Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

I only recognize the other thread and refuse to confirm in this one, even though i'm playing


Juls is that the same Juls from mishmash? I am sorry I was butthead. I usually am not. Please don't knife me.

[popsofctown]

I wuv you Sotty!!


... ok I'm actually sober. I'm not drinking age yet.

[popsofctown]

Vote: hoopla

[popsofctown]

Sigma's post made sense. Vi's didn't.

Lynching someone whose meta you don't know is just extension of "lynch killa 7" logic

[popsofctown]

The logic is similar Vi. You lynch killa seven because you can't ever read him (because he lurks). Likewise, lynching someone you don't know makes sense because you have less power to read that player compared to any other player.

[popsofctown]

Why aren't you opposed to hoopla's avatar?

[popsofctown]

VOTE SPYREX!

Traitorous scum!

Now that that is out of the way, I think pops is scum. I actually have like five likely scum candidates, which is kind of awesome. Others to include: imaginality, Energetic Penguin, and hitogoroshi.

unvote, vote Pops

Pops for his K7 tangent and his 'why aren't you opposed to Hoopla's avatar' comments.
imaginality for posting to say he isn't going to post.
Energetic Penguin for his FOS of Sigma and then vote for Hoopla.
hitogoroshi because I don't like his last two posts.

I don't think sigma is scum.

OMGUS

Unvote, Vote: Charter

The sprinkler system "scumhunting" looks pretty bad to me. You're posting things that have happened, not even in reason form, and then indicating suspicion towards several people for insubstantial reasons. It looks like scum that wants someone else to follow it up, wants several different angles to go to get a mislynch, and overall wants more bodies on the floor. I'm pretty surprised no one else is upset by this.


I still don't really see scumSpyrex. He said he hated meta in my last game i was with him so at least he's consistent.

Confidanon looks bad. He's sheepy and votes with poor reasoning (someone brought up the defensive argument, which is pretty fallacious)

Crypto seems so scummy he can't be scum, voting people and refusing to explain. What the crap Crypto? Are you claiming scum or town right now?

I'm inclined to agree with roflcopter on Maemuki being town. Partly from his rep. Is that a bad reason? Sorry. But she seems town besides.

Guys, please tone down the posting. I don't want to drop out because of time demands. It took me well hour to catch up today. Well.

[popsofctown]

This is a 13 page thread, and no, I didn't note any promise to explain your vote later. And I think you're being pretty rude.

[popsofctown]

Well, I'm reading the thread once, carefully. That's the level of commitment I think I ower to a game. And I missed it. So get used to me missing things of that magnitude henceforth.

Your 515 word post (simulposted with mine) seems to base a case on Maemuki around her getting sidetracked from a question asking for her position on Spyrex. The picture you are trying to paint is that she put it off so she could litmus test the town and align herself before she picked one way or the other and I think that's too reachy to be the case. I think she read him in iso, got sidetracked by recent posts, and didn't mention it. I mean maybe it was a conspiracy to hold off giving her opinion on Spyrex that's a weak tell at best. It just didn't seem that dodgy to me.

[popsofctown]

The sprinkler system "scumhunting" looks pretty bad to me. You're posting things that have happened, not even in reason form, and then indicating suspicion towards several people for insubstantial reasons. It looks like scum that wants someone else to follow it up, wants several different angles to go to get a mislynch, and overall wants more bodies on the floor. I'm pretty surprised no one else is upset by this.

You *seriously* think these are points he intends to follow up on? As though he was laying the groundwork for mislynching later? And yet at the same time they're insubstantial? I agree they're stupid points, but that seems to be more or less the point, and to say this is a 'sprinkler system scumhunt' is kind of silly. Do you think he's going to post D2 saying, "Remember the suspicion I raised earlier regarding hito's joke about hoopla fun dollars? I think we should follow up on that."

That's not how it works. It usually goes down more like:

(later day 1) Vi: Hey, i think Energetic Penguin is super scummy
5 other people: me too! wagon tyme!
Charter: me too
pops: charter is a sheep
charter: no i was suspicious of Energetic Penguin since forever.


It's called keeping your options open as scum, and being able to vote anyone and pretend you were there all along actually works if no one notices.

[popsofctown]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
ConfidAnon ( 8 ) - sigma - CSL - roflcopter - elvis_knits - Pads - Vi - Sotty7 - popsofctown
crypto ( 1 ) Hoopla
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 1 ) - Energetic Penguin
Idiotking ( 0 )
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - crypto - Infinis
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) - charter
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 4 ) - RayFrost - Budja - hiphop - ConfidAnon
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - Juls - imaginality - Psychologic - Maemuki - hitogoroshi
Total Votes ( 25 )

With 25 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

It's called keeping your options open as scum, and being able to vote anyone and pretend you were there all along actually works if no one notices.

Then

notice

if and when it happens. There are enough real accusations flying around to avoid 'I bet x will' ones.

If you see someone making pipe bombs do you have to wait until they do something to arrest them? Town don't legitimately scumhunt in that broad way charter did, and I'm not a fan of "ignore all players with less than 5 votes" or whatever logic.


Crypto seems to have changed from "no she's not forgetful, she's a flipflop". The flipflop really isn't there though. She never voted Spyrex, she just pointed out tells. Everyone has a plus sheet and a minus sheet and she mentioned minuses, there's no rule saying you can't talk about about things other than the ultimate conclusion. So Crypto, that's at best poor reading, at worst, scum build-a-case workshop.

This day DOES need to be shorter so I will

unvote, vote: ConfidAnon

. To be honest what he did was soooo far back now it's fuzzy, but I remember he sheeped onto Spyrex's wagon merely calling him "defensive".

I don't think Hoopla wants to be taken seriously guys. "we're wagonning X now?" is at least somewhat tongue in cheek. I hope. She later posts actual game content.

Eh, feel like i should dig through more and post more to match everyone else but I guess I'll let this umpteen page game get some mercy.

[popsofctown]

I'm not "insisting hoopla will post content"

I'm saying hoopla does post content, and she has more than you.

hito: EP 376 is indeed bad. I think you misread my post. I meant i think hoopla is kidding when she says the only reason she's voting people for random reasons, and I'm saying I'm totally fine with it, the reverse of condemning it. And I do know why I'm voting ConfidAnon, just sayin I had some other reasons too that I can't remember now.
But mostly it boils down to that plurality voting still requires some popularity, so I can't lynch Charter anymore than you can lynch EP (not that I would lynch Charter without getting more posts).

[popsofctown]

EBWOP "..is kidding when she says the only reason she's voting people is

to wagon

"

[popsofctown]

Yeah, the unfair thing is that EP has what, 6 posts? And 1-2 two of them are scummy, creating a massive proportion of scumminess. Yet other players give more to go off of..

Yet the ConfidAnon wagon is bigger even though posting more is something we ought to reward.

Yeah. Screw ending the day.

unvote, vote Energetic Penguin

ConfidAnon will keep posting so he can be read, EP won't.

[popsofctown]

375: pops, you wagon me for wagoning on spyrex, yet ignore Hoopla's wagoning. Why?

I haven't ignored it, I actually pointed it out and said it doesn't bother me. On paper what she does is absolutely inexcusable sheeping and I shouldn't tolerate it and it's scummy. But the way she wagons, shamelessly, "I'm wagonning", and then does actually scumhunt in between vote changes, doesn't look scummy to me. It looks like a style thing.

You, however, did the opposite, you voted spyrex whilst pretending to have a reason. "He's too defensive". Which isn't really a reason. It's tofu. That's what it is.


In conclusion, I'm more interested in punishing the boy who cut down the cherry tree and lied about it than I am about punishing the girl that owned up.

298, Pops is a third scum. If I was a daycop this game... His post comes back to OMGUS on me, then accuse me of "sprinkler scumhunting" on page five or whatever. Also claims to be suspicious of the Crypto/Confid pairing but does nothing about it.

I labelled my post with the letters "OMGUS" sarcastically. OMGUS is an emotional effect that causes people to want to return votes, which, as a mafia vet, i believe i have under control. My vote on you had reasons and I explained them, it's not mere OMGUS.

The next clause of that sentence is you parroting what I said. Explain why I'm scummy. At the very least, explain how I'm wrong.

And yeah, I am suspicious of ConfidAnon and pretty unsure about Crypto, but I only have one vote. Sorry about that. I'm not Vi.

[popsofctown]

roflcopter: Post numbers for Infinis's IioA? He did ignore you, that was pretty lame of him.

[popsofctown]

it's hard not to.

[popsofctown]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 0 )
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 3 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 2 ) RayFrost - Hoopla
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 1 ) roflcopter
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - crypto - Infinis
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 13 ) - Idiotking - Juls - imaginality - Psychologic - Maemuki - sigma - CSL - elvis_knits - Pads - Vi - Sotty7 - Energetic Penguin - charter
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 still needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

Agreed on all points. Idiotking, replacing out of a game for those reasons is unethical. I'm

hoping

you just didn't understand what is and isn't a good reason to replace out of the game, and are usually an ethical person. I would request that should you wish to replace out of this game that you honestly explain the reason you are replacing out to zoraster and remain in the game if he thinks you do not have an appropriate reason for leaving. Mafia games are commitments to each other player in the game.

[popsofctown]

@pops and ray- if you guys agree with hoopla, where are the votes.

It's a spectrum, and EP is much further down the spectrum than IdiotKing. Somehow I think you'd agree fellow voter.


@RC: although I agree that analyzing ConfidAnon wagon would be a good thing, I don't like you laying out the groundwork for this analysis and not putting a foot forth in any direction at all. Just don't feel like you're allowed to cover that many bases.

[popsofctown]

I still read Maemuki as having been consistently neutral.


Pads, what do you think of Spyrex's alignment? If it's already on record, my apologies.

[popsofctown]

*wants to prod a frog with a hot poker*

[popsofctown]

She uses it to make fun of people who accidentally don't let go of the shift key. I think Pads is being more of a doosh than that.

[popsofctown]

simulposted

[popsofctown]

A little bit. But probably more parts confirmation bias.

[popsofctown]

Charter, the first paragraph of 476 is incomprehensible to me. No like "lol you're so wrong it doesn't make sense", but rather I can't figure out what you are saying. Restatement?


Sotty's interpretation of Sigma's early gambit seems diametrically opposed to mine, it makes sense enough to worry me... I put him at neutral, I think there's explanations for RVS gambits going both ways.

[popsofctown]

EBWOP: "not like...", not "no like...."

[popsofctown]

pops, what do you think of spyrex's vote?

Answering this before i read the rest of the thread. Bad form, I know.


Asking me what I think of spyrex's vote, to me, seems to be asking about its sincerity and its accuracy.

For its

sincerity

, the spyrex-town I remember from my last game is more than ready to get indignant over something like meta-reasoning and put his vote on top of it. So it doesn't seem out of place, in spite of the fact it's automatically suspect for OMGUS and whatnot. Iirc, Spyrex believes in zero meta. He doesn't want to hear it.

I do want to hear it, I believe meta is part of everything (i'm metaing spyrex right now), and as a result I think Spyrex is

inaccurate

with his vote, and he's putting it on Budja because Budja has different game theory beliefs than he does, not because he can actually see a dark force behind his posts.

(not rejecting Budja-scum, rejecting that reasoning. Haven't heard any cases besides Spyrex's as i recall)

[popsofctown]

bolds mines

This was in response to my first post, and already Pops has accused me of faking scumhunting. Please explain how that works.

It works when you post content your first post of the game, and that post is scummy.

And yeah, the things I pointed out there are probably insubstantial in the long run, but at that point, that was all I had to go on, so I point it out instead of just an empty post.

Thin and silky reasons are fine page one. Absolute thin air isn't allowed at any point in the game.

Please explain how I "want someone else to follow up" on my accusations, and how you determined that off of my first post.

As the scumCharter story goes, and you skepticism is already noted, i think you did it so that if any of those five people gained popularity you could claim founding fatherdom. And because I have never seen such broad and light FoS flinging be used as pro-town scumhunting

Other than a bunch of weak votes from you, I find nearly all of your posts to be reactionary to what other players are saying or doing.

I find myself to be rather proactive. Shall we agree to disagree or can you give me more to work with?

298, Pops is a third scum. If I was a daycop this game... His post comes back to OMGUS on me,

then accuse me of "sprinkler scumhunting" on page five or whatever

. Also claims to be suspicious of the Crypto/Confid pairing but does nothing about it.

The next clause of that sentence is you parroting what I said. Explain why I'm scummy. At the very least, explain how I'm wrong.

In response to this, this is wrong. I'm saying that you claimed to be suspicious of Crypto/Confid, but you didn't do anything with that initially. Just added support to that verbally but didn't actually commit until it was pretty clear Confid was going down, and then you took your vote off immediately afterwards.

I said "the next cluase of that sentence." I meant part of the same sentence, in context the same sentence in which i OMGUS was mentioned, which means the part I've underlined. (so, underlining mine) So this is miscommunication. The underlined part is parroting, because unless "using that dang sprinkler argument" is in the public consciousness as being a scumtell, you've got more analysis to do to explain how I'm scummy.

After a quick reflection, I think that the scummiest thing you've done is accusing me of faking my scumhunting after my first post, which I want you to describe how you arrived at a clearly wrong conclusion.

Here is your opening post:

VOTE SPYREX!

Traitorous scum!

Now that that is out of the way, I think pops is scum. I actually have like five likely scum candidates, which is kind of awesome. Others to include: imaginality, Energetic Penguin, and hitogoroshi.

unvote, vote Pops

Pops for his K7 tangent and his 'why aren't you opposed to Hoopla's avatar' comments.

imaginality for posting to say he isn't going to post.

Energetic Penguin for his FOS of Sigma and then vote for Hoopla.

hitogoroshi because I don't like his last two posts.

I don't think sigma is scum.

I italicized mere information. I colored the analysis bright red with blue polka dots. I am sooo not a fan of thread narrators, and that's why I jumped on you out of the gate.

I don't think a townie would have possibly thought that up. Next scummiest would be saying you're suspicious of Confid as he's going down, and then voting someone else who had no votes. Pretty clear you're scum.

Zero votes on Energetic Penguin isn't the way I recall it, but maybe so. Even so, public opinion against EP was polarizing so EP was a viable alternative to ConfidAnon, and i decided if I could kill one on the spot it would be EP so that's who I voted for.



@all - Can we not cuss ITT? If you'll indulge me.

[popsofctown]

IioA is one of the best tells ever. For serious.

[popsofctown]

I can't recall a game without it.

[popsofctown]

You forgot to color the part of my post where I call them "likely scum candidates" since I'm pretty sure that their posts weren't tagged with a "hey guys, I'm scum" stamp. That is me analyzing their posts. I also gave my analysis on sigma saying I don't think he's scum, since he was the top voteholder at the time, but hey, I guess that's just me keeping all my options open like you're saying.

Those are conclusions, but not analysis. One might infer that analysis was used to get to these conclusions, but none of that analysis is on the page. I don't want to see: "

X is scum

". I don't want to see "

X is scum. X made a post comparing my behavior to sprinklers.

" I want to see "

X is scum. X made a po

st

comparing my behavior to sprinklers. Th

is

is scummy because i think he's doing it just to slow the day's scumhunting down, w

hic

h is something scum want to do, and if you look here and here.....

"
Something like that is real scumhunting. Not what you posted. Most of your first post followed that second pattern.



[by the by, to keep semantics and the heart of the argument separate, I am not actually sure whether what's in Charter's post follows Webster's version of analysis, and will happily quit using the word "analysis" if Charter or anyone thinks I'm misusing it.]

[popsofctown]

I feel empowered by the mod.

Prod Energetic Penguin

[popsofctown]

Oh, actually he posted yesterday. the pace of this game is so confusing

unprod energetic penguin

[popsofctown]

You don't post pure gut feelings in thread. I thought everyone like, knew that. It does absolutely no good.

[popsofctown]

what made you know it was a foolish thing to say without knowing it was false?

Theory mistakes aren't scummy, but here that's really just a context in which you contradicted yourself, which is what's concerning.

[popsofctown]

580 agreed.

[popsofctown]

Vi. We don't talk about that game.



shutupihateyouihateyouihateyoueknitswasscumandwhytheflipwasthereagiantbandwagononthatobviouslytownalignedpooroldwomanraahhhgaaaah


Anyway, yeah, I like rofl 617. Remember how I already got onto him once for doing the same thing?


Pads, you seem to want to lynch an active over an inactive, that's never my philosophy. As long as the inactive is scummy (and EP is), then that's the better choice because that person is least likely to provice you with more information about his or her alignment

[popsofctown]

Vi. We don't talk about that game.

Then if you don't want a rerun of the result, you will wagon RedCoyote.

Thanks for the appeal to fear, but I already tried dealing with my psychological injury by killing Redcoyote all the time wherever he is, and he flipped town PR, and it made me feel very bad inside. I'll find you a link if you want, but no one else you know was there.

For some reason that actually seemed like a good strategy until he flipped and i felt horrible, but now I've rejected it. I'm going to try to read RedCoyote instead, and wagon him if he deserves it. As it stands, EP is by far the play.


TBH, if you mentioned nonny's name three more times in the thread I would actually probably PTSD and unvote , vote Redcoyote, repeatedly, in a loop, in six consecutive posts. You know what let's not talk about that game. At all.

@Sigma- policy lynching Vi, seriously? She posts. You know what he's up to. Don't think about lynching people for affecting the enjoyment of the game, because if that's a reason then Hoopla and her avatar are soooooooooooooooooooo dead. It has to be something hurting the town, and the negative effects of Vi's verbosity is acorns compared to a lurker supplying zero informmation about his/her alignment.

[popsofctown]

Everyone's blind trust of Roflcopter is finally starting to piss me off. I don't care how good he is or how consistent (i.e., lacking in substance) his meta is. Very annoying.

You forgot "I don't care that his avatar is an adorable bunny."

Because that's really the kicker for me. It's such a sincere looking bunny.

[popsofctown]

His latest backtrack of "I would not be surprised if there is only one scumteam" is just trying to cover his tracks, but now he's flip flopped again.

I was leaning towards crypto's innocence, but this is actually a really good point. Tossing off something like "there are two scum groups, genius" makes sense for an emotional townie, but to follow it up later with "I wouldn't be surprised if there's only one scumteam" seems really strange.
I like CSL better at this point, but crypto is looking more like a decent lynch.

His different languages post made me lol though.

That was exactly my reaction to it. Quit scaring me sigma.

I could see someone taking 2 scumteams as the flavor, but saying "There are two scumteams you idiot" as a declaration IMPLIES you would be surprised to be wrong, not "I wouldn't be surprised if there is one scumteam".

As for actually speculating on how many factions there are, I think the flavor is intentionally left ambiguous, but we know there is a crossfire theme. I think the mod is definitely reserving the right to have one mafia with (maybe with duplicates of roles like a united mob? That'd be cool) and have "crossfire" between that group and an SK. Or between that group and a dayvig (you know, like the daykiller already confirmed to be in the town? that's crossfire...)

But Sigma, you're wrong for picking out EP. Look at his posts. It's BAD.

I am new here and none of you have ever played with me yet you voted for someone who others here have played with.

Good point. Question: Why did you vote for ConfidAnon?

He voted for someone who just said they weren't gonna be around til sunday and didn't provide a reason for his vote. But know I think about
it I was being a bit hypocritical.

Anyway,

Vote: Hoopola

for blatant bandwagoning and a very yucky avatar.

You can look back at his post, he voted ConfidAnon with zero general justification, but later has reasons. Why did he have to be asked to give reasons for a vote? Since he's new (?) might be more of an open question than i think. But it gets worse.

Pops, awesome new avatar.

I currently find confianon scummy for the things already brought up and if Pops insists that hoopola will actually post content then I'm gonna,

Unvote, Vote: Confidanon

The famous one. He totally sheeps other people's reasons, doesn't even pretend to take ownership of the vote. Then he misinterprets my post to be an expectation of more content from hoopla rather than a declaration that an appreciable amount is there (that's an explanation, it's not scummy unless you're from the "scum skim the thread" school of thought).

@hitogoshi: I Haven't been paying as much attention as I should to this game and I have been inconsistent so I apologize.

Hiphop is active lurking. I can't decide if that's scummy enough to warrant a vote, though; it's possible that he's got a perfectly towny reason to lay low, though I don't know exactly what it could be.

This seems to me like scum fishing for a power role.

Picks out just one thing when he comes back from a long (postcount) break, but doesn't create a new case or do much of anything, though his former vote target is dead. EP, do you even know ConfidAnon is dead? He's dead you know.

There are two scum groups. (Stated as fact)

There are probably two scum groups. (Assumption).

I agree with Ek on this. he stated it as a fact, mafia could only be certain of this, so

Vote: Crypto

Sheepy opportunism. Ok, there's no unvote here, so EP does know what happened. I still don't like the amount of independent thought coming from EP.


@ EP- why didn't you revote Hoopla once ConfidAnon died? Why do you seem utterly uninterested in influencing anyone's vote?

[popsofctown]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) - SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 4 ) - Hoopla - Energetic Penguin - roflcopter charter
CSL ( 4 ) - RedCoyote - sigma - Pads - idiotking
elvis_knits ( 1 ) - Vi
Energetic Penguin ( 4 ) - hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 1 ) - idiotking
imaginality ( 1 ) - crypto
Infinis ( 1 ) - RayFrost
EtherealCookie ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 1 ) - Infinis
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 4 ) - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

So anyway guys, sometimes i post before i finish reading a page. It's funner that way.

But reading the rest of the page, I saw Crypto quote himself and Charter's paraphrasing seems way too strong. As it actually was, Crypto never waffled and there's nothing wrong with crypto as far as the last two pages go at least.

[popsofctown]

So anyway guys, sometimes i post before i finish reading a page. It's funner that way.

But reading the rest of the page, I saw Crypto quote himself and Charter's paraphrasing seems way too strong. As it actually was, Crypto never waffled and there's nothing wrong with crypto as far as the last two pages go at least.

I didn't paraphrase anything, I quoted his words. Crypto did backtrack.

His quote where he made everything large he said first, then later he said "Again, I would not be surprised if there is only one scum team" after he was called on his claimed fact.

Ugh. That creates so much back and forth that I have to actually go back to pages i've already read to see for sure...

Yeah, he does say it. Kind of backpedalish, and reminiscent of the bizarre "is IIoA a good tell" discussion. But reading it in context it's not as bad. as when you quoted it.

Hey, i'll post this now, bet by the time I've read up someone will have said something and i won't be a double poster.

[popsofctown]

@ Everyone who is making excuses to cover crypto: why are you making excuses?

Hi, my name is unnecessarily loaded question, how are you doing today?

LOOK, can we all just come together, hold hands and lynch Budja. Its the right choice, and we all know it deep in our hearts.

Why does Spyro make me laugh so? Why?

You know we could all just do the mod a fav and go ahead and lynch Budja.

Just saying.

I mean after all that hard work not keeping up, wagoning, defending said wagon under not one but multiple spurious (and mimicked) reasons.

We should just give that spot a rest. A permanent one.

lol!


Might want to consider doing that for CSL. Replacing out in his fashion is very much against the spirit of mafia, and so is lynching him, but, what can you do? If that's his pattern (there was too many posts to go through in that newbie Vi, did he replace out?) then that's probably how we have to vote.

I'm saying it mournfully because mafia isn't supposed to be about voting people for that reason, not because CSL wasn't formerly high on my list. He was right under EP (i had the mental list going and i kept on waiting for someone to ask about it but no one did )

[popsofctown]

Pops, if someone does something scummy, you lynch them for it. It doesn't matter

what

it is. That's how it works.

This is a twenty-five-player game. We'll have more than enough chances for more orthodox lynches.

Oh, reading this reminded me that I didn't

unvote, vote: CSL

. Sorry about that.

[popsofctown]

@IK: because the act of replacing + other stuff he's done has put him past the threshhold for lynchery. It's exceedingly rare for someone to actually do something that makes their slot less scummy. The way mafia works, everyone starts at zero and starts dipping into negative numbers. Maybe if you play awesome, the whole game, craziness, you get up to 1 or 2. But mostly people just get more and more scummy, that's just how it works.

Another way to put it, here's an analogy. A five year old who isn't old enough to make eye contact and lie and a 10-year career con man break a vase together. You walk in and see the vase in pieces. You ask the five year old who broke the vase and he is decidedly unconvincing when he tells you "we didn't play catch with the vase because that would be wrong!" Should I ask the con man who broke the vase? Should I even adjust my opinion after listening to someone who is comparatively superior in deception?

In the same way, it's pointless to listen to the replacement. In all likelihood he'll be a better player who seems more pro-town, but CSL supplied information about his role more accurately, just like the five year old supplies information about the vase more accurately.

Actually, I could say it's like checking the time on a sundial after you've seen it on a Rolex.

Or like asking a family doc for a second opinion on what your cardiologist said about your heart.

Note to self: don't try to do analogies or expect to stop, ever.

[popsofctown]

Where is Psychologic? I can't wait for his first post!! I am eagerly awaiting his arrival.

[popsofctown]

EM?

[popsofctown]

I heard there's a magical place on the internet where people play mafia games and there are no needs for replacement, ever. It's a magical land of mystery and wonder. You know where it is? Me neither.

[popsofctown]

How do you know this crypto? Did you spectate one?

[popsofctown]

My subtlety goes to waste? Oh well.

[popsofctown]

my post is directed at 769 btw

[popsofctown]

Hoopla's avatar is very unpleasant to look at.

[popsofctown]

I'm trying to think of something CSL could claim where i still wouldn't lynch him.

[popsofctown]

WIFOM much? Besides Vi, we know you would get WAY too bored doing that. We know you.

[popsofctown]

I think the reaction to the speed of the CSL wagon is nothing short of ridiculous.


Hey guys, maybe, it's not that complicated... maybe, people who are more scummy are more likely to get voted. And CSL is really, really scummy so TONS of people voted him.


I saw no reaction of the kind to ConfidAnon's wagon, which had only slightly slower speed and much weaker reasons.

[popsofctown]

Wait, doesn't hasgdfas go to michigan state university?

[popsofctown]

Imma make my meatworld friends play mafia.

Can't make my roommate do it. He's a total jock. Such a loser.
I wonder how much offtopic space i get before spyrex mislynches me for fluff again.

[popsofctown]

Female avatar + male identity = popsfusion and tisorder.



it's a nice picture though.

[popsofctown]

more info on what?

[popsofctown]

I think the guy reading unbolded text (as far as i can tell) in our 8-page-a-day game is a

REAL

mod.
And zoraster's avatar is awesome. Good avatars make me so happy.

[popsofctown]

Dude, who cares if it's twilight. I like, live here. I spent more time in this thread than i did in my room today.

Spyrex pass me a beer.

[popsofctown]

aw, i wanted to see it.

[popsofctown]

vote scotty

imag doesn't have her name mentioned in iso 2, but he comes back later and starts calling her town, and saying that she is making really good points in iso 4,5, and 6. The only problem with this case is sotty doesn't mention imag. I'll let sotty tell us why.

What the crap?!? Weak case is weak. Is that really it, in

this

town, scumville.largegame, you pick Sotty and for those reasons? Or does keeping off scumpartners limit your options? Sotty's play seems swell to me atm. If she's not scumhunting she fakes well.

Vote: Mae

back where it was before the CSL incident.

..

Voting Idiotking is still like claiming scum.

Don't like this, is sort of like "I'm calling it out first so I have liscense to lynch you if you vote this [scummy] player". And I see this post as not fitting in with Vi's behavior towards CSL yesterday. Speaking of, it's horrible. I thought he was probably scum, was upset when he flipped, but know I probably would have not been able to read him much further anyway. That's how you're supposed to feel. Vi seems to say he lynched him even though she had a town read on him, and that he'd do it again. That's not really how you're supposed to feel.

Not "TOWN" points but definitely "NOT SCUM WTIH IMAGIN" points:

This. Right now I think Vi is really scummy, for the elvis unvote and generally trying to end the day all day 1 and voting like a crazy man, but she seems like she voted too much to stick to scum, ties herself to seemingly no one, and doesn't pair well with Imaginality (but does with elvis.) Kinda feel like if he's anything, it's SK, so it's not too bad to leave her alive and let her shoot scum. [want to check the mafia theory there with the rest of the town.]

..anyone who thinks the mafia would actually kill crypto is out of their mind. .. none of those examples are of people as scummy as crypto.

I went from confused about Crypto to deciding he was town. I don't see how he was scumming. I think he was the most town of the dead players.

Just so I have a point: maybe you should wonder if you're off your game in this thread, Charter.

Rofl 1036 (hyperlink guy, teach me hyper links): You've established a double chainsaw relationship between Maemuki and E-k. That was a Tar tell, i recall. The big Tar tell. A massive one.

FoS: Maemuki

I won't lynch someone on this alone, though Tar would, but once I understand even a little more of the case on her it think it looks like a good place to vote.

Hito keeps posting and I keep not reading anything of it.

Re: my absence. Sorry, I was working on a screenplay that was due last night. Actually not that long a screenplay, just a short, but i kept on doing little things to put it off like watching one more tv show or playing a flash game. But posting in a game (which takes me like 2 hours for this thread or something crazy) was too much time dumping all at once, so i didn't do it.
I know, it's weird/bad, I just admitted to putting flash games before my mafia games. But it's a larger block of time, that's how it felt in my mind. If it makes you feel any better, other activities that felt like too much time dumping for me to do on good conscience were sleeping and laundry. And dinner, skipped that one night. I didn't sleep saturday night, got about 7 hours sunday night and 4 last night. Any funny typos? I hope.

I'm gonna take an hour long nap and get up for class at 1:30.

[popsofctown]

yay, welcome fhqwhgads

[popsofctown]

so's i go to sociology class, and my professor spouts some massively pro-reform stuff about healthcare whilst saying "I don't want to influence your opinion, I want you to see both sides", and then I come back and dang. Maemuki has a lot of votes.

@ maemuki: and I guess I get the last word here: I'm not voting Vi because of her SK like behavior. If she's not bulletproof, like lots of SKs, she's just a vig that's not aligned with the town. She's still scummy, I'm not claiming rolecop here, but it ranks her below someone who's just plain scummy. And her refusal to vote crypto is something i didn't notice and came up and wins her points.

As for upgrading my FoS, I don't even have to fully understand the Maemuki case to do it. Although she had a very strong and bad connection with e_k, i FoSed because I didn't want to vote someone based on interaction alone because it's Wineish. Sometimes scum bus and sometimes they don't. Maybe here it was more cut and dry then i give it credit, but i wanted at least something else.

But I have enough now, without even going back to figure out what people's cases were, because that defeatist crap and poor analysis on the last two pages was bad.

Vote to slam a hammer on the stopwatch: Maemuki

.

But anyway, i do happen to realize now that much of the case was Maemuki's acute concern for other people's perception of her alignment (similar to her concern about people's perception of e_k's alignment). That's scummy, that's legit. Yeah, I go down in the record books as someone who changed his mind, I though she was scumhunting earlier in this game, but that was a reaaal bad two pages. She goes out in a flame.

[popsofctown]

ITT, maemuki explains how the only pro-town thing available to a player is defending oneself.

Hey, Spyrex, identify a player who sees your points in your Budja case. Like, is it just you and your own echo or am I missing a few devout followers?

[popsofctown]

If you really think RC is scum, actually build a case and influence as many people as you can to believe he is scum.

Same for Infinis.

You totally ignored the entire point of my post. The best thing a dying townie can do is finger scums and explain why. Does it save your life? No, and we're lynching you because the past 46 pages you've been trying to save your supposedly vanilla life.

But it gets you to your wincon

AtE doesn't.

[popsofctown]

Oh gosh, Infinis is horrible.

Mae should go first, though, she's vanilla if she's not scum.

@vi: AtE doesn't bother me, maybe because i was mislynched for AtE. AtE-ioA is bad.

[popsofctown]

Vote: Maemuki

I have a Mason reading between him/her and Elvis_Knits.

How can call this steady flow of deep analysis lurking, RayFrost?

I don't understand.



ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it's still the interweb, so i have to add on the [/sarcasm]

[popsofctown]

I don't know if mae is a

newbie

or not. Scum or not, she deserves respect.

[popsofctown]

I ought to be fair.

Vi, quit using that n00b word too. It's not nice. "Noob" is already borderline, making zeros out of the letters is bad enough. You were new once too. So the urban legend goes.

[popsofctown]

I think Vi is scummier than infinis.

More please?

[popsofctown]

@1239 & 1240. What?


@charter wagon: Infinis wagon makes more sense. His first post was pretty bad, I concur with that, but he's not independently scummy like Infinis. Pure connections isn't enough for me, nor is a case that is so largely based off connections.

Vote: Infinis

Can someone tell me why hiphop is so horrible? It still seems like "because he said so".

[popsofctown]

Why in the ass would you out yourself with a smattering of nothing on you at this point?

Wait, charter is trying to suicide? I assumed he meant something else or was referring to some obscure post or SOMETHING. He's at L-some large number.

If the unvote over from scum to town is really something I needed to look at Charter, well, thanks for the help. I guess if we get a scum giving up for every two townies that have given up we can get a fair game.

Rofl is voting some other player, I'm assuming moving the vote from a vigged player in advance? I just don't play mafia that way, just seems wrong.

unvote, vote Charter

[popsofctown]

Fine. I have confidence the crypto situation will resolve itself.

unvote, vote CSL

That's probably a big enough hint.

He quoted himself wagonning town and then said "that's probably a big enough hint". I thought thwas a little weird but probably had some other explanation.

Than spyrex asked why charter was outing himself and charter said the vig was going to shoot soon and he wanted to "minimize damage" so i guess that was his intention.

[popsofctown]

LOLOLOL

I'm a retard.

unvote Charter

He quoted the post because he killed Crypto that night. The situation resolved itself. Because he NKed crypto because he's vig.

vote: infinis

i apologize for the misreadery.

[popsofctown]

...
and charter is the better lynch because infinis was setup by too many people yesterday to be killed today, and i prefer to do things the difficult way.
...

I have to take back all (well, maybe just half) of the profanity I've spewed at the monitor reading your tunnel vision attacking play style.

So what about my last post of Day 2? Who was I attacking? I didn't get to finish the discussion because Vi shut it down. Vi obviously thought I was attacking her, which in a sense I was but only in making a case against someone else. Someone who either was either a) playing the White Knight defending a damsel in distress or b) Scum trying to gain townie points by looking like part a)

Do you now see why I pointed out all those Vi posts? Vi is a woman, clearly. So why didn't

pops

jump in and say "hey Vi, pads deserves your respect or any of the other people Vi smeared?" And who was the hammer on Mae? And who knew he and his scum buddies would have more than enough ammunition on me today for Mae's mislynch, thereby creating a second mislynch?

Vote: Pops

because i say so. that's enough, isn't it?

Not for me, charter's always been a little durp durp with his focus and Vi flipping town definitely hurts him, but why does that make him a better lynch/daykill then infinis? Especially since tow of infinis "scum" flipped town last night. I know we get two lynches so this is sort of a moot point, but bleh.

My early case on sigma, really? That's your justification, well looks like we have gullible town or

scum

.

So..... your case on me is that I play hall monitor inconsistently, I'm scum?

If there's no reason for the sudden RC wagon besides interpreting his last post as rolefishing, I'm perturbed at all of you. There's better cases here. It's not black and white out and out rolefishing, and who charter killed is the first thing I wanted to know too because it seems that makes it easy to scumhunt. (mafia theorists greater than me are welcome to inform me it's not proper to reveal the kill, but I'm saying i empathize)


@what-if-charter-is-sk: well the he's a dead one soon. If he last any longer than an outed vig should last, we lynch him. I don't think accepting his claim does any damage right now.

[popsofctown]

Day 3: Attack of the red herrings.

Can't we just do it the old way guys?

I'll even lynch Budja now if the reasoning doesn't start with a conspiracy theory. I think this stuff is just getting silly.

[popsofctown]

lol at 1285

[popsofctown]

I'm so confused.

Have I made any good reads this game?

[popsofctown]

it was decent analysis. I don't see anything particularly wrong with pads. Hunt scum.

[/hypocrite]

not sure where the scum is right now.

@rofl: i think you're doing weird = scummy. I don't see how spyrex's pet projects are really connected to the scum win-con unless we see bad flips. On average, he's kept off about as many town lynches as scum lynches by my recollection, and we don't know that his pet projects are on towny. Scum generally hop wagons and push town lynches to the limit. I don't see how spyrex's actions are scummy.

[popsofctown]

@rofl: i think you're doing weird = scummy. I don't see how spyrex's pet projects are really connected to the scum win-con unless we see bad flips. On average, he's kept off about as many town lynches as scum lynches by my recollection, and we don't know that his pet projects are on towny. Scum generally hop wagons and push town lynches to the limit. I don't see how spyrex's actions are scummy.

There is one little tiny problem with his "pet" projects. It keeps the scum list open, instead of narrowing the list down. It is ok to search day one and day 2, but by day three we should start taking townies out of the equation.

On the flipside Mam is solid, sigma (sans start) is feelin town..

RedCoyote's logic in 333 is solid (although I'd disagree with crypto and sigma as scum (and due to the post-count a little less weary of hiphop) and budja as town).

EP is going to be a VI. Calling this now. Emphasis on the V.

I just reread Infinis. AGAIN, while I'm not agreeing with his reads I think the IIoA call is a bit out of point in this - I think he's p town.

Welp pops is town.

Smile

[popsofctown]

I don't think Pads is playing well, but I think he's playing and I don't really want his blood. Hiphop is less than stellar for sure. Hitogoroshi is pretty shady. I never liked how day 1 he said "my vote is like a giant axe of iron that i shall rarely use lest it go dull", then he uses it to get on a policy lynch he could have gotten on much earlier. That doesn't really make sense.

And then he's not taking firm positions today, as Pads indicated. But Pads' case on Spyrex is more full of bantha pudu.

Idiotking doesn't get all the way to lynch threshhold without connections, I can understand much of what people consider his scummy actions if I follow his line of thought (like the CSL lynch thing. Anyway, he was afraid to lynch a townie and he's scum? Come on people). And I'm not sure I see the connections as working the way everyone else does. Everyone keeps heralding the e_k lynch as proving the power of connections but the truth is we have not seen many connections that strong this game. (maemuki-e_k really did seem that strong tbh, but it didn't pan out.)

[popsofctown]

I'd like it if both Zak and fhq posted.

[popsofctown]

Thanks for contributing to the discussion Xyl.

Not. Can you please contribute to the discussion so I can even begin to read you?

[popsofctown]

You post almost exclusively one liners. So I can't read you as well as other players, and doing something that keeps me from reading you is anti-town, whether or not it's "my fault" that I can't get reads from someone with your posting style.

[popsofctown]

If you can't read me listen to one of the many people who can please

Because they are saying "town" mirite?

[popsofctown]

Going on todays posts, my reads are all over the place. One moment I think the Hito-scum is possible, the next I'm not so sure.

Should be done reading either today or tomorrow, but it seems all who I think was obv. scum have already been removed by some means.

Also, how the hell am I/EP still in this game? Seriously, that guy sucked.

fhq: Imaginality voted you and tried to wagon you, and he's confirmed scum. Based off Imag's playstyle he seems unlikely to do that as an early bus, so you are probtown.

You still have to get in here and post though.

[popsofctown]

I thought you're response was fine *shrug*

Don't AtE. That's just not going to end well.

[popsofctown]

That's a strawman. I wish i could say it was a huge one, but I can't actually.

[popsofctown]

Vote Count, Day 3

hiphop ( 2 ) - Sotty7 - RayFrost
shotty to the body ( 0 )
fhqwhgads ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 1 ) - Pads
Idiotking ( 4 ) - roflcopter - RedCoyote - SpyreX - Shotty to the Body
Xylthixlm ( 0 )
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Zakeri ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 7 ) - fhqwhgads - hitogoroshi - idiotking - zakeri - popsofctown - Xylthixlm - hiphop
Total Votes ( 14 )

With 14 alive, 8 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 12th, 4pm EST

ugh, i like 1348.

Maybe i should just proxy my vote to Spyrex and go take a nap.

[popsofctown]

idiotking is not only connected to elvis. imaginality constantly made mid grade attacks against imag, but left his vote on e-penguin the entire day instead of ever backing them up. thats much more damning than anything having to do with e_k.

If that was mentioned, i missed it.

That's a good reason.

[popsofctown]

At least he's going down somewhat more gracefully than maemuki.

Rayfrost is pretty ridiculously under the radar. "I'm lurking to get into the mindset of lurkers", which is pretty bad reasoning.

Ray, is idiotking scum? Why or why not?

[popsofctown]

Yes, Spyrex, you did. Quit sleeping.

I don't see why the town is yanking on thready connections instead of using independently scummy material like that.

[popsofctown]

there's a deadline?

[popsofctown]

Personally I don't see it as a scumtell, having played with you before. That's why I didn't bring it up earlier. When it gets to the point that you're calling me out for voting you, then I am going to defend why it is you are worthy of a lynch.

So you're going to fight to make your case justified even if you must use things you don't personally believe are scumtells to justify your case to the rest of the town? That borders dangerously on lying, and earns you the finger. Not that finger, an FoS. No, not bolding it, I'm sick of bolded FoS's, they aren't a tier above text and shouldn't be bolded[/outlook on mafia].

Rayfrost's last post sucks. Between his poor play before, refusing to defend himself now, and Xythilim's logic (the scum must be lurking because no one seems scummy), I think I don't want a replacement.

Vote: Rayfrost

Never join another game again

I feel like that might be harsh. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from playing due to skill level or quality of play as long as they are capable of following the rules and keeping their commitments. Rayfrost's activity is high enough that zoraster doesn't have to force-replace him, so I think he's fulfilling his commitment here. [/hall monitor]

[popsofctown]

About time we looked at Rayfrost.

Unvote, Vote Rayfrost

''Please, sir,'' replied Oliver, ''I want some more.''

[popsofctown]

Short on time, so no wall of text today.


@Everyone

CSL was lynched very quickly. Maemuki was lynched very quickly. The scum were not shy about jumping on.

Hito's and IK's wagons have stalled.

A RayFrost wagon started on a whim and was very quick to gain energy.

The only scum wagon we've had move quickly at all was obvscum Elvis_Knits, and even she only had 1/4 of the game voting for her when she was vigged (or whatever).

I doubt the veterans of mafia need me to tell them that what we are likely looking at a scum engineered distraction in the RayFrost wagon, and it lends credit to the idea that both Hito and IK are scum.

Note that IK didn't have anything to say about RayFrost today until Shotty brought it up, and now he's digging in to a RayFrost wagon as hard as he can. Classic redirecting, no? Note that Hito joined, as well.

RayFrost's early play was far from spotless, but behavorially he's looking more like lazy, detatched town than lurking scum. Even if you don't agree with that read, there's nothing to justify his wagon over the others that are available to us at the moment. He's simply not the best wagon today, especially since he seems to have a PR to claim.

Policy lynching will be up for consideration tomorrow, but today we still have a good chance of getting scum with normal lynching standards.

*I owe a couple people answers to questions. I'll get them next time.

That's not the best logic. Broken down to its simplest components it's "scum never bus" and that's simply not true.

CSL and Maemuki both imploded under pressure. That really greased the guillotine. That might have more to do with the lynching speed than anything else.

[popsofctown]

I'm not sure I've seen quizzing in a mafia game before.

[popsofctown]

it kind of felt like that to me. Although i usually am not big on buddying

[popsofctown]

Sometimes I usually don't always understand what pads is occasionally talking about, most of the time.

Quit screeching for Spyrex's blood Pads.

[popsofctown]

Imaginary mechanic sounds imaginary?

[popsofctown]

Ray. I don't buy the claim. You didn't have any dealings any of the kills. You didn't ever say you suspected them.

And if Ray is not the dayvig (I don't think he is), the real one shouldn't claim.

Unvote

But there is an easy fix for this. We let the real dayvig vig Ray tomorrow. If Ray survives the night (he most likely won't if he's telling the truth) then he's dead tomorrow.

That sounds like that works

unvote

[popsofctown]

I've got temp kill immunity cuz I killed within the first 800 posts of the previous three days or so.

Did you guys miss this?

Sorry Ray, by temporary I figured you meant "for the rest of the day", since there is another daykiller.

So you're breathing body tomorrow morning isn't proof of anything.

An inability to shoot on our orders is. Everyone in favor of democratizing Ray's shot?

[popsofctown]

An SK you can order around is a vig though.

[popsofctown]

Lol at number 2.
I believe his claim, and I say we leave him alive. He's safe for one more night for sure. There's no way scums would get daykills on top of a player that can scream "shoot me" as safely as he seems to be able to.

At the worst, I think we have to lynch him a little bit early in case he has one partner (like somesort of pair of well equipped scums, praps)

Though I have to say, I don't really like that the game is developing a kingmaker element, that's not the reason i play mafia..

[popsofctown]

my guess for the other deaths is another SK like Rayfrost. And then the scum faction probably has slightly fewer members than normal, and the crossfire balances it out so that the town has a chance to win. [/setup speculation]

[popsofctown]

We know that's what you claim, Rayfrost, but supposing we suspect you're still playing to win, you could be hiding a partner that makes LyLo happen a day sooner than what we calculate, Ray.

[popsofctown]

Hmm, that may be the case Xyl. Maybe.

Lets look at this though with the premise that RF is being truthful:

Day 1: ConfidAnon the Vanilla Townie was killed - RF
Night 1: imaginality the Mafia Roleblocker was killed - Zorro
Night 1: crypto the Vanilla Townie was killed - Charter
Night 1: Hoopla the Vanilla Townie was killed - Scum
Day 2: elvis_knits the Mafia Mason was killed - RF
Night 2: Sigma the Vanilla Townie was killed - Scum or Zorro, roleblock whatevs for other
Night 2: Vi the Vanilla Townie was killed - Charter
Day 3: Infinis the Vanilla Townie was killed - RF
Day 3: charter the Mafia Roleblocker and ex-Traitor Vigilante was killed - Zorro

I think Zorro could be a vig that just didn't buy it that there was another Vig as well.

[popsofctown]

We are in agreement Ray, we kill you about a day ahead of time.

[popsofctown]

Lol! SAVE RAYFROST!!!

Seriously. Using his shots is very sound on paper.

I like shotty particularly off your list Spyrex.

vote: Shotty

My inquiry earlier didn't get much.

[popsofctown]

I still think Imaginality's willingness to wagon EP suggests fhq isn't scum.

[popsofctown]

Sure, as long as you explain how they are connected and whatnot.

[popsofctown]

xythlim, towns only hit scum at some incremental amount among random chances. It's like 5 % or something.

A rushed 24 hour decision, even if it deprives us of almost all that improvement (it won't), is worse keeping a shooter alive.

[popsofctown]

? more whats?

[popsofctown]

worth, yeha, i meant worth

[popsofctown]

Xylithm, you would trade in 2 daykills for a few weeks deadline extension? Because that's all the reversal of tomorrow's lynch and today's is. A few weeks deliberation versus two daykills. Yes, we have to kill him eventually. But making a snap decision on who to lynch here gives us two daykills.

[popsofctown]

I think we disagree about the value of discussion and the value of daykills.

[popsofctown]

That is the only two issues. I propose lynching him two days from now, you propose lynching him today. A few weeks discussion on the other two lynches versus 2 daykills IS the only difference.

And Rayfrost is letting us direct the kills, their ours. He's an altruistic SK. The likelihood of him being daykilling scum is close to zero.

Quit sticking to "rules of thumb". Analyze the pros and cons of this decision and tell me it's right to lynch him without appealing to some rule of thumb that has some stronger rationale hiding behind it. The very phrase rule of thumb implies there's exceptions, this is one of them.

[popsofctown]

ah, i see the nightkill info.

Still don't value that as much as daykills though. Nightkills don't come signed and information derived from them have to be hard fought through WIFOM. Usually the scum just kill a really really protown player anyway.

@IdiotKing: If he's scum, the real SK is going to shoot him tonight. So if he's scum, he's retarded, and lynching someone other than him is actually going to give us two lynches, after a different fashion.

[popsofctown]

Nobody said that he'd have to be a daykilling scum. For all we know he could just be holding out to live one more night to make one last nightkill.

As it is, if he really IS the SK, I'm leaning toward killing him. Just because he says that he's rooting for the town doesn't mean that he really is.

I've been SK before. I totally rooted for the town. I was shooting for scum because I wasn't bulletproof, Rayfrost is also claiming not to be totally bulletproof. It's natural to empathize with the town, everyone who reads games says they empathize with the town.

It'd be bizarre and indicative of a sadistic pathology if rayfrost empathized with the scum by default.

And if he didn't do the daykill, someone will claim the daykill before we lynch him, or just daykill him for lying tomorrow. It's pretty difficult to take credit for a kill you didn't do.

If he did do the daykill, it's unlikely he's scum, since the daykiller shot elvis and daykilling scum is rare.

Leaving rayfrost alive is atypical play, and it's not textbook play, but sometimes it's time to drop lynch-all-liars, lynch-all-lurkers, lynch-all-selfvoters, and follow-the-cop formulaic play and do something unusual.

[popsofctown]

Prod Zakeri

[popsofctown]

Come on guys.



Pet SK.




This is happening.

[popsofctown]

that's usually frowned upon. everywhere i've read at least.

[popsofctown]

If he's not SK, he's unlikely to have any sort of nightkill immunity and is gonna get shot to death and lose a member off his team.

And it's unlikely.

[popsofctown]

Yes. It is.

[popsofctown]

of those two i'd pick hiphop.

Xythilim changed his mind on hiphop for some reason, we could flip hiphop over and figure out why. That'd be information.

[popsofctown]

Quit cowering away from counterintuitive play.

[popsofctown]

I didn't say it was unpopular, i said it was counterintuitive. Intuition is "kill the evil people".

You're appealing to it when you say things like "just lynch the claimed SK"

[popsofctown]

I did fail to notice a cost, true.

That cost still doesn't override 2 daykills though. 2 daykills is 2 daykills.

[popsofctown]

Shotty, you've just been weak and sheepy for the latter part of today. Voting you makes you talk. See?

Hito, your IK/RF is a ridiculous pipe dream. IK would get just as much townie cred, hypathetically, if RF didn't claim SK and flipped scum. (there's any number of ways he could have exploded if he wanted to be lynched). There's not really a motivation for RayFrost to claim SK as scum here. If he wanted to last one more night, he'd claim some power role, not something that has a 80% chance to get him lynched anyway.

Not being able to find someone else to lynch is a more legitimate problem, but you have 24 hours. You can read some isos.

[popsofctown]

We can always policy lynch Zakeri.

[popsofctown]

post 1577 is content.

Spyrex's pet list makes me curious, as almost none of his pets seem to die.

[popsofctown]

You can't wait 1 day to find out? Even one? I don't see any reason to doubt his claim either. I mean, when someone claims Cop with 2 day kills, you should be suspicious, but when someone gets absolutely as close as you can get to claiming scum, why doubt their claim?



*wants to play another game with Spyrex*



Let's just policy lynch Zakeri. He hardly posts ever.

[popsofctown]

Vote Count, Day 3

hiphop ( 1 ) - Sotty7
shotty to the body ( 2 ) - popsofctown - SpyreX
fhqwhgads ( 1 ) - RayFrost
hitogoroshi ( 1 ) - Pads
Idiotking ( 0 )
Xylthixlm ( 0 )
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Zakeri ( 0 )

RayFrost ( 6 ) - Xylthixlm - roflcopter - Shotty to the Body - RedCoyote - idiotking - fhqwhgads

RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 3 ) - zakeri - hiphop - hitogoroshi
Total Votes ( 14 )

With 14 alive, 8 needed to reach a majority.
Majority reached. Plurality will be lynched at 3:45pm EST Friday, December 4th

fshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I guess you're lynching RayFrost. I think most of you are making subtle mathematical errors when you calculate the pros and cons (Not xyl, i think he has them right but just feels really dependent on nightkill and discussion info for some reason) of leaving someone from a different faction alive long enough to kill people from different factions. Thoughts like "lynch the claimed scum" show a lack of attention to the details of what really happens in a mafia game and make me suspect some of you refused to think critically about the decision.

we are lynching rayfrost, and i would ask everyone not voting for him to stop being stupid. the daykills were fun while they lasted, but its time to get real.

I disagree with the merits of the lynch, and non-Ray lynch wasn't something I pushed [only] out of a sense of fun, it was in a desire to win.

If you think it stupid in the more serious sense, well, it's a terminal condition so don't bother asking for change.

[popsofctown]

ouch, rofl got shot. The insane/sane dynamic zoraster did is interesting, there is no "bad" outcome, both are equally informative and only need be confirmed. It's a pretty good bet he had enough time to figure out what he was though, so y'all should go back through his posts.


I say "y'all" because [I'm southern and]

I'm going LA for a bit, exam week

. Sorry, I know we only get 12 days, but I will be back in time for the latter days, I promise.

[popsofctown]

sew guise, it turns out all the exams i intend to study for fell on tuesday. All of them. Crazy day. I'm done now though, reading the thread.

[popsofctown]

I get the feeling that we lynched our "vig" yesterday.

I hate you all. Why in the SAM hill couldn't we have policy lynched zak yesterday. "people we will have to lynch eventually". People like zak. GEEEEZZZ.

At least we can agree on that if Zak gets lynched versus shot anyone claiming vig dies? Deal? Deal.

Also not voting for Zak is deserving of capital punishment. BUS AWAY YOUNG BUCKS.

I <3 Spyrex.

Not actually going to vote Zak here. More discussion is good, and if we have a vig I don't want him to have to be all "oh shnap, i gotta shoot now, even though i just got here ten seconds ago making it obvious to scum i'm the dayvig." And all.

Charter's death is becoming like a "who shot JFK" thing. None of the theories work right. If it was a vig, how'd he know he's the only vig. If it was an SK, he's bulletproof so why does he care. If it was mafia, then when the role pms are revealed at the end of the game, this forum thread will wrench itself from the very fabric of the New York thread and walk like an Ent to the theme game thread, and forces of nature will tear through the thread correcting all our posts to conform to proper post restrictions, and then the Jinjonator will rise from the earth and knock Zoraster off his broomstick for what he hath wrough.

Pads' interpretation of the nightkills seems like it has an agenda to it. He went through the same posts everyone else did and used the same agenda for a one-sided interpretation. Rofl didn't case build on Elvis (except this reason is extremely flawed because he did, he connected Elvis to Infinis) just like he didn't case build on RC. His reasons for voting RC were nonexistent, as were his reasons for unvoting. The same idiosyncracies were there. He also strawmans his opposition by saying their argument is based on rofl's certainty, when rofl is almost always certain, but I don't see anyone here saying that, it was actually argued, well, based on the idiosyncracies of his behavior.

Hiphop gets points for getting a good interpretation of rofl out first, but it'd be unfair to give him too many.

I'd call RC <qualifier> conf-town.

Every time i hear shotty talk lately, i'm feeling a bit better about him.

[popsofctown]

hand hug?

[popsofctown]

I think handshakes and hugs are one of those things that should stay separate.

[popsofctown]

Probably off plotting murder.

[popsofctown]

me?

[popsofctown]

Why is it needless to say? Because of that confirmation bias you've been talking about?

[popsofctown]

I haven't caught Shotty hand hugging with Zakeri. Only suggesting that someone who hadn't posted yet in a thread might be reading, which seems pretty plausible to me.

Is there a reason you associate Zak with Pads or is it just "Dog + Shoes = LYNCH PADS LYNCH PADS"

[popsofctown]

but no actually connection between zak and pads.

[popsofctown]

oooooh. now i get it

[popsofctown]

deadline is ten days off.

If there's a vig that needs any time, he can have it.

[popsofctown]

Ok, now i will hand hug you.

*handhug*

[popsofctown]

Well if nothing else, I want a few days to pass in case we have a majority-limited vig or something. For our vig test on Zakeri to be effective we HAVE to give the vig a few non-majority days to carry out the kill. If we have a few days pass with no vig kill and no defense from Zak (to be fair it would need to be one hell of a defense, but hey, we'll see just how hard Zak can be on us) then I'll be all over a Zak wagon. For now I'm assuming he does get vigged and getting pre-season tickets to IKwagon2009.

I feel like I should be doing something, but mostly I just want Zakeri to

contribute or

die.

Fixed that up for you.

The series of events that would have to occur for Zak not to get lynched today are so ridiculous I'm not even gonna bank on it.

Um, what? I thought this is the policy lynching of a neutral read lurker, not a slam dunk case. If being attacked causes him to rise in activity level enough for me to read him, and that read isn't scum, then he stays alive. I don't like the way you two are digging your feet in the ground so hard.

[popsofctown]

On pads part one: the popular term of "waffling" is different from what i think you think it means. It means changing one's mind of someone's alignment without any clear reason for a reversal of opinion, that might be fueled by a scum motivation, like changing a town read to scum if it looks like a juicy mislynch, or changing a scum read to town if that player is scum and you'd rather swap out the credit for actually saving your partner.

Point taken on hiphop arguing for certainty, I didn't see that.

@Xyl: devil's advocate here, rofl could have investigated elvis, gotten a guilty, and then very much wanted her six feet under so he could get a true investigation the next night. Zoraster's version of the cop role has a pretty strong lyncher mechanic to it.

I'm playing devil's advocate because i'm not 100% sure, it IS roflcopter. But I still have my money on RC investigation because there was NO case on redcoyote, and there was a case on e_k.

And I still don't see how he became certain of his interpretation without a vested interest in RC dying or fhq living.

[popsofctown]

It's a pro-town action, but obviously so. I always give those actions points for being essentially pro-town, but few because it's WIFOM (they could do it just to look pro-town). Utimately, on the whole, 51% of the time stuff like that comes from townies, so it counts for something, but not much.

It's not a scumtell for me to see an action as being somewhere between slamdunk scum and obvtown.

[popsofctown]

Why do you want to lynch red sotty? I don't remember you talking about an interest before.

[popsofctown]

yeah, charter's breadcrumbs were loltastic piece of 20/20 hindsight. Maybe that's it then, he died because someone saw the breadcrumbs. So, vig?

I'd give scumSpyrex more credit than to jump around excitedly in public when he finds breadcrumbs only he is looking for. I do lean pretty strongly towards Spyrex town right now, but that's no reason for me to accept reasoning that is shoddy, Sotty. Shotty to the body is someone else you mentioned, similar gutsy reasons to RC i presume?


Although I am a fan of 1760 analysis. I'm always up for Freudian slipsy stuff. I SWEAR I caught scum on the second page of my first game because I caught him projecting his emotions onto another person.


There's almost no reason to doubt Charter's reports on his vig kills. What little he could gain by such deception is far outweighed by the possibility of a watcher, tracker, or town-aligned true killer who can out Charter for lying.

[popsofctown]

Whoeveritwasthatwelynchedyesterdaythatdidntpostanywaysoitsnotlikehemattered must have roleblocked a NKer at some point. This may or may not be useful.

Go feed a fledgling pigeon all the breadcrumbs Zakeri left.

When the pigeon is dead I'll tell you whether or not it's useful.

[popsofctown]

Wow.... page 72 is a goldmine laden with alignment info and goodieness..

Hiphop punches a case on RC godfather. The problem here is that I'm quite the pessimist when it comes to town ability to scumhunt (and I'm right to be that way, statistically the town edges over random chances, and stays far from blasting them). It's better off to listen to the mod info. If he sees the mod info as inferior, he's really overly optimistic about his own ability to scumhunt (and probably over optimistic about the process in general). In a hypathetical 25 man game, with a hypathetical looney mod that lives in a boot, we'd have a godfather, a miller, and an immune SK. In such a game, a sane cop is still ~88% accurate. (the squiggly is because it's over 24 not 25 because the cop doesn't investigate himself. But have you tried 100/24 in your head?? it's hard).

I don't think that difference in understanding of the game is scum fueled though. It's not townie either, it's probably just the way he views the game, so he plays it as town and bluffs that he's playing it as scum. But it is the reason why I'm not voting Redcoyote in this game with any less than 4 dumptrucks of tells or other mod info (and hiphop has not produced even a pickup truck of tells. Scum Never Bus isn't nearly enough).

But he lose a few points for voting someone who's probably townie (the way we've been docking players this game for having voted dead townies.) And then he loses tons of points for post 1779.
Waow.

That's bad, and really does look like a scum player forgetting his synthesized official platform on another player. And since it's coming from a player who's been pretty bleh and mech on the meter all day, it's not someone I wouldn't mind hanging.


Spyrex, I'm not liking the way you are looking down the scope in the latter half of 1784. "When one flips town kill the other" is fine if you can justify it, but instead you're handing me and "it's just there".

Then Pads comes and scumhunts in a logical, coherent way, something I don't recall happening this game. He makes a good case for Shotty active lurking, which might be something i just could give a name to this whole game. It's pretty compelling, and he explains a lot of alignments it could tell us about. But he doesn't mention the most interesting alignment, which is his, and that makes me want to see Shotty's flip.

but

Shotty's active lurking doesn't hold a candle to hiphop's flipflop acrobatics. I lynch for information when I can't find scum, and I think I've found it.

Vote: hiphop

[popsofctown]

Most of hiphop's play does not make sense at all. The only thing I can make sense of is really scummy. Sort of like my EP logic, except this hasn't been damaged by connections or an EP crumb.

[popsofctown]

ebwop: possible rofl crumb

sorry guys. tired posting. tired posting is just as dangerous as durnk posting kids! don't keep going, take an hour long nap at the gas station and drink a coffee instead!

[popsofctown]

let's make some false dilemmas!

[popsofctown]

Tell me I'm wrong, pops. Tell me everyone who voted Mae, except for charter, was town.

It's more than possible that everyone that voted Mae, except for charter, was town. If you look at what sort of wagon it was, and Mae's implosion towards the end, it's very plausible.


This whole scum quota thing seems like it's a version of the gambler's fallacy. (For example, if a fair coin is tossed repeatedly and tails comes up a larger number of times than is expected, a gambler may incorrectly believe that this means that heads is more likely in future tosses.[1] Such an expectation could be mistakenly referred to as being

due

--wikipedia robbery)

You're doing the same thing. It's not pure, milky probability like most gambler's fallacy cases, but you are making the same mistake. You look at the town flips, and then assume since on average every wagon has some scum, there needs to be more on the wagon. Instead you need to look at the town flips and realize they are information suggesting to you that today is not your jackpot.

[popsofctown]

You "unknowingly lied"?

I dont think that concept works in english. Which smells like doublespeak to me.

Hiphop, why don't you address my explanation of why you don't lynch players like RC? Please tell me why in sam hill you don't get that Rofl's investigation is at the very least ~85% accurate, and that it is better not to lynch RC without a written confession that's been double notarized.

[popsofctown]

I have to disagree. It's hard for scum to provide adequate reasoning for bussing since it's more of a decision to bus or not than it is an increasing suspicion causing them to think the player is scum. It more than fits a bussing format for me.

[popsofctown]

pops- some people believe that it isn't a lie if you believe it, but the fact remains 1680 had untrue statements in it.

Fact- there is a mason conneted to elvis, fact- there is connections between rc and elvis, fact-rc did not vote for either scum wagon, fact-our mod said some roles will be combined, fact- our mod uses godfather, fact- it says in wiki that a godfather is a common role, question- what does a godfather do? Fact-he heads a mafia group. Question- wouldn't there be a godfathers leading the scum group/s if there is two possible scum groups? I am saying that the godfather role is very likely.

Why should I address your paragragh about why rc can't be scum, if I already gave my case as to why he is more likely to be scum? You guys have seen my case, I am sure you can read it without me repeating myself.

You said that if there is a godfather the cop is 85% accurate. Well, if there is a godfather, who would you expect it to be? Also who is the mason?

There's no reason to believe there's a godfather, so I don't see the point in the first question.

If I knew that there was a godfather in this game, and had to guess who it was, I'd pick you, because you're the scummiest person in this game. If i actually wanted to resort to role-based tells I guess I'd pick a lurker. Which again points to you, or shotty since Pads has made a pretty good case for Shotty active lurking.

I have no clue how you find the other mason(s) (there could be more than 2 masons, right?). Unless they had a power we don't know about, the scum masons weren't really different from goons and they probably just neglected the daytalk ability altogether.

[popsofctown]

I think LAL needs some love ITT

[popsofctown]

First of all, I'd have to be convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I agree with my proposal. Spyrex put it simply but accurately: the major issue is that Spyrex and pops seem town.

You just posted a scale and put me close to scum. "seem" by default means that an objective observation draws that conclusion, so the omission of "to the rest of the town" makes me eyebrow raise here. Don't build your dump truck RC, you've been shady and speculative all day.

Spyrex/pops is a FALSE DILEMMA and you really need to cut the crap.
You really don't get the Gambler's fallacy comparison at all. Saying "a random 10 of 19 players should have some scum..." is a TOTAL regurgitation of false assertions from the gambler's fallacy.

[popsofctown]

Fine. ITT active lurking is worse than lying somehow.

Vote: Shotty

Pads, the RC godfather + hiphop scum thing occured to me too as an explanation for his erratic behavior. But ultimately we have to lynch RC to see if that's the case, and that's something I'm not going to do.

Hiphop seems like a bunch of people's pet newbtown. i like IK newbtown way better, and don't get why hiphop's overt deception gets far less attack than IK's bumbling.

[popsofctown]

Vote Count, Day 5

hiphop ( 1 ) - idiotking
shotty to the body ( 3 ) - Pads - Sotty7 - popsofctown
fhqwhgads ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 3 ) - SpyreX - fhqwhgads - RedCoyote
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 1 ) - hiphop
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 1 ) - Shotty to the Body
Total Votes ( 9 )

With 9 alive, 5 needed for a majority.
Deadline is December 23rd, 11am EST

I'm trying to find a way to make sure we meet deadline this holiday season.

And I'm voting Shotty for the

case

Pads built on him.

[popsofctown]

Vigfail.

Are you scum trying to stand your ground in a weak fallacy argument to defend yourself and/or Spyrex?

Come on. You haven't grown out of Scum Disagree with Town yet RC? townPops has a town read on Spyrex that's ages old, and knows he's town, so has more than enough reason to show that the your stoney, absolute Spyrex or Pops ultimatum is wrong.

[popsofctown]

Especially now after Idiotking's flip, I'm going to be very conservative about who's wagon I will really argue against. I will not lay myself in front of an SttB lynch for sure, although I would be willing to bet he's town.

Does it even need comment?
RC, you're acting like a dog that has realized it just tested out as purebred, and decided now it's safe to wallow in the mud endlessly because it's too valuable to get thrown out.

[popsofctown]

@ hiphop: the first reason of course. Your lynch is just not materializing today. Because lying. And setup speculation. Is todally cool.

After Shotty's decrease in active lurking, it's even more of a closepin vote.

[popsofctown]

Every time i hear shotty talk lately, i'm feeling a bit better about him.

unvote Shotty to the Body

The fact the players I feel certain are town aren't voting him is definitely one factor in this unvote. And building a reasoned case on another player just answers an accusation of active lurking too well.

Sotty... isn't someone I'm jumping out of my skin to lynch. She spits out two-bite brownie sized analyses every day and, yeah, never sticks her neck out, and those are bad things. It's not enough for slamdunkscum, so this is more an unvote for Shotty than it is a vote for Sotty. (again, I'm not voting hiphop only for popularity issues.)

Sotty, what I'd like to hear from you is whom I should want to lynch instead, and why. If the case on you is anything, it's an accusation of poor analysis volume. Change my mind.


RC, you violated the vote counts day 1 iirc and now you have a warning. I'm almost certain you have my alignment, so I'm going to urge you to word count all your posts now so that there is not a penalty on the town.

[popsofctown]

This game i so confusing...

Pads, why the sam hill are you asking for early claims?

Shotty refuted most of Sotty's points against him, so I'm gonna stick with Sotty vote here. And although directing the scum's gun was pretty dumb of Pads, his explanation of how Shotty could be vig makes me less inclined to lynch him.

And to restate my position, I wish I could lynch hiphop, but plurality voting or not, it's not happening.

[popsofctown]

vote: hiphop

I feel Sotty's lead is comfortable enough atm for me to put my vote where it oughtta be.

And on second though, no lynch actually wouldn't suck that much. it's one vig versus one mafia, and the lynch has a chance of killing/ousting the vig.

[popsofctown]

Pads, if your crazy theory is right, it doesn't matter who is lynched, the town loses either way.

Day 6 -2 scum, 1 lyncher, 3 townies. -lynch shotty during day
Night6-1 scum, 1 lyncher, 3 townies. -scum shoot a townie [not spyrex or pads]*
Day 7 -1 scum, 1 lyncher, 2 townies. Scum and lyncher vote NoLynch.
Night 7- 1 scum, 1 lyncher, 2 townies. Scum shoot a nonPads townie.
Day 7 - 1 scum, 1 lyncher, 1 townPads- lyncher and scum lynch pads together. Spyrex enjoys fried froglegs.

*this shot is pretty probable, due to the lyncherSpyrex possibility itself and a whole lot of townies being more popular than Pads.

Since your hypothesis of the situation doesn't actually offer much of a way to change your odds of winning, I think you should adopt a different one, even if you think it's less likely (as long as it actually gives you a way of winning).

Traitorvig was a pretty heavy scum mechanic, and the half bullet SK was third party spice enough. So I do doubt Spyrex is lyncher. Plus i have a townie vibe from Spyrex and I don't think that comes off lynchers.



"Shotty is scum, he's not vig", is less of a conspiracy theory and more of a possibilty. The case he pushed on Sotty was wrong, and I was wrong with him. That puts him in a pretty bad place just on voting record. Still have mixed feelings about him. Odds are, he defends himself today and change my mind again. Maybe it's something he did a long time ago that keeps bugging me, but the human error of overvaluing more recent information is kickin in on me every time. (wikipedia it)

[popsofctown]

Also vanilla.

[popsofctown]

It's even number of people. If you haven't seen the phenomenon before, it goes like this: if we mislynch today, we lose. We have a 2/3 chance of mislynching today if we are all dumb chimpanzees. If we no lynch then tomorrow it will also be LyLo, but we will only have a 3/5 chance of mislynching if we are all dumb chimpanzees.

And the dead person's analysis is somewhat validated and whatnot.

[popsofctown]

obvus bulletproof hider softclaim.

Shotty: who's scum? Did Sotty's flip surprise you? Does it make you re-evaluate your gameview?
Pads and Spyrex have been at eachother's throats. Is it townie squabble, a scum and a townie, or an elaborate game-long double scum ruse?

[popsofctown]

It's TOTALLY circular logic to put a live, unconfirmed player in a list of townies I've been willing to lynch. Looks kind of like you're forcing your case.

Imaginality lurked massively through day 1, so I didn't discuss him much. His posting seemed pretty middle of the road and unworthy of comment to me, thankfully RC saw more in it.

E_k didn't do anything I considered terribly suspicious day 1, and didn't have a huge postcount either. I was all the way up to elvis's death on day 2, when rofl established a relationship between e_k and imaginality that was so strong the vig had shot her before i got here.

There's no "deflecting" in those posts. First quote was in the middle of my large case on Energetic penguin, elvis wasn't the central topic and discussing her would have been a rabbit trail.

Second quote, obvusly I'm deflecting from talking about the dead e_k. Because I'm scum and I don't want to talk about my mason buddy i guess, it just makes me cry a little.

And third quote, I commit the seventh deadly sin and forget to FoS a dead player. Ohmigosh.

FoS: Charter

FoS: Elvis_knits

FoS: Imaginality

I still don't think posting fluff is a scumtell. Not posting content is a scumtell.

[popsofctown]

#1, yeah, i defend Shotty. Make something of it after you know he's scum, not before. Connections with the alignment known are hard enough to get a good lynch n.

#2 is just fluff posting. The way Spyrex phrased what he said really made me laugh.

#3, I'm just being pragmatic, he won't reach the lynch threshhold. If you like to derive the false conclusions of bandwagon fallacy everytime you see the pieces lying around that's your fault.

#4, decent analysis just didn't make it into my little player-by-player accomplishment book.

#5, are you arguing a no-lynch was pro-town yesterday? It was 1. hiphop, 2. Shotty at that point in the game, and that's why i was unhappy to join the wagon. I like my #1s.

#6, I disagree. Active lurkers are lurking because they have difficulty posting any real analysis from the scum mindset. Solid content suggests that that player is working from a town mindset because they have the ability to analyze a player.

Shotty: who's scum? Did Sotty's flip surprise you? Does it make you re-evaluate your gameview?

What kind of limp wristed inquisition is that? Pops has been tongue lashing people for the whole game. SpyreX, Xyl, Infinis, RedCoyote, Idiotking, Maemuki, Vi and myself have all had our ability to play brought into question. So what's with this soft, gentle approach?

This is scum talking to a buddy any day of the week.

Well he is my handhug buddy.

[popsofctown]

you're acting like a dog that has realized it just tested out as purebred, and decided now it's safe to wallow in the mud endlessly because it's too valuable to get thrown out.

[popsofctown]

I'm in favor of a no lynch, hiphop, I'm just not voting it yet because I want to get all the discussion out of the day that we can.

Pads and Spyrex is probably townie squabble, but occasionally Pads gets reachy and contrived and I'm not sure about him.

[popsofctown]

Yeah, proper play for the win.

Vote: No Lynch

To answer hiphop: I actually think Shotty is the scummiest player left in the game, but the fact both you and Pads would lynch me if/when he flips scum makes me feel kind of dead-ended. (We've come to that point that self preservation is actually more important to town than to scum. They can lose a man if they have 2, we can't).

I'd probably vote Shotty anyway if I wasn't voting the cough correct play for today cough No Lynch. I'd just have to hope you guys come to the right decision. Faith in humankind. That thing that's lost me several mafia games XD.

[popsofctown]

fhq, who's scum? you should tell us what you think, this might be your last day.

[popsofctown]

The whole "needing two misvotes" thing is just a way of twisting the situation around so it looks different. The town has to find scum and lynch it tomorrow.

[popsofctown]

And it's easier if there's only 5. I should finish my thoughts.

[popsofctown]

I'm not gonna disagree with you and validate your viewpoint at the same time pads. Geeeeeeez

[popsofctown]

Sorry Pads, am i being mean

[popsofctown]

Or Spyrex will CUT you.



(am jokeposting because i don't have time for realposting)

[popsofctown]

Player by player analysis

Pads: He really scumhunts, to be honest. But I tend not to agree with bunches of it. Doesn't give me a good gut feeling when I read his posts, but on paper, he plays the game more than any living player it seems.

Spyrex: Spyrex is town. It's mostly gut. Also, he's been off some of the key mislynch wagons.

Shotty to the Body: I shouldn't have voted Sotty. "Defenses are overrated", and he active lurked this game. What scumhunting he does do isn't that impressive. I think this game I need to ignore my gut and favor Shotty rather than Pads.

Hiphop: Scumhunts less than any other player, horrible D1 play. Pads-hiphop is a reason I'd want to vote Pads, because Pads somehow defended this utterly crappy player. (I'd prolly want to see a hiphop flip first). Hiphop admitted to lying, but some of the other townies seem to think that's not a big deal since he was essentially honest about it, so maybe I overreacted. In general, great minds think alike, and players I have pegged for town are gunning more for Shotty than hiphop, so I'm going to delegate a bit and vote Shotty.



I'm going to vote shotty, but I'm gonna wait for a some discussion first.

[popsofctown]

I was hoping for discussion that wasn't a Spyrex-Pads slapfight.

[popsofctown]

Spyrex, can I have the top 5 scummy things Pads has done? As a refresher. Yes I could dig, but restatement always comes differently and sometimes good comes of it.

Also, what are your objections to Shotty lynch?

[popsofctown]

I don't think any player is under so much pressure that scum will bus either.
Hm.

From my PoV, I expect Spyrex, me, and some other player who is actually town to lynch scum. I'm not sure I can lynch Shotty without Spyrex on board.

[popsofctown]

I'm still working on the pads but, for the sake of discussion, lets follow that thought process:

You think I'm town.
You are town.
One other is town.
You also think the scum aren't bussing.
We are assuming 2 scum are left.

It requires all three of said town to lynch a scum.

Of the three not discussed two (other than you) have professed desire to lynch someone that is not either you nor I.

Therefore, by nature, the person that is desired to lynch would be... town!

And, process of elimination says the two lynching would be the scum.

Whoa


I get it now.

My feeling that you are town is much stronger than the difference between Pads' and Shotty's independent scumminess, so I'm going to follow this logic and hope it's crazy enough to work. (though, tbh, it's pretty sturdy).

-Intention to vote Pads-

[popsofctown]

Have you seen Pads latest post? It proves he's scum.

[popsofctown]

Pads: 3 townies need to vote the scum today, unless there's a bus. Shotty's lynch was coming together, yet one of the people I strongly think is town (a conviction i guess i'm not allowed to have about anyone?) wasn't with me. That meannt either scum was bussing (shotty's not near that desperate), Spyrex is scum (nah), or that I suck at scumhunting (highly likely).

And I ask everyone for cases. I can't understand why they are right or wrong if i don't hear about them. If they're flawed, I need to defend the target, if it's right, i need to vote the scum.

That post i quoted from spyrex was a lightbulb perception of how the votecount had shown a spotlight on the scum. I'm feeling confident about this game for once.

[popsofctown]

What's a klaxon?




Give me one.

[popsofctown]

Unless Pads killed fhq because deadSpyrex would appear to be a Pads kill.


Wait, is it the wine in front of me or the wine across the table?

[popsofctown]

does it look like a frog in an armchair or a frog in a frying pan Shotty? I know how his recent posts come off to me.

[popsofctown]

I'm in favor of taking any discussion needed before the day ends in any game I play, Pads. I play to win, and discussion helps the town.

Spyrex, do you want to wait until Shotty decides what to do with himself?

[popsofctown]

By the logic you gave me earlier, if you think i'm town, Pads is the scum.

[popsofctown]

We told him not to drink the seawater.