Mini 489: Short and Sweet Mafia - Game Over

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think we can all agree the bear is responsible for all this.

Vote Pooky

Pooky is clearly innocent, you cannot possibly think him responsible for this heinous crime!

Vote: Albert

I got yo back, Pooky!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Where was I random voting?

FoS: Guardian

What's with all the Pooky hate? ^_^

[Mastermind of Sin]

Pooky tells the truth. Neither he nor I would ever kill one of the Huggle Alliance's founding members on Night 1.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not spamming. The fact that you would make such an accusation just means that you aren't willing to take my posts seriously. I could've written those posts in a more serious manner and said the exact same thing, and you wouldn't have called it spamming, I bet. Excuse me if I think a light-hearted tone is a better way to start off a game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I have access again. Thanks to SSF for posting for me. That was weird, but it works now for some reason.

Yay!

VitR, I haven't felt the need to comment on either of those wagons. Even though it's technically not random voting, it carries about the same weight with me. It's so early in the game, I don't see either wagon as meaning anything to me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

HOW THE FUCK AM I SPAMMING? EVEN *IF* I WAS SPAMMING BEFORE, AND THAT'S DEBATABLE, I AM CERTAINLY ONLY POSTING WHEN I NEED TO RESPOND TO SOMEONE ELSE. I AM FUCKING TIRED OF YOUR BULLSHIT, SO STOP NOW. I DON'T PLAY THIS GAME TO READ RETARDED SHIT, THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TEXTBOOKS FOR.

[Mastermind of Sin]

If trumpezia is someone's alt, I hope I never find out who it is, because I will go strangle them. If that was a vet, they should know me well enough to not have said the things they've said.

Albert, why do you think Sarc is scummy enough to keep your vote on him? How do you feel about Trumpezia and Guardian? Guardian has been a rather high profile player, yet you didn't mention him in your last post, even though you stated your opinion of most of the other active players.

Rishi, why don't you think LmL was a random kill? Do you have any evidence that suggests this, or is it just because someone else already mentioned it, so you thought it would look protown to become interested in who killed him?

Coron has been prodded.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Coron, why are you answering a question that I specifically posed to Rishi? Is your name Rishi? I think not. Next time try to let people answer for themselves instead of feeding them an answer so that they can't get caught having made a reasonless assertion. I never claimed that I disagreed with LmL being a planned kill, but I wanted to see if Rishi was actually trying to contribute or just riding the coattails of other players' comments. Now, he can just reword your answer and feed it back to me, and I have no way of knowing whether or not it's genuine. Please think about these things beforfe you do something stupid.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sure... I'll respond to the question. The only way I would think that LoudMouthLee's death is purely random is if all the members of the Mafia were completely unfamiliar with all the rest of the players. I find that highly unlikely.

If I were Mafia and got to kill someone on the first night, with absolutely nothing in the game thread to base my decision on, I would base my decision on previous games I have had with the other players. I would probably want to get rid of someone I knew rather than a stranger, because you have no idea how that stranger is going to play the game. I just always assume that Mafia kills have SOME motivation behind them.

So that's all I meant. Take it for what you will.

I'm glad you didn't let Coron ruin the question. Even though he thinks it was a stupid question, your answer has outlined the very point I wanted to make.

You, a relative newbie (ie, you wouldn't be counted as one of the 5 or so Veteran players Coron mentioned), said that if you were mafia and got to kill on the first night, you would kill someone that you know something about. However, I, a "veteran", would not do this at all. In fact, because I *know* that people try to metagame night 1 kills, I always randomly kill on N1. I do a dice roll in my notes and kill that person, just like I do a dice roll to random vote in every game I play (except this one, because I was trying to avoid the random voting period altogether, for obvious reasons). So my point is, this isn't a blanket rule, but at least one veteran in this game thinks ahead of the theory Rishi suggested and does a random kill so that this exact theory wouldn't find them out as scum. I believe most of the veterans in this game capable of coming up with such a strategy, so I would actually look at some of the middle-ground players not unlike Rishi himself. However, even this is not even remotely evidence worth acting upon.

Hence, I agree with CTD on how to treat the LML kill.

I think I agree with Vitr and Coron that not all posts are worth quoting, but few should be ignored all together.

What types of posts do you believe should be ignored altogether?

trumpieza is definitely an alt (no newbies can quote that well), and his post was very reasonable. I don't understand MoS's dislike of him.

Why am I not surprised? Unfortunately for me, explaining further would merely be brushed off as a WIFOM argument coming from me. It would require someone else to actually understand it and point it out on their own for it to not be WIFOM, and you'd probably accuse them of being my scumbuddy.

I am not sure what I feel about Rishi's 28. His positive (and accurate) metagaming of me makes me want to scream that he is definitely town (scum positive metagaming like that seems silly, I don't think he'd have been so obvious about it if he were scum), but something sits wrong with me, for some reason.

What doesn't feel right about it?

Does anyone else feel like the statement "and accurate" is pushing it a little bit? He made his point once, it seems that he's going out of his way to remind us that he is protown.

Coron's entry to the game was reasonable, though I really dislike how he answered the question posed to Rishi.

What do you think of his defense justification that he felt it "was just a really stupid question"?

VitaminR also seems to be pretty townlike

What do you find protown about him?

MoS, I have serious issues with your play. Your posts could have been thirded

Thirded? What do you mean by this?

, and there is no need for the anger and flaming that went on in them.

You don't know me very well, do you? One would think that after seeing how I reacted to Battle Mage joining Mafiascum, you would realize that I hate playing with people who use idiotic reasoning,

especially

when they try to attack me with it.

A good part of me really thinks it is faked.

Make of it what you will. All this proves is that you don't know how I operate.

Posting short, spammy posts is not going to fly with me in this game, nor is stating things without justification (that you want to strangle trump for example -- or that if your posts had the same content and were longer that I'd be OK with them -- if you had the same number of posts and just as much content, I'd still be very suspicious.)

unvote vote: MoS

Actually, you pretty much just proved my point for me. You admit that Albert has not posted much content, yet you do not attack him for it. You merely ask him to contribute more. So therefore, if I posted the same amount of content in less post, you would definitely not be attacking me for it.

As for wanting to strangle trump, it's not really something I *need* to justify. It justifies itself if you actually know anything about me. Nothing more needs to be said.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm going to have to disagree with this, while I agree that killing someone you have a grudge against or who has a history of finding you scum is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean that it isn't important to take a player's skill into account when deciding who to kill. For instance let's say LML is much better than Bob, so in order to win the game as scum you say "well, I should probably kill LML more often, but it might be suspicious for me to kill him all the time, and the doctors will start to catch on". Thus it is apropriate to put a weight on people who are better as town/catch you more often, but not to do it every time.

Even following your plan, it's still impossible to predict who could've killed LmL.

Coron's entry to the game was reasonable, though I really dislike how he answered the question posed to Rishi.

What do you think of his defense justification that he felt it "was just a really stupid question"?

I think my defense was just fine.

No one asked you. Obviously you think your "defense" was just fine, but that doesn't mean it was.

, and there is no need for the anger and flaming that went on in them.

You don't know me very well, do you? One would think that after seeing how I reacted to Battle Mage joining Mafiascum, you would realize that I hate playing with people who use idiotic reasoning,

especially

when they try to attack me with it.

his reasoning is not idiotic, as far as I can tell you just think that because he disagrees with you.

It's not that he disagrees with me, there is a more specific reason, but it's not really important.

I don't see why Coron answering MoS' question for Rishi is suspicious, I mean, surely it is better if everyone provided their opinion, and I often find that it is more illuminating to hear what a player says on a topic after somebody else already made a stance.

Because, as I explained before, Rishi-scum could've "agreed" with Coron's answer, when there was a specific reason that I asked Rishi the question. If I wanted to know what other people felt about it, I wouldn't direct it at a specific person.

I think I agree with Vitr and Coron that not all posts are worth quoting, but few should be ignored all together.

What types of posts do you believe should be ignored altogether?

I haven't seen any in this game, nor can I think of any -- Coron and VitaminR seemed to imply that some posts were like this, no?

But you agreed with them. If you agreed with them, then you must have some example that you saw. You can't shrug the responsibility onto them just because they suggested it first and you agreed.

Does anyone else feel like the statement "and accurate" is pushing it a little bit? He made his point once, it seems that he's going out of his way to remind us that he is protown.

Why should it? I desperately would like to not be mislynched this game. I was just mislynched for the 5th time at endgame (sadly, due to mod error... hmm, hi MoS... sadly due to mod error, I didn't identify the scum pairing at endgame for the first time) and I'd very much like for a Guardian-mislynch to not occur in this game.

5 times is nothing. I think you're overreacting. I can understand your opening post, but you are continuing to push this point too far.

Coron's entry to the game was reasonable, though I really dislike how he answered the question posed to Rishi.

What do you think of his defense justification that he felt it "was just a really stupid question"?

I think that's a bad reason to answer a question posed to someone else.

VitaminR also seems to be pretty townlike

What do you find protown about him?

His suspicions up to the point where I made that post made sense to me and I agreed with.

MoS, I have serious issues with your play. Your posts could have been thirded

Thirded? What do you mean by this?

You could have posted 1/3 as many posts as you did and been just as effective.

This once again proves the point I made earlier. I could've posted the same amount of content in less posts, and you wouldn't have attacked me.

A good part of me really thinks it is faked.

Make of it what you will. All this proves is that you don't know how I operate.

Is this true, anyone, from your experience with MoS? He is asking us to positively metagame him (as I am asking everyone to positively metagame me ) -- I would love knowing if there is substance behind this.

Asking us to not lynch you because you always get mislynched is *not* a logical metagame. Asking you to look at my playstyle and compare it to other games *is* logical.

Posting short, spammy posts is not going to fly with me in this game, nor is stating things without justification (that you want to strangle trump for example -- or that if your posts had the same content and were longer that I'd be OK with them -- if you had the same number of posts and just as much content, I'd still be very suspicious.)

unvote vote: MoS

Actually, you pretty much just proved my point for me. You admit that Albert has not posted much content, yet you do not attack him for it. You merely ask him to contribute more. So therefore, if I posted the same amount of content in less post, you would definitely not be attacking me for it.

No -- you proved my point. Your posts up until this one basically wasted our posting space for the whole game. Make posts like this one and I'll have much less of an issue with you. Albert needed to post more -- you needed to post less.

See above for you once again proving the point I made in this quote.

Unvote, Vote: Guardian

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm getting good vibes from VitR, but I'm not going to rely on them entirely.

I'm going to stay out of the CTD/Sarc argument for now, because I can't tell which of them is more full of shit.

ABR is not being helpful at all. If he wants to prove that Sarc's post is bullshit, he should go through and actually show what was wrong with each part of the post. Just saying that it makes no sense is completely pointless, and it carries no weight with anyone who has an ounce of intelligence.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I am still highly unconvinced of Sarc scum or CTD town.

ABR indeed needs independent thinking.

---

MoS's post deserved a reply:

I think I agree with Vitr and Coron that not all posts are worth quoting, but few should be ignored all together.

What types of posts do you believe should be ignored altogether?

I haven't seen any in this game, nor can I think of any -- Coron and VitaminR seemed to imply that some posts were like this, no?

But you agreed with them.

I said few should be ignored all together. That doesn't mean that I've seen any that should be ignored all together. I

didn't

agree with them.

Sorry, I read that as "a few", not "few". Big difference.

A good part of me really thinks it is faked.

Make of it what you will. All this proves is that you don't know how I operate.

Is this true, anyone, from your experience with MoS? He is asking us to positively metagame him (as I am asking everyone to positively metagame me ) -- I would love knowing if there is substance behind this.

Asking us to not lynch you because you always get mislynched is *not* a logical metagame.

Yes it is. I always get mislynched, and have been lynched only once as scum. Lynching me almost never results in a pro-town achievement.

Not only that, I am pretty good at finding scum, if terrible at convincing others. So not only do you lose a pro-town player, you lose a scum hunter as well.

Lynching me = anti-town.

Wrong. Dead wrong. There is no statistical probability that makes you more likely to be town than anyone else in the game. Just because you get mislynched as town in other games does not make you more likely to be town in this one. You *should* get lynched more as town than as scum, if you're getting lynched, because the statistics are in favor of all of us being town instead of scum. You are not special, you do not get a coupon that lets you have better odds at being town than the rest of us. Your argument is appealing to emotion, crap logic, and complete bullshit.

I very much like Rishi's last post and this observation:

I don't like how Guardian lists his top suspects as CTD and Xdammo, but is keeping his vote on Sarcastro. Playing both sides of the fence?

It seems horribly inconsistent from Guardian's side.

I'm pretty pleased with my Guardian vote, although I could go for a Sarc lynch as well.

I found Rishi a bit off for this, but I was happy I didn't point it out... since VitaminR agreed with it.

I am voting for CTD, right now, not Sarcastro.

VitaminR agreeing with a completely factually incorrect reason to find me scummy screams of opportunism to me. I think he is buddying to Rishi.


Of Pooky's list, I think that I and Coron are town, and Pooky is scum with VitaminR. No, I don't intend to justify why Pooky is scum, but I equally don't intend to pursue him instead of VitaminR today, I think.


VitaminR's actions in agreeing with Rishi's completely incorrect statement is highly suspicous to me.

unvote: CTD vote: VitaminR

---

For my reference:

Xdaamno - scummy??
Mastermind of Sin - scummy?
CrashTextDummie - scummy?
Rishi - town?
PookyTheMagicalBear - scum?
VitaminR - scum
Coron - town
Sarcastro - town
Guardian - town
Albert B. Rampage -
trumpezia - town??

Why is ABR on your category, but I'm "scummy"? He's as guilty of lacking content and making short posts, meaningless posts as I am, if not more. At least most of my posts say something useful.

Unvote, vote: Sarc

I have no reason to believe he is town, and I am not going to contribute to the stalling that people are causing under the pretense of waiting for enough posts to pass so that they are not "spamming". That's a bullshit excuse that the mafia have used to consume nearly 1/3 of our game time.

Holy Crap, It's Page 4 Vote Count

Sarcastro (5): CTD, Albert, VitaminR, Rishi, MoS
Albert (2): Pooky, Coron
CTD (1): Sarcastro
trumpezia (1): Xdaamno
VitaminR: (1) Guardian

Not voting: (1) trumpezia

11 living, 6 to lynch

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm the cop, pooky is innocent.

Unvote, vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

[Mastermind of Sin]

I am a bard, but no one pays attention to me, because I'm only there for entertainment. I can find out if someone is a criminal or not by listening in on their private conversations while playing my lyranthe at the back of Mapleleaf Tavern.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: Rishi

for trying to set up future lynches.

Kinetic replaces trumpezia effective immediately. However, it looks like he won't be posting today because I see a lynch.

Day 1 Final Vote Count

CES (6): CTD, VitaminR, MoS, Albert, Guardian, Rishi
Albert (3): Pooky, Coron, CES
Kinetic: (1) Xdaamno

Not voting: (1) Kinetic

11 living, 6 to lynch

After a while, Ibby digs her book out from behind her dresser and begins to read it again. The villagers of Sunnyflower Acres have gathered outside the Mapleleaf Tavern. Arguments escalate among the villagers, fingers are pointed and accusations begin to fly. The peaceful folks Ibby had begun to know had become hungry for vengeance.

Finally, near dark, Cogito Ergo Sum is drug forward to face the village. He proclaims his innocence, crying out that he is but a simple tavern-keeper's daughter. His attempts to convince the village that he has done nothing but try to find the criminals fall on deaf ears. A rope is tossed over a large branch of the tree outside the tavern from which it drew its name. Cogito Ergo Sum is tossed upon a horse and brought beneath the tree. After the rope is looped securely around his neck, the crack of a whip is heard. The horse bolts forward and Cogito Ergo Sum is yanked from the seat of the horse. He dies quickly, his neck snapping with a loud *CRACK*.

As Cogito Ergo Sum is brought down from the tree, something falls out of his tunic. A villager picks it up and examines it, then holds it up for the others to see. Shining in the palm of the villager's hand is a small multi-faceted gem, once part of a pendant worn by one of the recently murdered villagers. The victim's mother falls to her knees, tears streaming down her cheeks.

Cogito Ergo Sum, Bandit, has been lynched

It is now night 2. Day 2 will begin no later than Sept 22nd (whatever time I get around to it).

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Guardian

I got an innocent last night. I think Guardian or Kinetic is our last scum. Our vig should claim so we can confirm another person and narrow down the suspects.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I got an innocent on Rishi, which is perfect. I thought there might be a chance of an SK setting up a vig claim, which is why I asked for the claim. However, Rishi is defeinitely clear, so we don't have to worry about that. Let us not forget that there might be a godfather. Just think about that in case I'm dead later in the game. Rishi would not be the godfather, of course, because he's the vig and gets a separate kill from the mafia.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: Kinetic

I actually feel that CTD and VitaminR always voting with what are now confirmed protown players is a point in their favor, because their suspicions were the same as a protown player's suspicions.

Lynch Kinetic
Vig VitaminR
I'll investigate CTD, Xdaamno, or Guardian

I would be willing to lynch/vig any combination of Kinetic, VitaminR, and Xdaamno. I could see them all as scum, but for very different reasons.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

I don't like he said we shouldn't speculate Vig/Cop choices. That sounded like scum spouting town rhetoric. In this case, we should decide who to vig today, and I was only saying who I would investigate as a

list of people who weren't investigated or dead already

. We shouldn't give the cop and vig a chance to target the same person, so the scum can try to kill the person I investigate, but if there's a scum still alive after the lynch and vig kill, I have a good chance of finding scum as well, and even if they kill the person I investigate, we have another lynch/vig to get rid of the last two people. What Yos2 said makes no sense at all, and it really feels like it came from scum.

I would support vigging Xdaamno tonight.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I disagree with Rishi. I would not sacrifice myself under any circumstances. I would defend myself and, more importantly, give as much of my opinion on the scum as possible, so that the town would have all my thoughts before I died.

Unvote, Vote: VitaminR

Sorry, I don't know why I get them mixed up, but I do. Probably the extra letter/number on the end.

Happy Belated Vote Count

Kinetic (3): Rishi, Xdaamno, VitR
Xdaamno (2): Kinetic, Guardian
Guardian (1): Pooky
VitaminR (1): MoS

not voting (1): CTD

8 alive, 5 to lynch

[Mastermind of Sin]

cmon guys. Let's just lynch VitR and vig Xdaamno. Kinetic just isn't worth it today. I like the way he has reacted to pressure. We have plenty of chances to win. Let's do this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Xdaamno, I investigated Rishi. If he's SK, he not only didn't kill N1 (I wouldn't expect him to do that as SK. Hell, I might not have done it as SK), he also has investigation immunity.

Unvote, Vote: Xdaamno

Please vig VitaminR tonight.

End of Day 2 Vote Count

Xdaamno (5): Kinetic, Guardian, Rishi, Pooky, MoS
Kinetic (2): Xdaamno, VitR

not voting (1): CTD

Ibby gasps as Xdaamno is yanked from the cozy spot he's been dozing in all day and thrown over the back of his own horse. Xdaamno blinks and attempts to come up with some sort of excuse to explain his lack of attention. The villagers of Sunnyflower Acres aren't having any of it, though. The same rope that was used to hang the criminal bandit, Cogito Ergo Sum, is tossed around Xdaamno's neck and a collective breath is held until the crack of a whip sends Xdaamno to his demise.

Xdaamno, Commoner, has been lynched

It's now Night 3. Day 3 will begin no later than Oct 2.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vig should not kill N1. The fact that he didn't kill is what made me believe he wasn't an SK with investigation immunity.

By the way, "I told you so". Vitty was scumz! ^_^

Too bad I got so much flak for playing the game

correctly

.

Anyway, good job everyone!

[Mastermind of Sin]

I wasn't spamming at all. You called it spamming because you were being post-nazi. This is exactly my point.

There really was no reason at all not to play this game like any other from the start, which is what I think MoS was attempting to do. He got a lot of flack for it, but I think he understood the goal and purpose of this game better than most.

QFT. I rest my case.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Tru dat.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS, I get that you were breadcrumbing. Due to my teachings from LML, I even suspected that it might have been breadcrumbing at the time, and you claiming innocent on Pooky later was totally legit and convincing.


Even so, I don't like how you used two posts when one would have done etc. I don't want to argue with you as you've played well this game, but suffice it to say that I would make the same requests and suspicions again re: post counts .

You were taking the post count issue WAY too seriously. There was never a reason to be a post-Nazi. Your nagging on everyone about conserving posts actually caused the game to stall a LOT, which is

BAD

. I wouldn't change anything I did either.