Large normal 236 [Game over]

[DkKoba]

Kyo is 100% scum, loft is 95% scum

[DkKoba]

I just like competing scum wagons. My vote will go on kyouko to put her over if needed

[DkKoba]

keep the excuses coming.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Kyouko

[DkKoba]

Paragon player here singling out the 3 most active players... talking and pushing = only scum play

[DkKoba]

I thought it over and i still think loft is scum kyouko should go first bc im not 100% on jake as i am kyouko.
Just how they're treating kyouko in relation to the game is really what is jarring to me.

[DkKoba]

How sustainable do you think it is for theoretical scum!Kooba to take charge and lead us through mislims in a large, without getting any suspicion for it?
They’d get 2 mislims max before getting vigged/copped or just eliminated.
It’s not what scum does. Loftwings points is, and will continue to be garbage. Now it is perfectly possible that Loftwing is town and genuinely believes what he is saying, but his points are absolutely not valid.

M8 what are you even trying to say? Scum can’t be active? It’s sustainable for as long as it works. If a scum slot is suspicious for not getting nightkilled, a buddy can just claim doctor. I don’t like how you’re acting like the POV you’re pushing is the only valid POV.

Again: "could be scum" means nothing unless you can outline a scum thought process that aligns with reality whilsit also eliminating plausibility for a town thought process.
This is what i did with loft. While there *is* plausibility for being town for the most part - the one part that is unable to be shaken off is the Kyouko treatment that i cannot see a town universe for.

[DkKoba]

Norwee I'll do you one better, 5/6 of my recent scumgames ive been intentionally lurky to not get attention because I abuse town goldfish memory syndrome.

[DkKoba]

The sample of 1 is because my partners needed to be carried

[DkKoba]

kyouko are you referring to me beacuse my pronouns aren't he/him

[DkKoba]

Also lol if it is @ you trying to tell me how to read you better in the future when i already have sniped your alignment with *ease* before.

[DkKoba]

State your full read on dwlee and loftwing. No null reads - there's enough content from both where you can make a good effort and form a full read.

[DkKoba]

Since you pointed that out ranny - this is exactly the reasoning I sniped kyouko for in our first encounter together where she was scum and I was town. I was snowed by the rest of the team at the time but I was zoned in on her(got distracted d2 but we can ignore that lole)

[DkKoba]

Glad people are seeing the light.

[DkKoba]

I mean I can see its partially omgus but whatever it takes yknow haha

[DkKoba]

I’ve already said that i’m voting Kyouko until they post.
I think their shitty reaction to pressure from Koba and subsequent flaking from the game was extremely scum indicative. If they return and make town posts i’ll change my mind, but if nothing has happened to change my scumread of the slot i don’t see why it should.

What about my reaction to pressure is shitty?

Your immediate OMGUS on Koba when they called you out was really scummy, and i don't think you genuinely believe your own arguments about why Koba is mafia.

Correction : i was only publicly scumreading kyouko once she went into discred mode against me.
I was holing the read bc she knows shes done for due to my ability against her meta.
She's continued to post in a way that is her scum meta. Its all shallow nonsense disguised by clever wording.

[DkKoba]

Kyouko was already implicitly scumreading me - which i want to correct since its going to lead to a useless semantics discussion as youre claiming it.

I pushed on kyouko after she voted for me.

[DkKoba]

Regardless i dont think the way kyouko is treating my slot is towny.

[DkKoba]

quick you are exhibiting a logical fallacy assuming that we are wrong simply because we are loud and in agreement.

It doesnt make sense and is a reason made up to support a wanted theory.

You *want* us to be wrong/scum.

And thats an important distinction to make vs what youre claiming.

[DkKoba]

We are though.

Don't you think that's a little... arrogant?

And if that stings, then wait till your preferred Elim flips Town.

why is kyouko town? Have you played with kyouko before? Why are they outside of reasonable scumrange to you?

[DkKoba]

hello

quick you are exhibiting a logical fallacy assuming that we are wrong simply because we are loud and in agreement.

It doesnt make sense and is a reason made up to support a wanted theory.

You *want* us to be wrong/scum.

And thats an important distinction to make vs what youre claiming.

You're making a logical fallacy thinking that my reason for thinking you are wrong is because you are loud. Correlation is not causation.

Ok but you still havent shown how we are wrong. Being in agreement and beint confident are shit reasons to say we are wrong

[DkKoba]

im not sure how many votes they have, but I'd like to vote for Loftwing. i feel deep in my heart that loftwing is not playing for the good team here becaseu very performative style, lots of posts with little content early on, but just something not good with the tone which is hard to explain.

Changing too jarringly?

[DkKoba]

When did i deny that i wanted to kill kyouko?.LMAO?

[DkKoba]

You can do 2 things at once.

[DkKoba]

holy shit youre trying to claim bc norwee misattributed my intentions that makes us wrong/scum
if anything it proves we are unaligned and at least 1 of us is town so get fucked with that

[DkKoba]

when soemone wants to kill your slot - would you not call that pressure, loftwing? or are you special and use different words?

[DkKoba]

"you can't bui-"

let me stop you right there.

bad take.

you aren't me - you don't use wording the same way I do. you are trying to weave a narrative that doesn't exist.

Grasping at straws is all you are doing.

I was pressuring Kyouko because obviously no one is good enough like me to read kyouko as consistently as I have before. I was pretty much the only one pushing her when she was scum both times at the start and it took evidence to be gathered to get others to sheep. part of this game is convincing others - and part of that process is gathering the evidence that helps others see what you are seeing if you are able to reach correct conclusions sooner than most.

What scum motivation do I have to "pretend to build pressure" and want them dead? What are you on about with this?

[DkKoba]

And above all - I am no fool. I will continue to evaluate a slot in real time and actually be open to changing my mind and give those people a change. My initial push onto kyouko at the time was not 100% - was more like 80% - but pressure helped raise that to 100% certainty.

Maybe if you actually used these kinds of reading methods instead of attacking those that use them you would actually have accuracy in games if you are town here/succeed at defending your partners from elimination(or at least be unable to collect the bus towncred) as scum.

[DkKoba]

"you can't bui-"

let me stop you right there.

bad take.

you aren't me - you don't use wording the same way I do. you are trying to weave a narrative that doesn't exist.

Grasping at straws is all you are doing.

I was pressuring Kyouko because obviously no one is good enough like me to read kyouko as consistently as I have before. I was pretty much the only one pushing her when she was scum both times at the start and it took evidence to be gathered to get others to sheep. part of this game is convincing others - and part of that process is gathering the evidence that helps others see what you are seeing if you are able to reach correct conclusions sooner than most.

What scum motivation do I have to "pretend to build pressure" and want them dead? What are you on about with this?

Scum want to miselim Town. That could be a possible motivation you have for pushing this so strongly.

Please stop with the vague shit.

"scum want to mislim town"

Is Kyouko still null to you?

[DkKoba]

If kyouko does flip town I'll eat crow and it'll prob fuck up the gamestate for us but I believe we have a hit - and anyone can see that for themselves by comparing Kyouko's scum games to this game and then also crossreferencing her town games.

It's pretty obvious like if you even give half a shit to verify what I have been claiming about Kyouko's play thus far.

[DkKoba]

Like this is the sort of case where if you want to say I'm wrong/scum you should actually prove that Kyouko is town first - something i believe impossible and I know no one accusing the townblock has tried it because they would reach that same conclusion, provided they were not biasing themselves into believing it at all costs.

[DkKoba]

sigh

I really don't want to have to explain the same thing over and over again.

Building Pressure

and

Executioning

are two mutually exclusive things. You cannot both

Want to gauge how someone reacts to pressure

while also

wanting to kill them

because the whole purpose of building pressure is

to determine a player's alignment without killing them

, while the whole purpose of execution is

to kill those who have been deemed to be against the town

(mainly in the form of killing scum). You cannot want

someone alive

while also wanting them

dead

. They are mutually exclusive. I hope you can understand this, because I will not be explaining it again.

I can and I will and you're really pissing me off because of how wrong your takes are and how destructive they are to this gamestate.

[DkKoba]

TBH i dont mind policying loftwing just to make the game more bearable

[DkKoba]

You are intentionally ignoring the point where the pressure isn't for me, it's for other people to see.

Plus its literally inherently what happens when someone votes someone and wants their slot dead - so maybe you should go back to mafia 101 if you think pressure is incompatible with pushing to kill.

[DkKoba]

Honestly like do I need to ELI5 it for you because i feel like I do because its the level of logic i'm dealing with here from you.

[DkKoba]

Like this is the sort of case where if you want to say I'm wrong/scum you should actually prove that Kyouko is town first - something i believe impossible and I know no one accusing the townblock has tried it because they would reach that same conclusion, provided they were not biasing themselves into believing it at all costs.

If I wanted to prove that you're wrong, I would need to divine Kyouko's alignment. If I wanted to prove that you were scum, I would need to divine your alignment.

You have done nothing in the direction of solving Kyouko's slot. So stop with the performance.

[DkKoba]

You don't care about solving kyouko's slot - you claim kyouko slot is null - you claim norwee and I have scum in us pushing kyouko.


you are 1 dimensional and I have no issue with you being eliminated over kyouko if I can't get people to consolidate with me on kyouko.

[DkKoba]

Oh we are NOT moving on.

Give me more on kyouko. What is your read there?

How are they still null if so, what prevents them from moving elsewhere?

[DkKoba]

@norwee @dwlee @a50 wanna just turbo loftwing instead - getting p annoyed and their reaction here to being called on their kyouko treatment in relation to us is just giving me the confidence to risk going outside kyouko today.

[DkKoba]

OH hold up - you know what scum kyouko looks like, do you Loftwing? what's the difference here?

[DkKoba]

If you weren't caught before - you are now because you are trying to pretend meta supports your claim when I know that is the opposite case.

[DkKoba]

gut says probably not kyouko today. could consider LicketyQuickety though. it would be more informative for me partly because of the player's clear posting style. and that defence stuff about 'I can't be scum here because I'd never post a half-complete readslist as scum' was a bit sus. had a bit of "mafia caught for the wrong reasons" vibe to it

I'll UNVOTE: for now anyway, seems like things are getting a bit fiesty

bad unvote

[DkKoba]

and no we're not getting quick here, them having bad takes is not alignment indicative by itself. (as is loftwing, as their main is easily mislimmed when town - but i believe the points i have about their treatment of kyouko make it clear that this is not a towny thought process they are using)

[DkKoba]

talking about policy elimming and speed elimming someone is a red flag for me, we have 4 days left? I can think about it

a) you just got here
b) why is kyouko gut towny to you

[DkKoba]

im just at the point where just gonna PoE and omgus anyone who refuses to sheep my 100% accurate meta read on kyouko

[DkKoba]

OH hold up - you know what scum kyouko looks like, do you Loftwing? what's the difference here?

I believed Kyouko when they were V/LA, and what they are doing now justifies them being on V/LA. Now, if they would have just completely ignored the ketchup, I would be in agreement with you that they are worth looking into and maybe should be pressurized into a diamond, but so far I'm failing to see that here. I don't think they lied about going on V/LA because of their ketchup, and their ketchup seems to emulate a town perspective on the game.

In short, the proof is in the... keeetchuupp... yeah....

(

Ketchup pudding just sounds gross. I wonder if anyone has actually made that.

)

this isn't a logical argument.. "she didn't lie about v/la so that means all other arguments are irrelevant and thus she is town"

this is what you are trying to say.

and like even if you were to remove the lack of response on her push during her v/la - that wasn't a reason for her to be town to be on vl/la. it was a reason that she was scum that she was dodging thread while pressure ramped up.



nor does it even remotely answer what I requested from you.
Your arguments tire me further.
VOTE: Loftwing

Towncase kyouko fully, and without these bullshit v/la points, so we can see your thought process.

[DkKoba]

dkkoba what's the three-point summary of Kyouko-scum for me?

More questions than solid statements(attempting to appear "uninformed" via trying to informatively look like she needs to ask about everything - hides in catchups to avoid pressure - no fire in their play, this *is* present when they are town. (hard to quantify - its more of gut thing than anything that is felt )

[DkKoba]

Again - be specific *what does that mean*.

[DkKoba]

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

[DkKoba]

i'm like firmly in my current townrage and very distinct from my recent scumrange - if you think i needed to tryhard at a playerlist like this instead of doing what i normally do at a PL with players i know you're trolling.

[DkKoba]

Pressure isn't pressure if it doesn't actually carry a threat of dying with it. Wtf

loftwing is just scum. let's switch to him and then we can get kyouko after.

[DkKoba]

WHAT FUCKING TOWN RADIATION YOURE FULL OF SHIT LMAO

[DkKoba]

i honestly dont care if you flip town youre basically 5th scum if you are and join spec chat instead of flooding the thread with your bad takes

[DkKoba]

cool cookie - loftwing - andres- kyouko

is a solve i dont hate atp

these are the only 4 names that are not hitting the bar of townienes I have currently set.

[DkKoba]

Pressure isn't pressure if it doesn't actually carry a threat of dying with it. Wtf

loftwing is just scum. let's switch to him and then we can get kyouko after.

I still feel like Loftwing has a better chance of just being... wrong

Although I've definitely won games killing wrong town before getting the scum lol

its literally a win win because then we remove their influence and prevent them from ruining the game

[DkKoba]

hakai/wake/nero could have scum if im wrong on any of those but i believe i have at least 3/4.

[DkKoba]

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

I'm going to just stop arguing with you. You seem to be saying "I am not and can never be wrong", so there's no point in trying to change your mind there. You won't accept a good argument even if it was made, because you have it in your head that you can't be wrong, and no amount of argument in the world will change someone's mind if they decided that they are right.

You say this after providing shitargument after shitargument - like the v/la nonsense.

I will just say it, I have better accuracy and if you are town you would just sheep someone who has a proven track record of 100% reading someone as my claim is just as good as a tracker guilty.

[DkKoba]

if you take a look at the 3 games i linked of kyouko and I's you see that I have her number at this point as both alignments and it wasn't just a fluke.

[DkKoba]

Norwee is confirmed town

[DkKoba]

Why is kyouko not an informative elim?

[DkKoba]

Also theres 0 chancd norwee is limmed here today

[DkKoba]

Cool. I'm masons with nowee. Now unvote
.

[DkKoba]

also norwee and i think you and kyouko are near sure scum so start talking

[DkKoba]

Im stole ascetic so don't doc me

[DkKoba]

Still*

[DkKoba]

i told u they were scum norwee lol

[DkKoba]

I have proven accuracy with confidence with her being both alignments. this isn't me being able to "eventually" get the right read - this is me being able to snipe her alignment d1 regardless of what she rands.

[DkKoba]

based on now having 2 green slots confirmed - the pool of loftwing/nero/kyouko/cool cookie look v bad.


I believe when kyouko wagon was at its height there was potential scum bussing there but the core 4 of norwee + I, and then a50 +dwlee are the strongest towns objectively there.

[DkKoba]

But norwee and Koba were so obvtown

being town doesnt mean being right necessarily

[DkKoba]

i mean at least we agreed that their elimination would be a benefit regardless of their alignment

[DkKoba]

holy shit youre trying to claim bc norwee misattributed my intentions that makes us wrong/scum

if anything it proves we are unaligned

and at least 1 of us is town so get fucked with that

Not unvoting this obvious gambit

@Norwee why are you going along with this? If this really happened you can paraphrase it:

Koba has detailed to the letter in our thread why SSB is 100% just scum here and we need to kill them.

norwee exaggerated + fuck you we aren't sharing shit.

[DkKoba]

also the fact that you searched for a reason to not have to look outside and spew - thanks for further confirming your scum status.

[DkKoba]

I doubt norway and koba are actually masons. But getting 4 votes and then outting is pretty ass.

why did you think norwee was scum - explain your thought process.

[DkKoba]

I didnt have to search for it btw, I remembered you saying it because I'm paying attention. I just had to find the quote.

and that's exactly the thing i would say about my own mason partner to clear them as town and simultaneously not make at least us 2 obvious upon flip.

[DkKoba]

I dont buy that Koba says that about a Mason buddy especially if they expect to die N1. That's setting you up to be CCed in ELO if true.

lol if anyone trusted anyone but the person i said was locktown on d1 in a cc they would be trolling - so weird concern.

[DkKoba]

ranny is town im not taking criticism

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Kyouko

Lets do it.

[DkKoba]

loftwing really showing they dont have an agenda to save kyouko here or anything

we have 3 days left in the deadline push this through already

[DkKoba]

how about no

[DkKoba]

Also finally wrapped up mod duties in another normal game, well done titus. I didnt want to reveal more about how i was reading her to not unduly influence that game because it was mostly based off what i was seeing that game :O

[DkKoba]

I want to kill but brain says mech to not

what happens everytime we listen to mech?

[DkKoba]

none of kyouko's play suggests they are a self clearable role - just ignore the plea to live "one more day"

[DkKoba]

all kyouko's claim does is add more to why she is scum because she has not played the game like a self clearing PR at all - while norwee and I have

[DkKoba]

im not succeeding at being agreeable, as pretty much everyone has disagreed with me so far, perhaps because my opinions are too controversial! thanks for complement tho, maybe i will live with my name as my motto

im ok with dying today though if there are no better options - just want my last request to do a final readslist before the hammer

scum never plays lamist in a large normal.

this is town.

Hi, barely reading this thread, but I think I want to go here:

VOTE: cookie

Could be just a nice individual, but I get the sense they are Newb Scum trying to be agreeable rather than just being an agreeable person in general.

eh they are putting themselves out there.

these are not holistic reasons to townread someone

[DkKoba]

either you think both norwee and I are scum or you think kyouko is genuine.

choose 1.

kyouko is blatantly fake.

i dont care about "give em a night:"


nah they got caught and are the best lim here and we should *not* derail an obv scum claim under duress

[DkKoba]

yes norwee and i decided to trade for kyouko.

very smart of us.

get real.

[DkKoba]

the fact our claim is being put under scrutiny like this is not helping a potential 3rd mason partner hide and yall are making it much harder when its fucking blatant that norwee/i played in such a blatant manner with townreading eachother with ease that yknow! we're towny as fuck.

[DkKoba]

if kyouko flips town i will: a) curse the reviewer b) rescind my godread status on kyouko effective forever.

i believe neither of these things are likely at all - so full steam ahead on kyouko, she is effectively our CC.

[DkKoba]

or maybe this discussion is over and i'm not helping leak any more mason info that doesn't need outting anymore.

dont care if you dont believe our claim, being annoying about it is anti town and unnecessary.

[DkKoba]

legacy poe: every fucker who is doubting our claim because it is clearly fucking meant to discredit us

[DkKoba]

if youre not voting kyouko with us and also verbally trying to discredit norwee/I you are scum.


i dont care i will strongarm kyouko lim thru - whatever it takes.

[DkKoba]

your behavior around kyouko slot is scummy as shit anyways so ur hard PoE anyways

[DkKoba]

i dont care if u dont believe us, just pretend to for 1 day phase.

[DkKoba]

there is no basis upon which to doubt the mason claim other than "i dont wanna have to follow koba/norwee"

its pretty blatant why the doubt is pushed because theres a fucking scum on the chopping block and people are too scared to vote there

[DkKoba]

i think you're outted scum.

we are not voting outside kyouko today just get on

[DkKoba]

nah that never happens unless there's an agenda being pushed.


never in my time ever playing does a mason claim get any scrutiny - unless its a solo claim, in which case people dont doubt the duo claim.



there's an agenda out to avoid limming kyouko and its blatantly within the people trying to push against it because we played pretty blatant with sloppy cover ups

[DkKoba]

attention ALL Mafia gamers - cyclone NEEDS your help! he has been accused of cheating AGAIN. all you need to do to save cyclone is post your credit cards NUMBER and those SILLY numbers on the back. Do it quickly! as cyclone might be banned before you can save him!

too bad he is already preemptively banned from this site after he refused to show any remorse for his actions lmao

[DkKoba]

i dont care if u dont believe us, just pretend to for 1 day phase.

Fine.

this is so scum

look u are not known for ur accuracy - like this is not a fucking scumtell - its ranny having this kind of personality.

to conclude its scum is silly.

i have thought ranny has been consistently towny this game im just annoyed they wont sheep me.

[DkKoba]

your behavior around kyouko slot is scummy as shit anyways so ur hard PoE anyways

all I did was ask what the case was. Wich is IDK, reasonable. You're a kid that's lashing out b/c didn't do what you wanted the second you wanted. ssbm fake claims DN as scum so they live for a night, eh? not impossible.

ok kyoukoscumbud whatever u say

[DkKoba]

attention ALL Mafia gamers - cyclone NEEDS your help! he has been accused of cheating AGAIN. all you need to do to save cyclone is post your credit cards NUMBER and those SILLY numbers on the back. Do it quickly! as cyclone might be banned before you can save him!

too bad he is already preemptively banned from this site after he refused to show any remorse for his actions lmao

wait what he's banned from here too?

already messaged a listmod who said "lmk if he comes over" lol

[DkKoba]

who cares the bus train left a long time ago, i already smoked her, people are just trying to pretend like its too good to be true/are scum trying their best to last second save their scumbud.

[DkKoba]

plus i really dont care about kyouko's role except to point out the fact she has not even remotely played as if she was that role at all this dayphase.

[DkKoba]

no. i dont need to prove shit anymore

my read is that kyouko is scum and i have a good read rate on her + im 99% clear -> ergo you should sheep the fuck out of that read.

within 24 hours i should be able to even add to that.

[DkKoba]

ok loft "kyouko nullread" wing

[DkKoba]

there's nothing to believe.

its fucking fact.

[DkKoba]

i think anyone who straight up refuses to vote kyouko though is a perfectly valid counterwagon so keep the defense coming.

[DkKoba]

if you think going in circles again about this is useful, sure.

[DkKoba]

i told this to norwee but im making him sheep my legacy townreads as long as he is alive at least thru d2

[DkKoba]

so yall pls do so too

[DkKoba]

grandpa/ranny/dwlee/a50/norwee towncore on scumflip here

[DkKoba]

LMAO i said i was ascetic and scum targeted norwee didnt they hahahahahahaha

[DkKoba]

also i'm 5/5 on kyouko lets fucking go yo

(a game completed where i also found kyouko town d1)

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Mama Ru

[DkKoba]

Nero/mama ru are good lims today. Also i think scum kill was lively roleblocked

[DkKoba]

no ogi stahp

[DkKoba]

Nero's dayplay is incriminating enough, no need to bring ogi in

[DkKoba]

Nah. I like spew

[DkKoba]

Okay, so maybe Nero is Scum.

Hows the crow taste ;p

[DkKoba]

Im acsetic its impossible

[DkKoba]

about what I'd expect as a take from a scum on a team that chose not to kill me lol

[DkKoba]

i took very extreme measures including fullclaimimg my role to prevent another wagon on norwee to get kyouko limmed

[DkKoba]

If u think i do that as scum.. LMAO

Also poggers sora in smash

[DkKoba]

I mean we can very nicely test titus claim now at any time bc its evens so hey

[DkKoba]

I think I might as well claim here. I'm bulletproof and was trying to bait the night kill by softing detective all of yesterday. I think it worked cause no night kill happened

*checks to see if this is a mastina setup bc lol*

[DkKoba]

nvm lol

[DkKoba]

Ah well we gained a mislim poggies
if a roleblocker went on someone within POE they should still claim who they blocked tho

[DkKoba]

i wanna switch to nero/cookie but first I need a votecount

[DkKoba]

G

r

e

a

t

p

a

r

t

y

y

o

u

g

o

t

g

o

i

n

g

!

W

h

o

i

s

u

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f

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i

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i

n

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i

o

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?

My neighbor Rannygazoo, who had only terse conversations with my predecessor, did not even snuggle up to me even once during this long, cold night.

My brief attempt at flirting was rejected, no one was debriefed. If you can’t love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love somebody else! Can I get an amen?

This is towny
UNVOTE:
Also with neighbors claimed im gonna retract masons but like we're blatant enough town so hey

[DkKoba]

Quiet hoods are pretty scum indicative *usually*
Depending on player meta

[DkKoba]

Whos in the hood?

[DkKoba]

id like to know if thats just a 2 person hood or a full hood

[DkKoba]

(I.e. are there more ppl)

I have reason to believe nero slot scum flip implicates the hood. Norwee might get what i mean

[DkKoba]

Id like the replacement for nero to speak before we powerlim it

[DkKoba]

The "Make Norwee and Koba doubt each other" tactic is not going to work mate. Not for one second.

this

[DkKoba]

kyouko lived and can vote????


wtf how can we kill her now she isnt even in the votecount anymore rn

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Nero

(also kerset, T3=Hakai)

[DkKoba]

@mama ru/ranny please claim the full makeup of who is in your hood. If there is a PT cop, we might as well out this info at this point.

[DkKoba]

ok mama ru slot was like one of my top FOS but like now they're too funny to be limmed hahahahhaa(plus the hood thing)

[DkKoba]

i think kyouko and nero knew there was a hood btw - and thats why they were sure of norwee/I not being masons and trying to discred us. not because we were unconvincing, but because of knowledge of a neighborhood and then assuming that a hood + masonry would not exist.

[DkKoba]

I think we're jumping the gun on the hood assumption. Scum likely just cried about masons due to their power possibily. It could also be Nero throwing a fit

it was very bizarre to be questioned for the claim - that was what really pinged me. because everything *did* point towards us being masons in the way that we treated eachother.

so i think yes this contributes to it - i think there is also the knowledge of the hood that helps.

[DkKoba]

seems unlikely 2 experienced players would lie about their roles for no reason as town

Naivete is so cute.

house/cookie unpaired

[DkKoba]

VOTE: ranny

[DkKoba]

I would harbor scepticism, but i also didn’t find Titus scummy prior so it was whatever.

Yeah, but see, you would have more of a question about my own alignment based on my certainty if you disagreed with the statement, right? Wondering if it was TMI?

This doesn't feel genuine

[DkKoba]

conftown based on what?
Care to share the thought process so I can understand?

[DkKoba]

bc titus- the more i think about it - the more i feel you may be implicated by the fact dwlee was targeted because other than you idk who looks for pr crumbs when scum.
I personally look for pr tells and not crumbs - because crumbs are faked by vts all the time - but i know you do look for em.
I do have reasons to townread you but also they are also equally countered by the reasons to scumread you - so help me out, i value your pov as town on slots i personally struggle to read. I really want to know how you reached House town.

[DkKoba]

is this the new nero lmao

[DkKoba]

IK IM SO LATE BUT HOLD ON WAIT THIS IS ACTUALLY HILARIOUS.

I KNEW SSBM WAS GONNA FLIP RED AND I THINK KOBA KNEW WHAT I WAS DOING LOL

wasnt even paying attention to u tbh

[DkKoba]

Id have a chance to believe that if house voted kyouko after their claim

[DkKoba]

Fancy pants mech plays are 100% within titus scumrange but im not so sure about townrange.
Saw her crumb overtly as jailkeeper before tho so the theres that.
I'm mainly concerned that titus has seen me snipe kyouko's alignment 3 times in a row and resisted the kyouko wagon -
If house is town here i do trust him to find titus if she is town though because he def did find scum her while she was playing her heart out

[DkKoba]

Alright. I'm not sold on Norwee being Town. I think Nero could have been scum because LOL!Meta.

I like cookie a lot more after their back and forth with Norwee.

just sheep the person with a confident townread on him that also buried scum d1(thats me)

[DkKoba]

We'll be we should def just policy quick if we get to limlo-1 bc yeah theyre gonna prob vote town in limlo bc he cant accept yhey were wrong d1 lol

[DkKoba]

I don't really mind what Quick thinks of me because arguing with him is boring.

based

[DkKoba]

"you can't bui-"

let me stop you right there.

bad take.

you aren't me - you don't use wording the same way I do. you are trying to weave a narrative that doesn't exist.

Grasping at straws is all you are doing.

I was pressuring Kyouko because obviously no one is good enough like me to read kyouko as consistently as I have before. I was pretty much the only one pushing her when she was scum both times at the start and it took evidence to be gathered to get others to sheep. part of this game is convincing others - and part of that process is gathering the evidence that helps others see what you are seeing if you are able to reach correct conclusions sooner than most.

What scum motivation do I have to "pretend to build pressure" and want them dead? What are you on about with this?

Scum want to miselim Town. That could be a possible motivation you have for pushing this so strongly.

Quick i could bury you so easy and so could norwee as scum. You played like you were kyouko partner d1. Accept that norwee is objectively town as a counterwagon to the flipped scum + who helped bury scum

[DkKoba]

@quick did *any* of your reads change based on kyouko flip btw?

[DkKoba]

answer the reads question quick - did you reeval at all after kyouko flipped scum?

[DkKoba]

tbh my townread on quick is hella weakening the more quick talks and is inconsistent with gamestate reality.
it worked d1 but it isn't flying after we flipped a scum

[DkKoba]

VOTE: andres reread some of d1 and like yeah.
i like this for now might consider quick if they dont towntell soon

[DkKoba]

This game has a really bad case of group think.

Plan to catch up this afternoon.

Tell me what the groupthink consensus is.

That the loud voices are right about everything.

this post aged incredibly well in light of d1 flip

[DkKoba]

answer the reads question quick - did you reeval at all after kyouko flipped scum?

How about you answer my questions first.

I have flipped a scum this game already. You don't get to make the demands here anymore.

[DkKoba]

Unless you say I am scum - I do not feel obligated to answer any questions that aren't meant to help me update my own reads.

[DkKoba]

I'm hesitant to lay bare my cards on reading Dkkoba as they can use it against me if i turn out to be correct about my method of reading them.

You are overreacting for someone who isn't even being voted right now and only being verbally pressured.

[DkKoba]

oops didnt mean to quote that.

[DkKoba]

im doing things dw.

i just think its hilarious that the counterwagon to scum is being considered scum somehow instead of looking for scum on that counterwagon

[DkKoba]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

With 16 players alive it takes 9 to eliminate

ssbm_Kyouko (5): Almost50, NorwegianBoyEE, Dwlee99, Rannygazoo, Hakai,

NorwegianBoyEE (3): Andresvmb, LicketyQuickety, Nero Cain,

Loftwing (3): Titus, MargotRosa, DkKoba,
Dwlee99 (2): Wake88, Loftwing,
Almost50 (1): GrandpaMo,
DkKoba (1): ssbm_Kyouko,
LicketyQuickety (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Hakai (0):
Wake88 (0):
Titus (0):
GrandpaMo (0):
Andresvmb (0):
MargotRosa (0):
cool cookie (0):
Rannygazoo (0):

Not voting (1): cool cookie,

Deadline: (expired on 2021-10-02 17:00:00)

V/LA: Wake88 till Tuesday

crazy because these 3 names all ping my scumdar atm

[DkKoba]

tbh - i think ranny might have tried to bus all his teammates potentially if quick is somehow town here -

[andres, nero, kyouko, ranny]

[DkKoba]

I need ranny to explain their thought flow surrounding their read on Kyouko throughout d1.

[DkKoba]

crazy because these 3 names all ping my scumdar atm

That's nice. So what exactly is Scummy about what I am doing? Or are you just succumbing to your feelings about you not liking that I'm not sheeping you?

You voted a counterwagon to scum.

Why should I even townread you?

[DkKoba]

also nero/ranny/kyouko all yelling about how im not mason would be such a fitting way to out themselves with TMI

[DkKoba]

I don't wanna be one of the "meta is GOD" kids, but i will say that all of Andres/Nero/T3 feel vastly different from what i'd expect from their town!game.
Pretty amazing for one game.

t3 has the highest potential for a miss there - t3 is just hard to read conventionally because they are very chaotic as either alignment lol. they did help flip scum so there's that.

[DkKoba]

im gonna see if i can read cool cookie iso and take them off the table here. removing them from the limpool would probably straight up win the game here if they're town.

[DkKoba]

crazy because these 3 names all ping my scumdar atm

That's nice. So what exactly is Scummy about what I am doing? Or are you just succumbing to your feelings about you not liking that I'm not sheeping you?

You voted a counterwagon to scum.

Why should I even townread you?

I suppose you are assuming Town never vote for a counter wagon to Scum. That seems to be your argument. Let's see, who isn't just going along with everything you say? Oh, right that's me. Still think I am doing that as Scum? Do Scum normally play so controversially? These are questions you are not asking so I am asking them for you.

BTW, I was the first person in D2 who thought Nero was Scum.

That's cool - but half of my point is that I have no reason to even trust your reads here because you are refusing to acknowledge that you are not in a position to be the loud and leading one out of pride. If you look at my towngames, when I hardpush a townie and miss or fail to get onto a scum wagon because i am snowed by them or whatever reason, I do actually show humility next dayphase. I know the last time we played i was very loltown - but I've improved a *ton* since then.

[DkKoba]

norwee can you take a look at ranny's ISO for me and tell me if you think he's just bussing people / TMIing?

[DkKoba]

ok i read like 4 posts from cool cookie and i think they're like pretty townie ngl.

high complex thought process that is also natural/not agenda driven.

especially liked their reaction to my calling them in a solve I threw out with their own name in it as well as an already flipped scum.

[DkKoba]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think there's anyone following their reads that might be trying to avoid suspicion?

that's exactly what i was implying. or to frame it differently, if scum aren't doing that, it's a strategic error.

What is your read on SSB Andres. Do you scumread them?

Here’s my take - the reason I haven’t defended Kyouko aggressively despite seriously questioning Koba is because if I’m wrong about Koba (and I can be - Koba is notoriously hard to read) is because Kyouko admitted that Koba has their number, and yet they’re not screaming

hard

to get Koba executed. There’s not a whole lot of outrage in 461 or 480 for example. Just some surprise, a rather meek admission that Koba does have Kyouko’s number, and some strategic discussion about how Koba might go about using their 100% read rate to their advantage as Scum.

I am comfortable applying the burden of proficiency standard to a select

few

players. The number is small, and since I haven’t played here enough most of those players are in the old forum I used to play in. Koba is in that list. I have a feeling Kyouko agrees that the standard should apply to Koba too. If that’s indeed the case, then why aren’t they more outraged that Koba is reading them wrong and hard dunking on them? And why are they letting me take all the heat here? I’ve been in games with players I know can easily tell when I’m Town. I know how that feels like. And when they’re hedging on my slot (and I’m acting like my usual Town self), or even worse, calling me Scum, I obviously get suspicious. I’m always skeptical even if you have me right, but with some players it becomes more obvious when they should be reading you correctly but aren’t.

At the same time, I have seen Koba get some things wrong (of course, none of us are perfect). But after screaming this loud for an execution? I think that’s maybe a bit rare. If we flip Kyouko, and they flip Scum, Koba is going to get NK’ed and well, that’ll be that. But if they’re wrong? Then what? That’s going to be hard. What I’ve done in the past in situations like this is advocated for the “1v1” to get sorted, and go from there. I don’t know that I’m the one who should be making this argument. But I think it should be considered.

this is pretty bad, especially in a Koba-Kyouko TvT world.

Could you explain why you think this is bad? I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter.

in essence, it's saying:

Flip Kyouko today. if town, flip Koba tomorrow. potentially setting up multiple mis-elims, under the guise of "dkkoba is always right".

more generally, selectively applying 'burden of proficiency' is a real easy mafia tactic. would be interesting to know if the consensus/evidence from past games is that andres does hold koba in such high esteem.

nah yeah cookie is town - this is like anti-TMI

[DkKoba]

concentrating power into a select few people who are objectively town is actually a Good Play in a Large, actually.

[DkKoba]

holy shit why did i ever think cookie was scum, their iso feels so pure??

[DkKoba]

maybe Rannygazoo is not all bad - i like some of the earlier stuff. but some hint of knowing more than he should, and an interesting evolution in thoughts overall. basically rannygazoo begins with a bit of stand-offishness towards the claimed masons, then rueful at 2 potential town loudplayers on the same page, and finally capitulates and sheeps with no diguise. some other points i noted...

Spoiler:

Can we stop this shitty wagon on town!Dwlee and many sus slots defending scum!SSBM for dumb reasons.

I do not vibe with this. I don’t think Norwee has enough towncred to make demands like this.

But prove me wrong. Why should we wagon Kyo, aside from Koba’s intuition for meta? I can’t read her by myself since all she’s done is talk about catching up, followed by a whole lot of not catching up. I just don’t like to vote based on someone else’s vibes unless I have nothing better to go on.

the cynic in me wonders if this is asking for a case to piggyback on, given where we end up...

the walkback on SSB:

@Koba and @Nowree once we put this behind us, what is next on the agenda? Elim SSB immediately or wait for their V/LA to end?

Andres, I’ve read through and seen you complain about weak votes from Norwee and Titus, and people reading your meta wrong.

Would it be fair to say you’ve been caught for the wrong reasons?

This looks weird to me, anyon eplayed with Ranny before? It feels like the classic "fairish" scumtell, also the words dont seem to match the intent.

Like what is expected here Ranny? What do you expect Andre's to say and what do you get from that? This feels snipish.

We have pages of discussion about you and this is one of the few things you want to focus on? I’ve been trying to stay prudent and keep the game level-headed and this makes me feel like I was wrong to do so. Smdh my head.

VOTE: SSB

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think Koba is town and scum are sheeping, or do you think Koba is scum trying to strongarm the game?

this is a red flag - it was very clear i think that i was implying the former, so setting up the latter may be a bit of misrep/distancing from the truth.

I don’t think Norwee is the move today.

On the contrary, if we had ended the day so early, I would have taken it much more seriously that y’all might be scum trying to strongarm the game, regardless of the flip.

still on the strongarming. maybe TMI.

also like really fucking mindmelding with this post


tbh - feel ready to welcome cookie into the townblock if the rest are ok with it.

[DkKoba]

@norwee/dwlee/a50 thats you 3 atm

especially 100% put cool cookie as cleared town on ranny scumflip.

[DkKoba]

dwlee is town because:
a) they're in their townrange
b) they don't have distinct scum/town meta, they are actually fairly similar but i do not believe you know the difference like I do. (a recent mini finished where I noticed it)
c) they were early on kyouko with us
d) there was no kill and no one else has spoken up about why that is. i.e. no roleblocker or doc has claim, and they claimed BP. mechanically this is pretty sound.

[DkKoba]

Why is DW Town?

They claimed some bulletproof role or something and there was no kill on night 1.

I have reason to believe they are not BP.

then fucking claim your result lmfao

[DkKoba]

don't hide shit and then expect people to *know*

you are never getting nightkilled this game and it would be a boon if you did.

[DkKoba]

that isn't at all incompatible lol ??
a 1 shot BP + gated commuter is fine - there seems to be a trend so far that the theme this game is roleblocked actions.

im literally an ascetic - a guaranteed kill. scum might be informed or even have a strongman that they holstered.

dwlee is pretty towny on dayplay.

[DkKoba]

like you think


scum dwlee is like


*yo* let me no kill and give town a mislim and *then* claim bp.

dwlee can do some fucky stuff as scum but that is not reasonable scumrange for them.

[DkKoba]

Btw if someone has like a doc protect or something from N1 you shouldn't claim it thinking it contradicts my claim because it doesn't. Seems like we might have a lot of protective power this game

i mean like scum literally had an ascetic to kill that buried a scum on a silver platter and they chose not for whatever reason lmfao

[DkKoba]

i really do want ranny to explain why they were pushing nero/andres/kyouko

[DkKoba]

(also we ignored mechs and buried scum kyouko so let's keep ignoring mechs)

[DkKoba]

ok im impatient, i was trying to pretend quick was a potential lim here from me to bait scum into voting there but i think i dont need to do that and we can just vote ranny w/e lol

i still think they're spewed town off kyouko etc.

[DkKoba]

@dwlee if you're trying to play fancy by claiming BP please retract now.

because it isn't helpign the gamestate and scum know who they killed and norwee was a liklier choice than you(and even a50 to be honest).

and I disagree that if another player could have stopped a kill shouldnt claim. because if they exist they are likely ccing you atp with quick's claim too - regardless I want ranny here first everytime off how they treated kyouko slot.

[DkKoba]

my only hesistence on andres being scum is that they 100% would have killed me but also a scum nero has enough ego to override that kill - so nero slot dies before andres everytime.

[DkKoba]

1-shot Friendly Neighbor.

Oh nvm they claimed friendly neighbor.
Well, same shit. They said things like "you're not an real mason" and asking me "why i went along with it".

yeah - I understand ranny/loftwing doing it now regardless of alignment because like... they actually have the role but like people not in the hood? nah.

[DkKoba]

It is hard to keep track of this many players this early.

That’s why I think everyone making a reads list is weird.

idk if u have played in a large before but a good strategy is to try to mainly just try to find people you can feel comfortable as town, or at least not voting out day 1 and then go from there.

I tried this and I can’t. Most everyone is a suspect.

I’m not scumreading you but I wish you wouldn’t lie about being mason.

like this is NAI based on the now claimed role, because its natural to assume no masons.

[DkKoba]

On read of gamma iso i think that slot is town btw
margot also feels town based on what i know of her.

[DkKoba]

oh wait gamma replaced wake


i thought wake was town too but i just didnt personally like him bc yeah - see ban post for why lmao

[DkKoba]

Koba why don't you let me play fun

because u need to claim in a way that helps the gamestate... like when norwee and i claimed masons together it helped steer the wagons strictly towards only kyouko LOL u claiming BP does... nothing bc scum knows who they targeted.

[DkKoba]

Townlocks:
A50
Dwlee
Norwee

Hard town:
Cool Cookie
Quick
Mama Ru(moves up to locktown on ranny scumflip)

Probably town:(the tier where I think I could actually be wrong starts here - so when I die reeval from here downwards if we start approaching limlo)
Titus
GrandpaMo
Gamma Emerald
House(based on margot slot and the fact titus and house are townreading eachother, these 2 have good track records reading eachother)
Hakai

prob not town lol:
Ranny
charlemange
Andres


holy balls my poe is exactly 3 people lmao

if any of them are wrong teh game gets harder but hey

[DkKoba]

grandpa/hakai should be examined much closer if any of the bottom 3 flip town.

[DkKoba]

quick... can you like cite any games where you actually catch a scum on your own that no one else is seeing?

[DkKoba]

like i value your perspective as one of my townreads but like - i can only trust you as far as your track record actually speaks.

which in my experience is pushing town nearly all game.

[DkKoba]

like genuinely if you want to improve your accuracy *you* are the one who needs to listen to others instead of like telling others to listen to you - because how can you be wrong so many times in a row and still like call us bad while we are getting hits??

[DkKoba]

i'm just flaberghasted reading your game history because like i really wish you would like at least show a *little* humility or awareness of the impact your play has in your game history like .. please?