New York 180 (Endgame)

[Cheetory6]

All the cool kids are doing it.

#include <mafiascumplayers.h>

void IsPlayerCool(MSPlayer Player){
----if(Player.getSocialStatus()=="cool") printf(Player.getName() + " is really cool!");
----else printf(Player.getName() + " is worth being voted for.");
}

int main(){
----MSPlayer Cheetory6;
----MSPlayer SilverWolf;
----Cheetory6.setSocialStatus("cool");
----SilverWolf.setSocialStatus("D1 lynch");
----isPlayerCool(Cheetory6);
----isPlayerCool(SilverWolf);
----return 0;
}

Output:

Cheetory6 is really cool!
SilverWolf is worth being voted for.

Ok C. If you insist.
VOTE: SilverWolf
Someone let me know if I missed any bugs.

[Cheetory6]

I like my vote. Silver's all like "look at me guys I'm proactive" and I'm all like "bish ur so fakn it gg get wrekd".
Elusive seems town.

I like the vibes from this game thus far. Might make being in too many games at once less of a pain.

Hi SilverWolf! Your posts are looking especially lovely today.

What makes her posts look lovely?

Let's nail this guy for buddying me.

At least buy him dinner first. Jeeze.

you totally took the cool out of voting with that program.

for(int i=0;i<4;i++){
--printf("you make me sad and I hate your guts\n");
}

Output:

"you make me sad and I hate your guts"
"you make me sad and I hate your guts"
"you make me sad and I hate your guts"
"you make me sad and I hate your guts"

@Everyone: what's the biggest flaw in your towngame? Your scumgame?

Town - I get mad.
Scum - I pretend to get mad.

Weird fact: I usually draw Scum when I have the flu.

Is your V/LA actually secretly flu-related?

[Cheetory6]

What would you be expecting from scumSilver right now?

[Cheetory6]

Is her typical scumgame really that awful? o.o

[Cheetory6]

Is Shinobi a Thor alt?
I'm getting nightmares of my first game on this site.

I'm wary of people being so confident in meta this early on in the game
Has Silver really said enough at this point for the three of you to be so confident in her being town? Is what I'm reading as forced tone come across as playstyle or what?
Also, when's the last time that the three of you have played with her?

[Cheetory6]

Dragon, klingon and aero to a lesser extent.

[Cheetory6]

Are you saying SW has forced tone, or we do?

Idk, her tone feels genuine for now, to me, as well as similar to town games I've played with her.

I'm saying that her tone feels forced to me. That it seems to me like she's trying really hard to seem proactive in a way that I feel isn't real.

@Silver

, will lurk game you linked when I have some spare time tonight. Been putting off homework to be here. q.q

[Cheetory6]

Busy as fuck this week. Quickly glancing at the game Silver linked while I have some time and I can see the difference in how much Silver directly interacts with people in the game Silver linked vs here. I still feel kind of weird about some of her posts before, but if this many people are claiming metatells then I'll settle for reading through a few of her games later this week when I have more spare time.

VOTE: FA
His switch from a decently-reasoned vote on Grib to what reads as a dumb jokevote on Shinobi is vomit. Even worse is that he softpushes Grib shortly afterwards and then does nothing to engage Shinobi.

@FA

, what're your updated thoughts on Shinobi now that he's explained his intentions behind pushing for a TSO wagon?

[Cheetory6]

decently reasoned? They were both random votes. Gribs original statment read to me like a simple conversation starter, not really worthy of scum reading. There are pages and pages of random garbage in this game.

It looked more serious when I was skimming :c
Any reason you're holding on to your jokevote vs voting for dragon who you've called scummy?

[Cheetory6]

On reread, Silver's insistence on trying to find out why Wake isn't voting feels like she genuinely wanted to know what he was thinking. I still feel like 119 is overexplainy though and I'm finding it hard to put into words why I'm finding that weird. :/

@Silver

, would you say that you anticipating playing as an IC in a newbie game is influencing some of your play/interactions with elusive? Do you consider yourself someone who generally likes to help newer plays find their footing in a game?

@Wake

, can you walk me through the reason you decided to engage other people on your thoughts on elusive rather than trying to engage her directly on her 48?

@Shinobi

, is your vote on TSO still there for a reason?

Do you still feel that Silverwolf is forcing her tone? If not, where did it stop?

Her kind of long-winded posts early on in particular struck me as seeming a little strange/forced. Most of her posts since then haven't really pinged me much and I actually kind of like her questioning of you in 318.

I wonder if Cheetory isn't putting on a show for the town

What're you even trying to say here?

Can anyone else who's played with FA before give their thoughts on his play thus far? Is he usually the sort of person to be safe with his voting?

[Cheetory6]

Viking wagon is better than dragonwagon, despite it having a cooler name. Dragon is leaning town and viking is null leaning scum.

@FA

, ignoring people is rude, y'know?

I have played with him. It's been awhile. IIRC, yes he is more conservative/safe with his vote as scum than as town.

I mean if this is true, I feel like his earlygame is pretty scummy. Getting bad vibes from his catch-up too. Is there any chance you could take a look at him?

When the person that was 'pressured' to responds fails to do so and is not in threat of lynching at the time, what is scummy about vote parking until there is a better candidate. I usually do this as well tbh and don't move my vote until there is someone that I read as scum. It is why my vote sat so long on shinobi until viking started posting like scum and the case against him pulled my vote.

This reads as using his defense of elusive to try and justify why his vote sat on Shinobi. The manner in which this was done irks me, because it feels like he's trying to indirectly respond to why I was voting for him. q.q

@FA

, are there any other reasons why you're voting for viking right now? It reads like you're saying that Dragonwagon is CW and that you think him not knowing RVS but knowing bussing is suspect, right? Who do you think would be most likely to be trying to save viking?

[Cheetory6]

FA is still scummiest to me.
People should vote him.
Silver should remember to go back and read him for me please.

[Cheetory6]

Here is a brief case before I have to run:
i) His vote was really sticky earlygame on RVS votes while he was calling other people scummy and would have had more of a basis in voting for them.
ii) At one point he defends Elusive in such a way that it comes back around and feels moreso like a defense of himself and it just looks really sleazy IMO:

When the person that was 'pressured' to responds fails to do so and is not in threat of lynching at the time, what is scummy about vote parking until there is a better candidate. I usually do this as well tbh and don't move my vote until there is someone that I read as scum. It is why my vote sat so long on shinobi until viking started posting like scum and the case against him pulled my vote.

iii) His push on Elusive now makes that defense look even worse and the push itself feels a little opportunistic. Like he was weighing what the public opinion was of Elusive before jumping on or something.

[Cheetory6]

If you couldn't vote FA who would you vote for?

I mean I probably would have voted for viking before his claim :/

Beyond that Kitz has struck me as playing kind of safe.

@Aero

, look up yoh.

[Cheetory6]

@Kitz

, I said I was on my way out the door in the post before, so I don't really understand how it's weird that I didn't drop an extensive reads list there. I also don't really see how I was being subtle either? Dragon was asking me who I was finding suspect and I gave an answer. Is that any different than what you're doing with me?
Why would you classify Piss's play thus far as being safe? I don't know if I see that from what I've seen of him this game.
Do you think Boon and ABR being weird is playing safe? Because I honestly think their play is usually the opposite of safe from what I've seen of them in this game and other games.

[Cheetory6]

I don't think you post a lot, but I think your posting is generally abrasive/naked in an unsafe way.

[Cheetory6]

Okay...
So what are you saying then? That's it's weird that I don't have the same scumreads as everyone else?

[Cheetory6]

Why.
q.q
whyhwhywhy

[Cheetory6]

The fuck.

[Cheetory6]

I think I was incorrectly reading Kitz as being a snarky quiet poster, but the quiet manner she entered the game seems to be more indicative of her being nervous in a null way? I think? New posts aren't pinging me as much.

NJ's push on her the last few pages feels pretty forced to me.
VOTE: NJ

CHeetory6, why do you have such less posts? Why?

Been having a hard time getting into this game. Getting a little burnt out. q.q

[Cheetory6]

@Klingon

, why are you voting for someone who clearly isn't going to be lynched this cycle? Also, can you give me your general read on NakedJogger? I can't find anything in your ISO which takes any kind of stance on him or his wagon.
I keep seeing things in your ISO that make me think you're abrasive town vs flailing scum, but the manner in which you're playing endcycle here feels like you might be trying to avoid anyone making useful associative tells upon flip. Why not pick one of the four people from your list, make a case and try to hardpush them? What's the motivation there, walk me through it.

@Silver

, as of right now I like NJ vote because it feels like his push for Kitz was exaggerated. It seems to me like he was forcing tone a little bit with the way he went about that and I've just been getting weird vibes from him for a little bit.

Also, someone ask me to do something. I need focus in this game and there's no way I'm going to be able to muster up the time and focus to go through the entirety of the last 60 pages.

P-Edit: I was actually wondering where Wake's been. Makes me wary that you're being so quiet again man q.q Can you take a look at NakedJogger and Klingon in particular if you get time?

[Cheetory6]

I doubt it, but Pisscop could be the cop. So

Why would you say this? :/
This kind of stuff pings town but like what the fuck >.> We have enough ridiculous bullshit claim/softclaim shit. Why would you feel the need to add more and just as justification as to why you're not voting someone? q.qq.q.q.q.q.q.q.q.q.q..q.q

[Cheetory6]

Hey, Klingcelt, does your butt hurt?

You know, from that fence you keep sitting on

Can you pull up specific instances of where you feel she's been fencesitting? [and if your answer is 'on a fence' then I will karate chop you q.q]

I also kind of want to come back to you and ask a question about something specific with Klingon, but I feel like asking it would give answers to things I'm asking her right now so..
Someone hit me in the face if I forget to ask a question about fence-sitting stuff after I get a response.

[Cheetory6]

Oh I mean I'm being rhetorical in 1485.
I want to know but I also don't actually want to know, you know?

[Cheetory6]

Zzzz.
Can you tell me what you think of NJ's initial push for Kitz? Do you have any kind of experience playing with NJ before this game?

[Cheetory6]

NJ wagon is driven off of hurt feelings

Well that's just bullshit. I literally just outlined why I was voting just like four posts ago >.>

Klingon's isn't convincingr either

What about the case on her don't you like?

Her fencesitting is in regards to her not voting or suggesting people, pisskop in particular are scummy but not voting there.

Uh cheetory It's mostly just the refusal to vote or take hard stances, among other things.

Fuck it. Do you not think her stance on House is hard? Do you think her saying that she isn't willing to vote for a replacing slot isn't true or do you think that could potentially explain why her pushes have felt relatively disinterested since then?

[Cheetory6]

Like, I'm asking if it makes sense that Klingon might have been like "hell yeah House is scum" and then when he replaced out she was like "bummer, I don't like the rest of these guys as scum as much :c". In my head it would make sense that her pushes would seem disinterested because she was more interested in another wagon, but felt like on principle that she shouldn't be voting for a slot that can't defend itself.

P-Edit: Oh shit true, I forgot that she said that she was willing to lynch those people who were replacing.
What the fuck that looks so bad q.q

VOTE: Klingon

[Cheetory6]

Most convincing thing to me about Klingon being scum is the fact that she was basically saying we should consider lynching three replacement slots and then unvoted House simply for replacing out of the game. She was clearly very convinced of scumHouse, so for her to turn around and be like "I actually care about replacement slots getting a chance to get comfy" feels gross. Something in that interaction is more than just town ridiculousness.

do we want to ask for a claim from NJ at this point for full information?

No.
If Naked claims before he's even close to L-1 I will vote him on policy of nobody else should be making dumb claims in this game.

P-Edit: Holy shit so many people are posting q.q

[Cheetory6]

Wolf should be the next lynch. She knows me well, her push is straight up scum.

Really? :/
Is this a scumclaim or are you being serious?

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: FA

[Cheetory6]

This week is nuts for me so I'm gonna be playing catch-up whenever I have time.

ABR's retracted claim is pretty ridiculous and ABR strikes me as the kind of person that might go for a high stakes bait as scum trying to bait counterclaims on a role which could be shrugged off as there being two of. With nobody biting it seems like he may have realized that he couldn't actually back it up down the road. I also feel like the timing of a hardpush on a copclaim looks really nasty with his retracted claim on top of that.

@ABR

, is there something I'm missing in your push for viking beyond weird claimstuff? With ika's clarification it doesn't really help us one way or the other, but I really don't know why we'd want to be pursuing this right now.
If a cop dies sometime down the line or gets a guilty on someone, then we'll know that it's probably fake. It also seems unlikely that scum would want to risk leaving a claimed cop alive if he is lying now that the roleblocker is dead.

VOTE: ABR

P-Edit:

Why would he. Cheeto has tunneled the crap out of me without a real case since the game started. I am simply his go-to vote.

He has barely bothered to play the game at all.

The way you're being dismissive of me, saying that I'm barely bothering to play the game while not even trying to interact with me feels like you're trying to discredit me. I posted a case on D1 and I admit it wasn't extensive but it was at least enough that for you to pull the "oh he's not trying to push me at all" card is pretty bullshit. Especially since I didn't 'tunnel' you as you're claiming. I've been busy, but fuck if this doesn't feel like an intentional misrep.

Can people please look at his ISO? I would 100% be down for an FA lynch if the momentum was there.

Case I outlined is in 801 and I can flesh it out when I have more time this weekend.

[Cheetory6]

Also what's the clear town meta on ABR?
I get that him being ridiculous is normal, but to be against a case on ABR because he's usually abrasive is very surface level analysis of the situation as a whole IMO unless I'm missing something.

[Cheetory6]

Also, if people can ask me things or tell me to look at things that would be great for when I look at this game more in-depth this weekend.

I've gotta go study now. zzzz.

[Cheetory6]

I'm looking through his ISO and see that he has a scumread on FA_Q2, but still votes Klingon with him without reconsidering the situation based on FA_Q2 voting her and goes right back to scumreading him based off of nothing.

I didn't even really know that FA had voted Klingon at the time? I thought Klingon was scum, so I voted her.
Do you think my read on her should have somehow been mitigated by my read on FA?
I'm also not scumreading FA based off of nothing. I've tried to directly engage FA a number of times, posted a case on him and his reaction has been to sideline and indirectly take potshots at me. He's pretty aware of my pushes, I'm pretty sure he's trying to shrug me off to avoid getting attention. I also didn't like his entry to this cycle.

I have to admit that I'm a little wary of the manner in which you're pushing me, in that you're not actually giving your read on FA while basically indirectly defending him. What's your read on him? Are you intentionally trying to defend him or do you just find my play thus far lacking and don't have much of a stance on him? Why not comment on literally anything I've actually directly said about him instead of just vaguely attacking me like this?

that's not even getting into the fact that he keeps making excuses not to post and figure things out.

I'm VLA right now for a reason. This morning I wrote my third midterm of this week.

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory, for the love of everything that I hold dear about the game of mafia, please get your vote in line with reality.

I'm dancing through what you're saying right now.
Hold yer frakin horses.

[Cheetory6]

ABR why didn't you respond to me? :c
I'm genuinely curious why you feel/felt like giving viking a night to figure things out wasn't worth it?
I know your vote's changed now so it's a bit of a moot point, but I get the impression you'd still want to lynch him if you felt like the momentum was there.

[Cheetory6]

I'm getting the impression that she's saying that if he's scum he'll be alive tomorrow and if not he'll be dead. It's more or less how I feel right now as well.
I don't really understand how that translates into her believing his claim?

[Cheetory6]

q.q
That's not my point. I'm trying to understand your case on Ellie.
Is it her tone or just the fact that she doesn't want to lynch viking?

[Cheetory6]

I can't tell if ABR is going insane.
I have a hard time believing that Ellie would hardpush pisskop on D1 if they were scummates.

And again, ika is exactly the kind of moderator who would include that mechanic in the game

Can you elaborate on this?

also UNVOTE: , VOTE: TSO if cheetory is V/LA

I'm more or less here now. Can you talk with me about why you're unvoting me here? It's probably something simple, I just want to know exactly why because I want to understand where you're coming from right now.

[Cheetory6]

I totally didn't forget about all that stuff with ellie defending elusive/estival/whatever the heck her name is.
Totally definitely didn't.
Zzzzz.

I need coffee.

[Cheetory6]

I said a missing puzzle piece could explain my posts, and that I doubt elusive would be lynched. Both statements are 100% true. Hardly my fault you guys misinterpreted.

Exactly where did you say this?

[Cheetory6]

UNVOTE:

[Cheetory6]

It's more the indirect manner in which you've chosen to deal with me up until this point that bugs me.
You're clearly aware that I've been scumreading you, so why go to the effort to call my case and play shit to other people but not say it directly to me or try to convince me that I'm wrong? I agree with you that I don't think people are considering you at all, which is why I'm trying to decide what I think of what's actually getting talked about right now rather than apparently just dumbly trying to push you and everyone ignoring it.

If you're so sure that ellie and VK are scum together, why aren't you voting ellie instead?

[Cheetory6]

So you were making a joke? What was the joke supposed to be?

[Cheetory6]

@FA

, I think circumstances are different between D1-D2 and D2-D3 with VK given that roleblocker/doc is dead. I think scum will save a lynch if he's town.

@goodmorning

, I dislike ABR's tinfoilhat stuff as much as the next rational human being, but I have a much easier time imagining crazy townABR over crazy scumABR doing that.

I keep looking at ellie's not-joke not-claim and my head just hurts.

[Cheetory6]

Caps lock is for chumps btw.
Shift master race.

[Cheetory6]

Scum will save a lynch if we mislynch anyone...This is not an argument unique to VF or explain anything townie he has done.

Save a lynch as in they'll kill him for us. Pretend VF is town. No matter how tasty VF is for a mislynch, no scum with any kind of brain would leave a claimed cop alive when they have no way to stop investigations.
If he flips the investigations are canonical.
I really don't see how waiting until D3 to sort this out will do anything but potentially clear/damn someone or save us a lynch on VK via nightkill.

[Cheetory6]

@Ellie

, my read on you is currently super muddled and your explanations feel like they're intentionally trying to keep me at arm's length here.
I don't really want to lend credence to whatever the fuck ABR is talking about, but there are arguably strange things you've done this game that I don't understand.
I really need you to explain that interaction around elusive on D1 in a more clear way and I'd also like for you to talk at me about you being willing to vote for Viking at L-1 while saying that you think he's town.
Walk me through the thought processes in both situations.

[Cheetory6]

More I look at her interactions with pisskop on D1, the more it looks like scum distancing to me.
She makes a vocal point to direct everyone's attention to pisskop being scummy multiple times, but doesn't vote for him initially. It feels more like posturing than anything.

pisskop, you seem like you want people to think you're town, but are actually scum.

This is the measured response of scum trying to look unruffled.

I just feel like the manner in which she's pushing pisskop feels fake and seems very intentionally loud. Like "LOOK AT HOW NOT SCUMMATES PISSKOP AND I ARE".

Look at the difference between her scumread on pisskop and her reads on literally everyone else now. It really comes across like she doesn't know how to come across as strongly with a fake scumread on someone when it was comparatively much easier to do it on D1 when it was just on someone that she knows is scum.

The elusive defense on flip stuff is weird and while weird isn't necessarily scummy, her inability to explain exactly what she was trying to do/being dodgy is general feels pretty off.

VOTE: Ellie

I like this vote. c:

[Cheetory6]

Oh and cheetory does being voted motivate you to vote?

Yeup.
Now that you've moved your vote:
UNVOTE:

If any scum distancing was going on it was between pisskop and dragonspawn. Or are you not reading the effing ISO, cheetory?

Why would I have noticed distancing between pisskop and dragonspawn while ISOing Ellie?
If you're referring to another ISO, then you're right, I'm not reading the effing ISO.

I'm seriously getting fucking sick of people dismissing everything I say without actually responding to anything I'm saying. -.-

Based on what I know of Ellie and her play, she is not scum.

OH. Thank goodness I can just take your word for it.
Thanks elusive.
Really helped me see the light here.

Also,
VOTE: Ellie

[Cheetory6]

Lol.
I don't have any original reads/thoughts? That's just a fucking misrep and a half.
I'm speaking in nonsense? Fucking hilarious coming from you.

[Cheetory6]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Cheetory6]

God you are just so fucking rude.
I'm trying to not respond in kind but you're making it really challenging. q.q

Actually, some of cheetory in ISO is decent. Cheetory, why aren't you pushing NJ today? Especially since pisskop was very resistant to it and you responded to him stating why you thought it was a good wagon? And your follow up on the FA issue? ABR states, without a damn reason, that FA and Shinobi and some others are town. You seem to scumread him so what are your thoughts on his reads?

Been trying to focus on what most people are talking about so my attention hasn't really been on NJ. His push on Kitz was kind of off, but nothing he's said this cycle has really pinged me all that much. Pisskop being very resistant to his wagon strikes me as being too obvious as other people have said. I'd need to ISO him again to feel confident on any kind of read on him and I just don't really feel like it right now.

I was paranoid of ABR's claim retraction, but he's grabbing too much attention and it makes me lean that he's less likely to be scum. Shinobi is probably town so I don't really disagree with his read there and I don't know why he's townreading FA so I don't know whether I disagree or not?

[Cheetory6]

OH wow the more I look at cheetory6's post the more I see nonsense. Wow. Really? You have no fucking clue do you?

Hi im not rude at all.

[Cheetory6]

You didn't even bother to read my ISO in detail before saying it was empty sheepy nonsense.
Sorry if I'm a little pissy when I've been trying to keep caught up in this game and people keep taking lame potshots at me.

[Cheetory6]

I've been borderline burnt out for a while because I've been in too many games.
This game's pace is ridiculously fast and it's really noisy and there are a lot of really ridiculous claims and other bullshit going on.

I'm not trying to lurk. I'm just finding it ridiculously hard to stay engaged and give a shit at this point.
Prodding at me in an annoying way until I'm angry isn't going to help.
Please don't. q.q

[Cheetory6]

Whatever.
I still think Ellie is scum. I think you're being naive about how plausible it is for someone to be able to bus. Especially since Ellie was so loud about it and was so willing to compromise in other places and we haven't seen anything like that from her this cycle.
It's the best feeling I've had this entire cycle and you shouting "Ellie is town" doesn't make me feel anything different.

[Cheetory6]

Are you asking me if Elusive is worth rope or someone else? If so, probably like a 3?
I don't know if I understand your scale though lol..

Why would Ellie bus someone who was not on the radar and nor had a wagon on them? Why?

I think she thought that it seemed obvious that he was scum and that it would be worth tons of towncred to be the first to push him.

[Cheetory6]

What benefit does scum have to bussing on of their own when the KC wagon was in full swing or the VF or DS wagon? It's illogical.

She also wasn't really only pushing pisskop. She was pushing NJ on the premise of piss being scum. It just seems like she was being too blatant with all of the connections she was making relating back to him. It feels too loud and intentional and comes across as being fake to me.

even based on the pisskop\dragonspawn interactions he was doing better then several people (including for example vikingfan and pisskop's hard defense of VF is partially why I think VF is not a priority since it seemed like pisskop was actually setting up to benefit from a VF town flip).

But I think that's exactly why she'd do it. What's the risk to take if people aren't going to listen when you're bussing? Get all the towncred later when people start paying more attention to piss and let all of the other lynches go forward.

Like, I get that she could just be town that got it on the mark D1, I just feel like her being scum and the manner in which she approached pushing for piss vs the manner in which she's approached pushing for anyone else since is vastly different in a way that makes me think those interactions were biased by information she has via her alignment and the best explanation for that is that she's scum.

[Cheetory6]

her being an issue today when there are actual people to focus on is what is bothering me

Who are the actual people to focus on?

[Cheetory6]

I like the vibes from this game thus far.

Look how naive I was.

[Cheetory6]

Viking's vote on NJ is garbage.

[Cheetory6]

If you're actually the cop, you're doing a really shitty job of trying to convince people to keep you alive -.-

[Cheetory6]

Are there other reasons that you're voting for him?
It looked to me like you were just saying that he was being toxic and thus should be voted out.

[Cheetory6]

What the fuck happened that there are twelve new pages.

[Cheetory6]

Zzzz.
VOTE: ABR
That was a nice gambit. I hope scumteam is big enough that you found it to be worth it on D2 in a game this big -.-

@Kitz

, you realize that Shinobi is basically the closest thing we have to confirmed town right now, right?

[Cheetory6]

Viking cleared him?

[Cheetory6]

Or wait am I just stupid?

[Cheetory6]

I'm dumb. You're right.
Shinobi's still probably town because I don't think ABR would fake-investigate him if he was his scummate.

[Cheetory6]

Why would ABR suicide as SK?

[Cheetory6]

Oooo are we doing gimmick posting?
I've got an idea for my gimmick: I'll be annoyed that I'm in this game and every post will reflect that.
This is fun.
-.-

Wake should start doing things to get people off his case. The quickhammer makes me feel like he's more likely to be town, especially since I'm pretty sure ABR is scum and it'd be batshit insane for both of them to pull that much risky dumbassery on the same day cycle if they were scummates.

[Cheetory6]

elusive, I don't really understand what you mean when you say we shouldn't kill ABR right now? :/

[Cheetory6]

Orrrr you could try and make the game less annoying to you??

We've had like ten thousand claims this game already and it's only D3, Math has turned into a troll orc creature, a bunch of people were being outrageously toxic last cycle, ABR did hilariously silly scumcounterclaim antics, Naked is scratching his itchy balls, you were spewing all caps D2 and the pace of this game is way faster than it deserves to be. Sorry if I'm a little pissy, but I think I'm a little justified in my annoyance here.

Orrrrrrr it could be multiball?

I'll worry about if it's multifaction once there's any kind of direct evidence that it's multifaction. It's possible that there's a serial killer in this game, but I don't think quickhammering or CCing the cop is something that a serial killer would risk.

Do you think ABR then should be put down today?

Yes.

What motivations or reasoning do you see in ABR getting VF killed in such a flashy way?

I think he realized that his retracted claim was going to limit his time in this game to 1-2 cycles, so why not try and force some claims/try to get the cop lynched on the way out? I feel that ABR could feel the fire at his feet because of how hard he fumbled a fakeclaim, thus resulting in him saying "fuck it" and going out with a bang.

The reason I'm asking is that I played in a game (MathBlade where you were Magical Girl) a scum wanted to get lynched because it had a role in that it was revived three days later. So what benefit does ABR get from doing something that will lead to a lynch if it was scum? Either scum with a special role or some kind of sk\third party\jester?

I'm not worrying about that kind of stuff because this game is Normal.

[Cheetory6]

I think he's trolling.

[Cheetory6]

Seriously, though, why don't you try being as the rock in the stream or some shit like that?

I don't know what this means.

You mean direct evidence like viking's claim that he was shot and saved? I mean, it could be 6-1-V, I guess.

I think I'm just kind of hoping that this game isn't multifaction because I've been playing too many games with two scumfactions lately and it makes reading people fucking hard. I'd prefer to operate on the assumption that I'm not going to have to deal with scum who can legitimately try and scumhunt for now for the sake of my own sanity.

Large Normal games are allowed 2 Roles/Modifiers that are not explicitly Normal.

They can't make the game bastard or anything though. I seriously doubt ika put in something like a reviver or a jester.

Cheetory6, I'm fine with an ABR death today but not until everyone posts in thread and we get some real content. I do not want to rush it.

I don't disagree.

Can you remind me where your vote was yesterday?

I wasn't caught up when the stuff happened at the end of the cycle, but I was voting for Ellie before she claimed. I think if I had been there I honestly would have voted for Viking. He seemed scummier than ABR to me. After flip I was pretty sure that both ABR and Ellie were scum and Ellie was fakeclaiming/pulling shenanigans, but I was wrong. zzz

Also, if its Normal then do you agree that everyone who thought or actively argued VF couldn't be the cop because of his doc heal claim is on something that is probably not Truthiness?

I mean, the doctoring stuff was legitimately pretty off. That isn't something that I've ever seen in forum mafia, so I think people were reasonable in thinking that it was unusual at best that mechanics like that would be in a normal and not in a theme game. I'd be surprised if the entire VF wagon was town, but I don't think it's full of scum either.

[Cheetory6]

After this colossal disaster, I don't know what to say, really. Sometimes, you're wrong. Sometimes you're odds of winning a hand are 96% and the 4% card comes out on the river. It happens. I'm not beating myself up about it.

Okay.

The thing that I absolutely 100% don't buy is that you saw Ellie claim back-up cop and instead of being like "lol okay whatever scum" you took her claim seriously. Why would you do that? You were scumreading her and then all of a sudden you buy her claim? And if you did buy her claim, why would you still counterclaim cop? What possible town motivation would you have? You have clear evidence that there's probably a cop in the game. Even if Viking was lying, you still risk the possibility of outting the real cop. I can't fucking buy that man. Even in the case that you legitimately believe that Viking is scum it's still ridiculously anti-town for you to claim cop when you're not cop if you believe Ellie's claim, which it made no sense for you to do so.

P-Edit: What.

[Cheetory6]

Are you fucking joking dude?
Lol.

[Cheetory6]

You called her scum right before you claimed though q.q
q.q
Why would your read on her change?

[Cheetory6]

Oh.
Ohhhhhhh.
I think I understand.

VOTE: MathBlade

ABR might still be scum, but I believe that he's a tracker.

[Cheetory6]

Because a serial killer is the kind of role you want to leave alive?

[Cheetory6]

I'm reasonably confident that Math just doesn't give a fuck anymore because she knows that ABR is gonna flip some kind of tracker and then she's dead next.
If she hadn't slipped the whole bulletproof thing then maybe she could have played it off as her being vig.
I don't know why she assumed so quickly that ABR would be town just because he'd tracked her?
Unless I'm entirely off-base here in which case I have no fucking idea what's happening anymore.

[Cheetory6]

So I'm scum for voting you, but anyone who wants to kill ABR over you is scum, but you wanting to be dead means that my argument that you're probably SK isn't true, but I am a chicken.

I think I just did meth.

[Cheetory6]

Math, you've claimed that you have bulletproof.
ABR is claiming you targetted Ellie last night cycle and you started by flipping out and calling him confirmed scum before slowly resigning yourself to "he is town".
I think it's reasonably clear that you know that ABR is telling the truth and I can't think of another role that's bulletproof and can target things. Especially not in a normal game.

[Cheetory6]

TSO you said you were townreading ABR a while ago.
Why are you voting him over Math if you think I'm right? :/

Oh no. He is lying and town unfortunately and I can't believe I am trying to save his derptastic ass from the eventual fire. But one more night with his results is protown.

What?
jfc I don't understand where in the fuck you're coming from here q.q
So he's lying, he's town, but he's going to get results? So you think he's lying about his results on you? How do you know that? Why are you bulletproof and why do you suddenly think ABR is town? I don't fucking understand anything that's happening anymore and I'm about to lock my vote the fuck down and close my eyes and ears because that makes more sense to me than anything anyone is saying anymore.

[Cheetory6]

So you think he potentially tracked you to no one and is pretending that you targeted someone when you didn't and you think he's trying to help us by doing so?
Why isn't he just a VT lying about being a tracker then? Why are you suddenly so confident that the guy who Lance Armstronged the shit out of this game is telling a halftruth when there's nothing to indicate that this is the case?

I am bulletproof because of my role PM.

Okay..

[Cheetory6]

Zzzzz. ABR probably lying about Math is just like the icing on the cake. I'm pretty sad with this game right now
I'm pretty okay with an NJ lynch, but it would almost entirely be on policy of I will be sad if he's scum and he's just sitting back and watching us all be fucking dumb. I'm happy to throw my vote there if that's what everyone wants to do, but I'm legitimately almost 100% convinced that TSO is scum based on how he handled ABR last cycle.

He spent a long time in this game trying to established that this was definitely ABR's towngame. Let's follow the train of thought:

ABR is so blatantly town, gm.

Fakeclaiming twice as scum? No.

His play aligns 100% with what he says, too - Shinobi and vikingfan have been clearly stated as what his role says they must be.

Actually, his constant lies point to ABR-town.

There's no way Ellie isn't scum, there's no way ABR and Ellie are teammates - therefore ABR is town.

I do not know what this means and think you want ABR-scum more than you believe it.

2824 is the first sign of any kind of possible doubt in ABR, but it's followed up with by this:

But I still think you're town because that shitty retarded gambit is what you would do as town.

You shouldn't have done it.

ANDDDD:

quite sure he's town to be honest

This is all fine and dandy. "Why does someone townreading ABR have to be a big deal?" Oh I don't know, maybe because he fucking changes his mind out of no where and becomes okay with ABR lynch on policy:

well the good news is either abr or mb is scum

"I still believe your claim":

Yeah, ABR, I am warning you - if we lynch you and you flip Tracker and this result was a lie too the entire game will blacklist you. And they'd be right to.

"I believe you made a mistake and that you're not scum"

ABR let's not get into counting your mistakes, there has been more than one.

And then this is the fucking icing on the cake. When I put forth that ABR might be scum tracker and Math might be SK, TSO instantly takes on the weirdest fucking stance. He clearly thinks that ABR is town, and then all of a sudden he starts saying that ABR is probably the scum tracker here:

Because a Scum tracker is exactly the kind of PR you want to leave alive!

And then he agrees with my analysis, but instead of voting for someone who seems like they're SK? He votes for ABR? Why? That makes absolutely 0 sense from his perspective if he's town. There's still a very reasonable chance that ABR is town tracker in his eyes and thus Math should be confirmed SK to him, but he doesn't follow through with that.

And then this is the real nail in the coffin:

I can make no sense of these interactions unless Cheetory's right - and if Cheetory's right then I'd rather not give ABR the chance to get information for the scumteam tonight.

His read on ABR has flipped for absolutely no fucking reason.
AND.
When asked about it, he can't even fucking come up with one reason as to why:

Because either he dies from vig or lynch and the vig could do better than shooting him.

Why would you go out of your way to blatantly defend someone as town, to blatantly call them scum tracker at the end of a cycle when it makes no sense to? I'll tell you why. Because TSO is fucking scum.

VOTE: TSO

[Cheetory6]

God it feels good to write a case on someone that I actually fucking understand.

[Cheetory6]

That's great and all, but what do you think of TSO right now?

[Cheetory6]

Based on interaction, I think he's either independent or teamed with someone he shown odd rivalry to

What interactions make you feel this way?

[Cheetory6]

If you pay attention, you'll see a psuedo rivalry, cases of ignorance depending on who's appropriate of answering, buddying, etc.
So based on that rivalry, could be a team mate, or they could be different factions.

Can you point out a specific example of this? I'm having a hard time following what you're trying to say here.

However, I'm calling out on TSO for this current statement.

This is worth calling out but my case in which his read on ABR opportunistically changes out of no where isn't worth a second glance? Did you read 3683?

[Cheetory6]

I doubt there's anymore investigative roles, but if he was an investigative he would have voted for Math in the post he agreed with me.
Voting for ABR in that context makes no sense.

The biggest issue is that there is no reason/transition between his hard townread on ABR to his "I would be willing to lynch it"/"I think he's scum tracker"
The more I think about it, the more it seems like the transition came after ABR claimed a PR. Like TSO realized that if ABR lived he would be a liability, so he changed his read.
I think his stance on ABR came from an informed perspective and he changed it when it became inconvenient to keep ABR alive anymore.

I'll check out TSO/Shinobi interactions when I have some more time.

[Cheetory6]

Yes, the moment Cheetory's case stopped making sense was when he said I'd prefer town-ABR dead than SK-Math as scum.

Go on.
Also, why were you entertaining the idea of scumABR if you were basically championing him being town for like two day cycles in a row?
You still haven't given any kind of legitimate reasoning for that. Your response to that was dodgy as hell, making it seem more like a policy vote than a scumread vote. I really feel like you believed that ABR was town, which makes your sudden consideration of him as a mafia tracker absolutely baffling to me.

[Cheetory6]

Silver, what's making you lean town on TSO?
Do you disagree that his transitioned read on ABR is ridiculously sketchy?

[Cheetory6]

I'd be willing to compromise on NJ, but it'd be one of those sad "I don't actually feel strongly about this" compromise votes.
I feel really really good about TSO scum right now.
The way he's reacting to people feels like he's trying to discredit anyone who's giving any possible credence to the idea of him being scum right now. I actually kind of also remember that kind of reaction to people earlier in the game as well. Might take a look for that when I dive Shinobi/TSO interactions.

[Cheetory6]

To me, it sort of looks like he thinks ABR is town for awhile, then he's not sure, and then at a certain point simply decides that he's scum and that he was wrong.

That would be valid, if it weren't for the follow-up here after I ask him why he started scumreading ABR:

TSO you said you were townreading ABR a while ago.
Why are you voting him over Math if you think I'm right? :/.

Because either he dies from vig or lynch and the vig could do better than shooting him.

That isn't deciding that he was wrong and that ABR is scum. That's him more or less saying that it's a policy vote and there's no reasoning in there as to why ABR is likely scum.

[Cheetory6]

His stance on ABR switched immediately upon the claim, and if lying made him feel like ABR was more likely to be town, I don't know why he would reverse his stance on him at that point. It really feels to me like he was trying to push through a lynch on a PR that he legitimately believed. It was safe to defend ABR when he seemed like VT. The moment that he claimed a PR he was too dangerous to be left alive.

[Cheetory6]

@Kitz

, I wouldn't mind a fresh re-iterated case on NJ. I really would rather be able to trace someone else's scumread on him than try to sort through his ISO again with no specific reference points to look at.

[Cheetory6]

basically Dragonspawn is trying too hard to look town

Could you give specific examples of where you're seeing this?

[Cheetory6]

Because he hadn't claimed yet?
ABR basically admits the copclaim was bullshit, thus implying that he's VT and TSO remains a believer in townABR.
ABR claims tracker and then suddenly TSO becomes much more interested in the lynch.

[Cheetory6]

ABR claimed Tracker day one.

I don't get what your point here is supposed to be. A lot of things happened between the time of that claim and D3. Including ABR retracting his tracker claim?

This is the most ridiculous thing ever.

Why do you keep ignoring the main question I'm asking you? I have yet to hear a single reason as to why your read on ABR 180ed.

[Cheetory6]

My point is that if I was so scared of ABR-tracker then I would have gone for him when he claimed d1 as scum, no?

There was also a copclaim? There were also more people in the game at that point?

Can you also explain why I would want ABR dead when, if I was scum, I had him wrapped around my little finger to the point I was almost certain not to be tracked?

Maybe to protect other scummates? You might have a point here, but that still doesn't explain why your read on him just randomly switched for no reason.

[Cheetory6]

-.-

[Cheetory6]

Okay, look, I'm not going to be able to realistically argue on a level this semantic. The core issue here is that you're being really sketchy with answering something that should be really easy to answer. If I'm misunderstanding something it shouldn't take 10-20 posts for you to clarify said misunderstanding.

[Cheetory6]

My last few posts have been ideas as to why you were doing what you were doing. I'm not realistically going to be able to know exactly what your motivations or the direct intentions behind each of your actions were because I don't know the full picture yet.
I'm brainstorming because your read on ABR changed in a manner that makes 0 sense to me if you're town, so I'm trying to fill in the blanks as to why you did what you did. Before you attack the details of what I'm saying, you should focus on the reason why I believe you're scum in the first place. Because otherwise it looks like you're just trying to dismantle my argument instead of actually trying to convince me that you're not scum.

[Cheetory6]

Also the subdued way you're trying to argue with me seems out of character q.q

[Cheetory6]

But why would lynching a tracker which could be of either alignment be better than lynching a bulletproof SK? There was no guarantee that a vigilante would be able to kill MathBlade [who had claimed bulletproof] while there was a near 100% guarantee that a vigilante would be able to kill town/scum tracker ABR.

[Cheetory6]

A mixture of annoyance, anger at lies and paranoia will do that to you.

At one point you said him lying made him more likely to be town. What made you change your mind?

[Cheetory6]

Because we could have leashed MathBlade, whereas we couldn't leash ABR.

I don't remember you saying anything along those lines at any point though :/
Why didn't you vocalize that?

[Cheetory6]

A multitude of lies - and like I've said, paranoia etc.

Why didn't you say any of this on D3? You made it sound more like a policy vote when I asked you about it.

[Cheetory6]

So your motivations for voting for ABR were partially apathy then? You wanted the cycle to be over sort of dealio?

[Cheetory6]

Hopefully the tone of this game will get better from here -.-..

@TSO

, can you pitch me what you believe is the difference between your scumgame and your towngame?
Would you also mind linking me a towngame or two? I want to make sure I'm not just getting caught up on general metatells rather than scumtells from metadiving.

@All else

, can everyone give me their read on TSO and why?
I don't entirely believe some of the stuff he was saying in response to me, particularly that he believed that we could leash Mathblade. I think that's reasoning he's putting forward in hindsight to overjustify why he was doing what he was doing. I asked him for specific reasoning as to why he wanted to lynch ABR over Math before deadline and there was no indication as to that being a part of the reason:

Because either he dies from vig or lynch and the vig could do better than shooting him.

Like, I just feel like his explanation today as to what he was doing on D3 feels too elaborate and thought-out for someone who was apathetic and disinterested in what was going on. I think he's trying to adjust to look better after having played in a scummy/sloppy manner. Why wouldn't he immediately responded to me with "I just didn't care that much after all the shit that had happened" instead of "these are all of the actual reasons why an ABR lynch made a bunch of sense that I didn't actually say before voting for him"? It just feels dishonest.

Furthermore, I've started doing a bit of a metadive and I'm seeing a lot of things from NY 178 that seem somewhat familiar to this game (being able to get angry at things, getting into big fights with people he perceives as being unreasonable). Given that he generally eluded everyone's detection as scum in that game, I'm curious as to what exactly is making him seem like he isn't scum to everyone right now?
Can someone with more meta experience with him give some thoughts on what his towngame is like as well?

[Cheetory6]

First clue, I'm suspicious of the interaction between TSO and Shinobi.

Only thing that stood out to me is just the initial strategy Shinobi used to open the game and that just kind of made me lean that they're somewhat less likely to be linked. So I'm not really sure what you were seeing there..?
Can you point out something specific in their interactions that you thought was suspicious?

I am trying not to snap here, but I am basically at the end of my tether in response to talking about me being scum and I'm not going to be doing that anymore.

What exactly is worth snapping at? You've kind of put me in a lame place where if I push my case on you anymore, then I'm being an asshole to you. Smart move if you're scum, kind of lame if you're not.

NS getting called out on his Aero push looking bad and then ignoring the callout and still continuing to push that same detail makes me actually lean town on him, but he should start playing more.

[Cheetory6]

I actually feel like I should look into my last few games with TSO. Something is bugging me

P-edit: Uh yea

.. go on..

:/

Please lynch that^ please I can't look at it anymore

zzzzz.
I really fail to see how awkward tone is scummy Aero. Unless this is stereotypically different from how dragon usually sounds, I don't really see what the case is here.

[Cheetory6]

This game is boring.
I don't miss the fucking trainwreck that this game was a few cycles ago, but did we really have to slip onto the other end of the spectrum into watching paint dry territory?

Hi Dragon, tell me about GM. Is it just the gloating bit that you were talking about that made you feel like she's scum or is there more to it than that?

[Cheetory6]

Also, if you could be a pal and give me your TSO read that'd be just lovely.

[Cheetory6]

Only other case I can get behind right now is the pre-replace-out case on Wake.
With ABR/NakedJogger/Math all having flipped town, I think that quickhammer he did may have just been an attempt to capitalize on the stupid shit that was happening.
I'm still trying to decide how I feel about his replace out in general, because I can see the angle of him being town that just doesn't want to have to give a shit anymore, but it did kind of feel like he was being a bit too intentionally loud about that detail.

makes a lot of sense as a pisskop partner.

Can you pull up specific examples of where you see this?

[Cheetory6]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
VOTE: FA
Momentummmmmm.

[Cheetory6]

Continue to let scum select your lynches for you and see where that leads.

Yeah no this is probably a good lynch.
While FA is possibly just being a hypocrite, I just think this sentiment is scum bullshit trying to derail a wagon. I could see the angle of someone being demotivated at this point and being like "fuck it whatever", but this is bitter in a way that doesn't make any kind of sense.

I also kind of want to believe that maybe I was on the right track at the start of the game and just got distracted c:

[Cheetory6]

Also, Silver, that analysis is great and all and the sheer effort of it at a point in the game where scum can just coast around makes me lean that you're being genuine here, but I just don't really see what the overall point of it is? Like, I just don't get it.
Is it just for us to trace your train of thought with the analysis you've done? Because it just kind of looks like you end up at "I don't really feel strongly about any of this" if I'm not mistaken?

[Cheetory6]

Also also, I like how FA picks and chooses what he responds to on this last page.
TSO's newbie case against him is pretty bad and if he was legitimately mad at people pushing him, I think he would be pushing back on those points as well. The lack of pushback makes me think he feels awkward trying to directly interact with TSO/wants to make it seem like his points pushing for him aren't as bad as they are.
I think TSO/FA as scummates would kind of make sense.

[Cheetory6]

Can someone talk to me about Cheetory? Because I've reached before when I've tunnelled as town, but my fucking god his latest stuff is like leaping a chasm.

Or you could talk to me about it instead of just trying to reach out to everyone else to discredit me here? Why are you asking everyone but me about it if you're legitimately interested in sorting me? Is the only point that you're calling a stretch my connection between you/FA? If so this post is a HUGEEEE exaggeration [which I'm almost positive it intentionally is -.-].
God I wish I could just fucking dayvig you. I'm baffled that nobody else is seeing how scummy you are right now.
If I'm somehow wrong and I just can't read you then I'll apologize postgame, but I'll honestly be fucking shocked if I'm wrong about this.

He didn't come up with reasons until later.

I didn't 'come up with reasons later'. I voted because the game was stalling and needed momentum. My vote is still on you because I don't entirely believe the AtEish manner in which you're responding to this pressure on you.
Give me your reads on TSO/goodmorning.

Wasn't sure about FA earlier but the sheer lack of people opposing the lynch has me guessing he is town.

:/ This is pretty weak surface level analysis. Have you even read the case on him? What do you think of his actual reaction to the wagon?

considering his wagon is slowing down and his reaction read town to me

How? Are you joking?
How did his reaction read town to you? -.-

[Cheetory6]

Like, I'm not gonna lie, I probably was stretching a bit, and FA/TSO connection might actually be stupid because 4062 doesn't look like scum/scum level interactions, but holy shit the way TSO chose to engage that feels fucking gross.

[Cheetory6]

Maybe because I fucking explained stuff to you the first time, and it didn't change your views? I first beat your argument, then sought to talk to you about it non-aggressively, and you basically said "oh thanks for that" and continued pushing it anyway? The exact same thing? Why would I then waste my time "talking" to you again when you're obviously convinced you've caught the mighty scum-TSO who is SO good at this game that just about everyone has gone after him at some stage for paranoia?

"Why would you waste your time talking to me?"
So this is entirely about how people perceive you and not about trying to figure out whether I'm town or scum?
You're clearly talking like you're finding me unreasonable, but at the same time you're trying to frame it like "oh man maybe he's kind of suspicious guyz..."
If you had any kind of actual interest in sorting me you wouldn't be approaching this like this. You just want to make people calling you out look bad/stupid/scummy. That's entirely your goal right now and it's so fucking transparent.

As well as that, he's also read NY 178, and apparently sees parallels. We're never told what these parallels are. We're never told if he's seen my towngame (I doubt he meta'd it).

Lol. This is why you're full of shit. Here are the parallels I saw:

(being able to get angry at things, getting into big fights with people he perceives as being unreasonable)

If you actually gave a fuck about how I was perceiving you, you would have given me a towngame to look at or answering any of my questions, but instead you just kind of shrugged me off and said "do it yourself".

Cheetory opens the day with a big-ass case on me, which is basically saying I immediately wanted ABR dead when he claimed Tracker d3.
I respond by explaining why that makes no sense.
He says that I am also discrediting anyone attacking me.
I go on to then explain how the crux of his case, quite literally, makes no sense.
Cheetory ...dismisses me addressing the core of his case being wrong as semantics.
I call bullshit on that. - in essence, winning the argument.

Oh my fucking god this is hard misrep.
The core of my case is the CHANGE ITSELF AND NOT THE FACT THAT I CAN'T EXPLAIN WHY YOU WOULD CHANGE. God this is so fucking bullshit because I know you're framing this in a way to make it look like I have no case when I do.

He's tried a bunch of scummy ways to get me off his case, first he tried saying "oh man you're being real town about this" -buddying, then when I didn't stop there "oh mannnn more people are just getting on my case because of NY 178 blah blah blah" - AtE and now he's OMGUSing because he knows that if he keeps me around I'm going to start becoming more convincing and more people have expressed sentiment that we should off him. It's so clear to me. I was unsure for a bit, but now I'm 100% sold.

Fucking. Pleaseeee sheep this. If I'm wrong then lynch me. That's how fucking sure I am that he's full of shit right now.
VOTE: TSO
Lynch me or him. I don't care at this point. Just lynch him tomorrow.

[Cheetory6]

Like I may be wordy, unconvincing or wrong about details, but my gut is fucking roaring and it wants TSO blood and I won't fucking settle for less at this point.
So if you're prepared to find a wagon that won't exist on either myself or TSO then SHIT THAT SUCKS.
I'm not going to be a part of it anymore.

[Cheetory6]

Dragon why does TSO feel town to you.
Articulate it.

[Cheetory6]

Oh and before TSO bitches to try and OMGUS a case against me, I did skim his ISO in Street Racers on Friday and there wasn't anywhere near as much bullshit as what he's doing this game.

[Cheetory6]

ugh.

[Cheetory6]

Can people really not see it? q.q
Like seriously?
I've put so much into trying to convey how it feels really obvious to me and everyone is just ignoring it.
q.q

I get so much fucking bitching rights if you guys let this go and it turns out I'm right.

[Cheetory6]

Skim his ISO in NY178 and tell me that him being annoyed is a good reason to townread him.

What wagon on TSO?
When has there ever been a wagon on him?

[Cheetory6]

His town game can be annoyed but it isn't dramatically annoyed like this. This was showboating.

He's not actually trying to sort people in the game or be critical. His entire reaction to me screams self-preservation and slandering for the purposes of derailing momentum on him.

His flipflop on ABR is sketchy at fucking best no matter how hard he tries to move the goalposts on my argument there.
I don't know why he flipflopped, but he did and it was bullshit.
His reasoning adjusted like 3 times from "oh this is like 9 reasons why it was a good reason to vote ABR" to "I don't care" to "I don't remember".

[Cheetory6]

Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
If people don't see what you're doing there I don't know what to say.

I'm done.

[Cheetory6]

The core of my case is the CHANGE ITSELF AND NOT THE FACT THAT I CAN'T EXPLAIN WHY YOU WOULD CHANGE.

His flipflop on ABR is sketchy at fucking best no matter how hard he tries to move the goalposts on my argument there.

If people can't see that you're moving the goalposts of this argument every fucking time to try and make it look like you 'won an argument' when really you only one a largely unimportant aspect of the larger argument then I want to lose at this point.

[Cheetory6]

It's not that you simply can't explain it - I've shown that, as scum, I had no reason to do it, as ABR alive only benefited me. Your case falls to pieces right there because every single time you fail to explain this, and you attempt to paper over those cracks by yelling loudly that I'm scum, and you're willing to die for the cause to prove this.

You haven't shown a reason why you would do it as town either which makes your point null. My overarching point is that the read itself makes no sense and the transition itself makes no sense to me and the reasoning you keep giving for the change keeps changing slightly. That you keep acting like this isn't a big deal still while throwing shit back at me for getting mad at you for ignoring it is really fucking frustrating and I'm getting tired of it.

I might be dumb. I might articulate things poorly. But I know when I'm right. I'm just bad at explaining it.

[Cheetory6]

And a mislynch is still a mislynch.
I don't understand why that isn't reasoning to want to push a lynch on ABR.

[Cheetory6]

Fuck this is so lame.
I hate that you're being really smart about this and I'm just being clumsy so nobody cares.

[Cheetory6]

I think it's unfair in general that I feel like I'm right here and I just don't know how to combine the words to make it make sense.

[Cheetory6]

I really feel like you're scum.
I feel like you're smart scum trying to slowly try careful and cautious methods to undermine me.
I feel like your change on ABR was bullshit and I can't articulate in a conveyable way why.
I feel like some of your anger this game has been exaggerated for affect.
Can I logically argue any of these points in a convincing way?
Not really.
I have no smoking gun.
I don't think you're being unfair. I just think you're scum. And I'm sad at myself for being shitty at making it clear to other people.

[Cheetory6]

I have shown my motivation as town for it, which basically was apathy and anger.

Yeah except that was reasoning you added later after being prodded about it.
Your initial reasoning had no mention of apathy or anger, it was entirely logical.

Fuck whatever.
I'm not going to win this fight.

[Cheetory6]

This post seems especially odd amidst your TSO Crusade. Explain it.

I don't really get the escalation up to this point. Yes, I get that people aren't seeing what you're seeing but I've seen TSO be way more antagonistic in games.
Do you have reads on other people? Have any changed? I feel like you've spent the whole day just ranting about TSO and not giving us much more than that.

"So I may spout extensive lines of bullshit that doesn't fool anyone, but I really wanna rush into another lynch without evidence because the town isn't doing bad enough. I don't even care if I die trying, I want TSO dead because I wanna follow my heart!"

Like how fucking blatant does everyone have to be with not taking me seriously? No where in these shitty directed posts are you even entertaining my case on TSO for a second or trying to understand where I'm coming from.
This entire game I feel like most have people have been ignoring so much of what I've been saying and I'm getting pretty fucking sick of it.
All of D1 the only time someone mentioned me was just to say "look how uninteresting and dumb his posts are".
And like every time I try to say someone is scummy I just feel like I've been being ignored and it fucking blows.

I'm so tired of this game.

[Cheetory6]

I'm just really annoyed that I put a lot of effort into meta-ing TSO and building a case and feeling really good about it, only to like feel like I'm getting misdirected by TSO to his benefit, getting frustrated at that and then have a bunch of people come in and only comment on me being frustrated rather than actually reading a case that I worked a lot on.
I just feel discouraged like why the fuck did I bother trying to figure out TSO if people were going to come in and just throw the first shit they thought of into the game in response to it?

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory all I did was ask you for reads

Do you have any besides TSO?

I voted for FA and said I liked the case on Marquis earlier.

UNVOTE:
I felt like TSO was trying to misrep what I was saying about him, but the more that I read back and think about it, the more I misunderstood where he was coming from and now I'm not even really all that sure of my read on him anymore. From what I've seen of his meta, I don't really think scumTSO would tackle someone he perceives as unreasonable in a calm way so I don't really know what to think of him right now q.q

I'll take another look at FA, but I thought some of his newer posts seemed kind of decent as well.

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory literally said "Whee, Momentum!"

I voted because the game was stalling and needed momentum.

[Cheetory6]

What is it about FA's L-1 vote that looks really bad?
Setting up goodmorning as next lynch or..?

[Cheetory6]

Nobody Special is straight-up town - I won't be going into details, sorry

Also.. what?
q.q
I don't get this at all.

[Cheetory6]

But he was scumreading him earlier..?
That doesn't make any sense q.q
If I'm just being an idiot, tell me, but I feel like that change makes no sense at all.

[Cheetory6]

Aero why are you townreading FA?

[Cheetory6]

Are you just going to ignore why I voted and keep trumpeting that reasoning? -.-

What specific posts did you like in his reaction and why?

[Cheetory6]

Hey Aero:
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee momentum.
VOTE: FA

[Cheetory6]

Or can all come to our own decision?
I'd rather not put the burden of responsibility for choosing a lynch on one person's shoulders and excusing everyone from making their own decisions makes it way easier for scum to sit on a wagon without standing out.

[Cheetory6]

Like, you think my vote on FA was bad, does that mean you think I'm scum or what?

[Cheetory6]

Sorry, school is being really awful right now.
Will try and catch up tonight.

[Cheetory6]

Actually, one of my current tinfoil-hat theories which is beginning to gnaw at me is that one of the conduits to Nobody Special's death was scum realising - and Cheetory had a moment where I refused to discuss it and that could have tipped him off.

I'm not really sure why I would be more suspicious than the other people who probably didn't notice the claim and just didn't say anything. I get why I'm being singled out here, but it's shitty that someone else probably had this realization and I'm taking the fall for it. -.-

Fully support a Marquis wagon at this juncture, will probably push it sooner or later.

Can you walk through why exactly? Or point me in the direction of a post you've made which reflects your current feelings on him?

Also, what happened to the TSO/Cheetory conflict? Why did that die out so easily? I'm a little behind (a few pages, I just skimmed from the start of the day to here), but I feel like there's almost no TSO/Cheetory rub anymore and that's kinda strange to me.

I wanted to take a step back and disengage from TSO and try taking a break from reading him, partially because how he engaged me at the end of D4 feels kind of townish. I'm also kind of wary that Marquis is the only person who's expressed any kind of interest in a TSOlynch and he isn't exactly screaming town to me right now :/

VOTE: VOTE: cheetory
Looked at fa wagon and used a process of elimination figure it's a good place to start.

How exactly did you move from pushing Marquis to saying that I'm the scum on the FA wagon from POE? Can you elaborate on your reads on myself and Marquis in more detail?
Also, is there any reason why your latest reads feel kind of weak? Like, your vote on me, your vote on Marquis and even to a certain extent your vote on GM feel like they're based on very little actual substance and I'm trying to sort whether that's just general playstyle or not.

Not sure how I feel about dragon's outing of the neighbors, but I'm not sure why it's as blatantly scummy as people are trying to imply? I think it's bad play, but like.. I'm not sure I understand how he's distracting from himself given that outing a PR is going to just draw attention back to himself? Unless I'm misunderstanding where people are coming from on that, in which case by all means, explain it to me.


VOTE: Shinobi
You really need to give some more extensive reads because I have no idea where you stand on just about everyone right now and I literally can't remember anything you've said or done recently. Your play strikes me as pretty safe and I can't think of a better place for scum to be hiding right now than in the background. Who do you think is scum and why? Why aren't you voting for anyone?

Marquis are you going to call me scum for bullshit reasons again?

If you think his reasons are bullshit, do you think he's scum? Why or why not?

[Cheetory6]

V/LA.
I need to pass classes.
Will try to get a post in a day.

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory: 2542/2544 is AtE, 3903is more complaining now about game being boring, 4099 certain TSO is scum, 4113 and 4114 AtE, 4122-nobody cares AtE, 4124-it's all unfair AtE, 4188-MORE AtE, 4191-good lord the AtE is stiffling at this point, 4232-WTF? Suddenly TSO is NOT scum and FA looks good?, 4250-mockingly bad vote on FA

Can't really defend my state of mind all that much, but I just want to make it clear that a large part of the reason that I was upset was because my case on TSO was mainly based around his weird swing on ABR and some sketchiness with his explanations as to exactly what he was thinking on D3 and it felt like at the time TSO was trying to redirect attention in a way to discredit my case on him and that nobody was listening to what I was saying as a result of a manipulation by him and because I wasn't doing a good job of conveying how I was feeling at the time. I was also really convinced that him manipulating the argument like that was coming from a scumPOV.

It makes more sense to me now that he may have just felt like he'd properly addressed what I was saying given that I couldn't figure out an exact scum-motivation for why he would suddenly be okay with an ABR lynch. I also just kind of felt like the calm manner with which he was dealing with me being angry just seemed out of character for what I'd read in the scumgames I'd skimmed. So I'm trying to reread him without biasing myself just on those interactions and I feel like he's closer to a nullread at the moment where I just don't know how I feel about him/I just don't feel very confident at all on any kind of read on him.

As for my FA vote, I don't think it's fair of you/others to frame my vote on its own. Anyone reading my ISO can tell that he was my second strongest scumread before I voted for him and I obviously just liked the argument that TSO was making at the time for him being scum. I've been wrong a lot this game. I don't really understand why that necessarily makes me scummy.

Marquis' stance on me, and stances in general, are fluctuating bullshit. His read on FA_Q2 also kept going back and forth yesterday. His justification of this is "Well, you can't expect me to have static reads when I've only just replaced in." This is true. However, his reads on me are not simply "not static." They are ever-changing. There's never any reasoning for them, ever.

Isn't it kind of different to have a fluctuating read on a person and to have fluctuating reasons for scumreading someone? And if he doesn't have any reasoning for them, how can his reasoning for scumreading you constantly be changing? I'm just not really sure what you're saying here.

I just cannot see town Marquis doing that. Maybe if he was able to detail why his read on me and FA, in particular, went "town-scum-town-scum-tum-scown-town-scum", but I doubt he remembers those. I have no idea why he felt his thought process needed to be opaque this game - opaque thought processes are a bad idea 99% of the time. And he's not usually into super-opaqueness, at least now as town, from what I've seen of him.

Has Marquis's's read on you actually changed all that much? I'm under the impression he's just been scumreading you iirc?

Also,

@Marquis

, do you disagree with TSO's assessment of your general playstyle here?

I take it you aren't happy that I'm voting for you?

I'm just finding it hard to understand whether you're scum hiding under empty votes or town who literally just doesn't elaborate on anything ever q.q

Something about Marquis/Shinobi's really quick argument with almost no substance followed by an unvote just feels.. weird.

@Shinobi

, Wwhy did your read on Marquis go from MehIdunno/SCUM/probably town/maybe actually still scum over the course of like three pages? Why do you want to lynch Kitz?

Alright. I don't agree with oz, but Cheetory I see your reasoning behind. Kinda been wondering about him myself.

Why?

[Cheetory6]

If TSO is apparently more aggressive when he's scum, then how do people interpret the calm manner in which he engaged most of my attack on him last cycle?

[Cheetory6]

:/
Can you say whether you were one of the kills on N1?
I have a hard time seeing scum fakeclaiming vig in a game which I'm pretty sure has one based on N1.

[Cheetory6]

Because that whole sequence with TSO during last day phase is really off to me, and that's really bugging me. Tell me why again you think TSO isn't scum anymore?

I also just kind of felt like the calm manner with which he was dealing with me being angry just seemed out of character for what I'd read in the scumgames I'd skimmed.

Please explain to me what changed in between these posts to make you go from "I feel pretty good about Goodmorning town" to suddenly "GM is null, because she's being apathetic"

Why is this suddenly convincing to you in terms of TSO's alignment when something similar happened with his read on ABR and I pointed it out SEVERAL times??

[Cheetory6]

I need to reread Marquis again.
I liked the case on Wake, but I remember liking stuff Marquis has done this cycle.
Won't be happening until tonight at the earliest because lifethings.

[Cheetory6]

Please explain to me what changed in between these posts to make you go from "I feel pretty good about Goodmorning town" to suddenly "GM is null, because she's being apathetic"

Why is this suddenly convincing to you in terms of TSO's alignment when something similar happened with his read on ABR and I pointed it out SEVERAL times??

[Cheetory6]

I claimed the Doctor was on me, I never claimed Bulletproof.

Wouldn't you get a notification of this based on what happened with viking?

[Cheetory6]

@Marquis

, do you really think TSO wouldn't be worried about a counterclaim if he was some kind of scum fakeclaiming right now? Like, even if he was the SK, wouldn't the vig just counterclaim him and he'd be fucked? I feel like his course of actions here just doesn't make sense as scum and if he's lying he's fucked anyway.
I don't get how you're seeing this situation any other way?

[Cheetory6]

How do you explain three kills that one night Aero?

[Cheetory6]

If NS protected TSO then wouldn't that necessarily mean that there would have to be a serial killer?
Via # of kills that happened?

Unless TSO just wasn't protected in which case I still don't understand.
Maybe Viking lied about being protected to try and keep himself alive??

P-Edit: @elusive, why does TSO pushing Marquis make you feel bad about his wagon? Are you implying that you think TSO is lying or what?
Also, question @TSO, why would you shoot Math given that they claimed bulletproof?

[Cheetory6]

If NS successfully protected TSO*

[Cheetory6]

You are obviously not reading.

What do you mean?

[Cheetory6]

@elusive, I was null on him after I took a step back from my engage with him D4.
Leaning town on him as long as there isn't a counterclaim. I don't see why scumTSO would risk claiming vig if there was any chance at all of a counterclaim and the supposed shot on Viking makes it uncertain whether there is some kind of killing role in the game.

[Cheetory6]

Just what I say.

ok..
Quote things at me. I really don't understand your point.

[Cheetory6]

Why exactly are you scumreading Silver, Kitz?

Also, VT here.

[Cheetory6]

I'm seriously wondering if Viking lied about being protected to try and make his claim seem more legitimate. Like "oh man scum tried to kill me so I can't be scum!" sort of dealio?
It would make a lot of things make sense wrt # of kills N1 and there being less kills in general [with potentially a successful protection or two and just nobody being notified].
I have a hard time imagining this being multiball at this point though, which is nice.

I've been putting off reading Marquis because I'm dumb/busy.
Will try tonight if I have time.

[Cheetory6]

I don't think goodmorning's claim fits the bill.

What makes you say that?

[Cheetory6]

Logically, I think one of the claims between goodmorning/TSO/elusive is probably fake, but I don't really feel confident enough to know which it is.
I had a thought recently that maybe TSO is like a bulletproof mafia who claimed vig because he felt like he could win an argument if a CC came? Iunno. It's just that I keep reading his posts as being scummy, but reasonably there's like.. no way that he would claim at this point as scum unless he was sure it would yield some kind of positive result.
He was under no pressure to claim, but did so anyway. Which basically brings me back to a point where I just don't really want to lynch him right now, but I still feel super paranoid about him in general q.q

Elusive telegraphed her claim ages ago. I think it could explain the lack of nightkills. I think it could also mean she's serial killer. I think there are bigger fish to fry right now though.
Goodmorning's claim doesn't do much to help me read her at all. @Those who were in her neighborhood, did you get good vibes off of how she was posting? Vice versa for goodmorning.. etc etc..

My long awaited Marquis ISO thing is happening now because holy fuck team mafia and schoolthings RIPme.

[Cheetory6]

I don't think goodmorning's claim fits the bill.

So you think all of the people she's saying she neighborized, she didn't? Is that what you're saying? :/

[Cheetory6]

...no, Cheetory.

So I just don't get to know what you're thinking then?
Maybe I won't read Marquis then.
Let's all just be uncooperative. >:c

[Cheetory6]

If TSO isn't mafia I don't want to lynch him. IDGAF if he's town or SK at this point, functionally, we have a full scumteam-minus-one at least to take care of. Unless someone wants to pitch TSO being a part of a multiball scumteam [which would be ballsy as fuck for him to make a claim for if a scummate flipped] or him being bulletproof mafia running a risky CC gambit, I'm really not interested and I honestly just kind of find both scenarios hard to believe. And while I find him generally pretty sketchy, I just don't really like the people jumping at him right now and him being claimed means that he can't just go around shooting obvtown and then saying "wups sorry guys made a bad call". If someone like Silver or Kitz dies without flipping scum and he claims the shot, we can string him the fuck up. I don't think he'd do that even if he is scum though so woopty. He's at least not on the mafia faction that we know exists via the kills and the lack of counter claim. Anyone pushing this right now needs to get a grip and start hunting for the scumteam that actually fucking matters at this point.

I'm getting tired of people trying to push dumb counterwagon options and I guess I can see Marquis being resigned scum who knows he can't win against a 1v1 with TSO.

@TSO

, tell me why Shinobi isn't scum.

[Cheetory6]

If we're rolling with the fact that scum has a doctor and/or a rolecop, then why are we voting the guy that was tracked nowhere?

Are we believing ABR's results now?
That's also assuming that one of the roles isn't a godfather or a ninja or some other kind of passive role.
Why are you still voting for goodmorning? Are you really rolling with her being scum still? Why?

[Cheetory6]

there's no reason to write off his checks

Yeah. Especially his MathBlade guilty.

[Cheetory6]

Like, I wouldn't make a big deal out of this if you weren't using it as a god damn shield every time someone gets on your case.
If you're on the fence about GM why are you still voting her? Do you have no decent scumreads right now?

P-Edit: ABR said he tracked MathBlade to Ellie the night she died? Something we know 100% is a lie given that she was vengeful and couldn't target people?

[Cheetory6]

UNVOTE:
Only here for a second. I want more time. kthnx

[Cheetory6]

Aero. If you're not trying to get TSO lynched right now, what are you trying to prove?
If you are trying to get TSO lynched, why? Like. What?
I really don't get why this is your focus right now.

i completely forgot cheetory was even part of this game :/

had a townread on him earlier but it moved to null and now completely eroded. would advocate a lynch or vig there.

I was VLA for a reason. I have so much shit going on IRL and team mafia > this. Sorry. If people want to kill me because I have priorities in life then great. Would love some more fucking free time right now.

[Cheetory6]

It seems to me like you have more chance of being lynched right now..?
Why're you worried about being nightkilled more than Shinobi at this point?

[Cheetory6]

Why would Shinobi be nightkilled....

No I mean why are you more concerned with what will happen during night rather than what is happening right now?
It just seems like your priorities are weird and I'm trying to understand.

[Cheetory6]

Cheetory, come along.

Okay. Where are we going?

[Cheetory6]

Meh.
I wanted to see more of Aero's thoughts, but the fact that he's still pushing "Shinobi/TSO/Cheetory" interactions when he's acknowledged that TSO probably isn't groupscum as a reason for finding Shinobi scummy is weird. Also just the strange focus on TSO and lack of actual trying to find someone worth lynching this cycle is weird.

Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
VOTE: Aeronaut

[Cheetory6]

Come midnight tomorrow I will be free from Project Hell.
q.q
I'll get my head into this game after that.

[Cheetory6]

Every time I look at this game, I try to go into someone's ISO to get back into it, and see that's it's usually t 300+ posts and just find it impossible to even try q.q
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to lurk, I'm just really struggling with staying present in this game.

As of right now, I'm thinking there's at least two scum in Shinobi, Ozgin and goodmorning.
Dragon and Marquis could be scum.
Kitz, TSO and GC/Silver are probably not scum.

Someone pitch me a case because I'm sure as hell not making one right now q.q

[Cheetory6]

Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

I'm looking back now and not really seeing anything about the hammer that screams town. Like, there's all that stuff after the hammer actually drops, but I could pretttttty easily see that being him playing dumb.
Does anyone have any experience with scumOzgin?

@dragon

, is there something specific that seems scummy about Ozgin?

I'm also kind of eyeing Shinobi again because that last post by him kinda felt like it could be scum trying to get towncred for predicting a mislynch.

[Cheetory6]

It's like nothing that ever happens in thread is ever a reason to take anyone off the table for a day.

What exactly happened that should take someone off the table?

[Cheetory6]

So, what? The people on the Aero wagon are all town now?
Or just Ozgin because he put a hammer down after Silver had already given intent?
:/

[Cheetory6]

Bussing is a thing?

Though, I kind of forgot that you specifically were the counterwagon >.>
I don't see why that makes Ozgin town though.

[Cheetory6]

Yes, bussing is A Thing, but I don't know why the default assumption would be that "bussing occurred" rather than "scum tried to have their buddy not get killed."

I'm more just trying to understand why Shinobi thinks it's worth discounting Ozgin as scum just because he hammered especially since intent had already been given before the hammer had actually happened.

[Cheetory6]

Sorry, wasn't trying to be overly persistent, was just responding to GC.

[Cheetory6]

Can't really blame Marquis for scumreading me if he is town. I'm pretty done with this game atm.
Like I literally have no energy to try and sort through anything from before now and the only reason I haven't replaced is because I don't want to do that to ika when finding a replacement would be such a pain in the ass.

[Cheetory6]

That being said, I don't appreciate being referred to as an 'it' tyvm. -.-

[Cheetory6]

TSO - Leanscum. I don't know that I buy he was blocked. What if he's not even the vig, what if he's a mafia goon or something, his team voted to shoot someone

Uh.
VOTE: Ozgin
Yeah Ozgin has literally not budged an inch on TSO despite mountains of evidence to suggest that he isn't worth lynching right now and his read on me is also pretty garbage.

Shinobi is probably town because of counterwagon things.
Kitz is town.
GC should do catch-up things soon but he's also probably town.
I'll wager that TSO is almost definitely town if Ozgin flips scum.

That leaves goodmorning, marquis, ozgin and dragonspawn.
Don't really have a strong feeling on GM or dragon, but there's probably a scum in there.
Ozgin and marquis are my current best guesses for scum.

[Cheetory6]

Why exactly is Marquis town? You could always try to articulate it and explain it to me or point me in the direction of something to help me understand where you're at?
-.-

[Cheetory6]

So do you wanna go ahead and push that "Hurr durr he hammered when SW had the intent, hurr" card some more? Or are you actually going to fucking read the thread?

I admit I missed this.
Doesn't mean your hammer still only came after Silver said she'd also be willing to hammer.
I also don't really think a hammer on scum should clear you as being scum. Do you?

But seriously Cheetory, tell me why you're pushing a scumread on me based on a lie?

I suspect you a lot more for a shitty push on TSO than for whatever else you're trying to insinuate I'm pushing you for? Unless you're calling me saying your push on TSO is bad a lie. I'd love to hear how that works if so.
I've walked through like ten times why TSO as mafia is basically impossible at this point. You calling him a potential mafia just seems way too out there to be coming from town. Please tell me how mafiaTSO shot his scumbuddy pisskop on N1.
Or do you think someone else did that and is just biding their time to counter claim him?

[Cheetory6]

gm, what do you think of Ozgin?

post later, cheet still probscum

How are people townreading you? -.-

[Cheetory6]

So me calling you out on a read that looks like it's forced/fake is scummy because it's overconfident/oversimplifying the situation in your eyes, but you blanketing a scumread on me because I was upset on D4 isn't a gross oversimplification of that entire situation?

I haven't said that I'm particularly confident that you're scum. I just think you're the best bet via PoE and bad feels about the way you're approaching this read on me and your read on TSO. Like seriously, I just don't understand at all how you could think that TSO is mafia of all things or more importantly think that's the most likely explanation for the current gamestate.

[Cheetory6]

What's your read on Marquis?

[Cheetory6]

Why would he do that though? :/