Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[TierShift]

Wow dry-fit isn't scummy yet
Last time he was very scummy as town
This must be his scum play
VOTE: dry-fit
You can still redeem yourself by acting like scum

[TierShift]

Damn this is a boring rvs
Why is no one trolling with me

[TierShift]

I would have to say that this seems like regular incomprehensible bulba.

To maxous and bulba, I don't think the question was stupid or weak, I was about to ask it myself but then two others had asked it. I don't think it's weird that we have an IC, so why is it a dumb question?

I agree that psyche's wording implied a feeling that the statement was weird, which he denies he implied.
VOTE: psyche
Psyche reread and tell me how the words don't imply exactly that.

@Dry-fit: your regular play better be different from your marathon game, lol. Have you got anything other to comment than me being a dog?

[TierShift]

UNVOTE: dry
VOTE: psyche
As per rule 6a

[TierShift]

You're right.
UNVOTE: psyche
Someone pick me a wagon I can join.

[TierShift]

These arguments now (bulba vs empking, maxous vs psyche) are going absolutely nowhere.

In the meantime I'm gonna sheep dryfit because he's right that pasch has been scummiest so far and he needs more votes.

VOTE: paschendale

[TierShift]

Good post.

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

I feel like you only now ended RVS, but still, my vote on you was semi-serious. You were on the whiskers wagon, then in 14 you sounded a tad like towncred-fishing scum. Then 16, probably just your average RVS crap, but it doesn!'t feel completely right.

I'll have to say that I agree with most of your reads, even though I think you are a bit quick to call all the non-participators scummy.

[TierShift]

Yes, so far Pasch is the most likely player to be scum. I call it semi-serious because although I vote my biggest suspect, I'm not at all sure that he is actually scum.

[TierShift]

Unlike you, I do agree with bulba that there is possibly/probably (what's the word I'm looking for here?) is a scum on the wagon. Like, it's not a very strong clue, but it's something at a point in time where we have nothing else.

Why do you think this and why is it any different from randomly picking a lynch pool?

Scum sheep. A lot. When a wagon builds very quickly without reason (even in rvs) there is often scum on it.

[TierShift]

Scum sheep. A lot. When a wagon builds very quickly without reason (even in rvs) there is often scum on it.

And just as often not. What if Whiskers were scum? Would you still think that about this wagon? I pointed out exactly this exact point, still on the first page, and yet you think that I'm the scummiest person on the wagon. But then again, I was referring to a wagon with an actual flip. When there would be reason to start analyzing it. Scum could just as easily have been avoiding it to keep their teammate from getting randomly lynched. And on such a quick wagon, the later votes are much more suspect, not the third one.

Even if Whiskers were scum, such a quick wagon is suspicious. Scum bus, especially during RVS.

The more you try to defend this vote on me, the worse it looks. Maybe we should string you up instead of Bulb. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a scumteam of you, Zekrom, and Kenobi.

Peedit: And Kenobi sheeps his scumbuddy. And points out something that is not at all a scumtell to back it up.

That's 2/3 scum found. I wonder if Zek will pop in and make it a trifecta. Which one should we lynch first?

Ok my vote goes from semi-serious to serious. I find your defensivity concerning.

You imply that I should not defend my vote on you, without giving actual reasons for it, you just say it looks scummy. That's AtF.

Then, you call me scum, with the guys that are playing their first game here. That's pretty damn low. I think these guys belong in the Newbie forum, but don't try to mix up newbieness with scumminess here.

If you think that I'm scum, vote me, not bulba.

[TierShift]

Ok wtf is even going on

Explain your paschendale votes, ken and zek, and don't use 'pasch is the most aggressive player so far', because that is not a scumtell.

[TierShift]

I'd have to agree on rainbow town and I also think Maxous is.

[TierShift]

Crap pasch is town.

UNVOTE:

I think your scumhunting is way off though. Do you really expect all scum to be on the same wagon? Can't say I've ever seen that before. I think we're looking at max 1 scum on your wagon, max.

I see Zekrom's play as newbtown, he seems to be genuinely trying to hunt.
As for Kenobi, his play could be newbscum for the sidelining and the huge newb card pulling in 101, but he could just as well be lost and wanting the more experienced players to guide him.

May I ask what exactly the case on both of them is?

[TierShift]

The fuck.

It's page 6 and we seem to already have settled for lynching a newbie. I really, really don't understand.
Lynching them will give us hardly anything to work off day 2, even if they were to flip scum. What's more, they'll probably give away their alignment at some point in time anyway.

I think it's highly scummy to opt for a lynch on a weaker player that is not showing their alignment, just showing a whole shitton of newbieness. And I don't think they have really shown their alignment so far, they did scummy things because they are newbies.They probably won't be able to defend themselves and scum knows that.

Latest posts have made Zekrom null and ken a vwry slight scumread for me, ftr. I don't think they are scum together in like, ever.

Most opportunistic votes on newbies so far are by cxinlee and whiskers, with whiskers's vote being the most awkward since it's the only input we have from him.

VOTE: whiskers

[TierShift]

I was gonna respond that we shouldn't lynch newbies when we aren't really sure about their alignments because we won't have nothing to work off but dayumm they keep on being more and more scummy.
Ugh. Perhaps you were just earlier to see that than me. I'm gonna drop the issue.

Whiskers, my vote still resides with you. Could you comment more on the state of matters here instead of picking solely at one newbie, no matter how scummy he may be?

Max, why do you think RBD is scum?

Reads:
Town -max, pasch, bulb
Null/town-emp, rbd
Null-IH, dryfit (where you 2 at?), psyche
Null/scum-zekrom, kenobi, whiskers, cxinlee
Scum- anyone is free to apply here

[TierShift]

As you can see, I said that I've dropped the issue since I find both newbies (especially zekrom) to be scummy now. I'm fine with you voting for zekrom.

I vote Whiskers mainly for the lack of substantial game content while making an extensively case on an easy lynch target, however scummy.
This is a vote that could possibly change but so far it just feels like whiskers is going with the flow and not trying to find scum amongst more experienced players.

You could also vote cxinlee for the opportunistic play but as I said the zekrom vote is fine.

@Max: thanks for the elaboration, makes sense.

[TierShift]

I don't think the word "opportunistic" means what you think it means.

Google gives me this: "exploiting immediate opportunities".

Exactly what cxinlee was doing. There was an easy opportunity to jump on a wagon there and he certainly did. His vote didn't feel like he was convinced at all.

What do you think of cxinlee?

[TierShift]

Acting on new information is neutral; taking the easy way out and placing a vote you do not believe in is not, however.

Why is cx suddenly okay? He was in your scumlist, what has he done to change your mind?

I'd like more out of everyone with fewer than 10 posts.

QFT, this game moves slowwwwly

[TierShift]

Sry can't find it quote the scumhunting please

[TierShift]

Opinions differ, then.

[TierShift]

Tier Shift: Why did you think my reason for voting Ken was weak?

You didn't think he was scum. You did hop onto a wagon that was quickly building, though. It's not a strong scumtell or anything, but coupled with the fact that I haven't seen any real scumhunting from you yet makes you a more scummy than townie for me.

[TierShift]

I'll have to agree with what AJ said regarding cxinlee.

UNVOTE: whiskers
VOTE: cxinlee
Whiskers has been more null than scum anyway.

Cxinlee I'm definitely interested in how Aj is basing his case on false assumptions.

[TierShift]

Cx, you didn't address RBD's request asking to elaborate on 196. Could you do so?

Aj seems town.

After seeing 203 I decided to reread on empking and he's been hugely slipping under the radar. 9 of his 12 posts are about addressing a case bulba made on him. He doesn't actually address anything at all, he just keeps saying bulba is wrong and the case is addressed. On top of that, he votes bulba for forcing, which he further doesn't explain. No scumhunting, nothing.

Survival tactics+not hunting. Scum.

Two scumreads atm, cx and emp.

[TierShift]

Also claiming that my posts are saying that Bulba is 'wrong' is a wilful and undeniable misrepresentation of my claim that Bulba is 'wrong about everything'; Tier gives a dishonest impression with, just, enough similarity with the truth that it couldn't be done, but on purpose.

What the fuck is this? 'Wrong' is a wilful misrepresentation of 'wrong about everything'? And it's on purpose?
Now the only thing that you have done all game, is defend yourself. That's not scumhunting nor are you gonna find out bulba's alignment with that. And now you say that I haven't done anything all game. Good deflection, very good.

I'll have to say that you eclipse cx in scumminess.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: empking

Ftr, stuff you haven't addressed, only said to be wrong:

Mainly for the fishing and the fact that you sheeped RBD rather quickly while simultaneously questioning his conf. townness.

I pressure Empking based on his reaction to RBD's conf. town statement. Empking freaks out, OMGUS's, and gets super defensive. This is abnormal for Empking. Seeing as this is an abnormal response to minimal pressure with weak reasoning, being more akin to the "scum getting caught for the wrong reasons" reaction, Empking is scum.

[TierShift]

Are you actually gonna explain your statements as to why I'm dishonest and bulba is wrong?

[TierShift]

I don't think Emp's been under the radar. He took a very confrontational stance with the Bulba stuff, which is likely to draw attention, and it has. I'd say I'm much more of someone who's under the radar right now.

Empking has been repeating the same stuff over and over again and thus doesn't stick out anymore.

You, on the other hand, have been visible to me all game and I know where I stand on you (town)

Us being on page 10 is fucking ridiculous.

@mod: is there a deadline of any kind?

[TierShift]

Guys...if you want to lynch zekrom, don't write it off to anything else than a policy lynch.
This guy is town.

[TierShift]

If I quoted every sentence, but one, of Bulbs and proved it wrong would you read that post?

If you actually tried scumhunting, I think people would read your post. Just whining about someone being wrong certainly doesn't help.

@Dry-fit

however the back & forth between Empking / Bulbazak possibly seems one is hiding something

If this is scum I'll cry

[TierShift]

Sure I'll post even though I have not much to add.

I read cxinlee's 257 and when I saw it I was like wtf and completely thought along the lines of aj's 258.

Why don't you guys leave the ken wagon and join either cxin or emp wagon just for the sake of making something happen?

[TierShift]

Does anyone actually think that TierShift is town?

Is this why I'm scum

It also really feels like Tier is trying to protect Zek. No part of me would be surprised to see them on a scumteam together.

Or is this?

Confused

Empking in general looks townier than Bulba, though.

Elaborate, please.

[TierShift]

Dry-fit's read on me is fair, I've been hopping quite a lot. I can say that I do that often as town but well I hate self-meta.

I still don't get why pasch is voting me. Is ot for first defending the newbies then backing off?

And emp, are you still scumreading me because 'I lie constantly'?

[TierShift]

Dry-fit's read on me is fair, I've been hopping quite a lot.

What's fair about it? Do you think vote hopping is a scumtell in general?

It's fair, not because I agree, but your analysis of my play is fine and if you want to call 'defending the newbies, then dropping that and calling them scummy but not doing anything with that suspicion' "off", then I won't stop you. I don't agree, but it's a fair read.
Unlike emp's, ken's and pasch's read on me. (Really, I'm defending someone who hasn't even flipped?)

I don't think vote hopping really is a scumtell, more of a towntell. I have no idea why I put that in my post earlier in hindsight.

Also, lol@ emp's last post.

[TierShift]

Great, another push by cx that he himself seems unconvinced of.

[TierShift]

I think a lynch would improve the quality of this game. Discussion has been stale and taking another 10 days is gonna give us nothing but apathy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxinlee

[TierShift]

Cool why

Absolutely nothing is happening

[TierShift]

I think a lynch would improve the quality of this game. Discussion has been stale and taking another 10 days is gonna give us nothing but apathy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxinlee

PLEASE CAN WE KILL THIS!?!?!

We can wait for tomorrow, right? Cxinlee needs to go more than Tiershift, even if that post did suck as a terrible reason to join this lynch.

I voted my long time scumread. I didn't need a good reason to hop on.

The text above my vote was not providing a reason for the vote, it was a damn serious thought that I have. I want this game to get to day 2 asap because it's fucking stale.

As from a guide somewhere:
'Long days benefit town. Even longer days hurt town.'

There's no need to take this to deadline, because it would give nothing more than ending the day soon.

[TierShift]

I'm not convinced 326 is necessarily from town. Why again can't new scum post that? He didn't even claim....

Anyway, since a cxin lynch won't be happening
UNVOTE:
VOTE: emp
Where's this guy at anyway?

I'd be down for a zekrom PL too, if necessary.

[TierShift]

uhhh Tiershift's #352 is actually a poor post...like seriously. I might be eatiing humble pie on that read.

@Tier

- why would you policy lynch Zekrom..?

Why is it bad? I don't agree on the common opinion that cxinlee's willingness to selfhammer shows that he's town, an opinion whiskers shares.

Then, I said I might be in for a zekrom PL because he is someone that if town, won't be nightkilled and you don't want him around for LyLo.

[TierShift]

I'm also gonna say that I thoroughly agree with whiskers' 353, especially this:

Which is great, except he's not simply dumbtown for threatening to do it. He'd be dumbtown if he had actually done it.
RainbowDash's interpretation of it is by far the worst one. She says that, because he gave reads and threatened to self-hammer, that makes him super-town. Because scum would just selfhammer.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a cxin-RBD scumteam.

I don't like cxin's last post. His explanation of feeling suicidal and losing all hope doesn't quite sit right with me, given how easily he goes back to his old play, acting like nothing has ever happened. To me it's all just a big bunch of AtE that you are all falling for.

[TierShift]

There is definitely scummy intent in that post, point is, is he smart enough to have put that intent there on purpose?

[TierShift]

Uh this guy will pick wrongly in LyLo and he'll consistently be someone that will be hated on. I don't want him around, even though I'm not sure he's scum.

Read 362 and tell me you want him around.

[TierShift]

Everyone was calling out cx to be town and unvoting so I thought thw lynch wasn't happening. Still very interested if the concensus on that

willingness

to selfhammer changes.

I'd rather not PL either if we can lynch emp or cx but everything is better than NL.

[TierShift]

But Tiershift, Tiershift doesn't have that excuse either way.

He's been consistently against progress the whole day

, has relied on crap arguments, and

generally gives reads that look strategic rather than genuine.

I take offense by the bolded. This is pretty damn fucking untrue, I have consistently been trying to move the day forward (eg attacking you and whiskers to get a read on you two formed, pressuring cxinlee and seeing him being scummy as a result of and more) and you using this on me with all the lurkers around makes no fucking sense. The part in italics also remains unexplained. Your arguments have become worse and worse and it seems like you're making it all up.
Stop offending me and explain your arguments.

[TierShift]

vote: Zekrom25

I'm not super-confident he's scum but it's plausible enough to lynch.
He's been under the spotlight for a while now and I don't see a town reaction out of him.

Whoa man, careful.
He might be potentially town.
Also maybe probably the nightkill.

Why don't you wait until town starts voting town, bro?
Jeez, it's like you don't know how to play.

[TierShift]

waht

QFT

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxinlee
Because apparently a cx lynch is possibly happening but an emp lynch isn't.

[TierShift]

This is not helping. Stop it.

[TierShift]

The fuck

[TierShift]

That's an insanely good list, bulba. Only position I don't understand is pasch, why do you think he's scum?

Do you finally have a reason to vote me emp or am I still lying about everything or whatever?

[TierShift]

That's an insanely good list, bulba. Only position I don't understand is pasch, why do you think he's scum?

But Tiershift, Tiershift doesn't have that excuse either way. He's been consistently against progress the whole day, has relied on crap arguments, and generally gives reads that look strategic rather than genuine.

Strange!

TierShift, are you still "against progress"? Is Pasch's read on you accurate and correct? Apt? Because right now, I could pretty much go ahead and say that either you or he is scum. Which is it?

I don't understand you. Why is necessarily either of us scum?
I've already said I've never been against progress and that I found it offensive that he called me out for that. No, pasch's read on me is not accurate because I'm town.
I don't get what you mean with apt here.

Lemme just say that I find it very hard to read people who continuously push for me, because I'm very biased in such circumstances. Therefore, I'm trying to see how other people read him and why.

[TierShift]

I'm pretty obviously town as well.
Psyche is NOT solidly town, null at best.

Explain this. Both.

Can someone who isn't Bulba and didn't spend all of day 1 arguing with Empking over what amounted to nothing weigh in on Emp and someone who isn't Emp weigh in on Bulba? I feel like both of them spent the whole of day 1 arguing and voting each other without giving any reasons why the rest of us would agree, which is a great distancing tactic. I think that if one of them is scum, they probably both are.

This is awful. Really awful. This sets up both bulba and emp lynches. If one flips town, the other one is scum. If one flips scum, the other one is scum.

[TierShift]

Well, completely unable to sell it to you, that is.

[TierShift]

Still on emp/cx but I first want clarity around pasch before voting.

[TierShift]

Sounds good.

VOTE: empking

[TierShift]

Tiershift:

I don't like cxin's last post. His explanation of feeling suicidal and losing all hope doesn't quite sit right with me,

Can you elaborate on why it didn’t “sit right with me”?

Do you think I had lost all hope when I made that post?

Do you think me “losing all hope” could have driven me to self-hammer?


Whiskers:
So, you have a policy of lynching the useless and anti-town players, regardless of alignment?


My townpool at this point is Empking, Bulbazak (Yes, I think it’s a town fight), Psyche, Maxous, Dry-fit and Kenobi.

What I thought of your post, was that it didn't show alignment. It might have been you losing all hope, but it might just as much have been you faking just that and using it as AtE against a you lynch.

@kenobi:
my read on cx has been slightly wavering lately. The original reasons for voting him were lack of scumhunting and very opportunistic play coupled with defensiveness. His last posts show a slight town mindset tho, I think.

My read on emp has only been strengthened by recent happenings. It started as his lack of doing anything but calling his attacker, bulb, scummy for being 'wrong about everything', which makes no sense.
Now, I attacked him and ended up in his scumreads for an evenly bad reason, 'constantly being dishonest'.
Now you attack him, ken and guess what happens? You end up in his scumpile, for 'inane lies'.

And this:

Empking, why don't you stop waffling and give us some solid reads? With justification.

If people can't be bothered to read my posts, I can't be bothered to make posts for other people to read. My posts are to ascertain alignments, but since nobody, in the entire game, has read enough of my posts to know why, for example, I find Bulb scummy; then I don't see how it'd be useful justifying any other read.

Town:
Psyche - Only player reading my posts
Dry - Good read
Pasche - Good read

Null:
Everyone else not below or above.

Scum:
Bulb - of matters of fact he's wrong, the vast vast majority of time.
Tier - His first couple of pages are clearly trying to avoid the 'he didn't talk about Bulb/he defended Bulb/he bussed Bulb' trap once one of them flip.
Kenobi - His posts this page were clearly looking for reasons to vote me rather than finding me scummy. Seriously, half his reasoning were just inane lies. The other half was for voting Tier without giving a reason, but Tier voting me with no reason was apparently incredibly unremarkable.

He's obviously using the fact that he's better and above us and we all don't understand him as a point in his defense, when it really isn't.

[TierShift]

I have made up my mind about pasch.
After his 68 and 85 he looked very town to me. But then it all started going downhill.
He went all-out on the newbies, which I disliked and showed pretty heavily. Then pasch went on onto me, for defending my scumbuddies, which was a pretty weak argument. I've continuously asked for explanation and gotten bits like this:

Does anyone actually think that TierShift is town?

I think a lynch would improve the quality of this game. Discussion has been stale and taking another 10 days is gonna give us nothing but apathy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cxinlee

PLEASE CAN WE KILL THIS!?!?!

But Tiershift, Tiershift doesn't have that excuse either way. He's been consistently against progress the whole day, has relied on crap arguments, and generally gives reads that look strategic rather than genuine.

Look back. There really is nothing more. It looks like he saw that I'd been getting a few not-so-town reads and then jumped onto me because he saw an easy target.

Then, his wavering on emp and bulba:

Empking and Bulba's arguments don't look particularly alignment indicative at all. It looks more like ego than anything useful. If either of you have a real argument to make about the other, please make it in a concise manner addressed to town, not just an argument with each other. Empking in general looks townier than Bulba, though.

Which is pretty weird, seeing that emp did absolutely nothing, while bulba hunted outside of emp.
Basically nothing changed in the emp vs bulba argument in between this and the next post below.
In this post he's supporting the emp wagon, but makes it very very clear that if emp is scum, bulba is also scum, on basis of absolutely nothing. I quote:

Can someone who isn't Bulba and didn't spend all of day 1 arguing with Empking over what amounted to nothing weigh in on Emp and someone who isn't Emp weigh in on Bulba? I feel like both of them spent the whole of day 1 arguing and voting each other without giving any reasons why the rest of us would agree, which is a great distancing tactic. I think that if one of them is scum, they probably both are.

So, first he thought emp was townier than bulba for no reason at all, then nothing changed and now emp is a good lynch but also if bulba is going down too?

Pasch and emp very very much look like scumbuddies to me.

Onto another topic, me, Kenobi, Whiskers and bulba all think creepily much alike, which I think is a good sign.

[TierShift]

presuming two players are connected without independent reasons to think both are scum is bad play imo

and now emp is a good lynch but also if bulba is going down too?

misleading framing
also what kind of topsy-turvey language is "but also if"?
what is that supposed to convey that "if" or even "also if" doesn't?

sorry, I meant only if, not also if.

I tried to express that pasch suddenly supports an emp lynch but that he prepares himself to get bulba lynched if emp flips scum, while there is really no reason to do so.

[TierShift]

Shh, don't let pasch know that zekrom was actually a reverse death miller...

[TierShift]

SSSHHHHH BULBA

[TierShift]

Plot twist.

Why?

[TierShift]

Prod doge

Here's your assignment, Cx. Tell me what alignment three players are and why. Any three. Well, three that aren't dead or you. Contribute SOMETHING.

Okay reread tomorrow for real.

Now make this happen

[TierShift]

Okay finally got that reread in. I still like Tier for scum for reasons I've already given.

Pasch and emp very very much look like scumbuddies to me.

Also this is either delusional or scum.

Explain. Also the first part.

I'm also thinking the cx wagon was a distraction and that he's town. The scummy players on his wagon are of course Tier and Maxous. I haven't seen anything terribly town from Maxous, and his last attack on Empking, saying that he's scum because all of his suspects suspected him, looks like fake scumhunting to me.

What is this, wagon analysis without a flip? Regarding a wagon you were on?

Pasch looks very town for his early play, and nothing since then has made me change my view on him.

This is pretty easy now, isn't it? What about all the recent happenings around pasch? Is all of that wrong? I didn't hear you about it earlier when we were attacking pasch. Why don't you defend your townread?

Kenobi is probably scum. I feel like he's been buddying me. And his early posting from the sidelines looked scummier on a reread than the first time. Also his interactions with Tiershift make them look like buddies from me. Kenobi has been defending Tier this game day

That's pretty shit reasoning right there, pretty much the same I got called out for wrt zekrom. Bulba has also been defending me, scumteam found? Get out.

Try if you're town at least, because this looks scummy as fuck.

[TierShift]

This dry-fit case of kenobi's makes me really like ken and I'm dumbfounded to actually have to agree with it.

To you. But people find different things scummy. So I'm scummy because you don't agree with a case I made?

No it was because the case on me was bad and there was not a single scumtell in there. Now stop being a jackass and restate your case on me because you don't have one with actual scumtells.

[TierShift]

I already have two scumreads with wagons on them so...why would I be afraid of that happening?

[TierShift]

V/la till sunday evening

[TierShift]

Are we suddenly living in a world of objective scumtells that everyone agrees upon? I think your scummy or bringing up the possibility of a policy lynch on Zekrom. Post 303 is a passive agressive push on cxinlee without looking to get your own hands dirty. Your vote on Whiskers for suspecting the newbies after you yourself began suspecting the newbies. A strange stance on Empking calling him "under the radar" to shift suspicion to him. Your most recent few posts feel very off as well. This whole thing about my attacks on you not containing "scumtells," as if there's some objective list of such things. You may not think any of these things are scumtells, but you're not one of the people I have to convince.

I brought up a PL on zek? I said that I was fine with it, while he was already being wagoned. None of my wanted suspects were getting lynched and I would agree on a PL, that's different from trying to manipulate people into the PL.
You just majorly sheeped your ass on that wagon, so I really can't see how my reason for voting him is worse.

You are just majorly misrepping small things I do and I think it's on purpose. Stuff like a vote on Whiskers that I already explained, I wasn't convinced by his input and wanted to hear more. Saying that I use 'under the radar' to shift suspicion onto emp, it's attention that is shifted then and not suspicion, you know that.

I've been trying to shift attention to people that I think are scummy and most of your case is bending that against me, by calling them 'passive aggressive pushes' and 'shifting suspicion by calling him 'under the radar''. Stop using my proactivity against me.

[TierShift]

Bulba, have recent happenings shifted your view on dry-fit?

[TierShift]

What do you think of his case on me? Can you elaborate on the read?

[TierShift]

This dry-fit case of kenobi's makes me really like ken

and I'm dumbfounded to actually have to agree with it.

what did you mean by the bolded?

I saw him as a super big newb day 1, but now I find myself agreeing with him.

[TierShift]

wassup with that unvote?

[TierShift]

Why say this after unvoting twice in quick succession on perfectly acceptable wagons for that stage of the game? If it was that you were the only vote on said wagons you dropped off, then wouldn't the choice have been an easy join the wagon that already had multiple votes?

Uh, I specifically asked for input from other players, it was page 2 and I wanted something that could help me form a read on someone.

A quickwagon during rvs that didn't even reach tipping point? It's still just random guessing at that stage regardless of whether or not you think you can somehow pull a wagon analysis on something with no flips. Could I move this statement into an assumption that all wagons with 3 or more people must contain a scum?

Looking back on it, it was pretty stupid, but not a bad starting point to get some discussion going. I didn't realize that it didn't get to tipping point since I've only played micros/newbies before, I thought we were past it.

Cx, explain what's wrong with whiskers' vote and what your read on him is.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pasch
After reconsidering where my vote should be, I'd really rather see pasch go now. Emp has been anti-town a lot, but I don't know if there's truth in what Whiskers says about him or not. He might just be like this, deserving of a lynch, but impossible to actually read.

Pasch on the other hand I feel has been spewing hate all around and is more likely to actually flip scum than emp.

L-2 now

[TierShift]

Yeah votes started swinging that way. That's exactly why I'm on the wagon, since they are both scumreads and I'd prefer to have one of them go today. Why would I stay on the smaller wagon?

[TierShift]

I don't claim unless intent to hammer.

[TierShift]

You strangely seem unconvinced of me being scum.

[TierShift]

Well that was...odd.

[TierShift]

hmm...upon rereading I find that I cannot support my statements previously made. SUCKS. Pasch's latest posts actually seem pretty good to me.

I'd now much rather see emp go.

And I know I'm gonna be called out on just sheeping the current momentum, but when I find that I can't support my statements, I'm usually wrong.

ugh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: emp

[TierShift]

And obviously, you voting me and then Tier deciding his previous vote was unjustifiable is clearly not a coincidence.

Realizing=/=deciding.

Is this the kind of argument you are coming after me with now?

Are I and bulb still butt buddies?

[TierShift]

Wait. That probably happened.

Why didn't we think of this before.
Can everyone voting pasch vote someone else (eg emp)?

[TierShift]

I've been expressing my scumreads both vocally and strongly so I have no idea what you're getting at. I might have been waffling back and forth inbetween my scumreads but it's not like I'm agreeing with any lynch out there.

I've heard very very little people actually opposed to an emp lynch so if they are here please speak up and explain why emp is town.

Cheery, saying that you'd want to spare a mislynch is pretty moot as we will want to use our lynches as much as possible. It's like proposing a NL just to ensure someone not talking to their buddies.

[TierShift]

Yes, and if someone dies by poison tonight, we're going to have lost one of the lynches we can use later, as it would if we stuff up take us into mylo instead of lylo.

That's assuming everything goes as it should...not accounting for any possible PR's.

Still if it goes as it should we can NL later. I don't really see the use in lynching pasch now.

Why won't someone voting pasch weigh in?

[TierShift]

Dry/max what makes you so sure cx is town?

[TierShift]

I mean, the way they are talking about 'mislynch' and doing wagon analysis....

Cx, any sort of comment on the last few pages? What do you think about dry-fit? Empking? Has nothing changed for you about him?

[TierShift]

Okay pasch, lemme respond to that. The characteristics you have presented, flipflopping and bad play, are part of my town game, bulba knows that and I can back that up with completed games if you want me to.
I don't agree that my votes are full of OMGUS, that I'm not backing up my ideas and that I don't have theories. I also don't see how my play has been newbscum or how I try to avoid responsibility for my votes.
It would be nice if you'd back up your statements.

I don't understand why you tracked RBD nor why you didn't get a 'no results' PM, which is pretty bog standard nowadays.

mod: if an investigative role would not get a result, would you send them a 'no results' PM?

[TierShift]

You also have an ISO full of 'I've said before why Tier is scum, I'm not telling again'.

What I'm trying to say, is that I'm often not very sure on my reads and wobbling quite a bit (which I actually haven't done that much this game, my scumreads stayed pretty much the same only my vote shifted a lot). I'm used to people calling that 'bad play', but it's not pro-scum in any manner and you pushing that for my lynch is ridiculous.

In your last sentence, you seem to want to lynch me regardless of my alignment. Ew.

Showing that you're waffling on your reads=/=pro-scum
Waffling on your reads but not showing=pro-scum.

[TierShift]

Pasch, why did you track RBD?

[TierShift]

I'm doubtful and bulba is doubtful too, as far as I can see. It's a pretty weird unnecessary claim and why he targeted RBD yet remains to be explained.
Pasch's claim also means he was roleblocked for whatever reason I don't see.

[TierShift]

Empking wagon is not inspiring.

Hmm? He was a fine lynch before?

[TierShift]

Huh, this actually looks like a legit claim. Still, I wonder why he tracked RBD and why RBD didn't poison anyone.

Pasch will most likely be dying tonight, either because he's scum and lying about not being poisoned and he's just claiming tracker to get a chance to talk to his buds or because he's a tracker that scum obviously cannot leave alive.

So pasch, if you could give some big reads list before day end, please?

[TierShift]

Yeah, I changed my mind after hearing he got his results in late. Still, he's probably dying anyway so what I think of him is not really gonna matter.

[TierShift]

You forget cx and ken

But yeah, I see no one actually opposed to an emp lynch. Let's do that one.

[TierShift]

But if I had to choose between Emp and Tier to lynch, I would choose emp.

You kinda have to choose here.

[TierShift]

Also, I'm quite done arguing with pasch and dry, who are just saying that my play has been like that of scum but completely refusing to provide examples at any point. Pasch also implies vote changing and not being sure on your reads is pro-scum.

[TierShift]

Goodsruffs whiskers

He better be scun

[TierShift]

I did my rereading and reassessing overnight.

First of all, I'd like to apologize for my lazy and survivalistic behaviour at the end of day 2. It was one of the factors that led us to this lazy lynch, but I still don't have any idea why emp didn't claim. I have been acting scummily lately and I don't know why I wasn't just lynched instead of emp. I think there was scum on the emp wagon, but I also think scum split up.
So maybe two on the emp wagon and one on me.

Thinking hard and thouroughly about it, I think we've been looking for scum in the wrong places. The one likely scum on my wagon is probably not pasch with his claim and all, but Aj. He's looked some sort of disconnected from this game and I hope I can pinpoint what makes him scummy more later on.
So, then there's probably two scum on the emp wagon. Not the ones saying 'Tier is a good wagon, but emp is better', but more the ones that were fishing for towncred after I would be lynched, the ones defending me.

For some reason, bulba seems to fit the criteria and him not noticing me buddying him and calling this equal to my towngame from before are all pretty odd.
I'm scratching my head as to who the other scum on the emp wagon would be, because I've quite dismissed cx from being scum. I'm yet to look into maxous some more, but whiskers and ken are town town.

[TierShift]

Actually scratch the townread on pasch, just more not sure more than anything.

[TierShift]

Uh, you do realize every single player was voting someone, right?

[TierShift]

Hmm, that is a sudden switch.

I can't see in that post why I went from a strong townread to a strong scumread, is it because I stopped blindly trusting you?

[TierShift]

Also, I'm not lynching Dry-Fit or Cheery Dog for any reason.

This, if it wasn't very obvious to anyone.
Not lynching them.

[TierShift]

Well, I think I want to lynch on the emp wagon today, seeing that my wagon is all shrouded with possible masons.

So, I did my reassessing of the emp wagon.
Whiskers is very town, I have to search for posts that don't ring like complete town to me.
Kenobi is town by virtue of being new and actually scumhunting, not being afraid to change reads and me recognizing a little bit of my first towngames in him.
Cxinlee has been, well, not very helpful. He says he doesn't have any reads, but isn't out there to get them. His thought processes lately, have been very transparent, however, and I think there's town motivation locked up somewhere. Not very sure though.
The there's maxous. He's helpful, tries to scumhunt, but it all seems a bit superficial. He doesn't strike me as overly scummy, but 382 doesn't look like town. I'd be down to lynch him, but I'd rather lynch this guy.
Bulba.
Liked him at the start, but lately he's been pinging a lot. I get the feeling that he was trying to get me to pull the emp wagon for him, trying to stay out of the spotlight after that first fight. His reads have mostly been static apart from this sudden change on me.
In 694, just after the hammer, he seems to be setting himself up to push for me. Before that, he only called me town at every occasion he could find. It's weird that it just all topples at the hammer.
Now, he uses the reasoning from that vote again, but now in a different context:

Using a lynch he pushed to springboard other lynches leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think there's more than one scum on my wagon and the fact that I'm using that is not enough to warrant this sudden switch.

VOTE: bulbazak

[TierShift]

Props to whoever protected me (or whoever you protected) last night. I tracked CX. He went nowhere.

Now, CAN WE PLEASE LYNCH TIERSHIFT!?

VOTE: Tiershift

Hmm, who else on the emp wagon is scum?
Since you've been convinced of me being scum all game now, have you already found a single one of my buddies?

[TierShift]

Bulba, why was I such a strong townread before, then? Do you think I've been scummy all along?

Now, bulbi, try to assume that I'm town for a second here. Don't make lousy jokes like 'but you're not' or anything of the kind.
As I'm town, I know that both lynch targets, me and emp, were town. Since we have two wagons that every single person voted on, it's only reasonable to assume scum split up, right? Now, I have 2 lynchpools of each five players with at least one scum each. In the one pool there's my wagon, with at least one mason and a possible tracker and a little scumread I'm not sure of (AJ), while in the other pool, there's 2 firm townreads. Why am I not allowed to use that information in my scumhunting process and why is it scummy to do so? Is that really all you have on me?

[TierShift]

I saw your posturing in twilight. I didn't like it.

Eh, I was inebriated and just complimenting whiskers on hammering emp and not me, really.

[TierShift]

Uh, I forgot you replaced psyche. Hmm.

I'm yet to completely form a scumread on you, AJ, but I was just wanting to point out that my earlier townread of you was not quite justified and that I didn't really see you as town.

The disconnect wasn't really based on you not being active around deadline, more on you being not reallt inbetween the players, rather above. I suck at explaining this.

Anyway, I'll come back onto the scum on my wagon later since I really really want to sort the emp wagon first.

[TierShift]

My scumhunting now essentially is PoE, I'm having a pool of 5 people with 2 firm townreads, by PoE you, cx and max are left, with you being scummiest. How is that not PoE?

Don't even try to convince anyone of how I would push whiskers for deadline hammering the wagon I was pushing. Are you really trying to say I was setting myself up to do that? That's absolutely ridiculous, not just a tad, but immensely.
I have not expressed any suspicion of whiskers lately and suggedting my post was posturing to do so just isn' t correct.

I was just hoping emp would flip scum, which he didn't, sadly.

If you want, I can even link drunkposts made at the same time elsewhere.

I should probably just not drunkpost.

But yeah, you pushing only that is ridiculous, as said.

[TierShift]

Do you want this? Really?

[TierShift]

Eh okay, you're obvmason to me. You've tried to steer away from the emp lynch and the 'let's lynch Tier before more unnecessary claims come out' is pretty telling. Also the fact that you're not hard pushing for my lynch shows me that you just wanted to lynch me over emp, not wanted to lynch me necessarily.

Cheery may be the third mason if there is one since the rest on my wagon have expressed doubts about emp being town while cheery just avoided him.

[TierShift]

So, uh, you were notified of your BP being used up? Seems awkward, but would poison dissipate the 1-shot BP? I don't think it's too farfetched to have RBD poison emp.

[TierShift]

*shift on Pasche

Uh, I forgot you replaced psyche. Hmm.

Wait, I read wrongly. For some reason I thought you said psyche and I thought you replaced him -.-

Well, I didn't do a very sudden shift on pasche, I already said his claim looked more legit at the end of day 2, if you look back. Most of all, I just really don't wanna lynch a claimed tracker now.

[TierShift]

So wait, you're telling us that we probably have scum+town killing role+SK?

I really don't see another option either, maybe a 1-shot-vig or a 1-shot extra scumkill?

How would you explain the no kill with 2 anti town killing roles? BP+doctor+something else? Idgi.

I think espeonage dislikes modding long games

[TierShift]

Also, I'm not lynching Dry-Fit or Cheery Dog for any reason.

This, if it wasn't very obvious to anyone.
Not lynching them.

Oh hey, more buddying.

Yeah I'm buddying pretty hard day 3.

I'm wondering why no one is looking into bulba's sudden shift. Doesn't anyone else think that it's weird he bases his scumread off of a single post?

Whiskers, what do you think of his sudden shift? Aj?

[TierShift]

Pasch, why did you target cx?

[TierShift]

I see you're still dodging me.

[TierShift]

Tracking cx is a fucking scumclaim. Cx basically claimed VT when he was willing to selfhammer. If cx is scum there's no way scum would let them do the NK, seeing pasch has suspicions of him. There is no way a tracker would track a scummy player who claimed vt.

pasch did not track cx!

VOTE: pasch

Also notice the happy little appeal in his latest post so cuuute

[TierShift]

Not saying that cx is conftown. At all.

Pasch knew he was the one to get poisoned if anyone.

[TierShift]

Why the crap would pasch track cx? Hmm?

If even pasch has no idea it's pretty obvious that he's lying.

[TierShift]

You all make me feel like I'm overthinking this...

But why would a tracker track a useless VT if town instead of something confirmable later on? Why didn't pasch, for instance, track me or whoever else he was suspecting? I just can't see it.

[TierShift]

Hmm, I suppose you're right. Still, I find it doubtful that pasch chooses targets whose results are very easy to replicate, when there's quite a few people doubting his claim now. Perhaps he can conftracker himself N3?

[TierShift]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bulba

Whiskers, I want to hear what you think of bulba's sudden switch.

[TierShift]

Okay pasch. You do need to confirm yourself night 3, really.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bulba

Whiskers, I want to hear what you think of bulba's sudden switch.

So you try to attack a town PR, fail, and then come back to me for catching you posturing an attack based on the Emp wagon?

Is it you, scum bulba?

[TierShift]

I think he can conf himself by tracking someone who went somewhere? He's then confirmed to that person and we lynch that person before pasch in all circumstances if that person confirms pasch to be a tracker.

Unless someone is going as far as to suggest a scum tracker *cough*occam's razor lol*cough*

[TierShift]

It's taking the theory that needs the least assumptions. A scum tracker is quite a huge assumption, while a town tracker is not.

[TierShift]

I've actually come all the way around to suspecting that maybe Tiershift is just sort of a crap player-- by which I mean, he's a townie, a vanilla townie. He's trying really fucking hard for things to make sense, and they just don't, because he doesn't have all of the information; the information of the informed minority. So he's grasping at straws, and he's doing it very obviously and clumsily, jumping from one theory to the next, closest theory that makes sense. And yes, it all looks very bad and scummy and clumsy and bad. But that's because he's a shitty player-- by which I mean a vanilla townie-- and we really can't hold it against him. Can we?

Uh, thanks, I guess?

But you're mostly right, my play looks shitty as town. It must be an odd type of argument for me to try and use that to attack someone with, but bear with me.

The only other player here to know that my town game is like this (clumsy) is bulba. Yet he scumreads me for a minor thing (drunkposting in twilight). He knows I'm like this as town but yet he sees an easy target. It's just wrong.

Will you all please tell me why you're not even considering bulba for today's lynch?

[TierShift]

Nah. You know better.

[TierShift]

I find the certainty and naivity with which max defends me disconcerting.

Max, why aren't you voting bulba anymore?

[TierShift]

Already doing so, it's just no one wants to get rid of their shitty deathtunnels on me
Honestly, everyone who is on my wagon isn't trying to figure out the game except for whiskers....

And max, what do you think of bulba now? Would you wanna lynch him?

[TierShift]

But suddenly, everybody who is voting you is suddenly not trying to figure out the game? Bull crap!

Okay maybe just aj and pasch up to just now.

[TierShift]

That's everyone minus you and whiskers tho <3

[TierShift]

Uh, what does that have to do with the previous statement? But no, whiskers probably isn't third party.

[TierShift]

Because third party don't just claim?
Plus, if there's a SK like dry-fit's story seems to suggest, it would be weird to have another third party role.
I'm not used to playing mini themes, but I can't remember ever having seen two third party roles in a normal-ish mini theme.

[TierShift]

Yeah, so you think SK would just claim they're 3rd party+inviting the tracker to conf themselves by tracking them?
Yeah, no.
Is there even a trackable non-SK 3rd party role? Can't think of one.

[TierShift]

Bulb, something I forgot, why is pasch a townread now?

[TierShift]

Do you consider a scum tracker a possibility?

[TierShift]

So, cheery, I see that the doc protect claim with a mason alive is pretty awkward, but then again, not super likely to come from a scum tracker.
For me he's either a town tracker or a non-tracker scum. Even if you don't see it the same way, why won't you at least let him prove the tracker part? It's not like he's unlynchable tomorrow.

Pasch, if you don't track whiskers tonight I'll take it as a scumclaim.

as he's basically the only player I consider for-sure town

Why is max certain town?

[TierShift]

Whiskers said she is a trackable third party so how again am I trying to out PR's?

Congratulating the doc is a scumtell so don't try to turn that on me.

You have the opportunity to confirm yourself without outing a PR (by tracking whiskers) so you should do that over the small chance of having a shaky guilty on someone. Don't you agree?

[TierShift]

Isn't it?

[TierShift]

I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally

Are you even serious
You take that as unconfirmable?

[TierShift]

I disapprove of a whiskers lynch.
I don't think non-townwin-sharing third party would ever claim third party.
But now I do wanna know her wincon.

[TierShift]

Tiershift is in the lead

Can't touch this!

it's your idea that Tiershift should be grateful to me and eating out of my hand because I'm the guy defending him. Scum do defend mislynchable town sometimes.
He should be having a look at my reasons why etc.
saying "you're not in a position to disagree with him defending you" is a lame attack and is

more likely to come from town

on the other hand.. his whole "I've been obv town-posting, people are just shitty tunnelling me" when in his previous post he literally called me out for NAIVELY DEFENDING HIM WITH A WEIRD AMOUNT OF CERTAINTY is a different kettle of fish.

I was kidding about that obvtown part, if that wasn't obvious. I do agree with the rest of the post, AJ is hardly looking for intentions behind behaviour. I don't see how that makes him town, though.

[TierShift]

Whiskers, I just wanna know something: what drove you to claimng?

[TierShift]

And what kind of reason is that not to tell us more about your role?

[TierShift]

I still have no idea why anyone would vote whiskers, who voluntarily shared role info with us. Does anyone truly believe an anti-town 3rd party would just claim 3rd party? Really?
I think she actually is third party by now, seeing how long she keeps this up.

Dry, why don't you come over for a bulba vote? I'm actually down to vote max as well, but it seems like there is less support for a max lynch.

[TierShift]

I still have no idea why anyone would vote whiskers, who voluntarily shared role info with us. Does anyone truly believe an anti-town 3rd party would just claim 3rd party? Really?
I think she actually is third party by now, seeing how long she keeps this up.

Dry, why don't you come over for a bulba vote? I'm actually down to vote max as well, but it seems like there is less support for a max lynch.

Tier's going for

any lynch

again?

Maybe I do somehow have him and pasch mixed up with alignments.

The there's maxous. He's helpful, tries to scumhunt, but it all seems a bit superficial. He doesn't strike me as overly scummy, but 382 doesn't look like town. I'd be down to lynch him, but I'd rather lynch this guy.
Bulba.

Hmm?

@Bulba: I don't think mad role speculation will help us with anything. Maybe you got the flavor right, but guessing the exact role is hardly possible.

[TierShift]

claiming third party isn't just in the town interests, it's in his own as well - he's guaranteeing to avoid a night kill.

This shit is good max.

I'm finally seeing why an anti-town 3rd party would claim 3rd party.

Problem that we're having, is that we will probably be in the same situation tomorrow as today. I think there has been far too little discussion as to who is scum, people refuse to see other people's points, etc.

So, whiskers would make a decent deadline lynch but I'd hugely prefer if we caught scum today. I'll be rereading a bit and maybe show some new insights afterwards.

[TierShift]

Holy crap is that a SK slip.

[TierShift]

Uh, are you suggesting I'm looking for a reason to join your wagon? I'm pretty sure it's not necessary.

The fact that he thinks it would be lylo means 2 NK's thus he knows there's a SK. Not a slip?

[TierShift]

I've done a bit of rereading. I don't see bulb and pasch as scum together, seeing how bulb handled pasch's claim. Pasch is probably town anyway, I see now.

What keeps jumping out at me, is this:

Bulb: Why would you know that 'flipflopping and bad play, are part of [Tier's] town game'?

Because I've played with town Tier before. And I would charactarize Tier's play as having a sort of genuine earnestness behind trying to figure things out.

Before you're metaing on this scale, have you also played with him as scum?

Not yet, but I expect that there would be a difference in the way he would reach conclusions.

Using a lynch he pushed to springboard other lynches leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

It still doesn't look like a genuine scumread to me and the way how this is his only argument for me-scum versus all the others he has given for me-town really stinks.
Plus, the way in which he didn't really doubt pasch's claim at any moment, but just acted a little bit surprised and then went along doesn't really look like a town reaction to someone claiming, more like scum who know the claim to be true.

[TierShift]

I'm liking cx less upon a reread. He has a sense of...not wanting to figure things out...being happy just to stroll by. He seemed to scumread pasch but then unvoted in an unexplained manner. He townread emp for whatever reason I can't see but still decided to vote him. He doesn't actually care about his reads day 3. He's been posting elsewhere but just letting this game rot.

Does anybody have meta on him?

[TierShift]

Can you link me to a similar towngame? Do you have a scumgame you can link to?

[TierShift]

If there are 2 third party roles in this game, (has there ever been if a 13 player game? ), that would suggest a 2 mafia team because otherwise it would be a bit unfair.

Unfair to whom? The town? It also seems a bit unfair to the scum to only have two, right?

But I'm also wondering, does anybody have a recollection of there being 2 3rd party roles in a mini theme and can you remember any instance of there being just 2 scum in a mini theme?

[TierShift]

Uh whiskers, do you actually think pasch is scum, or are you just trying to save your hide?

I still wonder if there is any incentive for you to try and make town win the game.

[TierShift]

Yay someone is finally seeing all the shit I said day 1.

You doing this so vigilantly probably answers my question.

[TierShift]

Max, what happened to you defending me?

[TierShift]

Sorry for expressing concerns in you, dear.

[TierShift]

. Whiskers can wait (though I wouldn't exclude the possibility that Whiskers is scum and not third party)

Well that's just weak as shit. If you think he's scum, don't be a fucking wuss about it.

Doesn't really sound like you.

[TierShift]

This wagon sucks

standing by to drop hammer.

If this is intent I'll claim but I'd really rather not. Does the wait wait wait mean you don't want to hammer or what?

On another note, not many people seem to have responded to my bulba suspicions

Which probably means he's scum and his buddies are ignoring it. There're people out there not even addressing the fact that I attack bulba.

[TierShift]

You have suspicions of bulba.

Why aren't you voting your suspects?

[TierShift]

Eh. You don't seem to be truly suspecting me nor trying to get people to vote bulba.

It's weak is what I'm saying.

[TierShift]

Meh none of your arguments have been the least bit inspired.

It's just that I expected more from you after your play the earlier days and I'm a bit let down. You seem not to care about getting the right people lynched that much.

And yes, I think you're scummy for it.

[TierShift]

he's scumhunting well, unlike you, who's pulling an Emp: going after anyone who suspects you.

I'm actually pulling a reverse Emp, my suspects this day (bulb and max) both attacked me after I outed my suspicion on them, not the other way around.

Now, since everyone is dead set on lynching me: I have a 1-shot investigative PR. I'd rather not fullclaim it, since it kinda takes the oomph out of the role. I didn't use it up to now since it would have been most likely a wasted shot. I'm gonna use the shot tonight.

I'm trackable and I get semi-confirmable results.

[TierShift]

Cause it would probably have been wasted last night?

F this shit I'm a 1-shot watcher.

It's why I wanted pasch to track whiskers since that would be confirmable.

You guys can direct me to wherever you want since I'm pretty sure either my results are confirmable or the fact that I go there is.
If not, quicklynch me tomorrow.

[TierShift]

Who on, really?

[TierShift]

Yeah I was wanting to do that too. Scum won't kill him now I think.

But now I can just use it for the WIFOM?

[TierShift]

That's not nice

Like, seriously, you can quicklynch me tomorrow if my results are invalid.

[TierShift]

I don't understand you, AJ. I have to use my shot before LyLo/MyLo and we're not there yet. If we mislynch now, we'll be there tomorrow.

Who do you think was worth watching last night, really?

[TierShift]

Yeah, I thought of that only after day 3 had begun, sadly.

[TierShift]

Thinking about it, I should have watched dry N2, I was just dead set on using my shot N3 for some reason.

PR's are fucking wasted on me.

Anyway, I don't give a fuck if you think I'm lying, lynching a confirmable role that gets investigative results is just moronic in every sense.

Pasch, you should track me so we'll both be confirmed to each other. If you'd rather mislynch me now and then get the blame for it in MyLo/LyLo and lose us the game, be my guest.

Really how can you all still be voting a confirmable role?

P-edit:
Why would I watch the guy that won't be NK'd cause everyone thinks he's scum?

[TierShift]

Well, I just didn't think he'd be NK'd. As said, I wanted to use my shot as late as possible.

[TierShift]

Watcher is a weakish role to begin with

Lol

[TierShift]

Are we really lynching a confirmable role who can confirm someone else?

Great fucking job guys

There's no fucking way this town is ever gonna win

I just don't get it.

[TierShift]

1-Shot scum watcher?

Sure.

Now lynch pasch because he's a scum tracker?
Maybe dry-fit is a scum mason?

[TierShift]

Scum will win this.

[TierShift]

I had no idea I'd still be alive

AJ what were you doing at pasch's dead body? Hugging him goodbye?

VOTE: aj the epic

[TierShift]

I thought the hammer fell before deadline.

I don't think this game is wild enough to have 2 third party members, so whiskers is probs lying.

Current status:

Kenobi is obvtown to me, Dry-fit is unccd mason. And Whiskers I presume is third party.

Lynch pool is tier shift/cheery/bulba/ajtheepic

Do you think whiskers is SK or town?

[TierShift]

Why do we lose?

If SK doesn't shoot town and we lynch AJ it's all good.

Unless AJ is SK which ugh....

[TierShift]

I watched pasch and aj was the only one to go there.

[TierShift]

Massclaim?

Whiskers, you need to fullclaim anyway.

[TierShift]

Guys do you think AJ can be SK who shot pasch? Just doesn't make sense to me.

[TierShift]

I'm still having a non-SK feel from whiskers.

[TierShift]

That's why I think you aren't SK but mafia. Because he thought you were town.

[TierShift]

In that case bulba, its auto lose for town

We could end up with a prisoner's dilemma.

The way you're continuing about being autolose for town while there is a slim possibly it's not (as the mafia would know Whiskers has claimed third party), makes me think you just want more apathy and my townread on you is dodgy.

But for town to still win without resulting in a prisoner's dilemma. (or worse a king maker)
scum lynch today
whiskers to kill scum tonight. (we assume mafia decide not to kill whiskers while there are 2 members alive, so one townie dies)
We are now at 3:1:1 - lynch mafia/sk, preferably mafia as if it was wrong, the PA still comes in.
SK kills town
We lynch SK = town win.

This is incorrect in the most likely case of 3 mafia.
It's creepy that you are assuming two.

[TierShift]

Oh nvm
Reading is hard.

Bulbie what are your thoughts

[TierShift]

That's the shittiest reason to write someone off.

But yeah, let whiskers and our conftown dry come in.

[TierShift]

Do you believe that crap yourself?
This is worse than the way you were pushing for my lynch yesterday

Ergo, Cxin is scum, along with whoever of Tier/Aj is scum.

You're forgetting the third scum, is that yourself?

A/b/c scumteam sounds good here

[TierShift]

Ok cheery do you have opinions here

Your one big opinion died

[TierShift]

Ok nvm this let's not go 1v1 with AJ

I'm a serial killer.

Claiming a scum role feels glorious.

[TierShift]

VOTE: bulba

It should be very obvious that there is at least one scum on my wagon and I'm back to leaning bulba. Or bulba+AJ.

[TierShift]

Whiskers fullclaim please

Bulba do you think whiskers is not scum?

I'm also uncomfortable with the fact that Dry-Fit has done nothing to warrant a nightkill, with his "conf-town" status. He's conf-town. He should have been murdered ages ago. He's not posting. He's not doing anything. It's worrying me

How's it worrying? Mostly just plainly annoying.

[TierShift]

Btw, Bulbazak, how would TierSK "automatically lose" if he 1v1'd somebody and "was wrong"? Doesn't an SK want to lynch town today, avoid crosskills, and coast to endgame with the mafia?

You realize mafia will kill me if there's a town lynch right right

[TierShift]

Dry is town, plain and simple, don't be weird.

I doubt we have 2 3rd party roles here so I need you to claim.

[TierShift]

SK is pretty much equal to a town role here so anyone is free to counterclaim

If no one does, you can just assume I'm a SK, okay?

[TierShift]

Yo bulbie 1040 should make it pretty clear whiskers believes me to be the SK and doesn't CC me.

[TierShift]

Why? Serial Killer, assumedly, can't win with town. It can, however, win with scum.

No what
Are you really on this site for almost 3 years
Back to the wiki with you

Yo bulbie 1040 should make it pretty clear whiskers believes me to be the SK

and doesn't CC me.

Hello, I'm Whiskers and

go back to EpicMafia you scrub.

((that was @ TS, ofc))[/quote]
I don't even...

[TierShift]

Ok nvm this let's not go 1v1 with AJ

I'm a serial killer.

Claiming a scum role feels glorious.

So why did you not care about Whiskers claiming a third party yesterday?

Lol are you saying I should have claimed SK yesterday?
That's so dumb
The only thing I needed to do yesterday was to survive the day and then hit town at night so I couldn't be lynched today.

VOTE: bulba

It should be very obvious that there is at least one scum on my wagon and I'm back to leaning bulba. Or bulba+AJ.

Which one of your wagons are you talking about here

Actually I wouldn't be surprised with the day 2 actions if TS and Whiskers were actually a "3rd party" together and this game was possibly multiball.

VOTE: TierShiftp

Yesterday's wagon.

Are you seriously only voting me because you think it's multiball? Like really?

[TierShift]

The difference is that I don't think lynching either of you is in the town's best interest today, especially when Cxin has essentially claimed scum.

How has he?

[TierShift]

Yeah, I tried to be not seen as a SK yesterday, thought that would help me

[TierShift]

I need dry and ken to come in here and let their soft town voices speak

Aj is maybe town so he can come talk here too.

[TierShift]

It's MyLo now

If I had not hit town it would not have been MyLo and you could have lynched me. If you lynch me now scum wins.

[TierShift]

he's town and you are scum with bulba? that's how I feel about you not claiming.

[TierShift]

Good, good.

And cheerydog?

Null

But if you were the SK, why didn't you suspect Whiskers of being Mafia yesterday, or even crosskill her during the night to prevent this very situation?

Uh, I

wanted

to reach this situation. Now I can't be lynched, otherwise I would very likely be lynched.

He tried to discredit a method which would have led to a guaranteed scum lynch: Follow Whiskers (SK), because she knows who scum is. There is no town motivation for that.

What the actual crap is that
He didn't agree with a certain plan so he's scum? Just wtf? Town don't agree with rational plans all the time, gtfo.

he almost damned the town and himself by 1v1'ing me with his fake claim. That wouldn't be to his wincon to lose the town right yet unless he was scum.

Do you remember me retracting it, I surely do. It's just the insane scumminess bulba radiates that makes me not sure on your alignment. I thought you were scum before for sure.

Also, implying I'm "Maybe Town". Nice job, bro. Your job, Tiershift, is to sit their silently and let us decide if this is you gambitting as scum to get a potential mislynch. You have nothing useful to add to this conversation as your own motives are clearly not for town.

I think you're mistaken here, I need to lynch scum here to have any shot at reaching my wincon.

[TierShift]

Thing is, my late D3 play and my N3 play were optimal for a SK (not the rest of my play lol) and you can disagree with that but if you just think straight for a moment and place yourself in my position you'll know it was. I'm done discussing it now with bulb, whiskers, aj and cheery because I'm pretty certain at least 2 if not all scum are in there.

@Cxinlee and kenobi:
If my reads are only slightly accurate, I know I'm talking to town players here. Feel free to laugh at this if scum.

You are still alive and it's probably because you are new here and are easily swayed by the experienced scum. They are manipulating you like shit into voting me, but I'm asking you to disregard all the flawed logic in the above posts by bulb&co and just come to the conclusion on if I need a scum lynch or not yourself. I'll answer any questions you have.
And when you're done with that, please vote bulba.

[TierShift]

Okay just to get this clear, I've said this before when whiskers claimed.

SK's don't just claim third party without a reason

Okay?
Whiskers is not a SK, I have no idea how you can still think so. She's just scum.

The night kills mean it's either multiball, which is extreeeemely unlikely with no crosskills up to now
Or there's a SK. That's right, me. I have no idea why you won't believe I'm the SK, but just saying 'you should've been strung up ages ago' isn't gonna further your wincon.

@Bulba: following whiskers would have been stupid since she's scum.

@Tier: Playing down the SK role? Why not push harder at whiskers the last few days then? Even if you didn't claim, there's been next to no pressure on her from you, at all. I don't get it.

I didn't push before, because I didn't want to reveal my role before. I've asked whiskers to claim multiple times today and I think she's scum.

And that last post by bulba is manipulative again.