Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[Idiotking]

/confirm

Gheh, my apologies for my tardiness, folks, but I won't be able to be active until Sunday.

[Idiotking]

Sigh. Finished rereading. You people are evil, I hate you

all

, do you hear me?


Hiphop bothers me. Something about his posts (they're mostly one-line and have very little substance) makes me think he's just trying to float by without actually doing anything substantial. For example, his last two posts are more concerned with chiding people for word count rather than doing something useful. It just seems like active lurking to me, even though the game's only been going for this long.

I don't think Crypto is suspicious either, given my knowledge of his play style. He does tend to make a whole lot of pretty meaningless posts, though when he does make a meaningful one it is substantial.

I don't know about either ConfidAnon for SpyreX. I just... I can't get a read on either of them. Then again, I do tend to have difficulty seeing scumminess on rereads, so maybe I'll be able to get a picture of them now that I'm available to post.

[Idiotking]

Hmm... the Crypto comment doesn't seem to be worded well after the Hiphop one, but drop the "either" and it works.

[Idiotking]

Hiphop is active lurking. I can't decide if that's scummy enough to warrant a vote, though; it's possible that he's got a perfectly towny reason to lay low, though I don't know exactly what it could be.

[Idiotking]

Hiphop is active lurking. I can't decide if that's scummy enough to warrant a vote, though; it's possible that he's got a perfectly towny reason to lay low, though I don't know exactly what it could be.

This seems to me like scum fishing for a power role.

T'wasn't rolefishing. I think it's possible that hiphop could be a townie (regardless of role) just trying to stay alive long enough to get a bead on what's going on. I know I'm having similar problems, so I can see why he'd be under duress. However, if hiphop is used to playing large normal games, the active lurking is suspicious.

[Idiotking]

@Hoopla:

To hell with concision. I'm a wordy person. Get used to it.

And feel free to check my meta. I'm using the same phrases I've always used, and since your main problem with my posts seem to be my word choice, there's little I can say in my defense.

[Idiotking]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 1 ) Hoopla
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 3 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 0 )
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 1 ) roflcopter
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - crypto - Infinis
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 14 ) - Idiotking - Juls - imaginality - Psychologic - Maemuki - sigma - CSL - elvis_knits - Pads - Vi - Sotty7 - Energetic Penguin - charter RayFrost
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 still needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

Because I hate Spiderman.

[Idiotking]

@Hoopla:

To hell with concision. I'm a wordy person. Get used to it.

And feel free to check my meta. I'm using the same phrases I've always used, and since your main problem with my posts seem to be my word choice, there's little I can say in my defense.

Why haven't you put a vote down on anyone in 17 pages?

Um... I was gone until this morning, you remember. And I prefer not to use my vote willy-nilly.

[Idiotking]

Care to explain why, or are you just going to ride on somebody else's case against me?

[Idiotking]

Care to explain why, or are you just going to ride on somebody else's case against me?

1. your reason to not move your vote at all is just really scummy ("I hate spiderman")

That was kinda obviously in response to Hiphop.

2. the excuse you give of "not using your vote willy-nilly" kinda fails when it's page 18, past the RVS, and there is plenty of information to give at least ONE vote change.

Really? A great deal of the town's information was concerned with Confid, and he wound up being a vanilla townie. Do you really think there's any useful information on D1, other than that there's a daykill role somewhere? I don't think so. I've got to be sure of a case before I put vote on someone. Right now, I don't see anything strong enough to convince me of

anything

.

3. what hoopla said, cuz hoopla is awesome.

So you ARE riding on someone else's case against me. At least you're honest.

[Idiotking]

1. no... it wasn't obvious.

Yeah... it kinda was. Note at what time the post was made and what Hiphop's avatar is.

2. so you are just going to sit back, let the town make all the cases, not scumhunt, and then later jump on something that you feel will get somewhere? thanks for the info.

Did I say I was going to do that? Really? Where? When? I'm mulling what to do about hiphop. Do you have a problem with this? Do you think that I should just fling myself bodily forward, no thought or logic behind what I'm doing, and go blindly forth unto a maelstrom of conflicting opinions? No, I'm going to take the slow and steady way of doing things, thank-you-very-much. It lends itself to a lot fewer screw-ups.

3. Pretending that I don't have my own points is noted.

Name a single original point you've presented. Just one.

[Idiotking]

#1 is an idiotic and apparently intentional misinterpretation of the target of my post, and therefore meaningless.

#2 was originally presented by Hoopla.

Thanks for playing.

[Idiotking]

Educated guess? No. All I've heard for the last X number of pages is white noise. "Crypto's scummy" "SpyreX" is scummy" "Confid is scummy" "sigma is scummy" and no progress made on any of them save Confid getting daykilled. If there's so much information, why hasn't the town killed somebody yet? Hmm? Is it because there's a lot of noise and no real information? Hmm? If there really is any information it's hidden behind wall after wall of desperate witchhunting. This is why I dislike D1, and apparently in large normals the witchhunting is far, far, far worse than in small normals.

I'm going to go at my own pace, whether you like it or not. If you really hate it, lynch me. You're not going to make me rush no matter what you do.

[Idiotking]

My my my, that's an amazing argument you have there, Ray. Simply stunning. I'm stunned.

Now.

The only other person who sticks out in my head is CSL. His posts mostly seem overly short, pointless, and moronic. I'm somewhat amazed he hasn't caught more heat for them. Asking Vi to make him an avatar? Commenting on Hoopla's repeatedly? And Maemuki's? What's the point of that?

[Idiotking]

The game you quoted from was such a spectacular disaster on my part that I try not to even acknowledge its existence.

In my more recent games, I've been far less inclined to blindly follow someone else's reasoning, particularly the last two I've finished.

And as a note on why I don't have any completed scum games, there's a very simple answer for this. Every single time I've gotten a mafia role, I've replaced out. I would rather actually

win

a game as town before I seriously try my hand as scum, so I've always replaced out to give the scum team a chance.

As for random voting, yeah, I do that mostly so I don't have to deal with the consequences of

not

doing it. I caught hell for just saying I didn't like random voting once, so I've gotten used to just going through the motions. Unfortunately, this time I missed the RVS entirely and had... 15? 16? pages to read through when I returned, and I didn't see anything particularly standing out besides CSL's pointless posts and hiphop's active lurking.

[Idiotking]

And as a note on why I don't have any completed scum games, there's a very simple answer for this. Every single time I've gotten a mafia role, I've replaced out. I would rather actually

win

a game as town before I seriously try my hand as scum, so I've always replaced out to give the scum team a chance.

That's really bad. Being mafia is part of the game - you should NEVER replace out because you got a role you don't like.

And as a note on why I don't have any completed scum games, there's a very simple answer for this. Every single time I've gotten a mafia role, I've replaced out. I would rather actually

win

a game as town before I seriously try my hand as scum, so I've always replaced out to give the scum team a chance.

That's really bad. Being mafia is part of the game - you should NEVER replace out because you got a role you don't like.

It's not so much that I don't like getting scum (I kinda enjoy being scum on another site I frequent). It's the fact that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I don't know how to be scum on this site. It's more for the sake of the scumteam than anything else. I join a game, play for a few days, and freeze. I can't think of what to do, so I do nothing. And when that happens, I can only replace out. Hell, it's not even that I haven't tried. It's that I never succeed in overcoming that freeze.

[Idiotking]

Gah, double quote!

[Idiotking]

1) Replacements are hard enough to find as it, without people leaving for role related reasons.
2) If you ever replace out in the future for genuine reasons it could incriminate your replacement, and cause wifom guess games about why you left which detracts from scumhunting.
3) You learn from your mistakes. You're never going to improve if you don't play the game.

You have no excuses for pussying out and making the game less fun for people.

I'm not trying to give excuses, just my reasons. I know I'm in the wrong here.

Agreed on all points. Idiotking, replacing out of a game for those reasons is unethical. I'm

hoping

you just didn't understand what is and isn't a good reason to replace out of the game, and are usually an ethical person.

I figured that giving the scumteam a better chance for survival was ethical enough. I don't try and intentionally screw games up.

IK can you point to any completed games you replaced out as scum?

I'll try to find some. I don't keep track of them.

[Idiotking]

As it is, Ray really did seem to want to pressure me based on Hoopla's case and nothing else. His "reasoning" during my argument with him was faulty, given that he didn't have a foundation for anything he was saying.

1. your reason to not move your vote at all is just really scummy ("I hate spiderman")

2. the excuse you give of "not using your vote willy-nilly" kinda fails when it's page 18, past the RVS, and there is plenty of information to give at least ONE vote change.

3. what hoopla said, cuz hoopla is awesome.

1 is clearly bogus. I think he was just trying to come up with a better reason than "Oh, Hoopla's right".

2 is a restatement of what Hoopla had already said.

3 is... pathetic, really. It really is just saying "Oh, Hoopla's right".

And then he goes on an tries to argue these points and fails miserably because they aren't his. Which bothers me.

[Idiotking]

Tempted to vote crypto, but it's a reasonable assumption to make in a game this large, isn't it?

As for me, CSL isn't doing anything useful at all.

Vote CSL

Happy now, Hoopla/Ray?

[Idiotking]

I don't think his choice of words should be the reason he gets lynched. He could say "There are two scumteams" and it still be an assumption. I'm pretty sure most people have done that before.

[Idiotking]

There are two scum groups. (Stated as fact)

There are probably two scum groups. (Assumption).

I think it's nitpicking to lynch over the omission of a single word.

[Idiotking]

And another shot to my pride from Vi... *sigh*

Why would my vote on CSL have to impress you, elvis_knits? Is this a popularity contest? Did I at least do well in the swimsuit portion? More importantly, do you or do you not agree that CSL has made less-than-useful posts thusfar?

[Idiotking]

@ Everyone who is making excuses to cover crypto: why are you making excuses?

I just see nitpicking to be witchhunting, which doesn't help the town. If there's a better case on crypto, then that's fine. But to have so many votes switch over

because

of the nitpicking? That's stupid.

[Idiotking]

I'm also keeping a close eye on IdiotKing - his fence-sittingy post (652) gave him ample room to join the wagon but makes him look good if it goes nowhere.

I like how you say this without commenting on the fact that I repeatedly tried to point out that it was an assumption. I made it very clear that I thought it was stupid for people to vote for that reason.

[Idiotking]

Your vote had to impress me because you said you don't vote willy-nilly and it's your first vote of the game.

I find that CSL is a good choice for a lynch, given the fact that if saved until late-game, such useless people give scum an easy route to pressure/lynch.

CSL doesn't really seem town to me, so in that sense I guess it's an okay vote. But there's like a hella other stuff going on more important than CSL, and you aren't very involved.

I don't like being involved in pointless bickering. It's not really going anywhere until there's solid fact to draw from. Such solid fact isn't available on D1 (well, except for a daykiller role in this instance). So I propose we lynch a useless person today rather than run the risk of getting screwed for letting them live later on.

Also you voted CSL and said "are you happy now, ray/hoopla?" like the vote was more to please them than because you actually thought he was scum.

Ok, I get it. I'll leave sarcasm out of every single post I ever make.

Are you happy now?

Combined with my earlier dislike of how you said we can't learn anything from the confidwagon/kill. And you've really flip flipped a lot on crypto.

I've been pretty consistent in my opinion that crypto's acting normally, as crypto goes. Where have I flip-flopped?

And when did I say "we can't learn anything from the confidwagon"? When did I use those words? Hmm?

[Idiotking]

... Ok. So that's... uh...

Unvote

So I suppose I wait for the replacement to show up, then. My, but there are a lot of replacing out today, isn't there?

[Idiotking]

With my understanding from your post, only you can be wordy.

Sarcasm.

Also forgive me for not saying you are town, because you did not ask for a replacement, for it is all a bunch of wifom.

That's a reasonable statement to make. You'd be stupid to think I was town for that reason.

However you are playing to your town meta from the last game, except you don't have any case this time. Do you believe that you will get a case before the lynch, or are you just hoping for one?

I don't know. From the way people are shifting around, we could be lynched in the next five minutes for all I know. I hate D1.

[Idiotking]

"Lynching", not "Lynched".

[Idiotking]

So... why exactly aren't we going to wait for a replacement and then judge the replacement by his or her own merit? Shouldn't we at least give the replacement a chance?

[Idiotking]

Mod, sorry to bother you, but you have me both voting for CSL and not voting.

I don't really think it would be fair to lynch CSL before his replacement arrives. I think that CSL was just overwhelmed by this game and couldn't handle it, just like Budja. If this is true, then he would have reacted the same regardless of his alignment.

As it is, my vote will now have to go to the second-most-useless player, Energetic_Penguin. His ISO read is... heh... quite laughable. He has 11 posts, all of them woefully lacking in substance.

Therefore,

Vote Energetic_Penguin

Would using the phrase "post or die" here be a false dilemma?

[Idiotking]

It's not just the activity levels. Mafia players tend to get hostile towards each other whether intentionally or not. If that gets to be too much, I wouldn't be surprised if someone like him replaced out. I hardly see how empathizing with the soft-skinned makes me scum.

[Idiotking]

Ah hell. Why not.

Unvote

Vote CSL

While I much (much much much) prefer giving replacements a chance, I agree that it's probably for the best that his spot gets lynched. I'm just gonna feel real bad if he flips town and we didn't give the replacement a shot.

[Idiotking]

And that's what annoys me. There's always this nagging possibility that CSL was a moron, but a townie one. I just feel icky not giving another player a chance.

[Idiotking]

I had this post made shortly before D2 started, and damned if I'm not gonna post it anyway.

-----

Shit. I knew I'd feel bad about not giving a replacement a shot. Oh well... what's done is done.

Now, I finally get to do something useful, sort of, maybe. Here's a list of the top bandwagons of D1:

ConfidAnon ( 9 ) - sigma - CSL - roflcopter - elvis_knits - Pads - Vi - Sotty7 - charter - Energetic Penguin
Energetic Penguin ( 5 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality - Vi
crypto ( 4 ) - Hoopla - elvis_knits - Energetic Penguin - roflcopter
CSL ( 15 ) - RedCoyote - sigma - Pads - crypto - popsofctown - roflcopter - Infinis - shotty to the body - charter - hiphop - idiotking - hoopla - imaginality - Vi - Sotty7

Actually, Charter, roflcopter, Vi, sigma, Pads, and Sotty7 were all on both the Confid and CSL wagons. I get the feeling that at least half of these folks are scum, if not more.

Nobody is on all the wagons (though there may have been some votes/unvotes that changed things), but I do note that Vi and roflcopter are on three of them, and that Vi voted for 8 different people throughout the game. To me, this looks like he swapped back and forth between players, trying to get something to stick and then push it. I get the same feeling from elvis_knits, who voted 5 times and lurked through the majority of the Confid situation. She was also one of the ones who blindly switched over to crypto after he said that there were two scumgroups. Then immediately afterwards, once it became clear that crypto had some basis for what he was saying, she essentially said "oh, sorry, I wasn't thinking" in ISO 23-25. Wouldn't it have been a good idea to analyze the sitation on her own instead of blindly follow charter's statement? I also note that her votes were always on the "popular" lynches and almost always coming

after

someone else had presented a case. This is just bad play on her part, and I think it indicates that she doesn't really care who gets lynched, so long as someone does. As a result,

Vote elvis_knits

[Idiotking]

This is not a good reason to suspect elvis_knits.

Care to tell me why not?

[Idiotking]

Voting is not scummy. Bandwagoning is not scummy. Changing your mind is not scummy.

Voting is not scummy, unless it is only on popular targets, and only after other people have made their cases. Bandwagoning is not scummy, unless it is only on popular targets. Changing your mind is not scummy, unless it's because you didn't think anything through in the first place and just hopped on a bandwagon for no goddamn good reason.

[Idiotking]

Do you even know what bandwagoning means?

In my head it means hopping on a bandwagon, or helping to form one. If I'm wrong feel free to fill me in.

And do you disagree with the rest of my statement?

[Idiotking]

Okay. So... in what cases will bandwagoning

not

be on a "popular target"?

By popular target I mean people who are considered scum by the loudest players, and usually the majority. Bandwagons don't have to be on such popular targets.



And to me it looks like Vi just wants to keep me alive until late-game so he can use me as an easy lynch target. Aside from his arrogant "lol hes a nub" attitude, he has no particular reason to say that I'm just an easy target, and therefore not scum. Why are you so hellbent on not making a case against me, even if I am scummy, Vi?

[Idiotking]

This is the same reason that I avoided the CSL wagon yesterday until I could not avoid it. And in the end, the CSL lynch turned out to be a good thing - we got rid of a majority-vote distraction to the Town and got three flips, all of which were pretty revealing. After seeing that and Xyl's process-of-policy-lynch in BoTaM, I'm reconsidering my position on early-game lynches. For right now though, if you would rather I wagon you for everyone's sake instead of pursuing people I think are obvious scum, you can keep waiting and being disappointed. In the event that you are alive in the late game, you're welcome to bring that accusation up again if and when it happens.

I fully intend to, if I live till then.

As far as insulting your play and meta goes, I will absolutely hold this game over your head.

Yes... that game. The first game I ever played on this site. The darkest hour of my Mafia career.... *sigh*

[Idiotking]

Voting Idiotking is still like claiming scum.

Wait a minute... if you're OK with everyone else lynching me, then why is voting for me like claiming scum? That doesn't make any sense.

[Idiotking]

FOS RayFrost

for an idiotic appeal to emotion. "Kill me or get over it" is a mind-numbingly stupid thing to say regardless of your alignment.

[Idiotking]

For scum, it's stupid because it's obvious. For town, it's stupid because it's anti-town. Poor play is anti-town, anti-town = suspicious in my opinion. So while it's stupid regardless of his alignment, it's also suspicious, and since it's so blatant, I think it deserves a FOS.

[Idiotking]

I'm leaning that way, yeah.

[Idiotking]

The only contact that Ray and imaginality had was one (very brief) conversation in which imaginality said Ray was ever-so-slightly-scummy, and where Ray said he'd completely forgotten about imaginality. Then they proceeded to stop talking to each other again.

Beyond the appeal to emotion, I'm bothered by Ray's disinterest in unique scumhunting (his first discussion with me was completely based off of Hoopla's argument, even though he tried passing it off as his own), his inability to form opinions on controversial subjects (Vi, for instance), and as you and RedCoyote hinted at, Ray's 978 and 980 are sad. If I wasn't voting for elvis, I'd probably be voting for Ray, followed by Vi.

[Idiotking]

Good job, vig! Now with Elvis dead,

Vote RayFrost

[Idiotking]

Is it usual for you to never explain why you vote for people?

[Idiotking]

Voting Idiotking is still like claiming scum.

Wait a minute... if you're OK with everyone else lynching me, then why is voting for me like claiming scum? That doesn't make any sense.

Still waiting for a response to this, Vi.

[Idiotking]

Voting Idiotking is still like claiming scum.

Wait a minute... if you're OK with everyone else lynching me, then why is voting for me like claiming scum? That doesn't make any sense.

VI. I WAS NOT KIDDING. ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

[Idiotking]

I'm here. Will probably be able to post something useful (and most likely in my defense) tomorrow. It's 2:08 AM now.

[Idiotking]

Ok.

For the CSL wagon: I'm fully prepared to take any heat I deserve for being on it. I was correct in thinking that a replacement would be a good idea, but I also agreed of my own free will to remain on the wagon and kill him. If you think this is scummy, then my sincerest apologies. I know I'm responsible for my vote.

As for 'connections': The only one you've proposed that I can see, RC, is a 'connection' with elvis, and you say it's bussing/distancing. This indicates that I've had nothing but negative connections with scum. Do you really think that I could be buddies with elvis simply as a result of only very negative interactions? I think you're really reaching here. If you suspect me, at least come up with better reasons than this.

[Idiotking]

You want I should strangle myself for you? It might be easier.

[Idiotking]

What exactly do you expect me to do? Rant and rave about how I was so totally right and was pressed into service against my will? See, it's a funny catch-22. If I take responsibility, I'm doomed. If I don't take responsibility, I'm equally doomed. So if I'm to be doomed no matter what I do, I might as well be honest and have a clear conscience. Though I'm betting that the after-game commentary on my play will be nothing short of withering.

[Idiotking]

It's not an appeal to emotions, or at least not intentionally one. It's more of a realization that I can't defend on this point, so I'll have to move on to something else, like pointing out the connections bit. Which there are none of, by the way, except for purely negative interactions.

I also want to point out the fact that if you (the town) keep lynching people based on the fact that "oh dude this guy is scum and hes dead and we should so totally lynch the people he said were scum cuz his buddys in there im sure of it" we're not really going to get anywhere.

[Idiotking]

There's nothing I can say about imaginality because I wasn't the one who did the thing that makes me "scummy". Coupled with the elvis thing and the CSL lynch, I really have nothing I can actually defend against. Ho hum.

Before I die, though, I'd like to say that Ray is still most likely scum, and RC is looking that way too. Not for OMGUS, but more because his case against me sucks. In reality his case can only encompass the CSL thing, and voting for me because of my actions on a single bandwagon, in this game which is now 55 pages long, is very weak.

I also wanna point out that throughout this game I've been on most people's scumlists, so mafia could have just had me on their lists to go along with general opinion.

[Idiotking]

Also I'm thinking that there are two scum left.

[Idiotking]

Three scum are dead, one was a traitor. To my thinking it would have been fair to have two 2-man scumteams and one traitor that either of the scumteams could recruit.

[Idiotking]

Before I die, though, I'd like to say that Ray is still most likely scum, and RC is looking that way too. Not for OMGUS, but more because his case against me sucks. In reality his case can only encompass the CSL thing, and voting for me because of my actions on a single bandwagon, in this game which is now 55 pages long, is very weak.

The only contact that Ray and imaginality had was one (very brief) conversation in which imaginality said Ray was ever-so-slightly-scummy, and where Ray said he'd completely forgotten about imaginality. Then they proceeded to stop talking to each other again.

Beyond the appeal to emotion, I'm bothered by Ray's disinterest in unique scumhunting (his first discussion with me was completely based off of Hoopla's argument, even though he tried passing it off as his own), his inability to form opinions on controversial subjects (Vi, for instance), and as you and RedCoyote hinted at, Ray's 978 and 980 are sad. If I wasn't voting for elvis, I'd probably be voting for Ray, followed by Vi.

[Idiotking]

A multi-word apology doesn't do it for me. Especially with the "you want me to strangle myself" after.

I'm definitely not subscribing to the elvis list being a rosetta stone for scum.

However the bad-dog pose with the puppy dog eyes does little for me.

And painting all the votes as if they are a function of that, well.

Unvote, Vote: IK

And I just wanted to point out that as with roflcopter bringing up the imaginality scumlist, several people

are

using dead-mafia scumlists as "rosetta stone

".

[Idiotking]

Ray, what's your scumlist and why?

[Idiotking]

Also, I'm trying a new playstyle so I can get in the head of town-lurkers like mae.

It helps.

In response to:

RayFrost is lurking like a beast here, even more scummily than some others. Rayfrost chimes in every now and again with some fluff (reread his ISO, it's more fluff than content at this point) and then vanishes. Hell, I knew something was up with him when I FORGOT him in my first post, he's skimming in under the radar fantastically. At the very least I would like to have him get in the game and if we have to force him to do that with votes so be it.

[Idiotking]

So basically, yes.

[Idiotking]

Also, am I voting for him right now?

Unvote

Vote RayFrost

in case I wasn't.

[Idiotking]

*sigh*

Why is it whenever I'm hyperactive that everyone slows down with the posting?

[Idiotking]

Look, it's been a total of

nineteen minutes

since someone else posted. We're never going to lynch by the deadline if it keeps going like this.

[Idiotking]

Since I'm bored with waiting,

@Town: Do you believe that Ray has been getting off easy despite lurking/going with the flow/having absolutely zero redeeming qualities?

[Idiotking]

Ray. What. Is. Your. Scumlist.

[Idiotking]

And. Why.

[Idiotking]

Make up your mind. Do you agree with the IK hate or not? Because not very long ago at ALL you said:

<--- will go with an IK lynch

Which, y'know, kinda means you agree with it. Add flipflopping to the list of reasons you need to die.

[Idiotking]

And no, no replacing out this time. The poor mod's had enough to handle.

[Idiotking]

Wait, so this late in the game you'd lynch a NEUTRAL READ when there are two other players besides hito that you've said were scum? And you're not voting/pressuring them?

FLAMING FOS OF DEATH ON RAY

Because I'm already voting you.

[Idiotking]

So I guess you're not gonna defend yourself, then?

[Idiotking]

...

[Idiotking]

Earlier you didn't say that my 'rolefishing' was a scumtell for me. As for the AtE, I don't see that as an appeal to emotion at all. As I said, it's more of a realization that I can't argue on that point and it mean anything. And then I proceeded to not argue on it. I also don't see the connections you claim to be there, and vote attractiveness does

not

make me suspicious, actions do. And as for my disappearance on D3, it's nearing finals. I had 3 term papers to finish. And I am most certainly now here.

As for my lack of offense earlier today, again, it was because I was in absent for academic reasons.

[Idiotking]

That was supposed to read "Earlier you said that my 'rolefishing' wasn't a scumtell for me." I have no idea how I screwed that up.

[Idiotking]

Why exactly should we unvote from Ray? 1389 was a terribly scummy post.

[Idiotking]

Wait, nevermind. You linked to the wrong post, 1381 instead of 1389. But I still don't get why that post should make us unvote.

[Idiotking]

If you don't see post 1343 as an appeal to emotion, one among multiple you've made this game, then you're being stubborn. You're essentially saying, "Woe is me, no matter what I do I am doomed to this cursed fate of a lynch! *slits wrists* You want I should strangle myself for you?!"

Never did I say "woe is me". I didn't give up, as you seem to indicate. To me an appeal to emotion involves a sort of "you're gonna feel sorry for lynching a townie" sort of thing going on, or "everybody's picking on me, I didn't do anything wrong".

You actually said that last sentence! That isn't an exaggeration!

That was a joke.

Give me a break, Idiotking. It doesn't

get

anymore emotional than your self-pitiful defeatism. I pictured a teenage girl crying that their mother was grounding them on prom night or something, "You want me to hang myself for you, Mom?!?! You're ruining my life!! ;_;"

If I was a defeatist, would I really still be alive right now? Did I say it was hopeless? Nope. Just because I figured I was going to die doesn't mean I had given up hope just yet. Townies don't have to be alive to win.

The connections are that the only people still alive that elvis talked about are you and hito. imaginality puts you in a tiered list with a bunch of other confirmed townies. Odds are, there is a scum in that tier.

And here's the "Rosetta stone" argument. You need something stronger to back this up.

Vote attractiveness, I would contend, gives the town security in their perceptions of you as scum. It is comforting to know that confirmed townies crypto and Hoopla were just as concerned with you as we are.

Is it the fact that other people suspected me that makes me scummy, or is it what I did to make them come to that conclusion? This is not a scumtell and should not be included in a case.

I wasn't aware of your school commitments, it would've been nice to hear about you having to delay mafia for a few days (if you made this post, quote it and I will concede the point).

I didn't, as far as I remember. I dislike bringing personal things into games like this. The only reason I did it now was because you seem hellbent on bringing it up.



As for RF, I don't think he's going to come up with anything spectacular. Something tells me he's given up already. Maybe it's the whole "I should just replace out, this game is too much of a bother" thing.

[Idiotking]

Note that IK didn't have anything to say about RayFrost today until Shotty brought it up, and now he's digging in to a RayFrost wagon as hard as he can. Classic redirecting, no? Note that Hito joined, as well.

This is not true. I'd already said (just a FEW POSTS BEFORE, are you BLIND?!) that Ray was my top pick, followed by a possible RC for his lackluster case against me.



In all honesty, though, I don't know if RC is scum. Last time I played with RC we got into a shouting match too, though it ended mostly between me and DRK. I sort of get the feeling that he and I will be at each other's throats every time we play together.

[Idiotking]

Going to tell us why? Or are you just going with the flow?

[Idiotking]

Vote Count, Day 3

hiphop ( 1 ) - Sotty7
shotty to the body ( 0 )
fhqwhgads ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 2 ) - Pads - RayFrost
Idiotking ( 0 )
Xylthixlm ( 0 )
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Zakeri ( 0 )

RayFrost ( 8 ) - idiotking - SpyreX - Xylthixlm - roflcopter - popsofctown - hitogoroshi - Shotty to the Body - fhqwhgads

RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 3 ) - zakeri - hiphop - RedCoyote
Total Votes ( 14 )

With 14 alive, 8 needed to reach a majority.
Majority reached. Plurality will be lynched at 3:45pm EST Friday, December 4th

And yes, I do know that you said "reasons mentioned to death" or somesuch. What specific ones?

[Idiotking]

I didn't say it had to be new reasons. I just said that you had to say which reasons you agreed with. And I think the fact that you're not very forthcoming with info as-is means you both didn't really read and don't care to.

[Idiotking]

But I'm not. Why are you voting for him?

And if you've finished rereading, I'd like for you to give a synopsis of events since the start of D3. If you've actually read, you should have some idea of what's happened lately, right?

[Idiotking]

I call bullshit. You didn't read. I wanted a synopsis, maybe three sentences max. I wasn't expecting any more than a general idea of events. You didn't read.

[Idiotking]

I don't agree with your vote because you didn't give a reason for it besides an obvious go-with-the-flow statement. I want to know

specifically

why you are voting for Ray.

[Idiotking]

I love how it took you so long to come up with even that. Clearly if you were present to notice my statement and post, you'd have been able to post more quickly, yes? I still don't buy the whole "rereading" bit considering the fact that you are so determined to

not

give your reasons for doing

anything

.

[Idiotking]

@fqushasdchkqdab up there, obviously.

[Idiotking]

And yes, Ray should claim. He should have ages ago.

[Idiotking]

It's obvious I cannot please you. If you don't believe me, then vote me. I've obviously been lurking for days so I can come back now and clumsily try and convince you I've actually been reading.

Damnit, I must suck at being scum.

Real heartwrenching story, that. You're my new second-from-top pick.

[Idiotking]

usually =/= sometimes

[Idiotking]

Usually implies that it happens more often. Xyl said he didn't see a pattern, which implies that one doesn't really seem to happen more often than the other. So no, it wasn't an agreement.



(I don't even really know why I'm talking about this.)



By the way, folks, I'll be gone for most of tomorrow and the next day, but I'll post if I can.

[Idiotking]

Ray. I don't buy the claim. You didn't have any dealings any of the kills. You didn't ever say you suspected them.

And if Ray is not the dayvig (I don't think he is), the real one shouldn't claim.

Unvote

But there is an easy fix for this. We let the real dayvig vig Ray tomorrow. If Ray survives the night (he most likely won't if he's telling the truth) then he's dead tomorrow.

[Idiotking]

And

Vote fhqwhgads

It's not OMGUS if I actually have a reason for it and you don't.

[Idiotking]

That kinda goes along with the whole "I don't believe you" thing.

[Idiotking]

This is all assuming that Ray is in fact the SK and not scum. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, since the real SK (if there is one) wouldn't be able to counterclaim.

[Idiotking]

Nobody said that he'd have to be a daykilling scum. For all we know he could just be holding out to live one more night to make one last nightkill.

As it is, if he really IS the SK, I'm leaning toward killing him. Just because he says that he's rooting for the town doesn't mean that he really is.

[Idiotking]

Hito, why do you think I'm scum? Complete reasoning, please.

[Idiotking]

Why is my "bi-polar hop" extremely scummy? Would you rather I had given up? Sorry, if I'm gonna die I'm gonna go down fighting.

Ray has been posting pathetically for longer than the wagon has been on him. You're trying to bend things in a way that ties me to Ray, when there really is

nothing

for you to go on. Hell, RC's case against me was better than this.

And you need to look up the definition of "defeatist". I don't think you know what it means.

[Idiotking]

Yes, I'm denying it. Defeatist implies giving up. I didn't. As for passivity, I don't think it's wise to always beat one's brains out against a wall solely to be a stubborn jackass. I screwed up with the CSL thing by not following my instincts. But I also know it was my fault alone that I was on the wagon, and while I believed CSL to be scum, I should have given a replacement a chance. I didn't. I'm not going to argue what I don't believe.

As for the play-style shift, I don't think it's as big a leap as you think.

[Idiotking]

If there really is less than 24 hours left, I suppose you're right, it should be back on Ray.

Unvote

Vote RayFrost

Though don't think I'm going to forget your little meltdown, fqwoiupoiashdgzxcvkmn.

[Idiotking]

I don't think RC was one of the investigations. Early in D3 roflcopter voted for RC as well as called for him to be vigged/NK'd. Only after the charter flip did he decide RC had to be town.

[Idiotking]

But the flip was for that he was a sane cop. Why would he automatically think he was insane?

Am I missing something here?

[Idiotking]

@IK:

What do you think of Hip Hop now? A lot of your early posts were about him, do you still find him suspicious?

I have no idea, to be honest. Originally I thought he was suspicious, but I thought he did pretty well after D2 or so. Now with his absolute determination to brand RC as a SK, though, I don't know.

I also wanted to see if RC could be mafia, but if it's true that he had opposite reads from charter and RC and thought that he was insane, then his reversal means RC almost has to be town. Which means all of my leads from yesterday are shot.

I'm going to go back and reread over hito. Something about him is bothering me, but I don't know if it's his general playstyle or something specific.

[Idiotking]

I counted nine.

[Idiotking]

Vote Zakeri

Stop being lazy.

[Idiotking]

I get the feeling that we lynched our "vig" yesterday.

[Idiotking]

I think we've only had 1 daykiller except on the day charter died. I have no idea what happened then, but considering the fact that that was the

only

day with multiple daykills, I'm assuming that it was a one-time thing and had special circumstances surrounding it.

[Idiotking]

Spyrex, I think that hoopla was a vanilla townie.

[Idiotking]

And I think that was the hammer.

[Idiotking]

Hmm, you're right. Sorry, I'm used to it being at least 50% for a lynch.

[Idiotking]

God, I have to go back and reread too. This is just... *sigh*

And I guess now I think that we have a vig. Again. Whoeveritwasthatwelynchedyesterdaythatdidntpostanywaysoitsnotlikehemattered must have roleblocked a NKer at some point. This may or may not be useful.

[Idiotking]

Vote Count, Day 5

hiphop ( 0 )
shotty to the body ( 0 )
fhqwhgads ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 0 )
Pads ( 1 ) - SpyreX
popsofctown ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 0 )
Unvote ( 8 ) - Pads - popsofctown - idiotking - Shotty to the Body - Sotty7 - RedCoyote - hiphop - fhqwhgads
Total Votes ( 9 )

With 9 alive, 5 needed for a majority.
Deadline is December 23rd, 11am EST

The only person I see him opposing was hiphop. Now I shall reread hiphop.

[Idiotking]

Good Lord, that's the most blatant flip-flopping I've ever seen.

Vote Hiphop

A combination of his flip-flopping and his previous (and current) adamant claim that RC is scum, even though RC is almost certainly town.

[Idiotking]

I think RC, if indeed town, is tunneling me very hard. It seems that he's convinced I'm scum, and the admittance that I've "been under [his] watchful eye" since D1 points to this as well. If you watch anyone for that long, eventually you'll start suspecting them.

As it is, I'm still content with a Hiphop lynch.

[Idiotking]

Son of a bitch....

GO TOWN!!! GOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!