Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

And xis scum motive to claim 1 shot doc who saved no one is?

[Mehdi2277]

I used a jail safe card on tbg. He says I didn't target anyone. I'm saying to check whether a jail safe card counts as a visit or not.

[Mehdi2277]

That is also me saying I didn't visit anyone with a different role power last night.

[Mehdi2277]

Day 1 read wrong? When did you have a scum read on me day 1?

[Mehdi2277]

VOTE: Safety I'll need an explanation for this eventually, but for now I just asked gnr and found out my chance protect does count as a visit so 1 vs 1 does work (I don't believe safety would be rb'd when his slot was empty at night which is the only decent explanation other then one of us is scum).

[Mehdi2277]

It is now Day 2.

~SafetyDance replaces Robert2424~

So you did a night action while your slot was empty?

[Mehdi2277]

Nah I'm fairly sure that you'd have made a really doubtful rb choice so that option is one I need not think of much is what that meant. Curious of what I said could have been interpreted as that though.

[Mehdi2277]

Nah I'm fairly sure that you'd have made a really doubtful rb choice so that option is one I need not think of much is what that meant. Curious of what I said could have been interpreted as that though.

[Mehdi2277]

I mentioned an rb as an unlikely possibility on you and that became I knew there was an rb.

[Mehdi2277]

Chance card. Jail free card (think the classic monopoly jail free card).

[Mehdi2277]

Anyways the bigger point to address mhork is me vs safety.

[Mehdi2277]

Cheery actually can likely guess why I did that. The chances of me being rb are a lot lower then one of us being scum.

[Mehdi2277]

Random seems ideal. Especially if my theory that role powers become more powerful with sets is true and if they were true random at start that blocks sets from appearing if scum has some which they likely would.

I've already ask the mod on whether my card use counted as a visit and it does. Either a. his role is limited in a strange way, b. he got roleblocked when his slot appeared blank all night, c. I got role blocked which while nothing makes it too doubtful I just find all three of these options to be less likely then he's scum.

Tbg you're actually really wrong on what I meant with that comment, but I guess that can count as something else.

[Mehdi2277]

And the sets theory is partly pure monopoly spec and based on my own role (which I'd rather not claim now).

[Mehdi2277]

Or mafiastuck connection with the rb theories currently. No result = didn't do anything in multiple games but the big problem is why rb a player who seems non existent.

[Mehdi2277]

And cheery thinking someone town isn't enough for me to say I was likely rb when he claims he didn't see me target tbg.

[Mehdi2277]

Didn't see != didn't visit UNVOTE: safety but I still want the role clarified in how it's working.

[Mehdi2277]

I really don't know but I do know that didn't see doesn't sound like the player visited no one that's more standard.

[Mehdi2277]

Your version of this is?

[Mehdi2277]

No I mean cheery what do you think happened in relation to me and safety.

[Mehdi2277]

No although I hinted to my role yesterday (day 1) lightly. If that's enough for people to find what my role is then I guess scum could have guessed it otherwise I don't know why I'd be role blocked.

[Mehdi2277]

You'll note I had a town read of mehdi before #947 too.

When did I become townie after being most scummy?

[Mehdi2277]

Unless you're cards work differently mine didn't give me a power for each separate card just one power together.

Please explain this.

2 orange cards = power together which is connected to the earlier comment on a full set of properties would give more powerful powers.

[Mehdi2277]

Double night kill is something you're seriously under estimating in power. Anyways I don't expect every player to have as much power especially with while lurker was scum I think he's right on water works and electricity being special (that or I'm the only one who's role power isn't linked to either one of my cards).

P-edit: So what happened during the night you read?

[Mehdi2277]

Not all powers need to be revealed.

[Mehdi2277]

And at this point we've gotten two tracker claims + soft claims of two other prs (although this being role madness is seeming likely right now).

[Mehdi2277]

I don't have it. He claimed B&O. If everyone claims it's not mine then it shouldn't be hard to figure out.

[Mehdi2277]

A. Do you have the railroad B&O? Specifically that card and if you don't have it just you don't and not anything more. If you do then I want to know what power it has if any.
B. To direct a bit what are your thoughts on lurker's wagon before he scum slipped? Along with thoughts on current role discussion.

[Mehdi2277]

Either a. I was role blocked or b. safety is scum or I am are the only two options that have decent chances of being true.

And VOTE: AI. Partly just sheeping tbg and partly that guille's last post puts him a bit less of a lynch desire as AI right now.

[Mehdi2277]

Fake claiming tracker just to support a story a bit doesn't seem to me like an obvious choice nor one that is likely. Waterworks and electric being connected in power I find reasonable and lack of water works cc.

[Mehdi2277]

Scum can block a set of cards when cards are random and they could end up just blocking themselves?

[Mehdi2277]

There's also the problem of it blocking the two trackers. While theories are fun without a true purpose they don't lead to much.

[Mehdi2277]

I'd rather not since I don't see any gain. If they're about to be lynched then can claim and clear themselves without claiming now and making themselves a kill target. At the same time the knowledge of a vig means the vig kill can be manipulated. Before we actually lynch someone it might be a good idea to do a mock lynch on who the vig should target the coming night essentially making the game have double days.

[Mehdi2277]

And that same scum miller got nominated for a scummy. Kind of means something and if you want an opinion of a non townie who read the game I commented and said sala played pretty great. Policy lynching millers is a bad idea if you don't care much about their play.

I'll check the cards I got later, but I've gotten 2 already (one was at night and the other I mentioned during the day before).

Where did gnr mention the kills like that in the OP?

I think this needs to be clarified. How'd you get a card at night? Lurker's two cards have been claimed.

It's been clarified already. It's referring to the chance card that was a get out of jail safe card. The other being I got money during the day yesterday (I think inherited 100 dollars).

Next I can understand jake as a scum read some, but monkey can you explain tbg as scum?

As for night kill stuff saying un was likely the scum kill and spice was likely a vig kill is enough. The problem with them isn't wifom but more of there's a ton of reasons to kill someone so usually you can write up a reason for many players to shoot another (it's better if you want who wouldn't kill un).

Lastly jal explain one reason for how a vig claim helps right now? It mainly makes a mostly confirmed innocent and gets them killed next night or soon and we can direct them without claiming. Mock lynch that the vig has to shoot.

[Mehdi2277]

That he's a passive pr would be my guess.

As for RBing a tracker how would they know a tracker existed last night. No one's found my soft claim so it looks like it wasn't for the thing I said about my role.

And it's not negative utility if the kill is controlled. You still haven't answered why not just do a mock lynch and the vig has to shoot the person mock lynched each day. Unless you take double day is negative utility it should be really helpful.

[Mehdi2277]

Scum can manipulate a lynch. Do you want to stop lynching? I think I've a better idea on what happens with vig controlling since I've been controlled twice when I had a kill and both times town won by a lot.

And your saying last night and tomorrow night in the same thing. I got role blocked. If I thought the chances were too low currently I'd be voting safety.

[Mehdi2277]

I didn't get any deed cards.

And safety go have fun imagining what you would have done in my position.

[Mehdi2277]

My avatar is cute isn't it. And post count amount is a null tell for me since I've almost always had ridiculously high amounts of posts.

Anyways the point was a tracker calls me a liar. Either you're lying, got rb, or I did. The second didn't work great without the result and I didn't think I'd be role blocked either. At the moment it currently fits a bit.

Lastly I mainly wanted to see if someone could find it. By the looks of it not being true I don't think it was for the soft claim.

Finally for the mock lynch

Pseudo vote: guille

. Early nice posts help but only if sustained and currently you remain one of the people I suspect most.

[Mehdi2277]

p.edit - this mock lynch is the stupidest thing I ever heard

3rd time I've heard people call it stupid. Other two times it worked and broke the game in one (with the chance of winning being about 90 percent after 1 night when actions were calculated) with another factor and in the second town got nominated for best town afterwards. It works since it's done by a town vig and not another mafia (mainly since mafia vig is very bad for balance and beyond that if it is a mafia vig and they don't shoot the person the town chooses that confirms mafia has a vig). SK with the way cards were sent out randomly doesn't work. His power is way too swingy and for a one man player would mess things up a ton. The only non town vig kill theory that works decently is two scum teams except why would spice be killed by scum.

Cheery I want your opinion on the mock lynch. You saw what it did in homestuck (yes I realize it was just directed without a complete mock lynch but without the vig being claimed making it clear works better with a similar effect).

Or jake he fake claimed watcher since that's more of a town pr then tracker generally and forgot that in the second claim. Issue fixed.

[Mehdi2277]

Town winning quicker kind shows it helped. Day 2's kill was never really leashed (the one that hit you). And anyways it removes the person that people would have wanted to lynch anyway.

[Mehdi2277]

Kills after that on sanjay and dgb were both leashed and fine. Three vig kills leashed (with the first that's arguable) and two caused scum deaths and was somehow bad.

[Mehdi2277]

My defense is what? My defense unraveling is a very vague way to try to fos me.

The mock lynch is simple. Treat the lynch like a double day. 2:7 double day is fairly balanced while 2:7 mountanious is scum sided. Cheery there's no point in making a vig "accountable". They're already going to shoot who they suspect but shooting people the town suspects as a whole means a. scum dies b. the next mislynch dies. Cheery if you read most of the late discussion people argued to keep me alive as confirmed scum just to use my kill as a second lynch.

I'm implying I have a decent idea of what set ups don't work. Scum having extra kills is really powerful so the easiest option is just a vig that's not associated with a card given to town. Roles have specifically been vanilla + cards. SK isn't impossible but baby spice sucks as a SK kill and it's better to assume the player who shot her is competent and not dumb.

Mhork while it's a mock lynch it still inflicts death and similar to most deaths it'd end up having a claim along with any connected info. I've seen it work successfully twice.

Safety that are powers that just don't want to claim. It'll be obvious why I don't want to claim if I do, so for now unless I'm about to be lynched I'll stay quiet on my role power.

[Mehdi2277]

There's another strange thing with the current cards. Two orange cards together give one power while one Mediterranean card by itself also gives one power.

[Mehdi2277]

Jake I expect you to be caught up soon.:p

[Mehdi2277]

I think so since my power has an obvious way to get upgraded (in fact lurkers one card Mediterranean power is more useful then my two oranges together).

[Mehdi2277]

A better question is why not suspect cd for killing jal.

[Mehdi2277]

Or I can get names confused. I was thinking of UN.

[Mehdi2277]

Assuming I'm not confused I believe cheery claimed the tracking to support safety in that he got the same tracking result.

[Mehdi2277]

You said why do that without pressure not why do that as scum without pressure. Anyways my thought is cheery is town and is just trying to defend safety who he thinks is town which partly is for being so similar to him in claim. Scum he didn't really need to claim and support safety when safety wasn't in a bad position.

[Mehdi2277]

The main point of it doesn't change although that was replied to afterwards.

[Mehdi2277]

Are we going play the entire game speaking in hints? The more important thing is do you think cheery is lying and why?

Safety/cheery what do you think of me right now?

[Mehdi2277]

So essentially no change.

Multiple card block still seems strange since blocking yourself doesn't seem like something that gnr would leave as a possibility.

[Mehdi2277]

At this point if we can knock out one more scum that should leave one scum and trackers can guilty scum when they're solo so a mass claim wouldn't be that bad (I'll type up plan stuff like I usually do if I think we can clear a ton of people). It makes my power useless but it'll be fine if we choose that route.

[Mehdi2277]

Well my role becomes useless if claimed so I'm not speaking in hints simply to confuse you.

I'd be ignoring community chest/chance stuff in plans and just plan with deeds named. Plan wise for history on me planning stuff either detective mafia or marketplace mafia and isoing me would be a good place to check.

[Mehdi2277]

UN shooting spice feels a bit strange. Spice shooting UN also seems strange. The first makes more sense then the second even if I expected you to be dead if UN was the vig.

And as for the multiple trackers based on role knowledge that's not the only pr we have multiple of.

[Mehdi2277]

Guille as well.

[Mehdi2277]

Jal, cheery, safety, guille, monkey. That leaves one missing but mostly all found.

P-edit: I was referring to all cards.

[Mehdi2277]

According to what we have so far if UN didn't shoot anyone and the vig card came from the dead then spice was the vig and shot UN while scum shot her. Or the UN not moving report is false (cheery being role blocked while feasible works strangely when paired with me and safety).

[Mehdi2277]

Why claim a vig kill as scum? Fake claiming as vig as sk sucks and it pretty much means jal's kill is somewhat leashed now that it's claimed. At the same time baby shooting un instead of me doesn't work well and is needed for cheery's report to be true (and cheery is known to not be role blocked either). VOTE: Cheery

[Mehdi2277]

I've claimed vig as sk. I also know it really sucks as a claim and is a fairly ballsy action. Not one I think jal would commit.

[Mehdi2277]

Anyways cheery can argue with me on the theory side, but if she's a sk or mafia then her kill is leashed since she's claimed now. She can't shoot someone without being held for why now and with the claim the accountability previously desired is pretty easy to have now.

[Mehdi2277]

All town tells can be called naive. For now at least I think her claiming vig is a town tell. Especially with how she cared more for how deaths occurred then others by the looks of it.

[Mehdi2277]

A. that's not really true anymore and b. even if it was I don't see how the way she talked on it was scummy at all. The problem with night kill speculation boils down to night kills have a ton of reasons for occurring. I've night killed someone because I knew the player was good and that was the only reason why. However speculating on things reasonably and not blocking all options unless you found something that fits really well is fine.

[Mehdi2277]

I think that's more of something hearing his response on would help (ergo currently I don't know what it means).

[Mehdi2277]

She also claimed having 3 cards basically yesterday so I don't see how it would get anything to help. If she's telling the truth she has 3 cards. If she's lying she still probably has at least 2.

[Mehdi2277]

Well like my day 1 card spec considering how people reacted to it I'm fairly sure no one has only 1 card.

[Mehdi2277]

Flavor is for entertainment purposes only and has no significance in the game.

Baby makes no sense as a mafia kill by most people. I'd have shot baby pretty obviously if I could (you know the people someone votes is likely who they'd shoot).

I've actually partly forgotten about xis. Post 398 is fairly weak when she never pushes most of it at all.

[Mehdi2277]

I think even more mafia would want to shoot him. I'd have protected jal if I didn't think people would expect it to occur anyway.

Not sure how UN makes less sense. I've shot purely on name value before and UN has played better on average and is more known. That and personally he feels fickle which isn't something I'd like alive as scum.

[Mehdi2277]

In my experience he plays fine so deadlock. That and I doubt he'd tunnel jal forever so it made him a ??? which isn't something I'd generally want alive as scum.

[Mehdi2277]

He's the first person to claim a power that seems similar to mine (although not in an obvious way at all). The power is completely useless unless we're really off on how deeds works but beyond the weakness the use doesn't seem that strange.

UNVOTE: CheeryVOTE: Monkey Mostly I'm fine going through with either of AI or numberQ's slots. I can add more to why beyond other lynches being less appealing and if both replacements haven't done much outside of introducing themselves then vanishing.

And safety the point of a vig kill is to kill scum. Some people might advocate policy vigging (mostly since seeing someone shoot a town read since he disagrees isn't fun), but if you check vig shot histories the majority are based that player's scum reads even if the town disagrees (sometimes the fact town disagrees is a reason to shoot them even more).

[Mehdi2277]

I don't think anyone has claimed fully powerless.

As for speculating on who you'd kill if you're being fosed on you'd kill un as sk then replying with no I'd kill x isn't really surprising.

[Mehdi2277]

How does the whatever work. Or why not vote someone you want to vig? And anything else on mhork or was his entire lurker interactions fully fake along with what I said back when he did get wagoned day 1.

Guille does none of my posts referring to you explain why?

Safety/tbg you can check vig histories and you'll see that's almost never done. It's only recommended because people generally don't trust vigs if they aren't holding the vig kill.

[Mehdi2277]

L-2 I believe.

[Mehdi2277]

And tbg you're still underestimating the power (and treating it all town when we at least know one of the tracker cards did belong to scum).

[Mehdi2277]

Lastly no motivation ever given for me to fake claim protecting someone with a 1 shot doc I believe. I said I protected x. Safety says I didn't and I'm scummy for what?

[Mehdi2277]

My vote on him in the first place was connected to his card power. I thought about it more and changed my mind.

[Mehdi2277]

Jal why did you think I voted cheery?

[Mehdi2277]

It's just summarizing some likely correct set up spec. If you really want to push it then he'd know more about cards as scum since he'd know 3 people's start cards and understand it more then be less sure.

[Mehdi2277]

He has two cards and didn't really remember your reaction to the 2/3 card theory (since it was fairly obvious you had 3 cards then). I still don't really see a point in this.

[Mehdi2277]

Already asked.

She also claimed having 3 cards basically yesterday so I don't see how it would get anything to help. If she's telling the truth she has 3 cards. If she's lying she still probably has at least 2.

It would help me understand if that action was actually any use whatsoever (whether it would tell me the actual card number or not, I didn't expect it would, but since I have it I felt I might as well use it). Unless you think there is likely someone with only 1 card.

[Mehdi2277]

His power was used to check your card counts because he's unsure. And b if you really find that strange why not vote him yourself? I find it fine.

[Mehdi2277]

That's very selective standards.

[Mehdi2277]

In your opinion. I personally think baby was an obvious vig kill and still am assuming that.

[Mehdi2277]

Since a. I'd shoot her, b. I've rarely seen vigs actually shoot lurkers and have played about 40 forum games (add in 200-300 EM games if desired), c. scum don't tend to shoot someone with a good amount of suspicion and not pushing their foses much based again off of quite a few games, and d. UN has a fairly decent town rep and is a fine scum night kill plus his unpredictability for day 2 is usually something scum want dead.

Short version personal experience.

[Mehdi2277]

You're basing it off one game while I'm basing it off overall rep which includes scummy noms. And in a two man sk in a 30p game I didn't even think in detail on my first two kills. Maybe that's your response to just shoot who you suspect but it's not what I'd expect as really common. Killing people that aren't likely to be mislynched and are a ? is a threat by itself.

[Mehdi2277]

One when they aren't that super common. 2 man sk means threats would matter more according to your idea, but I played completely differently then what you thought a 2 man mafia would do when threats were less of a problem.

[Mehdi2277]

I've said more then anyone else and responded to basically everything so either you could specify what's off about the response or continue to vaguely fos me and just try to jump on the wagon putting it at L-1.

[Mehdi2277]

No. It's too swingy and while I know the game is meant to be swingy it's still too much (I expect at least one factional night kill and potentially other factional abilities and such). If scum got my cards not together + agent I's + rail roads which seem useless if separate they'd be really weak. Some of the card powers are a lot stronger then others. At the same time powers they have beyond the cards might not be something clear and could just be set up. The way the cards are randomized at death isn't known.

Vote counts don't decide suspicion (especially when you vote the person you suspect most and lurker beat her by a lot at the end). I think it was fairly obvious I'd likely tunnel her if she hadn't died. Jal likely would have pushed her too.

[Mehdi2277]

And lack of comment on it or response to my posts towards you both before and after the vote whenever you suspect me are fine things?

[Mehdi2277]

I'm talking to monkey. I've responded to his vague suspicions with 0 response both after the vote and before it when he just said he found me collapsing.

[Mehdi2277]

Jal if monkey is lynched right now who do you think you'd shoot? And what's your opinion of guille?

[Mehdi2277]

Guille does none of my posts referring to you explain why?

No. You only mention NQ as a lurker. But you mention me several time with intent on voting but no reason whatsoever. Just once you say: "Finally for the mock lynch Pseudo vote: guille. Early nice posts help but only if sustained and currently you remain one of the people I suspect most." in Post 1138. But that's vague and I don't know what you mean with vague.

From what I can tell, your entire suspicion of me is based on Number Q's inactivity.

Yeah inactivity plus the other big reason that somehow disappeared PoE. If you disagree with me suspecting you for not being a town read then argue which of my town reads are bad.

Monkey you can exaggerate all you want, but you've given 0 scum motivation for my "lie" and a reason for it to be true has already been said quite a bit. I'll also borrow part of guille's

how did I go to town, collapsing (vague accusation you've never backed up), to scum worth L-1 (also not backed up and when you voted me you never mentioned the role stuff as a reason but now it's the main reason when people say why the wagon). Continuing why are you ignoring all the votes on you so much. As a miller in steam mafia whenever someone tried to push you you reacted quite a bit and didn't just ignore the votes, but this time when the reasons are more arguable you're avoiding confrontation.

Xis the point of that was to focus on the protection aspect. X isn't a player and I've never called you that once.

Jake I said why I can understand him being a mafia kill much more then spice not why that I think he was the most likely kill.

[Mehdi2277]

Jal the other option is the other initial 3 card holder just didn't claim 3 cards. I don't think we ever asked for people to claim card amounts.

[Mehdi2277]

Where did I ever say that? I said I can understand why as scum he'd be a good kill.

[Mehdi2277]

Tbg claimed a new card to. I think he was the 4th to claim a card at day start.

[Mehdi2277]

I believe the card claim (the other card of that color is a 1 shot vig too) just not the alignment.

[Mehdi2277]

Jal ask gnr if cards refresh. You said your vig shot was 1 shot so I want to know if you killed someone and then died and the card went elsewhere whether the card would be vanilla or have a new 1 shot kill.

[Mehdi2277]

If there's any docs both vigs are being kept alive and partial to complete kill control. Triple lynching is strange and since the card was retrieved not at start it should be one of lurker/uber/spice.

Next what's everyone opinion on a mass claim right now? Half the player list has pretty much claimed or hinted a lot by now and at this point the info scum don't have likely won't help them that much when just getting claims everywhere.

[Mehdi2277]

Was the thing I put in bold not reasons for you being scummy?

Anyways if we want to decide on a mass claim or not then people need to comment on it.

[Mehdi2277]

Monkey who are you shooting if you don't get lynched? I know you said you'd listen to what people said, but if the day ended now who would you shoot? Even if monkey is scum assuming one of the vigs is town (which jal likely is at least) keeping both alive for now has its benefits it the kills aren't just anywhere. UNVOTE: Monkey If monkey is scum and the kill he's referring to is the nk that blocks scum from night killing to just leave him alive and control the kill.

VOTE: guille

[Mehdi2277]

That'd be guille my current vote. Or a better way to work this is who would you not shoot? Same question to jal and really to everyone (who are your three strongest town reads).

Currently mine are:

Safety
Jal
Tbg

[Mehdi2277]

And yes I want monkey shooting one specific person that's agreed upon. Jal shooting either a pool of two or one person since while I trust her the less freedom vigs have the happier I'll be.

[Mehdi2277]

@Mehdi2277

:

Xis the point of that was to focus on the protection aspect. X isn't a player and I've never called you that once.

You've also used the word "someone" throughout this game prior to 1321, after it, as well as within it.

Lastly no motivation ever given for me to fake claim protecting someone with a 1 shot doc I believe. I said I protected x. Safety says I didn't and I'm scummy for what?

Why would you suddenly change phrasing?

To emphasize the protection aspect of it.

And tbg either scum are dumb are they already know who to shoot. The worth of keeping town reads hidden to block scum shooting people most trusted isn't worth it. Are docs just randomly guessing who to protect as well? And does becoming scum make it impossible to tell who looks more town then others?

[Mehdi2277]

Monkey who are you shooting if you don't get lynched? I know you said you'd listen to what people said, but if the day ended now who would you shoot? Even if monkey is scum assuming one of the vigs is town (which jal likely is at least) keeping both alive for now has its benefits it the kills aren't just anywhere. UNVOTE: Monkey If monkey is scum and the kill he's referring to is the nk that blocks scum from night killing to just leave him alive and control the kill.

VOTE: guille

Medhi, you have just said this:

Yeah inactivity plus

the other big reason that somehow disappeared PoE

. If you disagree with me suspecting you for not being a town read then argue which of my town reads are bad.

So, your only argument on me is inactivity? I agree that NQ has been inactive. But you really can't say that about me. I have been posting regularly and consistency after I had read through the game and posted my first reads. If you have something else on me say it.
That's a vague meta thing with little backing for it. And somehow disappeared is referring to you not noticing it. PoE works for me as a scum tell and the second sentence gives you where to argue it since now your just arguing the fact it's poe instead of why the poe is bad (what town reads are bad).
One thing I am noticing is that this is not your town play that I have seen on other games.

[Mehdi2277]

I am not voting you cause nobody else will, so it's pointless. I mean yeah I could easily change my vote to you but that won't accomplish anything.

@ Teh - I'm against it because it's stupid. here is the thing, a SK (or scum for that matter) pretending to be a vig wants to make sure they shoot the "right person" so they don't get flack for shooting wrong. Where as a real vig will trust their own judgement and choose based off their own reads and what other people they think are town would want. If they don't feel like they can still choose the right person, THEY DON'T FUCKING SHOOT ANYONE.

The one time I was a vig I asked people to direct me starting day 2. I generally think of myself as a confident and arrogant person but mock lynching works out fairly well unless you think an actual lynch doesn't help the town.

Jal I'd want the person I'm currently voting shot if they aren't lynched. Followed by xis then mhork.

Monkey can be confirmed mafia and I'd still want him alive until we remove at least one more mafia since his kill is fully directable right now. The game only having 2 scum is very very unlikely so for now while we know that even if he was scum there'd be another scum using his kill works better.

Xis is mhork town as well for the same reason? numberQ didn't exactly push anyone that hard which includes his push on lurker.

Guille what do you think of jake's replace out and replace in reason? Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it? A lot of the tbg town read is similar thoughts on what to do and reads. As for reads safety > jal > tbg > cheery > jake > mhork > xis > guille > monkey. Guille you're following monkey on something when he himself rarely explains his reads and has been vague on everything.

Mhork both vigs currently are card associated. If they shot each other we'd still have two vigs just on different people. A SK + 2 vigs + Mafia is way too many kills.

[Mehdi2277]

Well if one of them is town considering how they both claimed it for a similar card type then the card being why is likely true.

[Mehdi2277]

Yes I did.

[Mehdi2277]

You disagreeing with me is your problem. One of the things cheery disagreed with me on earlier in this thread was this.

[Mehdi2277]

And the argument between lynching confirmed scum has appeared in other games. I was confirmed scum basically day 4 and didn't get lynched until day 7 since people wanted to leash me.

[Mehdi2277]

EBWOP: Day 6 not 7

[Mehdi2277]

Karma mafia (mini theme) I was leashed as a vig.

In homestuck mafia (large theme) I was a SK who was leashed. And the way it works is simple a. monkey dies before end game and b. if monkey doesn't kill the person he's supposed to he dies immediately and if he tries to claim redirected/rb/etc he still dies immediately.

[Mehdi2277]

Anyways different player lists play at different speeds. Homestuck mafia lynched people in about 3 days when about 20 people were alive since people posted at ridiculous rates (60 pages in 3 real life days). Doing multiple lynches in one game day isn't hard if people play really fast.

[Mehdi2277]

And the way it works is simple a. monkey dies before end game and b. if monkey doesn't kill the person he's supposed to he dies immediately and if he tries to claim redirected/rb/etc he still dies immediately.

[Mehdi2277]

From your point of view and remind me when people trust their attackers much.

And tbg if his scum partner is shot by jal or is lynched today and he doesn't follow along he ends the game for his team. He can't not follow along if he's the only scum alive so dealing with the other scum removes that problem for the most part.

Monkey 7 people have shown desire to have you be lynched.

[Mehdi2277]

And tbg considering powers are random for the most part chances of scum having an RB is lower then a townie having it.

[Mehdi2277]

That's literally the only way?

[Mehdi2277]

And to extend it a standard role blocker.

[Mehdi2277]

Well trackers being role blocked isn't doable when that's been clarified but right now you're idea being a problem only applies if it's a nightly rb and there's 0 town rbs that can't narrow down who the scum rb likely is.

[Mehdi2277]

Similar to how any player would guess who someone scum is.

Standard meaning nightly role blocker vs role blocker with some limitation. This is mainly that you made it sound like the chances of controlling monkey's kill if he's town are really unlikely to be helpful.

[Mehdi2277]

Is it any more likely as scum?

[Mehdi2277]

What's the difference between saying jal should one of these two and just mock lynching as a whole? The reason you gave against mock lynching applies for directing kills too doesn't it?

[Mehdi2277]

If I'm scum it's been mod confirmed to me too unless I faked the doc part as well.

[Mehdi2277]

And tbg currently you pretty much make it sound like you'd remember everything more when the game has had a ton of claim stuff that honestly at this point beyond vague important parts aren't something worth remembering in detail.

[Mehdi2277]

Changing them without reason isn't. At this point you're just jumping on what direction things are going and aren't really trying to persuade people to follow you at all.

[Mehdi2277]

Still think monkey should live for one more night. Currently lynch one of guille/xis/mhork, shoot the other two, and then lynch monkey.

[Mehdi2277]

For this day or any? And how is that a bad idea for deaths?

[Mehdi2277]

I claimed 1 shot used up doc so it wasn't for future vig stuff.

I can't prove I forgot, but I did. Excuses are easy to give if you want one (being sicker then I've ever been in years for most of yesterday is one).

[Mehdi2277]

If I'm near confirmed scum then you'd remove me at some point so stalling it for info is just a weak reason that doesn't really make much sense.

AtE isn't really a scum tell. I think it's the only time I've ever used it.

[Mehdi2277]

And monkey am I not supposed to give a reason for forgetting something when tbg is using that as a scum tell? Or would you rather have a lied about reason?

[Mehdi2277]

I don't think you're likely to find anyone lie about being sick.

Monkey hand and town hand are identical since he can't shoot whoever he wants when it comes to vig kill usage.

It's easy to forget something sick.

[Mehdi2277]

How much more does it apply as scum as sick?

[Mehdi2277]

That's only really a worry if he's a. scum and b. can't get his partner killed within two shots. Lynch the person suspected most, have jal shoot the person suspected second most, and him shoot the person 3rd suspected most if the first two kill someone mafia then the problem of he won't shoot a buddy doesn't really apply.

[Mehdi2277]

I'm referring to you're saying it's unlikely under normal circumstances for me to forget scum likely have a rb and would that still apply under being sick?

And if he's the only scum alive on his team then unless he wants to guarantee a loss the game for himself by not following his vig target he'd do it.

[Mehdi2277]

That follows 1611.

And it's not null if it changes the chances of it occurring (if it's a 1 percent chance as town and 20 percent as scum to 5 percent as town then it'd have to be 100 percent as scum to match ratio wise).

[Mehdi2277]

I thought what I did was multiplicative. 1/20 = 5/100

[Mehdi2277]

Yes. The main argument was it has to be multiplicative to be equal and I think the change was additive. Sickness and it being scummy are separate and don't multiply together.

Ex: Assuming it started at 1/20 adding sickness as 10 to each makes it 11/33 which isn't the same as the original and would make it less of a scum tell.

[Mehdi2277]

How does collapse = lying? If you thought I hinted to having a way to prove the allegation on me was wrong and didn't confirm it that'd just be lying. I'm also curious if you really think I lied on something why you aren't voting me.

A good portion of why everything was claimed this time was to understand how card movements worked. There's no major need to claim every card acquired after this lynch and at the start of day 3 if the reason is just seeing where cards traveled.

Watchers cross watching and trackers just being on two suspected different people works. At the same time trackers shouldn't be on the person jal shoots or the person that the new vig shoots.

[Mehdi2277]

Assuming mafia has a nk, monkey flipping mafia should make trackers work like cops. If a player doesn't target someone who died they didn't commit the nk and are clear. Safety would me being tracked be enough for you?

I'll try to organize claims and such now along with where actions should go.

[Mehdi2277]

People claiming if they have claimed can repeat things to make it easier. Otherwise I'll go with what I can remember.

Role Owner	Card Name	Role Power	Target
Safety Dance	Electric Company	Tracker	Mehdi
Cheery Dog	Waterworks	Tracker	Mhork
Safety Dance	Mediterranean Avenue	Watcher	Jake
Jake	Baltic Avenue	Watcher	Safety Dance
Jal	Park Place	Vig	Xis
Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk	Boardwalk	Vig	Guille

If anyone wants something changed then say so.

[Mehdi2277]

Code: Select all

[table][row][header]Role Owner[/header][header]Card Name[/header][header]Role Power[/header][header]Target[/header][/row]
[row][cell]Safety Dance[/cell][cell]Electric Company[/cell][cell]Tracker[/cell][cell]Mehdi[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Cheery Dog[/cell][cell]Waterworks[/cell][cell]Tracker[/cell][cell]Mhork[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Safety Dance[/cell][cell]Mediterranean Avenue[/cell][cell]Watcher[/cell][cell]Jake[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Jake[/cell][cell]Baltic Avenue[/cell][cell]Watcher[/cell][cell]Safety Dance[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Jal[/cell][cell]Park Place[/cell][cell]Vig[/cell][cell]Xis[/cell][/row]
[row][cell]Whoever gets Monkey's boardwalk[/cell][cell]Boardwalk[/cell][cell]Vig[/cell][cell]Guille[/cell][/row][/table]

[Mehdi2277]

That was a table for night 2 action targets. At the same time this plan does have one main weakness which is whether monkey has the RB power or his partner does. If his partner does one of the trackers/watchers is likely to be role blocked.

[Mehdi2277]

Tbg there's no point hiding who trackers target if we only have one mafia alive. If there's one mafia alive trackers work like cops. Directed trackers can work out fine (and did pretty awesomely in detective mafia).

I'd rather keep both watchers alive with the same person then keep jal + try to keep other vig alive. Not sure how you see keeping the vigs alive is more important then the watchers.

And plans can only be created if people bother to write them. Past experience shows it's a lot easier to write one myself and have people argue it then wait for someone else to.

[Mehdi2277]

Safety's attitude claim wise makes him suck as a shot. Cheery similarly but less so. I think just removing guille and monkey has a good chance of ending the game. Jake one of his things involve how he replaced back in wanting to play which just sounds like he's town (well some people love scum a lot in the day phase too, but generally wanting to play right after a hospital thing I'd consider a town tell).

It could be possible, but the problem with that is lack of cc so the card belonging to monkey is true at least.

He said permanent to mean he can shoot each night while alive.

[Mehdi2277]

Another option is both vigs shoot guille if we want to use the vigs on same person idea.

[Mehdi2277]

Why not shoot people in the monkey is scum table? There's enough power role stuff to clear enough people that speeding things up a bit won't hurt.

As for the second paragraph I already commented on the RB stuff last page.

I'm not against the tables as much beyond my death except having both trackers target the same person is bad so at the least you should have one of the two trackers be given a choice of 2 people to target and the other can target anyone not in those 2 or dying.

[Mehdi2277]

The chances of guille getting it is 1/9 and shouldn't be over thought on for the monkey is town. Him not shooting is doable.

[Mehdi2277]

Safety some powers become useless if claimed. I think I've already said that. Basically for your curiosity you want me to weaken my role.

And it's bad to look at an old pm to make sure I've conveying it right? Since good luck telling me what chance and chest cards you've gotten without checking.

You can argue not caring as a scum tell but apathy =/= scum. And his comment on me sketchy had nothing to do with your role stuff so yes different reasons can make different conclusions.

And you're assuming no cc exist when the more obvious thing is just repeated roles.

[Mehdi2277]

K you remember all of them. I don't as much. There's no reason to memorize things that you can look at whenever.

I'm saying another copy of those powers can exist in town's hands just that we never tried to fully claim everything and don't currently need to.

[Mehdi2277]

Tracking me clears me if I'm seen not targeting anyone who dies. Tracking with only one scum alive has the same power as a cop.

[Mehdi2277]

I was checking the type of card. The difference between chance and chest cards is minimal.

And I'd only claim with a hammer intent. Nothing less.

[Mehdi2277]

Guille what do you think of jake's replace out and replace in reason? Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it? A lot of the tbg town read is similar thoughts on what to do and reads. As for reads safety > jal > tbg > cheery > jake > mhork > xis > guille > monkey. Guille you're following monkey on something when he himself rarely explains his reads and has been vague on everything.

I think nothing of it. No reason for it to be a lie and it is no indication of alignment. Why ask this? Nobody questioned this till now.

Fine I see your reads.

"Or how he'd tried to connect his role to things without claiming it?" I missed this. When did this happen?

I am not following Monkey on anything. That we have converged on the same conclusions is coincidental. There are things in monkey's play that makes me think that he is town. Primarily his consistency and his writing that makes me think that the way he presented himself at entry into this game as genuine. I could be wrong though, and he has done some things that make him scummy. Primarily his appeal to emotion, appeal to fear and some reasons for voting that I find unsubstantiated. If he is scum, then Madhi and Jake are likely to be town. And that's something that I am having a hard time to swallow.

Since I think it's a town tell to just want to replace back in after an operation. As for connect the role to things he never once claimed watcher to my knowledge, but has hinted it for a while now.

[Mehdi2277]

Guille got lurker's other card at night I believe.

[Mehdi2277]

To continue it only one death points to scum not getting monkey's card (or at least they're pretending to be a new town vig) and a decision on number of scum matters on whether trackers are great or not very helpful right now. 2 mafia + 1 sk as the only scum is only common in set ups with fairly low town power for a 13p and I'm not sure whether we get lucky with town getting a lot of good cards or that was just average luck (although one tracker did belong to scum at start).

Vote wise I'm a bit less interested in guille only since if he's last mafia then he likely thought monkey would flip town and his last posts of yesterday seemed ok with dying. Scum faking that isn't new so he's still ranks low if not as obviously to me as before.

[Mehdi2277]

I can't currently tell one way or the other.

[Mehdi2277]

It can give info to me, but it hasn't. I think that's safe enough to say (and personally I'd rather mass claim and go from there considering the chance of 1 scum making this easy to break through).

[Mehdi2277]

If it's two scum then while it's not as easy it can clear someone from being the scum who night killed and with the amount of tracking/watching narrowing things down some to likely shooters isn't impossible (well combined with who wouldn't shoot and believable claims).

[Mehdi2277]

result?

[Mehdi2277]

And xis can you explain your vote on me. I don't see where it follows from what you said yesterday so what did change?

[Mehdi2277]

Considering jal was being watched and cheery is risky depending on whether or not safety chose the scum or town I think tbg was the only kill really left (what's left is jake, mhork, guille, and me which has a whole has less trust then tbg did although jake could have arguably been a good kill too).

[Mehdi2277]

And cheery did not. He chose to track mhork which would have been the town track plan.

Xis here's the list of kill targets (basically anyone that doesn't have a chance of being watched) and tell me who each non clear person would shoot?

tbg
mhork
xis
mhork
mehdi
guille
jake

[Mehdi2277]

That tbg is the best kill to most people since he gave it as a reason to part of his vote on me.

[Mehdi2277]

I thought tbg was the more obvious kill just for not really being suspected by anyone.

And it doesn't really matter why watch a scum read when all watcher targets were pre-planned in those tables.

[Mehdi2277]

You listed the one reason I didn't expect jake to die (beyond looking town and not watched is a good enough reason to shoot elsewhere): safety suspected him. With 8 people and 1/2 scum alive having people that can be mislynched alive becomes a fairly big priority.

[Mehdi2277]

I find interesting you still suspect cheery so much.

And safety suspecting him vs I don't think anyone suspected tbg is a difference.

Anyways my scum reads don't magically change a ton. I'm leaning towards the game only having one scum which would clear mhork as well and leave xis or guille with the latter being the one I suspect more. At the very least mhork didn't night kill so for the sake of following actions some it'd be better to not lynch him until one other scum flips and consider him if the game hasn't ended then.

[Mehdi2277]

He didn't push it once really (I didn't even remember he suspected him and outside of that not sure where it's mentioned).

[Mehdi2277]

When a person asks a question to the mod unless it can't be answered it's likely to get an answer.

Anyways following the plan and doing what helps aren't always the same. The mafia plan was made on the idea of 1 mafia left and clear everyone. SK dying didn't meet that desire so cheery going with just track who he thinks might make a kill when it isn't sure that there isn't any mafia left wasn't a bad choice.

Would you rather I claim first or xis?

[Mehdi2277]

K you can connect this to all hints dropped of it (and the soft claim refers to me saying day 1 that there could be another watcher who didn't want to claim as well). 50 percent self watcher from the two orange cards. Any action that targets me I have a 50 percent chance of being told that person who did it targeted me.

[Mehdi2277]

That's a full claim.

Tbg role spec probably won't help considering the nature of the role (and I think people said to not cc even if you were a watcher). Multiple people with the same role when it's 1 shot is something I find believable.

I think so since my power has an obvious way to get upgraded (in fact lurkers one card Mediterranean power is more useful then my two oranges together).

Well my role becomes useless if claimed so I'm not speaking in hints simply to confuse you.

And as for the multiple trackers based on role knowledge that's not the only pr we have multiple of.

etc

[Mehdi2277]

And if the useless isn't clear my role is only useful when people target me sometimes. If people don't target me I'm basically vanilla.

[Mehdi2277]

I know. I also didn't find out either day.

[Mehdi2277]

50 percent

self watcher

Ergo all actions targeted at me I only have a 50 percent chance of finding out that person targeted me.

[Mehdi2277]

The town plan had him targeting whoever he wanted and it becomes a bit weaker if he revealed so likely not.

[Mehdi2277]

I assumed he didn't say since it wouldn't be needed if the plan they told him to do involved him picking personally. I can answer him since I don't think he's scum so I don't think it hurts.

[Mehdi2277]

I assumed he didn't say since it wouldn't be needed if the plan they told him to do involved him picking personally. I can answer him since I don't think he's scum so I don't think it hurts.

No, what you're doing is being a crappy anti-town player that doesn't let someone speak for themselves. Letting someone give their own information, can give town potentially more info and insight into a player's alignment they might not have given otherwise (intentional or not).

P-edit: I have powers concerning

light

green and railroads.

I've heard the argument and I do realize the effect of what I'm doing. At the same I do have a town read on cheery and at this point the loss of info isn't something I have a problem with when it comes to reading someone I already have a town read on.

[Mehdi2277]

And no it wouldn't hurt, but it wouldn't really help much.

[Mehdi2277]

I wasn't honestly sure where some players would go so it wasn't as clear cut (I'd have avoided watcher targets for both routes).

Safety you are keeping tracker of mhork was tracked to not tbg? So he's clear of the scum who night killed which with either 1 or 2 scum it's better to treat him as clear until the other scum dies. Neither tracker/watcher/mhork/jal are really options at the moment so it's a simple me, xis, or guille choice.

[Mehdi2277]

I already think they are so it works. It's also preferable to not lynch trackers at the moment and the only watcher non tracker is jake which if you thought he'd have been killed is a town read too.

[Mehdi2277]

Jal do you want to suspect any of the trackers/watchers? If not what's the need to question this?

[Mehdi2277]

Jal you could read the post yourself. I've been right to place monkey as the bottom all of day 2 and was wrong on lurker when you chose to lay off him awhile, you were off on un more consistently, I was off on spice more (although you had the scum read earlier so arguably equal), your scum reads aren't really clear since I'm honestly not sure which of safety, cheery, or jake you actually really suspect, do you want to continue this argument?

[Mehdi2277]

Have you ever seen a deed counter role? And how useful has it been? It pretty much matches everything I've hinted to since the start so either I planned to fake it from the start or it's real and is null for owning and I have a feeling the other orange holder either has no power from orange or some weak self watcher thing too.

[Mehdi2277]

And there's only a few colors left and considering we have two watchers + a self watcher I don't think we have a 4th.

[Mehdi2277]

My doc protection was the guy who died the next night and being a general town read is enough to want to keep him alive. How was I supposed to be more clear with stuff I know there's multiple of the same pr not yet mentioned (that can really only be thought of as me claiming a role that's been claimed) or saying other watchers could exist before we got info on them. A role that becomes useless when claimed is fairly rare so fits that too.

[Mehdi2277]

For balance sake my role's really null without good usage since so far it's told me absolutely nothing. I'm guessing 3 oranges = 100 percent self watcher, but for now 50 percent with my luck (or rb if I was last night too) hasn't helped much.

[Mehdi2277]

Looking back you didn't call him scum just was annoyed by him.

It's not clear when you've never really said once directly he's a main suspect of mine or something or why exactly you are questioning him beyond not thinking of him as a town read like me.

[Mehdi2277]

And the post is I find it interesting. Is your opinion on him based mainly on SC?

[Mehdi2277]

You realize your not putting it much clearer. I have an on going suspicion of which actions unless you want to just mean in general all. The point of this is the read isn't clear and that's what I'm asking on unless it's bad to want you to clarify your thoughts on a scum read.

I didn't think jal would die n1. She didn't. I thought tbg would die. He gets shot the next night. Is it my job to protect people you think need protecting or just who I personally think is most likely to be killed?

The bread crumbs can't really be clearer when I had to argue it with safety a bit on me claiming isn't good with neutralizing the role.

I did defend lurker. I thought he was town. I gave my reasons why back then as well so if you think it was bad you could have argued it then. Yes they were wrong, but the lurker point the way you have it is it's scummy to be wrong about someone.

[Mehdi2277]

A. She was too obvious of a kill to occur.
B. I think your underestimating tbg looking town is enough of a reason for him to be killed. He is dead now. Back in day 1 how much suspicion did he have? Not much more then day 2.

[Mehdi2277]

VOTE: Guille to me it's really a decision between xis and guille and of the two I simply trust guille less.

[Mehdi2277]

What are they? Is there a scum team with them telling the truth and me as town?

[Mehdi2277]

And for n1 I'd be the one role blocked so the question only has a gain if you're sure I'm scum.

[Mehdi2277]

They'd be telling the truth if I was role blocked (which with my role isn't confirmable). It's personally the case I believe and I wouldn't want them lynched if I ever am dead.

[Mehdi2277]

It doesn't. This was confirmed when jake asked the same question.

Is the neighborhood a day one as well?

And mod saying they were random is pretty much pure mod confirmation it's the case.

Continuing xis's investigation only helps with his own alignment since he has no real motivation to fake it nor does he have one as scum to be a cop that'd check jal.

[Mehdi2277]

And guille can you show yourself being really calm as town when faced with pressure similar to being told you'll be killed? I know you were calm as scum in marketplace mafia under similar, but town meta for how it's null and not scummy?

[Mehdi2277]

And how much of the read's here were actually neighborhood influenced more then they appear to be?

[Mehdi2277]

I'm asking for the neighborhood not the scum qt. Admittingly it's mostly my mistake in misreading 1925 to thinking guille gave out reads under pressure, but still something I'm curious on.

[Mehdi2277]

In reference to the neighborhood already has night talk is what the as well referred to.

[Mehdi2277]

Admittingly it's mostly my mistake in misreading 1925 to thinking guille gave out reads under pressure, but still something I'm curious on.

Think that responds to that.

[Mehdi2277]

Just as much as insane trackers is a thing. Since it's that or he was redirected by the sounds of it. Second seems more likely and that could cover the lack of RB (safety redirected to anyone who didn't take an action n1 covers my action trouble).

[Mehdi2277]

But yeah that's the second tracker report where the person tracked is saying something is wrong. Ignoring the me/safety + cheery/mhork scum possibility by 1 vs 1 stuff this pretty much confirms there's a role that can mess up tracker reports (and me + mhork isn't possible either so me + cheery or safety + mhork are the only choices that let the 1 vs 1 work).

[Mehdi2277]

That's covered in 1 vs 1 stuff.