Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Benmage]

Vote

BM

[Benmage]

Alrighty then, here’s my catchup post from whats been posted thus far. It’s done chronologically so if the start of my posts feelings shift by the end, so be it.

However, the tinfoil says that Mastin as scum could go the brazen I wouldn't do this as scum because it would be awesome.

It is an interesting attempt Mastin could be employing here as scum. Especially as he so justly declared how he would have acted. But if he really was scum, wouldn’t acting the way one would expect you to act be illogical while acting in contrast to the predictable action be most rational.

Im glad... but people should still vote eventually... For a reason... but vote. We can not afford lurkers (active or not) or inactivity...

QFT, beautiful. I despise all lurkers.

With this having no power roles the basic idea is going to be a lobotomization from the scum.

Meaning only those who have played with hasdgfas could've suggested the kill, hence, narrows down our suspects. It most likely would be an experienced player, like BM.

Hence, BM is scum.
And, no, we're not waiting 'til Day Three to make sure.

Besides that, why is the kill of hascow so special?

Because, why would hascow be killed? There has to be a reason. And that reason means that the person who killed hascow probably knew him.

More common scum kills would be people like Sensfan, Kai, myself, maybe Alex, etc.

Not hascow.

Only becouse some didn't play with her and wouldn't kill becouse of that?

Him. Him.
And, yes. They wouldn't kill hascow because of that.

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

Jammer stated there are 4 scum as a fact

Wrong, he said “believable truth”, twisting of words is scummy.

I think the second explanation is far likelier, and hence, my vote. Unless jammer has another townie-based reason to so readily assume 4 scum.

Yeah I do. In most games of 9 (newbie setups) we have a 7-2 ratio. In many mini normals we have 12 with a 9-3 ratio. From the newbie setup to the mini normal we gained 3 players, 2 town and 1 scum. Now in this game we have no powerroles and a free NK, N0 for scum. So even though we started with 16 players we really only get to play with 15. That’s a 3 person increase from mini normals. Using the same town-scum ratio we can assume an addition 2 townies and 1 scum. That 16th player is probably town to be used as slaughter ….So assuming 4 scum in this game seems most logical. I could understand only 3 scum since we have no powerroles, but 5 seems way to many.

Could you say what sounds like a reasenable amount, if that is incorrect.

But the reasonableness of the assumption is just a secondary point. Where you messed up, jammer, is in revealing that you KNOW how many scum there are - you are not guessing. Scum know how many scum there are, and town don't. This is simple.

Geeze, I don’t think he did. He used Alex’s interpretation anyways and you’re getting hung up on semantics where you misquote to begin with, but he states it as believable truth.
Interpret this:
Fact: There are 3 scum in this game.
Fact: There are 4 scum in this game.
Fact: There are 5 scum in this game.

I said it is reasonable. I did not proceed as if it was fact, as you did. I know you understand the difference.

He said believable, stop misquoting. I don’t see the biggest difference between ‘reasonable’ and ‘believable’.

I don't think jammer slipped up, especially given that there probably aren't 4 scum.

3 does seem to be making more sense.

@Post 45, Zach…no need to quote the whole thing, but awesome and well done.

Can you give your reasoning as to why "3 scum tends to make a lot more sense in this type of setup?"

Didn’t he state this, or others at least. The answer seems so glaringly obvious why ask such a stupid question. Didn’t you even provide the mathematics behind it suggesting 3 scum with no powerroles would be most balanced…
Well looks like post 52 answers it anyways.

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's becoming quite apparent that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

QFT.

Benmage's vote not counted, because I don't know who he's trying to vote for.

It was a joke, because of your other post specifically stating not to do it. I’m sorry. Also “vote” wasn’t even bolded, that was to make it not count.

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

Seriously he could still be scum saying 4 when there may even be 2. Who knows, writing him off as town for agreeing with anothers scum numbers seems scummy.

Vote: Ben

Clearly a wannabe mage.

Oh this game is going to be fun.

Wheras policy-lynching GIEFF for being too awesome... that might be doable...

*Stare*

Vote Mastin

[Benmage]

t;]Vote

BM

self vote? lol

Joke vote

[Benmage]

Wrong, he said “believable truth”, twisting of words is scummy.

Look at the chronology. I twisted no words.

Oh reh-heally.

Jul 9, 2009 2:15 a.m. Post 27:

jammer, how many scum do you think there are in this game? Why?

Jul 09, 2009 2:28 am Post 29:

Scum amount according to alexhans. He said 4 and I took it as a believable truth. I think 4 would fit well with 16 players.

Let’s review. The first post after your question he says:

believable truth

Jul 09, 2009 2:43 am Post 32:

Jammer stated there are 4 scum as a fact, not as a guess, and without any reasoning presented. I don't know why a townie would just take a wild guess another player made as "believable truth."

Now, I don’t know how you read..right to left, left to right, down up, top bottom w/e. But I read right to left top to bottom.
Let’s review.

Jammer stated there are 4 scum as a

fact

Where??
Yada yada yada

"believable truth."

Back to the beginning:

Look at the chronology. I twisted no words.

Chronologically you stated he said it as Fact. He never uses the word fact. Hence you twisted words.

[Benmage]

You'd like that wouldnt you? Tell me, are you just going to take everything Mastin says at face value, or are you actually intending to pretend you want to scumhunt for yourself?

I dont have any idea why you have quoted those 2 posts otherwise.

BM

Clearly mastin has said much more than those two posts. My point is in following his and others points regarding those who have a history with this first kill. The conclusion of that evidence indicates you have the most history.

Now obviously I didn’t vote you. I don’t think this is the most compelling scum find. I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

[Benmage]

What does staring at me have to do with voting Mastin ??

That was just an extra extension in the quote…unnecessary my mistake. I was throwing the “stare” at you trying to policy lynch Gieff for his “awesomeness” it just made me chuckle to myself and think of school yard kids going “damn, go suck his dick or something”

And you say I am the one getting bogged down in semantics?

Chronologically you stated he said it as Fact. He never uses the word fact. Hence you twisted words.

Oh totally, lol.. I went off I’m sitting bored at a computer right now.

Do you or do you not feel that jammer assumed there were four scum? Regardless of whether you want to call it truth or a fact, the point is that jammer assumed there were 4 scum, and THAT is what I found scummy - the unquestioning assumption.

I have explained why I found that scummy at the time, and I have explained why I no longer find it as scummy. If there is something you would like me to clarify, I would be happy to. But I did not misrepresent anything jammer said in order to inform my vote.

Not at all, it’s fine. In my chronological catch-up post I was just disagreeing with your point of view. No clarification needed.

[Benmage]

V/La till sunday.

[Benmage]

I'm back, skimmed it, but need to read from basically the top of page 5, gimmie a day or so to catchup.

Oh and I'm totally the cop in this game of vanillas only.

[Benmage]

Right so here is from the bottom of page 4 actually, me chronologically catching up in this game. Sorry for the delay, was very busy RL.

Vote

BM

Why?

It was a joke…I play this game for fun?...

]

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's becoming quite apparent that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

QFT.

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

Seriously he could still be scum saying 4 when there may even be 2. Who knows, writing him off as town for agreeing with anothers scum numbers seems scummy.

Doesn't this 2 quotes contradict themselves? In the SAME post?

Not at all. I was saying that Zach’s post makes jammer look less scummy(not even not scummy, just “less” scummy), but that doesn’t mean we assume he’s now town. Which is what jammer pointed out, and I agreed.

Vote Mastin

OK... WTF? BENMAGE??? YOU ARE CLEARLY JUMPING ON MASTIN WAGGON... IT'S REALLY SCUMMY YES! IM FURIOUS (HENCE THE CAPS). I LIKE MASTIN. HE HELPS TOWN. HE MAY BE SCUM BUT THERE ARE NO LEADS THAT INDICATE THAT RIGHT NOW.

Uhh, okay wow…uhm hop of his dick. The caps adds to anything? …nope… He may be scum, you may not believe anything indicates it, but I do. 3-4 votes in this large game isn’t a dreadful wagon, so chill.

]
Now obviously I didn’t vote you. I don’t think this is the most compelling scum find. I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof. It doesn't rule him out. He provided a way to start the game.

I know it doesn’t rule him out. Thank you. He’s trying to rule himself out. I disagree and find that to be scummy. Maybe you should’ve read that before the NuTsOCaPs.

Alexhans, why so upset about Mastin being bandwagoned?

I see no reasons for voting him but atacking the first one who makes something to move the game. He is acting as he usually does and his auto-clearing doesn't seem scummy to me. Just mastin's personality. I should check a game where he is scum to have more information but from what I have now he is not scummy.

I'm not liking a fast waggon on an active, pro town player...

We should worry about those who DONT post or post null opinions and keep discussing everything...

Acting the same way one does when town doesn’t clear them.

Dude... I'm not saying he is a townie... I just HATE his waggon right now when there's still players who haven't posted and I don't really get the reasons behind the Mastin votes.

Nowhere near being lynch, relax.

Pro town doesnt mean he is not mafia... look at VP Baltar, for instance. He always acts pro town. You have to look his actions very closely to see hidden motives.

He does…

Long posts do not mean pro-town. I don't think Mastin has acted pro-town at all.

QFT…although it’s much more appreciated that one-liners. Also I personally don’t like Mastin’s spam one-line quotes + one-line comments.
Also @post 107 by GIEFF I agree with his comments regarding Mastin trying to declare his “townness” and dislike it.

You suggest we ignore the kill?

Yes, or come with something good. You say not to disregard the kill, yet I've seen nothing usefull on that topic coming from you.

This contradicts itself jammer, no? You answer should be. “No, but nothing useful has come from it yet” or something along those lines. To note, I don’t think the kill should be ignored.

also, in addition to Mastin's following post I would tell you to look at Sensfan's death on n0 in Mafia 91. Not random.

Mastin has a very good point when he says that n0 kills are very probably not random.

If you catched mafia using meta with the kill back then, I can follow. Till I hear you did that, I call the idea stupid.

I don’t know Sensfan, so I couldn’t tell you that is death N0 in mafia 91, wasn’t random. I was in that game and this N0 focus on kills wasn’t really brought up. The only thing noted was that Empking was probably not random because people dislike playing with him.

Unvote, Vote: Alex Hans

Serious vote. Serious wagon required.

Hmm…why…

Are you and Mastin a couple irl?
Maybe if you quit whinging and listen to the points against Mastin with an open mind, you might fare better in the game.

Lol, but then also a good point.

Agreed. Ironically, Alex mentions M91 as solid reason for NK speculation, noting that Sens’ N0 death wasn’t random. Except the other scum group, which I was a part of, removed everyone we played with from the player list and then randomly killed from that list N0 as to throw off townies trying to do this exact kind of speculation.

WOW*****can we lynch Mastin yet?

2:10 is considered theoretically balanced, though Town has never won.

Wait...really? Then why is one of the newbie setups a 2:7??

I vote for who I think is Scum. That's it, that's all.
If you have any doubts about my ability to read with my gut, ask GIEFF.

You'll never get scum lynched that way.
You have to convince the rest of us!

Agree.

OK WTF BATTLE MAGE???? YOU ARE CLEARLY STARTING A BENMAGE WAGGON.

This is a joke right….and fyi I fully endorse the battle mage wagon.

I'm not calling anyone town until I'm REALLY convinced they are town... and event then... I will still watch them closely.

Then why are you so sure Mastin is town that you freak out when he gets 4 votes? That is inconsistent.

That’s an interesting find.

Trying to appear pro-town, whilst not actually saying anything.

BM... you're really starting to annoy me and you're really starting to look like trying to fake a case instead of actually scumhunting.

I think you’re both adding a lot of fluff, but I don’t see his case on you as a strong one.

That's why I wont be hard set on Mastin town.

Wow, fooled me.

Posting helps --- That's why lurking is so detrimental to town and no one should do it if they're town so scum cant hide in a lurker pool.

QFT

Active and great player, as he may be, it doesnt mean he is town

I know

, or worth keeping around.

I wouldn't be so sure about that as I've explained before.

Nor does it make people who are suspicious of him, automatically scummy.

No, BUT, I think one may always sense if a vote is forced or not. Benmage's vote, for example, sounded forced to me.

First this whole ‘big post’ seems like alex took some chill pills and may be trying to relax off the MASTIN is confirmed town mentality, which is an odd quick switch. Also my vote forced? What the fuck does that even mean. Are you suggesting that the 3-4 of us on Mastin all plotted to vote quickly and wagon him. No scum would ever do that. Don’t be an idiot.

Alright need to get some food. Currently caught up to post 127.
Top of page 6.

[Benmage]

oh ya, let me

unvote

untill i can catchup, only seems fair.

[Benmage]

Still need to catchup, just skimming a bit...

Wait...really? Then why is one of the newbie setups a 2:7??

I think he was refering to a 2:10 setup without powerroles.

I fully endorse the battle mage wagon.

I was reading you as being more critical of being alex. Was I wrong about this?

Isn't there a newbie 2:7 setup with no powerroles as one of the 4 options..

The battle mage wagon statement was an obvious joke...sometimes sarcasm is difficult to portray through words.

[Benmage]

Yes, there is.

What the hell does that have to do with the face an Open 2:10 game is slightly pro-Scum?

I just found it odd, that a 2:10 game never wins. Wouldn't a 2:7 (no PR's) be even harder... Thats all, I was just inquiring.

[Benmage]

Okay, back to my chronological catchup from post 127 and onward.

I have a question for you, alex. You attacked Benmage for jumping on the Mastin wagon, without a good reason, right? Yet at that time (Post 94), Benmage had already given a reason for his vote, in Post 90. But I myself didn't give any explanation whatsoever about my Mastin vote until Post 107. You now claim that you think the Mastin wagon has little reasoning behind it, but why did you focus on attacking Benmage (who had given reasoning for his vote at the time), and yet ignore me (who had not)?

Nice point.

1) NK-speculation distracts

Too much NK speculation in my opinion distracts. Just like to much game setup speculation distracts. But I like to take a personal note of both and value a little commentary.

Can we stop now about the discussion with meta N0 kills?
You talked about how it isn't useless. But don't who the suspects would be according to it.

jammer... there's scum in this game that KNOW the actual motives behind the kill... listening to speculations COULD help us at some point. There's always the chance of a slip or a scummy statement.

Agree.

Independent of your feelings about alex, do YOU think Mastin is town, Battle Mage? Your previous posts seem to indicate otherwise, yet you claim alex KNOWS Mastin is town.

Mastin's behaviour was vaguely scummy, but given how much he posts, and his general meta, not really lynch-worthy. Alex's reaction to him was far scummier, and doesnt make sense with them as scumbuddies. Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

This is an interesting point that I sort of agree with. Alex could be scum, but if he wanted to push Mastin’s townness for wifom later purposes, he kind of overreacted with it. Something I’d doubt a scum would commit so heavily to. However if he is scum, and acted this way, kudos to him.

At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

At the very least… that seems quick and unnecessary.

Again, you consistently assume he is town. If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

Ah...hmm. Could be Mason, could be something else. Who knows, a cop claim now is worthless. Mastin isn’t in danger of being lynched. Plus I’d rather see a cop come out when they can at the very least suicide a scum.

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution, but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me. What annoys me is, i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

Ehh, I was more annoyed at Gieff’s endless tangent here.

I've played with Hascow before and he was not a very active scum player... at least in that game. Maybe it was because the town had 80 % of lynchable material (Empking, Zwets, Dejkha, Wall-e and Hewitt). Anyway... If I had to kill... knowing there were no protections whatsoever... I would've killed... sensfan? Mastin?

someone random that I don't know?

Probably I wouldn't have had a voice in a scumteam....

Lmfao.

Confirm Vote: Alex

You cant seriously try and tell me that you believe this Mastin bullcrap is consistent with your own confession-that you might have killed someone random who you dont know? xD

This is the most successful point I’ve seen you raise against alex, through all the mass of fluff and bantering.

When i disagree with you, just back down, and we'll get on fine. *hugs*

Lol…ya noted.

Ok. In terms of votes, what Mastin achieved, instead of a random selection of reasonless votes, was a wagon on himself. Now, if you dont think that wagon was legit, then effectively, we are no better off than we would have been with the random stage. If you believe Mastin has destroyed the RVS, then you are, by definition, acknowledging that the wagon on Mastin is valuable, and most probably, that he is scum.

Ooo another nice point.

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Oh ya duh..confusing games I’m in. So than the point of Alex Knowing Mastin as town could be because he’s scum.

re-

Vote : Gieff

For trying to shove a crapcase down my throat just cuz I like to be nice.
And stop calling me 'abrasive'!
I am sweet as a summer day!

I thought the rvs was over…

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play? In fact, the optimal play would be to subtly hint at him being a cop, and see if he breadcrumbs back. I've done that before, quite recently, in a game that is still ongoing, but might be finished soon.

It is scummy becouse mafia likes to know PR's for obvious reasons.

But..we’re all VT’s in the game.

The pressure on BM is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

It had a >0% chance of helping the Town, by outing a Scum
It had a 0% chance of hurting the Town

How the fuck can you call that scummy?

Agree.

Ok... I sized this for emphasis...

I didn’t read it because of the size.

Post 174…That was painfully filled with fluff. Disclaimer of fluff at top next time please.

So, to sum up, you claim that your case makes you SO sure that alex is scum that you are willing to make a complete 180 on Mastin, and say that he is town, with a LOT of confidence. Yet as I think I have shown here, many of the points you brought up are not scummy - they are just observations. And as I also think I have shown here, you

LIED

when you said your vote for Mastin was random, to allow yourself to perform the mental gymnastics required to force this case on alex.

Most of his argument seemed like bantering nitpicky fluff. There were a few decent points. I think he was suggesting one point of view wherein Alex could be scum. If that was the case in this specific point of view Mastin would almost certaintly be town. He continues to express that in this perspective if Alex flips town, all assumptions of Mastin would be dropped and we’d return to our previous positions on Mastin before analyzing this Alex point of view. (Which were scummy opinions of Mastin)

1. Umm, first of all, the fact that a high priority player wasn't killed increases the likelyhood that some or all of the priority kills are actually the scum.

Interesting.

Benmage is being Benmage

Huzzah, Kairyuu is growing on me. And I’m going to force myself to (grow on him too?) wow that’s sounds odd.

To note, I’m skimming most of this camn gieff banter. I thought it initiated as a semi-joke vote from camn with a weak previous game analysis by gieff, but is being dragged and dragged and dragged on in my opinion a relatively null case.

Spyrex has 2 posts, and no votes or FOSs.

Just for reference, I think Spyrex is travelling right now so I would guess that his posting would be sporadic until he gets back.

This is true, I think he’ll be back the 20th.

Running to lunch at post 200 top of page 9, will finish catchup real soon.

[Benmage]

town vs. town on them.

Yeahhhh maybe.

The thing is, if you dont think Alex's panicked defence of Mastin was scummy, then i wouldnt expect you to agree with the case on him, because that is pretty much the cornerstone of it.

Agree.

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

Useless.

Battle Mage, why did you unvote Alex?

I'm going crazy trying to read your text walls of reasoning for voting him in he first place.

They’re littered with nothingness.

#189: So Kai? Not one suspicion?

Has Kai passed post 93?

Acting the same way one does when town doesn’t clear them.

??? explain...

Seriously…I hate spelling out the obvious. If you’re known for acting a certain way when being town, isn’t it logical that when you are finally scum to act the way you’re known for acting when town…zzzz

motives for a mastin vote from Benmage:

a) Mastin may be scum and may be acting ilogically
b) He's going after Battle Mage.
c) ...
d) there's not even a c) man... do you expect a d)?

c) I don’t like his shoes
d) watermelon
zzzzmorenothingnesswastingmytimereading

BM acted "certain" that I was scum in all of his posts...

No, that might be an overall theme of his posts but there are certain aspects as to why he thinks you could be scum. I merely picked up and interpreted one I found intriguing.

@alexhans,
I'm thinking the wall-post war gets more personal then actual bringin points forward.
Is BM your main suspect?

Ding ding ding, they’re a total distraction to this game. Is anyone really reading every line/comment.

@VP, DDD, Cephrir What do you think about Alex defending Mastin?

I think his "NuTsOcApS", as benmage put it, was overboard and weird, boardering on being scummy.

My thoughts exactly.

Well caught up and to surmise I still find Mastin most scummy. His new mia-ness is even more peculiar.

Vote Mastin

[Benmage]

Regardless, point is he's actively lurking here.

[Benmage]

I note both.

[Benmage]

Vote Cephrir

What was the reasoning behind this? What do you feel about Mastin?

Kmd - if you are vanilla town, claim NOW.

Anybody against a kmd claim, please speak up now.

W.t.f? Why race this push? What will the claim accomplish? Or what are you looking to gain from it?

Considering 3 people are asking, yes, I'm vanilla.

Lol wtf just happened…this was the weirdest bunch of events. We are all vanilla, except for scum…Everyone will claim VT…*sigh*

Mmk. You've passed the test.

Apparently you didn't notice, but this is a Mountainous setup. If you had claimed a power role you would be confirmed scum. That you didn't means that you were either not willing to risk a counterclaim, or that you are actually town.

OK thanks kmd - that was a "trap" (of Battle Mage's devising). This is a mountainous setup, so any non-vanilla claim is an insta-lynch. I would have felt dirty if it worked.

Thanks for the backup Kai and camn.

Oh ya we’ll be catching scum real quick with these set-ups.

Hi. Who is scum?

Mastin, alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's at least one, if not two or all three, in there.

The Mastin wagon appears to be biggest, so

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

.

---

All you people asking me to write novels about why I suspect who I do, its not going to happen. This is how I play, and I'm right a whole lot more often than I was when I wrote novels.

Besides, I think I've made it fairly obvious why I suspect all 4 of the above. If you really have no idea, read the thread. If you still have no idea, and you've done what you feel is enough looking into the matter on your own, then you can ask me.

Lol that’s fine and all. But listing 4 people and saying “one of these 4 is scum” is so arbitrary. I guarantee I could run a randomizer on the people in this game, totally indiscriminate, pull out four people and have just as much confidence in claiming “one of these 4 is scum”.

Did you follow the process outlined above?

Read the thread, process…

I've read your posts. They are largely opportunistic, which is the issue. If you fail to mention Mastin in any way other than your vote post based on others' reasoning, you're just being a sheep.

No, he’s going with his “gut” cause that’s how he plays!
(stopping at post 276, need to read rest of page 12…this game isn’t flying, but has a lot of wall posts)

[Benmage]

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage[/size]

Oh wow, you are good at this game...what was i thinking.

[Benmage]

I support ANY lurkerlynch.

YET. Unlike you, you never jumped on lurkers like broomhead and don't vote for them now.

True

Using other people's arguments to suspect people...

Being so unhelpful you're not a good asset to town. You could hide forever behind this crappy attitude. Not willing to let that happen.

Vote SensFan

That’s a weakass vote. Sounds like a policy-like vote.

And Sensfan, I don't care how amazing you think you are. What you are doing is completely useless to the town, and completely scummy. You KNOW this, so what you are doing is pretty much just trolling. You are perfectly capable of telling your reasons, but you refuse to, because you want to keep your image.

Please play the game.

This is useless to a person who chooses not. Although I do agree with you that it is frustrating and I’m all for policy lynching useless players… It is like asking Zwet to post more than one-line, or do anything good for that matter..Null. With Sensfan he hopefully reads both sides of an argument, and agrees with a position he finds strongest in finding scum. I don’t have a history with him so I couldn’t tell you if he at least votes well or not.

'hop off Mastin's dick'.

NutSoCaps

I like that I have inspired some interesting articulation.

The one good point about him may be that he seemed to be trying to autoclear himself.

Yes his self-aggrandizement was quite scummy.

I'm not going to add even more noise to this thread by making ridiculously long cases, we have enough of that already. Instead, I'll make sure I'm on record as to who and when I suspect people, and why I suspect them. That way, there's a clear record of my suspicions, and a track record of my votes and such.

In future days, when there is less noise, it will be more appropriate for everyone who is alive to be making large cases.

This is actually a nice post/point of view. I hope the “why vote” isn’t cause of the “gut”.

The only time I can remember ever getting scum Day 1 is on lurkerlynches... This is my least favorite part of every game.

I agree Day One can be brutal, and more often than note a townie gets lynched. That is why we policy lynch/lurker lynch day one huzzah!

W.t.f? Why race this push? What will the claim accomplish? Or what are you looking to gain from it?

Oh God! You've got to be kidding me...

THIS GAME IS VANILLA AND SCUM ONLY! LETS STOP MAKING BULL POSTS AROUND IT. WE ALL KNOW THE SETUP

I’m confused. Are you agreeing with me? Because I’m the one who said everyone will just claim VT and the rush rush rush was foolish. I saw the trap…but honestly..lol

No, he’s going with his “gut” cause that’s how he plays!

Are you confortable with letting people just say gut or QFT for a case?

That part was a sarcastic mockery if you didn’t get it. I obviously don’t think going with ones gut is a sufficient case and I’ve never run into a simply QFT/QFT/QFT case…but I’m sure in that scenario I’d want a bit more elaboration.

And you're not investigating anyone at all Alex, you're suspecting people for being suspicious of Mastin for perfectly valid reasons, and spending more energy defending him than would be considered normal for a player who isn't supposed to know anything more than their own alignment.

QFT

Though given what I know about your feelings on lurking, I do find it VERY strange that you are defending Mastin right now.

Agree, Mastins excuse is a weak one imo.

So, these past few pages give me something to work with. I now know that I DON'T like alex or GIEFF. I DO like Sens, Camn, and Benmage.

No WAY KMD!! You have to assume I’m scum….am I growing on you??

Get it out of your system... I'm not defending Mastin... (Not entirely, at least ) I'm still in awe about the way in wich his waggon formed.... Night Speculation is not wrong IMO but no one jumped at me for saying it.

It was also the way he speculated it. Disregarding himself.

[Benmage]

Oh an I'm uptodate. I make those wall posts to sorta follow through and cathup, although it usually isn't a big play style of mine. I keep falling behind in this game .

[Benmage]

So looking at the game there are some people who aren’t nearly as vocal as others. Namely Cephrir and DDD.
I’d like to hear more from Cephrir as he has four posts all game. The first and second ones, those with some substance aren’t that bad. Overrall a null tell on him leaning town/scum cause there isn’t enough information. I do like this post:

Has wouldn't be my choice with players I know; you can auto-clear me from picking the kill, as I would definitely try to lead as mafia and would have to be overridden by someone who I respect highly as a player and recognize the skill of to not nk another pro-town player.

Now I'm not sure whether this was entirely serious or not, but if it was... yeah. Incidentally, it's also suspicious if it was entirely serious.

He was being serious. Him trying to rule himself out is indeed, suspicious.

DDD has a few more posts on the table than Cephrir, nothing to substantial. Again I think he posts generally well opinionated posts but isn’t active enough or strong enough to get a read-up him being town or scum.

I do like that he has been consistent:
Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:51 pm

I'd also be comfortable voting Mastin for pushing mediocre theories early and claiming they cleared him and then going MIA as well.

Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:24 pm

I noticed that as well, if nothing else it establishes that NK speculation is something scum-Mastin is willing to use to push his agenda. Couple that with VPB's meta-find and I'm ready to push Mastin above Cephrir on my scum list.

Unvote; Vote: Mastin

Basically I want more from these fellahs, less from others. A post by Battle wannabemage seems overdue and well Mastin zzZzzZ

[Benmage]

I'm nowhere near caughtup in this game. I swear everytime I goto bed and come back there is atleast 2+ pages added on.

I'm dissapoint in Camn...he was really going places...siiiiiikkeee

And

UNVOTE

Fielding this torrent of nonsense has totally derailed my plans with Benmage. I'll come back to him someday. Hopefully.

[Benmage]

I don't know why both Sensfan and BM claim they see nothing scummy about camn.

• She has contributed little to no scumhunting.
  
• She has shown she is more concerned about how she is viewed by the town than about catching scum.
  
• She strongly over-reacted to my investigation of her meta, and OMGUS-voted me. Once again, this was NOT about scumhunting, but about protecting how she is viewed by the town, as evidenced by how weakly she pursued it.

She just seems like a poor player to me.

These posts establish an attempt by Mastin to both clear himself based on the nightkill and gather scum suspects based on the nightkill.

And I never lie about matters such as that, even as scum.
I'm an honorable player.
The proof is in my recent anti-town games.

I'd *never* Night-kill a person like Hascow with *far* better targets around.

The

*only* possible

way is if I was overrided by a player that I hold huge respect for. I gave, in my list before, who those people are.

And even then, it's doubtful that I'd allow them to.

Also, gathering suspects based off of the unusual night-kill--->Hugely pro-town. At that stage in the game, it is *definitely* the best possible way to find scum. Later on, scum tells become important, sure.

I don’t think this is a valid statement. “Oh I’m an honorable player” “I don’t lie” etc etc..fluff we can’t believe, sorry but this is exactly what I’d expect scum to say.

I know if I was scum, Camn wouldn't be living past today.

This seems genius.

@ Alex... I theorize that OMGUS is, if anything, a town-tell. Townies get mad when people call them scummy. Scum get scared.

Which means your OMGUS-vote of me is yet another example of you behaving in a way you think will make you seem to be town rather than behaving in a way that is likely to catch scum.

Ooo ooo he did that to me too.

You are trying to act like you think townies act, instead of trying to catch scum.

QFT

(That's the reason

I

joined this game. )

Didn’t you just go on a tangent of you two vengefully killing eachother… O.o …

And PLEASE LYNCH ME!!!!!
PLEASE!
DO IT NOW!!!

I want to die right now just so the world will see how flawed your so-called "scumhunting" is.

Anyone else willing to give the lady what she wants?

Sensfan, can you make your point in non-analogy form? That makes no sense to me.

*You accuse her of OMGUSing you
*She denies OMGUSing you
*You reply "Well, let's not get hung up on our respective definitions of OMGUS"

Lol.

I can’t read this Gieff vs Camn/KmD conflict anymore. It rivals BM vs Alex in fluff/uselessness/and has totally derailed any direction for the day. It also makes catching up in this game less favorable than slamming ones head in to the wall. Regardless I still think a Mastin lynch is best thus far. I really wish he wasn’t only on page 3…*sigh*

[Benmage]

Ooo ooo he did that to me too.

When?

Here:

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage

[Benmage]

And you are contending that that was an OMGUS vote?

Are you suggesting otherwise?

[Benmage]

Maybe you just don't understand all the context of an "omgus" vote. it doesn't always literally mean, oh my god you suck…You mention me what…once before in the text in a null reference and than drop a post which only contains a vote. No prior/lead-up explanation. Just a vote. Period. End of story. That in my book is a quintessential example of an “omgus” vote.

[Benmage]

If you gave initial context it wouldn't have been an omgus-vote/seemed scummy/made you look like a bad player. I don't know if the wiki offers a handbook or something, but I'd suggest playing some more newbie games, they may be more fitting.

[Benmage]

Wow.

You're telling me

[Benmage]

Oh, I don't mean to be claiming I'm anything special. Just the ability to recognize shit when I see it.

[Benmage]

That is NOT what an OMGUS vote is. An OMGUS vote is a vote for somebody who has been attacking you. It's not a big deal - it is only scummy insofar as voting people for reasons OTHER than trying to catch scum can be scummy, and that it can serve as a proxy for more substantial scumhunting.

A vote with no backing is called what?

I agree, camn - our massive exchanges are very bad for the town, and a lot is falling through the cracks, and the pages and pages provide a convenient excuse for lurkers to remain lurking.

Indeed, this is going nowhere. Just adding fluff.

If you gave initial context it wouldn't have been an omgus-vote/seemed scummy/made you look like a bad player. I don't know if the wiki offers a handbook or something, but I'd suggest playing some more newbie games, they may be more fitting.

Ouch!

I know, right!?

Don’t worry Camn, ask KmD or Kairyuu, first we fight. Than it gets tiresome, we become best friends, and KmD realizes I am always town.

I can’t read this Gieff vs Camn/KmD conflict anymore. It rivals BM vs Alex in fluff/uselessness/and has totally derailed any direction for the day. It also makes catching up in this game less favorable than slamming ones head in to the wall. Regardless I still think a Mastin lynch is best thus far. I really wish he wasn’t only on page 3…*sigh*

How is it distracting? I think it has added a lot to the game.

It seemed like a ton of back and forth, in which I couldn’t even decipher the main points. Then you hopped into the madness. If you want to bullet it for me so I can grasp the main points. All I understood was what Senfans bulleted.

[Benmage]

A vote with no backing is called what?

It's not called OMGUS. Read more.

Ok...what is a vote with no backing called??

[Benmage]

Since 2:50 AM EST this morning, Mastin has 2 posts in a specific MD thread. Those posts have a total of 2778 words and 13,455 characters (excluding spaces).

So much for him being too short on time to post in this game...

String him up. Are most of going to be convinced with whatever he offers to change our votes?? Wasting time.

[Benmage]

*Stare*

Vote Mastin

Nice bandwagon. Brilliant reasoning, too. [/sarcasm]

The stare was in reference to the quote above it. Your vote was for other reasons.

[Benmage]

There are multiple reasons. They include his self-removing himself from his own NK speculation. I don’t remember if this was before or after, but I believe someone mentioned he NK speculated before as an opener as scum.

Mainly, I don’t like Mastin’s play.

So there you have it.
The scum are in, according to my study...:
Zachrulez
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Mastin
Benmage

I’m town, take your emotions elsewhere.

[Benmage]

Black, did you mean Camn, or Alex is really defensive of Mastin?

[Benmage]

I’m town, take your emotions elsewhere.

What was emotional about her comments? This just looks like a scummy off-hand comment to discredit potential points against you.

She said she's going to "ride my ass"
Didn't comment on me...yet put me in her top scum suspects. It's only because we were bantering.

[Benmage]

Yes, the self-aggrandizement + Mastin's overall play was the reason for my vote.

[Benmage]

Nobody is going to seriously lynch Camn or myself if the other turns up dead. Not unless there is more of a case.

Woah, let's not jump the gun.

[Benmage]

Nobody is going to seriously lynch Camn or myself if the other turns up dead. Not unless there is more of a case.

Woah, let's not jump the gun.

You really think that based on my statement, one of us will die and the other will definitely be lynched based on it tomorrow? I don't see it happening.

And here I thought you were starting to get me.

[Benmage]

Yes, the self-aggrandizement + Mastin's overall play was the reason for my vote.

Well.. why didn't you state those reasons at the time of your vote, then?
And would you characterize this behavior of YOURS as 'OMGUS'???

I had fallen behind with this game and was trying to catchup if I failed to mention this, or make clear my reasoning, then that was a rushed mistake on my part.

[Benmage]

(camn intentionally ignoring Geiff)

Yes, the self-aggrandizement + Mastin's overall play was the reason for my vote.

Well.. why didn't you state those reasons at the time of your vote, then?
And would you characterize this behavior of YOURS as 'OMGUS'???

I had fallen behind with this game and was trying to catchup if I failed to mention this, or make clear my reasoning, then that was a rushed mistake on my part.

There is no reason to say "if"..

I attest that you did, in post 82, Vote Mastin with no reason given whatsoever. Do you deny it?
I only press the point because you say "if"... like maybe I am reading wrong.

Yes, you must be reading wrong. The post clearly hints at it, despite myself being rushed. Also there is a post, what 4 minutes after that reiterates the cause.

Why are you strung up on the word "if". I think it fits perfectly with what occurred and with what I was trying to illustrate. Your nitpickyness is going nowhere.

[Benmage]

[
I

don't

believe voting lurkers is scummy. I do it all the time.

Me too.

[Benmage]

Now, WIFOM all you want or call shitty play or whatever - BM's move with "who is the cop"

in this setup

reeks town.[/quote]
Couldn’t disagree more. If that is what passes as a good trap…well damn.

Additionally, I'm taking off the the tinfoil regarding Mastin for now.

Wonderful. How about a why?

So, of: (Alex, Benmage, GIEFF) there is a scum.

Minus me it’s a possibility. Both have illustrated scummyness at different times. However I again refer to randomly selecting people, calling “of these peope” there is scum, and probably being correct. I.E. this is meaningless.

The vote on Cephrir is a possibility. Sensfan, do some more sexy and tell us if Ceph is active elsewhere.

[Benmage]

Wow failed at quoting.. but the first part of my last post is a Spryex quote up to "If that is what passes as a good trap...well damn" That was me.

Now, WIFOM all you want or call shitty play or whatever - BM's move with "who is the cop"

in this setup

reeks town.

Couldn’t disagree more. If that is what passes as a good trap…well damn.
Like this ^^

[Benmage]

@Gieff. That analysis proves no one save DDD and Ceph are lurking or need to be more active.

Camn. I’ve answered you already. Re-read what I’ve recently said. But here is some more info if it helps. This is getting so tiresome so I hope it ends here.

The hinting aspect to the vote:

However, the tinfoil says that Mastin as scum could go the brazen I wouldn't do this as scum because it would be awesome.

It is an interesting attempt Mastin could be employing here as scum. Especially as he so justly declared how he would have acted. But if he really was scum, wouldn’t acting the way one would expect you to act be illogical while acting in contrast to the predictable action be most rational.

If I had voted right after this statement would have I avoided all this useless spew from camn?

From a post 1:30 hours following post 82, further explaining my vote.

I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

Because before your vote, the only thing you said in reference to Mastin was:

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

Which hardly is any kind of accusation or 'context', wouldn't you agree?

In fact, maybe I am the crazy one... @GIEFF (or anyone).. what do you think about this?
Am I nuts, or is Benmage a giant hypocrite?
Am I delusional, or did Benmage HIMSELF do the very thing that HE calls "an omgus-vote/seemed scummy/made you look like a bad player"?

I even gave him the chance to say it was RVS.. but he says no.

This is incorrect. As aforementioned. Besides I’ve already stated if I failed to properly mention it, it was an error due to catching up.

Yet I didn’t deter from the vote. And continued to back it. You voted for me and never commented on it. I’m done with you being a nuisance bring something constructive to the table, and I may respond to you again.

[Benmage]

What I don't get is why you are so focused on a single vote from page 4 that has no reasoning when there are so many OTHER votes without any reasoning. To me, it looks like you are focused on Benmage because he was so rude to you, which is understandable.

Indeed. But i'm done.

[Benmage]

Its not that it was a "good trap" - its the motivation for it.

The only outcome(s) possible were: catching a retarded scum or nothing.

There is no scum machinations behind it nor, with the way he did it, an overall "ohh shit thats so town move".

Its genuine in what it is.

And if you think my list is random well that just confirms your place on it. The amount of spew (which you have been a part of) is not an accident - especially in a mountainous game.

I am not saying the list was random. I am saying I could make just as an effective list, doing it randomly.

"Catching a retard scum" exactly...not a likely scenario. Yet he's been gaining some "townpoints" for it for certain people, which I don't like.

[Benmage]

Oh wow multipostssss, lol. I meant in my last one to re-ask Spry, why you excluded Mastin from being scummy?

[Benmage]

Benmage has word sickness?

What’s that mean?

i wasnt stupid enough to think that i could get Alex lynched today

Why not? because of my "fan club", as you said?

BLasphemy!! I did not write this!! It was the other BM!

So, me, and 3 people who feel i am obvtown? Bit predictable. lol

Didn't you started voting me when I defended mastin? Since when Camn and Benmage feel you're obv town? Are they your fans? XD

Yeah…I don’t remember this obv-town statement…and as much as I’d love to knock out the other mage and claim superiority, I do think he’s town.

Camn hasn't scumhunted but tried to look town.

Didn’t she say something about not having much of a direction day one or success in day one scum hunting...forget it exactly.

This “game-stall” on Mastin really sucks. He’s posting elsewhere…wouldn’t someone whose a lead lynch candidate think that game of relative importance. He’s purposely lurking…string him up already and let’s move on.

[Benmage]

Also, why do you feel i am town?

Eh, overall game play from just reading your posts. Nothing too specific.

My votes had reasons, which I stated

both at the time of the votes, and later on.

You will blow our truce if you continue to post factually incorrect information about me.

Clearly not all of your votes.

jammer's last post is so town it makes my eyes bleed.

How, where, what..??

... so you are saying that a random list has the same value as what I see as being the classic scum-breakpoint for this game the way it is going? AWESOME.

Oh most definitely. Because you’ve put forth the “one of these is scum” statements as did SenFan. My conclusion is I could randomly select people and be just as accurate as you two.
--Thanks for answering the mastin-question.

[Benmage]

*lazy votes-where?
*suspecting people without giving reasons-where?

Vote: VP BALTHAR

Not a random vote.

I played a game with GIEFF once.
We were scum together.

He was brilliant as scum.

We should probably lynch him before endgame... regardless of anything that may happen between then and now.

(how is THAT for saying something scummy?!!?)

Segways into:

in fact...

unvote
Vote :GIEFF

Look at me .. 3rd vote on the wagon!
oops.. nope. 2nd vote. Darn.

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage

And

UNVOTE

Fielding this torrent of nonsense has totally derailed my plans with Benmage. I'll come back to him someday. Hopefully.

Well, show me how it's done, then, BIG GUY!
I will proxy my vote to you for the rest of the day. Sonce you are so awesome, your vote SHOULD count for double, right?!

Lets see how EPIC of a player you really are!

VOTE: MASTIN

Worst voter this game?

[Benmage]

Ah. Maybe I see you are responding to KMD?

If you look deeper, you will find I did indeed give reasons for each of my votes.... eventually.

Yes I was responding to KmD. The votes are lazy in that they often don’t initially give reasoning. When/if they do, the reasoning in my opinion is rather weak.

Saying not a random vote when voting VP, is meaningless.

Your first vote on Gieff, is because he was too good as scum in a previous game….seriously…

You do “confirm” the vote on Gieff later. Which is good, but in my opinion that confirmation vote had weak reasoning in itself, but I left that out because it didn’t really relate to what I was pointing out for KmD.

You than vote for me for Zero (stated) reason. You unvote after a considerable amount of time without bothering to comment on the vote to begin with.

Now your vote has sat on Mastin, for what purpose…To please me??...geeze

Seems like a pretty poor/lazy voting scheme. And I clearly am not alone in this feeling as Gieff initially pointed it out.

Your pow-wow with KmD is null. You two agreeing on points holds no weight.

[Benmage]

@BENMAGE.

How many games have you played where the first vote was not a random or jokevote?
If I was indeed 'lazy' I could easily have jokevoted ANYONE.. but instead I took the time to take a stand.
You make so little sense it is incredible.
Also.. I intentionally withheld my reasoning, for certain effect.
How is this lazy?

And what does is a "poor voting scheme"? What does that even mean?
Please show me..... I learn at the feet of the master.

Scheme wasn't the best word I suppose. Go with pattern or history.

The first vote would've been a fine RVS, but you declared that it wasn't random. You didn't make a stand, because you didn't put any thought or effort into it. You only stated it wasn't random...meaningless. Lazy in the sense of not explaining your position, not suggesting lazy in the sense of putting forth a meaningful vote(although in my opinion is was a weakass "meaningful" vote). As you would continue to do.

Intentionally withholding the information is such a cop-out. You let your vote sit on me with no response for a while. Just as you are doing with Mastin. Yet you go into these crazy side tangents.

[Benmage]

You do “confirm” the vote on Gieff later. Which is good, but in my opinion that confirmation vote had weak reasoning in itself, but I left that out because it didn’t really relate to what I was pointing out for KmD.

Are you saying you intentionally left it out to prove your point?

No, because it wasn't related to the question at hand. Wherein I was merely illustrating a history of examples of lazy/poor votes or whatever it was that gieff stated.

[Benmage]

I believe you are the scummiest player in the game.

I’m finding her more and more scummy as the day progresses.

[Benmage]

But you were aware of later backing which makes the vote you quoted less lazy/poor.

You mean future backing?

Regardless it is one of several examples. In addition I was giving her the benefit of the doubt in that case. Because Although she returns to it, and "re-affirms her vote" giving a reason.. The reason is so shitty that you could add 'crap-cases' to the list of lazy/poor votes.

[Benmage]

(plus, the reasons for my Mastin vote are clear.)

Could you please reiterate them for me? I must've missed them. Or direct me to the post I can find them.

[Benmage]

I HAVE GIVEN YOU MY VOTE FOR THE DAY.

I will vote anyone you vote.
You are a Power Role.
A Double-voter.
Hurry up and find scum gogogogogo!!!

Show me how it is done!!

Oh that’s what I thought…its humerous noone seems to care about this.

But let’s see how it works. Now follow my scum-hunting lead. Unvote

Vote Camn

.

he keeps asking me dumb questions.. !

Seriously..you’ve asked me way more questions. The last tangent was a statement to KmD.

----------------------------

Benmage

So, are you fine with Camn not scumhunting?
----------------------------

Nope. I’m willing to her hang.

----------------------------

DDD

: I have a good opinion on your analysys from our game so I'm still expecting something other than your Mastin vote... Imagine if you get killed... We would lose your valuable input...
----------------------------

Yeah dude, post more.

And since arguing with him is like trying to order chinese takeout with the sauce on the side.

I grinned at this one.

[Benmage]

I'm tempted to unvote camn, as she just nailed a mafia with her vote for camn. But I won't, just in case camn is right about camn being mafia (I see no reason not to trust her).

I don’t see a reason to switch my vote from a scum. So you guys might as well hop on this wagon.

The above applies to

everyone

requesting my input. Ask direct questions, get direct answers; otherwise I'll continue as I have been.

Wow, that is so disappointing.

I AM going to do a review of Mastin as a function of activity on the site in actual games and if he's actively avoiding this one I'll throw my vote that way.

Welcome to this week.

[Benmage]

Unvote, Vote Debonair Danny DiPietro

Maybe I was harping on the wrong lurker.

Yeah at least the other one admits he fails. Still don't get how you write off Mastin whose lurking hard too.

But this vote aint going anywhere. Camn is the lynchet today.

[Benmage]

If camn is lynched today, I will consider everyone off the wagon to be confirmed for the rest of the game, since there's no way that many Town will have voted her.

What makes you think she’s sooo town??

It’s hard to get a read from your limited contribution. But this little tidbit makes me think you may just be scum.

I forgot to mention:

Anybody on the camn-wagon will be viewed as cleared town by me the rest of the game,

Even when I flip town?

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck. It’s not our fault if you turn out to be a chicken. **(knows people won’t get analogy)**

And if Sens REALLY believes that a camn-town-lynch means ALL scum are on the wagon, there is no way he would say it out loud. If it were true (and camn were town), saying it out loud completely ruins it, and ensure at least one scum will keep off the wagon. I would think that sacrificing one townie to confirm 6 townies would be a great deal. Why did you ruin this, Sens, if you really believe it?

Well naturally 8 scum in this game would be a bit much.

I actually WANT to die. I want to be lynched.
So once again, your conclusions are wrong.

It’s so utterly lame when people do this. Games aren’t always going to be lovey-dovey…so lame.

Actually.. I would rather die than continue this game.
I don't care about looking townie at all.
But please.. continue ignoring what I actually say and inserting what YOU think in its place. that works.

MORE CAMN VOTES PLEASE!!!!!!

I have felt this way for a while.. but I felt bad about getting suicidal. (they say suicide is anti-town)
But I honestly have come to the conclusion that my death will HELP the town, by shedding light onto the incredibly POOR state of you and BenMage's so-called "logic"... and by taking away the distraction of your unhealthy obsession with me.

If I were a dayVig I might have even vigged me

Please replace out, get some strand of dignity. Stop ruining our game.

2) The other theory I have is that you're pulling a gambyt to look town... the "look, she is willing to die, so she probably isn't scum" one....

This or she’s just letting her emotions get to her. She should just replace out.

[Benmage]

@VP

What makes Camn town for you?

[Benmage]

And see it as unlikely that both of you are town.

Agree.

[Benmage]

I have a bad feeling this day is going to draggggg.

[Benmage]

I'd be willing to lynch Mastin.

In order of lynch preference would be:
Camn
Mastin

So if it ends the day I'm for it. Nobody lurks and lurks when they were L-1 and a leading wagon for so long..while being active elsewhere on the site.

[Benmage]

I think you mis-worded the question, but, in a surprising turn of events, i'm against a Mastin lynch atm. Scummy as his limited posting has been, im considering his lurking more towntell than anything, especially given the setup.

ZzzZ, and so the day drags.

[Benmage]

No it doesnt. She didnt actually GIVE her vote to Benmage, she's merely mimicking his votes, which makes it seem more like a ruse. I can just about see what she might have hoped to gain from giving the vote to Benmage-get some reactions, and if he's scum (as she believes) would he use it to get a mislynch but leave himself open to attack tomorrow, or to bus a buddy, and play the long game. Because of her jibes at Ben knowing who is scum, she might have assumed he would bus, but when his vote went to her, she should have thought twice, and not continued that line. Benmage voting Camn with the proxy is a towntell from my PoV.

Phew, thought more about it than i did. I felt it was just a ruse. I don't mind the mimic vote, especially since I think she’s scum. Scum giving town their vote is awesome. I'm town, so I don't worry about future pressure.

1.) Ultimately the way it went down is indefensible. It has to be dealt with.
--- No way in hell will it ever be dealt with via NK if he IS town.
2.) 30 pages for day 1 is enough. Probably more than enough.
3.) Restarting and regrouping if we are wrong will help.
--- The information gained if we are right is invaluable.
4.) Mastin is a much higher lynch choice for me versus some of the others on the table. I took the tinfoil hat off but its still there staring at me.

I like this post. Very logical.

@VP What makes Camn town for you?

Her frustration reads as genuine town. GIEFF's case isn't so much strong as it is repetitious, which is damn annoying. It is most likely that they are both town and the scum are just loving this diversion. People who are somewhat on the sidelines of it and want it to continue (you) have a higher probability of being scum than either camn or GIEFF do.

Alright. However, me being on the sidelines is because I couldn’t care for Gieff’s case. It was repetitive, filled with fluff and weak points. My vote of her, and my interpretation of her as scum has nothing to do with Gieff’s points. Our votes are together and we have been lumped together only on the basis that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.

And I think that they DO have tried to actively derail the waggon. Look at KMD and tell me I'm wrong.

Give me the top five reasons to lynch camn.

Can I answer this? Or do you want alex to specifically…?

Ooh, if only i had your aptitude with acronyms, you...Virgin Prick.

Heh, I had to laugh. I could have been referring to benmage! (who has actually jumped ahead of you in scumminess for his love of the camn wagon).

I noticed the acronym, and thought it was meant for both of us. I am jealous I was not as witty as Battle mage…. Sigh Battle Mage-1 Benmage-0…the war has only just begun.

Most of that 30 pages was shit. We got some good stuff tho-more than most towns get on Day 1. And it doesnt look like we're starting to flake. We dont have a deadline. I'm actually enjoying the discussion and getting quite alot out of it. So why the hell is there a rush to end the day?

I do think we have a very effective first day. 30 pages is a lot considering our player size. Unfortunately we have too many side-liners. So either we wait for them to catch-up in which case this game may die, or we vote(Mastin). I myself was beginning to feel disconnected/detached at the stagnation beginning to occur.

3.) Restarting and regrouping if we are wrong will help.
--- The information gained if we are right is invaluable.

I'd rather wait and make a more educated decision. What you neglect to note, is that one of us will be NKed tonight. They wont have a chance to get their thoughts down again, so i think it's kinda a moral thing as well that you should let everyone finish their piece. I'd like to sort my thoughts on VP Baltar out, before he NKs me.

So sort away. But I’d like to see what tomorrow brings, and who turns. I think that information itself will help shed some new light. Plus the night phase may be the needed page break to give the lurkers time to catch-up.

A mislynch costs us because scum get to make an NK. And Mastin is not the most useless player here.

Who is?
He must be a top 3.

[Benmage]

a 30 page Day 1 in a large normal is about average i think. You call this stagnation? The amount of posting we have tonight speaks volumes about the state of the game. If anything, things are picking up, rather than slowing down.

Things are picking up now that people are excited about stringing up Mastin. That is all. When all the votes we're spread out..i felt the game was, or had the possibility to slow down. Again even now what will the future hold? Are we going to hammer Mastin? We won't get enough votes for Camn. I won't vote someone other than Camn or Mastin (save a massive scum-tell). Are we going to let people like Mastin, BCC and Ceph catch-up. The rest of us do what? Twiddle our thumbs...

[Benmage]

It's just lazy. Say what you want about him, but i'd rather have Mastin-town as deadweight, than Alex-town who will probably lead us to a string of mislynches. Camn-town is dangerous too. Mastin isnt causing any harm atm, and if he gets his arse in gear, he will be useful.

Thats what several of you concluded earlier anyway.

*shrugs*

Not me. I've felt him scum since the getgo…and letting scum get away with sliding through this game is atrocious. How can you condone one who lurks as badly as he does, while posting elsewhere on the site. How much dire can ones game get when they themselves are sitting at L-1 and the days lead candidate for this long.

[Benmage]

Well, lets say Mastin remains our back-up lynch. I'll accept that, if you accept that Camn is a better lynch, and for now at least, come over to this side of the fence and vote for her.

My vote hasn't moved from her. I already said my lynch preference is:
Camn
Mastin

[Benmage]

Tell me this. How is him lurking while at L-1, scummy? It is undoubtedly poor form, but scumtell? I think not. As i've said, i feel his lurking is more town than anything, and think how long the game would be now if he'd been around all day. xD

I don't have the best experience with Mastin, but I've never seen him lurk like this when town. I don't put any action past what a scum might gamble.

Perhaps he felt he was doomed, and thought the silence would stall, and people would get sidetracked onto a different case, cause a mislynch, and then seek a vengence lynch the next day. Giving mastin quite some leeway especially if he came back guns-blazzing looking town.

I stated ages ago, that his commentary in regards to us waiting for him to catch wasn't that necessary because I truthfully felt he wouldn't of said anything dire enough to change our minds and change the lynch target of the day. So he would of commented, we would've said thank you very much...and hammered.

Conclusion: I am not putting his lurker behavior past being a scum-tell.

[Benmage]

Ah sorry. I should keep working on the reading.

BM

Battle Mage-1 Benmage-.5

[Benmage]

Battle Mage-1 Benmage-.5

i was thinking along the same lines, but felt that ur meagre scoring from that wasnt worth a whole point, so didnt mention it
[/quote]
Glad we're on the same page . I also figure if either of us gets lynched the other gets say 2-3 points. If NK'd the other gets 1 point....fair?
We'll see which mage reigns supreme!

[Benmage]

<<<fail quoter

[Benmage]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm having access problems with MS.net at my home computer. In the games where I am pages behind, this will be a hindrance; I don't have time in 30 minutes to catch up. It should be fixed by tomorrow; I'll see what I can do then.

You will be dead by tomorrow.

*crosses his fingers*

[Benmage]

I'll vote camn. Hell, I help get it done.

*is still waiting*

[Benmage]

Jesus, no. We should be lynching Mastin or alex, as that is where the majority of agreement by the group is at. I really think if we give the camn situation a night for everyone to relax and look back, things will make much more sense.

You know ironically I do agree. I think she’s scum and I want her lynched. But I’d like her to relax a little a bit and re-approach the game. It is a game!

@Camn sorry if I’ve been a bit to offensive this game. I play abrasive; sometimes I go a bit too far.

If she is indeed town, she’d be seeking her own innocence. I say this because I’m town, and in someway I think she believes her lynching will shed “clarity” on my allegiance. (not sure if I’m making sense…borderline drunk atm)

Basically we have 30+ pages. Wonderful. She shouldn’t be yielding to emotion or giving up on the game. Frustrated or whatnot, she can take a back seat sure, but seeking her own death is lame.

unvote

vote spyrex

So useless. And any reasoning would’ve been awesome..but its apparent we just throw votes anywhere in this game.

alex.

Any post you make over 200 wordss, I will not even so much as skim. Make your posts short (200 words is more than you need for a D1 case), or I won't read/respond to them.

Capt’n douchebag over here. Alex, I’d of stopped trying to talk to him ages ago. Lynch him D3 when everyone else realizes how useless he is.

Eh…done rambling.

[Benmage]

Lets analyze this.

A) I never did this:

For example, you tell me your vote for me isn't OMGUS, yet admit to alex that it is

B) BUT let's say I did, just for the sake of argument. Why, as SCUM, would I do this? I honestly don't think OMGUS votes are scummy. So why, AS SCUM, wouldn't I admit it if that had been my reason? Or as town, for that matter?
The answer? I WOULD HAVE ADMITTED IT!
I sometimes even list omgus as the reason for my votes... as scum and town. So why lie?

I don't think omgus'ing is scummy myself. I do it as town all the time. But people do feel it is. And as scum I tend to play a bit more reserved. So even if I feel it isn't a big scum tell, others might and so as scum i'd avoid doing it.

[Benmage]

I, however, do NOT avoid doing it.

As a matter of fact, I have omgus-KILLED people more than once.

You've done this as scum?

[Benmage]

I say this because I’m town

This is the second time you've felt the need to say this.

*mental note*

BM

Read Mafia 91. I say it a lot when it’s true.

Did you read my post on Jammer? How would you explain away that glaring inconsistency? And what is your stance towards Alex again?

Glaring inconsistency…maybe I am reading wrong. He states why Alex is scummy, and tosses I suppose you into who he feels is scummy overall.

I don’t thin scum will NK Mastin.
I don’t think jammer will be lynched today, though I’ll look at him in iso.

We have Mastin, who is known to lurk specifically as Scum, lurking.
We lynch Mastin today, then move on to deal with the VIs tomorrow.

^this

Indeed.

Attn: GIEFF, benmage, spyrex, and camn---the time has come to do the right thing and vote Mastin. Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders. Furthermore, Mastin's scum meta is to lurk when he gets behind. Be pro-town and help this game move forward.

Alright, but if I vote. No-one else “yet” because my vote makes it L-2, Camn’s would be L-1. I don’t want someone voting inbetween and having Camn just hammer.
Reasoning:
**I like to who SensFan and Jammer would of liked to see lynched today. Neither have voted for sometime.

[Benmage]

Oh ya, I wanted a quick votecount

MOD

before voting just to make sure my assessment was correct.

[Benmage]

Grand news guys. No need to NK/Lynch me. I'll probably get myself mod-killed shortly. It just happened twice to me within days. Sigh...so as to be sure i re-read the rules in this game!

And found this:

• This game will have regular 4-week deadlines. The number of votes required to lynch will not be changed at deadline.

Is there a shown deadline?

[Benmage]

SF waits till Mastin is at L-1, then hammers instantly. I thought that was clear?

I thought mastin was sitting L-1 before…

so if he flips scum we know exactly who to string up tomorrow.

We do?

Sens

, who do you want to see hung today?

[Benmage]

*hanged.

Battle 1.5 - 0.5 Ben

Ooo you're reaching, but alright.

[Benmage]

Yeah^^^
I'm not gonna vote because Camn will hammer, and its clear about half of us don't want the game the day to end just yet. I'm willing to let a little more time pass before I do vote. Because quite frankly I want to see the Mastin hanging.

SO everyone get out any last statements!

(Personally i need to do that jammer iso)

[Benmage]

@Mod not sure if he’s been inactive long enough yet. But Ceph has 5 posts! His last one is about 2 days ago wherein he said he’d hopefully have more access the next day. That clearly didn’t happen.

BCC replaced in, and also only has 4 posts… Again his last one is almost 3 days ago. Prod him too?

It’s been roughly 2 days for Mastin as well. These three inactive players/lurkers are killing this game/day.

Pro-tip: Mastin is only at L-4 right now.

What makes you so certain Camn will hammer, benmage?

I'm willing to let a little more time pass before I do vote. Because quite frankly I want to see the Mastin hanging.

Do these seem like contradictary statements to anyone else?

Rofl why was I thinking it needed 8 to lynch.
Ehh, wording is sketchy. I want to see Mastin hang, but will allow some more information to first develop. (personally I’d like to examine jammer in iso)

But since it’s L-4 unvote

vote Mastin

.

[Benmage]

I mean i thought 6 needed to lynch, not 8.***

[Benmage]

Don't think that little piece of vote bartering you did with Alex has gone unnoticed by me...

Unvote Mastin

I suspect alex and camn are buddies. I asked them both questions about the other

Alex claims to find camn scummy, claims to want to save Mastin, yet refuses to vote her to do so. Hmm.

I also asked camn if she would prefer a Mastin or alex lynch, and she chose Mastin.

So shouldn't we be voting Camn?

I found Camn scummy... but all those defenses from KMD, VP and other people wifomed my brains out.

What if they are scum and know Camn is town? etc, etc... So... I'm not willing to be wrong about Camn right now...

I WONT save Mastin at this point. If he is town, wich he probably is, that's too bad. But at least you won't be pushing his lynch again.

I prefer a BM lynch.

So would you be willing to vote camn?

To note: I am still quite willing to see here lynched, via my preference.

[Benmage]

Wouldn't the coaching occur in the QT?

[Benmage]

@ Benmage: It was my understanding that scum could only post during the QT during the night phase. Am I incorrect?

Oh, don't know these forums rules in an out. The only QT i had was mason, and it was day and night.

[Benmage]

Benmage, have you been scum before with a daytalk QT?

Actually not me, but I believe someone else in a previous game of mine confirmed they had seen day talk scum before.

[Benmage]

Do one of those avg posts and characters again, I wanna see if there's been much of a change.

[Benmage]

Mind if I ask Flameaxe to verify that?

Yeah, go nuts. Why would i lie about that... I was scum in both my newbie games. 728/720.

[Benmage]

Unvote

I hate this game sometimes.

I follow the process. Waiting for Mastin.

@Gieff/SensFan

You guys for or not for seeing Mastin lynched today?

[Benmage]

@ Benmage:

I am less OK with a Mastin lynch than I was recently. This is due to alex's grandstanding about being against a Mastin lynch, yet refusing to do anything about it.

As I said, it smells like a scum player trying to set himself up to look good after a mislynch.

alex-scum/mastin-town also fits in with his nutsocaps - why would a town player defend ANYBODY so strongly without reason? And a scum player wouldn't be so obvious about defending his buddy.

Fair enough. But for the sake of the game, do you realistically believe you can persuade a majority onto a different player? Or even Alex for this case...I doubt it, and if mastin does flip town. Alex's over excessive defense is certainly something to note.

[Benmage]

Attn: GIEFF, benmage, spyrex, and camn---the time has come to do the right thing and vote Mastin. Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders. Furthermore, Mastin's scum meta is to lurk when he gets behind. Be pro-town and help this game move forward.

I'll give him 2 days to explain and then I'll vote. Access issues (which I apparently missed him saying in his games) or not doesn't change the fact it was a slew of posts in other games before the issues and not addressing this one. 2 days is plenty even with a shitty connection to say something relevant in this game.

Do you even believe he could catchup in days. He's been sitting on page 4 for 5 days now. Even in these next two days if he devotes his time solely to this game, that's quite the personal feat.

And as I've said, what epiphany are you expecting to have once he posts. I honestly can't imagine him convincing me not to lynch him today.

[Benmage]

and if mastin does flip town. Alex's over excessive defense is certainly something to note.

What if Mastin flips scum? Is Alex's defense less notable then?

We'll have to see by his continual game play. If he seems scummy in several other aspects than this could be added and possible viewed as a monumental newb-mistake on overreacting/supporting/looking to save a scum buddy.

[Benmage]

HOWEVER, regardless of that why the hell wouldn't you give the CHANCE for it?

I grow weary of D1, and honestly don't imagine him responding on anything in the next two days. At best, there's no way he reads past page 10.

[Benmage]

All of whom seem to be VERY against it.

That's a blatant lie so chill, because the rest of the post was actually very nice. That ending almost ruined everything for me. I don't ever really recall mentioning anything worth weight in regards to alex's allegiance. I certainly have seemed very against him being lynched. I haven't seemed like anything in regards to him being lynched. All i've stated is i'd like to see Camn or Mastin lynched.

[Benmage]

Just because Zach, Benmage, and camn are flipping out (to varying degrees) about an alex lynch doesn't mean it is the wrong play.

You're losing your whole argument with this non-sense.

[Benmage]

Spryex, jammer, zach, sensfan, battle mage, and kmd have all voted you at one point or another this day Gieff. If I voted you, camn would too. That looks like a possible 8 votes there if someone were to push your lynching.

[Benmage]

If you aren't against an alex lynch, why are you trying to tear down my argument?

Because I was null on the feeling. I didn’t think it a logical course to attempt today because the chances seemed to low and I felt much more convicted in other areas and thought other people illustrated stronger scum-tells. I thought post 942 was eye-opening, but the last line of that post in conjunction with post 943 has ruined your case for me.

It is not a lie at all. I read your iso for every interaction you've had with alex, and I know there's no way you will be voting for him today.

Lots of agreeing, lots of backing him up, and very little aggression.

How the fuck does that even come close to associating that I am VERY against it. It is an idiotic claim.

Spryex, jammer, zach, sensfan, battle mage, and kmd have all voted you at one point or another this day Gieff. If I voted you, camn would too. That looks like a possible 8 votes there if someone were to push your lynching.

And now you breaks out the chainsaw. Or the threat of one, at least.

Yes, I can tell I was VERY wrong when I said it seemed like you were strongly against alex's lynch.

Or I’m showing you that you’re cause might not be the strongest. People have shifted their votes around a lot. That is what I’m getting at. Yet when you continue to make idiotic statements it makes me want to be the one to re-push your wagon.

And this is just ONE measly vote.

I wonder how Benmage will react if he gets up to 4 or 5 votes?

Because I’ve buddied Alex this game? We were one of the first to butt-heads in regards to Mastin. You’re destroying any time of reputation for bring forth effective cases with stupid continuations and statements like these past few.

[Benmage]

In fact, the only people AGAINST an alex lynch seem to be Benmage, Zach, and camn. All of whom seem to be VERY against it.

Actually.. this IS a blatant lie.
I challenge you to find me opposing an alex lynch.
I challenge you further to find me being "VERY" against it.
You misrep me once again.

Here are some things I found....

My opinion on alex has naturally developed as the game progresses. I like him less and less.

Plus, just cuz I am for a Mastin lynch...don't think that I am against an alex lynch.

I am for it.

Is Alex ALREADY trying to take credit for staying off the Mastin Wagon?

Yeah Gieff just tried to push a major lie, and it backfired.

[Benmage]

Unvote

vote Gieff

...maybe D1 isn't close to ending. I can sit idly at Gieff's horrendous claims.

Camn...if you'd be so kind .

[Benmage]

I

can't

sit idly at Gieff's horrendous claims.

^^meant to say can't

[Benmage]

Benmage.: I said it

seems

like you are very against it. And I feel like I have since been vindicated based on your response. You claim not to care, yet you bring out the threat of lynching me. If you don't care, then fine - I don't need your vote anyway.

The “seem” was shadowed by the NuTsOCaPs of “VERY”
My feelings were null on it. Like I said I liked the post 942, and it made me want to re-exhibit alex. However I’ve totally lost interest in doing that because of the last line in that post and post 943. For before I even responded you state I’m(and camn) are also “flipping out” about an alex lynch. Another lie.

Yes, that camn-alex buddy theory is looking more and more far-fetched by the minute.

You’re *badword* dense. Camn is voting however I vote dumbass.

[Benmage]

Well, I don't know if I'm "*badword* dense", but I do know that I'm not quite dense enough to try to prove I'm OK with somebody's lynch by chainsaw-voting the person who casts the first vote.

I was fine with your vote on alex. Again I actually liked the argument you raised in post 942. (you keep ignoring this) I voted for you because I can't stand such blatant lies. They were unnecessary and it appears like you added them only to make your case seem stronger.

[Benmage]

@Spryex, jammer, zach, sensfan, battle mage, and kmd

How do you guys feel about lynching Gieff today? You've all previously voted him.

[Benmage]

I challenge you to find me opposing an alex lynch.
I challenge you further to find me being "VERY" against it.

Why are you ignoring my challenge, Gieff?
I support an alex lynch.
I have never opposed an alex lynch.

You are starting to trip over your own misrepresentations, i think.

He's "done" talking to us. If I ever look as big of an ass as he just did, remind me to stop after the first go around...i.e. something like post 942 of his.

[Benmage]

Mastin wagon is still in the lead and makes a great deal of sense if people would cease getting distracted by GIEFF.

I concur. I wasn't worried about Mastin getting in a response, but other people finishing their day thoughts before the day ended.

[Benmage]

Alright what the fuck... a game just started and Mastin is posting there, yet magically still avoiding this thread.

[Benmage]

Regarding Gieff, i dont really care if his comments about Camn's views aren't accurate. Neither of them are being lynched today, and the point isnt one that really poses relevance to eithers affiliation anyway. Camn DOES need to join the Alex wagon.

His comments about me were also false. If he's going to prove a case, the worst thing to do will be to lie.

[Benmage]

kmd... you've gone all the way to defend camn....all the way... Much more than what I have done with mastin. I don't understand how that's being ignored as opposed to my mastin defense.

It has been noted. But one thing, one lynching at a time.

[Benmage]

Fair enough. But for the sake of the game, do you realistically believe you can persuade a majority onto a different player? Or even Alex for this case...I doubt it, and if mastin does flip town. Alex's over excessive defense is certainly something to note.

do you notice a pattern...? mastin town will make me look bad. Mastin scum makes me look bad too... I'm not gonna let people play it like that AFTER we see the flip.

So you're saying it is in your best interest to see Mastin live. Well, I think it is in the towns best interest to see him lynched. Especially with his lurkyness. I hate lurkers, they've lost games for me.

[Benmage]

You won't be lynched today. Calm down.

[Benmage]

However... Battle Mage has been scummy beyond anything else...

for instance... he's been voting players and after he received no support or thought he was going nowhere he called them town, just to be sure there would be no retaliation...

I know. Mad people have dropped scum-tells. I'm sure I'm not excluded. I'm not saying to ignore. Definitely, please note them. But at this point being past 40 pages, we should start to concentrate on the few we think could actually be lynched today. If you, like Gieff, think you can persuade 8 onto KmD or BM...than go nuts.

[Benmage]

@Spryex, jammer, zach, sensfan, battle mage, and kmd

How do you guys feel about lynching Gieff today? You've all previously voted him.

I'd be fine with it, but the day needs to end and Mastin actually has votes.

Well that's you, me, zach and camn. Plus he's jammer's #2 guy. So that is essentially 5.

@SensFan/SpryeX

What do you guys feel about lynching Gieff today?

[Benmage]

I'm opposed to lynching Alexhans today yes.

[Benmage]

@VPB/DDD What are your opinions on Gieff? Are you willing to lynch him today?

I'm more than happy to lynch Mastin, but as long as his wagon continues to derail, and as long as Gieff is intent to keep it from happening, I am happy to vote for him instead.

QFT

Do I have any chance of opening your eyes before tomorrow about BM? because I'm almost willing to vote mastin provided that Yaw guarantees us a LONG night and a replacement for Cephir who is damaging this game greatly.

And BCC?

After over 1000 posts I can not believe that Mastin has not been lynched yet.

What does the inability to get support for his lynch say about his alignment? I mean... seriously?

It is quite comical.

GIEFF, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are making it somewhat difficult for this game to move forward. Arriving at a concensus now would be a good thing for the town. There is a lot of information to be garnered from a Mastin lynch, and it will eliminate a lurker. There is not a downside to this.

Indeed, I think we had 6, and we’re getting real close to lynching Mastin before Gieff completely derailed it. I think you should vote him.

I have played with Cephrir once and he was scum. He lurked, but he would check into the game every now and then in order to steer the town toward mislynching. This is something that he is not doing in this game, and I think is somewhat notable.

Lurkers have lost me games in the past. And what meta would you give him if he came flying in on D3 or on a lylo with crazy accusations. Than we go w.t.f and lynch him cause he was lurking all game, and bam he flips town. I’d rather lynch the useless lurker D1/D2 or have them replaced than let them last to endgame.

I'm really surprised at how much resistance there is to alex's lynch, considering how many people said "it's alex or mastin guys," and considering that 9 players put alex on their scum-list.

Some of those people just had him in their possible scum suspects, of which you were often included.

Perhaps surprisingly, I don't like a GIEFF lynch anymore, but will support if if needed.

Check.

Or, all the people who are saying they would vote mastin could simply do it and this day could be done within the hour. He's at what, L-3 right now? Something like that.

Zach, Sens, jammer--little help please.

I’m willing to hammer it. And by that I mean Camn probably would, so an L-2 on Mastin will = a hammer from us. I’m with this day needing to end. I’d like to re-read a few people in Iso, and think a Night phase will give us a needed pause, and some new information on the morning.

And who should change their votes back to Mastin at this point.

Ugh, but wouldn’t a Gieff lynching be so much funnier.

Come on, Ben!! Lets do it!!
I am feeling bloodthirsty!

Can you vote with me all-game. It’s like I’ve become a PR in an all town game!

[Benmage]

oh rightttt... Unvote

Vote Mastin

[Benmage]

Yessir I only illustrated Gieff's useless-ness by suggesting there are several possible lynch targets but Mastin was strongest. He derailed it, so since I already felt it derailed and I was angry has his blatant misrepresentation I actually hoped to lynch him. Once enough people got back to their senses, I of course was willing to return to the mastin lynch.

New Lynch preference:
Mastin
Gieff

[Benmage]

Oh wow, glad i lvied tonight. I read a couple iso during the weekend and have some comments to post. Let me tweak them(quoting was impossible with thread locked) The last one was actually VPB ...i'll post em shortly.

[Benmage]

Okay so the first person I did was Jammer.

Jammer:

Mastin you plan using meta to see who killed the cow, while you already made clear scum can easily wifom the meta. With that, there only has to be one that played with hascow, to know him and kill him. You think(and others?) talking about meta, is a better way to find scum, then simple scumhunting?

What with Mastin dead and flipped town, perhaps some of his initial foresight wasn’t too far off. If we recall he said Battle Mage had most experience with cow, and would probably have tried to NK him. It’s just something to note.

*Starts off posting moderately (posts 8 times on his first day). Concerned with NK meta. Perhaps chainsawing for a scummate? He moves into the # of scum discussion where he received some heat for agreeing with alex on 4.

It sounds, if I said 3 you would yell towards other players to vote me, the obv. scum.

Gieff was pushing it quitE hard. Another thing to note.

I don’t know about this next post:

You pull conclusions far to soon for my opinion. If the number of scums I called was 3 you where ready to vote me off without any though at all.
(and yes, sorry I messed up some quote tags)

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

@camn, why ask specificly VP's opinion about hascow, earlier?

@Kairyuu, What do you think about the opposing of the meta N0 kill from SensFan. While he is suspected becouse of this by you and Mastin.(top-suspect)

^^ trying to draw the attention elsewhere? Seems to work, moves down to 3 posts for your second day of posting. You than have a day where you post once. Some days you skip, the max I’m re-seeing for a bit is 3 posts. Trying to stay a bit off radar are we?

You say we should ignore the kill?

Yes, or come with something good. You say not to disregard the kill, yet I've seen nothing usefull on that topic coming from you.

Still pushing this defense…Do you still think there is nothing to gain from N0/N1 killings?
…

1)NK-speculation distracts
2) Multiple scum, what if they interact and make the whole kill more complicated.
3) The wifom aspect, it wasn't a normal kill to start with. So they didn't think about wifom? Also refering to DDDs post 115.
4) It did not get us out of RVS stage.
5) As you ignored question posed earlier, I assume noone has ever founded arguments out of it, to catch scum with it.

Can we stop now about the discussion with meta N0 kills?

You talked about how it isn't useless. But don't who the suspects would be according to it.

^^more anti NK speculation.

Speaking from Alex POV.
tbh, I don't think the Mastin-case is very strong.

Off Alex PoV or inside knowledge as scum?

@alexhans,
I'm thinking the wall-post war gets more personal then actual bringin points forward.
Is BM your main suspect?

Though I will say right now that I'm not liking what I am seeing from Battle Mage so far.

Tell me, what you don't like about BM.

Looking to defend your fellow scum?
Restates it:

Zachrulez, now that you are here, could you anwser?

Though I will say right now that I'm not liking what I am seeing from Battle Mage so far.

Tell me, what you don't like about BM.

don't really like the last followers of the Mastin wagon, DDD & SF. I don't think falling behind after being V/LA and having other games where to catch up is a relieable meta-tell at this point and doesn't deserve that amount of votes while he isn't posting.
I think Alex is thinking along those lines. But was going against the wagon a little to hard. He is more attacking the "intentions" of the wagon followers then defending Mastin himself.

Way to conveniently get on both sides of the alex issue.

Nah, I agree with Alex stand. Mastin is being overlay voted for lurking and his stand on N0 NK's. In your case just for lurking IIRC. I haven't pressed <caps lock> to defend Alex. But I'm on his site, he is getting (to much) attention with the overreacted defence. What was misplaced, what I said earlier.

^^Forced to become more definite when pressured.

Meh, no lynching of BM today imo. And Mastin has to catch up faster then the thread is growing for a time. Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

(BM alliance, knowledge of mastin)

@alexhans, try making a post. Then look at it and delete everything out of it that isn't necessarily needed. Or make some summary at the end of your posts. Just make it possible I have to read less of it.

^Comical, will probably add to conclusion.
****Nah, he directed Alex post and referred back to most lines. He mentions and comments little things. But isn't pushing him on small points. More a startup for a fluffy-wall-war.
Re-looking his case lost power because of this "fluff", you couldn't find the point in it. You pressure with cases without a solid point inside, and with pressure get attention. The basis for wanting to lynch Alex, the overreaction on Mastin. Is more solid then any of your cases.
I'm not voting you for a page2 case on me. Otherwise my vote would never left you. Anyway, can you link me to a game where you're town and one where you're scum?***********Post 28 further BM Defense********
Fluff
Fluff
Fluff

This is pretty much my lynching list. I think this is what some people asked for different reasons.
Mastin
Gieff
Alexhans

Not the worst list at the time given, or the information available.

Conclusion: Ends the day not voting. If Jammer is scum, I think possible scum partners could include KmD, Zach, Sensfan…maybe Battle Mage but not as strongly as the other three. Although I initially thought BM a likely scum partner in the beginning the two butted-heads a little bit towards the end of the day. I’m certaintly not ruling out Battle Mage, maybe other iso’s will be more insightful Also if he is scum, I think it likely that Alex, Gieff, VP and…maybe SpryeX are town, but not as strong as the others. Vice versa on reads if reverse allegiance is shown.

To note: No effective read on DDD. Simply, I don’t remember much of him from the game, due to his lacking input. All I recall is his “ask me questions”…no insight gained on him through jammer’s iso.
Clearly no read on Ceph, 5 total posts. *sigh*
No read on BCC, however jammer does ask Kaiyruu a question in that distraction post aforementioned. Though I think it is a null-tell, could be a viable address as scum or town.
^^This actually made me want to look at Kai’s iso…which is quite brief, I won’t mention much, but feel free to look at it. It did sound town to me, so I’ll note that much in bcc’s defense. Replacing out for not being able to keep up is something town should always do and Mastin as hindered us somewhat for failing to do this.

For looking at Kai, I also looked at bcc…as useless as it may seem, and as little information as there is. After complaining about the walls of texts and catching up etc etc he makes one mid brief analysis, promises more but doesn’t.
Thinks Camn/Alex could be scum, and lots of town feelings. Overall null…not enough information.

[Benmage]

Damn messed up where you see all the *************(those were notes for me) and is a reference to post 28, that was copy'd from jammers iso 28, and further hints at him buddying battle mage.

[Benmage]

The next real person I wanted to read in iso was SensFan.

Opens strongly against NK speculation. Is this a commonality of his?
First votes for jammer. Supports this decision with his “gut”.
Believes 3:12 steup is most logical.
Has no qualm with hammering.
Believes pressure on BM is stupid.

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

(has vote on Gieff)
Initial scum opinions.

Mastin, alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's at least one, if not two or all three, in there.

The Mastin wagon appears to be biggest, so

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

.

---

Adds Mastin to his scum opinions, based largely on others occurrings in the thread.
Defends his position on Mastin. 1st vs VPB, than vs Alex.
Returns vote to Gieff. Semi-peculiar.
3 posts later, hops back to Mastin. Previous defense involved him not being voter-happy:

Unvote: Vote Mastin

Will come back to GIEFF tomorrow.

Scum trying to push the lead wagon?

Oops, didn't realize that was a L-1 vote.

Unvote.

^^Maybe not…or maybe just trying to look town.

Continues to push Mastin wagon, site-ing his lurkieness while posting elsewhere on the site.

Fluff/odds with Alex.
Re-states Mastin is lurker scum.
QuitE! Apposed to the Camn wagon. Protecting fellow scum?

Not interested in a jammer lynch today.

^ ok…no jammer lynch. Noted.
Two posts and 9 minutes later:

Alex and jammer would be obvious lynches in 95% of D1s.

The fact the game also features Mastin and Benmage means they might live a little longer than their play deserves.

Alex and

jammer

95% lynched D1?? But Mastin and I??? are neglecting this. Is this the first time SF even mentions me…I though you weren’t interested in a jammer lynch.

Christ, guys. Stop spamming this thread, and let's agree on a fucking lynch.

Mastin or Alex should be lynched.
Jammer and Benmage lynches would be fine as well.
People who aren't named's lynch wouldn't affect this game, since they aren't posting. They probably shouldn't be lynched, but its better than nothing.
Perhaps surprisingly, I don't like a GIEFF lynch anymore, but will support if if needed.
I don't like a Zach lynch at all.
I will only vote BM/Camn/KMD/Sens at a deadline, to avoid a No Lynch.

Edited, since I forgot Zach.

Conclusion: Despite his continual opinion that Mastin was lurker scum, including his ending desire to see him lynched, he fails to be on the wagon, or have his vote anywhere at days end.

SF is a tough read for now. His posts don’t have nearly as much information as others. He comes off gruff…ok—null. In regards to SF being a scum partner of jammer’s I think the information from SF’s iso is null. He opens voting for him. Quarrels with him slightly, yet in the middle he states he doesn’t want to lynch jammer. He lists him high in his last post as possible lynches, but I think this can also be a null point. As far as overall sentiment…I do get a feeling from reading his iso in regards to jammer as slightly less that they are scum partners, but overall null as further information/development is necessary.

I doubt that SF could be scum partners with Alex or Gieff. I’m less inclined to believe he could be partners with scum partners with VPB, but there isn’t enough information to make that read substantial. I think he could be scum with Camn….maybe BM, a slight reach here. Again, overall too little information regarding too many other players to get any sort of town/scum reads with most.

Ending: He might be scum, there isn’t a whole lot of information to get concrete reads on. Yet that might be scummy itself. Overall null on SF being town or scum.

[Benmage]

The next one's VP B...I didn't finish his conclusion section(might add a little overall sentiment) As i fix my quotes I won't edit his section or my comments with his role being revealed. I'll probably reflect on everything and the days events in a future post.

[Benmage]

VP Baltar:

Opens commenting on of course the NK speculation.

The kill would be most likely to come from someone who knows hascow. Furthermore, I believe that a senior player on the scum team would have more sway and would help direct the kill toward someone like hascow, as opposed to someone a newer person might be more inclined to kill based on overall site rep alone.

So who do you think this senior player could be? Battle Mage, SensFan…yourself?

Defends jammer against Gieff’s rather weakcase suggesting 4 possible scum as a slip. Caught up on the semantics of “believable”

(Votes Battle Mage)

If that is your idea of a trap BM, then it's pretty lame. I want to reread this interaction between you two sometime today and get a little better feel for what each of you are arguing.

I agree the trap was weak. Battle Mage doesn’t get town credit for this. What are your feelings regarding the interaction now?

I think his "NuTsOcApS", as benmage put it, was overboard and weird, boardering on being scummy. Other than that, I get the vibe that they sort of feed off each other since they have similar posting styles and perhaps he is letting his personal feelings toward Mastin paint his perception of his alignment. It is something that is worth keeping in mind, but I don't think it is a lynch worthy offense.

^^A relatively early D1 comment. He doesn’t think Alex’s drastic defense of Mastin, however “overboard and weird, boardering on being scummy”, worthy of a lynch. Peculiar…perhaps subtly defending his scum buddy.

I have recently discovered that Mastin's scum meta is to fall behind and lurk. I might not be opposed to his lynch given I have seen this prove accurate twice.

What exactly was the point of this…Seems like a decent tactic for you as scum to further the Mastin wagon.
Mmm found this a little later, the point is convicing:

Point is, neither of these is very convincing that Mastin lurks regularly as town. On the other hand, EVERY game in his wiki as scum shows him as lurking. I don't get how you come to the conclusion that this is somehow null. Your turn to actually prove your point.

How does that question spur a fight.

Well, let's see, camn has already clearly stated how and why she disagrees GIEFF's case. They both agree to let it rest. You come in and say, "hey, gee camn, what do you think of his case? "

You are clearly trying to stir an argument that isn't helping discussion to really move ahead at all, meanwhile resting safely on the sidelines. If you have a problem with GIEFF's case, then make your arguments and don't nudge camn into doing it for you.

those 2 options came to my mind, see it as how I looked at the situation. And suspected the way camn was thinking about Gieff

Wait, so you are suspicious of camn? If so, why do both of your presented options presume camn to be town?

Meh, no lynching of BM today imo.

Well, that is stellar reasoning. You are incorrect.

And Mastin has to catch up faster then the thread is growing for a time. Getting at L-2 with plain lurking is quite a achievement. I don't feel a Mastin lynch that strong.

How do you feel about him promising this game is the next point of order and proceeding to post elsewhere on the site?

At odds with jammer for multiple things. Dislikes jammer trying to rehash the camn/gieff fluff…a good point.
Dislikes jammer writing off a possible Battle Mage lynch. Another good point. If you look back to jammer’s conclusion, he and battle mage are possible scum partners. This also re-affirms the likelihood that whatever VP and jammers allegiances turn out to be the other is likely to be the opposite.

Explain please. I don't follow.

You are saying the other wagon is just like the Mastin wagon, which it's not. By doing so, you are implicitly buddying with GIEFF. Understand?

Says a player who lays on the sidelines and is content with adding small talk letting other people decide the lynches...

You're right, this game needs more walls of text like your last one. My scumhunting is going along just fine, thanks. Also, way to divert attention away from your scummy behaviour without addressing the point.

hey... calling cases crap is NEVER a good defense... you should know that by now... Was it necesary to add the words probable mislynch?

Isn't that basically what you've done this whole time about the Mastin wagon?


Alex, I would like to hear your case against SensFan in 200 words or less.

Thanks

Odds with Alex. I think VP’s iso and game influence hasn’t been too bad. He’s hasn’t wall o text’d but he hasn’t been entirely absent.
(votes Alexhans)

New rule in effect for the remainder of D1, if I can't read your whole post by scrolling once or less, it's not happening. If I missed something you really want addressed, you had better requote it.

^^ meh lame..Some of the posts are a little large, but we shouldn’t cater our play styles to fit you and this comment of ‘not reading them’ really isn’t helpful.

And yet he still lives. MORE PEOPLE VOTE MASTIN.

Back to pushing this aye.

reason being?

You’re scum

Noted.

People who need to die immediately:
Mastin or Alex or Cephrir or anyone with the initials BM

Mastin or alex ok…Cephrir, wtf..he has 4 posts at this point. This is crazy scum sidetracking. The B.M.’s…meh I’m town.

ATTENTION TOWN: WE'RE NOT LYNCHING CAMN TODAY.

More votes on people who are actually scum: Alex, Mastin or Bowel Movements.

I'll address the rest of this crap later.

Scum buddy?

Dearest GIEFF,

You and camn are both town. I've read your case. It's weak sauce and you can't let it go. There are some points that are mildly valid, but nothing that warrants a lynch. Meanwhile, Mastin is scum and you know it.

Another camn defense. But you also write off Gieff…peculiar who you state as “need to die immediately” and who you assume to be town.

@DDD-is this sort of sit back and see what happens attitude typical of your town play?

^^good, bring in the less active players.

Just a point I felt like making right now to show the relative difficulty in reading and staying caught up in this entire game.

How long do you think it takes to read a word document that is 20 pages long?

That's probably not even one of the bigger pages either...

^Voice of reason

You haven’t commented much opinion on Zach, except asking for more input. Is he a scum buddy of yours?

why would you want to shut up KMD? She has just joined the game.

Well, I think

HE

isn't actually doing much scum hunting right now. He's has mostly only been defending camn and calling GIEFF scum for attacking her. It is frankly quite obvious that both GIEFF and camn are likely town, so I don't see this as particularly useful behavior.

Again how are Gieff and Camn so obvious town…Scum insight?
(unvotes Alex, votes Mastin)
Fluff
Fluff

Attn: GIEFF, benmage, spyrex, and camn---the time has come to do the right thing and vote Mastin. Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders. Furthermore, Mastin's scum meta is to lurk when he gets behind. Be pro-town and help this game move forward.

^pushing the wagon.

This is dumb. Even if you believe Mastin is scum, there is no way that continuing the day is anti-town.

With how long you have been on this site you'd think you at least had some sort of grasp on optimal town strategy. Also, continuing the day when I feel lynching hyposcum-Mastin doesn't help the town at all. We have seen you and alex defending him for god knows what reasons, so if he flips scum we know exactly who to string up tomorrow.

^^made me chuckle. If VP and Battle Mage turn out to be scum-partners in some sort of insult masquerade, that would be masterful.

Haha, if you're gonna play the IC card, might i note that with your, comparatively limited experience, you would do well to take note of what i say concerning game strategy.

If you appeared to have any apptitude for the game, I might consider listening to you. As it is, it's unlikely.

Confirmed.
Fluff
Fluff

re:alex--I'm not against his lynch today. My lynch preference order right now is Mastin, alex, benmage.

Mastin wagon is still in the lead and makes a great deal of sense if people would cease getting distracted by

GIEFF.

And yet you don’t find Gieff scummy for distracting the wagon…very odd.
Fluff
Fluff
Pushing mastin wagon

Conclusion:

[Benmage]

I wanted to do KmD, but got a little lazy.

[Benmage]

Conclusion with VP's death. Well he was at odds with alex and jammer. I think there's good chances one of those could be scum.

[Benmage]

The fear of dying, and all my tedious work, also made me not want to continue my iso reads...maybe now that I am alive! I'll re-look at people like KmD.

Anyways! Hopefulyl Ceph and BCC confirming they want to play, caught up some during the night and have some insight.

Read what I wrote..and let's gogo D2.

[Benmage]

Benmage - why jammer, Sens, VP, and Kmd?

I promised..I believe Battle Mage?(might be incorrect) to review his iso. At jammers conclusion I wanted to do some of those listed as possible scum partners i.e KmD and SF. This was one reason. Another point was their iso's are only in the 40ish posts...much easier to cipher through.(went through all those mini-heavy lurker people at this point too)

I did SF next because I didn't feel I had a good read on him...his iso left me in a similar position, but at least now I know to ask more of him, and hope he contributes further.

Again, I wanted to do KmD, but it was a little longer than VBP's and I what I did recall was the Camn defense and I really didn't want to reread that scenario, so I went with VBP first who I felt I also did not have a good read on.

I had ZERO desire to look at you iso (i think its nearing 200 )...but anyways these people, posted were active..yet I didn't have a strong grasp on recollecting their positions...the fluff of this game has had a way of doing it....So yeah thats why I did these people.

[Benmage]

@Battle Mage

I get a bloody point for those iso's! and doing something constructive during the night phase.

Battle Mage =1.5 Benmage =1.5

[Benmage]

You call that 'constructive'? Really?

And a real question..

Are you really so shocked that you weren't nightkilled, Benmage?
For serious.

Come on...how isn't it in some way beneficial?

Not particularly surprised I suppose...but more happy, since my efforts would've been a watse of time and would've depressed me.

Btw, you still voting with me today?? please

[Benmage]

Maybe.

If you aren't surprised.. which I agree that you are not...

why did you write:

Oh wow, glad i lvied tonight.

... especially the "oh wow"???

Don't have a reason for the 'oh wow' i'd guess intital joy/zealous in being alive and being able to share my work. Clearly much thought wasn't put into that opener post as "lived" is rushed through and spelt wrong.

[Benmage]

^^ trying to draw the attention elsewhere? Seems to work, moves down to 3 posts for your second day of posting. You than have a day where you post once. Some days you skip, the max I’m re-seeing for a bit is 3 posts. Trying to stay a bit off radar are we?

You accuse me of lurking....
Can anyone second that?

Anyway, I missed your conclusion. Who is scum?

Lurkinesss..not necessarily, but being less active when pressured..putting the pressure elswhere,sure...posting without contributing/scum-hunting...ok.

The overall conclusion was never gotten to as i didn't even get to all the iso's I had wanted to. This is just some personal iso insight and for things to look at and note connections.

However of the ones read, yours is clearly scummiest.

[Benmage]

Vote: Benmage

No, I haven't read any of your walls.
No, I don't plan on reading them.
No, I don't think any sane Town player writes that much overnight.
No, I don't think you're insane.

Vote SensFan

because oh my god, you fucking suck. It was a long weekend and I didn't have much going on, nor was I in any active games till sunday. It wasn't overnight.

[Benmage]

Ah, they give connections.
Like me with Zach or BM or KMD or SF. 2 of them voted me at some point, a third atleast suspected me?

Yeah, right...because scum never vote for one another.

[Benmage]

Benmage - why did you post so much about VP Baltar? Do you think that any of it is of benefit to the town?

?? I had the notes of it all in word. Why not? Yes I think it help illustrate the distancing between VP vs jammer and alex, I'm most willing to lynch either of those two today.

[Benmage]

VP is town. How could there be distancing? How much of your willingness to lynch alex or jammer is based on their interactions with Baltar?

Where was your willingness to lynch alex yesterday?

Wow..ok let's not get caught up into semantics. VP and jammer/alex butted heads a lot. I don't think it farfetched to believe them to be on opposite sides. I.E. since VP is town, i think it highly likely that jammer or alex is scum.

The willingness was behind people I felt scummier. I.E. Mastin.

New Lynch preference for today:
jammer
SensFan
alex

[Benmage]

Vote: Benmage

.....anything?

[Benmage]

No townie has that much content ready to post at daybreak.

lol fine fuck everyone u guys are dumb.

Unvote

vote Benmage

[Benmage]

5th..wagon it up u morons. This mountainous setup...just keep waiting for that cop-role to come save you.

[Benmage]

lol fine fuck everyone u guys are dumb.

Unvote

vote Benmage

I'd suggest playing some more newbie games, they may be more fitting.

I don't see the connection. Are newbie players already better than the others in this game?

Come on camn, vote em up...follow suite lets gogo

[Benmage]

Ick, self vote...

Yeah your an idiot. I posted to much on daybreak...thats fuckign laughable. What scum sinks their teeth into the game the way I did? Noone. Scum don't want to take a forefront position. They want to remain off radar, aloof which is why I iso'd some of the people I had poor reads on/contributed significantly less than others.

[Benmage]

Jammer does pose an interesting question though.

What is with the sudden loss of interest in Gieff as a lynch?

I was illustrating a point to Gieff. Actually a few points. One he was sidetracking the mastin wagon on a useless tangent. Siting that others were willing to vote alex. I was illustrating that others were also willing to vote several different people including himself.

My interest in Gieff has subsided only because of the new surge of idiocy.

[Benmage]

Wow, I think I just choked on that WIFOM.

Yeah, so get camn and everyone else to vote. Your read is going to be perfect aye?

[Benmage]

Wow, I think I just choked on that WIFOM.

Yeah, so get camn and everyone else to vote. Your read is going to be perfect aye?

To be fair, you're mostly bringing this on yourself right now.

Perhaps but the 4 r-tards who already voted me, can't all be scum as we've previous;y deduced. And i'd rather skip continuing to playing a game with r-tards.

[Benmage]

Don't you mean 5 r-tards?

Or does your vote not count?

I meant already voted me, as in before I did...but sure clearly lump me in the r-tard section. Who wulda known all those iso reads could some be construed as scummy..go figure. Scum are gonna be lovin D2.

[Benmage]

And your vote would be the most r-tarded of them all if you think about it.

Because you're the one that knows what your alignment is.

Not at this point. My agenda has shifted. When I die and flip town, hopefully the other maybe sensible townspeople lynch these r-tard scums.

[Benmage]

Everybody stop addressing Benmage for now. He is not being rational, and provoking him more will just devolve into a shouting match or a quicklynch, neither of which are helpful.

Your a hypocrite. Stop trying to score town points. Your vote is on me, and now your asking others to stop?? Surely you'd want them to vote me as well.

[Benmage]

Sigh. Benmage, I'd gues you know a AtE isn't going to help. So stop doing it.

I'd like if you made a case on me, confincing enough that I would selfvote.

Bullshit I'd make a case strong enough for a "town" person to self-vote let alone a scum.

I'm sure we could've moved this day into a proper discussion, if people actually bothered to read what I wrote, especially the conclusions...that objective is clearly lost.

[Benmage]

Jammer - the text-walls have very little to do with my vote.

so the reasoning was.......

[Benmage]

Who are the r-tard scum?

You.

[Benmage]

Got a case?

My official response is try again.

Your play is poor and scummy. Or take the case of "my gut".

[Benmage]

Got a case?

My official response is try again.

Your play is poor and scummy. Or take the case of "my gut".

Well then you should be voting for me shouldn't you?

Why aren't you?

Because the sheep in this game are blind. When I flip town, hopefully they will see the light.

[Benmage]

so the reasoning was.......

[Benmage]

So you are saying I am the sheep, Benmage?

If you flip town, I will not be jumping straight to Zach, jammer, OR Sens. I don't think others will, either. You need to calm down, and play rationally.

Don't you think a self-vote is a bit of an over-reaction to L-3?

I wouldn't of expected it from you.
And no.

[Benmage]

@benmage

Small question, why didn't you iso, zach?

He got more posts then the others you iso'd. But most posts of Zach are only one-liners. Shouldn't cost more time then the others. Any particulair reason you iso'd (scumpartner) SF and not Zach?

If I didn't state my reason before, I am basically voting you for bad arguments you use to put suspicion on me.

Zach had more posts 1. I thought I had a better grasp of his game 2. Initially was only going to do your iso as aforementioned 3. Finishing I desired to look more deeply and had some free time on my hands 3.5?. Wanted to do KmD, but ran out of time/got lazy/feared death 4.

[Benmage]

Please be on the right side of the line in your behaviour towards other people, guys. I've been lenient so far, but I do not want to have to deal with a dejkha situation here. Those of you who are traveling down that road are advised to turn aside before getting much worse.

Bygones be bygones camn. I apologize for being abrasive and for being too insulting. Let's move the game forward. (Now you gonna vote with me or not )

[Benmage]

Yaw, can you edit the vote-count to say that it's 7 to lynch, so people realize Benmage is at L-2? Thanks.

You gonna be satisfied with D2 when the other scum wake up vote, and another dimwitted blind sheep follows?

[Benmage]

I wouldn't of expected it from you.

Then who are these "sheep" you expect to lynch jammer, Sens, and Zach if you flip town?

You.

[Benmage]

So, if you are town, please play the game.

Oh but I am...this is fun for me, is it fun for you?

[Benmage]

Yeah, Zach the cop will tell you whose scum and day now right?

[Benmage]

Let's just lynch Benmage and move on. He's doing nothing for the town. It's ridiculous.

You lynch me, and you lose two town. Remember. You also have two players who have what 5 posts?? No, continue to ignore logic. Rush the lynch!

[Benmage]

1 request

When I do hit L-1, allow me some parting words(will be logical/wise/sensible statements regarding my play/todays events) Before the hammer.

[Benmage]

You'd have a point if you weren't voting for yourself. That destroys any credibility you thought you had.

I'm just asking for parting words, so the lynch isn't rushed you can take the credibility of the statements in anyway you'd like.

[Benmage]

Benmage - talk logically NOW. If you are town, then what you are doing now is trolling. Your lynch will definitely NOT help the town if you are a townie.

You know what i digress. I'll answer your questions. And while I do meditate on this. Think about my overall involvement into this game. Think logically that if I was scum, what would be my motives in these iso analysis. Why would I of picked jammer/SF/VPB (and the mini-posters). As scum why did I pick VPB, our kill target?? Would I think it make me look more town? Would I also gamble iso'ing a fellow scum in jammer or SF... TRY reading the iso/ especially the conclusions. See if there's anything of worth or logic in them geeze.

Consider such things more deeply before casting votes. This day is utterly disgusting.

[Benmage]

And for the love of god, please unvote yourself. You'll be doing yourself a bigger favor then you think.

zzzz for the moment

unvote

don't think i wont self-hammer when i've said my piece.

[Benmage]

@@Gieff

1. It seems people clearly ignored the

effort

I put into this game. SF’s post was comical. How he isn’t being lynched is beyond. How Zach possible interpreted it as a scum move is also beyond me. Of course jammer the person whose my case was closest to being against if against anyone would vote me. Gieff we haven’t seen eye to eye most of this game, you voting me is no surprise.
2. I did not take the focus on off. I wasn’t necessarily putting it on anyone. I wanted people to read my iso’s discuss on them and the conclusions, answer any remarks by the isoeees as I was beginning to do with jammer before being sidetracked and losing interest. When I mentioned the surge of idiocy I thought I was answering something in response to my new lynch preference which didn’t have you listed. Hence making people via the idiocy seem scummier than you.
3. I don’t fully understand this one.
4. Again I think this one could be answered under question two. Everyone can’t be scum, and so I go with who I feel is scummiest at the moment. Camn has switched her play, and if she continues to vote with me(town) why the hell would I lynch her.

[Benmage]

Why are you assuming that Benmage-scum implies jammer-scum or Sensfan-scum?

A question posing. If i'm scum, think of all my motives. Do you think I'd iso a fellow scum to seem balanced or not?

[Benmage]

And Benmage, I would appreciate an answer to my question about what you think of Gieff.

I can't give you a logical one at the moment. Too flustered/distracted to think about him rationally and recall his play. Maybe later.

[Benmage]

Look at that game from our point of view. (The ones you think are r-tard town at least.)

Our reaction to the way you came out of night is quite reasonable. I hope you can take a look and see that.

Look at my point of view. Look at what I just said to meditate on and consider. Look at my iso's my whole game. YOUR votes and come back to tell me how i'm scummy.

No i don't think your reaction was reasonable. I gave a plethora of things to discuss; to notice the conclusions and associates; to re-analysis these peoples plays and see if my logic was either sound or faulty and comment on it.... and you've all sidetracked it.

[Benmage]

Any comments Gieff, on what I've asked you to meditate on/reconsider as well as my own answering of your questions. Also perhaps an explicit statement regarding your initial vote and how you currently feel about it.

[Benmage]

Benmage:

To clarify my point #3:

You claimed that your vote to me was to show me that I was distracting from the Mastin wagon, but your behavior distracted from the Mastin-wagon just as much as my own did. Which makes me think that your stated reason was not your actual reason. Do you understand?

Indeed my play did distract from the Mastin wagon. But my distraction was relatively meaningless as you had already derailed the wagon. I was trying to knock some sense into to you to stop your side tangent and than, get everyone back on the Mastin wagon. Plus your overtly embellished statements inparticular regarding myself angered me and gave me the desire to see you hang. What stated reasons don’t you accept or what do you believe the

actual reason

was?

Again I thought the loss of surge on Gieff(you) was question my new lynch preference. If you recall from the end of D1 you were on that list. On D2 you were not. This difference in lynch preference was due in part to the spew of idiocy I had read, namely SF’s.

I think there is a large misconception that my attack on Gieff at the end of D1 was anything too substantial. It was done largely out of anger and frustration. Frustration at him derailing the mastin wagon on an issue of votes which could be argued for several players(illustrated in peoples willingness to vote him)…Anger through his inflated commentary and arguments.

Would I also gamble iso'ing a fellow scum in jammer or SF

I will ask again, Benmage: why are you assuming jammer or Sensfan is scum if you are? And why do you think that I should assume that? I'm curious to hear what jammer and Sens think of this, too.

Your are missing this point again. I am not assuming they are scum if I am. I was posing a question as an example for something for you and everyone to do. That when you vote you should consider all angles and logical deductions and rational possibilities or motives I (if scum) would be pursuing. The example question proposed here was that if you felt I was scum, and that my iso’s were scum-backed/motivated do you think I iso’d a fellow scum either SF or jammer. As illustrated under this interpretation of me being scum I had already iso’d VPB (the killed person of the day)….the question also hits the point that if you think it rational to iso the killed target to look town as you, gieff, felt was obvious. Do you also feel it obvious to of perhaps iso’d a fellow scum of mine to look town?

I do not want to lynch you right now, Benmage, and I did not at the time I cast my vote. It is not in the town's interest for me to say any more.

Bull. The towns interest is my interest (despite some of the distractions of the day). I’m asking you again:

Why did you ignore the plethora of opportunity to start discussion or analyze what I offered either in agreement of to illustrate my faults?
Why did you vote me, and yet ask others not to continue to pressure me? In addition why do you feel it necessary for your vote to remain while you say you don’t want to lynch me?

[Benmage]

Woot! I'm still alive, and VP Baltar is dead!

*unleashes the hounds* gogo Camn/Gieff.

Haha, doing iso's at night seems a bit foolish to me. Especially if, like i did, you believed there was a good chance you'd be NKed. That said, i'm grateful that you did the Jammer one on my request.

I had a lot of free time this weekend…got a little lazy toward the end, because I also feared I was going to get cap’d!

It is not in the town's interest for me to say any more.

KMD Gambit, huh?

@BattleMage:
Benmage said he was NOT particularly surprised that he was NOT nightkilled.
Do you think that is true?

It jives with his doing night isos as town...
but it doesn't jive with some of his phrasing early on.

Your thoughts?

Your so nitpicky it’s frustrating. I’m not particularly surprised as in I don’t know the mafia/their mentality...I don’t know who they’re gonna want to kill. ***Why do you think VPB was the killed person of the day? My fears are legitimate on the simple regards that if they picked the killed target at random it could’ve been me, and all my effort would’ve been wasted.

That's poor advice. If he self-votes/hammers in a newbie game, he will get banned, no?

Is this true? What’s the ruling in non-newbie games?

[Benmage]

@Gieff, alright so you wanted to see how I and alex would react to a wagon on me. Now that you've seen my re-action and now that alex's may yet be ruined. I'm surprised to felt so strongly with this stance than discussing what I put forth, but I shall continue. What do you think about my iso's now? Commentary? Disagreement? Anything in the conclusions worth to note?

[Benmage]

is there anything in the post that is actually relevant? lol

I'm sure i gave some opinions on your play. Wanna respond to those?

BM

The part regarding camn was serious. The question about self-voting/self hammering and being banned was serious. The unleashing of the hounds was actually subtly semi-serious because thats where camn and gieff started their accusations at my first post. My "oh wow"...you did a similar post and It'll be peculiar if they simply ignore you.

Your analysis of my day moves are dead on. I slowed toward the end because yes I too feared being NK’d. I thought Zach followed SF oddly as well and didn’t explain his vote. Camn and I can’t be scum buddies cause I’m town. Alright I swore, I got angry we are only human. I am town, I put a lot of effort into the night phase by reading all the iso’s during the games pause. I wanted to provide things to be reviewed and discussed today and was disgusted in the way it was all interpreted.

I just told you I

wouldn't

do that, though. And I just have one vote, and have had lots of trouble getting people to follow me.

Your death, if you are town, will do absolutely nothing. So, if you are town, please play the game.

Note that the same is true if he is scum, atm.

@Benmage - id have liked to have seen a conclusion to the VP Baltar one. It couldve been the seal on your alignment.

BM

Hindsight is 20/20 buddy. I wish I had now too—gg laziness. But the conclusion is like two posts after wherein It showed a distancing between Alex and jammer and that either could be possible lynch targets for today.

Yeah, Zach the cop will tell you whose scum and day now right?

Scum and Day??

BM

Youuu S.O.B ANY day…alright and = any.

BattleM = 2 BenM =1.5

You'd have a point if you weren't voting for yourself. That destroys any credibility you thought you had.

I'm just asking for parting words, so the lynch isn't rushed you can take the credibility of the statements in anyway you'd like.

I really dont understand the point of this request if you are town. Care to enlighten me?

I wanted to give my piece in regards to essentially the things I asked Gieff and everyone to meditate on. Basically to refocus and not just allow my isos, namely their conclusions to fall under the radar. I asked this request so one couldn’t get away with a quick hammer.

Lol, why do you not want him to self-hammer? Your vote IS on him at this point.

Word.

[Benmage]

Alex, I changed my mind about Benmage once he actually started being reasonable.

I'm getting a lot of mixed signals from him and it's frustrating.

I also think that Kai is most likely to be lurker scum out of all the lurkers.

You mean BCC?? i actually felt between him and Ceph that kai was less likely scum. DDD=null.

[Benmage]

Now BM does the same (despite he found this suspicious from Mastin's part) and you're all waggoning him at the speed of light? I agree it's weird. But let's take our time and discuss everyone's standings a bit more.

Can you quote where I was upset at Mastin NK speculating…I am failing to recall this. Also I wasn’t speculating about NK’s in my iso’s. Where did you think I was?

??? THe idiocy surge came after your posts...

What my iso’s?

My thoughts to Mastin's flip are...

Anger about his commitment to this game

A game he never got past page 4 on? Commitment…

-----------------------

We have Cephir, BCC/KAi and DDD Who are 3 People in this game that HAVENT contributed enough. They're unreadable. DDD even refuses to colaborate unless we ask him direct questions... For all we know they could be all scum.

-----------------------

QFT

[Benmage]

Serious question-why criticise Zach for rushing a lynch, when our good buddy Gieff was as guilty of this, if not more?

That is simply not true. Read my iso, and read Zach's. Zach says we should quick-lynch Benmage, and I say we shouldn't.

Yes you said the right answers but your actions spoke differently. Playing both sides? Wolf in sheeps clothing?

[Benmage]

I do not want to lynch you right now, Benmage, and I did not at the time I cast my vote. It is not in the town's interest for me to say any more.

Lmao. I'll call that bluff.

Vote: Gieff

Until such a time as you explain what you meant by this.

BM

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 33#1786733

That's fair enough. *nods*

Unvote, Vote: Zach

Time for you to explain why you were so anxious about Ben self-hammering, when you allegedly thought he was scum.

BM

I don't like Gieff's flippant reasoning.

[Benmage]

QFT. What do you mean by "flippant reasoning"? with the post you quoted?

I thought his reasoning for voting me and to see my reaction and alex’s is soft. I don’t understand how he felt this more important than commenting on my iso’s. He could’ve commented and then voted me and accomplished both. But to so readily write off my efforts seemed possibly purposeful.
Yes I was sitting at L-2…he told others not to vote for me?? Yet was waiting to see Alex’s response… there sounds like possible subtly coaxing/coaching in that statement. Plus what was he anticipating? Had alex voted me I’d be L-1…someone not wanting to see my lynched is fine with me sitting L-1? I don’t mean to insult everyone’s play with this statement…but I don’t think a non-thoughtful hammer is too farfetched even from a town player.

Had Benmage reached L-1, I would have unvoted. I was being quite cautious.

Zach and I were BOTH voting for Benmage. Zach suggested quicklynch, and I said no. Isn't it a little silly to pressure ME over the quicklynch, rather than Zach?



Still waiting on that case, Zach.

Gieff says the right thing again Doesn’t your gut just scream he’s scum! Wolf in sheeps clothing! Watch out!

But I AM suspicious of Benmage. His reaction to the wagon on him was ridiculous.

He has been inconsistent and untruthful.

Where?

??? THe idiocy surge came after your posts...

What my iso’s?

No. You removed me from your lynch-list. This happened before anybody else had the chance for any idiocy. You were NOT referring to Sensfans' posts yesterday when you said "idiocy." You were referring to the wagon on you, which happened AFTER you removed me from your lynch-list.

So - if I was second on your lynch-list yesterday, and the person who was in first is now dead, why am I completely off of it now?

Yes the new list comprised those who were in opposition to VPB. Because I strongly feel that jammer or alex could be scum and that VPB’s iso and my readings were quite telling. SF play was in their because of his idiocy(which I felt at the time even if I hadn’t said the word “idiocy” yet). That part on SF should be evident when I quoted his vote on me and my following reaction.

BM: It's a

two minute process

! If there's consistently 5 new posts every 2 minutes in this game, it's going too fast.

Vote Count:

Benmage (3): SensFan, GIEFF, jammer
GIEFF (1): Zachrulez
Cephrir (1): Battle Mage

Not Voting: alexhans, Cephrir, Debonair Danny DiPietro, blackcatcontract, camn, Kmd4390, SpyreX, Benmage

7 to lynch

I'd complain about the speed of this game, but my other 2 games are going WAY too slow. It's a nice change of pace.

word it's just cause were all trolling at the moment. It has its slow times too

[Benmage]

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

This strikes me as massively scummy.

Vote: Cephrir

I think a wagon here might actually achieve something.

BM

We sat on a mastin wagon for how long???I mean I'm willing to see a lurker go because they are useless but still.. I doubt this achieves much .

vote Cephrir

[Benmage]

In regards to BCC/Kai. Look at my iso on the bottom of jammer. I give a little insight. Both Kai's/Bcc's and Ceph's iso's are real small, read them. i did and gut is saying bcc is town, while ceph is unclear at best.

[Benmage]

Certainly, i dont wanna let lurker scum cruise to a victory.

Clearly.

QFT. What do you mean by "flippant reasoning"? with the post you quoted?

I thought his reasoning for voting me and to see my reaction and alex’s is soft. I don’t understand how he felt this more important than commenting on my iso’s. He could’ve commented and then voted me and accomplished both. But to so readily write off my efforts seemed possibly purposeful.
Yes I was sitting at L-2…he told others not to vote for me?? Yet was waiting to see Alex’s response… there sounds like possible subtly coaxing/coaching in that statement. Plus what was he anticipating? Had alex voted me I’d be L-1…someone not wanting to see my lynched is fine with me sitting L-1? I don’t mean to insult everyone’s play with this statement…but I don’t think a non-thoughtful hammer is too farfetched even from a town player.

It happened yesterday, if you believe Camn to be town. Personally i think she should be looked at again just for the hammer alone.

Huh, what happened yesterday? Her hammer was her following my voting pattern the whole day.

Alex, I changed my mind about Benmage once he actually started being reasonable.

This is BS. You claim to have voted for Benmage because no townie has that much content at the start of a day. This has nothing to do with Benmage's subsequent irrational behavior, the cessation of which should NOT have caused you to unvote, if you were being genuine.

True.

I don't want to give you the time to just make crap up. You said I should have been lynched yesterday, so I assume you have some good reasoning for that. Just a few brief points will be fine.

I've read you in iso, and you have nothing so far but the fact that I am voting for Benmage even though I think alex is likelier to be scum.

Zach and alex whould have been lynched yesterday?? Who else was on that list??

I did not like Kai's early vote on Jammer.

They way he left that game left me thinking too. Mainly because if I was scum in a game like this, I probably would have found it as difficult to post as he did.

At any rate. I support lynching the lurkers if they won't participate. I would suggest that we give them a set amount of time to post something and then run them up if they fail to post any content within that period of time.

Because D1, the night phase etc etc wasn't long enough ?!!??!

I believe somebody else pointed out the way you seem to be anti-Benmage, but havent deigned to join the wagon. Waiting to drop another stupid hammer?

Oooo sneaky.

You have already decided I am scum..

I won’t lie I get overall scum vibes just from your game in its entirety...maybe it’s just your style, but that’s might gut read.

[Benmage]

EBWOP might=my

[Benmage]

Certainly, i dont wanna let lurker scum cruise to a victory.

Clearly.

QFT. What do you mean by "flippant reasoning"? with the post you quoted?

I thought his reasoning for voting me and to see my reaction and alex’s is soft. I don’t understand how he felt this more important than commenting on my iso’s. He could’ve commented and then voted me and accomplished both. But to so readily write off my efforts seemed possibly purposeful.
Yes I was sitting at L-2…he told others not to vote for me?? Yet was waiting to see Alex’s response… there sounds like possible subtly coaxing/coaching in that statement. Plus what was he anticipating? Had alex voted me I’d be L-1…someone not wanting to see my lynched is fine with me sitting L-1? I don’t mean to insult everyone’s play with this statement…but I don’t think a non-thoughtful hammer is too farfetched even from a town player.

Well you press her. I guess I'll note. But for now I don't think it the worst move in the world. Someone has to hammer everyday right...would you not of hammered Mastin yesterday?

[Benmage]

Screw you battle, alright fail quote post. -.5 for me

BattleM=2 BenM=1

[Benmage]

I don't know I'll give the .5 back than.

But yes, these lurkers first. Ceph first. We'll see about who to go for following that.

[Benmage]

Screw you battle, alright fail quote post. -.5 for me

BattleM=2 BenM=1

lol sarnath'd yet again. Whatever happens in this game, i wanna continue this BATTLE across the site. The lol's are far greater than i expected xD

BM

This is yet a single thread! A single battle whomever the winner, the war will rage on!

(On a side note...if someone *cough* me *cough* hypothetically caught another being an..hmm...r-tard in another thread, and posted...would the mod of that thread go berserk?)...i don't have anything in mind...just curious.

[Benmage]

You have already decided I am scum..

I won’t lie I get overall scum vibes just from your game in its entirety...maybe it’s just your style, but that’s might gut read.

This was directed at Zach, not at you, Benmage.

But while we're on the subject: you put almost no pressure my way yesterday up until I said it seemed like you, camn, and Zach were very against an alex lynch. And then you exploded.

I know it was at Zach, but I just wanted to share a similar sentiment that your play gives me scum vibes. I watched you without putting pressure, this doesn't negate sentiment or feelings even if I didn't voice them. I had other people I preferred to of focus'd on D1. We can only do so much each day right.

I exploded because you overtly embellished and clearly misrepresented (at the very least myself) in trying to prove your point, and also pointlessly derailed the wagon.

[Benmage]

I'll be home in about an hour. See you then.

Huh?

[Benmage]

^^^Damnit DDD posts well, if only more often!

Fine Gieff, you’ve continued to push a blatant mistake.

camn. I apologize for being abrasive and for being too insulting.

2) I

am

anti-Benmage as a PERSON.

[Benmage]

Benmage - you asked me to point out where you have been untruthful. Here it is - the "idiocy" issue:

My interest in Gieff has subsided only because of the new surge of idiocy.

Benmage claimed that he took the focus off of me because of "this new surge in idiocy." Yet he took the focus off me BEFORE anybody else posted on Day 2, so this is obviously false.

When I mentioned the surge of idiocy I thought I was answering something in response to my new lynch preference which didn’t have you listed. Hence making people via the idiocy seem scummier than you.

Here, you claim that "people" (plural) were idiotic on day 1, and therefore all of them surpassed me in scumminess.

But then you later tried to claim:

Yes the new list comprised those who were in opposition to VPB. Because I strongly feel that jammer or alex could be scum and that VPB’s iso and my readings were quite telling. SF play was in their because of his idiocy(which I felt at the time even if I hadn’t said the word “idiocy” yet). That part on SF should be evident when I quoted his vote on me and my following reaction.

Now the idiocy just refers to Sensfan?

You do NOT call Sensfan an idiot (or alex or jammer). But you DO call everyone on your wagon "r-tards" and "morons" and "sheep."

It is obvious that when you said "idiocy" you were referring to the wagon on you - not on any behavior that occurred yesterday.

Anybody who doubts this, please iso-read Benmage from his 140 through 144.

You got caught trying to justify removing me from your lynch-list with something that occurred AFTER you did so, but instead of admitting a mistake, you lied again to try to cover it up. I don't know why a townie would do this.

Jesus you’re making mountains out of a grain of sand. I don’t understand how you don’t get it or draw these conclusions, but lets break it down:

1.When the very first statement by jammer asking why I failed to be attacking Gieff I thought this was because I didn’t reference Gieff in my

NEW

lynch preference. Is this a wrong assumption of mine?
1a. I did not mention Gieff in my new lynch preference because of the connections I wanted to continue to discuss, and the fact that I believe that VPB being innocent made alex and jammer much more likely to be scum. I added SF actually purposely between jamme rand alex because his post reeked of stupidity. I also disliked Zach’s zero reasoning vote, but again we can only go in so many directions.

2. First, where did I claim people (plural) where idiotic on D1? (I Certainly don’t doubt this...but I don’t see where I’d of voted someone for it or listed them under my lynch preference…please remind me.) Or is this another misrep...I mean mistake.
2a. Now when mentioning SF’s idiocy where do I rule out others?

3. Lol? I know I wasn’t referring to anyone being idiots yesterday. I was referring to my lynch wagon…duh? Ty…the point of this?

4. You’re weird.
4a. I didn’t get caught removing you from my lynch preference, other people climbed the later. I’ve been stating these same things and being consistent every time. If one person climbs the scum later they knock another one down. That person doesn’t become less scummier, just in comparison. When I made the new preference for D2, you were an idiot yes, but SF was more of an idiot and jammer/alex were scummy. How many more times can I spell this out for you???!?!?

Now you getting caught up with the semantics of people being plural and idiocy referring to just SF or all of you r-tards is just fucking ridiculous. I’m not going to remember every damn word I say or review every post I make to make sure all my tenses and references are accurate, so go hump a different tree.

Also, what do you think about Benmage's "idiocy" lie?

I'm kinda lost here.

Yeah no shit. Not you, but jesus Gieff is annoying. But I “lied” yet when he lied…oh it was a mistake… he complaining about me using a word incorrectly when referring to two past actions geeeeze. Desperately trying to pushing nothingness to seem like something…mmmhmm check plz.

@Battle Mage when Ceph lynching is done I’m voting Gieff!

1. Somebody asked Benmage why I was no longer on his lynch list.
2. Benmage said it was because of all "the new idiocy."
3. It is very clear, based on context, that Benmage was referring to the wagon on him.
4. The wagon on him happened AFTER he removed me from his lynch list, so this could not possibly have caused him to remove me.
5. Instead of correcting this mistake, he continued to lie, claiming that the "idiocy" was really the iso-posts he'd quoted from day 1.

I don’t even get point…where/when did I claim that??

God damn I can’t believe I’m about to waste my time with this but OKK:

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:20 am Post subject: 1098

Anyway, I missed your conclusion. Who is scum?

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:24 am Post subject: 1099

The overall conclusion was never gotten to as i didn't even get to all the iso's I had wanted to. This is just some personal iso insight and for things to look at and note connections.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: 1100

Benmage, another time, what players do you suspect most?

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: 1102

Vote: Benmage

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: 1103

Vote: Benmage

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: 1104

Vote SensFan

because oh my god, you fucking suck. It was a long weekend and I didn't have much going on, nor was I in any active games till sunday. It wasn't overnight.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: 1109

New Lynch preference for today:
jammer
SensFan
alex

^^There that breaks it down from where jammer first asked me who I felt was scum to where I created my new lynch preference. As you can see Zach and SF have already acted poorly in voting me. Gieff and Camn skepticism in my town play added to my frustration and views of you all as “idiots”

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: 1111

Vote Benmage

^^that’s the whole post…no reasoning.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: 1114

Vote: Benmage

4th on wagon, woohoo.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: 1114

Can you also explain why you lost interest in gieff as a lynch suddenly?

******^^Same post 1114… Here is where the question is posed by jammer regarding gieff not being on my lynch preference. Again I question how this is a sudden change? Okay it is a change from the lynch preference ending in D1 but that was clearly because Gieff threw that idiotic tangent at us at the end with false(mistake) arguments. How isn’t that obvious? ****No one commented when D1 lynch preference no longer included camn. I think this is a clear scum side-track.

Clearly this is where rational thought begins to leave my scene and is filled with anger and frustration as illustrated:
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: 1115

No townie has that much content ready to post at daybreak.

lol fine fuck everyone u guys are dumb.

Unvote

vote Benmage

^^best post of the game? Lol...but see I said dumb, still haven’t seen that word idiocy.

Cont.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:06 pm Post subject: 1118

Jammer does pose an interesting question though.

What is with the sudden loss of interest in Gieff as a lynch?

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: 1119

Jammer does pose an interesting question though.

What is with the sudden loss of interest in Gieff as a lynch?

He was never interested in a GIEFF-lynch. It was a chainsaw-vote to defend alex.

Meh, sorta.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: 1124

Ick, self vote...

Yeah your an idiot.

^I think this is the first idiot D2 statement of mine.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: 1126

Jammer does pose an interesting question though.

What is with the sudden loss of interest in Gieff as a lynch?

I was illustrating a point to Gieff. Actually a few points. One he was sidetracking the mastin wagon on a useless tangent. Siting that others were willing to vote alex. I was illustrating that others were also willing to vote several different people including himself.

My interest in Gieff has subsided only because of the new surge of idiocy.

DING DING DING the winner post. “new surge of idiocy” yada yada yada etc etc. The new surge of idiocy, references ALL of D2! And CLEARLY refers to why he isn’t listed on my lynch preference IN ADDitiION the D1 attack on gieff was not the strongest. Only proving the point clearly stated here. Post 1126!.


Cont.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: 1169

OK, Benmage. I tried to talk sense into you, but you just aren't having any. Here is why I think you are scum.

1. He cares about this game.
   Benmage obviously cares about this game - he spent a lot of time making those posts. Yet he is now pretending not to care, and to WANT to die. I don't think a town player would do this - this fits more with a scum player (who still cares) pretending not to care in order to look townie.
   
2. He lies
   . Benmage claimed that he took the focus off of me because of "this new surge in idiocy." Yet he took the focus off me BEFORE anybody else posted on Day 2, so this is obviously false.
   
3. His play is illogical
   . He claimed that the reason he voted for me yesterday was to stop me from distracting the Mastin-wagon. Yet the method he employed to bring focus back to the Mastin-wagon was to remove TWO VOTES from the wagon, and try to get another player lynched. Benmage's motives for voting me are obviously NOT what he claimed they were.
   
4. He is inconsistent in his suspicions
   . Benmage not only ignored me, but also removed his focus from camn, whom he also claimed to find scummy on D1.

Benmage - talk logically NOW. If you are town, then what you are doing now is trolling. Your lynch will definitely NOT help the town if you are a townie.

And Zach, there is no need at all for a quick-lynch.

****See this is FALSE THIS IS WHERE You are a LIAR GIEFF. I did not take the focus on you before anyone posted on D2. AS SHOWN in the TIMEFRAME. THE FOCUS SHIFTED to the scummier players and the idiotic/poor play. THE LYNCH Preference IS WAY INTO D2. SO go home you terrible terrible LIAR.

@point three my motives are clear via

post 1126

Oh wow, point 4 he does mention D1 and camn...see I can’t remember everything.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: 1179

@@Gieff

2. I did not take the focus on off. I wasn’t necessarily putting it on anyone. I wanted people to read my iso’s discuss on them and the conclusions, answer any remarks by the isoeees as I was beginning to do with jammer before being sidetracked and losing interest. When I mentioned the surge of idiocy I thought I was answering something in response to my new lynch preference which didn’t have you listed. Hence making people via the idiocy seem scummier than you.

Oh look. There’s me being consistent again. And clarifying if there were any discrepancies or mistakes. Clearly not lying. You sir, are the liar.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: 1190

Benmage:

To clarify my point #3:

You claimed that your vote to me was to show me that I was distracting from the Mastin wagon, but your behavior distracted from the Mastin-wagon just as much as my own did. Which makes me think that your stated reason was not your actual reason. Do you understand?

What "new surge of idiocy" were you referring to in Post 1126?

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: 1200

Benmage:

To clarify my point #3:

You claimed that your vote to me was to show me that I was distracting from the Mastin wagon, but your behavior distracted from the Mastin-wagon just as much as my own did. Which makes me think that your stated reason was not your actual reason. Do you understand?

Indeed my play did distract from the Mastin wagon. But my distraction was relatively meaningless as you had already derailed the wagon. I was trying to knock some sense into to you to stop your side tangent and than, get everyone back on the Mastin wagon. Plus your overtly embellished statements inparticular regarding myself angered me and gave me the desire to see you hang. What stated reasons don’t you accept or what do you believe the

actual reason

was?

Again I thought the loss of surge on Gieff(you) was question my new lynch preference. If you recall from the end of D1 you were on that list. On D2 you were not. This difference in lynch preference was due in part to the spew of idiocy I had read, namely SF’s.

I think there is a large misconception that my attack on Gieff at the end of D1 was anything too substantial. It was done largely out of anger and frustration. Frustration at him derailing the mastin wagon on an issue of votes which could be argued for several players(illustrated in peoples willingness to vote him)…Anger through his inflated commentary and arguments.

^^^OMG more consistency, damn I am better at this game than I thought.


Cont.
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: 1246

But I AM suspicious of Benmage. His reaction to the wagon on him was ridiculous. He has been inconsistent and untruthful.

Another lie/mistake, you are full of them Gieff. I’ve been nothing but honest and consistent. The total opposite of what you keep spewing.

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: 1249

??? THe idiocy surge came after your posts...

What my iso’s?

No. You removed me from your lynch-list. This happened before anybody else had the chance for any idiocy. You were NOT referring to Sensfans' posts yesterday when you said "idiocy." You were referring to the wagon on you, which happened AFTER you removed me from your lynch-list.

So - if I was second on your lynch-list yesterday, and the person who was in first is now dead, why am I completely off of it now?

Lol, must I answer this again. Scummier people climbed the ladder! (there’s more too, but jesus I am tired)

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: 1257

But I AM suspicious of Benmage. His reaction to the wagon on him was ridiculous.

He has been inconsistent and untruthful.

Where?

??? THe idiocy surge came after your posts...

What my iso’s?

No. You removed me from your lynch-list. This happened before anybody else had the chance for any idiocy. You were NOT referring to Sensfans' posts yesterday when you said "idiocy." You were referring to the wagon on you, which happened AFTER you removed me from your lynch-list.

So - if I was second on your lynch-list yesterday, and the person who was in first is now dead, why am I completely off of it now?

Yes the new list comprised those who were in opposition to VPB. Because I strongly feel that jammer or alex could be scum and that VPB’s iso and my readings were quite telling. SF play was in their because of his idiocy(which I felt at the time even if I hadn’t said the word “idiocy” yet). That part on SF should be evident when I quoted his vote on me and my following reaction.

Wow, Look at me. Being more consistent. Trying to actually be helpful, to clear what I think was a confused mind. Not realizing Gieff is just trying to side-track me like a broken record.

And….i think I just past post 1309…which is where this crazy long ass thread starts. My apologize, but this had to be done. My vote is going on to Gieff his lies/sidetracking must come to end.

Unvote Vote Gieff

[Benmage]

Two things I stumpled upon when doing that previous post that I wanted to rehash incase the got overlooked in this speedy day.

1:

Everybody stop addressing Benmage for now. He is not being rational, and provoking him more will just devolve into a shouting match or a quicklynch, neither of which are helpful.

Your a hypocrite. Stop trying to score town points. Your vote is on me, and now your asking others to stop?? Surely you'd want them to vote me as well.

So while you kept your vote on me Gieff, and wanted to see Alex’s reactions, and yet asked everyone not to address me. Again, what were you expecting him to do?


2:

I'd like if you made a case on me, confincing enough that I would selfvote.

When in the history of cases in this game has anyone convinced someone so much that they’re scum. That they’ve been playing such a scummy game and have been so obviously scum the whole game that the case is so strong that the person is convinced enough to selfvote. That they'll forgo their own pm from the mod and believe the case. I don’t give a fuck, no case is going to convince me to self vote if i'm town. Yeah maybe anger and frustration as shown today….but a case, geeze. This is such a scum tell its ridiculous. After gieff today its you tomorrow jammer. So you better kill me tonight, cuz I’ll get the third one soon enough.

[Benmage]

Gieff you have clearly lied in post 1169 point 2 where you said I took the focus off “BEFORE” anyone posted D2. You sir are a liar. Do you deny this?

3. Lol? I know I wasn’t referring to anyone being idiots yesterday. I was referring to my lynch wagon…duh? Ty…the point of this?

OK, so you do admit, FINALLY, after your third explanation (the first two of which were lies), that the "idiocy" was referring to the wagon. Which was obvious from the start. You can hide it in a mega post and pretend not to understand the point, but you lied all the same, and obviously so.

Where DID I deny this? Point it out. Continue to spew your false statements. I broke it down chronologically, no one will believe your lies any more.

This isn't semantics at all - it's a blatant lie. Idiocy has NOTING to do with why you put me down your scum-list, yet you claimed that it was the ONLY reason.

Post 1114 the question of you being off the list. Post 1126 you are getting caught on the word only that I referred to you subsiding off my list. But I’ve already stated why jammer and alex were on the list because they were scummy via post 1109 clearly chronologically FIRST. So SF took your spot on the list because of his idiocy.

This is actually really fun for me trying to watch you squirm out of this and continuing to lie.

[Benmage]

I also continued and continued and continued to clarify. Revisit post 1200. I've been nothing but sincere consistent honest and earnest. Your time is running out.

[Benmage]

Post 1109 was your lynch-list - you put in jammer, Sensfan, and alex. At that time, the only person of the three voting for you was Sensfan. What does idiocy have to do with putting jammer and alex above me on your lynch-list?

NOTHING

.

Do you read what you quote when you say nothing? Look at the link. Look at post 1109. It states why I have alex and jammer on the list.

[Benmage]

New lynch preference:
Gieff

[Benmage]

you caught me lying. You're right.

And I have not lied

See. You are inconsistent in your own post. How can anyone take what you say to be truthful?

I already have pointed it out. I will do so again.


1st explanation:

When I mentioned the surge of idiocy I thought I was answering something in response to my new lynch preference which didn’t have you listed. Hence making people via the idiocy seem scummier than you.

2nd explanation:

Yes the new list comprised those who were in opposition to VPB. Because I strongly feel that jammer or alex could be scum and that VPB’s iso and my readings were quite telling. SF play was in their because of his idiocy(which I felt at the time even if I hadn’t said the word “idiocy” yet). That part on SF should be evident when I quoted his vote on me and my following reaction.

3rd (and correct) explanation:

3. Lol? I know I wasn’t referring to anyone being idiots yesterday. I was referring to my lynch wagon…duh? Ty…the point of this?

All three points look quite consistent to me. I fail to see your entire point, or what you are trying to prove.

You know the drill, Benmage. I want to see reasons for voting me.

I’ve indulged you quite enough, despite how torturous it has been and I’m done. For you, you get “my gut” If anyone else needs convincing as to why you are scum I will surely aide them. You get nothing.