New York 152 Niiightless Game Over!

[TeChNoWC]

Seriously?
... I do not think red was scum. Meh.

And BB isn't scum either.

Ok, so after some intense reading (and with more to do, I jotted down some quick thoughts along the way (sorry for those that have to skim through them). In no particular order, I sort of jumped around a bit:

- crypto and FF have been acting like neighbours the whole game. Makes me think the Mogri bandwagon is a mafia lynch plot.
- Psyche seems town, just a bit 'psyche'.
- "Lynch red tomorrow when I flip town" short posting and carefree attitude to cover up nervous scummyness.If red FF is scum as I assume, it might be another clever cover. Seems a bit scummy, but im not sure lynchworthy... Between the whole red/BB dichotomy, I'm going with red as scum.
- UberNinja seems pretty town to me
- Player that seems most scum to me, by way of gut feeling, was Matias.As the game went on though, he seemed more and more town.
- Inte rubs off as 'creepy', but not 'scummy'.
- Post 184 lol. He seems serious. I can't tell if this gives away he is town, or gives away he is scum, or neither. But lol. However, redFF's action in 193 is quite scummy.
- Mogri Post 264, scummy
- Post 296 mb is right, makes me feel more suspicious of inte
- Post 298 I disagree with Hiraki. This doesn't necessarily suggest Vifam is town, but I don't have any strong scum readings on Vifam or Hiraki anyway.

After this I sort of stopped and decided I am on the wrong bandwagon. I am going to read up more on Mogri but to me there is one player that rings a lot more scum alarm bells.

Unvote
Vote, RedFF

[TeChNoWC]

Sorry for the messy post guys, happy to clarify on anything.

[TeChNoWC]

Mainly his neighboriness with crypto and bandwagoning, quick vote changes, and lack of scum hunting. Also his reaction to mb in post 193 made me cringe.

I'm going to check through later tonight and do a more thorough study, he is still five votes away from getting lynched so my vote isn't a game changer at this stage - I really didn't feel Mogri deserved a bandwagon and if anyone should have a bandwagon at this stage it should be red. Planning on checking up on some more of mogri's posts too because he did seem somewhat scummy, but nothing that stood out yet where I could go 'aha! So that's why he's getting flak!'. I had those sort of moments numerous times when reading through for red, even on page one, and I can certainly understand why he has a bandwagon for scum.

[TeChNoWC]

sorry, I am going to correct myself there and say 'lack of logical scumhunting'. He did have a few witty remarks for some, but mostly voted for people for stupid reasons and ignored the big ones.

[TeChNoWC]

I do not understand this at all. This sounds like you are trying to scare us out of lynching you.

unvote
(I do not remember if I did this already)

I actually think this is scummy and will vote for him as soon as I get my other rereads done.

I think there was something I noted about kcdspot as well, but I will have to go back and check.

oh

Unvote, Vote: Blonde Doctor

1. Why the hell is desperation posting, ala BB, indicative of scum and not of EITHER alignment?

2. How the hell do you know that you're going to vote for him after your rereads are done? Why even bother doing the rereads?

Forget redFF, this is yuck.

if redFF really played Red Dead Redemption as a scum role, I no longer have a case on him.

I'm re-reading BBmolla tonight.

I'm not getting this. Your first of these posts seemed semi-rational, but it was wierd you actually 'voted' for Blonde as though his supposed misread automatically made him scum. And then in the very next post you seem suspicious of the very person Blonde was attacking? I don't understand.

[TeChNoWC]

tech if there are neighbors I really doubt they can talk during the day. I think it's pre-game and night only.

No I wasn't assuming they could talk during the game, but they seemed really 'pally' during the first few pages of the game, making me think they both knew they were scum from pregame and they were targeting the same people to push up votes. Having reread through crypto's later posts I am not sure if I was correct with my neighbourhood suspicion; though I still consider that crypto has given up defending red since he's gone too far towards the 'scumside'. Would like to know a few things from crypto; firstly, how well do you know red from other games? Also, why are you keen on a red lynch? And if so, what are your reasons for voting mogri?? The more I read up on mogri the more 'scum vibes' I am getting but nothing stand outish, and red still seems more scummy; the whole neighbourhood theory being potentially false though has me somewhat reconsidering; maybe, by some off chance, red is just really bad at playing town.

[TeChNoWC]

I just went over all of red's and mogri's posts. Mogri says relatively nothing which seems scummy. He contributes very little. His 'detrimental to town' (he says detrimental twice) sounds like something a scum might say. Other than that, I see little on him.

red says a bit more, but always little tiny posts with nothing but dry humour or taunts, no real scumhunting. While I hate mogri's wording, he was right in saying that red's comment on inte was useless. How is someone being mafia in another game mean that they are likely to be mafia in this game? Unless you can show they are behaving tactically the same, which he made no comment to, how is it at all relevant? I don't find any of red's comments relevant other than when he declared V/LA.

Both seem lynch worthy, red more so.

[TeChNoWC]

BB would be my third option. His playstyle is very similar.

Going to look up on Nobody Special next.

The three stooges (and perhaps, a fourth) don't appear to be engaging all that much more in the thread, so I doubt we will get much more out of them.

crypto, I appreciate your 'lol', but more input would be helpful; if that's alright with you.

[TeChNoWC]

Dude, why didn't you have a reaction to my post? You dropped the ball.

Let's just say your flattery moved me. From that moment on, I knew you weren't scummy

[TeChNoWC]

This is mint.

I'd rather lynch BB cus anyone who quits after having a wagon on them early is probably scum who feels they were cheated(like they got unlucky day 1 and didn't get a fair shot lol).

This is really, really bad. You see, mb53? THIS is opportunistic wagon hopping where timing is an actual argument.

Oh yup that's totally what I did.

This entire redFF wagon is scummy.

Really?

Really?

You think the

entire

redFF wagon is scummy?

When he flips scum, I'm parking my vote on you.

Anyways we need a lynch soon cus the deadline is in 3 days, so my 2nd pick would be Mogri because he is getting too defensive about the redwagon being called scummy(which he was on), or he is busing his buddy and knows the red is scum("when he flips scum, I'm parking my vote on you.") that would give him town cred and also get a free lynch when he referred back to his post the next day. So yeah 2nd pick Mogri.

[TeChNoWC]

Read the first two pages. I noticed it changed somewhat from therein, though. As I was writing my first post I read the first three pages and then skimmed the rest. You were pretty defensive of him to start of with, and he did some pretty scummy shit.

[TeChNoWC]

Are you serious? Here's three examples:

UNVOTE: Vifam
VOTE: BBmolla

Do you really find redFF suspicious for that, BBmolla?

You're jumping to attack him for wanting a quick lynch. A better move would be to ask him why he wants to lynch Vifam. You gotta cover your bases, dude.

I feel like redff wants to die.

Is this just an offhand remark or are you implying jester?

What changed about redFF?

But we can move on now. I've noted that my association with this + the current bandwagon was premature.

[TeChNoWC]

Ok. I believe you... I think.

So why team Mogri? I know both seem good lynches, but why Mogri over red?

It would take me little to change back at this stage. I think one or the other is definitely scum, if not both.

[TeChNoWC]

Well if I am not mistaken I heard BK scream deadline is soon, so we probably need to figure out what we are doing soon. How long until deadline exactly?

[TeChNoWC]

Seems like red is the happening thing then. I'm eager to see their responses though, and if they are any more than twelve word misfires.

[TeChNoWC]

TeCh I think the only person on my radar you really didn't talk about was mb. I can't decide if he's incompetent, or scum (no offense to mb but).

Town by my reads. Incompetent if anything, but even then he's not terrible. I find his confusion with the whole 'daykills' episode as legit, the only thing that bugs me was when he said he thought BB was definitely town. I'm not sure what BB's posts were like up until that post, but that's either somewhat scummy or plain stupid. He's since recanted, so I'm not too worried.

If everyone could tell me their top three picks for scum, then we can work out an effective lynch from there. I'm pretty solid on this one.

redFF
Mogri
BBMolla

Still yet to check up on NS, sorry, so according to my reads on him/her, my list might change.

[TeChNoWC]

guys, we have a deadline soon.

Hurry up with the scumreads, please.

[TeChNoWC]

TeCh I think the only person on my radar you really didn't talk about was mb. I can't decide if he's incompetent, or scum (no offense to mb but).

How was my early setup spec detrimental to town in any way? I had relevant information and I shared it.

I've explained this already, but Ythan's past setups are not especially relevant to this game. None of the VTs has information on the setup and your speculation is effectively a VT softclaim. Scumteam has better knowledge about the setup, and if they happen to know that this is

not

mountainous, then you've eliminated yourself as a potential PR.

That's assuming you're town. Your motivation as scum is obvious PR-fishing.

PROVE ME WRONG, HATERS

Well, I must say, that read was full of shit and there is nothing I really want to respond to. But after my time off, I have flipped on red. After an ISO, I see the only thing he has done is talk about it being mountainous and join whichever bandwagon he pleases with very 'meh' reasons.

And since morgi doesn't have enough support for a lynch...

unvote, vote: redff

TeCh I think the only person on my radar you really didn't talk about was mb. I can't decide if he's incompetent, or scum (no offense to mb but).

None taken. I know I'm not a mafia-playing master. Not even close.

Myself either.

Posts like the one you quoted above of Mogri's are making me even more suspicious of him. I am starting to feel more definite about him being scum than red, in some ways.

I would still like to see your scumreads though. Top three. If the mogri bandwagon can get going, I personally wouldn't hesitate in lynching him. Most of the people that think red is scum seem to have Mogri in their scumreads as well, and some people still attest to red being scum. I would like the scumreads to see if there is a clear nine in support of someone scummy. I'm keeping a tally, don't worry. This ball needs to get rolling and fast.

[TeChNoWC]

Another thing that has occured to me is that Mogri and BB were pushing the red wagon pretty hard. Is it that they are both scum trying to push flak of themselves onto a town lynch? I realise scum will often draw attention to other scum to save themselves, but they are pushing SO hard it seems too convenient for them.

I'm starting to think a Mogri lynch might be more likely to kill a scum.

Just my thoughts, still happy with a red lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

A BBMolla replacement might shed more light on his slot, but may not happen in time.

[TeChNoWC]

Then present your three scumreads, if you actually want to be helpful.

[TeChNoWC]

Nobody Specials last post was 4 pages ago

A lot of people haven't posted in the last four pages. I'm pretty sure he posted in the last 48 hours.

Scumreads please, inte and red.

[TeChNoWC]

Crypto (not helpful to elaborate until after this lynch first though. I'll get to it day 2)

why is it not helpful.

I assumed he meant because crypto isn't lynchable in the time frame. But I agree, if he feels the information is pertinent enough to consider crypto scum, he should have stated it.

I'm dumbfounded as to why red and inte contribute 30 seconds worth of their time to the thread and then leave. After that, inte is coming off as scummy.

Do you think we should be lynching red or mogri, uber?? How confident are you in a red lynch?

[TeChNoWC]

I agree with your town reads, though psyche worries me a little with his indecisiveness.

Eager to here more scum reads.

[TeChNoWC]

Hurry please guys as deadline is close.

[TeChNoWC]

Haha. Seems a scummy wants his pursuers to back off.

BK and Crypto, you willing to switch to red to cover the L2 if it gets too close to deadline?

Most of the others that haven't voted for him hardly seem to be on here, or aren't reliable.

[TeChNoWC]

why are people freaking out about deadline did any of you read the rules to this game

or even the title of the game

True. I looked for rules but didn't see the scum button, assumed there were only basic rules and we would find out what happened at the end of a day when it happened.

Seems we don't need to focus on numbers for a lynch.

That being said, we still need to be sorting out the mogri/red debate, because a hunch tells me that if there are no NK's (I'm assuming there aren't?) then there is a lot of scum in this game (again, indicative of the large number of scumreads) and the town majority is not that large. Getting a wrong vote could have disastrous effects on town's majority. Some people were saying that a D1 lynch is not that important, and that we can't make an accurate decision, but I think in this game particularly, lynching a mafia D1 is imperative.

I'm currently undecided about the red/mogri debate, both seem scum; I really wish the two were giving more input in defending themselves so we can get a more accurate read. Red, saying there is no case against you is bullshit, read back to my initial posts, there's a few points there and others have contributed as well. At this point I think you should be giving a better case. I'm not so hung up on the policy lynch issue, but it's just one of a sample of bad votes you've performed.

[TeChNoWC]

*not scum button lol, spoiler button. Scummyness seems to pervade every aspect of this game.

[TeChNoWC]

caught up with reading

dudes that look like town: technowc, nora, uberninja, matias

people that need to die: anyone who isn't scumhunting which is a lot of people. both our leading wagons are okay, they seem to have difficulty doing anything other than making weak pushes on easy targets (which doesnt mean im saying their targets are town just that they are pursuing their votes w/ genuine conviction). blonde also looks very scummy for reasons that aren't worth elaborating on right now

UNVOTE:

one question here before i decide my vote

RedFF: you say you start a policy lynch vote in nearly every game. i looked through your games and found one other game where you did this. tell me what games you've done this in or i'm lynching you

i mean policy lynching vifam is cool and great and awesome and i love you for attempting it but what have you done for me lately

As we mentioned earlier, any information you can provide is helpful, I don't see the benefit in leaving information out unless you think it's unhelpful. What are your reasons for blonde?

[TeChNoWC]

Petapan, make yourself useful and put the fucker at L-1.

He doesn't need to be at L-1, that was pan's point about the rules. It states that by deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. There will NEVER be a no lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

I still prefer an NS lynch and I don't know why he doesn't have more takers. :/

because the deadline is fucking close and there's not a solid case, that's why

why do you think i switched from him, numbnuts

analysis of this:

nora: scum logic
uber: town logic

[TeChNoWC]

God, Jesus fucking Christ, I just wanted to quick-hammer redFF.

Mogri is coming across scummier. We could as easily quicklynch him; maybe.

[TeChNoWC]

Haha, true... I won't rob of you of the pleasure

[TeChNoWC]

If my calculations are correct, Mogri only needs two more votes to be tommorrow's candidate for the lynch

[TeChNoWC]

Pan can quick hammer if he wants, I guess. Day 2 I am guessing will have few developments considering most of the scumreads never talk anyway. Could end up with two or three quicklynches in succession.

[TeChNoWC]

Oh yeah, he needs two extra votes, not just pans.

[TeChNoWC]

If me and uber switch to mogri, mogri still needs 2. I'm eager for a lynch too, but whats one day. Let's just pick the best one, lynch the other fucker tommorrow.

[TeChNoWC]

Then lynch em both, weather pervading. We can do red today.

[TeChNoWC]

pan vote. Crypto wants to drop the hammer, haha. He called first dibs. Get one of the other tag alongs to change to red.

[TeChNoWC]

pan, you should leave it open for someone to drop so we can move on. Request that the mod puts up another vote count after pan votes.

[TeChNoWC]

Can I bold text that isn't a vote?

[TeChNoWC]

He didn't look scummy to me either but his lack of participation makes me itch.

I'm out.

are you sure thats not just you having red eye

Oh lol....

[TeChNoWC]

MOD, REQUEST VOTE COUNT

[TeChNoWC]

I still prefer an NS lynch and I don't know why he doesn't have more takers. :/

because the deadline is fucking close and there's not a solid case, that's why

why do you think i switched from him, numbnuts

there's no need to be a twat now is there.

I still prefer an NS lynch and I don't know why he doesn't have more takers. :/

because the deadline is fucking close and there's not a solid case, that's why

why do you think i switched from him, numbnuts

analysis of this:

nora: scum logic
uber: town logic

explain why it's scummy logic to wonder why noone wanted to push for an NS vote? There were people voting him earlier in the day. I'd like to know why they preferred to jump to the bigger ships instead of trying to bring others to their own. NS is either a shitty shitty player (sorry dude) or scum, and either way he's a clear winner for "doesn't need to be in this game." He's just been making snide remarks while he was here, and on the occasion that he asked a question he didn't follow through, and when someone called him on something he never responded. Sooo yeah I sure feel scummy as fuck wanting to vote him.

Fair enough, NS is definitely going to be considered for a D2 lynch. I just wasn't sure why you were addressing the NS issue (which is fine) and not addressing the current red/mogri debate, or even why you wouldn't support either of those choices but want an NS lynch (kind of scummy). Even if you are 99% sure NS is scummy, there are surely more than one scum in this game, and we can't lynch them all day 1. Even still, you are not following current events. I really don't mind you ranting on about NS, in fact I encourage it, but you should be making a statement on the most pertinent issue at hand and that is today's lynch, albeit, mogri vs red (even if you're comment is neither, it's still a comment).

We tried to make it known that we need a hammer, and crypto even mentioned you in the hopes you would deliver it. Red's lynch awaits. Please make you're decision.

[TeChNoWC]

Please make

you're

decision.

YOUR

fucks sake man

Correction noted.

[TeChNoWC]

Nora, please drop the hammer. If you don't want to, state why, but at this stage it's only stalling. Red will die anyway, he has eight votes and it's just timing now.

[TeChNoWC]

deadline is like today (thurs) at 7

ill hammer if nobody has done it so far

Hammer away, one more vote to go.

[TeChNoWC]

did i mention that i FUCKING LOVE how NOBODY is giving me the Mogri case?

cause, yeah

Just a vibe. He speaks technically and his posts seem to have no uniform purpose, like he is picking random things to say to hide his scumness. His general reaction to scumhunting in that he interjects at odd times with odd comments that achieve nothing. He never bothered to give me scumreads (from memory, correct me if I am wrong), he just tries to throw random suspiscions on others but doesn't seem contemplative of his suspiscions, emotionally engaged with them or even assured of what he is trying to say. He is trying to fly under the radar with a very odd style that just screams scum.

I won't doubt that other players are doing similar things, but that doesn't make Mogri any less scummy, just that we potentially have a large neighbourhood of scum.

Been looking back through NS, I can't read him properly. He offers little. I would say neutral, leaning towards scum. Inte is my next analysis project

[TeChNoWC]

BB's replacement has restored hope that his slot might be town, but pan seems a very clever player so I am assuming nothing at this stage. I will be watching him carefully, but so far so good.

[TeChNoWC]

How many hours til deadline, mod?

Sorry, I'm an aussie

[TeChNoWC]

Well done team.

No point in wasting time; I recommend we give it some thought but based on our current successes I feel our scumhunting skills are pretty fucking awesome atm.

Vote: Mogri

Comment if you disagree, give cases, scumreads, everything. Let's go.

[TeChNoWC]

Guessing from the whole 'blue' thing there must be like a blue and red mafia or something, like 2 or 3 on each, maybe even a third party... So drawing connections between the scummy reads I would think wouldn't be necessary for a lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

Oh, I hate being wrong. Oh, well. At least I was kn the wagon. I'll be rereadingthe thread tonight if I have time.

Feeling the need to defend yourself?

[TeChNoWC]

ns/bb/inte
mogri

pet has not won me over yet. so the bb slot is still in that list.

Fuck I just realized I had more to say but I've copied over that.. so let me reconstruct.

UN- are you unable to iso Mogri yourself somehow, or did you do so and not find anything suspicious?

I had one other point, but I can't remember it. If I do I'll share.



Honestly till the end I was on the fence about red. And I'm not sure why, he was playing just as poorly as the rest of the guys on my list are.. but between the two last night (I went to bed right after my last post) Mogri seemed far worse to me. And I hoped red was giving up because he felt like a lost cause and not because he was scum.

If there are two teams... I can see it, potentially. That would honestly add crypto to my list of possible scum.

Mine too... POTENTIALLY. There are far better reads atm. At least crypto has town reads to his name.

It looks as though NS will be getting replaced, so it would probably be better to wait until the slot is filled to potentially garner more information. Probably not an appropriate lynch for D2.

In the meantime, Noraaa jumps up the suspect list.

Do what you want, but just because I wasn't antsy to push a lynch that was already going through doesn't make me scum.

No, I agree, I don't see how that proves a scum motivation. But then again, not dropping the hammer was achieving nothing other than wasting time, even if red was town. With eight votes, and most people not umming and arring, pretty sure he was dead shit.

[TeChNoWC]

hrm

no

VOTE: BK201

mogri gets to live for 1 day he's probably a member of the other scumteam but w/e i'm giving him a pass for 1 day

??Huh??

Your explanation for voting BK??

dood he is a member of RED's scum team. read the thread.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion, BK. If anything I would have thought that Mogri is on another mafia team. Considering you thought redff was town, not sure why you are assuming this.

jeff told me who he is and i'm not sure what to believe

Wtf is this about.

ok i am developing a really worrisomely massive man crush on uberninja

Also also, dumb question because I've never played nightless: do scum usually have private chat in this format?

i want to call this a solid town tell (or, given the possibility of solo third parties, non-mafia tell) but i feel like yes is the way too obvious answer to this question. then again i could be wrong.

petapan BBmolla

BK201
Blonde Doctor

crypto

Hiraki

inte

TeChNoWC Major Minor

Matias

mb53

Mogri

(crossed out on the very liberal assumption that the last line of 718 is a town tell)
Nobody Special
noraaa

Pine

(crossed out on the very liberal assumption that 151 is a town tell)

UberNinja Vifam

Psyche VitorMachado

i fucking hate games with multiple scum teams; when you get a role pm saying you are part of the "blue mafia" or whatever it ought to be 10 times easier for you to find the motivation to fake scum hunting since you really aren't faking it at all

I don't see how this is a towntell, but more of a very blatant scummy mislead.

mogri why aren't you voting

why are you speculating on mechanics rather than scumhunting

Yeah, I wonder why.

[TeChNoWC]

UN, I'm scummy, what more do you need to know

not sure if srs...

What about NS? What is the NS deal?

NS is scummy cause he wants to lynch people that he knows aren't scum (me), and subconsciously admitted it while making a huge fabricated OMGUS post that has nothing whatsoever to do with me being scum.

Here's where he does it: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4022718

And here's where I call him out: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4022815

Also, what are the odds that there is actually only one scum team and Ythan is trolling us?

I'd say extremely low based on just about everything I know about Mafia, this site, and Ythan.

Though I'd say it is scummy for you to insinuate that, and it makes you more likely to be on another color scum team, and trying to make people think it doesn't exist.

Mogri's scumclaim looks like classic scum double bluff.

And yeah, his insinuation was scummy.

You feel he has a case now? I think it would be much better to lynch Mogri today, since, like I said earlier, NS hasn't been on for awhile and will likely get replaced, so then D3 we can get shit out of the replacement.

[TeChNoWC]

Ah, didn't see his little prod dodge post. I still feel as though he has posted so little that I can't read him properly. I'm more confident about a Mogri D2 lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

Everything I do is scummy. Heck, my

town tells

are scummy. That's cool.

VOTE: BBmolla even if I can't see this getting too much traction

Sorry bro, but yeah. Even this.

Care to explain why BBMolla? Sure there is a case against him, but I would like to hear your reasoning. Oh, and we aren't voting for BB anymore. Not sure if you noticed while you were skimming through the thread, but BB was replaced.

[TeChNoWC]

Since you're confident on Mogri, would you mind explaining to me why *you* think he's scum?

Dude, I have plenty of times, I gave you a detailed analysis last time you asked me. Look up my post activity, I think I've done about three or four rants on
"101 reasons why Mogri is scum."

I wouldn't say 'confident', but more confident than anyone else, and I'm getting NO town tells from him.

[TeChNoWC]

Was wondering if you also had any scummy reads on petapan. So far he has displayed towntells (which BB failed to do), but he seems more experienced than BB and so may be hiding it well. I'm still getting some scummy vibes, but I really wouldn't be happy lynching him today, unless he did something outrageous.

Considering NS did reply and isn't going to be replaced as I initially thought, I would possibly lynch him today, though not confidently.

BD was another small consideration, but I want to wait for a replacement.

Inte was yet another, but he has shown improvement recently. I would probably consider him for D3 depending on how things pan out, but not keen on lynching him today.

Pine I have to look up on.

So basically, Mogri, my two main scummy reads for a D2 lynch (and like crypto, I don't want this to drag on any longer than necessary) are you and NS.

[TeChNoWC]

you know I think I overestimated Mogri's bussing ability. I thought red was town and mogri was scum for making red his first vote and just kinda coasting with it after. but I also though if red was actually scum then mogri was blatantly busing him. and now he buses my other scummiest read on BB's slot, I think I see a trend xD

Me too. And its a possible sign that he is trying to draw attention to other players on the top of people's scumlists, to avoid the lynch. I empathise with his 'everything I do is scummy to you guys' statement, in that at this stage, there is not a lot he could say that would make me think he is town, very quickly. If he survived D2 and D3 and seemed to become more town over that period of time, sure. Not much he could say right now though. He's been backed into a corner.

I would be happy to give him one more day and see what happens, and lynch NS, but I would still rather lynch Mogri. It's up to how the bandwagons go, really. BK, what is your take on NS? Sorry, hard to keep up with everyone's reads on everyone without skimming through the threads a million times.

[TeChNoWC]

My thoughts so far:

Matias - neutral
BK201 - neutral/town
petapan - neutral
UberNinja - neutral/town
TeChNoWC - sexalicious
Mogri - scum
inte - neutral
noraaa - neutral
crypto - neutral
Pine - neutral
Nobody Special -neutral/scum
Psyche - neutral
mb53 - neutral/town
Blonde Doctor - neutral/scum
redFF - obviously town, no doubt
Hiraki - neutral/town

If you don't like something, tell me, and I'd be happy to tell you my thoughts on it.

Let's get on with lynching Mogri.

[TeChNoWC]

Considering giving Matias a slash town, lol

[TeChNoWC]

Hurry up people that need to vote, and vote for one of the two bandwagons.

[TeChNoWC]

vote for one of the two bandwagons.

Why? Deadline's far off.

Deadline is not really an issue, considering the top vote will always get lynched. Why keep Mogri at L3 all the way until deadline and simply waste time? I guess there is some rationale behind waiting (someone might say something stupid and something else might develop) but it seems to me that most of the people that are doing minor scumhunting directed away from Mogri or NS are either
1. Scummy
2. Posting very little, not providing in-depth examples and clearly unable to provide support for a different lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

I knew it wouldn't do any god.

noraaaaaaaa, nightless does not necessarily mean no night kill.

I think it's safer to assume there is no nightkill; another reason I would be assuming there is none is because of the probable presence of multiple mafia groups, meaning if EODK's (end of day kills :p) were in effect, then wouldn't there be multiple EODK's? and if so, what is the likelihood that multiple mafia groups forgot to EODK?

NS recent postings have given me townreads. At this stage I would be more hesitant to lynch him. Mogri bandwagon is a go.

[TeChNoWC]

I knew it wouldn't do any god.

noraaaaaaaa, nightless does not necessarily mean no night kill.

I think it's safer to assume there is no nightkill; another reason I would be assuming there is none is because of the probable presence of multiple mafia groups, meaning if EODK's (end of day kills :p) were in effect, then wouldn't there be multiple EODK's? and if so, what is the likelihood that multiple mafia groups forgot to EODK?

NS recent postings have given me townreads. At this stage I would be more hesitant to lynch him. Mogri bandwagon is a go.

How quick was the red lynch? If it was submitted during the day then I don't see why they would wait till the very end to do it, since like NS said they could have been snuck up on and missed their chance.

anyways, if you're town vote mogri.

p.s. NS you're in too many games since you're behind in all the ones you were in with me.

Agreed.

NS, that is not enough and hardly proactive.

Agreed.

[TeChNoWC]

@Mogri: To be fair, as soon as I had knowledge of mod meta lending itself towards the idea that the game was mountainous I pretty much abandoned the bit you quoted. A history of mountainous Nightless normal games does not ASSURE us that this is the same, but it's not too much of a stretch.

That said, I took the liberty of viewing you in iso, since I believe you appeared at the tail end of the section I read tonight, and I've determined that unless I missed something glaring, the wagon against you is probably shit. I can count two minor points against you, and one of them isn't even indicative of alignment. So yeah, I'm going to have to pay extra special close attention to how your wagon develops.

In other news, as I'm relatively certain that you've been keeping up with the game, I'd like the synopsis I requested in my first post.

Look through much of my postings if you want a third party synopsis. Hopefully it might help, to a degree.

Any other reasons for voting inte? His recent postings seem somewhat 'townish'. You have any leads on why conceding to a Mogri lynch would be a bad idea? Is there any indication he is town, in your reads?

[TeChNoWC]

@Mogri: To be fair, as soon as I had knowledge of mod meta lending itself towards the idea that the game was mountainous I pretty much abandoned the bit you quoted. A history of mountainous Nightless normal games does not ASSURE us that this is the same, but it's not too much of a stretch.

That said, I took the liberty of viewing you in iso, since I believe you appeared at the tail end of the section I read tonight, and I've determined that unless I missed something glaring, the wagon against you is probably shit. I can count two minor points against you, and one of them isn't even indicative of alignment. So yeah, I'm going to have to pay extra special close attention to how your wagon develops.

In other news, as I'm relatively certain that you've been keeping up with the game, I'd like the synopsis I requested in my first post.

Look through much of my postings if you want a third party synopsis. Hopefully it might help, to a degree.

Any other reasons for voting inte? His recent postings seem somewhat 'townish'. You have any leads on why conceding to a Mogri lynch would be a bad idea? Is there any indication he is town, in your reads?

If you'd like to provide a single post, brief synopsis of the game from YOUR perspective, you may feel free. I did, after all, request that one person who is not being voted do so. I'm not going to treat an iso of you as that synopsis. That would just be silly.

(Disclaimer: The following paragraph is written entirely based on the first 10 pages of the game and should not be considered a full or final case by any means)My reasons for voting inte at this point are pretty well summed up in my first big post. To summarize, he comes out of the gate calling himself a "gut player" which is a minor tell in my book due to the fact that if unchallenged it allows him to go after pretty much whoever he wants with little to no explanation. On top of that, he dodges questions, blatantly refuses to elaborate on things he says, and we have the lovely declaration that he's willing to push for the lynch of someone purely because he dislikes the way they move their vote more than he thinks is necessary. Explanation for why that's scummy can be found in the post where I mentioned it first.

I'm not completely sold on lynching inte at this exact moment, but unless the remaining 2/3 of the game have him dramatically changing or someone else becoming an even larger suspect, I see no reason not to be voting him, and will be pushing for his lynch.

I like how you call lynching Mogri "conceding" to his lynch. As for indication that he's town, I believe I made that more than clear in the post you quoted. I went through his iso. His posting is decent. The only point AGAINST him I was able to find is that he cared about how switching his vote at one point would affect his image. But still, that's minor and the rest of his posting in isolation looks pretty good. He's kept a cool head and continued scumhunting while under pressure and at no point has he resorted to shit flinging, attempts to distract from his lynch, or any classic scum methods of eliminating suspicion. Not that I know why he was under suspicion in the first place, but I'll get to that when I can. All in all, he looks like pretty clear cut town to me, and if the rest of my read doesn't change my mind, I will be fighting against his lynch.

Note: This post was written in the small amount of free time I have today. It's unlikely that I will be able to post anything else until at least late tonight, but much more likely sometime tomorrow.

In terms of inte this "...if unchallenged it allows him to go after pretty much whoever he wants with little to no explanation. On top of that, he dodges questions, blatantly refuses to elaborate on things he says, and we have the lovely declaration that he's willing to push for the lynch of someone purely because he dislikes the way they move their vote more than he thinks is necessary", have you not noticed that NS does this a lot more than inte? I have no reason to defend him other than that the reasoning you give fits NS a lot more than inte, and I will consider the fact you have overlooked NS because you are still scrolling through earlier posts.

I disagree that someone declaring themselves as a 'gut player' is a scum tell; myself, crypto, BK and others have all stated at times that our reasons for voting was part logic/ part vibe. Some things come down to experience and can't be explained. The more experienced a player is, the more able they probably are to articulate the reasoning of this vibe, so calling oneself a 'gut player', while it could be used as a scum tactic in the fashion you described, could simply be a brash, inexperienced town unable to articulate their suspicions (and probably having unreasoned, stupid ones). I will make an effort to look back through his postings, but the descriptions you give had me sitting here thinking I wanted to lynch NS over inte, because it sounded like you were talking about NS.

You need to read through my posts, and mogri's recent postings for the case on him. Also look at his vote on 'BBMolla' and tell me that does not look like scum skimming through the posts. He could be right in losing disinterest in the game, but he never said WHY he was disinterested, just used that as a cover, and even with disinterest and little posting manages to fling quick votes on others, something you said was a scumtell.

I am having second thoughts about Mogri, and am considering that NS may be a better lynch today, but inte isn't coming across as scummy to me as he obviously is to you.

[TeChNoWC]

This post cares too much what others think.

Okay.

Uber, contributing thoughts are important, either to help town pick scum, or to help town pick him as scum.

Don't be encouraging people to act like the truckload of non-contributors that are clogging up this game. That's the last thing we need.

[TeChNoWC]

technowc pretty much hit the nail on the head
i pretty much tunnel if i try to lay down reasoning too hard

until i feel like my read is strong, i wont be able to find reasons to back it up how i feel

also, y'all (cept UberNinja and possibly crypto) dumb. go vote Nobody Special.

kids obvi scum

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

UNVOTE:
VOTE: inte

(also nobody special is almost definitely much older than you)

Yeah, I read his post and thought, thanks for bigging me up dude but.... massive scumtell lol

I'm abandoning this wagon for now, seems we may have much bigger scum to fry...

Unvote

[TeChNoWC]

inte, my last game I got so so so much flak for not voting much, esp day 1. I've been slowly getting better at voting more in tune with my reads but seriously. You can't hold onto your vote AND your reads forever. If you don't want to die, that is.

Stop making excuses and step up to the plate. Or die.

What are you talking about? Inte did vote, he voted for NS, one of the leading wagons.

Not sure he has been holding onto his reads either, though they have been short, said little about why he has said scum reads, and change rapidly. But I can't say that no one else has been doing this either, and some a lot worse.

[TeChNoWC]

Crypto on last page looks realy town actually, I have a hard time seeing scum flip-flop like that. Hrm. I really need to put more thought into this game, don't I.

Yeah, you should.

Mod, mb53 should be prodded.

I'm getting sick of the amount of replacements/inactive players in this game. It's as if people want to opt out through the first few lynches/bandwagons and cruise through.

I realise people have lives to attend to, but requesting replacement would be nicer than simply slipping into inactivity until you are either prodded or replaced.

Mb53, if you are town, please hurry the fuck up and act like it, or get out.

[TeChNoWC]

Kairyuu dropped an amish'd if you guys hadn't notice (twice he mentioned his predecessor actually), and I'd be voting him if NS wasn't being the way he is
Hiraki is pissing me off some , but its not indicative of alignment
noraa is town
UberNinja is town
petapan is barely thinking about his reads
Pine is coasting

anyone else has a lack of activity

go vote Nobody Special

Love how I have a lack of activity, when every third post is mine.

I think we need scumreads again.

Mogri
NS
inte

[TeChNoWC]

Circular reasoning. You don't give an argument for your vote. I say you haven't given an argument. You say that only scum would say that.

??????????

I can do this too! Watch: You don't give an argument for your vote. Town don't generally do that, scum does it a lot (if they're dumb). But here's the secret difference between these two arguments:

mine makes sense.

So let me repeat: why are you voting for me? This should be a

really easy

question to answer. But despite UN asking it all day yesterday and me today, no one has anything.

Well, except for petapan.

(laugh track)

I'm with Mogri on this one, a lot of people are backing him into a corner and assuming everything he says is scummy on the prior assumption he is scum. However Mogri, there have been reasons given, particularly on my part anyway. I'm starting to think NS is a better lynch though.


Will post more later tonight.

[TeChNoWC]

Really not getting this.

As much as I'm still

very

on the line about NS.

Vote: Inte

Says the guy who's voting obvious town NS.

Alarm bells ringing.

Hiraki, wtf.

[TeChNoWC]

Alarm bells ringing.

Hiraki, wtf.

Good spotting. Forgot to talk about this.

So, some questions because I'm lazy:

Why is inte STILL totally voteless??

Has there been discussion about whether the lynch was quick enough that it caught (both?) mafia offguard, thus, no NK?

Has peta been as scummy as BBmolla was?

Who should I vote?

This was the main reason for concern, like everyone else noted.

However,

noraaaaaaaaaaa, i KNOW the game is nightless. Please to actually READ my question, then answer appropriately. Thanks!

This is like uber NS town meta.

As scum, he lurks more than this and from what I've seen rarely pushes on a question. There's a decently well chance of NStown here.

Post 784 was/is my biggest scumread on NS. Do you have links to some of this meta though? A game where NS was confirmed scum?

[TeChNoWC]

Very tempted to follow at this point, but I am not prepared to lynch Hiraki after one slip up, even if it seems a major one. Even town can make those bullshit mistakes as well, it's just less likely.

Part of me says lynch him, but another (hopefully the slightly smarter part) says watch him closely, and see if he slips again.

[TeChNoWC]

NS is lurking so...

So... You want me to lynch him? Is that what you were trying to say?

I'm still deliberating.

[TeChNoWC]

As scum, he lurks more than this and from what I've seen rarely pushes on a question. There's a decently well chance of NStown here.

He lurks more than this? How is that even possible.

I've definitely noticed that every time he's "called" me on ANYthing I've said about him/the game, he's been talking down to me (I guess that's his style) and acting like I'm not reading the game (hypocritical) but when I totally back up what I originally said, even adding to it in some cases, he really has nothing to say most of the time.

He doesn't really lay much of anything out, just pops in and out as he pleases. Most of his posts are worthless, and the ones where he tries he gives up or spouts weird nonsense for most of it. If that's town play, it's shitty town play.


Hiraki, how on earth can you think he's "obvious" town. I mean, seriously. One comment where he acts like I didn't answer his question and talks down to me, yup that totally makes him town. Again.. if he's town, he's shitty town. If he's scum, Hiraki's scum too, I betcha betcha. I say we get rid of the shitty player, see his flip, and decide where to go after that.

unvote, vote NS

UN- man I just don't follow the stuff you say. Sorry. Your way of talking in code just flies over my head. If you want me to super secret vote for someone then just come out and say it and I'll think about it and get back to you. Cause you know, the vote would be pretty publicly visable.

Also I play how I wanna play, not how you wanna play. And etc etc with every other player here. Soooo I'll vote for whom and when I decide to. But again, if you think I'm missing something, I can be just as dense as anyone else, that's why I play, to get smarter, so please do spell whatever you're trying to say out to me. But politely, please. I get bitchy when I'm treated bitchily.

I totally agree with this, and is an example of fine scumhunting. You put the argument together so succinctly, I am sold.

Vote: Nobody Special

Let's do this.

[TeChNoWC]

Those who are on the Hiraki wagon, I would assume would agree that NS is scum (if Hiraki is scum because of what he said, he was likely covering for NS).

Scum is scum, let's lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

[quote="TeCHNoWC"}Those who are on the Hiraki wagon, I would assume would agree that NS is scum (if Hiraki is scum because of what he said, he was likely covering for NS).

This is false, and you should realize this.[/quote]

Maybe I used strong language. Instead of likely I should have said POTENTIALLY, but otherwise I stand by what I said. I said ASSUMING you are scum (which is what your wagon is doing, not me), then your trip up was potentially an underlying realisation on your part that NS is acting scummy, but you also want to save him. Or, again, ASSUMING you are scum, then the trip up might just be you not keeping a record of your stated scumtells.

I can see your point from the threads, but it isn't clear cut. He still shows elements of both in this game, but it does exhonorate some of his odd behaviours. However, the 'who should I vote for' post is VERY indicative of his behaviour in the scumthread.

Tell me, when did you come to the realisation that NS' behaviour is indicative of his town meta?

[TeChNoWC]

I am instinctively wary of Techno's assertion that NS scum = Hiraki scum. Using absolutes like that...it feels like a trap.

Love the Admiral Ackbar reference, though doesn't Lando say it?

I never made an absolute nor assumed that either was scum. But I was highly suspicious of both Hiraki and NS after Hiraki's post (Hiraki for the post, NS for past scummy postings) and I gathered that if YOU assumed that Hiraki was scum (and you jumped on it quite quickly), then you also assumed NS was scum, and implored you to join in lynching him, as it seemed more appropriate to lynch him before Hiraki (Hiraki seemed a lot less scummy, lynching NS could provide more insight into Hiraki's alignment, NS was easier to lynch today within the time period, and trying to lynch Hiraki might inadvertantly allow someone else to get lynched eg Mogri or inte, who I felt were more likely to be town than NS).

Hiraki's response has since made me realise that there are two varying characteristics of play between town NS and scum NS, but I think Hiraki has overlooked some of the behaviours that NS has displayed in this game, that he also displayed in scum.

I certainly don't think Hiraki should be lynched now, as he has followed up on his explanation, but it doesn't convince me that NS is not scum. Harder to tell, maybe, but some of his scum behaviours in his scum meta, are exclusive to that meta (though I will check the town meta more thoroughly) and yet he displays them in this game, leading me to the conclusion that he is more than likely scum.

[TeChNoWC]

Love the Admiral Ackbar reference, though doesn't Lando say it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4

Lrn2meme

I never made an absolute nor assumed that either was scum.

Now, I'm getting wary. You didn't make an absolute, but you were appealing to everyone on my wagon to get the fuck off and go to NS, because he needs to die first.

This looks pretty bad for me, and I don't like it.

Hiraki's response has since made me realise that there are two varying characteristics of play between town NS and scum NS, but I think Hiraki has overlooked some of the behaviours that NS has displayed in this game, that he also displayed in scum.

Maybe, but I'm going to say that he's town for now. If you're going to call me scummy for that

well

come at me bitches

I never said you were scummy for the reason you quoted me on. I have since stated that you are no longer hot on my scum radar, because I don't believe you were bullshitting about the 'two different sides to NS' thing. Two things that still bug me though, is that you disregarded my question (when did you realise this) and instead tried to shy away from it by making a show of my comments, and two, you didn't address my reasoning that NS displays scummy aspects that he displayed in his scum meta, even if he displays aspects of his town meta.

Well, I didn't see any self-votes

nor did I see any pleas/begs/bargins

nope

he's not begging

wow no more posts for you

He said Lando for Admiral Ackbar

The fucking alien only has 5 lines in the movie

and he messes up one?

fuck him

george lucas' normal babies are precious

can't fuck up stuff like that

it's like saying that the death star was built on endor

FALSE

it was built on a MOON OF ENDOR

Don't see why he would have to say 'moon of endor' to be correct in his statement, if something happens in a town outside of New York City but still belonging to the municipality of New York, then I can either say it was in Town X, Town X near New York, or even just New York. The moon of Endor still belongs to the Endor System, so is still in Endor.

inte is still terrible and scum but so is mogri, his wagon is larger, this is a nightless game we should kill them both and nobody special can go too why is this so agonizing

Trans:

Let's just lynch everyone that anyone suspects and sort it out later.

Yep, this guy suuuuuuuuuure is town, all right.

To be honest Mogri is coming across as more town than NS, and I would rather lynch NS at this stage. But the reasoning that we could lynch both is not scummy at all, given the circumstances. I don't like all the bullshit reasoning that's been flying around though (let's lynch him because he is a dick) that is either town eagerness, or a sign of scummyness, and no, the reasons purported that Mogri is 'definitely scum' I think are just out of eagerness for blood.

I am still prepared to hammer Mogri, but I would rather see the NS wagon a go.

[TeChNoWC]

If you were reading the threads, you would have noticed that Hiraki provided examples, which is what our entire argument has been about. Go back through Hiraki's posts and you will find the links.

[TeChNoWC]

Initial impression of Psyche is rather positive, but his 331 places a relatively strong link between him and red. We'll see where that goes.

UberNinja reminds me of Xtoxm before he stopped caring. I like that. Disagree with some of his reads, but town for now.

Only ways a post can get deleted are:

1. select all + delete/backspace, which can be solved by a Ctrl Z or an Edit > Undo
2. browser crash, which can be solved by clicking "restore tabs" or "restore browser session" when your browser reopens
3. loss of internet connection, which can be solved by clicking "< back", selecting & copy/pasting your post after signing in again when the internet comes back on
4. aliens/tigers/etc

In the past at least, mafiascum would time a user out if they did nothing for too long. I have lost a fair number of extremely lengthy posts to this, and it always made me very sad. Not at all indicative of Psyche's alignment, and a VERY poor reason for a vote when you already have plenty to build a legitimate case with. I'm not liking this post.

I'm beginning to like crypto.

And now UberNinja is just being an annoying ass to everyone. Lovely. Not indicative of alignment, but can we tone the hostility down a bit? Honestly.

Mogri has done nothing to make me think he's scum, but for some reason he's got a wagon. It's kind of annoying. Are people just not reading?

Now this is interesting.

@Techno: The change from:

- crypto and FF have been acting like neighbours the whole game. Makes me think the Mogri bandwagon is a mafia lynch plot.

to being, as far as I can tell, the leading proponent of a Mogri lynch, especially after a redFF scum flip, is something I'm very interested in seeing.

Ok, now that a few pages have passed, with all of . . 1, MAYBE 2 posts by Mogri, he's second on your scumlist for . . . absolutely no reason. Not liking this.

Post 576 you clearly state that you are considering the idea of Mogri "pushing flak" onto "town-redFF." Everything I've seen regarding your Mogri case thus far has been contingent on red being town, and your initial read of him has redFF-scum pushing Mogri-town. But yet a redFF-scum flip not only doesn't change your opinion (as evidenced by the fact that you were voting him as of when I replaced and were adamant about his scumminess) but it puts him into the TOP SPOT for a lynch. This is extremely inconsistent reasoning, and reeks of scum to me.

BK201 is repeatedly claiming he has a strong case against Mogri (which I believe boils down to "he's bussing redFF for reasons") and then distancing himself from a potential Mogri lynch by calling Day 1 cases automatically bad. This is quite scummy to me.

If me and uber switch to mogri, mogri still needs 2. I'm eager for a lynch too, but whats one day. Let's just pick the best one, lynch the other fucker tommorrow.

And again we see that Techno has gone from views of redFF and Mogri that are completely dependent on each other, to being perfectly happy to lynch both, with NO REASONING as to why. Rapidly creeping up on inte in scumminess right now.

AAAAAAAAAND I'm done catching up.

Scumreads (in order of scumminess):

Techno
inte
BK201
NS

Townreads (in no particular order):

noraaa
Matias
Mogri
Psyche
crypto

Everyone else is neutral, obviously

unvote
vote: TeChNoWC

Perfectly willing to lynch inte, but I'd prefer a Techno lynch today. BK201 and NS I could potentially get behind, but I'm somewhat less confident on the reads.

Wait... You want to lynch me over TWO scumreads, one (the crypto/redff neighbour comment) that I said in my first post as a POSSIBLE read when I hadn't finished my update, and later recanted as inaccurate, and the second being on my eagerness to lynch two very scummy reads, one that ended up as scum? And you are willing to lynch one of the most active scumhunters over a plethora of scummy acting players?

I would have less of an issue over this post if there were like five people left in the game and everyone seemed towny, but even then these are bullshit reads. But for it to be NOW is even worse, sheer insanity, that you would not only vote for me over it, but be pushing to lynch me so hastily. I have never seen such a bullshit comment. Still, it doesn't tell me you are necessarily scummy, as you are scumhunting and there are, as I said, a plethora of other choices, that appear more scummy even than that comment. For now I am just passing it off as stupidity; even for a scum to say this would be stupid (though maybe not, as stupid reasons still give other scum an opening to quicklynch a townie).

I am just hoping your idiotic post doesn't catch the attention of what could be a very large cohort of scum voters, giving them a slither of a reason to vote me. Let's hope this doesn't cost us the game, because as I saw it, town was on a sure path to victory. I would be ashamed to have participated in a nightless game as town, where town lost; and one which such clear cut scum as this game. Luckily, there does seem to be some (I am hoping they are) townies in this game with their heads screwed on, so it shouldn't come to that.

[TeChNoWC]

"Post 576 you clearly state that you are considering the idea of Mogri "pushing flak" onto "town-redFF." Everything I've seen regarding your Mogri case thus far has been contingent on red being town, and your initial read of him has redFF-scum pushing Mogri-town. But yet a redFF-scum flip not only doesn't change your opinion (as evidenced by the fact that you were voting him as of when I replaced and were adamant about his scumminess) but it puts him into the TOP SPOT for a lynch. This is extremely inconsistent reasoning, and reeks of scum to me."

Completely untrue. Your two first sentences contradict each other. CONSIDERING that he was vs. EVERYTHING about my case. My case clearly had more to say than Mogri's interactions with red, and vice versa. And you miss the crux of it anyway. Even IF my entire case was on whether or not Mogri thought redFF was town, the fact that there are potentially two or more scum neighbourhoods means that Mogri could still be scum, and thinking redFF was town - it simply means Mogri would be another coloured mafia.

Maybe I should go through and highlight EVERY instance where another player has contradicted him/herself in terms of there scumreads (and the example you gave of mine isn't even a contradiction) and show you how many times you must have overlooked other players that have actually contradicted themselves. I already highlighted one with Hiraki, and showed that one simple contradiction, while a scumtell, isn't enough to say 'ok, we got him boys, lynch the fucker'. I reckon I could present an entire list of instances of bandwagon flipping, opinion changing without explaining why or backing it up with feasible evidence, logical fallacies, scummy players forgetting who they should vote for and why, potential bussing and quickly changing to 'no, they are a saint', quick votes for the fuck of it and disinterested players, probably because they are missing out on the joy of their desired NK (understandable, but obviously still a scumtell).

And you pick me up on one supposed contradiction you didn't even think about. Fucking ridiculous. And now I suppose you will accuse me of being scummy for overeacting. Fuck it. I am town and you should know it. The only person with 'extremely inconsistent reasoning' here, is you. Tempted to lynch you whether you are scum or not, because of your fucked up logic that is going to ruin town. But even while angry, I know better. You obviously don't.

[TeChNoWC]

I just went over all of red's and mogri's posts. Mogri says relatively nothing which seems scummy. He contributes very little. His 'detrimental to town' (he says detrimental twice) sounds like something a scum might say. Other than that, I see little on him.

red says a bit more, but always little tiny posts with nothing but dry humour or taunts, no real scumhunting. While I hate mogri's wording, he was right in saying that red's comment on inte was useless. How is someone being mafia in another game mean that they are likely to be mafia in this game? Unless you can show they are behaving tactically the same, which he made no comment to, how is it at all relevant? I don't find any of red's comments relevant other than when he declared V/LA.

Both seem lynch worthy, red more so.

TeCh I think the only person on my radar you really didn't talk about was mb. I can't decide if he's incompetent, or scum (no offense to mb but).

How was my early setup spec detrimental to town in any way? I had relevant information and I shared it.

I've explained this already, but Ythan's past setups are not especially relevant to this game. None of the VTs has information on the setup and your speculation is effectively a VT softclaim. Scumteam has better knowledge about the setup, and if they happen to know that this is

not

mountainous, then you've eliminated yourself as a potential PR.

That's assuming you're town. Your motivation as scum is obvious PR-fishing.

PROVE ME WRONG, HATERS

Well, I must say, that read was full of shit and there is nothing I really want to respond to. But after my time off, I have flipped on red. After an ISO, I see the only thing he has done is talk about it being mountainous and join whichever bandwagon he pleases with very 'meh' reasons.

And since morgi doesn't have enough support for a lynch...

unvote, vote: redff

TeCh I think the only person on my radar you really didn't talk about was mb. I can't decide if he's incompetent, or scum (no offense to mb but).

None taken. I know I'm not a mafia-playing master. Not even close.

Myself either.

Posts like the one you quoted above of Mogri's are making me even more suspicious of him. I am starting to feel more definite about him being scum than red, in some ways.

I would still like to see your scumreads though. Top three. If the mogri bandwagon can get going, I personally wouldn't hesitate in lynching him. Most of the people that think red is scum seem to have Mogri in their scumreads as well, and some people still attest to red being scum. I would like the scumreads to see if there is a clear nine in support of someone scummy. I'm keeping a tally, don't worry. This ball needs to get rolling and fast.

UN, I'm scummy, what more do you need to know

not sure if srs...

What about NS? What is the NS deal?

NS is scummy cause he wants to lynch people that he knows aren't scum (me), and subconsciously admitted it while making a huge fabricated OMGUS post that has nothing whatsoever to do with me being scum.

Here's where he does it: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4022718

And here's where I call him out: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4022815

Also, what are the odds that there is actually only one scum team and Ythan is trolling us?

I'd say extremely low based on just about everything I know about Mafia, this site, and Ythan.

Though I'd say it is scummy for you to insinuate that, and it makes you more likely to be on another color scum team, and trying to make people think it doesn't exist.

Mogri's scumclaim looks like classic scum double bluff.

And yeah, his insinuation was scummy.

You feel he has a case now? I think it would be much better to lynch Mogri today, since, like I said earlier, NS hasn't been on for awhile and will likely get replaced, so then D3 we can get shit out of the replacement.

why are people freaking out about deadline did any of you read the rules to this game

or even the title of the game

True. I looked for rules but didn't see the scum button, assumed there were only basic rules and we would find out what happened at the end of a day when it happened.

Seems we don't need to focus on numbers for a lynch.

That being said, we still need to be sorting out the mogri/red debate, because a hunch tells me that if there are no NK's (I'm assuming there aren't?) then there is a lot of scum in this game (again, indicative of the large number of scumreads) and the town majority is not that large. Getting a wrong vote could have disastrous effects on town's majority. Some people were saying that a D1 lynch is not that important, and that we can't make an accurate decision, but I think in this game particularly, lynching a mafia D1 is imperative.

I'm currently undecided about the red/mogri debate, both seem scum; I really wish the two were giving more input in defending themselves so we can get a more accurate read. Red, saying there is no case against you is bullshit, read back to my initial posts, there's a few points there and others have contributed as well. At this point I think you should be giving a better case. I'm not so hung up on the policy lynch issue, but it's just one of a sample of bad votes you've performed.

God, Jesus fucking Christ, I just wanted to quick-hammer redFF.

Mogri is coming across scummier. We could as easily quicklynch him; maybe.

did i mention that i FUCKING LOVE how NOBODY is giving me the Mogri case?

cause, yeah

Just a vibe. He speaks technically and his posts seem to have no uniform purpose, like he is picking random things to say to hide his scumness. His general reaction to scumhunting in that he interjects at odd times with odd comments that achieve nothing. He never bothered to give me scumreads (from memory, correct me if I am wrong), he just tries to throw random suspiscions on others but doesn't seem contemplative of his suspiscions, emotionally engaged with them or even assured of what he is trying to say. He is trying to fly under the radar with a very odd style that just screams scum.

I won't doubt that other players are doing similar things, but that doesn't make Mogri any less scummy, just that we potentially have a large neighbourhood of scum.

Been looking back through NS, I can't read him properly. He offers little. I would say neutral, leaning towards scum. Inte is my next analysis project

This enough evidence that your ONE stupid idea about the two of them having roles dependent on the other is bullshit. You must have skimmed through and seen my earlier post about the mogri wagon, which I recanted, and decided this was my whole case. Read up mate, there is plenty there, and NOTHING about what you said.

Tommorrow I will attempt to present a list of EVERY scummy action since the start of the game, that I am assuming will be an entire page long post, just for your reading. For now, I'm off to get fucked up.

[TeChNoWC]

But the reasoning that we could lynch both is not scummy at all, given the circumstances.

And if that were all, then I'd agree, but he seems perfectly happy to also lynch inte. Now for your homework assignment: read this post and tell me how peta's statement reads to you.

I agreed with peta's reading at the time, and inte's comment did come across as scummy, as I stated earlier. Peta does worry me though... He seems too eager and potentially tries to draw attention away from himself, but I have no big scumreads on him. I wish he did more scumhunting and gave a little bit more input, but overall he is pretty good with it so far. I understand why you might think this comment is slightly scummy (his eagerness to lynch shines through here) but that can also be a towntell.

[TeChNoWC]

Unvote
Vote: TeChNoWC

Lynch me. Fuck this game.

I'm town, anyone who isn't crypto or hiraki, or scum, is an idiot.

Hopefully my lynch will actually help town win, when I flip and people start actually voting for the real scum for real reasons. Btw, overreacting is NOT a scumtell. I have never seen scum overreact, only town.

[TeChNoWC]

Then lynch me. I'm lying, filthy scum, and I admit it. Go mafia blue!

[TeChNoWC]

I will die anyway, no lynches aren't happening. No point dragging it out further, even if I survive this round, I will likely be lynched in future in the next few rounds, and my scumhunting won't be trusted. I can't serve town anymore other than flipping town to put pressure on the people that voted for me.

[TeChNoWC]

Good hunting guys. I am town. Cya.

[TeChNoWC]

Not sure if I am still allowed to be posting but hopefully the mod will understand, felt a need to explain myself, my dad died.

[TeChNoWC]

Peta yo sly superbussing scumfucky dogg!

Well done. Good win. Setup seemed pretty even (8 town 8 mafia) considering the mafia were in two teams. Had it been one team it would have swung too heavily in mafia's favour, not sure if daychat would have made it too hard for town as well.

Maybe a day PR might have been good though? Like a fairly weak one? Not sure.

/peta for scummy, yeeeeyup.

And sorry about earlier again guys, I kinda let town down big time but RL got crazy all of a sudden. Wasn't a good time for me. Slooowly getting through it but thankyou to everyone that was understanding. Realistically I should have explained what happened and replaced out, but I was a stubborn fuck. Know better for next time I guess.

Scum deserved that win, well played by most especially peta. Considering no NK it was quite a different scumgame and scum adapted pretty well. I think bussing like crazy was probably the key for a scumwin in a setup like this and peta really pulled that off well.

[TeChNoWC]

Honestly I think changing your avatar from the troll shades to the innocent cat helped.

FOR SURE.

Nicey nice avatars always remind me of nice, fluffy, friendly townies....

Sly scumbag

[TeChNoWC]

Hey BK can I somehow show support for this nomination, if that would help?

[TeChNoWC]

@crypto: UN didn't get me lynched anyway, I did (plus a bit of help from Kairyuu).

I honestly don't think I would have helped much endgame. I didn't read the thread militantly but even on my death, most of my scumreads were townies (I was starting to suspect mogri was town, but I would have pushed through probs 2-3 townie mislynches and then been lynched for it myself). I pushed hard for red's lynch and was right about that, but little else. I thought CF was the last scum. I probably would have attempted to get people to look at peta more critically (he seemed to get waaaay too much trust), but I probs would have followed him like the others nonetheless.

In hindsight it was probably good I got lynched when I did because I would have most likely led town down a trail of destruction. Take BK for example. I never suspected him as maf for a second, yet his voting was obviscum I just never picked up on it. I also thought both UN and Hiraki were town. I thought Pine was scum until the very end where he had good town play (I thought anyway). CF seemed keen to survive in lylo and his comment about lylo early on made me think he knew about the 4 man scum teams (rather than three) earlier than town was meant to.

I'm sure if I was playing and actively reading I might have had slightly better reads than this had I survived, but they still probably would have been too far off the mark and I would have destroyed town and myself way before lylo, so I am kind of glad I died when I did. I'm not sure why Kairyuu didn't try and support me and leave me around to get through mislynches, particularly when I don't think whiteknighting Mogri would have given him towncred seeing as he tried to chop up a towny with no flak (reads out of his arse should have screamed scum really). Scum could have benefited from keeping me around but maybe he thought I would be dangerous later on, idk. I probs would have got inte lynched earlier than he did but that would have been probs my only saving grace.