - especially since people call him scum before his catch-up post.

I'm not really happy with Prolapsed either, and seeing his flip either way means nothing to me, wouldn't change reads, or current thought-process. He hasn't contributed much if any content. Lynching him D1 would just be PL.

If anything, if he doesn't start actually playing the game before we lynch someone today, or D2 - then I might start seeing why people are voting him. But right now? No.

Ozgin

- A lot of why I don't like the wagon is how it actually formed, and who all jumped on it. But that's not something to keep me from voting or thinking Ozgins actions haven't been at least somewhat scummy. However, the idea that Titus and other people seem to be tunneling him for this long makes me want to see Ozgins flip more.

But, I can't take Varsoons softcrumb over checking Ozgin tonight to be 100% true... There's been way too many claims this D1.

I keep going back and forth on my Ozgin read as well, so seeing his flip would bring good clarity and info.

Ozgin has been through hell this game, so his behavior is understandable... But if I look at it from face-value... It's pretty anti-town.

Gun to my head, with no emotions involved?

VOTE: Ozgin

1)

Seeing his flip would be much more fruitful for us to see.

2)

It'd give me a better clue on my town and scum reads. Since I'm vaguely uncertain on most of them.

3)

Ozgin has not done much other than defending himself and talking about the people who has pushed him.

4)

This lynch would actually change this game state I mean... This game hasn't evolved much from about 20 pages ago.

5)

Really not in favor of Ozgins attitude.

Ozgin, if you're town - then I'm sincerely sorry.

Titus, I'm going to have a few issues with you if Ozgin flips town. :/

[Taly]

Note for Taly:

You are right, I do have 4 abilities. Ask yourself what you think my 4th is, and why I may have been unwilling to share it.

Now wait a minute. Stop reading right now. Go back to the last light and let it marinate in your cranium.

...

No. Keep thinking on it.

............

COGITATE MOAR BRAH

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you've chewed on that for a bit, here's another question:

What is the pro-town motivation in pointing out the unorthodox number of abilities in my claim?

The Pro-town motivation?

1)

I believed you had good reason for not full-claiming, and I didn't have intention to fish your role itself. In 749, I was speaking out of the fact that you usually don't fullclaim, specifically this early.

I also wasn't the only - nor the first person to point(or my case - hint)

*like in 722*

out how many roles a JOAT may typically have.

2)

Assuming you were being truthful about at least part of your claim, I took your claim to be more town-motivated, despite the quick reveal - which seemed a bit sketchy within itself. With this in mind, I didn't want a possible town JOAT to die early over frivolous reasons.

I can't say much more than this at the moment, otherwise it'd give too much info.

I'm trying to actually be better at preserving shit as town. Especially since this is my first time in multi-ball. :/ I'm noticing that's like, one of my greatest weaknesses in these games so far.

It's painful. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying though.

Oh don't get me wrong, I am still 100 percent committed to voting Ozgin. That doesn't mean I have to be antitown as fuck about it.

House, here's to hoping what I think your saying is what I think you are. If so, thank you.

Taly, I think you know I am town regardless but Ozgin's scum so yeah.

Yeah I think you're more likely town - but I'm going to be pretty salty if you tunneled Ozgin all this time to find out he's town.

But I'm hoping - and feeling a lean he is a bit more likely scum.

Welp, I apparently am bad at impromptu quoting mechanisms. Sorry Taly, lol.

Lol np

But Ozgin, I would like to say a few things

1)

When I'm in games (half the players here - who've seen me in AT LEAST 1 game - and may have already noted this)

I tend to have either really strong stances on people, or really wishy-washy ones.

My vote on your wagon is partially based on the idea of whether or not, I think is the better lynch between you and Prolapsed, and the possibility of any other person at this moment - right now.

2)

I do pump out analysis' quite a bit, but I'm not the most logical person in this game by a long shot. Nor do I try to be, actually. I have given some comments about your posts and general mindset, even though I haven't done a full-out ISO look on you - I've searched up a good bit of your posts. Ultimately, I haven't been swayed to thinking you're town confidently. Seeing your flip would bring info. to my eyes all around - as I've said before.

3)

Also, you have 9 reads in a scummy pile. There's 7 scum. .-.

[Taly]

@Taly, That's fair enough. I think that might explain part of the reason why I had trouble reading you in the past. I think I'm using the wrong archetype to read you. I always figured that you considered yourself to look more from a logical perspective as opposed to a behavioral or emotional one.

I don't consider to favor either logic or emotion. They're both very useful in terms of reading people in games.

Personally, I'm a more emotional person, though I observe a lot. But I always love to analyze stuff, it's very helpful in ways I can't always explain.

That's actually why I was afraid of joining the Ozgin wagon sooner. I was unsure of people going after him because both logic and emotion said something different about him, towards me.

However, I came to my decision over the wagon earlier because I didn't want my vote to stay inactive for too long, and I know me being unsure on people really isn't going to help town. So, my vote so far on Ozgin stays on the idea that I still think he is a better lynch option - and seeing his flip would bring clarity for me about my reads.

I usually am not confident in any of my reads in D1. That's actually why I jump wagons frequently, but I also try to form my own reason for a vote.

[Taly]

Why does the Lala wagon go through a boom in votes the second I vote Ozgin? D:

[Taly]

Yeap

The scumreads I listed were more suspicious to me than PB. I voted for PB and not my scum reads because I believed a single vote for one of my scumpicks would be useless, whereas PB may come and do something if he had more votes. Kinda just to get my vote off House I guess. Yeah, it's stupid and my votes are just all over the place and I probably deserve to be lynched for this nonsense.

UNVOTE:

If you are town, then why are you just accepting the reality that your votes are shitty and you deserve to be lynched?

This mentality is anti-town at best.

Can you at least vote or do something according to what YOU actually think?

[Taly]

Why does the Lala wagon go through a boom in votes the second I vote Ozgin? D:

cause you at scum together?;)

probably cause that's when duck gave reads.

"Cause you at scum together?;)"

Wait, what? lol?

Hey dragon, what are some of your reads btw? O:

[Taly]

If you are town, then why are you just accepting the reality that your votes are shitty and you deserve to be lynched?

This mentality is anti-town at best.

Can you at least vote or do something according to what YOU actually think?

Okay sure.

You're scum trying to look town. It doesn't read as genuine

VOTE: Taly

I'm sorry, but when is it a townie thing to say and I quote:

Yeap

Kinda just to get my vote off House I guess. Yeah, it's stupid and my votes are just all over the place and I probably deserve to be lynched for this nonsense.

UNVOTE:

OK, so you're saying you deserve to be lynched?

This is a self-sacrificing thought process

1)

If you think your votes are stupid and all over the place - why don't you actually work towards something you think isn't such nonsense?

2)

Town shouldn't say "I'm an easy lynch" or "I deserve to be lynched" >>> That's just an excuse for people to think you're genuine. Under no circumstance should town just 'give up' and say that they are deserving of a lynch IF they truly are town because:

A)

That literally gives scum a LOT of room to set up mislynches.

B)

Town being so apologetic to the point that it gets them wagoned and suspected and they STILL don't do anything about it - is playing against their wincon. Town should never be OK with themselves being lynched because lynching town DIRECTLY hurts town and benefits scum.

Why are you dismissing what I say is truthful - as something scum would say - and that it is not genuine? Am I "acting" town for actually trying to keep people from baiting themselves? Listen to your thinking here.

Oh wait, you probably aren't town in this case - if you're coming at me based on me "faking" to be townie, and here you are - saying you're an easy lynch, and you're deserving of one because of YOUR OWN play.

Sorry Lala, I'm going to have to stop you right here.

You have

FOUR

people to answer to, because they are just now voting a wagon onto you - and I am not one of them. Funny how you don't seem so concerned when people create pressure and pushes on you. It makes me wonder if you really are buddied with someone.

1334

Boons, do you really think I'm a possible partner with Lala? When have we showed signs of buddying or partnership in this game? We've been constantly holding suspicion of the other.

[Taly]

I voted for you - which I believe is working towards something that isn't nonsense cause you're scum.

Do you know that for a fact? What about me do you find is scum?

Plus, why haven't you paid attention to anyone voting for you?

I'm not giving up.

Then can you please tell me what the point of these posts were?

Yeap

Kinda just to get my vote off House I guess. Yeah, it's stupid and my votes are just all over the place and I probably deserve to be lynched for this nonsense.

UNVOTE:

In fact, I think you're likely scum for pushing to lynch me because I'm an easy lynch ~_~
Not only based on OMGUS okay, scum literally tries to get me lynched in every game I play.

1)

Just because someone is pushing you (not always to gun to get you lynched) doesn't mean their likely scum. Even so, scums point is to get you lynched/killed assuming you are town.

A)

Is this why you don't react to people pressuring you via votes?

B)

Saying you are an easy lynch and deserve one are 2 VERY easy things to say, especially for scum trying to avoid being lynched. It's just the idea that you've said this, and you're NOTICING that your play leads to things like this - so why are you not doing much of anything about it?

C)

Claiming this is a deflection to people who are scumreading and voting for you, it doesn't give them any info. and all it does is enforce the idea that someone is being wrongly lynched whereas, the people who suspect you often have pretty good reasons to initially push you.

2)

You aren't giving up, but you certainly don't appear to be doing much other than placing votes on people with little reasoning, jumping behind people quickly on wagons, and fluff posting.

This along with the fact that you're apologizing for not helping just makes me question if you are scum, town shouldn't just throw themelves all over the place and expect people to not suspect them for it.

My mislynch was already being set up a few hundred posts in.

You haven't really spoken up about this. What posts have led to your mislynch being set up - and who do you believe is doing it?

I'm not okay with being lynched. I want to stay and help town win, although I admit my play has been anti-town for most of the game. I should've just lurked instead of posting fluff, I didn't know what to say to actually contribute.

Lurking is no better than fluff-posting because they can either be perceived with people having scummy motivations or people have no motivation due to their lack of actual content.

What do you mean you didn't know what to say to contribute? There's 21 people here. There's quite a bit to work on, and you saying that you have found little to nothing - makes me wonder if you're limiting yourself because of certain people...

[Taly]

Why are you so sure that she's not scum?
Also, I don't think she's newb. I've just checked it and she was (and is) in quite a couple of games before.

Her oldest game is March 5th. This is May 22nd. That's 2.5 months.

if this was the only game she was in, I could see being critical. But this isn't the only other game she's in, so her play here looks to me like she simply jumped in over her head, not appreciating the nature of large games.

Now gtfo her wagon and lynch scum.

Ooooh, interesting.

FYI, I started mafia initially at the exact same time.

(But I'm literally batshit insane, so yeah...)

So I think I can understand that Lala is town being overwhelmed, but that doesn't entirely excuse her play.

Actually, I would be OK with looking at her more harshly in D2 provided she hasn't stepped it up.

[Taly]

House... What the hell are you trying to accomplish?

[Taly]

Yoh House.
Tell me whether I should ISOdive Taly or Bookitty.
Then talk at me about your Ozgin read atm.

P-Edit: nvm.

wait, what changed this? ._.

[Taly]

Oh

Seeing a flip from either Lala and Ozgin would seem to clear a lot of adversity here.

But House has said that Lala is likely overwhelmed noobtown. But he also said that if Lala hasn't stepped it up D2, then he would be fine with voting her.
But Varsoon has said that he could clear Ozgin tonight. But assuming scum don't want this to happen, then it could prevent Varsoon from doing it.

However, Varsoons read on House hasn't been cleared yet - and it doesn't appear to be a townie read.
Along with House being OK with Varsoons lynch here.

There is way too much conflicting data. This isn't even considering who is on each wagon, and their reasons.

Hey House, can you explain to me your vote on RC? Or why exactly you would want to lynch them?

>>>>>

I'm getting pretty edgy right now 5 to 6 people have placed some suspicion on me but only half of them have given just a FEW sentences as to why they think that.

Everyone that has townread me so far has played with me before. Or seen my play before.

[Taly]

Hey House, can you explain to me your vote on RC? Or why exactly you would want to lynch them?

Harken back to post 1280. RC notes suspicion of lalaladucks.

Leap ye forward to post 1311. RC votes lalaladucks.

What is missing between 1280 & 1311?

Absolutely no reasoning, engaging, or questions of any kind?

!!!!

Now I see what Lala meant here.

My mislynch was already being set up a few hundred posts in.

Now I understand how the Lala wagon isn't entirely artificial.

lalaladucks

dragonspawn

,

RadiantCowbells,

Boonskiies

,

Ozgin

,

Varsoon, Silverwolf

Going to look a little deeper into RC ad Ozgin.

Ozgin

Titus

,

T S O

,

Egg

,

Bookitty

,

House

,

FA_Q2

,

Taly

,

Prolapsed Brain

Cheetory, I know House asked a similar question, but I'd like to see your meta-read on whether Boo is specifically like town or scum.

Also, can I encourage votes on TSO? Maybe that'll get him to do shit.

House, assuming you believe Ozgin is more likely town - what made you come to this?

I'm still thinking Lala and/or Ozgin are likely better lynches, but with all these new info. I'm becoming increasingly unsure. I'd rather lynch Ozgin at the moment but that could change.

[Taly]

"Now I understand how the Lala wagon isn't entirely artificial."

Or organic, I mean.

Either way, there's likely scum on both wagons, and I think there is possibly scum between Lala and Ozgin.

[Taly]

I'm closer to thinking Lala-town.

Sigh, multi-posts. Sorry X_X

[Taly]

Can someone please post intent to hammer before ANYONE makes a vote on Ozgin?

Also preferably, can we have Ozgin post at least 1 more time before he is hammered?

[Taly]

Intent to hammer.

I thought the original intent statement was obvious but to clear things up I wil hammer.

won't be soon though. I'm starting work.

Oh, I usually see intents to be bolded. So I skimmed over it, oopsies. D:

Well in any case, thank you ._. o:

[Taly]

-_-*

[Taly]

Wait, wait wait.

Titus, did you just crumb you're a cop?

[Taly]

Oh, I misread. X_X

[Taly]

Oh, I misread. X_X

Figured as much.

The next time you ask me if I crumb anything, I'm going to tell you to go to hell unless I feel forced to claim. Pointing out crumbs is very anti-town at best.

:/

[Taly]

But House has said that Lala is likely overwhelmed noobtown. But he also said that if Lala hasn't stepped it up D2, then he would be fine with voting her.

This could also be taken to mean that he will take the opportunity to coach her intensely during the night to assure she doesn't do it again.

Just sayin.

Maybe, but I'm going to be a bit more decisive once we see some info. via flips, and what is likely to happen next phase.

>>>>>

I'm getting pretty edgy right now 5 to 6 people have placed some suspicion on me but only half of them have given just a FEW sentences as to why they think that.

This is probably a scumslip.

And how so? I can quote you posts where people have casted suspicion but haven't said much about it.

Plus if I were scum, why would I bring attention to people scumreading me? I'm legitimately not feeling good with a few things occurring right now.

[Taly]

Boons, you never explained why I'm scummy.

[Taly]

check your ISO. and then check my ISO. it's pretty clear.

No, it isn't. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

[Taly]

@ 1060 quote.

1060

So posting my reads, asking questions, contributing to wagon along with voting them, and evaluating wagons is scum? Along with it being WIFOM, and shit motives?

Boons, I'm having a difficult time following your train of thought here.

Also, I'm a male.

You failed to see that I was asking you how my posts were fluffy. I'm giving you quite a bit of ideas on why you aren't correct in this statement. If you ISOed me, you would most likely understand.

1063 quote

I'm sorry, but this was before your BF claim, no?

How was I role-fishing, you could have given an honest assessment on why Dragon was town instead of claiming and/or accusing me of role-fishing when I asked you why he was town.

1064 and 1065 quote

If you tried to take in what my 'walls of fluff" say, then you'd know that I'm giving genuine thoughts over what I think is currently happening. Where are the fluff in my walls?

Also, what do you mean "trying to make connections with self and others?"

Is that a negative, even?

1067 quote

Again, you're making something about something completely different. You also lacked engagement in most of my follow up responses and questions according to your suspicions of me.

1086 quote

OK, what in the world?

You NEVER said in this quote that "nitpicky Taly is scummy" >>> You're adding on to your words to make your case look more broad when you really have little to back it up.

Also, how am I being nitpicky? You ignored that my profile pronoun is a HE.

I'm not upset with gender confusion - but why are you dismissing me and writing me off as annoying when you're not applying effort or care towards your push?

[Taly]

Do you know why I'm trolling?

We should see the flip and the results of a couple of Night Actions first, shouldn't we?

THANK YOU.

Someone who shares my thought process at the moment.

[Taly]

YAY.

I always wanted to be a female alpha, even though I identify as a male.

You know me so well Titus. <3 :3

[Taly]

YAY.

I always wanted to be a female alpha, even though I identify as a male.

You know me so well Titus. <3 :3

I score a tad bit higher on Femininity than Masculinity.

So yeah, I'm cool with this.

[Taly]

Yay, Anen can be our pigeon

[Taly]

Guys, I'm going to be V/LA for the 25th to 29th.

So, I'll post around some, but I'll be seriously busy. Thanks for understanding ^_^

[Taly]

I've been reading a bit, and what in the hell am I looking at.

VOTE: Titus

I did this as a favor to Wake. I was planning on retiring. I'm just leaving this game better when I leave. I'm done.

This alone is worth my vote. VOTE: Titus

So Titus

>

You're tunneling Kitz similar to what you did with Ozgin. Ozgin flipped town... I'm not sure why you think I similar approach is going to give you different results.

>

You're now VOTING for yourself. Why... If you are town, you're playing directly against your wincon. This is even worse than the "apologetic Lala" brain bowl evacuation we witnessed in D1.

>

You keep saying that auto-correct is giving you problems? Can you PLEASE specify what your words meant? You're not giving us any room to think that you're trying to conceive a message conducive to town the more this continues.

Spoiler: Autocorrect errors

Ty. Carson btw I am here. Fire away.

Carson = Varsoon God damn autocorrect.

Umm, your phone has worse autocorrect than mine... I don't even know who you're talking about.

Deep. Autocorrect. Crossbar is crossbus. It's literally the mini hosted by Cheer. You should find it. When it was obvious I was going down, you made a big stink about how I was scum but never gave a good reason why. Here looks like more of the same with la la.

Well, that was a solid night.

Also a possibility that Blue team kills odd nights, Red kills evens.

If anyone needs me, VOTE: laladuck

first, why would wake give one team that disadvantage?

second, how do you know the other team is blue? Or did I miss something?

VOTE: RC

I am sheeting this or Kits, whichever is larger

Mod:Are best friends normal or would they require using the "not normal slots" you have.

Please read Game OP and Normal Game wiki page.

Ty. Cc please.

That should bc Vc. I am not asking the mod to cc dragon and boon.

So yeah, my autocorrect is bad.

Reasons why nobody should ever play Mafia on their phone 101. (Not trying to be an ass, but this is something everyone should understand.)

VOTE: Kitz

Fucking seriously...

Just fucking lynch me. I don't care anymore.

I always get run up as town. I'd rather claim and get it over with.

Other than selling yourself to the rope, can you please give a more elaborate case on Kitz than you had on Ozgin?

Daykill: Lalaladucks

I want to think you're being truthful, but I'm struggling, sadly...

[Taly]

@Taly, there is no more elaborate of a case. I can't.

@Boo, If I knew what I intended to say I would have said so.

I just feel this is Pathfinder mafia all over again.

I mean... You could at least make a post with ALL of your points as to why you think Kitz is the best lynch option today... even if you repeat yourself a little....

Otherwise, I don't think your tunneling is worth a pursuit as of right now.

[Taly]

I'm trying to make sense of the TSO kill... The only thing he remotely mentioned about his reads was Kitz was town. 1648. That Silver and House weren't likely on the same side. 1841

And then not really anything after that... He never got on the Titus wagon and she was the 3p person in the game.

House and Silver are giving me some weird vibes with their interactions.

Anenien also had some interactions with Silver and House. He also pushed Kitz as House did in 1766 I'm kind of doubting the Kitz-Wagon push in D2 was much of a town wagon. House also never left the Kitz wagon, after looking at the final VCA.

Speaking of the VCA, Lala. 2033 was as a shitty hammer, it doesn't matter that Titus flipped scum.

Going to look at House and Silver more closely. But Lala really has not stepped up her postings since D1 that much at all... Looking at her ISO and etc. Partially 1404, where she said she'd do a bit better...

I question if 2046 was solely meant for distancing from House, it seemed one-sided. Specifically since Lala makes the correlation that we probably don't have any more JOATs, and undermining a claim.

I'm sorry if I'm not seeing any improvements Lala, but you're still very flippant in your posts. Also, if you're scum, I think House would likely be a buddy and Silver would be town.

In any case these names are catching my attention quite a bit:

Kitz

,

House

,

Silverwolf

and

lalaladucks

I'm still feeling that lala is scum, and seeing this for confirmation would be really useful knowledge.

VOTE: lalaladucks

**I also find in interesting that Silver was on the Lalaladucks wagon in D1. 1701 >>> Gives me some confidence in these reads.

[Taly]

^ Seems like bussing to distance himself from partner. Also, TownWolf is very easily manipulated by ScumHouse. I believe Wolf to be super town.

Can you at least ISO me and tell me what about my interactions suggest some form of partnership with Lala? We've both scumread each other for most of the game so far.

I would like some more time given to the day today rather than quicklynching lala while she's on V/LA. I feel like yesterday went kind of quick with the Titus drama and I'd like more time to ISO people and do some re-reading and try to figure a few things out. I'd like to ISO TSO and anen as well.

House and Silver are giving me some weird vibes with their interactions.

Anenien also had some interactions with Silver and House.

In any case these names are catching my attention quite a bit:

Kitz

,

House

,

Silverwolf

and

lalaladucks

**I also find in interesting that Silver was on the Lalaladucks wagon in D1. 1701 >>> Gives me some confidence in these reads.

Elaborate on all of this.

-What weird vibes are you getting from House and myself? You and Kitz have both thrown shade at me over this so I would like this explained.

-Why is Kitz on your name of people who is catching your attention?

-What interactions between myself and anen and House in particular are of importance to you? Start with me. Then House.

-Why is my vote for lala D1 important?

I don't like the idea of quicklynching Lala much either, but voting her seems to be a good start for the day.

1)

The weird vibes I get from you? I don't believe I've thrown shade at you, sorry if it seemed like I did - could you quote? However, you and House have both gotten into arguments with each other twice in this game so far. TSO suggested that one of you were town and scum - and he was killed.

By this idea, it's possible that one of you were responsible of his death. It doesn't make my theory correct, but it does give strength to it. Sorry if this isn't making much sense, I tend to look more into peoples deaths/flips and understand who killed them more than a lot of other people on this site.

Basically, I'm getting weird vibes suggesting that you and House are possible suspects, seeing how you both have interacted with the people who were killed so far, and how you both have been against one another at a few points.

2)

House tunneled Kitz D2. Anenien sheeped House for a small bit in D2. 1766 There's a few parallels here, I find the intention of continuing to tunnel Kitz in D2 to be scummy.

This sounds crazy, but I think Scum-House would kill someone who would follow their wagon for a short period of time, it'd give him credit and preserve him as scum for later. Since you know... House said he was already playing in a survivalist mindset. 392

Despite me thinking Kitz is was likely scum at one point, my read on her is becoming a bit null, and I don't think she's a strong possibility of scum as opposed to people like House and Lala. Ultimately, it makes me think Kitz would have some sort of relation to a few peoples flips here.

TSO also townread Kitz, so that's something I feel that needs to be brought up.

3) and 4)

<<<< These two points work together.

1438 and 1444

These posts were the second time where you and House butted heads. The first was near his entrance where you guys spoke something about intimidation and how anti-town the other was seeming.

But about these posts - it was mostly about you calling out House that his reasons for voting Lala were bad, and Lala was most likely scum. I believe that it is really unusual for House to ever really defend someone like this though, which makes the suspicions valid and more likely. Overall, I wouldn't be surprised if House and Lala were scumbuddies, but even then - I wouldn't understand why he'd go that far for Lala.

Lynching one of them would give insight on the other. Your vote on Lala D1 was important because you weren't on the Ozgin wagon 1701 but House was

But you were on the Titus wagon 2041 - whereas, House was bussing Kitz.

Houses motives seem to scream of scum him. I'm also thinking that if House/Lala are scum, you're even more likely town - even though I'm already thinking you're likely town right now despite my suspicions.

I see absolutely nothing in the TSO iso that would seem to be motive for a kill, Taly. I actually asked Cheetory in our neighborhood if he could think of any motive. That seriously looks like a randomized kill.

This is still likely but meh... If TSOs kill did mean anything, then it'd work with my thinking that one of House/Lala/Silver/Kitz are people that need to be looked at.

>>>>>

Not liking recent posts from House, will look and digress but I'm having to go do some things right now.

[Taly]

@Taly-The reason I am forcing you to explain yourself is because I feel like you are being reachy and I've gotten that vibe from many of your posts this game. Associations without a flip are worthless as well.

That's a reason why my vote is where it is, I want to see the flip of the person I'm scumreading. So I'll see how likely my reads are on the idea of association.

What about my posts have seemed reachy to you? Which ones?

You never explained what interactions between myself and anen concerned you. And why are my interactions with House weird? I dare you to find a game we have played in together where we don't bicker with each other. But what does that tell you exactly?

You didn't ask about Anenien beforehand - I didn't say that the interactions between you two concerned me. But I found that it may connect with why Anenien could have been killed. Mostly because you and House didn't seem to be working together(Which could be TownVTown, but I somewhat doubt it) - and how Anenien treated the Kitz wagon.

I also haven't seen a game, or been in a game with both you and House - so I wasn't sure where you were going about this.

If you two tend to argue with each other in the games you guys are in:

Which alignments did you guys have where you guys argued the most?

Do you think House is scum in this game?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Didn't know that people were having high tensions right now. *After reading the last 2 pages* :/ Can we all just hug and shit?

However, I don't understand entirely Drixx's conviction in thinking House is scum, and someone who is instigating drama and contributing to chaos.

House is controversial a lot of the time, it can be hurtful and unpleasant, as well as when you're trying to figure out the game. Unless he's directly deterring from the discussion intentionally (I feel like he's being genuine in his feelings right now) - then his harshness shouldn't be taken so personally.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Taly and lalalala are scummates.

Discuss.

Also, yes. Lets get back on track, people. ScumHouse will figure itself out later. Vote Lala or Taly.

._.

So will you not scumread Taly when I flip town?

Cause that's what will happen.

Think Taly is scum.

Reasons later.

VOTE: Taly

tallyho!

....Why whenever people vote for me or cast suspicion on me.... They give little to no reason behind it? Is this some sort of trend in this game?

Lala, unless you give a damned good, original case on me - then I can assume that the reason why you're voting for me is to preserve yourself.

I'm trying to not get into major arguments with people this game... I'm starting to have some trouble with this.

[Taly]

My first game on this site, Taly, I got called a homosexual and had a long time site member tell me they wanted me to experience prison rape. The mod of that game didn't think that warranted more than a reminder to follow the rules. I try not to start fights or go after people, and I try to keep myself in check when I see abuse but when it gets to a certain point I just step in and do my best to stomp it and put it to an end.

Oh god. :/ I'm sorry.

In the case of those few pages, I just don't believe for even the smallest possible unit of time that House didn't realize "99.9% empty space" was a reference to the reality that even "solid" matter is almost entirely empty space, and was obviously meant to inject a little humor. He intentionally pretended to misunderstand (even after it was explained) in order to push a case. I find that scummy.

So there's two issues. The first is the attacks, and that's mostly settled. House doesn't seem to want to take an olive branch but he seems pretty intense most of the time so I'm fairly sure he's still in the "I didn't do nothing wrong I don't need to meet anyone in the middle and resolve anything" stage. I've noticed that intense people tend to take awhile to wind down, and that's whatever.

The second issue is the intentional manipulation to try and push a fabricated case on someone. There's literally no town motivation imaginable for that.

Ah, I'm starting to understand your thought process better. I'll look a bit more hardly at the past few pages. I'm already not thinking House is towny at this point.

[Taly]

I apologize for losing my cool earlier. I still don't like what I see on those pages, but it's not the worst stuff I've seen. I think I am just sensitive to it because of a couple bad experiences on site {on another occasion a player told me that I was going to go to hell when I died ... no joke ... and neither of the examples I've given were instigated by me ... not even with any of my usual snark}, and I also am probably older than most on site and as a consequence I've been around the internet before it was really what we think of as the internet, and I've seen countless people who subscribe to the philosophy that online isn't "real life" and thus they can say whatever they like, no matter how hurtful, and they can lie and cheat people and steal from people, and just shrug it off and tell their victims that "It's the internet ... grow thicker skin" and so we have bullies blaming victims as an ever increasing trend.

I see the results of some of the really nasty stuff younger people do to each other pretty much every day I am in the office or lecturing on campus.

I think that sort of thing is called a "trigger"? I will get ridiculously angry when I see others being abused, and I try to just ignore any that comes my way, unless it's especially egregious.


So that's like an explanation, not an excuse. I should very much like to hear from House that it's just water under the bridge, as I enjoy playing with him and find his unique approach generally entertaining and challenging. One need only search my posts for references to House to see.

Honestly, everytime someone in a game says "Stop with your woe is me attitude"

I've had 3 people say this to me in 3 different games. All 3 of them were scum I caught. I only got 1 killed because the other 2 drove my mislynch into the damn ground.

It makes me want to scream, because I find this greatly insulting. I used to be picked on too, and same as other people I know - friends and strangers alike.

This is actually why I get very vocal and argumentative in these games. I'm not going to let people push me around and etc., whether they're just trying to get me killed or whether or not they find me annoying, truly.

I just haven't been in 1v1s with people this game, because I know at least half of you. This is also my first multiball, and I feel vulnerable. I don't want to get far too emotional unless I have to.

I also seriously do not like being angry.

I second or third that lalaladucks needs to post her reasons for the Taly vote. I understand she is V/LA at the moment, but I dislike when someone drops a vote on someone and either gives no reasons or says reasons later.

I've made an ENTIRE ESSAY on me looking into 5 peoples ISOs(not including my own), EXPLAINING my PARANOIA on half the people scumreading me are likely scum themselves. This is not OMGUS.

I honestly have little to no idea why people are calling me scum, then going after others, then painting my actions as scum, then saying they'll come after me later.

I have little idea on why people even think I'm scum. I even have evidence to prove against the FEW reasons that have already been stated against me.

[Taly]

@Dragon

Who do you think is more dangerous right now?

RC, House, or Lala?