Mini 489: Short and Sweet Mafia - Game Over

[Rishi]

Hey folks. Sorry I haven't posted in this thread yet. I was at Gen Con when the game started and had very limited Internet access. Also, I didn't have much to say and didn't want to waste a post without having anything of substance.

First of all, in the other games that I've been in with Guardian, he uses the "assume I'm town" defense. And, in both those games, he ended up being pro-town. I still don't like his strategy, but I'll take what he says at face value for now. I already made the mistake before.

I think trumpezia seems to be a fairly good player for a n00b. Probably someone's alt?

I also want to look at why LoudMoudLee was killed in Night One. I don't really know the relationship between people on this site. It does not seem like a random kill to me, and so I would want to know who would have motivation to kill him. Anyone who has a better handle on the friendships on this site want to comment? I'll state I've never played in a game with LML.

[Rishi]

Sure... I'll respond to the question. The only way I would think that LoudMouthLee's death is purely random is if all the members of the Mafia were completely unfamiliar with all the rest of the players. I find that highly unlikely.

If I were Mafia and got to kill someone on the first night, with absolutely nothing in the game thread to base my decision on, I would base my decision on previous games I have had with the other players. I would probably want to get rid of someone I knew rather than a stranger, because you have no idea how that stranger is going to play the game. I just always assume that Mafia kills have SOME motivation behind them.

So that's all I meant. Take it for what you will.

[Rishi]

Well, it seems that CrashTextDummie is asking me to take sides in this little debate between him and Sarcastro. To me, CrashTextDummie's arguments make a lot more sense. It seems that Sarcastro is using a lot of words to not say much. Speaking as someone who sometimes gets long-winded, I know that typing a lot for me means one of two things: 1) I feel very strongly about what I say. or 2) I am trying to cover something up. I can't tell what Sarcastro is doing right now.

One thing I must say is that I don't like Sarcastro's tone at all. It seems too easy for him to say something that gets misconstrued and then say, "Jesus, I was kidding! What kind of friggin' moron are you?" If I had to vote right now, I would vote for Sarcastro.

I agree with CTD that Sarcastro is NOT being detached and rational. He is definitely using emotional appeal to his advantage. When I first read his posts, I thought, "Well, I don't really understand Sarcastro's arguments. I must be stupid." Then I realized that I'm not stupid and that there was nothing there. I'm sure I'll get a condescending response from him for this post, but so be it.

CTD, on the other hand, does seem rational, at least to me.

I don't like how Guardian lists his top suspects as CTD and Xdammo, but is keeping his vote on Sarcastro. Playing both sides of the fence?

Also, I agree that Albert B. Rampage is not helpful.

MoS is VA/LA until next Thursday. In addition, I am VA/LA until Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll send PJ a PM and ask him to keep an eye on things.

[Rishi]

The ironic thing is I joined this game because I thought it would be less reading. This is actually at least twice as much reading as other games...

I think Guardian is right. People are so focused on the page limit that they are forgetting about the time limit. We're already a month into this game. And we're still on Day 1. This game could go 4-5 days, so we should get moving.

First, I really have to apologize to Guardian. I honestly thought his vote was on Sarcastro. I must have mid-read the vote count somehow. I rarely do that.

Has anyone else noticed how Sarcastro clammed up once people other than CTD started attacking him?

It's usually not enough for a vote, but I do want to keep this game moving.

Vote: Sarcastro

[Rishi]

Just as a clarification, I don't understand why wasting posts is "scummy." If we go over the limit, everyone in the game loses, including the Mafia. Could someone explain this reasoning to me?

[Rishi]

I think we should probably get a claim from Sarcastro or Sarcastro's replacement.

[Rishi]

I'm going to take this claim at face value for now.

Unvote

[Rishi]

Its just fucking stupid to make long-winded posts like this. I just realized that the reason I joined this game because it was supposed to be SHORT.

Well, if you're going to be hostile, then maybe we should save you the trouble of reading.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

That's -1. Claim, please.

[Rishi]

Unvote

Power roles galore. I don't know what to think any more. I am glad this game is moving though.

[Rishi]

I won't be discussing the flavor. Take the claim or leave it and lynch me.

Well, someone has just plain given up on the game. I haven't played in a themed game before, but I just don't like the idea of a claim without flavor.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Rishi]

Yes, but that's an 'if'. I guess I can't prove what you were thinking of at the time, so nevermind/this is a waste of posts.

Unvote Vote: Skruffs

if I haven't done so already, putting my money where my mouth is.

Umm. Skruffs isn't in this game. Sorry to keep wasting posts, but time is more important than posts right now, and this needed to be said.

[Rishi]

Well, I really hope we don't have two cops in this game, because if CES really is a cop, we're probably going to lynch MoS tomorrow.

Unvote

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

[Rishi]

Sure.. I'll go with the advice of the experienced players. I am the vig. The flavor is that I am a knight in shining armor and my task is to protect the innocent citizens.

I killed Coron for two main reasons: 1) He wasn't on the CES lynch. 2) He seemed to be lurking. It's possible that he just disappeared. But since we are short on time, I didn't want someone who would slow down the game by not posting.

I am not sure why Albert B. Rampage lied about his claim, but I guess it made him a scum target.

[Rishi]

The reason I am not seeing VitaminR as scum is that CES named him as innocent in his fake claim. I don't think that a scum would point to his partner. It just seems too obvious. Of course, this could be a WIFOM argument.

[Rishi]

Thinking about it -- what if Xdaamno is the last scum?

ABR got killed because he was a RBer, who blocked Xdaamno. He was killed instead of a cop.

I am not sure what the case is on you, Guardian. But I wanted to address this point.

According to Ibby's death scene, ABR was just a Commoner. I guess there's a slight possibility that the exact roles aren't revealed on death, just the alignment, but I tend to think ABR lied about his role in order to prevent himself from being lynched. This was probably bad play, but it actually ended up working out for the town.

I had an analysis of who was left, but Pooky simul-posted a better and more concise analysis. The thing I'm most worried about, however, is that Pooky is some kind of godfather. We can worry about that later if we're not hitting the last scum.

I do want to hear from CTD, who has not posted in a very long time. Xdammo and VitaminR also haven't checked in since Day 3 dawned.

Ibby - when you're feeling better, maybe we can get some prods?

[Rishi]

Still want to hear from Xdammo and VitaminR, but I think this game is almost impossible to lose as town.

I'll also note, if there is a doctor in this setup, don't out yourself. And, use your protection on MoS and not me. My kill, I assume, will still go through even if I get killed. But MoS won't be able to tell us his investigation results if he's dead.

One thing we also have to be careful about is that there might be a Godfather in this setup that isn't Pooky. Pooky could be genuinely innocent, but there might be a Godfather elsewhere.

Anyway, I don't want to waste posts if I don't have to, so, unless something changes, I'm going with MoS's plan. I will plan to vig VitaminR tonight, if Kinetic doesn't turn up as scum.

Vote: Kinetic

[Rishi]

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

I don't like he said we shouldn't speculate Vig/Cop choices. That sounded like scum spouting town rhetoric. In this case, we should decide who to vig today, and I was only saying who I would investigate as a

list of people who weren't investigated or dead already

. We shouldn't give the cop and vig a chance to target the same person, so the scum can try to kill the person I investigate, but if there's a scum still alive after the lynch and vig kill, I have a good chance of finding scum as well, and even if they kill the person I investigate, we have another lynch/vig to get rid of the last two people. What Yos2 said makes no sense at all, and it really feels like it came from scum.

I would support vigging Xdaamno tonight.

Uh. I think you mean VitaminR.

I really don't like how Kinetic is doing his best to steer us to lynch someone else. If he was really town, then he'd know it would be the best play to start lynching the unconfirmed people. My vote stands for now.

If we lynch VitaminR, I will probably vig Kinetic. We can discuss the vig choice without discussing the cop choice.

[Rishi]

Rishi: Let me ask you this- You are unconfirmed as town, but you know you are town. Would you just lay back and die or would you at least try and get the scum to die first?

Absolutely I would lay back and sacrifice myself. Remember, if you are pro-town, you win even if you are dead. We win as a team. It makes no difference if you're dead. The town can't really lose this. All you're doing is confusing the issue.

PLUS, what I don't like about what you're doing is that you are forcing us to use more pages against our limit and more time.

[Rishi]

Well, maybe everyone should list their two most likely candidates for scum and those will be the ones we lynch/vig? In case we're wrong, I can see that this debate will be very useful in determining out targets tomorrow, but I really think we should reach a consensus and move into the night.

My top two candidates are Kinetic and Xdammo.

I don't see CTD as scum for reasons already stated. Since we had a nightstart, it's possible that he concocted a fight with Sarcastro, figuring that one of them would be lynched Day 2 and the other would be presumed innocent. That's quite a gambit and I think should be considered as only slightly more likely than Pooky being the godfather.

I agree with CTD's metagaming of Guardian. I've played with him enough that I hope I can spot when he's town at this point. He seems town here.

I could see why VitaminR is suspicious. I just think Xdammo and Kinetic are more likely to be scum.

Unless I calculated wrong, we have four chances to catch scum. In fact, if there is a doctor in this setup and no godfather, there is no possible way for us to lose. I realize those are two big ifs, especially the first one.

[Rishi]

Unvote, Vote: Xdammo

I'll play along. I'll even vig VitaminR tonight. However, if Kinetic turns up scum, I reserve to the right to say, "I told you so."

[Rishi]

While I'd obviously advocate Kinetic over myself, I'm not liking his lynch/vig at all. Out of everyone, I'd go for VitR/Rishi.

Great idea. I'll vig myself.

ZOMG SCUM PARTNERS KINETIC/XDAAMNO - I'm going to hate having to defend against that one.

There's only one scum left. It is really obvious that you're not paying attention to a damn thing going on in this game. And you are the one who voted for Skruffs and didn't even unvote after you were told it was a mistake.

I was somewhat borderline before, but I'll fully for this lynch now.

[Rishi]

You don't think suggesting a lynch of the vig is a scumtell? I'll admit you may have made a reasonable mistake, but in a game that is short in both time and posts, we are sure wasting a whole lot of both on your mistakes.

Furthermore, you were asked to claim. You didn't. That's also somewhat scummy.

And Skruffs isn't even in this game. That's the mistake you were making. If you don't know the situation in "a load of games," perhaps you should play in fewer games? Personally, I expect that people would know what is going on in a game when they're playing, or at least keep notes. Is that so wrong?

[Rishi]

Wow. Can't believe it's already over. I really didn't think VitaminR was scum, but I didn't want to go against the town wishes.

I got really lucky in my vig kills, especially Coron. But here was my reasoning - there were four people not on the Sarcastro/CES bandwagon: Pooky, Coron, Xdaamno and Kinetic. MoS had already confirmed Pooky as innocent and I didn't think it was fair to vig Kinetic before he got a chance to play. So, in the toss-up between Coron and Xdaamno, I picked Coron because he had not posted in a longer time.

Good job all. Guardian already handed out his props. I agree with those and I also wanted to tip my hat to MoS. I think, after he was confirmed as a cop, he took on a leadership role in the game and handled it very well.

Anyway, a well-modded game, Ibby, and a fun one. It took us a while to get the ball rolling on Day 1, but once it started rolling, it didn't stop.

[Rishi]

Vig should not kill N1. The fact that he didn't kill is what made me believe he wasn't an SK with investigation immunity.

For the record, I was allowed to kill on N1, but didn't for this very reason.

[Rishi]

Hey, ABR, why did you fakeclaim roleblocker?