I wrote this yesterday (and saved it in my notes), but I wanted to see how alexhans responded to BM's attack before I posted it, as my attack on BM also defends alex. Now that alex has defended himself, I will post the rest of my attack on BM:
BM, you claim that the case you made in
Post 113 was enough for you to be so convinced that alex is scum (and so convinced he wouldn't defend his buddy so blatantly), that you are ALSO convinced Mastin is town. I don't think this is likely. Your case in 113 does not look like enough evidence for such surety. In order, your points are (with my resopnses after):
Alex wanted to use player nicknames
. This is null.Alex complimented Mastin on an obvious assumption.
Looks like buddying, mildly suspicious.Any motive given to a scumkill is WIFOM.
This also applies to Mastin, to a GREATER extent than to alex, which makes it a very poor reason to unvote the former to vote the latter.Alex is desperate to push the 4 scum theory, yet town should be cautious.
This is incorrect – it is actually MORE cautious to leave the door open to the possibility of 4 scum.Alex asks rhetorical questions (you phrased this as a rhetorical question – isn’t that odd?).
This is somewhat valid, based on your later explanations of why scum would like to ask rhetorical questions. Alex agrees with Baltar that newer players would have less say in a scum kill - you think this is a convenient because alex is saying that HE wouldn't direct a scum kill.
I don’t see this.Alex tries to appear pro-town, but isn't really saying anything.
I disagree - this is protown, if alex really believes it is pro-town to speculate on the nightkill. I don't think it is protown, but I see no reason to be so sure that alex-town would feel the same way. Alex claimed that speculating about night-kills NOW reduces the WIFOM involved in doing so. BM thinks this is wrong.
I disagree. There is still WIFOM, but I do agree with alex that there is less WIFOM than there would be later in the game, as people will try to analyze the way the dead player interacted with others, which is not possible for the first kill. Alex coached Zach.
This is not coaching, this is cautioning, which you claim is protown. Alex says that players who are first to post and post a lot are pro-town - BM disagrees.
Viewing Mastin as pro-town is not necessarily scummy. Alex believes Mastin destroyed the RVS - BM disagrees (and presents a falsely binary choice).
Viewing Mastin as pro-town is not necessarily scummy. Alex "shat a brick" when Mastin got wagoned.
Agreed - this was very fishy. Alex defended Mastin in all-caps - BM says this means Alex KNOWS Mastin is town.
I agree it is fishy, but I don't agree this means Alex KNOWS Mastin is town. Alex says he likes Mastin's theory - BM says it is not a pro-town theory.
Viewing Mastin (or his theories) as pro-town is not necessarily scummy.
For five of your fourteen points (2, 3, 10, 11, 14), you use alex's agreement/following of Mastin to prove that alex is scum, yet at the same time you claim this means that Mastin is town. This makes little sense, and I'm sure you see why - if two players are making the same claims, how can that make one of them scum and the other town? I agree that the all-caps thing was over the top, but if alex has so often said "You're right, Mastin" and "I agree, Mastin" then is the extremity of the all-caps outburst enough to really rid yourself of ALL suspicion of Mastin, assuming alex-scum? I don't think a townie would be as sure as you are, especially after having VOTED for Mastin. Also, your claim that your vote for Mastin was random is obviously false. In
Post 77, you ask camn why she didn't let Mastin defend himself, which shows that in your mind, Mastin needed defending, which is NOT the case for a random vote.
As far as your other points, only 5 and 12/13 make sense to me. All you really have on alex is that he freaked out about Mastin, which I agree is scummy, but if that's really the main reason you had for wanting to "serious-wagon" him, it makes little sense to completely ignore Mastin, and assume that he is town.
So, to sum up, you claim that your case makes you SO sure that alex is scum that you are willing to make a complete 180 on Mastin, and say that he is town, with a LOT of confidence. Yet as I think I have shown here, many of the points you brought up are not scummy - they are just observations. And as I also think I have shown here, you
LIED
when you said your vote for Mastin was random, to allow yourself to perform the mental gymnastics required to force this case on alex.
Normally, I am all for early aggression, but not when it is this inconsistent, or supported by lying about the intentions behind your vote for Mastin.
--------------
Camn:
If you truly think I am scum (enough to
revote me in large font), you sure are being lackadaisical in your attempt to lynch me, which was NOT your style of play from my read of your past games when you were town. It seems to me that you made your vote so large so that you LOOK angry, LOOK like you find me scummy, and LOOK like you want to lynch me. Yet actions speak louder than words, even when those words are in 18-point font.
I called your joke-vote for me toothless, and this one strikes me as just as gummy. I note that once again (as you did in post 159), you ignored my answers to your questions, as well as my additional questions for you. If you truly found me so suspicious, why would you IGNORE my posts about you?
That is
not
the behavior of a pro-town player trying to lynch a player she finds scummy. That is the behavior of a scummy player trying to
look
like she wants to lynch a player she is
pretending
to find scummy.
------
My posting rate and questions are outpacing others' posting rates and their ability to answer questions. As I don't want these questions to go unanswered, I will post them again here:
- Post 50:
Sens
, I take it your vote for jammer is semi-random OMGUS, and has little to do with my or Kairyuu's reasons for voting him. Is that correct? If you do not want to answer, could you please just say "I refuse to answer" instead of ignoring it for the third time?
- Post 107:
Mastin
, I assume you will respond when you return from V/LA, but this should ensure you don't miss it.
- Post 144 (and this post):
Battle Mage
, please respond.
- Post 159 (and this post):
camn
, please respond.