Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Vi]

Hey everyone!

This is Page 78, and D1 promises to be a nightmare of a reread, so if anyone could give a brief summary of what's going on now ITT I'd be more than grateful!

BYAHH Go Vi!

Is that like "go

away

Vi"?

[Vi]

EBWOP: 74, 78, they're both numbers so I wasn't too far off~

[Vi]

This is a post to remind everyone that I exist. Unfortunately my current existence is around Post 300. But I'm catching up as quickly as I can.

Deadline is in over 3 weeks. If there is a lynch before I'm finished with my read, there will be hell to pay - probably in postgame though.

'Not sure if it would be a good idea to say much as of yet, so filler, etc.

[Vi]

All right, I'm finally done!

...

...with Day 1.

Briefly, these are my thoughts.

*All of you are on crack.
No, seriously, if I ever need to reference a game where Town lynches itself into submission, I have it right here. Every last one of you is trying your evil best to be completely unreadable. Is it really that hard to

look pro-Town when you ARE pro-Town?

*Mastin was a good lynch.
He was lurking, and this was pointed out multiple times. There were a number of times he could have come back and started contributing, and defused much of the pressure on him (since the strongest basis of the accusations against him was that he was lurking). However, I do not believe that there was a concerted scum effort involved in stalling his wagon half a dozen times - quite the opposite; I think the people who DIDN'T move their votes from Mastin very often to be more likely scum because it was a secure wagon that nobody could really argue against. To that end, I would estimate that there is no more than one scum between {Battle Mage, SensFan, Vi, Benmage, jammer} - all the living players who WEREN'T on the Mastin wagon.

*Virtually all of the Town vs. Town bickering is a result of peoples' playstyles.
By which I frankly mean

play better

. Yes, I'm talking to you. Whatever you're doing in this game, if someone has complained about it, don't do it again. Ever.

*Most, if not all, of the argument is probably generated by Town against Town. Scum are therefore more likely to have been the ones taking a backseat Day 1.
I haven't been paying attention to the dates and times as I've zoomed through the thread, and I acknowledge that there is some legitimacy to not posting relatively often considering this game moved about five times as fast as most games onsite. However, you'll notice that the people who didn't post much didn't get much pressure, and when they did, it just seemed to disappear. Is this partly a result of certain players stuffing their feet into their mouths on a routine basis? Why yes, and these players served to distract from any concerns aimed at the more infrequent posters. (Or rather, these players served to distract from the distractions from the distractions from the concerns.) However, it's also a result of the scum not needing to go to great lengths to stick out. There are people accusing each other right and left with fairly justified rants and implicating themselves in the process. Scum would be best served by staying out of it, except to egg it on in places with a vote and/or snide remarks from the sidelines.

With that in mind, scumpicks at this point are Zachrulez, {DeDæDi, jammer, SensFan}, {SpyreX, Battle Mage, Kmd4390}. This will probably get winnowed down later, but they're listed more or less in order. Thus right now I would dayvig Zach, DDD, and SpyreX in that order.

More to come.

[Vi]

This mountainous setup...just keep waiting for that cop-role to come save you.

Some great posts and zings in this game, but this one was too ironic to pass up.

[Vi]

Finished Day 2 a little early as my opinions weren't changing, and I'm coming pretty close to the present now.

Let me ask this while I finish up. I'm Kairyuu, and I'm blackcatcontract. Yes, both of the people I replaced lurked to some criminal extent.
In light of this, how many people want to lynch me?

[Vi]

In one spot without 4 million quotes and/or blaze blah I'd love to see this developing case on BM.

I second this.

---

@GIEFF. I'm not looking for excuses. I am asking if you agree with this.

--bcc lurked to a criminal extent
SO
--bcc is scum, or at least our best chance for hitting scum

Although this seems to be what you're saying...

--bcc lurked to a criminal extent
AND
--the two criminal lurkers we've lynched so far flipped Town
AND
--all three are probably not Town
SO
--bcc is probably scum

...which is the Gambler's Fallacy.

Scum don't have to flake-lurk in this game because there are Townies doing it for them! All they have to do is avoid being the worst of the worst!

And the most compelling question to come from this is--if bcc is your best bet for scum,

why bother asking for a replacement?

Especially one that doesn't take getting lynched very well

---

Thank you, Zachrulez, for lining up lynches.

It's because I'm black!

catcontract

---

Vi, if BM is scum, do you think that we would be justified in assuming that you are scum too, based on his behavior toward bcc yesterday and today? i.e. making excuses for his lurking, and asking people to vote for BM instead of for bcc?

I suppose this would be a bad time for me to say that I have a Town read on Battle Mage?
And the answer is--not really. There's no need for Scummie Mage to tie himself to the obvious D3 lynch.

I will concede that I was baffled at the whole dispute about the lurkers being likely scum and one being more likely than the other, coming from the perspective of knowing that all of them were Town. But then, see my previous comment about all the scum have to do to avoid being lynched in this town.

-----

Okay, I kind of half-read the last few pages since I didn't see a case on Battle Mage forthcoming. This is where I stand on everyone so there are no surprises.

Battle Mage. Town. Really annoying to read at times because of his tendency to say really stupid things right after I start thinking he's securely Town ("oh I forgot I was voting VP Baltar! guess that means I'll lurk for a while"), but when not floundering a la DrippingGoofball his votes for the past two Days have been very agreeable.

SensFan. No idea. His play has been 100% policy at this point and says nothing about his alignment. I'm not sure if he would be playing any differently if there were less "spew" in this topic.

alexhans. Probably Town just for the amount of floundering he's done. Not a terribly secure read, and he's been off the mark for a while, but here and there I thought I saw some Town transparency.

GIEFF. Sometime late Day 1 I started to get the sense that he was Town after thinking he was incredibly scummy all Day. I haven't really changed that opinion much because he's been doing a lot of meta research that, while pointless and unnecessary, shows that he's putting a lot of effort into the game. So I'm currently taking the uncomfortable position that GIEFF is a Townie who happens to be playing the scummiest game of his life.

Debonair Danny DiPietro. I was hoping I wouldn't be the only person to say this (so thank you SpyreX), but why is it that whenever people start calling DDD a lurker, he shows up and makes a token post soon afterward and then the world is right again? For that matter, what did he do that got everyone's respect? ("Indeed. TRIPLE D is definitely an asset." *modkill* *Japanese Godfather*) DDD is lurkerscum and must die.

Vicatyuu. I'm like Soulja Boy, except apparently a furry and most decidedly not Soulja Boy.

KBroomd4390. I can't tell. I skipped most of this Day, when he posted something other than gripes about people posting so much. Needs further investigation.

SpyreX. Up until late Day 2 I thought SpyreX was underproducing, but his posts since his Cephrir vote have been overwhelmingly sensical. Temporarily Town.

Zachrulez. I've already outlined how Zach is scum beyond belief, and yet nobody's interested in voting him. What is it that's making people think he's Town? That he said he would swap one lurker for another as long as someone got lynched? (note: they're both Town!) Zach is former lurkerscum and must die.

Benmage. Town - transparently so, and always has been. He's the closest thing to a confirmed Townie that I see in this game.

jammer. I don't know. I wanted to say newbie early on, but he keeps making posts that seem to take up space and say vaguely scummy things.

-----

Vote: Zachrulez

(L-5)
I don't expect to move this vote unless it's to DDD or someone who starts playing like a Jester, since I'm not sure who the third scum is as of yet.
(Please out yourself! It'll make this game end so much more quickly, and we'll all be happy!)

Now if all the people I called remotely Town would stop attacking each other and focus on the people I called scum we might make some progress.

And to cut it off now, I don't do quote wars and I'm not really interested in hearing your dissenting opinions. I've gone through 1900 posts in two days. 100 more of the same bickering probably won't change my mind.

-----

One more thing. Hey Benmage, whenever you're sober.
*If you were an anime character, what hair color would you have?
*What color shirt do you have on? (If you're not wearing one, find one)
*What is your favorite color?

[Vi]

So you're excusing BM's overall inconsistent play because he sucked the whole game or something? Why do we keep allowing people to do this kind of stuff and excuse their scumminess because it's their playstyle??

alex, remember what I said about playstyle a while ago?

Battle Mage is more like spot on except when he's incredibly far off. I'm not denying that there's a case to be made on him (or anyone else in the game). I'm denying that there's a scumflip at the end of it.

---

@Zach: Of course I wouldn't expect you to take this vote lying down. I remember Grimmafia as well as you do. And besides, everyone else I accused in that game was scum
And... incidentally, I was Town in Grimmafia. Do you think that should reflect on your implication that I'm scum in this game? (again, I wouldn't expect you to take this vote lying down, so why target you?)

I've already covered your D1 scumplay, where the "former lurkerscum" title came from - considering you only showed up to snipe at people and/or complain about Mastin not being lynched, even when at one point you yourself weren't voting Mastin.

D2 was pretty funny. After Benmage self-voted, camn-Town got angry, GIEFF-Town got angry, and you-scum went "whoa, wait, chill". It looked like you were caught by surprise at Benmage's overreaction; your pressure worked

too

well. As has already been pointed out, scum offering to self-hammer (somehow; that's hard to do when he's already voting himself) isn't a bad thing, because, well, scum getting hammered. And that's the difference between zwet in Grimmafia and Benmage here. In Grimmafia, you were of the same alignment. Here, I doubt it highly.

After making peace with Benmage after that got out of control, you seamlessly moved onto GIEFF for horrible reasons that I'm very glad you got called on in the very next post. After that you basically were for whatever lurker lynch you could get. One really is as good as the other in this game - they're both Town.

Overall not impressed with the reasoning behind your votes throughout.

---

Any particular reason you're fixated on this? Why not in Battle Mage's unwillingness to explain why he thought BCC/You were town? Why not in Sensfan's hammer?

Nice blameshifting.
I've already answered both of those questions, etc.

[Vi]

And yes, you were town. That doesn't mean you're town here. So why should I believe that your attacks on me are town motivated in this game? Especially when you write off Battle Mage's scummy play, and fire off accusations at me so similar to Grim Mafia, it's like you haven't learned from your mistakes there.

Realize that Battle Mage is only the flavor of the week. I'm also writing off GIEFF's scummy play (for some reason), alex's scummy play, and SpyreX's scummy play.
Also as I said with my D1 commentary, if I'm calling you scummy for the same things in a different game and if you are Town in both, you should probably change your playstyle.

I've yet to see a coherent case for why Battle Mage is scum. As far as I've seen, it has to do with him favoring one lurker lynch over the other (which I'm not about to buy into for obvious reasons), his "r-tarded" accusation to GIEFF that still managed to get blown out of proportion (which is not terribly different from what he said about Mastin being a viable NK

N1

N2), and the fact that he swings from brilliant to nitwitastic every five minutes when he gets going (which I understand is his meta).

Re: Mastin - Wise decision, but see Day 1 commentary.

Re: Benmage - I'm not sure. Your vote's hardly impressive, considering it both piggybacked on SensFan's vote and involved zero reading of what Benmage said at all. For someone who got in such a tizzy about Benmage self-voting - which is

only a problem if Benmage is Town

- these comments don't match.

Wow, I think I just choked on that WIFOM.

He's already named me as scum. (Without a vote.)

Let's just lynch Benmage and move on. He's doing nothing for the town. It's ridiculous.

The last one should be contrasted with

There isn't any time limit on this. If you need time to think it over, then take some time to calm down and think about it.

unvote:

So Zach, you're washing your hands of the Cephrir wagon because you say it would have gone on without you. Had you not taken action here, would the Benmage wagon have gone on without you?

Re: GIEFF - Even if your case was more comprehensive, if it built on the assumption that GIEFF cut down, it wouldn't have been any better.

---

@GIEFF: Why'd you bother unvoting me?
If you went out into the sunshine, would you sparkle?

---

Also, I found this amusing.

I'm not

necessarily

lurking, ok.

But you

have

been lurking at all? Juuuuust checking.

Talking of lurking, you know who I saw updating every game but this one before I went to sleep? Debonair Danny DiPietro~
lurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurklurk

[Vi]

Reading alexhans in isolation and responding atm.
In advance, please put a stop payment on the Battle Mage defense in the previous post.

[Vi]

Reading alexhans in isolation because I haven't done so yet.

You're so full of it BM... Your whole move to clear yourself from Mastin's lynch is really clear... You "suspected" him and waggoned him but when it was certain he was getting lynched you came out to say he was town??? come on...

I only see Battle Mage voting Mastin once during D1, in post 71. Mastin was lynched in post 1078. Am I missing something?

1) I told you as soon as I could that you were doing the same thing Benmage did. Saying oh.. wow... glad im alive...
3)You Planned multiple lynches with me and mastin. I'm not doing it. I think before I lynch someone.
4) I can't up my posting atm. I'm pretty busy and you're just adding fluff to the game so nobody can catch up.

1) I'm starting to believe that being glad to be alive is a VI-tell.
2) No comment.
3) I'm not sure I follow. I see that you vote very rarely; does that mean that throwing your vote around is scummy if you're hitting scum each time?
4) Bear in mind that I think I've read maybe 20% of your posts all the way through in this game, a-hans. You've no room to talk.

you try hardest calling me a hypocrite or something worst everytime you have a chance? That's not cool.

oh okay

BS... You call what I do is not game relevant and what you do is? BS... and more BS... If I was on a personal crusade against those whose playstyle I don't like in this game I would be lynching SensFan, DDD, Cephir, BCC, Camn, maybe GIEFF, maybe KMD. I want to lynch scum. I want to lynch you. The fact that you defended BCC over Cephir makes me confident about not voting Cephir.

Posts like this make you look Town. Not good on the maturity scale tbh, but Town.

1) I didn't vote you for that waggon. I vote you because you're scum and you supported a quicklynch but tried to stay off it...
2) Bullshit. Stop talking like SensFan. There's no GOOD policy lynches. We have to lynch scum not people that we dislike for some reason.
3) IIRC, you said she was town...
4) Wich is inconsistent... Why did you derail the bcc waggon but then didn't take responsability for the Cephir one?
5) This is bs. You're night speculating when you voted Mastin for it.
6) 1508: shows why you're scum. Now you say that the Cephir vote had evidence that indicated he was scum? And you call Camn scummy NOW? And VP Baltar obv town? This is all designed to make you look good.

Do you realize that scum can buss each other? If you do... then you'll see that anti-pairing is not so effective.
7) Huh? Are you looking to see if you have support for a mislynch?

Why do you keep asking who does the kill implicate when we all know that scum has 100 % control over it? Didn't SensFan and DDD said that? Didn't you agree? Why do you use it when it's convinient to you? (That was rethorical, the answer is because you're scum)
8) It's amazing how you try to look town and buddy GIEFF in every post but still want others to pick on what you say and make him look scummy.

1) Not to be confused with Zach saying that he was on the wagon but didn't get a chance to be off it? Cephrir, like most flaker lynches, was low-risk almost-no-return.
2) It's true though. Almost everyone here deserves to be lynched on sight by this point. We should all post our Role PMs and await divine justice. (You go first.)
But this is what I'm talking about when I say there's a good case to be made against everyone. That's what I think Battle Mage was saying.
3) Speeding through Battle Mage's posts, I don't see camn mentioned after Battle Mage #156, where she's not a viable lynch. So this may be worth something.
4) So Battle Mage is arguing against Kmd's vote analysis because it would not catch Battle Mage-scum from the Cephrir wagon. I'm not surprised at the logic, to say the least. I don't see how this is scummy per se...
A better question would be how Battle Mage came to think Zachrulez was Town overnight. I don't get it myself, reading #207 - lynching Town lurkers is like handing out free passes to endgame for scum.
5) I'll agree at this point that night speculation, at least in the direction everyone is looking, is pointless. However, saying that Battle Mage voted Mastin for night speculation doesn't cover half of it.
6) It wouldn't surprise me. This is one of Battle Mage's ungodly scummy posts. I'm not taking it for granted, because all the namedropping looks horrible.
7) Some overreaction here, unless you can prove that Battle Mage had a scripted answer after anything Benmage said. I do agree that looking into who the scum killed the way Battle Mage is going about it will accomplish nothing positive.
8) I agree that Battle Mage needs to be concise and stop arguing with himself in his own posts. The most interesting part about this is that Battle Mage is voting GIEFF now.

----

@alex #83: Ha ha ha! Good catch!

----

@alex #84:

He voted Mastin.
Unvoted, Voted Me.
Pushed my case a lot. He was "convinced" until people started disbelieving his case.
Then voted GIEFF.
Then, suddenly. Called GIEFF town.
When Mastin was getting lynched. He called Mastin Obv town.
After VP's death. He called VP obv town.
He was CLEARLY against a BCC lynch and pushed a Cephir one.
He was NOT on the Cephir waggon.
He continues to suggest that

I can see all of these except the part about calling GIEFF Town and the last one. Could you link me to where GIEFF became Town D1?
The problem here is that there isn't a conclusion, though. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Questions that come from this.
Why was VP Baltar obvTown?

He wasn't. Battle Mage was pleased with VP Baltar being dead until D3.

Why was BM not on the Cephrir wagon at day's end?

He was voting Zachrulez, post 1401 (Page 57). Reasoning: Following GIEFF. Believability: Somewhat low.

----

Conclusion: Well, my confidence in Battle Mage has certainly been shaken. I'd like to see Battle Mage post now that I'm caught up.
For now, Battle Mage replaces GIEFF as the person in my Dubious Town group that I'd want to lynch first.

----

Some things I found while reading.

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

I pity the Town if none of you are Scum. That, and I don't think its possible for all 3 of you to be that scummy, but still Town.

Well, we're up to two Town in that group

The number of scum in this game coming back with Battle Mage's backtracking is intriguing, especially since jammer has been Scum #4 since Page 2. I'm toying with a policy lynch on jammer tomorrow just for that.

Alex, I changed my mind about Benmage once he actually started being reasonable.

I'm getting a lot of mixed signals from him and it's frustrating.

'Found this. This lends credence to Zach's position.

I have the right to attack those who played poorly and allowed a town lurker to be quicklynched over a possbile scum lurker.

If you KNEW Cephrir was town, tell me, why didnt you say anything? Yet another terrible scum-slip.

*zing!*
See what I mean when I say that there's a compelling case to be made against everyone?

Ok, DDD is posting again.

Unvote:

is DDD posting a towntell?

Again, *zing!*
See where I'm getting my conclusion that Battle Mage bounces wildly from pro-Town to anti-Town and back again?

[Vi]

Mod, Could you cut Vi's "lurklurklurk" scream in more than one line so I don't need to scroll this page to read every line? thanks

I was actually going to do this as soon as I saw the post in question. Consider it done.

Thank you. I wanted it to go as far as it could without stretching the page, but the dimensions of the preview window are different from the dimensions of the actual post.
Although alex, that wasn't a scream.

BYAHH

Go Vi!

That's

a scream

Talking of Benmage. Wave hi to yourself.
Tell me if the palette is something close to decent. This is totally not the first time I've done something like this, so I'm seeing if I can do more with it before calling it done.

VI

Daykill: alexhans

Can you also prod Mr. Danny D?

DDD doesn't need a prod. I'm fairly confident he's aware of this game, considering he posted elsewhere onsite yesterday and today. Plus he plainly told us he was going to lurk through this game, and has done an excellent job of it (no sarcasm). So I'd rather you were voting him than SensFan.

I was hoping Zachrulez would have posted before now; I'm interested in his response to the earlier post. But DDD hate brings instant gratification.

Unvote: Zachrulez
Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

(L-4)

[Vi]

What has DDD done that is scummy besides contribute lightly?

What has DDD done besides contribute barely?

Oh right, he told us he was out to lurk. And you'll notice that whenever someone calls his name, he shows up soon afterward. He's reading the topic; he's just not posting.

Plus, as I said, most of the fighting ITT has been Town vs. Town unless I'm terribly wrong about half of you. DDD has had the least excuse for not showing up and is in the bottom two for saying useful things (with Kmd) while having a vote on each wagon (with Zach and SpyreX).

@Benmage: The pants

should

be purple. If not, blame Paint
I'll try black hair, although the hood covers most of it. And I'll see what I can do about a darker blue.

[Vi]

bcc/Kai have contributed less than DDD has, Vi - is their behavior scummy, too?

I

am

bcc/yuu, and with all due respect I've contributed more in the last 48 hours than DDD has in 77 pages.

[Vi]

bcc/Kai have contributed less than DDD has, Vi - is their behavior scummy, too?

I

am

bcc/yuu, and with all due respect I've contributed more in the last 48 hours than DDD has in 77 pages.

Also, promising to post but flaking anyway (what Mastin, Cephrir, and bcc did) is different from deliberately lurking except for strategic posts.

[Vi]

bcc/Kai have contributed less than DDD has, Vi - is their behavior scummy, too?

I

am

bcc/yuu, and with all due respect I've contributed more in the last 48 hours than DDD has in 77 pages.

Also, promising to post but flaking anyway (what Mastin, Cephrir, and bcc did) is different from deliberately lurking except for strategic posts.

Read this again, GIEFF. Both parts, please. This too--

Plus, as I said, most of the fighting ITT has been Town vs. Town unless I'm terribly wrong about half of you. DDD has had the least excuse for not showing up and is in the bottom two for saying useful things (with Kmd) while having a vote on each wagon (with Zach and SpyreX).

Btw, how did you choose the name GIEFF, anyway?

[Vi]

So if a more active player replaced DDD, you would stop voting for him?

Nope.

Also, promising to post but flaking anyway (what Mastin, Cephrir, and bcc did) is different from deliberately lurking except for strategic posts.

I see no reason not to believe Cephrir and bcc at least wanted to catch up, but were not able to.
DDD has deliberately told us "Hey, I'm going to stay in the background. If you want me to say something, call me."

This is day 3. We can do better than just lynching one lightly-contributing player among many lightly-contributing players.

...says the person voting SensFan.
At least you got the idea that all the heavily-contributing players are Town. That's the first step in the right direction.

[Vi]

See, but SensFan has acted quite scummily - I haven't seen much scummy behavior from DDD.

That's because you haven't seen ANY behavior from DDD. Which is the point when you consider that DDD

has chosen

to do this.

I'm repeating myself. Someone else please post so we can go on to a new topic of dogma.
By "someone else", I'm thinking of SpyreX, but any of the other eight players will do.

[Vi]

This is where I post for irony's sake, right?

Absolutely! I've praised your expert timing for a while now; I'd expect nothing less.

I mean, they both know how to get me to contribute so they can evaluate my stances and opinions. The fact that they haven't done that suggests to me that they're simply looking for the next lurker lynch instead of actually trying to scumhunt.

The last time I checked, I was not responsible for your contribution. But thanks for admitting to being a lurker; I feel quite validated.

Let's go with SpyreX. Please tell me about his alleged revisionism.

[Vi]

I mean, they both know how to get me to contribute so they can evaluate my stances and opinions. The fact that they haven't done that suggests to me that they're simply looking for the next lurker lynch instead of actually trying to scumhunt.

The last time I checked, I was not responsible for your contribution. But thanks for admitting to being a lurker; I feel quite validated.

Why would I deny something that's so obviously the truth. You'll have to excuse me if I don't congratulate you for this insight though; seeing as how I announced this was how I was going to play.

Right, and that makes everything better somehow
Feel free to keep posting while you're here. It's an open forum; talk about whatever you like as long as it's related to the game.

---

Oh, SpyreX ♪

My argument has been that IF GIEFF is town he will be a NK before we reach true-lylo. This is not because he is SUPER TOWN, but because he has been the most active player in this game.

And what, exactly, does this have to do with anything? Anything useful, at any rate.

Going back to DDD's explanation, I'm reading GIEFF 1859 and agreeing with it nicely. To say that GIEFF was thought of as pro-Town throughout the game is quite simply false. For the first 500 posts he consistently had three votes on him; his anti-fan club (Zach, Benmage, Kmd, a side of SpyreX) have been on-and-off voting him throughout. As for being the most active player in the game, I'm really not buying that as a fact or as a worthy reason to push whatever it is you're trying to get across in the above quote.

In comparison,

Actually, let's hold on changing the subject for a moment.
You've now seen two fairly direct references to "cases" on Battle Mage. I'd like to see your response to them.

I would also like to know your *present* opinion of GIEFF, since in voting DDD you took your vote off of him.

So, you're either Beetlejuice or power-lurking scum ex machina.

"Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!"
"Debonair Danny DiPietro!"
I see the resemblance

[Vi]

SpyreX:
one (alex #81)
two (GIEFF 1859)

I've been saying that 1.) we have no obvTown this game and 2.) an active "scummy" player is still going to be far more of a threat than a power lurker which leads to 3.) if GIEFF is town he's a marked man.

I still don't understand WHY you're saying this.
I'm a poor innocent replacement, still scarred from reading 75 pages and expected to remember and fully understand all of it. Please tell me as easily as you can what's going on with this line of thought :bambi:

We need more Kmd and jammer. The offer to freely speak is still available for King DeDæDi.

[Vi]

SpyreX: I know you're reading my posts. Please answer 1954, as not only is there the gist of the most recent case on Battle Mage, but a question that I've been trying to get you to answer for quite the while now.

I show up regularly

How regularly, perchance?

@Zachrulez 1962: Cephrir and bcc were basically equal in scumminess, and I find that Battle Mage's push to get one lynched over the other based on a meta argument (whatever you may think of that argument) betrays a Town mindset.
To contrast, there is a difference in scumpower between Kmd and DDD. I'm grateful for DDD's recent existence, and would like for Kmd to follow suit if possible.

Am I scum, Z?

If the argument is "They are lurking because they don't want to contribute as scum" and they get flat out replaced well that doesn't really serve their win condition as any respectable player doesn't count a game as a win when they get replaced.

I'm arguing against myself here, but this isn't necessarily a failproof line of argument. See B&B-scum in Mafia 89, who lurked his way through five game Days before accidentally not picking up a prod soon enough and getting replaced (by someone else who never posted).

@alexhans 1973: Now that seems to be an uncalled-for post. I would like for you to post a little more though.

@SensFan 1974: Why did you pick those four for the third scum?

Better hope Vi isn't a dayvig.

Vi, are you?

No, I'm the Cop. You were supposed to ask me this as soon as I replaced in, though
Also, it doesn't count if the whole sentence is in all-caps.

Ben, you think maybe if I throw a small fit and self-vote maybe you clowns would see reason?

Nah, Benmage was pretty clearly Town before the meltdown.

I approve of Benmage 1999.

FWIW jammer is posting here about as often as his other games.

Less posting from GIEFF and Benmage, starting right about nao.

[Vi]

@SensFan 1974: Why did you pick those four for the third scum?

[Vi]

I'm curious which ones you have the scum reads on, versus the ones you have left after PoE.

[Vi]

The lack of Kmd in this topic makes me sad.

@alexhans: Benmage is transparent.
You spelled it correctly (though I'm not related to DDD).

@SpyreX: I'm still getting caught somewhere here.
*GIEFF: "BM and SpyreX are setting me up for a mislynch when I'm not dead because they expect me to die."
*You (rebuttal): "IF GIEFF is town he will be a NK before we reach true-lylo."
...this is the same statement from two different viewpoints.

@Battle Mage and the "quicklynch": Yes, Battle Mage was not voting Cephrir at the end of D2. No, he didn't have the chance to do so once the wagon started picking up speed.

This would be a really good time for Battle Mage to post one of his 25-post marathons.

[Vi]

jammer, why GIEFF?

@DDD: Large games are usually for masochists, for reasons I'm sure you've figured out already.

[Vi]

I feel like I'm missing a question still - Vi did you ask me something that I missed?

I still can't understand half of what you're saying, so I'm not sure pointing anything out would make a difference

----

Unvote: Debonair Danny DiPietro
Vote: Kmd4390

(L-4)

GIEFF has points.
Also, lurking.

Do I have to make an avatar bet to get your attention

[Vi]

A guest appearance by the Fan of the Senators would be nice as well, considering I think most of the bloodthirst toward people who evidently need to be bloodthirstily lynched has subsided.

[Vi]

So Kmd, if you were busy, why were you responding to all your other games at the time of that post?

[Vi]

Your posts:

Monday

Mafia 98 (this game)
812
159
96
Death Note

Wednesday

159
/in
788
/in
812
808
812
159
/in
GD
/in
159
812
808
--My post is here--

Thursday

159
812
159
98 (this game)

...well it looked like lurking at the time.

OK, VI.

TRYING TO BYPASS LIKE THAT MAKES YOU LOOK SILLY

Please elaborate on your Battle Mage vote.

[Vi]

Aha ha ha... no.

Unvote: Kmd4390

I was voting Kmd for reactions. Yes, GIEFF had points; no, they weren't convincing IMO. I still want to hear Kmd's justification for his Battle Mage vote though.

In light of the above,

Vote: SensFan

(L-4)
Partly for saying that he agreed with GIEFF's case - which some research would have made look about as flimsy as any other case in this game - and for saying he thought the wagon would go to a lynch... what, because I was on it?

[Vi]

Also, we're not lynching GIEFF on my watch. I'm pretty sure he's Town. But thanks for the resigned L-1 vote

[Vi]

I'm at L-1, so I'll claim. I'm vanilla.

I'll counterclaim that.

Did you see how he acted like he was pretty much lynched after just two votes? Very defeatist.

I did. How does that make him scum?

Debonair Danny DiPietro - Town. He's playing how he did in a lovers game where I got him lynched in LYLO (I was scum in that game). Only shows up when he has a point to make, makes the point, and continues lurking.

SpyreX - Town. This is the same townSpy I've seen in a handful of games.

Not agreeing with you on these in particular. DDD specifically said he tries to play differently in every game. Something has bothered me about SpyreX since I replaced in; everything seems halfhearted.

[Vi]

I sort of agree with that, although if I was in danger of a lynch I'd treat it like a criminal act regardless~

So Kmd, I'm

dying

to know what you think of the rug pull.

[Vi]

You're not at L-1. My dramatic entrance pre-empted your dramatic exit.

[Vi]

So what do you think of the people who are wagoning you now, considering you just got done listing all of them as Town?

[Vi]

ITT, SensFan is ignored (cut: except by GIEFF) and I'm not really sure why.

Also @SpyreX: Your idea of "shifting the wagon off of my main scum pick" is interesting, considering the wagon consisted of:
*Benmage - unvoted due to general posturing between himself and SensFan way before GIEFF posted the Kmd case
*Me - who lost interest in the vote a while ago and wanted to see more of SensFan, Kmd, and jammer
*You - who jumped off the one-person wagon onto a wagon you weren't really confident in considering your "main scum pick" was on it

A three-person wagon - two at the time of GIEFF's post - never larger than the Battle Mage wagon, criminally taken apart by an unrelated case that looks an awful lot like other cases that GIEFF has put up under different benign circumstances. Your stance is ludicrous.

[Vi]

You're voting SensFan for his attitude, or his gameplay?

[Vi]

If it weren't for the fact this was a YawMod game, I'd have requested replacement N0, and absolutely nothing that has happened since has put any more want in me to play this game with people like you.

What is YawMod worth to you? You had more than enough opportunity to skip out D1

as long as you didn't pick up prods

.

I am extremely Town in making this post.

[Vi]

We need more of the dubious characters posting right about now.
By which I mean Battle Mage, Kmd, SpyreX, and jammer.
Some more Zach would be nice too (yes, I see your last post), because that vote post still bothers me.

Unfortunately Search is down right now.

[Vi]

What I am finding interesting is how quickly KMD was run up to lynch -1, and how those same players who seem willing to run up multiple players without much of a care aren't quite as quick to place their vote on Sens.

Making me wonder.

I agree with this.

Question. You seem quite convinced of Gieff being scum, yet your vote finds it's way on DDD. Are you really more suspicious of DDD, or are you voting him because of the perception that he's easier to lynch?

I'm just wondering why you're not willing to vote Gieff is he's quite clearly scum...

I also agree with this.

And I disbelieve basically everything Battle Mage just said.

We still need more SpyreX and jammer. More from Kmd would be nice.

[Vi]

*checks time* Oh well.

I just have this pipe dream that people will freely volunteer their thoughts when they have them. It makes the game much easier.

Of course, if you don't want to make the game easy for me, please say so now. (okay, when you get back)

[Vi]

We need more of the dubious characters posting right about now.
By which I mean Battle Mage, Kmd, SpyreX, and jammer.
Some more Zach would be nice too (yes, I see your last post), because that vote post still bothers me.

Unfortunately Search is down right now.

since when did you consider me a dubious character?

BM

Vi, feel free to answer this.

BM

aquí
And your posts since then have been entirely less than convincing. For instance:

i was voting for

[DDD]

earlier, and nobody was interested.

I see you voting for him in 1572, and unvoting him in favor of alexhans in 1575 -

three posts later

.
In addition, Zachrulez was already voting for DDD at the time.
In addition to that, SpyreX and Benmage voted for DDD afterward but before

it became cool

I did.
Penn and Teller do not approve of this rhetoric.

[Vi]

Um... not really. I'll make another evaluation based on your

GIEFF

vote...

[Vi]

I'm procrastinating procrastinating this game...

DDD seems lynchable, and

he's more likely to be scum than Sens.

Why?

Incidentally, someone else DID join a GIEFF wagon today, so it's not technically correct to say that

nobody

was interested in a GIEFF wagon. That person was SpyreX. Oh hay that name again.

The remark that Battle Mage was kind of thinking that Kmd was scum but OH HAY GIEFF ACCUSED HIM so Kmd must be Town just reeks of following public opinion. Yes, I see the Kmd vote in 1505. It was an active lurker vote. Fairly warranted at the time, but see jammer's question in 2153.

GIEFF's vote on Battle Mage is lame mostly because there's no really good reason to stop voting for SensFan.

I'm looking forward to alexhans getting back and responding to what's gone on.

My question @SensFan in 2122 is actually important as it pertains to this game, and I'd like to have an answer. I'm fairly confident SensFan has been around, so etc.

Why I had GIEFF as a lynch candidate. I do not like the usefull/useless amount. To me seemed he was posting loads to seem town, instead of actually finding scum with any of it.

Ejemplos, por favor

[Vi]

It's really getting difficult to perceive who's scum when everyone's acting the same way (depressed), especially since I think what's important ITT is being lost. If people who are Town could politely

stop acting scummy

I think we could make progress.

So uh SpyreX. How likely are you to vote SensFan?

I'm really not buying this thing about voting/pressuring SensFan for emotive reasons, considering I personally have something of a concrete reason to vote him that seems to have fallen by the wayside >.>

jammer needs to post more and more on topic. I like how I kind of pushed the basis for the GIEFF case out from under jammer's accusation.

Battle Mage's thoughts on Kmd-scum were largely grounded in OMGUS? Nice.

[Vi]

Hmmmm...so only Vi and DDD have posted since my last post. Wierd.

I don't think they've implemented the Ignore User option yet.

It bothers me that SpyreX is doing his best to carve out a difference between myself and Sens, seems like he’s digging for whatever extremely weak justification he can find to support my lynch and not that of Sens. If we could actually get the SpyreX lynch that I’d like and he flips scum I’d have to re-evaluate my stance on Sens.

This feels more or less right. I wouldn't be against a SpyreX lynch at this time anyway.

So you're the fourth person on this wagon too, DDD. Do you think people are justified in seeing that as a scumtell?

[Vi]

Um, Zach. There's a slight difference between the tactics behind the N0 kill and the N3 kill.

[Vi]

EBWOP: Or did you know that already?

@Benmage: I think we get the idea about SensFan. Please lay off for a while.

[Vi]

That may be, but I still find night kill speculation scummy.

Why, as it pertains to this case?

Also, I don't get this recent vote... at all really.

[Vi]

I really dig the I'm scum because I'm looking for REASONS for the lurking instead of just lurkin' on down the choo-choo-train.

Oh, now you can't just post that without dropping the names of these lurker-wagoners.

Well in this case, I really don't see any reason for Sens to assume he won't be night killed, and I feel it's a viable excuse from a scum perspective to explain one's continued survival.

That's... actually very flimsy as far as practical reasoning goes, for reasons already mentioned.

The fact of the matter is your pushes on the SensFan wagon have been seriously reaching, and I've given you too much Town credit for the way you cleared Battle Mage.

That comment was directed at SensFan's vote.

[Vi]

So you're the fourth person on this wagon too, DDD. Do you think people are justified in seeing that as a scumtell?

Internally, I know it's invalid since I know my alignment. Externally, here's my though process on the matter: vote placement analysis to my understanding is primarily predicated on finding a player looking for easy lynches.

I disagree with this, and thus everything after that so I don't have to quote it all.

However, would it be fair to say that you have been jumping on easy lynches? Look at your voting record:

Kairyuu (first vote so etc.)
Cephrir (not there to defend self)
Mastin (not there to defend self, 5th on wagon)
Cephrir (not there to defend self, 3rd on wagon)
Kmd4390 (I'm voting SensFan because he blindly jumped onto the wagon without researching the case, you did the same; 4th on wagon)
Battle Mage (not a terribly contested wagon, 4th on wagon)

[Vi]

I'm not sure if you answered my question, SpyreX, but your rhetoric sounds great! You should be an Obama impersonator. Or is that Porkens' job?

So, its a matter of parsing out WHY and HOW to try and find the actual scum in that mess.

At heart this entire game has been a divide of the spew and the not. This has been, and has stayed true, since I said it early day one.

Specifically I agree with this.

When you take that into conjunction with how quickly the sensfan wagon got traction versus this, which I have brought up before, yes it makes me feel even more comfortable about it.

DDD wagon - Vi, SpyreX, Benmage, maybe Battle Mage
SensFan wagon - Vi, Benmage, Zachrulez, GIEFF
I'm not really seeing it, considering two of these people were on both wagons and I'm fairly confident those two are Town.

@Benmage: I am not willing to lynch DDD today.

You may have answered this already, but it's late at night so I'm going to ask again: Why?

@DDD: I missed your SpyreX vote, sorry. However, to a lesser degree he was also an easy vote. I certainly set up a SpyreX vote with my own suspicions, and he hadn't posted that weekend.

Okay, so people are admitting that what they have done has been scummy. I'll... concede this is a first. Well, may as well go with it~

[Vi]

I'll grant that the wagon built up quickly, but
*I'm pretty convinced Benmage is Town
*I'm more or less convinced I'm Town
*I'm basically convinced GIEFF is Town
*I could go either way with Zachrulez

...so... where are the scum that rushed that wagon? If you're going to cry foul about the SensFan wagon because it was apparently rushed up, surely there must be at least one scum on or near the wagon... or else... there's really nothing wrong with the way it built up aside from it not being your preferred lynch.

The part about alexhans is something you'll have to ask him. alex is being scummy today for no discernible reason.

Now I'd have to ask about your appearance on the Kmd wagon, considering it went up in about the same amount of time. Bear in mind that GIEFF's case on Kmd wasn't really that good if you did much research into it, and your reason for jumping on the wagon was basically to chain lynches.

[Vi]

Any sympathy I'm tempted to have for SensFan is completely undone by his vote lingering on Benmage, who is pretty much obvTown - if going about his wagoning the wrong way.

jammer is a key piece of the puzzle and his absence bothers me.

I think I'm missing something I asked Kmd and didn't think of the last time, but the lack of him is also disturbing. I'd definitely like to know if that vote analysis is a paper tiger - I remember his Battle Mage vote (which he based on said vote analysis) was justified by something else entirely when I asked.

GIEFF's wrongness would be incredibly scummy if he were not consistently wrong in more or less the same manner for over 90 pages.

I wonder how many of us are Town arguing each others' character flaws

ad infinitum

? We have GD for that.

[Vi]

What am I wrong about, Vi?

Should we start with your recent votehopping?
Or the case on Kmd that I've been saying wasn't worth much for a while now?

The general methods of scumhunting you have used throughout the game have been the same and have been applied to more or less everyone, unless I'm mistaken. In addition, the scummy things you have done during the game have been fairly consistent. That strikes me as genuine. Ergo, you win a pass.

----

I retract my earlier statement at the end of 2281 on condition that Yaw rename this thread "General Discussion Mafia".

[Vi]

@mod: Please prod jammer

[Vi]

Prodded. I am way behind. I probably won't get to this game until tomorrow night.

Definitely dubious.
You know why. I know why. Unfortunately, I can't tell anyone else why.

[Vi]

jammer, what happened to your SensFan suspicion?

[Vi]

Thoughts on the previous posts.

SensFan is still voting for obvTown, which is doing nothing to redeem him.

As of this five minutes I'm not interested in a SpyreX wagon and would much rather be looking at the aforementioned dubious characters.

GIEFF's vote analysis is almost completely worthless because there's no conclusion at the end. Likewise with this recent activity analysis.

alexhans 2350 is intriguing.

[Vi]

GIEFF's vote analysis is almost completely worthless because there's no conclusion at the end. Likewise with this recent activity analysis.

Alex requested it, so I posted it.

Alex has voted remarkably infrequently for somebody who posts so much.

And

that

is a good observation.

You can see where my interest is right now.

[Vi]

You are interested in an alex lynch now?

Yes I am.
Realistically, I don't have enough credible material to order a lynch and expect people to go along with it. But there are a couple of flags out that warrant consideration. His static voting pattern is one of them, especially considering the stated reasons for them.

Also, it's a little odd for you to call the analysis useless - if it allows you to make your own conclusions, then it isn't usless at all. Do you see anything interesting in the votes/activity tables, Vi?

If you're putting out the information, you should be the

first

person to draw conclusions from it.
But I'm glad someone else saw what I was picking up on re: alex's votes.

I could go further with this, but before I do that I'd like for SensFan to pick up on the hints that I'd like to know why his vote is on someone who's frankly obvTown.

[Vi]

I could go further with this, but before I do that I'd like for SensFan to pick up on the hints that I'd like to know why his vote is on someone who's frankly obvTown.

Because I don't find him obvTown at all, obviously.

The fact you're so concerned about my voting someone who have a Town read on is worrying.

So do you think I'm scum?

Why is Benmage scum?

[Vi]

I don't "think you're Scum." You know better than to deal in absolutes like that.

Evidently, I don't.
If you don't think I'm scum, or more likely to be scum or whatever, then why do I "worry" you? No idle threats please.

Benmage is Scum for various reasons, many of which I've given over the course of the game.

(#10) Discussion about game balance (where Benmage was in the wrong)
(#35) Lumping Benmage in with alexhans/Mastin/GIEFF/jammer as hindering the game
(#38) Calling him a VI (implying Town?)
(#41) No reason given, but would be a good lynch
**(#43) Writing player-by-player analyses overnight when no sane Townie does so
*(#45) Posting way too often and thus smothering the game
(#50) Lumping Benmage in with alexhans/GIEFF/jammer
*(#56) "Rushing you to vote" because he seems "desperate for a lynch on DDD" by "blatantly misrepresenting" you, DDD, SpyreX, Kmd, and jammer as lurkers
*(#62) Accusing you of withholding votes on cases you agreed with
*(#74) Calling you out for being "useless" and quicklynching Cephrir
*(#77) Asking you to make a Town-case for yourself
(#86) Your most recent vote, for the apparent contradiction of calling you scummy for saying you won't be NKd but agreeing that your death would be pro-Town. Speaking frankly, I think it was a RAGEvote, because it makes no sense after five seconds of thinking about it; there's a coherent thought process running through this "contradiction". And this is what primarily has been bothering me - your vote accomplishes practically nothing, is based in logic that doesn't hold water, and very well could be explained by AtE except you've kept it there. And that's why I'm still voting for you even after half the wagon has moved on to wagon SpyreX (who is hardly the best option available even after taking you out of the picture).

Asterisks are by all the ones that are worth calling a "case". Outside the one that I agree looks suspicious, I don't see how Benmage would be more likely scum than n00b.

tl;dr Your vote and case are unsat.

[Vi]

To explain the last one, since I think its a huge tell:

If he thinks my death would be extremely pro-Town, then surely the Scum also realize that, since its basically guaranteed there's some Scum who have been pushing my wagon, due to the sheer volume of people that have pushed for my lynch. Therefore, the Scum won't kill me. Therefore, I can state I won't be killed, with absolute certainty. So how could that possibly be scummy?

Let's look at it starting from the other end, to be sure:

He thinks its scummy that I'm saying I won't be killed, so he thinks I'll be using that as a reason for why I won't be killed (or, more vaguely, for why Scum kill whoever they do). By that logic, he must think there's at least some sort of chance for me to be killed, since otherwise I won't need to explain why I'm not dieing. So if there's a decent chance of me being scumkilled, then clearly my death wouldn't be all that pro-Town, or else the Scum wouldn't kill me.

Whichever way you look at it, there's no consistency.

If we take away the assumption that you're Town, there's plenty of consistency. Not only would you not be killed, but your death would be good for the Town.

I find it ironic and scummy that no one's made a case on me that I can respond to.

...

----

I give a great value and a lot of thinking to my votes. I don't need to vote someone to question him. I don't need to show I'm active or that I participate by voting everyone in the game.

This reasoning is artificial at worst and counterproductive at best.
If you don't want everyone to forget about Battle Mage-lurker, why not continue referencing your vote on Battle Mage with why it's still there and how he's still the scummiest player in the game?

Considering you just spent quite a bit of time accusing people of just switching around without much explanation, I find that your polar opposite approach is at least as unsatisfying.

This comment is totally worthelss because there's no explanation nor conclusion about it.

Call it a breadcrumb.

Ohhh... But you failed to mention it, right?

And that's why I gave a hint as to what I'm thinking - to prevent you from saying "lol you just came up with that".

In a surprise move, I

don't say everything I'm thinking

to prevent cluttering the thread and losing my own focus.

[Vi]

Because

I have an all-consuming psychological need to be right

your stance doesn't fit the way I see things, and since I find your vote to be scummy of course I'm going to pressure you on it.

Next question. If this is hugely scummy enough to warrant a vote, why does it seem like a throwaway vote in the scheme of things? You're the only person to vote Benmage since his meltdown over 1200 posts ago. You can write a note to yourself to come back to Benmage after you get his more publicly hated scumpartners out.

Alternatively, mention why none of the existing wagons are any good.

[Vi]

ITT, alex misreps me like it's cool.

Moving your vote is awesome. It gives you a stake in the arguments going on

right now

. tbh I don't really care what you think is best on this subject; you're deliberately distancing yourself from what's going on now.

The last time you mentioned Battle Mage outside your catching-up post was the

last

time I asked you about Battle Mage about 500 posts ago (25 alex ISO posts). So, no, you're not referencing your Battle Mage vote.

Having thoughts but choosing to withhold them is not the same as not giving any indication that you're having thoughts.

Something else... wasn't BM all suspicious of jammer? Where did that go?

This is an excellent question. If Battle Mage were not lurking I suppose he could answer it.

[Vi]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how little sense you make.

"That's it. I've caught you in a boldfaced lie, and I'm done speaking to you and you should burn burn burn, but if I'm wrong I'm already prepared to blame someone else."

[Vi]

Moving your vote is awesome. It gives you a stake in the arguments going on right now. tbh I don't really care what you think is best on this subject; you're deliberately distancing yourself from what's going on now.

HOW?! HOW?! How?! I've given my opinions... I won't join a SensFan waggon or a SpyreX waggon or a DDD waggon to be where the action is...

Then say why not.

The last time you mentioned Battle Mage outside your catching-up post was the last time I asked you about Battle Mage about 500 posts ago (25 alex ISO posts). So, no, you're not referencing your Battle Mage vote.

FYI, BM means Battle Mage and FYI means for your information... Check again.

I did. I should clarify.
The last time you mentioned Battle Mage

in terms of why you're voting him

, etc.
And I did miss one, alex #141. It surprised me at the time too because you hadn't said much about Battle Mage at the time.

I'm going to drop this argument for now, partly because Battle Mage is fairly indefensible all on his own.

-----

I don't view alex's comment as a slip because (cut) of what alex just said. However,

Fuck

we

? Let us lose?

The bolded should be "us"~

-----

VI

Daykill: alexhans

[Vi]

Ohh wow I missed this:

When I asked ONE question how in the hells could I have fabricated anything unless it was just absolutely me shooting rainbows out of my eyes?

ITT, SpyreX has eye lasers.

[Vi]

@SpyreX: I don't think you caught what I was saying there. I'm not buying that it's a slip.

I'm also not really buying that more than one of the people posting today is scum.

[Vi]

As for the bottom is that an elaborate way of saying there are multiple scum in: KMD, Jammer, Battle Mage?

Don't leave out DDD. But yes.

The people here that I know are good players, namely Vi and GIEFF, I think are probably Scum, since neither of them are playing anywhere near the level I know they can as it relates to me.

?

Zach has a good point in 2435. If some poor soul is going to have to join us in Purgatory and pick up the pieces, we'd like for your vote to become mobile sooner rather than later.
And there's less shame IMO in requesting /out than deliberately flaking.

[Vi]

And now for something that's going to look horrible.

My vote has been mostly to keep SensFan's attention for the past few pages. Since I'm not getting responses any more, it's time to vote one of the people I've been calling scum for about that length of time.

Unvote: SensFan
Vote: Battle Mage

(L-2)

A Kmd lynch would be about equivalent IMO.

Benmage, you can stop laying into SensFan now.

[Vi]

I thought DDD posted today?

I must have missed it. Oh well.

@GIEFF: I didn't like your case, but after taking another look I still think he's been scummy.
For one, I know he's lurking aboot.
For two, he's yet to explain this vote count analysis that's driving his actions.

[Vi]

Good gravy what is with all the reactionary voting?

I don't have all the answers through conventional means, so I'm trying scummier approaches.
This one is a real vote, promise~

@Benmage: I know. Enough people have said as much.

[Vi]

'Told 'jas that post would look bad. Oh well.

@GIEFF: I didn't like your case, but after taking another look I still think he's been scummy.

Summary of his scummy actions, please?

Also, do you like a Spy lynch?

Read the two lines directly under the one you quoted, please.

A SpyreX lynch would be okay. I'm more interested in not lynching people I have Town reads on at this point.

Didn't you state an interest in lynching Alex just yesterday? Voting Battle Mage seems really weird in light of that.

Yes.
Under the theory that I was working with, Battle Mage + alexhans was not impossible.

After alex's outburst, I'm left to consider one of two options.
1) alex is not scum
2) The scum in this game can do some reasonably impressive AtEs.

I've no intention of voting for either mage. They are both sill pretty damn obvTown to me.

In the case of Battle Mage, how so?

[Vi]

I don't remember a Day 1 gambit.
The reason behind picking Cephrir vs. bcc is a solid point in his favor.
I'm not sure what to say of the "general feel" of Battle Mage's posts - as mentioned before, he's very hit-or-miss.

I totally didn't notice who was on the wagon when I voted that way. Yes, I voted with the largest wagon available. Right now there's too much conflicting information and I'm losing my ability to care who gets lynched.

For instance, First Post Mind H4x rates this as one of the scummiest posts early D1. alexhans is partly saved by his case on Battle Mage, which makes sense

buuuuuut

there are the terribly obvTown things Battle Mage has done when he's not contradicting himself or hiding out. Meanwhile Battle Mage is putting quite a bit of time into attacking

everyone

GIEFF, who I'm reading as Town because he's being extremely active in a game where there's little scum incentive to be as active as he has been.
There's Kmd, who's most definitely lurking (V/LA be darned) and still hasn't adequately explained himself, but nobody wants to vote him and since he isn't incredibly opportunistic when he does post nobody cares. DDD is unrepentantly apathetic about the game and likes voting on late on wagons but everyone says he's like this normally and to a degree he's a sympathetic figure. Then there's you, SpyreX, who likes to say really scummy things about people yet you manage to come off sounding decent when you're not trying to chain-lynch people. Last, there's jammer the absent who says vaguely fluffy things and goes with the flow but because there are more pressing people to lynch he gets passed on. And whoever I've forgotten has their own mixed signals that etc.

So frankly I'm having a hard time with this. I've got a vote spreadsheet in front of me and it's not helping much because people are playing in such ways that it casts them as outliers (hence why I'm interested in seeing Kmd's analysis, and it had better be good). Nobody's jumping out as obvscum except the people I've specifically mentioned as such. No matter who I vote, I'm going to be agreeing with people I also want to see lynched. Furthermore, no matter who I vote, I'm going to have misgivings about it and I'm sure people will come back and say "well didn't you say earlier that etc.".

Now that I've given you something to quote and respond to with "wall of nothing lol" or take unreasonable offense to, I'll go back to not taking this game seriously.

Unvote: Battle Mage

I'm willing to believe for now that my previous vote was in the wrong. Conveniently, this should also give some of you something to gripe about, which etc.

If you don't like that unvote, convince me to vote with you. I'm done with my independent thought for a while.

[Vi]

Ohh yea:

Vi, you seem clear on KMD lurking versus V/LA lately. Can you expand without breaking THE RULES?

Not really. But I think we should have gotten something not only the day Kmd posted that he was behind, but also the day before that.

@jammer: Absolutely. What you post is sparse and tends to seem like filler.
Are you still for a DDD lynch? Do you have any alternatives in mind?

Hey Zach. Am I scum? (You're welcome to answer this when you're done with GIEFF if you like)

@GIEFF: While I'm grateful for the thought, and I've already had my one scum game for this half of the year, and you're more than welcome to call me probTown like I'm doing with Benmage, saying that you're going to lose if I'm scum when we're not even in LyLo is ridiculous.

[Vi]

I am leaning that way. Your latest posting antics give me the vibe you are daring us to do something about your play. (As you even admit that abandoning the sens wagon looks really bad.)

If I know it will look bad, why not go ahead and acknowledge it?
It's your choice as to whether it's scummy in the scheme of things, but I'm showing that I'm not trying to pull a fast one.

[Vi]

@GIEFF: If I were prepared to vote for someone, I would be by now.

I think I'm missing something I asked Kmd and didn't think of the last time, but the lack of him is also disturbing. I'd definitely like to know if that vote analysis is a paper tiger - I remember his Battle Mage vote (which he based on said vote analysis) was justified by something else entirely when I asked.

Actually, my BM vote was based on his defeatist attitude after just 2 votes, not the analysis.

GIEFF, VC analysis is Vote Count Analysis. I did it earlier and it gave

BM

, Black, Alex, Zach, GIEFF, and Jammer as the most likely scum candidates if I remember correctly. My VC analysis ignores context and looks purely at the end of day vote counts. I've found it quite effective in the past.

Vote Battle Mage because conspiracies are fun. Actually,

my VC analysis had him as scum

and his reaction to 2 votes is just terrible.

, etc.

[Vi]

Most people are scummier than Vi. Everyone but you. Maybe Benmage.

I like how i've become accepted town by so many. I feel satisfied and accomplished. Like i did something right. Maybe i did something terribly wrong it became right .

There is a flip side to transparency, y'know...
If you're notTown, it's just as easy to find you.

I'd like to wait for Kmd to finish before placing a vote, as long as I don't have to wait for very long.

[Vi]

ITT, a conspicuous lack of Battle Mage. A certain sitewide rule is seriously hindering my style right now.

Also, Kmd continues to deliver at a rate normally associated with ketchup coming out of a bottle. I understand time constraints, etc., but get to the stuff that matters.

@SpyreX: I'm not seeing scum-by-association logic. Not with the better part of the case, at least.

[Vi]

I'm looking at this discourse of not applying the same standards to DDD and I and the natural exposition that GIEFF thinks DDD is town and I am scum so if Jammer thinks DDD is scum and I am town...

That's not the "better part" of the case IMO...

Although, said sitewide rule could be applied on both sides thus far.

?

[Vi]

Thats the point I keep seeing belabored into the ground in the last couple pages - the "extra" tells via me and DDD.

Tell me if this is about right, because this deep understanding is the result of PowerSkimming^TM.
---
jammer: So DDD is scum because of this and this, along with a more full case I'll put together later.
<later>
GIEFF: So what full case?
jammer: lol, what full case? I got bored.
GIEFF: So... do you have any more points than the ones you offered?
jammer: What was wrong with the two I mentioned earlier? (implication: I don't even know where to begin with the other points!)
GIEFF: k

vote

jammer: retard, lrn2read
GIEFF: lol u
---
That the case involves you or DDD in particular really doesn't matter.

I haven't seen anything of BM sans putting up the locked thread for his new game, so...

Lots of preparation for that game, nothing going on here. His last post ITT was Tuesday, and you know he's been around. I'm calling lurk-mode, since with

three

two people calling for his lynch and a few more who wouldn't be opposed to it, there's reasonable incentive for him to not be here.

[Vi]

Anywho, the wife is demanding summer cleaning. Weep for me.

*checks*
Once again I terribly misjudge age over the Internet.

[Vi]

How old did you think I AM?

Sheesh

My age, give or take.

[Vi]

Hmm. I guess I'm young at heart (or words).

You know what they say about age being mandatory and maturity being optional.

Why

[would your lynch be equivalent to Battle Mage's]

?

Lurking is serious business. Specifically:

Lurking has happened in all of my games due to RL.

While I'm not denying this, I have to question the varying extents of said lurking. (Plus, it's not lurking if you're not actually there, right?)

What do I still need to explain about the analysis?

What

have

you explained about the analysis?

unvote

Will catch up soonish.

You said that last time too.

[Vi]

What

have

you explained about the analysis?

Whatever is in the post where I did it.

Oh, so nothing.

[Vi]

Soooooooo why are the two people I want to hear from most only posting

elsewhere

on the site?

[Vi]

It seems like my previous comment about Battle Mage and Kmd being equivalent was pretty on-target after all, considering neither of them can back up what they've said.

Vote: Kmd4390

(L-5)

[Vi]

What about your earlier claim that my case on KMD was poor, Vi?

And what about how quickly KMD was run up to L-1?

You or someone have asked both of these questions already, IIRC.

I like my case better, simply put.
For now, while it's pretty possible that there was at least one scum on the wagon, it's not definite - and even if so, it doesn't preclude Kmd from being scum.

Are you defending Kmd? If so, why?

[Vi]

I find it odd that Vi heavily criticized me for not posting, and has now failed to even comment that I've been posting, let alone ask me questions.

I can tell from reading the thread that you've been posting. In addition, between me calling you out for not posting and your RAGEsortaquit, you were fairly active ITT.

The only question I have for you right now would be: What value should we assign to your dramatic exit as far as whether it's a Town-tell?

[Vi]

I'm more attacking your reasoning than defending KMD, but it's a little of both. YOU hopped on a wagon and then hopped off claiming the case was poor and you were just looking for reactions. YOU lamented about how quickly he was brought to L-1, and now you're back on the wagon again, due in large part to lurking? I do think the VC analysis is arbitrary, but don't understand why you think it makes KMD scum.

On one hand we have lurking. On the other hand we have scumhunting theories based on information that I doubt exists. Where's the redeeming value?

Jammer is lurking just as much as KMD. KMD has 15 posts in this last week, and 14 the week before that.

jammer has 11 posts in this last week, and 5 in the week before that. And I have questions directly to him that he hasn't answered. He hasn't posted in this thread in almost 72 hours.

Not contested; however, it is more difficult to judge jammer's "lurking" versus limited access considering if I saw him anywhere else on the site, I would be more likely to pick up on it.

With that said, I'm not against jammer's lynch. I'm just not going to rush for it.

You claimed your first vote on KMD was just for reactions. Did you get the reactions you were looking for? What did they tell you?

Um, why do you think I voted SensFan in the first place?

[Vi]

Spyrex, DDD, and Sens all voted KMD after you did, Vi. And they all did it within 2 hours of your vote.

You think all of these players are scummy, right?

For now, while it's pretty possible that there was at least one scum on the wagon, it's not definite - and even if so, it doesn't preclude Kmd from being scum.

You really have no problem with voting the same person that three scummy people quick-bandwagoned up to L-1?

I've heard something terribly similar already today. That was... SpyreX 2457.
And considering I'm the only vote on Kmd right now, no, I don't.

Me having the only vote on Kmd puts an interesting flavor on this. Why are you defending Kmd from this single vote? I've stated why my vote's there, and I've even answered your objections before you asked them.

[Vi]

And immediately after Spyrex's 2457, you unvoted, said you didn't realize that those scummy people were also on the wagon, said you were confused, and were going to give up your independent thought for a little while.

And after that I saw that both of them are still doing the same scummy things that made me want to vote them in the first place. So I changed my mind. I'm impulsive like that.

[jammer, deadline, etc., etc.]

Once again. I'm not against jammer's lynch. However, not only is this the first time that anyone's ever publicly thought of a deadline in this game, but it's in

six days

. This is not the time to write off the Day as a done deal or emergency-cancel all scumhunting.

[Vi]

I like my case better, simply put.

There's a case? I thought it was a playstyle thing because I use gut.

So it's not vote count analysis; it's intuition now?

Riiiiiiiight.

FTR, I'm leaving in about 4 hours (and plan to sleep somewhere in that time period) and won't be home for a couple of days. Then on Friday, I'm probably going to be as inactive as you will ever see me on MS. It will be in my sig shortly.

Convenient.

[Vi]

So... did KMD pretty much state an intention to lurk through the deadline? Cause that's the way I apparently interpreted the end of his last post.

So now that you're egging on the Kmd-hate, what are you doing about it?

[Vi]

And from my experience from playing with him in 150, I can pretty much attest to the fact that his play here is pretty much on par to what did there.

He was also a very convenient lynch target in that game too. Something that's resonating as you are pushing on him.

You couldn't just defend yourself from wafting suspicion onto someone without wafting suspicion onto someone else, could you~

My experience with Kmd involves him actually explaining his "vote count analysis".

[Vi]

And from my experience from playing with him in 150, I can pretty much attest to the fact that his play here is pretty much on par to what did there.

He was also a very convenient lynch target in that game too. Something that's resonating as you are pushing on him.

You couldn't just defend yourself from wafting suspicion onto someone without wafting suspicion onto someone else, could you~

I guess not. I guess ignoring the behavior and allowing KMD to lurk without being called on it to actually post is preferable...

That was almost a clever straw man of what I said.

My experience with Kmd involves him actually explaining his "vote count analysis".

You can't seriously expect me to take that statement at face value when my own experience says something else can you?

And so you see the impasse we're at.

[Vi]

And while we're on the subject of lurking, it seems to be something that DDD, Battle Mage, and Jammer are enjoying the cover of while the deadline comes through too.

How's that for wafting around suspicion?...

That depends. Do you have evidence that jammer and DDD are onsite but not posting here? Battle Mage, no contest (see below).

Actually on the subject of my irritation of all the lurking lately, I just noticed that Battle Mage has generally been quite active in this game up to about a few days ago and has suddenly seemed to have stopped posting in a regular basis.

So one wonders what has suddenly promoted this lack of participation?

I hope you don't think you're the first person to say something about this. <_<

This push from zach feels fake on my end, partly because he hasn't done anything like it up to this point IIRC. In advance, no, I don't care what conflicts of interest that would create.

@Vi, the case on KMD is lurking and not explaining the VC-analysis?

@vi, Zach, out of BM, me and DDD who would you like to see lynched most?

1) Essentially.
2) Battle Mage.

[Vi]

Vi, it's both. Gut and placement of votes.

Apparently there's a miscommunication here. I'm going to say this in no uncertain terms for you in such a way that you cannot miss it.

---EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE COUNT ANALYSIS---

Thank you.

Vi/Zach, are you seriously suggesting that I'm going V/LA from the entire site for two weeks to do something I'd never do (intentionally lurk) in one game?

I'm sure the V/LA is for unrelated reasons; however, that doesn't stop it from being convenient, considering you're still dodging a very direct

question

demand.
Besides, I've seen you lurk in this game already.

[Vi]

What do you want him to explain about the vote-count analysis, Vi?

How it's guiding his scumpicks in Zachrulez, alexhans, Battle Mage, and whoever else I may have forgotten.

[Vi]

It's in Post 1492. Read it yourself.

You didn't have to tell me to read it myself, but thank you for the advice. One must wonder why someone else had to point me to it, and why it wasn't worth re-explaining. I mean,

Most of those are gut reads or things I've been over. If you want a line or two that badly, I'll do it when my head is more clear. Just let me know.

This kind of stalling has been going on for quite a while now.

The short version of my opinion of the analysis is that
*Over half the game is on the scum list
*The list uses inconsistent reasoning, as evidenced by only one of four people on both wagons being considered for being scum
*The list has

non sequitur

conclusions considering the top of the list was taken by blackcatcontract for "distancing from both lynches"
*Therefore the list is less an analysis than an attempt to lend credence to intuitive Town reads on Benmage, SensFan, DDD, and SpyreX.

Notice also.

1-2 scum on

[my own wagon]

. Order of likliness:
DDD
Spy

Vi

Sens

GIEFF

.

Bolded are the people who were on his previous scumlist. You work this one out.

Counterpoint.

Lynches I'd definitely support:

Zach
BM

Lynches I'd support if the first two can't happen:

Alex
Jammer

[DDD]

Spy

Again, bolded were mentioned earlier.

-----

I'm not convinced, but it's enough for this five minutes.

Unvote: Kmd4390
Vote: Battle Mage

(L-2)

-----

It's time for the Debonair Leo DiCaprio show, now that a jammer wagon is growing. Would you prefer jammer, or Battle Mage? and why?

[Vi]

I agree KMD's analysis is arbitrary, Vi - what I don't get is what you expect KMD to say about it.

Why did you unvote KMD, Vi?

Saying something that would convince me of his position is always a good hope. While the post you linked gave me an answer, it didn't deliver in that regard.

I unvoted Kmd because I know he's not going to stop stalling today, he's not going to get a lynching wagon, and his stance is consistent enough that it's not worth the struggle to decry his existence.

[Vi]

Vi, I don't remember anything more than where I usually look in final vote counts. Look where those names were. That's as much as I remember about it.

As much as you remember about it now, or as much as you remembered at the time?

What are you trying to show by bolding names that I mentioned before?

Consistency in opinions, or the lack thereof.

Why is SensFan still voting Benmage?

If Kmd and Zach are both Town I think I'm going to be ill.

[Vi]

I

was

looking at Vi as town

?

Also, why unvote?

[Vi]

And your read on me now is...?

Why don't you want jammer lynched today?

[Vi]

I think you're less town than you were, but more town than most.

The last time I checked, alignment was not a sliding scale.

There are better options than a jammer lynch, Vi. Do you like a jammer lynch?

I wouldn't mind it, but it's not my top choice for the moment.
Please answer my question.

[Vi]

Scratch first part of the previous post. I don't wish to argue that.

[Vi]

SpyreX did some scummy things but is much more active and logical than BM.

Does this make SpyreX less likely to be scum than Battle Mage?

[Vi]

As for the second part. This actually bothers me. I am not going to fake real-life issues

to flake out of a game

. That is more than a little insulting.

"Out-of-game irritation" was used to justify your L-1 vote on Kmd, not your lurking behavior. (SpyreX #76)

If it comes down to me getting lynched over that (which I doubt) then ultimately that's kool and the gang - no way you'd avoid the lynch tomorrow. Which brings the dominoes falling down.

The prospect of a mislynch was clearly not enough to justify yourself; apparently you had to raise the stakes with the

possibility

guarantee of a revenge lynch if he's wrong.

People are wrong all the time. Scum are intentionally wrong; Townies, unintentionally so and more often so. By threatening the major proponent of your lynch with full responsibility

that would necessarily include a counterlynch

, you've crossed the line into unacceptability. Never mind that you would necessarily have no way of enforcing that threat unless you had scumpartners to back you up.

I am now willing to support a SpyreX lynch today without reservations. In fact, why not--

Unvote: Battle Mage
Vote: SpyreX

(L-3)

[Vi]

Hey Battle Mage, you're only useless if you say you are. At least wait until Night before you sign off/get a replacement/die/etc.

Hidden message included in the above: Get back here and post like the rest of us prisoners

[Vi]

Because at heart -

this "case" wasn't genuine.

Parts of it were removed from context and other parts were built on conjecture that never happened.

I'm missing context, information, or something. Could you explain to me what this is about?

The hell I'm a lurker? Awesome.

Poor choice of words on my part.
Change "your lurking behavior" to "your three-day hiatus" and continue.

If I get lynched today and turn up town are you* really going to a.) be surprised when GIEFF is alive tomorrow and b.) go "ohh hey that lynch yesterday, you know the one that happened with like 4 days to go, that was a mislynch? Yea, that guy that started it - totally town because town can make mistakes."

"Totally Town"? You insult me. Besides, there would be four other people on that wagon besides myself and GIEFF. Pinning all of the blame on GIEFF seems rather unfair, ne?

Yes. If I die looking at the circumstances the chance of this being scum-driven are high. So, yes, I'm calling him out on it

when I am still alive

to make reference to it.

As I would be dead I couldn't "enforce" that threat. However, if I am scum how the hell could I have partners back up a threat built on the premise I am town?

Please elaborate on "these circumstances".

And the answer to the second line - you can't. Thus, you have no room to insist that GIEFF is going to unavoidably get lynched tomorrow if you flip Town. Is it possible? Sure. Is it inevitable? Of course not.

[Vi]

Closer we get to deadline the more everything seems to fall apart. I'm down with the SpyreX lynch, but my new concern is that he'll show up, deliver a nice AtE like we've seen from about four other people in this game and suddenly everyone will change their mind again.

Whose lynch are you not "down with", out of curiosity?

[Vi]

I'm not ready to respond to the above yet.
But before I forget, *sets out Kmd bait*

[Vi]

At this point I'm running on liquid hatred (it's great stuff!), and between various Mafia commitments and grading hundreds of papers it's starting to run dry.

Hmm. This is a bit of a... swing vote? If BM is scum, here's a connection. If Spy is scum, Vi is very likely town.

Shouldn't you save these for AFTER the alignment flips?
On that note, what do you think of GIEFF, who started this case near deadline as BM approached L-1?

GIEFF's relentless persecution of SpyreX has gone beyond reasonable inquisition. In addition to this relentless hammering on a weak point in an attempt to... what? Convince SpyreX he's scum? we have gems like

I know camn was very upset with this game - it was noble of you to release her from her obligation.

which go beyond trying to find the truth and go into harrying someone into submission.

So how about this. I'll keep my vote on you, SpyreX, and pending your Town flip I'll go after GIEFF tomorrow without question or hesitation. I'll even do my best to wagon him to a lynch.

Unless Kmd or Zach distract me.

Capisce?

[Vi]

I know there's a good explanation for this...

Cut by Zach. Fancy meeting you here.

[Vi]

Again, I'm sure there's a good explanation for this sudden Get Out Of Game Free pass, among them being:
*spite (well, it worked for SensFan, Kmd4390, DDD, SpyreX, Battle Mage, and to a more forgivable degree Benmage and alexhans...)
*gambiting (lol, if ViyreX wants to vote me so badly this is just the right chance! Watch and see if it happens)
*doublegambiting (lol, if I actually get to L-1 I'm going to unvote at deadline)
*making it that much harder to get a lynch on anyone (self-explanatory)

As I'm fairly confident GIEFF is still around, I'm waiting on the explanation. It's tempting to consider that this topic has turned into a secret competition of who can get out of playing as soon as possible, but I don't think that's the case here.

The rest is just the usual Mafia in Wonderland.

Cosmic question: Why do you (Zachrulez) only seem to show up when something dramatic happens, and then disappear for a while again?

GIEFF may have started the case, but your switch put Spy over BM.

I already know about the swing-vote tell.
What kinds of "connections" would you ascribe to GIEFF-SpyreX/Battle Mage?

[Vi]

No satisfying response from either party. Let's raise the stakes.

SpyreX. Deadline is approaching very quickly, and both of the people you have been calling scum all day have one vote on them (not including your own). My vote is yours. Use it wisely. Be prepared to explain your decision and accept responsibility for the outcome.

Unvote: SpyreX
Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

(L-3)

Since this has more to do with my availability, and/or my desire to do things other than post on mafiascum every 5 minutes, I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for here.

An honest answer would be nice.
Unfortunately I have no way of judging that, so... actually, I'm not sure what kind of answer I'm looking for. But that's the point in asking sometimes.

[Vi]

Is that midnight as in 23.2something hours from now, or one more day than that?

[Vi]

...Fascinating.

@Benmage: Jebus isn't playing this game.
Also, your vote on SpyreX is being wasted. Change it.

Talking of wasted votes, it would be satisfying for our two nonplayers to replace out overnight if they're really having such trouble with this game. Said replacements can just be told to skim Day 3 for everyone's positions. If they really need to catch up immediately, they can just read this post
Alternatively, they can come back and play ASAP.

We have nine mobile votes and need six for a majority. If {Battle Mage, SensFan} are both Town and one Townie wastes their vote, that means the only thing stopping scum from controlling this lynch is how good they would look doing it.

I'm willing to wager that at most one of the scum in this game has been a leading wagon for over 200 posts, and that more specifically at least two of the scum is between {alexhans, GIEFF, Zachrulez, Kmd4390, DDD, SpyreX, jammer}.

Both mages may as well be off-limits tomorrow. Battle Mage has been at three votes for most of this Day; he doesn't need to be at three votes tomorrow.

If GIEFF flips scum {SensFan, SpyreX, jammer, possibly Battle Mage} are probTown. I haven't decided what it means for DDD and Zachrulez at this time, but they can argue their own merits.
Likewise DDD-scum implies {SpyreX, jammer} are probTown.

It is not impossible for GIEFF and DDD (the only lynch choices at this point) to both be scum; however, I would expect that if that is not the case the lynch will be against a Town player today. (See previous comment about scum controlling this lynch.)

With that said, the more I read into these connections the more I want to see GIEFF lynched today. Having his alignment pegged down would do analyses a world of good.

[Vi]

This is amusing, albeit in a sick way.

You're only looking at half the equation there, champ. What do you learn if I flip town?

Nothing except what this wagon provides... although this wagon is already useful.
BTW, DDD-Town implies SpyreX-scum.

(the only lynch choices at this point)

That is not your decision to make.

You're right. It's the deadline's decision to make.
We have less than twelve hours if I'm reading Yaw's post correctly.

This is EXACTLY the same arbitrary case you were just railing on KMD about making, Vi. Exactly.

It's not, actually. The only similarity is that half the game is on the hit list.

How many times have people accused me of distracting from lynches? How many times has it been true?

It's hard to distract from lynches when you're on most of the lynching wagons~

I think DDD is an acceptable lynch, better than me, at this point. I hate lynching yet ANOTHER lurker, but I may have defended him too strongly, enabling him to lurk more. I'd MUCH rather lynch Spyrex or Sens.

I'm assuming this is more satire.

Notice how scared Spyrex was to vote me, even when I became the leading wagon?

Somewhat. Had SpyreX posted after my offer but before you came back, I would have gotten a better read.

C'est la vie.

----

And, seriously, no one other than Zach noted my Battle Mage unvote?

I noticed. Your smalltext commentary bothered me, but not enough to mention.

----

Hey Zach. Could you explain your thought process on jumping to GIEFF and back?

----

My opinions remain unchanged and my offer to SpyreX is not rescinded.
As it is, it seems like we're on a crash course for either No Lynch or Any Lynch We Can Get... which is somehow worse than the two lynches we've already had. But don't say I didn't warn you.

Unofficial vote count

DDD (L-3) - SpyreX, jammer, Vi
SpyreX (L-3) - Benmage, GIEFF, Zachrulez

Battle Mage (L-5) - Kmd4390
jammer (L-5) - alexhans
Benmage (L-5) - SensFan
GIEFF (L-5) - DDD

Not Voting: Battle Mage

[Vi]

I think that is one day more then the 12 hours you are speaking of, vi?

I can never remember which day midnight is a part of. Either way, we're way too close to the deadline.

Zach. Outside that one self-vote, how scummy is GIEFF IYO?

[Vi]

Unvote, Vote: GIEFF

Unvote: Debonair Danny DiPietro
Vote: GIEFF

(L-3)

[Vi]

Oh, alexhans, before I forget.

That list of seven was of all the people who have not been wagoned for over 200 posts.
However, to say that I favor them equally would be in error - those seven are just the pool of people I think you should consider tomorrow regardless of how you believe.

If you want my opinion, as of this five minutes I do not favor a jammer lynch, and wouldn't be up for lynching you. Obviously I'm not interested in going for SpyreX today. That cuts it down to two in four, with two of them being viable non-SpyreX lynch candidates right now.

[Vi]

Yaw, could you please prod the living Satan out of Battle Mage and SensFan?

What am I thinking. Battle Mage being absent at this point is inexcusable.

[Vi]

13 hours, 20 minutes.

[Vi]

I'm torn on Gieff. On the one hand, he is a very competent player regardless of affiliation, and his activity here is not a towntell by any means. But, i dont see scumbuddies bussing him, when he is such a powerful player.

The way his wagon has formed lately leads me to believe he could be town.

Elaborate

por favor

.

[Vi]

I'm torn on Gieff. On the one hand, he is a very competent player regardless of affiliation, and his activity here is not a towntell by any means. But, i dont see scumbuddies bussing him, when he is such a powerful player.

The way his wagon has formed lately leads me to believe he could be town.

Elaborate

por favor

.

[Vi]

U. Vote Count:

SpyreX (L-2) - Benmage, Zachrulez, GIEFF, Battle Mage
GIEFF (L-2) - DDD, SpyreX, Vi, jammer
Otherwise wasting their votes: SensFan, Kmd4390, alexhans

11 hours.

[Vi]

Vi. Please vote Spyrex.

Maybe later.

[Vi]

Come 6ish PST (9ish EST) if need be to stop this from going to a damn nolynch I will vote myself. Which will mean that Vi should hop over.

Right you is, grammer lord.

Everyone should already know who I want to see dead right now. (Aside from "everyone else in general".)

I agree that SensFan is getting too much credit but

there's not very much we can do about it

because he refuses to post and refuses to replace out, leaving us with the option of either letting that vote stay nulled or going for yet another dubious low-risk low-return lynch like we've had for the previous two Days.

[Vi]

I swear people live for making me eat my words like that. But whatever works.

[Vi]

Vi, please think for yourself - which of us is scummier?

For this:

And Vi is just tying his vote to Spyrex's, trying to remove him of all responsibility for where it lands. Very, very anti-town play.

You. Easily.
By giving my vote away I am assuming considerable responsibility for whatever SpyreX does (especially in the event that he is scum), not passing it away from myself. Any other stance is delusional and irresponsible at best.
Aside from that, I have repeatedly said that YOU are my preferred lynch at deadline. So, right, I'm absolutely shying away from this GIEFF vote that I've been

so

forced into - in whatever Bizarro world you live in.

Also, correct me if I'm entirely wrong, but the case you've been pushing on SpyreX (as far as what's stuck) has rung to me like:
"OMG SpyreX put Kmd at L-1 after DDD"
"WTF SpyreX put Kmd at L-1 after DDD"
"4SRS SpyreX put Kmd at L-1 after DDD"
If I'm wrong on this, please let me know

yesterday

. Either way, it's pretty obvious you're flinging accusations wherever you can land them and seeing which ones stick.

[Vi]

And to head off GIEFF's counter before he makes it.

By giving my vote away I am assuming considerable responsibility for whatever SpyreX does (especially in the event that he is scum), not passing it away from myself.

SpyreX. Deadline is approaching very quickly, and both of the people you have been calling scum all day have one vote on them (not including your own). My vote is yours. Use it wisely. Be prepared to explain your decision

and accept responsibility for the outcome.

These are not mutually exclusive statements.

[Vi]

Aside from that, I have repeatedly said that YOU are my preferred lynch at deadline.

Not until my self-vote.

There was something else that happened at about the same time, but you already referenced it in another post. However, in bringing that up before I made mention of the subject myself you're implicitly suggesting that I'm Town for how that in particular has changed my mind about you.
Wwwwwwwhich brings up the question of why you're pressuring me on the subject in the first place.

And if you're really so happy with your GIEFF vote, why go through all the shenanigans of trying your vote to Spyrex's?

One, to see what he would do with it. (yes, reactions)
Two, because I think you're pushing a shoddy case on him (the shoddiness of which you haven't bothered to disagree with).
Three, because I'm tired of the back-and-forth wagons and needed a way to keep my opinion set. Yes, I did it partly for myself. However, if I were not content with where SpyreX's vote was, rest assured I would have let you know by now.

You are saying "My vote is yours spyrex - do with it what you will." How is that not you distancing yourself from that vote?

If you or whoever get lynched by SpyreX's supervote, of course I'm going to be implicated for
1) trusting SpyreX with the vote when theoretically I could have made a better decision on my own (not applicable in this case, but etc.)
2) not breaking the agreement if I disagreed with it
3) giving my vote to SpyreX in the first place if his alignment is not what I think it is.

Furthermore, suppose that I

were

trying to distance myself from my vote. Nobody would ever buy that kind of an excuse. You know that, I know that, there are very few people who

wouldn't

know that. There's no point in suggesting that I'm going to try and put up a smokescreen before it happens, because not only are the chances of that happening close to nil, if it did happen, people would see right through it without your input.

In other words, you're doing as much or more grandstanding than me.

[Vi]

One big mistake. Its "accusation" that I freely admitted to.

(Well, it IS true...)

So,

Vi

, in the event that you are alive tomorrow and I end up getting to lynch myself. Please, PLEASE make sure he hangs for this.

Like you had to tell me that.
Why just address that at me, though?

[Vi]

Really would like to see Spyrex lynched here, really don't want to see a Gieff lynch personally. I don't like the speed of the bandwagon or the people on it.

^^^^^^

Explica por favor

(Is it

Me explica

or

Explicame

? Nobody said my Spanish education was very good...)

[Vi]

Wagons that build out of nothing to lynch -1 as quickly as Gieff's did are much more likely to have scum on them IMO.

At the time of your SpyreX vote, the people voting GIEFF on this apparent Miracle-Gro wagon were:
*GIEFF
*DDD
*you

Rrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

As for timewise, GIEFF went to L-1 in 83 posts with SensFan's vote.
SpyreX went to L-1 in 86 posts with alex's vote.
In addition, since your vote on SpyreX the GIEFF wagon has never been larger than the SpyreX wagon.

Got any better excuses?

[Vi]

Also @alex: What is "explain this to me"?

Me explica este

...

Lo me explica

... I'm not doing a good job with this.

Spy-town would NOT be so certain I am scum.

Evidence is where?

@Zachrulez: Actually, that is correct. My mistake.
That does nothing to invalidate everything else in that post, so again: Got any better excuses?

[Vi]

Vi

pushed

a bit too hard here. He went from thinking I am town to voting me and adamantly pushing my lynch very quickly.

And you even know why. But at this point I'm repeating things you don't care to answer the first time.

Why the past tense, GIEFF? I'm certainly not slowing down.

I do see why Vi could suddenly think I am scum, but his play has been incredibly scummy the last 5-10 pages or so.

How so?

You said so yourself. Everybody looks scummy in this game. I'm not all that confident about my scum-reads. Why should Spyrex be? Are you? How confident are you that I am scum?

If you're not all that confident about your scumreads, why have you been blasting SpyreX nonstop for the last four days?
I am confident enough that you are scum to lynch you over SpyreX. That's all that matters.

[Vi]

Vi claims an 86 post wagon to lynch -1 on Spyrex, but ignores that the only reason I took off my Spyrex vote was because of Gieff's self vote. Had that not happened, this push to lynch -1 with Spyrex would have happened over a lot more posts.

Just want that clear, since the attempt to discredit my claims are based on the semantics of numbers.

Which doesn't change the fact that you took your vote off SpyreX and put it on GIEFF in the first place (sparking its "rapid growth", and later contributing to the "rapid growth" of the new SpyreX wagon).

Even so, your statement that GIEFF was "rushed" anywhere is a lie.

Out of curiosity, why would you say GIEFF self-voted?

----

I'm really worried that Spyrex may be town, and then we'd probably be two townies down. Why isn't Spyrex worried about that?

Aaaaaaand if you're worried about SpyreX being Town, why are you doing everything you can to get people on his wagon? Right down to 2881 where you're urging a self-hammer. If you're both Town, wouldn't that be spelling the very disaster you claim to be worried about?

Your ego won't allow you to change your vote.

Are you accusing me of being willing to allow No Lynch to go through instead of a SpyreX lynch?
Also, thanks for acknowledging that it's ego and not scum motivation.

[Vi]

Also, thanks for acknowledging that it's ego and not scum motivation.

And thanks for acknowledging that your ego is affecting the quality of your play.

Please tell me what "playing better" would entail.

I think he is the best lynch. I am not more than 60 or 70% sure he's scum, though. So of course I am worried about him being town.

If we're both town, then yes it would spell the same disaster. But if he is scum, then I at least have the chance of killing a scum today rather than me getting lynched without that chance.

*reads between the lines*
You're pushing SpyreX now because it's a lynch that Isn't You. To a degree I'll acknowledge that makes sense.

Query, and this is not an attack. What is the difference between DDD admitting his scummy play and SpyreX admitting his scummy play?

[Vi]

DDD did not admit his play was scummy, did he? He admitted he would only check in when needed, which I agree is scummy, but I don't think he thinks it's scummy.

DDD has definitely admitted to lurking/ignoring this game/being fourth on multiple wagons/etc.

No, I am NOT just pushing Spyrex because it's a lynch that isn't me. When deadline was closing in, I did a lot of thinking about who the best lynch was, and decided on Spyrex. I'm starting to think I should have chosen Sens.

Why SensFan?

----

Ok, Gieff self voted on Friday, and is at lynch -1 2 days later.

And you can say the same about SpyreX's wagon. I'm looking at a vote sheet; I'm not counting anything that isn't backed with a vote.

(Oh it's 86 posts vs 83, so you're lying. What the fuck ever dude.)

I'm pretty sure those were the numbers I mentioned earlier.

Seriously, we're talking about weeks of pushing to get Spyrex lynched vs 2 days on Gieff.

So yeah, I'm a tad offended at being called a liar on this matter.

I will acknowledge that you voted SpyreX earlier in the Day by yourself, so the suspicion didn't come out of nowhere and you may have factored that into "weeks".
Otherwise, I'm not seeing it on my sheet.

And if I knew why Gieff self voted, this would be a lot easier wouldn't it?

Then why did you vote/unvote him?

-----

If I were scum, I would not have killed VP Baltar. He thought me solidly town, when very few of you did.

I really don't understand why you think this will help you, especially considering scum have partners.

You are scum because you have been attempting to call for lynches on anyone weak enough to get them, and as of right now you're squirming like hell to get out of your wagon any way you can. SpyreX admitting wrongdoing is rings more honestly than your take on what you have done.

Furthermore, if you are both Town, I still want you lynched over SpyreX because I find your methods to be terribly scummy.

[Vi]

I did my best. I have no regrets.

even though I derailed two scum wagons

GIEFF, had you not self-hammered I would have fulfilled my end of the deal and hammered SpyreX for the sake of a deadline lynch.

Kmd was obvscum. Has nobody played with KmdTown before?

We were never going to lynch DDD anyway. Seriously.
Yes he was outrightly telling us he was playing anti-Town and had no desire to change, but even if we tried policy lynching based on that he wouldn't have been the first person to go.

I need to play a game with Zach-scum sometime so my reads on him will improve.

I don't think any of the scum threw any AtEs

I'm definitely keeping this game as an example to throw in the face of anyone who says that long days are good for Town.

[Vi]

Vi is a VERY good player

and people listen to her.

That's news to me; most of the time people ask me if I've lost my mind

(it's not my fault I haven't found it yet after 14 months)

[Vi]

EBWOP: I'm definitely keeping this game as an example to throw in the face of anyone who says that long days

and excessive discussion

are good for Town.

[Vi]

Wasn't DDD in all the lynching waggons? :S

DDD: Every wagon except jammer (was voting Battle Mage)
SpyreX: Every wagon except Benmage (was not voting)
Kmd: No wagon except Battle Mage (too busy lying about being V/LA)

I saw Kmd post elsewhere onsite 30 minutes after GIEFF self-hammered. I was... displeased.

[Vi]

@Kmd: You in Death Note:
"These people are scum. Find them. Kill them."

You in this game:
"Oh. Sorry I haven't been posting. Um... what I said earlier. Whatever it was."

@posting 30 minutes after the thread was locked: The implication is that you were lurking for anyone's-guess-how-long before deadline.

[Vi]

I didn't think there was any chance of you switching, and even

if you did switch but Spy flipped town,

I didn't think there was any chance I would avoid a lynch the next day.

Therein lies the issue with your fervent slinging of whatever you could get to stick.

Plus, I'm reasonable enough to avoid a No Lynch even on my bad days.

[Vi]

Edit for English: If you were concerned that SpyreX was going to flip Town, why trip over yourself demonizing him?

[Vi]

@Kmd: You in Death Note:
"These people are scum. Find them. Kill them."

You in this game:
"Oh. Sorry I haven't been posting. Um... what I said earlier. Whatever it was."

@posting 30 minutes after the thread was locked: The implication is that you were lurking for anyone's-guess-how-long before deadline.

Ok, so because I actually was able to come up with some names and stay interested in Death Note, but not here, I looked scummy here? Noted for future reference. Appear more interested.

I would ask if you thought being disinterested would help you, but it certainly worked for DDD, so >.>

[Vi]

@Zach: You keep setting off my scumdar as Town, and I'm not sure what to do about it :\