large normal 243: lindOVER

[curiouskarmadog]

Hey MOD....I will be gone Thursday afternoon (05/04 until Monday 05/08).

[curiouskarmadog]

right now, I am leaning Venmar.

Bub kept harping on that I wasnt scum hunting or that being over defense is scummy. which...of course was bullshit.

Venmar has been leaning that my scum hunting has been inorganic....which is also bullshit.

Also right out of the gate on D3, both Venmar and Bub began testing the waters on a CKD wagon.

Yesterday he kept saying Bub was scummy, but didnt join the wagon until it was obvious it was going to happen.


THAT BEING SAID. I would like to reread everything again (1 to check if my memory is accurate and 2 to reread Bub's interaction with everyone).

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd feel free to gloat at me too

nah, I dont know if you are town or not. gloat wouldnt feel right.

[curiouskarmadog]

just because they are confirmed town doesnt mean they are right. Just means we dont have to question their motives.

at this point I dont like Venmar and there is something about OFR I dont like.

[curiouskarmadog]

okay, reading over previous notes. THERE IS NO NULL PILE!!! Just black and white.

TOWN pile
Furtive (mason)
Hu
Doctor D (1 shot BG)
NJAC (PR?)
Enchant
Sky/Star
sheep

SCUM pile
Vemar
Malcolm
Kowah
OFR

posts that I would like to remember.

HA!

bub is hard town imo

I can reassess on bub and

I don't remember much of his posting now,

other than I liked the way he was pushing carmadog and bbp early. I also felt when doing a proper re-read of the game,

you went from hard town to I dont remember much of his posting. That was a quick pivot. Also which part of the push on me did you like exactly? Like the part where he said I wasnt scum hunting and conveniently leaving out the posts where I was doing just that.

I also dont like how when OFR came in, he tried to divert from the Bub Wagon.

used a Day 5 case to demonstrate that Bub was town.

I disagree, I feel like we're not reading the same game. Especially D1 I feel like Bub would mostly pop in to voice his support for a different wagon between Andante, Hu, etc. I'm mostly going off of memory tbh but I've never found Bub's posting to be very "townie".

I ctrl+F'ed 'Bub' in your ISO, and Bub's wagon hopping seems to be a sticking point for you. Afaict, this is the primary reason you've been scumreading Bub this whole time, and the reasoning rings very hollow to me.

For clarity, Bub voted CKD, Hu Tao, Andante, and then finally KittyTacky.

I'm townreading Bub, because the reasoning behind each of these substantive votes were clear and made sense to me:

Spoiler: curiouskarmadog

AHH, I accidentally double posted!

curiouskarmadog

This is who I think is most scummy at the moment.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

Why? None of their posts have seriously moved towards scumhunting. In fact, to the extent that they've expressed theories on how to scumhunt, they've done the opposite -- or even worse -- not followed through on what they promised/gave the illusion of doing. First:

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Earlier I asked why Kawaii and not Hsu? If they believed me, why not vote for Hsu? Sure it's early and essentially a random vote, but I asked for explanation directly in post #39 and got crickets. Like, the whole idea of starting a flimsy wagon at the beginning was to generate some conversation about what scummy behavior is...but there's no effort to actually discuss that behavior.

Second...

I vote Kowahbunga for town leader.

(attempt to make friends)

then

(tells some jokes)

fun. clearly cant be scum

there should be a sarcasm font.

Making some vague allusions to the idea that Andate is scummy with no follow-up or serious pursuit. Just trying to sow generally mistrust on people in low-cost ways is scummy. This makes me think Andate is town -- conditional on curiouskarmakitty being scum -- because this is way too weak to be a bus. Also, curiouskarmakitty themselves said that fingers of suspician are cheap because it's a way to get credit for suspecting folks without doing the work...but here they are doing something very similar. I know they were intentionally hypocritcal earlier for a laugh (I don't read that as scummy) but this seems actually hypocritcal in a way that would be beneficial for scum.

also lets get this wagon started...

more votes on me please, lets get an early wagon started for giggles and see what happens.

this Day 1 fluff business is done. The true hunting of scum happens on the wagons!!!!

The wagon's already going my friend. Maybe try actually scumhunting instead of saying that you're going to do it.

I'm happy with my vote.

for Bub
dont want to repost the huge wall that was 242.
however my question was simply this.

in my post 136, I ask why you decided to leave off my question to Hu Tao when you made your "CKD is scummy because he is not scum hunting case". you post all my other posts, but deliberately left that post out. I wanted to know why?

and you still actually havent answered that question. Why did you chose to leave that post out when you posted ALL of my other post to "prove" your point. Clearly you cherry picked post and that post did not fit into your narrative.

Sorry about the wallposting.

I didn't cherry pick -- I picked posts that were representative. Your question to Hsu doesn't go against the narrative, in fact it exemplifies it. You asked Hsu a banal and vague question that's unlikely to actually advance the game state. But you did it to make it look like you were scumhunting so you could point to it if and when accused of not scumhunting.

Look back at my post, I actually think I did myself a disservice by not quoting your question to Hsu in post #95 because it would have made my point stronger. It fed into my vibes that you were posting stuff that wans't meaningfully scumhunting but in the moment I was posting the other examples sprung more easily to mind.

I also did answer your question to me in post #242 but I guess you didn't like/notice my answer.

Spoiler: Hu Tao

At this point, I really dont know if you are scum or just laser focused on a wrong read. So we all know you are set on me being scum....what are your other Scum reads?

Right now, I feel like the stuff you've done is clearly the scummiest out of anyone. The weak, wishy-washy "scumhunting," overly defensive and reactive reaction to serious pressure, and the scummiest possible claim means that my scumread of you is stronger than anyone else.

Ballpoint seems like a likely scumbud with you. Hopped off the wagon as soon as it got serious and slid onto the Andate wagon for questionable reasons. Also, as other people have been saying, they post a lot without saying much. Just feels like they're trying to play it both ways -- get credit for being on their scumbud's wagon (in case you're eliminated).

Glitch was a scumread, but that was based on them promising content and not delivering. They've more or less delivered, so there's no particular reason to think they're scum. At this point they're a null read for me. In isolation their posts seem fairly townie, but the analysis could have just been in response to the pressure.

I'm somewhat suspicious of Stargazer and Hu at this point. Stargazer's just been a lurker. Their iso has got basically no content. Town do lurk all the time, so it's not that alignment indicated, but I don't want them to get away with it. Hu is a difficult read for me because I feel like I have some first impression bias, but maybe I'm overcorrecting? I started the wagon early on them for flimsy reasons for the purpose of generating some conversation, and my immediate read on their reaction was townie, more as a vibes thing. But recently they've been lurking. As soon as the serious pressure dropped off Hu receded into the background.

Honestly, the game should head more towards holding the least contributing person's toe to the fire. The more scum talk, the more caught they get imo

Yeah, I see the point. At the very least lurking is anti-town, so pressuring lurkers to contribute can help the town even if the lurker is town.

I still think that Hu is scummier than Stargazer because I think their lurking reads as more strategic.

Still prefer a Hu lim here as they've been more actively scummy I feel. NJAC reads as just more of a lurker/low activity player. Hu's pattern of activity reads to me as more alignment indicative while limming NJAC feels more like a policy lim than anything.

What you think is "wagon hopping" I think was genuine belief that these people were scum. I think if you cared to look at the reasoning why Bub made these vote changes, you would see a clear trajectory behind why he scumread these people. Instead, I think your scumread here is fairly lazy and doesn't demonstrate intent to understand people's reads.

I also gleaned that day 1 last a month; voting four people isn't a lot at all for an absurdly long time, and anyone would want to move their vote to end the day when day drags on like that. Andante was a compromise vote to end the day.

Evidence of Bub wanting to end the day:

I'd be down on a flash wagon on Bub if it means we end this goddman day.

(btw don't see scum saying this)

btw, there were also many wagons Bub was vocally opposed to: Cephrir (aka me), NJAC, Glitch/Enchant, Skygazer (just look at VCs).

I asked him about it, but when I show he was cherry picking and I picked out the flaws in his case, just kept saying he felt like he was town motivated.

only jumped on when had too

[curiouskarmadog]

I am going here today.

VOTE: Venmar

if I HAD to pick one of the mason's choice it would be Malcom.

but I want more pressure on Venmar.

that being if OFR is scum, Venmar was the counterwagon for him to Bub yesterday.

[curiouskarmadog]

also why did scum have someone who was bulletproof?!?!

[curiouskarmadog]

Im back...will catch up tomorrow

Sheep needs a hammer? Wonder what has happened to get it to this point.

[curiouskarmadog]

couldnt wait till tomorrow. updated tonight.

My last post was page 167-4168
Top of 168 vote count is
sheepsaysmeep (3): Doctor Drew, Venmar, Enchant
Venmar (2): Hu Tao, curiouskarmadog
MalcolmTucker (2): Kowahbunga, Skygazer

4177, Kowah town reading me, welcome to the f-ing club, ill be next after the last mason.
4194, NJAC votes Malcolm, think sheep is town
4195, Hu okay with Malcom (assuming thinks scum?)
End of 168, sheep posts, but no content
4203, Furtive notes that CKS, Kowah, and Hu would have to bus twice to be scum. Means little, I have done it as scum, stat only pulls the votes out of context, means little at this point.
4204, Malcom, doesn’t understand his scumreads, says was pretty strong on Bub push (CHECK THAT)
4208, Malcom posts a defensive as to why he cant be town (CHECK THAT)
4211, furtive votes sheep
4212, sky votes sheep
4220, sheep provides reads, Sky and Malcom scum (doesn’t like Malcom’s recent pop in, that seems convenient.)
4221, Kowah votes sheep..dont like the reason.
4231, Hu, looks good here. Pushes Malcom and Venmar.
4232, if Kowah had his way, we would off Sky or ofrhz (instead he puts sheep at -1?)
4234, Sheep also saying he would vote Malcom (instincts)
4258, Hu goes Malcom
4260, Venmar could be convinced to go Malcom, but sheep feels right..
- At this point, the fucking wagon sucks, Mason, you should be ashamed leading this rabble
4261. NJAC will hammer if needed
4264, Malcom posts…could hammer sheep right now, doesn’t.
4267, sheep votes Malcom?
4285, not crazy about Malcom, but this post is true.



QUESTIONS

Malcolm is pretty wolfy + I think his recent pop-in was pretty bad

Why?

[curiouskarmadog]

Also sheep, why do you think that MalcomScum, hasnt hammered you yet?

[curiouskarmadog]

Mason, why isnt Venmar an option for you?

[curiouskarmadog]

hmmm, interactions between Malcom and Bub, DOES seem like Malcom could be town...or at least not a wagon at this point.

still down with Venmar.

[curiouskarmadog]

Tbf, I kind of was the lead on the sheep wagon. Furt kinda, ahem.....sheeped me.

who cares? if he flips town, you still want that credit?

[curiouskarmadog]

Tbf, I kind of was the lead on the sheep wagon. Furt kinda, ahem.....sheeped me.

who cares? if he flips town, you still want that credit?

furthermore, he is actively asking people to vote sheep...almost demanding it. sit down with your "well actually this is my wagon" crap.

[curiouskarmadog]

Tbf, I kind of was the lead on the sheep wagon. Furt kinda, ahem.....sheeped me.

I was biding my time

furtive!!!

why is venmar not on your list?

[curiouskarmadog]

you are the closest thing we got to a confirmed town....tell me what I am not seeing.

[curiouskarmadog]

im here, not a lot of time to post, but just confirming I had nothing to do with the SKY/SHEEP situation.

going to put together my case/thoughts on Venmar.

[curiouskarmadog]

also not particularly believing the sheep claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

Everyone has posted since sheep made the claim. No one claimed to have blocked or JKed.

not believing the claim.

VOTE: sheep

[curiouskarmadog]

that is -1....

[curiouskarmadog]

UNVOTE:

is there a reason you believe the claim?

[curiouskarmadog]

also you are not voting anyone.

who is scum then?

[curiouskarmadog]

.....

[curiouskarmadog]

If there's no vig in the game, then bulletproof is red herring and i find likelyhood of it pretty slim.

is anyone familiar with mod's games?

enchant has a point here.

IF bullet proof WAS a red herring. (and I am not trying to dumbtell here) is there ANY way scum would know that?

[curiouskarmadog]

There is mafia Informed flip, but it's not confirmed.

pretend like I dumb.

what does that mean? So scum knows something about the set up. what does "confirmed" mean in regards to being informed.

[curiouskarmadog]

wiki wasnt a huge help,

so the setup information they could have is that there is no vig? so the claim could be safe.

though it would need someone to say they blocked right?

[curiouskarmadog]

at the end of the day, it still needs to have been blocked though. and no one has claimed that

[curiouskarmadog]

so there could be a mafia roleblock?

okay....

I think I am ready to hear more about this.

I'm so lost, haven't been around since like Page 82 and came home one day to Kitty being dead.

Gonna try my best to do somekind of a catchup.

All I'll say for now is that NJAC visited me last night with a loud action

[curiouskarmadog]

NJAC has also said they didnt believe the claim.....

but I think this information would be helpful at this point

[curiouskarmadog]

also scum didnt seem worried about this, they chose to kill flavor leaf instead.

[curiouskarmadog]

for shits and giggles why doesnt NJAC claim FIRST, then we do that list of all the claimed things.

[curiouskarmadog]

Can you claim btw?

Is this addressed to me?

If so, why do you want me to claim?

because I am scum and I am fishing.

OOOOOR, I am trying to figure out this claim. something doesnt make sense.

[curiouskarmadog]

something about this Venmar/NJAC situation has never sat well with me.

NJAC felt Venmar was scummy enough to target him with something one night,
then the following day vote him (rather early), which I (at the time) took it to mean that he had some kind of investigation on him...but that ...didnt pan out?!?
scum appeared to think that falvor leaf was more of a danger to them than this power NJAC has.

I havent felt Njac has been scummy, but that was the first thing, that didnt make sense to me. and now this.

so I want to know the facts before going forward.

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't fully understand why CKD is trying to force a claim out of NJAC, and I don't think I like it...? If I thought NJAC was scummy I would've said it but I don't have a reason to believe NJAC's action on me N1 was of much importance.

wow...Im doing a thing "you didnt like"...im shocked. I remember you also not liking me with Bub. Ask me if I give a rat's ass if you like a thing I am doing. I dont care WHO you think is scummy. No one asked you who you thought was scummy.

I think you are scum

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't fully understand why CKD is trying to force a claim out of NJAC, and I don't think I like it...? If I thought NJAC was scummy I would've said it but I don't have a reason to believe NJAC's action on me N1 was of much importance.

wow...Im doing a thing "you didnt like"...im shocked. I remember you also not liking me with Bub. Ask me if I give a rat's ass if you like a thing I am doing. I dont care WHO you think is scummy. No one asked you who you thought was scummy.

I think you are scum

actually lets explore this a bit. How can you not fully understand what I am doing? Is it too inorganic for you? Given my post, what have I said I was doing?

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, did someone claim JK?

I haven't read much of the game yet.

You should read the game. Did you get something from the night?

Didn't see it when I made the post, then there was a page top.

Yes I had a lovely visit from you.

I missed this today.

so what are the nights this has been a thing?

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't fully understand why CKD is

trying to force

a claim out of NJAC, and I don't think I like it...? If I thought NJAC was scummy I would've said it but I don't have a reason to believe NJAC's action on me N1 was of much importance.

god, venmar is just getting under my skin. even this verbiage is designed to cast shade. "trying to force". I am not trying to force. I am asking. if you still think I am scum, vote me. if not, give up and just kill me tonight.

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't fully understand why CKD is trying to force a claim out of NJAC, and I don't think I like it...? If I thought NJAC was scummy I would've said it but I don't have a reason to believe NJAC's action on me N1 was of much importance.

wow...Im doing a thing "you didnt like"...im shocked. I remember you also not liking me with Bub. Ask me if I give a rat's ass if you like a thing I am doing. I dont care WHO you think is scummy. No one asked you who you thought was scummy.

I think you are scum

lmao

laugh it up. I am serious what part do you "not understand"?

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, did someone claim JK?

I haven't read much of the game yet.

You should read the game. Did you get something from the night?

Didn't see it when I made the post, then there was a page top.

Yes I had a lovely visit from you.

I missed this today.

so what are the nights this has been a thing?

Last night

annnd...we have 3 nights. We are missing one.

[curiouskarmadog]

also

VOTE: Venmar

[curiouskarmadog]

I think it's funnier to see how mad you get over literally nothing tbh

yeah, I thought you didnt have an answer.

ill help you though..."look, over defensive is scummy"

[curiouskarmadog]

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

also if I called this bullshit on my first post, I should retire again.

I didnt like this post, old bub was trying to get credit if Kawaii flipped scum, without actually doing anything.

[curiouskarmadog]

You're literally trying to push NJAC into claiming lol, there's no way this reaction isn't just fake outrage, vote me all you want bud

now its fake outrage....well if it is fake, I must be scum right?

[curiouskarmadog]

Venmar, you better kill me tonight.

[curiouskarmadog]

well I do like a Venmar vote, but this doesnt seem right.

So. There was no night kill the night NJAC kept Venmar... Not sure why he wasn't gone ages ago.

VOTE: venmar

[curiouskarmadog]

so thats 3 quick votes on Ven, then a couple on Sheep...I imagine sheep will show up and vote Ven, so that puts him at -1.

consider my vote ALSO on venmar...but there is no reason to speed through this day. I am going to try to reread Venmar (with a fresh eye) and see what there is to see.

that being said, Venmar, you again like Bub, wanted to put forward that I was scum, please I am interested to hear your take. Bonus points, if you lean hard into inorganic scum hunting again.

.....okay maybe it wont be a non bias eye....but I will try.

[curiouskarmadog]

Okay,

So I do feel like Venmar is scum. It was so incredibly scummy to push a case that someone's scum hunting is inorganic, then cant explain what exactly that met. It is just words you used to fluff up a bullshit case and when you were called on it, floundered. However, in the process of putting a case against you I was distracted.....there was something about ofrhz/gimili that I have never been able to let go. I am going to put this case forward first...THEN do Venmar. right now, I am a little scared off by the speed of this wagon...and reasoning.

I disagree, I feel like we're not reading the same game. Especially D1 I feel like Bub would mostly pop in to voice his support for a different wagon between Andante, Hu, etc. I'm mostly going off of memory tbh but I've never found Bub's posting to be very "townie".

I ctrl+F'ed 'Bub' in your ISO, and Bub's wagon hopping seems to be a sticking point for you. Afaict, this is the primary reason you've been scumreading Bub this whole time, and the reasoning rings very hollow to me.

For clarity, Bub voted CKD, Hu Tao, Andante, and then finally KittyTacky.

I'm townreading Bub, because the reasoning behind each of these substantive votes were clear and made sense to me:

Spoiler: curiouskarmadog

AHH, I accidentally double posted!

curiouskarmadog

This is who I think is most scummy at the moment.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

Why? None of their posts have seriously moved towards scumhunting. In fact, to the extent that they've expressed theories on how to scumhunt, they've done the opposite -- or even worse -- not followed through on what they promised/gave the illusion of doing. First:

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Earlier I asked why Kawaii and not Hsu? If they believed me, why not vote for Hsu? Sure it's early and essentially a random vote, but I asked for explanation directly in post #39 and got crickets. Like, the whole idea of starting a flimsy wagon at the beginning was to generate some conversation about what scummy behavior is...but there's no effort to actually discuss that behavior.

Second...

I vote Kowahbunga for town leader.

(attempt to make friends)

then

(tells some jokes)

fun. clearly cant be scum

there should be a sarcasm font.

Making some vague allusions to the idea that Andate is scummy with no follow-up or serious pursuit. Just trying to sow generally mistrust on people in low-cost ways is scummy. This makes me think Andate is town -- conditional on curiouskarmakitty being scum -- because this is way too weak to be a bus. Also, curiouskarmakitty themselves said that fingers of suspician are cheap because it's a way to get credit for suspecting folks without doing the work...but here they are doing something very similar. I know they were intentionally hypocritcal earlier for a laugh (I don't read that as scummy) but this seems actually hypocritcal in a way that would be beneficial for scum.

also lets get this wagon started...

more votes on me please, lets get an early wagon started for giggles and see what happens.

this Day 1 fluff business is done. The true hunting of scum happens on the wagons!!!!

The wagon's already going my friend. Maybe try actually scumhunting instead of saying that you're going to do it.

I'm happy with my vote.

for Bub
dont want to repost the huge wall that was 242.
however my question was simply this.

in my post 136, I ask why you decided to leave off my question to Hu Tao when you made your "CKD is scummy because he is not scum hunting case". you post all my other posts, but deliberately left that post out. I wanted to know why?

and you still actually havent answered that question. Why did you chose to leave that post out when you posted ALL of my other post to "prove" your point. Clearly you cherry picked post and that post did not fit into your narrative.

Sorry about the wallposting.

I didn't cherry pick -- I picked posts that were representative. Your question to Hsu doesn't go against the narrative, in fact it exemplifies it. You asked Hsu a banal and vague question that's unlikely to actually advance the game state. But you did it to make it look like you were scumhunting so you could point to it if and when accused of not scumhunting.

Look back at my post, I actually think I did myself a disservice by not quoting your question to Hsu in post #95 because it would have made my point stronger. It fed into my vibes that you were posting stuff that wans't meaningfully scumhunting but in the moment I was posting the other examples sprung more easily to mind.

I also did answer your question to me in post #242 but I guess you didn't like/notice my answer.

Spoiler: Hu Tao

At this point, I really dont know if you are scum or just laser focused on a wrong read. So we all know you are set on me being scum....what are your other Scum reads?

Right now, I feel like the stuff you've done is clearly the scummiest out of anyone. The weak, wishy-washy "scumhunting," overly defensive and reactive reaction to serious pressure, and the scummiest possible claim means that my scumread of you is stronger than anyone else.

Ballpoint seems like a likely scumbud with you. Hopped off the wagon as soon as it got serious and slid onto the Andate wagon for questionable reasons. Also, as other people have been saying, they post a lot without saying much. Just feels like they're trying to play it both ways -- get credit for being on their scumbud's wagon (in case you're eliminated).

Glitch was a scumread, but that was based on them promising content and not delivering. They've more or less delivered, so there's no particular reason to think they're scum. At this point they're a null read for me. In isolation their posts seem fairly townie, but the analysis could have just been in response to the pressure.

I'm somewhat suspicious of Stargazer and Hu at this point. Stargazer's just been a lurker. Their iso has got basically no content. Town do lurk all the time, so it's not that alignment indicated, but I don't want them to get away with it. Hu is a difficult read for me because I feel like I have some first impression bias, but maybe I'm overcorrecting? I started the wagon early on them for flimsy reasons for the purpose of generating some conversation, and my immediate read on their reaction was townie, more as a vibes thing. But recently they've been lurking. As soon as the serious pressure dropped off Hu receded into the background.

Honestly, the game should head more towards holding the least contributing person's toe to the fire. The more scum talk, the more caught they get imo

Yeah, I see the point. At the very least lurking is anti-town, so pressuring lurkers to contribute can help the town even if the lurker is town.

I still think that Hu is scummier than Stargazer because I think their lurking reads as more strategic.

Still prefer a Hu lim here as they've been more actively scummy I feel. NJAC reads as just more of a lurker/low activity player. Hu's pattern of activity reads to me as more alignment indicative while limming NJAC feels more like a policy lim than anything.

What you think is "wagon hopping" I think was genuine belief that these people were scum. I think if you cared to look at the reasoning why Bub made these vote changes, you would see a clear trajectory behind why he scumread these people. Instead, I think your scumread here is fairly lazy and doesn't demonstrate intent to understand people's reads.

I also gleaned that day 1 last a month; voting four people isn't a lot at all for an absurdly long time, and anyone would want to move their vote to end the day when day drags on like that. Andante was a compromise vote to end the day.

Evidence of Bub wanting to end the day:

I'd be down on a flash wagon on Bub if it means we end this goddman day.

(btw don't see scum saying this)

btw, there were also many wagons Bub was vocally opposed to: Cephrir (aka me), NJAC, Glitch/Enchant, Skygazer (just look at VCs).

Came in townreading Bub. With what? A page 5 case his made? We are 100pages into the game, you think think that the page 5 case because his "reasoning was substantive"? I am having a hard time swallowing that.

and Gimili's thoughts on Bub were hard to swallow too.

HA!

bub is hard town imo

I can reassess on bub and

I don't remember much of his posting now,

other than I liked the way he was pushing carmadog and bbp early. I also felt when doing a proper re-read of the game,

you went from hard town to I dont remember much of his posting. That was a quick pivot. Also which part of the push on me did you like exactly? Like the part where he said I wasnt scum hunting and conveniently leaving out the posts where I was doing just that.

anyway back to OFR

I think you have been hunting, but I'm also strongly townreading you for your emotional response to certain things and for how Kitty played around you. so I'm reading the game very differently from Bub. Reading the game differently doesn't make someone scum, however.

Has Bub been saying you haven't been scumhunting? Bub initially scumread you for your positioning around the Andante wagon, and then later for reflexively sussing him back. So a lot of this is reading TvT to me: CKD thinks Bub was testing the waters early today, Bub doesn't think CKD is scumhunting because CKD's just immediately sussed him back, CKD doesn't think Bub is scumhunting because Bub is tunneled... like you've had this 1v1 simmering below the surface since day 1.

I'll be honest - there are aspects to both of your cases that aren't convincing to me: you accusing Bub for "testing the waters", and Bub's argument that you're just OMGUS'ing to name two

Neither of you are making compelling cases on the other, yet I think both of you believe in your reads. Does that make sense? That's why I'm skeptical of Venmar saying it's SvS because they don't agree with either of you.... that just looks like opportunistically taking advantage of two people tunneled on each other.

My biggest problem with Bub (like Venmar) was his/their given "reasons" he thought I was scummy. They just were bad. Not like OMGUS bad, just bad. Given the facts of the game at that point, there is no way anyone would have thought I was scum given those reasons. He also kept saying I wasnt scum hunting, which wasnt true..at all. Like Venmar

IN your defense here, you were going after Venmar that day...WHO I ALSO think is scum.

.......


......


jesus...

as I am typing this...I just cant get over Venmar.

I think I have a ScumCrush on him.

I keep going back reading Gimli looking for posts that look scummy.

Gim did join the Bub wagon, when they could have easily stayed on the Sky wagon (who was leading at the time)

Gim did constantly sing Bub's praises as town....

I dont know.

Venmar is just so fucking scummy. There isnt enough with OFR/Gim that makes me want to vote them over Venmar.

going to go back to looking through Venmar's posts.

[curiouskarmadog]

So i think Venmar is mafia who was roleblocked N1 from performing kill.

walk me through this line of thinking, I feel like I am missing something.

[curiouskarmadog]

So i think Venmar is mafia who was roleblocked N1 from performing kill.

walk me through this line of thinking, I feel like I am missing something.

nevermind, I think I got it.

[curiouskarmadog]

VOTE: Venmar

I feel like this is one of you scum slots here.

Ill hammer sheep if needed, I cant see us getting to the end of this without that resolved. Right now they are at -2. But Venmar has been pinging my scumdar like Bub did.

[curiouskarmadog]

there's more tolerance for stupid ideas when modding

thought you were going to wait for ATE

[curiouskarmadog]

im fine w either but im going to get nasty with the AtE if sheep flips town

If sheep flips mafia i will be incredible mad on myself

If sheep flips town i will be incredible mad on furtive and he will be long dead so no "haha told you so"


I fucking lost in every possibility.

you and Sky need to get a room.

[curiouskarmadog]

im fine w either but im going to get nasty with the AtE if sheep flips town

If sheep flips mafia i will be incredible mad on myself

If sheep flips town i will be incredible mad on furtive and he will be long dead so no "haha told you so"


I fucking lost in every possibility.

in this sad sack scenario, your ATE on if Venmar is town and scum?

why mad at Furtive? if you did a thing based on his thoughts, it is on you. he is just a mason.

I really dont like this post.....

im actually more comfortable with my Venmar vote now.

[curiouskarmadog]

there's more tolerance for stupid ideas when modding

thought you were going to wait for ATE

if you think that's AtE you haven't seen anything yet!

I saw Ceph's sad sack

[curiouskarmadog]

If I die, I'd probably say Venmar most suspicious, not sure though

[curiouskarmadog]

HA..

so that we all learn, someone says over defensive is scummy? they are scum
someone says "your scum hunting is inorganic"? they are scum...

thanks for the game.

[curiouskarmadog]

can we read scum thread?

[curiouskarmadog]

favorite line from the scum thread was Bub's "None of the town players are doing anything remotely productive this game. Almost too easy."

done trolling now.