Mini 1766: SCP Foundation Mafia (GAME OVER)
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Dream Man Goon
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The current pages suggest to me that iraonavp is the best place for my vote. I follow Alchemist21's arguments and am inclined to agree with them.
Eagle, I have noticed your post 557. Would you mind explaining why you think that iraonavp is town? I'd like to understand how you can tolerate his protests to your Raskolnikov arguments. Have you ever considered that they're scum together?-
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Dream Man
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 567, Alchemist21 wrote:I don't really buy it being a reaction test, and I've seen scum try to lie about their meta knowledge of someone before.
Indeed, your argument is quite convincing. Town do sometimes mistake their meta knowledge, but it appears that in this case, Raskol seems to be lying for scum-motivated purposes.
In post 589, iraonavp wrote:I'll say that I'm pretty sure you replaced into a scum-aligned slot to start with.
Are you sure about that? May I ask, then, why your vote has never been on Holly and Sugar? I'm trying to search for it, but do pardon me if I have missed evidence of your suspicions towards my slot.
In post 589, iraonavp wrote:Do you agree with Extrapolated Eagle, and think that Raskolnikov is scum-aligned?
Yes, I do. Would you like to provide arguments to debunk or rebut those made by Alchemist or Eagle?
That escalated quickly. I understand that a completely unknown player replacing in, and immediately putting pressure may be unnerving and unsettling, but do be aware that your hurried and panicked reaction may lead some negative impressions of you.
In post 578, AristoCow wrote:I honestly considered replacing out, as I have been useless, but I am going to give this a final push and get set here. If I do not, then I will replace out by the night phase.
Good day to you Aristophanes,
Pardon me for being blunt here, but my advice is for you to focus on your real life commitments. Some players might be waiting for a chance to replace into the game.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 600, shos wrote:Oh my gawd,
Dream guy are you British?
I don't like his nonchalante talk in response to the wagon on him. It makes me think he's scum, it feels fake as hell
I don't think you should be afraid of the British, they as a whole are a nice bunch of people. I certainly hope that you do not share the same sentiments towards our race, as you do, towards, say, Palestinians.
I do, however, request that you check your facts; at the point of your post, there appeared to me no "wagon" on me, sans a single vote by iraon, made in an ostensibly OMGUS fashion. You may have mistakenly believed that a wagon had had formed on myself, but if you pay closer attention, you'll realise that no such incident had occurred, and that my "nonchalante talk" would be perfectly warranted under such a situation.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 604, iraonavp wrote:How do you expect me to answer this?
I expect you to defend your statement -- that you had "surely" thought that I replaced into a scum-aligned slot, for, if you indeed did have such a sentiment, you would have shown some form of suspicion towards my predecessor, Holly and Sugar. I cannot find any evidence of your doing so, and this presents a contradiction: Did you or did you not suspect that I replaced into a scum-aligned slot?
If you are unable to defend your claim, then I'm afraid that makes you guilty of lying, for all intents and purposes that is detrimental to the town, in addition to the other infractions that the other players out. It certainly does not work in your favour.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 622, Elsa and Anna wrote:
iraonavp (4): Alchemist21, Klingoncelt, A Real Scourge, Dream Man
Dream Man (3): iraonavp, shos, Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov (2): kelbris, Extrapolated Eagle
Willing to take bets that all 3 of these wagons are on town.
I'm not quite sure about the odds of that happening, but I'll be willing to accept your bet, with a counterbet that states the conditions: iraonavp and Raskol, at least one, if not both, are scum.-
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In post 642, shos wrote:Anyone niticed how klingon <3 only talks about stuff involving her?
VOTE: klingon
Lets make this happen
~
I dont like kelbris, and I also dont like how the dreamman wagon came up. I added a pressure vote, then like 2(3?) more votes came reasoningless. I doubt there are so many people trying out pressure votes like I do
It would be appreciated if you would not place your vote on a vanity wagon with less than twenty-four hours remaining on the deadline. I would like to draw your attention to kelbris's extremely horrible vote -- did that not catch your attention? Look at his reasoning that accompanied his vote. What is stopping you from placing a vote on kelbris, given that he currently stands at 3 votes and is the second largest wagon as of yet?-
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In post 646, Dream Man wrote:If you are unable to defend your claim, then I'm afraid that makes you guilty of lying, for all intents and purposes that is detrimental to the town, in addition to the other infractions that the other players out. It certainly does not work in your favour.
*pointed out
My sincerest apologies for this oversight.-
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Dream Man Goon
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Analysing the kills, it appears that Alchemist21 did not use his action the last night... not only because he was roleblocked, which I had pertinently forgotten, but also if he did use his equivalent of a Lightning Rod, he would have been the only one dead.
kelbris, it appears, had been a commendable vigilante kill. What with that foul-tasting vote yesterday, it came as no surprise that his alignment is what it is. Great job, masked warrior!
Snowman, however, seems to have become a treestump. There's nothing much to it.-
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Dream Man Goon
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Given that kelbris is indeed a member of the mafia, I would suppose that Raskol's attitude towards him wouldn't be too much of an indication of partnership.
VOTE: Elsa and Anna
Is it too late to withdraw my bet? I concede that it is. I, however, place some suspicion on the house for such a lofty wager.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 695, MarioManiac4 wrote:In post 289, shos wrote:PAGE WUN
Oh hey! E&A again! fuck! <3
um, so, I don't have a clue about this setup's flavor, but it sure sounds like it's going to be hard on scum to make a good fakeclaim
anyone familiar with this?
also if that mason claim is real I'ma cut my dick off
This is ten thousand red flags.
He looks at the flavour and he thinks about fakeclaiming? Nah. I don't like that sht.
Interesting.
To answer the question, shos, this setup's flavor is very easy for scum to create a fakeclaim for.-
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In post 725, MarioManiac4 wrote:In post 721, shos wrote:Wheeee everyone wagon hopping on me
That actually didnt happen in a long while
Tge three kills make me wonder if this could be multiball? Snarky js indeed most likely a vig kill, no sane scum would waste bullets there.
EAs heavy crumbing and implies a killing role, and mario, you really cant blame me for thinking it is a vig. But, considering the snarky death, this might be a scum crosskill.
Snarky was 99.9% a vig kill. [1] E+A has a point. The scum wincon isnt really friendly to anything but a single scum faction. Until massclaim I'm going to trust E+A's non-vig killing role claim.
[1]- Snarky, it's very likely a vig killed you and that's because you don't lie as town unless you don't think anything can go majorly wrong? To a vigilante, you were the perfect kill, because if you were scum, then you would die. If you were town, nothing would happen.
I do not believe that this deduction is quite right. As much as I do not believe that there are two vigilantes in the game, there are many possibilities that may have inflicted the three deaths, for example, Snarky being a self-destructing Treestump: note how his Role PM has not been revealed yet. There is also a possibility that Elsa and Anna also contain a form of Paranoid-Gun-Owner-isque invulnerability, which explains why she was rather insistent for beeboy and Snarky to visit her.-
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In post 735, Klingoncelt wrote:Raskolnikov and Beeboy have proven to be Scum as well, by virtue of their naked votes.
Hello Klingoncelt. I see your points with regard to Elsa and Anna, and your allegations that they are lying.
Would you like to discuss how Raskolnikov and Beeboy are scum? I certainly do not see them both being scum with kelbris, given how they had voted for him yesterday.
beeboy's 620:
Raskol's 637:
Do naked votes necessarily mean that someone is scum? Kelbris made this vote yesterday, and it does not look very naked:
In post 636, kelbris wrote:Sorry about being AFK, things have been a bit hectic for me the past few days. With deadline running so close, I am inclined to join the Dream Man wagon, surprisingly, his name is fitting since there is an SCP called the Dream Man, who knows? Maybe the SCP will match the name, lol.
VOTE: Dream Man
Looking forward to hearing you from you soon,
Dream Man-
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Dream Man Goon
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The scum as a collective would have been able to infer such an occurrence, if it is the case, because they had sent kelbris to target you. Looking at the crumbs planted in your hydra's ISO, as suggested by Elsa, it would not have been a leap for the collective scum to draw such a conclusion. I would like to assume that the scum, as a collective, have at least a modicum of intelligence, and, if your invulnerability is non-exclusive, as I suspect, then I might have saved a doctor or a watcher's life.-
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In post 800, Klingoncelt wrote:In post 780, Dream Man wrote:In post 735, Klingoncelt wrote:Raskolnikov and Beeboy have proven to be Scum as well, by virtue of their naked votes.
Hello Klingoncelt. I see your points with regard to Elsa and Anna, and your allegations that they are lying.
Would you like to discuss how Raskolnikov and Beeboy are scum? I certainly do not see them both being scum with kelbris, given how they had voted for him yesterday.
Do naked votes necessarily mean that someone is scum?
Looking forward to hearing you from you soon,
Dream Man
I've been getting bad vibes from Raskolnikov all along. His naked vote on me in post 373, and again a mention of me with no mention of a case in post 415 didn't exactly warm me to him.
Beeboy does basically the same thing, naked vote with no case, posts 729 and 733.
That might be so, but could it be possible that their naked votes are representative of their playstyle, rather than of their alignment? They seem to have voted for kelbris, who has flipped scum, in a largely similar manner, and it would not be too detached from reality to imagine them making their votes on a whimsy with the aid of a random number generator.
Suppose town is exclusively wagoning you, then, who do you think is scum?-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 805, Klingoncelt wrote:In post 788, beeboy wrote:i want to see klingon claim o.o
I am Town.
I have a 2-shot alignment-investigate, however my results go to a random player.
I investigated Alch last night. Lot of good that did.
May I ask the rationale for your choosing to investigate Alchemist last night? I hold the view that Alchemist was transparently town in this game, and I wonder why you decided that his alignment was uncertain enough for you to spend an investigate on, instead of a more ambiguous slot, such as AristoCow or Raskol.-
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In post 836, Elsa and Anna wrote:In post 823, RadiantCowbells wrote:If that role is confirmed to exist I think that makes Klingon near 100% town.
I doubt that 2 scum would have the same mechanics.
UNVOTE:
Anyone?
picking this up
but eww ?
~Elsa
I believe Klingoncelt.
Klingoncelt has managed to produce tangible content, that, she would be incapable of generating if she were scum in such a case.
Have you considered looking at other players, such as MarioManiac?-
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In post 828, Klingoncelt wrote:
I have trouble reading both Shos and Alch. I think they're the most experienced, if they're both Town, they'd be a perfect base for the Townbloc.
Only Alch is dead now and I'm pretty sure Shos is Scum.
There is a flaw in your strategy. Say, given the situation that Shos and Alchemist are indeed both Town. Although they'd be a perfect base for the townbloc, given your perceptions of their experience levels, they'd also be prima facie nightkills -- ruining your strategy entirely. I suggest that you adapt a different strategy, perhaps using the investigate on a more ambiguous player?-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 827, Klingoncelt wrote:I do not for one second think that this is a Town-based wagon.
Alright then. Let us assume for a moment that the wagon on yourself is not Town-based. Let us further assume three scum in this game, as what would be average for a thirteen-player game.
This would suggest two remaining scum alive at this point. Do you, then posit, that there is one or two scum on your wagon?
These are the names of the players that have been on your wagon:
Elsa and Anna, shos, Raskolnikov, beeboy
If, two scum, then who are they?
If, one scum, then who is the scum that is off the wagon?
Looking forward to your reply,
Dream Man-
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In post 844, Elsa and Anna wrote:In post 843, Dream Man wrote:We should simply not lynch her.
oh?
why you sure she is town?
As I've mentioned, I believe that her reaction to all of this is town. She's producing content, which she would have been unable to do, if she were scum. There's also the additional side point that RadiantCowbells raised with regard to her role, but I only consider that to a lesser extent.
Would you consider other players of interest, rather than focusing on only one player, for, what I can gather, was only guilty of rallying players to consolidate on three major wagons less than twenty-four hours before deadline?-
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In post 846, Elsa and Anna wrote:I can w8 another day. she might give a clue about her scum partner this way.
~Elsa
Does RadiantCowbells have a lead on who else could be scum?
I'd like to draw to his attention three players: Raskol, MarioManiac, and beeboy.-
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In post 862, Klingoncelt wrote:If I knew who the Scums were they'd be lynched by now.
E&A's horrific one-vote-equals-a-wagon argument was scummy. Raskolnikov and Beeboy both dropped naked votes on me and refused to even try to make a case. Shos says Eagle proves he's Town, I didn't see that, so I have to re-read.
Did I mention I check alignment? There's almost certainly a 3rd Party in the game.
Do you believe thatallthe players voting you are scum? If there are scum off your wagon, who could they be?
I'm interested to know who you deduce are scum, and appreciate it if you tried to identify potential candidates. Even if I concede your point that your wagon may not be "Town-based", you are currently not giving us very much to work with.
It would be remarkable if you could rank your four choices for scum in some order, so that we can understand the intensity of where you stand on those players.-
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In post 865, A Real Scourge wrote:i'm really sorry about my lack of activity, guys! it's outside stuff. i'm normally not like this.
shos' proof of being town is paper thin, tbh. but i won't press it any more. i don't know if Eagle's reasons are as good as he thinks.
i think Eagle's town (probably..?), it's just shos i'm worried about.
and Mario replaced AristoCow, right? it's weird because i'd be totally happy with the Mario wagon except he's voting shos. and your own scumpartner isn't an ideal counterwagon! but i could be wrong on one or the other, and since it doesn't look like we can lynch shos today, i'm good with the Mario wagon from what i've seen of his ISO. (not that it's a lot)
i'll read up properly tomorrow. Klingon, you're voting Elsa and Anna. do you think Mario is town? what about Eagle?
I find this post highly questionable. Despite its length, it does not appear to consist of much substance.
A Real Scourge, I suggest that you focus on your real-life commitments instead of trying to force out a post, and thereby wasting your time. If your commitments are truly preventing you from enjoying the game, as AristoCow was, perhaps another player might hold greater enthusiasm in your slot for the game.-
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In post 852, MarioManiac4 wrote:Until Extrapolated Eagle elaborates on the dog noises I'm happy enough with voting shos.
Why are you happy with parking your vote on a player indefinitely?-
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In post 883, MarioManiac4 wrote:Ummm... because I think they're scum?
Well, then, you shall have to make do with my disbelief, for, I do not for one moment even think that you are telling the truth here.-
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In post 873, Klingoncelt wrote:I was pretty sure that Aristocow were Scum. To a point Mario has been redeeming the slot, but Mario's fixation on Shos has me wondering.
If I may, I would ask how you arrived at these conclusions, for, I am in staunch disagreement with them, particularly the point where "Mario has been redeeming the slot".-
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In post 886, shos wrote:To those who know the flavor, do you think it is easy to forge a fakeclaim in this game? do you believe Klingon's claim?
Please refer to this post:
In post 778, Dream Man wrote:In post 289, shos wrote:PAGE WUN
Oh hey! E&A again! fuck! <3
um, so, I don't have a clue about this setup's flavor, but it sure sounds like it's going to be hard on scum to
Interesting.
To answer the question, shos, this setup's flavor is very easy for scum to create a fakeclaim for.
I, however, do believe Klingon's claim.-
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In post 895, A Real Scourge wrote:though Dream man still needs to reply, because i think he was out of line when he told me i should replace out.
My sincerest apologies for the inconsiderate remark. I was in error, for I had interpreted your message as being one that was affected by your real life commitments. Certainly, I had given you the benefit of the doubt, for otherwise under normal circumstances that very same post would warrant a vote by itself -- immediately.
In post 865, A Real Scourge wrote:i'm really sorry about my lack of activity, guys! it's outside stuff. i'm normally not like this.
shos' proof of being town is paper thin, tbh. but i won't press it any more. i don't know if Eagle's reasons are as good as he thinks.
i think Eagle's town (probably..?), it's just shos i'm worried about.
and Mario replaced AristoCow, right? it's weird because i'd be totally happy with the Mario wagon except he's voting shos. and your own scumpartner isn't an ideal counterwagon! but i could be wrong on one or the other, and since it doesn't look like we can lynch shos today, i'm good with the Mario wagon from what i've seen of his ISO. (not that it's a lot)
i'll read up properly tomorrow. Klingon, you're voting Elsa and Anna. do you think Mario is town? what about Eagle?
"i'm really sorry about my lack of activity, guys! it's outside stuff. i'm normally not like this." - This suggests a sense of self-consciousness, which is untoward, for the entire game's activity levels has not been stellar as a whole. It is a fact that scum trend towards being more self-conscious than town, because of their mission to avoid suspicion entirely, and it appears that this sentence demonstrates that very same heightened self-consciousness that would have been inappropriate given the circumstances.
"shos' proof of being town is paper thin, tbh. but i won't press it any more. i don't know if Eagle's reasons are as good as he thinks." - This sentence appears to avoid giving a stance on shos himself, appearing to put suspicion on shos while being afraid to "press any more", almost as if having the knowledge of shos's alignment while taking advantage of his awkward position. This, of course, opens up an avenue for yourself to attack shos at a later point, while not outright calling him scum in this very same post.
"i think Eagle's town (probably..?), it's just shos i'm worried about." - This provides easy reads, but it is impossible to follow the train of thought that led to these conclusions. Little mention of either Eagle or shos (and their corresponding levels of town-ness) was made prior to this, giving the impression that these reads were formed on-the-go and that they might have been engineered to capitalize and take advantage of the current gamestate.
"and Mario replaced AristoCow, right?" - This is non content, for the question could easily be answered by a simple fact-check.
"it's weird because i'd be totally happy with the Mario wagon except he's voting shos." - Similar to the already-weak point against shos, the stance here appears to put suspicion on Mario and be ready to vote him, while giving a reason to backtrack if necessary. This parallels the preceding statement about shos, where Scourge takes advantage of Mario's vulnerable position while seeming to have the knowledge that Mario is town.
"and your own scumpartner isn't an ideal counterwagon! but i could be wrong on one or the other, and since it doesn't look like we can lynch shos today, i'm good with the Mario wagon from what i've seen of his ISO. (not that it's a lot)" - This gives justification to put Scourge at a position to vote either Mario or shos, his "scumreads", while also providing evidently poor counterarguments to redress himself should either lynch flip town. To recap, Scourge is avoiding outright scumreading shos for the dog-noises and Eagle's confirmation, in the same post denouncing them, while his reasons for avoiding Mario are pre-flip associations based on the already-slippery reasoning for scumreading shos. This looks like an advantageous position that scum would take.
"i'll read up properly tomorrow. Klingon, you're voting Elsa and Anna. do you think Mario is town? what about Eagle?" - And asking questions is not content.
Therefore, as we can conclude that Scourge's questionable post was not made under the duress of his real-life commitments, and that a deeper analysis of Scourge's post further highlights the underlying motivations that tend to benefit scum moreso than town,
VOTE: A Real Scourge-
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Considering Scourge's actions in context, further posts seem only to be fixated on self-preservation, and attacking shos - taking advantage of shos's awkward, yet not necessarily scum-motivated position. Capitalizing on the polarities between the shos and the MarioManiac wagon, Scourge builds himself up to vote one or the other should time run out, and is prepared to recover if either flip town.
My vote is warranted, and I posit that if Scourge flips scum, apart from the fact that there would only be one mafia remaining, shos and Mario would be likely town through associative interactions.-
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With regard to a player confirming Klingon's role, I think that the whole affair itself is foolish. Given that Klingon inspected a dead player, Alchemist, his alignment is already known to all. Therefore, only three possible events can happen:
1) Town confirms Klingon's message
2) Scum confirms Klingon's message
3) Scum does not confirm Klingon's message.
In all three cases, none of them actually give us any more insight to Klingon's alignment, only the fact that it exists, although I would believe that Klingon, if scum, would not attempt to fakeclaim a provable role. It would also be indistinguishable if town or scum confirmed Klingon's message, for Alchemist's alignment is already public knowledge.
There is no need for whoever received Klingon's message to claim it, and it doesn't make a difference else.-
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In post 956, Klingoncelt wrote:In post 953, Dream Man wrote:In fact, nobody confirming Klingon's message, ironically, points further toward Klingon being town, for, it suggests that scum had received the message, and that Klingon is not on their side.
The alignment of the person receiving the message wasn't mentioned in my PM, but would the Mod giving it to a Scum be a good idea?
If your role PM mentioned that the person receiving the message was randomized, then every player has an equal chance of receiving the message. Scum can possibly receive it.
If your role PM suggests that another player with a parallel role to yours receives a message, then either that player replaced out without checking his messages, or does not want to claim and out himself, or you got roleblocked.-
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Eagle, pardon me if I am interrupting the conversation between you and Scourge, but may I interject with my commentary?
I do not seem to be able to follow your line of discussion. It is indeed true that Klingon has a tendency to misrepresent others and utilise the strategy of OMGUS to an unacceptable extent as scum, as evidenced from her past games. However, I do not see such behaviour being the case in this game. So far, I have been able to verify all her accusations and points, which should be indicative of town behaviour.
Looking forward to your views on this,
Dream Man-
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What a pleasant surprise. In the interests of time, I seek your understanding if I do not provide a equivalently detailed commentary on your thesis. I do, however, agree with most of the ideas in general.
However, it is important to take note of one point, and that is the identity of the replacements.
In post 1012, Raskolnikov wrote:aristo(now dream)
It would be prudent to keep in mind that:
Mariomaniac replaced AristoCow.
Myself replaced Holly and Sugar
jmo replaced beeboy.
I agree with your assertion that Eagle, would be more likely to be scum if given a choice between Eagle and shos, for, the latter constantly seeks confirmation but the former, noticeably, is reluctant to give it, or to reciprocate in a similar manner.-
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I, however, am worried about the speed at which you give jmo a free pass, for, despite my previous statements, jmo still remains a potential suspect.
Despite correctly identifying that jmo had replaced beeboy, there still remains this issue:
In post 1012, Raskolnikov wrote:I don't have my replacements mixed up
Perhaps, given that the issue continues to exist, this could have affected your reads on a holistic level? Certainly a matter worth thinking about.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 1015, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:Rask your reads are literally the opposite of mine.
So. I wanted to hold off on this, but I think it's come to it.
Who do you plan to visit tonight?
Eagle, for the pleasure of the rest of us, could you elaborate on your reads, and how they are different from those of Rask?
Insofar I have only managed to identify your now-defunct scumread on Klingon, for what seems to be incorrect reasons, and a mild scumread on Scourge hundreds of posts ago, which may have been dated, and even if not so, does not contradict those of Rask's.
Looking forward to your reply,
Dream Man-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 1019, Raskolnikov wrote:That was a typo, I didn't actually have the wrong idea this time. I would have brought up aristo if I thought he was your predecessor since I didn't like him at all, but holly I felt wasn't worth mentioning.
MarioManiac had replaced Aristo, and MarioManiac's lackadaisical play, which I had later excused him for as he seemed to have a certain track record of doing so, were the two reasons why there was a wagon on him earlier. However, with the realisation that Scourge could be scum playing on this conflict, by association Mario would be town if Scourge indeed flips scum.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 1022, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:In post 1016, Dream Man wrote:What a pleasant surprise. In the interests of time, I seek your understanding if I do not provide a equivalently detailed commentary on your thesis. I do, however, agree with most of the ideas in general.
However, it is important to take note of one point, and that is the identity of the replacements.
In post 1012, Raskolnikov wrote:aristo(now dream)
It would be prudent to keep in mind that:
Mariomaniac replaced AristoCow.
Myself replaced Holly and Sugar
jmo replaced beeboy.
I agree with your assertion that Eagle, would be more likely to be scum if given a choice between Eagle and shos, for, the latter constantly seeks confirmation but the former, noticeably, is reluctant to give it, or to reciprocate in a similar manner.
I've already shared everything as far as shos and the pm is concerned.
I'm not interested in the contents of shos and his PM, unlike some others. I'm observing how you are put in a position of higher power than shos, being able to confirm or deny his towniness, yet also in less power being tied by an outside-game-influence in the form of 'friendship'.-
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Dream Man Goon
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I don't think that you're scum, Eagle. What I merely posit is that, given the fact that there is one scum between shos and yourself in this game, where I had to make a choice, I would immediately pick you for scum rather than shos. This however, is not currently significant in the context of this game.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 820, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:Scourge is asking all the wrong questions and it's pinging me.
Would you like to follow up on the contents of shos pinging you, then?-
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Dream Man Goon
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 1027, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:In post 1024, Dream Man wrote:In post 1022, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:In post 1016, Dream Man wrote:What a pleasant surprise. In the interests of time, I seek your understanding if I do not provide a equivalently detailed commentary on your thesis. I do, however, agree with most of the ideas in general.
However, it is important to take note of one point, and that is the identity of the replacements.
In post 1012, Raskolnikov wrote:aristo(now dream)
It would be prudent to keep in mind that:
Mariomaniac replaced AristoCow.
Myself replaced Holly and Sugar
jmo replaced beeboy.
I agree with your assertion that Eagle, would be more likely to be scum if given a choice between Eagle and shos, for, the latter constantly seeks confirmation but the former, noticeably, is reluctant to give it, or to reciprocate in a similar manner.
I've already shared everything as far as shos and the pm is concerned.
I'm not interested in the contents of shos and his PM, unlike some others. I'm observing how you are put in a position of higher power than shos, being able to confirm or deny his towniness, yet also in less power being tied by an outside-game-influence in the form of 'friendship'.
Elaborate
There are four scenarios that can happen with regard to the current scenario.
Shos is town and you are town.
Shos is scum and you are town.
Shos is town and you are scum.
Shos is scum and you are scum.
In such a case, shos being scum, regardless of your alignment, would indicate a markedly abnormal level of intelligence on your part. If you are town in such a case, you would have misunderstood a tell from shos, which would be rather foolish. Otherwise, such an elaborate gambit would require a lot of wit and gut.
It is, therefore, more likely to infer that shos is town from such a scenario. Unfortunately, this does not give us any clue as to what your alignment can be. Given that shos is town, you are obligated to confirm him as such regardless of your alignment -- morally obligated if you are town, and threatened by consequences if you are scum.
Therefore, from such a scenario, shos is more likely to be town, but your alignment is as ambiguous as what it would be if such a confirmation scenario had not happened. It stands to reason that I would townread shos over yourself visibly.-
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In post 1038, shos wrote:we can help Klingon choose, or at least discuss this.
So I think we can just take both leading wagons, lynch one and have Klingon investigate the other (if she agrees).
This is a foolish idea for reasons that I have discussed earlier.-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 1038, shos wrote:I was sort of waiting for people to ask so that I recognize those who ask as town, but nobody did, so I'll just expose it - has nobody noticed that my superscumread of Klingon suddenly turned into a supertownread? anyone at all?
Perhaps you were the first to be enlightened by my arguments for Klingon-town? *chuckle*
There wasn't much to ask about, in any case.-
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In post 1041, A Real Scourge wrote:i love Dream Man's posts.
Haha, thank you. I love my posts too.
Anna, although I agree with your suspicions on the point against the beeboy slot, I do disagree with your former statement. I've explained why I dislike Scourge's posts (the content, not the tone, of course), and the fact that Scourge uses a tone almost carefree and playing this like a social game should not detract from the pernicious content of his vocalisations.-
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Dream Man Goon
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Interesting developments. I will first comment on the post that Scourge had kindly dedicated her time to write, before examining the current situation.
"like, one of his points was that i was asking a question about a replacement instead of checking it for myself, which is laziness, not alignment indicative at all, and the fact that he treated it as such hasn't been addressed." - Your claim earlier was that the post in question was mostly content, with the exception of the apology for your inactivity. Clearly, "laziness" is not equivalent to "content", disproving your earlier claim, and rendering my line of argument valid.
"i've been thinking about it, and Dream Man is either scum, or just really not self-aware." - I believe that it is inappropriate for you to remark that I am "not self-aware", for, I believe, my arguments remain valid against you.
"Dream, for someone who fluffs up his posts all the time, i think it's insane that you'd call my posts fluffy, contentless, or anything of the sort. i mean, damn, in 1020 you sing off to Eagle like you're writing a letter!" - You may have been mistaken; it would be appropriate for you to quote where I have called your posts "fluffy", for in no manner have I used such a word. Furthermore, I don't believe that I have accused your posts of being "contentless" either, rather, I was of the belief that the content that you were producing could have been scum-motivated, to the detriment of the town. My issue with your line of play was, in fact, the unusual fixation with regard to shos -- to the extent of which an uninformed member of the common town would not have.
With regard to the second post, I only have this to say:
"you keep framing me as 'taking advantage of the gamestate', such as with the situation with shos and Mario, but you fail to consider my position. " - I apologise for failing to consider your position, for, given the claim that you had made later, it had explained your unnatural fixation on shos. However, you must forgive me, as it would have been difficult to imagine that you would have some sort of semi-incriminating evidence against shos -- one that was not definite enough to demand a direct lynch against shos, that warranted your questioning which what could be interpreted as weasely play.
"if i had been an active participant in the discussion, capable of changing the flow of the game, then i might've tried it, but no one was in a position to have to listen to me. i can't pull the strings from the shadows when i'm not even here." - You are a very large presence in the game, second in post count only to Elsa and Anna. I would hardly say that you were unable to pull the strings from the shadows when you're "not even here".
Spoiler: Not game related-
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Dream Man Goon
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In post 1073, A Real Scourge wrote:essentially, i'm a really vague flavour cop. now, my role is pretty useless unless there are fakeclaims, but there are a lot of pretty weird roles in this game so i'm not taking it to mean there is a 100% chance of there being fakeclaims. especially with how fluid the flavour can be for powers.
i'm the WaffleMaster 3000, SCP 1208. every night i can target a player and make a waffle out of them.
i targeted shos last night, and then after reading on all the pm stuff between him and Eagle, was pretty confused because the waffle i made (which shares the traits of the SCP i made a waffle out of) doesn't fit with dogs, puppies, or any kind of canines.
i made a papery-waffle. i'd bet it tastes awful.
i figure if i couldn't find an SCP that fits, shos probably can't either, so either he'll tell the truth and i just missed it in my search, or something screwy is up.
This is a vital development that helps to answer the many questions that I have had with regard to Scourge's play. With the knowledge that Scourge has what would be a semi-incriminating result against shos, it would explain her constant fixation against shos, which would not have been typical for an uninformed town player.
I, too, am unable to think of an SCP that would reconcile the two situations, one made out of "paper" and a dog that can go "Woof". An extensive search of the SCP database has proved inconclusive.
It is imperative that shos clarifies this discrepancy.
In order to give him time to explain himself, I will first:
VOTE: jmo-
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Dream Man Goon
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SCP-1783. The cardboard puppy, that is benign under normal circumstances.
Until it detects a human with a B-type blood antigen, going into a frothing rage and killing everything in its path. Upon biting a human, transmogrifies them into a cardboard cutout.
Also, that is a very unnerving file photograph.Last edited by Davsto on Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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