Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[Maxous]

Also im confirmed town. So that is nice.

this isn't obvious, so I have to wonder why say this so soon

This is the only thing that looks scummy so far, "I have to wonder" is too passive of an attack.

vote: Psyche

[Maxous]

Empking was asking if RBD is literally conf-town or not.
Psych was implying the post was suspicious.

[Maxous]

Empking was asking if RBD is literally conf-town or not.
Psych was implying the post was suspicious.

Empking's question was a stupid one. Both posts were essentially doing the same thing.

Yes the question was weak. I don't see how he was calling RBD scummy with it though. Sometimes players are confirmed from the get-go and he was double-checking if that was the case.
Maybe there is an argument that Empking was asking a question just for the sake of asking. Other than that, meh.
Psych on the other hand, stated that the post was weird and then backed out of it when it did'nt catch on.

[Maxous]

You say this statement isn't implying suspicion. So the question remains: What was the point of this statement?

nearly the same as #55

so you're saying you were reaction testing RBD.
nope.

cximlee #66 is a bad semantics based attack. - I might vote him.

Yes, so far Pasch is the most likely player to be scum. I call it semi-serious because although I vote my biggest suspect, I'm not at all sure that he is actually scum.

I don't think so. It's page 3 and Pasch writes a wall detailing his thoughts on practically every player. He attacked 5 of them.
There was no need to do that and it's actually stepping into dangerous territory if scum.
Also I believe #14 was sarcasm.

[Maxous]

eh, I should of read #71 more carefully

unvote, vote: cximlee

[Maxous]

actually bulb's questions to me make a lot more sense now

:S

[Maxous]

I'll get into this later when I'm on the comp, and oh yes I like attacking word choice and the way things are said.

So deal with it.

Fine, explain why empking's comment was scummy and worth questioning so.

The above question is mainly for Dashie, Maxous, and Empking, whose opinions ought to be listened to.

between tiershift, kenobi and zekrom?
zekrom.

(also A+ on the ego stroke )

and yeah I would be rather surprised if Pasch is scum tbh.

[Maxous]

right,
of the 3 newer players kenobi is the one that comes across as most town. His two votes strike me as genuine and I feel like he is reacting to the kind of behaviour that newer town players generally react to. (going after the most aggressive player for example)
Zekrom by comparison is rather more awkward in his approach in general, particularly his vote in #129. His vote on Whiskers and his #118 is a bit ugh too.
I am fairly confident Tiershift is town.
even more confident Pasch is town.

I *do* like the manner in which Cx approached and voted kenobi(particulary #137), but I'm keeping my vote there until

@cxinlee

explains why he thought Empking's earlier comment was scummy in the first place and stop attempting to sweep the issue under the rug.

I think Whiskers is town for #133, not so much for the content but for the tone of the entire post if that makes sense.

Of the experienced players it is Dry-Fit and/or RBD that strikes me as the most likely to be scum.

I know this is basically a summary of thoughts instead of something more useful but little has struck me as very scummy so far.

[Maxous]

unvote
Vote Ken

That is far more scummy than anything that Emp/Psych did with respect to fishing. He is also completely ignoring the serious game conversation to make those comments at this point,

so that's where the wagon needs to take off.

I really would like a Ken wagon here.

Ken votes would be good here

, and im surprised that you actually are ignoring him since he is still pushing for more from what I said and is staying far to the sides of everything. The you and Psych exchange was "interesting" and then he moved the vote to Pasch for "attacking too many" without much anything else with it.

I'm bolding the language he is using that feels off.
I feel like he was being overly-aggressive towards a newer player

based on little

[Maxous]

still not enough facts yet to determine which side Pasch is on

you should talk about other people too.

[Maxous]

Yeah, but did you notice the difference in reactions? Psyche essentially shrugged me off, which I took to be a town reaction. Empking, however, got extremely defensive and unnecessarily OMGUS'd me. Coming from a generally passive player, that's not a town reaction.

have you seen/played against empking-scum before?

[Maxous]

if i had to choose i would lynch emp over bulb but I suspect it is town-town

[Maxous]

My logic at that point was:

Think: used to describe opinions
Know: used to describe facts

Thus, Empking using the word think seemed to me like it was an opinion (which should have been a fact), and so I suspected him.

see the reason why I'm voting you is because this look to be nothing but nitpicking nonsense.
What are you accusing empking of? A freudian slip? Even then it would'nt really make sense in this context.
Skimming through your three games at least backs up the word choice thing. They also show you are very capable of being obv-town. I look forward to it.

Of the experienced players it is Dry-Fit and/or RBD that strikes me as the most likely to be scum.

Could you go into this a little bit?

I was'nt impressed with you going after Paschendale early as he was the guy I found most likely to be town on page 1.
I don't believe that you have explained what you found scummy about his play in the first place.

@Zek - Can you explain why you unvoted Ken in 139? Especially when you seem to still be saying Ken-Pasch are scum together.

pfft, you keep your vote on kenobi with no comment on recent events regarding him??

Recognition of new scum and new town tells used to be one of my stronger points

don't mean to sound cheeky but you have a strong on-site history of identifying new scum that I could skim?

[Maxous]

getting rid of empking is looking more viable after #195

[Maxous]

I do not, however, see the merits in the CX wagon.

list his reads for me

[Maxous]

Now, im curious, how does not having reads make me scum?

because it would suggest you are having difficulty faking them. you are being overly cautious and are hesitant to commit to reads.
two possible ways.

[Maxous]

increasingly unconvinced by RBD's push on kenobi.

the push just comes across as too lacking in conviction given that RBD is essentially, tunneling on Kenobi.

[Maxous]

(

It really wouldn’t make sense for me to hide my reads if I was scum

, especially when in the last game I was tunnelled by Kytoxid for not getting scumreads).

yes it would.
I'm keeping my vote on you until you play at the level I have seen you are capable of in ALL THREE games that I linked.

I am not writing off Zekrom's #259 as him being new. Zekrom needs to explain - in detail - why he believes scum would purposely not bold the statement.

Pasch is obv-town, Aj the epic would be rather surprising if scum, Whiskers is very town, Tiershift is very town, Dry-Fit is towny,
I need a bit more from Kenobi to solidify a read but I think he is new town.

6 town reads so. From the rest,

My preferred lynches atm are CX or RBD.
Zekrom is turning into an okay lynch.
Psyche, well he's been busy, I'll wait a bit.
Empking and Bulb, I'll should prob go over there double tunnel again (bleh ) but I feel liek they are both okay. Neither's argument is very compelling and there is too much tunneling going on but they seem to genuinely believe in it which is the important thing.

[Maxous]

yep, kenobi is likely town

[Maxous]

I would have to say that this seems like regular incomprehensible bulba.

To maxous and bulba, I don't think the question was stupid or weak, I was about to ask it myself but then two others had asked it. I don't think it's weird that we have an IC, so why is it a dumb question?

These arguments now (bulba vs empking, maxous vs psyche) are going absolutely nowhere.

In the meantime I'm gonna sheep dryfit because he's right that pasch has been scummiest so far and he needs more votes.

VOTE: paschendale

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

If you think that I'm scum, vote me, not bulba.

Reads:
Town -max, pasch, bulb
Null/town-emp, rbd
Null-IH, dryfit (where you 2 at?), psyche
Null/scum-zekrom, kenobi, whiskers, cxinlee
Scum- anyone is free to apply here

????
Sure, you could argue he could of been more clear with his stance of Bulb with the first post, apart from that, he was'nt talking about him.

[Maxous]

Kenobi may be town

and paschendale??

[Maxous]

(Of course with a lot of cautiousness exerted)

stop going 'i'm so cautious' and start kicking ass in the thread.
that is what I am saying.

[Maxous]

I keep flip-flopping on who is towny-ier and who is scummier between bulb + emp

[Maxous]

self hammer.

so Paschendale if you are town why do you extend day 1 longer than it needs to be ?

why are you.

Tiershift's vote on cx..eh, I remember having similairish attitudes when I started out. I think it sounds fairly reasonable.

[Maxous]

unvote

[Maxous]

why did you unvote ?

#326 appears to be a very weird bluff if he is scum considering he thought he was at L-1.
I'm not sure he could pull it off tbh which would point to him being town, need to mull on this for a bit.
I really don't like the Tiershift alternative though

[Maxous]

Pasch is obv-town, Aj the epic would be rather surprising if scum, Whiskers is very town, Tiershift is very town, Dry-Fit is towny,
I need a bit more from Kenobi to solidify a read but I think he is new town.

well i stick by these town reads. I think psyche is town-ish too so that leaves 4-5 people on PoE I guess even though i'm not so sure about the scum-reads on cx and RBD anymore.

[Maxous]

POSSIBLE

town?
That's some odd wording for describing oneself

You know exactly what Zekrom was saying. That's a pretty bs semantics nitpick.

urgh, I have a really annoying feeling that RBD is scum but I agree with him completely about Cx and Zekrom is not looking town at all.
RBD does get town points for pulling a hard defence on Cx but 3 of us called him town first so maybe this was clever RBD scum..?

That's a good point. Actually, how many scum ARE there?

I'm a bit more confident Kenobi is town due to this as it seems overly cheeky for new-scum to pull off...so he prolly is'nt.

uhhh Tiershift's #352 is actually a poor post...like seriously. I might be eatiing humble pie on that read.

@Tier

- why would you policy lynch Zekrom..?

Now, that's all putting a heavy burden of proficiency on CXI, perhaps.

well, yes.
I agree that I have seen nothing from CX that would point to him being manipulative enough to pull it off.
In fact the entire reason he was wagoned is because his play is poor in this game.

I think a couple of people argued it so

@open invitation

to tell me why Zekrom is town and I should'nt vote him.
because #345 was such a passive aggressive loaded question I might just vote it.

[Maxous]

I agree that I have seen nothing from CX that would point to him being manipulative enough to pull it off.

*to add to this if we kept cx at L-1, he was pretty boned if he's scum. If scum it was a dangerous bluff because he would of had to follow it through.
idk unless scum have day-talk (which i think is uncommon in 13 player) then, no I don't think he would of bluffed that.

[Maxous]

Then, I said I might be in for a zekrom PL because he is someone that if town, won't be nightkilled and

you don't want him around for LyLo.

why? If he is town, the best thing to do would be

to not lynch him

so zekrom is no longer a strong town-read for you?

[Maxous]

vote: Zekrom25

I'm not super-confident he's scum but it's plausible enough to lynch.
He's been under the spotlight for a while now and I don't see a town reaction out of him.

[Maxous]

I was having a think about the possibility of a bulb-empking double bus myself during the night phase. It's not implausible.
i'll get to this tomorrow, i'm not sure who i want to vote atm.

[Maxous]

i really don't like how weirdly tiershift acted around that zekrom wagon though.

[Maxous]

*swiftly dodging with style*

should get to this in a couple of hrs anyway.

[Maxous]

Not only that, but I can't really see where he's coming from most of the time. At all. I just get a very scummy feel from his posts. I know there were some more specific stuff that I pointed out yesterday, but I don't feel like looking for it atm.

Why are you voting paschendale for this over Empking when you can hardly remember why you find Pasch scummy in the first place? You did'nt seem to have a problem clarifying why Emp was scum.

additionally:

@bulbazak

: Are you aware that Empking is voting Tiershift for being scumbuddies with you? I don't see much of a reaction to it.
-

How does Zekrom and RBD flipping what one would expect them to flip mean we'd have to reassess the game?

this is a joke.
Not once at the end of day 1 did Empking call Zekrom town.
And we had a discussion about Zekrom for a long time. Zekrom was practically begging for help and I will point out that I

specifically asked

somebody with a town-read on Zekrom to speak up:

I think a couple of people argued it so

@open invitation

to tell me why Zekrom is town and I should'nt vote him.

and yet radio silence from the empking.
Empking's blatant OMGUS scumreads is'nt appealing to me either.
-

No thoughts on Cx or

Max? Those are the controversial ones

, and you skip them entirely.

hrm?

The only people he calls scum are obvtown me

actually

@paschendale

: can you go over why you are obv-town for me please?

Bulb: Conditional on Kenbeing scum, Aj is a town read.

complete non-answer.

you know what,

vote: Empking

the tl;dr of my vote is all 3 of his scumreads being people who attacked him first (trying to turn the tables on them), I am not impressed by any of his scum-reads on an individual basis but it's really the sitting idly by and ignoring the situation while a town-read was being mislynched that puts him over the line for me.

[Maxous]

ftr I won't be voting paschendale.
Tiershift, I'm back to thinking he's town.

[Maxous]

sorry, will get to this tomorrow, I know i've been slacking off.

[Maxous]

I've stated repeatedly why I find Pasch scummy in general. There were some more specific instances that I pointed out yesterday, but they're buried in my ISO, and I don't feel like trying to find them.

I was asking why he is scummier than empking to you when you're reasoning upon voting him was 'not as town as others think he is and he is town-leading scum' (while not really showing where).
You're empking stuff looked more convincing (to me), yet you opted for the pasch vote.
Also looking through your ISO your reasoning for pasch-scum is..
- scumreads based on bad reasoning
- uncanny sense of self awareness
- pushing newb tells as scum tells

Why keep saying 'there's stuff in my D1 ISO' instead of just quickly going through that and clarifing 'this is why pasch is scum'
I'm wondering how much conviction you have in pushing him over the line to a lynch.

Emp is voting Tier, because Tier voted him. He is justifying that vote by saying he's scum with me. I see that vote as a joke, so I didn't feel the need to address it.

Again, you could say 'hey guys, this bs vote is a joke!!'

[Maxous]

However, I think it might be a better tactic to lynch scum, by which, of course, I mean Dry-fit.

I also find it kind of strange that most people are townreading me this game, but whatevs.

Aye, me too.

Vote: Dry-fit

I know we are all being lethargic and stuff but you were specifically asked why dry-fit was scum after the first post and you decided the best way to push dry-fit as scum is to be as obtuse as humanly possible despite you acknowledging that practically everybody in the game is town-reading him.
This will convince people he is scum how exactly. Looks pretty bs.

[Maxous]

I haven't seen anything terribly town from Maxous, and his last attack on Empking, saying that he's scum because all of his suspects suspected him, looks like fake scumhunting to me.

Problems with empking's play:

*If somebody is calling you scum it is an effective response to call them scum back if you can find an opening to attack. This forces the player to defend themselves which takes the bite out of their attack on you and deflects attention from yourself onto your attacker because other players in the game will be forced to look at both players instead of just you. I would do it as scum. He's done this 3 times.
* His bulbazak scum-read: i thought the initaial vote was fine - I could understand it - but emp is still riding on it since post #33? I know emp will respond 'well bulb is still wrong about eveything' but come on.
* He is voting tier-shift for bulb buddy interactions while bulb is unflipped. I feel like it's disingenuous.
* I was wrong about my initial assessment of the zekrom comment. He did'nt town-read Zek, no he simply expected him to flip town because he is so convinced about 2 players being scum. Kay? (kinda makes me question why he bothers with seperating null and town reads but very minor point)
*#446 is a waffly non-answer to a simple question and it's something that I remember scum players doing more than town.
*I think his response in #497 is scummy. Not saying 'insulting somebody is scummy' per se, but the manner in which he did so is. I clearly misunderstood the comment and it was very understandable given Emp did'nt give a stance/comment on zekrom before the lynch, but emp goes to default scum-play #2. If you can't call them scum, insult them. It was awkward and unneeded.

[Maxous]

Therefore every interaction tell that points to Tier being scum, also points to (possibly to a lesser extent in case of scum gambit) Bulb being scum.

You are implying that you have reasons to beleive Tier is scum independent of his association with bulb.
you did'nt mention any in #450

[Maxous]

eh, I think tiershift is more town than scum but it would'nt be the worst lynch as his flip is gonna tell much about a lot of people in this game.

[Maxous]

which is why I would expect him as scum to abandon ship at some point or at least put the Bulba stuff on the back burner more.

which is exactly what he has done.

[Maxous]

given there is a replacement request we should get an extra day or two.

cxinlee - vote somebody before you're the day 3 lynch.

[Maxous]

This dry-fit case of kenobi's makes me really like ken

and I'm dumbfounded to actually have to agree with it.

what did you mean by the bolded?

[Maxous]

Whiskers’ #273 is basically “I don’t know if he’s scum but let’s lynch him anyway”. Please explain this.

Except that's really not what she said, is it?

Unvote

Vote Cxinlee

Cxinlee is a scumread for the same reasons as yesterday.

unless i've missed something this is what bulb has given for cx-scum.

[Maxous]

but it was mainly because I didn't like the way he's reacted for the most part this game.

for example?

[Maxous]

Well, that tells us Ken is town then, doesn't it?

we did'nt know this already?
if he is newb-scum, he is really damn good.

[Maxous]

Emp has been anti-town a lot, but I don't know if there's truth in what Whiskers says about him or not. He might just be like this, deserving of a lynch, but impossible to actually read.

yes he's usually obtuse and understated.
scummy content is not his playstyle.

~

* His bulbazak scum-read: i thought the initaial vote was fine - I could understand it - but emp is still riding on it since post #33? I know emp will respond 'well bulb is still wrong about eveything' but come on.

Max: Tier is Bulbs buddy. By association that makes Bulb, Tier's buddy. Therefore every interaction tell that points to Tier being scum, also points to (possibly to a lesser extent in case of scum gambit) Bulb being scum.

Therefore every interaction tell that points to Tier being scum, also points to (possibly to a lesser extent in case of scum gambit) Bulb being scum.

You are implying that you have reasons to beleive Tier is scum independent of his association with bulb.
you did'nt mention any in #450

[Maxous]

@Psych - Cxi is town because of that post, but because he thought he was at L-1. If he is scum he is faking knowing that which I doubt he would have the presence of mind to do as scum.

The way in which the post was written looked like it came up without reading the whole of the previous page and just went into panic post mode at seeing someone ask for the claim.

The fact it didn't actually contain a claim means something here.

it means what?

[Maxous]

unvote, vote:TierShift

L-1

can you claim please?

If a Maxous wagon magically popped up though I wouldn't mind joining that.

i'm pointing out a logic hole in his bulbazak scum-read.
I'm assume you're rebutting this?

[Maxous]

ok, but if you're a PR don't leave it to the last second.

[Maxous]

oh fuck lol

unvote

I thought the deadline was friday for some reason but eh, seemingly not.
ftr i was voting tier over pasch.
nevermind

[Maxous]

vote:Empking

My read on you is based on your overall play,

Fine. what problems exactly

[Maxous]

^
ftr, posts like this are why Tier is probably town.
No fear to re-evaluate and change his vote on the drop of a hat to secure a lynch he wants regardless of how it might make him look to others. He done it a lot Day 1.

[Maxous]

But what lynches has he actually wanted?

uhh, cx + emp in day 1 and emp + pasch in day 2...why are you asking me this?

i'm mostly talking about the likes of #317, #319, #352 and #402

(And obviously, you voting me and then Tier deciding his previous vote was unjustifiable is clearly not a coincidence.)

you know, tbh this has crossed my mind... especially seeing as how I made it clear I would save pasch over him.

~

for the record, cheery dog and cxinlee, since you're voting pasch you guys should probably have a look at RBD's last posts particularly this one.

[Maxous]

p confident pasch is town.
my point being RBD likely poisoned him anyway so why bother wagoning him today?

[Maxous]

I also think scum would have found the cxinlee wagon an irresistible opportunity yesterday, and I think you were the/one of the scum who joined it.

Yeah, I was the first one to derail that wagon

~

unvote

why did you unvote ?

#326 appears to be a very weird bluff if he is scum considering he thought he was at L-1.
I'm not sure he could pull it off tbh which would point to him being town, need to mull on this for a bit.

[Maxous]

Can we not lynch the guy putting in the most effort?
If you don't want empking, i'm open for bulbazak.

[Maxous]

not necessarily.
individually you are my two strongest scum-reads, idk if I would go after the other if I get a scum-flip off one of you.

[Maxous]

And I only brought it up because someone mentioned the poison.

now I feel bad =/

I only brought it up because I wanted people off the town-pasch wagon and see how Cheery + CX would respond.
Cheery's response hasn't been fantastic though.
like, is cheery still calling pasch scum???

[Maxous]

i think cheery has been a bit too comfortable with his vote-parking in general

[Maxous]

myself and bulb have town-reads on Tier.
the ball is in Pasch + AJ's court

[Maxous]

Spoiler:

I would like to see a vote count.

I felt that both posts stemmed from the same reasoning. RBD's statement is the typical level of RVS BS I'd expect. Players will make statements like that all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean there's anything to them, something that Psyche and Empking should know. Each took a different tactic in regards to that statement, but they both stem from the larger issue that they commented on a non-statement and tried to fish based off of it. Emp took a more direct approach, and Psych went with the suspicious route. At least 1 of them is likely to be scum. Looking at that, why single Psyche out, yet leave Empking be?

Was this just an attempt to have someone else join you on the empking wagon or were you suspicious of both of them yourself? You went to a lot of effort to identify both as perpetrators of what Maxous was voting my slot for at the start. In fact I'm not even sure your reasoning for your empking read has developed much more than what it existed as back in this stage.

Maxous was pursuing Psyche for reasons that were not unique to Psyche. I wanted to know why he was pursuing Psyche specifically, when Emp had essentially done the same thing. At this point I had already ruled Psyche out due to his reaction. I didn't like Emp's reaction, so I continued to push him. Since then, Emp has continued to do nothing to scum hunt, and his scum list is composed entirely of those who suspect him.

When half the player base claims to suspect you, that's what'll inevitably happen.

^
ftr, posts like this are why Tier is probably town.
No fear to re-evaluate and change his vote on the drop of a hat to secure a lynch he wants regardless of how it might make him look to others. He done it a lot Day 1.

Opportunistly jumping from one wagon to another without any town-reason is scum play. You're making a 'too scummy to be scum' argument.
(And obviously, you voting me and then Tier deciding his previous vote was unjustifiable is clearly not a coincidence.)

Bulb: Why would you know that 'flipflopping and bad play, are part of [Tier's] town game'?

that's everything empking has written in around ~ 10 days
contrast that wagon reaction to TierShift who has posted frequently, engaged with everyone that hopped on his wagon and is giving us a goldmine in interactions if he was scum.

[Maxous]

I guess I better let you have a chance of disproving your role.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tiershift

Empking is at L-2 and a hot topic.
why do you have no stated opinion of him either way.

[Maxous]

First of all, I'd like to apologize for my lazy and survivalistic behaviour at the end of day 2. It was one of the factors that led us to this lazy lynch, but I still don't have any idea why emp didn't claim. I have been acting scummily lately and I don't know why I wasn't just lynched instead of emp.

...hold on

1) why was it a 'lazy lynch'
2) what do you mean by 'acting scummily'

vote: Bulbazak

Yeah, not convinced he is town and yes he is a good scum player as far as I am aware.
Think we need to seriously have a look here.
Along with Cheery Dog ftr.
Suppose I should look through AJ again, remember why I town-read him earlier.

[Maxous]

ugh, #706 looks like such an awkward jump onto Tiershift.
a bit over-justified maybe?, idk. Does'nt give me the fuzzies, bulb hasn't really all game

[Maxous]

does the scum team know something about pasch that we don't?

[Maxous]

there's 2 separate players insisting he is not a tracker for weird reasons.

[Maxous]

I should be voting cheery.

unvote, vote: Cheery Dog

he's suggesting that Pasch is not a tracker because it is well known(apparently) that RBD wouldn't shoot with a town vig role - even though RBD specifically said he would be confirm-able on D2 - ergo Pasch is lying about the result. (along with lying about Cxinlee because Cx basically claimed vanilla )
or else Pasch is a scum tracker for reasons. Those reasons being a 'no kill gambit' and keeping his mislynch options open by attacking Tiershift over defending newbies

[Maxous]

I saw your posturing in twilight. I didn't like it.

Eh, I was inebriated and just complimenting whiskers on hammering emp and not me, really.

Bulb - the explanation for the 'posturing to attack Whiskers' thing is here, he wasn't attacking Whiskers during the hammer.

[Maxous]

My major reasons are still what they were when I first voted him yesterday in with the anti-newbie defend stuff.

you said you ignored empking because he was practically impossible to get a read on him along with the other players who are'nt posting much.
what's your reason for ignoring talking about tiershift today?

[Maxous]

if you're tired of it, you are welcome to start obv-town posting.

I've explained why i'm voting CD and a couple of posts also get lost in the crash.
tl;dr: I dont like his tunnel on Pasch and how obtuse/vague the rest of his reads are.

[Maxous]

he's an acceptable lynch alrite

[Maxous]

if you're tired of it, you are welcome to start obv-town posting.

Already doing so, it's just no one wants to get rid of their shitty deathtunnels on me

I find the certainty and naivity with which max defends me disconcerting.

maybe i've been wrong about you after all

[Maxous]

I find the certainty and naivity with which max defends me disconcerting.

Max, why aren't you voting bulba anymore?

The fact that he's one of the people who consistently finds you town is a bother, I agree.

However, you're in no position to disagree with him defending you, as he's basically the only player I consider for-sure town who's been consistently backing you

. I still haven't seen anything worth being suspicious of from Max.

interesting choice of words.

[Maxous]

Yeah, so you think SK would just claim they're 3rd party+inviting the tracker to conf themselves by tracking them?
Yeah, no.

Just because it's not a SK per se doesn't mean that it's not a role that can kill in some fashion, thus getting rid of a BP. Heck, it could even be a SK with investigation immunity.

Is there even a trackable non-SK 3rd party role? Can't think of one.

This is a theme game. Who knows?

Because third party don't just claim?
Plus, if there's a SK like dry-fit's story seems to suggest, it would be weird to have another third party role.
I'm not used to playing mini themes, but I can't remember ever having seen two third party roles in a normal-ish mini theme.

Then it's possible that Whiskers might be the only 3rd party, but might not be telling the truth about her role. That's why Pasch and I have been prodding her.

so you think there is a legit possibility that Whiskers is a serial killer.
you are being very passive about it considering the circumstances.

And I still struggle to see that this is a genuine town-tunnel on Pasch from Cheery.

[Maxous]

Congratulating the doc is a scumtell so don't try to turn that on me.

why?

[Maxous]

I still don't believe it's a confirmable role. I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally, but we have to remember that whiskers

isn't town

.

lol?
so Pasch can track Whiskers and prove he is a tracker role at least, but we can't trust Whiskers verifying it because Whiskers claimed a third party role.

I find the certainty and naivity with which max defends me disconcerting.

Max, why aren't you voting bulba anymore?

The fact that he's one of the people who consistently finds you town is a bother, I agree.

However, you're in no position to disagree with him defending you, as he's basically the only player I consider for-sure town who's been consistently backing you

. I still haven't seen anything worth being suspicious of from Max.

interesting choice of words.

I could've said "Only person backing you, period" but I felt like specifying my stance on you.

it's your idea that Tiershift should be grateful to me and eating out of my hand because I'm the guy defending him. Scum do defend mislynchable town sometimes.
He should be having a look at my reasons why etc.
saying "you're not in a position to disagree with him defending you" is a lame attack and is

more likely to come from town

on the other hand.. his whole "I've been obv town-posting, people are just shitty tunnelling me" when in his previous post he literally called me out for NAIVELY DEFENDING HIM WITH A WEIRD AMOUNT OF CERTAINTY is a different kettle of fish.

[Maxous]

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

Pasch can't lie because he **risks confirming himself as scum to whiskers**
Just like he would of risked being caught out badly if he lied about RBD + Cxinlee tracks. Needless risks with not a great payoff.
Yes scum trackers exist but you keep arguing he is

lying about being a tracker

Even if Whiskers is third party =/= helping the mafia.
That is, if Whiskers is even a third party role and not full of bs - which he likely is.
You were not like this before

I'll just outright ask...do you have role information that Pasch isn't a tracker? If so,

just say it

[Maxous]

frakin, sigh

unvote, vote: Bulbazak

[Maxous]

Max, Bulb has been extremely town today. You're barking up the wrong tree.

dude, idk anymore. This game is hard.
It's making me think the scum are in the good players. Bulb is #1 on that list, and the fact that RBD + Emp thought he was scum kinda helps too.

You seemed to be thinking Tier-scum awhile ago. Why the sudden reverse, and why so downhearted about it, as if we are twisting your arm? Is it because Tier is saying he'd be willing to lynch you?

Tier willing to lynch in a weak manner is irritating me and I'm a bit doubtful he would be doing that as scum.
the 'downherated' thing was about cheery who is being so goddamn stubborn he might be town..plus I'm rather tired of going nowhere with the arguing.

[Maxous]

Tier willing to lynch in a weak manner is irritating me and I'm a bit doubtful he would be doing that as scum.

Why?

true, it's assuming he is playing optimally but you don't puncture your life raft do you?

so Pasch can track Whiskers and prove he is a tracker role at least, but we can't trust Whiskers verifying it because Whiskers claimed a third party role.

Why in the world would we waste a track on Whiskers at this point?

I was pointing out Cheery's logic, not advocating paschendale track whiskers.

~

Since i'm not getting Cheery or Bulb lynched i'll

unvote, vote: Whiskers

I would rather avoid the potential king-maker scenario where we are begging for whisker's help tomorrow when he can easily turn around and go "lol fuk u"
he is helping the town today because it is optimal but tomorrow in a lylo situation it will be optimal for him

not to

. I assume he will be playing to his win condition and not helping us out of sympathy.
claiming third party isn't just in the town interests, it's in his own as well - he's guaranteeing to avoid a night kill. if he is lying about being thirdparty..well

dont lie

better than a paschendale lynch at any rate.

[Maxous]

Maxous, where are you getting that we'll be in Lylo tomorrow?

if we mislynch and there is a successful night-kill there will be 8 remaining...so lylo

[Maxous]

There, you happy?

now

I'm "guaranteeing to avoid as nightkill."

which would imply that beforehand, you felt that you were leaving yourself open to the possibility of drawing the nightkill.
see, the problem I have with this is - since you are third party - if you drew the nightkill, presumably

you would lose

you are expecting us to believe that you are playing detrimental to your independent win condition and helping us out because we are sucking and mislynching.
I don't think so. If I was third party in your position, I would chuck the town to the wolves if they weren't pulling their shit together.

Sidenote: If whiskers is telling the truth and he did not shoot the extra kill, that would mean somebody else did. Another third party did. A second town vig would of claimed by now.
If there are 2 third party roles in this game, (has there ever been if a 13 player game? ), that would suggest a 2 mafia team because otherwise it would be a bit unfair.

Typical scum team for a 13 player game is 3, so that would be Mylo.

and yeeeeeah, yourself being more interested in correcting my terminology than addressing the points I made regarding Whiskers?
Lemme jot that down as another reason you're scum here bulba.
You have been poking Whiskers from a safe distance this entire time.
Trying to learn his role but not going in aggressively so you won't be shot by him.

[Maxous]

still voting whiskers unless somebody has a plausible idea where the second kill on night 1 came from.
and why we have bulletproof masons.

[Maxous]

And, I'm not being a douche here, either: if you're that certain that TS is scum, why haven't you been treating him as flipped, looking for his scumbuddies?

why hasn't cheery?

[Maxous]

unvote, vote; Tiershift

we have about 3 days ftr.

[Maxous]

we've had this conversation

Pasch > Tier

[Maxous]

pasch has been so town this page, it increases my desire to burn his wagon

but kenobi is town so,

[Maxous]

So deadline is now set at: 16th, March, 10:00pm

[Maxous]

in fact, i'm rather confused why you even asked when I made it clear at the top of the page that I voted you because I didn't want paschendale lynched

[Maxous]

unvote, vote; Tiershift

we have about 3 days ftr.

like seriously, here?

[Maxous]

I don't 'truly suspect' you, I would prefer cheery, bulb or whiskers.

"not trying to get people to vote bulba" - I was trying the entire day to get people to vote cheery dog. Multiple times.

"it's weak" - it's a deadline compromise lynch between two of my stated town reads. I chose to vote the weaker town-read.

are you calling me scummy for this or what?
i'm harping on here because #947 is looking like

faux scumhunting

because you *know* why I'm voting you and not bulb.

[Maxous]

a 1-shot PR that you didn't use last night after you were so aware that the empking lynch would launch you into hot-water that it prompted you to write #699?
nope

[Maxous]

unvote

for the moment while i think.
i kinda want to ask you to watch pasch tonight...but it's ridiculous that you didn't use it last night.

[Maxous]

I thought about it.
no.

vote: Tiershift

[Maxous]

Eh okay, you're obvmason to me. You've tried to steer away from the emp lynch and the 'let's lynch Tier before more unnecessary claims come out' is pretty telling. Also the fact that you're not hard pushing for my lynch shows me that you just wanted to lynch me over emp, not wanted to lynch me necessarily.

Cheery may be the third mason if there is one since the rest on my wagon have expressed doubts about emp being town while cheery just avoided him.

[Maxous]

role confirmed =/= alignment confirmed

[Maxous]

*sigh*

this game was frustrating. It was as I feared, the scum were in the stronger players

you played really well guys.