NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[PeregrineV]

And just so it will be on record

Vote: Damon_Gant

[PeregrineV]

Which is to say that I still lean town on Damon_Gant.

I was this way since 229.

But, taking Snork results as-is, scum has to be in Snow, ThAd, Gant, Egg, Penguin (3066).

And the stuff I mentioned stood out to me in the triple ISO.

[PeregrineV]

I'll look as much as I can at the last 3.

[PeregrineV]

I'll look as much as I can at the last 3.

Since we disagree so fundamentally on the last one I did, I'm kinda meh about this. :/

Yeah, but I'm merely pointing them out. I can and have been fooled before by reading stuff that isn't there.

Do you want me to continue?

[PeregrineV]

Null/very weak town:

TWIE,

DG,
Dead null: Egg
Null/very weak scum:

Nero

, DV
Probably scum:

RM, aptil

Scum:

ThAd

These need a whole heck of a lot more explanation.

ThAd needs more context. Rach is always a low-contributor in games; you have to read the mindset, not the content. Aptil is a newb, who I have a decent ability to read. Nothing about BPC looks like scum to me. Nero and DV also don't look like scum, 'specially not Nero. (I can read Nero fairly well, and this is his townplay.) The DG/pisskop reads also need explanation.

Not much ThAd stuff, but first that stands out is Mastin pointing out

Snork's

"bad read" of ThAD. If ThAd were town in the scumpile, I see no point in Mastin trying to "explain in context". Possibly, to maintain the reasons for his ThAd=town read, but why even mention this post at all? Also, no attack on the Damon_Gant townread given.

[PeregrineV]

Remind me why SiX is in the shoot pool?

SiX should be sacrificing himself to protect Snork, who can get another read.

[PeregrineV]

Hang on a second.

Also, no attack on the Damon_Gant townread given.

The DG/pisskop reads also need explanation.

Or am I misinterpreting what you were saying PV?

As usual at the conclusion of the day I find myself saying that I'm happy where my vote is, but I will move it to *insert other wagon here* (in this case ThAd) if necessary. I will certainly be about close to the deadline.

Mastin wants an explanation of why snork lists you & TWIE as town, but does not provide one on his own. He does, however try to explain why the scumreads are wrong. 3 of those flipped town. One was cleared as No-gun. The other is ThAd.

If those were all actual town being misread as scum, there would be no reason to Mastin to disagree with it. He could more easily say, "Yes, I agree", furthering Snork's scumreads on town players.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, I'd really like for you to explain how CONTEXTUALLY you could possibly see the interactions between this slot and known scum as scum-scum.

Snork cleared TWIE as no-gun. So I could do the above, but it'd be kind of a waste of time.

If a no-gun player is some GodFather or mafia doc role, then my choice for it would be DV.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, I'd really like for you to explain how CONTEXTUALLY you could possibly see the interactions between this slot and known scum as scum-scum.

Snork cleared TWIE as no-gun. So I could do the above, but it'd be kind of a waste of time.

If a no-gun player is some GodFather or mafia doc role, then my choice for it would be DV.

Your push on him prior to that revelation though. Just wow.

I know we approach the game really differently based on past experience. But still.

Well, when you consider that so far this game,

I had

talah

as scum
I had

luca

as scum
I had

AP

as town
I had

Yates

as town

I had Mastin as scum

I had

ThAd

as town
I had

Penguin (as Rogers)

as town
I had

Damon

as town
I had

Egg (BiPolar)

as town

And the last four as part of the PoE in which there are 2 scum,

I'm doing pretty shitty.

[PeregrineV]

I don't want to check SiX tonight. I'd rather check one of the unknowns.

Yeah. Check someone else. Pretend you are a cop and treat SiX like a Miller claim. Aptil admitted he would show as having a gun and there's no reason not to believe that. I'm not sure what a second check would prove/disprove.

I'll protect you so you can at least get another read out.

SO looking through for ThAd stuff, I come across this.

Either Yates was crumbing doc fakeclaim or there is a mafia doc or this all means nothing.

[PeregrineV]

1817- Yates has ThAd in the To be sorted.

2196- Yates still has ThAd in could be scummy pile. Looks like keeping the bussing option open.


Town read, but totally qualified with the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhh thing.

ThAdmiral - Meh?

Not meh, town. ThAd's posting is kinda eeeeeeeeeeeehh stance-wise, but it looks really, really legitimate, and while I don't agree with his reads, I understand the reasons for them basically perfectly and can track his mindset.

Nero's lynch list contains AP-scum and Yates-scum, and Mastin indicates that off them all, ThAd is the one he wants to save?
Egg is removed in his "reasons".

Talk to me about my reads.

Alright.

Mister Rogers/PA
Snork
AngryPidgeon
BipolarChemist/Egg
Yates
PeregrineV

PA's null to me overall right now.
Snork's posting looks town, but feels like it has to be an alt. It feels like this level of drive and familiarity could only come from an insider. So if Snork really weren't an alt, I'd actually feel like scum if that makes sense.
AP's a concern, since he's not feeling the townvibes.
I liked BipolarChemist's posting and Egg's has continued the trend.
Yates is null, as is PV. Don't really remember anything from either of them.

With a lynch list of {Snork/PA/Yates/AP/PV/Thad}, basically the only one I wouldn't want lynched is ThAd, whose posting does look town to me.

More reasons why:

If anyone has a problem with this lynch, explain why, because I haven't seen a single good reason to believe that ThAd is town.

Everything about him is ridiculously town, even if not sheeping-town. Look at his posts from his perspective. They're not calculated. They're not artificial. They're not precise. These are all traits of a scum ThAd. They're impulsive. Rash. Emotional. Argumentive rather than manipulative. He's not trying to push an agenda; he's frustrated about the game. His posting looks genuine, like he's trying to figure out the game.

Like, I'm just about as disjointed from the game as can be, yet I can tell all of this basically instantly.

2325
2367
2368
AP decries Thad as town, Mastin wholeheartedlty agrees. This comes at VC 2.10, when a ThAd-lynch is gaining traction.:

It's day 2. Deadline for the day is 13th April, 15:45. That's (expired on 2014-04-13 15:45:32).

Vote Count 2.10

ThAdmiral [4 votes] (SnowStorm, RachMarie, Egg, Nero Cain)
TheWayItEnds [3 votes] (DeasVail, mastin2, PeregrineV)
SnowStorm [3 votes] (penguin_alien, Angry Pidgeon, Damon_Gant)
Nero Cain [2 votes] (ThAdmiral, SiX)
AngryPidgeon [1 vote] (TheWayItEnds)
mastin2 [1 vote] (Yates)
projectmatt [1 vote] (4nxi3ty)

2 playes are not voting

: {projectmatt, Snork}

2311- ThaD jumps to his own defense against Nero & Snow. No mention of the whiteknighting by Mastin/AP.

AP stuff
359-

Prior to this post, AP had Thad as a low-grade scumread ("yeah, let's lynch ThaD" type thing).

If Talah flips town can we lynch Snork?

I'll admit I've been secretly paranoid about Snork over a few things.

Snork trying to CW Thadmiral and calling a stupid null-post a scumclaim in bold felt over the top dramatic. The point about you not wanting to be ISOd feels like a convenient case and he is sort of keeping you at arm's length instead of actually pushing on you?

I must not waver, Snork is still p town. Also, talah wont be flipping town.

1841- AP tone changes and ThAd moves to town
1973- AP defending ThAd from Snow ("The defense you made holds equally for Thad who you consider scummy: Thad disliked both wagons, so clearly he is town for voting aptil. What is his scum motivation for voting aptil??")
Same post also tries to move Snow from ThaD focus to 4xniety

ThAdmiral - Meh?

DeasVail - I'd lynch it.

2131- not sure what to think.

2138-ThAd back to scum?

More AP "reads"

K. Are we seriously back to 5 days left until deadline?

Nero, RM, Yates, Anxiety, PV, Snork, [aptil-slot], thadmiral are all pretty town.

Townblock, start suggesting good lynches and why.

I want TWIE, Matt, or Snow right now the most. Could maybe do mastin (not really a scumread, but decent compromise at this point), Egg (replaced Bipolar, doesnt feel like town-egg really).

I think I'd rather not lynch DV today actually. Someone throw something out.

2325- ThaD is town because rage.

2338- Long post of AP defending ThAd from Snow.
Around here I do not see ThaD defending himself from Snow- he's busy fighting off Nero.
Not only does ThAd not argue with Snow, he does say anything to AP who is defending him while having him as a meh-town-scum read most of the game.

2367- More ThAd defense

- And this is actually last mention, talk etc. of ThAD until AP dies

All in all, ThAd not recognizing buddying when he sees it it very off-putting. Conisdering he's used it on me effectively before, he knows how it works. Plus he's indicated in the thread that he is aware of how others read him, so how did he miss AP's defense of him and not call Mastin's WK him for what it was?

Want to check a few more things- then probably a ThAd vote.

[PeregrineV]

Wanted to check Zdenek and Nero posts.

Zdenek had only minor Thad Stuff. Was probably killed because Mastin/Yates.

Nero (The Noisemaker) is usually killed because he's tunneling correctly. And ThaD is prominent in his iso.

Vote: ThAd

[PeregrineV]

I'll hammer if necessary later on. But since I will be available like (all the day today?) and there's still 6h ½ hour, I won't hammer so discussion will still be open in case someone has something to say.

Unless soemthign breaks, keep it to me or ThAd.

You protect Snork.

But, keep in mind.

You're dumb. Really.

You do realize that as an alive claimed investigative role, that if you are not NKed, you need to be lynched prior to lylo to verify your results. Preferably a day or 2.

lol you're dumb too.

Worst case, we have 2 mislynches left. Today, and tomorrow. You really think that a) scum are going to keep me alive just on the off-chance they can convince town to lynch me and b) leave me around to continue investigating? I think not.

But go on, keep trying to sow seeds of doubt about my claim, about the existence of an SK, about the number of scum left. It's amusing, but you're still dead today. And on the slim possibility you are town, I'm probably dead tonight. So you'll get your flip one way or the other.

I've really about had it with this game. People keep prod-dodging and messing about with crap. I'm getting bored.

Actually, it's standard mafia theory. If you are scum fakeclaiming, then you would of course not die, and you could "clear" town but also "clear" scum.


Your results are not validated until you are. You are usually not validated until dead.

No we aren't anywhere near questioning whether or not Snork is lying scum.

Just because you aren't, doesn't mean you shouldn't.

The fact that Snork lived last night AND got a result means if scum have a rolebleocker, they did not use it on him (a better target)?. If they do not have a rolebleocker, then why is he alive? As a player and as a role he is way more dangerous to scum than RachMarie (no offense Rach! )

Allowing him to live and get results seems suboptimal for scum to play. Especially given that Mastin/AP/Yates were all scum.

One day I might be able to understand (that would be last night). Anything else past that is unrealistic on the part of scum to allow him to live. Ditto on the part of town.

[PeregrineV]

I honestly expected one more, for a team of 15-5. But, I always make the assumption of power roles also, unless the game specifies otherwise.

[PeregrineV]

Considering the lack of town power overall, I guess it's pretty balanced. I think you can keep the Ascetic, but change a goon to a JK. Primarily to prevent the whole "follow the cop" scenario, which is about what happened.

However, I think that designing games that have built-in paranoia as part of the town's obstacles is perfectly acceptable design structure. I know that others do not agree, and the benefits of it have decreased lately, but I think it is still valid nonetheless.

Re: Yates modkill
As a town player, I;'m glad it happened, etc. He would have been a pain to catch. Although we were well on our way to not lynching town, it definitely helped us.
As for the rationale behind it, I think the reasoning was extreme. None of us town knew the name of the scum QT, so there is no reason to assume it was for this game. If one of the players brought it up and stated it was a scumslip and pushed it and Yates was lynched for it, then so be it.

As for "other games". Assume I was scum with Yates in another game but not this one. And I found his pic. I would still know it's not our game QT and so woulnd't care.

If I was town in another game with Yates, I wouldn't know the name of the scum QT, so it would only be a scumlsip to the extent I wanted to push it.

In summary, he really could have been researching a scum QT from years ago in an effort to scumhunt another player in a game I could or could not be in. Or he may have found it funny and was reading it to relive scum memories. Who knows? If part of his response also led to the decision, then that I also get. But, absent any other information than a picture of a QT tab, I don't think a modkill would be warranted.

[PeregrineV]

Good job town and looking town and extra thanks to Ffery for replacing in at the last hour, even if you didn't know it was.

@Plessiez

- Good job modding! The vote counts were timely and clear, the deadlines were obvious, and the prods and replacements kept the game from stagnating. Thank you for letting me play!

The scum QT was a pretty entertaining read. I especially like the confidence early in the QT. But, I will say it was probably well-founded. However, the town players did a goob job looking town, and the vigs managed to take out the ones that were marginal.

I especially liked AP's /m36-

Lol, sidelining on dumb things like the vig gambit is SUCH a scumtell. And further, you can expect scum to split down the middle. Which we did. Admiral and mastin in the "it looks legit camp" and Yates and I in the "ITs fake" camp.

Also,

Yes. Damn pere for hammering without a claim.

@Mastin- your posts look like scum-Mastin.

Mastin still scum.

Vote: Mastin

At the time, I don't think there was anything Mastin could have said to get out of it. Maybe a PR claim, but I probably would have hammered anyway and took whatever heat the next day.