503: Dead People Have Powers - Happiness Or Destruction?

[Y]

I always get "random" voted. I'm statistically challenged...

One letter names are so suspicious.

You're right... They always get the mafia roles...

[Y]

The most obvious play is to kill the cop, no-lynch until we have results and then kill all the mafia and the channeler.

Possible problems:
False claims.
Cop's sanity. This could really prevent the town from using said strategy.

As I understand it, there is only one spiritualist. The mafia want him to live, so is the town until all mafias has been killed.

[Y]

The most dangerous thing we can do is to kill mafia first day. That would allow them to pass all non-mafias to the afterlife, leaving no power roles for us.

I see where Kilroy's plan is going, but I think it is not as simple as he's thinking it is.

[Y]

What will you do if some mafia claim town and the other fake claim power role?
what will you do if all mafias claim power roles, and you can't decide between two players claiming the same role? What will happen if you misslynch and have the mafia controlling the dead/afterlife flow?

[Y]

We also could just lynch a vanilla townie first, just to get a townie as the first person lynched kind of thing, you know? Just a thought.

How do you know that the first one you killed is a real townie?

I'll try thinking about a plan...

[Y]

I think the best plan is to have everybody claim exactly what they are, including neutrals, channelers, power roles and mafia. That would be the best play for the town.

Now a more serious suggestion:
As said already, mafia didn't have the chance to talk. We should use it to our advantage D1.
We can ask everybody to claim power role or not (Channeler=Vanilla). Based on the outcome we decide from which set we want to lynch. If mafia claims vanilla, we lynch one of the power roles, if they claim power roles, we lynch a townie (If they claim mafia, we don't lynch them yet). This way we keep the better odds. No one knows which group will be selected from, so no one can break the system. Mafia don't have the time to talk with each other, so some one will probably mess up.

What do you think?

[Y]

i think it could possibly work, but only if everyone agreed to do it, which i doubt they will

The last time we tried something like that (A kind of a mass claim), who decided to do what was as helpful as who claimed what.

Of course we take no action until everybody claims, that would miss the point.

Spambot, I can't recall you posting until now either...

[Y]

I did a little check, and it appears that you did post before (This one is the third).

One of the posts has almost no relevant content. It talks about counter-claiming the power roles and criticizes the way people "Random Vote", which is the way they do in all games, so it's pointless.
The other one is the one where you said that the setup can be abused if we do the "Lynch the cop first thing" plan.

So, aren't you contradicting yourself a bit?

[Y]

@ Spambot: I just insinuated that you should check yourself before accusing other people and point them as scum. If I thought you're scummy enough, I would have FoSed you.

About the plan for mass claiming, there are two main things to consider:
1. No one is voting against it ATM, so we can assume everybody will claim. We can always decide not to proceed if people aren't cooperating.
2. The decision whether to claim or not gives us information as well. If a player refuses to claim while the town has decided we should go through with it, he's FoSing himself.

About the "Who will go first" question, I have the best way of doing it so people will get as little information of the order as it can get. I'll explain when necessary.

[Y]

I completely disagree and that kind of logic is just asking for trouble.. We should just stick to facts and try found out whos scum through guile, not faulty logic.

What facts do you have?

If everyone claims you will not know who to believe because they cannot prove there role atm since there has been no night choices/actions of any sort yet so we could fall in suspicious of everyone who claims a non power role.

That's the whole point. If we have too many townies, we choose from the power roles. If we have too many power roles, we choose from the townies.
Of course we have no night actions to guide us. That's because there will not be until we lynch some one, but if we lynch the wrong some one - The town's in serious trouble.

That kind of suggestion strikes me to become quite suspicious of you. Why would you suggest that on d1 (pg3) and in a closed setup game, when we dont really know the variety of roles that could/could not exist.

Call me stupid, but I recall reading the list of roles in one of the first posts.
Since the rules claim that the first lynch is crucial, I think that this kind of idea works only on D1. Afterwards is useless.

Vote:Y

I actually propose something that will help the town, and actually ask what the other players think of it before I put it to work. It's very odd that while other players did find the plan helpful and do try to make it work, or at least say why it won't, you're trying to dismiss it using the logic of a regular game, which functions all the way around than this one.

In a regular game I'd be voting you right now, and I believe that's what you hoped me and the other players to do, but with this setup I think that lynching a mafia D! is the worst play we can do. Sorry.

By the way, you may try and lynch me, at least we'll have a D1 town aligned lynch.

[Y]

I forgot,

FoS: D_O

.

@ Setael: Your plan works on the same principal as mine. I think it might work.

[Y]

@ Draux: Of course the mafia would like to sacrifice one of their own, but how will they do that? They have no NK until one of them is dead.
About the "No Lynch", I think it does exist in this game. I can recall reading we can vote it. It's actually a possibility in a deadline.

I think both my plan and Setael's will work, but mine is faster because it needs only each player to claim only once.
If we decide to go through with it, I suggest that some one throws a dice to decide who goes first, than the one who claimed throws a new dice to decide who's next. The dices can't be faked (We checked it alredy in another game).
Each player claims one of the following:
Cop, Doc, Town, Neutral, Mafia, Mafia Channeler. I know some of those won't appear in the real claims.
The town channeler should claim "Town".

[Y]

Mod: Can you please prod the players who hadn't posted yet?

[Y]

Now that i actually take that into account i think Setael plan is quite right. Y's plan would lead to a lot of lies being told. A mafia could just pose as a innocent non power role townie and get away with it.

Could you point out one thing a mafia can't do following Setael's plan, but can do following mine? Please explain how.
My plan is essentially the same, but without having to go through all the players several times. I actually believe that my plan creates a bit more confusion, so the mafia is more likely to slip up.

Starting with your first post and all the others ever since you've been trying to make me look scummy. Why?

[Y]

You can never assume no one will lie.

If go by role or by player, every player will claim the same, we just save the need of going trough the whole town every time.

I think we should wait until the replacements post. It's always better to have another perspective.

[Y]

I think

we should wait

until the replacements post. It's always better to have another perspective.

[Y]

Technically, the dice have been rolled.

Technically you did it before we all agreed, so it doesn't count. The player chosen by the dice had a lot of time to prepare by now.

[Y]

I am going to

Unvote

(did i have a vote? i don't rememeber)

and

Vote No lynch

because then the mafia would have to kill them selves right. but they can't. so if it ended up no lynch it could just become day two with out any deaths, and i guess it would sort of be useless..
gah. i don't know. seems like we are screwed wether a townie dies or mafia. and even more screwed if a chaneller person dies

If I'm not mistaken, there's no such option as NL.
Even if there were, a night on which mafia can talk is not our best of option.

I say we wait 24 hours. If no one objects, we start claiming in random order.
Kilroy, you can be the one to roll the dice if you wish.

[Y]

I agree, but I think organizing the mass claim and going in any kind of order (like by dice roll) only helps the scum. It slows down the process while we wait for the person whose number is up to claim, and allows scum to see exactly who has claimed what and then have plenty of time to decide what will be most beneficial to them. If everyone just claims at will, it will be more confusing for scum, and some of them may slip up.

It does slow down the process, but letting the mafia wait until everybody claimed and then claim by themselves isn't better, even if it's done faster.

I'm a

Vanilla Townie

.

I thought d_o is the other scum... Maybe he or DG is the mafia Channeler.

Is there any one who wishes to claim Neutral instead of his claim? You need to remain alive and we need to narrow our possibilities, so it would help both sides.

[Y]

I'll go ahead and present my scum list:

Spambot
kabenon
death_omen (possibly the scum spiritualist)
DeliciousGoldfish

I tend to agree with Setael's list...

[Y]

I know it's very subtle, but here's d_o's claim:

I am a:

simple townie

I noticed he didn't claim vanilla townie, which is a well known role nor just townie, which is the role description.
Makes me feel as if he made it up. It could be only me though...

Why would a mafia member be the first to claim wouldn't he/she be the last to claim after everyone else has already?

To later say it's something mafia wouldn't do?

I get the feeling that d_o just wanted to claim something and be cleared.

I think one of the counter-claims might be the spiritualist. He doesn't want to get lynched.
I also think that the one deciding whether to pass people to the afterlife or not can do it only when they die.

[Y]

I also think that the one deciding whether to pass people to the afterlife or not can do it only when they die.

Did someone say otherwise? I thought this was common knowledge - what motivated you to bring it up?

Me believing that this plan:

As long as we choose a Townie to be lynched first, we can then choose one of the claimed cops. If they are the real cop they will be able to investigate, and if they are not the real cop, there will be a night kill and

the transporter can then send them to the afterlife. Three game days later, they are out of the game.

Won't work.

If it's "common knowledge", why did the same post contained this:

If the scum start making night kills, the transporter will know to send them to the afterlife.

@ Draux: This is my style. I like saying everything that might be relevant and cover all options before deciding on a way of action. It killed me more than once, but that's my style.

About neutrals, they just need to stay alive. I think that if they'd claim neutrals, both the town and them will benefit, as they need to stay alive and we want a townie lynched. The mafia shouldn't care. It doesn't matter for them if people killed are neutrals or town, and neutrals are not confirmed as long as scum can claim it too (Although I see how it's not in their best interest).

I'm sure if DG is scum or just a really bad townie, but Setael is becoming scummier by the minute...

And a final announcement:

I wont be having Internet connection from tomorrow morning until Tuesday afternoon (Israel Time), so I might add some content before I go, but generally I'll be inactive for the next three days.

[Y]

@ Setael: You're not understanding me, so I'll explain in a more detailed way.
Say X is lynched. The Transporter now decides whether to pass him to the afterlife or not. That decision is now made and can't be changed. At night we have a NK, but the Transporter can't choose that now he wishes to move the last one killed to afterlife.
Since your plan is based on the ability to "eliminate" players based on their actions after they die, and I believe it's not possible, because once they act as dead people, they can't be transferred, I felt it was really important to mention it. This is why I believe your post has no logic and why I think you're the one misunderstanding me.

As to why I think Setael is becoming scummy, it's because of two things. The first one is that she began attacking almost every one who talks in the last few pages, especially any one confronting her. The second reason is part of the same theory on which I'm basing my counter-claimer suspect:
There were three players that all the time urged the role-claim and tried to speed it up instead of consulting the group and being sure that the right choice is being made.

Setael

: Post# 71, votes for the cop to claim. On post# 109 she starts the role claims by her own, after I suggested 24 hours to make sure the whole town agrees with the action we're about to take. That was 6 minutes after my post.

Kilroy

: Post# 74, rolls the die without waiting for the town to agree. He also claimed cop.

d_o

: Post# 76, follows Setael in voting for the cop claim, after accusing me on post# 60 for suggesting something similar. He unvotes me in the same post. He claims without waiting in post# 91.

About the doctors, I believe RandomActs is the real one. While he was the one to react when lynching the doc was mentioned (Post# 17), Spambot actually reacted when the mafia was mentioned (Post# 82).
I also get scummier feeling from Spambot, who was trying to accuse people for dumb reasons in his early posts.

[Y]

As you can see, I'm back...

@ Setael: No one said it's sure that the transporter can't choose to transport people at any time, but it seems more probable since it was possible, the game would be completely unbalanced towards the town.

I think "dead" is the "dead but can interact with the game" and "afterlife" is "completely dead".
Mafia can kill only as long as at least one of them is dead, but have not been transferred to the afterlife.

If all players will be called vanilla (Or maybe neutrals) when dead, and the full role will be revealed when passed to the afterlife.

@ Kilroy: d_o claimed vanilla.

What really scares me is that in this game scum can actually lurk while townies argue. Finally scum will be lynched because they're the least scummy. This is how scum won MAD Mafia - They lurked while the town just killed each other...

[Y]

I believe Neutrals get the "transporter" role as well as any other player. The problem is that once they dead, they can't win anyway and they have alighnment, so they don't care which side wins.

I've said it twice already, and I'll say it again: Neutrals want to stay alive and are irrelevant for both sides to win - Please claim and reduce our choices.
Killing the right people is the key to this game. Neutrals wish to stay alive and we don't need them dead.

Since I see no one claiming neutral, there are three possibilities:
1. There are no neutrals.
2. They are lurking and very inactive.
3. There's a huge flaw for them to claim that I'm missing. Could some one point to me, please?

@ Draux: NO. We want the transporter to be town. Dead scum can talk and interact, we don't want them to. Furthermore, if the mafia gets the job, they can neutralize all our power roles.

[Y]

Is there any flaw in my argument?

Yes. We also have to kill their spiritualist, therefore you have two days of guessing who's who.
As long as mafias can communicate and vote, they can mislead us.

I also think that the transporter won't be leaving to the afterlife as other players will after three phases. It doesn't say so anywhere, but it seems logical.

[Y]

@Y: I can't help but wonder if you honestly didn't think about that, or if you're subtly trying to get neutrals to claim so that they are out of the way once you can make NK's.

I really didn't think about it that way, therefore #3 on my list...

[Y]

@Setael: Well, I mentioned that the entire plan (which suddenly occured to me one morning) was on the basis of there only being three Scum and not more. I guess it's possible that there are four Scum, but I seriously doubt a Mini would have 1/3 of it's players as Scum. =/

We have a quote from the mod, so 4 it is. Most of the times there are three mafiosos and a SK, so it's not unusual. The spiritualist can't kill (As I'm understanding it), it's just another player we have to find and kill. It's actually easier than having a SK.

[Y]

I see nothing in your "plan" that wasn't said already and nothing worth waiting for every one to claim.

Were you trying to buy time?
I also don't like the "I had this great plan I was not telling you the details of at the time and now I forgot it" thingy...

[Y]

Vote Night_Light.

[Y]

So that's it... Setael it is.

I think it's a mistake, since I don't believe she's town, but we'll see.

[Y]

When you lynch a power role It's role will be revealed. Mafia will be called vanilla

That's really good for us...

We lynch one of the cops. Shows up cop - He stays. Shows up vanilla - He gets transferred to the afterlife.
Same for docs.

This way we'll either find our power roles or we get rid of scum. Win-win situation.

[Y]

On a second thought, we might wait with the docs.
We don't really need him at the moment, but we need as many townies alive as we can.

[Y]

This setup works kind of backwards...

Although the same thought RandomActs posted about Setael not being cleared passed through my mind too, Setael do have a point there. There's no reason for the mafia not to kill if they got the key role as the transporter.

As I said earlier, I think kilroy is the scum. I don't like the way he threw the dice nor the way he got away with his "plan" he just happened to forget right when it was time to reveal it (And it wasn't any different than any other plan we had).

[Y]

I'd like another clarification:

Mod: If the transporter sends some one to the afterlife right away when they die, will it still take three game phases, or that person will never make it to purgatory?

I think that Draux has a point there. We actually want the cop and all scum dead, so it doesn't really matter in which order they are killed (Although killing the real cop first will give us more nights to find scum and more townies alive).

[Y]

Interesting... mafia NKs only send people to purgatory. So yeah, you guys are right. It doesn't really matter if we kill mafia or the real cop first because if mafia NKs the cop or doc, all that does is send them to purgatory, where they can then start using their power role.

What I was saying exactly. Thank you.

Now I'm confused. Can someone explain to me what he means by that?

He means that although we might want power roles dead, we don't want too many townies dead, because then mafia wins.
This is why we prefer killing the real cop first and not the mafia, although it doesn't really matter.
Our best chance is that once we kill mafia, we kill all of them as soon as possible, but we need the cop for that.

I'll

vote Kabenon

. I think he's the real cop. After we kill the cop, I suggest no more town killing (Unless we're desperate and need the doc).

Mod: Can both town and neutral win, or mafia and neutrals, or a neutrals win means everybody else loses?

The mafia or town would win as secondary winner but the neutral would be the primary winner

[Y]

I don't care how scummy I look. You'll be able to check my alignment soon enough (Although I'd prefer the cop not wasting a night on me).

We're at L-1 and about half of the players haven't said anything. That bothers me.

Apparently we and the mafia have a common interest in killing neutrals, so let the hunt begin...

[Y]

I think the last scum is most likely Y. It bothers me that he's voting for Kabenon, but I'm not going to change my mind based on that. Maybe I'm wrong about either one or maybe Y is just trying to look townie so he can stay alive longer. I'm really not sure.

I can say the exact same thing about you...

[Y]

I say we should definitely not talk about who we're going to investigate!!! That gives the mafia a chance to nk whoever we've investigated... NOT GOOD.

So the town shouldn't know who they should vote for... Interesting.

Mafia knows who's scum and who's not, so they don't really care. Of course they'd prefer killing confirmed town because of the advantage it gives to the town, but not sharing the info at all will prevent the same advantage from the town, so it's useless.

[Y]

I hope it's worth it to you guys. I don't expect to survive the night.

Why? Scum can't kill unless there's a mafioso dead...

If you think scum would kill the cop, then you're definitely not paying attention...
If you are the real cop, you should be much more attentive to what's going on. My vote stays.

[Y]

Okay then. Good luck, Town. It's almost fun, watching you all condemn yourselves to this fate.

This sentence condemned you as scum as far as I'm concerned.

If you were the real cop, you'd had a logical statement that shows us we're making a mistake. People usually use emotions instead of logic when they're trying to cover up a lie.

[Y]

Unfortunately for you, I'm not trying to cover anything up. Nor am I "taking my ball and going home". I'm just gonna sit back and watch you lynch the wrong cop, and, if I survive the night, be here in the morning to gloat and/or make fun of you all*.

*All, that is, that are voting for Kabenon.

So, the good play is to lynch you to make you dead, because if we don't the mafia kills you and you're dead.

Both ways you die. Am I the only one to see the irony here?

You're playing emotional again, but this time you're trying to add some logic. Too bad you're logic is completely illogical.

[Y]

I believe that we should lynch someone who hasn't been very contributive. That way it is more safe.

You haven't been very contributive. Want us to lynch you?

[Y]

The mass claim didn't fail. It gave us exactly what we were expecting: It reduced dramatically the the amount of people need to investigate to find scum and increased our chances of finding our power roles and used them.
It also helped us lynching town as the transporter.

Thinking that "getting results" would be to know the exact role of all the players is being delusional.

You want to know why you're scummy? We can dig it up.

[Y]

We can kill two scum and we have a good idea about who the other is. If we do manage to kill all the mafias in a row, we can try and kill neutrals while looking for the scum spiritualist. I believe our spiritualist will have no problem claiming once killing him wins the game for us.

[Y]

I think I need to read through, though I find them laborious and time wasting...

Well, you could have done that three pages ago...

Thoughts?

Here's mine:
You stop the conversation about how to proceed (And that RandomActs made a scummy post) in order to go back to the topic of who we think is the cop, although everybody that's active already answered that question.
If you think it's kabenon, why didn't you vote for him? What makes you think it's him?

You're stopping the town from making progress. You're taking us back to a topic with very little to add to, and then you're adding nothing.

@ RandomActs: I really agree with your plan. I think that might be because all the active players agreed on it pages ago.
Spambot is starting to appear more and more like the real doc, and not only because of this post.

[Y]

Just trying to get things moving.

By adding nothing?

[Y]

No death_omen.

I am the real cop.

I got my investigation and everything done. Setael is scum, and must have just waited on her kill for someone else to be lynched so she would have someone to pin as scum. Cuz I investigated you, and you turned up townie. So Setael was scum. She just waited. Smart move.

Mod: Can we get a clarification about what happens when we Lynch a power role?

When you lynch a power role It's role will be revealed. Mafia will be called vanilla

Kabenon, Townie has been lynched Day 2

One of you is lying. Max is the mod. Do your own math.

kabenon why would you investigate death_omen? why not one of the doctor claimers? sorry if im slow and death omen is a doctor claimer

Because we know one of them is scum, and we need to kill the doc in order for him to be able to protect. Eventually they both die, so we shouldn't be wasting investigations.
Although this "investigation" is useless anyway...

Could he be covering for a scum buddy? Possible.

[Y]

I have a new theory. I won't be sharing it yet because I want to see other people's comments, but I'll tell you all about it soon.

Want to know what it is? Start talking (And I know this post is "scummy", I don't need people to point that out).

[Y]

Mod: Do we know when Setael starts to transport some one to the afterlife?

[Y]

Mod: Do we know when Setael starts to transport some one to the afterlife?

No

[Y]

There's a major flaw in my theory that I didn't take into consideration because of something some one said after my post. My conclusions are very likely to be wrong.
I'm keeping the details to myself for now, since tomorrow (Game-wise) I'll know for sure.

I assumed, like Spambot, that mafia can kill only as long as there mafiosos in the purgatory. I'm also assuming that as long as at least one spiritualist is alive, we're in contact with the dead (Or else we wouldn't need to kill our spiritualist to win).

If that is true, we can manage as long as their spiritualist is alive, so killing ours will not be that bad. But, and this is a big one, the more townies we have out in the open, the chances of mafia hitting neutrals gets lower, so the spiritualist needs not to claim.

I think we should focus on killing scum as fast as possible. kabenon's posts might help us, but it seems like he keeps pointing at every one, making a lot of WIFOM. We should check his actions before he admitted he's scum.

[Y]

mmm...not very convincing, Kilroy.

vote: Draux

Not very talkative. Seemingly innocent. Safe bet.

We actually know that there is a 99% of Kilroy being the real cop.
You do know where trying to make as little blind choices as we can, right?

[Y]

You mean this one?

Yes, and all your posts before it. Maybe a few after this one.

We should decide what will be our way of action from now on: Do we kill the cop, or do we kill scum. I think we should wait for Max's answer (Whether they can kill if there are no mafiosos in purgatory).

[Y]

You're not even trying to look at this from a townie perspective. I've been here posting and trying all game, and RandomActs has done crap.

She is, and so do I. We can say the exact same thing about the cops. Your point is not convincing.

Are we agreed that we want to either lynch the doc or scum today?

No. Therefore these:

Then take your pick, either way it's win-win from your perspective. Either I'm scum and you got me, or I'm the doc and the spiritualist can claim tomorrow.

Is not exactly true.

[Y]

To win, we need to kill all mafias and cut all the connections to the afterlife (Kill both spiritualists).
Once our spiritualist dies, I believe dead people can keep talking, since we do have another spiritualist (The scum one).

But I do think that we should leave as many townies alive as we can.

I'd suggest people ignore whatever kabenon is saying. He's just trying to confuse us.

I also urge people to stop voting until we decide how we should proceed. We don't want to have a random lynch.

The best lynch for today, as I see it, is to kill scum.
I trust Setael enough to assume she started the transportation of kabenon, so he has just this night to kill. A total of two.
The next scum lynched will have two nights as well, but if we kill him today, they share a night for a total of three nights for both to kill.

[Y]

Mod: Can scum only make NKs if one of them has been lynched, but has not yet moved on to the afterlife? Or now that one has been lynched, are they able to make NKs every night from now on regardless?

[Y]

Are you willing to take the chance that what I say is true, Mr. Y?

I didn't say we should believe you, but that your behaviour after understanding you won't convince us you're not scum is so chaotic, that getting any conclusion based on it would be unreliable.

I'd like to make progress, but I'm waiting for the mod's answer about our question, which is an important factor in the town's decision.

[Y]

Do we really double-our night kills once two scum are dead? That is pretty crucial to know.

That is really improbable. Why do you keep listening to kabenon?

[Y]

The problem is that when listening to some one like you, it razes questions that lead to bad decisions.
I've almost lost a game because of many people believing an SK's weird statement (And after I finally got him lynched, the town won).

If there were two kills when two mafias are dead, it would have been said so in the rules or in your role quote posted by the mod. I don't believe the mod told you that when you died just for you to know.
You're trying to scare and confuse us. That's a good strategy, but I won't fall for it.

Please, stop mumbling.

[Y]

I can't force any one to do anything. I'm not the mod. I can only say my opinion and hope for the town to listen.

Right now I think you're trying to mess with the town, and when I try to prevent the town from doing mistakes, you try to make me look bad.
I know what you're doing and I hope the town will realise it as well.

[Y]

I am not voting at all because I'm still waiting for an answer to this question:

Mod: Can scum only make NKs if one of them has been lynched, but has not yet moved on to the afterlife? Or now that one has been lynched, are they able to make NKs every night from now on regardless?

Which is very important for me to decide what is the better play for today in my opinion.

[Y]

I don't think a townie would claim cop.

Vote kilroy.

I believe that one dropped the hammer.

[Y]

I'd suggest we stop killing townies for a while...

[Y]

@ Setael: I think you should wait for the cop's investigation before starting the transport for the night kill tomorrow morning.

[Y]

I thought I'll be the one dead...

Kilroy, do we have a winner?

[Y]

Who did you investigate? It was pretty strange that cop didnt get nked by mafia or did he get transfered to afterlife before he could choose?

Are you even reading the game?

[Y]

What?

"I had a plan, you didn't like it. I don't wanna play with you anymore".
Scum.

I've been looked at as scum too (And probably still). That's the game.

[Y]

It seems like we have no real choice other than just try and kill scum.

[Y]

We don't have many townies left. We can't afford lynching townies on purpose. Let's assume that RandomActs is the real doc. Will he be better than Kilroy? I don't think so. He's better for us as a townie that counts against the mafia than as an unactive doc.

I think the best way to win is to just lynch all the scum we can.

[Y]

Ok so Y, answer me this: What happens if we start a wagon on death_omen, who several people seem to believe is scum (myself included). Then when he's -1 we find out we were wrong and he claims Town spiritualist. If we have lynched the doc, we're ok because he can protect the Town spiritualist, but if we have not lynched the doc then the Town spiritualist is vulnerable to a NK. I don't disagree that we should start lynching only scum soon. i just think it would be wise to have the doc able to use his power first. If you disagree, please explain why.

My point is that if RandomActs turns up as the cop, I believe your scenario will go something like this:
We find the spiritualist. We kill scum. Spiritualist dies next day. RandomActs: "Is this game still going? Sorry".

I also believe that if scum can talk as long as our spiritualist is alive, town can talk too as long as the scum one lives.

How can you possibly think that "there is no killing roles that are dead"? Have you really missed the fact that scum are still in the game for 3 game days after they are transported? In case you still don't understand that, it means kabenon will still be able to make a NK tonight.

I think there will be no night kills until we kill another mafioso. Two reasons:
1. Dead means in purgatory, and Max said they can kill only while there's a

dead

mafia.
2. The killings were maid by a ghost. Kabenon disappeared in the killing scene, so he can make no more kills.

[Y]

8 alive, 3 ghosts, 11 voters, 6 to lynch

Assuming no mafia was NKed, we have 3 mafias and at least one neutral. That leaves us with 4 townies. We're at LYLO people. We MUST lynch scum.

[Y]

We'll have to kill them eventually, and I'd like to have as many townies as we can alive.

Can you tell me where does it say that dead townies count?

[Y]

When Dead carry on playing remember DEAD PEOPLE HAVE POWERS
You can vote and talk when dead only one difference POWERS CAN BE USED WHEN DEAD
First Person To Die May choose whether to passage people of their choice to the afterlife (so do you lynch the cop first?)
To be transferred to the afterlife you must have been dead at least 36 game hours
3 game stages so Day, Night, Day or Night, Day, Night

It seems like there is a difference between being dead (Purgatory) and in the afterlife.

I am so sorry for my absense. Real life issues are clearing up and I anticipate being much more involved.

I think death omen just wants out of the game.

I don't think we're at LOL either

, but

Y has a point that we need to start lynching scum eventually

.

As long as I'm lynched before the real spiritualist is revealed we'll be ok

.

So it comes down to risk assessment.

Having me in the afterlife will allow me to protect the spiritualist

(once he/she is revealed) until all the scum are gone. But

lynching me now means the scum will be around for yet another day - and yet another NK in all likelihood

.

If we have a good idea who the remaining scum are, then I believe the play is to lynch them and let seteal get them out of the game as soon as possible. If we have no clue who the scum are, then I should be today's lynch so I can be in place to protect the spiritualist when necessary.

(And yes, we need to ignore kabenon. He won't be helpful. He's scum, after all.)

If you pay attention to the underlined parts, you can see that he's not reading and not understanding the game. Even if he's the cop, he'll be useless to us. Once he does makes a statement (Bold), he doesn't explain.

8 alive, 3 ghosts, 11 voters, 6 to lynch

well i dont think majority would be at 6 if those who are dead didnt count

They count for votes, but not as people alive.

[Y]

I dropped a sentence there about RandomActs' post:
He keeps repeating what other people said, and when he's not, he just makes up stuff based on what he thinks is the game state.

[Y]

@ RandomActs: I know you're the doc. I made a mistake while typing (I was a bit distracted. I forgot a sentence, too). I know exactly what is the game state. You can understand by reading my posts I meant doc and wrote "cop".

[Y]

I'm still against any more townies lynch. This is the catch of the game. It looks pretty easy until the town goes mad killing itself carelessly.

[Y]

Y and kilroy: What happens if whoever we wagon is randomly the Town Spiritualist and is forced to claim? What then?

I think we should try and kill the scum-doc. During the night Kilroy investigates some one and we hope he finds scum.

[Y]

I wish we don't get to a state where we make the spiritualist claim. We kill who we think is scum and then try to kill another one and then the last one. Using the cop as much as we can. We do have a good suspect list.
I also think that as long as the scum spiritualist is alive, it doesn't matter if our spiritualist is dead.

Why are you so motivated to let scum NK tonight?

I'm not, I just don't like the alternative - Killing any more townies on purpose. We'll have to kill scum eventually, and I think we should have as many live townies once the NKs begin. You may go and kill more townies if you like, but don't blame me if the town loses as soon as the lynch scene ends.

[Y]

Here's a thought:
Only dead scum can kill.
Dead people can use their powers only while in purgatory.
If we kill the spiritualists, all killed players go directly to the afterlife.

If we kill the spiritualists, would scum be able to kill?

[Y]

I'm still against killing townies. You won't get my vote for the doc.

[Y]

I didn't say I won't vote for a claimed doc, I said that it won't be the one I think is town.

I'm all for for killing scum, and the claimed docs do give us the best chance at doing so.

[Y]

Vote RandomActs.

I think hes the scum.

[Y]

@Y: You haven't answered my question: Why do you want there to be a NK tonight and tomorrow night?

Yes, I did:

I'm not, I just don't like the alternative - Killing any more townies on purpose. We'll have to kill scum eventually, and I think we should have as many live townies once the NKs begin. You may go and kill more townies if you like, but don't blame me if the town loses as soon as the lynch scene ends.

If we wait to lynch the scum we KNOW about we can avoid NK's while we look for the other ones (in case we mislynch). I don't understand why you're not agreeing to that logic.

Because

too much dead townies = Losing

. WE MUST STOP KILLING TOWNIES!!!

Claus, there's something you're missing: The scum have their own spiritualist. Killing ours will do nothing, since they rely on their own.

[Y]

I'll go with Setael here...

Unvote, Vote D_O.

[Y]

At the beginning D_O tried to push the town in the opposite direction than the one we thought is the best, trying to convince the town that bad moves are good.

Then he disappeared.

[Y]

Goood morning every one!

So, are we killing scumdoc?

[Y]

Is ckillor scum, or just unaware to the game?

[Y]

Stop that, Setael. One could very well blame the down for relying too much on night powers and being too greedy with the apparent advantage of lynching townies in this game. Let's leave the postgame discussions to the postgame. :-/

We use whatever advantage we have. The problem is that our biggest advantage turns out to be unhelpful.

I feel the same way as Setael.
N1 - No investigation.
N2 - Investigation of some one of which alignment was already known.
If he doesn't find scum tonight, we're back to guessing tomorrow.

Vote RandomActs

, just in case.

[Y]

I wondered when will it happen to me...

Please kilroy, tell me you didn't investigate me.

We have a neutral, a mafia, a doc and the spiritualist. Who is the scum?

[Y]

We knew RA was scum because it was obvious. You can check the posts prior to the D_O lynch.

I'll have to read a bit before I vote.

[Y]

This is our game state the way I see it:

ckillor (Alive) - Spiritualist?
Draux (Alive) - Spiritualist?

DeliciousGoldfish (Alive) - Neutral.

Spambot/Claus (Alive) - Doc.
Y (Dead) - Town.
skitzer (Dead) - Town.
Kilroy8675309 (Dead) - Cop.
Night_Light (Dead) - Town.
Seteal (Dead) - Town.

RandomActs (Dead) - Scum.

death_omen (Afterlife) - Town.

kabenon007 (Afterlife) - Scum.

That said, this post seems weird:

The Mafia PM from page 1.

Mafia PM wrote:
You are mafia with X & Y. You can only kill when one of you is dead. During night you may talk among yourselves.
You win when all townies are dead or that is unstopable

Z is also a spiritual channeler if he is alive all dead people can talk and vote during day.

Setael wrote:

So here's an idea. There are only 3 scum + 1 scummy spiritualist.

thats only 3 mafia total. not 3+ 1 scum channeler

Every one else understood it as four mafiosos. Care to explain?

Vote ckillor.

[Y]

and wasn't it ckillor that counter-claimed cop forever ago? or am i completely mistaken...

You're completely mistaken.

It seems like you're completely ignoring me insinuating you're the Neutral...

[Y]

Setael, you saw how 'helpful' Kabenon was when after we Lynched him. Do you seriously think RandomActs would be anymore helpful?

People can mess up...

[Y]

I'll

unvote

for now. I'll try taking a better re-read.

[Y]

Might be a good option, since I could see either Draux or ckillor as scum and really don't know which it is. I'm leaning toward Draux. I was thinking it wouldn't make sense for DrauxScum to counterclaim, but if he didn't we'd have had a confirmed townie and would've only had to choose between two players rather than three so it actually makes sense for DrauxScum to counterclaim.

If we kill the doc, we need him to guess between three people. To lynch scum we have to decide between two. Better chances this way.

If Draux is scum, he had to choose whether to claim, and have a one-on-one against ckillor, or not to counter-claim and going against DG. Which one would you choose? (Hint: I'd choose to let the town decide between me and Delicious "Scummy" Goldfish)

If he's town, he's the spiritualist, and besides claiming his actual role, he'd like us to suspect ckillor, which is scum.

He could, of course, do it to throw us off, because he knew we'd think this way, but that's just an improbable WYFOM.

[Y]

"I'm the spiritualist and he's claiming it too, therefore he's scum" seems like a good case for me.
You have a good reason of your own to call him scum, why would you need some one else to build a better case on him for you to vote?

[Y]

Firstly, I believe that me and Night_Light were established as the most Townie-looking players by a few people before RandomActs mentioned this, although I'm not sure why he added Y into it. Secondly, I made a point on Day 1 after both counter-claims that it'd be better to actually Lynch Scum instead of Town. If we were to Lynch Scum and then Lynch all four claimants, the Scum would not be able to kill us off faster than we can Lynch them. Simply put, if we had Lynched Scum on Day 1 we would've won already. I was slightly against a Townie Lynch on Day 1, but went along with it anyway since the Town didn't seem to get me (partly because they suspected a fourth Scum, which was possible but highly unlikely). I'm not sure if the Scum realised this or not, but it would've been very bad for them if the third Scum had been Lynched on Day 1.

A D1 scum kill and then power-role lynch would be the worst thing we could do. NK every night and all townies and power roles transferred to the afterlife. Bad for the town.

When we started voting for you, why didn't you tell us that you're the spiritualist so we won't lynch you? I didn't see any objection for you to get lynched, although the spiritualist should have.

[Y]

I won't be available in the next 24 hours or so, so I won't be here when deadline strikes.

I'll

vote Draux

, just in case.

[Y]

So that's it for scum?

Go town.

[Y]

I really liked the game, but, I too, think it was easier for the town to win. We won although we made some mistakes.

[Y]

As a first attempt it was fun. With a bit more experience, it can become much better.

As a whole, it's nice to see that there are people with good original ideas.