Mini 1597: Runecast Mafia - Day 5

[Mantisdreamz]

hello

[Mantisdreamz]

i'm gonna wait a few pages or so... because right now i have no reads whatsoever

[Mantisdreamz]

nah, that's just how kthx posts

[Mantisdreamz]

kthx is probly town

let it rip, dude

LET IT RIP

lol

[Mantisdreamz]

oh wait.. tunnelmate is part Bert, yes?

[Mantisdreamz]

The praying mantis has no relation to mantis dreamz.

this is not true

[Mantisdreamz]

@

Mod

- Since we have players insisting on using names that are not in this game, can you please update the player's list in the OP to reflect Hydra memberships, plz? I didn't even realize that some of these dudes

were

Hydras, let alone who's in them.

^

yes please

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, my love... why?

cause... dex, my love.. i'm just not seeing anything atm. i only really know you and kthx in this game (though, apparently bert, nacho, and NS are in it??) <- i can work with them too.

but you and kthx haven't said a whole ton that makes me think "town". so was gonna lay back for a bit and see.

i don't think that Osseus pseudotripodis (purely copy-pasted) was justified in voting kthx.

[Mantisdreamz]

The praying mantis has no relation to mantis dreamz.

this is not true

You're a mutant?

i am. dammit, how did you manage to figure this out

[Mantisdreamz]

from now on, i'm just going to call him os. because there's no way i can try and remember that name

[Mantisdreamz]

Call him Ossy things

That's wut mollie and I called him in a past game

The name is too long and sounds like a volcano eruption

mollie also calls me a creature... so let's not!

well.. it sounds more like a magic spell, i think.
tho volcano eruption, magic spell... we might be on the same terms

is this bert posting?

[Mantisdreamz]

i think i'll go here
VOTE: highshroomish

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: highshroomish[/vote]
^useless vote


gonna catch up tomorrow

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: highshroomish

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: highshroomish

[Mantisdreamz]

Sorry for posts not being better. Daughter is four on Monday and had one party yesterday, another tomorrow.

happy bday to your daughter : )

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, my love... why?

cause... dex, my love.. i'm just not seeing anything atm. i only really know you and kthx in this game (though, apparently bert, nacho, and NS are in it??) <- i can work with them too.

but you and kthx haven't said a whole ton that makes me think "town". so was gonna lay back for a bit and see.

i don't think that Osseus pseudotripodis (purely copy-pasted) was justified in voting kthx.

Bert and notscience are tunnel mates, desperado and nacho are in this hydra.

thanks

[Mantisdreamz]

I for one would very much like to hear Mantis's responses to OP's p84.

Mantis, my love... why?

cause... dex, my love.. i'm just not seeing anything atm. i only really know you and kthx in this game (though, apparently bert, nacho, and NS are in it??) <- i can work with them too.

but you and kthx haven't said a whole ton that makes me think "town". so was gonna lay back for a bit and see.

i don't think that Osseus pseudotripodis (purely copy-pasted) was justified in voting kthx.

Not.....justified? Do you even see what you just typed? I shouldn't vote a player I think is scummy? You even just said "....and kthx haven't said a whole ton that makes me think "town". So if you don't think they are town at the moment, why is it crazy for me to vote one of them?

well.. it was more that you seemed to be voting him for his style of posting.

you said,

Holy crap.

Vote: kthxbye

Scum caught.

in response to his post 51

maybe that wasn't the case.. but i kind of assumed that (possibly wrong assumption).

that's why i responded.. nah, kthx always posts like that

[Mantisdreamz]

*responded: "nah, kthx.." should be quotes there^

[Mantisdreamz]

There are 4 people scummier than d3x and you are voting d3x? Um no, sorry:

VOTE: Lynx
Not to mention that your scumreads are all people who have voiced suspicion on you. This is just so bad ( scummy).

i don't think it's scummy though. as town, i often get sus of those raising suspicions

[Mantisdreamz]

i'm undecided though on whether i think lynx is scum or not. gameplay seems town.

[Mantisdreamz]

Dislike konowa referring to themselves in the 3rd person, but happy enough with their posts so far
Gameplay seems defensive
Mantis had so e posts and then a vote. The two seem unrelated to me.

Tunnel mates - my god I hate hydras. So much posts. So little content. Much annoyance. Because I can't say they aren't not talking but they give me nothing to go on. I hope they improve when the game gets serious


Just realised, I be been in a game with nacho mama too.

D3x is my fave in this game. I want them to stick around

Ansuz - posting but post 49 got my back up. The kind of post to get others to contribute proper content without themselves having to do so. If there is much depiction of this then I will vote against it

Plz translate this into reads. Use the words 'town' and 'scum'

Surely you don't need to see those two words to understand my post?

Konowa - more town than most

why?

Mantis - more scum, didn't like how his vote and his content didn't match up

i didn't even have any content though. except that i thought ossy wasn't justified in voting kthx.. for which looked like he was voting due to kthx's style.
my vote was random the first time. 2nd time, it was cause i saw kthx voting him, and figured the pressure would be good.

^saying that though, i had planned to remove it, cause i got thinking again that it still is a little useless. he's not around, so how much pressure can he really feel... that and how much longer should i keep my vote there.

Tunnel mates - no read, but I dislike a posting style that generates quantity but little quality. It allows a character to be in the game but give no one else anything to go on. So whilst I don't think yet they are scum, their style of posting is something someone scummy might do.

i like hydra, but personally am wondering about them at this point in the re read.

D3x - most town in the game to me.

ya

Ansuz - one of their posts I really didn't like so I will keep my eye on them for a while as I think they are scummier than most

which one?

Happy?

kinda sounds like you just quickly flung a few reasons together tbh..

[Mantisdreamz]

oh ya
UNVOTE: highshroomish

going to finish reading before putting one down

[Mantisdreamz]

typically, scum will wait until they're close to lynch to start flailing

geri... went a different way

Why arent you voting me?

he's talking about geri?
geraintm

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa likes LynxKuroneko as town. This is mainly due to the back and forth between gameplay506 and LynxKuroneko. Konowa was worried that LynxKuroneko had some godawful posting restriction at first. Thankfully that is not the case.

at first i was thinking it was town versus town as well. but i dunno how much i like lynx's reasons for his reads
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6100617

Konowa is pretty set on gameplay506 being scum.

D3x lol just lol. I am wondering how can somebody twist posts like that. So lets get this right:In post 31 I say that in your post 28 you make a big deal of me calling the formed wagons RVS wagons.Yet note that I didn't vote you for this. Then in post 62 you continue making a big deal out of it and finally in post 82 I vote you for both things. So where exactly does the misrepping come from? You are just twisting it so bad. And considering this now I think the liar tag fits you better.

Nope, nope, nope. Clearly in post 31 gameplay506 says that d3x is making a big deal out of things and is using later posts for "aggressive" justification.

Post #146 is nothing but loaded questions designed more to frame d3x as scum rather than try to determine d3x's alignment.

Konowa feels like he needs to look at other people. Konowa will do that soon.

oh wait. you didn't think it was T v T. actually, i kind of liked gameplay's push on lynx... maybe not the way he went about it. cause i didn't like that he said "everything about lynx is wrong", or whatever. but.. ya seemed more like town thinking they've caught scum for sure.

[Mantisdreamz]

Burning Earth reads town to me.

d3x, surprisingly, is reading town to me atm.

I don't like Tunnel, but I think it's posting style atm more than scummy.

HighShroomish is top scum on my radar.

noo i think it's more than his posting style.
reads-

mantis

d3x

hiplop

my scumreads, idk about my other head

we are both here right now

our faces have gone from red hot to ice cold

true facts, get it straight bro

we a high-profile addition to the division of town

why hiplop, why d3x? k.. i can get scum read on me maybee, cause i wasn't posting, and usually spam.


that and NS saying that he thought lynx was town, after lynx just stated that her gut scum read could be them
seems kinda... like maybe he was trying to appeal/buddy?

unless he was trolling and knows lynx's play.. or if he's had experience with lynx reading him as scum before, as town.
still don't like his reads though

[Mantisdreamz]

Okay, well

UNVOTE
VOTE: LYNX

Everything has already been said...

WTF is this and why is nobody on your shit about it?

VOTE: HighShroomish

my 150 called him.out. not enough to vote but certainly his vote was poor

do you think lynx is town?

[Mantisdreamz]

like-
kthx, d3x, gameplay

dislike-
tunnelmates

leaning scummy, but not so sure-
geraintm

VOTE: tunnelmates


not sure how much i trust nacho yet either.

[Mantisdreamz]

i'm tempted..

[Mantisdreamz]

We actually have to get to post 183 before I can really see them giving any thoughts of their own

cause i agree with you here. it was logical posting and good questions... buuut. that doesn't signify town.

and nacho, i tend to think he's a bit more of a gut reader as town

[Mantisdreamz]

that and NS saying that he thought lynx was town, after lynx just stated that her gut scum read could be them
seems kinda... like maybe he was trying to appeal/buddy?

fuck

you caught me

maybe!

[Mantisdreamz]

i kind of think gameplay was having a bit of a "fuckit" attitude.. to show that his read on lynx (as town) was for real.

lynx, ahh - i didn't realize this was your *first* game

[Mantisdreamz]

nah :p

[Mantisdreamz]

this leaves me.. still... with anzsus and tunnelmates

[Mantisdreamz]

...and burning earth

Ansuz (Nacho and Desperado)
TunnelMates (notscience and bert)
Burning_Earth


HighShroomish
Konowa
Osseus pseudotripodis (t-bone and Untrod Tripod)
gameplay506
Mantisdreamz
geraintm
hiplop
Kthxbye
LynxKuroneko
d3x

[Mantisdreamz]

Trollmates?

Weak.

Mantis I'm sad you haven't been reaching out to us

you haven't been around!

[Mantisdreamz]

and to top it, you had me as scum! that was lame!

[Mantisdreamz]

Is that list in a most scummy to most town format? If so, what are your reasons for top 3 scum? (You don't have to waste your time with TrollMates). Then, what lets you see suspect players as town? (HighShroomish, gameplay506, myself).

If not... Then why the roll call?

tomorrow

and ya the 3 i have singled out are the ones i think could be scum

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: mantis creature

Let's daaaaaaance

get NS in here, i would like to speak with him


i haven't caught up totally for the last few pages.. but can we not lynch someone who just claimed?


also, where the hell is salamence

[Mantisdreamz]

also, where the hell is salamence

oh getting games mixed up. time to sleep

[Mantisdreamz]

This is Konowa's problem. Konowa feels like Konowa is trying to get gameplay506 to interact and Konowa is getting nothing in return.

Konowa feels that hiplop, Burning_Earth, and Ansuz have gone awfully quiet recently.

unvote;

For now.

kthxbye, Konowa feels that that is an accurate assessment of Mantisdreamz to this point. Konowa just did not like the early "oh gameplay506 is town" post.
gameplay506, please answer the questions that Konowa has posed to gameplay506 repeatedly now.

mantis thinks you are on the wrong track with him, konowa. you're seeing me as scummy for reading him as town.
i think your reads of the quiet ones are something you should look into

[Mantisdreamz]

Ansuz (Nacho and Desperado)
TunnelMates (notscience and bert)
Burning_Earth
hiplop

town-
HighShroomish
Konowa
Osseus pseudotripodis (t-bone and Untrod Tripod)
gameplay506
Mantisdreamz
geraintm
Kthxbye
LynxKuroneko
d3x

[Mantisdreamz]

Great, tell me about those scum reads.

no. at least not now
tell me about your scum reads ossy thing

[Mantisdreamz]

gameplay should not be lynched. lynx either

[Mantisdreamz]

Players I want more out of are Geraintm, Shroomish, and hiplop.

what about anusz? i kind of like geraintm

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe ppl can agree on a hiplop vote?

[Mantisdreamz]

Vote:hiplop

yes

UNVOTE: tm
VOTE: hiplop

also lol at gameplay calling him hilpol before

[Mantisdreamz]

TunnelMates keeps thinking of Quinoa with cranberries whenever Konowa mentions Konowa.

Kin. Wuh.

Konowa.

Kin wuh not talk in third person?

its key-no-wuh

[Mantisdreamz]

..hilpol

[Mantisdreamz]

^not gameplay.

[Mantisdreamz]

are you just clarifying that I'm not gameplay, or....

yea i just wanted to make sure everyone knew

[Mantisdreamz]

So Konowa could not remember a single post of hiplop's and so when Osseus pseudotripodis voted hiplop Konowa decided to see why.

For me its a dillemma. GP is being annoying as fuck and harmful to town, unfortunately I think hes aligned with town. Is it better to get rid of an anti-town town player (who may be scum) or a IMO better chance at a scum player? I'm going with #2 but it is difficult.

The hedging

is

quite strong in this post.

ya this makes me think that he knows gameplay will flip town

For [redacted] reasons, Konowa feels that this is par for the course for a town hiplop though. Konowa feels much better with a HighShroomish lynch.

someone pointed out one of hs's games where he was town and pretty inactive as well.

how come you unvoted gameplay here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6110550
but still pressured him?

[Mantisdreamz]

that's lynch minus one

on hip to the boppa lop

i touched my ear lop

bop bop bop

Spoiler: BERT

you guys are such clowns

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa thanks gameplay506 for at least acknowledging Konowa.

Vote: HighShroomish

i'm not so sure i like this vote, that came right after oss's

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: tunnel mates

[Mantisdreamz]

[quote="In post 661, TunnelMates"]VOTE: Ansuz
^i was considering going there as well.. before i voted you

hmm

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: Ansuz

^i was considering going there as well.. before i voted you

hmm

should look like that^

[Mantisdreamz]

(1) Ansuz knows that lurking/lack of effort aren't scumtells.

(2) Nacho didn't gauge much about how reactionary hiplop's posts were in its entirety. Instead, he plays it cool with "gee, this wagon is fucking gorgeous." The more he raved about it, the more fog goes into our minds. So, tldr I don't see how he got that read to put hiplop away with purpose.

???
now why did you hammer?

But it won't be MY vote hammering, that's for sure.

Why? You still think that he's scum.
You agree nothing that he's done looks mildly townish.
Are you just afraid to hammer? I can unvote if that's the case.

Now look at this flagrant appeasing on FULL display!

A: I can help you by unvoting.

B: Wait, why did you hammer? what kind of mangling is this

though, it could be read like:

now

why did you hammer

[Mantisdreamz]

Vote:Mantis

this makes me sad dex

[Mantisdreamz]

hmm, ffery, i was quoting tm's vote on ansuz, and actually voting tm. but actually, i'll keep it there for now. (on ansuz)

[Mantisdreamz]

Vote:Mantis

Blindly sheeping this awesome awesome guy. (would still love to know the reasoning for it though...)

VOTE: Mantis

....sorry Mantis. I still <3 you

</3

i'm not scum tho!


my sus list:
highshroomish
konowa
burning earth
ansuz

(maybe tunnel)

osse and lynx seem to have attention.. i think they are both town.
as well as you and dex, and gp and geraintm

[Mantisdreamz]

mantis is your scumread on us dissipating because you know that if we jump on your wagon, that you'll be the frontrunner to jump into death candyland?

u dancing delicate waltzing u

i have no concerns of this sort, berty. actually.. it's cause i like your push on ansuz.

[Mantisdreamz]

Though I'm seeing Ansuz pop up already, today. He's another player that raised eyebrows in day 1, especially near the end. Will have to read again!

Go, town!

i hope you dont keep cheering town on like this, it just sows seeds of distrust about you

lol. aww don't be a stick in the mud

[Mantisdreamz]

So angry.

you mean, so angry -> with a brush of sarcasm


---
i don't like konowa's vote on ansuz

(sorry guys... i can make cases, eventually). but am just wanting to get firmer views

[Mantisdreamz]

huh? what's a pow wow?

[Mantisdreamz]

lol.

[Mantisdreamz]

you realizeim not reading you as scum, right oss?

[Mantisdreamz]

so no pow wows to be had here with you, on my part

[Mantisdreamz]

Ok osseuos , Lynx, BE. Decide people. I want them dead/

maybe BE. but i don't trust your judgement, considering you have lynx as scum

[Mantisdreamz]

konowa seems like scum..

[Mantisdreamz]

i still think the fact he was pushing on GP.. then unvoted him before he got closure, was very ... weird.
he unvoted him, yet still pressured him.. and somewhere in the midst of this, he voted high shroomish.

[Mantisdreamz]

^konowa - scum read
ansuz - scum read as well.

hence the switch of vote from ansuz to konowa

[Mantisdreamz]

*hence the lack of switching of vote >.<

[Mantisdreamz]

konowa seems like scum..

Why?

@gameplay: You just listed two obvtown

post 730

[Mantisdreamz]

Alright, here's what I'm thinking and this certainly didn't make things better...

(sorry guys... i can make cases, eventually). but am just wanting to get firmer views

At this point in the game, the TownMantis I remember playing with is engaged. She's active. She's relevant and topical. The Mantis we're seeing here is anything but. The vast majority of her Votes seem like lulz/pressure Votes on easy {mostly Lurker} targets. She's made multiple 'I promise to do stuff' posts and yet I just don't feel the follow through.

Then there's this oddity. She was catching up and cluster posting on page 21 when her Vote for hiplop happened. It seems super manufactured and really doesn't sit well with me. In p518 she quotes p510, meaning that she's presumably read up to that part. Then she floats the idea of a hiplop Wagon in p519. Then in p520, she references my Vote on hiplop from p482, acting like she hadn't seen it before. This doesn't jive with her catchup order, though. Presumably, she'd read hiplop's p481, otherwise I'm at a loss for why she wanted to get a hiplopWagon up and running over any other Lurker.

And as previously mentioned, there's the remainder of her Votes. They just seem to lack conviction and are all 'easy' Votes. She goes back and forth over HS, but never tries to interact with him. She drops her Vote without him responding, yet doesn't reVote anyone for quite a while. In between her ReadsList in p307 and her second in p363, hiplop hasn't posted, but he's suddenly on her ScumReads {without her even mentioning him in between}.

hey dex, i haven't been too active in this game yet, because i was tied up in another game (which i just died in), so i'll be able to go on many posting sprees.. probably to the annoyance of others.

remember post, 363 of mine? i didn't have hiplop as a town read. i went and glanced at that post of mine again, but i think i've changed my mind on konowa. i'll have to iso him again to see. also, that post that i quoted of yours, where you *did* vote hiplop, that was the first time i saw it. hence the direct "yes" to you, and nothing more. because i was/am reading you as town, so was pleased to see that your vote was on him, when i had just started wondering about him.

i'm gonna iso you again too.

[Mantisdreamz]

konowa, did you talk to me yet about the gameplay vote, unvote, then pressure thing yet?

[Mantisdreamz]

well also konowa, where were you at last day? yes, there is not a whole lot of new analysis. but what about the hiplop wagon? do you see scum on it?

[Mantisdreamz]

to clarify: i don't like that you were all on gameplay being scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6094964
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6101136
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6104358


you say HS, leaning town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6106625

asking gameplay to answer him:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6107343


still not liking that gameplay has answered him:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6109752


yet unvotes him:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6110550

no mention of HS, since he called him leaning town, yet votes him, and still pressures GP:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6113365

....why??

that's what i am asking you about konowa.

not to mention, i think GP is town, so didn't so much like your push on him.
where are you at now with him?

[Mantisdreamz]

why unvote GP, and still pressure him? and then vote who you have stated is a leaning town read?

even if you're not scum, i'm honestly curious to what was going on here

[Mantisdreamz]

why did you unvote him before he acknowledged your questions to him?

[Mantisdreamz]

I read my prod today and I was like :fuck i better post" and now i'm posting so fucking come at me

well, what are your reads?

[Mantisdreamz]

why did you unvote him before he acknowledged your questions to

him

?

*you

[Mantisdreamz]

^nvm that post >.>

[Mantisdreamz]

konowa.

[Mantisdreamz]

quinoa..

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa will get to the spaz of posts from Ansuz in a second, but Konowa believes that Konowa has already answered Mantisdreamz's questions in a previous post. Konowa believes that post #550 will give Mantisdreamz answers to Mantisdreamz questions.

Spoiler:

Inactivity has little to do with why Konowa wants to lynch HighShroomish.

So we have two people who decide to call everyone on their wagon scum in one game. Nice.

This post preceded both Osseus pseudotripodis and Konowa's vote. Konowa agreed with Osseus pseudotripodis's post #389. Between post #231, where it appears that HighShroomish is reading gameplay506 as town, and the above generalization of scumminess without drawing any conclusions, Konowa felt that that was enough to vote for HighShroomish. Does Mantisdreamz disagree with the reasoning behind the vote or the vote itself?

Konowa unvoted gameplay506 to see if giving gameplay506 a little bit of rope would help gameplay506 contribute without constant threat of a lynch. Alas, it has not.

i know you wrapped up your answer in a nice little package via post 550. but i dunno if i would consider that post of HS's enough, post 338: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6113318, for a vote. seems like sarcasm (on HS's part, to an extent)

i do think oss is town.. even though i don't agree with his vote there. but you followed him.

[Mantisdreamz]

even though you were still pressuring GP.

[Mantisdreamz]

in other news gerain is still not town

maybe ya

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: ansuz

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: gertaintm

[Mantisdreamz]

remember post, 363 of mine? i didn't have hiplop as a town read.

I'm not following you. I'm saying that in your 2 ReadsLists, hiplop had gone from Not Scum to Scum without posting or getting mentioned by you. I'd like to know what changed your mind.

those were my gut reads at the time. cause i like to look for town first, then do a PoE type thing. i don't remember exactly what i was thinking, but pretty sure i iso'ed hiplop and decided that he didn't belong in the town pile.

also, UNVOTE: geraintm

[Mantisdreamz]

ansuz, what are your thoughts on konowa?

[Mantisdreamz]

i've actually got quite a few town reads...
the only ones really standing out to me are konowa & ansuz, as scum

highshroomish can't be read.

and i just iso'ed burning earth.. he kind of seems like non caring town.

Spoiler:

And I still don't care!

but i actually like how he changes his mind on lynx and gameplay

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: gertaintm

deer in headlights

Spoiler:

[Mantisdreamz]

gonna iso osseus, cause i guess he's more in the null to townish pile for me.

i think gameplay, lynx, kthx, d3x, and geraintm (sorry for voting you, it was more of a pressure vote) are town

tunnel mates will go in the clown pile .. i think they are prob most likely town though.
their push on ansuz is good

xpost. lol. well highshroomish can't be read because his iso consists of ..hold on.. 15 posts in an 840 (give or take) post game.

i don't mind your play style.. i just think some of your actions have been scummy

[Mantisdreamz]

how do you read highshroomish?

[Mantisdreamz]

err.. an 862 post game

[Mantisdreamz]

kthxbye claiming hider who hid behind d3x solidifies townreads on both of the slots. Konowa thinks that kthxbye should also consider hiding behind geraintm depending on replacement of gameplay506 slot.

For Konowa just through POE scum has to be in {Ansuz, TunnelMates, Mantisdreamz, HighShroomish, Burning_Earth}.
geraintm is left outside this list temporarily due to claim/possible confirmation from hider.
Bert's apathy seems to match that of a recently completed game where Bert was town.
Konowa doesn't remember anything of Burning_Earth's play at all?

then how come you have bert/tunnelmates as scum?

[Mantisdreamz]

wouldn't you be more be more on the fence?

[Mantisdreamz]

Why are you scumreading ansuz mantis

beforehand because of what geraintm said as well... they made a bunch of posts that asked good logical questions, yes, but didn't really say a lot of their own opinion. until this post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6102488

he then went on a posting spree on friday night, which made me re-consider.

but then, i'm looking at his burning earth vote right now, and am not liking it.

so i'm back to where i started with them.
that and i think nacho usually has better reads..... (his vote on geraintm for one)... and i shouldn't talk since i placed a vote on him as well, but it really was more for pressure :/


why do you have them as scum?

[Mantisdreamz]

wat

I forgot this game was a thing for like

pages

so I'm trying to get back in

What do you mean

eh? no, i was talking to konowa in post 868

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantisdreamz read of Konowa seems more confbias/dislike of playstyle than an actual scum read. Even if HighShroomish's post #388 is sarcasm, it is still scummy for reasons outlined. Does Mantisdreamz disagree?

sorry tbh.. i didn't click all your links in post 550 to see exactly what you were talking about (laziness)
i dunno, overall i just think that he should be placed in the null category right now, as there just hasn't been enough from him.

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantisdreamz read of Konowa seems more confbias/dislike of playstyle than an actual scum read. Even if HighShroomish's post #388 is sarcasm, it is still scummy for reasons outlined. Does Mantisdreamz disagree?

sorry tbh.. i didn't click all your links in post 550 to see exactly what you were talking about (laziness)
i dunno, overall i just think that he should be placed in the null category right now, as there just hasn't been enough from him.

oh wait, i did. /derp

it's just that ya, i don't agree that HS's post was a generalized statement of scumminess

it seems as though you're going to a lot of effort to defend your vote

[Mantisdreamz]

and maybe being sticky with the read now?

[Mantisdreamz]

Apathy alone isn't enough for Konowa to POE TunnelMates.

Konowa doesn't understand this latest line of thoughts. Mantisdreamz asked about the read and Konowa replied with the why. Not going through any extra effort to defend a vote when Konowa is being questioned about it.

Konowa also doesn't understand what being sticky with the read now means?

well konowa, i was more asking you about your suspicion of gameplay:

i still think the fact he was pushing on GP.. then unvoted him before he got closure, was very ... weird.
he unvoted him, yet still pressured him.. and somewhere in the midst of this, he voted high shroomish.

^i was stating that you voted HS, more in passing. the main thing i wanted to know was why you unvoted GP in the first place when you still pressured him.



yes, you *did* say in post 550, that you unvoted GP in order to give him a little bit more rope (?) in the hopes that he would respond more:

Konowa unvoted gameplay506 to see if giving gameplay506 a little bit of rope would help gameplay506 contribute without constant threat of a lynch. Alas, it has not.

but that seems kind of weird to me. isn't keeping the pressure on a scum read a good thing?



the main thing is, i wasn't really asking much about your HS vote, until you brought it to my attention in post 801 in which case, i responded that it looked slightly like sarcasm on his part. that was never my main beef though.


sticky means.. you don't want to change your mind about something. scum (i think) like to be sticky with their reads because they don't want to contradict themselves. or because they feel like they can push the person to a lynch, or because it's more difficult for scum to gracefully change their views in thread (hence the contradiction thing).


..but in the meanwhile, i still feel like there's not enough to justify a scum read on HS when he's barely said anything.
and i still don't really get your reason for unvoting GP.

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa did what Mantisdreamz said specifically to see how gameplay506 would react when not under pressure. Konowa does not understand why this makes Konowa scum unless Mantisdreamz tends to believe that Konowa is scum with gameplay506, which obviously isn't the case.

i didn't say specifically that you did it to see how gameplay506 would react. i quoted you saying that. which is what i don't get. i felt that it made you scummy, because you unvoted him in the first place, yet still pressured him! ... this is getting silly

i do not believe at all that GP and you are scum. i think GP is town

Lack of posts, mutually exclusive, HighShroomis is scum. Something along those lines.
Especially when Konowa has given reasons as to why Konowa believes HighShroomish to be scum. HighShroomish asked softball questions and generalized statements without making a single stance on anything. If Mantisdreamz disagrees with reasons, Konowa is fine with that. But going "nope not enough content" is crap.

i don't know. i don't think it's crap, nor do i think that he was making generalized scummy statements. like the one that osseus voted him for, and the one that you followed oss on
this one:

So we have two people who decide to call everyone on their wagon scum in one game. Nice.

here was the rest of the sequence:

So we have two people who decide to call everyone on their wagon scum in one game. Nice.

Vote: HighShroomish

Look at that generalized statement of potentially scummy actions without having any conclusions based on those behaviors.

Konowa thanks gameplay506 for at least acknowledging Konowa.

Vote: HighShroomish

that was HS's last post too. he hasn't even been able to come around to respond. that and his post was sarcasm!!!!!

... keep in mind, i'm definitely not putting HS in the town pile. but your certainty (possible stickiness >.>) makes me wonder

[Mantisdreamz]

perhaps you are bussing and inactive scum member

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: konowa

[Mantisdreamz]

i think you are playing dumb. you know exactly what i meant

you're either being sticky with your read on him.. (ie scum going after easy lynch) OR your certainty on him (like i said) makes me wonder if you are bussing a scum partner who is doing shit.


i think you are scummy regardless of my thoughts on HS

[Mantisdreamz]

you are being sticky with your read on him over that statement of his.

[Mantisdreamz]

welcome, josh_b and thor..

thor, you are wrong with your geraintm vote

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa didn't think too much of Mantisdreamz until Mantisdreamz went from "can't read HighShroomish/Josh_B" to "certainty of Konowa's read on the slot perhaps Konowa is bussing an inactive scum member". The logic doesn't follow to Konowa.

Seems that Mantisdreamz was hedging on HighShroomish/Josh_B due to lack of posts and using Konowa's case to push Konowa as scum. Konowa understands disagreement, but it feels to Konowa that Mantisdreamz is using disagreement to say Konowa is scum?

it was your unvote of gameplay at the time you unvoted that i found odd. and then when i discovered that your reasoning was 'you wanted to give him more rope so that he might respond better without being under the threat of a lynch', i found slightly odder. and did state that isn't putting a scum read under pressure a good thing?

and the comment that i made 'perhaps you are busing an inactive scum mate' was a thought in passing.

because - like i said, someone who has few posts, it's more difficult to read their alignment. you seemed so certain that he was scum. and being that i thought you were a little scummy, is it really that much of a stretch to consider the fact that maybe you were busing? esp considering he wasn't being very useful.

and then you hopped on that, as if that was me claiming that HS was scum, in my eyes. you did see the "perhaps" part, right?

i could see how it might be misinterpreted... but still >.>

[Mantisdreamz]

thor, you are wrong with your geraintm vote

Why?

well he claimed 1-shot vig. at least he can be tested.

[Mantisdreamz]

hi d3x, let me reread over your stuff, and i can address your case

[Mantisdreamz]

Alright, here's what I'm thinking and this certainly didn't make things better...

(sorry guys... i can make cases, eventually). but am just wanting to get firmer views

At this point in the game, the TownMantis I remember playing with is engaged. She's active. She's relevant and topical. The Mantis we're seeing here is anything but. The vast majority of her Votes seem like lulz/pressure Votes on easy {mostly Lurker} targets. She's made multiple 'I promise to do stuff' posts and yet I just don't feel the follow through.

Then there's this oddity. She was catching up and cluster posting on page 21 when her Vote for hiplop happened. It seems super manufactured and really doesn't sit well with me. In p518 she quotes p510, meaning that she's presumably read up to that part. Then she floats the idea of a hiplop Wagon in p519. Then in p520, she references my Vote on hiplop from p482, acting like she hadn't seen it before. This doesn't jive with her catchup order, though. Presumably, she'd read hiplop's p481, otherwise I'm at a loss for why she wanted to get a hiplopWagon up and running over any other Lurker.

And as previously mentioned, there's the remainder of her Votes. They just seem to lack conviction and are all 'easy' Votes. She goes back and forth over HS, but never tries to interact with him. She drops her Vote without him responding, yet doesn't reVote anyone for quite a while. In between her ReadsList in p307 and her second in p363, hiplop hasn't posted, but he's suddenly on her ScumReads {without her even mentioning him in between}.

ah yes, i did respond in a roundabout way in post 746.

i did say already that i hadn't been fully engaged cause i was posting like a maniac in another game.. till i died.

but as for your 2nd paragraph.. i dunno if i can really say much other than: that's not the case. also, when i log on to a thread, i usually will read a few posts upwards on the last page, and then go back to where i left off. i really hadn't seen your vote on him before i stated interest in his lynch. also, he seemed different in this game from another game he was in.. (won't say much about that).

3rd paragraph - yes, this is true. the HS votes seem to lack conviction because they *did*. it was a throw out vote because i wasn't paying proper attention. and then at one point, i unvoted him, i think stating that even i thought the vote, myself, was useless. i placed the vote back on him as a sheep of kthx. cause i thought kthx was town. is town.

i also mentioned just recently that i iso'ed hiplop and came to the conclusion that he shouldn't be in my town list.


don't be a dork, and stop reading me as scum, d3x!

ps - i don't really get kthx's claim, but i still think he is prob town.

cause kthx, what did the claim prove? you were already seen as town (i think)


pps- oh, the vote that i did have conviction on was that of the one on ansuz. and of tunnel as well.. but i dunno, i think they're townish-y now

i like my konowa vote too for now. what are your thoughts on him?

[Mantisdreamz]

Hi Mantis! I just got the baby up from his nap, so I'll pry not be able to fully engage.

I love you. I'm sorry. I still think you're scummy and the VCA isn't really helping that situation. I may resume Voting you again soon. Tell me why I shouldn't.

you shouldn't because you don't want to be a dork


hi baby dex btw

[Mantisdreamz]

well, for real though, if you still think i'm scummy, even though i'm engaged now.. then vote. i really was just not into it at first.

[Mantisdreamz]

it was your unvote of gameplay at the time you unvoted that i found odd. and then when i discovered that your reasoning was 'you wanted to give him more rope so that he might respond better without being under the threat of a lynch', i found slightly odder. and did state that isn't putting a scum read under pressure a good thing?

Responded to everything else already, and Konowa feels that Konowa has already tried to explain this as well but will try again.

gameplay506 went into straight troll mode when gameplay506 was run up. Konowa wanted reads from gameplay506 but gameplay506 was pretty much saying "screw off". So, Konowa decided that if the threat of a lynch was removed but pressure was still applied gameplay506 would actually do something. As Konowa said D1, it didn't do anything. Now Konowa said this earlier as well, this line of logic you are pushing: Why would Konowa put pressure on gameplay506 but unvote gameplay506 makes it seem as if Mantisdreamz thinks that Konowa is attempting some sort of distancing from gameplay506. If this is the case then as Konowa said earlier this line of logic only makes sense if Mantisdreamz thinks the gameplay506/Thor665 slot is scum, but Mantisdreamz doesn't. Hence why Konowa doesn't understand why this line of logic is being pushed.

Thor665, is this what Thor665 means possibly by your earlier question?

no, i never thought you were distancing from gameplay. i was wondering what you meant when you mentioned that earlier. i just thought it was odd that you unvoted him.. but ok. see this is a better explanation than 'just wanted to give him more rope' cause you are making it apparent that it was cause you thought he was becoming more and more of a troll.

but ya - no, i don't know why you thought that i was implying that you were distancing. i never said anything like that.

can you refresh my memory... when did you drop your scum read of GP? or did you?

[Mantisdreamz]

either way. it was just acknowledging his son cause he mentioned him

[Mantisdreamz]

^off the top of my head, i think BE looks fine. i tried catching up from my (shitty) phone last night and saw his posts and liked.
konowa - i will get to you on josh_b.
maybe there was a misunderstanding with us, all based on not understanding each other properly.
you thought i was insinuating that you and gp were scum.. where, that was never the case for me.

UNVOTE: konowa

will post after work

[Mantisdreamz]

i don't want off the top of your head, i want you to bring him in focus for once

>.> no. and btw the post where i said BE looked like he was non caring town: i linked his post because i thought it was humourous. i didn't have him as non caring town at the time, simply because he posted that.

[Mantisdreamz]

i read his posts last night (wasn't able to respond to them tho), and i liked them. there's not much more focus i can do there

[Mantisdreamz]

OK, I'm catching up. I'm mostly going to be typing stuff as I go along, but keep in mind my reads up to this point are based on every that has happened up to this point, not as it was happening like most of you. Thank you kthx for the link to your reads. I'm glad to know that you and D3x are confirmed town. It's not like either of you needed it though.
Well d3x might have needed it a little, he spent most of the DP camped on the hiplop wagon while sidelining other reads.

Up to post 140 Lynx's Reads, I feel like I'm just reading a game to be reading it. A lot of town,town, town. -Except Burning Earth, who seems to be challenging others on their reads, but not actually coming up with his own.
Anyways, Lynx gives out his top three scum reads, My slot, Burning Earth, and Tunnelmates. Does he change his vote from D3x? No he doesn't. So in post 141 when Gameplay points this out, GP jumps to the top of my town list. Heck even GP has a lower scum read than d3x. Lynx says he pretty much "forgot to vote," I don't buy it, I think Lynx was looking for an empty way to lynch town.

I don't like Konowa's post 152, 211seems like a defense of Lynx, which starts a tunneling on Gameplay.

If the other townies feel that HighShroomish (or anyone else on my scum radar) are stronger reads at this point, then we shall discuss why and vote accordingly.

- proves my suspicion of Lynx is justified. Then 238 same thing.

I don't like gerantum. I can't understand his lock on Konawa being town.

Konowa, why are claiming to have forgotten that Burning Earth is in this game when you asked other players to explain their scum read on Burning Earth specifically?

Post 690 Mantis let's me know that I'm not reading this game by myself. I'm not sure about tunnelmates, or about ansuz. Lazy inactive High Shromish, is wrong but I can understand it. And Lynx isn't on this list.

And Kthx, wait for it.. My avatar is now cooler and better than yours. Ok, it's not. Because I don't know how to resize this image.

hmm indeed.

[Mantisdreamz]

ansuz, what are your thoughts on konowa?

I think that Konowa looks town. I'd describe him as "active" and "aggressive", which are points that I normally don't use to describe him in general but even less so when he's scum. In particular, this post looks like the "not caring town" you seem to have magically found in BE because it comes after a lot of patient digging and prodding found in #86 and #270.

there was no magic

and i just iso'ed burning earth.. he kind of seems like non caring town.

How does saying "and I still don't care?" translate to noncaring town? Is it just town because he claims not to care?

no for christsakes. i inserted that quote of his, to re-iterate what i already thought about him.. he obv looks like he's phone texting. how much can he really do. and the stuff he has done.. ie. suspicion on you.. i like and get it.

[Mantisdreamz]

and if you thought that i magically conjured something.. why are you not pushing on me?

[Mantisdreamz]

that and i think nacho usually has better reads..... (his vote on geraintm for one)... and i shouldn't talk since i placed a vote on him as well, but it really was more for pressure :/

I don't think I was wrong with geraintm, but we can open that discussion tomorrow when his vig somehow doesn't go through and he somehow doesn't have it anymore.

i think it will go through.

[Mantisdreamz]

Still available for sheeping, but, yeah, if no one else knows what the hell they're doing they should sheep me.

BE vote is pretty straightforward: the only wagon that he's shown any resistance or dislike towards is Lynx's for some unexplainable reason, he hasn't put any thought into any of his actions and is generally happy contradicting previous positions for little or no reason (and somehow coincidentally sees scumminess in the flavor of the day whenever the wagon builds up, but not a moment beforehand and not a moment after).

Sheep.
If you need to be talked through the vote, let me know because my horoscope says I'm feeling extra helpful today so I'm more than willing to hold your hand through this the entire way.

it's cause lynx is probably town. do not sheep, thor

[Mantisdreamz]

you seemed so certain that he was scum.

This part is generally the part that confuses me.
He seemed to hold conviction over one thing HighShroomish said being scummy, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a strong conviction of HighShroomish being scum as you're saying it did, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

he seemed pretty certain to me that he thought he was scum. i have since changed my view a little on this.. it did seem like he was defending his vote a little too much on HS, while i was asking him about GP in the meantime. but i kinda think there might have been a misunderstanding which led to silliness. ie... me getting defensive towards him and vice versa. i dunno.. i guess he thought i was attacking his HS vote... so it made him want to explain further on why he voted him. which.. in turn looked weird to me, cause i wasn't asking about his HS vote in the first place.

as of right now, i don't have konowa as a high scum read anymore. he might have something with josh_b, in fact

[Mantisdreamz]

Yeah sheep us instead Thorey man

you know someone's bound to jump on this post^

[Mantisdreamz]

can you refresh my memory... when did you drop your scum read of GP? or did you?

gameplay506 fell into the "null, hopefully gameplay506 gets shot category so Konowa wouldn't have to think about gameplay506" during Night. Konowa felt that Konowa spent too much of D1 in a tunnel and decided to ignore gameplay506 as discussion with gameplay506 was going nowhere. Konowa still isn't getting overwhelmingly Town vibes from Thor665 either, but that might be due to paranoia. Konowa thinks that kthxbye should still target Thor665 with kthxbye's hider action.

I think that Konowa looks town.

I'd describe him as "active" and "aggressive", which are points that I normally don't use to describe him in general but even less so when he's scum.

In particular, this post looks like the "not caring town" you seem to have magically found in BE because it comes after a lot of patient digging and prodding found in #86 and #270.

Curiosity piqued.
Ansuz, is a Nacho/Desperado hydra? Yes? When has Konowa played with either of these heads?

if desp has posted! .. i see no sign of desp-town so far

[Mantisdreamz]

Yeah sheep us instead Thorey man

you know someone's bound to jump on this post^

Yes and it shall be bullshit because of my role PM

just trying to put that out there before someone does try

[Mantisdreamz]

Thanks ansuz, That's better for now. Lynx, I'm catching up on the game. It wasn't targeted at you specifically.
I read your justification. I even described what I didn't like about your post in the first place. There's a problem that I can't understand and as much as you explain it to me, I probably still won't understand. It seems like you are trying to protect someone.
It isn't me, Gameplay called you out on it immediately(I would have if I had been here), so it isn't him, is it tunnel mates or burning earth?

It also doesn't make sense why Osseyus was so high on your list.
Osseyus is more likely to be scum because he's defending you, not town. Town mostly eat popcorn, rather than get involved in other people's nonsense. I see that you vote your top town read at the start of DP2,http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6131538
That's questionable don't you think?

VOTE: Lynx

what!! it's the scum that likes to eat the popcorn, while town eats itself apart normally :p

[Mantisdreamz]

I feel like I should ask this, particularly to kthx and mantisdreamz. What were your cases for Highshroomish as scum?

After post 135 people calling HS scum just kind of seemed to take off. He didn't explain himself very well, he didn't even try. I come in, and I see that yea lynx is probably scum, but I'm trying to explain it more. I guess, I'm not doing a very good job of it.
I'm going to vote BE too. He was my first scum read in the game. But not until I get this issue resolved with Konowa.

i had no case for HS as scum! there wasn't enough said on his part.

why was BE your first scum read?

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa would like Mantisdreamz thoughts on Josh_B.

konowa, so far. i do not like.

i am not liking the push on lynx. i also think ansuz is scum

[Mantisdreamz]

oh.. HS vote was a pressure vote. @ josh

[Mantisdreamz]

Yes and it shall be bullshit because of my role PM

You're role pm? seriously? You don't have to like to kick it. -or mock me.

i do not understand, either.

like to kick it?
mock you?

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: ansuz

i would also vote josh

[Mantisdreamz]

i think scum are: ansuz, josh and osseus

[Mantisdreamz]

mantisdreamz would like to know konowa's thought on the above players^

though i know you think josh is scummy, hence your vote.. what about the others?

[Mantisdreamz]

come on gera..

[Mantisdreamz]

come on gera..

re post 1053

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: ansuz

i would also vote josh

VOTE: ansuz

It achieves my aims equally as well as voting for ozzy.

mm hmm. i think everyone else is town, other than those 3. i do have reservations on tunnel, slightly. but i kinda like those 3 for scum


xpost oh. yea maybe.. but it did seem sort of obvious that he was being plain up front

[Mantisdreamz]

i do really think ansuz will flip as scum. if that's desp and nacho... come on. they are normally obv town. and i'm not trying to make excuses... just i haven't seen a hint of towny-ness from them

[Mantisdreamz]

Yeah ansuz is my strongest scumread.

mine too. and i wish i hadn't of voted gera to make him go into claim mode.. but w/e i guess.

it's gotta be ansuz, josh, and maybe osseus/tunnel??


what are your thoughts on oss and TM? <- cause those are the ones i am a little iffy on

[Mantisdreamz]

or both

[Mantisdreamz]

i see what you are saying tho.
but it also could be that scum don't have the proper opportunity to do so

[Mantisdreamz]

i do really think ansuz will flip as scum. if that's desp and nacho... come on. they are normally obv town. and i'm not trying to make excuses... just i haven't seen a hint of towny-ness from them

and you've been willfully ignoring it

willfully ignoring your towniness? i can't ignore something i don't see..

i think BE is town

and that's the thing again.. your choice of wording. if you think it's willful.. wouldn't you think it's scummy?

[Mantisdreamz]

oh.. HS vote was a pressure vote. @ josh

seems like it to me.

well.. i said that cause i was responding to:

I feel like I should ask this, particularly to kthx and mantisdreamz. What were your cases for Highshroomish as scum?

hmm


i guess my response wasn't very clear. i didn't have him as hugely scummish. just thought that pressure would be good.. and when i saw kthx voting him, i thought i would join along in the pressure applying

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa is going to be busy over the weekend due to Labor Day festivities. Konowa will try and sneak in some posting later tonight.

mantisdreamz wishes to be celebrating the labour day festivities, but alas.. work.

In reference to Mantisdreamz question in post #1052 just off top of head, Osseus pseudotripodis is town and Ansuz is null leaning scum.

What are the reasons for these two being scum? Konowa will have to go back and look as to why Konowa thought Ansuz was scum at the beginning of the Day.

mostly PoE. i *did* actually have oss as town at one point. but i do, like i said, kinda think there may have been a misunderstanding with us, so i don't really have you as scummy anymore. hence the shifting of read piles. let me give you a proper answer in a bit about ansuz, specifically.

[Mantisdreamz]

@Tunnel - I have no idea where you're coming from or what your goals are in this game. Is that intentional? Let me know, I could always...(wait for it)...tunnel you.

We're in a prolonged IRL lull/slump that has nothing to do with mafia in general. You can tunnel, but to tell the truth all of our inactivity is null in the grand scheme of things. Easy to lynch, yes. Up to you. If you're hard-headed and stubborn enough to try and get us lynched, you can probably get it done. All comes down to your agenda.

i like this post

[Mantisdreamz]

My agenda is to create a situation wherein I look to stand the most chance of winning the game.
If you're town than your lack of...well, anything is not very beneficial to me.
Why are you still in the game if you admit you're not really *in* the game?

tbf he never admitted he wasn't in the game.. you said that.
they said they still are. having feelings about a person being scum, in their case.. they said ansuz. is just enough (imo) as having a fully stated case

[Mantisdreamz]

Josh seems pretty town. I modded a game which he was scum in, and I feel this is more townish by far.

On a side note, I don't really have a preference for who kthxbye hides behind. I don't see anything wrong with attempting to clear Thor. It's also the least risky way to try to clear, right? Since gameplay (thor's predecessor) said his kill doesn't resolve that night or something.

i'm gonna take your word on that. cause maybe his posts aren't really as bad as i thought. (just looking at his recent ones around this post)

[Mantisdreamz]

i think scum are: ansuz, josh and osseus

edit: ansuz, oss and thor


i thought gp was town.. and that thor would be replacing into a town slot. but actually thor has made the slot seem worse.
i like kthx and d3x as town (that's a given). but also, geraintm, BE and tunnel as well. (konowa as well, i think.. but not super strong yet)

i do not like thor's push on tunnel, stating 'give reasons or i put you as not in the game' sorry thor, seems bullyish. yea i get it.. town are supposed to back their reads and such. but they clearly stated that they're behind. looks like maybe you're taking advantage of that.

i also did not like the back and forth with thor and gera.

cause i really think gera is town.. and what i'm seeing is thor pressing and pressing.

for example:

@Gera - actually, looking at what you just said, and your votes. Please explain how Shroom is, at best, your third scumspect considering your case on Ozzy.
That appears to totally lack logic.

I have Ansuz and ozzy as my top two scum, by definition highshroom can at best be third
And he was absent for so much of the game it was hard to get a read on him, he simply didn't post enough to rise to the top of any scum lists of mine. The advantages of lurking

^that seemed like a pretty acceptable answer to me. if you're going by poe.. what's so wrong with having the guy who never posted enough as possible scum, if you're town reading others? it's pretty much how i felt as well in regards to the HS slot.

and then you asked him "is that really the extent of your reasoning?"

^what is wrong with that reasoning??

[Mantisdreamz]

@Kthx- I'm not sure why you would choose Thor over someone that's high on your ScumList. Verifying Town is fine, but eliminating Scum {or clearing them} is optimal, imo. A Cop result on Town is decent, but a Cop result on Scum is freaking awesome. Think of it this way, if you Hide behind Scum and die, you've outted Scum, proven your Claim, and thus 100% cleared me. If you Hide behind a Scum suspect and live, you've cleared an easy MisLynch for us. If the Scum Team then decides to off them b/c they're cleared... well, easy MisLynches usually aren't that helpful anyway. And you're still around.

I'm town reading Thor atm. That combined with ^that.... I think Lynx is the more a scum suspect flying under the radar. I'll hide behind him tonight me thinks. That's assuming of course that we aren't stupid today and we lynch BE. I'll hide behind BE if he isn't lynched today.

recap:
If we lynch BE, I hide behind Lynx.
If we lynch *other*, I'll hide behind BE.

If I'm dead tomorrow and either isn't, they are scum.
If I'm alive tomorrow, then they are cleared town and scum did something weird at night.
If we both die, meh, one worthless/easy mislynch townie out the way and d3x is still cleared.

if we lynch BE though, it will be a mislynch

[Mantisdreamz]

how/why are you town reading thor?
and trust me, i thought GP was town myself.
thor.. no

[Mantisdreamz]

welll

:/

[Mantisdreamz]

@Kthx - if we do lynch Lynx, and he flips scum, I would say hide behind B_E - he's suspected enough that even if he is town trying to force scum to shoot him would be optimal, also if they don't shoot him we clear him, which is also obnoxious for scum.

If he flips town I would, personally, vote for a Konowa hide - but that's because I don't think I'll be able to get much traction on that wagon without a result. Also, if you can clear him it makes my sanity better - because I'm going to tunnel the hell out of that derp posting restriction I can assure you.

he even put a clue in thread about being loved again by the gods after making his slip. i dunno, i believe his restiction.. what purpose would he have as scum to fake a posting restriction? it's not like people are going to think, oh since he has a restriction, he must be town.

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa is done with this Day otherwise.

:/

[Mantisdreamz]

I just don't see why this certain Post Restriction is important or applies to alignment, that's all.

And thanks for clarifying Kthx's role's purpose. Its like a Cop who takes risks, then (assuming we're agreeing that is his role).

Since you're all for his role, and people don't seem to question it, hide away, Kthx. I've nothing to hide

Or Konowa wasn't around. Of course roles are based on runes, but why would Fehu be Vanilla? See where Konowa is going with this? Thor665 is working really hard on some outguessing the mod. Konowa has no flavor knowledge of why, nor does it say why in Konowa's role, Wunjo representing over the top joy, comfort, pleasure, fellowship, harmony, and prosperity would not be able to use pronouns. Konowa knows that Konowa's role is confirmable, hi! Konowa is Loved (Lynch+1) as long as Konowa doesn't use pronouns, so Konowa could care less that Thor665 doesn't believe Konowa's restriction. Run Konowa up Today to a normal lynch, seven votes and Konowa won't be lynched.

unvote;
Vote: Konowa

maybe the rune being representative of harmony, implies lack of judgement.. hence the no pronoun thing


konowa, don't vote yourself


i have played one of ffery's rune games in the past. i'm a little curious now to what role she used for wunjo. actually, it was pretty fun - because she made alt accounts with the name of runes being the user name, and gave each of us the pw to each account. so we posted under the rune names. it was interesting trying to figure out who was who. another thanks (belated) for that ffery. i'll go check to see

[Mantisdreamz]

so tiwaz reversed had the posting restriction in that game. tiwaz reversed representing trouble in communicating, for one

the wunjo role in that game was wunjo reversed representing rage and frenzy.. and the role for it was 2 shot vig

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe the rune being representative of harmony, implies lack of judgement.. hence the no pronoun thing

How does lack of judgement equate to lack of pronouns? I wasn't aware pronouns were pre/post-judging in some manner.

do you remember that whole thing a bit ago.. with using xe, xym, xer... gender neutral pronouns. supposed to be that you use them on forums, when talking to someone else, in order to negate whether or not you are talking to a male or female. it was pretty silly. iow you couldn't use he/she

but the whole thing was put into place to imply that the person shouldn't be judged on their sex... well, i think it was one of the reasons at least.


hey i dunno, it popped in my mind as a possible reason

[Mantisdreamz]

he even put a clue in thread about being loved again by the gods after making his slip. i dunno, i believe his restiction.. what purpose would he have as scum to fake a posting restriction? it's not like people are going to think, oh since he has a restriction, he must be town.

I have some theories.
Also, just as a hint - yes, people have been townreading him for the posting restriction.
Anyone who can describe another reason why I should think he is town are certainly welcome to expound upon it at any time.

i have to double check.. but i really don't think people have been reading him as town simply for his post restriction. i know others have said "konowa is town" but i do not recall any mentions of it being due to his post restriction.

i don't like that you are so focused on this

[Mantisdreamz]

Why on earth are you picking a fight about posting restrictions?

I have explained my reasoning twice already - what part of my reasoning confuses you? Let me know that and I'll explain further - otherwise my answer is 'go read my explanations already made'.

so tiwaz reversed had the posting restriction in that game. tiwaz reversed representing trouble in communicating, for one

the wunjo role in that game was wunjo reversed representing rage and frenzy.. and the role for it was 2 shot vig

Link to the game?
Also - what are you arguing here? You appear to be saying stuff without offering conclusions.

i don't have conclusions, Thor. i said i was interested in looking up what she had wunjo as in the other game. the most i can offer as a conclusion, was that she indeed did have a role in that game with a posting restriction. so it's not like it's not something she is not prone to do.

http://talkrational.org/showthread.php?t=61315

^last day of the game

[Mantisdreamz]

he even put a clue in thread about being loved again by the gods after making his slip. i dunno, i believe his restiction.. what purpose would he have as scum to fake a posting restriction? it's not like people are going to think, oh since he has a restriction, he must be town.

I have some theories.
Also, just as a hint - yes, people have been townreading him for the posting restriction.
Anyone who can describe another reason why I should think he is town are certainly welcome to expound upon it at any time.

i doubt there's going to be a mass stepping up on others parts to write a story on why they think konowa is town for your sake.

if you are scum, you would probably use that fact to your advantage

[Mantisdreamz]

i mean, you have him as scum.. because you don't believe his post restriction. any other reason?

[Mantisdreamz]

Why on earth are you picking a fight about posting restrictions?

I have explained my reasoning twice already - what part of my reasoning confuses you? Let me know that and I'll explain further - otherwise my answer is 'go read my explanations already made'.

you called it skeevy. a couple of times. and you said you didn't understand how it could fit into the game with his claim.

why are you focused on this little tidbit so much and blowing it out of proportion?


who do you have as town thor?

[Mantisdreamz]

i don't like that you are so focused on this

I don't like that you're so dismissive of it - as long as we're stating empty opinions.
It's not like I'm focused on it to the *exclusion* of other things - so your complaint is pretty empty here.

yea but you are. that and have switched your vote like mad. please tell me how it is an empty opinion for me to state that i think you are focusing too much on it.

you can't just stay stuff and have people believe it is true at the drop of the hat. ya you have an appearance of conviction, but that's it. what, the harder you push on something, the more it makes it true?

[Mantisdreamz]

Really don't think this is TownThor665.

agree

still have to respond to his 1191

[Mantisdreamz]

yea but you are. that and have switched your vote like mad. please tell me how it is an empty opinion for me to state that i think you are focusing too much on it.

Please describe how you have complained about me attacking three different people (Ger, Tunnel, and Konowa) and how that translates to me being too focused on one of them?
This also ignores stuff I've done or said about at least three other people.
Since I have replaced in, I would say it is easy to say that I have talked about 500% more people than you have...derp-da-doo, Mollie.

Also, you're complaining about me vote switching "like mad"?
Learn2play.

i said you were too focused on the konowa posting restriction. why have you warped this into being about ger, tunnel? i said that i disliked you being so focused on konowa and his pr

yea. i am complaining about you switching votes like mad because it seems as though you have no real target. just switching amongst ppl at ease as if you don't really care. that's why i asked you who your town reads were. you seem to be flinging mud at just about everyone.. and have failed to say who you actually think is town.

[Mantisdreamz]

I believe Konowa is town, I don't care about his PR, I think he's been playing a town game. I'm thinking about Ansuz and Lynx currently. Someone at some point this weekend made the comment "Nacho and Desp wouldn't do" whatever it is that they are doing and it stuck with me. Lynx continues to pepper himself with scummy things. Rolefishing to begin the day, a complete 180 on his reads, and the Hider thing (like any scumteam in their right mind would kill him at this point).

Unfortunately Ger has a confirmable role, even if he's threatening to make a scumkill with it. If he kills us that's fine, it's on him. I could go back and forth on it, but the fact is we've played a pretty transparent town game, and the crutch of his reads are shit. Yes Ger, optimally you should have killed GP Night 1, OPTIMALLY is the key word. You didn't, and there's nothing I can do about it. Asking for an optimal kill doesn't make me scum, it makes you a bad Vig. But I digress if you're gonna kill me that's your problem, not mine.

Getting back to Ansuz for a moment, what gives me pause is the composition of his wagon (Ansuz (4): Mantisdreamz, geraintm, Burning_Earth, TunnelMates), which is composed of players I don't particularly trust. (IE Ger, BE, and TM, I think Lynx was here at one point too).

Re: Josh, I think he falls into the same category that Hiplop did on Day 1, we're essentially going down the same road. Josh certainly isn't my top scumread.

I'd like to lynch one of Lynx, Ansuz, or Ger today (pipe dream). Maybe BE or TM too, as I don't get overwhelming townvibes from them. Honestly I don't get town vibes from a lot of players except Kthx, d3x, and Konowa.

Vote: Lynx

Optimal lynch in my opinion.

maybe i'm a little jaded.. but this post seems like bs to me.
ffs, you say you have ansuz in the wanting to lynch category, and that you don't like the players on his bw? yet you vote lynx..someone who isn't on the ansuz bw. wtf?

what is your purpose for wanting to lynch lynx over ansuz?
or as well, what is the purpose of not voting the ones that you don't trust?

(i'll be honest).. i flat out think that you and ansuz are scum.. and this is you trying to put a a bit of suspicion on ansuz, but in the meantime voting lynx (town)

[Mantisdreamz]

I'll be on in an hour or so and my top priority will be catching up fully over the last weekish of the game. If anyone has any specific questions they'd like answers to, post them now and I'll make sure to include them in my catch up. I saw Kthx ask me some stuff ^, so that'll be in there.

you better make your catch up good!!! .. ^-^

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis - when you complain that I am attacking Player A, then complain I'm attacking Player B,a nd then complain that I'm too focused on Player C...yeah, i think it's valid to point out that you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

what are you taking about. the only thing i complained about was you going on and on about konowa's pr. you were the one that brought the idea of other ppl somehow being in the mix

k. what i said was.. i did not like your thing on tunnel. i also said i did not like your back and forth with gera. how this somehow translates to me talking out of both sides of my mouth is beyond me.

should i just not play the game then, being that it offends you somehow, that i have opinions about your attacks ?

esp on ppl that i think are town?

[Mantisdreamz]

Doesn't matter at this point, there is at least two D2 so I will force it at this point and say third there just to clear this entire situation up.

unvote;
Vote: Konowa

To make sure vote change occurs after third slip.

konowa, please don't .

remove the vote (pls)

[Mantisdreamz]

Frankly, I dislike Josh's p1010 very much. The end relating to Konowa blatantly ignores that literally

hundreds

of posts occurred in between those 3 quoted posts.

oh ya

Josh's p1028 is also really gross. There are legitimate questions being posed to his strange posts/phrasing and he jumps to the old "why did you find my predecessor scummy?".

i remember not liking his response to my response to his question. i said that my vote on HS was a pressure vote. and he replied back "seems like it"

..if it seemed like it, why did he make that question to me (and kthx). i dunno, was a little odd i thought.

I'm feeling ScumMantis less.

that's good

[Mantisdreamz]

I mean you just used two scum-tactic staples in this post. "lol why didn't you vote EVERYONE instead!" and "you're reading everyone as scum" when A) I can only vote one player and B) when I say I don't trust players it's not that I'm implicitly reading them as scum but because I don't trust their reads. Let's not try to lump in the implication that I'm just vanity reading Ansuz as scum. The reasons I have him in the scum category are completely independent from the reasons I am voting Lynx.

ok. what are the different reasons?

[Mantisdreamz]

Why aren't you trying to convince me Ansuz is scum?

it probably didn't occur to me cause at the time i was paranoid about you. i'm still catching up the last few pages so i dunno. also, why would i convince you specifically? i have said my thoughts on ansz in general.

[Mantisdreamz]

Well Lynx, you just made me think you may be town after all after ^that.

Guess that means Mantis should be cleared or condemned. Too quiet girlfriend and it's making me paranoid. I shall confirm you if you are town or condemn you with my death and not yours. Not like you are posting much in this game anyway...

just want to respond to this quickly. it's cause i've been working a shit ton sooo tired no rest for the wicked

[Mantisdreamz]

feebs, etc.

Konowa would be placing a vote on Josh_B here if Konowa had a vote.

alright at this point in reading, i'm thinking that maybe josh is a good vote. i like konowa for town, d3x is obvtown (and he made a good point with josh's post where he quotes konowa in the span of ~500 posts where he changed his mind on hilpol. which, not really a big deal.

...maybe thor is alright too... just thor it was your insistence that you shall be tunneling konowa's post restriction all game long and making such a fuss, that looked pretty iffy
^(mentioned thor, cause he is also on josh up to this post as well)

[Mantisdreamz]

it probably didn't occur to me cause at the time i was paranoid about you. i'm still catching up the last few pages so i dunno. also, why would i convince you specifically? i have said my thoughts on ansz in general.

[Mantisdreamz]

feebs, etc.

Konowa would be placing a vote on Josh_B here if Konowa had a vote.

alright at this point in reading, i'm thinking that maybe josh is a good vote. i like konowa for town, d3x is obvtown (and he made a good point with josh's post where he quotes konowa in the span of ~500 posts where he changed his mind on hilpol

)

. which, not really a big deal.

edited to fix crucial error

[Mantisdreamz]

Because if Konowa slips three times, Konowa becomes Hated (Lynch -1)

and loses Konowa's vote for the day

. Konowa didn't want to try and prove the claim this way, but it might be easier. The Loved/Hated condition is removed in LYLO but the removal of the vote still occurs in LYLO if Konowa slips three times. Town doesn't likely need Konowa's vote for the Day, so whatever.

Town has four votes for Josh_B with seven needed to lynch, Town can get three more.

aw man

UNVOTE: ansuz
VOTE: josh

^placeholder till i finish catching up.. but maybe he has posted more scummy than townish things.
gotta recheck his iso after catchup.

sorry for all the multiple postings.. it's just easier than copying and pasting all quotes into a gigantic wall

[Mantisdreamz]

who do you have as town thor?

The obvious ones, D3x and Kthx - I've said as much before.
You're complaining that I'm "pressing" people as I try to develop other reads - so you're at least aware I'm attempting to get other reads...so I'm not sure where this whine is coming from nor going to.

to be fair, it wasn't whine. it had occurred to me though, that you were pressing more than stating, "i like so and so's post". i don't have to say to you, that scum like to keep their options open for moving their vote around.

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe i'm a little jaded.. but this post seems like bs to me.
ffs, you say you have ansuz in the wanting to lynch category, and that you don't like the players on his bw? yet you vote lynx..someone who isn't on the ansuz bw. wtf?

what is your purpose for wanting to lynch lynx over ansuz?
or as well, what is the purpose of not voting the ones that you don't trust?

(i'll be honest).. i flat out think that you and ansuz are scum.. and this is you trying to put a a bit of suspicion on ansuz, but in the meantime voting lynx (town)

I just want to say, I want to be in lots of other games with mantis and on the same side. Just makes the best posts that I consistently agree with. Forming a bit of a scum crush, to be honest...

<3 yea, at the beginning your point on ansuz was exactly what i was thinking as well and the stuff with konowa & thor and the post restriction thing. your reads were/are pretty identical to mine

what is your opinion on josh?

[Mantisdreamz]

Thank you for proving that I'm not tunneling even though you're complaining about how I'm tunneling.

I think she's refering to the player Tunnel as opposed to the singleminded hunting of a lone player.

If that is true it just highlights her insanity - because she's complaining about how I'm too focused on Konowa.

lol. well, you were

[Mantisdreamz]

@d3x that's fine, we can discuss it when selecting lynches tomorrow. I'll probably make Mantis wail in terror, but I am fine with the idea of lynching him as well.

i don't think so thor "wail in terror"

I think Lynx is just super easy MisLynch fodder.

Vote:Josh

This is horrible. If you think Lynx is mislynch fodder, we should just lynch burning earth. Can you point me back to why you thought Mantis was scum in the first place?

not really sure how lynx being ml fodder leads to then a vote on BE. d3x is saying that he thinks lynx is ml fodder and then voting you, presumably his scum read (he had just finished pointing out your 1010). are you trying to get him to skip over you and onto BE?


don't like oss's focus on gera being an SK. i've seen many times in games where scum focus on getting the SK, because for one, it appears as scum hunting, and two, SK is a threat to them. even if he is an SK (which i don't think at all), why focus a lot of attention there, when there is a greater number of scum to be found? who threaten town to become closer to parity with them if they're not looked at first.

[Mantisdreamz]

if ger is shooting OP and we are lynching Josh, BE needs sorted out over anyone else.

I'll hide behind BE. final answer?

that sounds good

[Mantisdreamz]

i think tunnel should probably be moved back into scummy category

[Mantisdreamz]

I was a hated townie in a game. I kept saying "don't lynch me, I'm town." But in Lylo, I was hammered by the scum without a single town assistance. It really hurt. Gerantum should continue to save his vig until the night before suspected Lylo and shoot Konowa to keep that from happening. I think it will be helpful if Konowa can help us find the scum in the mean time.

If burning earth flips town, I'll decide what I want to do from there.

I still think Lynx is scum.

.

why? i'm listening.. maybe i was wrong about him

[Mantisdreamz]

it probably didn't occur to me cause at the time i was paranoid about you. i'm still catching up the last few pages so i dunno. also, why would i convince you specifically? i have said my thoughts on ansz in general.

That doesn't particularly clarify the issue.
By the time your answer is 'I didn't think of it *and* why should I have thought of it?' it deserves the face.
How do you normally build cases?

thor, i don't build cases. i'll point some stuff out.. but mostly it's me being on the lookout for town players.

and hey.. that was my train of thought. trying to let you know that it really didn't occur to me.. but then wondering why i should cater just to you in the first place. it doesn't come out in a neat little packaged post - i am aware of that. but meh

Thank you for proving that I'm not tunneling even though you're complaining about how I'm tunneling.

I think she's refering to the player Tunnel as opposed to the singleminded hunting of a lone player.

If that is true it just highlights her insanity - because she's complaining about how I'm too focused on Konowa.

lol. well, you were

No, I was not, and never was, and it's still really weird that you wish to claim it as so. You literally complained about me attacking multiple people at different times, yet somehow suggested I was too focused, even though there was never a 24 hour period wherein I was only scumhunting one person, much less a longer than 24 hour period. If you are town this is screwy, if you are scum I don't like your stance.

ok. here is what i thought. for one - yes, you were focused on konowa.. you said yourself you were going to tunnel him and his posting restriction!!!!! (i'm pissed that i can't abbreviate it to PR.. cause that looks confusing).. and yes, i jut finished saying to you that i don't need to tell you how scum like to press on everyone in their sight, in order to keep their options open for voting purposes. it appeared at the time, that you could have been doing that. hence why i asked you who the hell were your town reads. in conclusion, what i saw was you pressing all over the place, and also being too tunneled on konowa. these 2 things do not link together.. as you are suggesting. .. i saw a lack of town reads and a dumb tunnel on someone

[Mantisdreamz]

not a great list.. but

town:
Konowa
Thor665 gameplay506
d3x
Burning_Earth
geraintm
Kthxbye

uncertain now, but still prob lean town
TunnelMates (notscience and bert)

scum in
Ansuz (Nacho and Desperado)
Josh_B HighShroomish
Osseus pseudotripodis (t-bone and Untrod Tripod)
LynxKuroneko

[Mantisdreamz]

konowa, i also dislike lynx's day 2 play

[Mantisdreamz]

@ Mantis - The fact that you're quite dedicated to campaigning Burning_Earth as town even though his posts consist of 1) sheeping / wagon-hopping, 2) finger pointing (and not much else, and barely with his own finger) and 3) _ _ _ _ _ <-- That represents emptiness. Is quite alarming.

Then you're content with joining the attack on me - but in all your posts recently, you don't say anything against me (if you do, please point that post out). Don't bother analyzing me now - or anyone else for that matter. I certainly won't be taking in a word you type.

Burning_Earth, this seems to be the only post of yours that actually would help town. But I'll have a much harder time trusting you if

he flips town

. (After all, the line between dead-weight town and scum is thin in my eyes).

my bold.. who is the he? josh?

dontcha already not trust him? your first sentence does state that he's sheeping, wagon hopping, etc.

[Mantisdreamz]

@ Mantis - I switched between pronouns accidentally. 'He' as in Burning_Earth.

well no.. you were talking to BE and saying that you'll have a hard time trusting him if *he* flips town.

who is he? it can't be BE, cause that just doesn't make sense

[Mantisdreamz]

No ger, I'm referring to the fact that when you kill me it'll be the same as a scumkill. It was another way of me letting everyone know how much I don't trust your reads right now.

@Kthx, I'll be confirmed town when Ger anti-town kills me, yes.

I see.
Well, you will get the last laugh tomorrow then with your last gasp of air...

...lol

[Mantisdreamz]

Konowa was thinking that too, Mantisdreamz. The entire sentence seems to fall apart if Mantisdreamz' bolded was Burning_Earth as LynxKuroneko stated. Would like LynxKuroneko to clarify this.

Mantisdreamz, Mantisdreamz also said that Mantisdreamz does not like LynxKuroneko's D2 play. What about it?

well, i guess it could make sense for lynx to say that even if BE flips town, he's not going to trust his reads.
still... kinda a weird thing to say.

combined with the fact that he has stated:

@ Mantis - The fact that you're quite dedicated to campaigning Burning_Earth as town even though his posts consist of 1) sheeping / wagon-hopping, 2) finger pointing (and not much else, and barely with his own finger) and 3) _ _ _ _ _ <-- That represents emptiness. Is quite alarming.

^looks like enough reason to have someone as scum. (BE on lynx's part)

yet

Burning_Earth, this seems to be the only post of yours that actually would help town. But I'll have a much harder time trusting you if he flips town. (After all, the line between dead-weight town and scum is thin in my eyes).

^almost seems like lynx knows he is dead weight town.

it just doesn't really mesh. i know it sort of makes sense, that maybe lynx is questioning whether he is town or scum. but it still appears off to me. how do you go from stating what he said in the 1st paragraph, to jumping into a stance where he thinks he could be town. it's kinda like pushing, but then backing down a bit. not to mention the shoddy wording.


@konowa - maybe a different tone. or could be i'm looking at it different. i haven't liked his sum up posts. there's also a bit of snide in his remarks

[Mantisdreamz]

L-1, No Claim, 7hrs left... just saying.

he would have claimed in his last post if he did have something to claim, i think