503: Dead People Have Powers - Happiness Or Destruction?

[Setael]

I also am at work all day... but I'm really good at multitasking...

I'll post once I've read the thread.

[Setael]

If I'm understanding the setup right, the scum's #1 goal at this point is to ensure that the first person lynched is scum, and our #1 goal is to make sure that doesn't happen.

So here's an idea. There are only 3 scum + 1 scummy spiritualist. So we have the cop claim. Once the cop has claimed we need to have every player check in to make sure the real cop isn't just not paying attention. Every single person will need to say "I am not the cop" or something so we ensure that the person claiming cop really is the cop. If there is a counter claim then we know one of those claiming cop is Town and one is mafia. That gets one of the mafia out of the way.

If there is no counterclaim, we lynch the cop and once he is dead he can begin investigating. If there is a counterclaim, we do the same thing with the doc. The doc claims, everyone checks in saying "I am not the doc". If there is a counterclaim, we know one of them is the doc and one is mafia and we have another mafia out of the way.

So then we either have a confirmed innocent (either cop or doc if one isn't counterclaimed) or if they're both been counterclaimed we've pinpointed 2 of our mafia. We'd then only have two mafia unaccounted for and the odds are much lower that we'll accidentally pick a mafia member to be the one to decide who gets sent to the afterlife.

At that point, we just need to decide if we want everyone to claim or just pick a person we all feel is Town. At least our odds would be a lot better. I'm definitely willing to claim if that's what is decided. I think the best move right now though would be to have the cop claim and see what happens.

It's going to be interesting lynching the people we feel are the most Town-like. The last thing we want to do is lynch a mafia, because then they get to start making NK's.

[Setael]

@death_omen: You do realize the last thing any of us want to do right now is vote for someone we think is mafia, right?

[Setael]

If there is a counterclaim, we won't choose between them. We would lynch neither of them. But for every counterclaim, we know that one of them is mafia, which narrows down the people to choose from, and decreases the chance that we accidentally lynch mafia first.

Also, the number of scum was given to us by the mod. The role pm says something along the lines of "You are scum with X and Y. Z is your scummy spiritualist" which means 3 mafia and a scum spiritualist.

I don't know what the process would be to get this going, but I think the smartest thing to do would be to have the cop claim and then have everyone else post saying "I am not the cop" so we know every Townie has seen it. Do we need a vote on it?

vote: The cop needs to claim.

And... I'll be the first to say that I am not the cop.

[Setael]

The Mafia PM from page 1.

Mafia PM wrote:
You are mafia with X & Y. You can only kill when one of you is dead. During night you may talk among yourselves.
You win when all townies are dead or that is unstopable

Z is also a spiritual channeler if he is alive all dead people can talk and vote during day.

[Setael]

I was interpreting it as 4... "You" (whoever receives the PM), X, Y and Z. I could be wrong.

[Setael]

Welcome. I would use an exclamation point, but you stole them all.

[Setael]

* If I decide a deadline is necessary, a majority must still be reached. However, if no majority decision has been made by the deadline, I will lower the vote need by 1 for 24 hours. If this hasn't been reached I will continue doing so until we reach a lynch LYNCHES MUST TAKE PLACE

Looks like there is no voting no lynch.

I think by the time all the replacements check in, we'll have other players needing to be replaced because the thread has come to a virtual halt while we wait for everyone to be present and accounted for. Plus, there's a chance all the replacements will be just like Goldfish - replace in and not say anything because they're bewildered.

I think both my plan and Setael's will work, but mine is faster because it needs only each player to claim only once.

I agree, but I think organizing the mass claim and going in any kind of order (like by dice roll) only helps the scum. It slows down the process while we wait for the person whose number is up to claim, and allows scum to see exactly who has claimed what and then have plenty of time to decide what will be most beneficial to them. If everyone just claims at will, it will be more confusing for scum, and some of them may slip up.

I see no need to wait 24 hours, and I don't think we should wait for dice rolls, so...

**INITIATE MASS ROLE CLAIM**

As a reminder, the Townie spiritualist needs to claim Vanilla. Everyone else, just claim your roles whether they be a Power role or vanilla Townie.

I will go first, and I strongly suggest the rest of you follow suit so we can get this game going.

Claim: Vanilla Townie (normal towns person)

P.S. @death_omen

If we bus of a townie tonight we will just be one member down and it won't really help us because we need to still be able to win and dismiss the mafia members at the right times.

Yes it will really help us, because the Town will have control of who is kicked out of the game. If the first person to die is scum, the Town is in a world of hurt. Besides, you seem to be looking at this all wrong. Whoever is lynched is still in the game and talks during the day until the spiritualists are killed.

[Setael]

DeliciousGoldfish, please read the thread.

As we have discussed at length, we know mafia will claim Townie or a power role, but once we have everyone's claim we will have a better shot at selecting the right person for the first night's lynch.

[Setael]

So, you wanted to think about the setup before posting, but you didn't want to read the thread?

Also, you say that you think claiming might be a bad idea, but then you go ahead and do it anyway.

I think there's a good chance that you're scum.

QFT

After everyone claims we should each provide a scumlist, and then we can pick someone who shows up the least. Goldfish will most certainly be on mine.

[Setael]

Well, I really don't like how the mass role claim was set off so abruptly, but I guess there's no stopping it now.

I am curious what you think should've been done differently. Do you think it should've been more structured? Did you like the idea of 24 hours notice? Please explain why you disagree with the abruptness - I personally only see it hindering the scums.

[Setael]

I really liked the idea of randomness to see who went next, because then scum would be put on the spot in possibly a moment's notice, and if it took em awhile to respond, well it's obvious why.

Oh? It's impossible for a Townie to not look at the thread for a few days? As you know, that actually happens a LOT and mafia could take as long as they wanted to respond and we could never be sure they weren't just Town who hadn't been online in awhile. Besides that, there has been plenty of time for all the mafia to decide exactly what they were going to claim. Random dice roll was hardly going to catch any of them off guard.

Also, if we'd have gone by random dice roll, it might have taken a very long time. We've already pinpointed two of the mafia, both of which are likely NOT the mafia spiritualist, who probably wouldn't want to put themselves in such a precarious position. As long as we choose a Townie to be lynched first, we can then choose one of the claimed cops. If they are the real cop they will be able to investigate, and if they are not the real cop, there will be a night kill and the transporter can then send them to the afterlife. Three game days later, they are out of the game.

Something I don't think has been clarified or if so I missed it...

Question for the mod:

Once we lynch one of the mafia and they are then able to NK, are they able to kill the transporter? If so, is the transporter replaced or does that cut off the ability to send people to the afterlife?

This may affect whether we want to lynch one of the cops to test their claim.

[Setael]

Good point.

[Setael]

Well it helps when you post something like that, which made you look like scum with kabenon. Why did you not just list both kabenon and kilroy as claiming cop? Your post clearly seems geared to make us think Kilroy is the one who is lying. I already had a strong suspicion Spambot was the one lying about the doc claim, and your post listing him the way you did only reinforced the idea.

I'll go ahead and present my scum list:

Spambot
kabenon
death_omen (possibly the scum spiritualist)
DeliciousGoldfish

[Setael]

If you are mafia, the last thing we want to do is lynch you. Of course we don't know for sure that you are the scum spiritualist, I just think the spiritualist would not have taken the risk of claiming a power role, so it is more likely to be one of my other suspects and I can see you being it more than Goldfish.

Why would a mafia member be the first to claim wouldn't he/she be the last to claim after everyone else has already?

I actually think it's a lot more likely that mafia would try to claim first to make the real cop or doc look like they are counterclaiming. Mafia had plenty of time to reason this out and decide to counterclaim the power roles and there is no reason for them to have waited. Possibly they were just waiting for the role claim to begin so they could claim the power roles first.

I also noticed that death_omen avoided providing a scum list. Please do so now.

[Setael]

The wording he used could also mean death_omen is neutral or another role that wasn't vanilla but opted to claim vanilla. Though it could be a scumtell on omen's part, this could be Y fishing for the Town spiritualist.

I think one of the counter-claims might be the spiritualist. He doesn't want to get lynched.

I can see this going either way. I was thinking we would definitely lynch the least scummy seeming cop 2nd and under the assumption that scum would've seen this coming, I didn't think the spiritualist would counterclaim. But, if the scum assume we'd NEVER lynch the power roles and their counter claimants, then maybe the spiritualist could be one of those who counterclaimed.

On the one hand, if we don't lynch any of those 4, we are less likely to allow mafia to start making NK's. On the other hand, until we start lynching them, the cop and doc are powerless. Also, we are only going to be able to confirm which cop is telling the truth by lynching one (not as the first lynch, but after) and seeing what happens. If the scum start making night kills, the transporter will know to send them to the afterlife. If the scum decide to wait and not NK so as to not reveal the identity of the one lynched (assuming they're allowed to NOT NK if they so choose), we still win because it prevents a NK.

I also think that the one deciding whether to pass people to the afterlife or not can do it only when they die.

Did someone say otherwise? I thought this was common knowledge - what motivated you to bring it up?

[Setael]

So, we now need to pick a vanilla townie to lynch. Perhaps we should each make a suspects list, and then lynch whomever appears on none/least of them? Mine so far would have DG, DO, and Setael.

I'm not surprised you suspect me, considering you obviously haven't read the thread.

[Setael]

After everyone claims we should each provide a scumlist, and then we can pick someone who shows up the least.

I'll go ahead and present my scum list:

Spambot
kabenon
death_omen (possibly the scum spiritualist)
DeliciousGoldfish

Then we have this little jewel later, in Post 148:

Perhaps we should each make a suspects list, and then lynch whomever appears on none/least of them?

You tell me how I'm supposed to think you've read the thread after that.

[Setael]

Setael seems to like to convict people of not having read the thread. That's what mafia was. I did read the thread, doesn't mean I completely understand how this game is going to play out. Hell, if you DO completely understand how it's going to play out, that could be considered fishy.

I find it hard to believe that you really read the thread when you came in and made this statement:

Wow... Do we REALLLLLY think this is going to work? Mafiosos will really claim mafia?

It had been mentioned several times in the thread that mafia would obviously claim either vanilla or a power role. This statement made it painfully obvious that you haven't read the thread. And the only people who aren't motivated to read the thread are scum, because they already know everyone's alignment.

[Setael]

Setael is becoming scummier by the minute...

Why is that, exactly? Because I questioned you on something?

I'm kind of confused by your last post. I don't see what I said that makes you think that I didn't understand that "the one deciding whether to pass people to the afterlife or not can do it only when

they die

." By "die" you mean when they have been lynched and are therefore dead, right? And by "they" you mean the people we have lynched, right?

So here's the mod's clarification on it:

When dead people are transported to the afterlife they are out of the game
The first 1 to die would be the transporter and would decide WHO among the dead would be transported and they would then have 3 phases remaining

When they are sent to the afterlife they are out of the game and their alignment revealed the 2 ways to do that is
A) Cut all ties with the afterlife then roles are revealed on the first turn of death
B) Send people to the afterlife then roles are revealed when the passage to death is complete

When A player dies they will get transported to the other side if the transported wants them to be

power roles will be revealed when they are in the afterlife (mafia will be called vanilla) when they reach afterlife the full role and alignment will be revealed

So based on that, what makes you think this plan won't work?

As long as we choose a Townie to be lynched first, we can then choose one of the claimed cops. If they are the real cop they will be able to investigate, and if they are not the real cop, there will be a night kill and the transporter can then send them to the afterlife. Three game days later, they are out of the game.

If it's "common knowledge", why did the same post contained this:

If the scum start making night kills, the transporter will know to send them to the afterlife.

I had to puzzle this out a bit because I don't see how you're misunderstanding me. The only thing I can come up with is maybe you think when I said "the scum" I meant all the scum, including the ones still alive. I was referring to the scum that would have to have been lynched in order for the scum to begin making night kills.

So, to clarify:

As long as we choose a Townie to be lynched first, we can then choose

to lynch the least scummy

of the claimed cops. If they are the real cop they will be able to investigate

because they can begin using their power once they are dead

, and if they are not the real cop, there will be a night kill and the transporter can then send them

(the cop we have lynched that would at that point be obviously mafia)

to the afterlife. Three game days later, they are out of the game.

If the scum start making night kills, the transporter will know to send them

(the cop that we have lynched who is obviously mafia if a night kill is made)

to the afterlife.

@Y: Let me know if that doesn't clarify, because I'm not exactly sure I understand your misunderstanding. It kind of feels like you're just trying to throw suspicion around.

[Setael]

Also very... skewed. Why can't I make a statement about how a mass claim won't work? I'm currently in a game where we have had a mass roleclaim... unprovoked at that, and guess what, everyone is town-aligned!

Yes, I have read the thread. Again, Satael, I have read the thread. Does it mean I have to agree with some people's "plan" of action? Heck to the no.

This game has so many crazy variables that anyone that is 100% sure of how to proceed in the game well... Makes me wary.

Can you tell me why you failed to address the actual issue? The reason I think you hadn't read the thread (or maybe just skimmed it like scum would tend to do already knowing alignments) is because you said "Wow... Do we REALLLLLY think this is going to work? Mafiosos will really claim mafia?" when this had been clearly covered in the thread. No one was expecting them to claim mafia, and the fact that you didn't know that makes it quite obvious you either aren't reading the thread, or aren't paying that close of attention - both of which are scummy, and indicate that you have insider info and don't feel you need to look closely at the posts in order to figure out alignments.

I also think it's scummy that Spambot was on DG's case so strongly and then all of a sudden backed off when DG has done nothing to warrant it. Possibly Spambot wanted to bus DG a bit so that DG would look Town when/if Spambot comes up scum but then he didn't want to push too hard so decided to back off. I recognize that it's also possible that one of them is not scum, and considering that Y is looking scummier it makes me doubt my scum list since he agreed with it so whole-heartedly.

I think it's a good idea for everyone to post which of the power role claims they think is legit and why. I'm working on that now.

[Setael]

@Y: I see what you meant now. I was assuming the Transporter was free to decide to transport or not whenever they chose. Do we know for sure it has to be done as soon as they are lynched?

There were three players that all the time urged the role-claim and tried to speed it up instead of consulting the group and being sure that the right choice is being made.
Setael: Post# 71, votes for the cop to claim. On post# 109 she starts the role claims by her own, after I suggested 24 hours to make sure the whole town agrees with the action we're about to take. That was 6 minutes after my post.

I could also argue that certain people were trying to delay it and stall for so long that mafia had plenty of time to come up with a good strategy. Plus we were starting to need replacements because nothing was happening.

And please don't say I've been accusing "everyone" when it's a lie. I've questioned Y and accused those on my scum list and that's it.

[Setael]

@death_omen: Why have you not claimed yet?

@Mod: Can you please tell us if death_omen picked up his prod?

@kilroy: Can you now explain what you were planning in these posts? We might not hear from Coron and/or a replacement by the deadline. I guess maybe wait for death_omen to claim before you answer this...

I was going to post something, but explaining it defeats a plan I have. So, I propose this: Why don't we all claim being Vanilla Town, if we are Vanilla Town? I think this would be a good starting point, and, at the end of it all, I will explain to you all my idea.

Also: Neutrals and the Soul Talker-People-Guys should probably claim Vanilla Town. If we decide to do my plan.

Doing so will give the Mafia a choice: Claim vanilla, and reduce their chances of confusing the Town when the Doc/Cop come out, or not, and then they're out on the chopping block. Either way, it forces them into a lie, and that's always a good thing.

I'm not explaining my idea. It's rather suspicious to ask me about all the details of my plan, also, since I said explaining it defeats the purpose. It informs the Mafia which side I'm hoping they go towards.

[Setael]

I find it interesting that Spambot trusts me enough as Town to have me be the first one lynched. This would maybe make sense if no one was finding me at all suspicious, but that’s hardly the case. I’m probably on more scum lists than anyone else.

So… first scenario is Spambot

knows

I am Town because he is scum. He recognizes that at this point it’s highly unlikely that scum is going to be the first one lynched, so decides he may as well support a Townie becoming the Transporter in hopes that he’ll gain my trust and when he’s lynched I won’t decide to boot him to the afterlife. A bonus would be if he can get us to lynch him before the other power role claimers. If Spambot is scum, even if the Transporter does decide to send him to the afterlife, the scum would then be able to start making nightkills.

The second scenario is Spambot really is the doc and just thinks I'm Town, even though no one else really does… I would expect scum to just support Draux or Night Light since their names have already been suggested rather than putting forward a name that a lot of people suspect as scum. It becomes all WIFOMy here because scum would maybe realize we'd expect that and then do the opposite.

So anyway. I'd like Spambot to say what I’ve done that makes him sure enough about my alignment to support me being the Transporter.

Seriously, this game is already over, we just have to lynch a townie today.

This is hardly true. Even if our transporter is a Townie, the scum will have a good shot at winning. As soon as we lynch one of them they’ll start making night kills and if we don’t choose the right power role claimers first, scum will be able to kill off our power roles. Even if we are sure someone is scum and the Transporter sends them to the afterlife, they still have 3 game days to make NKs so it still won't be a walk in the park.

I would support either Draux or Night Light as the first lynch. I would, of course, prefer me being lynched first since I’m the only one I

know

is Town, but I did not think this likely since so many people seemed to be misconstruing my posts as scummy. I was quite taken aback by Spambot’s assumption that I am Town, but if he did that to get me to trust him it didn't really work. I still suspect him and think RandomActs is the real doc.

Whatever we decide, we need to start saying who our top choices are for the first lynch before the deadline hits, because if it gets down to where one or two votes decide who is the first lynch, we will be in danger of giving control of that choice to the scum.

[Setael]

I agree. If so, he probably won't be so thrilled to be the first one lynched. I know neutrals have to survive to end game, but if we lynch a neutral first what happens? Would they still become the transporter even though they cannot win the game at that point? Or would the next person lynched become the transporter?

I guess these are questions for the mod.

Max: What happens if the first person lynched is neutral?

[Setael]

@Draux: The reason I thought you were neutral is you were one of the top choices for the first lynch, and then you came out with this post saying you think we should lynch mafia first. It felt like you were trying to get us to change our minds about lynching you first, and the only role motivated to do that would be neutrals.

I guess I can see where you are coming from. I have been thinking from a perspective of keeping the spiritualists alive at all costs so that everyone lynched is still in the game and anyone we think might be scum is transported out of the game. Draux's post is coming from the perspective of lynching the scum and the spiritualists as soon as possible so they're dead and our tie to the afterlife is cut off.

I'm not sure which is better... with either perspective, if we come close to lynching a spiritualist and they claim, there is the issue of them getting counter claimed and we won't know which one claimed first and since I still think there's a chance there are four scum, the one claiming could either be the third scum or the scum spiritualist. With Draux's plan it wouldn't be as big of a catastrophe if we accidentally lynch scum first. Still wouldn't be good, though.

Maybe a compromise between the two would be ideal. After picking the towniest person to be the transporter, we try to lynch the power roles first so they can start using their power (and so they don't get NK'd if we lynch scum first) and then after that we just try to lynch scum. The downside is they will then be able to start making NKs but at least if we accidentally lynch the spiritualists and cut off ties, it's ok because hopefully we've taken out a few of the scum. Then it becomes a regular game and we just have to kill any remaining scum.

[Setael]

It is true that d_o claimed vanilla earlier in the game. I was hoping to get him to re-claim rather than point that out like Y did, on the odd chance that he would claim something else.

So since everyone has claimed that is going to... kilroy can we have your thoughts? We should get moving on a lynch. We need to agree on who is to be the first lynch by Sept. 29. In fact, we need to decide before then so that if the person we’ve chosen is neutral and claims such, we will have time to pick a new person. We can't risk the number of votes needed dropping down as that would give scum more control over who becomes the transporter.

[Setael]

You are neutral you don't know how you got here but you have one aim, To leave this town, because of quarantine you can't leave until end game stay alive until then

Some of the roles are neutral. It is unlikely that the channelers are neutral, but I guess it's possible. The neutrals' only goal is to not get lynched. They are not scum nor town and they don't need to be killed in order for mafia to win. Y is suggesting that the neutrals should claim "neutral" rather than "Vanilla" so we don't accidentally lynch them, and so that the pool we have to choose from for the first lynch is smaller.

I've been thinking about this and I disagree that the neutrals claiming helps the Town - I think it would be more beneficial to scum. It might raise our odds of lynching a townie first, but in the long run it would leave all townies much more vulnerable to NK's and increase scum's chance of winning. As it stands, scum would have to choose between everyone they know isn't scum for a NK and if they hit a neutral it does them no good. If all neutrals claim, the scums' NK would successfully hit a townie every time. I think the neutrals should NOT claim neutral.

@Y: I can't help but wonder if you honestly didn't think about that, or if you're subtly trying to get neutrals to claim so that they are out of the way once you can make NK's.

[Setael]

Tomorrow the deadline takes effect and the number of votes needed to lynch starts going down. The only people motivated at this point to stall until only a few votes are needed to determine who becomes the transporter is mafia.

I am going to vote myself to be the first lynch since I'm the only one I

know

is Town. If we get enough votes for either night light or draux, I would be willing to vote them as the first lynch.

vote: setael

[Setael]

I'm fine with it. It'll be a bummer if ties to the afterlife are cut eventually and I'm thence out of the game, but it's worth it to make sure a Townie is the transporter.

[Setael]

Can everyone please vote the next time they check the thread? Tomorrow the required to lynch will drop down again.

[Setael]

Sweet, now I get to start haunting all of you. By the way, did you really have to make it so painful? A nice lethal injection would've been much less brutal.

So... you effectively all have proof I'm Town since 11 are still alive, meaning mafia wasn't able to make a NK.

I would say our goal now should be to try and lynch the real cop. If we succeed, he can start investigating.

I have a question for the mod.

Do I have to decide whether to transport someone to the afterlife immediately after their lynch? Or can I decide at any time I want? (Like if we lynch someone can I wait to see if a NK is made before deciding to transport them?)

[Setael]

You may decide anytime and the passage will begin (if you want you can transport yourself).

This is fabulous news. Once we lynch the cop that the majority think is Town, I don't have to decide to transport them right away, so we'll wait to see if there's a NK or not to decide. If there's a NK, they get transported, if not either they're the real cop or they're choosing to not make a NK, both of which would be beneficial to the Town. The cop can then investigate one of the claimed docs and then we'll go from there... if the cop really is scum who is just choosing not to NK we'll find out soon enough and can then transport them. Three game days later they'll be out of the game.

[Setael]

Setael, we discover power roles immediately upon death (if I remember right), so there's no need to wait for Nightkills and such.

I don't think that's accurate.

When dead people are transported to the afterlife they are out of the game

This clarifies that those who are dead are basically in purgatory. They are not in the afterlife until they are transported from purgatory to the afterlife.

power roles will be revealed when they are in the afterlife (mafia will be called vanilla) when they reach afterlife the full role and alignment will be revealed

This makes it clear that power roles won't be revealed until they are in the afterlife. Therefore, once we lynch someone we won't be told their role until they are sent out of the game.

[Setael]

Yes, but if we lynch a power role claimed mafia, they will show up as vanilla, not the power role that he claimed. So either way you would know.

My understanding is that both mafia and power roles will show up as vanilla once they are lynched. It will not be until they are transported to the afterlife (and are then effectively out of the game) that their role and alignment will be revealed. I could be wrong, but since the mod said that power roles wouldn't be revealed until they reach the afterlife, I think they will also show up as vanilla once they are lynched.

[Setael]

I'm not doubting your town, but not for that reason. It's quite possible the scum would forego a NK especially after the first scum is lynched in order to establish townishness.

I can see why you'd think that but I disagree. If I was scum, I think I would definitely have made a NK because none of you would ever be able to transport me, so where is my motivation to stay hidden? The only threat to me would be if the Town was able to find and kill both spiritualists, and that might take quite awhile. Plus let's not forget that the mafia knows exactly who the cop and doc are so of course they'd have been motivated to off them if they'd had a NK last night. I recognize that doesn't totally clear me, but I do think that if mafia had been lynched d1 they'd have killed the cop last night.

When you lynch a power role It's role will be revealed. Mafia will be called vanilla

That is fabulous news. Today's lynch is key because if we lynch the real cop we're sitting pretty, but if we lynch the mafia both the cop and doc are vulnerable to a NK.

We need everyone to give feedback as to who they think is the real cop. I'm going to list all of kabenon and kilroy's posts here. It is of course ideal to read them in context, but I think it might help to have all their posts consolidated here. I’m going to think on it a bit and then post my reasons for which of them I think is the real cop.

So, if I am reading this correctly, the only way that our power roles, eg. the doc and cop, will have any sort of power, is if they are dead. So the question that obviously comes from this is do we have them come out so we can lynch them and thereby have power roles, or do we wait and try to lynch scum the old fashion way, and if we hit one of our power roles, then all the better? I'm leaning toward the latter, since we might hit scum without sacrificing any townie deaths, but in the event of a mislynch we can gain a little something from it.

no, ckillor, as I gathered from the setup, it's three phases, as in Day1, Night1, Day2. So the power role would get power either day2 or night 2. So we would lose one other person, I believe. I could have interpreted it wrong, but that is what I gather.

Hmm... Night_Light raises a good point. The first thought that occurred to me was, "We lynch the Doctor, have the Channeller claim, and... win?" But, upon actually considering the game, you are correct, they can in fact lie.

I'm hesitant to lynch someone. Consider, if the Scum got the ability to shepherd people to the afterlife? What position would we be in, then?

spambot raises a good point. I could see that as a distinctly possible scenario, but I would hope that Max has some sort of counter to that, for that would just make the game far too easy, and therefore boring. I would assume that the major counter to spambot's point is that scum could claim cop as well, and then we are right back to square one, and then what? We really have no information to make an educated guess as to who is the true cop or doc or whatever. As far as I can see, the first person we lynch needs to be town... power role. I think. This game is going to fry my already fragile mind!!!

Should there be a Cop counter-claim, I'm thinking we should leave the "Cops" and Lynch the Doc instead.

Who's to say there will not be a scum counter-claim of the doctor, also?

so neutrals are almost like their own faction, kinda. They want to survive, where town just wants mafia dead? Is that correct? And we won't be able to tell if a scum is dead cuz they will be called vanilla, and we won't know until they pass into the afterlife that they are scum? So much info! Head... can't... take it... *boom*

I was going to post something, but explaining it defeats a plan I have. So, I propose this: Why don't we all claim being Vanilla Town, if we are Vanilla Town? I think this would be a good starting point, and, at the end of it all, I will explain to you all my idea.

Also: Neutrals and the Soul Talker-People-Guys should probably claim Vanilla Town. If we decide to do my plan.

Doing so will give the Mafia a choice: Claim vanilla, and reduce their chances of confusing the Town when the Doc/Cop come out, or not, and then they're out on the chopping block. Either way, it forces them into a lie, and that's always a good thing.

I'm not explaining my idea. It's rather suspicious to ask me about all the details of my plan, also, since I said explaining it defeats the purpose. It informs the Mafia which side I'm hoping they go towards.

I think our best bet then is to have power roles claim. But keep the spirit channeler person secret. What does everyone else think? I'm not sure if I like the idea of our hopes hinging on a plan that even we don't know. Sorry kilroy, but I'm not that trusting of a person. You could be scum seeking the channeler. If all the vanillas claim, and then we lynch all of our power roles so they can get power, then there would only be one person left: the channeler. And then you kill him off and the scum channeler, and boom! we're left without power roles.

Mm... I missed that you said Talker People should claim vanilla too... but still I don't like the thought of the whole town following one person, especially this early in a game that needs the perfect first move.

The problem being, if only the power roles claim, then a scum can come in and say, "Oh, yeah, and I'm Cop, BTW. I... wasn't paying attention." By forcing everyone to make a decision, it locks them into that, even if they may want to change their answer in the future.

What other choice have we, other than to just hunt scum on our own and then, by process of elimination, we have our power roles and vanillas? I suppose that that could actually work, really. But I don't really see another option, other than kilroy's master plan.

We also could just lynch a vanilla townie first, just to get a townie as the first person lynched kind of thing, you know? Just a thought.

How do you know that the first one you killed is a real townie?

How will know that we have killed a real power role? We just have to use our judgement, I guess.

I think that this has already been suggested, but if we get into a really nasty counter-claim war our odds of not lynching scum (the desireable case) would actually be higher at that point if we just picked someone from the vanilla pool.

I infer from this post you think there is a greater chance of us hitting scum than a townie, correct? But I think you are wrong. Even if all the scum claim vanilla, that is three to what? Like, supposing that there are 9 left, minus scum, then take out the two power roles doc and cop. there are still 7 townies we could hit. 7:3 is much better odds of hitting a townie than if we have the power roles claim and then have scum claim as well, which would lead to odds like 2:1 or even 2:2. So in my opinion trying to lynch a vanilla is the best option, as the ratio of scum to vanilla is more favorable.

Duh, sorry, I misinterpretted there night_light. My mistake. I missed the "higher..."

Damn college is frying my ability to read!

Im game for Y's suggestion, so long as the group picked from is decided after everyone, and I mean everyone! has claimed. No one can be left out on this one. Everyone must claim, or the entire purpose is defeated.

Everyone has to claim, but I'm sure the scum are thinking right now, "Hah, we just won't. What're they going to do, lynch us?" No. Those who refuse to claim will not be lynched. That gives us better odds of hitting a Town as our first lynch. Let them not claim.

I'm all for a mass-claim. I'll even go first, when it's been officially decided.

Yeah death_omen. We don't want scum lynched first. Care to explain this slip-up?

I think Y's plan is just a little bit better than Setael's, because 1: What do we do upon the inevitable counterclaim, 2: What if multiple people claim to be the doc/cop (as in, more than 2?), 3: It seems like the first person has no ability but to usher along new souls, even if he is a power role. Mod, is that correct?

I'm eager to get the claim underway. Talking about it is doing little but outing D_O as scum.

1. ckillor
2. Coron
3. death_omen
4. Draux
5. kabenon007
6. Kilroy8675309
7. Night_Light
8. Qman
9. RandomActs
10. Spambot
11. Seteal
12. Y

As I would like to get this started. Even if we're not up to it right now, we can just go with whoever the dice selects the instant we're ready. Tell us, O mighty dice... who shall claim?
Dice Roll:
Original Roll String: 1d12
1 12-Sided Dice Results: 9

The dice have spoken. Obey.

Yes, I believe there used to be No Lynch. However, after a few people pointed out that we could just Lynch the Cop and go No Lynch until he's investigated everybody, Max probably removed that rule. He even added that even if a Deadline should be imposed, there must still be a Lynch.

When did Max say these things? I do not remember them... maybe my brain is fried, but I don't recall...

yep, I think the sooner we get this going, the less time the scum have to come up with an idea as to how to escape.

Technically, the dice have been rolled.

Oh, so, because the dice chose him, he, and only he, has been thinking about what he's gonna claim? That's nice of the scum. I didn't realize they were so good, as to stop thinking about what they were going to do until their number actually came up. Whew.

Well, I really don't like how the mass role claim was set off so abruptly, but I guess there's no stopping it now. Allow me to introduce myself: kabenon007, cop of dead people have powers.

and spambot, why would waiting to see what other people claim have any difference on your claim at all? Wouldn't your claim remain the same?

Kabenon is scum. I, Kilroy8675309, am the Cop.

I am curious what you think should've been done differently. Do you think it should've been more structured? Did you like the idea of 24 hours notice? Please explain why you disagree with the abruptness - I personally only see it hindering the scums.

I really liked the idea of randomness to see who went next, because then scum would be put on the spot in possibly a moment's notice, and if it took em awhile to respond, well it's obvious why. With everyone just mass claiming now, the scum can sit back and see what happens, and then act based on other's role claims.

FOV Kilroy for counterclaiming cop. Not a good idea, scum. Should have stuck with vanilla.

Cute. I'm not going to argue with you, because there's no argument either of us can make to convince the Town. You know you're scum, I know you're scum, and I know I'm the Cop. That's as far as we can go, really.

So, we're not lynching me, kabenon, Spambot, or RandomActs today. That's fun. I submit to you, however, you should have stuck with vanilla. Losing one Town candidate to unlynchability doesn't quarter (or possibly third) the Town's chances of lynching a vanilla Town.

Thoughts: Spambot, I think, is the scums. Based on the way Kabenon & he interacted. Of course, I have a different perspective, being, you know, the cop.

Very nice kilroy. Make an argument against my claim by turning my own line against me. Creative

Cute. I'm not going to argue with you, because there's no argument either of us can make to convince the Town. You know you're scum, I know you're scum, and I know I'm the Cop. That's as far as we can go, really.

Sounds like an argument to me.

I'm not turning anything back on you. I'm stating the truth. You have injured your own team's performance.

I'll go ahead and present my scum list:

Spambot
kabenon
death_omen (possibly the scum spiritualist)
DeliciousGoldfish

I tend to agree with Setael's list...

I tend to agree with Y on Setael's list. It's rather good, actually, and probably pretty accurate.

I would like to hear d_o's scum list, though. Obviously, he doesn't concur with this list. Well... maybe not openly.

Neutral really should be claiming Neutral, however, because if they're in the general Vanilla Townie pool, it's very likely they will be lynched.

I think the Transporter has to make a decision upon their death, and then deal with the ramifications of said decision. That's how I interpreted it as.

I think Spambot's the DocScum, based on his playstyle, his interactions with kabenon (see below), and his above statement concerning me and my alignment. I'm not a big fan of having it questioned.

I think kabenon's the CopScum, 'cause it says in my role PM that I'm the Cop, because he's antagonistic and puts together poor arguments, and because of his interactions with Spambot (see above).

EBWODP:

And because he's opportunistically disappeared.

Well, I think it is needless to say who I think the real cop is, but should any of you not be reading the thread (as it has been accused), I am the real cop. I'm actually interested in where Kilroy gets the idea that I am antagnonistic.

Kilroy will jump on this opportunity, but I think Spambot is the real doc. I just think that throughout this game he has given off a much more town vibe, more actively helping than RandomActs has. As for the remaining scum who claimed town, I cannot say for sure. I will think about it and reread and post that little nugget of wisdom later.

Also, happy birthday to our own DG!

I have my response to Setael's question typed and ready to post, just as soon as D_O claims.

While you are waiting Kilroy, perhaps you could answer the question I posed, which you are so casually avoiding.

Hm... okay, so it wasn't a direct question, it was more inferred, but still...

Here, for clarity's sake, how do you find me antagonistic, Kilroy?

Sorry guys, had some real-world issues to attend to. Here's my response:

"Heh... here's the thing: I forgot what my plan was between the first and second post where I mentioned it. I may have remembered it, but, I remember thinking my original plan was a lot cooler than what I came up with by the second.

It's basically the "Lynch a Vanilla" plan. I'm aware that's not consistent with my first post, as I said the Soul dudes & Neutrals should claim vanilla, but, what can I say? I've forgotten. Either way, I whole-heartedly expected to be counter-claimed (or, as the case may be, counter-claiming), and that does of course lower the amount of scums among the general populous.

Now, however, I think that Neutrals should claim Neutral (obviously "Lynch all Liars" would not apply to them), and the Spirit dudes should claim vanilla (what're the odds we hit the one?)"

Didn't the CopScum ask me a question? Oh, yeah. You're antagonistic because you attempted to draw me out when I specifically stated I wasn't going to argue with you, because you're Scum and there's no point.

We should be getting to a lynch soon. And to that one person, who thinks that we should begin "utilizing the Cop" to find the third Mafia after we've lynched scum and made them the gatekeeper-person, good luck with convincing the Mafia to let me pass through, hey?

The point was, Kilroy, that you were arguing with me. I was merely pointing out the fact that you were doing what you said you wouldn't do. I didn't press it further.

I, in fact, wasn't arguing with you. I stated facts. If you are confused as to the difference, please consult a dictionary.

Argument: a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

You know you're scum

ie: You're scum
connected to:

I know you're scum

ie: you're scum
connected to:

and I know I'm the Cop

ie: you aren't the cop, and therefore scum
connected to:

Thoughts: Spambot, I think, is the scums. Based on the way Kabenon & he interacted

ie:Spambot and I are scum buddies, which implies that Kilroy thinks I am scum.

all this amounts to the proposition that Kilroy thinks I am scum. Perhaps you should have consulted that dictionary before asking me to.

Yes, but if we lynch a power role claimed mafia, they will show up as vanilla, not the power role that he claimed. So either way you would know.

And I am working on my case against Kilroy, just wanted to post that little tidbit.

I have made a case against Kabenon. I've said what I have to say, and I said I wouldn't argue whether or not I'm the cop with him (something he neglected to mention).

Basically, a summation of my points would be his interaction with spambot (who I am also convinced is the scum, though obviously not as assuredly,) his Straw-Man attacks, because he disappeared when the heat was on, and because it says in my PM that I'm the Cop, though really I'm the only one who can validate that one.

Thus, I should be lynched. Or the guy who counter-claimed spambot, though I suppose that's not as pressing, yeah?

Throughout this game, Kilroy has been attempting to lead the town, which is something a cop does not do. A cop is meant to guide, not lead. In the beginning of the game, he made the suggestion of a plan. But he would not reveal the nuances of said plan, thereby, if the town were to go along with his proposal, we would have basically given over control to Kilroy. Also, he tries to take power again in his pre-emptive initiation of the claim with his dice roll in post 74. He starts the ball rolling early, without the consent of I don't believe anyone. Here again is an example of Kilroy attempting to garner himself some control.

Also, his arguments against me so far, (and he doesn't even call them arguments) have been feeble at best. He argues my arguments are Straw-Man, but I can't even see a spot where I really had to make much of an argument. The whole first day was not about arguments, but about setting up strategy and deciding how to go about lynching so we could have ourselves a town transporter. It seems to me that Kilroy was looking for something to say against me and didn't bother to go back and read the thread. That is my case, feel free to ask questions if you wish.

[Setael]

Welcome sweet skitzer!

[Setael]

So you think kilroy is the real cop, right? Just making sure you understand that at this point we want to lynch the real cop and not the imposter.

[Setael]

I'll give you a breakdown, since this would be a confusing game to reread.

The setup is basically that there is mortality, purgatory and the afterlife. Mortality is where you are before you are lynched; purgatory is where you go when you are lynched; and once you are in the afterlife, you are out of the game and can no longer participate.

I am in purgatory because I was lynched d1. The rest of you are still mortals. The first person lynched is the transporter so I now have the role of choosing who to send to the afterlife. So once we lynch someone, I decide whether to transport them to the afterlife or not. Once that decision is made, they stick around for 3 game days and then are out of the game.

Power roles can only use their power once they are in purgatory so we would like to get our cop and doc there. Scum cannot make night kills until they are in purgatory, so we are trying to not lynch them yet if we can help it because our doc and cop will then be vulnerable to NKs. Once we have our cop and doc safely in purgatory, we could then go about trying to lynch scum and transporting them on to the afterlife. For now, the identity of the spiritualists needs to remain hidden at all costs because once they die all ties to the afterlife are cut off which means we'll lose the cop, the doc and me. If at any time the Town spiritualist is about to be lynched, they will need to claim, but not until they are -1 and their lynch is imminent. By that time the doc should be in purgatory and would be able to protect the spiritualist as long as that is needed.

So. Things are in the Town's favor in that we managed to get a Townie as the Transporter. Our main goal now is to lynch the cop so he can start making investigations. So the most helpful thing you (and everyone else) can do is help us figure out if kilroy or kabenon is the real cop. We all need to vote for the one we think is the real cop so they can be lynched and start investigating.

Also, as you're doing your re-read you will notice that we did a mass claim. There's really no need for you to claim at this point, but if you decide to, be aware of the following:

1 - The spiritualist should remain hidden. It would be very beneficial to the mafia to discover the identity of the Town spiritualist. Spiritualist should claim vanilla townie.
2 - There has been some debate about whether neutrals should claim vanilla or neutral. I am of the opinion that they should claim vanilla because mafia only has to kill off the townies in order to win, so if they claim neutral, mafia will have no motivation to NK them and their NK pool is therefore narrowed.

Let us know if you have any questions, unless it's something like "What should I do if I'm neutral?" which wouldn't be wise. A full read-through is a must, but this might help clarify a few things.

[Setael]

Bold is me.

I'm 99% sure Setael is Townie. I don't think the setup is so evil that the actual role of our Transporter would be hidden. Whoever we Lynched Day 1 would have their full role and alignment revealed, in my opinion. The Mod has said that you are a Townie. Mod: Setael IS a Townie, correct?

If I was mafia, you would not be told so. I would've come up vanilla either way. So you really

don't

have any way of knowing for sure. Your best evidence is that there is no reason for me to have not made a NK last night if I was scum. I would have known the identity of both the cop and the doc and I guarantee you that if I was scum the cop would be dead right now.

Scum cannot make night kills until they are in purgatory, so we are trying to not lynch them yet if we can help it because our doc and cop will then be vulnerable to NKs.

Huh? Wouldn't we want our power roles dead? =/

Not sure how you're misunderstanding... but what I meant is we are trying to not lynch mafia yet because if we accidentally lynch mafia

before

we are able to lynch our power roles, they will then be vulnerable to NKs.

2 - There has been some debate about whether neutrals should claim vanilla or neutral. I am of the opinion that they should claim vanilla because mafia only has to kill off the townies in order to win, so if they claim neutral, mafia will have no motivation to NK them and their NK pool is therefore narrowed.

But you're saying that from a Townie's perspective. Using your logic, Neutrals would rather claim Neutral, no? Don't encourage them. Wait... >_>

Yeah, I guess this is from a Townie's perspective. I'm a little fuzzy on neutrals.

Mod: Does the Town have to kill off all the neutrals in order to win? Or do both the Town and Neutrals win if neutrals survive to end game?

[Setael]

Ah I see. I've been assuming that scum NK's send people directly to the afterlife.

Mod: clarification on that?

Also, I disagree that we need to hear more from the claimed cops. It would be helpful, but I think we should all be trying to form an opinion based on what they've already posted.

[Setael]

Max: Can we also please get a prod on ckillor?

done

[Setael]

I'd like another clarification:
Mod: If the transporter sends some one to the afterlife right away when they die, will it still take three game phases, or that person will never make it to purgatory?

I'm guessing you meant "or that person will never make it to the afterlife". imo it's pretty clear that at any time after anyone has been lynched I can decide to transport that person to the afterlife. Once that decision has been made, they then have 3 game phases before they are transported out of the game. If that's not accurate, I guess we do need clarification.

I think that Draux has a point there. We actually want the cop and all scum dead, so it doesn't really matter in which order they are killed (Although killing the real cop first will give us more nights to find scum and more townies alive).

This makes no sense. If we choose incorrectly and lynch mafia tonight, they will then be able to make a NK tonight. What is to stop them from killing the real cop tonight? I don't see any way in which it's pro-Town to suggest that it doesn't matter what order they're killed in. Every time Y posts he sounds less and less Town.

[Setael]

Interesting... mafia NKs only send people to purgatory. So yeah, you guys are right. It doesn't really matter if we kill mafia or the real cop first because if mafia NKs the cop or doc, all that does is send them to purgatory, where they can then start using their power role.

So the decision for today's lynch isn't quite as dire as I thought. I'm thinking kabenon is the real cop, so

vote: kabenon

. My main reasons are kilroy's lack of helpful content, and the fact that he "forgot" his plan. Reading over both of their posts, kabenon sounds more Town. If I'm wrong and he's actually mafia, in light of this new clarification, it won't be so drastic if we accidentally lynch mafia first.

[Setael]

Now I'm confused. Can someone explain to me what he means by that?

[Setael]

The mod has told us several times that mafia will show up Townie until they hit the afterlife. If I was mafia, the mod would've told you I was a Townie just like he did. It's not lying - it's in the game set up that mafia show up as Townie until they are transported to the afterlife, at which time their full role and alignment is revealed. I don't know why this has to be clarified over and over and over.

Regardless of that fact, I am a Townie and your best evidence of that is, as I have said over and over and over is that I would have made a NK last night if I was mafia. I probably also would've known that mafia NK's are sent to purgatory rather than the afterlife, which is what I was incorrectly assuming.

[Setael]

Ok I see. I was thinking I had missed a rule about the mafia's objective being different in this game.

The main reason to want the doc in purgatory is so that if we accidentally push the Town spiritualist into claiming, the doc will be in purgatory where he can then protect the spiritualist. I say we just lynch all 4 claimed power roles. It gets 2 scum out of our way and 2 power roles to purgatory where they can be useful. After that, we will not want to lynch any more townies and the goal will be to lynch the remaining scum. The cop will be making investigations so we should be able to find them before they kill off too many townies.

If one of the mafia who has claimed either cop or doc is a mafia RB, that could be a problem since they would be able to block for 3 game phases. Just in case, we should lynch the most town seeming doc second. That will also prevent us one more night of NK unless we guess incorrectly.

[Setael]

@kabenon: My preference would be a death_omen investigation. I wouldn't investigate the docs since we will find out their alignment as soon as we lynch them both, which we'll need to do right away anyway - so don't waste an investigation on them.

[Setael]

I think the last scum is most likely Y. It bothers me that he's voting for Kabenon, but I'm not going to change my mind based on that. Maybe I'm wrong about either one or maybe Y is just trying to look townie so he can stay alive longer. I'm really not sure.

Basically, anybody that shows up as vanilla on the lynch scene should just be sent on, to be safe.

Spambot knows that we will very soon know his alignment. I'm wondering if this post was distancing... so that if/when Spambot comes up scum we'd think Y is Town. Just a hunch. If Spambot comes up Town, of course, this point is null and void.

Also, you say it bothers you that he's voting Kabenon... we will probably know Kabenon's alignment shortly - don't you think the last scum would be motivated to be on the wagon of the real cop?

[Setael]

No. The Scum would try to get their fellow CopScum Lynched before the real Cop. I'd think that a useful Cop is the last thing the Scum would want at this point.

I don't think the remaining scum would endanger their anonymity to try to reverse this wagon, especially since there are already several votes on it.

[Setael]

im feeling very suspicious of Kabenon007 right now.

Care to say why?

[Setael]

Okay then. Good luck, Town. It's almost fun, watching you all condemn yourselves to this fate.

Are you taking your ball and going home?

That's

funny

. kilroy is totally that kid that always stole my lunch money and put a bee in my hair, and then ran crying to the teacher when we wouldn't let him play Four Square with us.

im feeling very suspicious of Kabenon007 right now.

Care to say why?

he keeps talknig like he is going to (not) die or die im not 100% sure, its confusing. and that he is the real cop and if we kill the other cop claimer then we will be sorry.

Hmmm... kilroy is actually doing that more than kabenon, so if anything that's a reason to think kabenon is the real cop

it's just odd how now he is asking for requests on who he should investigate. theres something false seeming in there.

It's actually pretty pro-Town to ask who people are the most suspicious of, and therefore who he should investigate. Your reasons are weak. I'm not saying kabenon isn't scum, because he very well may be but I think you have not given decent reasons for thinking so. If you are scum, you are not being subtle enough, and if you are pro-Town, please come up with a better reason for your kabenon suspicions.

[Setael]

i think you switched the names here of who said what, not a big deal but just a bit confusing.

So I did! Full credit for the joke goes to Spambot.

[Setael]

kilroy, if you are indeed Town, could you give us your prime suspects? If we really are lynching mafia, they will make a NK tonight and we could use some more info about everyone's suspicions so that we can get some kind of info for d3.

[Setael]

unvote

rather be safe than sorry!

I believe that we should lynch someone who hasn't been very contributive. That way it is more safe.

I can't tell if skitzer just doesn't understand the game setup, or if he's scum. Can you explain to us what would be more "safe" about lynching someone who isn't contributing? Are you thinking it is a mistake to try to lynch the real cop? Are you suggesting we lynch scum instead, and if so why?

[Setael]

First, we aren't allowed to no lynch.

Second, how did the mass role claim fail?

Third, I still think death omen is scum.

[Setael]

That's probably why she's voting kabenon - she probably thinks he's the real cop. I know I do.

[Setael]

skitzer - did you read this summary I wrote. It should clear things up. Here it is again:

The setup is basically that there is mortality, purgatory and the afterlife. Mortality is where you are before you are lynched; purgatory is where you go when you are lynched; and once you are in the afterlife, you are out of the game and can no longer participate.

I am in purgatory because I was lynched d1. The rest of you are still mortals. The first person lynched is the transporter so I now have the role of choosing who to send to the afterlife. So once we lynch someone, I decide whether to transport them to the afterlife or not. Once that decision is made, they stick around for 3 game days and then are out of the game.

Power roles can only use their power once they are in purgatory so we would like to get our cop and doc there. Scum cannot make night kills until they are in purgatory, so we are trying to not lynch them yet if we can help it because our doc and cop will then be vulnerable to NKs. Once we have our cop and doc safely in purgatory, we could then go about trying to lynch scum and transporting them on to the afterlife. For now, the identity of the spiritualists needs to remain hidden at all costs because once they die all ties to the afterlife are cut off which means we'll lose the cop, the doc and me. If at any time the Town spiritualist is about to be lynched, they will need to claim, but not until they are -1 and their lynch is imminent. By that time the doc should be in purgatory and would be able to protect the spiritualist as long as that is needed.

So. Things are in the Town's favor in that we managed to get a Townie as the Transporter. Our main goal now is to lynch the cop so he can start making investigations. So the most helpful thing you (and everyone else) can do is help us figure out if kilroy or kabenon is the real cop. We all need to vote for the one we think is the real cop so they can be lynched and start investigating.

Also, as you're doing your re-read you will notice that we did a mass claim. There's really no need for you to claim at this point, but if you decide to, be aware of the following:

1 - The spiritualist should remain hidden. It would be very beneficial to the mafia to discover the identity of the Town spiritualist. Spiritualist should claim vanilla townie.
2 - There has been some debate about whether neutrals should claim vanilla or neutral. I am of the opinion that they should claim vanilla because mafia only has to kill off the townies in order to win, so if they claim neutral, mafia will have no motivation to NK them and their NK pool is therefore narrowed.

Let us know if you have any questions, unless it's something like "What should I do if I'm neutral?" which wouldn't be wise. A full read-through is a must, but this might help clarify a few things.

I agree that RandomActs' last post looked pretty scummy. I'd need to reread both docs though before deciding who to vote tomorrow.

[Setael]

No, I think they will show up as neutral, since once they're dead they're out of the game. There is no transporting to the afterlife for neutrals, as far as I understand.

[Setael]

I can see why you might think that. I specifically pointed that out because I think it is more helpful to scum than to town for neutrals to claim, since it narrows down the scums NK list. All those who pushed for neutrals to claim are on my scum watch list.

[Setael]

We need to get this moving. kabenon is clearly going to be the one lynched. I have no confidence that kilroy will ever be helpful enough to turn it around. Can we please just get a few more kabenon votes? The general consensus is that he's the real cop, but if we're wrong, worst case scenario is he's scum and there's a NK tonight. Won't be the end of the world.

[Setael]

My choice of whether to transport someone or not will not be revealed until the third phase, when they are sent on. I have been instructed not to post my choice in thread.

kabenon is obviously scum, and I'm thinking ckillor is as well. I'm confused what to think about death_omen - I was thinking he was scum but I don't think kabenon would fake investigate and clear a scum buddy. That's WIFOM though since that could be exactly what he was hoping we'd think. I dunno.

Regardless, the next lynch needs to be kilroy so he can start investigating.

vote: kilroy

It's possible scum have a post restriction once they're lynched, which would mean kabenon now has a post restriction. Everything else he's said is obviously bull.

[Setael]

Do you have to decide this upon death, or anytime between the three phases?

I can decide at any time.

Haha, so, looks like you finally came around, did you? Well, I have to say, Y, I'm surprised you don't believe me, seeing as how you are my scum buddy. I would have thought you would have not gone right for the throat with your first post. Oh well. Vote Skitzer

*sigh* I'm beginning to think that upon death kabenon became a jester. that's annoying.

[Setael]

Alright, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think we should be lynching me today and that the town spiritualist should claim. Now, this is from my perspective, and if you guys don't trust me then it can't possibly seem like a good plan to you guys.

However, if I am a ghost and can protect the spiritualist every night, I don't think the scum can win. It looks like the setup was completely open, so there should be no chance of them being able to interfere, and the only way I see us losing now is if the spiritualist dies and then the neutrals/last scum gain control of the lynch.

I haven't worked out the math, so I don't know if it's necessary to do this now, but we only need to keep one townie alive to win.

I think if anything else we try to lynch another scum today, that way they only gain one extra kill (kabenon with two nights left, new scum with 3). That cuts down on their number of shots at townies.

It looks like NightLight was town, and who knows how many we have left alive?

Does anybody disagree with my plan here for a reason other than not trusting me? I'm trying to figure out if there is a problem with my logic.

Spambot has a point. If mafia accidentally or on purpose NK the Town spiritualist tonight then we have a problem. If that were to happen, we would not want to lynch the real cop after all because it would do us no good - all ties to the afterlife would be cut off and he would not be able to make any investigations.

The worst thing that could happen is Spambot comes up vanilla (meaning he is scum) and they are able to make another NK while we are unable to make an investigation. Anyone think this is Spambot's goal? It also seemed like he may have been trying to trick the Town spiritualist into claiming before he is lynched. He should have told the Town spiritualist to NOT claim until after he comes up doc.

@the Town spiritualist: DO NOT CLAIM until after Spambot is lynched and comes up doc. If he comes up vanilla, he is lying to us and you will not want to claim because you will be vulnerable to scum NKs.

I'm torn. I can see scum being more likely to come up with this plan than the real doc, actually, since it prevents us from investigating someone tonight. Also, Spambot's play has been a lot like kabenon's was - very active and helpful and town friendly, and then kabenon came up scum. I need to reread them both, but I'm wondering if RandomActs is the real doc.

I'm also wondering about this:

that way they only gain one extra kill (kabenon with two nights left, new scum with 3)

Has Max told us this? My understanding was that once one scum dies, they are able to start making NKs and can for the rest of the game. Did anyone else assume it works the way Spambot said, or is it possible Spambot knows this because he is scum?

Mod: Can scum only make NKs if one of them has been lynched, but has not yet moved on to the afterlife? Or now that one has been lynched, are they able to make NKs every night from now on regardless?

[Setael]

I was actually kind of saying that the spiritualist might want to claim today if we lynch me, because otherwise the scum get a free shot at them. I realize this plan requires a ton of faith in you guys believing me, but I KNOW it's the right play. If you need me to try and convince you that RandomActs is lying, then just look at how he's been playing. He's been lurking very hard for the past couple days, and he hasn't even checked in today, I don't think. The way he jumped on Kabenon near the end despite "Spambot voting for him too" stinks as hell now.

Regarding the scum nightkills, that was a flavor assumption on my part. I don't know if I read that anywhere, but I just assumed that if there was no ghost scum, who would be carrying out the kills?

I would like to reiterate to the Town Spiritualist -

DO NOT CLAIM.

This post of Spambot's made me very suspicious that he is the scum. He seems to be trying to get the Town Spiritualist to claim so they can NK him. If he doesn't claim, the odds are very low scum will hit him tonight. However, if he claims and Spambot happens to be scum, the Town Spiritualist gets NK'd and scum then have full control over when ties to the afterlife are cut off because they know who the scum spiritualist is. Spambot's plan seems really scummy. IGMEOY.

@skitzer - are you reading the game? I don't see how you're not understanding, unless you're just not reading. Do what you want. If you aren't going to read the game, then yes you need to get replaced.

@kilroy - don't be so smug. It's your own fault we didn't lynch the real cop. You should be taking full responsibility and apologizing to the town instead of trying to blame us. EVERYONE agreed that you seemed more scummy than kabenon. Whose fault do you think that is?

[Setael]

Yes, I do think you'd come up with "such a ballsy plan" as scum because you are claimed and know we will be lynching you soon. If you are scum, we will know it shortly and no longer trust what you are saying. It makes sense that you would try to get the spiritualist to claim BEFORE you die if once you die we're no longer going to trust you.

[Setael]

Bold is me.

You're not even trying to look at this from a townie perspective. I've been here posting and trying all game, and RandomActs has done crap.

Obviously, I'm a townie. So obviously I'm looking at this from a townie perspective. My point is, kabenon was here and posting all game and seemed really pro-Town (like you). kilroy acted more like RandomActs. kilroy was the real cop and kabenon was scum. Since we've found out he's scum, kabenon's play has changed entirely, wouldn't you say? You haven't addressed the fact that if we take this into account, you are likely scum.

Are we agreed that we want to either lynch the doc or scum today?

Like Y said, no. My last post said I thought we are agreed that we still need to lynch the cop today. Why did you totally disregard that?

Then take your pick, either way it's win-win from your perspective. Either I'm scum and you got me, or I'm the doc and the spiritualist can claim tomorrow.

I disagree, because it's one less night we have a chance to make an investigation. The sooner the cop can start making investigations, the better chance we have to win. If you are scum, I can understand why you're trying to keep the cop from being able to make investigations. Savvy?

Vote: Spambot

Now, let's think about this. The scum isn't necessarily motivated to kill the Town spiritualist right now, because it also cuts off any dead scum. Soon there will be 2 dead scum and if we get lucky, we'll find the other 2 through investigations. If that's the case the mafia won't want to kill our spiritualist. They are, however, very interested in finding out who it is because if we mislynch a few times, then they will want to NK the spiritualist to cut out the votes of all dead townies. So the Town Spiritualist should still NOT CLAIM. Under no circumstance do we want the scum to know their identity. If we lynch the wrong doc, we've wasted a night we could've investigated someone.

It's a much better idea to lynch kilroy. My preference for kilroy's investigation would be death omen or Y.

[Setael]

Can we get a VC too, please?

And I'd like to ask everyone who hasn't voted for kilroy to tell us why.

[Setael]

I'm beginning to think kabenon's so called "post limit" was that he had to try to post something as often as possible and as distracting as possible.

We need the cop to be able to make investigations. Everyone just vote for kilroy and get this moving.

[Setael]

Agreed. If he's not a cop, he's mafia and either way it's a win win.

[Setael]

Don't worry, Max. None of us are listening to kabenon, so the way you posted the VC didn't throw us off.

Calling all pro-Town players! We need a couple more kilroy votes!

[Setael]

*nods*

[Setael]

I

really

hope kilroy investigated death omen and I

really

hope he came up scum. It is time for him to be out of this game.

[Setael]

Welcome back, DG. I almost forgot you were in the game. Where ya been?

there is definitely a possibility that kabenon knew that if he went down, anyone he had said he had investigated would be looked at as scum.

By the time he said he investigated someone, he had already shown up as "vanilla" which meant he was scum. So... this argument bears no weight at all imo.

[Setael]

Spambot, you don't have to respond to this, but I think it would be helpful if you did.

First, you say the last scum won't be hard to find. (There are actually probably 2 - the last scum and the scum spiritualist). I would very much appreciate your insight regarding who those 2 are before you replace out.

Also, you said yourself that following your plan meant we had to trust your claim implicitly. You are the only one who knows your alignment, so you need to understand if the rest of us think there's a chance you are the scum, because we have NO proof otherwise. In fact, like I said before, your play has been very helpful and Town and SO WAS Kabenon's and he turned up scum. So what do you expect from us? Do you honestly think we should just roll over and believe everything you say? If so, you don't understand how this game works. I am glad we did not have the spiritualist claim because on the off chance that you were scum, the Town would be screwed. And guess what? The town spiritualist was NOT NK'd last night so why are you so upset?

This game is not as cut and dry as you are saying. There is a very good chance mafia will still win, since they will likely be getting NKs the rest of the game. Plus, if we are wrong about who we find suspicious we'll mislynch and a couple of those and we lose.

It would be helpful if you would stay because you understand how the game works and your role is likely to be today's lynch. Whoever replaces you might be like death omen or skitzer who never understand the game, either because they're not reading or not bright enough.

Your choice.

[Setael]

mod: can we please get a prod on kilroy?

He hasn't posted in 8 days and we're at a stand still until we get his investigation results.

[Setael]

I'm here. However, I did not investigate anyone last night, due to outside circumstances involving my family. I apologize for that.

Wow. You're the most unhelpful cop in history.

[Setael]

No, Y. We want to try to lynch the real doc so that if we accidentally force the town spiritualist into claiming (by wagoning him) we can protect him.

I'd like everyone to post who they think the real doc is. After Spambot's blow up I'm not really sure anymore. I'm going to reread both of them and decide.

[Setael]

We don't have long to decide. For the same reasons Draux listed, I think RandomActs is more likely to be the real doc. Worst comes to worst, we're lynching scum which is also a good thing.

vote: RandomActs

[Setael]

We don't have many townies left. We can't afford lynching townies on purpose. Let's assume that RandomActs is the real doc. Will he be better than Kilroy? I don't think so. He's better for us as a townie that counts against the mafia than as an unactive doc.

I think the best way to win is to just lynch all the scum we can.

Ok so Y, answer me this: What happens if we start a wagon on death_omen, who several people seem to believe is scum (myself included). Then when he's -1 we find out we were wrong and he claims Town spiritualist. If we have lynched the doc, we're ok because he can protect the Town spiritualist, but if we have not lynched the doc then the Town spiritualist is vulnerable to a NK. I don't disagree that we should start lynching only scum soon. i just think it would be wise to have the doc able to use his power first. If you disagree, please explain why.

And before some idiot who isn't paying attention says "Setael said death_omen is the spiritualist but she said before she thinks he's scum! Lynch her!" (this type of thing is getting REALLY OLD) let me explain that this was just an example. If death_omen came up scum, we'd still have another scum to find and we could very easily force the spiritualist to claim while finding the next scum.

This game has lost its purpose we seem to going from wrong to wrong, our cop is so madune that he even didnt wish to help us. This is our game to lose , dont really care now because our cop cant even get a proper investigation in and he will be gone by tommorow night into afterlife?

Ps. whats the point of getting another town alligned play lynched when there is no killing roles that are dead?

I'm really tired of death_omen not trying to understand the game. Every time he posts he says another thing that proves he doesn't understand the game at all, and I'm getting tired of explaining it and him not listening.

1) As was mentioned, why on earth would I transport the cop?
2) How can you possibly think that "there is no killing roles that are dead"? Have you really missed the fact that scum are still in the game for 3 game days after they are transported? In case you still don't understand that, it means kabenon will still be able to make a NK tonight.

I can't figure out if you are smart scum or Town that is either not paying attention, or just doesn't understand the game. Either way, it's getting old.

[Setael]

I think there will be no night kills until we kill another mafioso. Two reasons:
1. Dead means in purgatory, and Max said they can kill only while there's a dead mafia.
2. The killings were maid by a ghost. Kabenon disappeared in the killing scene, so he can make no more kills.

Max clarified this when he announced that kabenon had been transferred:

Kabenon, Mafia, Transfered over to the afterlife, Night 2, Day 2, Night 3

Kabenon has 3 game phases after being transferred (Night 2, Day 2, Night 3), which means he will be able to make a NK tonight (Night 3) and then he'll be gone.

I have not seen anything to make me think that if 2 scum are dead they will get 2 NKs. Everything Max has said implies that if any scum are dead at all they will be able to make 1 NK collectively. So there will be one NK tonight whether we lynch scum or not. If we lynch scum today, there will also be a NK tomorrow. If we lynch the doc today, there will be no NK tomorrow night. There would be no more NKs until we lynch another scum. Therefore, if we happen to get the right doc, we can wait to kill the other claimed doc (who is scum) until we've found his scum buddy. That way, even if we're mislynching, at least the scum is not getting NKs.

So. To clarify - the best move for today is to try to decide who is the real doc and lynch them. The Town spiritualist should still NOT claim until we have proof we have lynched the correct doc. If we lynch the correct doc, once he has confirmed that he is paying attention and will protect that night, the Town spiritualist will come forward in order to be protected for the remainder of the game.

Then if we manage to kill the right doc, tomorrow we do NOT kill the claimed doc we know is scum. We try to find the scum hidden among us and if we happen to mislynch at least scum doesn't have a NK.

We really need more participation from RandomActs and either Spambot or his replacement. It is key that we lynch the real doc tonight in order to stop mafia NKs for the time being and get protection on the spiritualist. Also, all you Townies out there need to reread the docs and vote for the one you think is most likely telling the truth.

Max: Can you please prod RandomActs? And... can we get an update on Spambot? Is he being replaced?

[Setael]

I was thinking it was day 3 so I guess you guys are right - no NK tonight unless we lynch scum. I think it would be wise to try to lynch the real doc today.

But lynching me now means the scum will be around for yet another day - and yet another NK in all likelihood.

This is only true if you are scum. I can't tell if this was a slip up or just a mistake.

[Setael]

Thanks for being active RandomActs. If you are the real doc, it is key that you are active especially if we lynch you and need you protecting. For now I will

unvote

as I would like to hear what Spambot's replacement has to say.

When scum is allowed to NK needs to be clarified.

Max: Can scum NK from now on, or only when one of them is dead but not yet in the afterlife

?

[Setael]

That was my understanding. So if we don't kill scum today there will be no NK tonight. Then if instead of killing the other claimed doc tomorrow, we wait and try to find scum, it won't be as disastrous if we mislynch because at least there will be no NK.

[Setael]

@RandomActs: You miss my point. I think we SHOULD lynch the real doc today. It is to our advantage to not lynch scum today because then they get no NK tonight. Then tomorrow I don't think we should lynch confirmed scum (the other doc). I think we should start scum hunting to try to lynch the ones we don't know about yet. That way, if we happen to mislynch at least no one will be NK'd. Then, once we've taken out the other scums, we kill Spambot's replacement (assuming RandomActs is the one we decide is the real doc, and he comes up doc).

[Setael]

We've hardly got the game in the bag. We don't even know if the cop will ever make any investigations since he didn't last night and has now disappeared.

@kilroy: if you can't play, please ask for a replacement. Your role is pretty key to us.

[Setael]

Y and kilroy: What happens if whoever we wagon is randomly the Town Spiritualist and is forced to claim? What then?

[Setael]

DG - the cop said he's back and playing now. This comment of yours pinged my scumdar...

[Setael]

I think we should try and kill the scum-doc. During the night Kilroy investigates some one and we hope he finds scum.

2 things.

1) You keep avoiding my question. What happens if the Town Spiritualist has to claim and the doc isn't able to protect?

2) Why are you so motivated to let scum NK tonight?

[Setael]

I sure wish you'd have investigated him last night. There is a CHANCE he's the spiritualist and I'm not willing to take that chance. We need to lynch our doc.

Plus tonight there will be no NK unless we lynch scum today. We need to take advantage of having no NK tonight.

[Setael]

We've been told that if the spiritualists are dead then all ties to the afterlife are cut off, so my assumption would be that no, scum will no longer be able to make NKs once both spiritualists are dead. It will essentially become a nightless game with only those who have not been lynched participating. Neutrals would probably win.

[Setael]

Welcome Claus and thanks for replacing.

What would be really helpful is if you'd claim before you read the thread. Since that's not happening I guess just post your thoughts after you read.

Basically... the town is torn on strategy. Some of us think it would be best to lynch the real doc so that they will then be able to protect the town spiritualist in the event that he is forced to claim. The other benefit to this is mafia wouldn't get a NK tonight and then tomorrow we could start scum hunting with the benefit of that if we mislynch at least there is no NK. Others think we should just kill scum.

Please tell us your opinion and vote. Feel free to ask any questions. This is a complicated set up and those of us who understand the game will clarify anything we can.

[Setael]

Ok a few things you should know:

1. We aren't allowed to no lynch. Someone must die before day's end.

2. We do not want to transport vanillas to the afterlife because then they are out of the game. As long as the spiritualists are alive, everyone in "purgatory" is still in the game and sending them to the afterlife is the equivalent of lynching them in a normal game. Therefore, the only ones we want to send to the afterlife are the scums.

3. This is a complicted game. You will want to do a full, in depth read before deciding anything or voting.

4. I think you are mafia

[Setael]

@Y: You haven't answered my question: Why do you want there to be a NK tonight and tomorrow night? If we wait to lynch the scum we KNOW about we can avoid NK's while we look for the other ones (in case we mislynch). I don't understand why you're not agreeing to that logic.

[Setael]

As has been mentioned before, that first post is ambiguous. There may be 3 scum and a scum spiritualist instead of an SK, which makes 4. Or there may be 3 scum, one of which is their spiritualist.

I'm not sure what to think about Claus. I think it's really weird that he FOS'd me twice when if he really did read the thread, he'd know that there's absolutely no way I'm scum. First, there would've been a NK the night I was lynched and second, I would not have sent kabenon to the afterlife.

Aside from that, I see his points (and Y's). I was looking at it from a different angle, but you're right that all that really matters is how many town are alive - in fact, the mod reminded us of this not long ago when he said something like "don't forget you need enough townies to tie the noose".

So... according to the way claus is thinking, if he is scum he does not want to be lynched at all costs. He would do anything to get RandomActs lynched instead if Random is the real doc. But... I think he'd have gone about it differently if he was scum. I think he could've just agreed that we want to lynch the doc and since we were all leaning that way anyway except Y who was also voting Random but because he thought he was scum, Random would've been the one lynched.

Conclusion: I think claus is the real doc. I also agree that we need to try to kill scum today.

However, I don't think today's lynch should be RandomActs and here is why. If we kill Random tonight, scum get a NK. If we don't kill Random tonight and instead target another player we think might be scum if we mislynch at least there's no NK. kilroy can investigate another player who seems scummy and we can save Random for when A) we've lynched one of the other scums so there are NK's anyway and it doesn't matter or B) kilroy has found one of the scums and there's a chance we have them all pinned down so we then lynch the one kilroy found and Random.

For awhile I've thought the scums are among death_omen, ckillor and DG who was replaced. I need to reread to decide but there isn't much time. So... I'm going to

unvote,

vote death_omen

Any thoughts?

[Setael]

I agree that we don't want to lynch any more townies. But I think we should take advantage of the possibility of no NK tonight to find the scum that we have not pin pointed yet.

Can I please get the opinion of EVERY player on this?

[Setael]

@Claus: Regardless of what you say, it makes sense to try to find the scum that is hidden among those 5 while there will be no NK if we miss rather than once we have killed a scum in which case if we mislynch there will also be a NK and we'll lose two townies rather than one.

It is unlikely that the scum spiritualist is one of the ones who claimed doc or cop. He's probably the 3rd, hidden scum. Someone among those 5 people you listed is scum. If you don't think it's D_O, who do you think it is?

[Setael]

Thanks kilroy.

I'm a little worried that RandomActs is willing to vote Death_Omen. From Claus' posts, it seems like Claus is the real doc because if he was scum he would have voted random acts because many of us thought he was the real doc and were already voting him, rather than make the game theory conclusions he did and vote Random because he thinks he's scum. If this is accurate, then Random is scum. Why would he bus a partner at this point? I guess he might do it just to get a NK tonight. Or to make us think he's the real doc. I don't know. I still think D_O is scum so I'm leaving my vote.

[Setael]

Really, if we Lynch D_O today, all we are going to get is a big TOWNIE from the mod, wether he is scum or he is town.

If it makes you feel better, I am planning on sending D_O to the afterlife as soon as it is in my power to do so.

If we don't get a nightkill tonight, it will mean little, because the scum may be refraining from NK to confuse us and get us to lynch another townie. Or because we killed a townie.

First of all, I highly doubt mafia would give up a NK. They didn't to confuse us about kabenon. Their NKs are too valuable. And... how would them refraining from making a NK be a bad thing?

If we do get a night kill, it may have been performed by DO, who we just lynched, or by one of the ghosts who are around already - we have no way to know.

It has been clearly explained exactly how long scum remain in the game once transported. According to the mod, kabenon will not be able to NK tonight.

And I'm not happy with Setael pushing this lynch, specially because before he was pushing for the Town spiritualist to be protected.

What are you going to do? Vote to lynch me? MWAHAHAHAHA! Seriously you talked me into not lynching the real doc, so don't be angry just because I don't like your plan and created a new one.

I would like to know from the people voting D_O exactly what pins him down as scummy, because everyone is saying so, but no one is bothering to put down reasons.

I have felt D_O was scum the entire game. He has never given me any reason to change my mind. Lately he has made several posts in which he obviously didn't understand the game makeup. At first I thought "It seems the scum would have a better understanding than anyone since they can talk at night, and D_O doesn't seem bright enough to successfully and believably pretend to not understand the game setup." However, after thinking about it I realized he has been pretty inactive and it's possible he didn't even show up to any night discussions mafia had and that is why he's not understanding the game. OR since a lot of us thought he was scum early on maybe during the night discussion his buddies told him to play stupid to throw us off.

So no, I'm not absolutely positive about D_O, but I still think it is a wise move to try to find the scum we don't know about yet rather than lynching RandomActs. As I've said, if we're wrong at least there's no NK. Also, it narrows down the pool kilroy has to investigate by one making him more likely of hitting scum tonight. (This will be especially helpful if there are 4 scum total, but still helpful in case we mislynch). In fact, if we don't lynch D_O, kilroy will probably have to spend his investigation on him tonight.

If we go with your plan then (assuming Random is the scum) we lynch him, he kills someone tonight and kilroy has a worse chance of hitting scum. He may even inadvertently investigate the very person mafia NK's which would really bite. We could very well be in the exact same spot we're in now but WORSE OFF because scum was able to make a NK and THEN if we mislynch tomorrow they'll be able to make ANOTHER NK. In a nutshell, the best play today is to lynch the scummiest of the unclaimeds.

kilroy, since you cannot possibly be role blocked I would like to make a request that you investigate either DG or their replacement or Y. That's my 2 cents. I'm leaving my vote on D_O and I'll try to reread him by tomorrow.

@D_O: I think it would be wise for you to let us know at this point if you are neutral. I don't think you are because you have been hiding like the scumbucket I think you are.

[Setael]

Mod: Can we please get prods on D_O, DG and RandomActs. Unless I'm wrong I think it's been awhile since any of them posted. Ironic since I think they're all scum.

[Setael]

Let's continue with the patronizing tone.

Dear DG,

If you think that "what we need is not stalling, but action" why did you not vote when starting yesterday the number of votes needed started dropping?

In fact, why have you not voted once all game?

[Setael]

I believe him. I've doubted this wagon ever since Random jumped on, and now with DG voting him as well and looking really scummy.... I'm pretty sure Claus is the real doc so I'll

Unvote; vote: RandomActs

I'd still really like to choose from among the unclaimed but I'm no longer convinced about D_O and I

really

don't want to mislynch.

[Setael]

Possibly. If he's not scum at least there'll be no NK and kilroy's investigation pool is narrowed down. Plus he might be scum. I'm definitely getting cold feet about the lynch though.

[Setael]

Sucks that kilroy wasted TWO night investigations in a row. We already knew Random was scum. We needed you to find the other one. If the town loses, I will blame kilroy's lack of helpful investigations.

[Setael]

kilroy oh kilroy... PLEASE tell me you found scum last night.

[Setael]

Spambot was replaced by Claus.

There are 4 players alive, one of which is mafia.

Wait to vote until we hear from kilroy. Claus is confirmed townie so we have to choose who is scummiest between ckillor, Draux and DG. kilroy can provide us either another confirmed townie or the scum's name.

*crosses fingers*

Max: Considering the short deadline, can you please prod kilroy?

[Setael]

Important family matters don't change that this game you've been the worst cop ever. I'll try not to blame you, especially since I may have investigated Y if the choice had been up to me, but the first 2 nights are tough to stomach. Meh.

I agree with Claus - since we're at lylo, it would be wise for the town spiritualist to claim.

[Setael]

ckillor, would you care to explain how you knew it was draux that would counterclaim? If you "knew draux was scum" why haven't you mentioned this before now?

P.S. I believe Draux is the real town spiritualist and ckillor is scum.

[Setael]

I just don't understand how ckillor knew it would be Draux counterclaiming and not DG. Reeks of mafia-style insider info.

I don't understand how Setael and Y can be so 100% sure that RA was scum. That doesn't make much sense to me.

I do agree that N1 was a disaster with a non-investigation, so you won't hear me whining about that.

But N2's investigation was not unhelpful, especially for those of us who are not scum, and wouldn't really know for sure of someone's alignment.

This post is really fishy to me. After the confirmed cop confirms that RA is scum, DG is still doubting it. Was he trying to prevent a RA lynch? Is it possible there are 2 scums left? (DG and ckillor)

[Setael]

i was hopeing for alot more stuff to jump out as saying im scum!!

Wow. That's a pretty big slip.

1) I see no motivation for Draux to counterclaim you if he is mafia. He would know that even with your claim (assuming it was true), we'd have to choose between him and DG and since there's been a LOT more suspicion on DG than on Draux, I see no reason Draux would have made himself so vulnerable.

2) I find it hard to believe that you forgot DG was in the game, since you had just listed the player list. However, you were confused when you listed the player list so I can probably buy that. I actually think it much more likely that you, as scum, would claim town spiritualist if you thought that you and Draux were the only two left. You would want to claim it before he did in order to make him look like the counterclaimer, just like you did.

I'm convinced that ckillor is scum. We don't have enough time to draw this out anyway.

vote: ckillor

Max: The VC is off. You have ckillor voting himself, when it is Draux that is voting him. Also, we may need some prods on ghosts in order to get 6 votes. Can you please prod anyone who hasn't posted yet since daybreak who is still able to vote? Thanks!

[Setael]

uh no, DG. ckillor did not counterclaim cop.

This will be really unfortunate if the town loses just because ckillor's claim was so odd. I'm keeping my vote on him just because I see no reason for Draux to counterclaim as scum.

[Setael]

unvote

I'm torn. I really can't see Draux as scum, but ckillor's last few posts have felt so town. I need to find time to do a reread...

[Setael]

Not necessarily.... not if the 4th scum can't make night kills.

And... why do you want RA to shut up? I'd prefer he talk and maybe give us a clue what to do here.

I'm really torn. Draux if you're scum, you did a really good job acting townie d1. We almost lynched you to be the transporter.

We only have a couple days. Can we get a few more peoples' insight into whether Draux or ckillor is the scum?

[Setael]

So we'd have to lynch Claus and hope that he protects whoever is NK'd. We'd get another investigation for tomorrow but we'd only have a 1/3 chance he'd protect the right person.

Might be a good option, since I could see either Draux or ckillor as scum and really don't know which it is. I'm leaning toward Draux. I was thinking it wouldn't make sense for DrauxScum to counterclaim, but if he didn't we'd have had a confirmed townie and would've only had to choose between two players rather than three so it actually makes sense for DrauxScum to counterclaim.

[Setael]

That makes no sense. If someone counterclaims your role, how is your vote on them only OMGUS?

[Setael]

I'm actually leaning toward Draux, just because ckillor and death_omen's play both seemed so scummy and d_o turned up town. I could see one of the scum early on suggesting scum be lynched d1 since we really wouldn't expect scum to do that (nor did we think Draux was scummy for it).

The scum spiritualist would've wanted to act as townie as possible (like Draux's play) rather than kind of sloppy scum which is what ckillor felt like all game.

I hate being the deciding vote. I'm really not very good at scum hunting of late. Hopefully other players will weigh in before deadline. In fact, it will be interesting to see what RandomActs does...

vote: Draux

[Setael]

Should've known DG was neutral. That explains why he's been so unhelpful all game.

Yeah, I'm happy with my Draux vote.

[Setael]

I think claus pulled it around for you with post 674. Thanks for rereading claus - I had no time to and you found some really convincing points. Your first post coming into the game made it really obvious you were the real doc, too. If Spambot (or kilroy) had posted like that it would've been much easier to tell they were our real power role.

I agree that this game was hard for scum to win - especially since we didn't ever get a helpful investigation. It would've been different if draux had been the transporter. You'd have had a NK every night and no one could've stopped it. I think that would've been easy to pull off (I definitely would've voted Draux as transporter) but with the other 2 having counter claimed, I can see why you didn't want to do that.

[Setael]

Good set up. I thought it was fun. I'm actually glad you gave us that last sentence, because the rest of that post was kind of confusing.

Yay town!

[Setael]

The "optimal town play" assumes you could find the scum spiritualist right away.

MOD EDIT: True however you did rattle it down to a maximum of 7 people if neutral claimed 6 so it would have knocked them down quite quickly