Mini 1531 ~ Mafia Pinnipedum (Game Over!)

[penguin_alien]

Purple Plague proposing a town block feels in character from Ms Marangal. And if I'm reading that right as Nacho nixing it, that also seems likely from town-Nacho, given I seem to recall some recently completed game where scum hung out in the town block for a good while.

Lady LambdaDelta reads town. In combination with Smudger griping about game length via referencing other people's posts, I'd like to see where his wagon goes.

VOTE: Smudger

[penguin_alien]

Garmr, as per your earlier post, if you think Smudger is scum, why would you worry about him self-hammering?

[penguin_alien]

Hey Natirasha, if it was Day Two, who would you want to lynch?

walked into a club, how's the Garmr wagon looking to you relative to the Smudger one?

[penguin_alien]

Penguin what is your opinion on the current wagons?

Well, I think Smudger's scum. You're the only other player with anything approaching an actual wagon, and I don't think anyone voting you has a particularly strong case. Anything else you're counting as a wagon?

kayne, do you still want a DBK wagon?

[penguin_alien]

Smudger, my scum read on you remains partially due to the self-consciousness I'm seeing in your early posts, and it doesn't abate later on. There's a lot of AtE in the whole 'I played badly, I deserve this lynch for dumb play' spiel, and I don't trust that either.

kayneknowsbest, I asked about your interest in the DBK wagon because you wanted to know what happened to it. Wanted to know if that was you wanting the wagon to grow again or just wondering why it had disbanded.

[penguin_alien]

So you're going with 'dumb seal' as your flavor?

[penguin_alien]

Smudger, my scum read on you remains partially due to the self-consciousness I'm seeing in your early posts, and it doesn't abate later on. There's a lot of AtE in the whole 'I played badly, I deserve this lynch for dumb play' spiel, and I don't trust that either.

-snip-

Basically reasons for scumreading Smudger are self-consciousness and AtE, which is the type of reasoning that just hurts my insides. It also doesn't hurt that the scummiest people on the Smudger wagon were Kaze and penguin.

I saw that you later said you read Smudger's self-recrminiations as town; I disagree. I think he's putting on a show. The last part of this doesn't follow for me: you're saying that it doesn't hurt your argument for scum-me that I was among the scummiest people on the wagon?

Questions from Purple Plague I've missed, with apologies:

Garmr, as per your earlier post, if you think Smudger is scum, why would you worry about him self-hammering?

This question didn't impress me much. Where did it go? Why was it asked? The underlying talk behind it seems to be

why wouldnt you want to lynch scum???

which is one of those things scum ask when they are looking for an easy ass attack.

I've played a couple games recently where scum prevaricated around the L-1 vote. Not Garmr, but it's on my mind.

Purple Plague proposing a town block feels in character from Ms Marangal. And if I'm reading that right as Nacho nixing it, that also seems likely from town-Nacho, given I seem to recall some recently completed game where scum hung out in the town block for a good while.

Lady LambdaDelta reads town. In combination with Smudger griping about game length via referencing other people's posts, I'd like to see where his wagon goes.

VOTE: Smudger

Why?

I've never actually done that kinda thing before.

and, yes Nacho is nixing that block

Given the number of players here I think you've played with and my sense of you as a player, I would expect you to want to take advantage of your connections with people here. And by 'take advantage of' I don't mean prey on as scum; just that you'd want to capitalize on them.

So, my wagon at L-1:

Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know, Selkies

DDD: Normally I'd think that someone willing to start a wagon is likely town, but his Smudger town-read that he uses to dismiss the Smudger wagon and like a vote on me better isn't good. Here's what I have from his ISO prior to his vote on me concerning Smudger:

Bo. not really focused on him (DDD) or anyone else in particular at this moment. Nothing seems to be a stand out for me after reading through, why do you ask?

I'm his way of looking like he's doing something productive.

Easy interaction with Smudger

can someone ask me a question please..? I am feeling left out...

Why do people keep asking this?

Ugh, that’s brutal and I missed it on the first go around, exact same bullshit as Garmr.

Implies that Smudger was being scummy.

But then:

Feel like the Smudger wagon is on town, no interest in that.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: penguin_alien

Shuts down a Smudger wagon, easy vote on me. Cheerleads it along without doing much to add weight to the arguments.

Natirasha: First off my wagon once it hit L-1. Don't think scum would go after my defender before at least trying to squeeze a claim out of me.

Smudger: Happy to go with a counterwagon, not very influential in my scum read on him.

TPP: Based on my posting I'm not surprised these players were willing to lynch me. They've also been consistent with the read for a while before putting down the vote, so I'm less concerned with them being scum.

DBK: Casual disengagement also without any interest in looking for the claim. He stepped back and looked at the whole game state/vote count for analysis as well, and I actually like how he was willing to change his mind without tons of justification here:

That Penguin wagon happened way too fast, there's gotta be at least a scum on it.

VOTE: penguin_allen

I liked Plague's explanation of why PA can be scum.

Selkies: orcinus posts here:

I asked fery to catch me up in this game. Sorry for not paying too much attention.

I think at this point in time I agree with fery about Smudger being more than likely town. His wagon is driven on his snark to LLD (I think?) which in our experiences actually lean town more often than it leans scum.

Fery tihnks that the early reaction was pretty bad but given how the wagon is stagnating at L-1 he's had a much more towny vibe. I...agree with that, but would like to add that when wagons stagnate at L-1 it's much easier than when the wagon is actually building (for the scum player that is)

im ok with this vote

VOTE: penguin

Dismissing Smudger's wagon as a backlash against him being snarky with LLD is lousy. I'm also not seeing how him shifting over towards AtE when he hit L-1 is towny.

I'm also interested in the part where fferyllt asserts that she and Nacho know my scum game after NY 164 right after saying that I'm not easy to read despite that very same months-long game. The inconsistency doesn't follow.

[penguin_alien]

So, my wagon, as I'd order it town to scum:

Natirasha
Does Bo Know
The Purple Plague
Selkies
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Smudger

Also realized I forgot to check who, if anyone, jumped from Smudger to me or whether we have discrete wagons.

[penguin_alien]

I'm still awake, hit me.

[penguin_alien]

...too many hydras. Yeah, I confused you and Mara there. And yes, Ghostlin was definitely the obv-town half in Death's Diner.

[penguin_alien]

I don't like the penguin wagon. Penguin tends to be the kind of player that gets wagoned easily for one or two posts based upon the way she approaches things and that's what this feels like. The choice between Smudger and Penguin is a no brainer.

I really don't like orcffery's vote there. At all. It's very shocking to see her scumreading penguin when she knows what actual scumpeng looks like.

I also dislike the fact that my absence means I never gave garmr the meta case he wanted and yet past the initial dig at me there was no followup at all about it. Seems he was content to take a potshot and leave it at that.

She's not easy for me to read despite playing that months-long game with scum-PA.

What part of Nacho's case do you disagree with?

Am I an easier target? You're attacking me/orcinus for the vote when Nacho is actually pushing her wagon. He and Mara don't know her scum game? After ny164?

OK, here's where I was mixing things up. But I'm not following how you figure Nacho and Mara know my scum game but you don't when you all basically saw the same things, and you were probably pushing my lynch more than Mara there.

[penguin_alien]

Re: Smudger being self conscious:
Why do you think he's putting on a show? You were also the scummiest on his wagon when it was formed, along with Kaze. I'm guessing that scum didn't get to L-1 without scum help, so.

I think it's a show because given that we have half the day left according to the battery and he was only the second wagon to get past the 'halfway to lynch' mark, him throwing in the towel isn't reasonable even if he's a VT as claimed. The self-conscious part is him not knowing how to react in order to derail the wagon, and there's a sense of him analyzing his own posts/soliciting feedback to figure out where he went wrong.

To clarify, you're saying that of those who have voted Smudger, Kaze and I are your top overall scum reads or your top reads for scummy jumps onto the wagon?

[penguin_alien]

That must of killed kaze inside to type slight town read for me.

Basically I'm saying that kaze seemed like he was scum reading me yesterday. Also if he was part of a masonry i think those reads came from his partners and not him lol.

Funny you should say that. He was actually the one in the masonry with the strongest town read on you; that you ended up as even a slight town read was due to his influence rather than the rest of our opinions.

And 'if' he was part of a masonry? You realize he's flipped mason, Y/Y?

I want to hear more from Garmr and everyone before voting, but I wholly support his lynch.

Well, yesterday was shit.

You don't think the wagons were useful for reads? Almost half of Smudger's final wagon is conf-town:

Lady Lambdadelta,

penguin_alien, Kazekirimaru,

Garmr, walked into a club,

Plum,

kanyeknowsbest

I'm pretty sure there's no more than one scum on there.

What's your issue with a Natirasha town read?

[penguin_alien]

I'll have more detailed thoughts here in a bit when I finish organizing the thoughts from my conversations with the remnants of my masonry. Things are starting to make sense though.

[penguin_alien]

More specifically, Selkies, where was the scum on my wagon? Given that as an unknown I should have been a higher priority for a lynch than the claimed VT Smudger?

[penguin_alien]

More specifically, Selkies, where was the scum on my wagon? Given that as an unknown I should have been a higher priority for a lynch than the claimed VT Smudger?

Do you really feel like an unknown in this player list?

Unknown role, not unknown as a player. Mafia scum at least would have figured it quite likely that Smudger was actually just a VT; running up and lynching a VT versus at least running up a potential PR is suboptimal.

This was the penultimate vote count. You went to L-1 IIRC with my vote between this count and smudger's lynch. At the time, I thought the way the smudger wagon came back to life looked possibly scum-driven, and if it weren't for your communicating your masonry before Kaze' flip I'd still be feeling pretty squinty-eyed about you. It kinda reinforces a caveat about town players sometimes winding up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Smudger (L-2) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, penguin_alien, Kazekirimaru, Plum, Garmr
penguin_alien (L-2) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know

Nati jumps out of this list. Maybe nachomara, but nacho had a convincing case to go with his vote. Possibly DDD.

Who do you think are the scum on your wagon?

As you said, seeing as you voted me right after this vote count, my wagon more accurately looked like: penguin_alien (L-1) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know, Selkies

Smudger = conftown, if DBK is scum of any variety I'll be shocked, and I highly doubt Natirasha is Mafia-scum at least. So PoE says scum on my wagon is in {DDD, TPP, Selkies}

The TPP case on me was that I was town-reading them too easily, I asked a question of Garmr that wasn't viewed as helpful, and they didn't like my reasoning for Smudger-scum for nebulous reasons. In my experience, scum tend to object to being town-read for unclear reasons more readily than town, Garmr throwing mud on Smudger without following up with a vote for incredibly sketchy reasons is more clearly scummy now (more on that in another post), although I'll somewhat concede their dislike of my read on Smudger, although given that I was pretty confident scum had daytalk him seeming to take a dive fit with him being scum receiving coaching. What part of the case on me did you like enough to put me at L-1 and never move your vote?

What about Natirasha is making you think scum?

[penguin_alien]

The promised case on Garmr, much-delayed:

He starts out with the gem of:

Anyone got any questions for to get me into the game.

which is scummy flat out, even if he later tries to pretend it was a reaction test that nailed scum via honing in on players who expressed annoyance with the tactic.

Instead of pushing his strongest scum read after his wall of reads in 375, he backs off, claiming to want to avoid self-hammering scum. Realistically, this shouldn't be a concern; scum self-lynching day one is a huge advantage to the town, even if we're deprived of the hammer vote. DDD-vote is based just on, um, apathy and some anti-social behavior? I don't like the refusal to vote with his strongest case, especially with the continued refusal to back up his theory that Smudger would have self-hammered.

Seeing as he continues avoiding Smudger's wagon until it's at L-1 at the end of the day, even when he has no good excuse for staying off, he was my top scum read on the wagon going into night.

When Day Two started, he danced around WIAC. It didn't go anywhere, especially when he deflected onto dancing around Kaze's town reading him

if

Kaze was a mason, followed by some more waffly votes.

All in all, I'm pretty sure that LLD's start to the Smudger wagon isn't scum and that kayne-scum wouldn't have hammered at that point, and while I doubt the majority of scum were on the wagon post-VT claim and post-another-viable-wagon-emergence, I think it likely did have a sticky scum.

VOTE: Garmr

Care to respond?

[penguin_alien]

Right, you were very helpful to the scum team in Mini 1516, helping them lynch VI Wake for the scum win...that's what you mean, I assume, not the time where you and your scum team killed my hydra N1 of the Narnia game when we were just a wittle VT because we we so vewy scawy?

[penguin_alien]

Mm-hm, do talk more about connections when you couldn't even keep the names of your teammates in your head for a full game day.

Actually, scratch that, I think I've seen enough evidence of your complete inability to respond to suspicions against you. Not to mention your disinterest in scum-hunting today, your day-long flail, and your willingness to take the bait in attempting to derail any actual discussion of your scumminess. I'm only sorry that we let Kaze talk the rest of us back from our scum read on you overnight.

[penguin_alien]

It's not she just rubbed me the wrong way kayne.

For scum-reading you? Welcome to Mafia, hon.

[penguin_alien]

Well, he can't OMGUS me, and he apparently can't refute my points. It doesn't leave him many options.

P-edit: Nice try, but check the post order here:

Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.

Right, you were very helpful to the scum team in Mini 1516, helping them lynch VI Wake for the scum win...that's what you mean, I assume, not the time where you and your scum team killed my hydra N1 of the Narnia game when we were just a wittle VT because we we so vewy scawy?

[penguin_alien]

Garmr, please for the love of god just go sit in the corner.

If you can't grasp cause and effect. You can't make a logical argument that you were dismissive of my case and attempted to derail it for something that hadn't happened yet.

Why don't you go back to your QT and let your buddies explain what's going on, see if they'll help you talk your way out of this.

[penguin_alien]

Still not seeing any attempt from Garmr to address the case.

Vote Garmr for honorary masonhood! Bussing scum get a shiny medal too...

[penguin_alien]

So do you think it's strategically motivated here?

[penguin_alien]

UNVOTE: Garmr

This is still the only lynch I want today, but I also want the hammer. No, this isn't me being a prima donna; I have important reasons for it. I'll consider anyone who hammers in my stead to be claiming scum.

This should put Garmr-slot at L-3, FYI, so no one can gripe that they lost count.

[penguin_alien]

So do you think it's strategically motivated here?

.

He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.

From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.

So you think what went down merited a ragequit?

[penguin_alien]

So do you think it's strategically motivated here?

.

He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.

From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.

So you think what went down merited a ragequit?

Merited? I dunno. I wouldn't assume that this game is the only source of frustration. When I blow up in a game there are usually multiple game-related and/or real life situations going on, not just the proximate cause.

All right. So, if you were talking about this game to someone post-completion and had to describe what happened in the thread between 908 and 939 (a nine hour time period), what would you say?

[penguin_alien]

The pressure consisted of a one-post case. All right, plus Cabd's shenanigans. At what point would you say he fell apart under pressure? Preferably with a post number cited. It was pretty obvious that I was going to challenge him at some point today, so I can't conceive that it was wholly unexpected.

If I were trying to push the lynch through without a replacement, I'd be doing so. I'm more interested right now in analyzing what went down and seeing how people reacted to it.

You also mentioned that you thought the changes in his play were indicative of a town-self-improvement trajectory because he was being blatant about declaring how much he was incorporating your advice post-1516. What surprises me is that you're not questioning his obsequious tone in doing so, given that this is Garmr we're talking about. To say his game persona is arrogant would not be overstating my take on him, yet you believe that after one game whose loss he clearly blames on someone else he's been inspired to be your disciple?

[penguin_alien]

So up through that point you thought he was doing a decent job of responding to my case? What was productive-towny about #909-925:

Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.

Penguin alien no we killed you because you did nothing all game and showed no connections to anyone and was lightly town read. You were the perfect scum kill.

It's not she just rubbed me the wrong way kayne.

I also don't get why her vote on me is valid even when I read it I don't see those as scummy actions.

It's not she just rubbed me the wrong way kayne.

For scum-reading you? Welcome to Mafia, hon.

no for this

Right, you were very helpful to the scum team in Mini 1516, helping them lynch VI Wake for the scum win...that's what you mean, I assume, not the time where you and your scum team killed my hydra N1 of the Narnia game when we were just a wittle VT because we we so vewy scawy?

I'm as confirmed town as it's possible to be without being an IC or dead and flipped. Even if he totally disagreed with my case, if he was town he had to consider that it was coming from a fellow townie. But he had no interest in demonstrating where I was wrong in characterizing his actions as scummy. Instead my vote just wasn't valid.

[penguin_alien]

I assumed he didn't know there was a revealed living mason. Given a flipped dead mason, I'd be more worried if Syryana had scoured the game to hunt for his partners, as most people are loathe to fake looking foolish by not knowing something and scum would be trying to find the partner, assuming it didn't come up in the scum QT to begin with.

[penguin_alien]

Hi, Magua. Claim, please.

[penguin_alien]

Oh, but it was so much fun to be called town as fuck for a change...

[penguin_alien]

I literally don't understand the case on Garmr at all, so sorry guys.

I'm not seeing anything on DDD besides him not giving reads. Which can be said for most of the game right now.

I'll grant that if Garmr somehow was town, being accused of being scum might be irritating. But that's the game--one is going to be misread on occasion. If one can't engage in a remotely useful manner, step away from the keyboard and come back when you can. If I'm wrong, he could have explained why. That his first reaction was to insist that my case couldn't be right because he'd been on a scum team that won a game I was briefly in, never mind that my case is coming from more than just me, is totally out of left field.

He couldn't say I was scum for the case, but he could try to paint me as a...how to put this...big meanie. Only problem was that when asked what provoked his initial reaction to my case, he cited a post that came after his response. Whoops.

Not so interested in Magua's claim any longer, BTW.

[penguin_alien]

OK, orcinus, would you rather vote DDD or Magua and why?

[penguin_alien]

I think Bo needs more suspicion

Yeah, he's been quiet lately.

DDD or Magua for today though?

What's Magua done to redeem the Garmr posts?

Magua, you're still welcome to claim. Just that the longer you wait, the less likely it is I'll believe you, and the battery's in the yellow zone. And fair warning if you're not reading earlier posts, when considering your wagon size, you can add my promised hammer vote to it.

What do you like about the DDD lynch?

[penguin_alien]

Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.

Yeah i agree with Cabd/PA you need rope.

I don't like this at all.

i concur with this sentiment

i like nati's 904. although it's pretty absurd premise (depeding on how you arrive at it), it's something I found myself doing in large normal.

orcinus, if this was you, what changed?

[penguin_alien]

You've been rereading the game; where do you think I stand on DDD?

[penguin_alien]

Forced lynch pool? You want Syryana added to the options under discussion, vote him and the wagon will be as serious as DDD's is. What do you think of his posting though, since you don't hold replacements' predecessors against them?

[penguin_alien]

Whose POE scum read? Are you good with POE scum reads at this stage of the game?

You have two immediate use dayvig shots, expiration date ticking down. Where do they go, assuming the second may be chosen conditionally on the first flip?

P-edit: So Magua's assuaged your suspicions? Which votes from DBK did you think were 'trying to see what would stick'?

[penguin_alien]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

[penguin_alien]

AND WHY THE FUCK IS THE WORD UNDERWHELMING SO POPULAR TODAY

"I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be whelmed?"

Syryana, what's your take on LLD at present?

[penguin_alien]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

Blergh, I suppose you're right. See the following (although I don't have the energy to add the explanations) and tell me what you think:

T -> S: TPP, kanye, WIAC, Selkies, LLD, DDD, Syryana, Magua, Natirasha

[penguin_alien]

Nat, you made it through a Twilight book. That it's 'books,' plural, seals my read.

Seriously, I'll explain once orcinus has a chance to reply.

[penguin_alien]

What, you want the explanations?

[penguin_alien]

I got what I wanted out of the fucking stupid reads list. All bullshitting aside:

No, Nat, you're not my top scum suspect. I'm darn confident you're not Mafia.

TPP, your reaction has been noted as well. As far as Syryana and Magua go, Syryana's town to me and Magua's my top Mafia suspect.

[penguin_alien]

Why? I'd rather hear about the people you're looking at.

[penguin_alien]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

I strongly suspect that you're just being a dick now for the sake of it

:double-checks: No dick here.

You're wholly capable of reading the same game I am and working to figure stuff out. Why ask for my reads list? Do you think the day's going to end without that being revealed? If you wanted to work with me, you wouldn't be rolling over when Magua comes in all charming and entertaining. You'd be trying to sort the slot, not finding any reason you could to back down from wanting his lynch.

I'm basically conf-town. People can disagree with me, they can hate my reads, but they can't try to get me lynched for them. We as a group get far more out of your reads and people's reactions to them than mine mid-game day phase.

[penguin_alien]

DBK's wagon movement D1, DBK's attitude upon replacing out, Syryana's attitude toward masons' presence.

[penguin_alien]

I'm aware, but I disagree. What do you think of it?

[penguin_alien]

Magua, if you're town, claim before the battery runs so low we have no choice but to lynch you to avoid a no-lynch irrespective of your claim.

I'm aware, but I disagree. What do you think of it?

I think it's contrived.

Also fery thinks syry is town and I trust her ability to read her hydra partners. Despite whatever I dislike about her play.

What policy is this?

So Syryana's not knowing I was a claimed and effectively confirmed mason was contrived in your opinion, which I assume you think comes from scum. But ffery thinks Syryana is town, so you're going with that. Even though you don't like ffery's play, despite having chosen to hydra for this game?

I genuinely do not get your read. What I am getting is that you-orcinus think he's scum, but you're going to ignore this in favor of your-ffery's read. Which means you can pull out your scum read at your convenience.

What's the benefit for scum-Syryana to pretend not to know I was a mason?

Yes. You are conftown. I never suggested otherwise. Which means that I value your reads as one that I know to be coming as from town. Given that I'm still trying to get my reads sorted as a result of not being in the game, yours would be helpful to give me something to build on.

I want to work with you, not be your goddamn lap dog. And I've laid down quite clearly that I want to see Magua-scum before I'm willing to vote the slot. That's not rolling over. That's refusing to do so.

I actually had documented my opinions on several other players, including Syryana, Natirasha, and kayne. My ISO is still pretty short. If you really wanted to put your head together with mine without reading the whole game, why not just read my D2 posts and work from there? I'm not interested in lap dogs either, and I've put enough out there for anyone who wants to to meet me partway.

You knew my strongest read going into this and yet had no interest in it despite Garmr scum-claiming via his replace-out post. Because he got replaced, whoopee. It's like going to see a production of Hamlet, being disappointed at the massive casualties, and coming back to see it with a new actor in the lead role with the hope that it'll end differently this time. Spoiler alert: everyone's still going to die. Doesn't matter who's playing Hamlet, the character's still an idiot. And so it is here: Garmr was scum, so Magua, genuinely amusing though he is, is still scum.

[penguin_alien]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

Blergh, I suppose you're right. See the following (although I don't have the energy to add the explanations) and tell me what you think:

T -> S: TPP, kanye, WIAC, Selkies, LLD, DDD, Syryana, Magua, Natirasha

Your posts to date don't really reflect this ranking. What has changed your mind?

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

Blergh, I suppose you're right. See the following (although I don't have the energy to add the explanations) and tell me what you think:

T -> S: TPP, kanye, WIAC, Selkies, LLD, DDD, Syryana, Magua, Natirasha

i dropped fery a quick note last night and she confirmed what i thought

i feel midly insulted by this

???

[penguin_alien]

What did you confirm for orcinus?

[penguin_alien]

What did you think of TPP's response to the reads list? Which yes, was strategically faked BS. And it wasn't an insult to his intelligence, but rather me taking advantage of the situation to garner other reactions. If he really wanted to discuss some of my reads, he could have gotten them from my ISO, so I don't feel badly about it.

[penguin_alien]

Peng: why are we at the top of your reads list? above whatever living mason-partner you may have left?

also explain Magua and Syry

Here ya go.

[penguin_alien]

I'm curious as to why people are townreading kanye. I'll admit to not knowing his meta other than by reputation he's a much better player than typist but I see a player who was on the mislynch yesterday and who mostly today has sat back and asked questions, voted me which is a bad vote and voted Syr and while I don't consider that a bad vote there's been no serious push in that direction and the one point brought up about Syr is pretty dodgy and feels like a lame application of LAL and nothing more.

--Both the major wagons at the end of yesterday were mislynches. Pointing fingers for being on one rather than the other is rather useless.

--What's the purpose behind kanye having hammered Smudger to end the TPP-Selkies convo as scum?

--If Syryana isn't a bad vote in your opinion, what reasons do you think would justify it, since you find kanye's point dodgy?


--Garmr-Magua is scum.

--Following from that, why would kanye help provoke Garmr into his meltdown/flounce and let him utterly destroy the slot if he could have been coaching him from inside their scum QT in real time instead?


--Why aren't you voting?

[penguin_alien]

I'm assuming scum have daytalk because the masons do, as I think I've hinted quite clearly. If we have three masons with daytalk against three Mafia without daytalk, I feel very sad for Mafia.

Can you please read Garmr's replace-out post and see why it does not come from town? I'd explain, but I think it's reasonably apparent.

LLD and kanye are absent at present, but I'd be up for discussing your reads on those slots--they're among the least certain for me. Which universal town read(s) do you think are scum?

[penguin_alien]

Magua, if we're wrong about you, there will be reevaluation happening. Not sure why you'd think otherwise.

kanye's town for other reasons right now.

[penguin_alien]

If you flip town and we lose multiple townies overnight, the remaining pool is going to be reduced enough that if I'm alive there's no way I'd be able to afford taking anything for granted.

While we're waiting for people to join us, which of these things is not like the other, Magua?

{Sealy Mattress, Sealshells, Sealed With A Kiss, Glass Sealing, Seal Books UK, Sealsar's Palace, Seal No Evil, Navy Seal}

[penguin_alien]

(anyone else is welcome to jump in here, BTW) (and no, this isn't bullshit like my reads list was; I have a point)

[penguin_alien]

(anyone else is welcome to jump in here, BTW) (and no, this isn't bullshit like my reads list was; I have a point)

believe its seal books.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Bonus round: which of these is the sad, sad outcast:

{Sphinxeal, Sealrius, Sealturn, Seal of Approval, Club Seal}

Also, when is an acceptable time to claim:

A) when one is the leading wagon right before deadline
B) at L-1
C) when hammer intent has been declared
D) massclaim!
E) when one has highly exciting results to share
F) at L-4 right before replacing out with half the day to go

[penguin_alien]

Penguin, is F the right answer if I tag on an "as scum" option to the end of that question?

Pretty much.

Also, having looked at the Puppies game from Sixty, it didn't look like their fakeclaims were super-specific. I could see Garmr getting something that hinted at dancing in a club, googling, and coming up with Club Seal instead of the intended Sealsa Club or something. He wasn't exactly presenting as hyper-rational by the end there.

TPP, what did Garmr do that was town? Aside from the 'trust tell'-claim flub? Also, I've been talking about consulting with what's left of my masonry all day long. Assuming we weren't using coded signals in-thread, there are limited alternative avenues aside from daytalk by which that could be taking place.

[penguin_alien]

Do you think Garmr wasn't indulging in massive dickery, as you put it, anyways?

[penguin_alien]

I'd like Selkies to claim, as my two cents.

[penguin_alien]

Nacho, how is it you were posting between the time the night posting started and night ended, but didn't reconsider the Kaze shot? I can see missing the reads post, but not seeing my mason claim and not having that shed a different light on your combined me-Kaze D1 scum read?

[penguin_alien]

Seal On Board:

1) Debonair Danny DiPietro: ?, ?
2) Syryana

(replacing Does Bo Know D2)

: ?, ?
3) Magua

(replacing Garmr D2)

: Club Seal, Vanilla Seallager
4) kanyeknowsbest: ?, Neighborizer
6) Lady Lambdadelta: ?, One-Shot BP
7) Natirasha: Wax Seal, Vanilla Seallager
8) penguin_alien: Sealturn, Seallager Mason
10) Selkies (fferyllt + orcinus_theoriginal): Safety Seal, Vanilla Seallager
12) The Purple Plague (Ms Marangal + Nachomamma8): Sealial Killer, Seallager Compulsealve Vigsealante
13) walked into a club (Cabd + Malakittens): Sealsar's Comet, Seallager Mason

Left for the Polar Bears:

11) Smudger - Sphinxeal, Vanilla Seallager - Lynched Day 1.
5) Kazekirimaru - Sealrius, Seallager Mason Nightposter - Devoured Night 1...
9) Plum - Seal of Approval, Vanilla Seallager - Detained Night 1...

TPP hinted at the Sealial Killer thing. I don't know LLD, but how likely is it that she decided to kick off mass claim by claiming one of the more policy-lynched roles around?

not necessarily so. If town was responsible for the second night kill, it could have easily been a deadline scramble

We did only get our reads list out right before deadline, like 2.5 hours in advance. Honestly, we figured that once I was revealed as a mason, town wouldn't shoot WIAC, given their defense of me, or Kaze, given TPP linking me and Kaze on the Smudger wagon. Obviously we figured wrong, but the reads list was more intended to tell the town what we were thinking if I died so my co-masons didn't have to out themselves prematurely.

[penguin_alien]

Magua, I agree that the 'devoured' flavor looks bad for TPP. With a compulsive vig, by my calculations, in a worst-case scenario town gets two mislynches only. Even with a scum lynch D3, if all NKs are on town, we still need the compulsive vig to hit scum N3 to stay in the game. The BP would help with this, but that also makes two claims that are going to look pretty bad for town in the end.

From your POV, your potential Mafia pool is: {DDD, kanye, Syryana, Natirasha} based on your reads so far. What three-man scum team makes sense there? Although really, I suppose it's more a question of which one is most likely town.

[penguin_alien]

So WIAC's town, Nat's town, Syryana's town, kanye's very likely town, LLD is probably town.

TPP is the second kill source.

That leaves {DDD, Selkies, Magua}

Trouble is, because for whatever combination of reasons TPP shot one of my mason partners, I don't trust that they're not a gambiting SK, and if we mislynch here and lose two townies tonight, we're hostage to TPP as town or third party.

I'd like to wait for DDD and Syryana to claim, and since I enjoy things being tied up neatly, it would be awesome to have flavor from LLD and kanye, but I'm not so inclined to hold the day for that.

[penguin_alien]

TPP, who would you shoot if you survive today? Feel free to give conditional answers.

[penguin_alien]

Yes, I'm aware you've stated some choices already, but I'd like your up-to-date thoughts, especially those dependent on how any likely non-you lynches today would flip.

[penguin_alien]

^ this.

I'm assuming TPP is thinking Nat-DDD-? I'd like to know their thoughts if Nat is town.

[penguin_alien]

VOTE: TPP

Still want answers, but we need a lynch, and eliminating a kill source that seems likely to kill town is to the good.

[penguin_alien]

I realize that it makes exactly zero difference to anyone, but I apologize to everyone involved in the game, mods and players alike. I’m sorry that I ruined the mod’s very excellent set-up with my poor play. I’m sorry to the scum team if in any way I made their well-deserved win less fulfilling.

Most importantly I deeply apologize to the entire town for completely sabotaging the game. I never should have lied, and I understand why it was an extremely bad choice. Not that regretting my arrogance and stupidity is any help to you now. I don’t expect anyone to forgive this.

Rest assured that I’ll be reading the ensuing comments. Unless someone has a particular aspect of my idiocy they want me to address, I won’t be interjecting further, as inexcusable behavior by definition doesn’t merit excuses, and I’ve taken up enough of the thread as it is without crossing the line into any attempts to justify my execrable choices.

Vi and Tierce, thank you for the game. Congrats to the scum team. Best of luck to everyone in their future games.

[penguin_alien]

PA, feel free to release our Mason QT.

Mason QT here