/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)
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Thesp Supersaint
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/I-have-received-my-Role-PM-and-I-am-ready-to-play-with-all-of-these-nice-people."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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alexhans, what's so interesting about even numbers?
BridgesAndBaloons, do you enjoy having town roles or scum roles more? On an unrelated note, are you happy?
charter, have you missed me?
Claus, are you scum?
ekiM, who's one of your scumbuddies?
elvis_knits, do you find happiness in receiving role PMs?
Herodotus, what do you think of random voting?
iamausername, what do you think of self-voting?
inHimshallibe, do you swear by all that is holy that if you lurk, we can murder you?
Kmd4390, are you scum?
Ojanen, why did you eat breakfast after seeing the murder? Doesn't the sight of blood make your stomach turn?
populartajo, why'd you do it?
roflcopter, what do you think of question-asking in general?
SerialClergyman, how much have you played mafia in real life? What's one of your real life tells?
Shabba, magic traaaaaaaaaaain?
VP Baltar, can you PM your scumbuddies and let them know we've started?
Xylthixlm, can non-alpaca be scum? Or are the scum simply alpacas in hiding?
Yosarian2, why can't you tell the difference between the first post and the 44th post?
zu_Faul, why? I thought we were friends."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Thesp Supersaint
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I'm sorry - I'm not as creative as I wish I could be. I had to come up with 19 questions! I think I had some overlap, too. Well, let's think - on a scale of 2 to 17, how crafty are you?Claus wrote:
I'm sad that you couldn't think of a more interesting question for meThesp wrote: Claus, are you scum?
Nope. Kinda happy about it.Claus wrote:No I'm not scum. How about you?
This is an excellent question. I will get my crack team of investigators to find an answer to this, and report back when they've reached a consensus.Claus wrote:Also, why are you not voting Yos?
zu_Faul with both, because he's voting for me, and I'd want to make sure I get past any protection.Claus wrote:Better question for thesp. You got two dayvigs that you must spend immediately. Who do you pick?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Thesp Supersaint
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Ever so slightly more likely to be scum, but the distinction (if any) is likely darn close to negligible, and I don't have anything to actually back that up besides a best guess, so I don't hold any weight to my own opinion.roflcopter wrote:thesp, do you think a (presumably) random vote which is made with no additional text whatsoever is more likely to come from scum or town?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Thesp Supersaint
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Nope.ekiM wrote:You don't like random voting, Thesp?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Thesp Supersaint
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Crud - I thought I had posted this line of thought, but I apparently didn't - retyping now.
I'm flattered!charter wrote:
Of course! That's why I put your name on the people I want to play with list.Thesp wrote:charter, have you missed me?
Gutsy call.ekiM wrote:I am deeply concerned by the continued absence of inHimshallibe, Kmd4390, Ojanen, populartajo, and Shabba. I'd wager there's at least one scum amongst those five players.
I don't necessarily, but if all of my questions are on meta-theory, it's too easy for it to become a distraction from what's at hand.Ojanen wrote:
I pretended it was ketchup. And sausages are yummy.Thesp wrote:Ojanen, why did you eat breakfast after seeing the murder? Doesn't the sight of blood make your stomach turn?
Why do you prefer flavor related questions to theory related ones?
I like you.VP Baltar wrote:
Done! Thanks for the reminder.Thesp wrote:VP Baltar, can you PM your scumbuddies and let them know we've started?
I've taken to it recently - I like it!populartajo wrote:Thesp, do you always ask questions like that?
This is a good question.iamausername wrote:What was the purpose of posting this sentence:
?alexhans wrote:I have my own theories about what roles may be in this game but I've learned that setup speculation this early is pretty useless.
What gave you that impression? Please be specific.BridgesAndBaloons wrote:After reading the first post, I thought there were 4 mafia + (optional) traitor too. The fact that E_k didn't come to the same conclusion as me is weird.
For the record, I don't concur with the line of thinking that says kmd3490 has made a slip with regards to the number of scum. I don't find the Xylthixlm wagon that compelling right now either.
This seems incredibly superfluous.Xylthixlm wrote:Balance suggests we probably have four scum, or five including a traitor, or five including a pair of mafia lovers, or five balanced by a bunch of town power roles.
Semirandom assignment suggests we can't assume balance.
So... probably four or five scum. Anything more is overthinking it.
Vote: BridgesAndBaloons. Most likely to be scum by far."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I take it my sarcasm didn't translate well.Xylthixlm wrote:Guessing there's at least on scum in five players is not a gutsy call."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm confused - I don't think there's been a "slip" of any sort on mafia numbers. I don't think BridgesAndBaloons is scum for positing a particular number of scum.VP Baltar wrote:@Thesp-why would you vote BnB instead of Kmd over the conclusion of how many scum are in the game when Kmd was the first person to give a definitive number?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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1 - Sadly, no. They are still working him over, though, but they are more than a little intimidated by his giant sock puppet monster. (Unfortunately, my crack team of investigators is thimble-sized.)Claus wrote:I would like to know a few things about you thesp:
1- did your crack team of investigators come to any conclusion about Yos?
2- Which of the answers to your questions would you say were signs of pro-town/anti-town alignment? Which were interesting in other ways?
3- I'm interested in your scumread of BaB, would you elaborate?
4- What do you think about E_K?
2 - Any indicators were only very mild if at all useful. I found several answers humorous, though.
3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.
4 - I think she's town and wrong.
I appreciate your close reading.Claus wrote:Thesp:
I'm get a few scummy vibes from thesp - he's playing with his cards too close to his chest.
Sure!inHimshallibe wrote:Thesp, if I lurk, kill me. Can I have the same call from you?
Why bother?kmd3490 wrote:Really though, I'd say 4 or 5. Still thinking 4 plus a traitor.
Not much, though I like getting the talking going some. (Not sure how much ended up being necessary on my part.) I increasingly despise random voting.populartajo wrote:Thesp any conclusions of your questionnaire? What is your opinion of random voting?
I think kmd3490 was making a semi-random-semi-informed prediction as to who was scum just for giggles/reactions/boldness. It doesn't seem so extraordinary (though I can see why it might appear that way).populartajo wrote:
Tell me what made you think that.Thesp wrote:For the record, I don't concur with the line of thinking that says kmd3490 has made a slip with regards to the number of scum. I don't find the Xylthixlm wagon that compelling right now either.
Like what?populartajo wrote:Bab wagon is better but still need to evaluate some things.
:goodposting:charter wrote:Shabba/inHimshallibe, why do you, less than a half hour after Xyl calls out people for lurking (including both of you), pop up to make empty posts?
I like the BridgesAndBaloons wagon - needs more participants. I'd also like to hear what VP Baltar's thoguhts are on things."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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You think both saw each other's response and backed eash other up?roflcopter wrote:i get the feeling kmd/bridges found themselves in a 4 person scumgroup, assumed that the sample role pms would simply state as much and therefore presented the information. upon discovering that the sample pms actually account for up to five scum, they are both now struggling to come up with reasons why they assumed 4, with such charming excuses as "i thought there were only 16 players." really? you haven't been paying attention to the more than a month long game placement process and announcement which very clearly indicated you had been placed in a 20 person game with only people who you were interested in playing with, or at the very least were not adverse to playing with? i don't buy it.
I find myself increasingly distrustful of Xylthixlm.
I didn't say anything because I didn't want to speak for kmd3490. (His response is consistent with what I had thought he was originally communicating.)Kmd4390 wrote:Why didn't anyone say this sooner? Like why didn't KMD say this sooner when I proved serious and voted him for this?? WTF.
Which reaction?Ojanen wrote:I'm not thinking Kmd's slip was a probable legitimate slip after reading all the stuff but FoS: Kmd for the reaction.
Happy birthday, inHimshallibe!
QFT - it extends beyond forum mafia as well - Shabba is still learning the nuances of the game. I agree on pushing, I don't think there's strong indicators of anything either way yet.roflcopter wrote:shabba's apparent lack of forum mafia experience gives me pause.
besides, a shabba wagon would take the wind out of the bridgewagon's sails, and that would be a real bummer since we should be lynching him pronto.
While you are correct about this, your deflection of the BridgesAndBaloons wagon is noted.Herodotus wrote:As far as Shabba is concerned, there are multiple players who are lurking a lot harder. Does anyone even remember that there are players in this game with the usernames "SerialClergyman" and "iamausername"?
vote: iamausername
Don't be afraid to be wrong. Heck, I've even been wrong once or twice before. (Read that as: many, many times.) At some point, you have to give it your best guess, and find out if you're right or wrong. Don't give in to analysis paralysis! (AP will be the topic of my next essay on mafia play.)Shabba wrote:This is my first forum mafia experience and I don't want to start it out being wrong and lynching an innocent person. I'm trying to be overly cautious.
I still <3 the BridgesAndBaloons wagon and support getting a claim from her before we string her up."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I strongly disagree with this. We've had slightly under 96 hours (four days) of day. In that time period, we've had almost 11 pages of posts. If posting was maintained at this level (which it may or may not), we'd be around 43 pages of dicsussion by then. I'm firmly of the belief that 43 pages of discussion is antagonistic to the town's purposes. If people want to go lynch someone else, so be it. But if people think you're the best lynch (as I do), we should go ahead and lynch you. Sure, poke some lurkers as you like to find out where they lie, but unnecessarily dragging out the day is inherently harmful to the town's ends.BridgesAndBaloons wrote:Deadline is September 1. Can you give me until August 28 at least? This seems fair. Town has nothing to lose from keeping me alive for a couple more weeks.
I'm super happy with a BridgesAndBaloons lynch, especially with how Herodotus is acting."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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This is a good question.Xylthixlm wrote:
Who else is scummy?VP Baltar wrote:Also, if iamausername is not scum I'll eat my hat (see photo)."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm curious about this - whyfor?Xylthixlm wrote:I can't believe I'm doing this
unvote
I echo the thoughts of "I have no problem with BridgesAndBaloons dying right now", and I don't like the thought of waiting until even Saturday. BAB's got plenty of contribution.
Also, vig please take care of Herodotus tonight. Thanks!"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Ojanen wrote:Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)?Thesp wrote:3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.
Also, I think Herodotus outed himself as B&B's partner."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'd failed to note this earlier - this is good.elvis_knits wrote:A vanilla claim from a scummy person should cement their lynch, honestly. I mean, if you're not lynching a vanilla, who would you go through with the lynch on? Keep the claimed vanilla, kill the claimed doc? Because we think scum would fake a power role?
...
Also, tell me what kind of claim you would go through on the lynch of. BEcause if you won't lynch a vanilla claim, who are you going to lynch?
Why? (This bothers me.)alexhans wrote:Hey... Nobody DARE hammer before I get to post...
B&B is at L-2 if I'm not mistaken.
See:Kmd4390 wrote:
Wait, how is he outing himself?Thesp wrote:Ojanen wrote:Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)?Thesp wrote:3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.
Also, I think Herodotus outed himself as B&B's partner.Thesp wrote:
While you are correct about this, your deflection of the BridgesAndBaloons wagon is noted.Herodotus wrote:As far as Shabba is concerned, there are multiple players who are lurking a lot harder. Does anyone even remember that there are players in this game with the usernames "SerialClergyman" and "iamausername"?
vote: iamausername
Absolutely. Why live with just one wagon? Seriously? I think he took elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 (which was based on the supposed "slip"), thought he'd be able to exploit it, and attacked her for it when her suspicion is perfectly reasonable (though I think she's wrong about it). His manouver appeared to me to be more like pressing an advantage rather than trying to find scum.Herodotus wrote:
This is awful. If he just wanted to exploit suspicion, he probably would have voted KMD (unless KMD is his buddy.) No one had stated any suspicions of Elvis over the number of scum issue before BaB's vote, and only one person was voting for her. Your idea is that he left the wagon that was at 6 in order to exploit suspicions that had not yet been stated on someone who was at 1?Thesp wrote:I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.
whatHerodotus wrote:Thesp appears that he may bussing, and this is the strongest point for BaB-scum as opposed to BaB-townie-who-is-reacting-poorly. But I think he's a better lynch.
So out of ~11 people, at least two are scum? This doesn't seem like much of a bold prediction,Herodotus wrote:
What I meant was:VP Baltar wrote:
This is a really confusing statement. What sort of interest do you have in the wagon? Do you think BnB is a good lynch or not? If not, why are you not actively trying to persuade the town elsewhere?Heradotus wrote:There is too much support for a BaB lynch for me to believe there aren't/weren't multiple scum on his wagon. Not that this makes him town, but I'm more interested in the wagon.
I'm not sure whether BaB is town or scum.
I'm pretty sure that among the people voting him now or having unvoted him recently, there are more than one scum. I feel it best to scumhunt from among the voters.especiallywhen you feel like bussing is likely here.
I rarely think that explaining my initial vote (especially right away) is productive. I'm always interested to see who agrees with me and why, especially when they don't necessarily get to use my reasons for voting (unless they happen to agree with me). I think this information is ultimately useful.Ojanen wrote:What was the reason you didn't want to tell why you voted for him at that time?
This is correct.elvis_knits wrote:
I'm not exactly sure, because I find Thesp's comment a little confusing, but I think that Thesp means that "BaB was trying to exploit MY (elvis's) suspicion on the number of people (the slip, the 4 scum + 1 traitor thing)." Which means Thesp thinks BaB saw my suspicion and thought he could use it to make me look scummy. At least that is how I took it. It is not dependent on other people having expressed suspicion on me. We should probably get Thesp to clarify.Herodotus wrote:
This is awful. If he just wanted to exploit suspicion, he probably would have voted KMD (unless KMD is his buddy.) No one had stated any suspicions of Elvis over the number of scum issue before BaB's vote, and only one person was voting for her. Your idea is that he left the wagon that was at 6 in order to exploit suspicions that had not yet been stated on someone who was at 1?Thesp wrote:3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.
Yes.elvis_knits wrote:As scum, have you ever claimed vanilla?
This is a good question. Looks like it was answered here:populartajo wrote:Why is Hero avoiding the bab wagon and voting Thesp using babscum as an excuse?Herodotus wrote:It's the other way around. BaBscum is a consequence of Thespscum. But I am now thinking this connection may be weaker than I thought.What specifically makes it look like one scum interacting with another scum to you?
Looks like you answered it, though I think the manner in which you arrived to "it looks like Thesp is bussing" is weird to me, to say the least.
I fully support the Ekim pressure, for this and other reasons.Claus wrote:@Ekim
The reasons for finding Ekim scummy are pretty straightforward. Ikem has lurked during most of the game, and still, managed to hop on the two biggest wagons: Xyl, on post 82 (5th vote), and BaB, on post 142 (6th vote).
On his Xyl vote, he also waved his hand at 5 players, calling them lurking scum. Which he cleared as a joke. On his BaB vote (his next vote after the Xyl vote), he makes a bunch of light questions to players, and doesn't follow up in any of those questions (although he does go V/LA 24 hours later).
Hopping on big bandwagons without contributing to the game is a pretty textbook scumtell, and the fact that very few people are pushing Ekim for it is another signal of scummyness: If he was town, I can see scum making a case on him early and go for a "righteous myslinch".
The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached it felt different from the manner you and others did. I didn't like the elvis_knits wagon either way.Claus wrote:A bunch of small nothings, then his post (2 days later) he finally explains his accusation on BnB, saying that he suspects him for trying to "exploit E_K's suspicion of the number of scum". At that time, I found it funny because I (and others) also attacked E_K for her "slip" attack on KMD, and still Thesp did not list us as scum, or comment, or anything like that.
Sorry I missed those. I jested about Yosarian2 earlier because I didn't have much of a line of thinking on him at all. I still don't - I find him largely uninteresting. My answer re: my initial questions:Claus wrote:Also, Thesp dodges my other questions ("what do you think of Yos? and "what were your questions useful for?")
...is fairly straightforward, I'm not sure how else I can answer it without being distracting.Thesp wrote:2 - Any indicators were only very mild if at all useful. I found several answers humorous, though.
The biggest thing for me since is that I haven't seen anything from BridgesAndBaloons to dissuade me that my suspicion was not well founded. (Also, see Herodotus.) I'm a big believer of the line of thinking that scum players do not ooze scumminess with every post they make, nor are scum flamingly more obvious every time they post. I'm more minimalist like that.Claus wrote:Still, there is one big problem with this: 200 posts later, pushing the wagon every big post he makes, I would expect a town player to have more reasons to lynch his main suspect.
I'm not wild about the Kmd3490-as-scum line of thinking.
How do you think this fits/doesn't fit/other with his already stated approach of slowing bandwagons down?elvis_knits, re:zu_faul wrote:He is on the vote-elvis-to-defend-kmd train. Also he keeps raining on the parade of every other wagon, while simultaneously not explaining why none of my explanations or further actions cause him to reevaluate me at all.
He should be considered.
This is correct.Herodotus, re: me wrote:(a) He hasn't seemed interested in BaB posting his suspicions. Granted, BaB has been stalling, but no one else would have known he would.
Being afraid to be wrong (and being afraid to place a vote and/or lynch someone) can paralyze a town if they don't just take a stab and hope that they're right at some point. When will you place a vote? Three days before the deadline? At some point, you need to move. Don't let analysis paralysis win. What's kept you from voting with your last post?Shabba wrote:After I posted, voicing my concerns about mislynching on day one, Thesp said to me:
He knows what a newbie I am, and I guess when he started trying to persuade me to lose my fear of "being wrong" (i.e. lynching town), I started to look at him in a scummy light. (Thesp, if you were just being nice to me, i'm sorry! )Thesp wrote: Don't be afraid to be wrong. Heck, I've even been wrong once or twice before. (Read that as: many, many times.) At some point, you have to give it your best guess, and find out if you're right or wrong. Don't give in to analysis paralysis! (AP will be the topic of my next essay on mafia play.)
I still <3 the BridgesAndBaloons wagon and support getting a claim from her before we string her up.
FoS: inHimshallibe, Thesp
FOS: alexhans.
Needs more BridgesAndBaloons lynch."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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There is a practical limit to this which has a point of diminishing returns for this, which is rapidly accelerated in larger games.zu_Faul wrote:
I am not stopping the wagons.elvis_knits wrote:
Can you explain your approach more and how it helps you tell allignments? Because I don't understand how it's scum hunting to stop wagons on people who you've said yourself are not entirely townie. How do you get info this way?zu_Faul wrote:
This is my usual scum-hunting tactic. It works pretty well.elvis_knits wrote:zufaul - seems to stop progress for no reason (slowing attacks on bridges, shabba, discouraging herodotus's lurker hunt, reprimanding xyl for too much vote hopping... these all impede the progress of a game. Pressuring people gives us better reads, so what zu is doing is bad).
(/in before people accusing me of hypocrisy. It is much different from halting the game like BAB wants to, as what he is doing does not provide us with any more information, while slowing the impetus (on people who are not scummy) is doing so.)
Slowing down something allows you to look at it more closely. I think it is quite simple."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I think it's far less "necessary" in a large game than a small one (if it's necessary at all), and it is likely (and so far appears to me to be)counterproductive today.zu_Faul wrote:
Like everything, it is only good in moderation. You think I overdid it already?Thesp wrote:
There is a practical limit to this which has a point of diminishing returns for this, which is rapidly accelerated in larger games.zu_Faul wrote:Slowing down something allows you to look at it more closely. I think it is quite simple.
Can you give me a compelling reason why I'd care what his suspicions are when I think he's likely enough to be scum so as to want him lynched?Herodotus wrote:
Okay, now why? I can see a couple scummy motives, but only one possible pro-town motive is coming to mind -- that being that the lynch on BaB-scum could lose steam. This seems improbable, given the high number of players who want to lynch him.Thesp wrote:
This is correct.Herodotus, re: me wrote:(a) He hasn't seemed interested in BaB posting his suspicions. Granted, BaB has been stalling, but no one else would have known he would.
This is a good post in every way.elvis_knits wrote:
I agree. He gave a scum list. That's what people wanted. It was nonsensical as expected.roflcopter wrote:i'm confused. why isn't bridges dead yet?
Now we need:
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This made me LOL. =PPookyTheMagicalBear wrote:lets lynch charter, but not tell him why.
vote charter
I came in wanting to vote for VP Baltar, but I agree with his push on SerialClergyman.
I disagree with this.VP Baltar wrote:
It's rather arbitrary to say you support the claim of someone who is at L-2. It's pretty much guaranteed to happen.iam wrote:Why do you think I supported the claim, if that had nothing to do with my vote?
I agree with this - I'm not feeling elvis_knits or Kmd3490 as scum.Ojanen wrote:I feel like Yos is putting gasoline to a town-town fight and I don't like it.
roflcopter, voting for Kmd3490? Really?
I like pressure on ekiM.
I don't like the built-in out here.iamausername wrote:I need to reread, but this seems like a good place to park my vote in the mean time.
Vote: SerialClergyman
There are too many people I'd be happy voting for - I'm going to be unproductive and vote none of them right now. I'll fix that soon."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Catching up now, my apologies. The past 8 days have been rotten - perhaps the worst of the year."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I've seen too many times when people have been pushed close to lynch, but haven't because a majority of people had not expressed a desire for such a person to claim (in their opinion). I think supporting a claim in such an instance is a good thing, especially since it helps preclude this stalling defense.VP Baltar wrote:
Based on what? It's especially true of the BaB wagon yesterday given the number of people not voting, but saying they would be willing to support.Thesp wrote:I disagree with this.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not (I think it is), can you enlighten me?PookyTheMagicalBear, re:Kmd3490 wrote:solid logic there
I'm liking Xylthixlm more as town.Xylthixlm wrote:
Sort-of agree, sort-of disagree. Unvoting because the claim was vanilla is bad, definitely, but there may be other reasons. Do you think that Kmd dropped BaB just because he was vanilla, or do you think there were other reasons?Yosarian2 wrote:Bandwagoning someone to a claim, and then trying to drop the wagon and bandwagon someone else once they claim vanilla, is a scum tell, especally on day 1. Those kind of tactics, repeated bandwagon-to-a-claim stuff, are just the easiest way for a scum to flush out town power roles.
I don't like this. At all.SerialClergyman wrote:Plus I've never been one for the first day(s) anyway.
Note to self - review IAAUN/SC on a later day.
VP Baltar needs to die.
I've seen the term "chainsawing" thrown around a bit, and I thought I had a sense of what it meant, but my thoughts weren't consistent with what seems to be expressed by it. Can someone who is familiar with the term as it's being used explain what is meant by "chainsawing"? Thanks.
This feels like quite a reach.Yosarian2 wrote:
So, what, you're rolefishing now? FOS: SerialClergyman5) I particularly like this from rofl:
Unless you've got some knowledge about Yos2 that I don't have, looks like you're doing exactly the same thing.rofl wrote:serial is chainsawing for kmd hard, and at this point attacking yos is a scumtell.
It's running out.Ekim wrote:
Patience.Elvis wrote:ekiM -- Who do you think is scum? I have no idea who you are suspicious of.
You haven't demonstrated this at all. (I also disagree with your conclusion.)Ekim wrote:Sigh. A scum tell is an action that a scum player is more likely to take than a town player in the same situation.
You asked me if [trying to undermine a line of thought that only damages you if you are scum] is a scumtell. A scum player is much more motivated to do so than a town player, so it is a scum tell.
Are you bothered by it?Ekim wrote:I wonder why nobody is bothered that they don't know what PookyTheMagicalBear's suspicions are?
This.elvis_knits wrote:
I wonder why you accused people of not accusing Pooky rather than just accusing pooky yourself.ekiM wrote:I wonder why nobody is bothered that they don't know what PookyTheMagicalBear's suspicions are?
This is fairly accurate (though not in that order), though I'm increasingly uncomfortable about Yosarian2. His approval of the SerialClergy wagon makes me uncomfortable about that wagon. I also don't like alexhans/PookyTheMagicalBear, but I'm torn by my natural love for Pooky and personal distatste with lynching people immediately upon entry into the game.elvis_knits wrote:Thesp seems to be suspicious of VP, Serial, ekim. He thinks both me and kmd are town.
As an aside, I may stab the next person who uses the phrase OMGUS. In the gall bladder. With a highlighter. (It's the closest thing to me right now.)
I agree with you (and feel similarly about VP Baltar's vote on B&B).Ojanen wrote:I want to hear more from tajo.
His BaB hammer left me debating whether it was sincere. Dunno why. Otherwise his points have been mostly tajo-style catch ups or reasonable but smallish points, which sets my alarms slightly. The scumlist he's asking from Mike would be nice from him too, very preferably with reasoning.
Fixing this now.roflcopter wrote:charter, thesp - why aren't you voting anyone right now?
Agreed.Xylthixlm wrote:Taking quote in context...
For the record, I did not interpret that as asking about investigation when I read it.SerialClergyman wrote:5) I particularly like this from rofl:
Unless you've got some knowledge about Yos2 that I don't have, looks like you're doing exactly the same thing.rofl wrote:serial is chainsawing for kmd hard, and at this point attacking yos is a scumtell.
I'm truly saddened that I haven't gotten to play more (or any!) games of mafia with you before now.Xylthixlm wrote:The Yos2/Serial argument has gone well past the point of diminishing returns. Why keep going?
Vote: Ekim.I'd be equally happy voting VP Baltar or Yosarian2, and I like votes on PookyTheMagicalBear as well."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Choo choo!Ojanen wrote:Several people seem to be up for a Baltar wagon, anyone wanna join me? (Thesp?)
Unvote: Ekim, Vote: VP Baltar."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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He did this when I felt it was fairly clear that B&B was going to be lynched anyway, and he seemd preemptively defensive about his vote when placing it.elvis_knits wrote:Overall, I like VP's answers in his last post and it brought some things to my attention, like that he put BaB at L-1, which I didn't remember.
QFT.Ojanen wrote:I thought the L-1 vote was discussed quite a lot. I don't really see how an "overload of information, ok I'll vote BaB and someone should hammer" post makes Baltar more pro-townly involved exactly.
I'm good with a VP Baltar lynch. Yosarian2, what do you think?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Why is it everyone beats me to what I want to say?elvis_knits wrote:I think it was more than fishing. More like whaling. I wasn't going to mention it if you wanted to ignore it... but now I can!
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1) To ascertain how confident I am in my suspicions of Yosarian2,charter wrote:
Another Thesp-is-scum-ism! Why is he asking Yos when he would be fine voting for Yos?Thesp wrote:I'm good with a VP Baltar lynch. Yosarian2, what do you think?
2) To force Yosarian2 to take some sort of position on VP Baltar,
3) To highlight Yosarian2's noncommittal on VP Baltar, or
4) A combination of the first three.
(It's #4.)"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Howso?roflcopter wrote:not much time at the moment, i'm not happy to see that the serial wagon has completely evaporated.
unvote, vote: xyl
he should know better than to vote for yos again at this point
(Looks like Ojanen beats me to this question.)
Populartajo, glad to hear your Grandpa is doing better. My prayers are with you and yours.
The walls of text are becoming problematic.
Quoted for highlighting and massive agreement.Ekim wrote:He put him at L-1 the second time around, when BAB had already been claimed for ages and people were asking for him to be hammered. BAB was dead meat. It's hardly putting yourself out there to make that vote. What I was referring to was him not commenting seriously on wagons whilst they were ongoing. The omission here is VP's, by making it sound like he put BAB at L-1 pre-claim. He was NOT being proactive wrt the BAB wagon. Putting BAB at L-1 right at the end of the day doesn't mean squat, and VP pretending it does is bad.
For an example, here's a wishy washy comment from VP about the BAB wagon earlier that I find troublesome
"Some of this BnB stuff is becoming a bit muddled for me as I'm going along here. This is the usual setback I find with larger games and lots of competent players, a million lines of questioning happening that lose focus. I can already tell this is going to be a long game.
...
Bridges is a reasonable enough wagon for D1, though I would hope we can put the brakes on a little bit until some of the more background players (ekiM, iamausername, SerialClergyman, etc) weigh in and answer some questions."
Surely the vig can take care of him, if he's not busy offing alexhans/Pooky. We can get VP Baltar now.Xylthixlm wrote:Yos2 needs more votes. Come on people. Don't make me actually put together a case.
That's funny, I'm feeling the opposite.VP Baltar wrote:Out of the Yos and Xyl in the last pages, I find myself agreeing with Yos more (here come the buddying accusations).
I feel like in this game I have 3 day masons (you're one of them), where peoples' thoughts jive with my own. This is spot on and agrees with me entirely.Ojanen wrote:I want to lynch VP Baltar.
I'm wary of Yos, and actually tajo.
I don't understand charter at the moment.
Still happy with a VP Baltar lynch."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I find it very hard to follow the Xylthixlm wagon when I agree with almost everything Xyl says, and I find some of his questions probing and on target."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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On this note, I rarely seeiamausername wrote:
No. Do you often see a wagon on town build that fast? Outside of lylo situations, I mean.elvis_knits wrote:Do you often see a wagon build on scum that fast?anywagon build that fast. The last time I remember one going like that, it hit scum. (Actually, in what few quickish runups I can recall seeing, they've hit scum and not town.)
Because we're lynching VP Baltar. (Hopefully, though increasingly unlikely.)iamausername wrote:
QFT.elvis_knits wrote:Pretending you have role info when you don't is scummy.
Why aren't we lynching rofl again?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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And you think VP Baltar ischarter wrote:Ironic that now that Xyl is at L-1 he wants to be helpful and sort of try and scumhunt. Too late I say.town?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm frustrated with myself for not finding the time to fight the Xylthixlm wagon harder yesterday.
I'm more than a little surprised to see VP Baltar getting almost no real attention or votes, particularly with how yesterday went down. Sure, there's a substantial chance that Pooky's scum because we haven't seen hardly anything townie out of him (vig? where were you last night on either of these two?), yet there's still a greater chance VP Baltar is scum. Things from yesterday haven't gone away, moreso when two significant people on his wagon yesterday have turned up pro-town, and one of them was a friggin' goon cop who waffled on his initial vote, then went full-force on a VP Baltar vote. Can someone explain why VP Baltar isn't strung from his neck until he is dead yet?
Vote: VP Baltar."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Minivitational XI featured a quick (~36 hour) bandwagon lynch that ended up being on mafia. This was most certainly affected by a deadline, but it sticks out in my mind strongly as an instance where someone who was sort of scummy to many people suddenly got attention he previously didn't have. (I apologize in advance for linking to that game - reading parts of it still makes me want to quit the site, even though it was long ago.)elvis_knits wrote:And I am still wondering about wagon speed (which made me think VP was likely town before).
I'm not entirely convinced that the mafia killed Ojanen for pursuing VP Baltar (though there's a slight possiblity of it), I think it's more likely they killed Ojanen because it was extremely unlikely that she'd ever get lynched, given how many people were spouting her as town. However, with two of the people who were strongly on the town, I think it deflates at least a bit of the concern re: the speed of the wagon. (If not, it requires some far more specific concerns about it.)Yosarian2 wrote:1. "There are two people who were attacking him yesterday who we now know are pro-town!" Translation: the scum killed someone last night who was attacking VP Balter yesterday, except no one seems to want to put it that way, I guess because if they did then it would be obvious that it was a weak WIFOM argument.
I don't think it's clear at all that she didn't have a guilty on him, she said she was voting Ekim "for now", has an about face midday, aggressively pursues VP Baltar and never lets up and reaffirms her votes repeatedly. I don't think it's ironclad by any means, but I do think it's notable.Yosarian2 wrote:2. "A goon cop was voting him!" Do you really think she had a guilty on him? It seems pretty clear to me that she didn't, reading her posts. She didn't "waffle" on her initial vote, she came out hard against eikM and stayed there for a long time.
I've seen a couple of people state that they think VP Baltar is town - for those that havem can you explain to me why you think that? I don't see it at all.
Needs more VP Baltar/Yosarian2/Pooky death."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I've read back over roflcopter's posts and don't see any softclaiming. Perhaps I'm oblivious? Could you point me somewhere?iamausername wrote:I havereasonsto believe that rofl does not have the role he has been soft claiming. HINT HINT."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Gotcha. I think I want a full claim from roflcopter."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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ekiM wrote:If they both claim and iamausername's info does implicate roflcopter then we should lynch roflcopter; I don't see why iamascum would come out with false info like that to secure a single lynch (we can't be in LYLO yet and a 1-1 scum-town trade at this point should favor the town). And if it turns out that iamausername's info isn't actually a compelling case for a rofl lynch then iamausername should probably be lynched for inciting unnecessary claims when he should know better.
The reason roflcopter should claim first is that roflscum could modify his claim to match what info iamatown has, but I don't see how knowing rofltown's claim would help iamascum cook up plausible false info to implicate rofltown.
I agree with both of these entimentselvis_knits wrote:They need to both get here so we can sort it out."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I want to see roflcopter claim first."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Copycat."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I join the several voices expressing confusion at the thought of a Yosarian2 wagon at this point.
While I agree with this, I don't think it leads to a conclusion of IAmAUsername as being scum.elvis_knits wrote:The thing I do not like about this whole thing is that iamausername forced the claim of two powerroles, rofl and himself, which has resulted in no clear plan or damning evidence.
I mean, if iamausername is a jailkeeper who jailed rofl night 1, he had to hope that rofl would claim a result for N1, and then he could say "NO YOU LIAR YOU WERE JAILED YOU'RE SCUM DIE NAO KTHNXBI." (I may have misspelled the internetz lingo there).
Yet when rofl claims a result N1, iamausername says "hey maybe I was blocked. Let's lynch your innocent result to make sure."
WTF
This made me giggle with appreciation.elvis_knits wrote:I don't know what I want to do at this point. I'm tempted to just lynch charter instead.
I disagree with this. I think it's mildly plausible on one end, and on the other end, I think it's better not to puruse at this moment in time. If roflcopter is telling the truth, let the scum figure out what to do with him. If he's lying, it will come out. (I think both have appeared pretty genuine either way in this.) If we were really going to go with a "let's lynch one of them based on utility", IAmAUsername would be the clear lynch-winner there, but I don't think he's lying (I don't see why scum-IAAU would have played this out like he has). If anything, I think roflcopter is more suspicious here, but I don't think lynching him today is worthwhile.SerialClergyman wrote:I personally think if there is a mafia roleblocker who happened to block IAUN N1 and not rofl N2, the game is essentially gone. It's so ridiculous to pick that it's not worth worrying about. So I think we have to assume someone is lying. Provided there aren't 6 scum, we should have two lynches, so in the end, the correct decision is going to save us one mislynch.
I think aPookylynch is the most worthwhile. If forced to choose between IAAU and roflcopter, I'd pick roflcopter, but I don't think he's the best lynch today.
Unvote: VP Baltar, Vote: PookyTheMagicalBear."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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What suggests they would have blocked no one night 2? Also, why would Pooky flip town? (I've seen diddlysquat to suggest this would be the case.) Also, do you think the night would bring us some more info on today's situation?SerialClergyman wrote:I don't get that at all.
To my mind you're opening yourself up for a townflip on a third party and then we're in a lylo situation with a 50/50. At least if we get rofl or iam wrong, we'll then have a scum lynch and a lot of info.
And the only reason you wouldn't is if there was a mafia roleblcoker (who would have unlimited shots) who would have blocked IAUN N1 and noone N2. Surely that's hugely unlikely.
I'm not convinced this is an either/or situation as you have put it."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I think the chance of Pooky flipping scum is greater than the chances of roflcopter flipping scum, and I think the perils of lynching roflcopter incorrectlySerialClergyman wrote:I'm not standing up for Pooky or charter - it's possible either would flip town or scum. But when you have a 1/2 chance and 2 chances, I don't know why you wouldn't take it when the alternative is guessing on the rest.todayoutweigh the usefulness of lynching him today."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I respectfully disagree. (I think a roleblock of IAAU on N1 is plausible, though unlikely.) You haven't convinced me that Pooky is "random"SerialClergyman wrote:I can't agree. Unless you find a way around the roleblocker issue, a lynch of rofl or iam gives us a surefire scum lynch either today or tomorrow, plus a clusterfuck of info. Taking a stab at a random other play isn't worth it, imo.at all, though you keep suggesting it is."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Informal poll - who thoughtbefore last nightthat roflcopter was softclaiming role information? (This will be helpful, I think.)
I didn't."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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This was my understanding as well.VP Baltar wrote:
I didn't. I've seen several games where rofl plays his "this person is town" game. He does the same thing when he calls people scum too (and often to good accuracy from what I've seen). So, no, I figured he was just playing his usual gut style.Thesp wrote:Informal poll - who thoughtbefore last nightthat roflcopter was softclaiming role information? (This will be helpful, I think.)
I didn't.
I agree with the part of this that's not suspicious of IAAU.Yosarian2 wrote:If they are both town, and we don't lynch either one of them today, then there's a chance that one or the other would be able to confirm themselves tonight, and there's also a chance the mafia will feel the need to kill one of them tonight. It's probably not that likely that Iamusername was blocked by a scum roleblocker, though.
Also, I'm not liking the "lynch rofl and then if he's town we have two confirmed innocents" camp here. If rofl is town, then if we don't lynch him, we're likely to either get another confirmed innocent tomorrow or else force the scum to use their kill on him. If someone really thinks he's scum, then that's one thing, but you don't lynch a cop just to find out if he's telling the truth, that's insane.
This is an excellent question.elvis_knits wrote:ROFL: Why did you favor lynching vanilla bridges if you have the ability to check vanilla status?
There are others who have concerns about rofl/IAAU but haven't voted for either of them, why is Elvis_knits special?charter wrote:Third, I find EK incredibly suspect. After all this talk, she talks a lot about how IAUN's actions don't make sense or whatever, but no votes from it, she's voting me, a pointless vote.
I'm really not liking the entirety of the post this comes from.
I thought it flowed pretty naturally, actually - to me it looked like it wascharter wrote:Did you read iaun's story? It was a really bad one that looks quite scummy.perfectlyconsistent with how town might have acted there.
Does anyone here think that alexhans/PookyTheMagicalBear is likely to be town? At all?
Nope.iamausername wrote:If we do lynch someone else though, can anyone give a good reason why it shouldn't be Pooky?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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This.zu_Faul wrote:I'd be happy with a Pooky or charter lynch. I'd be ok with a rofl or iaun lynch. Please don't make me choose between those two."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Me, for one.charter wrote:
I missed them, who else did this?Thesp wrote:There are others who have concerns about rofl/IAAU but haven't voted for either of them, why is Elvis_knits special?
Still roflcopter, by a good bit.charter wrote:Zu Faul and Thesp, if you were to vote for one of rofl/iaun, who would it be?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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While all 3 are conceivable, I think #1 is most likely, followed by #2 with #3 a distant last likelihood. However, you have failed to demonstrate that this necessarily entails that lynching the best guess as to scum in this particular situation is the best play. In fact, compelling arguments have been put forth that a third party lynch is not only viable, but perhapselvis_knits wrote:Our choices are:
1)Rofl is scum
2)Iamausername was blocked
3)Iamausername is scum who decided it would be a good idea to fake claim out of nowhere
I would like everyone to say which of the above 1, 2, 3 they think is most likely and why.
The only reason we should lynch someone outside of rofl/iam is if people think iam was blocked. Or they just don't have the balls to deal with the situation.better,such as one espoused by Yosarian2 (which closely emulates my thoughts):Yosarian2 wrote: If ROFL is telling the truth, and is a cop, then we already effectively HAVE two confirmed innocents, or will whenever he dies, which is basically the same thing in principle. And if he is a cop, he will die, and fairly soon I expect; scum can't leave a cop around forever. You're talking about losing us a cop, and only getting in exchange information we already are guaranteed to get anyway.
Let me put forth a case on why I think iamausername is likely being truthful here.I'll also note that my town-hunting skills focus largely around people doing small things that are a natural part of being pro-town that are unlikely to be fabricated by scum:
1) His early distrust of roflcopter seems genuine, and his story of how he blocked roflcopter as a lone dissenter feels very natural, plausible and genuine. He sniped at roflcopter during D1, and gave even more pressure to him on D2, which is terribly consistent with a pro-town roleblocker who decided to take a shot at blocking scum on N1.
2) Later, he says this:
This seems incredibly consistent with how a pro-town player would act and post if they had indeed blocked someone N1, then that target vaguely suggests that they may have role info that the roleblocker would know would be impossible/extremely unlikely.iamausername wrote:
QFT.elvis_knits wrote:Pretending you have role info when you don't is scummy.
Why aren't we lynching rofl again?
3) Furthermore, his reticence to follow through on a roflcopter lynchalsoseems far more likely to come from a pro-town player than from scum:
This seems more hap-hazardly thought out than cold and calculated. iamausername seems aware that there's a possibility that we're screwed on a freakish N1 block, and sees some value in not lynching a claimed cop.roflcopter wrote:So, yeah, I don't have 100% damning evidence that rofl is scum, if I did, I would have just gone ahead and said so without waiting for a claim from him first. If you really think that necessitates a lynch on me, then I guess go ahead, but I don't believe that what I've done here has hurt the town.
By the way, we're not lynching rofl today. It would clearly be a better idea to lynch Yos, because he is definitely scum if rofl is scum, and on the off chance that rofl is actually telling the truth, we'd be lynching a vanilla rather than a cop.
If roflcopter had planned on outing roflcopter's role, why do it in this manner? Why claim to be an X-shot roleblocker andthen push for someone other than roflcopter? His final delivery is too haphazard and ephemeral to be as cold and calculated as a set-up fake claim here.
I don't see iamausername as scum. At all.
Moreover, I find the questioning of roflcopter re: the BridgesAndBaloons lynch to be intriguing - his behavior to B&B's claim is diametrically opposed to the approach to VP Baltar's claim. This doesn't seem very consistent for a pro-town Vanilla Cop throughout the game.
There's more, but this is the heart of it, and I don't want to clutter things further than necessary. My apologies for the length of this post, but I thought it was important.
I'm disturbed by the thought that you think his push on you was a calculated gambit - I'm having a hard time imagining that you'd be lynched after the claims came out as they did. More importantly,Yosarian2 wrote:
Well, except in Iam's original gambit, it wouldn't have resulted in "two confirmed innocents", since it looks like he was hoping to get me lynched first.elvis_knits wrote:I just think scum would rather go for a mislynch on somebody else, rather than construct a fake claim in order to lynch a power role, which would result in confirming two innocents. It's not 100%, but I just think Iam fakeclaiming is unlikely. If you disagree, explain why.I'm having a hard time imagining that a calculated scum move would expect that a push for your lynch would be in any way effective or likely to succeed. This is another thing that disturbs me - I'm incredibly distrustful of both of the players that have been "cleared" by roflcopter.
All that said, I think another night of both iamausername and roflcopter staying alive is more likely to be productive than counter-productive. I still think a Pooky lynch is incredibly likely to hit scum, particularly since he continues to give no reason for anyone to think he's town (while I can see some considerations for most other players in the game). I think Pooky is still the best lynch for today. If forced, I will vote for roflcopter over a no-lynch."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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This doesn't sound like someone who's convinced.charter wrote:Fine
unvote, vote Roflcopter
Howso?populartajo wrote:WTF?
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Do you think it's likely that he's fake-claiming as he is?Ekim wrote:I don't see what's insane about Tajo's move as scum. He claims to have role info clearing rofl and a bunch of other people (probably mostly scum, maybe not all to get the town ones good will). The lynch is steered to a third party scum know is town. Tomorrow is probably LYLO and scum with the help of a townie or two lynch iamausername or another townie for the win.
(iamausername touches on my thoughts re: the roleclaim later as well - it's pretty darn consistent.)
I'm not sure I follow you. Why not no-lynch instead, given this concern?charter wrote:I also think, that if a vig claims and isn't countered, then we should lynch tajo today, because it A) prevents losing tonight if the person he hides behind is killed or he hides behind scum B) either nets a scum (virtually two or three) or four confirmed townies.
Still good with a PookyLynch, though I'd like to hear a claim first."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I suspect this is likely.elvis_knits wrote:I'm also wondering how we should plan if there is a scum RB.
I'm good with that.iamausername wrote:charter, ekiM, zu and Thesp; we are waiting on you. When ~75% of players have already claimed, clearly a massclaim is happening. Any further resistance to the idea is just halting progress.I'm vanilla town.
I don't like any deflection of the Pookywagon either.iamausername wrote:I don't like the lynch tajo plan, because I think he is town, and I think SerialClergyman is scum derailing the lynch that was about to happen on his buddy Pooky.
There are a crapton of claimed roles - I'm guessing we have a mafia roleblocker and possibly a mafia godfather. Anyone know what happens if a Mafia GF who is InvImm is investigated by a Vanilla Cop?
This is also true if populartajo is a NKImm GF.charter wrote:WE CAN'T VIG TAJO. If there's a roleblocker, it won't work.
Thanks for jogging my memory of that - I'd read that post the exact same way at the time. Hugeelvis_knits wrote:I think zu faul is scum guys. I've been thinking he was a cop or info role of some kind since beginning of day 2 when he clearly breadcrumbed that Thesp was town.
This is the post I am talking about:
zu_Faul wrote:Which game, VP Baltar? I assumed that his absense was legitimate.
I think Thesp is a good citizen.
There are still some questions directed at ekiM, would love an answer.FOS: zu_Faul- we can get him next.
I don't think lynching someone I think is town is ideal at this juncture, so I'm not voting populartajo. I'd much, much rather see a Pooky lynch and I'm surprised it's evaporated. ekiM and zu_faul need to votenow. Yosarian2, Pooky and roflcopter need to move to a wagon that can do something.
I will do my darnedest to post tonight, though I'm not sure that I'd take a populartajo lynch over no lynch."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I don't follow this logic at all.elvis_kits wrote:Also, of note, nobody claimed protective roles except SC and iamausername, which would seem to indicate that atleast one of them is telling the truth.
Also, Mafia GF (if InvImm) shows up as vanilla town to a Vanilla Cop. We're not out of the woods yet."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Not necessarily, is there something I've missed? What suggests that there is one?elvis_knits wrote:
Don't you think there's probably atleast one protective role in the game?Thesp wrote:
I don't follow this logic at all.elvis_kits wrote:Also, of note, nobody claimed protective roles except SC and iamausername, which would seem to indicate that atleast one of them is telling the truth."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm good with that.elvis_knits wrote:
Me neither, but if he flips town we lynch thesp tomorrow and have VP and Yos confirmed town.charter wrote:Not buying rofl's story.
I don't think we can go wrong there.
Vote: roflcopter.
While I think the "Vote Yosarian2" first idea is novel, I'm more of a bird-in-the-hand kind of guy - the evidence against roflcopter is close to ironclad (or almost as close as you can get in mafia), and the case on Yosarian2 is compelling but not as clear-cut. I'm all for the rofl lynch.
There's a clear difference here - the "citizen" word is pretty synonymous with townie - it looks an awful lot like trying to breadcrumb (and for someone who apparently missed roflcopter's "breadcrumb", it stuck out to me like one).zu_Faul wrote:
LYING? WHAT THE FUCK, CHARTER. "CLEARLY LYING"? HAHAHA. And elvis just swallows it.charter wrote:Actually, I say we lynch zu faul right after Yos. Zu faul was clearly lying about his "thesp is a good citizen" statement,
Look, I am going to spell it out for you, since you are going to ask anyway: Accusing someone of a lie is a huge accusation in the game of mafia. You are accusing me of a lie, when I made a statement reagarding the alignment of a player. There was no way I could have known his alignment. You can't lie if you don't know the truth. Sometime you are just wrong in the game of mafia. I was wrong (maybe?) on Thesp's alignment. So what? That is not a lie."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I thought it was obvious. Is it not?charter wrote:Thesp, why didn't you mention that rofl has to be lying, from your point of view? He said you weren't a vanilla, but you don't mention this. How come?
Hmm. I like this strain of thinking. The only hesitation I have is, "What if roflcopter is a/the Mafia Roleblocker?"ekiM wrote:rofl is not going to flip town. THEREFORE we should lynch Yos. The fact that rofl, and now Thesp (potential scum) would rather lynch rofl first tells me Yos is probably godfather. Unvote rofl before Yos can hammer him. Vote Yos.
But now, I'm not so sure that's terribly important. Actually, I don't mind taking a moment to see if this thought process is worth considering.
Unvote: roflcopter."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I intend to mean the phrasing to indicate that the mafia may or may not have a roleblocker, though I certainly see other constructions of my phrasing. (It's possible that the mafia has more than one roleblocker, but I'm not sure how worthwhile that speculation is at this point.)elvis_knits wrote:
This made me laugh.Thesp wrote: The only hesitation I have is, "What if roflcopter is a/the Mafia Roleblocker?"
Doesn't the phrasing mean there might be more than one mafia roleblocker? Why would anyone think that?
Scare me more, Thesp. I like the thrill."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Also, I'm liking the thought of vigging roflcopter more and lynching Yosarian2, with the only hesitation being that I've missed why it's so compelling that Yosarian2 is a godfather of roflcopter, other than roflcopter "cleared" Yosarian2. I need to go back and look."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Do you think Yosarian2 should be allowed near the endgame?elvis_knits wrote:I would rather not go for a possible 2-fer-1 trying to lynch a possible GF, who if we're wrong will really screw us up. If rofl is traitor, we lynch Yos tomorrow and he's probably GF. There's nothing really lost by doing it that way. It takes an extra day, but we can afford that. We cannot afford to lynch yos first if for some reason he flips town.
Really, the only reason we shouldn't be lynching roflcopter is if we think there's a reasonable chance that roflcopter is the traitor, and that the person we'd be lynching would be their Godfather. Looking back, I think there's a reasonably likely chance this is the case with Yosarian2.
Even if we lynch roflcopter first, we're still going to be left with, "what do we do with Yosarian2?". Is there anyone who thinks he's likely to be town? If so, you'd better speak up now. If not, we're going to have to lynch him at some point (or vig him, which there might be issues with if he's a NK-Immune-GF).
If we think there's a reasonable chance Yosarian2's the Godfather (should one exist),ANDthat Yosarian2 is one of the people that should be lynched by the end of the game because it's unlikely he's town, we should lynch him now. If not, we should lynch roflcopter.
(The benefit of lynching the Godfather if there's a traitor is that we end up with an extra kill in our control, either via the vig or via charter tree-stumping.)
I'm liking the Yosarian2 plan.
Vote: Yosarian2.
I'm not sure how you could assert that you'd have no benefit as scum to having the seeds of a fakeclaim planted.zu_Faul wrote:Honestly, the only case I see against me is the "breadcrumb" which I have already explained. I could not get anything out of it as scum."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Roflcopter's not going to townflip.Serial Clergyman wrote:Thesp totally missed the point. A town flip on rofl resolves any question about yos - he's then confirmed town.
If they are both scum, as is likely, the order hardly matters. But if rofl townflips were in a much better position than if yos townflips.
The orderdoesmatter if one is the godfather, though, if we lynch thatone first, we get an extra half-day against the scum, which affords us the chance to be able to vig again."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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The end to yesterday made me laugh.
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For the record, I am strongly opposed to any and all plans that involve lynching or vigging me. I do understand that my hesitation on the populartajo wagon doesn't garner me any town-points. (It clearly shouldn't make anyone guaranteed-scum, given at least one townie on the wagon, and from my point definitely at least two.) At the same time, I agree with VP Baltar re: Pooky still possibly being scum.
I'm not sure why VP Baltar is escaping attention as possible scum - he's no longer "cleared" by roflcopter. I am good with a zu_Faul lynch, though, for reasons listed by me and others in a myriad of places. I think VP Baltar is the ideal vig candidate - I'm having a hard time imagining that in the given D2 lynch voting:
Xylthixlm: 8 (charter, elvis_knits, PookyTheMagicalBear,populartajo,roflcopter, VP Baltar,Yosarian2, zu_Faul)
VP Baltar: 6 (ekiM,iamausername,Ojanen,SerialClergyman, Thesp,Xylthixlm)
ekiM: 1 (Kmd4390)
...where the known scum are all on Xylthixlm (along with current top suspect zU_Faul and other suspicious folk) isn't worth considering, particularly if we're using the Pooky v. roflcopter lynch as a useful belwether (which I think is worthwhile).
I think kmd4390 should vig somone if he thinks charter isn't a good lynch at some point (tomorrow, should we lynch town today), based on the numbers. Otherwise, he should probably pocket it. (Though ekiM also plays with the numbers some. Hmm.)
We have eight players now.VP Baltar wrote:Yeah, just did the numbers. We have seven players now."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I know, who'd've thunk it?elvis_knits wrote:
lol, I am shocked.Thesp wrote:For the record, I am strongly opposed to any and all plans that involve lynching or vigging me."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Good, then.
Vote: zu_Faul."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Working on a big post now - give me an hour or so, por favor. ¡Gracias!"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Still working."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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