Mini 507: Big Brother Mafia - Game Over

[Elmo]

<-- will post tomorrow

[Elmo]

I am amazed that anyone did what Ryan did - if I were scum, the first thing I'd do is look at the townie role PM. Having said that, it seemed fairly obvious to me once he had done it, and I can't think of much reason a townie ("floater") would say that. I also agree with some of the things said about PEG, and am interested in why Skruffs didn't put him up for nomination, but I'm going to concentrate on today's eviction for now.

For most of the game, I would have picked FaerieLord as being the better lynch as I didn't see much bad about VRK, but recently these two points have changed my mind:

In fact, I think anyone who put any stock in that "slip" is full of crap and needs to swing, to be honest.

I think mneme going after ryan for a "slip" was a bit too aggressive. Anyone could have overlooked the stuff on the front page.

The thing is, the thing about 'floaters' would have been in Ryan's ROLE PM. Only scum would have to go to the front page to check on it.

It seemed obvious to me that Ryan got caught out, reading through. I also think VKR has slipped up in a similar way. We've caught one scumbag through a similar slip - it's not guaranteed to work again, but reading it, I very much like the odds.

I won't vote ryan yet for one reason. The unvote, vote thing mneme did on CO. It was incredibly scummy.

I believe you are referring to 419. Why do you find it scummy? If that's the only reason you weren't voting ryan, it seems too weak to me, and ryan turned up scum. I know we've got two scum groups, but it seems a little odd.

I'm currently leaning towards voting VRK, but I don't feel I have a good grip of why FL is nominated - could someone could summarise the cases against him, and anything else against VRK? Someone (Skruffs?) wanted the person I replaced to be voting early - do you still want that, and if so, when do you want me to vote? I am fairly happy voting VKR on the strength of that scumtell, at the moment - I don't see the FL case getting much better than that, unless I've missed something big. I need to reread more, but that should do for now.

[Elmo]

I've had to be prodded more times than I can count in this game

Given the mods policy on having to prod people many times, I find this unlikely - you would likely have been replaced by now. Actually, it's my impression you've been pretty active this game. I also note that because we're not told who was prodded, we have no way of verifying that.

Skruffs is dead on here, a townie wouldn't need to check the front page for the role PM. So my defense of Ryan was based on craplogic on my part, and it looks like I'm going to get shafted for it.

So if you all feel that you've truly caught scum, then lynch me. I know I've been no help up to now because this is just distracting from catching the real scum, and I'm sorry I put the town in this situation where y'all are considering lynching a townie. If there's anything that you need clarifying with, just ask and I'll try to answer questions without making too much more of a mess.

I'm truly sorry if you really are town, but I don't see this getting much better for you.

PEG: I don't understand what you mean. Any comments?

[Elmo]

PEG: Really not sure what you're saying about me, there. I thought that was pointing out VRK has to defend his slip better than simply saying "I'm town".

I am going to

vote

:

Vel-Rahn Koon

, because I think the PM thing is a very strong case, and I don't see much of a convincing case against FaerieLord right now. I don't think it's a question of not paying attention - I think it's a question of seeing things from the mafia's point of view. I thought STD was fine, and I don't have much of a read on FL. I haven't found anyone else making a good anti-FL case, although I haven't read in as much depth as I'd like. Following KScope in 332 is interesting, but I don't really see how that's strong enough for an eviction on its own. Unless I've missed it, there isn't much else there. Perhaps people who've been here since the start are uncomfortable with FL, but I'm pretty happy with this one at the moment. Sorry if you're town, Vel, but it's gotta be you.

[Elmo]

I'm still not feeling FL, but there is no real evidence against him.

Yeah. I'm not saying I think VRK is town, but I really don't get the FL nomination right now. I mean, look at the vote, it's 6 - 0 against by my count. Maybe that's just because VRK looks so bad, but I get the feeling that no-one seems to seriously think FL is scum. I think VRK would have been lynched regardless of the other candidate, but I also think we might have got more out of selecting VRK and someone else.

[Elmo]

TownVel

I don't see much point in a FL nomination if PEG is the only one who thinks FL is scum. If other people want to put him up, that's fine, but otherwise it seems pointless to me. Also, being as unbiased as I can, I don't see what my nomination gets us. The first eviction was two recently replaced-in players, and that was pretty unhelpful. I'm going to read and think more about who I want nominated, but mneme seems to be on everyone's radar at the moment. I'll reread him first, I think.

[Elmo]

As for me, I ain't going anywhere

[Elmo]

I think I'm going to go with

Nominate

:

mneme

&

DragonsofSummer

. DoS, I have a bad feeling about, too much stirring the pot with posts like 191, and I don't like it that he's very anti-lurker when he's HoH on day 1 but hasn't been much of a contributer since, and his Flare nomination was odd. Mneme seems a little too eager to point fingers in any available direction, and I think these two nominations should generate plenty of interesting discussion.

[Elmo]

I'm not quite sure why five other people can throw out suspicion of DoS without much reaction, but suddenly I'm bandwagoning, Skruffs.

[Elmo]

It's 'bad' bandwagoning if I follow other players mindlessly, which I'm not doing. I'm not sure why you dislike me agreeing with other people. If you define (bad) bandwagoning as agreeing with (say) 3 other people, then you're basically objecting to four people agreeing with each other, which is nonsense. So I don't see what you're objecting to, at the moment.

[Elmo]

Skruffs: We may have a case of crossed wires with respect to what I mean by 'stirring the pot'. Does 191 look pro-town to you? I agree that someone can stir the pot in a pro-town way, but that's not what I feel he's doing.

I should probably mention now that I also think Skruffs is pro-town. Definitely leaning towards voting farside, at the moment. (BANDWAGON! )

[Elmo]

Ryan you are the only one who keeps pushing Chaos. Everyone else seems okay with his vote, and I don't know that it is productive for you to keep pushing this.

I'm here I just got back from Vacation today. I will post why I was suspicious of Chaos, and about the noms tomorrow because I am really tired right now.

You haven't mentioned Chaos in-between apart from that. What's caused the change of heart, and why haven't you said anything before?

[Elmo]

EBWOP: You haven't mentioned Chaos apart from that.

Preview is my friend.

[Elmo]

Seconded. Can we do that?

[Elmo]

Bah. So I have to either hammer farside or have some kind of tiebreak thing happen, which

will

result in one of them being evicted. And no-one has any idea how that will work, so I've no idea which one will go.

I just don't want to see Skruffs go over Farside, because I think Skruffs has a better chance of being town. I don't really know about farside. Sorry.

Vote

:

farside22

.

[Elmo]

DoS: Haha, I see. Yeah, I get that a lil'.

Skruffs: I had an odd vibe about PEG, but I'm not sure how much of it is PEG being PEG. I don't understand why he didn't utterly hate the noms, tbh. But here's an interesting line: he says you're town in 606, but you're at the bottom of his

actual

trustworthy list. I don't see how that's defensible, actually - the only way that can happen is if he puts a scumbuddy at the top, to make sure they get nommed, and likely townies at the bottom. Right?

[Elmo]

Unless someone can pick holes in Skruffs's accusation, I can't see how PEG can be town at this point. So it's mostly "PEG and someone else", I guess. I feel more strongly about DoS than mneme, so DoS is probably number two.

[Elmo]

I haven't looked closely, but I don't recall a point in the game where PEG voiced any suspicion of Skruffs. I don't see how he can be

bottom

. I would have much preferred a Farside nom, to be honest.

I'll look over the noms tomorrow.

[Elmo]

Uh, Farside, I think you're not allowed to do that. Beyond that, I obviously can't just believe you're telling the truth about his list, can I? Even if you're not lying, PEG clearly states he finds FL scummy and wants a FL nomination in 606. And now FL is #2 trustworthy? This is extremely dubious.

I am also concerned with Pug's efforts to avoid a DoS nomination. Both mneme and KScope have attacked DoS, and that seems to play a part in their nominations - I don't see this as a good basis for evicting people, to say the least.

KScope has not been very talkative, hum. mneme has been a lil' weird. KScope's lurking means it's a bit tricky to know who's more likely to be scum. I would like each to comment on the other, and anything else interesting - perhaps DoS, seeing as they both seem to have that in common. Thinking a bit more about my vote, for now.

[Elmo]

Still here. Wow, a veto.

FaerieLord: No-one wanted Skruffs up, and you thought he was town. You

voted Skruffs

trying for a tie, when it's clearly stated that a tie results in someone being evicted, and when you could have easily saved him with that power? Leaning towards voting you, at the moment.

[Elmo]

mneme makes an important point, there. If PEG/Farside2 was not AD scum and we don't lynch an AD scum, we lose. Also, if only one of PEG and the person lynched was AD scum, and a remaining AD scum gets HoH next, we lose.

Unless PEG was AD scum, we have to not just hit scum, but the 'right' scum. Hmm. I think there's good arguments as to why either might be scum, but KScope hammered ryan, so he's very probably not PA scum, and I've been getting a weird vibe from him, looking through his posts. I do think FaerieLord might need to go at some point in the future, but this is where my vote goes today.

Vote

:

KaleiÐoscøpe

.

[Elmo]

Yaaaay! So that's 2:2:2? Tight, but we haven't lost.

DoS begs to be nominated. Not sure on #2, maybe Pug, I gotta do some rereading.

[Elmo]

KScope's nominated Faerielord twice. I get the feeling that FL isn't AD scum. If that's true, if Faerielord was lynched, then AD scum win. So people pushing the Faerielord lynch are likely to be AD scum.

I find the events interesting as well. I will need to go read up more on FaerieLord's interactions with other players in the game before I make my decision on who to evict.

@Elmo. I didn't know it lead to an eviction either way. I thought it would tie. That way I could save myself the pressure + save both protown players. Backfired :/

I think this statement is rediculous. All you have to do to know someone will be evicted is read the rules of the game.

vote KScope

not that it matters at this point.

The last one strikes me as making the connection fairly obvious - DoS is disappointed, because he'd just

almost

won.

I think KScope's "first HoH" thing is distancing. There's no way DoS is going to be evicted on that basis, but it's a great excuse to keep nominating him without any real bite behind the nomination.

I'm pretty sure DoS is KScope's buddy. Given the way they're linked to each other thus far, I think Pug might be

his

buddy, although I'm not entirely sure about that. I also have kind of a scummy vibe about mneme, but not a great deal that's concrete; I can't really articulate it. I'm not sure about Faerielord; if I'm wrong about Skruffs being town, it might be him. Hmm. I still prefer Skruffs for town. *shrug* I guess as long as that bit's right, you can shoot 'em all and let mod sort 'em out.

1. DoS
2. Pug
3. mneme
4. Faerielord

[Elmo]

Hey, kuribo!

Skruffs: Did you have an actual reason for nominating me, or what? Why do you believe FaerieLord is scum?

[Elmo]

I can't get much of a read on Scruffs because he does seem genuinely town to me

I dislike playing semantics as much as the next muppet, but does that means you have a townie read or not much of a read? Or both, or what? I don't get how why you think he's scum, at the moment.

[Elmo]

No, I claim Sparticus!

I'm not really following the game now, but hi anyways.

[Elmo]

Hum. I don't have a lot to say, I mean, you want someone from the other mafia gone. You obviously reckon it's Pug, so lynch him. I suppose I should make some kinda threat about who I'd nominate should you chuck me out, but I don't know who your partner is.. I kind of want Skruffs to win, he's played pretty well throughout.

*shrug*

[Elmo]

Skruffs = obv town, DoS = obv scum

Yeah, I wanted to just claim and ask DoS to hammer, but I would have felt like a retard if there was some kind of power that could have changed the outcome. I don't particularly mind, it was over fairly quickly.

*noogies ryan*

mneme: I think I caught on to what you're talking about, but never said anything. I read the game through once, thought for a bit, and thought to myself "hmm, these guys are distanced well". I was fairly sure KScope was distancing with DoS after a bit of thought; I think I kind of drifted towards you, but I can't remember why, exactly. I imagine you must have figured it out by the end, but when and how did you spot me/us?

Personally, I was also trying to concentrate on the other scum rather than town, but we kinda inadvertantly ran out of townies... PEG's computer + Farside's modkill + FaerieLord + VRK's non-slip is quite a combo. I thought Skruffs did well; nominating FaerieLord is probably the only thing he did wrong, and that's entirely understandable.

I thought FL was town (it's fairly obvious from my point of view), and I wanted to try and avoid his lynch because these kind of endgames are unavoidably volatile; Kuribo pretty much played kingmaker.

How was I, Pug?

gg!

[Elmo]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the setup. I would have given the town decent chances to win; in my mind, what lost it for them wasn't related to the setup. I quite like the mechanic, although it does have the potential to get a bit volatile ('swingy') near the end, but I think that's true of any 3:3:6 setup that goes the distance.

[Elmo]

Oh, I thought I already said this: Skruffs, I thought you played quite well. I can perfectly see how FaerieLord looked scummy, and from memory that's the only important slip you made.