Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[SensFan]

Responding to prod.

[SensFan]

Vote: Hoopla

for his No Lynch vote, and defense of it.

Read through page 1.

[SensFan]

Unvote, Vote: BM

. As Yos said, the vote itself isn't a scum-tell anymore, but you seem to be saying it was a good play to make, which is wrong if Hoopla is Town. I don't like how you defend it, or how drastically you are undermining the "random" stage.

Read through page 2.

[SensFan]

I disagree with the strawman argument that GC disproved his own case. He did not say that a no-lynch vote would

not

generate discussion, in fact, he said it

would

.

What his point is as I read it, is that Hoopla made a move that revealed no alignment information.
That point is correct.

He says a no lynch vote is useless if nobody reacts to it (which you also reference later in your post). This does disarm his argument, as he does respond, and so do several other players. A random vote is also useless if nobody reacts to it.

The bolded point you can use on any of the first page random votes. If you disagree, link me to a game where a random vote does reveal alignment information.

Just plain wrong. The supposed "random" stage catches more than 75% of the Scum I catch.

1: Hoopla - for using what apparently has become a rather common method of starting a game, and then voting for the player that began chasing after it,

when the ploy fails entirely if everyone ignores it

. Additional suspicion for creating the false statement that GC was contradicting himself.

If the 'ploy' fails, then it's just one wasted post. I've never seen a game where a no lynch vote has been ignored - please show me one. My retaliation further validated the purpose for my no lynch vote.

Again, wrong. You made a post that hid your alignment, while letting you jump on anyone that either agreed with you OR disagreed with you, really.

Unvote, Vote: Hoopla. IGMEOY BM

Read through page 3, taking a break.

[SensFan]

Still don't like BM claiming that Hoopla's vote didn't hide his alignment at all. Hoopla seems to be avoiding saying anything, letting the bigger dogs fight over the debate he supposedly purposefully started, which is something I really don't like.

[SensFan]

I am not liking the large number of people that seem to be accepting the "I did something scummy on purpose to catch scum!", which is obviously very flawed.

[SensFan]

But the NL vote did not hide his alignment.

BM

We disagree, then. I get very large reads from the "random" stage.

[SensFan]

I hope you realize I haven't even finished reading the thread yet...

[SensFan]

confirm vote sensfan

I hope you realize I haven't even finished reading the thread yet...

you address BM's post After my vote and question of you...you address my request for you acknowledge my vote and questions..but you refuse to answer my questions which have nothing to do with a reread...

first scum found.

I have not read the thread. I have not read your vote of me. I have been reading the new posts.

[SensFan]

confirm vote sensfan

I hope you realize I haven't even finished reading the thread yet...

you address BM's post After my vote and question of you...you address my request for you acknowledge my vote and questions..but you refuse to answer my questions which have nothing to do with a reread...

first scum found.

I have not read the thread. I have not read your vote of me. I have been reading the new posts.

you read and commented on BM post that was on the same page...

Which post would that be?

[SensFan]

I have exactly 9 posts in this game so far..it is only 8 pages to this game..why are you asking me this question and stalling? you can easily find it. it is my post 4.

So yeah, I went and found the post in question, and guess what? I haven't read page 7 yet...

[SensFan]

Obviously I posted on page 7, that's when I made it to the thread. And like I said, I sometimes glanced at the new posts.

As for your vote, I don't see any reason for it. I voted after page 1, just like I would have voted after page 1 if I had been here. I voted for a NL vote because that is the single scummiest thing someone can do in their first post.

[SensFan]

I voted for a NL vote because that is the single scummiest thing someone can do in their first post.

BS.

BM

Absolutely anything else will show alignment. NL will not.

[SensFan]

single scummiest thing someone can do in their first post.

but you are not on page 1..you were on page 7..so please explain how that was a good idea without reading the game?

also, is voting NL in your first post a common scum tell?

if so, why the fuck would scum do it?...why the fuck would town do it?

it was a newbie mistake...so again, explain to me how that is a good vote?

and maybe you should stop reading new posts and get caught up.

I like to vote and react to posts as I read them, since it allows others to see my immediate reactions to those posts without the benefit of reading the aftermath.
I treat a NL vote as quite scummy, yes. I can get a read off of literally anything else someone does in their first post.
And I happen to be caught up.

BM, if someone actually rolls a die to vote, that gets a vote from me, too. Short of that, nothing is random. Scum have to make a conscious choice to either vote or not vote their partner.

[SensFan]

Yos, note that I am caught up.

[SensFan]

I like to vote and react to posts as I read them, since it allows others to see my immediate reactions to those posts without the benefit of reading the aftermath.
I treat a NL vote as quite scummy, yes. I can get a read off of literally anything else someone does in their first post.
And I happen to be caught up.

BM, if someone actually rolls a die to vote, that gets a vote from me, too. Short of that, nothing is random. Scum have to make a conscious choice to either vote or not vote their partner.

Scum have to make conscious decisions throughout the entire game, I think you're over-glamourizing the start. If you can get a read off literally anything in a first post, why are no-lynch/self-votes any different - it's still a decision. It may not be a statement directed at another player, but it is still a statement. Do you find it scummy those who don't make a vote in their first post too?

You may think I'm "over-glamourizing" the start, but you're dead wrong. With over 25 completed games, I think I'm well qualified to tell where I can get reads from people.

[SensFan]

Vote: tubby

[SensFan]

Sensfan – Responded to Prod today. No other posts.

Umm...

[SensFan]

i'm not concerned,, i just find it amusing its like i am damned if i do and damned if i don't

If you don't post, you will be lynched. If you soft-claim, you will be wagoned until a full claim.

[SensFan]

and I will not claim, i will go to the gallows nice and quiet and with out a claim

You realize that if you are Town, you are contributing to your loss with this, right?

[SensFan]

Sorry for absense, catching up.

[SensFan]

Whoops. I'm on this game this weekend.

[SensFan]

Alright, so its taking me a little more time than had planned. I will be contributing by THIS weekend. Guaranteed.

[SensFan]

I got confirmation of my result... I will give some attention to Alpha Centauri Mafia, and then I will post here. Do not wait to hear from me before next week (unless you plan to lynch someone, then by all means please wait until I return so I can clear anyone who needs to be cleared).

Any particular reason you didn't just post your result?

[SensFan]

And why would that be?

[SensFan]

Unvote, Vote: SensFan

Weren't you supposed to be posting some actual content, oh, a week ago now?

Oh, right, sorry. Forgot I never posted the results of my re-read, since you know, it was Night...

A nice post with who I find scummy, and reasons will come tomorrow, since I don't have time for long, detailed posts right now, prepping for a Super Bowl party.

---

I definatively don't like how quick 2 people were to jump on voting me so quickly.

[SensFan]

Gaining 2 votes from zero is pretty dangerous, huh.

Not at all.

[SensFan]

Well, it is a little strange for you to be questioning a mod-confirmed-town-dead-cop, Sensan.

I wasn't questioning him at all. I was just asking why he didn't post the results.

[SensFan]

Well, it is a little strange for you to be questioning a mod-confirmed-town-dead-cop, Sensan.

I wasn't questioning him at all. I was just asking why he didn't post the results.

For Ectomancer, who either failed to read 3 posts back, or else ignored the fact I rebutted that point.

[SensFan]

Wait...you're voting me, over the mod-confirmed Cop's Guilty result, because I asked said Cop why they didn't post their result right then?

[SensFan]

vote Magisterrain

[SensFan]

The last time you made a post that contained

anything

besides a false promise of real content or complaining to Claus for not revealing his result immediately was on

December 4th

. That's over TWO MONTHS that you've contributed absolutely NOTHING to this game. This is something that needs to be dealt with before anything else.

Nice misrep on that one.

Anyways, iamusername, tubby, Ectomancer are all likely Scum imo.

Vote: tubby

[SensFan]

Which part was brilliant? The one where I point out the blatant misrep?

[SensFan]

Nice misrep on that one.

You do realise that your post history in this thread is freely available for all to view, right?

Of course.

What you didn't mention is that I was gone from the site for about 2-3 weeks in that timespan, that we've had two nights, and that we've had a day that lasted a little over a week (iirc) in which it would have been anti-Town to post any opinions on anything, since we had already decided who to lynch.

That last part is also

precisely why

I asked Claus for his result before I posted who I felt was scummy.

[SensFan]

no the part where you voted me,

it seems off, like out of the three people you mentioned as scum ( with out any justification or insight i might add) u decided to vote for me. Wich in all likelyhood is the easier lynch since i came so close to it back on day.

You have no real evidence, no quotes or slip ups to point out. I believe you are scum and are trying to skate to a win.

Well, if I recall correctly, I voted you back on Day 1, first of all.
Secondly, I'm fitting in my MafiaScum time on computer labs at University at the moment, since I'm without a laptop. Not ideal conditions for large 'I haven't posted anything of real value in ages, so these are all the reasons why I am voting you:' posts.

[SensFan]

you also voted me without reason on day one as well,

If I recall, there was a large wagon on you Day 1. Are you really saying that no one had a reason to vote you?

and if you are havin issues request replacement

I never said I was having access issues. I said I didn't have hours to put together huge posts. Look for those next week, when I'm back home on Reading Week.

[SensFan]

*shrug* Maybe this is just a semantic thing, but it more seems like you are saying that your lurking was reasonable than that there was a misrep. In any event, I am curious as to why you think posting anything would have been anti-town?

It looked to me, anyways, like he was saying I've been constantly making excuses for 2 months, and ignoring this game.

And if a lynch has been decided (as it was when the confirmed Cop tells us he has a Guilty), more information that day helps Scum that Night. I assumed the risk of me being NK'd was fairly small, so it wouldn't hurt to wait until today.

[SensFan]

Starting with tubby, wil be done slightly.

[SensFan]

Fair.

[SensFan]

Sorry, got a little busy.

Anyways, I went to go for a detailed analysis of tubby's posts so far, and I really couldn't. His posts are basically all one-liners, and there is a ton of OMGUS and other faulty logic.

[SensFan]

What more is there to say about tubby's play?

[SensFan]

What more is there to say about tubby's play?

If that's all you were going to say you could have said it four days ago. You've been stalling, and that's not protown.

Because I thought I was going to have to spend time doing a more detailed analysis. Then I set aside the time to do it, and realized there was nothing to really analyze.

And where have you seen me do this as Scum?

[SensFan]

Difference between protown and scum. Throw in indifferent play and you have Sensfan. Seriously, I told you two pages ago that if I ignored him he would go away and all he has is this fold on the Tubby play? I don't find that scummy, I find it lazy. Pot > Kettle > Black

Honestly, maybe it is lazy. But I find it very hard to get back into a game in full-swing, right away, when I've fallen so far behind. I'm getting back into this game, though.

[SensFan]

Why does this feel like SensScum, as opposed to SensDoingAMassiveCatchUp?

[SensFan]

Tubby: SInce Sensfan is totally failing at trying to make a case against you, it would be wise for you to actually make a case against him, especally since you've been voting him for a while now and all you said about it was "I'm good with that".

What exactly do you want me to do? Comment on every one of his useless, one-liner posts?

[SensFan]

I want you to say why, exactally, you think he is scum. Or, perhaps, why I should think he's more likely to be scum then you are.

And yes, he hasn't done much in the way of content this game, but neither have you. Is there anything specific in his "one line posts" that make you think he's specifically scummy, or is it just the lack of content?

For that matter, any other content you could give could help. Who else do you find scummy? Do you have any opinions on anything else?

While I obviously cannot defend my absence, I was just that, absent from the game.
He's actually been playing, posting, and still has given just as little content as me. Even his 'analysis' misrepresents thing, claiming I was after sympathy when I was just explaining why saying '2 months without posting' (in a large game, where some Days last more than that) was misrepresenting.

In terms of other content, I've already said I think Ecto and iamusername are Scum. I'll get to analyzing details of why they are scummy soon. At least one of which will be tomorrow, the other may have to wait until Monday, since the weekend involves traveling to school, and I'm still not sure if my laptop is fixed yet.

[SensFan]

then after that he starts sweating about claus' result to me looks like scum tryin to figure out if he is caught or not,
he said it would be anti town to talk still if claus had a guilty already. i strongly dissagree because the more we talk the more scum slipp up and the more info we have as town

If you had read my posts, you'd know I was sweating about shit all. After all, had I been Scum, even if I had been investigated, there would have been nothing to do about it.

Like I explained, if Claus has a Guilty, we should be lynching that person ASAP, without talking about anything else. Any other discussion helps Town make a night kill before it helps Town decide on a lynch.

[SensFan]

This sense of Tubby vs Sensfan disturbs me and Yosarian's apparent attempt to cement that idea disturbs me more.

Hey Tubby, I thought I saw something like this, but then had to backtrack because I missed Claus actually naming his guilty suspect. Was this quoted section prior to that?

then after that he starts sweating about claus' result to me looks like scum tryin to figure out if he is caught or not,
he said it would be anti town to talk still if claus had a guilty already. i strongly dissagree because the more we talk the more scum slipp up and the more info we have as town

Waiting with baited breath Sensfan.

ecto are you supporting that comment or questioning it?

Sometimes I wonder if I'm speaking a different language than others...

I'm saying that I was berating Sensfan for the same thing way back then, but later discovered that I missed that a guilty

and

a player name had been given already, so my comments were out of place. Can you point out where you are not making the exact same mistake?
If you are saying that even with a guilty and a player name we should keep dragging things on, I would say that topic is very open to debate.

Claus posted without giving a result. I said something along the lines of "Any reason why you didn't give a result?", people voted me for showing up all of a sudden. Claus posted "I was hoping not giving a result would lead to more discussion, XXX is Guilty."

It was after that that you voted me. I think tubby is claiming my "Why didn't you just give a result?" is scummy.

[SensFan]

The notion of NL being the single scummiest thing one can do in the first post is a very forced argument, and presents a clear flaw. SensFan prefers random voting because it can give information into alignment; but if NL is so scummy, then doesn't it give into into alignment, too? I say NL is just as valid of a RV as anything else, and the person voting NL has made the conscious to do so (or, as Shanba said, just picked it randomly from a list, in true RV spirit).

No flaw in the argument, but that's besides the point. Why are you voting me for a theory disagreement?

[SensFan]

Seeing as this is the philosophy that most people seem to have, is there any point in me putting more into this game, or will I be lynched anyways?

[SensFan]

I don't know that I've played with Xyl that much before, but he seems kind of dead-set on lynching me :/

But yeah, I will definitively be doing my analysis of the two I named. Just give me a few days, maybe.

[SensFan]

Because during my initial re-read, I saw them as being scummy. I didn't take notes, though.

[SensFan]

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or at Xyl:

I wouldn't lynch Sensfan on the stalling and lack of content motifs. Voting to change his behavior, sure. I'll give you that.

I do think stalling and lack of content are good reasons to vote someone, but beyond that, he's been doing this thing where he goes back and fourth on either insisting he has given content, giving excuses for not giving content, and stalling, all without actually saying anything game related; and that really is a scum tell, especally the way he's been doing it.

Look, can you give me a few days to get the analysis done? Its not my fault I set time aside to do tubby, and there was shit all to analyze.

[SensFan]

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or at Xyl:

I wouldn't lynch Sensfan on the stalling and lack of content motifs. Voting to change his behavior, sure. I'll give you that.

I do think stalling and lack of content are good reasons to vote someone, but beyond that, he's been doing this thing where he goes back and fourth on either insisting he has given content, giving excuses for not giving content, and stalling, all without actually saying anything game related; and that really is a scum tell, especally the way he's been doing it.

Hmm. How many games have you played with Sensfan?

Uh, a bunch. I definatly remember him being more useful then this in past games I've played with him.

I'm way more useful than this as Town.
I'm also way more useful than this as Scum.
I'm also way more useful than this as other alignments.

[SensFan]

CuriousKarmaDog, Der Hammer, Xtoxm, and vollkan I charge you all with hammering SensFan immediately. I will certainly view any cowardly reluctance to lynch your scumbuddy in a poor light.

You're not even willing to give me time to get the rest of my analysis done?

[SensFan]

I honestly haven't done any stalling. I didn't realize there was nothing to analyze on tubby when I thought I needed a certain block of time.

But of course, you haven't shown to be reading my posts all that much.

[SensFan]

Gee, thanks guys! Its not like I completely wasted my time by rereading this game or anything!

[SensFan]

Or, you know, "Don't hammer the guy that caught up but didn't have time to make large posts within a week."

[SensFan]

Clearly...

[SensFan]

Or, you know, "Don't hammer the guy that caught up but didn't have time to make large posts within a week."

How about "there's only so many weeks you can promise you'll post, ask for just a little more time, before someone eventually gets fed up and just hammers you"?

And I would agree with you. But hasn't recent trends shown an increase in posting from me?