Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Wickedestjr]

Khan's Miller claim doesn't move me. I'd still vote for him if he acts scummy because I was in a game not long ago where the [Death] Miller was of neutral alignment and would have won the game before the town if all of the mafia were eradicated. So, Millers are still suspects IMO.

Do you actually think that Khan would have roleclaimed if this were the case? Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. I am willing to believe Khan for now, unless he does something scummy. Although I believe his claim, I would hesitate to vote him for doing something scummy just because he RC'd miller. I am going to pretend he is just an ordinary player, to make it fair for everybody.


@Mastin - I am sorry, but your posts are getting too long and none of which actually include content that is helping this conversation. I think that some of your posts are just distracting.

If I did not think that anybody else was scummy and we had a deadline that was near, then I'd vote Mastin, because he is not helping us at all, and I think it would be really hard to tell whether he was mafia or town. Mastin I would like to see more contribution from you.


@Mastin again - Which of these three people do you find the scummiest?

FallenAngel
Kise
Hayker


I am a bit suspicious of roflcopter because his vote for mastin doesn't really seem to have a good reason. He is also trying to convince us that Fallen is mafia without giving reasons. I don't know if this is his normal playstyle or what, but if I didn't have any other games to base his playstyle on, then I'd vote him. I would like to hear from others whether roflcopter is acting normal or not.

[Wickedestjr]

@Post 154 by ZazieR - When I said I was going to treat Khan like an ordinary player, I meant that if he did something scummy, then I'd treat him the exact way that I would if he hadn't claimed miller.

@Mastin - When I said "I would hesitate to vote Khan because he claimed miller", I meant to say "I would

not

hesitate to vote Khan because he claimed scum." I am very glad that you are scum hunting and please continue to do so. The only reason I said that about who I'd vote at a nearing deadline with nobody acting scummy, was because I was mostly paying attention to your posts in the RVS. All of the posts of yours that were not in the RVS actually have been contributing. I have not played many games of mafia, and most of which have been different from the games I've played on MS. I am not used to people constantly asking others questions. I used to find this suspicious when playing previous games. You asked something about inconsistency in my post. Can you please rephrase this question?

As for roflcopter, I am no longer as suspicious of him as I was at the beginning of the game.

I can still not think about who I will vote for. I have read the first 6 and a half pages, and I am hoping to catch up soon.

[Wickedestjr]

I am finally caught up apart from reading page thirteen, but I plan to read that page soon. I have a lot to say.

First of all I am curious as to why people think some of my previous posts seemed strange?

@Khan - In post 207 how come you didn't like the way that Redith waited to post his reasoning for his vote on Empking's Alt?

There were people that said that Redith had explained his reasoning for this vote, but I can't find it. Can somebody show me where Redith posts his reasoning?

I am a bit confused about the votes on Hayker. Can you give examples of his backtracking? I don't think that he seems scummy.

I have more to say later.

[Wickedestjr]

Hello everybody I am finally back. I have still only read the first twelve pages and plan to catch up later. Please take into account that I have only read twelve pages of the game so far, so I may not be up to date.

But first of all, yay! A mafia doctor (or whatever it is) has been eliminated!

This is the reverse-"well, that sucks"-tell.

Auto-FoS: ckool.

It's alright to be happy that a mafia doctor is dead.
To EXPRESS that, however, is scummy.

Never believed in this tell, never will.

I sort of do believe in this tell. I looked at all my other games that I have finished so far, and in most of the ones where I am mafia, I sometimes comment on things that stink for the town. I also noticed that I usually don't mention things like this when I am town. It may have meant that I am not very good at this game, but it might be a possibility for those people who aren't very experienced.

Mastin: Which of the M players is acting the scummiest?

Why just the M players?


I have noticed that there had been some discussion on who killed the mafia doctor. Personally, I am guessing that the vig did it. I doubt it was a second mafia group, because they probably would have agreed to lynch the least lynchable person, or the biggest threat. Since there are probably more than one person in the second mafia group, there would probably be at least one person who would suggest this. I also think the SK would kill the biggest threat as well, unless they weren't a very experienced player. This leaves a vig as the only other possiblity. It also kind of makes sense that the vig would kill a newbie anyway, if they killed anybody.

@Hayker: Stop making posts like 185 & 186. It's bad enough that ZazieR and Mastin post mostly nonsense posts. Don't emulate them.

I saw Zazie comment on this quote as well, but unfortunately I could not find where the actual post was. But anyway, I don't really like this comment. First of all: Hayker didn't make post 186, so your only real evidence for this complaint is post 185 unless you made a mistake and can identify the real post you were talking about. Second of all: It has already been discussed that Mastin and Zaz have been contributing to the scum hunting. While they may post a lot of nonsense, I find that a majority of the content in their posts is helping the game roll along. Third of all: What do you find to be nonsense in Hayker's posts?


I agree that I don't think JR's vote for Mastin is a pretty great one. It doesn't have a very good reason, and like I said before, a majority of the content in Mastin's posts contain scum hunting contribution.


Will post a bit more in a few minutes.

[Wickedestjr]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

This is another one I couldn't find the source of. I have a question for you Johnny Rotten. When is it every not necessary to vote other than at night?

Vote: Johnny Rotten

I also don't think your vote for Mastin is a good one.

I have a question for Empking's Alt. Can you please show me where you have posted opinions you have of other players?

Also, what is a policy lynch?

Wow. Thanks for posting ckool.
Vote Kublai
Obv scumslip in the quote from him that ckool just posted. Will comment more when I get at that post.

Your vote is the direct result of piggy-backing someone else's evidence. Quit pretending like I'm making things up.

I sometimes find that piggy-backing is a good thing. It sometimes a post that one person makes that convinces you to lynch another person that turns out to be mafia. This is one of the main reasons why we discuss before we lynch. I'm sure some people have completely different ideas as to who is scummy and they could be wrong. I would find it more scummy for somebody to completely recite the opinion of another player and pretend as if it was their own idea.


Also, why are people always posting during 1-4 a.m. Why don't you post when you are awake and can give us your most decent opinions. Not that I am saying any posts following these sort of comments have been bad, but I am just requesting this for the future.

But I did mention in post 33 that I thought Mastin was the type of person who would enjoy joking about how scummy he was when he actually was scum.

Because jokes are so fun.

Woah!!! Are you saying your scum?


I have another question for Johnny Rotten. What do you mean when you say that you see the game in a black and white sort of way?

[Wickedestjr]

Fallen Angel what do you find strange about MafiaMann's attitude?

Would the guilty or not guilty verdict change anything?

No, it would not.

I think that if the result of the inspection was guilty then Khan would be scum or a miller, but if not guilty, then I would guess that the inspector was insane or Khan did something really stupid as a townie.

I know that this game hasn't been going on for long, but I would consider it a good thing to prod them early due to the speed of the game.

As for roflcopter assuming that Khan is town, I am not really concerned about this, but I do think that roflcopter needs to consider this from both sides.

@Post 154 by ZazieR - When I said I was going to treat Khan like an ordinary player, I meant that if he did something scummy, then I'd treat him the exact way that I would if he hadn't claimed miller.

Which I still think is weird as you believe his claim. Which means you think he''s a miller, a town-alligned player.

You're saying I shouldn't believe him?

[Wickedestjr]

I am very behind and I apologize, but I will catch up soon.

After reading page 13;

I had no issues with post 268, and found this part very interesting:

Third, if Mastin was the talk of the day then why just ask for more people to comment on him, why not raise some new questions?

But then came this:

And finally... you used "lol" even after it was specifically mentioned as a scum tell in this game.

Explain this comment now.

Why do you find these posts interesting? I don't see the relation, but there is probably something I'm missing.

Unvote

Vote: Fallen

Uhh... Thanks Empking?

Ugh zazie seems to be asking some of the questions I'm asking, that's good in one way, in that it makes me feel better about her, but bad in a I want to ask them first way Yeh don't worry I'll not pout.

Does it really matter who asks the questions as long as they are asked? I want an answer to this.

Johnny Rotten -

Slight things for him

, but overall I don't see him as scummy. 268 seems weak overall - the only thing with any real basis was the 2nd reason.

What slight things?

fallen angel - the change of mind in 265 - 267 is slightly suspicious, but players can change their stance on others throughout the game and I don't find fallen to be scummy.

You think a person can change their mind this fast? You don't think it is somebody trying to blend in?

But he should be vig-killed and investigated. So when he is killed, hopefully cop can claim and we can figure out the sanity of the cop.

Why shouldn't I believe that you are mafia trying to divert the vig kill to somebody that isn't one of your partners?

[Wickedestjr]

@Post 154 by ZazieR - When I said I was going to treat Khan like an ordinary player, I meant that if he did something scummy, then I'd treat him the exact way that I would if he hadn't claimed miller.

Which I still think is weird as you believe his claim. Which means you think he''s a miller, a town-alligned player.

My reason for thinking your post was strange^^

This was before I noticed that Khan didn't know anything about his role.


@Empking Post 336 - Do you honestly think these kind of things are helping us? I don't like this at all.

I sometimes find that piggy-backing is a good thing. It sometimes a post that one person makes that convinces you to lynch another person that turns out to be mafia. This is one of the main reasons why we discuss before we lynch. I'm sure some people have completely different ideas as to who is scummy and they could be wrong. I would find it more scummy for somebody to completely recite the opinion of another player and pretend as if it was their own idea.


Also, why are people always posting during 1-4 a.m. Why don't you post when you are awake and can give us your most decent opinions. Not that I am saying any posts following these sort of comments have been bad, but I am just requesting this for the future.

But I'm not piggy-back riding.
Also, if that time comment is aimed at me, I live in a country with as timezone GMT+2.

I'm not the one accusing you of piggy-back-riding. I am sort of defending you. The time comment was aimed at everybody that posts at 1-4 in the morning at their time.

[Wickedestjr]

I just read page 15;

Also, what is a policy lynch?

That you lynch a player based upon his playstyle (like always lurking, always posting one-liners, always posting Mastin-style, etc.), instead of his behaviour in the game.

Would lynching somebody for not playing the way they play when they are town fall into the category of a policy lynch?

@Achilles (311): Why did you only focus on those who have votes?

A user asked for the people who hadn't posted much yet to post their opinion,

so I figured the best way was to just comment on people who were already under suspicion.

I can't think of other people beside the ones who currently have votes who stand out to me a suspicious, so I didn't comment on anyone else.

So are you tunneling?

@Hayker please try not to post late at night.

Wick: 0, 4, 5

FoS: Empking's Alt

Why do you keep making posts like this? Is this directed at me, and do you think it is helping at all? You have not contributed at all. Please say something of use to the town.

I am not so suspicious of Hayker at the moment. I have a hunch that he is town. I will look into it a little bit more later.

Just a question. Is iamausername the kind of mod that would include strange roles? Is he the kind of mod that would try to screw with our minds?

[Wickedestjr]

FoS: ckool5000

1.) "yay scum doctor is dead" post. I think Mastin went over this at one point. (granted i think at this point it would have been hard for mastin to NOT mention something)

1. Um.... What? Look, if someone says, "Oh, congrats doctor!", then that's a scumtell... But me saying that I'm glad that a scum powerrole is dead?... Well...... It's not a scumtell, because it's something we all know... Or something.... So... Yeah....

You don't seem to understand. We think, or at least this is what I think we are all thinking, that you could be mafia celebrating that your doctor died to make yourself seem pro-town.

2. Plus it was something I've always wanted to say in a mafia game.

If it was something that you thought would be something fun to do, then you shouldn't have done it after the RVS. Once the RVS is over it is time to get serious.

Be careful when you say I'm telling the truth ckool, some people take it as a major scum tell.

What else can I say? "I really mean it"?

This is the worst defense ever. Anybody, even scum could pull this off. It is the exact same excuse that you used earlier yet people still have doubts, and then you just repeat yourself. Why? It doesn't make sense. Usually if people are voting you, then you have to give a decent reason for them to unvote, and if they still don't believe you then you have to make your defense better instead of just repeating yourself and hoping that we'll understand.

I try not to assume that players that coach each other are helpful (with the exception of ICs in newbie games). Given all the coaching and reasons from post 378,

Vote Ckool5000

.

Not that I think voting for Hayker would be better, but why are you accusing the coached rather than the coacher.

Yep. That confirms it. I should just keep my mouth shut.

*sarcasm* Yeah, keep your mouth shut now that people are voting for you and don't even try to convince them to change their vote. *sarcasm* No offense but your defenses suck. You keep playing the "I'm a noob" card on us and hoping we'll just assume your a newbish townie.

Also, why are people always posting during 1-4 a.m. Why don't you post when you are awake and can give us your most decent opinions. Not that I am saying any posts following these sort of comments have been bad, but I am just requesting this for the future

Eh, I post when I'm online, . I don't see why this is a problem as long as it's not being used as an excuse.


Also with that being said, I'm back, and gonna read over what I missed now.

I agree that it is a terrible excuse, and I wouldn't mind the posting at 3 in the morning if they didn't use this excuse.

[Wickedestjr]

I am not used to all these mafia terms. What is breadcrumbing? And also what do you mean when you guys are talking about metas?

[Wickedestjr]

Hi curiouskarmadog, what do you think about the miller claim, do you believe it? What do you think about Johnny Rotten’s strange play? What do you think about Empking’s Alt’s terrible posts? What do you think about Hayker? What do you think about ckool’s excuses (that he's a newb) ?

unvote, vote: hayker

Let's not be getting any ideas from Empking.

unvote, vote: hayker

ok... anything else

no. watch your step or it could be you.

???

I'm waiting for bigger scum-behavior from hayker & FA, but IGMEO them.

Basically, you're saying you don't want to make a case on them yet, and that you want them to act more scummy for you, correct?
(crazy speculation: This could also be a buss put into plan the night before involving them saying something scummy, or maybe even today, if we have daytalking scum. Not unheard of--lynch all lurkers, Tajo planned to buss Zwet, for example.)

That doesn't sit well with me.

I agree.

FoS: Kise

Sounds like scum waiting for town to do something that they can play with.

I have noticed that there had been some discussion on who killed the mafia doctor.

Then how'd you miss the part where we said that discussing who killed what is scummy?

What makes you think I missed this?

I sometimes find that piggy-backing is a good thing.

Unless of course they are copying somebody's post word by word.


As for ckools scummy posts, I know he is a newb, but I get a hunch that it is newb scum rather than newb town.

[Wickedestjr]

jesus, I thought you said it gets better...it is getting to the point that I can just read mastin's posts, because he comments on every fucking line....on page 9ish

But Mastin is absent for a few pages. That''s what was meant. In those pages, I''m the one with the ''irritating'' poststyle >.<

I can actually relax when reading your posts Zaz, most of your posts have decent content, and they're not long.

[Wickedestjr]

well um i havent been very active up to this point as this game is not my main priority, but during the coming week, i'm gonna be out of town and don't know how much access i'm gonna have to the internet so if im not really posting, thats why

Thanks for the contribution dvd. Come to think of it, your only other post was very scummy how you try to get the cop and vig to use their abilities on another player.

Vote: dvd

Explain yourself.

@ckool - Do you think it was not best for Khan to claim miller early in the game if he really was miller? What would you have done if you were miller?

Woahwoahwoah. Me prodded? D:
Day one ends in like, two weeks. No need for this prodding.
Work is a bummer, and summer work blows.
But I am here.

Reading through the posts I don't see ckool's scuminess.
I guess it might just be me. So unless someone wants to elborate some more, imma go back through, for the 8th time. :/

You have got to be kidding me.

Kise: Why JR?

Wow!!! I don't think I could go so long having all my posts with less than 30 characters.

An answer to what? The fact it was an obvious joke? I find it hard to believe this is a legitimate concern of yours.

It is not a legitimate concern of mine. I just wanted to hear your answer.

Also why are you so concerned what time people post at?

Because they are always using it as an excuse.

P.s. adding "I want an answer" isn't needed. Generally when someone asks a question, they want an answer

I just wanted you to answer that question.

The following players are scummy and need death:

mastin and friends

- here's what bothers me about mastin's playstyle. Every two posts someone is there to quell any suspicion by saying "oh, he ALWAYS does that." Well, if he always does that, and he's not helping town (he really isn't), I don't know what I'm supposed to think other than scum. I have a nagging feeling that this is part of his plan, and I don't like that he seemed to enter with a lot of allies willing to get his back. I didn't record all the specific instances where everyone said stuff like "oh, well, that's mastin for ya' *eyeroll*" but the fact that they're there at all worries me.

Are you saying you basically give up when it comes to figuring out if Mastin is scum and instead just assume he is scum and attempt to lynch him? There is nothing wrong with people clarifying that a person's playstyle is the same as it is in other games.

[Wickedestjr]

So are you tunneling?

At 311 I was just interested in showing that I wasn't inactive, so I addressed the immediate concerns that I saw. I don't see that as tunneling because I was just posting my thoughts on accusations that others have made.

Can you point out any opinions of players that weren't the main concerns? (If any)

I have a feeling that if Khan were mafia, then he would have claimed to be death miller when asked if he was.

You keep playing the "I'm a noob" card on us and hoping we'll just assume your a newbish townie.

Um... What?!?! How am I playing the "I'm a noob" card?!?! That can't really even be considered a card, can it? I mean, that just makes people more wanting to lynch you, right? All that I saw in that post was you thinking that I was trying to defend myself where I wasn't, and that, in the end, you thought I was doing so many noobish things that I was playing the "I'm a noob" card. Why should I have to defend myself? I've said all I had to say at the time, and I've only got one vote on me anyhow...

Seriously...

You’ve been playing the “I’m a noob card” by constantly saying things like this;

FoS: ckool5000

Yep, that proves it. The more I post, the more of an idiot I look.

&

Yep. That confirms it. I should just keep my mouth shut.

These quotes may not necessarily scream "I'm a noob please believe me", but if you are a noob as town, you are a noob as scum as well, which makes that a bad excuse.

What self respecting mafia member would want to draw attention to themselves by proposing that a random vote can be scummy?

A noob.

[Wickedestjr]

@MM

So how does this put pressure on somebody:

Vote Hayker

I dont want a lynch on him now but you definitely deserve a vote for telling a lie.

And you still haven''t answered why you''d say that your vote was for pressure when that would take away the possible pressure your vote could have had.

I said it was pressure because i was worried people would take it the wrong way and say I was being too aggressive.

You shouldn't worry about people being suspicious of you unless you are scum. I'm sure people would have understood that you were going after him to give him pressure.

[Wickedestjr]

@Everybody who thinks that Kublai is town even after my discussion with him.

Please state the reason why.

Well at first, I was considering the same possibility that ckool was, that Khan would claim death miller when asked if he was a death miller or not, but then you pointed out that this was a large

normal

, and now I'm beginning to get a hunch that Khan is scum. I don't have any good evidence now, so I will not vote him, but I will pay more attention to him.

ZazieR is the queen of bullshit and bad arguments.

For some reason, this doesn't sit well with me.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey everyone,

Just letting you know I'm replacing in and will try and read up as soon as possible (probably tonight and tomorrow, but could be a bit longer depending on my work schedule). I see I'm the leading wagon at the moment...I'll try to respond to accusations against my predecessor if I can.

Hi. Could you answer these questions when you get the chance;

Do you believe Khan's miller claim? Do you find the reasoning as to why he is lying to be good reasoning or not? What do you think about ckool and hayker's behaviors in this game? What kind of reads do you get from Zaz and Mastin?

i'm not lurking, i'm just really uninterested in posting

we're still not lynching the claimed miller, sorry zaz

Why aren't you interested in posting? There are tons of things to comment on. Are you aware that scum don't typically contribute as much as town?

[Wickedestjr]

VP: Why the unvote?

Oh c'mon!!!

Vote: Empking's Alt

Until you post some opinions of other players, and explain why you haven't yet, my vote remains on you.

[Wickedestjr]

good god this game is flying..I trying to get caught up to the now...not sure why people are voting the claimed miller..something must have happened to cause that.

If you don't think you will be able to catch up, then please just comment on what things you notice along the way like I do.

@ckool - Do you think it was not best for Khan to claim miller early in the game if he really was miller? What would you have done if you were miller?

*shrugs* I dunno. If I was miller, I would've looked up what to do, and since that's apparently claim early... well... yeah....

I mean, if Khan was town-ish, cops wouldn't really investigate him, but he's acting pretty scummy in some people's eyes... But they probably got interested at looking closer at his posts

because

he claimed, so I can't be too sure of anything right now...

Why are you asking me this question?

I'm just curious.

Post 344 is a shitty reason for voting Johnny and says that piggybacking is a good play (ie, excusing his actions).

Are you saying that piggybacking is a bad thing?

Post 460 is complete fluff
etc.

What in post 460 do you find useless?

[Wickedestjr]

Hello everyone.

SC replacing in. Re-reading now.

I am also only on one other game on site that is painfully inactive at the moment, so I replaced in to this one rather than write a small novel of rage at the other participants in the aforementioned game.

EXPECT POSTS FILLED WITH UNTOLD AND OUT OF PLACE EMOTION SOON

Welcome. Please answer the questions that I asked VP earlier on page 30.

[Wickedestjr]

You were the one rolefishing in the first place. You asked why Kublai Khan did not include a bunch of flavor things in his miller claim. Did you not?

If Khan already told us he was a miller, than what is the problem with asking for more flavor?

Also, do you really think a claimed miller in a large game is going to be able to ride that claim to victory? Even if he is scum, he put a big target on his back and would likely have multiple killing factions gunning for him tonight.

I don't believe that this is true, because there are people that are willing to get rid of him during the day, so it would just be a waste for the mafia to kill him during the night.

VP is as bad as mastin

Dvd vote is ok., are you caught up on the game btw? Cos this seems to have happened a while ago.

I admit, the vote for him was a few days after I actually saw him make that post. The reason I decided to vote him now after so long was because I noticed that people were just forgetting it, and I really wanted a response from dvd.

Speaking of which, I am asking this to everybody when I ask this, how come you are all just forgetting what dvd did?

[Wickedestjr]

I am very glad that you are scumhunting and please continue to do so.

*twitch*

What? Apparently he didn't think I appreciated the scumhunting that he was doing, so I was just clarifying.

[Wickedestjr]

I think my vote currently resides on Empking's Alt, yet I am still extremely suspicious of dvd, and still want a response from him, so,

Major FoS: dvd

[Wickedestjr]

Well, I am just saying that I may not be posting very much the next 2 or 3 days. I have been catching up the last few days, and I just got to a post of Mastin's and I know I might not get through it all tonight.

[Wickedestjr]

I think that VP brings up some good points about Mastin, but I would like to hear from Mastin before I decide whether or not I want to vote for him or not.

Vp brings off a lot of good points against mastin that several people were just ignoring because its his play style im glad some took the time to look but if he is like that always

its a null tell

.

*sigh*

Fishing for flavor

Eh... I'm not too sure about this point, because if we already knew that Khan was a miller, than what's the problem with asking for some flavor?

misrepping

Misrepresenting?

OMGUSing tons of people,

I don't find this scum tell, although it is pretty annoying.

and claiming your actions are always pro-town

Does Mastin usually do this?

are

solid

scumtells that I am quite sure he does not do all the time.

I wouldn't say any of these are very solid, because the last, I think he always does, and I don't quite understand the first two. The third one is scummy, but I don't feel that it is enough evidence for a vote.

i explained a long time ago exactly why we're not lynching khan. everyone who keeps trying to do so, please read the thread.

Is this why;

kublai khan is town, and wins the common sense award for knowing what to do as a miller

mastin needs a new start-the-game-up gag. mastin has also committed a real scumtell, policy voting the guy who claimed miller in his first post.

vote: mastin

for great justice

whoever killed elvis has earned my eternal ire and i miss her already

If so, then that won't be enough for me.

then you pointed out that this was a large normal, and now I'm beginning to get a hunch that Khan is scum.

What does that have to do with anything?

At first I said that I thought Khan was innocent, because I thought he would claim death miller when asked what kind of miller he was. Then somebody (I think Zaz) pointed out that this was a large normal, therefore it would include normal roles.

Do you believe Khan's miller claim? Do you find the reasoning as to why he is lying to be good reasoning or not? What do you think about ckool and hayker's behaviors in this game? What kind of reads do you get from Zaz and Mastin?

What lie? Please explain where he lied, preferably with quotes. Keep in mind a lie is something that is PROVEN to be untrue.

When I asked that question I was talking about the reasoning Zaz had against Khan.

As far as Mastin goes, did you read my giant post? What are your feelings on Mastin and why are you not voting him?

Yes I read the post you are mentioning after I posted these questions. I explained why I am not voting Mastin earlier.

[Wickedestjr]

Are you saying that piggybacking is a bad thing?

That is indeed what I am saying.

What in post 460 do you find useless?

Your question to Zazie didn't seem to have a point to it. Comment on Empking being Empking said nothing.

What was the question to Faraday supposed to indicate? Did he do something scummy?

Question to Achilles are ok.

Question to dvd was already pointed out if my memory serves me.

That is why I called it complete fluff.

As for the piggybacking, I don't find it scummy, if you are voting somebody based on somebody else's evidence, but if you constantly piggy-back on other people's evidence, and don't give your own opinions, then I think that is scummy.

You may think that post is complete fluff, but it is the way I scumhunt. As for the bolded, I simply wanted some clarification on the matter.

If Khan already told us he was a miller, than what is the problem with asking for more flavor?

Because Mastin was asking for things like 'why you came to Emerald land' and other backstory crap that is not in my town pm. He was clearly trying to find out what the flavor in the town pms is so if he had to fakeclaim later he'd be believable. That is rolefishing. He disputes this and claims he was trying to set a trap, however when Hayker (I believe) asks him if his pm contains any of that kind of information Mastin calls it rolefishing. This is indicative of how he has been trying to have it both ways all game.

I don't believe that this is true, because there are people that are willing to get rid of him during the day, so it would just be a waste for the mafia to kill him during the night.

There is such a thing as pro-town killing roles.

Thanks. This explains a lot. Two things I didn't consider, and hopefully I will in future games. I would like Mastin to explain himself;

Unvote
Vote: Mastin

[Wickedestjr]

Hmmm.... 3-6 is the most scummiest in my eyes about him... So I think he's not exactly the biggest help for the town... And he is somewhat scummy... So... yeah.

What do you think about the first two points?

[Wickedestjr]

@VP - Good job with the 45 points on Mastin.

Mastin is accusing people for terrible reasons, so apart from the spam, part of the rest is just crap. He's also pointing out terrible contradictions.

I find point 37 to be the scummiest of all.


@SerialClergyman

b) The sheer amount of his postings mean that there are always going to be things that come off poorly. He may occasionally make a bad argument or attack, but these weak slips are much less significant than with players who post less because of the possibility of noise over signal. If I post 100 words in my game and have 3 weak scumtells, that's significant. If I post 100,000 and have 3 weak scumtells, that's insignificant.

Are you saying that since he posts so much, then he is likely to say something scummy once in a while?

c) Mastin is scumhunting. Whether you feel he's concentrating on the right people or not, he's actively combing through the thread looking for scummy behaviour. He has made points about a number of different people and is clear about where his opinions lie. He is certainly not going with the easy wagons and trying to fly under the radar, like you say at one point, he's put himself and his theories at the forefront of discussion. These are people you do not lynch on D1, imo.

If there really is more than one scum group and Mastin is a part of one of them, then who cares if he is scumhunting or not, because he could be trying to get rid of the other scum group.

Welcome. Please answer the questions that I asked VP earlier on page 30.

Wicked, in future, please catch up in the whole thread before asking questions like this. Your questions on page 30 were directed to someone else and were AFTER a long post in which I detailed my thoughts on the argument.

I'm sorry, I just thought I should post my thoughts along the way, because it took me a week to finish.

[Wickedestjr]

vote: Mastin

Thanks.

Mastin could be scum. Some of your points do have merit,i.e. his parsing has allowed him make some things appear scummier than they were. However, having been in the game for a short while, you are making yourself guilty of misrepping just as you accused him of doing(see post 749 before you deny it). More over, your appeal to other players dislike of mastin's post style is a incredibly suspicious play. You are using it to further your desire to get him lynched because your case is not as strong as you would like. I would vote for you before I vote for Mastin, however I'm leaving my vote on KK because I believe my logic is solid.

In other words, you think the people voting for Mastin are doing it mostly because his posts are annoying? Possibly, but what's wrong with the points against him that have already been provided?

unvote, vote mastin

. I am mufasa's alt.

No, not really.

But I also don't feel like giving reasons.

Why not? "Because I don't feel like it" is not a good reason. You could be scum just voting Mastin for the heck of it. Why shouldn't we think that?

I don't focus on people unless I find them at least suspicious. I voted for him to apply more pressure to him and get him to talk more because I thought he might be scum. With more information I could get a better reading on him and hopefully find out if he was scum. Vp has been plenty active and is providing lots of information so I switched over to the person I find 100% scum.

If you thought Khan was 100% scum, then why weren't you voting him before?

Last post I promise. That is already four people responding to VP's push on Mastin. Three of which did not post any reasons,(MM kinda did but seemed to imply he was voting for his post style). If anyone is trying to take advantage of sheep it is VP. Encouraging voting

without reasons

encourages play which provides little information, and is definitely not a town move.

How has VP not given reasons? I think you missed post # 746.

@Wickedestjr (725): Why? (second part)

It's because if you were really pro-town, then you would be encouraging discussion, and that exactly isn't the most encouraging statement to make. I sort of find it typical for somebody to think that the arguments against them suck.

@ Wicked:

Are you saying that since he posts so much, then he is likely to say something scummy once in a while?

Not quite - I'm saying that for any player you should balance the amount of dicey stuff they've written with the amount they've written overall. Something like half of Achilles' posts are seriously scummy. I think only a small percentage of what Mastin has written is scummy.

Why not vote for dvd then? He has posted once, and that post was extremely scummy. Is 45 points in two posts not enough?

That is not my logic at all. What I am saying is that since KK asked the mod to answer whether he would flip town or scum and the mod resent his role PM, then the information would be in the PM. However, since he already had the PM then there would have no need to ask the question since he had the answer. Whether he claimed he would turn up town or not is irrelevant to the argument. So no I do not understand where you are coming from.

I also find that incredibly scummy. However, I want to hear what Khan has to say about it.

[Wickedestjr]

It'll take me a few weeks, but soon hopefully, I will comment on Mastin's three big posts.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry, that's

5

big posts.

[Wickedestjr]

OMG...I cant fucking take it anymore...I have replaced into 20+ games and this was the worst and longest read by leaps and bounds.

vote mastin.

Even after everyone has suggested that his play his anti-town..he continues. Other players post are lost...points are lost...I spent minutes fact checking then rescanning mastin's post to find the orginal bit I was checking....doing that 10-20 times per post I spent an hour...fuck even trying to quote something..more time spent finding what you want, and eliminating the fat. Why bother. This has to be a scum tactic....if not, I will never play in a game with you again...

you know what...I dont think I will either way.

What actually makes you think that Mastin is scum? It seems that you are just voting him because you want to get rid of the walls of text. Is this the only reason?

Sorry Mastin, but you and vp are making this game a headache. Plus, to me, vp wins the debate.

unvote
vote: Mastin

How? What are you reasons for voting Mastin?


There are eight posts which I haven't read. Seven of which were written by Mastin (of course) and the other was by VP.

[Wickedestjr]

@Zaz - What did you think about Mastin before he claimed? (town, neutral, scum) What did you think about Mastin after he claimed? (town, neutral, scum)

[Wickedestjr]

Specifically, I think Khan submitted the kill, and when he failed, he panicked and claimed miller.

Why would Khan panic about this? And what makes you think he would claim miller?

[Wickedestjr]

Then you will inevitably fail to truly counter me. Not responding to everything will leave you looking scummy, because you'll inevitably leave out key parts of my argument.

(Well, you would, except that half of the time, I'm too lazy to check back on my own posts and go by memory.)

Mastin, I think you are forgetting that we have lives. We can't comment on everything that you say, otherwise, we would be extremely behind in the game. Probably ten pages or so. Not responding to everything does not make him scummy. There are people like Mufasa and Empking who haven't contributed anything, and you haven't commented on their scumminess, apart from the scum tell you pointed out about Mufasa that was a long stretch.

1: And, I'll return the favor and sum it up for you:
I'm not wrong.

2: And even if I were, being wrong is not a scum tell.

1: Well your not right all the time.

2: Depends.

So, what?
Being wrong a lot isn't really an issue, now, is it?

Yeah kinda. It may actually put incorrect thoughts into other people's minds. If you are making incorrect statements about yourself, then it may serve as propaganda in your favor and convince others not to be suspicious of you.

^^This is called entrapment at best

Entrapment--laying a trap. In this case, for scum.
What's wrong with that?
Nothing.

Sometimes entrapment can trap the wrong people, and sometimes if it does, then it may have been the intention. But who were you "trapping" in this case anyway?

I. Never. Rolefish. Like, ever. Never in my games, have I rolefished, and I take SERIOUS offense at the accusation. Not as scum. Not as town.

Read it at face value: Me wanting to trap scum.
Stating whether it worked or not, however, would be anti-town to do, because it would give the scum information that they otherwise would not have had, allowing them to safeclaim in the future. (I have a theory on the matter. If I decide to reveal whether the trap ensnared scum or Khan passed, I'll also reveal the theory I have about scum PM's vs. town PM's.)

First you say that you never rolefish, and then you don't even defend yourself, but instead point out something anti-town that you did that you admit seems anti-town. In case you don't know what I mean, you pointed out that it was anti-town to give the scum more information then they already have, but asking for more flavor in a role claim does give them more information in case they were planning on role claiming in the future.

Summaries suck. Simple.
[/alliteration]
Seriously, though. They don't convey the entire message. If you want the case against me, I will be happy to give you a PBPA on your scummy actions which will prove that you are scum.
But I'm not going to make a summary of the accusations.

Not that hard to understand.

Summaries surely shouldn't suck.

If it is something that'll prove that he is scum, then give it to us if you already haven't or point it out to me if you have.

Honestly, me, VP, and a few others are probably the only ones that'll read everything that you say. If you think there are points that absolutely can't be skipped then bold them or point them out at the end. This can be included in your summary. Also, summaries are good for revealing your overall opinions on the situation, because you don't seem to do that too often.

Note the underlined, and the italicized. Emerald is part of the role, not the flavor.

I agree with this. Just in case people weren't aware of this, but I am suspicious of both Mastin and Khan.

Lynch anyone who doesn't claim Emerald *role* when claiming, please.

I think this is scummy.

Yes, it does. If Khan has a vital role to your faction (be it either Cerulean or the

other faction

), or you have a small Mafia Faction (this would be ESPECIALLY true if you're Cerulean.), then defending him would be your best shot at winning.

Hmm... Do you know something that we don't? That is sure what it seems like.

Okay, "so be it"-->Lynch VP. You know that, correct?

I think VP meant something else when he said that. You seem pretty eager to lynch in this quote and the one before the previous.

2: And, again, things could be different this game. A smaller mafia faction than one would expect in a game of this size, or Khan being an absolutely vital mafia role (only power role, for example), would make practically any player defend their buddy.

I agree with Mastin when he says this, but I don't think it means anything.


There is tons more to come.

[Wickedestjr]

Fear of being exposed, of course. If it were a roleblocker stopping his action (It was), then he'd be worried about it, in my opinion.

If Khan was scum and had a few partners in crime, then you are assuming that he made the kill? It doesn't make sense to me. Now they know not to have Khan make the next kill if you are right.

And either way, scum have their target for tonight.

You seem to be pretty sure about that.


For now I think I will go for a MafiaMann lynch. Not only has he been acting strangely, but his lynch will tell us something about FA.

[Wickedestjr]

Oh right.

Unvote

Vote: MafiaMann

[Wickedestjr]

Still replying to Mastin.

Of course, only just a bit. She's looked at other suspects as well, you know, and dropped a few fair FoS's every once and a while

This is true.

1: Wants me dead without expressing the opinion of me being scum,

2: I point out what I see--that is what I saw, a potentially huge scumslip.

3: This is not a counter to the point. You're not explaining how it is NOT what you were saying.

1: He has expressed his opinion of you plenty of times. Did you see the 45 points against you that were a few posts before your's?

2 & 3: What is the scum slip that you two are talking about?

If I see a slip, and it's not regarding me, do you want me to not point it out?

You shouldn't defend others, you should let them defend themselves.

Well, that's because I'm mirroring your words. I can't word it this way:
"Note how VP is referring to the rest of the town in third person", because that implies that he, himself, is referring to the town as part of it, which contradicts with the accusation that he is not part of it.
While as saying
"Note how VP is referring to the town in third person" is an accusation that he is referring to the town in the third person, not being part of it himself.

Simple logic, really.

Eh... Not really. I refer to the town as "the town" regardless of my role and I'm sure that others do to. Why are you always the one to point out the weakest scum tells? No it is not simple logic, it is complicated bad logic.

I haven't. :/

There's no way we could ever find out if you were lurking or not. Right now I believe his reason for being inactive for so long.

Not really. I'm having loads of fun scum hunting.

Me too actually.

[Wickedestjr]

Alright, I will. You want the case against you, no? A PBPA will do it rather nicely. Against both you and Khan, because you two are linked.

If so, then do it if you haven't.

And the lack of anyone on the Johnny wagon being able to bring an actual summary of the points against him continues.

It doesn't seem to bother you that some people on the Mastin bandwagon have joined without giving reasons.

FoS: VP

Oh, not really. It's simple. Those who vote for me are scum.

Once again you are attempting to frighten those who think about voting you.

They get thwacked by walls of text from me to prove it (making them miserable from having no choice but to respond to it all or die), and IF I am SOMEHOW lynched through all of that, they often will receive SERIOUS attention after that. (There's a risk that people will go "Oh, this is Mastin. Let's ignore the bandwagon on him." But that's poor play, and is not done often.)

No, we don't have to respond to everything. I just am because nobody else is and you are a big suspect, so it is best if all the things you say are noted.

1: I am not doing so; I've proven this.

2: However, I can say the same about you, BS'ing points against me.

1: Some points you have defended yourself against well, but you have bad reasoning for others.

2: Some points of VP I don't think are good ones, but most of them are.

Trapping scum...

Nope, it was indeed, fishing for flavor.

1: I am giving long posts, that if read in detail, would potentially give scumslips.

2: This is a null tell, as I do it in most of my games.

1: I don't see many good scum slips, I see strange reasoning.

2: True.

[Wickedestjr]

I shot this down already, and you failed to even respond to my counters in your post. Why? Because you know I'm correct and can't counter, of course. They're null tells.

Oh you have defended yourself on this point already. Please show me where.

1: I HAVE defended. You just didn't QUOTE my defenses!

Oh yeah, shame on us for not noticing your defense. Honestly Mastin, if we had to look for your reasoning for something, then it would take forever. It would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

I asked you if you wanted a PBPA on JR and you--you refused to answer.

Do you want a PBPA VP? I'm getting the impression, that you don't want one. Are you scared that the PBPA will point out a lot about you.

[Wickedestjr]

It doesn't seem to bother you that some people on the Mastin bandwagon have joined without giving reasons. FoS: VP

1:There comes a point in a mafia game where you just have to pick a target and get that target lynched. Sure, some people hopped on the Mastin wagon without stating reasons, but in fairness what else were they going to say really? I gave a wealth of good reasons for him needing to be dead. I don't think there was a lot more to add. I'm sure there were some scum jumping on that wagon, but that doesn't mean I should stop a lynch from going forward on a person I think is likely scum. The fact that we likely have multiple mafia factions in this game means that almost every wagon until closer to endgame is going to have have scum hopping on it. All I can do is try to get my targets lynched and pay attention to voting patterns for analysis later.

Do you want a PBPA VP? I'm getting the impression, that you don't want one. Are you scared that the PBPA will point out a lot about you.

2: The fact is that Mastin is behaving stupidly about this and that is why I keep ignoring his giant sized questions. If he has suspicions to bring then he can post them, he does not need my approval to do so. He is harping on this PBPA thing because he hopes it will make it look like I actually care if he does it or not, which I don't. Furthermore, this sprung from me asking what the points on JR were from multiple people and never receiving an answer. It doesn't require a PBPA at all. One only needs to link to some previous posts where the points against him are clearly stated.

To sit there and repititiously scream that I need to give him approval to make a case is dumb. Make your points or shut up, but either way I don't think there is a significant case to be made against me. My guess is that it will largely be comprised of him saying how I'm misrepping him and that I'm using some sort of hidden mind control to convince others that he is scum etc. etc. that he has stated very poorly numerous times in his other posts.

1: That is true. They didn't have much to add. Although they could at least state what they think is most scummy about the person they are voting.

2: Good answer. If he has reasoning as to somebody's scumminess then he should just post it.

[Wickedestjr]

You are correct. It is a null tell.
My posts are like a coin.
Reading my posts is like flipping the coin.
If it lands on heads, you see how my posts are pro-town.
If it lands on tails, then you see how my posts are anti-town.

But, no matter where the coin will flip, you're not going to get my alignment from the posts; that is because they're null tells. I'm a hard, nearly impossible, read, in fact. While I recently found a possible supertell of mine, other than that, there's no way for anyone to tell what alignment I am.

If people point out something scummy in my posts, I can not only
-Explain why it isn't,
but also
-Give examples of me doing the "scummy" thing as a pro-town player. (Most of the time. Sometimes, it's an ongoing game, meaning no link, no quote, without mod permission.)

Whatever. Ya know, I'm kind of getting the impression you want people to ignore your posts.

Fishing for flavor,

Setting a trap.

It may have been a trap you were setting, but fishing for flavor is what you were betting. (See I can make some poetry of my own.) Ya know, this is a game with 2 scum groups. You may be trying to set a trap for somebody on the opposite scum group. But you could also be trying to fish for some flavor at the same time.

misrepping,

1: Giving my opinions.

2: I've been accused of misrepping before. See 742, the best example of this off the top of my head. The accusations were false, sure, but they were still made.
So IF you accuse me of a misrep, I can prove how the supposed misrep (which is me just calling it as I see it) is a null tell from me.

Really, VP. I gave the links to all of my completed games. Don't tell me you didn't even glance at any of them. I gave them to prove these things as null tells, and opinions long-standing from me.

Really Mastin, stop trying to scare others into not accusing you of being scum.

OMGUSing tons of people,

1: I accused you, and had my vote on you, long before you voted me. I went for a while thinking Khan was town, but Zazie's posts, some of Khan's blunders, and some review made me realize he's not. Lowell blatantly buddied up, and also, defended Khan a great deal from MULTIPLE PEOPLE, me the LEAST of them.
That's not OMGUS.
That's scum hunting.

2: And, again...look at my games. I could've technically been OMGUS'ing And and Kier. Chainsaw defense made me suspect Ace,
Same with Mikek here,

If memory serves, I did it here as well,

And so on.
Consider your point pwned via my meta.

If I didn't before, then I am now starting to think that the OMGUSing thing is a null tell as well.

are solid scumtells that I am quite sure he does not do all the time.

And I just proved you wrong.

They all are, actually. I just pwned VP's assumption by proving his points false, via meta and my own actions this game.

Mastin, Mastin, Mastin. You have a very interesting(annoying) playstyle. I think that later I will compare your playstyle in a game that you are scum, to your playstyle in a game you are town just for you Mastin. Mostly because the whole null tell thing is really annoying.

Today would be much better spent lynching VP Baltar.

No, there are people I would rather lynch today.

I think that players like (but not exclusively) Mastin, VP, KK, Zaz, Lowell and roflcopter are all using preconcieved ideas to further convince themselves that the people they are attacking are scum.

VP's scum. Khan's very likely scum. Lowell's at third. Rofl's just rofl, and if his lurking is part of his meta, then he can be excused. Zaz is pro-town.

I've gone over the reasoning why multiple times. I believe that we should get rid of VP today.

I agree with your opinions on three of those five. I am not going to say who yet though.

Why didn't people notice stuff like the fact Achilles posts scummy stuff EVERY POST,

I forget which, but I recall liking one of Achilles's posts.

I know that Achilles has made some strange posts, but there are at least five-eight people that I would much rather lynch.

or FA and MafiaMann's little conversations?

Quite personally, I had noted them as, at best, things that look like a null tell. They do seem a bit scummy from it, but other than those two, I don't see anyone else linked together to form a mafia team in just those two.
I do, however, see a strong VP-Khan-Lowell link. Three's better than two, no?

I'm beginning to think that MafiaMann and FA have some relation with the trio.

If the word 'mafia' wasn't there, someone could claim doctor and it we would not be able to say whether it was a pro-town doc or not

And think about it--

Let's use that Cerulean Roleblocker example again:

Say the PM says "You're a Cerulean Mafia Roleblocker". The person wants to claim.
They INSTANTLY will remove the Mafia part of their PM. And as Cerulean is a specific type of mafia, they'll likely remove that as well.
Leaving just Roleblocker.
"Claim: Roleblocker". Oops, no Emerald, that person's scum.

Where as a pro-town player, who gets a PM, say, saying "You're an Emerald Roleblocker", and they want to claim...

"Claim: Emerald Roleblocker".

This works for Mafia claiming a role they are not.

Say a PM says "You're a Cerulean Mafia Goon." The person wants to claim Miller.
Drop the Mafia, of course. Drop the Cerulean, because it's the type of mafia. Change Goon to Miller, and...

"Claim: Miller." Same mistake. No Emerald.

Does that clarify my thought process?

To me that was the most convincing defense against Khan so far in this whole game.

Yep, that's still a threat.

There's no threat in a fact.
I'm stating what has happened. People (scum) HAVE been nailed for pushing my lynch, and me flipping town. People (any who attack me) get miserable when they attack me due to me responding to their attacks, and counter-attacking, creating huge walls of text.

"Any scum that push for my lynch are always caught". If this is true, then why do you point it out? It seems scummy.

It's simple, really.
I have fun when attacked.
If I'm not being attacked, I have no fun.
When I am having no fun, I will post shorter posts.
And when I am having loads of fun, I will post wall after wall of text.

Once again you are scaring people from being suspicious of you.

Which means that those who attack me end up regretting it later, because they not only have to live through my walls, but they also have to accept that pushing for my mislynch will make them look terrible the next day.

If you weren't always acting scummy then this would be true.

and if someone aims to get you lynched knowing they'll get lynched the next day, a good townie should still push through it and criticize you, whereas scum would be more fearful of their own life.

It's called "point of no return".

A quote from a television show regarding a person shooting himself with another person's gun to frame him:

"Oh, the gun. Leave it, and it looks bad. Take it, and it looks even worse."

Once a person attacks me, and attacks me hard, there's no going back on it. They look bad for continuing. They look worse for stopping. I push for their lynch, even when they stop pushing for mine, so they have no choice but to push my lynch as scum, because if they don't, instead of getting lynched the next day, they get lynched THAT day.

The more I comment on your posts, the more I want to comment.

It was just about the only thing he could genuinely focus on, and noone else had done much at all, so it's impossible to tell whether he had tunnel vision on you or not.

It took him forever to unvote, and that was due to the fact that he couldn't get anyone to go along with him. Because the scum want me dead, now, though, he's revoted me.

Definitely seems like tunneling to me.

I would really like roflcopter to reply to this.

- I agree about fishing for flavour.

Look, when I reveal whether the trap worked or not, I will prove why the assumption that I was flavor-fishing was absolutely false. I've opened a notepad document and saved my thoughts there, just in case I forget later on.

When do you plan on revealing these results?

[Wickedestjr]

@Mastin - Can you tell me what games you have been scum and were not a replacement? Just so you know, I found games where you were town, so that't why I didn't ask for any.

[Wickedestjr]

Some new reads throught Page 14:
Achilles-town
Zazie-town
Wicked-scum
Nam-town

Having a hard time reading Mastin and for once, Emp.

My suspicions on Ckool are reinforced with the terrible vote on Khan "after looking at everything". I'd have been equally confortable voting either Rofl/Ckool on Page 14.

What do you find scummy about me?

The time comment was aimed at everybody that posts at 1-4 in the morning at their time.

I do this on nights that I'm not working. Is that a problem for you? XD

As long as you don't say it at the beginning of your post hoping it can excuse you from having scummy behavior, I don't care.

Well at first, I was considering the same possibility that ckool was, that Khan would claim death miller when asked if he was a death miller or not, but then you pointed out that this was a large

normal

, and now I'm beginning to get a hunch that Khan is scum. I don't have any good evidence now, so I will not vote him, but I will pay more attention to him.

Miller is pretty normal. I included it in my Mini Normal that I modded.

I know that, but is a death miller normal?

Are you aware that scum don't typically contribute as much as town?

STRONGLY disagree with this generalization. It may be true for some players, but there are several players, including myself, who are the exact opposite and contribute MORE as scum than as town.

Hmm... Good point.

I get a town read from Nam, but I'm not sure about the rofl wagon.

Happy scum day kmd.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry that last post was messed up.

Mod, could you please delete that post. This is what it was meant to look like;

Some new reads throught Page 14:
Achilles-town
Zazie-town
Wicked-scum
Nam-town

Having a hard time reading Mastin and for once, Emp.

My suspicions on Ckool are reinforced with the terrible vote on Khan "after looking at everything". I'd have been equally confortable voting either Rofl/Ckool on Page 14.

What do you find scummy about me?

The time comment was aimed at everybody that posts at 1-4 in the morning at their time.

I do this on nights that I'm not working. Is that a problem for you? XD

As long as you don't say it at the beginning of your post hoping it can excuse you from having scummy behavior, I don't care.

Well at first, I was considering the same possibility that ckool was, that Khan would claim death miller when asked if he was a death miller or not, but then you pointed out that this was a large

normal

, and now I'm beginning to get a hunch that Khan is scum. I don't have any good evidence now, so I will not vote him, but I will pay more attention to him.

Miller is pretty normal. I included it in my Mini Normal that I modded.

I know that, but is a death miller normal?

Are you aware that scum don't typically contribute as much as town?

STRONGLY disagree with this generalization. It may be true for some players, but there are several players, including myself, who are the exact opposite and contribute MORE as scum than as town.

Hmm... Good point.

I get a town read from Nam, but I'm not sure about the rofl wagon.

Happy scum day kmd.

[Wickedestjr]

What do you find scummy about me?

I'd have to re-read you to make a case, but with deadline coming up and my suspicions on you being very minor compared to rofl and ckool, now isn't the time to discuss it.

Fair enough.

I know that, but is a death miller normal?

Not really, but has anyone claimed death miller? No. Khan just claimed miller.

I understand, but at first I wasn't suspicious of Khan because I would of expected him to claim death miller when he had been asked if he was. Then Zaz pointed out that this was a normal game, which made me realize that he wouldn't have claimed death miller if he was lying anyway. Does that make sense?

[Wickedestjr]

What is isolation day?

@Mastin-

Why are you always asking VP for his approval to do something that will point out how scummy he is?

Wicked's post here accurately reflects my opinion.
There is no rolefishing when asking for information from an already claimed individual.
Only scum hunting (via laying traps).

I have been convinced that fishing for flavor could help you to set up a fake claim.

[Wickedestjr]

I understand, but at first I wasn't suspicious of Khan because I would of expected him to claim death miller when he had been asked if he was. Then Zaz pointed out that this was a normal game, which made me realize that he wouldn't have claimed death miller if he was lying anyway. Does that make sense?

He already claimed miller. If he changed his claim to death miller, it would have been incredibly suspicious.

Good point, but at first Khan didn't know what kind of miller he was. I'm not sure if that changes anything.


@VP - What part of it do you not understand?

[Wickedestjr]

They all have something that makes me suspicious... You on the other hand, don't.

After this day is over, can you please tell me what has made you suspicious of the following people;

Lowell
curiouskarmadog
namttam
serialclergyman
kise
kmd
me

[Wickedestjr]

Kise, Mufasa, and ZazieR. Interesting. What is a neighbour? What do you guys think about the Mufasa kill? I am not so sure what to make of it yet. I am kind of starting to think that KK may be alligned with the people that killed ZazieR because Zaz attacked KK so much. It could also be another faction trying to frame KK.

oh look, someone who was mindlessly pushing a khan wagon flipped scum. i am in no way surprised. now can we stop all discussion of ever lynching khan, finally?

vote: hayker

I don't like this post of rofl.

Still catching up.

[Wickedestjr]

hayker or fallen are both fine with me. If the people have spoken one way, who am I to argue? If anyone's lazy here, it's you.

No, you are lazy, you should give reasoning for all your votes, but why do you think KK is lazy?

[Wickedestjr]

reading ckool in iso is quite illuminating.

Vote ckool

A bit busy atm, but I will bring some major points later today hopefully.

Mastin still needs to do some 'splaining, however.

I read ckool iso last night too, and I got a scum read from him. I'll post the results tomorrow though, because I don't have time today.

[Wickedestjr]

...Zaz...was...mafia?!? Dang it, Zaz, you always do that to me.

Oh that's good, you didn't know, which means you guys obviously weren't partners./sarcasm

This doesn't sit well with me./serious

[Wickedestjr]

An observation. I know, kill speculation, kinda bad/possibly rolefishing, but this is interesting info.
Sotty7, Emerald Townie - Slaughtered Night Zero
elvis_knits, Emerald Jailkeeper - Murdered Night Zero
Konowa, Cerulean Mafia Doctor - Annihilated Night Zero
MafiaMann, Emerald Townie - Lynched Day One
Seryna Kise, Emerald Townie - Slaughtered Night One
nadroj15 ZazieR, Vermillion Mafia Goon - Murdered Night One
Mufasa, Emerald Neighbour - Annihilated Night One

Right, so the flavor matches up perfectly.
Konowa-Mufasa Annihilated. Likely vig/sk due to the choices.
Zazie-Elvis Murdered. Considering Elvis's record (good player from what I've seen), as well as Zazie's constant push for a Khan lynch (good motivation for Cerulean-Khan to nk her)/generally appearing pro-town (she always does. <_<), likely both scum kills. Specifically, the Ceruleans are likely who did this.

That leaves Sotty7-Kise Slaughtered. This one doesn't exactly seem like a mafia kill, either, though. I haven't seen Sotty7, and Kise didn't look like a very pro-town player to me. It looks like a vig/sk as well, actually.

Conclusion:

In my eyes, I am seeing evidence that further supports my theory of four killing factions with one of them being blocked.
While Khan is slightly less likely to be mafia, he is far from cleared (and actually looks kinda bad, considering how many people were shouting "Vig, shoot Khan!" D1), and I think it is a VERY real possibility that he was blocked in his nk attempt N0.

Night one, (under my four-killing factions theory) either I was correct in the fact that Lowell would send in the kill,
Or something else stopped a kill. Given as we already had a jailkeeper flip, as well as a Mafia Doctor, it stands to reason that there are more out there. (Likely, a Mafia Jailkeeper if the last kill was on Khan. As Zaz was a member of the Vermilion Mafia faction, and Khan is less likely to be Vermilion, leaving him as Cerulean who lost their doctor, this would mean that he wasn't protected by a doctor, yet he is who I can see as a very likely target.
This is all null if the last kill wasn't Khan, though.)

Also, I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of three mafia factions. We know there are at least two. But a *lot* of the buddying going on thusfar in the game would make sense with small scum factions (two to three members, making six to nine players mafia total), in my opinion. ('Cept me and Zaz, as, well, I thought she was town and was defending her as such, not to mention, our similar playstyles.)

You can discuss this while I begin to stop procrastinating and comment on the last eleven pages.

Hmm... Thanks for pointing this out. But I still think that there are only three killing groups. Otherwise it would be kind of coincidence that the same group would get roleblocked twice in a row. I agree that it was probably a vig that killed Mufasa and Konowa. As for the Zaz and Elvis kills, I'm guessing that it was the Cerulean Mafia that did that, because I doubt the Vermillions would kill one of their own. Which means that the Vermillions killed the other two.

[Wickedestjr]

Hayker: Your only hope is to convince roflcopter that someone else is scummier than you are.

speaking of lists of who i'm willing to lynch:
mastin
fallen angel
hayker
mafiamann

lets make it happen

So roflcopter, how are you doing on that list?

we're getting there

unvote, vote: mastin

that last post is the nail in the coffin. you are scum - with zazie, right?

How was Mastin's last post before this one the nail in the coffin? It looks more to me like you had forgotten about your list.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm not even going to take a guess at which of those three possibilities is right.

How come?

[Wickedestjr]

can we lynch mastin now? he's just going to continue trying to use his fake rb claim to spin farfetched theories and try to score mislynches with them.

So first you are voting Hayker, then you suddenly switch your vote over to Mastin, and now you are extremely eager to lynch him without even hearing a response from him?

FoS: rofl

[Wickedestjr]

WARNING

:

This post might be insanely long. Take action accordingly

.

Nah, you've had longer posts in this thread Mastin.

How has VP not given reasons? I think you missed post # 746.

He gave reasons for his vote, alright. Just not very good ones.

Some may have not been so good, but he still has some pretty decent reasons in my opinion.

Heh, heh. Good luck.

Thanks, I may end up dedicating a whole day to Mastin.

You keep repeating this mantra and it seems less true every time you say it.

Thing is, it's true. I've said this same stuff for a long, long, LONG time because it's true. It's truly null coming from me.
Why don't you just go on and doubt long posts coming from me are a null tell while you're at it?
This is my playstyle.

The only person in this game that I can't analyze at the moment is Empking's Alt, but only because he isn't saying hardly anything. The fact that you post more only means that we have more information to analyze.

I already pointed out how you are saying this while also saying things like "my actions are always pro-town".

And you ignore the fact that I've explained this above:

My actions are a coin. Intention-wise, it's either anti-town or pro-town.
Doesn't give you my role or alignment. Making it null.
Neither pro-town in role, nor pro-scum in role.

I explained that DOZENS of times in the above; it should've been made perfectly clear.

Just a little tip for you, if there were people other than me (and maybe a few others) that actually went through your posts, then you wouldn't have to worry about this, but I seriously doubt that hardly anybody reads your posts, so why don't you make them smaller. If you really want to help the town then what is the point of you even posting? Hardly anybody reads your posts. You keep complaining about people not noticing certain things, but you are the one to blame for this.

Also note the personal attack in here. ("you dolt")

Do you think that personal attacks are scummy?

Again he claims he never does anything scummy. Also, this magic coin simultaneously has a pro-town side and has no pro-town side. This is what I am saying when I refer to gibberish.

I've explained this before. Simply put, Pro-town intentions and pro-town role are two different things entirely.

What pro-town things do you do every game?
What scummy things do you do every game?
(Regardless of role.)

If you're actions are always null as you claim they are, do you believe you are above reproach? Should player ignore everything you say as being simultaneously "pro-town" and "anti-town"? If that is the case, then any scumhunting you are claiming to do is null as well.

Skimming my posts is fine. My scum hunting in there should be noted and used, as I have a habit of picking up on things most players ignore. Things that help me nail, say, all five scum in a game.
They should use what I write. But not ignore it, and not try to use it against me.
If they're pro-town.

Can you please give me a list of all the games you have played in?

re: mastin being interested when suspected--this is horrible play if it is true. It is essentially saying that you want to draw town focus away from actual scumhunting because it's more entertaining for you personally.

I do better scum hunting when I'm having fun. (Reference: Beard Mafia, I was bored.)

Ditto

I was one of the first people to call you out for rolefishing, so yes, please back this up with some quotes you plan to misrep. Lemme guess, the quote where I say at best it's entrapment, which came long after I accused you of rolefishing? I also don't think entrapment is a valid town tactic. There is a reason its illegal in the law books.

Entrapment is trapping scum. No problem with the tactic.

I agree that entrapment can be a good tactic if done correctly, but never have I actually experienced somebody's entrapment actually being successful. I recall you saying during day 1 that you had attempted to trap Khan. When do you plan on giving the results?


I will finish this another day, but I have been busier than I expected today. I have also not forgotten to say what I did last night.

[Wickedestjr]

re: mastin being interested when suspected--this is horrible play if it is true. It is essentially saying that you want to draw town focus away from actual scumhunting because it's more entertaining for you personally.

I do better scum hunting when I'm having fun. (Reference: Beard Mafia, I was bored.)

So are you saying you would rather have fun, then catch scum? If you think this game isn't fun unless you are being suspected, then why are you playing?

i was in amnesiac mafia where baltar was scum, and i think he's town here)

How much of Amnesiac Mafia did you think VP was town, though, rofl?

Most likely most of it.

Where is Amnesiac Mafia?

Whoops. Heh, heh. People can ignore the VP comments above; I already commented on them way back here.

Then why did you include it in this post? Don't you think we read that post already? Or do you know that not many people read your posts?

Why were you addressing just Zaz, Wicked?
I seem to recall other instances of this as well.
Possible scum team?

If Zaz had not died, than I probably wouldn't have answered this question, but I asked Zaz for her opinion because I thought you and her were scumbuddies. I still kind of get that feeling though.

If my kill fails, I panic. It means something went wrong, be it doctor (clearing the person protected, in some instances), or roleblocker.

Yeah, but I still don't see why that would make him panic. If VP and Lowell really are his partners, then how come they didn't seem to panic in any way.

I don't like your first two examples of breadcrumbs because you claimed a bunch of different things at the same time (which I definitely felt that if you were scum you were going to refer to when you claimed).

Eh, there are many more breadcrumbs; I love 'crumbing. Those were just the earliest ones. I always include my actual role in my early-on breadcrumbs, 'cept if I'm 'Nilla, in which case, I'll throw in everything plus some.

Do you have any other games for reference?

Mastin, I think you are forgetting that we have lives. We can't comment on everything that you say, otherwise, we would be extremely behind in the game.

Of course not. I don't expect everyone to do this.
I do, however, expect those who attack me to do that.

Again, those who attack you have lives too.

1: Well your not right all the time.

True, true, I was wrong in 141 about Nabakov, but other than that, my record's fairly solid.

Do you know when you are saying something wrong?

But who were you "trapping" in this case anyway?

Khan. When testing his claim.

Still plan on giving the results?

First you say that you never rolefish, and then you don't even defend yourself, but instead point out something anti-town that you did that you admit seems anti-town. In case you don't know what I mean, you pointed out that it was anti-town to give the scum more information then they already have, but asking for more flavor in a role claim does give them more information in case they were planning on role claiming in the future.

Like I said, Khan's claim made me think of a theory on that matter.

Do you plan on giving that theory any time soon?

If you think there are points that absolutely can't be skipped then bold them or point them out at the end.

Or size thirty it.

...or size thirty it. BTW, have you always been making the important bits size thirty?

Vote MafiaMann
Previously stated case, plus his unvote of Mastin without any sort of question or reasoning doesn't strike me hard as coming from town.

I need to look over my exchange with him again after this whole mastin sideroad.

Heh. Note how Mafia flipped town.
Wonder where he'll go, now?
After me, hoping that he can get me lynched?

Maybe Hayker, who has gained rather some amount of suspicion?

I have a feeling Hayker will be with us day 3.

The ones in the RVS were a) in the RVS, which you tell us to dismiss as you joking around,

Well, yea, I tell people to dismiss my RVS claims in order to prevent them from figuring out my role. I always put my real role in there, somewhere. But because I purposefully make it harder on people, it's best to ignore them and only pay attention when I DO claim.

Hmm... I just noticed that that gives you a lot of choices for an rc when you really needed one.

and b) far too vague.

I claimed roleblocker in my first post. <_<
(Sure, it was Mafia Roleblocker, but still, roleblocker)
That's not vague at all. :/

You might as well just name all the mafia roles in your first post and claim you are all of them.

If Khan was scum and had a few partners in crime, then you are assuming that he made the kill?

What's to say he hasn't?

Well, since we are sure that there are two killing factions and probably a vig, we know Khan isn't the vig, or else he wouldn't have claimed vig, so the chance of him submitting one of the two kills would be 1/12 (2 out of 24). The same chances apply of Lowell submitting a kill, except it is 2/20 or 1/10. So the chance of you stopping both kills is 1/12 times 1/10 which is 1/120. That is really small. I know that you were sure about Lowell, but that doesn't make the chances much smaller in my opinion. Mastin, if you think Lowell, VP, and KK make up one scum group, then who do you think makes up the other group?

You seem to be pretty sure about that.

And fortunately, I am alive, VP was wrong. (Maybe setting up wifom for today, "He claimed PR and lived; he's scum!")

If you are scum then there is at least one other scum group. I don't see why they'd keep you alive, unless they felt you'd be getting lynched.

If so, then do it if you haven't.

PBPA's take time.
Time means not getting caught up.

I think that there are lots of people that would rather have the PBPA.

Nope, it was indeed, fishing for flavor.

Fishing for flavor from Khan (darn, broke the alliteration. ) equals trapping him. If he answers incorrectly to the "flavor fish", he's scum. Correctly, he's less likely to be scum.

Well, until I am satisfied with the results of your trap, I am going to think that it was flavor fishing. So, I am still waiting on those results.

And for the most part it's been the ONLY logic that Mastin has used to defend himself. When someone questions him on it, Mastin resorts to simply repeating himself (and the aforementioned brow-beating) until people stop questioning him (Another fallacious way of arguing: Argument ad nauseam)

Thing is,

I give proof.
I show why the accusations against me are false, giving in-game proof to show why.

To further back the point up, I give examples of me having done the same thing as a pro-town player, confirming once and for all that it is true.

I answer every question directed at me with in-game proof,
And then give metagaming examples to back the statement up further.

What's the problem with that?

There is no problem with that, but in my opinion, some of your arguments are incorrect.

Let me get this straight: I joked about killing you in the pre-game thread (i.e. no roles yet),

Well, that was enough. Night zero actions are always random from pro-town players. (Scum, not so much; they choose their targets for a kill based off of skill.) That little pre-game thing was more than enough to gain my random choice N0.
Night Zero for a pro-town player is like the RVS during the day. We might as well rename Night Zeros into the Random Killing Stage.

Most of the time, night zero actions are strategized even though they don't know anything about what will be happening afterwards.

and (B) there should have been 4 kills.

Yes. This night confirms it. Zazie looks like a scum kill; the other two look like vig/sk kills.
Where's the other scum's kill, then?

I don't think there's an SK.

There's no evidence, Mastin. I can't confirm that I was blocked because I have no night action that can be blocked. The mod did not send me a notification saying that I was blocked. NOTHING CONFIRMS YOUR STORY.

'Cept my breadcrumbs, the fact I think that a kill was stopped, and the fact that I never lie even as scum except about alignment (and in Newbie Games, role. However, anywhere else, I'll tell the truth about my role), and that when I claim, I'm truthful about my role. Really, people figure this stuff about me over time:
I never claim a role that I am not, even as scum (with Newbie Games as an exception).

Wait, if Mastin did roleblock Khan, then would he know about it or not?

The fact is that Mastin is behaving stupidly about this and that is why I keep ignoring his giant sized questions. If he has suspicions to bring then he can post them, he does not need my approval to do so. He is harping on this PBPA thing because he hopes it will make it look like I actually care if he does it or not, which I don't.

Thing is, PBPA's take time, and are long.

I'll take this as approval, though.

Yeah PBPA's are long. So what?

(which i find is a easy mafia claim to claim)

Yea, yea, easy mafia claim. Which is why it's gutsy if I'm mafia,
And why either I'm telling the truth and am an Emerald Roleblocker,
or am still telling the partial truth and am a *faction* Mafia Roleblocker.

Either way, I'm still a roleblocker, who is blocking his choice of scum.

Well you did say that you were a mafia roleblocker at the beginning of the game.

[Wickedestjr]

can we lynch mastin now? he's just going to continue trying to use his fake rb claim to spin farfetched theories and try to score mislynches with them.

So first you are voting Hayker, then you suddenly switch your vote over to Mastin, and now you are extremely eager to lynch him without even hearing a response from him?

FoS: rofl

That's pretty normal for roflcopter.

Possible Wickedestjr/Mastin scumbuddy tell here.

Well, if you read the thread, I was one of the people that attacked Mastin the most.

[Wickedestjr]

Phail.

Vote: VP Baltar

I dunno if you said already, but what are your reasons?

[Wickedestjr]

Rofl, more organized version of my case that I found by viewing my own posts:
-lurked

true

-only went after easy targets

false

-predetermined who was votable a little early

your opinion

-Declared Khan town on next to nothing, very early in the game

wrong

-buddies to Khan by giving him and award for "knowing what to do".

wrong

-Wrong on Mastin's vote. He called it OMGUS, not a policy miller vote.

wrong

-Takes the easy Mastin vote, apparently knowing his meta

wrong

-Comment on the NK

what about it

-threatened to vote MM over asking for reasons for your vote

what about it

my comments in bold. this still looks like a lurker hunt when you could be going after mastin, who you've already admitted you find scummy.

Care to elaborate on the points that you didn't say were true?

[Wickedestjr]

Last night I attempted to read every player in iso, to see what reads I got, unfortunately, I was only able to do this for six players. The first six on the player list. I got two scum reads, and a town read, and the rest were neutral, because I didn't have enough evidence on them yet. I will however, only reveal the town read and one of the scum reads, because I want more information for I post them.

I got a town read from Kmd, most of his opinions are good ones, and he seems to be doing some really productive scum hunting.

I got one of the scum reads from ckool last night though, and Zaz being mafia made me even more sure of this.

I will elaborate more on this hopefully tonight, but I am not making any promises, because I am having people over to my house. Will try to post as much as I can now and then.


@Kmd - Can you explain how you got a scum read from me?

[Wickedestjr]

When I was reading ckool in iso, I had a few things I wanted to ask him about.

Ckool

, the way you are playing this game, with which of the two previous games of yours can you see the most similarities and why?

Well, I'd say the first game, because I was trying to... trying to... how did lowell say it?... Oh, yeah, trying too hard to be loved by all, and because I kept saying things that later made me want to open mouth, insert foot.

But in the second game, I was more cautious because of what happened in the first...

But yeah, I'd have to say the first.

Are you acting cautiously in this game?

Which game did you act cautiously in, your first, or your second?

[Wickedestjr]

Kise, you're starting to seem pretty scummy to me.

I don't remember you ever elaborating on this. Can you show me where you have said why you were suspicious of Kise, or explain now why you were?

[Wickedestjr]

You know what amazes me? ZazieR has been posting a majority of the posts on the last few pages, and she hasn't gotten a single fos or anything... Of course, there's not much about her posts that could really seem suspicious... For a second, I thought I was on a roll with my thought process, but I'm not even really sure what I'm saying now..

Do people that post a lot have to be given FoSs? If you notice that nobody is looking at a person's posts, then why don't you?

[Wickedestjr]

I've learned my lesson about Faraday, since I kept repeated that I thought he was town in my first game even though he was scum.

No offense, but that is the stupidest reason ever. Looks to me like you are trying to please Faraday, or you two are scumbuddies. Not really sure which possibility I'm leaning toward if one of these two is the case. Ckool wouldn't that mean that you would suspect faraday a little bit more? If not, then you obviously didn't learn your lesson.

[Wickedestjr]

Yeah Faraday... But your posts in general seem so town, that it's hard to find you scummy... If that's not redundant..... I guess what it really is is that there's nothing in your posts that can be considered scummy, as far as I can tell.... Hmm.... Does that make you scummy?

Ckool how similarly is faraday acting compared to the other game you played with him in? If his posts seem so town, then that might mean you are not reading deep enough into his posts. Reading deep into people's posts is how you catch the scum.

[Wickedestjr]

After reading the first 44 pages, I am still not sure who I want to lynch. There are a few people who I am getting scum reads from, but some of which I am waiting until I have a bit more information before I accuse them. For now;

Vote: ckool5000

-He is not helping us scumhunt much.
-Some of his reasoning is bad.
-He may be a Vermillion along with Zaz.
-I would like to pressure him.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked is apparently turning into Mastin redux.

Hey somebody's gotta comment on Mastin's posts.

[Wickedestjr]

Rofl, more organized version of my case that I found by viewing my own posts:
-lurked

true

-only went after easy targets

false

-predetermined who was votable a little early

your opinion

-Declared Khan town on next to nothing, very early in the game

wrong

-buddies to Khan by giving him and award for "knowing what to do".

wrong

-Wrong on Mastin's vote. He called it OMGUS, not a policy miller vote.

wrong

-Takes the easy Mastin vote, apparently knowing his meta

wrong

-Comment on the NK

what about it

-threatened to vote MM over asking for reasons for your vote

what about it

my comments in bold. this still looks like a lurker hunt when you could be going after mastin, who you've already admitted you find scummy.

1 is true, i lurked

Why did you feel the need to lurk? Forgive me if you've already answered this, but don't you think it would be better for the town if you gave opinions as often as possible?

2 is false, my targets weren't "easy" they were scummy. and you can hardly call going after hayker and mastin easy now that kmd is riding my case about it. almost makes them seem like they're all connected.

Do you think hayker would be an easy target? Why? Do you think Mastin would be an easy target? Why?

3 is completely subjective. "a little early" is a pile of crap when it comes to calling something scummy. it is 100% kmd's opinion, not fact.

I'll let Kmd answer this first, as it is adressed to him.

4 again with the "early in the game" bullshit. and i didn't declare him town on "next to nothing," i gave a very detailed explanation for why i was declaring him town.

I agree with Kmd here. You hadn't seen many of Khan's posts, before you assumed that he was town. The only evidence was Khan's miller claim, and that it was the best thing for him to do. However, this is not enough evidence, because as you can see in one of the games that Zaz referenced, their were mafia members that claimed miller, so Khan could easily be a mafia member that claimed miller. Until you can show how Khan's posts give you a town read on him, I am not convinced.

5 kmd seems to be simultaneously arguing that i shouldn't have declared khan town, while saying that i'm buddying to him, an action which would only be scummy if

khan is town

. pick a side ass hat.

*Stares at Kmd waiting for a reply*

6 actually i don't even remember what this one is referring to in particular, but its obviously a backhanded defense of mastin again. mastin was doing exactly what zazie was doing yesterday, going after the claimed miller and ignoring most everything else. look what zazie flipped.

This is a good point.

HoS: Mastin

7 again, what about it?

*Stares at Kmd again waiting for a reply*

8 again, what about it?

Kmd can you elaborate on point eight, I don't understand it either.

[Wickedestjr]

rofl, at this point, do you feel ckool is scum or town?

having just skimmed his contribution, scum. if this mastin wagon doesn't work out i'll switch, but mastin is a higher priority. he's got the rb claim shenanigans that he's continuing to push crap theories based on.

Funny that you mention your suspicion of ckool now.

FoS: rofl

[Wickedestjr]

yeah mastin and ckool are both probably scum, but mastin is worlds more likely to be a mafia power role

Did you change your opinion about Hayker?

[Wickedestjr]

I would tend to agree with that theory, but is it worth risking a potential town PR this early in the game?

Just curious, how long would we keep a claimed PR in the game, if they were acting scummy?

[Wickedestjr]

I would tend to agree with that theory, but is it worth risking a potential town PR this early in the game?

yes. his continued insistence that he's blocked some fantasy fourth kill source both nights means that a) he's almost certainly not town and b) if he is town, he's only going to detrimentally lead us on wild goose chases

How important do you think a roleblocker is in comparison to other PRs?

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, I already answered all of the things you mentioned. Why are you using Zazie's post-style anyway?

Sorry, I wasn't caught up. As for the way I've been posting, I have been doing this lately, because commenting on more posts at once isn't quite as fast as one at a time IMO.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry, the last post was mine. I was on a relatives account and they hadn't logged out.

[Wickedestjr]

Some other suspicions I'll throw out there are Wickedestjr and still Achilles.

Can you please explain these suspicions please?

And also, what are your thoughts about Kmd, KK, and VP?

[Wickedestjr]

...I'm seriously crying right now...

I have no idea what arguements to answer, since none of them make a lick of sense to me.

You're not really helping yourself right now.

Also, I am extremely suspicious of Empking's Alt. If I wasn't so suspicious of ckool, then my vote would be on Empking's Alt.

One reason why I think that he is scum is because the whole game he was voting KK, (until he voted MM at the end, but he said that was because of the deadline) who was also Zaz's main target. So I'm thinking they may be possible scum buddies. I also think that ckool was scumbuddies with Zaz, so Empking's Alt's last post only makes me more sure about the three of them being a Vermillion trio, if there are three Vermillions.

So

FoS: Empking's Alt

[Wickedestjr]

If my kill fails, I panic. It means something went wrong, be it doctor (clearing the person protected, in some instances), or roleblocker.

Yeah, but I still don't see why that would make him panic. If VP and Lowell really are his partners, then how come they didn't seem to panic in any way.

Why is this a problem? Surely different people react in different ways?
(Not read the link or the meta behind this. Just saying.)

That is true, but I would have liked Mastin to respond to this question first.

[Wickedestjr]

Why did you feel the need to lurk? Forgive me if you've already answered this, but don't you think it would be better for the town if you gave opinions as often as possible?

Sometimes, people don't choose to lurk, y'know.

He admitted to it. [/quote]

[Wickedestjr]

I believe that ckool is the vig.

Unvote: ckool

Empking and Zaz were both voting KK the whole game. Zaz turned out scum, so;

Vote: Empking's Alt

[Wickedestjr]

Could you go through your thought processes for why you killed Mufasa? And why are you accepting ideas from people in general about tonight, aren't you worried that scum will guide you in the wrong direction?

Thought process:

1. Should I kill Mastin?
2. Maybe later.
3. Let's see, who seems scummy....
4. Mufasa seems scummy...
5. Should I kill SerialClergyman? (seriously, I was thinking of it)
6. Nah.
7. Definitely Zaz. I should definitely kill him...
8. Okay, he's not that scummy.
9. roflcopter? Why are people even voting for him?
10. VP....
11. Kmd!... No, wait... That'll make me look like scum...
12. empking's alt isn't helping much at all... but then again he's not scummy.
13. Mufasa's not helping much, and he does seem scummy.
14. I shall tazer Mufasa.

I'm not 100% sure that that was my thought process, but it probably went like that.

@VP Post 117 on page 5 is when I started arguing about who killed Konowa.

You shouldn't be talking about who you are going to kill tonight.

@rofl - Don't tell ckool who to kill. Let him decide for himself.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry ckool. In the last post I told you not to comment on who you might be killing tonight, but I didn't realize you were talking about your thought process earlier.

Happy scum day xyl!!!

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, do you think Hayker is town or scum as of this moment?

Town

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, do you think Hayker is town or scum as of this moment?

Any particular reason why you ask this question?

Does anybody have any comments on my Empking vote? You have all ignored it.

[Wickedestjr]

Does anybody have any comments on my Empking vote? You have all ignored it.

Your vote is probably better served elsewhere. What are your feelings on the Mastin wagon? Why choose Empking over, say, Achilles, who has acted scummy and has repeatedly said he would catch up, but hasn't?

If I wasn't voting Empking, then I would be taking part in the Mastin bandwagon too. I would rather lynch Empking then Archilles, because, just like Zaz, who turned out scum, he has been voting KK the whole game, and, it's not like lynching him would be much of a loss if he wasn't scum. I also know that his lack of content in the few posts that he has made, is not going to show much. The only evidence we have is where he is using his vote. When reading Archilles in iso, I wasn't so sure about his allignment. I think it may be possible that his lack of posting may be a part of his meta, but I'll have to look more into it.

How suspicious of Empking's Alt are you?

[Wickedestjr]

How suspicious of Empking's Alt are you?

I've pretty much come to the point where I just ignore Emp until necessary/hope something happens to him before that point. I agree that he has acted scummy...but he doesn't act any different in any other game. It's the meta prison he's built for himself, and he has to live with it. I don't think he should ever make it to end game, but I think there are better ways to spend our day 2 lynch.

Don't forget that we will still get at least one more vig if ckool is telling the truth. I'm sure Emp would be on his short list for consideration.

Hmm... True. I guess the Mastin wagon is better atm.

Unvote Vote:Mastin

[Wickedestjr]

That puts him at L-2.

[Wickedestjr]

[quote="Namttam"]Let's call it gut.

You really should not try to post like this. I've already explained my thoughts on some players you asked about. That makes me think you don't really care about my answers at all. That makes my gut reading towards you a little stronger.

But I'll humor you none the less. KK is scum. I'm suspicious of VP. I'm not that suspicious of Kmd. I did a read of him in ISO since you asked and he comes off as town to me. Why do you ask about Kmd? Worried since he was suspicious of you?[quote]

I'm sorry, I didn't remember you saying your opinions on some of those players. I do care about your answers, I want to hear your opinions on other players and sorry if I have asked you something more than once, but I just want as much information in case you get nk'd.

I got an innocent result from Kmd last night too. I was just interested in hearing what others thought about him. I am not worried about Kmd being suspicious of me. He said it was only gut any way.

[Wickedestjr]

Didn't Mastin say something along the lines of "I only have fun when I am under suspicion". And didn't he also say "I only post when I'm having fun." That's a load of BS.

[Wickedestjr]

I got an innocent result from Kmd last night too.

What? Do you not think that Kmd is innocent?

[Wickedestjr]

Oh, I read Kmd in iso last night. And I got a town read on him. Sorry that I worded that strangely.

[Wickedestjr]

There are thirteen of us left. Hmm... I'm assuming that ckool killed Empking's Alt. I was planning on voting Empking's Alt, but I can't do that now. I had this idea earlier of Vp being a possible cop and had inspected Mastin, and maybe he did inspect Mastin. I think we can assume now that there are only two scum groups.


These are the players that are left by the way;

Achilles
curiouskarmadog
Faraday
Hayker
Kmd4390
Kublai Khan
Lowell
molestargazer
Namttam
roflcopter
SerialClergyman
Xylthixlm
Wickedestjr



This is just an idea, but I've noticed that a bunch of people are just jumping on the best bandwagon to not attract suspicion, and others claim that it is just their normal playstyle. But I thought it would be a good idea if those people would come and give their opinions on other players and not just follow a bandwagon that has already been started. I feel that we have let them get away with it for too long. I'm not saying that they are necessarily scum, but we are never going to get a good read on them if there only posts are "Still here re-reading" or "ooh I'll join this bandwagon". Just a suggestion though.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedestjr

: For the weird cop-ish claim towards the end of the day. I wasn't going to bring attention to it because I thought maybe you were the cop, but with VP Baltar's death kinda nixes that idea. My gut is strongly telling me that you were trying to divert the doc protect away from the claimed pro-town killing role.

First of all, it was a mistake, and I am pretty sure I apologized for it. Secondly, if that were an attempt to divert the doc protect, then why would I have posted again shortly before night 2 that it was a mistake. Thirdly, do you think the doc would protect a claimed vig, or somebody that accidentally said something to make him seem like the cop. I seriously doubt that a doc would protect me based on me saying something that sounded like I investigated Kmd during the night. Why would I even admit that I was cop just to point out that I had an innocent result. And why wouldn't I have given the other results too? It was a mistake, I worded something incorrectly. I even explained the mistake. Also, what are the chances that a person would read all the way up to where I made the mistake, and then just happen to not read further to see me explain my mistake?

[Wickedestjr]

can we lynch mastin now? he's just going to continue trying to use his fake rb claim to spin farfetched theories and try to score mislynches with them.

So first you are voting Hayker, then you suddenly switch your vote over to Mastin, and now you are extremely eager to lynch him without even hearing a response from him?

FoS: rofl

That's pretty normal for roflcopter.

Possible Wickedestjr/Mastin scumbuddy tell here.

vote: Wickedestjr

Apart from a few people, I attacked Mastin the most imo. I think there are better lynch candidates. Can you please give us your opinions on the following players;

rofl
Hayker
Achilles
Lowell
curiouskarmadog

I apologize if you've already voiced your opinions on some of these players, but just in case.

[Wickedestjr]

actually, i suspect kmd is cerulean and hayker is vermillion, so

unvote, vote: hayker

What makes you think this?

[Wickedestjr]

actually, i suspect kmd is cerulean and hayker is vermillion, so

unvote, vote: hayker

What makes you think this?

i think there are three members of each team, meaning only one cerulean left. i also think that the vermillion mafia currently want to look like they're hunting for mastin's scumpartner, but they also want to be wrong so they can continue hunting for mastin' scumpartner in the future and continue ignoring the vermillion mafia. trying to lynch me on the basis of thinking i'm mastin's scumpartner fits this framework. also, i already thought hayker was scummy, and if kmd (or namtamm) are the last cerulean, that only leaves vermillion for hayker to be.

So if this truly is what the Vermillions are doing, then do you think it would actually benefit them to try to hunt for the last Cerulean now than later? Why?

[Wickedestjr]

actually, i suspect kmd is cerulean and hayker is vermillion, so

unvote, vote: hayker

What makes you think this?

i think there are three members of each team, meaning only one cerulean left. i also think that the vermillion mafia currently want to look like they're hunting for mastin's scumpartner, but they also want to be wrong so they can continue hunting for mastin' scumpartner in the future and continue ignoring the vermillion mafia. trying to lynch me on the basis of thinking i'm mastin's scumpartner fits this framework. also, i already thought hayker was scummy, and if kmd (or namtamm) are the last cerulean, that only leaves vermillion for hayker to be.

So if this truly is what the Vermillions are doing, then do you think it would actually benefit them to try to hunt for the last Cerulean now than later? Why?

i think they're intentionally getting it wrong now, so that after the first attempted cerulean lynch they can move on to suspect number two (or three, or whatever). to see it this way, of course, it helps that i know i'm not mafia. but you get the idea.

1. Who do you think the other Vermillion would be?

2. What makes you so sure that it is a Vermillion targetting you, and not just a pro-town player that thinks you are scum?

3. Do you think the last Cerulean would be using this tactic too?

[Wickedestjr]

Stop asking for advice on how to play as scum.

Never was, and won't be for the rest of this game. If that is the way you want to interpret it, then too bad.

[Wickedestjr]

1. xyl (he's targeting you as cerulean, ignoring vermillion altogether, thus my earlier q to him of "who's vermillion").

Hmm... That is a good point. I'd like to hear what Xyl would like to say about this. But for now I think I'll just give him an

FoS: Xyl

2. because the idea that i bussed my only remaining partner out of the gate on day one is patently absurd.

I still think townies could have accused you of this. I doubt mafia would deliberately try and get rid of somebody for a bad reason that they even think is bad.

or its namtamm, who hasn't even posted yet today.

Haven't only six people posted today? I think nam is more likely to be a cerulean though. As for Kmd fanning flames away, I may have misinterpereted that metaphor, but isn't that what we all should be doing?
Every role (except a jester) has a better chance of winning if they prevent themselves from getting lynched. No?

[Wickedestjr]

I really like the pace that the game is going right now, but I'm sure I won't tomorrow morning when I wake up with ten more pages to read.

I think the Ceruleans may have been planning to kill VP once Mastin was dead. Does anybody else think this?

[Wickedestjr]

I still think townies could have accused you of this. I doubt mafia would deliberately try and get rid of somebody for a bad reason that they even think is bad.

Humans are amazing at lying to themselves. It's called "cognitive dissonance". It's a great scumtell if you can spot it.

And this is only done by scum?

[Wickedestjr]

Seems like Wickedestjr is the last Cerulean, or completely bonkers.

Still hunting Vermillion. Namttam looks promising.

Like I said, I feel that I was one of the few players that attacked Mastin the most. I don't think you replied to that.

Why do you think Namttam is Vermillion?

[Wickedestjr]

Like I said, I feel that I was one of the few players that attacked Mastin the most. I don't think you replied to that.

What changed your mind from day 1, when you said he was "contributing to the scum hunting" and "helping the game roll along"?

Why do you think Namttam is Vermillion?

If Namttam is scum and you're Cerulean, that would make Namttam Vermillion. Duh.

Scum contribute. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't people suspicious of Nam, because of his link with Mastin. This would only make sense if he was a Cerulean.

[Wickedestjr]

@rofl - Would you rather lynch somebody who you think is a Cerulean, or somebody who you think is a Vermillion?

@Anybody - What were the main reasons for people being suspicious of Nam?

[Wickedestjr]

I think the Ceruleans may have been planning to kill VP once Mastin was dead. Does anybody else think this?

I'm not sure what you mean here, we know this happened, so yeh I do think this.

VP attacked Mastin a lot, and therefore killing VP before Mastin's death would make Mastin look bad. That was just my opinion though. I could be wrong.

[Wickedestjr]

i think i've been forgetting something. did mastin ever claim to have blocked vp baltar? i know baltar was part of that fantasy scumteam he was trying to pitch us. if he was blocked by mastin that explains why its been so hard to find evidence of investigation results in his posts.

Mastin never said that he roleblocked VP. He said that he roleblocked Khan and Lowell.

[Wickedestjr]

There is scum on the MM wagon. Likely more than one.

I remember voting because it was MM or no lynch

, and Hayker voted later than I did. That means that we can find scum in the following list:
Serial
Wicked
Rofl
Lowell
Faraday

That is one of the main reasons why I voted MM too. I think that Lowell might be a Vermillion. He has been acting strangely and wanted Mastin lynched.

[Wickedestjr]

Kmd, I don't understand why you are voting me. For being on both wagons? You also have me listed as scummiest on your big catch up post. Care to elaborate on that? Notice that the only dead people that were on both wagons were ckool and VP. They were both innocent. So you are just assuming that I'm scum? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Wickedestjr]

In my previous post, when I said "big catch up post" I meant to say "big analysis post". Sorry.

[Wickedestjr]

@SerialClergyman - Who are you top five suspects?

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, asking for 5 scum suspects is over the top, given it's most likely that there's only 3 scum left in the game. At the moment I think we can afford to be a little more considered than another spray and pray list.

To give you an idea, I think Namtam is the scummiest based on his own posting (not looking at gamestate.) His posts ride on other people's work, which is something I've never liked, and his targets have been suspicious. From the latter stages of D1 - He voted KK for much of D1, then VP Baltar at the end of D1 and through D2 until he voted rofl in the same post he says he's convinced ckool is scum and never unvotes. Each time he voted he gives either little reason or uses the reasons other people have made. I'm going to re-read him further when I have some more mafia time.

I would be extremely surprised if at least 1 of KMD, rofl and Xyl were not scum. I think each of those players are interacting with each other in such a way that at least one of them is looking to manipulate to gain an advantage. I think if rofl is scum he would be vermillion, and that would make Xyl probably vermillion with him. I explained why I think there may be a link between those two on D2, but essentially it's due to Xyl taking suspicion off rofl via a meta argument that he then seemed to contradict. KMD has done a few things to tweak my radar, some of which I posted in the post above (U-turn on rofl + mentioning neighbor for zero reason).

I have a lot of nulls due to meta or lurking. I think that Achilles is being prodded as we speak and could well be replaced. Lowell's meta excuses his low post count/content but makes a read hard.

Why do you ask, Wicked?

I was wondering if you had abandoned your Achilles case.

[Wickedestjr]

Kmd, how come you didn't vote rofl until Khan did? If you've already answered this, please tell me the post number.

[Wickedestjr]

There is scum on the MM wagon. Likely more than one.

I remember voting because it was MM or no lynch

, and Hayker voted later than I did. That means that we can find scum in the following list:
Serial
Wicked
Rofl
Lowell
Faraday

That is one of the main reasons why I voted MM too. I think that Lowell might be a Vermillion. He has been acting strangely and wanted Mastin lynched.

Um, no. I'm not buying that you placed the second vote out of eleven solely to avoid a no lynch.

Well that is the truth.

Kmd, I don't understand why you are voting me. For being on both wagons? You also have me listed as scummiest on your big catch up post. Care to elaborate on that? Notice that the only dead people that were on both wagons were ckool and VP. They were both innocent. So you are just assuming that I'm scum? Doesn't make sense to me.

First, I have a gut scum read on you. My gut wants me to vote either you or Nam. Second, my analysis assumes that a townie like MM is scumbait. Scum love players like that. Easy lynches. There is no way no scum voted him. Also, Mastin can be looked at the same way when looking for Vermilion. Cerulean probably avoided the Mastin wagon. So not only can I conclude that you are scum, but Vermilion as well.

So you are going to lynch me based on a gut read and doing something that two dead townies did too?

[Wickedestjr]

WickedestJr looks worse and worse the more he posts.

Care to elaborate? Your only reason for voting me so far was that you thought me and Mastin were scumbuddies. Sounds like scum going for an easy lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

Why do you ask, Wicked?

I was wondering if you had abandoned your Achilles case.

bullshit meter is going off. Why did you care about SC's case when there are tons of other stuff going on right now?

What are your current thoughts on rofl? Hay? KMD? If he didn’t mention Achilles..what would that have told you?

I was interested in seeing whether SC had abandoned his Achilles case. If he had, I may have been a little suspicious.

My reads on those three;

rofl: neutral
hayker: town
Kmd: neutral

[Wickedestjr]

I believe the mason claim too.

[Wickedestjr]

WickedestJr looks worse and worse the more he posts.

Care to elaborate? Your only reason for voting me so far was that you thought me and Mastin were scumbuddies. Sounds like scum going for an easy lynch.

Every post of yours is scummy. Anyone who views you in iso should see it.

It is just my playstyle. You can glance at my other games, and I play the exact same way in them.

[Wickedestjr]

I am an Emerald Mason and so is Hayker. We can talk to each other at night, and we are positive that the other is innocent.

[Wickedestjr]

What was your thought process? Because I just can't picture, "well, he has a vote, so it's either him or no one."

After the first Mastin bandwagon resulted in Mastin's claim, I decided to go for the best alternative, which I thought was MafiaMann. The deadline was about a week away, and we had to get a big bandwagon. If we didn't, we may have got a power role to claim, and then we most likely would have no time to lynch somebody else. There were other people willing to lynch MM, the case on him was good, so we started a bandwagon on him. He ended up not being a power role, so it would have not been the biggest loss.

Hey, just because townies voted MM doesn't mean that scum didn't. Do you honestly think there was no scum on that lynch? And I'm willing to lynch you because I think you are scum.

Every game I have played prior to this game. I have been lynched. And I have played 5 games of mafia prior to this one. Not all on this site though. Regardless of my allignment, I always give people the impression that I am scum. That is probably the reason why you and Xyl think I am scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Rofl, didn't you want to take out Vermilion first? And you said Cerulean would be the ones who want to be wrong. So if Xyl was Vermilion, shouldn't he actually believe the cases he pushes? Xyl is either Cerulean or town.

Yeah, that makes sense about Hayker. He needs a partnerclaim. And they need to say how many there are. Can't let scum try anything. I'm not Hayker's masonbuddy.

I think the Cerulean is more likely to be trying right now. They have more people to hunt. While, the Vermillions only have one guy left (or at least that's what we think). So, I think that Xyl might be a Vermillion.

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: Xyl

-He tried to lynch a player without even giving reasons.
-He is being lazy.
-He hasn't posted many opinions on other players.

[Wickedestjr]

Every game I have played prior to this game. I have been lynched. And I have played 5 games of mafia prior to this one. Not all on this site though. Regardless of my allignment, I always give people the impression that I am scum. That is probably the reason why you and Xyl think I am scum.

Appeal to emotion isn't going to change the pattern.

I wasn't planning on having everybody being sympathetic towards me because of that quote. I was just pointing it out.

[Wickedestjr]

I went back to look at this, thinking wicked's "result" might have been a mason breadcrumb if it was on hayker, but no it wasn't. It's still really strange. It totally looks like a backpedal. This was a big reason for my attack on wicked.

I got an innocent result from Kmd last night too. I was just interested in hearing what others thought about him. I am not worried about Kmd being suspicious of me. He said it was only gut any way.

Oh, I read Kmd in iso last night. And I got a town read on him. Sorry that I worded that strangely.

Wicked, can you reconstruct the thought process that caused you to word "I got a town read" as "I got an innocent result"?

If this is one of the reasons for why you wanted me lynch, then why did you not say it until now? Also, when I said I got an innocent result, I meant the result from my iso reading of him. I am sure I have said this somewhere else.

[Wickedestjr]

What is VC analysis? I saw Kmd mention it a few times.

Also, I still don't understand what neighbours are. Can somebody explain to me what they are? Once I get a better understanding, I may be able to give my opinion about it.

Also, what is strawman?

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, can you reconstruct the thought process that caused you to word "I got a town read" as "I got an innocent result"?

If this is one of the reasons for why you wanted me lynch, then why did you not say it until now?

1: I usually start bandwagons without giving all (or any) of my reasons. It helps figure out who is actually scumhunting.

Also, when I said I got an innocent result, I meant the result from my iso reading of him. I am sure I have said this somewhere else.

2:I know that's what you said. I want to know if you can explain what would lead you to make that mistake in the first place.

1: How?

2: Somebody, I think VP, said that they read Kmd in iso and got an innocent read on him (an innocent result from reading Kmd in iso). I had also read Kmd in iso night one, so I said that I had gotten an innocent result too. I was not intending on directing the doc protection, but I don't think I did.

[Wickedestjr]

VC = vote count

"Neighbour" is another name for unconfirmed mason

Strawman is the classical logical fallacy where you misrepresent your opponent's argument then attack the misrepresentation

Thanks

Well, I'm willing to believe that Molestargazer is innocent. But here are the possibilities;

Molestargazer is innocent -

If this is the case then there are at least two groups of neighbours, but probably no more than that. If there are two groups of neighbours, then I would expect them to be balanced (one scum, one town per group, or two townies per group). If they are and Molestargazer, and Empking are both innocent, that would probably mean that Mufasa's neighbour is probably innocent too, so he should probably claim.


Molestargazer is scum -

If he is scum, then he could be telling the truth, or lying;


Telling the truth -

This probably means that the other neighbour group has one scum, and one townie per group. I don't know if the scum neighbour would claim or not. I am not really sure which would benefit them the most. Probably keeping it secret.


Lying -

There is probably only one group of neighbours.


I am not sure if this helps any, but I thought some people might find it helpful. Does anybody else think that the neighbour groups are equal?

[Wickedestjr]

Hmm, wicked is assuming that the scumgroups are symmetrical.

I'm assuming the neighbour groups are symmetrical.

Breadcrumb?

Well, I wouldn't have said it if we weren't masons.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked -

2: Somebody, I think VP, said that they read Kmd in iso and got an innocent read on him (an innocent result from reading Kmd in iso). I had also read Kmd in iso night one, so I said that I had gotten an innocent result too. I was not intending on directing the doc protection, but I don't think I did.

What makes you think that you didn't draw a protection from a doc?

See post 1368.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked - that post explains why you think a doctor wouldn't protect you over ckool. But we know for a fact that if there is a doctor, he didn't protect ckool (though there is some possibility that there's another mechanic like a roleblocker blocking him).

So doesn't this point to the possibility that you drew the protection of a doc?

I disagree. I think that I was just as likely to get protected as the other non-semi-confirmed players, because of my clarification that I wasn't actually claiming cop. It could have been misinterpreted, but I seriously doubt it.

[Wickedestjr]

@Lowell - I am not the only person who has made comments like the one in post 636.

[Wickedestjr]

@Lowell (again) - Why did you wait until now to post these opinions. Have you completely missed days 2 and 3?

[Wickedestjr]

751- wicked says good points by VP, but he wants to hear from mastin before voting [-, really?]

What's wrong with that?

788- wicked annoyed by ppl voting mastin (mufasa, Lowell) [-, derailment]

You make that seem much worse than it actually is. I was annoyed with mufasa and Lowell voting without reasons. What is so bad about that? Shouldn't people give reasons for their votes?

813- wicked still annoyed by people voting mastin (ckool)

Once again, I was mad at him because he didn't give a reason for his vote, not because he was voting him. Interesting how you failed to mention that twice.

4) People who look REALLY bad:

wicked

- he's falling all over himself trying to protect mastin. His 751, followed immediately by 753 make no sense. In addition, his whining about people voting masin in 788 and 813 looks bad. Yes, yes, I realize those three votes (Lowell, mafiamann, ckool) were cast without much or any explanation, but WICKED HIMSELF WAS VOTING MASTIN ALSO, and supposedly found him scummy. I find it hard to believe that a town voting his best instinct would be angry when other people join the bandwagon. He's trying to play both ways: being on the mastin wagon early, but complaining when it gets closer to lynch. Very very scummy.

*I was not protecting Mastin. \

*I don't understand how posts 751 and 753 are supposedly linked.

*I wasn't angry about people joining the wagon. I was angry about them not giving reasons. I am glad they joined the wagon, but they really should give reasons for their votes.

*I was not complaining when it was getting closer to lynch, I was complaining about people not giving reasons for their votes. They are two completely different things imo.

*Your misrepping of me is awfully scummy.

[Wickedestjr]

1186- wicked votes ckool after convincing himself [----, mastin the other suspect]

I thought ckool was Vermillion at the time. Did you not want me hunting Vermillions?

wicked

- as ever, defending mastin.

BS

Right after ckd switched his vote from ckool to mastin (after the two town roleblockers was pointed out) but leaving the door open for voting ckool, wicked jumps in with a post saying "hey, maybe ckool is scum,"

What post number was this?

[Wickedestjr]

The day's going pretty quick but since one of the two wagon's is on me(who is town) and the other is on someone I find likely to be scum, I will Vote:Xylthixlm.

The day's going pretty quick but since one of the two wagon's is on me(who is town) and the other is on someone I find likely to be scum, I will unvote, vote Namttam

Heh. That's pretty funny.

Vote: Namttam

That's 6 of 7. You should probably hit us with a good reason not to lynch.

Vote: Nam

That is really scummy.

[Wickedestjr]

He's at L-1.

[Wickedestjr]

what is really scummy?

Oh wait, who said that first? I thought that Nam said it after Xyl. My bad.

@KK - Why did you vote for Nam if he made the comment first?

Even more of a reason to vote Xyl then.

Vote: Xyl

[Wickedestjr]

I think that Xyl and Nam need to claim, don't they? They are both at L-2.

[Wickedestjr]

I agree that Spyre getting everything right is scummy. I would have gotten two or three of those assumptions right. He got all six right. He might as well tell us who the rest of the scum are. It also seems too good to be true.

I know, if me and hayker weren't masons, then we'd be screwed.

Xyl, I think you should claim if you haven't yet.

[Wickedestjr]

Voting Records (thought it might help)

Achilles/SpyreX

- /Namttam

BloodCovenent/Lowell

- /hayker, mastin, MafiaMann, Xylthixlm, hayker, hayker, Xylthixlm

cateraction/curiouskarmadog

- /Mastin, Mufasa, ckool5000, Mastin, Xylthixlm.

ckool5000

- Kublai Khan, Mastin, Mufasa, MafiaMann, Mastin

dvdkid13/Kmd4390

- /roflcopter, MafiaMann, roflcopter, Mastin, roflcopter, Wickedestjr, Namttam.

Empking's Alt

- Mastin, fallen angel, Kublai Khan, MafiaMann, Kublai Khan

fallen angel/Xylthixlm

- Johnny Rotten, ckool5000/hayker, Mastin, ckool5000, Mastin, Wickedestjr, Lowell, Namttam

Faraday

- hayker, MafiaMann, hayker, hayker

Hayker

- Johnny Rotten, roflcopter, MafiaMann, roflcopter, ckool5000, roflcopter, Lowell

Johnny Rotten/VP Baltar

- Mastin/MafiaMann, Mastin, MafiaMann, Mufasa, MafiaMann, ckool, Mastin

Kise

- Johnny Rotten

Kublai Khan

- Mastin, Lowell, ckool5000, Mastin, roflcopter, hayker, Namttam

MafiaMann

- hayker, Mastin

Mufasa

- Johnny Rotten, Mastin, MafiaMann

Namttam

- hayker, Johnny Rotten, VP Baltar, Kublai Khan, VP Baltar, Xylthixlm

Redith/molestargazer

- /Mufasa, Lowell, hayker

Reveillark/SerialClergyman

- Johnny Rotten/ VP Baltar, Achilles, MafiaMann, ckool5000, Mastin, Namttam

roflcopter

- Mastin, hayker, Mastin, MafiaMann, hayker, Mastin, ckool5000, Mastin, Kmd4390, hayker, Xylthixlm

Wickedestjr

- Empking's Alt, dvdkid13, Mastin, MafiaMann, Empking's Alt, Mastin, Xylthixlm, Namttam, Xylthixlm

ZazieR

- Kublai Khan

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry I didn't post my opinions. That post took me like an hour, and my eyes really hurt, and I have to let somebody else on this computer. I will post my opinions next time I get the chance.

[Wickedestjr]

I added more information to the table. I will comment on it after lunch.

Player/Replacement

- Who they voted - Number of distinct players voted for - number of votes given
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Achilles/SpyreX

- /Namttam - 1 - 1

BloodCovenent/Lowell

- /hayker,

mastin

,

MafiaMann,

Xylthixlm, hayker, hayker, Xylthixlm - 4 - 7

cateraction/curiouskarmadog

- /

Mastin

,

Mufasa, ckool5000,

Mastin

, Xylthixlm - 4 - 5

ckool5000

- Kublai Khan,

Mastin,

Mufasa, MafiaMann,

Mastin

- 4 - 5

dvdkid13/Kmd4390

- /roflcopter,

MafiaMann,

roflcopter,

Mastin,

roflcopter, Wickedestjr, Namttam - 5 - 7

Empking's Alt

-

Mastin,

fallen angel, Kublai Khan,

MafiaMann,

Kublai Khan - 4 - 5

fallen angel/Xylthixlm

-

Johnny Rotten,

ckool5000

/hayker,

Mastin,

ckool5000,

Mastin,

Wickedestjr, Lowell, Namttam - 2/6 - 2/7

Faraday

- hayker,

MafiaMann,

hayker, hayker - 2 - 4

Hayker

-

Johnny Rotten,

roflcopter,

MafiaMann,

roflcopter,

ckool5000,

roflcopter, Lowell - 5 - 7

Johnny Rotten/VP Baltar

-

Mastin

/

MafiaMann

,

Mastin,

MafiaMann, Mufasa, MafiaMann, ckool,

Mastin

- 1/4 - 1/7

Kise

- Johnny Rotten

- 1 - 1

Kublai Khan

-

Mastin,

Lowell,

ckool5000,

Mastin,

roflcopter, hayker, Namttam - 6 - 7

MafiaMann

- hayker,

Mastin

- 2 - 2

Mastin

- Kublai Khan,

VP Baltar

Mufasa

-

Johnny Rotten,

Mastin,

MafiaMann

- 3 - 3

Namttam

- hayker,

Johnny Rotten, VP Baltar

, Kublai Khan,

VP Baltar,

Xylthixlm - 5 - 6

Redith/molestargazer

- /

Mufasa,

Lowell, hayker - 3 - 3

Reveillark/SerialClergyman

-

Johnny Rotten/ VP Baltar

, Achilles,

MafiaMann, ckool5000,

Mastin,

Namttam - 1/6 - 1/6

roflcopter

-

Mastin

, hayker,

Mastin

,

MafiaMann,

hayker,

Mastin,

ckool5000,

Mastin,

Kmd4390, hayker, Xylthixlm - 6 - 11

Wickedestjr

-

Empking's Alt

, dvdkid13,

Mastin,

MafiaMann, Empking's Alt,

Mastin,

Xylthixlm, Namttam, Xylthixlm - 7 - 9

ZazieR

- Kublai Khan - 1 - 1

[Wickedestjr]

I think the scum are amongst these seven;
SpyreX
Lowell
curiouskarmadog
Kmd4390
Xylthixlm
Faraday
Namttam

To be honest, the voting records I posted haven't really pointed anything out to me. Hopefully someone can make something of it though. I will continue to analyze it.

Player/how many times they were voted for


Mastin - 23
Hayker - 14
MafiaMann - 13
Xylthixlm - 7
ckool5000 - 7
roflcopter - 7
Johnny Rotten - 6
Kublai Khan - 6
Namttam - 6
VP Baltar - 5
Lowell - 4
Mufasa - 4
Empking's Alt - 2
Wickedestjr - 2
molestargazer- 1
Achilles - 1
dvdkid13 - 1
Kmd4390 - 1
fallen angel - 1

In a few minutes I'm going to post who has voted for the people at the top of the list. Those are probably the people that are going with the flow.

[Wickedestjr]

roflcopter and VP Baltar were on most of the biggest bandwagons, but considering they started most of the bandwagons, I think it is safe to say that they are innocent, or at least rofl, because we already know VP is. Apart from them the two people who were on most of the big bandwagons were Xylthixlm and Lowell. The two of them have been going with the flow most of the time so I think the two of them are most likely to be scum.

[Wickedestjr]

I am surprised that rofl died last night. I still like my vote from yesterday;

Vote: Xyl

[Wickedestjr]

Hmmmm. Why would Vermillion kill roflcopter?

Why don't you tell us?

Town

Achilles

SpyreX

dvdkid13

Kmd4390

fallen angel

Xylthixlm
Hayker
Wickedestjr

Maybe Not Town

BloodCovenent

Lowell

cateraction

curiouskarmadog
Faraday
Kublai Khan

reveillark

SerialClergyman

The list of people who I don't think are town is getting shorter. Let's try to lynch a scum today, mmm?

How are Kmd and SpyreX in your town list?

I am surprised that rofl died last night. I still like my vote from yesterday;

Vote: Xyl

1: why?

2: also, I am surprised that both you and Hay are around today.

3: does the mole kill not surprise you? Why or why not?

1: For the reasons I said yesterday, and rofl's good case on him.

2: I am a little bit too, but there are a few reasons why we are still alive;

a.) Each scum group thought the other would kill one of us.

b.) Scum didn't see us as the biggest threats.

c.) They might be trying to frame us.


3: Nobody seemed to doubt that he was town.


I don't see why Lowell would breadcrumb neighbour if he wasn't planning on turning himself in, but I am still suspicious of him.

Vote Serial

Why? What was the point of this vote? Imo it doesn't have any point if it has no uses, and it isn't at all obvious what he has done that is scummy.

[Wickedestjr]

I think Lowell should claim before anybody else votes him. He's at L-2.

[Wickedestjr]

Maybe Not Town

Kublai Khan

I don't have a confident town read on Kublai, but based on his claim I think he's probably town.

Umm... Contradiction?

[Wickedestjr]

I don't really understand it either. I think that molestargazer was killed just because he was a threat.

Faraday, what makes you think that the scum neighbour would be more likely to kill molestargazer than anybody else?

[Wickedestjr]

Ceruleans Murdered;
elvis_knits
ZazieR
VP Baltar
molestargazer


Vermillions slaughtered;
Sotty7
Kise
ckool5000
roflcopter

Thought this might help. The Vermillions have been making strange kills. I don't know how good Sotty7 is, but Kise was not really one of the big threats to the scum after day 1. That seemed kind of like a random kill. Night 2 they killed ckool, who was pretty much confirmed innocent because everybody believed his claim. Then night 3 they kill roflcopter who actually was a threat to the scum imo. It's wierd how night 1 they kill somebody that isn't much of a threat, and then kill roflcopter, one of the threats, night 3. This makes me think that one of the Vermillions was somebody that got replaced during day 2 or day 3. The only person that did was SpyreX. This would make sense considering he has been acting scummy. I think he might be a better lynch candidate.

Unvote: Xyl

Vote: SpyreX

[Wickedestjr]

I am unsure about Lowell. If he was scum, then I would have no idea what group he would be in, because I don't think that either one makes that much sense. I think that the not wanting to claim is a null tell. It doesn't really change my read on Lowell which is scum/neutral.

Personally, I wouldn't want to kill off people that I thought were opposing scum, because once one of the scum groups is gone, the remaining scum group won't have anybody to go after.

molestargazer's play wasn't much of a threat, but scum may have seen him as a threat due to the number of people who believed he was innocent.

If many others think that my current accusation is weak then I'll change back, but I think it has a little bit of merit to it.

As for Lowell, I don't think him saying I am Mufasa's Alt is a breadcrumb.

[Wickedestjr]

As for Lowell, I don't think him saying I am Mufasa's Alt is a breadcrumb.

noted, what do you think it meant then?


also Lowell's lack of claim is bullshit.

I thought it was simply a joke.

[Wickedestjr]

As for Lowell, I don't think him saying I am Mufasa's Alt is a breadcrumb.

noted, what do you think it meant then?


also Lowell's lack of claim is bullshit.

I thought it was simply a joke.

Jokes are great places to hide breadcrumbs. After all, the point of a breadcrumb is that it should only be obvious if you know what you're looking for.

Maybe, but I'm still not sure about it. Care to reply to post 1918?

[Wickedestjr]

How is "maybe not town" the equivalent of "probably town". They are completely different.

[Wickedestjr]

I find it interesting that Xyl thinks Kmd and SpyreX are certainly town, because the three people I'm most suspicious of just happen to be Xyl, SpyreX, and Kmd.

[Wickedestjr]

Thinking it through, my three top suspects may have all been wrong, because I'm considering another scum pair, but I don't know who would be the last Cerulean.

Unvote

I may have to re-read the thread.

[Wickedestjr]

What are the cases against SerialClergyman and Faraday?

[Wickedestjr]

What is IIoA and can you give some examples?

[Wickedestjr]

I agree with your scum read on SerialClergyman. Didn't see much at first, but looking at his posts in iso, it would make sense if he was scum. And if he was scum, then I think I know who his scumbuddy is. A Serial Clergyman bandwagon is also the only way to get us somewhere, so I'll see what happens;

Vote: SerialClergyman

[Wickedestjr]

Hmm... I'm not sure about the SerialClergyman bandwagon.

Unvote

I need to think about this some more.

[Wickedestjr]

Current working hypothesis: SerialClergyman and Faraday are Vermillion together. I'm unsure whether curiouskarmadog is Cerulean, or whether Lowell is Cerulean and curiouskarmadog is Vermillion. In either case Lowell is not the best lynch.

I doubt he's Cerulean, he pushed for the Mastin lynch day one even after Mastin claimed.

also, since we had this interaction, can you please post some updated %s, because you want us to believe you think they are helpful, I for one am curious how they have changed now

Why? And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that the percentages meant nothing to you?

First thing I notice, immediately, is that the person you are attacking in those quotes of yours ("Empking") is town. So, after two games of accusing someone of being scummy for "backtracking" and having them come up town, you haven't learned anything? Noted.

How is this game different from the fourth or fifth game that CKD has done this?

Vote: Xyl

The last page, I have gotten a scum read on him.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: Can you please prod Kublai Khan? Thanks!

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: Xyl

The last page, I have gotten a scum read on him.

And

this

, ladies and gentlemen, is why I try to ignore attacks on me if I can. Too many people view the simple act of defense as scummy and don't even realize they're doing so.

No, I am voting you because of all your weak attacks of CKD during pages 80 and 81.

I'm giving you the chance to pick the game which will demonstrate your point the best. If you don't want to, I'll just pick one randomly.

I don't see how a townie would benefit from randomly choosing evidence to use.

So he's probably not Cerulean, and probably not Vermillion. What does that make him?

I don't see where I said he wasn't Vermillion. I still think that is a possibility, and don't see why it couldn't be.

[Wickedestjr]

No, I am voting you because of all your weak attacks of CKD during pages 80 and 81.

1: Which attacks are you calling "weak"?

I don't see how a townie would benefit from randomly choosing evidence to use.

2:

That's why I gave him a chance to pick.

1: Let's just say that none of your points convinced me.

2: So? Just because he doesn't pick a game, doesn't mean you randomly pick. If you are going to accuse somebody of playing the way they play as scum, you should have some recent games in which they were town, and some recent games in which they were scum to use for reference. Don't you agree?

• CKD's attacks on me in this game contain loaded questions, which according to Wikipedia is a logical fallacy.

I think it's a null tell. I have seen townies ask pretty stupid questions. I have asked some pretty stupid questions when I was town. Give me the three worst questions that CKD has asked in this game in your opinion, and that may change my mind.

• CKD has definitely used similar attacks, including loaded questions, in a previous game where he was scum.

I'm sure he has done the same as town. Has he even tried to give examples? If he hasn't, then I'd like to hear from him too.

• CKD has not shown any cases of him using similar attacks in any previous game where he was town.

I'm waiting for some too.

as I think you were both voting for Mastin for a fair bit of the game

From memory, I recall SC being on the Mastin wagon near the end of day 2. And Xyl wasn't on that wagon very long either.

[/list]

[Wickedestjr]

1: Looking through every game CKD has played as town would be a poor use of my time, and if CKD doesn't pick I have no reason to pick any one game over another. 2: So I'd just pick one. ("Random" here doesn't mean selected by chance, it means selected arbitrarily.)

3: I asked CKD to provide a town example and he hasn't. I'm assuming that's because he can't.

1: Well if you don't look at his town meta, you won't know if what he does when he is scum is normal or not. I don't see how it could be a poor use of your time if you are trying to lynch him for meta reasons.

2: That's not a good idea in my opinion. If you really are town, what if you pick a game where he just happens to play differently. If you are scum, which you could be, you could pick the game that is the worst example in CKD's favor.

3: Has he said that he won't provide examples? I think that if you are going to pick a game randomly, then you should wait for him to say that he won't be posting any examples.

KK, why are you in a rush to get the day over?

What's wrong about this quote? Doesn't seem wrong to me.

you are back tracking and contradicting to the extreme yourself to avoid this lynch, why?

When was this question asked? What post? Who was it directed at? I don't know much about it.

If you think he is scum of any variety, why is it a bad lynch? How is it protown to lead people away from a lynch of someone YOU THINK IS SCUM?

I don't think this question is so bad. If he was just mis-repping somebody, then they could clarify. (Instead of ignoring the question.)
I believe this question was directed at you. If yo really are town, then you must of had a reason to direct the lynch away from Lowell, even though you think he is scum. What is that reason?

Does that seem like it's from the same player who is making wild assumptions and misrepresentations about what I said, and then immediately accusing me of contradictions without even trying to get clarification?

It's one quote, from one game, from somebody who I assume as played many games on this site, picked by a person I don't trust very well. Not enough reference for me. Apart from the second one maybe, those questions aren't so bad. I want CKD to give examples of asking those kind of questions as town. I seriously doubt that he does it only as scum.

Ohh masons, what can't you do.

What? What have you thought about the last few pages and Xyl and CKD's arguing with each other. Who's side do you stand on?

Why would I breadcrumb mason and then deny it? Still reading, but this is the part of the case against me that is the dumbest. Wouldn't I, um, WANT people to think I'm a mason?

Thanks for playing Lowell. Some people are accusing you of being a neighbour. Neighbours are not necessarily town, that's why we think you're lying.

short answer...I attack the same way as scum or town. Do I think they are loaded?..no

Can you find examples of questions that are similar to the ones Xyl is accusing you of?

[Wickedestjr]

Hmm... Has anybody noticed that some people haven't been posing lately. I feel like this whole day is just Xyl and CKD arguing, me trying to get Xyl lynched, SpyreX making pointless comments once in a while, SerialClergyman posting content sometimes, Faraday, Kmd, Hayker, Kublai Khan not posting much, and Lowell not playing at all, even though he is about to get lynched. This is the point in the game where we actually need people to give the game their full attention.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: I will be on vacation for the next week. I will have little to no computer access.

Please try not to lynch somebody until I get back please.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, I just skimmed the first 30 pages of the game looking at the players and their relations to each other, ZazieR, and Mastin to draw some conclusions. I have made a lot of interesting discoveries;

1. All doubts about Kublai Khan being scum have officially been washed away. He is definitely town imo. Mastin and ZazieR attacked him quite a bit.

2. Faraday isn't Cerulean. It just wouldn't make sense to me. His first post in the game made it seem to me like the two of them aren't scum buddies.

3. Lowell isn't Cerulean. This one was kind of obvious. Also self explanatory.

4. CKD isn't Cerulean. This isn't a conclusion that I had gotten from the first thirty pages, but I recall CKD really wanting Mastin lynched.

5. Xyl is not scum. I know, it's probably surprising to hear this from me. Sorry Xyl for wanting to lynch you so much. After looking at the first thirty pages, it wouldn't make sense for Fallen Angel to be scum buddies with Mastin or ZazieR. So

Unvote: Xyl

.

6. SerialClergyman isn't scum. Same reason for doubting that Xyl isn't scum.

7. Achilles and Faraday aren't scum buddies if they are vermillions. I don't remember exactly how I came to this conclusion, I just remember Faraday accusing Achilles of something I think.

8. Dvdkid13 and Faraday aren't scum buddies if they are vermillions. Same reason as point 7.

So, after all these observations, I have come to the conclusion that either SpyreX is Cerulean, or Kmd is Cerulean. They are only two that I haven't really cleared yet.

For now, I think Kmd is more likely Cerulean. Mastin never seemed to even talk about Dvd that much. This vote may change but

Vote: Kmd

[Wickedestjr]

I'm pretty sure about Xyl, because Mastin and ZazieR's interactions with Fallen Angel didn't seem like a bus. SerialClergyman on the other hand, I am pretty sure he isn't Cerulean. I guess there is a chance that he could be Vermillion, but that doesn't make sense to me either. I better post some more in my other games or people will get jealous.

But, in case I don't get a chance to post anymore in this game. I think that Kmd is Cerulean, and SpyreX is Vermillion along with CKD. However Faraday, Lowell, and even SerialClergyman could be somewhere in there instead.

[Wickedestjr]

*Catching up*

I thought he was totally obv scum, and then he claimed, and now I don't.

Why exactly did the town claim make you think he was town?

I think the remaining scum are in Lowell, SC, Xyl and KMD.

What about CKD? You never mentioned him in the post you made this sentence.

Lowell has to be scum, I'm sure of it.

What do you have to say about it now?

KMD, I have seen you post paragraphs upon paragraphs of detailed thoughts...here you are lurking...why?

KMD = Scum


*KMD - Why did you wait so long to make a post like post number 2203? And also, why did you start posting more? What happened to cause that increase in post frequency?

If you say I have no stance, Serial is my top suspect. I have been voting him practically forever and want him lynched ASAP.

I don't recall you posting a case.


I'm only at page 90 so far. Sorry about that. I should be caught up tomorrow if I'm lucky. But so far, my reads still stand.

Could everybody post their scumlist please? Thank you.

@SerialClergyman - Have you been scum in any recent games that have finished?

Okay, just so people know where I stand. Here is my scum list (higher up the list are the people I have the strongest town reads on);


Town;
Kublai Khan


Neutral;
Xylthixlm
SerialClergyman
Faraday


Scum;
curiouskarmadog
SpyreX
Kmd4390


Oh, and one more thing I'd like to point out. SpyreX's play is nothing like his play in Twilight Mafia that just finished. He was town in that game, and posted much more content in that game. Just something I'd like you to think about.

[Wickedestjr]

Funny no one has asked me to claim. Anyone curious why KMD implies that Lowel’s lack of claim is guiding his vote (vote lowel because he thought he declined to claim, then unvotes after he "missed" it). That claim must be awful important to KMD. So he votes me. Anyone curious why KMD doesn’t ask for my claim then?

He knows I am at -1.

Anyone curious why KMD has been spouting all day that he prefers a Lowell lynch (though still not really stating why) over mine then suddenly votes me last minute?

He's scum. That's why.

I am a Hider bitches. That’s why I have had such an issue with the amount of pro town roles claims…a miller, two sets of neighbors, a set of masons, a hider. I cant hide two nights back to back. If I hide behind someone who dies, I die. If I hide behind mafia, I die. I win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and if at least one protown player survives.

I don't believe the claim.

if CKD's claim is correct, he MUST KNOW that someone is innocent.

How come?

I have hid once...not saying what night, only scum would want to know that, behind KK.

Why would you behind him?!?! He has a top NK candidate every single night of the game!!!

Checking now.. nobody vote.

What changed in your head between that unvote and revote?

Unless CKD is playing games within games the "I thought I was hammered" rings town

It is a fake. Stop defending your scum buddy. Why the heck would CKD make his bah post before he flipped scum/town?

Gut says curiouskarmadog and Kmd are both scum. Probably different teams.

*claps* Somebody's been paying attention.

SpyreX is going to be flabbergasted. Kmd is Cerulean, curiouskarmadog and Faraday are Vermillion. I think.

ooh, close. I think I'd switch Faraday with SpyreX.

So, can we lynch curiouskarmadog now?

Nah. I'd rather lynch Cerulean.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedestjr, what do you think of the Lowell flip?

Doesn't surprise me at all. After re-reading the first 50 pages of the thread again, it was obvious to me that he was town. I would have rather lynched Kmd, CKD, or SpyreX.


*Dislike Serial's case on Faraday. None of the points are strong enough. If I were Faraday, I could very easily defend myself against it I think.

I am confused how Lowell being town would make you more worried about me. Elaborate.

It strengthened my town read on you. I don't see how that could have made you look scummier.

I think it's probably a good move at this point to have a mass roleclaim so that we can get all info on the table for best decision making.

Hmm... That's an interesting suggestion that I hadn't considered yet. But I think we better do it now, then later.

I'm still incredibly suspicious that curiouskarmadog is lying about his role claim. However both mafia groups targetted a mason, which means that he might be telling the truth. If he was a member of the mafia, then there was a 50% chance that both masons could have died and he'd be exposed.

I disagree with this. There is no way that CKD would have known that the Ceruleans were going to target a mason too. I also don't recall CKD confirming that he was going to hide behind a mason. There is also the possibility that CKD and SpyreX didn't think this through.

I can't picture the last Cerulean risking that, so if curiouskarmadog is scum, then he's Vermillion.

This connects to my theory earlier. Does anybody notice all these connections to my theory?

I'm cool with a massclaim. I suggest Wicked picks the order, given he's confirmed, or we popcorn.

This is the order that I'd pick it;

KMD, SpyreX, Faraday, SerialClergyman, Xyl

But I'm fine with popcorn too.

Meta'ing me against twilight is going to be a poor idea.

Elaborate please.

[Wickedestjr]

Alright. I'm not done catching up, but almost everybody supports a mass claim. If I pick the order, then I give that order in my last post, but if we are doing popcorn, then I pick Kmd first.

Vote: Kmd the Cerulean Scum

And one more thing, I would appreciate it if I could get some more feedback on my previous theory about Kmd being Cerulean and SpyreX and CKD being Vermillion together, because everybody ignored it.

[Wickedestjr]

Why do you want to know what night I hid so badly?

how is it protown to know what night I hid?

We want to see the breadcrumb. I don't think Xyl cares what night you hid, but he and now I want to see the breadcrumb. You refusing to show us could be due to two things;

1: You don't have a breadcrumb.

2: You think you'll appear more townie if you refuse to tell us.

Oh and also, why would your breadcrumb tell us what nights you used your ability?

also the crumb is fucking obvious..

Then tell us.

SpyreX, don't be a moron and don't claim out of order.

Hmm... This statement is kind of odd considering that SpyreX already claimed and it was too late to warn him, but I can't put my finger on it right now. Possibly giving him another chance to claim? Hmm... interesting.

You forgot ckd in your claim order. Anyways, popcorn.

That's cuz he claimed already. But I see that he is willing to tell us about his breadcrumb if we have him claim again, so I'd have him claim after Kmd.

Actually, there's one event I will comment on - Wicked, why are you voting for KMD if you think he's Cerulean? If there are 3 Vermillon then we will actually lose if we lynch Cerulean today. I personally don't think it's likely, but to be safe I think we should definitely be aiming Vermillon today.

Hmm... I see what you mean. For some reason I had this idea in my head that a Cerulean lynch was better because it would narrow the nightkills down to 1, hence giving us more time to lynch Vermillions. I also didn't think that there were three Vermillions left. CKD and SpyreX are probably Vermillion, but I think CKD is more likely, so I'll support a CKD lynch or a Kmd.

Unvote

I'll think about this for a few minutes...

Okay, you're right, a Vermillion lynch is better.

Vote: CKD

*waits for Faraday to claim*

[Wickedestjr]

lol, again, where did I refuse to claim?

I havent claimed yet (the mass claim today I will go into detail)...it hasnt gotten to me yet. If you werent confirmed, I would totally peg you for scum. Wick you do know how a mass claim works right?

Wick, I have said NUMEROUS times today that I would claim fully, though, and when you see the claim, you will understand WHY it was a bad idea for me to claim fully.

Fine. But that is not the only thing that has raised my suspicions. These are the other reasons;

1. It was pretty obvious to me that your false BAH post was for the main purpose of making you look more pro-town.

2. Your claim doesn't match that of a normal hider. It looks more like a mix of a hider and a commuter. This is also a large normal, so I kind of doubt that role would be in this game.

3. Hiding behind Kublai Khan would have never been a good idea. Think about it. Night 1, Kublai Khan had raised many suspicions. A vig might have targetted him. Night 2, we had just discovered that Mastin was scum, so it became obvious that KK wasn't Vermillion or Cerulean. All the nights after this one, it was obvious he wasn't scum, so he was a big candidate for a scum nk.

4. Process of elimination.


Oh and you saying "If you weren't confirmed town I would vote you" is really bothering/annoying me. It seems like your trying to frighten me off your bandwagon or something.

Wick two posts before you posts I said I would claim...why are you ignoring that?

I don't see why you don't just tell us now. It seems like you are using all the time you have to come up with the perfect explanation. I hope that when you claim it explains that though.

Still waiting for Faraday to claim, but in the meantime my answer to Wicked's question about scum metas has now changed with the completion of one of my games, you can find it

Thanks, and congrats on the win btw. Now on to my follow-up question: If you were playing a game as scum do you usually try to ignore your scum partners, or do you bus them. And if you are bussing them, then how much do you do it?

[Wickedestjr]

Serial Clergyman, last question, before I take a look at your other game. Assuming that you are town in this game, do you think you would have bussed your partners if you were scum? When I say that, I mean Mastin and ZazieR.


Are people just ignoring my posts now? Because I have asked for scum lists from everybody and I only got one from Kmd. I would like some scum lists from the townies in this game. I would also like if some people would give their opinions on my theory on who the scum are, because I was serious about that.

[Wickedestjr]

WOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!!!!

This was a really amazing game, and the scum played a very good game.

Here's our quick topic (I think hayker would be fine with it);


Mason Quicktopic


First of all, Mastin's roleblocker claim was a good way of keeping himself in the game another day. CKD's desire to lynch Mastin day 1, had me completely fooled, and I was positive that he was Vermillion. ZazieR and Kublai Khan did an impressive job of distancing themselves. Theire the last scum pair that I would of considered. Kublai Khan's miller claim was very lucky, but it was amazing how he pulled it off. He deserves a scummy for best performance with a fake miller claim. I think it is safe to say that Faraday had everybody fooled for the first two days of the game. His play looked very pro-town. Last but definitely not least is SerialClergyman. Apart from KK, he's one of the other players I was positive was town. I think I was a little quick to assume he wasn't Vermillion.

Thanks iamausername for an awesome game!!! This is probably been the funnest game I have played on the site. I am really glad that I got to play the whole game.

[Wickedestjr]

CKD, are you fine with letting us see the quick topic?

[Wickedestjr]

Johnny Rotten made the most obvious breadcrumb of his N0 result ever, and I have no idea how nobody has spotted it.

Where?

[Wickedestjr]

I agree that the game was balanced, but I don't think we lynched the right people days 3 and 4.

Lol 0-for.

Blame the Vermillions for playing an awesome game.

[Wickedestjr]

they didnt blame THAT good of a game.

really their win was a result of my claim.

Nah, they would've won anyway.