Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Sigh. Finished rereading. You people are evil, I hate youall, do you hear me?
Hiphop bothers me. Something about his posts (they're mostly one-line and have very little substance) makes me think he's just trying to float by without actually doing anything substantial. For example, his last two posts are more concerned with chiding people for word count rather than doing something useful. It just seems like active lurking to me, even though the game's only been going for this long.
I don't think Crypto is suspicious either, given my knowledge of his play style. He does tend to make a whole lot of pretty meaningless posts, though when he does make a meaningful one it is substantial.
I don't know about either ConfidAnon for SpyreX. I just... I can't get a read on either of them. Then again, I do tend to have difficulty seeing scumminess on rereads, so maybe I'll be able to get a picture of them now that I'm available to post.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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T'wasn't rolefishing. I think it's possible that hiphop could be a townie (regardless of role) just trying to stay alive long enough to get a bead on what's going on. I know I'm having similar problems, so I can see why he'd be under duress. However, if hiphop is used to playing large normal games, the active lurking is suspicious.Energetic Penguin wrote:
This seems to me like scum fishing for a power role.Idiotking wrote:Hiphop is active lurking. I can't decide if that's scummy enough to warrant a vote, though; it's possible that he's got a perfectly towny reason to lay low, though I don't know exactly what it could be.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Um... I was gone until this morning, you remember. And I prefer not to use my vote willy-nilly.Hoopla wrote:
Why haven't you put a vote down on anyone in 17 pages?Idiotking wrote:@Hoopla:
To hell with concision. I'm a wordy person. Get used to it.
And feel free to check my meta. I'm using the same phrases I've always used, and since your main problem with my posts seem to be my word choice, there's little I can say in my defense.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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That was kinda obviously in response to Hiphop.RayFrost wrote:
1. your reason to not move your vote at all is just really scummy ("I hate spiderman")Idiotking wrote:Care to explain why, or are you just going to ride on somebody else's case against me?
Really? A great deal of the town's information was concerned with Confid, and he wound up being a vanilla townie. Do you really think there's any useful information on D1, other than that there's a daykill role somewhere? I don't think so. I've got to be sure of a case before I put vote on someone. Right now, I don't see anything strong enough to convince me of2. the excuse you give of "not using your vote willy-nilly" kinda fails when it's page 18, past the RVS, and there is plenty of information to give at least ONE vote change.anything.
So you ARE riding on someone else's case against me. At least you're honest.3. what hoopla said, cuz hoopla is awesome.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Yeah... it kinda was. Note at what time the post was made and what Hiphop's avatar is.RayFrost wrote:
1. no... it wasn't obvious.
Did I say I was going to do that? Really? Where? When? I'm mulling what to do about hiphop. Do you have a problem with this? Do you think that I should just fling myself bodily forward, no thought or logic behind what I'm doing, and go blindly forth unto a maelstrom of conflicting opinions? No, I'm going to take the slow and steady way of doing things, thank-you-very-much. It lends itself to a lot fewer screw-ups.2. so you are just going to sit back, let the town make all the cases, not scumhunt, and then later jump on something that you feel will get somewhere? thanks for the info.
Name a single original point you've presented. Just one.3. Pretending that I don't have my own points is noted.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Educated guess? No. All I've heard for the last X number of pages is white noise. "Crypto's scummy" "SpyreX" is scummy" "Confid is scummy" "sigma is scummy" and no progress made on any of them save Confid getting daykilled. If there's so much information, why hasn't the town killed somebody yet? Hmm? Is it because there's a lot of noise and no real information? Hmm? If there really is any information it's hidden behind wall after wall of desperate witchhunting. This is why I dislike D1, and apparently in large normals the witchhunting is far, far, far worse than in small normals.
I'm going to go at my own pace, whether you like it or not. If you really hate it, lynch me. You're not going to make me rush no matter what you do.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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My my my, that's an amazing argument you have there, Ray. Simply stunning. I'm stunned.
Now.
The only other person who sticks out in my head is CSL. His posts mostly seem overly short, pointless, and moronic. I'm somewhat amazed he hasn't caught more heat for them. Asking Vi to make him an avatar? Commenting on Hoopla's repeatedly? And Maemuki's? What's the point of that?-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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The game you quoted from was such a spectacular disaster on my part that I try not to even acknowledge its existence.
In my more recent games, I've been far less inclined to blindly follow someone else's reasoning, particularly the last two I've finished.
And as a note on why I don't have any completed scum games, there's a very simple answer for this. Every single time I've gotten a mafia role, I've replaced out. I would rather actuallywina game as town before I seriously try my hand as scum, so I've always replaced out to give the scum team a chance.
As for random voting, yeah, I do that mostly so I don't have to deal with the consequences ofnotdoing it. I caught hell for just saying I didn't like random voting once, so I've gotten used to just going through the motions. Unfortunately, this time I missed the RVS entirely and had... 15? 16? pages to read through when I returned, and I didn't see anything particularly standing out besides CSL's pointless posts and hiphop's active lurking.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Hoopla wrote:
That's really bad. Being mafia is part of the game - you should NEVER replace out because you got a role you don't like.Idiotking wrote: And as a note on why I don't have any completed scum games, there's a very simple answer for this. Every single time I've gotten a mafia role, I've replaced out. I would rather actuallywina game as town before I seriously try my hand as scum, so I've always replaced out to give the scum team a chance.
It's not so much that I don't like getting scum (I kinda enjoy being scum on another site I frequent). It's the fact that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I don't know how to be scum on this site. It's more for the sake of the scumteam than anything else. I join a game, play for a few days, and freeze. I can't think of what to do, so I do nothing. And when that happens, I can only replace out. Hell, it's not even that I haven't tried. It's that I never succeed in overcoming that freeze.Hoopla wrote:
That's really bad. Being mafia is part of the game - you should NEVER replace out because you got a role you don't like.Idiotking wrote: And as a note on why I don't have any completed scum games, there's a very simple answer for this. Every single time I've gotten a mafia role, I've replaced out. I would rather actuallywina game as town before I seriously try my hand as scum, so I've always replaced out to give the scum team a chance.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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I'm not trying to give excuses, just my reasons. I know I'm in the wrong here.Hoopla wrote: 1) Replacements are hard enough to find as it, without people leaving for role related reasons.
2) If you ever replace out in the future for genuine reasons it could incriminate your replacement, and cause wifom guess games about why you left which detracts from scumhunting.
3) You learn from your mistakes. You're never going to improve if you don't play the game.
You have no excuses for pussying out and making the game less fun for people.
I figured that giving the scumteam a better chance for survival was ethical enough. I don't try and intentionally screw games up.popsofctown wrote: Agreed on all points. Idiotking, replacing out of a game for those reasons is unethical. I'mhopingyou just didn't understand what is and isn't a good reason to replace out of the game, and are usually an ethical person.
I'll try to find some. I don't keep track of them.imaginality wrote: IK can you point to any completed games you replaced out as scum?-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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As it is, Ray really did seem to want to pressure me based on Hoopla's case and nothing else. His "reasoning" during my argument with him was faulty, given that he didn't have a foundation for anything he was saying.
1 is clearly bogus. I think he was just trying to come up with a better reason than "Oh, Hoopla's right".RayFrost wrote:
1. your reason to not move your vote at all is just really scummy ("I hate spiderman")
2. the excuse you give of "not using your vote willy-nilly" kinda fails when it's page 18, past the RVS, and there is plenty of information to give at least ONE vote change.
3. what hoopla said, cuz hoopla is awesome.
2 is a restatement of what Hoopla had already said.
3 is... pathetic, really. It really is just saying "Oh, Hoopla's right".
And then he goes on an tries to argue these points and fails miserably because they aren't his. Which bothers me.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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I like how you say this without commenting on the fact that I repeatedly tried to point out that it was an assumption. I made it very clear that I thought it was stupid for people to vote for that reason.imaginality wrote: I'm also keeping a close eye on IdiotKing - his fence-sittingy post (652) gave him ample room to join the wagon but makes him look good if it goes nowhere.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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I find that CSL is a good choice for a lynch, given the fact that if saved until late-game, such useless people give scum an easy route to pressure/lynch.elvis_knits wrote:
Your vote had to impress me because you said you don't vote willy-nilly and it's your first vote of the game.
I don't like being involved in pointless bickering. It's not really going anywhere until there's solid fact to draw from. Such solid fact isn't available on D1 (well, except for a daykiller role in this instance). So I propose we lynch a useless person today rather than run the risk of getting screwed for letting them live later on.CSL doesn't really seem town to me, so in that sense I guess it's an okay vote. But there's like a hella other stuff going on more important than CSL, and you aren't very involved.
Ok, I get it. I'll leave sarcasm out of every single post I ever make.Also you voted CSL and said "are you happy now, ray/hoopla?" like the vote was more to please them than because you actually thought he was scum.
Are you happy now?
I've been pretty consistent in my opinion that crypto's acting normally, as crypto goes. Where have I flip-flopped?Combined with my earlier dislike of how you said we can't learn anything from the confidwagon/kill. And you've really flip flipped a lot on crypto.
And when did I say "we can't learn anything from the confidwagon"? When did I use those words? Hmm?-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Sarcasm.hiphop wrote:With my understanding from your post, only you can be wordy.
That's a reasonable statement to make. You'd be stupid to think I was town for that reason.Also forgive me for not saying you are town, because you did not ask for a replacement, for it is all a bunch of wifom.
I don't know. From the way people are shifting around, we could be lynched in the next five minutes for all I know. I hate D1.However you are playing to your town meta from the last game, except you don't have any case this time. Do you believe that you will get a case before the lynch, or are you just hoping for one?-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Mod, sorry to bother you, but you have me both voting for CSL and not voting.
I don't really think it would be fair to lynch CSL before his replacement arrives. I think that CSL was just overwhelmed by this game and couldn't handle it, just like Budja. If this is true, then he would have reacted the same regardless of his alignment.
As it is, my vote will now have to go to the second-most-useless player, Energetic_Penguin. His ISO read is... heh... quite laughable. He has 11 posts, all of them woefully lacking in substance.
Therefore,
Vote Energetic_Penguin
Would using the phrase "post or die" here be a false dilemma?-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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I had this post made shortly before D2 started, and damned if I'm not gonna post it anyway.
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Shit. I knew I'd feel bad about not giving a replacement a shot. Oh well... what's done is done.
Now, I finally get to do something useful, sort of, maybe. Here's a list of the top bandwagons of D1:
ConfidAnon ( 9 ) - sigma - CSL - roflcopter - elvis_knits - Pads - Vi - Sotty7 - charter - Energetic Penguin
Energetic Penguin ( 5 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality - Vi
crypto ( 4 ) - Hoopla - elvis_knits - Energetic Penguin - roflcopter
CSL ( 15 ) - RedCoyote - sigma - Pads - crypto - popsofctown - roflcopter - Infinis - shotty to the body - charter - hiphop - idiotking - hoopla - imaginality - Vi - Sotty7
Actually, Charter, roflcopter, Vi, sigma, Pads, and Sotty7 were all on both the Confid and CSL wagons. I get the feeling that at least half of these folks are scum, if not more.
Nobody is on all the wagons (though there may have been some votes/unvotes that changed things), but I do note that Vi and roflcopter are on three of them, and that Vi voted for 8 different people throughout the game. To me, this looks like he swapped back and forth between players, trying to get something to stick and then push it. I get the same feeling from elvis_knits, who voted 5 times and lurked through the majority of the Confid situation. She was also one of the ones who blindly switched over to crypto after he said that there were two scumgroups. Then immediately afterwards, once it became clear that crypto had some basis for what he was saying, she essentially said "oh, sorry, I wasn't thinking" in ISO 23-25. Wouldn't it have been a good idea to analyze the sitation on her own instead of blindly follow charter's statement? I also note that her votes were always on the "popular" lynches and almost always comingaftersomeone else had presented a case. This is just bad play on her part, and I think it indicates that she doesn't really care who gets lynched, so long as someone does. As a result,
Vote elvis_knits-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Voting is not scummy, unless it is only on popular targets, and only after other people have made their cases. Bandwagoning is not scummy, unless it is only on popular targets. Changing your mind is not scummy, unless it's because you didn't think anything through in the first place and just hopped on a bandwagon for no goddamn good reason.Xylthixlm wrote: Voting is not scummy. Bandwagoning is not scummy. Changing your mind is not scummy.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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By popular target I mean people who are considered scum by the loudest players, and usually the majority. Bandwagons don't have to be on such popular targets.Xylthixlm wrote: Okay. So... in what cases will bandwagoningnotbe on a "popular target"?
And to me it looks like Vi just wants to keep me alive until late-game so he can use me as an easy lynch target. Aside from his arrogant "lol hes a nub" attitude, he has no particular reason to say that I'm just an easy target, and therefore not scum. Why are you so hellbent on not making a case against me, even if I am scummy, Vi?-
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I fully intend to, if I live till then.Vi wrote:
This is the same reason that I avoided the CSL wagon yesterday until I could not avoid it. And in the end, the CSL lynch turned out to be a good thing - we got rid of a majority-vote distraction to the Town and got three flips, all of which were pretty revealing. After seeing that and Xyl's process-of-policy-lynch in BoTaM, I'm reconsidering my position on early-game lynches. For right now though, if you would rather I wagon you for everyone's sake instead of pursuing people I think are obvious scum, you can keep waiting and being disappointed. In the event that you are alive in the late game, you're welcome to bring that accusation up again if and when it happens.
Yes... that game. The first game I ever played on this site. The darkest hour of my Mafia career.... *sigh*As far as insulting your play and meta goes, I will absolutely hold this game over your head.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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The only contact that Ray and imaginality had was one (very brief) conversation in which imaginality said Ray was ever-so-slightly-scummy, and where Ray said he'd completely forgotten about imaginality. Then they proceeded to stop talking to each other again.
Beyond the appeal to emotion, I'm bothered by Ray's disinterest in unique scumhunting (his first discussion with me was completely based off of Hoopla's argument, even though he tried passing it off as his own), his inability to form opinions on controversial subjects (Vi, for instance), and as you and RedCoyote hinted at, Ray's 978 and 980 are sad. If I wasn't voting for elvis, I'd probably be voting for Ray, followed by Vi.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Ok.
For the CSL wagon: I'm fully prepared to take any heat I deserve for being on it. I was correct in thinking that a replacement would be a good idea, but I also agreed of my own free will to remain on the wagon and kill him. If you think this is scummy, then my sincerest apologies. I know I'm responsible for my vote.
As for 'connections': The only one you've proposed that I can see, RC, is a 'connection' with elvis, and you say it's bussing/distancing. This indicates that I've had nothing but negative connections with scum. Do you really think that I could be buddies with elvis simply as a result of only very negative interactions? I think you're really reaching here. If you suspect me, at least come up with better reasons than this.-
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What exactly do you expect me to do? Rant and rave about how I was so totally right and was pressed into service against my will? See, it's a funny catch-22. If I take responsibility, I'm doomed. If I don't take responsibility, I'm equally doomed. So if I'm to be doomed no matter what I do, I might as well be honest and have a clear conscience. Though I'm betting that the after-game commentary on my play will be nothing short of withering.-
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It's not an appeal to emotions, or at least not intentionally one. It's more of a realization that I can't defend on this point, so I'll have to move on to something else, like pointing out the connections bit. Which there are none of, by the way, except for purely negative interactions.
I also want to point out the fact that if you (the town) keep lynching people based on the fact that "oh dude this guy is scum and hes dead and we should so totally lynch the people he said were scum cuz his buddys in there im sure of it" we're not really going to get anywhere.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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There's nothing I can say about imaginality because I wasn't the one who did the thing that makes me "scummy". Coupled with the elvis thing and the CSL lynch, I really have nothing I can actually defend against. Ho hum.
Before I die, though, I'd like to say that Ray is still most likely scum, and RC is looking that way too. Not for OMGUS, but more because his case against me sucks. In reality his case can only encompass the CSL thing, and voting for me because of my actions on a single bandwagon, in this game which is now 55 pages long, is very weak.
I also wanna point out that throughout this game I've been on most people's scumlists, so mafia could have just had me on their lists to go along with general opinion.-
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Idiotking wrote: Before I die, though, I'd like to say that Ray is still most likely scum, and RC is looking that way too. Not for OMGUS, but more because his case against me sucks. In reality his case can only encompass the CSL thing, and voting for me because of my actions on a single bandwagon, in this game which is now 55 pages long, is very weak.Idiotking wrote:The only contact that Ray and imaginality had was one (very brief) conversation in which imaginality said Ray was ever-so-slightly-scummy, and where Ray said he'd completely forgotten about imaginality. Then they proceeded to stop talking to each other again.
Beyond the appeal to emotion, I'm bothered by Ray's disinterest in unique scumhunting (his first discussion with me was completely based off of Hoopla's argument, even though he tried passing it off as his own), his inability to form opinions on controversial subjects (Vi, for instance), and as you and RedCoyote hinted at, Ray's 978 and 980 are sad. If I wasn't voting for elvis, I'd probably be voting for Ray, followed by Vi.-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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And I just wanted to point out that as with roflcopter bringing up the imaginality scumlist, several peopleSpyreX wrote:A multi-word apology doesn't do it for me. Especially with the "you want me to strangle myself" after.
I'm definitely not subscribing to the elvis list being a rosetta stone for scum.
However the bad-dog pose with the puppy dog eyes does little for me.
And painting all the votes as if they are a function of that, well.
Unvote, Vote: IKareusing dead-mafia scumlists as "rosetta stone".-
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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Idiotking Mafia Scum
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RayFrost wrote: Also, I'm trying a new playstyle so I can get in the head of town-lurkers like mae.
It helps.
In response to:
Shotty to the Body wrote:RayFrost is lurking like a beast here, even more scummily than some others. Rayfrost chimes in every now and again with some fluff (reread his ISO, it's more fluff than content at this point) and then vanishes. Hell, I knew something was up with him when I FORGOT him in my first post, he's skimming in under the radar fantastically. At the very least I would like to have him get in the game and if we have to force him to do that with votes so be it.-
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