Large Normal 228: Bananas - Game Over

[Nahdia]

flawless reasoning

VOTE: Tchill13

[Nahdia]

Cakez! Hi!

VOTE: osuka

[Nahdia]

Cakez! Hi!

VOTE: osuka

YOURE ALIVE

Spoiler: gif

[Nahdia]

yikes

[Nahdia]

you

[Nahdia]

More votes on osuka, please and thank you friends.

Also dang mod, that 4xBump Combo. Never in all my years have I seen such a daring maneuver.

[Nahdia]

the black ranger wagon is bad. wanton aggression is towny or null at worst. in my experience scum are careful to not ruffle feathers, especially this early.

please join me on the osuka wagon. thanks in advance.

[Nahdia]

also hi titus!! long time no play. hope u r well.

[Nahdia]

then do tell. reveal unto me your divine intuition, master cakez.

[Nahdia]

fascinating stuff

[Nahdia]

yup

[Nahdia]

im just enjoying the view, friend bob.

[Nahdia]

why, are you scumreading them both?

[Nahdia]

why, are you scumreading them both?

Nope

But I will find out who came out of that exchange worse off.

....then what was even the point of that question?

[Nahdia]

VOTE: fwogcarf

[Nahdia]

so realtalk, did anyone else just like... not read the whole bob/osuka thing? show of hands? o/

Why?

sarcasm, my dude

Nahdia seems sort of townie? I haven't played with her in ages so my meta is junk.

mmmmm why? any reasoning besides stale meta?

[Nahdia]

yeah bob's "lol it's fun to mess with people" post is kind of wild but not sure what to make of it. combined with wording in 183 bob kinda just feels a bit performative to me? a bit too loose? idk, tone reads are bad, but im making note of it here anyway. fight me

fwogcarf is not exactly giving me town pings but I need someone to explain the wagon because right now it looks to be based on some pretty weak surface-level points. Still want a response from Bob in particular re. 139.

didn't like this:

Spoiler: brief exchange

Does scum theater this early

why, are you scumreading them both?

Nope

But I will find out who came out of that exchange worse off.

....then what was even the point of that question?

To spark conversation

seemed shady, like they were giving the suggestions of a scumread without actually, yakno, giving a scumread. and defending weird questions as "sparking conversation" is bleh.

pedit oh yea happy birthday wake.

[Nahdia]

i legitimately just didnt want to read it.

[Nahdia]

eh, alright. point retracted i guess.

[Nahdia]

VOTE: SirCakez Dislike some of your posts.
Post 65, it's apparently a "scummy reaction" from BR to shit on a guy making story time in the Mafia thread? Why would that be indicative of scumminess? The story thing had nothing to do with the game, so any emotional outburst from it you can apparently deduce as scum/town?
Post 137, Nahdia asked why you scumread BR and you give some half-assed explanation about scum trying to get in "content". I do not see what you mean? Post 141 elaborates, but why would a single RVS vote give off such an strong reaction from you?

qft

felt a bit uneasy about cakez townread on me but not sure what to make of the reasoning, null i guess. my initial ping was their RVS vote since he confirms he knew titus was an IC (i actually missed it until i looked back after reading osuka's post so at first i cut him some slack). feels like a very "safe" early vote and is transparently worthless, hence my vote in 14.

Fwog wagon is still ???

you asked and i answered. dont ignore me, friend umlaut. if you're going to cast shade, you must be willing to step into the sun.

hey here's an idea. bob, pls like, take a chill pill.

[Nahdia]

hi, sorry, im here. just feeling drained in general and i kind of feel like joining another large was maybe a bit overambitious of me. i will catchup.

[Nahdia]

i legitimately just didnt want to read it.

Ping. You're in a game about reading. It was painful, I agree, but skimming is something scum would do, not town.

oh to be young and naive.

fwog is actually really towny imo the wagon should not be there

why, friend manatee?

On another note:

Spoiler:

More votes on osuka, please and thank you friends.

Also dang mod, that 4xBump Combo. Never in all my years have I seen such a daring maneuver.

This irks me because it has never been explained and I can't see a thought process.

i actually did explain my thought process. osuka voting someone he knew was an IC. i wanted to pressure that. see 242.

I don't think a Nahdia wagon would be bad, but i'd like to settle some scores first.

what a weird post.


really not a fan of how fwog goes from calling me "meh" to naked voting me after someone outs a SR. when in their previous post where they called me meh they gave what looks like more suggestions of scumreads (calling Cakez and Drew reachy) and also calling Osuka scum by tone. but they still have their RVS vote up and dont bother moving it.

[Nahdia]

of course. a reaction test. yes.

"discovered skimming" as if i was caught red handed when i literally just said it out loud without prompting. okay.

[Nahdia]

if you honestly think town wouldn't skim over a page full of angsty wallposts at the very start of the game, idk what to tell you. that's just straight up wrong.

[Nahdia]

I'll admit to a little OMGUS but knowing I'm town the desire to do a lynch on me early reads very scummily

scumposting

[Nahdia]

okay im actually gonna get into this game. will give some reads on titus' list, though im not super thrilled wit hthe idea of just restricting focus to three slots forr the rest of the day.

also oh gosh i forgot this game has shorter deadlines.

[Nahdia]

kinda feel like ive forgotten how to play this game. not that i was ever any good as town to begin with.

i kee pwriting thoughts but then looking it back over and convincing myself of the opposite. so im just gonna ask questions and see where it gets me.

cakez, when you said you felt like i was town you hedged by saying your meta is really old so therefore maybe invalid. is there anything specific from my townplay that you were thinking of there? also would like to hear more on your fwog thoughts actually. like, i see you basically quoting a few posts and shading them and i dont necessarily disagree but i need some INSIGHT to your thought process here.

gonna go read over drew and bob. actually feel like titus narrowing the pool makes this game easier to approach in a way, which is nice. feels like less of a gargantuan task if im just looking at them.

[Nahdia]

i kind of glossed over the echoing thing when i first saw it. the only one that really feels off to me is 139/210. the first one doesnt actually feel like an echo, especially since it was a prompted response to a question. and the last one is actually something i myself had said even earlier in the thread, so i can see that just being concurrent thoughts since it's not groundbreaking.

[Nahdia]

mmmm drew's ISO has a lot of ?'s though there is some followup at least. didnt like them accusing umlaut of slipping.

drew do you have any updated thoughts on umlaut's slot or are you content on this deathtunnel?

[Nahdia]

hey norway can u elaborate ur mindset on 369? specifically with regards to sayin u want to end day 1 discussion.

[Nahdia]

hot take, have norway answer that first.

[Nahdia]

LYSANDEROTH, YOU WERE BEHIND ALL THIS?

[Nahdia]

Norwegian is town and I don't blame them for wanting to end day early

Hot take of the century

I want to know why you read him this way and I want to know why getting to night is in any way a town based behaviour.

I didn't see his motivation and progress as a scummy way to go about things

But after seeing his response I'm not so sure that's a town mindset anymore

i mean i pretty much got exactly what i expected from his response. what were you looking for that would have indicated town?

[Nahdia]

like chilean miners osmethin something.

[Nahdia]

emerging from the depth, so too have i emerged with wisdom for you all

[Nahdia]

it's coming. wait forit.

[Nahdia]

the wisdom is that fwog is mafia.
and fenraiser is towny
and im coming around on cakez being maybe town also. his progression on BR is good and while i dont agree with the logic on his norway push, it feels like genuine hunting. i think scum!cakez would deathroll it more. can see the gears turning there better.
519 on the other hand is a transparent scum reaction.

@drew do you always scumhunt by looking for "slips"? I am being highkey triggered by your play bc normally i consider calling things slips which arent a scumtell, but i feel like you've been doing it so much that maybe we just have different definitions of those words?

i will lynch manatee. 536 is bad (the second point about the omgus). it's not an illogical point, but i dont buy that manatee is a paragon of logic that believes anything not perfectly rational is scummy.

[Nahdia]

VOTE: manatee

[Nahdia]

i mean im all ears.

[Nahdia]

the wisdom is that fwog is mafia.
and fenraiser is towny
and im coming around on cakez being maybe town also. his progression on BR is good and while i dont agree with the logic on his norway push, it feels like genuine hunting. i think scum!cakez would deathroll it more. can see the gears turning there better.
519 on the other hand is a transparent scum reaction.

@drew do you always scumhunt by looking for "slips"? I am being highkey triggered by your play bc normally i consider calling things slips which arent a scumtell, but i feel like you've been doing it so much that maybe we just have different definitions of those words?

i will lynch manatee. 536 is bad (the second point about the omgus). it's not an illogical point, but i dont buy that manatee is a paragon of logic that believes anything not perfectly rational is scummy.

>Fwog is mafia
>I want to lynch Manatee

Honestly that is pretty weird. Nahdia, why not push a fwog lynch if that's who you think is most likely scum?

there is less than a day and the IC is callng them town.

[Nahdia]

people were talking about compromising on manatee. i looked at manatee. i decided i agree.

posts like this are why fwog are scum tho.willfully ignoring the obvious in order to support a scumread. same thing i pointed out as in 519.

[Nahdia]

$10 says if i had started pushing fwog harder, fwog would have hopped in and said "look at nahdia trying to form a counterwagon with less than a day left!!!1! anti-town behavior!!!"

[Nahdia]

people were talking about compromising on manatee. i looked at manatee. i decided i agree.

posts like this are why fwog are scum tho.willfully ignoring the obvious in order to support a scumread. same thing i pointed out as in 519.

what obvious point did i ignore

the thing. i literally. just explained.

holy shit. sorry im like, really angry right now. for outside reasons. but i dont know how to even respond to this.

$10 says if i had started pushing fwog harder, fwog would have hopped in and said "look at nahdia trying to form a counterwagon with less than a day left!!!1! anti-town behavior!!!"

Not sure how you propose to decide who wins that bet but okay.

Do you think I'm scum too? I picked that up and also pushed you on it so I must have also missed this obvious thing.

no i guess not. okay maybe from an outside perspective it's not as obvious. but to explain my perspective.

fwog is scum. but pushing him has gotten nowhere all day. and the IC says theyre town. and there's one day left. and frankly, i DO think it will be anti-town for me to try and create a counterwagon with 24 hours left. and i do think manatee is a perfectly fine lynch, which other people were discussing at that moment. it's not as if i pulled a random name out of a hat. there was discussion of compromising due to the deadline, and i am on board with compromising.

fuck.

[Nahdia]

??? what why

[Nahdia]

I'll be around for the rest of the deadline. Drew, you gonna claim?

[Nahdia]

yeah alright

VOTE: Drew

[Nahdia]

gonna go ahead and plug that i actually think manatee was a decent lynch, for the post i highlighted (536, reasons in 630). if this flips town should seriously look at how that wagon got derailed.

[Nahdia]

now that the game has ended, i can give some more context for my manatee read. i normally dont like meta but this feels contradictory:

Cakez's random "bad post" pop ins have been one ping for me. I also pointed out him miscontruing norwees words in an attempt to omgus.

he also literally said that bc he knows hes town that he automatically reads the push on him as scummy.. as if thats reasonable at all.

yeah? you seemed v understanding in those 1st two - what changed?

Just a part of my meta im self aware of. Despite responding cordially to your push I still am aware of my own bias against people pushing me

in one game, town!manatee admits he has a bias towards people scumreading him, because he knows he's town. in the next game, manatee scumreads someone for pretty much that exact mindset, calling it unreasonable.

[Nahdia]

i..... dont see the difference.

[Nahdia]

i mean i guess in a strict sense i do. but i dont see how u would consider what cakez said totally unreasonable if it's something you know you're guilty of yourself. if anything, iwould think that's a reason to townread cakez?

[Nahdia]

Neapolitan

[Nahdia]

Umlaut's terrible vote onto drew... after they were the one that suggested the wagon so close to deadline in the first place? and drew ended up being scum? go look at the end of the day; Umlaut is the one that unvoted manatee and suggested maybe we go for Drew instead. THEN osuka places the first vote.

[Nahdia]

lot of OMGUSing in this thread, it feels like.

[Nahdia]

If Umlaut is a serial killer, make him scum's problem by obvtowning him.

What? In my experience serial killers are usually bulletproof. Why should we not try to lynch him? SK is just as likely to kill a bunch of townies as opposed to making a mafia shot. And if you notice we lost 2 PR's yesterday. Why on earth would we willingly try to obvtown a serial killer?

so do you think umlaut is the serial killer then? or are u just arguing theory? cause BR's case on umlaut, which u said u agree with, was suggesting they're partners with Drew.

[Nahdia]

I think Manatee is probably town.

I agree Manatee is probably town here

why

[Nahdia]

{BR, Cakez, fwog, Norway, Manatee}
could also lynch puppy i guess. there were some things that pinged me but it was mostly tonal which is unreliable so meh.

Black Ranger's umlaut push reads like someone decided who they were gonna push first and then made a case later. i think point 6 in 862 is telling, lol. norways agreement is equally wild and his arguing theory with the IC just feels like scum tryna generate content.

umlaut is right, cakez jumping in and saying "i know i dont look great here" is bad, especially along side what amounts to a policy lurker lynch.

dont feel like manatee being counterwagon to drew is a good reason to stop looking at that slot. in 940 he says he bussed drew but like... from him it was literally a just survival vote with no content. which isn't like, bad, but it feels actually so boldfaced disingenuous to go back and say "why would i buss him like that!?" when he had no part in that wagon.

VOTE: Cakez

[Nahdia]

cakez can you explain why you felt like you looked bad coming into today?

[Nahdia]

on review cakez actually does raise an interesting point about norway not making many novel observations today.

[Nahdia]

:\ game is hard. maybe it's nothing. i do agree the way he outed them just by calling agreeing with someone "sheeping" with no explanation is a bit flat.

[Nahdia]

Black Ranger's umlaut push reads like someone decided who they were gonna push first and then made a case later. i think point 6 in 862 is telling, lol.

This is clearly a tongue in cheek comment that I made. I went ALL over why Umlaut's case against me sucked and have been beating that drum all day. How he phrased his initial reason of suspecting me (the word choice of "someone" didn't bus) to how he presented my end of day content to who a bus vote would be to an analysis of the purity of the Drew wagon. You don't get to reduce my already humorous reduction as something you can both laugh at

and

speak out against. Either you find it funny, because you GET the humor, or you don't and you want to speak out about it. If you do both, you're producing fake content.

This isn't the first time you've criticized it. You immediately followed up my 862 with:

lot of OMGUSing in this thread, it feels like.

VOTE: Nahdia

You've been sniping around on the sidelines all game. Get serious.

ok this post is all kinds of goofy. your point 6 can be both a joke

and

telling. i wasnt trying to paint it as a super serious point you made, but i do think you come across as being very concerned with how people are reading you. hence it being telling.

i dont really see what's meant by im "sniping from the sidelines". ive given my reads, ive voted who i think are scum. sorry im not willing to put in the absolute maximum effort, but i just don't have that in me as a player anymore these days.

[Nahdia]

Cakez wagon looks spicy but not spicy enough

wanna elaborate on what this means?

[Nahdia]

Black Ranger is there a reason why you seem so certain someone was bussing drew? i dont see why it cant have been all town

[Nahdia]

why not? it was a last minute wagon on a powerful scum role.

Off-wagon were Black Ranger, SirCakes and CantLynchAPuppy for reference.

and wake and fwog.

[Nahdia]

im not saying there defo wasn't any scum. it just pings me to see people working under the assumption that there was definitely 100% scum there. as if they know that for a fact.

[Nahdia]

Not gonna buy any "no scum on Drew wagon" stuff

again my point isn't that i think there definitely wasn't any scum on drew's wagon. my point is that i think it's scummy to use "someone bussed drew" as a foundational assumption when there's a distinct possibility it was all town. feels like a logical leap shortcut to look like your reads are justified.

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Black Ranger

[Nahdia]

I feel like there's too much tolerance for underperformance in this game. The lynch is a destination. How we get there is more important than lynching scum. Investment is how we'll color slots versus rolling some weighted dice.

I don't want to hold people to some great standard of "must case everything that you make impact with" or "must have a strong opinion" but you should be able to find some way to help the town. If that's your wincon at least.

Do you think my Nahdia case has the capabilities of being implemented today?

Why she questioned cakez' townread on her is the biggest reason why I scumread her, that and why she was so willing to lynch Manatee when Manatee wasn't a good lynch.

fuck off with this nonsense. speaking as someone who just got thoroughly trounced in a large as scum for doing a bad job buddying townies, i 100% had good reason to be skeptical of a townread on me at that point.

and ive explained my reasoning on manatee. i wasnt able to explain the meta component of it d1 because the game was still ongoing, but i have since clarified.

[Nahdia]

fuck off with this nonsense. speaking as someone who just got thoroughly trounced in a large as scum for doing a bad job buddying townies, i 100% had good reason to be skeptical of a townread on me at that point.

and ive explained my reasoning on manatee. i wasnt able to explain the meta component of it d1 because the game was still ongoing, but i have since clarified.

Manatee's response is good enough for me:

Nahdia those contexts are completely different though... one was someone asking me about my read and I gave a tentative read while admitting that bias might play a part in it.

Cakez said because hes town people pushing him automatically makes him suspicious of their slot

There's better reasons to suspect Manatee than this but if I'm the one making a case for you all it really proves is that you don't give a shit about your pocket reads.

Or how about this pocket read:

I'll admit to a little OMGUS but knowing I'm town the desire to do a lynch on me early reads very scummily

scumposting

... Which is the same reason Manatee suspected Cakez over

Cakez's random "bad post" pop ins have been one ping for me. I also pointed out him miscontruing norwees words in an attempt to omgus. he also literally said that bc he knows hes town that he automatically reads the push on him as scummy.. as if thats reasonable at all.

voting cakez based on his miscontruition and reaction to being voted.

I feel so detached from the game like you guys are all players and im just a spectator im not sure of anything anymore. I could reread cakez again if yall could actually be convinced but idk

if I get lynched at this point its understandable im just sorry you had to waste a lynch on me, thought it seems everyone is having difficulty deciding a target so the likelyhood of hitting scum seems low

However you didn't vote Cakez try to do anything with him until today. Yesterday you were absorbed with terrible votes like Fwog and Manatee.

And what's with this obsession with OMGUS? See my point about humor and you giving a tell that you "got it" but still want to challenge me over it, when you already have a history for salivating over these types of posts.

Again, this is all just sideline sniping. You haven't had a worthwhile original idea in 700~ posts. Why anyone is tolerating your slot is beyond me.

this is all a wall of mudslinging nonsense. i explain my manatee vote, you say there are fine reasons to vote for it. then you call it terrible. you've also said in the past that my reasonings on fwog d1 were fine, but now it's also a terrible vote. and you'll notice that my opinion on cakez was shifting over time. I was uneasy on him for reasons I've explained 242 and later but by 630 had seen some stuff i thought indicated he could be town. but his entrance to today as umlaut pointed out was bad, and his reads are surface enough that it's hard to read him on those.

i HAVE had original ideas. ideas you've called terrible! you call my progression on cakez, fwog, manatee, etc all terrible, but now all of a sudden i have no original ideas? what's THAT from? you're just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.

[Nahdia]

Not gonna buy any "no scum on Drew wagon" stuff

again my point isn't that i think there definitely wasn't any scum on drew's wagon. my point is that i think it's scummy to use "someone bussed drew" as a foundational assumption when there's a distinct possibility it was all town. feels like a logical leap shortcut to look like your reads are justified.

I mean there are multiple people who look suspicious and put crappy votes down on the Drew wagon so I kinda do find it a leap to call that wagon all town.

christ. im not going to say the same thing again in different reads. please reread me and see that you're not responding to what i actually said.

[Nahdia]

i mean, it's hard to get excited about a lurkeer lynch. is there stuff he said that you thought was actually scummy?

[Nahdia]

im not inclined to vote for him given that most of what he has posted today has been a slow progress on Black Ranger from town to scum, which is very cash money imo.

[Nahdia]

What's the case on Fenraiser? I have them as town.

[Nahdia]

show me the similarities between reads and manatees/bobs and any evidence i was just using the same reasoning they had already given. go on, i'll wait.

[Nahdia]

.....that sounds like a question you should direct towards manatee, not me.

[Nahdia]

i had a unique reason for scumreading manatee, which ive explained a few times now, and you've even responded to. whether or not Cakez was in fact OMGUSing feels irrelevant, considering im talking about manatee's interpretation, not Cakez' post.

but to answer your quesiton, i sometimes overgeneralize the term OMGUS, but strictly speaking I think the term literally means "scumreaidng someone because theyre scumreading you".

[Nahdia]

buh. prodded.

[Nahdia]

dont have much to add. lucky's logic is fine but we're coming to very different conclusions, so.

willing to lynch wake, i suppose.

[Nahdia]

i would, yes.

VOTE: SirCakez

THIS IS L-1

[Nahdia]

While we're here,

dont have much to add. lucky's logic is fine but we're coming to very different conclusions, so.

Why do you think this is? If you agree with my logic but not my conclusions then there must be some step of analysis that I'm missing. What do you think that is?

my point was more, i dont see obvious logical leaps in what you're saying, but i dont come to the same conclusions. im willing to give you a lot of benefit of the doubt though purely for the effort, considering this game has been slow.

[Nahdia]

I get that. So you believe that I'm operating in good faith, that's good. We can work from there. Even if I'm not making massive jumps with my logic, if we reach different conclusions then either I went wrong somewhere, or you have. What do you think causes us to reach different conclusions? I'm trying to enhance our reads by working through them.

the picture you paint of BR around the drew wagon is possible, but still seems charitable to me. I'm not sure how you figure he was still assuming manatee was the lynch as of 772 based on something that happened before all those new votes had coalesced. i read it more as trying to feel out if the wagon can turn back around on manatee.

I hate the Cakez wagon. Can we get back onto Wake.

eeeeeeehhhh i like that he's scumreading black ranger tho. i really don't see them as partners consider BR is like, the only slot Wake has any progression on so it's not my preference. i'd do it if we cant agree on anything else tho.