Mafia 89: Revenge (Game Over)

[CF Riot]

Hey all. I'm replacing PerArdua. Don't need that link now I guess,

mod

. =P Exhausted right now, but I will do a read through ASAP.

Votecount:
Lowell - 4 (super random dude, armlx, MonkeyMan576, Vi)
MonkeyMan576 - 3 (Sun Tzu, Knight of Cydonia, magisterrain)
killa seven - 1 (Jebus)
magisterrain - 1 (Kmd4390)
Sun Tzu - 1 (kuribo)
Not voting: killa seven, PerArdua, alvinz95, -TinVision-, ahaad, Shanba, BridgesAndBaloons, Light-kun, Azrael001, mykonian, Lowell
With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch.

[CF Riot]

Check in post. Still catching up. Apologize for being a bad replacement. Page 16.

Votecount:
magisterrain - 10 (Kmd4390, Lowell, Light-kun, MonkeyMan576, popsofctown, kuribo, magisterrain, Mafiaplayer, Vi, Azrael001)
MonkeyMan576 - 2 (Sun Tzu, Knight of Cydonia)
Lowell - 1 (armlx)
-TinVision- - 1 (Shanba)
BridgesAndBaloons - 1 (magisterrain)
Not voting: killa seven, CF Riot, alvinz95, -TinVision-, Yosarian2, BridgesAndBaloons
With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch

[CF Riot]

The following people are dead:
killa seven, Cop

This is lol.

MonkeyMan576, Mafia Roleblocker

And this is good shooting.

I'd bet my left nut you're scum.

The only reason this is quoted is because I'm in the other game, where he bet his right nut, and I thought this was funny.

Sorry I didn't get a post in before the lynch. I've read up to page 20, and I think I'm just going to stick with that unless someone references something I didn't read.

I'm going to

Vote: Light-kun

, based on how he seems overly concerned with his appearance. Things like

Given the presented ideas by Azrael, I think that he warrants another vote. Much more so than Killa's vote, considering his decent number of posts this game. If he lurks, I will vote him and his general null telliness. *Shrugs*

fit his play for most of D1. It looks like he's

trying

to be nonchalant.

Next to this, what armlx is driving at is another valid avenue.

Myk, Kmd was town.

[CF Riot]

Oh, I was assuming the K7 kill was vig powered. That's why I thought it was funny. I know why a vig would target K7, and the fact that he flipped cop is sort of a "d'oh!" moment. I had forgotten that Monkey claimed watcher or w/e, but I was amazed that he wasn't lynched D1 and he was my main suspect coming into today. Therefore I considered killing him to be protown (good shooting), although I see you point about the shooter himself possibly being anti-town.

Myk, I don't disagree that Kmd looked townish. I misread what you said earlier. I thought "lucky for us he was scum" was referring to Kmd. I now see you meant Monkey.

[CF Riot]

@Vi, no no no, he bet his

left

nut in this game and his

right

nut in the other game I

am

was in.

If I were putting people on a scale of 1-10 of scumminess, with 10 being obvscum and 1 being conf. town, I'd put MP at 9.5. I think it's okay to leave targets that are this obvious up to vigs to take care of though.

I think Light is still the (2nd) scummiest of those actually participating. My earlier vote was missed.

Vote: Light

Yagami.

[CF Riot]

Oh yes. Light is scum. This last post is squirming when his vote is questioned. He's all, "*shrug* Well the only reason I voted Jebus is cause I didn't have anything better to do. *shrug* It really doesn't mean anything. *shrug* All my FoS's don't really mean anything. *shrug* What I do in this game doesn't mean anything. You should all just ignore me. *shrug*"

My reason for saying MP was a good vig target is because I figured a wagon on him would be almost completely unchallenged, and I don't think anyone would back him up or question said wagon. And if everyone does the same thing, you don't have anything to judge people on. This has been said already, in different words. I think it's logical.

I also agreed with the FoS on Azrael for jumping off the MP wagon right after MP's testimony of "scum are on my wagon". His explanation is mehful.

[CF Riot]

@Light:

This

is where I first voted you. The reason given is you look fake. Your repeated *shrug*'s and the tone of all your posts make it seem like you are actively trying to look like you are uninterested and uninvolved, which would suggest to the reader to not take you very seriously. I think the incentive behind this would be to appear active to avoid lurker votes, while at the same time shuck responsibility for your actions. Vi recognizes this sentiment and agrees in

this post

, putting it in his own words and adding his own accusations. All these opinions are repeated and reinforced by your more recent actions in

this post

, which you have dismissed on the grounds that it came after the actual vote, which I find to be irrelevant.
----
I actually disagree with the recent spat between armlx and Azrael. I see Azrael's side, and I actually think it's not that different from my own opinion, which armlx seemed to approve of. I don't think armlx is scum for it though, so I also disagree with Pops's case.

[CF Riot]

"SCUM! YOU LOOK FAKE!"
"I'm...not...?"
"THAT'S FAKE! DIE SCUM! YOU'RE FAKE!"

No one is doing that. You were crying because you didn't think I laid all my thoughts out nicely enough for you, so I repeated myself.

CFR, how can you not suspect Armlx if you have similar views to Az's, which Arm approves of when he doesn't approve of Az's...?

Because I don't think he's scum. What's the motive? I also think I don't fully understand arm's opinion yet, so I'm sort of holding judgment for that reason as well.
----
Myk I understand your view on Light, but I'm not ruling out 2 scum groups, 3rd party, or traitors.

[CF Riot]

I am saying that your primary argument is "You seem fake" and I really don't know how to respond to this... So, since I am going to deduce that there is no right answer

(like when one is accused of being too townie)

, I am going to ignore it.

I know you'll come up with something.

1.)

Why do you feel the need to add this?

2.)

Why do you automatically assume I'm scum trying to frame you, and not misguided townie? Do you assume attacking you is a scum tell?

So are we lynching rather than Vig'ing MP now?

Must you ask permission for from town?

This is right though.
----

I think his insistence on leaving MP for the night is weird, and the strength of his feeling could be read either way. I'm still not 100% on MafiaPlayer as scum, but it looks more likely as the day goes on. I still prefer a Lowell lynch, and await his return with baited

beartraps

breath.

If you're not sold on MP, then between MM and Lowell there's got to be at least 1 other scum. (Most likely more in this group.) I appreciate you being focused on your target, but I think you should at least be following the discussion. Surely you have other considerations about possible scum floating around.

Please Prod: Sun Tzu.

[CF Riot]

Just because there isn't a good defense for an accusation doesn't mean that accusation is fallacious. If someone says, "I'm a sane cop and I got a guilty on (X)," then for (X), there is no right answer. This doesn't mean the cop's argument is invalid. Now this is a gross exaggeration of our situation, but point is sound. You saying there's no response to give to my accusation does not mean my accusation is flawed. I actually don't see anything about my statement that resembles the too-townie fallacy, or any fallacy for that matter.

Secondly, the fact that there are no confirmed town is granted, but on the same token there are no confirmed scum either. You didn't really answer my question at all. The colored statement implies that you think I'm scum, and I'm manufacturing false scum-tells against you. I want to know why you believe this more likely than me being town and just being "wrong". (Don't let my vote at the bottom of this post confuse you. You're not off the hook yet.)
----
@Az, I think it's because in general, policy vigging is better than policy lynching, as policy lynches yield less information than regular lynches. However, I think in our case it's gotten to the point where MP has been so discussed and the issue is so drawn out, that lynching him at this point

would

yield some valid info for the next day. In fact I think a vig would be more informed tonight if we do lynch MP. I admit this is sort of a 180 from my earlier posts today. I think recent events justify it.

Unvote. Vote: MafiaPlayer

[CF Riot]

@Shanba, I think Lowell's alignment is related to MP's alignment, but I don't think MP's alignment is related to Lowell's. Do you agree? If so, would you also agree that this lends merit to MP flipping first? Does that wording even make sense to you?

Votecount:
Mafiaplayer - 5 (Yosarian2, mykonian, Light-kun, CF Riot, Lowell)
Lowell - 3 (armlx, Knight of Cydonia, Shanba)
armlx - 2 (popsofctown, Azrael001)
Not voting: Vi, alvinz95, The Central Scrutinizer, Sun Tzu, BridgesAndBaloons, Mafiaplayer, kuribo

With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[CF Riot]

Vi rules. I totally listened to all three of those. If I ever find out about a rave going on in some club themed after a giant pinball machine, I'm so calling you up. Also, did you pick up the "----" thing from me, or had you been doing that already?

Light 979 is missing the point. Vi's latest case rules. I don't really see why you're voting Myk over Light though. I don't see the scumminess in what's been brought against Myk, and at the very least, the charges against Light are way better.

Light or MP today. I'd be thrilled with either. I actually would prefer Light if some people would read the case and lend their support.

[CF Riot]

BS! He's a liar! String him up. Also, forgot to mention, what is this crap?

When you have my role, you have to love loltastic

What were you trying to pull with this one?

[CF Riot]

Light > MP >>> Azrael. Roughly in that order. I don't have a very definitive scum-read on Lowell, but the fact that opinion of him is so split amongst the town makes it seem like he'd be an okay lynch, as his alignment would be a tell on everyone left.

I'm glad Myko's got his old avatar back.

(

+5

)

[CF Riot]

My list has changed to MafiaPlayer = Light-kun = Azrael >>> Lowell. Enough talk for today.

Get
-
the
-
Rope!

Get
-
the
-
Rope!

[CF Riot]

It takes 9 to lynch, and we have 7 people not voting. 8 if you count Azrael twice like the vote count.

[CF Riot]

Actually, I am suspicious of CFRiot for his willingness to lynch pretty much anyone, except a few select people.

Har har! 3 people I've named as good lynches. 1 as acceptable. How many FoS's and votes have you thrown around today?

cfRiot hasn't been doing it, but he hasn't been scummy.

??? Speechless when I read this. I thought about looking up the quotes from you FoSing me or voting me, whichever it was, but I didn't need to because you say you're suspicious of me

in this very post

.

Will vote/hammer any of the people I mentioned. Myko who's #2 for you after MP?

Mod, Prod: TCS, Alabaska J, Sun Tzu, B&B, and MafiaPlayer.

[CF Riot]

cfRiot . . . hasn't been scummy.

I found his case.

[CF Riot]

I cannot help but notice that his validation for his vote on me come after his vote using reasons that exist only because he voted me.

Total misrep again. All you do in this game is lie L-k. This post has been around for a few pages now, on top of the fact that my reasons were listed

in the post

where I voted. You've just been digging yourself deeper and deeper lately with all your OMGUS and crap logic, which Vi has very clearly presented. If Lowell dies before you do, his flip may bring even more tells against you from all the palling around you've done to him as well. There's plenty of reason to want you dead. Trust me.
----
I've been in a game with a town RB before too. But I think they're currently far less common than scum RBs on this site.

[CF Riot]

I bargain with votes in mafia all the time. Tis fun.

Unvote. Vote: Light

cause he's the closest to being lynched out of all the people I'd vote for.

Although MP's vote is crappy, it's not a wagon vote. I don't know why three people have referred to it as one. He's the only one voting me, and I think the only other person who's been suspicious of me at all today is Light. But whatever, yeah crappy vote.

In 1134 Yos thought about doing one of those things where you edit what someone wrote then put "fixed" below the quote, but he decided against it. You forgot to erase where you wrote "bad" though. Lolz.

Myk: Any answer for me yet? Who's the second best lynch for you? Possibly paired with MP or independent of him? Why?

Shanba: Convince me to vote Lowell. Do you think LK is scum? Why/why not? Who else do you think is scum? Did you see Gran Torino? If yes, did you like it?

[CF Riot]

Eh.

[CF Riot]

Dammit guys. I move back to Light cause he's pulling ahead, then two people bail off his wagon and split up! It's like one step forward two steps back.

KoC, Lowell and MP are both at four votes right now. Come back to the Lowell wagon with me and that drives it to six. Myko, you've mentioned Lowell is, at the very least, not a bad lynch. You come join us and we're at 7 votes, the most anyone's had all day and L-2. Whaddaya say gents?

[CF Riot]

Vote: Lowell

[CF Riot]

I'm behind in this game, but will catch up soon.

[CF Riot]

So since MP claimed to block L-K, and L-K claims vanilla, can we lynch MP?

I don't want to WIFOM it yet, since it's VERY likely that MP is a liar, but in the event that we lynch him and he flips some sort of blocker, I'd like to consider the fact that there was one less kill last night and L-K was blocked. (And if all that is true, then the block didn't fail apparently.)

I don't think KoC is scummy. Just, ya know, for the record.

[CF Riot]

Mod please prod and/or replace Sun Tzu and BridgesAndBaloons.

MP flip Mafia RB: LK -> SK
MP flip Town RB: LK -> mafia/SK
MP flip non-RB of any alignment: LK no tell

LK flip Mafia: MP = town
LK flip SK: MP no tell
LK flip Town: MP no tell

= means "most probably is"
-> means "increased likelihood of being, but not a certainty"

What does town say of the above? If you agree, does anyone think any of the LK flips are worth doing today before we lynch MP? While I love that people are agreeing on the Light=Scum theory, I sort of think the lack of 1 NK last night makes MP's lynch today a priority.

[CF Riot]

Vote: MP

L-3

[CF Riot]

He claimed Town Roleblocker forever ago. That's the whole reason we're lynching him. Also, I hate your avatar because I'm sitting just like that every time I see it and it creeps me out.

[CF Riot]

Vi I don't really understand your position. Are you pro-MP-lynch today or not?

[CF Riot]

3 people died again and none of them look like a vig kill to me. Maybe the KoC kill, maybe, but I didn't find him scummy. In any case, Light-kun should die today because on the night he was roleblocked, we had 1 less kill and our RB was town. He can't be a vig cause he's already claimed vanilla. Simple as that.

Vote: Light-kun

[CF Riot]

KoC and(slash)or someone being bullet-proof, but I've wanted LK's head for a while and this only adds to the list.

I thought Az was pretty scummy yesterday. New suspicions are building but I'd like to hold my cards for now, until I have a better read on who's left.

Mod: Please prod/replace Sun Tzu.

Also please update the title. Thx.

[CF Riot]

=/ Who did you target N1 and why? Crumb?

I still think LK is scum btw.

[CF Riot]

@Vi: I see what you're driving at but the only answer is it didn't cross my mind. I don't have any inside information which caused that answer.

[CF Riot]

I don't understand your question. I

was

interested in who was vigged, which is why I made the comment that none of the NKs looked like vig targets to me, with the slight exception for KoC. In case you missed it, TCS claimed to have shot KoC, so if he's telling the truth then I was right in that respect.

The good shooting comment

I made

about N1 is actually more likely to be the shot of an SK or 2nd scum group (I think SK is more likely now btw) than the vig, although I sort of misspoke originally when I made that comment. I don't know if that's what you're talking about though, as I don't think that comment was "generally agreed" upon by anyone.

Votecount:
Light-kun - 1 (CF Riot)
Not voting:Shanba, Vi, The Central Scrutinizer, Light-kun, Sun Tzu, Azrael001, Yosarian2, popsofctown, BridgesAndBaloons

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

[CF Riot]

Rofl waffles for everyone!

[CF Riot]

CFRiot replaced PerArdua. If you read PerArdua in isolation, you see he goes from defending KoC, to defending KoC but a little suspicious of him to almost all out attacking KoC. If KoC had turned up scum, I would be on his case like a tonne of bricks, especially considering that he starts turning on KoC only when the wagon on KoC starts becoming hot and interesting. Both this and his post gently chiding MonkeyMan are mildly scummy. Cf Riot, his replacement, has wagoned all day, with the exception of on Light-Kun. I would say he is fairly likely scum.

How do you reconcile the first part with me defending KoC D2 or 3 or whenever? Do you think MP was a bad lynch choice yesterday? I sure don't. I think it would've been near ridiculous to lynch someone else considering the situation.

What is your take on LK? I assume he's in the null/town group but where? Why B&B over say SunTzu?

[CF Riot]

1) I don't see what point you're making. Ok, you defended KoC: what does that have to do with your predecessor's odd shift towards him?

That's what I'm asking you. You're claiming something PA did was scummy, and I did something related to that. I'm just asking if you considered it at all. I completely see your point about PA looking scummy if KoC flipped scum. But since he didn't, I kind of fail to see why this was a bad thing.

2) kinda gives me a weird feel but I see your point.

[CF Riot]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 48#1438748

plus also

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1446163

and you have why I'm voting Light. The RB/missing kill scenario added to this, but has since been explained, so it's no longer relevant to LK being scum. However the above listed is enough for me to consider his lynch/my vote justified regardless of that being taken off the table.

[CF Riot]

@Shanba, weird like I wanna say "BS" but then again I can

sort of

see where town-Shanba would get this idea.

@Vi: Light then in no particular order Azrael, Yos, and you. The last three are not really a "scum" list but a "suspicion" list, in that I couldn't make a case on you or Yos if I tried but something deep down in my loins is screaming to get you out of here. I could see a Vi + Yos team very easily, especially since Xyl tossed this idea around, and immediately afterwards the arguments started up between you (distancing time) and then the following night Xyl dies. 1285 followed by 1291, the first time Vi ever showed suspicion of Yos.

Also, that comment I made that you didn't understand was basically, "We're waiting to see who MP targeted. It was LK, and LK says he isn't a PR. No new info can be gleaned from this situation because LK doesn't have a PR. Thus, the lynching of MP may continue as scheduled."

[CF Riot]

How come no one thinks Light is scum? Like, no one at all but me.

B&B 1393 is bad.

Votecount:
popsofctown - 1 (Light-kun)
Light-kun - 1 (CF Riot)
Not voting: Shanba, The Central Scrutinizer, Cogito Ergo Scum, Azrael001, Yosarian2, popsofctown, BridgesAndBaloons, Vi

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch

[CF Riot]

Lynch Light! I feel a severe lack of interest in this game, but I don't know why. 2nd option, lynch Yos!

There's nothing wrong with driving a wagon; leading bandwagons is generally something I consider a pro-town move, and it's something I do fairly often.

I hath seen none of this.

Seriously, why is no one voting at all?

[CF Riot]

But hasn't it been established that Az has played mafia for a while elsewhere, and he's simply new to MS?

Votecount:
Light-kun - 2 (CF Riot, popsofctown)
popsofctown - 1 (Vi)
CF Riot - 1 (Light-kun)
Not voting: Shanba, The Central Scrutinizer, Cogito Ergo Scum, Azrael001, Yosarian2, BridgesAndBaloons

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch

[CF Riot]

I think CF, who is likely scum in my mind, is softly casting doubt on the issue with Azrael.

The statement you quoted is me arguing

against

Az's defense. Yos called Az "newb scum" and I said he's not a newb, he's just new to MS as a site. Also, you are full of crap, and though you've been harping that I'm scum all game, you don't have a scrap of a case against me. The only thing you've cited all game is that I voted you first and made a case later, but I explicitly showed you that you are wrong about that, and you simply ignored it and continue to say, "Riot is likely scum, but I'm going to vote so-and-so instead because I'm really just trying to lynch as many townies as I can."

[CF Riot]

I'm currently re-evaluating my position on Light-Kun in Light of the fact that I -Kun not fathom his sudden change of position

*claps* (For the joke, not for changing your mind, although I like that too.) 1438 is kind of how I was thinking when I noted that I was the

only

one who seemed interested in LK.

Light should be the lynch, with the vig kill going most probably to Yos.

[CF Riot]

I assumed we were all directing the vig as a group tonight, since he came out and admitted that he can't find scum and wanted our help. I assumed it would be something like, "

Vote: X, Vig: Y

" with an unofficial votecount on who the town wants to vig, then letting TCS decide whether to follow it or not. I don't mind pushing for your lynch either, but I would rather LK go down before you (regardless of how) because I think he's more scummy. If someone day vigged Light right now, I would push to lynch you today instead of vig you.

[CF Riot]

Light, why is B&B not on that list?

Everyone, why is Light not on a rope?

[CF Riot]

Giving benefit of the doubt and because I'm getting little to no support, I'm willing to change my vote to either Yos or Pops today. That said, I still think Light is scummy as all get out and he's got the most votes, so I'm not switching unless there's a good reason.

What sayest the town of a Mass Claim? Too late in the day? Helpful, not helpful?

[CF Riot]

It looks like Yosarian or no lynch people. No lynches are bad, wheresoever your opinions lie.

At deadline, person with most votes goes down.

I'm surprised the Yos vote rose so fast with such a crappy case. I do suspect him, but it's a really crappy case. I've only skimmed about the last two pages. It looks like Yos is going down.

TCS shoot Light or Azrael, depending on Yos's flip. SK, w/e I don't think you'll listen to the town anyways.

This game is confusing, so I don't mind the Yos lynch. The only people I think are town are TCS and CES.

B&B

should've been

replace

d a long time ago.

[CF Riot]

Why do you think that pops?

Vote: Vi

.

This goes back to my theory on Yos + Vi based on their non-interaction early game, followed by a sudden back and forth argument after Xyl called out the possibility of Yos+Vi. It looks like distancing to me. Also note Xyl died the night after those comments were made, which was a factor in me calling Yos scum yesterday and now that Yos flipped scum is a factor in calling Vi scum today.

I would not put it beyond reason to think that Az is scum even though Yos flipped scum, although I agree it is less likely. I feel much better about Shanba today then I did yesterday. I don't really have any read on CESc or MME. Pops is mildy scummy, could see him as SK/"other" scum grp.

[CF Riot]

Pops, do you think you might be forgetting the possibility of two factions targeting the same person? Do you think you might be ignoring the possibility of other power roles still existing in the game? And IIRC, the discussion yesterday implied that Yos-town -> vig Az, while Yos-scum -> don't vig Az. Don't you think it's possible that TCS vigged LK?

Do you disagree with my suspicion of Vi? Do you remember yesterday when I was calling Yos scum early on?

Here

when the VC was

• Light-kun - 1 (CF Riot)
  popsofctown - 1 (Vi)
  Not Voting - Everyone else.

and again

here

when the VC was

• popsofctown - 1 (Light-kun)
  Light-kun - 1 (CF Riot)
  Not voting - Everyone else.

Both of these came before CESc finished his read through and I don't think anyone else was calling Yos scum at that point. I think I was one of the earliest proponents of a Yos wagon.

[CF Riot]

Wow. You aren't paying any attention at all. TCS is dead. Vi, while I consider him a good player, is by no means a "vet". CESc and Shanba have both been around a lot longer than him, as well as TCS himself. But the point isn't to figure out who TCS targeted, it's just to say that you can't claim that he didn't send in a choice simply because there were only two kills.

For your other remark of me "not going after" Yos, what would you call those statements then? I believe I made some others, but those were where it started and made my point of being one of the first (if not

the

first) to call Yos scum. I feel like I did my share of pulling him into the spotlight, and the only reason my vote wasn't on him at the end of the day was because Light, who I found much scummier, was still alive.

What's

your

read on Vi? Do you think he's town? If so why?

[CF Riot]

Votecount:
Vi - 1 (CF Riot)
Not Voting: Shanba, Vi, Cogito Ergo Scum, Azrael001, popsofctown, My Milked Eek
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

I cannot believe all the "who shot who" WIFOM.

What if TCS did shoot last night... and not toward Light-kun...?

and

I like Vi's theory that TCS shot Azrael. Maybe godfather or something.

are particularly scummy. 1 you have no evidence that TCS shot. 2 you have no evidence that

if

he shot, that it wasn't at Light. 3

If

he shot

AND if

the shot didn't go through

AND if

that was because the target was a GF or SK, then what makes you think the target was Az? It could've been Pops or me or (if it were a mafia shot) anyone else in the game. The kill could be disguised for a whole other reason entirely.

Btw, did you use a hyperlink for that wet noodle stuff so other people would assume there was legit stuff behind them?

This is laughable. The first link goes to another post I made with links in them. I've done it at other points during the day, and in other games. It just takes up less space.

@Vi 1540: I'll give you 1. 2 I disagree and 3 why? What would've been the difference? I actually didn't even know it was L-1, but even if I had I don't see how that takes away from me calling Yos scum

before

everyone else. Had I agreed once suspicion was building then tried to divert to a competing wagon, then yeah I see the point, but that's not what happened.

[CF Riot]

I don't see what you perceive to be the slip in that. The people (Pops or me or anyone) are referring to targets, not shooters. Pops and I (and Az) were all mentioned as possible targets for TCS yesterday before Yos hung. So

if

TCS shot and the shot failed because of kill immunity by a GF or SK, it could be any of us 3. But if TCS shot Light, then the lack of kill could be from mafia targeting the SK, which could be anyone, or the SK targeting the GF, which could be anyone.

[CF Riot]

Obv. it's possible that TCS shot Light, and the speculation is for naught.

Thank you. And this sir is why it's scummy to be saying, "Ooooh, what if TCS shot Az? That must mean Az is the SK cause he's still here and we're missing a kill."

I'll halfway give you the vote thing now that you've explained it, but in my defense the instances you're thinking of were me listing who I would vote to make sure one of my suspects was lynched, while multiple people were battling for most votes, some of which I didn't think were scum. Yesterday it was fairly certain that because of proximity to deadline and lack of competing wagons that Yos would go down, whether I voted him or not. Like I said, I didn't even know he was at L-1, weak excuse yeah whatev.

You seem to think I'm trying to take all the credit for the wagon and call myself Super Townie. I wasn't really trying to say I'm

so

pro-town for saying Yos was suspicious, it was merely my defense to Pops 1536 and your statement of "the Yos wagon looks townie," which is you doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of.

Would like some MME in thread.

[CF Riot]

Tell me one reason you've found that makes TCS shooting Az more likely than TCS shooting LK and I won't press it anymore. You know and I know that it's almost dead even chances, and for you to push Az-scum with that as your supporting evidence is total BS.

[CF Riot]

So to inject some life in the thread, next to Vi the person I'm most likely to vote for today is MME. I

should

do a reread of the thread with all the flips in mind, but it's spring break so I probably won't.

Here's an interesting question. Vi, why did you say TCS should shoot at Az regardless of Yos's flip given that you think Yos and Az are not the same alignment AND you think the SK has NK immunity? That seems to be asking our vig to shoot at someone who can't die, or more likely shooting at a townie.

TBH I don't like the idea of hunting a certain

type

of scum. That just seems like an excuse not to vote a scummy person.

[CF Riot]

Just so you're not taking it the wrong way, cause I know tone gets lost over the internet, the selective scum hunting remark isn't something that I think makes you suspicious. I was just giving my opinion. Yeah, with all your probabilities and what not, it would be better for town to lynch SK today than mafia. (I actually just skimmed the probabilities, and I'm taking it for granted that they are accurate and your conclusion is sound.) But personally, I'm just looking for scum. Yeah, I'll factor which faction I

think

they are once my minds made up, but that seems less important right now.

MME is because of those left, I have mostly town reads. Therefore, the absence of a town read has become a scum read.

[CF Riot]

Sort of. I agree with the sentiment that

if

he's scum, he's more likely SK than mafia. That's not to say we should lynch him just because we'd like to hit SK today. There's the possibility that he's town, which to me seems more likely than SK. Yeah, he's done scummy stuff and I had considered voting him yesterday. But personally, I think he's just one of those people that have a scummy playstyle and he's being set-up.

[CF Riot]

The way he interacted with Yos seemed town to me. Yeah, he didn't vote him, but the dialogue looked like he was actually judging whether or not Yos could be scum. The one instance I recall from memory was him challenging whether or not Yos (or any other high profile player) being alive near endgame was a scum tell. I also think his general statements throughout seem town.

[CF Riot]

Unless it's changed recently it was me the last time he voiced it. Hasn't said why yet though. What about you Pops? Who are you looking at now?

Prod: MME
Prod: Shanba

[CF Riot]

Calm down children. For Shanba here is the one instance yesterday when I mentioned Yos + Vi. Yeah I know, only one post. I'm sorry, I really really thought Light was scum and I was way more confident in that than Yos + Vi cause there's really not much evidence there. I spent my posts accordingly. I put Light above Vi for the vig because I thought Light was scummier than Vi or Yos. I was wrong. I mentioned Yos scum in about 5 posts yesterday, and defended Az against Yos yesterday. Call that wet noodle if you want, I don't think it is. Vi's above post is trying to rush a lynch by the way. All I can say for lynching townies is they were scummy townies. Sorry.

I'm assuming I'm at claiming point. I'm at L-2 with Pops threatening the L-1. I would really appreciate it if you guys not rush today and let MME go all the way to endgame without giving any reads. I would also really appreciate not getting lynched, but that's a given. Unless someone objects, I'll claim next post. I'm going to watch Lord of the Rings with my gf and her family tonight though, so it may be late or sometime tomorrow.

[CF Riot]

H

ey all.

I

'm replacing PerArdua.

D

on't need that link now I guess, mod. =P

E

xhausted right now, but I will do a read through ASAP.

My very first post. HIDE = hider. Can target one person each night, all actions targeting them will affect us both, all targeting me will do nothing. Note how I use 4 sentences to basically say "Confirm replacing in."

Do you think you might be ignoring the possibility of

other power roles

still existing in the game?

In response to everyone freaking out about only 2 kills. I have no information that confirms I was targeted, but the possibility means we cannot say for certain that TCS (or other faction) did not shoot. It could also be that there were multiple factions targeting one person, and my PR had nothing to do with it. I repeated this sentiment over and over, so I'm sure it's still fresh on your minds.


In the event that someone hammers anyways before I can post again, my last thoughts are that Vi and MME should be your top suspects. The way Azrael responded to my wagon looks scummy so don't let him off the hook either, but I still feel like those two are worse. I think CESc and Shanba are town. I think Pops is more likely town than scum. He's done some scummy things, but he could've hammered me already and been done with it and I think others look worse.

I did not target anyone the first 3 nights. Last night I targeted B&B because I thought there was a good chance he was scum, but even if not neither faction would benefit from killing him (because he's just a blank spot) and TCS was given plenty of other targets. I thought I may be targeted simply because I had little suspicion so far and if I'm right about Vi he has motive.

In response to Vi's last post, the times I made those statements were when Light only had 1 (mine) or two votes. The game was dragging, hardly anyone was posting and even less people were voting. It was pushing a wagon I thought would lynch scum, not speed wagoning. This day still has plenty of time till deadline, AND I hadn't responded to the first vote against me yet and you were already putting up a 2nd and encouraging a 3rd, which would have been L-1.

MP was scummy as hell and you know it. Don't even try to hold that against me.

Since we're in no need of rushing and there's plenty of time till deadline, I ask that you not lynch me for at least 2 RL days if you decide to continue lynching me at all. I would prefer we not lynch

anyone

until MME posts. I would also prefer people who have doubts about me to voice them so I can respond.

[CF Riot]

Woah, preview edit fail. The third paragraph was supposed to be at the end. Still makes sense though.

Votecount:
CF Riot - 3 (Shanba, Vi, Azrael001)
Not Voting: Cogito Ergo Scum, Azrael001, popsofctown, My Milked Eek
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

[CF Riot]

The first three nights I didn't see an advantage to hiding. I figured I was more likely to hide behind someone who got shot then someone who got protected, and even then that only mattered if I was being shot at. Last night, with the pool of players severely reduced and 3 shooters still left, it seemed like a good idea to use my power.

Lynching MP had nothing to do with proving anything about LK. MP deserved lynching before he ever said he targeted LK. But I couldn't ignore a missing kill after a flipped RB claimed a target. The quote was simply, "We're unsure about lynching MP because he's claimed an action. LK claimed vanilla, so we gain no confirmation of MP's power. Let's continue with the MP lynch."

I hadn't noticed that about the Lowell wagon. That's a nice find. But you got the wrong guy. What's interesting to me is neither you nor MME are on that wagon. The only people on it besides me that haven't flipped are the ones in the game I've been defending. =/ However I agree that it's unlikely that Lowell's lynch was a 9 man town push.

I know it's sort of OMGUSy, but I was actually wondering if people voting me can be a scumtell. I don't know if I was targeted last night, but if I was targeted by scum, they may have thought when the day started that I was a NK immune SK. This would give them motive to want my lynch above anyone left in the game. It seems to depend on a lot of stuff I can't prove, and I know the wagon against me isn't

all

scum, but I've been trying to see what I can discern from that. If I go down, you can all think about it tomorrow if it's not game over yet.

[CF Riot]

given the fact there's no real cop

Killa Seven. Died N1. Can't know his sanity, but he was a cop.

@Vi: You had already unvoted me. I'm putting some of my town meta out there for you guys. I hope someone actually reads this cause it was a pain in the ass to look up. Being impatient in stalling games. Bargaining with votes to get a lynch. This is actually the game I learned that in. Voting lots of townies. Yeah, I wasn't on the actual

lynching

wagon every time, but all those people I voted were townies. I actually don't think I ever voted one of the scum that game. All I can say is sometimes you have bad games. This is one of them for me.

The voting MP thing I already explained. I voted MP because MP was scummy. I didn't need to explain why in all my posts, it was established in thread. Everyone knew the reasons MP was getting wagoned. Now before I voted him, there was something worth mentioning that related the alignments of MP and LK. I did not vote MP

in order to

prove something about LK, I simply explained what I thought was important information to consider which would come from MP's lynch.

I'm actually not going to consider the WIFOM from people voting me based on failed kill attempts. I agree that mafia were more likely to shoot TCS than the SK, given that the SK may be NK immune and it's in his advantage for more people to being dying, especially possible mafia.

CESc seems most town. Shanba behind him. Paranoid Cop would be a clever scum claim, but I'm buying it. Those are the only two I'm not voting today. Any of MME, Az, Vi, or Pops could be scum. I think that's the order I suspect them in now too. Vi's latest attempts do look genuine. And my judgment has been spot on today. I'm not sure why we're assuming a starting scumteam of 3 is impossible, but I suppose there's no use trying to figure that out.

I don't know why I forgot until now but I think we should massclaim and finish out the list.

Unvote.

[CF Riot]

RE: Vote trades - So far it hasn't. I've yet to have scum manipulate my vote trading, because everyone I make deals with has been town, but all my deals have been on town so far. So yeah, it's not working so great for me.

RE: Voting townies - No no no. I know you're that dense. I'm not trying to say voting records can't be a scumtell and I'm definitely not saying voting townies is my town meta. I'm just trying to qualify the usefulness of that tell. I'm saying it's not impossible to be town and vote for a lot of townies, and it's certainly not beyond me. I don't think you should ignore that evidence against me, I'm just trying to say it's not any strong confirmation of my alignment.

RE: Pops - I think you're tunneling him. Like I've said, he's scummy enough to be scum. With 6 suspects left and likely 3 scum, I would not be at all surprised if he was scum. But I think he's been less scummy than others. I think Az is more likely SK than Pops, but you have him in your town pile.

RE: CESc - What are you seeing?

[CF Riot]

I actually take that statement about Az back. I figured he was more likely SK than mafia because of his interaction with Yos yesterday. But last night I did a reread of Yos's posts. From the time Yos replaced in, there was a lot of distancing from Az. There were tons of FoS's and statements about his play, but no vote. Yesterday, Yos was pushing an Az lynch all day, but he was the only one voting Az. It's easy to wagon your scumbuddy if you know the wagon isn't going anywhere. Az's vote on Yos looks weak as well. I'm starting to get the feeling that Yos was distancing hard all game.

I see Vi as scum with Yos, Az as scum with Yos, MME as scummy but impossible to read, and Pops as scummy but with no real ties to anyone. I could see Pops as SK. I'd be okay with a Pops lynch in the interest of trying to hit the SK and put the town back in this one.

Vote: Popsofctown

[CF Riot]

I have 4 suspects and there's likely 3 scum left. So what about voting my 4th ranked suspect is bad? There's two days till deadline, and one of my suspects hasn't posted anything game relevant. At all.

If it were just "vote someone scummy," I probably wouldn't be voting Pops right now. But that's not the name of the game. I've got to put my vote somewhere that will actually lynch scum, and given our current predicament it would be better to lynch the person who is most likely SK. I think that person is Pops. Before I reread Yos, I would've said that person is Az, but I've changed my mind on that one. If MME actually posted enough for us to read him, I may have voted him. It's not waffling, it's just making the most out of what I have.

[CF Riot]

I love all your maths and whatnot, but the problem with them all is if you lynch me you're going into night with as many scum as you have right now. I feel crappy because I don't even know if arguing my side matters. I have 3 votes and there are likely 3 scum left. For all I know MME and Az are town and just letting us go down in flames.

BTW Shanba, if I'm mafia then who's on my team? Who have I been protecting today? If you've got some theory all thought up then great I guess but think about it. I don't think I've been on anyone's side today. I'm town. I've played a crappy game so I've made it easy to make a case against me, but I'm still town.

[CF Riot]

Just ftr; I saw CESc's post. I don't know why the SK would claim in this situation, but I'm not the SK. Cheers.

[CF Riot]

You all need to seriously rethink your votes. I've run out of things to say to convince you.

[CF Riot]

I'm town. I wouldn't lie post-hammer. Sorry, this wasn't my best game.

[CF Riot]

So who shot Light, who shot TCS, and were there any other shots that one night? GG scum. On the last day 2/3 of the remaining players were scum, and I still managed to call for a town lynch. I called CESc and Shanba the two worst lynches. =/ Not a good game for me. Lurking reinforces itself as a useful scum tactic yet again.

[CF Riot]

Oh, and MP were you lying or did Phate really tell you that you got roleblocked N1?

[CF Riot]

It's not cheating. It's a game where the bad guys lie. C'mon.